#2340 - Charley Crockett

26:12Ha ha Then that's a shout out to my friend John Reeves from the bone yard in Alaska I got a buddy of mine who has this spot in Alaska where they just pull all kinds of crazy mastodon woolly mammoth Fucking cave bear all kinds of skulls all kinds of wild shit out of this one piece of property Where a lot of animals died and he's taking a lot of the woolly mammoth. That's where I got this too. This is a tooth This is a tooth that was carved wow into a piece of art with a mammoth in it. That's a big old goddamn tooth, huh? Imagine yeah, how heavy that is That's crazy, right? It's beautiful too, man.

26:50Yeah, so that that guitar pick is yours brother. Man. Thanks Joe I could guys would play guitar give him one of them picks. Well, you know, I'd never been good at holding it holding a pig So I learned how to play with my hands and I because I could never hold a pick well But some of the lot of guys I know that are really great Pickers they play these really hard picks You know and can real precise with them When I just I still can't hold them you see learned with your fingers. Yeah Yeah, I never never held I just couldn't hold a pick. I would try to hold it and it gets sideways And I never like all this you know like the straight cowboy chords, you know CFG Whatever I couldn't hold any of those chords like when I was teaching myself The positioning was weird for me, you know, and so like I kind of threw away the book and I Did what you called choking the chicken on the on the fret, you know kind of hold it like you're choking the chicken Mm -hmm And that's kind of where I develop my style and then I learned all the regular chords many years later You know, did you is are you totally self -taught?

27:54Oh, yeah, wow. When did you start? um I was 17 my mama got me a guitar out of a pawn shop and south Irving Wow, it's owner guitar and you just started messing around with it Yeah, yeah, you know my mama tried to give me on the piano when I was younger and I just couldn't focus and um Yeah, I don't know 17 was like the right age. I needed it, you know Sorry banging around on that guitar and I mean it must have sounded terrible and and we met my mom and my mama lived in this little ass place this tiny place And I didn't I was like scared to play in front of her, you know But it but I was at first and I would say mama mindy good You know, she wasn't gonna lie to me and she said Well, son When you play people will believe you she wasn't gonna lie to me and tell me I was good But she was trying to say you know just be honest with your music and the rest will take care of it That's a good advice.

28:57Yeah, when you play people will believe you that's what she said. Yeah, yeah Yeah, and then the next time anybody believed in me Wasn't till I started hitchhiking and I remember because I've been out in California bunch recently and it was I Had caught a ride with this guy We were playing at this place called the shanty up in Farmer's branch and Dallas Fort Worth areas years ago And there was this witch lady that I mean they called her a witch just kind of um Kind of magic woman who had a barn out behind her house and they called it the shanty And she would have people over on the weekends and just kind of any random night travelers misfits whatever back there in the barn and everybody to be Telling stories and trading songs and you know taking potions Stuff like that Long story short this guy I met one night his parents had like worked they worked for like Texas instruments and he had disowned them, you know because His parents were like scientists and he woke up one day as a young man and realized they were like His parents were manufacturing like weapons, you know, and I don't never to saw this guy again But that was his old deal why he left Texas.

30:13Oh wow and he was just back visiting this this guy that had this shanty deal and I Talked that guy that he promised he would he was describing this town of Boonville Which is this community in Midasino County Northern California and The way he was describing it to me at this in this barn or whatever it sounded like a Garden a eaten or something, you know what I mean? Yeah, and and I wanted so badly to go with him and he promised me and this other guy that was playing guitar too that he would take us And we passed out at the ladies house We woke up that next morning. He was still there and I was like man you ready to go to California and he was like, what are you talking about?

30:58What are you talking about like when I pressed me? He's like man, I was on acid I was on acid. I don't remember any of that. I don't have any room for you And I begged that I begged him like my life depended on it and he took me in this old boy who was playing guitar Actually taught me a lot of songs back then he took us to California But as we got closer to Boonville and we were talking to naive young Texas boys Who had never been anywhere he realized he you know didn't want us going anywhere near those hippies He was living with there in Boonville So he left us like he pulled into like a grocery store and left us in this parking lot in back of bill And that's when I really started hitchhiking in my life is like when we kind of got abandoned in a parking lot Kind of along the five right?

31:4621 Pi 22 something like that and I had done some hit a little bit of hitching before like around the south Texas and like Louisiana, but I'd never really been way out there and Anyway, I started hitchhiking around Because I had to But I remember it was in California the first time about anybody besides my mama I Ever looked at me playing guitar as it having any kind of value you know like any economic value or like it was a it was a A trade of you know recognition, you know, it was kind of the was the first time was out there out there So you'd been playing about four four or five years back then?

32:31Yeah Yeah, I was playing outside because our place was so small I wasn't playing outside to like make money or anything like that. I would go to this park Have like a baseball diamond on it sit on these bleachers or whatever and I'll never forget The first time anybody through like just a pocket full of change in my case. I'm sure it's because they You know were worried about me and felt bad for me. Yeah What or whatever, you know, and it wasn't like that it wasn't like that money hit the case And then I got a light one off or anything, you know It was a slow It was a slow gradual deal like I was playing outside Because there was you know, there wasn't enough room to play in the house or whatever, you know, and then you know I got in a lot of trouble with the law um Which kind of put me on the run put me on the road and What was the trouble with the law Uh You know You know my I've said it a lot and it's funny.

33:35I'm a lot better known than I used to be so it's like you say stuff about your family and They hear about it and they get mad. Yeah, but uh, that's so funny because it's all over the internet and uh They're the ones that had the government on their ass. Not me But anyways, yeah, we just kind of you know shit hit the fan got up in the newspapers My brother didn't go to high school. You know neither my sister neither went to high school They both dropped out, you know, because I'm from South Texas. I born the Rio Grande Valley. They were born up in Dallas But my mama had moved down there to South Padre Island area McAllen Harlingen area there and Anyway, it's poor and pretty hard living down there and You know hell I didn't wear shoes till I was by nine or ten years old, you know playing outside and my brother and sister They're ten years older than me half brother and sister and uh, we have different daddies and uh, they really lived wild, you know, it was things were pretty Pretty tough back then or whatever.

34:32I'm telling you that background because My brother became a hustler You know because he had to because of a lack of education lack of asset, you know because of poverty Um, and I've honestly always respected him for that, you know He took he's to take me around door to door selling newspapers when I was eleven Right and you want to know why? Because I had broken my arm and he realized if you carted that young boy out in front of those peat those apartments when that lady answered the door And it's these two brothers and one of them's got a broken arm. She's going by the she's gonna go ahead and subscribe Yeah, she knows bad.

35:11Yeah, and in a nutshell man, he You know through all that stuff, you know, he he started out as door to door salesman You know hustling newspaper subscriptions, right Then he started like selling Neck ties and like men's clothing door to door and downtown Dallas office buildings You know and as a very young man and eventually he graduated to You know hard -knock boiler room type of guys, you know, you keep knocking on those Doors and that wild west business scene of towns like Dallas You know, we're Houston, you know Eventually, you're gonna find what you're looking for and he got in with some big old wolves You know and eventually it it knocked everybody out and a lot of people died a lot of people went to prison and You know, we were in the paper and I Couldn't all I found myself not being able to get a bank accountant nobody I knew would go near me, you know and Um, so it ended up being like a Bob Marley type of thing, you know like you know, he said uh if you're not living good travel -wide Mm -hmm, right and I literally just walked out of town because You know, we had scarlet letters on our chest and that's when I that's when I really started learning how to stand behind that guitar and write songs and Slowly, but surely start I learned how to play basically in front of people and people just were giving me money kind of Over time that and you know food and shelter and exchange for my story at their backdoor This episode is brought to you by Netflix.

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37:35I'm surprised. I'm you know what? I'm surprised by I'm surprised I never got heavily addicted to drugs. Yeah, I am you know is my my sister passed away 10 years ago from substances and hard living and all that kind of stuff and Hell my whole family's an a everybody top to bottom left to right Turnemans that out I think about it a lot, but I really do you know, and I remember I was living with that guy Who was at the shanty that was playing guitar? He's on the football team. I knew him from sports name his name was Daniel Harmon And he went out there to California with me that first time And we were living on farms and I was working for gonger farmers Working on horse farms working for got a Wine makers all kind of people, you know, just just doing grunt work for them doing the fence work They they didn't want to do moving soil for people, you know, I mean digging ditches, you know Lamp pipe across really hard, you know rocky roads Not anything anybody can do is need you know broad back in them, you know to be young right and But before I ever left Texas I Moved in with his his sister and I remember And she's just my friend.

38:51I was never in a relationship with her anything But she was working at Silver City in West Dallas the gentleman's club at 18 And making more money than anybody I'd ever seen The girl was 18, you know and just making crazy crazy money and I was living she let me rent a room from her and Kind of gave me a deal and all that and I ended up writing a song kind of about it more recently called easy money that I did with shooter on the I'm a lunchroom rifter record And that's kind of that thing, you know if you're poor kid from Texas, there's no such thing, you know as easy money, but um Not I can't remember why I's telling you that but um It was hard on I just remember like seeing you'd see like young women working in strip clubs making big money and The ones that I have was around and have been around Very very hard for that line of work My line of work your line of work not to become addicted.

39:56Yeah, you know And I don't have a problem with you know a lot of the best Especially at most best artists ever saw yet struggled struggled with addiction, you know But I have in that way I have been very fortunate very very fortunate. How did you avoid it? I don't know I you know what it is man. I never had no kind of record no had had no kind of tolerance You know, I've always been like I guess to get drunk off of one drink It's never changed Well, just felt it all like really strong, you know, that's probably good. Yeah Maybe it's a survival instinct too. I'm never really thought about why you know, but I have Considered it because my brother's been through you know, he he did a lot of time in prison and You know my My sister had And my mama, you know, I mean they both had their first kid, you know, and they were teenagers, you know hmm Um a lot of it I do credit to my mama.

40:53You know, it's like you know, she told me something I remember that stuck with me. I've been saying this all the time Joe And like we had a lot of trouble in our family and a lot of people that we knew a lot of dysfunction a lot of trauma um But well my mama kind of got out of that she kind of is the person in the family That said I'm going to change the trajectory of this line and now in my generation You know, and she didn't have an education and um You know, she took herself back to school after I was born um You know and cleaned up her act and and and and got out of it and and I saluted me from a lot of that shit and Which I think is a big part of the reason that I maybe didn't Right, you had a role model.

41:44Yeah, I had a role model. Yeah, you know, I didn't there was no male role models at least not at home They were only they were only pro athletes and coaches at school, you know, I mean, it's increasingly difficult for young men to find Strong men of courage and vision that can help them grow into good men too. I mean, it's a it's almost it seems almost impossible these days It's unbelievable. It's very difficult to find your personal life. It's hard man Find it in other ways you have to find it people online or I found it in the world athletes in in um like Like excellence in like athletics, right?

42:28You know Where the only way you can get there is hard work. Yeah, and odds are stacked against you Yeah, it requires incredible focus. I mean, I just I think that's why I'm always So you know in such awe of those people when they're able to um succeed like that, but what I wanted to say to you that my mama said she said What happened to you and you were young It's not your fault But now you're a man and it's your responsibility And I've been living I've been living off of that You know for a long time, you know, because it's like if you don't take responsibility at some point man It'll it'll never leave you alone, right?

43:11You can't think that you're a victim Yeah, you can't think that it's not your fault. You got to take responsibility That's hard for people to accept when they know they've been victimized. Yeah, when they know they've been dealt a shitty hand of cards You can just kind of wallow in it But that's a trap That's a trap that'll fuck you up It'll fuck up everybody around you too damn right. Yeah, but it's a mindset thing It's like you can you can think your way out of that you just you have to have an example though Either you have to be your own example. Oh, you have to find a fine an example if someone else had thought their way out of it And for my brother, you know for my brother for all the trouble that he's been in You know In a way like, you know, he I think he was trying to He also was trying to help me, you know, and so you know his hustle and his work ethic in another sense, you know was That's been helpful to me too, you know, because I remember he used to hand out flyers and shit all over the place And when I'd be like a teenager, he'd be like He'd be like listen to me now If you go if you leave an event at the other day that you're handing out flyers and you're flooding it with promotion If you can even see that pavement Underneath the you know pamphlets that you're handing out you didn't promote it So what he's telling me I was like 1516 and that all has come that mentality Came in handy for me because you know, I was just a street performer just an itinerant performer and um You know, I did have to learn how to market myself, you know, and and um Part of the reason that I was man sometimes being underestimated is like the best thing that could happen to you, you know because I think one of the biggest challenges for like in the music industry at least is that the way the business works now is They're almost exclusively You know you've ever seen money ball Brad Pitt flick money ball.

45:11Yeah, right. Yeah, how they you know they introduced that concept of looking at the data to like maximize the Potential of the athletes and all kind of stuff which has totally changed the game, you know all the games I kind of call it money guitar right which is like you know the business is seeding the young amateur and For the way that they spend and invest and can Move on if it doesn't work out. It's like kind of a you know It's kind of a pump and dump, you know and The thing about that in it works like if somebody has a you know if somebody Like some of these guys you can mention Oliver Anthony and some of these guys they have a viral hit Out of nowhere.

45:58They've never played a venue or anything in their life you know um It can happen really fast and then obviously there's tremendous challenges You know down the line trying to keep that You know astronomical you know quick rise up there um, but back in the day The business deals weren't any good. You know that they were terrible right what they were good about though In a lot of cases was developing these artists on these rosters even if they were taking advantage of these poor farmboys Taking advantage, you know of you know poor black artists From the south or women or whatever nobody was getting a good deal basically but you know like guys like Willie Nelson in Whalen Jennings those guys were making two three records a year Wow, you know and you think about when Whalen breaks through right in the mid 70s, you know and like As he's doing you know coming into his own And seven 1974 and 1975 I mean, how many records in is he at that point?

47:06You know he's yeah, how many I mean, you know will he's read at its stranger which Revolutionized country music or like the outlaws compilation record that the two of them were on together Which was basically a compilation and kind of marketed as the outlaw of subgenre You know those guys were 15 Those guys were 15 16 17 records in you know a wreath a wreath of Franklin popped off on her 9th or 10th record Wow, you know and these most of these Artists the way the business works. They won't make 9 or 10 records in their career. Right. That's crazy to me That is crazy and what better way to develop than to just keep constantly producing new music and learn along the way and in being neglected or Misunderstood by their business when I was first dealing with it.

47:58That was the it was a really a really a blessing Because I ended up making so many records, you know, yeah This episode is brought to you by life lock sometimes it's good to be a little controlling It can help you protect yourself your health your well -being and your possessions There's only so much you can do though Especially when it comes to your personal info you probably use things like two factor authentications strong passwords and a VPN But as much as you try to be in control of how your information is protected There are lots of places that also have it and they might not be as careful as you are that's why Life lock monitors millions of data points every second for identity threats If your identity is stolen a life lock US -based restoration specialist will help solve identity theft issues on your behalf guaranteed or your money back plus all life lock plans are backed by the million dollar protection package Meaning life lock will reimburse you up to the limits of your plan if you lose money due to identity theft You might not be able to control how others handle your personal information, but you can help protect it with life lock Save up to 40 % your first year call 1 -800 life lock and use the promo code JRE or go to life lock .com slash JRE for 40 % off terms apply This episode is brought to you by uber eats summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with uber eats What do I mean by almost well?

49:38Can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken Parmesan delivered a day in the sun No a bottle of rum. Yes uber eats can definitely get you that for almost almost anything delivered with uber eats order now For alcohol you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly product availability varies by region see app for details The music business has always been so predatory But it's it's like It's the where I describe a lot of things It's like when you get something that's good combined with a bunch of people that want to make money off that sometimes good you know whether it's Medicine or whether it's music or even in comedy you get the same thing you get a bunch of people that just think they can make money off you Man always thought comedy was the hardest Always figured it was the hardest Right because you mean like you got to make them laugh.

50:33They're gonna fucking kill you and you have new shit All the time there's nothing but there's nothing behind you. You mean there's not even a guitar covering you up Right this crazy to me just to watch all those guys do their bit and shit so like I was always amazed by a even A -tip people going up at like the open mics and like trying out the routine, you know that always terrified me It terrifies me still when I watch open mics. I watch open mics. I watch someone bombing. I gotta leave the room I want I fear that it's contagious Like if I if I was on the road and I didn't get to pick my opening acts like if I was working in a club And they had some local act in Florida something like that and the guy was fucking terrible I would literally have to like not listen I'd have to leave the room and just sort of time when I was gonna go on stage so I'd go on stage with a fresh mindset I couldn't think that this audience had been poisoned by this guy's shitty comedy.

51:28I get that You know what I mean? It's like yeah, it's it's terrible and it's like you you think that nothing could be funny Yeah, he just said it's like this like he's hypnotized them right into this like mediocre state of mind like I can't listen I gotta hide. Yeah, and it's crazy that they could have that That strong and effect on the audience like that that quick. I mean somebody can be up there fucking it up like crazy musically, yeah, and you kind of get a pass, you know, right? You know poetic license or whatever Well, you know people it's tolerable if the guys into it, you know He could be into his own music and you're like I'm not into it, but he's into it At least he's like doing his song if you're not into if you're doing comedy and the audience is not into it You're fucked.

52:13You're like really fuck you have to engage those people. Yeah, I see that it's unbelievable You gotta be connected to those people and you can't fake it Like you can't even be saying the words perfectly and not be thinking about it You have to be thinking about what you're saying they know they're little animals. They smell you They know they know if you're faking it And you just gotta lock in man And you're gonna learn how to lock in and it takes about 10 years It takes 10 years of eating shit Yeah fucking bombing and traveling around and opening up for people. Yeah, and barely getting by That's the same thing with music though about the 10 -year deal, you know the 10 ,000 -hour thing There's no doubt about it.

52:54I think it's probably almost everything Yeah, almost everything anything you dedicate yourself to you know You like known chomsky. Yeah, sure you ever see old known chomsky. Yeah, yeah, listen to him today I'm like Jesus stop talking. Yeah, he's popping off. Inley Well, he just went the COVID vaccine stuff. He was out of his fucking mind He just wanted people to be isolated and quarantined and taken away from society We're willing to take this fucking experimental shit. I haven't kept up with him in recent years He's old right and old people Unfortunately also he's an academic so academics tend to trust experts in whatever field they're in and if he doesn't have it Understand like he has a deep understanding of how Compromised people are politically by money, you know, and he's written some brilliant work on essentially the way the The media is compromised and the way you know politics are compromised.

53:51I don't think he applied that same skepticism towards the pharmaceutical industrial complex Which is strange. Well people have their blind spots. Yeah, we don't really all do and they trust experts And if you you know these kind of experts that are academics and you trust them and And also he's old and old people get real scared of diseases They get real scared because they know how fucking vulnerable they are All the people that I knew that were old had the craziest reaction to COVID Terrified even my own parents tried to you know talk them through some of this stuff. They didn't want to hear it They only wanted to listen to doctors.

54:24They want Like I don't think this is what they're telling you. Yeah, you know doctors are crazy. They're just They got a Cabinet full of pills that they've been They've been sold to Sell you and they're incentivized. That's it's really crazy when I found that out That mean I learned so much during the pandemic about the medical industry where I just thought they were there to I didn't even I'm so naive. I didn't even realize that Hospitals are privately owned. I thought these were things set up by the government to make sure that people can get healed Right, you know, I thought it was all about making people better and it's not public the closest thing to public As if they're owned by like a you know religious organization right church.

55:10Yeah, that's crazy It's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy and they just fucking shuffling people in and out Trying to prescribe them as many things and they're financially incentivized to prescribe things And then they have extreme overhead because they have liability insurance Yeah, have student loan debt and they have you know a high overhead to keep their practice running and Where's Bernie Sanders when you need him? Yeah, well no see so I had I had open heart surgery right here in Austin Well to fix it What was wrong with your heart valve here? Well, I was born with Wolf Parkinson's white disease. It's a it's an electrical issue Um in your heart basically like Your heart missed fires All this electricity is moving through it.

55:56Mm -hmm all the time You know like a semiconductor whatever and there was like a section of it that was like Miss firing and it would cause my an arrhythmia with me Wow And when I was a kid in South Texas we were told that was all I knew about and we were told that it was an annoyance Because I almost died a couple times and I was really really young from it and you know my mama noticed and saved my life a couple times by getting driving and you know Into the city there in the San Benito and then hooking me up to all the wires and saving me Anyways, they told me as I got older that it would just um I could get new to a blade an ablation for it where they apply heat basically and close this electrical Channel that's stuck in a loop or whatever um But it what it wasn't life threatening And then I got out here, you know, I was on the street for years And then when I was coming off the street Through kind of blues jams and I had been you know, I was working on Gondra Farms and it started selling you know Weed in the mail and all that to kind of get off street by myself some better clothes Give myself a good guitar and amping all that started showing up at blues jams and then I could like You know because everything takes money, you know like Probably being a street player was you can go play the open mics that have a 2 damn drink minimum And they'd see my crazy ass coming in and knew that I was You know pretty wild and they didn't have any money and it didn't smell and I didn't smell good So they really didn't like me for the you know for the longest time or whatever, but I threw blues jams.

57:34I started leading bands and bars deep LM first gig I ever got in Austin was right there at darwin's pub You know on six street playing kind of solo in the afternoon. It was the only guy. CJ was the only guy to give me a gig even on six street Always owed him for that and I mean he's giving me 50 bucks You know, he wanted me to get paid out of the well whiskey and those those He's selling over there those Gears or Whatever the hell he's got over there. Um anyway, I get on the road. I get an agent. I had I was I was standing out of green hall Hand in CDs out on a street corner because I couldn't get into the show Hand in a guy's CD His name Evan felker.

58:15He I didn't know who he was at the time, but he's frontman for turnpike troubadours um, I gave my CD and uh he uh Well, he took it home and he listened to it with his then girlfriend and now wife and Loan behold his agent John folk called me up and started booking me And then that's when I started playing the old uh red dirt I like to call it the Hank Williams circuit, you know the kind of old country chitlin circuit John folk had kind of inherited it inherited it from like a buddy Lee attractions from an earlier generation They goes all the way back to Lucky Molar in that old south circuit That all the r and b in the in the hillbilly country boys were on and and folk kind of inherited and rebuilt it And then they you know then co -compepsy came in, you know c a a and uh William Morris and waserman and bought it all off, you know, bought it all out and You had no choice and they were going to part it out no matter what and that's the way that it works right when you get coca -cola's attention right And they show up and they're like good job You're taking some of our money away from us.

59:22We're going buy you out, son And yet right I think you can refuse them once or twice and they'll come back with a better deal right After that if you keep turning them down then they put all their energy into knocking you out, you know, yeah That's what I mean as long as coke doesn't change the flavor of coca -cola right they can You know that gangster shit all the other gangster shit they do works really well as long as they don't fuck up the original flavor Right, right so I'm on that circuit working my ass off 200 and whatever shows a year for a bunch of years in a row Playing all over the place seems like sometimes we play 21 nights in a row out there You know for shit kickers at bonita creek hall and punk rock clubs and new jersey and shit, you know Playing at the fucking you know saint that little club is saint asbury park It's like a 40 -cap means a badass place anyway um My i was like blacking out.

1:00:16I moved up to a bus and shit and I was like my It was getting really lightheaded and I'd be sitting in the back of the bus and I would be so lighted I'd be blacking out a lot, right? Just sitting there short of breath, but I just thought you know I'm grinding. I'm playing all these shows. I'm going I'm going as hard as you can go take compulsions You know Stealing all this dumb shit working hard and uh, I was playing at the old shady grove here in town That's now closed down. They used to do it was the kgs r Radio's Thing marsha millum put it on or whatever and then it turned into you know acl radio and then shady grove closed down there in Barton Springs or whatever By played it a handful of times first time I played it.

1:01:02There's nobody there Second time I played it. It was packed and I had I had willies old tour bus the red headed stranger It was one of the ones he lost in the irs era that he never got back. Oh wow and this fucking shester Chuck lagging. I remember he some some motherfucker was selling this thing on the side of highway up in Oklahoma The reddit stranger with the murals on it and shit is a beautiful bus somehow this guy gets it Right, I shouldn't call him a shester, but he definitely sheds to me That's a shester then yeah, yeah, you know the music business is crazy because it's so there it is yeah Wow That's the one man.

1:01:41Yeah, that's the one it on the other side it says uh Driven only by the finest bass players Wow, you know because of somebody in the band always drove those old buses. I had that bus I use that bus exclusively for about a year or whatever and we get off the stage At shady grove and my heart had gone out of rhythm I don't just say this I almost died in the back of that bus I end up finding because it won't go here. I am 30 something years old in my early 30s My arithmetic is out It's it's going out and it's getting harder and harder to get back into shock it back into normal rhythm And I just kept ignoring it because somebody told me in South Texas in the 80s not to not to worry about it Anyway, uh, you know, I turned out that my hearted in large and all the shit was going on And I had to get surgery The point long run about point that I'm making to you about medical industry that I learned the hard way man is like no one's advocating for you Only you You have to be your own advocate.

1:02:46They don't give a fuck You know, they don't like they were just gonna automatically put a mechanical valve in my heart right automatically Didn't present any other options anything right Um, and I get there on the American Heart Association Web page or whatever because I have insurance at time or anything nothing, you know um The only reason that they covered me at the time was the affordable care act and I had the right window where they could not deny me Right otherwise. I don't know what I would have done and that is absolutely an imperfect system Right, I just didn't have health insurance So here they are covering me and probably because I don't have money and they're dealing with you know how it is you know American business practices or whatever they're like here's this mechanical valve And I go and look it up Joe and it's like You know um If you have a mechanical valve You automatically are on blood thinner the rest of your life automatically no matter what there's and you can't that's just how it's gonna be uh It lasts Twice as long as a prosthetic valve which I had not heard of at that point But that was the whole thing this can last up to 20 years But guess what you have like 300 % higher risk of a stroke with a mechanical valve as a prosthetic a bowel prosthetic cow valve Um, and then the third thing was that You can hear that thing clicking you can hear the valve yeah Ticking my buddy ever last I was one of those really yeah, he could go like this You can hear it And I was reading about that and man.

1:04:28I'm like neurotic like I knew and like I'll never get over it So that's when I found out about the about the bovine cow valve so it's made out of a cow yeah Edward's scientific makes it I carry a little card around in my wallet with the tag of the You know that product number in case somebody sees me on the fines me on the sidewalk Wow, you know and that was out last They're supposed to last around 10 years and I had mine and uh I had mine done and right there at seatin You know seatin medical there on 38th And January 2019 So we're coming back around to it kind of so you have to get another operation Yeah, but what they did is they put a they put a The way they did it and that here's the thing about right medical and anything right Medical industry is I think Really fucked up and really predatory totally profit driven and like you know People's health and preventative well -being and all that I mean we don't get they don't give it we don't give a fuck about that Right in this country, you know, I mean there's no money to be made off of People look taking care of themselves and eating right and being preventative and like right you know There's there's nothing in that the part about it that is amazing though Even in the like kind of insanity of all the land of cheap traders Is the technological advancements yeah the technological advancements in the medical field though Not really You know available to the common person They are incredible advancements right so it's like They're moving so quickly that by the time I need to get another one I don't think they'll ever have to open me up open again because they can like go in through scope Now they could do it at that time.

1:06:17It was just more experimental and they didn't want to do it They were only doing it on really high -risk older patients You know, but I think it's already kind of gone more mainstream From where when they cut me open to like if I did it right now I could probably get around Cutting it right so they'll going through an artery. Yeah, and then what do they have to do to it? Well, so with me what was happening was is so I had the Wolf Parkinson's white had to get the ablation first to deal to Before I could deal with what it aortic valve disease as what it's called and what it what it basically is is that Over your aorta There's these three valves that sit on the over the top of your aorta that they look like a Mercedes symbols What they look like sick the best example it really looks like a Mercedes symbol and some people It's a bicuspid or whatever some people are born with Two of the three fuse together or just one missing altogether and it turned out that I'm just missing one That's like a leaky carburetor, you know, so like as the time goes that old carburetor and that truck over time Just leaking more and more and more you know and I mean I just got lucky man because I was looking the back of that fucking bus and There was this lady driving us back then that like Was like holding say -onses and burning sage over the top of me while I was like playing the back of that bus Like that was gonna heal me I said it didn't work And she doesn't drive me anymore Get yourself a good bus driver you have to get a good bus driver.

1:07:51You'll never get good sleep Yeah, because you'd be freaking out You'd be thinking one of this person falls asleep. Yeah, there's a lot of especially the late night drives Oh, man, who late night drives a scary that that highway starts hypnotizing you this episode is brought to you by visible I want to let you in on something your current wireless Carrier does not want you to know about visible because visible is the ultimate wireless hack No confusing plans with surprise fees no nonsense just fast speeds great coverage Without the premium cost with visible you get one line wireless with unlimited data Powered by Verizon's network for $25 a month taxes and fees included Seriously 25 dollars a month flat What you see is what you pay no hidden fees on top of that ready to see Join now and unlock unlimited data for just $25 a month on the visible plan Don't think wireless can be so transparent.

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1:09:33There was this guy There's a video going around. He drove us around for a little bit And there was a video passing around the industry this guy called Jimbo There's this bus driver that was like you know, just speed freak And it was like this video at him where he was like on whatever he was on And somebody had recorded him or like they'd put a phone up or something because they knew his nuts and he was like having one of those Fucking like you know, methamphetamine freak out. It's like You know driving the bus down the road and it was getting all passed around the industry And I saw it because like he was driving us at the time I remember we woke up and I remember we woke up Somewhere in New Mexico one morning because we're going on this road all of a sudden And my get up and I go to the front of the bus and he's we're like on some fucking To track You know Kalichi fucking dirt road dirt road that was like behind behind a gate In a bus that bus Right and I get up there and he's licking all crazy in the door handle the inside door handle the bus have been pulled off and shit That's crazy man.

1:10:37We got when we got to the We got back down here in Texas man. I never saw a fool again To Jesus Christ. Well, you got to think if you're driving buses all through the night There's a high likelihood you're on an infatubines. Yeah, it's right likely. Yeah for the business Yeah, it's like probably the best way to stay awake. Oh no doubt about it. Yeah, yeah, and then obviously that shit's very addictive And you need it this band has to get to Cincinnati. Yeah, you got to get to Cincinnati. It's an eight hour drive. There's only one way to do it Drive through the night. That's why all the old performers were all on pills, you know, they were getting prescribed I mean, you know, they were getting prescribed that shit by the doctor.

1:11:16Yeah, you know, oh, yeah Does this give you a Greater appreciation for life the value of life like no one you almost lost it Yeah, oh, yeah Yeah, I don't know I hadn't thought about Immediately after that I just started I just cut started thinking about my mortality You know, I hadn't really thought about it before you know, of course everybody feels invulnerable when you're young. Yeah Especially if you're young and you live you're living that wild, you know, transient moving around No roots when I was in my 20s. I guess I really Looking back now. I was like man, I was young like I thought I could live like that forever.

1:11:58I thought I thought I could live hand in mouth and You know sleeping people's pastures and mm -hmm, you know Do the gentleman hobo thing forever, but you know, I was 26 there's something romantic about that too, right? Yeah I love that I wouldn't take it back man. I mean like you know, I believe that you know um You know, I think mental slavery is something that is real and but So much of it is us Like we do it to ourselves. Mm -hmm, you know, yeah, and so that's what I was gonna say about Chomsky I haven't kept up with them in years But I remember something he said long time ago that stuck with me where he was talking about like American You know consumerism over last hundred years It really kind of illuminated my My kind of mind was He was saying he was like there are people working really really really hard to eliminate Your sense of purpose for the explicit goal of making you a more efficient consumer right?

1:13:20Mm -hmm All human beings live for and desire a a Life of purpose Yeah purpose what doesn't matter what it is something that you can Dedicate yourself to the 10 ,000 hours the 10 years it can be You know anything would making or your buddy with the this ancient tooth that he's carving into this beautiful piece of art or Whatever it is, you know, yeah um I don't know I guess something like a heavy thing, but I kind of realized when I became a transient that a lot of who I was was like this Amalgamation of a bunch of people just trying to fucking sell me products you know 90s radio just Blasting my brain as a kid, right like programming That like it's like the so much Programming is so hard for me to watch because you know that it's only a vehicle for the commercials right?

1:14:32Right, right so whenever I'm watching something And as soon as I think that it's Not that good I can't stop thinking about like well, though. This is just a vehicle for me to fucking you know Think I need that whatever the fuck they're selling yeah, you know, so I Feel like I feel like I feel like I killed like a lot of the false version of me That I was becoming that I I only realized When I walked when I like walked away from crystal city, you know what I mean? And then and then I could um and then I really started becoming you know me That's when I really started becoming me a lot of people are prisoners to that their whole life because the the only value They place is in how much stuff they're able to acquire That's the only value that they see in life They look at numbers on a ledger so they look at numbers in their bank account And they look at the stuff they're willing to acquire or that they're able to acquire right and that's their only measure of success in this life Yeah, you very definition of the word rich has Changed so much over the last you know 100 years, you know, it's kind of moved entirely really really richness wasn't a raw material idea You know, but it what did it used to be?

1:15:59You know richness of life fullness of life right, you know, um fulfillment fulfillment Purpose health health. Yeah, you know community community family. Yeah, yeah, friends Yeah, real life but so many people they They forgo all that they'll throw everything out the window just for the numbers For numbers and they they think they're successful I mean, it's the way that it's being run you know like I mean There's no such thing as a free lunch, you know all this free social media. She ain't free. No You know you give up your attention. You're attention is very very valuable your data privacy Yeah, your privacy the transparent society.

1:16:44Yeah, but man like you know, you're pulling it y 'all pulled up that AI stuff I remember I won't tell you the whole thing, but I was playing on the street in Europe When I was younger I'd met a guy down on the low -ree side It's a Danish jazz singer and he would show up over in the States a couple times a year And he was doing really well there in Denmark and the the state Really sponsors the arts there in a big way and it's a small country High quality of life like he really had it made over there I mean when he was coming over to states to play music It was almost more of a leisure thing for him Benjamin augerbuck is his name great singer great jazz singer and He'd show up at the open mics on the shit and he I think he really Like maybe because he saw the way that I was living this American gypsy lifestyle And he eventually Helped me get over to Europe and I played the club circuit in Copenhagen for like six weeks or whatever And I was really rough around the edges and like the American novelty in the folk in like blues clubs around Copenhagen wore off really quick And I wound up back on the street, but this time in Europe and as soon as I started playing on the street in Copenhagen man then being a real Texan In Europe in front of tourists on the street man.

1:18:06I start. That's when I started making money It was crazy my money like quadrupled Because all of a sudden I was like a truly exotic Texas is exotic and everywhere you go in the world that means something right They don't want to shake your hand or they step back and it doesn't matter where you go in the world There's no there's not an inch of the world that hadn't heard of Texas you know and um and that said and so musically you know it and I think Culturally it means something no matter what you know and to play music and be a Texan is worth a lot on its own You know, I mean it's a big part of it.

1:18:42It's just being a Texan Gary Clark Jr learning how to hold his own Under the tradition of Austin blues players in Texas guitar slingers. I mean that's It's second to none in the world, you know, and so if you've seen them live you know what it is and uh But I remember seeing like There were no self -checkouts at grocery stores and shit in the United States back then not one and then I was like I ended up down in France because it was getting cold and Copenhagen and I had like I had like two or three hundred croner Left and I put it on a bus ticket to Paris because of my mama's favorite city and I grew up a quite a bit in Louisiana having some of that French heritage and I went down there.

1:19:31I'm glad I didn't think about it man because the language barrier was really difficult And I didn't really realize it's all I was pulling in the city, you know Actually, there was an Algerian guy who spoke English That was like man go to Monmart go to Les Sacres Corps go to Les Sacres Corps. That's where the tourists are whatever and I kind of learned how to hustle Tourist with gypsies kind of that would We're let we're using me kind of as a decoy on the steps and I thought this is great. They these gypsies love me And I'm sitting there playing and while I'm playing I realized that I'm just a distraction while they're pickpocket in his tourists It was a good trick of course.

1:20:06I didn't say anything also I didn't stick with them too much, but like so like the automation thing You know they're they're Europe is way ahead of us on all of that because in a lot of ways America when you try to like analyze America against Europe and These countries over there like in some ways it's similar, but we're more similar to Latin or South America in a lot of ways. We're just how big the country is you know and you know the the ag the you know um Because the country so big we got the states that are divided up on type of shit those kind of technologies to like hit the people and become mainstream It's slow it's a slower process here, right and one of the things You know about the pandemic that is obvious to me now is You know a lot of people realize that they could speed that up, you know and You know, I mean they think they've been trying to eliminate You know the the risks and what's the word what are they like you know externalizing cost right once like how do we get How do we get these machines in here in these people out?

1:21:26hmm and it We've probably jumped ahead in that process in America a decade or more In just a couple of years and I just remember This was probably 2010 You go into a grocery store in Paris and there was there was only one person Working there and everything else was self -checkout And that was years before I saw it here And then you think about the way that that's hitting in every single industry in America. Yeah, right Well, it's so easy for people to be completely disconnected from other people now You know, you don't you don't have to interact You know, and that's part of it and if they don't have to pay people they can maximize their profits Then it becomes a very impersonal experience So I look green is yeah coming baby.

1:22:14It's coming. You see that movie. Yeah good movie. That's a good movie Scary fucking movie. Yeah, well, I think all the dystopian movies about the future they undersold it It's gonna get real weird real soon And because automation is not just gonna apply to self -checkout. It's gonna apply to everything all the all that truck driving Shit, that's all gone. That's gonna be gone. Right. It's all gonna be self -driving trucks And they're gonna be more efficient less accidents safer So remember those big business people It's remember those people I know a whole lot of people who have relied on undocumented workers In this state for decades voting against the very thing that they were using themselves This entire time.

1:22:59Yep. Reliant how you gonna rely on undocumented workers right? You're yourself Right, he ain't paying taxes on it You're not you know those people got no safety that or anything right and then You know here comes the That's where it's gonna happen. You know, I'm not saying just as a negative thing like I think you can already see in social media. I do think there's this This exhaustion even in the youth With this with this monolith, you know with this thing the phones. Yeah, you know and I've been saying that in the music business like in country music You know like Mark Twain said history doesn't um It doesn't repeat it rhymes, right?

1:23:47You know, and so it's like It's 25 now, but I was thinking of it last year in 2024 because like 1974 and music was this crazy year You know and like thinking about the Nashville system The reason that wail and jinnings is different than anybody else is because wailin's the specific guy Who breaks the stranglehold That the Nashville system has on its artists that you can't use your band You can't choose your studio, right like any of that Like wailin if you think how crazy that is you couldn't use your band and you couldn't even pick the studio You couldn't produce you didn't have creative control at all Wailin's the guy that breaks that Through that wall.

1:24:32How did he do it? I think I think a couple of ways it's all it's the yin and yang of wailin Nelson and wailin jinnings They are both on rc a wailie was you know at first You know, it's like Stapleton Stapleton made his career as a songwriter early on you know and and that's what catapulted really For everything, you know, these guy going on on now. There's a really great foundation there of a guy that's spent his whole life writing songs And that's what wailie did, you know, so wailie actually had success pretty early when he got to Nashville with you know songs like nightlife and Crazy and all that kind of stuff and fair and young and patty Klein and these kinds of really big artists were cutting his songs pretty early on right but he was so weird To the establishment at the time and so You know kind of had this like philosophical Thing it to his writing that was going over the heads of the hillbilly deal So he's really neglected as a you know, wailie Nelson records with him singing them wailin was more favored actually by like Chedacans in them um But like you be you'd be number one on the country charts in Nashville in the mid 60s and being dead You know, that's what wailin said wailin was like man.

1:25:54I'd be number one all the time and I was fucking dead broke You know, he's like man they got you out there seven nights a week and you're coming back and lucky molars telling him that you owe him fucking 10 grand You know, that was it was a crazy system Willie ends up leaving rc a there over him He leaves rc a because Jerry Wexler Is coming down an an r and Texans out of this progressive central Texas scene of that era that was so unique And it happened then and just totally unique the whole scene everything here the Movement the hippies and the cowboys the the Where everybody could like hear in the capital of Texas, you know It was weird, but they were in the same rooms.

1:26:40We're still doing that here You know, which is what I'm what I'm really proud of you know and glad that this Town never turned into Nashville or L .A. or any of those towns the best thing that ever happened to us is that the business didn't grow up like that Right. I really do believe that because it's allowed our unique culture to continue to grow Even if it's like I said and sometimes it's it's it's good to be neglected by that machine for sure But so Willie leaves because Jerry Wexler pulls him out of there because rc a doesn't give a fuck about him anyway Right he goes to Atlantic sells 400 ,000 records the boys up in New York don't even realize there's a country division After Willie sells 400 ,000 records, which is a lot right they closed the division and that's when Willie lands at Columbia and He's having success Well, they were starting to think that Whalen was passed his prime too But then Willie's blowing up on the other label and Willie and Whalen got the same manager at the time Neil Russian and what's Russian doing?

1:27:42Reshans leveraging it all and so Whalen was about to leave RCA and They doubled down and matched Kind of Willie's deal Because they didn't want they because they didn't want to lose Whalen and Whalen was like I'm only I'm only stand You know if I like I got to be producing my own records I got it got to be my man and I got to pick the place that I'm playing You know and he he manages to do that so it's not just Whalen. I mean, it's Willie and Whalen together. That's whether so Tied together, you know as these two guys that Their careers just kept you know They just kept cut yet they chasing each other kind of through the record books.

1:28:28You know what I mean and You know because you'd be in Nashville. It's still like this now, right? Like when I got signed in Nashville by 30 Tigers It was purely because John Folk was my agent And those guys they'd tell you this themselves They didn't understand what I was doing. They didn't get it I was only put on the roster as a favor to my agent because they were having success with some other artists openly saying out and understand this Right, which at least they're being honest about you know um But then what they would do that was so weird is like they'd give you Like if a major label would give you you know Half a million dollars on your deal These guys would give you 50 grand right like a tenth of that you know kind of on the independent all country Americana circuit But they would what frustrated made what frustrated me about a Joe was that they're only giving you a tenth of money but they're behaving like major labels With these like two -year record cycles I just kills an artist that's Like that note that hasn't broken through it just kills you That's a that's a 100 % Industry model because they can always get another horse You know what I mean they can always get another horse and they can always You know they bet on 10 young guys and in one of those kind of amateur realists blows up You know They're good right, but you're never going to get away in Lenzhennings Out of that model right it's not gonna you know what I mean It's not it's not gonna happen you know And so how did but How did wailin get it so that he could do whatever he wanted Because Willie left right And they because Willie left And all of a sudden wailin was really gonna leave that's all of a sudden that was his leverage They gave him everything they gave him everything and and and everything was changing Everything was changing in Nashville because we're talking about when I say like 1974 here You got to think about it.

1:30:44You know This is America in Vietnam You know, this is America coming out of The 60s, you know, it's coming Everything was you could I feel like in a lot of ways what was happening is like you know the commercial Culture was really starting to take off You know what I mean? And then by the time we get to the 80s You know, it's like this level of like pop culture and like American pop culture as a Global export, you know by it's like I guess maybe it's finally truly realized by maybe by time Michael Jordan Becomes the like most visible person on the planet, you know kind of in the 80s and 90s. It's like Nashville was such an old system.

1:31:39It's kind of like in country music today like One of the reasons everybody's spreading into it, right is because it's one it's like one of the only places left where There's like loyalty long -term loyalty in the fan base Compared to like, you know, what happened with pop music in the last 20 years with pop and Hip -hop and all that I mean, I can't every one of those guys called me at one point were like I want to get into country music because you got loyal fans. Why all hip -hop industry guys? Why all of them every last one of them and they've had success with a whole bunch of guys since then I just didn't do it Well country music has always been connected to authenticity.

1:32:21Yeah, and that's the reason why you keep the loyal fans Right because of people know that it's real with it's culture wall or whoever it is. It's authentic Hear it and you go this is not mass produced. This is not a bunch of executives sitting around looking at a focus group trying to figure out what's gonna hit Right, yeah, man. You mentioned culture I wanted to say this this is something I want to bring up with the willy and wailin thing and I've been meeting the till culture This I just tell them on your show So we were both on the 30 Tigers roster for years I met culture out at willy's ranch got damn ten years ago Right and he's one of my favorites of always always loved his songwriting.

1:33:02I mean everything he puts out is great Don't you agree? Yeah, I love him special, you know really special some people Jamie termy on to him when I heard Kate McCannon the first time Jamie Johnson No Jamie this oh this Jamie. Yeah, he tested me and he's like you're gonna love this guy. Yeah, he sent me that song I was like holy shit when I found I was 21 when he made that song or you got to be kidding me That sounds like a 60 year old chain smoker man it both is all over and you know what's funny man He's just getting better. Yeah, you know, he is and he's incredible Here's something about that I have I told him I need to I'm gonna want to buy him a pickup truck as a gift for this This is why so he was on the roster I was on the roster and I started way down the back of the line right and made a lot of records and and More and more of the labels are calling and each record I'm putting out is doing better than the previous one and I'm there's more money and promotion going into each album But all a lot outside guys are calling, you know all the coastal labels are calling new york and la or all over me Culture ends up Pulling up stakes and going to rca and he didn't just go to rca took everything with him.

1:34:16He took the whole catalog over there Um, and I wouldn't really aware of that. I didn't know what was going on um And rca what like they had hollered at me like there's one of their a and r guys or whatever But it their big guys were never really interested in me out there right they so they weren't one of the ones that was like really hot on me But david maceus at 30 tigers very similar to what I'm saying is is Culture to me is kind of like willy left rca back in the day And when he left all the sudden those guys because he took everything with him were about to lose me And they fucking handed the keys over to me You know what I mean?

1:35:00Because I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that culture had left and just took Everything and so that ended up happening on a on a on a record cycle for me For now, I'm called $10 cowboy and I was this close to Go into you know the New York boys And maceus comes in last minute and beats them all on the royalty rate on the money on everything right so I guess what I'm saying is culture is kind of my willy nelson Appreciate you, but you're doing good Yeah, he won't do podcasts I try to get him in yeah, I know sent me a bunch of records sent me some cool shit So sorry, but no, yeah, but I mean that's probably better Yeah, he wants to just be as authentic as possible And dude spends time actually working on a ranch.

1:35:49Well, that's what he loves to do. Yeah. You ever been up there to Saskatchewan? No, and it's in their blood. Yeah, that's the what that land is So they do up there. Yeah, I've been right through Saskatoon even the big town there You know, and he's I guess he's not too far down south from there, but like it's uh Those are ranching folks. Yeah. Well, it's in his music clearly. Mm -hmm. You know, I mean that that guy screams authenticity Yeah, he does any grew up on on you know, wailin and all that stuff You know and all the cowboy and all the you know, he knows that cowboy music probably better than anybody.

1:36:24Yeah Yeah, that well, that's that's the thing that when you're talking about these hip -hop artists and pop artists that That's what they feed you know all artists. I mean even someone to pop artists with what do they want to be They want they want something that resonates with people. They want something that really connects with people You know, and if they think the vehicle to doing that as a hip -hop song, they'll take that route Try then they'll hear something like Kate McCann and like god damn That's what I really want to do. Yeah, you know, you can't do you can't duplicate that the only the only way to do that is a limit Yeah, you it's got to be real.

1:36:59It's got to be You know, there's something just like I was talking about with comedy like they they have to know that you're really thinking It's something in music too. They have to know that this is and they like when you write your own shit too You know, you know that it's coming from someone's Someone's mind and their their soul. It's coming from their life experience It's so who's they are as a human being. This is their art. This is a true expression of their their being And that that's what makes people loyal Those pop artists just want to take a picture standing next to authenticity. Yeah, they do well They want to be it, but they don't know how to get there and they don't know how to do it and they've never lived it And they've been you know, they've been paying attention all the polls and the focus groups and they've been listening to the executives They've been taking the advances and driving them Mercedes.

1:37:47They're doing all the shit that Leads you down the wrong path and then one day you realize like fuck It's not what I want, you know It's interesting because it's like You know, there's always going to be these examples of something that pops through that's real that people gravitate towards and then there's always going to be these people trying to capitalize on it and make money off of it and trying to figure out how to recreate it in an Inauthentic way. Yeah, it's not possible That's the one thing that might save us From this AI shit. Yeah exactly because AI is going to create a bunch of really catchy songs, you know But it's never going to create an Oliver Anthony song.

1:38:25It's never going to create hard times You know, it's never going to create some of your shit. It's not it's not going to it's got to come from a real human being And there's a thing that people are always going to want, you know You're always going to want something that you know a real human being made that there's something in it You know, that's why this building is filled with art You know, I love looking at something that somebody made, you know, it came from their their soul Came from whoever they are as a human They laid it down whether it's music or whether it's art Comedy whatever it is.

1:38:57It's like that that's coming from a human being You know, and that's we're always going to want to be connected to that I was looking at you saying that with your Joe Rogan experience sign and you telling me in the hallway that it's Name for Hendrix. Yeah. Yeah. I stole it from Jimmy Oh, when we first started the great the great the greats never revealed their sources. Wow No, I just get I had to I had well, it's obvious. I had to give it to me man. As I'm saying. I'm kind of slow I had to give it up. It's like but you know, I often text us for buses says right there I used to listen to Jimmy all the time on the way to the comedy store that was like Jimmy and Led Zeppelin.

1:39:37Mm -hmm. I listened to a whole lot of love and if six was nine I'd listen to that all the time on the way down Laurel Canyon Do do do do do do do do do do do do do And you imagine how that crazy that must have sounded coming through the radio or coming through like people's sound systems in America in the in the late 60s Well my friend Phil Hartman when he was a kid he used to work at the whiskey He was like you know like a grip and it was his job The the speakers were precariously placed on the edge of the stage And Jimmy performed there and it was his job to stand there and make sure that Jimmy didn't kick over the speaker into the audience So he stood right there why Hendrix played right above him And the way he talked about it man, he's like it was just to him was like this magical moment because I think he was a teenager at the time And it was You know that can somebody else has banned or something?

1:40:40No, he was just working for the club You know, he was just a guy that was hired to work there, you know, just a kid And he was basically literally just there to make sure the speakers and fall into the ground And uh, you know, Jimmy was playing right above him just right there He said it was incredible. It was insane. He said it was just like this magical moment Because Jimmy live, you know, there's something about Seeing someone live, you know like I was talking about when I saw Gary played midnight rider There's something live and I was with my oldest daughter and we were at this downtown LA club and it was like A Monday or Tuesday night.

1:41:18It was a weeknight and it was a midnight show It was like a real late night show and it was uh sponsored by an alcohol company. I wish I could remember the company But they put together this very small show and it was just They it was a total impromptu session and Suzanne my friend Suzanne Santo who's the lead singer of honey honey at the time. She's incredibly talented She was singing it and she didn't know the exact words So she had to get the words off of her phone. So she's singing midnight rider off her phone and garrison the background And I recorded it on my phone and I upload see if you can find it, Jamie I have But I have somebody else in version.

1:42:02Oh, shit That's what I'm talking about right there Holy hair, garrison. It was jayvison Come on Love when he gets into it Yeah Oh Yeah Oh Blues will never grow out of style Oh Oh Come on, Gary. Let's go Oh That's a nice jacket G Yeah Oh, that's the Jamie see if you can find midnight rider on my Instagram. I know it's on there I want to I want to play that part because it was fucking insane. It was just one of those Magical moments where you see someone perform live. There's just something about you get a lot of it there it is Is it Oh Yeah See how she's looking at her phone She had to read the lyrics off her phone They're all doing that now.

1:46:19It's crazy. She had to because she didn't know exactly the lyrics What if you didn't have what if you didn't have this fucking thing though? Well then you might remember me at my hat to remember well she would have to get a piece of paper Or make some shit up. Yeah, it makes some shit up better. Yeah Man, you know listening to Gary do that and you talking about how much you love CB Raven It just you know it reminds me it's like you know this To me, it's like, you know It's like countries Everything countries nothing, you know because if you're in If you're in Texas All that shit over there on the other side Mississippi like it goes away for us, you know, there's a there's a there's a brashness there's a There's a boldness In any sound whether it's coming out of honky -tongue or coming out of a blues joint In Texas, it's a totally different sound.

1:47:09You know, it's like a Billy Gibbons talked about this a lot You know like when those guys were trying to break through on the national scene the idea of Texas is just a total stigma Right, it's all hillbilly's it's all provincial. Yeah, you know and all this shit, you know and So it's like you go to Nashville or whatever and it's all Appalachia It's all you know what I mean. It's because it's and that's the thing. It's like I can give a fuck about some genres You know because you get classified but one thing You can't explain away is place right you can't explain away region Right like you are from where you're from yeah, Gary Clark juniors from right here.

1:47:52Yeah, and he fucking sounds like it You know what I mean? Yeah, he sounds like it and it's like it's not that it's rock blues soul country Whatever it's it's Texas and what happens with Texans of any background right they discount you for sure look at us as provincial right um, I mean people got some ideas about what Texas is who have never stepped foot in the state That's not any different than you know People who've never been to California claiming to be an expert on it right and so it's like there's two roads for a Texas artist You either let somebody in Nashville or New York or LA Convincia to lose your accent you know Just Wash the Texas off do it our way or which is the only way is to take your brand of Texas to the world Whatever it is I whether it's Gary or Selena or anybody Steve or Hivon Stevie Ray Vaughan man.

1:48:52Yeah. Yeah Yeah, that's the comedy too man. I mean Bill Hicks who's one of the greatest of all time. He's my favorite right from here That's right the same was hot man. Yeah, it was hot because of him. It was got hot because of him in kinesan Texas, you know, I remember you know Hicks no Madam once Madam once real briefly didn't even get a chance to talk to him But a song performed live a few times before he died you did see him. Yeah, so I kinesan a few times live I saw kinesan live before he died too, but he had already passed his prime kinesan passes prime real quick Because it was uh he's a cautionary tale Because of the partian, you know like He was the fucking man.

1:49:34Oh, y 'all got a party scene y 'all you comedians got a party scene. Oh, it's well that party scene in LA At the time was the cocaine party scene. It was a different party scene, you know Mark Maran said that he hung out with kinesan and they did so much coke that he had voices in his head for a fucking year afterwards a year Like literally like skits a frenake You know like hearing voices in his fucking head for a year before they stopped talking to him Yeah, they were doing cocaine man. Yeah, they were doing at the courtroom everywhere Yeah, he was doing it everywhere, but kinesan became almost like a caricature of himself.

1:50:07It became sort of captured by this The the perception by this character that that they had created and kinesan is what birth hicks You know hicks was Hicks was a great comic, but he was one of the outlaws. It was kinesan and hicks that sort of defined the Texas style And when we were living in um at the time I was living in New York and there was there was really two places in the country There was LA where you wanted to go to get on TV everybody wanted to go get a fucking sitcom They all wanted to be Jerry Seinfeld and New York, which was like the club comics That was like the david tells and the these guys that would like you know the The guys would do the clubs and they were they were thought of as like the real pure comics You know and then there was this new scene this new scene out of Houston This new scene out of the livestock and river oaks And I remember the first time I ever worked there Man you could feel it in the building you could feel that they had been there You know they were both gone by the time I had worked there.

1:51:07They were both dead But you could feel it in the building man you could feel it in the the comics the open mic scene you could feel they were pure You know there was a there was a Texas quality to the way they were doing comedy. It was a fuck you Yeah, fuck you that's what I like it. Yeah Yeah, it's with it's with fuck with both sides of the room absolutely and get and then and just fuck them up and yeah Cross them over and yeah put them in his pocket and no one knew what to where he was. Yeah, I didn't know what he was That's right the first time I ever saw me bombed He bombed except for the comedians.

1:51:40We were seeing video because you know there's quite there's quite a bit of video him From these clubs here in in Houston when he was younger because they were even in the you know in the 90s They were filming yeah, and I've seen some of those clips where he's like Like you're talking about he just couldn't fucking a whole room's afraid of him like yeah, no one's laughing Everyone's afraid. He's like super fucked up Well, he was the first comic really that had a message right, you know He had like there was a there was a social commentary to his like a dark poetry to his comedy and so many people tried to emulate it that it the The green room with a punchline in Atlanta.

1:52:16There was a like people wrote a bunch of shit on the walls in the green room But one of the big ones that said quit trying to be hicks Wow, I remember seeing that going yes everybody did we all did Is anybody wanted to be hicks dude you come so after stevy raven passed right I'm you know we were up in dials for it worth and you'd come down here we'd come down here and in in high school and shit And go up and down six street. I will never forget this Every single Was playing like stevy raven yeah Every single one of them and there were 30 of them like there were 30 different ones it yeah coming in out of bars doing all the shit It was it was unbelievable.

1:53:03Yeah, there's always gonna be someone like that that like sets this thing trying to be hicks Yeah, quit trying to be hicks, but it was like that was a my daddy died for that flag. Oh really? How about mine it came art. It's made in China But he could do it because he because he was a Texan yeah, the vernacular is real and then he'd turn around and yeah You know fuck up the other side. Yeah, no, it was genius Well, when I when I first saw him he went on in Boston and it was a next comedy stop and the guy who went on before him was He was a nice guy, but he was a hack, you know He's just like cops and donuts normal shit stupid jokes But the stupid jokes were working.

1:53:45It was cartoon character smoking pot You know, what would happen if daffy duck smoked a you know joint with Donald duck it was dumb But it was getting people to laugh and then hicks went on stage and Like immediately started bombing, you know It immediately opened up with saying that he's tired of performing and it tired of going up and Telling people a bunch of shit you couldn't possibly think up on your own But the comics were dying and he was there was like 300 people in the room by the time he was done performing There was 50 There's 50 and there was maybe me my friend Greg Fitzhimmons were in the back of the room just dying laughing and maybe 10 comics We'd all come to see hicks because we had heard about him Then I saw him a month later at the comedy connection and he fucking murdered The comedy connection was this little tiny club.

1:54:40It was like 150 seats real low -seeing Boston as well. This is when I was first starting so this is like 1988 And it is before he'd really popped I'd heard about him from the Rodney Dangerfield HBO special You know, so the Rodney Dangerfield had these young comedian specials Rodney was the best at like Introducing the world to talented comedians and he had these Rodney Dangerfield young comedian specials where he'd have on like Robert Shemmel and Lenny Clark and Andrew Dice Clay and that's where Kinnison emerged and Hicks Hicks was one of them too And I remember I'd seen Hicks on that so I went to see him live And like I said the first time he bombed the second time he fucking murdered It was Tiffany meeting Jimmy Hendrix at the mall he was doing this bit Bit of a Jimmy Hedrick like Tiffany played at the mall and Jimmy Hendrix shows up And it was it was just fucking just genius bit It was so funny man.

1:55:34Is that something that's out there? Can you see that? Wonder man, I wonder because I don't think he ever put that on anything it might be on an album somewhere But it was back when there was all this like pop mall comedy or pop mall music and he fucking hated it You know and it was uh and he was just Rallying there's a genre for you right there. Yeah Rallying against corporatism. It's gonna make a comeback that little sub genre. Yeah, I mean it We're doing something new with it. It kind of has Austin has a great comedy scene right now. It really does and it's really just emerged from the pandemic Was that like the main thing that drew you here?

1:56:09Well, we all moved here to start it We didn't even move here to start it. We moved here to just keep doing what we were doing in LA But LA had shut down and in 2020 we were all like We were all without a country, you know We were living in LA and the comedy store was shut down for a fucking year and a half Wow man. It was so so shut down out there It was so shut down and I knew I'm I'm one of those dudes. It's just like I've never had faith in systems and government And I'm like these motherfuckers are gonna keep us shut down They're gonna keep and I came to Texas and Ron white was already here So Ron white who's a very good friend of mine and Gary I knew I knew Gary from LA He used to hang out at the comedy store too and that's why I became friends with him and he moved here I think 2017 or 2018 and I talked him on the phone like why why'd you go back to Austin?

1:56:58He's like man, I can't fuck with those people in LA It's just like I'm tired of it man. He goes I love Texas. I just this is real and it's like I need to go back home And I was like wow that sounds right that sounds right and then when I talked to Ron and Ron's the same way Ron's a Texas boy too And he was like I can't I just don't want to do this anymore. I will stay here. It's great He goes it's great to middle of the fucking contract to fly anywhere Fucking food's good people are nice And so I knew when I came here I was like at the very least Ron's ear and Ron's a good friend And then when we came here we could perform live in do I first started doing shows outside me and Dave Chappelle started doing shows at Stubbs And we were doing outside shows where we had to test the whole crowd everybody had to get tested So everybody had to show up like two hours in advance We tested everybody for COVID they had to wear a mask outside.

1:57:48It was so fucking stupid The whole thing was so ridiculous But we were hanging out in the back and drunk smoking weed It was like it was like normal was like normal times And it was like this cultural thing like we were the only ones doing comedy And you know everybody just started coming here man They all just started coming here And then we started doing shows inside at the Vulcan the Vulcan gas company Which is a music club that's on six streets. So we started performing there and you know Nick the guy was the owner is just a wild dude. He's like fuck it. Let's just do shows We started doing shows in November of 2020 And it just felt like we were baby killers.

1:58:23We were killing grandma You know we're out there just spreading diseases. We were super spreaders If you spend enough time on six street Anyway, it'll make you immune Yeah, we had developed some strong antibodies I never got sick off a six street. I got sick in Florida That's what I mean though six street will make you bulletproof to that too Yeah, what's acceptable it's so yeah, acceptable it's and there's a lot of that going on there too So we we started doing shows there live and then Comics start moving man. They start moving and droves. Mm -hmm. They started all moving in Texas because they could do shows here We've just lost I didn't know that without doing shows.

1:58:57We just all felt lost and then by the time 2021 rolled around there was like 15 16 world -class comics living in Austin Wow, and then I was like fuck it. I'm buying a club and Ron talk me into it You got to get a fucking club. We got to do this Because you know, he knew I got a bunch of money from the Spotify deal So I said all right, let's fucking do it and so then in 2022 or three I guess we opened up and It's just been gangbusters ever since and now it's like this is the hub of comedy in the country Which makes it the hub of comedy in the known universe? It's all here in Texas. It's all that club.

1:59:34I like that. Oh, that's really cool man props to you for pulling that off Well, I mean, I think I pulled it off, but I think it's but people are already pulled it off people are proud of the Comedy you know history in this town. Yes, you know, and it's a it's a great place And it's all walks of life man, you know, that everybody likes to use that term inclusive and diversity Well, our scene is diverse and inclusive, but everybody's great It's only diverse because they just happen to be everybody's fucking diverse We're all you know, you get artists. They're all different weird people and what we didn't seek that out It was just what happened.

2:00:13It was just who's good who's good? Who's who's really all about this? Who really wants to live this life who really wants to just do comedy and we set it up where we have Two nights of open mic nights, and you know, we've got kill Tony on Monday nights All the amateurs get a chance to be seen in front of the whole world and the biggest live comedy show in the world on YouTube And it just became this hub man and now it's just fucking every night. It's sold out. It's crazy It's just it's a vibrant wild scene and now on six street There's five full -time clubs within two blocks of my club Comedy clubs comedy clubs.

2:00:50Yeah, the scene is insane. I mean, it's the best scene in the country It's like there's never been a scene like this before they just emerged and in a And it had all we had to hit every green light like the comedy store had to be closed down So I hired everybody that was working at the comedy store before we even had a club. I said I'm gonna pay you full -time you get benefits you get all insurance all that shit just come move to Austin We'll call on you in like a year It's gonna take like a year to build this place But meanwhile you'll you'll get paid you'll be able to just like live here set set your roots Get established.

2:01:24It's a beautiful place to live Everybody fucking loved it and then when we opened we hit the ground running We opened up one night we did a couple of test shows like let's try the venues make sure everything works good And then was I fuck it. Let's stay open and we just stayed open before you know it was seven nights a week And then it was just it's been almost three years now You're gonna keep it rolling fuck yeah. Yeah, fuck yeah. We're talking about doing it in other places now It's cool. We just don't want to water it down You know we've talked about doing it in some other city and trying to figure out what the next one would be But it would have to be a city that has a real group of talent.

2:01:57You have to have talent like that's every Comedy community it the only way it works is you have to have a lot of great comics that live in that town It's the only way it works and then we feed off of each other. This is the only way There's no lone wolves in comedy, you know comedy only it's only iron sharpens iron You know, there's no like the best comic in the world living in Pittsburgh doesn't exist Like they all live where they all they're they're not in competition But in cooperation with each other like you're world inspired by each other Yeah, you have to have that if you don't and so we had to have like every green light the comedy show how to be Comedy store had to be shut down for a solid year and a half all those people had to be unemployed I had to have all this money from Spotify.

2:02:40I had to be in a place like Texas that allows you to open up and have a show indoors When everything in California was close they wouldn't even let you do outdoor shows We weren't even allowed to do show we try to do shows in the parking lot the comedy store and they wouldn't allow us It was crazy. No, I remember how I'm gonna rush that down it was 70 % of all the restaurants went under. I mean it was fucking madness. Yeah, that's crazy Yeah, a lot a lot of exchange. Yeah, a lot really fast. Yeah, real fast real fast You know, so we had head every green light and we had to have all these people that were willing to take a chance all the Thompson Gurus and Tim Dylan's and Tony Hinchcliffe's and Duncan Trussles all these great comics It just was like fuck it.

2:03:21We'll move there Brian Simpson and Tony Hinchcliffe and so all these guys just said fuck it Let's take a chance like I don't want to live like this I don't want to I want to live where I can't do comedy. It's like we're just like junkies with no No fix, you know, yeah I was on I was still working the red dirt circuit when the pandemic hit so to be honest with you those old those boys was like it never closed Wow didn't not those all those all those old dance halls and beer joints and Thank God none of those places closed Thank fucking God It kept us working man, you know, it was the thing and I was just working so hard I never really thought about anything else But something about the California shut down that that's funny when you we talking not funny, but but um Like the pandemic hit and I was unknown But I had just finished that record welcome to hard times and it didn't have anything to do with anything I had had the two surgeries I'd like gone through a relationship that with that crashed in burn in a tailspin You know, I'd got I'd gotten rid of a management relationship that was going nowhere and I wrote welcome to hard times just kind of out of my own personal Kind of dark feelings about where I was going through and just the whole like rigged Casino You know America's a casino, you know, I have thought that since I was a kid because I kind of lived in them, you know, you're talking about being pull -offs um And then the wreck I've cut the record in Georgia South Georgia was with Mark Neil Right like I got the whole thing I cut it like I wrote the record in November cut it in December Got the masters back and like a week or two later I remember we me and Taylor Grace my now wife we were dating and we were at a Diner and cloud croft new Mexico And my manager at the time called me and said that South by Southwest was canceled And that for us here at that time that's when we knew this shit was real Nothing could stop the machine that was South by Southwest at the time and Strangely for me.

2:05:44I'm not I knew a lot of people that have known a lot of people that have passed away or anything so I'm not saying that all the stuff that happened is a good thing at all, but for me My career trajectory totally changed early on the pandemic because No one was putting out records the whole no one had any interest in putting out records um and for that reason david maceus because I was riding his ass actually thanks to john folk at the time Is like don't let him show your record put that record out right now, you know, we're talking about you know july 2020 you know and I demanded more money no one no one had ever put a dollar into marking in my records.

2:06:29I'm talking about nothing before The shit hit the fan These guys were talking about spending like 10 15 grand total Marketing welcomed our times wow total. I mean shit. I spent Twice that or more making it and that's still a cheap record, but I mean, I remember a public has told me once like You should spend at least double the money marketing your record that it cost you to Make it and at least match it, you know, and here I was like that's what I mean I was like caught on this like broke dick americonisine You know on these two -year record cycles You know with no money, you know, I was on a I was on a broke dick deal just like wailin was talking about, you know Just didn't I don't I'm not I'm not bagging on americon or anything, you know, I mean I'm glad I showed up on the map somewhere But we went ahead and put it out in july 2020 and I had been wanting to buy billboards and it just so happened Especially in california, but even in new york.

2:07:28I mean everything was shut down. I mean totally shut down So I remember we bought a billboard in silver late and in time square right static traditional static billboards For like 80 % off because nobody was buying shit not a single other billboard over the course of like a nine months or a year And those neighborhoods changed right and I bought a one all those billboards. I bought like one month billboards And some of those motherfuckers stayed up over six months. Wow, you know what I mean at like 75 % off, you know and You know Sometimes you write a song That get lucky I was writing about personal experience and it spoke For me it wasn't a big record it but it changed My trajectory because welcome to hard times the song Really spoke to what was happening in america.

2:08:24Yeah, and that's what that's when my train really started rolling That's when it really started rolling. You know what I mean it's like And then I did all those records and welcome to hard times and music city USA coming like kind of right for the Right for the Nashville machine and then the man from wakeo that I made down in lockhart with Bruce Robinson Which was like the first time really that I'd made a studio record with my guys You know with more money and Bruce Robinson a songwriting friend that was not stopping me from being me You know and and and then that one was my first one to hit the like a billboard 200 um and then ten dollar cowboy Really took off another big step from there Uh, and then I got hooked back up with shooter.

2:09:11I used to open up for shooter because shooter was getting booked by john folk too Right and the two guys that took a liking to me early on like pretty much nobody else did was Evan Joker and turnpike tribute or us and shooter gennings You know shooter would take me out and like he didn't have to be cool to me I mean he's fucking wailing son But he was always so cool. He's just cool and so thoughtful You know, yeah, he's a great guy and he would give me little things to live by like when he saw how hard I was working out there He's like it says you can't park behind the Nashville palace But between me and you fucking camp there and nobody's gonna say shit and I lived in that fucking parking lot That's the kind of shit you get by on you know what I mean And uh we uh I've got this movie that I funded you know how slow the movie businesses That I was gonna be called $10 cowboy and I made it's this thing I put together I like finished my touring season at the rodeo finals in Vegas And then I get back to Texas and all the pressure of the businesses mounted on me Um, and I'm just trying to get away from my manager and The machine and my and my phone and all that shit and I decided to leave the phone at the house and I had heard from a journalist about this secret shrine in a liquor store Dedicated wail and Jennings in his hometown a little field Texas there on 84 I'd known about it But we in the movie I I'm playing Like I've never heard of it and I'm going on this pilgrimage You know to to find out if this little museum really exists which it does it's run by his youngest brother James D Wailen's youngest brother oh wow and so when to get the movie going I needed to get on the phone with shooter, you know to get hooked up with James D in them and we got the idea to get his mama Jesse culture involved and all that and I was and I wanted to use some awaylands music for the film and and I was scared to death to ask for it um But but shooter'd always been good to me and so we ended up having the conversation We caught up on a lot of stuff because see I'd been hearing that he was producing Right, but I couldn't make heads or tails of it where he was going with it and Truthfully I was like avoiding producers altogether because a lot of these guys.

2:11:17It's like You know, there's such there's such big names it overshadows the artist You know what I mean? And then they have the deal like they have the artist deal right then the artist just kind of in a lot of ways gets Limited to like Acting talent, you know showing up at the fucking you know movie lot or whatever yeah and um and But I kept hearing records that he was making by people I knew like Jamie Wyatt I said and it's the best thing she's ever done shooter Jennings Vince in illimerson. This is the best thing he's ever done shooter Jennings like over and over And I had been noticing that and so we're on the phone And he's all about the movie.

2:12:01Yeah, I'm gonna help you license the songs. We'd love that You know my mama loves your music and all that you know, she's sad. She's in the movie uh, he just was helpful with everything and um I had almost made a record at sunset sound there in old downtown Hollywood the old sunset sound studio I'd wanted to go in there because Mark Neil had told me about it and I was tired of making records in Georgia and didn't want to go over to the wrong side miss To be uh, I wanted to make a record in California and I told shooter in passing on the phone that it had fallen through and You know, did he know said set sound and he was like man, Charlie's crazy.

2:12:39I'm signing the lease On studio three the print studio tomorrow. Wow just in passing, you know, and I'm like man Well, then let's make a record and We're right in the middle of a trilogy now. I did loan some drifter with him man, and then the next one that's coming out is dollar a day on eight eight Which I think is a lucky number and then I've got a third one coming after that that we're calling the sage brush trilogy And shooter is the first guy I've ever been a studio with Where I truly don't feel judged, you know what I mean? And now I get and because I've got all these it's just a perfect timing It's like wow that like have been out on the road them 10 plus years ago And then you know like think about what he's been through in the business, right?

2:13:23I mean he started cutting records 20 years ago I mean He's a crucified son automatically, right? You know what I mean walking You know Walking in that shadow that shadow Man, he said a crazy line to me on the other day He said in regards to some other situation he was in he was like I was he said I went from one shadow to another Just a beautiful line. I think he was talking about like an old relationship. He was in or something but Um, but like he's overcome that because you know what I mean like he stepped into like If you listen to his records, you know When he's starting out and you compare it to the field you know in country music and Nashville at the time like He's totally Like he's totally swimming upstream.

2:14:13He's totally going against the grain nobody's Sounding like that. They're not sounding traditional and pushing the boundaries like he just was You know, and I can tell you constitutionally. He's he's just like his daddy. I mean he drink me and Smoked me under the table. I'm like you are waylinson And for some reason you like get smarter The more weed you smoke and my brain is like my brain is just like pulverizing You know, but but I'm I'm really proud of and excited about everything that I'm doing with him because I've just taken me so long To get where I'm at and here I've got a partner, you know in making records that Isn't judging me but also Is pushing me to take it higher, you know, because I'm trying to figure out how to transcend it too, you know everybody's always There's a lot of You know, I've always been a pretty Polarizing figure for some reason with audiences.

2:15:13It's either it's a love hate thing um And I've done a lot of styles, you know, and they've called me a stylistic chameleon um Here in Austin even the first time they put me on the chronicle, you know, they called me a stylistic chameleon And I had a hard time with that, you know, because I didn't Wasn't taking it as a compliment, right? It's not a compliment. No, yeah, but um It's that whole thing where it's like okay. I can play the blues. I can play country music I can play folk music learn how to play all that show in the street matter fact, right? um It's surprising to me that people would Question mouth intensity point to me playing in subway cars As this aha moment that I'm not who I said I was.

2:15:58I'm like, isn't that hilarious? Why don't you go try to play in those New York City train cars? Well, that's people that are just talking brother. I'd rather get on a fucking bull Yeah, yeah, do you think man? Look it's synchronicity that like fate is a real thing Because just think about how all that lined up. I feel like sometimes I mean, it's a very ego -sens - ego -centric thing to think you know the things are meant to be like there's a plan for you It's silly, but it also isn't you know fate Seems to somehow or another be a real thing and sometimes the way things synchronize and the way things line up Be like man, this seems like it's meant to be Think there's certain things that they just seem like they're meant to be and I feel like If you're on the right frequency and you're following the right path Those those doors open and these things do happen and they happen when they're supposed to happen They happen at the right time for the right reasons.

2:17:01Mm -hmm. You know, I just completely in fate. Yeah, I don't I don't really believe in faith Mm -hmm. I think there's a there's a Surrender and a helplessness and a lot of ways to a lot of people's idea of faith Right when people are like love your struggle I never liked that saying. It's like no love the strength that Your creator gave you to overcome the struggle. Don't love the struggle. Nobody fucking loves the struggle Right, right. It's the strength and especially real struggle. Yeah Like real real struggle is not knowing if it's gonna work out. You're not gonna love that Know what I mean.

2:17:42I never understood that. I mean, I guess I get it but like but fate It's successful fate is a thing that's like that's destiny. Yeah, you know like wailin like shooter And like the wailin Jennings thing for me, you know, it's like, you know, I was out there You know, we were I did my a debut at the Houston rodeo back in the spring And for me that was like my career goal, you know, because of Selena and in George straight and And everybody hell Elvis played there twice. I mean, it doesn't matter what your background is is a Texan any background The Houston rodeo that's the top culturally. I think as like a stage For an artist to perform.

2:18:24I think it's a Houston rodeo, you know, and it was the Astro Dome and not the NRG stadium And I would have never known that it's the truth and it does it crosses You know everything economic racial everything. It's it's the Houston rodeo, you know, and it's the biggest rodeo on earth You know Which is why you got everybody from like I said, you know Whalen Jennings Merle George straight nowadays. You got post Malone and Beyonce both planted. Wow. I mean it doesn't It doesn't matter who it is like that's the that's the platform Anyway, I played there and we were mixed we're putting a live record out on it and me and shoot it were mixing it there at sunset sound And then I stayed the extra night because he had the party at the biker room for the announcement of these three unreleased Whalen Jennings records and their legit unreleased.

2:19:13It's not AI bullshit. It's not remixes. This is truly legitimately unreleased music by arguably You know the king for certainly the king of all the outlaws Yeah, but in my opinion when it comes to like Nashville country music whatever you want to call it man like uh A buddy of mine john spawn a journalist here in town the Texan he was we were at the sagebrush doing an interview a couple years back And he was saying that like If Willie Nelson to country music is like Cheg of era right Whalen Jennings was the long -haired prince of darkness Right and like He's the guy that Like he's from west Texas right the guy learned he he learned how to play bass Onstage he learned how to play bass on fucking stage backing up buddy holly Right who at the time was bigger than Elvis man You know, I mean that style of rock and roll right it's coming from everywhere.

2:20:20I mean nobody's just Making their nowadays. They're kind of strangely making music in a vacuum in a bedroom But like in some ways right but these guys It's like whether it's robber john center bb king in the delta or whatever or buddy holly out in west Texas You're influenced by the radio and all that But there's something to be said For like what's out how hard that earth is out there in west Texas some like people talk a lot of shit about love it Right smells like shit because cows everywhere so fucking flat, you know the thing you can Stand on a fucking tin can and like you know See a hundred miles or whatever they say out there right but like The best people to play a show for probably anywhere in America in many ways in my opinion is like a show and love it Like there's something about the people in that town where it's like It's just the best place to play and then like Willie Nelson is now in the rock and roll hall fame And he deserves it dolly part and now too But wail and jennings was always rock and roll like he was never traditional Country there's nothing about him if you know what you're listening to even on his very first record like country folk folk country Right there's nothing straight ahead listen to anything coming out of Nashville and like 1965 Anything next to wail and jennings.

2:21:36He's the long -haired prince darkness, you know he is Like he is going to be the they're undoing of the Because what they did is they built a they built a wall around Nashville Because the coast had all the money and all the zeitgeist power and in response, Nashville Walled themselves off Right, you know what I mean? That's really what they did and then wailin wailin busted through And I know I'm going back on that a lot but like my path that led to making records with shooter was that when I started figuring out like the map is when I like cracked the code and Realized why what wailin was doing musically like I just I finally fell in love with it him musically And it was on this specific record from 1968 called hanging on right and like Every swinging dick in this business that I ever knew coming up in Texas that anything to do with Texas songwriters of country Every one of them wanted to be wailin jennings Willie Nelson Townsvansant and Billy Joe Shaver every single one And I naturally stepped wide of that Because everybody I knew is trying to do it and like imitating an artist Like for the advanced part of their movement on in and of itself.

2:22:57That's worthless It's it's not that it's worthless. It's that You will never touch it if you don't go walk your own path right So a lot of guys I knew when I started playing all the shows with Willie Willie called me up and Got me on with his agent and shit and put me on like 50 shows and a lot of guys I knew were like Looking at me like man, why are you gonna play with Willie? You know and at first I didn't even I didn't know Right because I was realizing guys that I knew like they knew Willie Nelson shit in and out We're literally trying to sing like him. So like fuck you. I should have that spot And like you know, I'm nobody at the end of the day, right?

2:23:35I'm the best at being me Right, you know, it when sometimes Right, but like how I think I've landed with shooter and his family and and be playing all those shows with Willie and Getting married on his ranch and all that stuff is because not because of worship Willie Nelson But because I think Willie looked at me and was like I like I like what you're doing. I like how you got where you're at You play with me You know, you don't ask to take your picture with Willie. He fucking lets you know When you're gonna take your picture with him You're gonna let you know it's time to get your picture taken with Willie.

2:24:17That's how they did it And we're standing there's like 100 nitrous cans behind us and shit. It was like the greatest photo in my life You know, yeah, it's a natural inclination that people have when they want to be authentic to imitate authenticity That's the things you gotta find your own path You've got to you got to you have to put You have to put yourself out there, you know like when I was playing on the street people knew I was different and artists the hipsters like in the Brooklyn scene and in Bushwick and Williamsburg and All over the burrows and shit like to be on the street playing like that there's credibility to that right But in like I didn't want to play in subway cars actually what it was is young rapper J don jaydon would would would it is his name and He kept seeing me at the Metropolitan avenue stop playing there at the platform, you know for the for the cars coming by on the L train or whatever G train down there on metropolitan G train sucks to ride on it's great for Subway performers because there's like it's the slowest train in the world right so you get Huge audience between every fucking you know trained.

2:25:39So it's a gold mine for for a street performer a terrible drag for the you know New Yorkers waiting on it right anyways this kid kept trying to get me He would always show up with like a different guitar player and shit with like a amp On his shoulder which I copied I got an amp read off a nine volt battery You get about seven eight hours of it in this telecaster and I learned it from this guy ghost who was already doing it Those playing with j don't who's like kind of part of citizen coat clearance greenwood street team He kept trying to get me to go on the subway cars I was like man this kid's crazy like he's rapping and shit and Hand the subway cars like I'm all right, you know and Eventually he like kind of cornered me Actually what it was I kept dodging him and then I was finished one day and I get in the car.

2:26:29It's on the L train And I'm riding in the car and I'm just sitting there looking down the train And all of a sudden I see that skinny mother fucker in a white tee walking toward me and he's moving and they can't really you know the trains can be loud and I'm looking I'm trying to put together and when he gets closer I realize he's rapping And he's got that guitar player with him with the amp behind it's playing this like really badass bluesy hip hop beat And he's freestyling like You know the hatcher wearing he's rhyming to it the next stop he's putting it in the versi shit He's got all these mix tapes in his hand.

2:27:02He's handing him out shit and he sees me and he hands me one And that's how he got me because of Saul like it working and he was making money and like dropping product You know, I thought holy shit right cuz so like it comedy scene music scene whatever say you got a place on six street holds right 100 people And you play there third you get a residency you play there 39th of month right and you get a hundred you different people Show up there every night that what is that 3000 people It's like dude we could you could hit 3000 people and like half a day on the On the train cars once we started working it And so it was like it was his it was his and he was a spoken word poet this kid this kid kids started fucking rapping on trains like 15 And like Philly Which is fuck man Philly's tough.

2:27:51I have to tell you Philly's tough Like train cars and Philly that's mind blown, you know, and then he comes to New York with that And like takes that spoken word improvisational thing And like all the best rappers I saw in that town they were all like spoken word poets because you know, they just were smart and quick You know and like we then we got together and like Mashed it up and again like I went from making where I would make $30 you know all the sudden like we would make $300 and split it You know 50 50 and we turned that into a whole Like a really fine pretty well old machine where there started being five or six of us and we were bringing guys up and down from New Orleans And shit, so that's where you see the trumpet players different spoken word rappers.

2:28:39We were squatting in warehouses You know owned by Ha SIDS that were like renting out space that was supposed to be for rehearsal But really everybody's living there and selling drugs and shit Wiling out and You know I cranked that up We cranked that up and did get and did get discovered by like the heart of the pop machine right there on the art train Wow And like just what you would think you can see video of this stuff, but it's like they saw that we were believable Yep, and we're just trying to figure out and that's one of the spoken word dudes right there was Eric Hughes from Jacksonville, Florida And that hippie right there that was my friend of mine It's younger brother from high school down here in Texas There's something about street performing That is there's no net This you you're performing for people that are involuntary.

2:29:32Oh man They don't want you in there and you're breaking like 10 laws you're breaking 10 laws And they don't want you in there right, but if you're good If you're good it means a lot you ever see the video of Biggie when he's performing He's 17 on a street corner in Brooklyn. Oh, yeah, oh my god. You pull that one up Yeah, just for fun up that fucking video is like you watching this kid This kid with this talk about even though he I mean, I know he's the king But he's still underrated. You know what I mean? Yeah, oh yeah, he's crazy underrated for that how smart he was oh He was so good. He was so good.

2:30:03Yeah, standing up. Yeah, that's the one I The blues never goes out style never what do you what do you say like a like a we say like ice cream. I'll scoop you yeah It's so clever and like oh he was so clever. Yeah, it was so clever There was comedy in his lyrics, you know, it was just I met his aunt on the train Yeah, we did and like jade on knew who she was because he he ran that he was running the trains before I was and like He knew all those people because he'd been working at so hard and was like It was crazy some of the people that we come in like who you come in contact with on those subway cars You know what I mean?

2:31:43It's like I saw Jake Gyllenhaal on the train one day and then some other day on the you know Six train it'd be like the NBA commissioner and shit gave us a hundred dollar bill. Wow, you know, it's like To me that's like That's all that's that's all it is, you know, it's like Whatever the circuit is like put in yourself out there And when you go out in public man and stick when you go out in public and you put yourself out there And you really do that That's that's a transformation. That's a metamorphosis. Yeah for anybody for anybody. Yeah, it's with it It's just undeniable. It's the most authentic form of performance ever You know, that's not your audience.

2:32:24They don't know you you have to earn it you have to you have to break through Yeah, you have to break through it. That's the it has to hit Yeah, it has to be real. So all I've been doing is swinging on the whole time Joe Yeah, man, well, you're killing it. They used to cut it sometimes it called me the Muhammad Ali country music That's too good a compliment, but I like it But there's you know, that's the only way you make Charlie Crockett you gotta I mean your story Is it it's important for people to hear because it's the only way you make someone like you you know You don't make someone like you in a mall you don't make someone like you with a bunch of executives making these decisions Based on what they think it's gonna be popular and it was crazy they were doing that shit you think they would do so this woman Nell Mulderry Sawson the artrain and she was in the Sony system and managing artists and like Kind of the star maker that pop machine of like 2010 2011 So they bring us up into the offices in career town, right?

2:33:27And like on the edge of hell's kitchen there and her office was off the side of this Sony legacy Like kind of catalog room because of the time she was married to rob Santos one of the guys at Sony legacy And she had the social this little office off the side of the like library thing whatever and she brings us in there and They're putting us in front of these like computer screens And showing us like Jim class heroes in the gorillas and odd future and Janelle Monae and like all doing these focus group training things You know and where they're gonna plug you in to the thing and it was like What was so difficult about it for me?

2:34:11I'm not they didn't do anything wrong, you know We were young desperate men Playing in public transit, you know you yeah be careful what you asked for you know, yeah I was mad for a long time, but I've been eating off that plate forever because it I Realized man, I was like man if you don't know what you want if you don't know where you're going If you don't know what you're selling they're gonna sell it for you. Yes, you know what I mean Yeah, it doesn't matter who it is. Yeah, it's not their fault That's what they do no I need that was the best thing that could have happened to me is cuz like I believed that there was some deal I wasn't on the trains for it, but I knew we'd find it.

2:34:47I really did I had I had I it was fate It was fate and like you know, it's that whole thing like I got there it fell apart quick It wrecked me man, and I got that's when I found that's when I got to street and I went back to California Started working on the gong of farms because I realized, you know like big L. Cedar whatever, you know I was gonna get street struck, you know, you can't stay out there forever. You really can't right and That's when you know, that's when I looked at it and it's like man Okay, what What am I willing to sell? You know like what What is Charlie Crockett willing to sell and I think that that's stronger than playing it cool Right and letting somebody else figure it out for you, you know, that's where it That's where it it gets dangerous You know, and so it's like I know a lot of these guys in the business.

2:35:45They're like oh man, you know I'll pay attention to the business shit and all type of stuff man, but you're crazy for that because all like I don't care if it was Willie Nelson or James Brown They were poorer than you they both picked cotton and they learned the business because they had to So I'm giving that bullshit. We need to understand the business if you're in the business If you don't understand it, you'll be taking over by it. There's no doubt even if they got you on top Yeah, and then you have to have autonomy you have to have you have to this personal sense of self or you could avoid the influence You have to be able to just stick to your guns and that's the hard part right because then they dangle that carrot in front of you man That carrot is juicy Especially if you've been out in the street.

2:36:26It's right there. Oh, it's right there. It's right there. It's so juicy And a lot of people bite it a lot of people bite it and then they don't want it anymore And then they don't know how to be authentic Were you where you were you dealing with the like in the on that circuit It's not me and I know you're a comedian and you I know you also like got into the like dealing with the network TV shows and all that kind of stuff Did anybody ever fucking get you pretty good? Well, I got lucky in that I Got on television so early and I didn't want to be on television It wasn't something that I wanted yeah, but they offered me so much money to be on TV.

2:37:06I was like what? Okay, but I kept growing and doing my comedy at the comedy store And that was the most important thing that I just kept doing comedy and then the money was just like fuck you money So it's like because I had the fuck you money. I could kind of be myself Yeah, and you know, there was a lot of temptation like I remember the producers of fear factor like what are you doing like so because some of my comedy was just out Like you know, this gets you in trouble. There's people gonna me. This is not network television Commoners like well, then I won't do network television anymore Like once I had a certain amount of the bank.

2:37:39I was like All right, this is more money than I ever thought I'd ever have in my whole fucking life And I never thought I'd ever be wealthy and then all of a sudden I have money So if you have fuck you money and you don't say fuck you. What's the point? What's no one's gonna say fuck you then if you're gonna be a prisoner right to that money like you the like everybody says I have just afraid to be you afraid to be yourself like that's the only time you can really do it Is when you have you know, it's like the universe gives you this gift It would it the gift is the gift of freedom I mean you have to choose to either accept it and take it and and run with it or Be captured by it and then want more and more and more forever Forever and there's no end You know, we were talking about my friend Brian has this friend who's worth three billion dollars and he feels poor because his friends worth 80 You know crazy.

2:38:31I think how crazy that is like this guy's just constantly chasing to keep up with his friend who's worth 80 billion And that's how he's got free. Yep. That's how it works. You could get trapped and then you know Still keeping up with the Joneses. Yeah, you got a hit show. You want to hit movie you got a hit movie you want to be I wanted to have a Grammy. I want to start singing. Oh, you know, you start getting crazy Yeah, you start you just you chased that demon that demon of success that just lowers you deeper and deeper into hell And the next thing you know you you don't even know who you are no one knows who you are And if you don't know who you are They'll decide they'll decide who you are.

2:39:06They'll sell you. They'll sell you as a thing You know, you know what's crazy about music business the manager is in many cases the most powerful And the least regulated You know, I think that's what's wild about the music business. There's basically no regulation You know what I mean? Yeah, it's like I think that's what makes People say it's you know the Shadius business. I don't think it's a Shadius business But a guy told me that in New York actually when I got caught up in the Sony thing with the train robbers deal y 'all were showing on the screen A lot of guys were a lot of people were trying to sign us actually the guys at a &r Wuteng like DJ Scott free and Maddie C They were trying to get us into a deal Citizen cope had a deal on the table And all that shit and it was like um He was a woman that told me that he was like man fuck what you heard this the Shadius business Now I had come from a background of dealing with some pretty crazy shit in Texas, you know and with everything But even in that business like people that are if you're trying to play the stock market or whatever wall street It's a corrupt business and it is really fucked up, but it's highly regulated Come back.

2:40:27I can't compare to the music business. All right You know what I mean right right right right and you're dealing in like you're you know It's the stock exchange there. It's like it's like you're like it's like they're like dealing in culture Cultural power Cultural wars whatever you want to call it And there's no There's just very very little Regulation and a lot of power man. It's so much power and influence and the people that make the most money The people that don't even create the art because like you talking about like let's say you got it Oh boys got his bay. It's worth 80 billion or whatever still doesn't make you a They doesn't make you a star right?

2:41:05It's still not fame actually. That's what's crazy, you know I have a friend who's a billionaire who desperately wants to be famous. It's that's what I want Seems like a lot of them want to be Too because that's the thing they don't have right they have everything you can't exactly buy that Well you you kind of can Kind of but then it turns on you yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, it turns on you Yeah, to be the rich guy like then you know, I mean I see some of that stuff playing on me. I don't know nothing do that nothing Look what they did to Elon You know what that yeah, it's it's a harsh world because there's no sympathy for you You know you're the wealthy all a gark.

2:41:42Oh, and you want everybody looking at you right yeah, and then all the sudden They're looking at you Yeah, my mind she's got nervous. They got you under that. I have saw Ron They trying to find all your flaws and that's what everybody's got them. It's why I got this little bird right here Tell me tells me all the secrets. What is that? I didn't know what this was when I bought it right this is this horse, right? Oh Wow, and I just I found it in this place this found items placed about 10 years ago And I just liked it actually I just thought I thought it was native Right, I didn't realize it was like Egyptian and I've always liked this one because it felt like it was a little bit of both Um, and I I didn't know anything about it at first um But the reason I never take it off anymore is like when I started rec reading about like What it meant to the Egyptians was that it meant like safe passage as you journey through this world and Get ready to go on to the next one You know what I mean?

2:42:42I protect you against evil protect you um and You know and For health and happiness Hmm. They called it initiation. So it makes a lot of people tie it to Stupid shit like a you know illuminati and all that kind of stuff But I mean, it's just the It's just a thunderbird. Well, you know the eye of Horace is essentially the pineal gland Where the seed of the soul where the brain produces dimethyl tripdomine as the eye of Horace Have you ever seen the image of the eye of Horace next to the pineal gland? I'm not sure maybe I have but I'm I'm ignorant. I didn't The ancient what's pineal gland the pineal gland is a it's a gland that's in the center of your brain It's essentially the third eye in reptiles.

2:43:29It actually has a retina in the lens. Well, or a cornea in the lens and it's It's where they now they believe that DMT is actually produced by the entire brain It's also produced by the liver and the lungs But it's like the most spiritual of all the psychedelics and they believe that the Egyptians Had some sort of they you know, there's so little Understood about truly ancient Egypt, but look at that look what it looks like I mean the the eye of Horace essentially is it's a diagram of the pineal gland Which is kind of crazy. It's kind of crazy when you see it that way Wow because they they knew things and we don't know what they knew we don't understand how they built the pyramids We don't understand how old they are there's so much speculation about the true age of that And figuring out like how they honest energy and all that stuff We've known yeah, I mean there's this is group of scientists that believe that there's structures under the pyramids that go two kilometers deep into the earth And there's a lot of controversy about that, but these guys are they've Multiple readings of these things and they're pretty sure that they're accurate and they've been accurate with other things Like other temples that are underground that are 50 feet underground.

2:44:43They've mapped those things out with the same technology So there's a precedent to it These people knew things and we don't understand how they knew it or what they knew and we don't know if the people that lived in ancient Egypt that we consider Ancient Egypt like you know 2000 BC we don't know if they found those structures or if those people built those structures there's so much Weirdness with Egypt because the construction is so beyond anything else that exists anywhere on earth And especially when you're dealing with 4 ,500 plus years ago 4 ,500 years ago is the conventional estimations But there's a lot of these heretic archaeologists that think no it's this is a lot older than that I mean there's a king's list that goes back 30 ,000 years Yeah, I mean This it sounds nuts to people that want to have this conventional dating of the you know the dawn of civilization being about six thousand years ago But there's a lot of evidence that that's not accurate There's a lot and I think the most profound evidence is just the vastness of the Egyptian empire and what what they're just the vastness of the the construction The way they were able to bring these stones from 500 miles away through the mountains that are 80 tons How how do they cut them perfectly?

2:46:03How do they put them a hundred and twenty feet in the air and put them in the ceiling? Like what what the fuck was going on then what the fuck was going on with people were supposedly just getting out of hunter and gathering I mean, this is like the emergence like a couple thousand years earlier We're supposed to be like using stone tools and throwing them in animals And now you have these people that build this Inment structure that's perfectly aligned to true north south east and west has two million three hundred thousand stones in it What it's aligned with Orion stars the stars in the Orion belt like what maybe that maybe what happened was AI took them down to it might be way way back it might be it's back.

2:46:47I'm just saying right could be it could stuff could be I forget who said that but it's like I mean I'm all for I'm all for science, but in the end of the day You know no matter what we think we know it's still just like a you know, it's like a flame in a dark night You know, there's there's so much out there Beyond beyond what we can see. Yeah, so always I always kind of Thought that myself a minute of basic thing nowadays, you know, well as a kid You know a lot of people have had this thought, but it's like you know, I'm he's like looking up here in the stars and it's like If they're saying that the stars are basically infinite Then it's infinite possibility for other planets with life on it.

2:47:28Yeah, which basically is a certainty, right? It's basically certain it's a certainty. Yeah, it's basically certain day and the more we explore in the known universe The more we understand that it's much more likely that this is not an anomaly That there's many many planets out there Who knows maybe an infinite number that have life? So who knows what's going on? Well, we don't know how long ago they did this, you know, there's just so much speculation Well in the version of Egypt that we're taught about It was like just the latest stage of it. Oh, yeah, like I read where there was just there it went on for so many Thousand years and there was this whole evolution of those kingdoms.

2:48:07I'm talking about throughout Africa Yeah, that we all the sub -Saharan area all of that too That's where they believe that Atlantis was I mean, there's this thing called the reshot structure that there's again these Heretic archaeologists believe was the site of Atlantis it I mean the south Saharan the Saharan sub sub -Saharan Africa was a rich rainforest thousands of years ago There's whale bones they find whale bones in the Saharan desert. That's crazy. It's fucking madness man The history of earth is so confusing like Graham Hancock says it best. We're a species with amnesia You know and that's what's wild about all this We don't remember anything well.

2:48:48We definitely don't remember shit from 20 ,000 years ago It's all just speculation and you know and people have been in this form You know the form of homo sapiens now for 300 plus thousand years like who knows how long And who knows where they learn this stuff from I mean who knows if they learn this stuff from visitors We don't know we don't not I mean if we did get visited 20 ,000 30 ,000 years ago What evidence would be left? You know and are we being visited now? Well, we're about to find out because of this shit keeps popping off with Israel and Iran and they start going nuclear You know, that was the only the the the great hope of the people that really believe in aliens is that what they're watching over Else is to make sure we don't fuck everything up that we're so close to Emerging as a type one civilization.

2:49:36We're so close to getting out of this barbaric you know Territorial apes with thermonuclear weapons where we're so close To passing this stage that we're in right now as long as we don't fuck it up And who knows how many times people might have fucked it up in the past that mean that might be what we're looking at We're looking at ancient Egypt there might be the remnants and there's also natural disaster. Yeah, and that's all I meant by AI Yeah, I mean it could be our greatest natural disaster You get there and but I like your There's a It's a very positive outlook though. You're talking about getting to the next.

2:50:11Yeah, would you call it type would you say one civilization? Where does that mean? Okay, there's there's there's type one type two and type three civilizations and um I remember who was the one who formulated this It might have been say again um, Jamie pull it up so I don't fuck this up But it's essentially our here it is Type one civilization known as a planetary civilization defined by our Kardashev scale as the one that's harnessed and controls all available energy on its planet This includes utilizing all forms of energy from sources like solar, wind, geothermal and potentially even harnessing nuclear fusion A type one civilization is also characterized by a global technological advanced society with a high degree of interconnectedness and the ability to manage planetary scale resources and weather so We're on the way to that and AI in best -case scenario helps us achieve that And we're we're close.

2:51:13We're probably a lot closer to that than we think Type two civilization is stellar meaning we populate other planets type three is galactic we We populate the cosmos and we We explore the cosmos Wow, we're on our way to that and it's inevitable if we used to live in caves And now, you know, we fly in hypersonic jets. This is what's coming and it's whether or not we fuck it up along the way I was being me up man Who's probably end on that Charlie Crocker you man I appreciate you brother. Thank you very much for being here man. Pleasure's by the man Texas forever. Yeah, thanks Thank you, sir. Come on, man.

2:51:57Thank you. Thank you. All right Tell everybody where they can find all your shit Do you have a social media? Yeah, but you got to do all that. Okay. I mean it's Charlie Crocker Charlie with an EY like Charlie Pratt That's it. Crocker with two T's just like baby. That's all thing you know. That's it. All right. Thank you. Bye everybody You Jim there might be the remnants and there's also natural disaster. Yeah, and that's all I meant by AI Yeah, I mean it would be our greatest natural disaster you get there and but I like your There's a It's a very positive outlook though. We're talking about getting to the next yeah, would you call it type would you say one civilization?

2:52:49Where does that mean okay? There's there's there's type one type two and type three civilizations and um I remember who was the one who formulated this It might have been say again Jamie pulled up so I don't fuck this up but mom Jamie it's essentially Our here it is Type one civilization known as a planetary civilization defined By our Kardashev scale as the one that's harnessed and controls all available energy on its planet This includes utilizing all forms of energy from sources like solar, wind, geothermal and potentially even harnessing nuclear fusion A type one civilization is also characterized by a global technological advanced society with a high degree of interconnectedness and the ability to manage planetary scale resources and weather so We're on the way to that and AI in best case scenario helps us achieve that And we're we're close.

2:53:48We're probably a lot closer to that than we think Type two civilization is stellar meaning we populate other planets type three is galactic We we populate the cosmos and we we explore the cosmos Wow, we're on our way to that and this it's inevitable if we used to live in caves And now, you know, we fly in hypersonic jets. This is what's coming and it's whether or not we fuck it up along the way I was Be me up man Which probably end on that Charlie Crocker you man appreciate you brother. Thank you very much for being here man Pleasure's mind man Texas forever. Yeah, thank you sir. Thank you. Thank you.

2:54:33All right Tell everybody where they can finally shit Um, do you have a social media? Yeah, but you got to do all that okay I mean it's Charlie Crocket Charlie with an EY like Charlie Pratt That's it. Crocket with two T's just like baby. That's all thing you know. That's it. All right. Thank you. Bye everybody We we we we we we