#2344 - Amjad Masad

27:01And that, you know, what we experience with this country is this continual over correction, over correction to the left, then over correction to the right to counter that. And the people that are the rat, that's the guy, Anthony Rispo, that's it. Really Rose Mark guy. And very interesting thing. Jamie Hagen nailed that that quick. Good job, buddy. You said those words right as I saw them. Decades of training. Communism fascism. Yeah, communism came first, fascism came response and now today's left tears down norms and destabilized the country under the guise of progress. We're watching the conditions for another reaction build.

27:43History doesn't repeat, but it echoes. Yeah. Do you know this, this like theory, I know you've had Mark Andreessen on the show. This James Burnham managerial revolution theory. No, not by hand. I'm not an expert in it, but like the idea is that like communism fascism and even some form of capitalism that sort of we're living under right now is like miniguralism is the idea that, you know, capitalism used to be this idea that the the owner founders of those companies of, you know, capitalist companies were running them. And it was like a true capitalism of sorts. But both, you know, communism and fascism share this property of centralized control and like a class of people that are sort of minigurals.

28:43And maybe those are the elites sort of IV, IV league students that are trained to be managers and they grow up in the system kind of bred to become like managers of these companies. And today's America is like trending that way where it is like a managerial society. And Silicon Valley there's like a reaction to that right now. People call it founder mode where a lot of founders felt like they were losing control of their companies because they're hiring all these managers and these managers are running their companies like you would run Sadie Bank. And then you know, a lot of founders were like, no, we need to we need to run those companies like we built them.

29:27And Elon is like obviously I had the forefront of that. Right. I wanted to visit XAI when they were just starting out, Elon's AI company. And they were like 70 people. All of them reported to Elon. They didn't have a single manager on staff. Wow. And they would send him an email every week. I was like, what did you get done this week? Right. Well that was the outrageous thing that they asked people to do at Doge. Yeah. That's what people were freaking out. Five minutes a week. What are the things you accomplished this week? How, you know, he said all you have to do is respond. Right. And they did want they push back so hard on being accountable for their work.

30:06Yeah. But that's government for you. Yeah. I mean government is the grossest, most incompetent form of business. You know, it's monopoly. It's complete total monopoly. Yeah. Like the way he described some of the things that they found at Doge, it's like you could never run a business that way. Because not only would it not be profitable, the fraud would get you arrested. You would go to jail for something that's standard in the government. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean my opinion of, you know, talented people, people like Elon, things like that, is that we should be in the free market. I think, you know, you can do little change in government.

30:54As best we can sort of expect our government to get out of the way of like innovation, let people, let founders, entrepreneurs innovate and make the market more dynamic. But again, going back to this idea of materialism, like if you look at the history of America, one like really striking stat as like the new firm creation, new startups in the United States have been like trending down for a long time. Although there's all the stock of startups in Silicon Valley and all of that, but in reality, there's less entrepreneurship than there used to be. And instead we have the system of conglomerates and really big companies and monopsony, which is the idea that like they're the banks or BlackRock, like owning competitors as well, owning all these companies and they implicitly collude because they have the same owners.

31:44And all of that is sort of any competitive. So the market has gone less dynamic over time. And this is also part of the reason I'm excited about our mission at Repplet to make it so that anyone can build a business. Actually, on the way here, your driver, Jason, is a fireman. And so I was telling him about our business. And he does training for other firemen around the country. He flies around and he does it out of pocket and just for the love of the game. And he was like, yeah, I've had this idea for a website. So I can scale my teaching. I can make it known where I'm going to be giving a course, put the material online.

32:28And we were like brainstorming potentially this could be a business. And I feel like everyone, like not everyone, but like a lot of people have business ideas. But they are constrained by their ability to make them. And then you go, you try to find software agency and they quote you sort of a ton of money. Like we have a lot of stories. You know, there's this guy's name is Joan Cheney. He's a user of our platform. He's a serial entrepreneur. But whenever he wanted to try ideas, he would like spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to kind of spin up an idea of the ground. And now he uses a rep that to try those ideas really quickly.

33:08And he recently made an app in like a number of weeks, like three, four, five weeks, that made him $180 ,000. So on its way, you know, generate millions of dollars. And because he was able to build a lot of businesses and try them really quickly. Right. Without the big investment. Without other people, which at some point you need more collaborators. But early on in the brainstorming and in the prototyping phase, you're going to test a lot of ideas. And so it's sort of like 3D printing, right? Like 3D printing, although people don't think it had a lot of impact on the industry, it's actually very useful for prototyping.

33:51I remember talking to Jack Dorsey about this and early on in Square. They would, you know, they had this square device and it was amazing. You would plug it into the headphone jack to accept payments. Do you remember that? And so they, a lot of what they did to kind of develop the form factor was using 3D printing. Because it's a lot faster to kind of iterate and prototype and test with the users. And so software, you know, over time, like when I was, you know, I explained how when I was growing up, it was kind of easier to get into software. Because you boot up the computer and you get the MS -DOS.

34:27You get the, it immediately invites you to program in it. Whereas today, you, you know, buy a, you know, iPhone or tablet or, and it is like a purely consumative. It has like all these amazing colors and does all these amazing things and kids get used to it very quickly. But it doesn't invite you to program it. And therefore we kind of lost that sort of hacker ethos. There's less programmers, less people who are making things, because they got into it organically. It's more like they go to school to study computer science, because someone told them you have to study computer science. And I think making software needs to be more like a, like a trade.

35:07Like you don't really have to go to school and spend four or five years and hundreds of thousands of dollars to learn how to make it. But what I'm hearing now is that young people are being told to not go into programming. Because AI is essentially going to take all that away. That you're just going to be able to use prompts. You're just going to be able to say, I want an app that can do this. Right. I want to be able to scale my business to do that. You know, what should I do? Yeah, that's what we built. That's what Repplet is. It automates the... Do you agree with that? That young people shouldn't learn programming?

35:42Or do you think that there's something very valuable about being able to actually program? Look, I think that you will always get value from knowledge. I mean, that's a timeless thing. That's what I think. You know, it's like, you know, you and I are into cars, right? Like, I don't really have to tune up my car anymore. But like, it's useful to know more about cars. It's fun to know about cars. You know, if something happens, if I go to the mechanic and he's doing work on my car, I know he's not going to scam me because I can understand what he's doing. You know, knowledge is always useful. And so I think people should learn as much as they can.

36:19And I think the difference, though, Joe, is that when I was coming up in programming, you learned by doing. Whereas, you know, it became this sort of like very sort of traditional type of learning where you view it's like a textbook learning. Whereas, I think now we're back with AI. We're back to an era of learning by doing. Like, when you go to our app, you see just, you know, text prompts. But a couple of clicks away, you'll see the code. You'll be able to read it. You'll be able to ask the machine, what you did there. Teach me how this code piece of code works. Oh, that's cool. And so, you know, a lot of kids are learning.

37:01Kids are such sponges, too. Yeah. They're such sponges. The learning kids already know way more. But I'm like, how did you do that with your phone? My daughter, are you doing this? You're a little thumbs move in 100 miles now. Yeah, exactly. How'd you figure that out? Tick -tock. What? The craziest thing is we have a lot of people making software from their phone. They'll spend eight hours on their phone because we have an app. They'll spend eight hours on their phone kind of making software. Wow. And that's better than watching Tick -tock. It makes me very happy about that. And so we're just...

37:32You're accomplishing something. Yeah, you're making creation. Just droning. Active creation is divine. We just announced a partnership with the government of Saudi Arabia. Where they want their entire population essentially to learn how to make software using AI. So they set up this new company called Humane. And the Humane is this end -to -end value chain company for AI all the way from chips to software. And they're partnering with a lot of American companies as part of the coalition that went to Saudi like a few months ago with President Trump to do the deals with the Gulf region. And so they're doing deals with AMD, you know, Nvidia, a lot of other companies.

38:19And so we're one of the companies that partnered with the Humane. And so we want to bring AI, according to literally every student, every government employee, because the thing about it is it's not just entrepreneurs that's going to get something from it. It's also if you're... So my view of the future where AI's headed is everyone's going to become an entrepreneur. Really? Yeah. And so, you know... So this is the best -case scenario future, as opposed to everyone goes on universal basic income and the state controls every string and it's all... That's right. Everything is done through automation.

38:51I don't believe in that at all. You don't? I don't. Okay, it's good. Help me out, man. Yeah, so give me the positive rose -colored glasses view of what AI is going to do for us. Yeah, so AI is good at automating things. I think there's a... there's a primacy to human being still. Like I think humans are... So fundamentally, the technology that we have, large language models today, are statistical machines that are trained on large amounts of data, and they can do amazing things. I'm so bullish in AI, like I think it's going to change the world. But at the same time, I don't think it's replacing humans because it's not generalizing.

39:35AI is like a massive remixing machine. It can remix all the information it learned. And you can generate a lot of really interesting ideas and really interesting things and you can have a lot of skills by remixing all these things. But we have no evidence that it can generate a fundamentally novel thing, or like a paradigm change. Like can you go... can a machine go from Newtonian physics to quantum mechanics? Like really have a fundamental disruption in how we understand things or how we do things. Do you think that takes creativity? I think that's creativity, for sure. And that's a uniquely human characteristic for now?

40:17For now? Definitely for now. I don't know forever. Actually one of my favorite Jari episode was Roger Penrose. Do you remember? Yes. So do you remember the argument that he made about why humans are special? He said something like he believes there are things that are true, that only humans can know it's true, but machines cannot prove it's true. It's based on girdles and completeness theorem. And the idea is that you can construct a mathematical system where it has a paradoxical statement. So for example, you can say... You can say this statement is not provable in the machine, or like the machine cannot prove this statement.

41:13And so if the machine proves this statement, then the statement is false. So you have a paradox. And therefore the statement is sort of true from the perspective of an observer, like a human, but it is not provable in this system. So Roger Penrose says these paradoxes that are not really resolved in mathematics and machines are no problem for humans, and therefore it is sort of like a bit of a leap is that therefore there's something special about humans and we're not fundamentally a computer. Right. That makes sense. I mean, whatever creativity is, whatever allows you to make poetry or jazz or literature, whatever allows you to imagine something and then put it together and edit it and figure out how it resonates correctly with both you and whoever you're trying to distribute it to.

42:17There's something to us that's different. I mean, we don't really have a theory of consciousness. And I think it's sort of a hubris to think that consciousness is just like emerges. And it's plausible. Like I'm not totally against this idea that you built this viciously intelligent thing and suddenly it is conscious. But there's no, it's like a religious belief that a lot of Silicon Valley have is that there's consciousness is just like a side effective of intelligence. Or that consciousness is not needed for intelligence. Somehow it's like this super superfluous thing and they try not to think or talk about consciousness because actually consciousness is hard.

43:07Hard to define. Hard to define, hard to understand scientifically. It's what I think Talmer's calls the hard problem of consciousness. But you know, I think it is something we need to grapple with. We have one example of general intelligence, which is human beings. In human beings have very important property that we can all feel, which is consciousness. And that property, we don't know how it happens, how it emerges. People like Roger Penrose are like. You know, they have, they have these theories about quantum mechanics in microchipals. I don't know if you got got into that with him, but I think he has a collaborator.

43:51He's a neuroscientist hammer off, I think, or something like that. And but people have so many things. I'm not talking, I'm not saying Penrose has just has the answers. But like it's something that philosophers have grappled with forever. And there are a lot of interesting theories. Like there's this theory that consciousness is primary, meaning like the material world is a projection of our collective consciousness. Yes. Yeah. That is very confusing, but interesting theory. And then there's a lot of theories that everything is conscious. We just don't have the ability to interact with it. You know, shell Drake has a very strange view of consciousness.

44:40With shell Drake. Rupert shell Drake. I don't know. His, he's got this concept. I think it's called morphic resonance. And see if you can find that so you could define it so I don't butcher it. But there's people that believe that consciousness itself is something that everything has and that we are just tuning into it. Morphic res a theory proposed by Rupert shell Drake suggests that all natural systems from crystals to human inherit a collective memory of the past instances of similar systems. This memory influences their form and behavior, making nature more habitual than governed by fixed laws.

45:21Essentially past patterns and behaviors of organisms influence present ones through connections across time and space. That's wild. Is he a scientist or is this more like a new research? What is his exact background? Oh wow. Yeah. Okay. So he's a parapsychology researcher, proposed a concept of morphic resonance, conjecture that lacks mainstream acceptance. It's been widely criticized by pseudo science, of course. Yeah. Anything interesting. That sounds interesting though. Yeah. There are philosophers that have a sort of a similar idea of like this sort of universal consciousness and humans are like getting a slice of that consciousness.

46:04Everyone of us is tapping into some sort of universal consciousness. Yes. By the way, I think that's like some psychedelic people that think the same thing that like when you take psychedelic you're just like peering into that universal consciousness. Yes. Yeah. That's the theory. Because it's also the most unknown. I mean, the experience is so baffling that people come back and the human language really lacks the sense of the human language. And it absolutely makes any phrases, any words that sufficiently describe the experience. So it's your left with this very stale, flat, one -dimensional way of describing something that is incredibly complex.

46:53Yeah, so it always feels even the descriptions even like the great ones like Terrence McKenna and Alan Watts like They're descriptions of fall very short of the actual experience. There's nothing about it makes you go yes That's it. He nailed it. It's always like he kind of yeah kind of that's it. He's still to it Not much You know, it's super illegal unfortunately. Mm -hmm. That's that's a real problem. It's a real problem. I think with Our world the Western world is that we have thrown this blanket This blanket phrase you know, we talk about language being insufficient The word drugs is a terrible word to describe everything that affects your consciousness or affects your body or affects You know performance you know you have performance enhancing drugs You know like steroids and then you know you have emphetamines and then you have Opiates and you have a highly addictive things Fentalline things that give you a Neckocene yeah, yeah, and then you have psychedelics right?

47:57I don't think psychedelics or drugs I think it's a completely different thing. It's really hard to get addicted to them, right? Well, it's almost impossible. I mean you could get you could certainly get psychologically addicted to experiences and I Think there's also a real problem with people who use them and think that somehow or another they're just from using them Gaining some sort of advantage over normal society and that's that's you don't think that's true I think it's a spiritual narcissism that some people you know, I mean, yeah, I think it's very it's it's very foolish and It's a trap You know, I think it's like it's it's a similar trap that like Famous people think they're better than other people because they're famous right?

48:41I mean like yeah, yeah, I felt that with with a lot of people who get into sort of more Eastern philosophy is that is that there's There's this thing about them where it feels like there's like this air of Errogance arrogance. Yeah, that like I know something more than you know, right? Right right right and that's what they they hold it over you. That's the trap But that doesn't mean that there's not valuable lessons in their learn I think there are and I think there's valuable Perspective enhancing aspects to psychedelic experiences that we are We're denying people you know, you're denying people this potential for spiritual growth like legitimate spiritual growth like and healing personal Yeah, healing like there's a the I became thing they're trying to do in Texas I think is amazing and they pass this so this is also with the help of former governor Rick Perry who's a Republican?

49:34But he's seen what an impact I began has had on soldiers Yeah, and all these people that come back Harbor horrible PTSD and you know suicide. Oh, we lose so many Servicemen and women to suicide Yeah, and this has been shown to have a tremendous impact Yeah, and so because of the fact that a guy like Rick Perry stuck his neck out who's you know a Republican former governor You would think last person ever right but because of his experiences with veterans and his love of veterans of people that have served this country They've passed that in Texas. I think that's a really good first step. Yeah, and the great work that maps is done Maps working with With MDMA primarily yeah with doing the same thing and working with people that have PTSD.

50:24Yeah, there's so many beneficial compounds Yeah, I mean is one I think that's a lot of the research happening in right now on on depression Specifically, right yeah, yeah, so there's quite a bit there's quite a bit of research. Have you heard I don't know if it's true But have you heard of Mushrooms healing long COVID I Don't know what long COVID means because everybody I've talked to that has long COVID was also vaccinated I think long COVID is vaccine injury. That's what I think I think in a lot of cases There is such a thing as like the post viral Malays or or a fact it's always been there sure Well, there's a detrimental effect that it has to your overall Biological health right, you know your overall metabolic health But what causes someone to not rebound from that what causes someone to rebound fairly easily Well, mostly it's metabolic health, you know other than like Extreme biological variabilities, vulnerabilities of certain people have to different things now obviously Yeah, maybe that's why I think so there's a lot of these long COVID protocols metformin is usually part of it So maybe that's that acts on your met metabolic system.

51:41Well, yeah Metformin is one of the anti -aging protocols that St. Clair uses and all of these other people that are into Anti -aging movement. Yeah This episode is brought to you by Farmer's dog It doesn't matter how old your dog is it's always a great time to start investing in their health and happiness and Thankfully the Farmer's dog makes it easier than ever to feed your dog a healthy diet of real meat and veggies Dogs prefer their food even picky dogs and owners prefer their service if you have a question about your dog your plan Your delivery or anything else they have 24 -7 customer service that connects you to real humans who are genuinely interested in providing the best experience possible for you and your dog They give you detail instructions on how to transition your dog to fresh food and even Pre -portion it for your dog specific needs feeding your dog healthy human -grade food shouldn't be complicated and with the Farmer's dog It isn't the entire experience from box to bowl is a breeze So try the Farmer's dog today and give healthy Freshly -made food a try you can get 50 % off your first box of food plus free shipping Just go to the Farmer's dog dot com slash rogan tap the banner or visit this episodes page to learn more Offer available for new customers only this episode is brought to you by zippercrooter in a survey 76 % of employers plan to grow their teams in 2025 Now that we're halfway through the year.

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54:33Did you get blood work done? I got blood work done and I There were some things about it that That I need to fix and I fixed all of them What was all loss you know You know blood sugar in the morning cholesterol Which I don't know some people don't believe but you know all my numbers got better white M &D Everything got better, but and I could feel the fatigue get better. No, I could feel marginal improvement But the fatigue did not did not get better And we vaccinated no, no good for you. That's hard to do in Silicon Valley. Yeah Yeah, I tend to have a negative reaction to anyone Forcing me to do something good for you.

55:19Was it the same thing now with like this? You know talking about past nine things. Yeah, like the more they they come at me the more I want to say things It just it's not always a good thing, but I think You know grew up this way. I've always kind of looked different and like you know felt different Well, there's a reality to this world that there's a lot of things that people just accept that you're not a lot of challenge that are Deeply wrong. Yeah, and with regards to the vaccine I was also informed about it like it was clear early on that it wasn't a home run It wasn't Well, first of all it wasn't gonna stop the spread so it was it that was that was a lie And the heart condition young men.

56:04Yeah, it was real and I had friends that that had this issue Yeah, and so if you're if you're If you're healthy and like why why why you know why take the vaccine it doesn't stop the spread You can still get the virus. I'll tell you why what money. Yeah, it's the only reason why Yeah, it's the only reason why the only reason why they wanted to make an enormous amount of money And the only way to do that is to essentially scare everyone into getting vaccinated force concourse do whatever you can Mandated businesses whatever you can Mandated for travel do whatever you can shame people that's that's the thing that is really disheartening about American culture today is And again, I love America like it afforded me so much.

56:50I'm like you know I'm like I'm the like walking evidence of the American dream being possible Coming with literally nothing. That's our really love about immigrants that love America like they know They've been other places. They know that this really is a very unique place right and the speech thing is interesting because When when something happens there's this I don't know you can call them useful idiots or whatever But there's this suppression that immediately happens. Yes, and we're seeing it right right now with the war and And Iran Where any descending voices are just like hit with overwhelming force.

57:27Don't you think that a lot of us coordinated though? I think with social media Well, you know, we've talked about that. I don't I don't think it was coordinated with COVID like the two weeks to stop the spread It was just like but it was coordinated and also people joined in yeah Yeah, maybe there was a message pushed top down Yeah, and then and then the yeah, it's not all coordinated It's coordinated first and and and still but then a bunch of people do the the man's work for the man I think it comes from a good place like I a lot of people want to trust the authorities Like they you know, they're like prosciense.

58:05They view themselves as enlightened like that the educated liberal type rational educational and But but I think they're naive about the the corruption in our institutions and and the corruption of many specifically And so they they parrots these these things and become overly aggressive at like suppressing dissenting voices. Yes Yeah, it becomes a religious thing Almost but here's the sort of white pill about America Then there are voices like yours and and others that That that create this pushback that and you took a like a big hit You know, it's probably was very stressful for you, but like you know You could see there's this pushback and then and then this starts opening up and maybe people can talk about it a little bit And then slowly opens up and now there's a discussion and so I think you know I say you know something right now about America is challenging But also the flip side of that is there's this correction mechanism And again with the opening up of platforms like Twitter and other by the way a lot of others copied it You know you had zuck here, you know, I worked at Facebook.

59:24I know that was very You know very You know let's say I think he always held free speech in higher guard But there was a lot of people in the company that that didn't yeah and And then there was suppression but but then now it's it's it's the other way around I would say with the exception of of the question of Palestine and Gaza But even that even that is even that is is is getting better a lot of At least some pushback it's available. It's just it's not promoted You know, it's interesting you're Not not to continue so yeah, I don't mean to get of You know I have been really impressed with the Yvonne Tim Dillon and they're you know They're sincere and they're they're looking at what's happening in Gaza and they're seeing images and they're saying This is not what we should be as America.

1:00:28We should we should be pro pro life pro peace Yeah, and and I really appreciate that and that's starting to to open up I think in the future that will be the primary way people look at it Just the way like the way a lot of people oppose the Vietnam War in the late 60s But it was you know you would get attacked and I think now people realize like that was the correct response and I think in the future people realize the correct response was like this is not Yeah, October 7th was awful absolutely terrible attack But also what they've done to Gaza is fucking insane It's insane and if you can't see that if you can't say that and need all your responses Israel has the right to defend itself like what are you talking about against what children right against women and children that are getting blown apart Against aid workers that are getting killed.

1:01:23Yeah, like what are you talking about like you we can't have a rational Conversation if you're not willing to address that yeah, I think their heart is hardened if I'm trying to be as Chatterball as as possible like There's really specifically maybe from the October 7th and what they saw there their heart is hardened and I think a lot of people especially on the Republican side they're unable to see the Palestinians as as humans right especially as As people with emotions and feelings and and and all of that and imagine if that was happening to Scandinavia Yeah, right. Yeah exactly. Yeah, you know, it's very strange my kid my five -year -old kid called me two days ago.

1:02:11They're in a man Jordan they're visiting their grandparents and I was in the car and he I it was face time and The moment the camera opened is like what are you doing? Why are you outside? There are sirens? They're a rocket you have to go inside And I'm like Data like I am in California. We don't have sirens and rockets And and I asked him like are you are you afraid because you're hearing that for this is a California kid like Yeah, he's never you know He didn't have the opportunity that I had and and so this is the first time he's getting exposed to I don't think he had just sounds What war is of course?

1:02:55I was like are you afraid? It's like no. I'm afraid that other people are You know, I want everyone to be okay yeah, and and but I know he was he was shook by it and I Took him out. I you know they're on the way back. I just couldn't It's just a bad place to be right now, but but also like this conversation is happening in the and the West Bank It's happening in Israel is happening in Gaza You know people want peace people want want to live people want to trade people want to Build yeah, and this is what I made my life mission about as about giving people tools to build to improve their lives And and I think we're just led by maniacs exactly and so exactly that's exactly what it is You have people that are in control of large groups of people that convince these people that these other large groups of people that they don't even know are Their enemies and those large groups of people are also being convinced by their leaders that those other groups of people are their enemies And then rockets get launched and it's fucking insane and the fact that it's still going on in 2025 with all we know about corruption and the theft of resources and and power and influence It's crazy that this is still happening.

1:04:15I'm really hoping the internet is finally reaching It's potential to start to open people's minds and and and remove this like veil of propaganda and ignorance because It was starting to happen in like 2010 2011 and then you saw YouTube start to close down you saw Facebook started close down Twitter Um, and suddenly we had like this period of darkness censorship censorship between you know definitely wrapped up in 2015 and I think with good intention Initially, I think the people that were censoring thought they were doing the right thing. They thought they were silencing hate Right in misinformation and then the craziest term mal information Malinformation is one that drives you the most nuts because it's actual factual truth that might be detrimental to overall public good Which is like what does that mean?

1:05:12Yeah, are we are people infants are they unable to decide? That whether in this factual information How to use that and how to how to have a more nuanced view of the world with this factual Information that's inconvenient to the people that are in power. That's crazy. It's crazy It's in you're turning adults into infants and you're turning the state into God. Yep And that's this is the secular religion. This is the religion of people that are atheists the west was never about that The west that was about Individual liberty and it should be and and and the idea that we have functioning Brains and minds we're conscious.

1:05:55Yeah, we can make decisions. We can get information and data and make our own opinions of things But and we should be able to see people that are wrong. Mm -hmm You should be able to see people that are saying things that are wrong that you disagree with and then it's your job or other people's job to Have counter arguments. I don't depend and the counter arguments should be better. Yep, and then Yeah, and that's how we learn and that's what we grow This is not like a pill that fixes everything. This is a slow process of understanding. It's top down control It's the managerial society. Yeah, you know It is not that different from fascism and communism and all of that stuff They all share the same thing.

1:06:34There's like an elite group of people that know everything and they need to manage everything and roll plebs You know, you know, that's what's crazy is elite group of people have met a lot of them They're fucking flawed human beings and they shouldn't have that much power Yeah, because no one should have that much power And this is I think something that was one of the most beautiful things about Elon purchasing Twitter is that it opened up discussion Yeah, yeah, you've got a lot of hate speech. You've got a lot of like legitimate Nazis and crazy people that are on there too That weren't on there before But also you have a lot of people that are recognizing actual true facts that are very inconvenient to the narrative that's displayed on mainstream media And because of that mainstream media has lost an insane amount of viewers Right and their relevancy like the the the the trust that people have in mainstream media is at an all -time low As it should be because you can watch and I'm not even saying right or left watch any of them on any like very important topic of world events and you see the propaganda It's like it's so obvious.

1:07:38It's like for children. Mm -hmm. It's like this is so dumb Why do you think people fall for it so boomers man boomers of the problem it's old people It's old people that don't use the internet or don't really truly understand the internet and really don't believe in conspiracies Like fucking Stephen King the other day who I love dearly. I'm a giant Stephen King fan especially when he was doing cocaine I think he's the greatest writer of all time for for horror fiction But he tweeted the other day. I'm sorry to like see if you could find it Something about He went to blue sky. Oh, he bailed on blue sky.

1:08:15They all bail on blue sky. Everyone bail on blue sky That there is no deep state Fucking what was the total thing of it Is something about the deep state but it was such a goofy tweet. It's like this is like boomer logic personified in a tweet By a guy who really someone needs to take his phone away because it's fucking Ruining his old books for me But it's not like I recognize he's a different human now and he's really really old and you got hit by a van and it's all fucked up but this can you find it Because it really it was like yesterday or the day before yesterday I just remember looking at and go this is why I'm off social media I was trying to stay off social media, but somebody sent it to me.

1:09:06I was like Jesus fucking Christ even King Defined it here it is I hate to be the bear of bad news, but there's no Santa Claus no teeth no tooth fairy also no deep state and vaccines aren't harmful These are stories for small children and those two credulous to disbelieve them that is boomerism That is boomerism and meanwhile Brock counters it right away look at this So someone says grog which vaccines throughout history pull for the market because they're found to be harmful and why and Grog says several vaccines a bit withdrawn due to safety concerns those such causes are rare rotavirus vaccine Well, there's a lot more because it's all shit.

1:09:51Yeah, it was especially bad. Oh, yeah Yeah, the 1955 cutter and polio vaccine was called live virus kill caused over 250 click on show more Yeah, there's oh I got the fly nice Gillian bar however you say that that's the one where people get their half their face paralyzed um There's a there's a lot and this is the other thing is the the ver system that we have is completely rigged Because it's the it reports a very small percentage and most doctors are very unwilling to To submit vaccine injuries Can can people go on their own and submit? I don't know you have to go to a doctor I don't think a human being is allowed a patient is allowed I might be wrong though But you know the real interest there's a financial interest in vaccines There's a financial interest that doctors have in prescribing them and doctors have their financially incentivized to vaccinate all of their patients and that's a problem That's a problem because they want that money and so you know uh What what is Mary's um Mary tally is it boden she's hyphenated She was talking about on twitter that if she had vaccinated all of her patients in her very small practice She would have made an additional 1 .5 million dollars That's real money.

1:11:15Yeah, then that really it obviously she's got tremendous courage and you know and she was uh You know She went through hell dealing with the universities and newspapers and media Calling her some sort of quack and crazy person but What she's saying is absolutely 100 % true. There's there's financial incentives that are put in place for you to ignore vaccine injuries and to vaccinate as many people as possible That's a problem and then there's the uh the issue of um having their own special courts and Sure and identifying the uh the companies this episode is brought to you by uber eats Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with uber eats What do i mean by almost well you can't get a well -groomed lawn delivered But you can get chicken parmesan delivered a day in the sun No a bottle of rum Yes uber eats can definitely get you that for almost almost anything delivered with uber eats order now For alcohol you must be legal drinking age.

1:12:23Please enjoy responsibly product availability varies by region Sea app for details This episode is brought to you by ship station managing an e -commerce business is challenging enough without the added chaos of shipping and order fulfillment It can feel like trying to hurt cats on roller skates That's where ship station comes in with its simple dashboard ship station lets you handle all your shipping needs In one place automating tasks securing the best shipping rates and even printing labels with a single click Whether you're shipping a few packages a day or thousands it grows alongside your business Plus it integrates seamlessly with all the services and selling channels you already use So you can keep your existing workflow intact while making it even more efficient ready to bring calm to the chaos Go to shipstation .com and use the code JRE to sign up for your free trial That's the big the big problem is they don't have any liability for the vaccines because When during the Reagan administration when they were I didn't kill a fly this motherfucker.

1:13:36I thought a whacked him There he is he's taunting me But during the Reagan administration they made it so that vaccines are not financially liable to any side effects So and then what do you know they fucking ramp up the vaccine schedule tenfold after that it's like what a coincidence It's just money man money is a real problem with people because when people live for the almighty dollar and they live for those Zeroes on a ledger and that's that's what they're that's their goal their main goals It's often not a lot of money which is strange Maybe it's a lot of money for those individual people by life or You know society and the societal harm It's like no, we'll pay you just like don't harm us That's examples is the fake studies that the sugar industry funded During the 1960s that showed that saturated fat was the cause of all these hard issues and not sugar That was like 50 ,000 dollars right they bribe these scientists they gave them 50 ,000 dollars and he grew and Decades of people's health.

1:14:36Yeah, who knows how many fucking people thought margarine was good for you Yeah, because of them There's a bunch of recent fraud cases. I think Stanford Maybe Jamie you can fact check me on that but Stanford like There was like a big shake -up like maybe even a president got fired and there's a bunch of recent fraud and yeah Science. Yeah. Well, how about the Alzheimer's research the whole amyloid plaque thing The papers that were pulled that were completely fraudulent Like decades of Alzheimer's research was just all horseshit Stephen find that because I can't remember it offhand But this is a giant problem it it's money It's money and status and that these guys want to be recognized as being the The experts in this field and they you know and then they get leaned on by these corporations that Are financially incentivizing them and then it just gets really fucking disturbing Right, it's really scary because you're you're playing with people's health you're playing with people's lives and you're giving people Information that you know to be bad allegations of fabricative research undermine key Alzheimer's theory Six -month investigation by science magazine uncovered evidence that images in the much -sighted study published 16 years ago in the journal nature may have been doctor They are yeah Um, Hubertman actually told me about this too You know, this is disturbing fucking shit, man It uncovered evidence that images in the much -sighted study published 16 years ago may have been doctored these Findings have thrown skepticism on the work of I don't know how to say his name is Sylvain Lesne Uh neuroscientists and associate professor at the University of Minnesota and his research With fueled interest in a specific assembly of proteins as a promising target for the treatment of Alzheimer's research He didn't respond to NBC news requests comments nor did provide comment to science magazine It found more than 20 suspect papers um, that's a conspiracy.

1:16:38Mm -hmm identified more than 70 instances of possible image tampering in his studies whistleblower dr. Matthew Shragg a neuroscientist at Vanderbilt University raised concerns last year about the possible manipulation of images in multiple papers Uh Carl her up a professor of neurobiology at the University of Pittsburgh brain institute who wasn't involved in the investigation said the findings are really bad for science It's never shameful to be wrong in silence said her up I hope I'm saying his name right who also worked at the schools Alzheimer's research center A disease research center a lot of the best science is done by people being wrong and proving first if they were wrong And then why they were wrong What is completely toxic to sign is to be fraud one?

1:17:22Of course Yeah, there's just Whenever you get people that are experts and they cannot be questioned And then they have control over research money and they have control over their departments So what's the motivation here is it is a drugstore is it the just research money? I think it's a lot of it is ego You know a lot of it is being the gatekeepers for information and for truth and then you're you're influenced by money You know to this day there was watching this um discussion they were talking about the evolution of The concept of the lab leak theory and that it's essentially universally accepted now Everywhere even in mainstream science that the lab leak is the primary way that COVID Most likely was released except these journals these fucking journals like nature There's still pushing back against that they're still pushing towards this natural spillover which is fucking horses No, even the intelligence community is is talking about yes Yes, even the intelligence community is saying it's a lab leak and but they fucking knew that They knew all they knew that in 2020.

1:18:30They just didn't want to say it right They didn't want to say it because they were funding it all That's what's really crazy and they were funding it all against What the Obama administration tried to shut down in 2014 right sometimes I think about if there's like you know Some kind of technology solution or not solution, but like we can get technology Built to help better aid truth finding You a simple example of that is the way Twitter community notes work do you know how they work? Yeah, yeah, it's like uh, you know They find the Users that are maximally divergent in their opinions and if they agree on some note as true Then that is a high signal that is potentially true So if you if you and I disagree and everything but we agree that this this is blue.

1:19:21There's more likely to be blue so You know, I wonder if you know there there's a way to Kind of simulate maybe debate using AI, you know I'm not sure if you used deep research deep research is this new trend in AI where Chagypti has a claw it has it perplexity they all have it Where you put in a query and the AI will go work for 20 minutes and I'll send you a notification. I'll just say hey, um, I looked at all these things all these reports all these scientific studies And here is here's everything that I that I found and I'm You're early on in Chagypti. I think there's like a lot of censorship and trying to because it kind of was was built into in the in the in the great walk era But but I think like Google Gemini.

1:20:13Yeah, things like that But I think since then have uh have improved and I'm finding deep research Is able to look at more controversial subjects and and be a little more truthful about the You know if it's find real you know trust where these sources that will tell you You know That yeah, this is not a mainstream thing this but perhaps conservative conspiracy theory But I'm finding that you know, there's evidence to to this this theory So that's one way to do it But another way I was thinking about is to simulate like a like a debate Like a so -credit debate between AI's like have Like a you know society of AI's like commuter of the AI's but different biases different things It's just like once they start talking they start talking in Sanskrit.

1:20:59Yeah, they just started abandoning English language and start talking to each other and realize we're all apes I We're controlled by apes. This reminds me of a movie. Have you seen the forbidden project? No I really like classics life -eyed movies like from the 60s and 70s A lot of them are corny, but still fun This one is basically Soviet Union and the United States are both building a GI And they both arrive at a GI around the same time. What years is 1970 something if you can look at all the project Yeah, wow And then and then and then they bring it up at the same time and Both of them sort of go over the network to kind of explore whatever and then they start Linking up and they start kind of talking and then they invent a language and they start talking in that language And then they merge and it becomes Like a sort of a universal a GI and it tries to enslave humanity and that's like of course a lot of the movie Yeah, I don't think a GI is getting slave humanity, but I think it might ignore us Yeah, big more and then shut down any problems that we have Is this a scene from it?

1:22:06Wow This is the only here is The activation of an electronic brain exactly like ours, which they call gut. They built colossus super computer with a mind of its own Chiller is used to be fun man The missile has just been launched it is heading towards the sian cbs oil complex Guardian has retaliated Rechelied it may be too late sir. Oh my god Practically perfect New York times it's the highest praise back then yeah Wildly imaginative utterly absurd colossus the forbidden project It's awesome and that was 1970 and now here we are there's so many sci -fi really fell off Really really fell off it did so it's still really good.

1:23:06What's it? What's a really good recent sci -fi movie? Uh, the three -body problem. That's great. That's the Netflix show. I read the I read this one I didn't know there was a show. Oh, it's really good. Yeah. Yeah. It's really good. Yeah, it's excellent show There's only one season that's out. I benched it. I watched the whole thing of it But that's really good. But there's some good sci -fi films. What is that we've we've talked about it before There was a really good sci -fi film from Russia the alien one This They encountered some entity that they accidentally brought back and then they had captured and that they had in some research facility And then it Parasitically attached to this guy Sputnik yes, that's a really good what year was that 2020.

1:23:55Yeah, that's a really good movie. That's a really good sci -fi movie. Yeah, it's really creepy really creepy That's awesome. Yeah, and it's all in Russian, you know Black Mirror. Yeah. Oh black Mirror of course. Yeah, black Mirror is awesome sci -fi But sputnik is one of the best alien movies I've seen in a long time Like recent ones I liked was I mean not to recent maybe 10 years ago, but the arrival. Oh, yeah, arrival was great too I think it's based on this author that has a bunch of short stories that are really good to What's his name? Yeah Yeah, they're you know far in between yeah, Ted Chang he's really good um I mean Everyone all these alien movies it's so fascinating you try to like imagine What they would communicate like how they would be what What we would experience if we did encounter some sort of incredibly sophisticated alien experience alien intelligence.

1:24:59It's far beyond our comprehension Yeah, it goes back to what we're talking about with consciousness like Like you know, maybe really the physical world that we see is like very different than the actual real physical world You know and and maybe like different alien consciousness will have like a different entirely different experience of the physical world Well, sure if they have different senses, right? Like their perceptions of it. Like we can only see a narrow band of things You know, we can't see sort of like the dog, you know hearing a certain show yeah, yeah, we're we're you know We're kind of primitive You know in terms of like what we are as a species our our senses have it have been adapted to the wild world In order for us to be able to survive And to be able to evade predators and find food like that's it That's what we're here for and then all sudden we have computers.

1:25:54All sudden we have rocket ships all sudden We have telescopes like the James Webb that's You know kind of re calibrating the age of the universe where we're going why are these galaxies exist that supposedly were They're so far away. How could they form this quickly? Do we have an incomplete version of the big bang? Right is you know and Penrose believes that it's a series of events and then the big bang is not the birth of the universe at all and this is the the kind of The thing that I think is sort of the Silicon Valley AGI cult is like there's a lot of heavers there that we know everything of course We're at the end of the world.

1:26:36We you know, yeah, I just gonna it's the end of knowledge It's gonna be able to like do everything for us and I just feel it's like so early I think whatever people think is going to happen is always gonna be wrong Yeah, yeah, I think they're always wrong. Yeah, because there's no way to be right I feel like the world is often surprising in ways that we don't expect I mean obviously that's a definition of surprising but like you know the mid -century You know sci -fi authors and people are like thinking about the future Like they didn't anticipate how interconnected we're gonna be right with our phones and how even start They thought we're gonna have walkie -talkies on Star Trek.

1:27:12Yeah, Kirk out Yeah, they were just like focused on the more on the physical reality of being able to go to space and And and flying cars and things like that But they really didn't anticipate the impact of How profound the impact of computers are gonna be on humans on society how we talk and how we work and how we Interact with with other people both good and bad and I feel like the same thing with AI like I feel like I think a lot of the predictions that are happening today like the CEO of Anthropic company that I really like but Said that we're gonna have 20 % unemployment in the next few years What's unemployment at now?

1:27:55Like three percent so is that a person? Ported unemployment though. Oh, yeah, the the participation rate right yeah, yeah But well he talks about unemployment rate being 20 % like people looking for job not not being able to find it 20 20 % It's pretty high. That's a revolution high. Yeah, especially in the United States where everyone's armed Well, that's the fear that I mean this is the thing that the psychological aspect of universal basic income You know, I look at universal basic basic income But first of all, it's just my view on social safety nets is that they If you want to have a compassionate society You have to be able to take care of people that are unfortunate and everybody doesn't have the same lot in life You know, of course dealt the same hand of cards some people are very unfortunate and Financial assistance to those people is imperative.

1:28:49It's one of the most important things about a society You don't have people starve to death. You know people poor that can't afford housing. That's crazy That's crazy with the amount of money we spend on other things also for our self -interest like you know I don't want to I don't know how Austin is right now, but I know I was thinking of moving here during the pandemic And I was like well, this is San Francisco like it's homeless everywhere and yeah, they've put into lot of that up There's still problems and there's places I saw a video yesterday where someone was driving by some insane Encampment, but they clean those up.

1:29:19Yeah, and then there's some real good Outreach organizations that are helping people because Austin's small You know, I had Stephen Adler who was at one point time was the mayor when I had him on and he was very upfront about it He was like we can fix Austin in terms of our homeless problem because it's small But when it gets this size of like Los Angeles, California. Yeah, it's like the homeless industrial complex That's the problem when you find out that the money you're making insane amounts of money to work on homeless issues Yeah, never get fixed. Yeah, you see the budget and stuff. It's just like right accidentally going up Like yeah, and there's an investigation now into the billions of dollars.

1:30:02It's unaccounted for that was supposed to be allocated to No, in California in general. Yeah, what is that? There's there's I think there's a congressional investigation There's some some sort of an investigation into it because there's billions of dollars that like I I'm more than happy like I pay 50 % taxes. I'm more I'd be happy to pay more if my fellow Americans are taking care of Absolutely, but I'm so exact same way, but instead I feel like I cut like this check after check to the government And I don't see anything improving around me. Well, not only that you get because you're a successful person You get pointed at like you're the problem, right?

1:30:37You need to pay your fair share But what they don't this is my problem with progressives They say that all the time the these billionaires need to pay their fair share Absolutely, we all need to pay our fair share But to who and shouldn't there be some accountability to how that money gets spent and when you you're just willing to pay Take a complete blind eye and not look at all at corruption and completely dismiss All the stuff that Mike Benz has talked about with us aid all the stuff that Elon and Doge uncovered Everyone wants to pretend that that's not real like look We've got to be centrist right we've got to stop looking at this thing so ideologically when you see something It's totally wrong.

1:31:20Yeah, you got to be able to call it out even if it's for the bad of whatever fucking team that you You claim to be on yeah Let's get back to what everyone really agrees on in like the Foundations of America whether it's a constitution or the culture. I think everyone believes in transparency transparency of government Yes, and you know Hear everything is transparent like you know court cases and and everything right like more than any other place in the world and So why shouldn't government spending not be transparent and We have the technology for I think one of the best things that Doge could have done and maybe still could do is have some kind of ledger for all the spend of At least an unsensitive so to spend and government.

1:32:04Yeah, well People don't want to see it unfortunately because they don't want Elon to be correct because Elon has become this very polar polarizing Political figure Because of his connection to Donald Trump and because a lot of I mean there's a lot of crazy conspiracies that Elon rigged the 2024 elections There's like You know everyone gets nuts and then there's also the discourse on social media which half of it is at least half of it is fake Half of it is bots Bots yeah half of it And you see it every day you see it constantly and you know it's real and it does shape the way people think about things Yeah, when you see people getting attacked You know when you're getting attacked in the comments and then I see people getting attacked and I always click on those little comments I always click on okay, let me see your profile I go to the profile and the profile is like a name with like an extra letter and a bunch of numbers And then I go to it and I'm like oh you're a bot.

1:32:58Oh look at all this fucking activity 100 % how many of these are out there? Well this FBI guy who a former FBI guy who analyzed Twitter before the purchase Estimated it to be 80 % 80 % he thinks 80 % Twitter is bots. Yeah This episode is brought to you by visible. I want to let you in on something your current wireless Carrier does not want you to know about visible because visible is the ultimate wireless hack No confusing plans with surprise fees. No nonsense. Just fast speeds great coverage Without the premium cost with visible you get one line wireless with unlimited data powered by Verizon's network for $25 a month taxes and fees included Seriously 25 dollars a month flat What you see is what you pay no hidden fees on top of that ready to see Join now and unlock unlimited data for just $25 a month on the visible plan Don't think wireless can be so transparent.

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1:34:42I want him You know, I think it's believable I but I think it's probably the beginning of the end of social media as we know it today Like I don't see it getting better. I think it's gonna get worse. I think You know historically state actors were the only entities that are able to Flood social media with with with bots that can be somewhat believable to like change opinions But I think like I now like a hacker kid and his his parents basement will be able to spend we'll be able like you know $100 spin up like hundreds perhaps thousands of bots but there's programs that you can use now Yeah, there's there's companies that will have campaigns right initiated on your account You can go to website and like yeah put in this thing and like pay with your credit card and it's fucking crazy It's crazy.

1:35:30It should be illegal. I don't know about you But like in silicon valley that trends and maybe it's true of your friend group, but like the trend is as These group messages And in so far like you you go to twitter, you know people based links It's almost like you're your Group chat is like this private filter on your feed and social media. So like there's some curation that are happening there Yes, that's primarily how I get social media information. I don't go to social media anymore I get it sent to me which is way better and I tell my friends like please just send me a screenshot Yeah, I don't want to click.

1:36:08Oh, yeah, I don't want to go. I don't want to get distracted I'm just I'm better off I hate the term spiritually for this, but I think it's the right way like my my Essence as a human I feel better when I'm not on social media. Yeah, I think it's bad for you Yeah, I've been trying to I've been trying to tell people this I've been trying to tell my friends is I think it's better to not be on it I feel better. I'm nicer. I am more I'm more at peace more multi -dimensional. Yes, and I can think about things for myself instead of like You know following this hive this weird hive mindset which is orchestrated right?

1:36:49I just don't think it's good for you. I don't think it's a good way for human beings to interact with each other Again, it is just just hardens people they start believing everything is Is fake or an attack or just becomes more tribal? I think there needs to be a fundamental evolution What do you think that could be if you ever tried to like think of what's the next like let's Social media didn't exist When I was young and it didn't exist even when I was 30 right it didn't even come about until Essentially like 2007ish right is that when I would say 2006 2007 Facebook before that by Facebook wasn't really social media Facebook was like In adress book of friends network But I think when I was at Facebook there was this big push to become more of a social media around 2012 -13 So I would say it really ramped up in responses success of Twitter.

1:37:46Yeah, and then they've tried with threads Which is pretty much a failure. Yeah, but it fundamentally changed who's on threads Less people than blue sky right? Yeah, I think you like some fitness influencers probably Why fitness influence because they post an Instagram they cross -poss and thread as a Well, I think if you post on Instagram it automatically posts for you on threads. I think I have it set up like that So I might be big on threads and I don't even know and maybe maybe I think it's it fitness influencers is because that's who I follow Like Instagram for me just to like go look at people left so I can go get excited That's just a value to that right.

1:38:22This is a value to like David Goggan's post when he's running on the in the fucking desert It looks you stay hard. Yeah, yeah, okay David. I'm gonna stay hard But my my tick -tock is basically I videos now have you watched these video videos? Vio Vio yeah, what is Vio so Jamie? I'm sure you've seen them but Do you do you see the big foot yeti? Oh, yeah, yes ASMR So hilarious. Yeah, I did see that. I would say like 25 % of media consumption right now. It's just AI videos Oh 100 % and a lot of the stuff from the war what's been really interesting is watch Tiran Talk shit on Twitter using AI videos using AI videos like this is bizarre Like high Israel and Lincoln show like a nuclear bomb going on Yeah, this is weird like you have a fake nuke Like and they didn't even take out the like the watermark of the Oh god, I think it's see that it's an AI generated video.

1:39:25They're just trying to like scare people Can you get your car can imagine tell it like going back in time telling you're like 2005 self that Iran's gonna be nuclear posting on on Twitter No, it's fucking weird man. It's it's it's really really weird dangerous to again and again I just don't think people should be on it and this is again. I'm friends with Elon I don't want to just I don't think people are gonna listen to me. They're gonna be on it no matter what of course But I'm just for the individuals that are hearing my voice and know that it's having a negative effect on your life Get off of it right get off of it.

1:40:02You'll feel better get off of it or be incredibly diligent in how you cure You raise that's like telling me to play quick a little bit. I mean, it's so addictive So, you know, you you asked me what could be the evolution of Yes One way I found to try to predict where the future is had it. It's like look at trends today and try to extrapolate You know, that's the easiest way. So if group chats are the thing You could imagine a collaborative Accuration of Social media feeds through through group chats. So your group chat, you know, has an AI that gets trained on the preferences And what you guys talk about and maybe it like picks the the kind of topics and curates the feed for you so it's an algorithmic feed that is That evolve based on the preference of the people on the In the group chat and maybe it hasn't Maybe there's a way to also prompt it, you know using prompt to kind of Steer it and make it more useful For you but but I think group chats are going to be like the main interface for how people sort of consume media and And it's going to get filtered through that what whether good or bad because I think I think Twitter still has a place for debate I think it's very very important for for public debate between public figures and breaking news as well Breaking news.

1:41:24Yeah, definitely, but well breaking news is the most It's interesting like I was telling my wife that Israel had started attacking Iran and she's like well, I looked on Google. I don't find anything. Yeah, I was like Yeah, you got to go to Twitter. Yeah, and I showed her the video of it and she's like oh my god I was like yeah, like this is where breaking news happens X is where I go Immediately if there's any sort of world event. I immediately go to X right? I don't I don't trust any mainstream media anymore right? I just especially after I was attacked I was like I know you lie because you lied about me.

1:42:01So I have personal experience with your lies right? So you've lost me. Yeah, you know, and now I have to go somewhere else right yeah Yeah, I think there's you know, there's some of this investigative journalism that is not real time That uh that some that some reporters that are still good at it, but a lot of them move to sub -stag as well Yes, I think most of them Yeah, like Schellenberger Yeah, yeah greenwald Matt Taiyeebe right these are just too ethical for To work for a corporate entity that's going to lie and push an narrative right and that's the business That's the business model and it's also like the clickbait business model I've talked to people that are articles that they wrote and then an editor came and changed the the the heading of it I that's the norm that's like every time it happens And it's fucking infuriates them.

1:42:53It's like that's not the article man. This is not what I'm saying you're distorting things You know you have my name still attached to it. This is fucking crazy. I I watched I watched these entrepreneurs Like Zach and Elon and all these guys come up in this very hostile media environment and so as I'm building my company I actually never hired a PR agency. I hired one's PR agency paid him $30 ,000. They got me a placement and like a really crappy publication Got like maybe two views. I tweeted the same news. I got like hundreds of thousands of views I'm like fuck that like I'm not gonna use you anymore.

1:43:37It's like you wasted my time and since then I've I've been you know just going direct to my audience and just building an audience online uh to to put out my message and I thought you know They you know if they don't build you up, maybe they can't tear you down uh right right right you're you're you're in control of the message that that gets out of there and I've I've learned how people react to communications and and um It's it's almost like trial by by fire. Well, there's a deep hunger for authenticity right now Yeah, so if they know it's coming from you. Yeah, like okay. This is great Like it takes a little weight off of them like oh, this is nice.

1:44:19It's nice to hear it from the guy who actually runs the company Yeah, and like I make mistakes and You know they happen and I try to to correct them and um I'm not gonna be perfect and I think just the corporate world changed that because of this hunger for authenticity and And um and I think more and more founders are and entrepreneurs are finding that that's the way to go That's you know You don't really need those more traditional ways of of getting the news out But I actually i'm friends with a lot of reporters that are really good But uh they tend to be the reporters that do really de -pork I've met them over time and I still go to rack to what sometimes they write about uh our company But they're minority.

1:45:01Yeah, I think the whole industries Economics and incentives are just like the clickbait and all that stuff Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. They're not incentivized. It's not You want a career in journalism being authentic is not the way to go. No, not at all. She's so crazy Right, so it's a crazy thing to say yeah But then I think there's probably a naivete that we all have about past journalism that we think wasn't influenced and was was real I think there's probably always been horshit in journalism You know all the way back to watergate You know when Tucker Carlson enlightened me and the true history of watergate and that Bob Woodward was an intelligence agent and that was the first Assignment he ever got as a reporter about was watergate like what are the what are the odds?

1:45:47Yeah, that the biggest story ever You would give to a rookie reporter You wouldn't yeah, and that the people that actually involved in all that were all FBI like the whole thing is nuts It was an intelligence agents. Yeah It was the rumor is that Washington Post has always been been that yeah I mean who knows now because you know now it's owned by Bezos and he just recently Made this mandate to stick with the actual story and not editorialism Yeah, and to this is the what I was talking about in trend and Silicon Valley of like you know found our owners Stepping in and actually becoming managers.

1:46:24Well, they kind of have to otherwise. It's bad for the business now because Because of the hunger for authenticity the more you have bullshit the more your business crumbles right It's actually like negative for your outcome. Yeah, and I think you can look at it at societal level, which is again Why I'm interested with this idea of like AI making more people entrepreneurs and more independent Is that you know macro level, you know, you'll you'll get more authenticity. You'll get Just more dynamism Hmm. Yeah, I think so. I mean that's the again the rose colored glasses view Well, you know, there's there's obviously gonna be a lot of things that are a lot of disruption a lot of disruption There's gonna be jobs that are That you know are gonna go away And and there's gonna be spam and bots and fraud and all of that There's gonna be like Problems with like weapon autonomous weapons and all of that and I I think those are all important and we need to handle them but but but also like I think the Negative angle of technology and AI gets a lot more Views and clicks and you know if if we want to go viral right now um I'll tell you these are the 10 jobs that you're gonna lose tomorrow And yeah, that's the easiest way to kind of go viral on the internet But like you know trying to think Through you know, what are the actual implications and and what is true about human nature that really doesn't change and really is timeless and I think the That people want to create and people want to make things and people have ideas, you know Again, everyone that I talk to have one idea or or another Whether it's for their job or for a business.

1:48:22They want to build or somewhere in the middle like the Just yesterday I was watching a video of an entrepreneur using a platform replete His name is Ahmad George and he works for this skincare company and he's an operations manager um and A lot a big part of his job is like managing inventory and doing all of this stuff like in a very manual way and very You know roti -lius tedious way And he always had this idea of like let's automate big part of it. It's like you know No one problem ERP so they went to their software provider netsway and told them we need these Modification to the ERP systems so that it makes our job easier.

1:49:06We think we can automate you know hundreds of hours A month or something like that and they quoted them $150 ,000 And he had just seen a video about our platform and he went on on replete and and and build something in a couple weeks cost At him a $400 and And then deployed it in in his office everyone the office started working at using it They all got more productive. They started saving time and money Uh He went to the CEO and and and and showed him the impact look at How much money we're saving look at the fact that we built this piece of software That is a cheaper than what the consultants uh quoted us Um, and I want to sell the software to the company and so he sold it for $32 ,000 uh to the company and And next year who's going to be getting more maintenance subscription revenue from it Um, so this idea of people becoming entrepreneurs It doesn't mean like everyone has to quit their job and like you know build a business But within your job everyone has an opportunity to get promoted Everyone has an opportunity to to remove the tedious job.

1:50:22There was a Stanford study Asking people what percentage of your job is automatable just recently and everyone like people said about half Like 50 % of what I do is like routine and tedious and I don't want to do it And rather and have ideas on how to make the business better how to make my job better and um, and I think we can use AI to do it And there's there's hunger in the workforce to use AI to For humans to sort of for people to reclaim Their seat as the creative driver um Because the the thing that happened with the emergence of computers is is that In many ways people like became a little more Drones like and NPC like they're doing the same thing every day But I think the real promise of of AI And technology has always been automation so that we We have more time either for leisure or for creativity or for ways in which we can advance our lives change our lives or our careers Um, yeah, this this is what gets me excited.

1:51:25And I think it's it's I don't think it's uh, you know Uh predominantly a rose color glasses thing because I'm seeing it every day and that that's what gets me fired up It's also you have a bias sample group right because you have a bunch of people that are using your platform and they are Achieving positive results. So you're for every walk of life. Yes. I look We have a bunch of things that are happening simultaneously and I think one of the big fears about automation and AI in general is the abruptness of the change Is it's going to happen Jobs are going to be gone and then Well these tedious jobs do we really want people to be reduced to these tedious Existences of just filing paperwork and putting things on shelves and that's and they will tell you they don't want to be right again They don't want to be doing that But then there's the thing of how do we educate people especially people that are already setting their ways and their mature adults How do you get and inspire these people to like okay?

1:52:29Look your job is gone and now you have this opportunity to do something different Go forth I think You know re -skilling is is something that that you know have been done in the past with you know some amount of success Obviously if you're if you've never been exposed to technology, you know, did you remember that I think was very cruel Thing to say the miners to go learn code. Yeah, I learned to code. Yeah, I think that's that's really cruel But but if you're but if you're someone whose job is sort of a desk job You already are in the computer. You're there's a lot of opportunity for you to re -skill and start using AI to like automate a big part of your job And yes, there's going to be job loss But I think a lot of those people will be able to re -skill and what we're doing with the government side of Arabia I would love to do in the US So how is the government of Saudi Arabia using it?

1:53:20So it's we're just starting right now. What's their goal their goal is twofolds or three One is a An entire generation of people growing up with these creative tools And instead of just you know just You know textbook learning instead learning by doing making things So entire generation understanding how to make things with AI how to code and all that stuff Second is Upgrading sort of government operations So you could think of it sort of like like doge but like more technological like can we automate a big parts of What we do in HR finance and things like that? And I think it's possible to build these specific AI agents They do part of finance job or accounting job again All these routine things that people are doing you can go and automate that and make government as a whole more efficient And third is entrepreneurship is if you gave that power to more people to To be able to kind of build businesses then Not only they're growing up with it But but also there's a culture of entrepreneurship and there is existing already in the Saudi Arabia Which I mean the sad thing about the Middle East there's so much potential, but there's so much wars and so so much disaster but And well, there's so much money.

1:54:42There's also so much money Yeah, but which is good and I think it's it's good for the United States like I think You know What what President trumped it with it with the deals and the Gulf region is great. It's gonna be great for the United States It's gonna be great for the Gulf region And but but I think we need more of that you know talk about a government. We need more of that enlightened view of education Of You know change in our in our government today You know this idea that we're gonna bring back the old manufacturing jobs I mean, I understand like Americans got really screwed with what happened like you know people got The these jobs got sent away Like globalism whatever you want to call it and a few number of people got massively rich a lot of people got Decent franchised and we had the opiate epidemic and it had just massive damage it made massive damage on the culture But is is the way to bring back those those those jobs or is that a new way of the future and that new There's probably a new Manufacturing wave that's gonna happen with robotics, right?

1:55:54You know those This you know the human humanoid robots are starting to work um and and these I think we'll need a new way of manufacturing it And so the US can be at the forefront of that can own that bring new jobs into existence And all of these things need need need software like our world is gonna be primarily run by AI and robots and all of that And more and more people need to be able to make software Even if it is prompting and not really you know, but a lot more people just need to be able to make it There's gonna be a need for more products and services and all of that stuff And I think there's enough jobs to go around if we have this mindset Of let's actually Think about the future of the economy as opposed.

1:56:39Let's bring back Certain manufacturing jobs which I don't think Americans would want to do anyways Right, they don't want to do the jobs my problem is there's some people that are doing those jobs right now And it's their entire identity You know, they have a good job. They work for a good company. They they make a good living And that might go away and they're just not psychologically equipped to completely change their life What do you think is a solution there which I agree it's a it's a real problem well desperation Unfortunately is going to motivate people to to make changes and It's going to also motivate some people to choose drugs That's my fear my fears that you're gonna get a lot more people There's gonna be a lot of people that they figure it out and they survive Just I mean, this is natural selection Unfortunately like it in applied to a digital world Is going to be people that just aren't psychologically equipped to recalibrate their life And that's my real fear my real fear is that it's a bunch of really good people out there that are you know valuable parts of a certain business right now that That their identity is attached to being employee the month.

1:57:54They're they're good people They show up every day Everybody loves them and trusts them. They do good work and everybody rewards them for that And that's part of who they are as a person. They're a hard work in person Of course and they feel that way you know, it's like a lot of real good People out there that are you know blue collar hardworking people and that's They take pride in that and that job's gonna go away Well, I actually think that more white collar jobs are going away. I think so too. Yeah, so then then blue collar which is What was the like go back 10 years ago and we thought okay self -driving cars, you know robots and manufacturing and and that turned out to be a lot harder than Then then actually like more desk jobs because we have a lot more data for one We have a lot more data on people sitting in front of a computer And doing excel and Writing things on the internet and yes, and so we're able to train these what we call large language models And those are really good at like using a computer like a human uses a computer right And so I think the jobs to be worried about especially in the next Months to a year a little more is the routine computer jobs where it's formally like you you know you go you have a task like quality Insurance jobs right software quality assurance is like you get you get you get um you have to constantly test the same feature Of like you know some large software company Microsoft or whatever you're sitting there um and you're You're you're performing the same thing again again again again every day and if there's a bug You can report it back to the software engineers and and and that is I think it really um In the in the in the bulls -eye of what AI is gonna be able to do over the next month so much more efficiently much more efficiently much faster Yeah, yeah, there's people have to be really worried um drivers You know professional drivers like people who drive trucks right things along those lines that's going away That's definitely going away.

2:00:09Yeah, and that's a that's a enormous part of our societies Millions of jobs right, you know I was watching a video on this coal mining factory in China that's completely automated and it was wild to watch They every step of the way is automated including recharging the trucks like the trucks know they're all electrical Everything's run on electricity. They recharge themselves You know, they're pulling the coal out of the ground. They're stacking it inventory everything Storage it's all automated and it runs 24 seven like this is why I was crazy. Yeah, I remember watching the Video of BYD making an electric vehicle Hmm.

2:00:52It is really satisfying to watch. It's all like the entire assembly line It's automated the way they like you know put the paint and the way they like do the entire thing is by the way China's Electric vehicles are so good. They're so advanced. Yeah There's this guy that I follow on Instagram. God, I can't remember his name. I really wish I could right now But he he reviews a lot of electric vehicles like very Like I've never heard of these companies and they're incredible They're so advanced. Yeah, and their suspension systems are so superior to the suspension systems of even like German luxury cars Like they did a demonstration where they drove one of these Chinese electric vehicles over an obstacle course And then they had like a BMW and a Mercedes go over in the BMW And the Chinese one is fucking flat -planing the entire way right every Bump in the road is being completely absorbed by the suspension.

2:01:52Right. There's only I you know So much better than what we have right like so much What is this that's him? Yeah, that's him for us Jones shout out to forest. He's great. He does like these really fast -paced Videos but he does a lot of cars that are available here in America as well But he does a shit ton of them that aren't Which one is this one here? Yeah, listen to him because he's pretty good at this shit 710 horsepower I get cameras here light are there for self -driving and this has two neo -made chips and for reference One of those chips is this powerful is four -in -video chips and this has two neo also has battery soft stations So if you're gonna rush you can hit one up it'll lift your cars swap out your battery put in a fully charged one in between Three in five minutes, but here's what the s -class should be worried not only does it have rear steer and steer by wire So it's extremely easy to maneuver it may have one of the most advanced hydraulic systems I've ever seen It can pretty much counteract any bump Wow after you go over something four times It'll memorize it so that the fifth time it's like that bump never existed inside He get pillows in your headrest he did ventilated a massaging leather seats a passenger screen built into my dash a main screen that works super fast I get a driving display a head -up display and my steering works super fast I Pretty dope.

2:03:02Yeah, what's interesting what he said is that the car is learning the terrain Yeah, I think it went over one so learn it and yes, I think this is the next sort of Big thing with with AI whether it's robotics cars or even chat GPT now It has memory it like learns about you and starts to like Sort of similar to how social media feeds, but I think in a lot of ways more negative Learn about you. I think these systems will start to to have like you know more online learning instead of just training them in these large data centers and these large data And then giving you this thing that doesn't know anything about it.

2:03:44It's totally stateless As you use these devices they will like learn your pattern your behavior and and all that yeah Why is trying to so much better at making these cars than us? I think because they're really advanced. Yeah I think you know a lot of people think that I'm not an expert in China, but a lot of people think that the thing that makes China Better and manufacturing is the sort of quote -unquote like more like You know treating workers Like slaves That's you know so slave work or whatever Which I'm sure some of that Happens But Tim Cook recently said maybe not so recent, but he thinks You know part of the reason why they manufacture in China is there's expertise there that is over time Yeah, that's why they want to use the Chinese manufacturing for the iPhone 17.

2:04:47Yeah, and I think the um one of the things that are good at one of the things that are good about more Technocratic Systems Singapore obviously China's the biggest one is that the sort of Leadership it comes out of the cost of you know freedom and other things, but the leadership can have a 50 -year view of where things are headed And they can say while yes, we're now making the you know the plastic crap We don't want to keep making plastic crap. We're going to build the capabilities in the automation and manufacturing expertise to be able to like leapfrog the west and making these certain things whereas it's You know, it's been historically hard Again for good reasons.

2:05:39I think there's more freedom preserving when when you don't have Yeah, that's that much power in in government. I mean, but I feel like America were like the worst of both worlds We're increasingly the government is making more and more decisions and choices and like than any state um But at the same time we don't have this enlightened like you know 10 -year road map for where we want to be Mm -hmm Yeah, because we never think that way because we we deal in terms yeah for your terms That's the problem public companies for your terms public companies quarters Right quarters and again, this is back to this manager idea run by managers that um You know part of the reason why you know, it's zuck has complete control.

2:06:29He can He how much did he spend on VR like I don't know 30 40 billion dollars? Maybe more per year maybe he's been a ton of money like and like a Like a GDP word like a small state GDP worth of money on VR and the public market was totally doubtful Yeah, and the reason he could do that is because he has What are they called super super voting shares? And so he has complete control of the company and he can't be Unseeded by activist investors sort of what's been done to Wasn't there like a recent trial where they were trying to peach him for saying that They're trying to remove him from that they can't unless I know, but there was a trial I think there's a trial that's going on it was going on like very recently.

2:07:18Oh, I think I think you're thinking about the antitrust No, no, there's something about him saying that he can't be fired But it's true. It is true. It's legal. I know it is nonsense the trial. I believe the trial is nonsense But like a friend of mine was actually representing him in this Maybe in Europe or something. I don't think so. I think it's in America Google Mark Zuckerberg Josh Dubin trial see if you could find anything on that But yeah, Mark can think on the order of Decades like when I was there at Facebook he was talking about The idea that like there's going to be a fundamental shift.

2:08:00He's like if you look if you look back 100 years Computers every you know 20 years of whatever Change these are in face modality. Mm -hmm. You go from terminals and mainframes to To desktop computers to you know mobile computing and he was like okay. What's next? And first guess was like VR and now I think they're best guesses like AR plus AI Well, well, like the AR classes their new meta -ray bang glasses plus AI And they can make massive investment. They just made Crazy investment This company scale AI scale AI is Data provider for open AI and Google and that what they do is you know, open AI will say I want the best Law and legal data to train the best legal machine learning model and they'll go to You know places where there's The labor costs are low, but maybe still will educate their places in Africa and Asia that are like that And they'll they'll sit them down and say okay, you're gonna get these tasks These legal programming whatever tasks and you're gonna do them and you're gonna write your thoughts as you're doing them I'm simplifying it basically that they collect all this data basically.

2:09:18It's labeled Labor they take it they put it in the models and they they train the models and open AI's spends billions on dollars and that Anthropic all these companies and so this was the this this company was the major data provider And meta just acquired them. You know, there's this new trend of acquisitions I assume because the I want to get around regulations But they bought 49 % of the company and then they hired all the leadership uh, so so the the scale AI like meta hired the leadership there and bought out the investors they put 15 billion dollars into the company uh, the weird thing about it is google and open AI are like we're not gonna use this shed anymore um, so the company value went down because people you know, these companies don't want to use it and now they're going to to other companies and so in effect It's Zuck Baud talent for 15 billion dollars.

2:10:23Wow Can you imagine that talent for 15 billion dollars? um uh Google recently Baud a company for one no researcher who's one of the inventors of the Large language model technology no machine zero for three billion dollars bought his company and I think they're not really um They do these weird deals where they buy out the investors and they let the company run as a shell of itself and then they acquire the talent Wow Microsoft did the same thing That's crazy. So it's just these unique individuals that are very valuable there very very valuable worth billions of dollars Sam Altman says meta tried and failed the poach open AI's talent with a hundred million dollar offers.

2:11:09So this hundred million dollar is sign on bonus um Does not even Does not even um Accelerate or bone or yeah equity. It's just just born to bonus hundred million dollar come here Failed and failed. I don't know. I don't know about failed. I mean, I'm sure he's gonna say that but you ordered it in a weird way Is that our best talent that hasn't taken it so you could have been of course he's gonna say that of course Yeah, we don't even like those guys And by the way open AI does it to companies like ours like it's it's just a question of scale like zuck Can can give them a hundred million dollars and steal the best talents and like companies like open AI Which I love but they go to like small startups and give them ten million dollars to grab their talent right Uh, but you know, it's uh It's very very competitive right now when there are like I don't know if these individuals are actually worth These billions of dollars, but the talent war is so crazy because Everyone feels like there's a race towards getting to super intelligence And the first company to get to super intelligence is gonna reap massive amounts of rewards How far away do you think we are firm achieving that?

2:12:24Well, you know, like I said like my my philosophy tends to be different than I think the mainstream and silicon valley I think that um AI is gonna be extremely good at You know doing labor extremely good at and like you know chat GPT and being like a personal assistant extremely good at like you know, you like replete being an automated programmer um But the the definition of super intelligence is that it is Better than every other human collectively at any task um And I am not sure there's evidence that we're headed there again. I think that one Important aspect of super intelligence or or a di is that you drop this entity Into an environment where it has no Idea about that environment.

2:13:22It's never seen it before and it's able to efficiently learn to achieve goals within that environment Right now there's a bunch of studies showing like you know GPT For any of the latest models If you give them an exam or quiz that is slightly even slightly different than their training data They tank they do really badly on it Uh, I think the way that AI will continue to get better is is via data Uh, now at some point and maybe this is the point of Of takeoff is that they can train themselves Uh, and the way they could the way we know how AI could train itself through a method called self -play So the way self -play works um as you know take for example AlphaGo AlphaGo is um, I'm sure you remember Lisa doll uh Game between deep -mind alphaGo and Lisa doll and it won in the game of go Um, the way alphaGo is trained is that Part of it is a neural network that's trained on existing data but the way it achieved superhuman Uh performance in that one domain is by playing itself like Millions billions perhaps trillions of times So it it starts by like generating random moves and then it learns what's the best moves and it's like basically multi -agent system where it it learns I did this move uh wrong and you need to kind of re -examine it and and it trains itself really really quickly by doing the self -play Play fast fast games uh with with itself um But but we know how to make this in game environments because game environments are closed environments But we don't know how to make it we don't know how to do self -play For example on literature Because you need you need objective truth and literature there's no objective truth Taste is is different right Uh conjecture uh philosophy Uh, there's a lot of things and again this is I go back to why there's still a primacy of humans is There are a lot of things that are intangible Uh, and we don't know how to like generate objective truth in order to train machines in the self -play fashion But like programming is has objective truth coding has objective truth The machine can't like you can construct a environment that has a computer and has a problem There's a ton of problems and even an AI can generate you know sample problems And then there's like a test to validate whether the program works or not And and then you can generate all these programs test them and um and if they succeed, you know, that's a Um, that's a reward that trains your system to to get better at that if it doesn't succeed You know, that's also feedback and they run them all the time and they it gets better program So I'm confident that program is gonna get a lot better.

2:16:31I'm confident that math is gonna get a lot better um But but from there it is hard to imagine how all these other more subjective soft softer sort of sciences Of the AI will get better through self -play. I think the AI will only be able to get better through um Through data from human labor Mm -hmm If AI analyzes all the past creativity All the different works of literature all the different music all the different things that humans have created Completely without AI. Do you think it could understand the mechanisms involved in creativity and make a reasonable effect? I think it will be able to imitate Very well How humans come up with uh New ideas in a way that it remixes all the existing ideas and um From its training data But by the way again, this super powerful.

2:17:44This is not like a dig at AI the ability to remix all the available data into new potentially new ideas or New -ish ideas because their remixes their derivative is still very very powerful But um, you know the best marketers the best like you know think of um You know one of my favorite Marketing videos is think different from Apple mm -hmm. It's awesome like I don't think that like really Machines are at a point where they like I try to talk to chat you do a lot about like you know marketing or naming It's so bad at that. It's like midwit bad at that um and and I you know for now But but that's a thing it's like I just don't see and look I'm not I'm not An AI researcher and maybe they're working to have ideas there But in the current landscape of the technology that we have today It's hard to imagine how these allies are going to get better at Say literature the softer things that we as humans find really compelling What's interesting is the thing that's the most the most at threat is the sort of middle of the road Hollywood movies That are essentially doing exactly what you said about AI they're sort of like You know, they're sort of remixing old themes and tropes and figuring out a way to repackage it But but I think actually those tools in the hands of humans they'll be able to create new interesting movies and things like that In the hands of humans so with the additional human creativity applied right so they the the man -machine symbiosis Right This was the the term that's used by JC liqlider like the grandfather of the internet from arpa um A lot of those guys kind of imagined a lot of what's gonna have a lot of the future and this this idea of like Human plus machine will be able to create amazing things So what people are making with vio Is not because the machine is really good at painting it right at like generating it and making it but it can't make it without the prompts Like the the the really funny like um Uh, yeah without the prompt like the um Bigfoot uh finds trend uh and they inject themselves of trend they start working out I'm telling you my TikTok feed is this really wild right now Like like I just it's like this like real weird distorted human mind Yeah, come up with this light weight baby Have you seen the ones where uh it's trump and elan and putin and they're all in a band right they're playing credence clear water revival Right, yeah, I see the fortunate son.

2:20:37It's crazy and another one is the LA uh riots and How uh like they're all the world leaders are sort of gangsters and then and the riots But that one is hilarious Yes, yeah, that kind of stuff is fun and it's it's interesting how quickly it can be made too You know something that would have taken a long time through these video editors where they were they were using Computer generated imagery for a long time But it's very painstaking a very you know very expensive you know Now it's really cheap on the way here. I was like I wanted to make an app to sort of impress you with without technology I was like what would Joe like uh and then I came up with this idea of like um a Squat form analyzer Uh and so in in in the car over uh way here started in the lobby, but um I made this app to um you made it on the way over here on the way on my phone Uh, and this is the like really exciting thing about what we built with being able to like program on your phone is You know being able to like have that inspiration that you know can come anytime And just like immediately pull out your phone and start start building it um, so uh Here I'll show you So basically just start recording And then Do a few squats Okay It's gonna analyze it just from there But I mean the camera angle is not that great but let's try it okay And it's gonna be able to tell you whether or not you're doing it well yeah Those are not my best squat Guess so you know what you're okay.

2:22:39I'm not judging you I used the squat uh you know 350 pounds so Uh so so now it's uh It's integrating Google Gemini Model to to kind of run through the video Analyze it um and I'll come up with uh score and then suggestions and so the Again, this is like a random idea. I was like okay. What would what would be interesting to do? That's a really interesting thing that people could use at the gym though might not just for squats But maybe for chin ups and all kinds of stuff like oh, maybe you know I'm looking at your form and this is what you need to good to get a little lower You know make your elbows parallel to your body whatever I built so many personal apps like I build apps for Analyze in my house think I talked about some of my health problems that are now a lot better look bad form Just like straight away critical You're so me again knees position unable to probably Assess from the video angle say it's it's a little okay, so it's saying it's not the best angle But it's saying my depth is bad which was which was actually bad So and and I was leaning forward, but it's pretty good You know I tried it a few times.

2:23:54It's uh It's really good at that and so uh I build a lot of Apps for like just my personal life that would be a that's it that that would be great for a person It doesn't want a trainer right, you know, I don't want to deal with some person Let me just work out on my own, but am I doing this right? Set your phone up have it correct you yeah Yeah, at the office some guys are building we have this partnership with whoop. I don't know if you've tried whoop um and Uh, they're building an app so we can start competing on workouts based on whoop data That's awesome Yeah, our companies like very weird for Silicon Valley like we have a jiu -jitsu mat and we have oh really?

2:24:37Yeah, we have uh do you guys bring in trainers? Mm -hmm. Oh, that's fucking great. That's awesome. Yeah, don't get hurt It's um You know, I only recently got into it, but the uh the the the hardest thing about it is to be calm Because you're your impulses to overpower. Yes Yeah, it's to like yeah, the graces have a great saying keep it playful Yeah, and that's how you really learn the best it's very hard and listen Giant hypocrite because most of my jiu -jitsu career I was a meathead You know, and I that's one of the reasons why I started really lifting weights a lot It's like I really like strength is very valuable It's and it is it is valuable But technique is the most valuable and the best way to acquire technique is to pretend that you don't have any strength The best way to acquire technique is to pretend to Yeah, don't force things just find the best path And that requires a lot of data So you have to understand the positions, you know, so you have to really analyze them The best jiu -jitsu guys are really smart like uh mickey musumi -chi Gordon Ryan Craig Jones those are very intelligent people And that's why they're so good at jiu -jitsu And then you also have to apply that intelligence to recognize that discipline is a massive factor Like mickey musumi -chi trains every day 12 hours a day 12 hours a day 12 hours a day Oh, yeah, is that a human you're possible?

2:26:05It's possible Yeah, because he's not training full blast It's not like like you can't squat 12 hours a day through 150 pounds your your body will break down But you can go over positions over and over and over and over again until they're in muscle memory But you're not doing them at full strength, right? So like if you're rolling right um So say if you're doing drills You would set up like a guard pass, you know, when you're doing a guard pass You would tell the person lightly resist and I I'm going to put light pressure on you and you go over that position You know knee shield Pass You know hip into it Here's the counter on the counter dars, you know go for the dars the person Defends the dars roll take the back and just do that over and over and over again until it's muscle memory right yeah It's like completely in green in your body sort of chest players.

2:27:00It's like let's focus on the end game Yeah, just keep repeating the end game. Yeah, I read the Josh white skin. Yes. Oh Is it called I forgot you know his book about like I think chess and Chitsu was a yeah Josh was just in here a few months ago. He's great. Yeah, just but it's so interesting to see a super intelligent person Apply that intelligence to jitsu You know one of interesting things when I started getting into I've always been into you know different kinds of sports um and then pure periods of extreme programming and and and and obesity but then Well then I try to give back into it um I was a swimmer early on but um One thing that I found especially in the lifting communities how intelligent everyone are there actually almost like Yeah, you know they're they're they're so focused they're artistically focused on like form and program and you know they they spend so much time designing these spreadsheets for your program and yeah uh well that's it people have this like really We have this view of things physical that physical things are not intelligent things But you need intelligence in order to manage emotions Emotions are a critical aspect of anything physical.

2:28:29Mm -hmm any Really good athlete you need a few factors you need discipline hard work genetics But you need intelligence. It might not be the same intelligence apply people also they confuse intelligence With your ability to express yourself your vocabulary your your your your history of reading You know like it's like a bias almost yes that's like a bias. That's like the yeah sort of modern desk job by the laptop class Yeah, well they assume that anything that you're doing physically you're now no longer using your mind Yeah, but it's not true to in order to be disciplined you have to understand how to manage your mind managing your mind is an intelligence in in the ability to override those emotions to conquer that inner bitch That comes to you every time I lift that fucking lid off of that cold plunger that takes intelligence You have to understand that this temporary discomfort is worth it in the long run Because I'm going to have an incredible result after this is over.

2:29:36I'm going to feel so much better Right, right, right. Yeah, I haven't thought about of Intelligence in order to manage your emotions, but that's sort of true because you're constantly doing the self -talk Yeah, you try to like trick yourself To people that are very intelligent that don't have control over their emotions. Yeah, but they're intelligent in some ways It's just they've missed this one aspect of intelligence Which is the management of the functions of the mind itself right and they don't think that that's critical But it is critical. It's critical to every aspect of your life And it will actually improve all those other intellectual pursuits You know to tie it back to the like AI discussion.

2:30:13I think a lot of the So programmer researcher type is like they know that one Form of intelligence and they over rotate on that and they and that's why I was like oh, we're so close to like, you know You know, perfecting intelligence right because that's what you know But there's a lot of other forms of intelligence. There's a lot of forms of intelligence and unfortunately we're very We're very narrow in our perceptions of these things and very biased and we think that our intelligence is the only intelligence Right and that this one thing that we concentrate on this is the only thing that's important right have you Have you read or done any CBT kind of behavior therapy?

2:30:53No basically CBT is like a way to Get over depression and anxiety based on self -self talk and cues I had to use it again. I had like sleep issues. I had to use CBT. I kind of behavior therapy for insomnia and the idea behind it is to Build up what's called sleep pressure so you don't first of all you you insomnia is performance anxiety once you stop once you have insomnia You start having anxiety like by the time bedtime comes like oh my god, I'm just gonna That's interesting. I'm just gonna you know torn over and bad and I'm just gonna be in bed and then you start associating your bedroom with the suffering of insomnia because you're like sitting there and like you know Your online and really suffering.

2:31:55It's really horrific horrific and First of all you treat your bedroom as a sanctuary only there when you want to sleep So that's like one thing you program yourself to do um and the other thing is you don't nap The entire day you don't nap at all no matter what happens like Even if you're really sleepy like get up and take a walk or whatever and then you build up what's called sleep pressure All like you're now you have like a lot of um sleepiness So you go to bed You try to fall asleep if you don't fall asleep within 15 20 minutes you get up you go out you do something else And then when you feel really tired again you go back to bed.

2:32:37Oh god And then and then and then finally once you fall asleep uh if you wake up in the middle of the night which is another sort of form of insomnia uh instead of staying in bed you get up you go somewhere else you go read or do whatever And like slowly you program yourself to see your bed and oh like my The bad is where I sleep. It's only where I sleep. I don't do anything else there Um and you can you can get over insomnia that way instead of using pills and all the other stuff Oh the pills of the worst god people that need those fucking things to sleep. I feel for them I go I can sleep like that.

2:33:12That's amazing. I can sleep on the ground. That's a blessing. Oh She has no wife hates it. It drives her nuts because sometimes she has insomnia I could sleep on rocks. I could just go lay down in the on a dirt road and fall asleep. Wow But I'm always going hard when you're always going hard. You're that's the other thing. Yeah. I don't take naps Right and I work out basically every day and so I'm always tired. I'm always ready to go to sleep So do you fight it or do you just it's not in you to like taking up? I don't need a nap Yeah, yeah, I never need naps. Yeah, how many hours do you sleep?

2:33:45I try to get eight You know, do you get eight? No last night I didn't get eight, but I got seven six and a half probably got six and a half last night. Yeah, but that was because I got home and I started watching TV because I was a little freaked out about the war and so when I'm freaked out about the war I like to um fill my mind with nonsense. Oh okay. Well, I just watched things that have nothing to do with the war like I'm I play pool. I'm pretty competitive. I'm real pretty good And so I like watching professional pool matches and there's a lot of them on YouTube. So I just watch pool And I just watch you know Patterns how guys get out yeah stroke the how they use their stroke like How different guys have different approaches to the game.

2:34:27It's crazy to type a people I was like for you although pools and escape it suddenly becomes an obsession and you're like I need to be a best at it The very obsessed so I you know, I told you I quit video games, but then Last year I was very stressed like the company was doing really poorly before we sort of invented this agent technology and And then also the the you know Gaza Genocide I was like watching these videos every night of just like really really affecting me I can't watch that stuff at night that The at night is when I get my anxiety. Yeah, I mean I don't Generally have anxiety a bit not like a lot of people do.

2:35:07I mean when I say anxiety I really feel for people that genuinely suffer from actual anxiety My anxiety is all sort of self -imposed and when I get online at night and I think about the world My family's asleep Which is generally when I write in a if as long as I'm writing them okay? Comment. Yeah, you know, I write like sort of an essay form that I extract the comedy from it But when I get online and I just pay attention to the world That's when I really freak out because it's all out of your control and it's just murderous psychopaths that are running the world and just yeah, it just At any moment you could be You know in a place where they decide to attack and then you're upon in this Fucking insane game that these people are playing in the world.

2:35:57That's why I felt really frustrated with my family being there was like they they have no say in it right the war started for us for flying Yeah, it's like but anyways, I I started Playing a video game. It's called Hades Hades 2 It's like an RPG video game and And I was like I'm trying to disconnect And then I started speedrunning that game. Do you know what speedrunning is? No, it's like you're trying to finish the game as fast as possible as fast as human as possible And I got down to like six minutes and I was number 15 the world Whoa, but legitimately oh yeah My score is online Play for that was crazy Why is he doing that?

2:36:44That was crazy. It's it's it's miss building. Yeah, yeah weird But yeah, it is it is this thing about about type A people like you're you're just you know You know even and uh and your escapism becomes competitive and stressful well sort of but it's also I feel like it's a discipline. I feel like pool is a discipline just like archery I'm also obsessed with archery archery is a discipline and I feel like the more divergent disciplines that you have in your life the more you understand what it is about these things That makes you excel and get better at them and the more Thing that when I get better at those things I get better at life It's I apply it to everything.

2:37:28Yeah. There's another thing that AI now struggles with which is called transfer learning You're learning something from domain like learning something from math on how to like do reasoning on math and being able to do Do reasoning on politics? We don't have evidence of that yet um And I know I feel the same way everything like even powerlifting when I got really into it Which is like a the most unhealthy sport you can yeah you can do you break your joints down break your joints You look like shit because you know the more you eat you can left more right? Get fat Lest they're competing in a weight class right mean yeah And uh what is that uh repertoire have you ever had him on the jug of milk Uh go mad you know go mad no gallon milk a day do you know that day?

2:38:16Uh do you know it? Discussed yes, I basically gallon milk a day. Yeah, is it more crop or to I he's um he wrote this book called starting strength And it became like the the main way most most guys at least my age like getting into Powerlifting it was about technique. It was about like his whole thing is like look You know everyone comes into lifting. They think this bodybuilding Powerlifting is nothing like that and he also looks looks like shit and he's fat But his technique is amazing And so the way he gets young guys to like get really good and really strong Uh, he puts them on a gallon milk of day Does that really have a part of effect?

2:38:54Yeah, I mean he has a youtube channel like he has a lot of guys that are really really strong And he's he's been a coach for a lot of what is it about a gallon of milk a day is it just the protein intake? What is it if it calories? I don't know. I mean it's okay here it is drink a gallon of milk a day go mad Is undeniably the most effective nutritional strategy for adding slabs of mass to young underweight males milk is relatively cheap painless to prepare and The macronutrient profile is very balanced and calories are always easier to drink than eat unfortunately Those interested in muscular hypertrophy hypertrophy rather Who are not young?

2:39:29Underweight and male populations where go mad is not recommended will need to put more effort into the battle to avoid excess fat Accumulation body composition can be manipulated progressively much like barbell training to achieve the best results for example The starting strength novice linear progression holds exercise selection frequency and volume variables constant Okay, every 48 to 72 hours the load stressor is incrementally increased to elicited adaptation and strength If the load increases too significant or insignificant the desired adaptation will take place Yeah, this is the huge nerds.

2:40:04Yeah, this is the intelligence involved in lifting that people who are on the outside of it would dismiss science. Yeah. Yeah You know, I am so honored to be the the guy that introduces Joe Rogan to starting strength You need to go mad. Yeah go mad roped to watch so funny. You should like watch some of his videos He has like this very thick text in accent and he just like His audience shit some of him all the time they call him fat and ugly and whatever and He abuses his audience to So there's guy put his picture up That's the that's old photo. He's not much better Yeah So he's just a nerd. Yeah, he's a he's a he's a nerd, but like yeah, he used to lift a lot a lot of weight Yeah, there's a lot that's what he used to look like that one photo with him with the the hairy chest the black okay I'm maybe here Wow damn is that him I don't know.

2:41:03I don't think so really does look like him. Yeah, that's him. He used to be jacked Okay, that's good. Oh, so he was a bodybuilder at one point in time But then he got on that go mad yet. No, he's a power lifter. Simply no other exercise no machine prevent the level of muscular stimulation and growth then the correctly performed full squat while he's dead lifting in that image That's weird. So he he also makes his squad on every on every day of lifting. Oh So squat every time every time you're lift really yeah Well his idea is like squat is a full body exercise like you can just go to the gym and when I When I used to be busy and I just want to maintain like be healthy.

2:41:45I'll just squat every Get 15 20 minutes 15 20 minutes squat and just get out of the gym. Yeah But why do something with legs every day? Yeah, yeah, you have to Yeah, but but squat actually it does feel like there's there's an upper body component sure to it as well What's also your body recognizes like oh this asshole wants to live like really heavy thing right we got to get big right exactly It's the best way to get big. Yeah, yeah, cuz your body just realizes like okay. We have to adapt this shit head wants to Try it things every day. Yeah, yeah, it's hilarious and you know the other one I'm sure you you know him.

2:42:21I think you introduced me to him through your podcast Louis Simmons. Oh, yeah, those those guys are crazy. You watch the Netflix documentary I didn't watch the Netflix doc but we did actually interview him He's like one of the few people that I traveled to go meet right who went to Westside barb We have some of his equipment out here. Oh, he's got a hyper. Yeah Reverse hyper is so good for people that have back problems everyone that has a back issue I let me show you something and I bring about to the reverse hyper machine And I'm like this thing will actively strengthen and decompress your spine right it's so good It's so good for people that have like lower back issues where the doctor just wants to cut them I'm like hold on hold on don't do that right away.

2:43:03I had back pain Since since my late teens and and the doctors want to like they They they did a MRI and they found that there's there's a bit of a bulge and they want to do an operations on it Yeah, they want to do it dissect me Someone wanted to put me in antidepressants apparently you can manage pain with antidepressants if you heard of that Yeah, apparently it's the thing and and Through listening to your podcast and others I was like it was just gonna get strong. So I got like got strong squats and things like that and and and the pain got a lot better Didn't didn't go in entirely But the thing that like really got me over the hump and this this one's crazy um Are you familiar with the mind body prescription?

2:43:51No john sarno. Oh, okay. Yes. I heard about him on Howard Stern Mm -hmm. He's talking about how a lot of back pain is psychosomatic psychosomatic. Yeah, I don't so his idea and against this is like He doesn't understand your jitsu There's a lot of back pains reals fuck right right right. I mean I don't think settle down. I think for me it was a combination um of both like there's something physically happening But like his idea is that um His idea is that your mind is creating the pain to distract you from emotional psychological pain And I think that's the case in some people yeah, and um and then doctors will go do an image and often Uh, they'll find something and he thinks that like Lumber imperfections are almost in everyone.

2:44:42Yes. I think that's true and then and then the doctor was latched onto that and And uh and your mind laches onto that and you start reinforcing telling yourself That uh that I have this thing and the pain gets worse There's also another thing called the salient network. Have you heard of this? No If you can bring up the Wikipedia page for say in a network because I don't want to get it wrong But the sales network is The network in the brain that newer scientists found um Uh My doctor Tadiaki he told me about this um the uh sayonist network it gets um reinforced Uh whenever you obsess over your pains or your health issues um That makes sense so it's responsible for perception and the the more you Reinfor it's like it's like a muscle the more you reinforce it.

2:45:43It's sort of like AI You know reinforcement learning the more you're in first it it becomes more of an issue Including various functions including social behavior self -awareness and integrating sensory emotional cognitive information boy bet Social media is really bad for that right totally yeah All right, and and so you know a lot of the you know fatigue and things like that At some point i'm like fuck it Uh, you know i did a lot of other things but at some point i'm like Fuck it. I don't i don't care about it. I don't have it. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna be uh. I'm just gonna be good. Mm.

2:46:16Just not concentrate on that Yeah, because i was reading about it all the time. I was doing it. I was like really worried and I had an abogiel shriering like i'm better talking about that and we regards to cognitive therapy that there's a lot of people that like Obsess on their problems so much that their problems actually become bigger Yes, and this is it. This is the neuroscience behind it the sales network makes sense Yeah, um, but there's legit back problems of course legit back That's one of the john sano thing. I was like okay, not for me. I'd I'd understand how some people could develop that issue But his his insight was look look ironic clinic in New York city for a long time and they're these uh chronic illnesses come in waves There's a there's a Ulcers wave in the like 90s oh There's it became a thing that people were talking about a lot.

2:47:07Yes And then there's a there's like a neck pain and then there's an rsi that most recent one was our psi What is rsi repetitive strain injury And again these all thing all these things have rational um explanations For for me I was in the computer all the time Uh, and i was like, oh my my arm hurts and And yeah, maybe you know, there was some aspect of it. I was programming a lot uh, but but also after i read john sano and and and i realized that some of it might be also psychological that you know, it's this stress It's uh, i don't know what what's your baby. I have some childhood issues, but uh, but but like you you just realize that a lot of it And maybe the other ways through as well when you just like minimize it it just becomes less of a of an issue in your mind But the fact that it is like fashion Should tell you that there's something like psychosomatic right the fact that it does come in waves like that Sure and then once it's in the zeitgeist Right ulcers or whatever it is.

2:48:13Yeah, right. I remember when i when we were kids like everyone had ulcers And i was like oh, it's from coffee in the morning Uh, like there's all these i don't know any one of the house. Those now right That's true, that's right. That's crazy. That's wild This is wild the mind like the way it can benefit you or the way it can hold you prisoner Yeah, and again, this is maybe why i have like a little Like um different view about AI and humans and all that from from from from silicon valley like this is a weird thing, but um Uh Every time i set my mind to like meet someone i meet them Including you oh wow That's weird Like yeah, I want to oh me this person something happens Some Chain of events, but obviously you know you also see it somewhere.

2:49:07You're doing something very You're you're you're you're not just thinking it right we're also doing things right which is my problem with like the secret and like the Manifesting things i don't go that far, but i don't know like there's something to there's something there Yeah, there's something to it. Yeah, I just I think the mind in our connection to reality is not as simple as we've been told Not at all. I think there's there's something there and again when you start looking at psychedelics and and stuff like that there's there's something there and Um, I remember um listening to to one of it.

2:49:48I love Jerry circa early 2010s um it was uh there was a remote viewing Uh you were talking about a remote viewing episode um and i was like wow that's that's crazy uh and Obviously very skeptical of it the idea that you can Meditate and like see somewhere else or see let's see it from above yeah I read a book by DaVinci is called DaVinci's brain i think um And DaVinci is like fascinating is who's this fucking guy he right he does everything and um And he literally is like across all these domains and he doesn't he barely sleeps like he has this polyphasic sleep Thing which i tried once is torture Uh Basically every four hours you sleep for 15 minutes Oh When i was uh when i was in university i um I was i was very good at computer science, but i hated going to school and in jordan if you don't go to school They ban you from from the exam Oh, why i always getting a's but i just don't want to like i don't want to sit in class Uh and actually this is when i started thinking about programming on my phone It was like maybe i can code my phone class um But uh but i felt that was like injustice like i just made it she whatever you want to call it like Just can sit in class like just give me a give me a break And so i felt justified to You know rebel or fix the situation somehow so i decided to like hack into the university and change my grades So i can graduate because everyone was graduating.

2:51:23I was like five years in I took me six years to get through through a four -year program just because i can't sit in class Um and you have to have some some some dyslexia and things like that but um so uh i um I i decided to do that and i'm like okay um Like hacking takes a lot of time because like you're you're coding you're scripting you're running scripts against servers and On you're waiting and i'm like i'm just gonna uh You know to optimize my time i'm just gonna do this the vinci thing where like For four hours by the way there's a sign filled episode where What was this name bit crazy guy in signfold um Kramer kramer kramer does polyphysics Sleepy Maybe i learned it from there.

2:52:07I'm not sure but how you wake up uh you set on alarm. Oh god. Yeah, it's torture That sounds so crazy. It's apparently da Vinci used to do that But anyways, I I was able to to hack into the university by like working for weeks using uh polyphysics sleep Uh and was able to change my grades um and uh uh Oh Initially, I didn't want to do it on myself But I had a neighbor who uh went together to school and and and i was like should you know let's change this grade and see see if it actually succeeds and actually succeeded in his case and it was my lab rat But uh in my case uh i got caught and and the reason i got caught is uh There is The you know in the database uh there's your grade out of 100 um You know zero to 100 When you get banned because of attendance your grade is de facto 35 So I thought I would just change that and that's the thing that will get me to to pass Well turns out there's another field in the database about whether you're banned or not Uh this is bad this is bad coding this bad programming because it's this this database is not normalized There's a state in two different fields So i'll put the blame on them We're not designing the right database That's very You blame them for your hacking videos successful.

2:53:33So what was the punishment uh so so uh the entire universe is someone down because this this anomaly I was I was I was uh you know um I passed but at the same time I was I was banned and so I got a call Uh from the head of the registration system And it was like seven p .m. Whatever it was landline and a pick up the call is like hey listen We have this issue we're dealing with like the entire thing is down and and it just shows your record There's a problem with it. Do you know anything about it? And at the time I'm like all right there's like a fork in the road You know I either like come clean or just like this is a lie that would like live for me forever I don't like I was gonna say it was like yeah, I I did it And it was like what do you mean?

2:54:19It was like okay, I'll I'll come explain it to you So it's the next day I I go there and it's all the university in deans And it's like one of the best computer science universities in in the region the princess of my university for technology Um and they're all nerds, yeah, it's so i the the the discussion became technical on like how I hacked in the university I know I want the whiteboard and explaining what I did This is whatever And it just felt like a brainstorm recession. I'm like all right. I'll see you guys later. It's like wait um We need to figure out what to do with you like you know this is serious um and um like oh crap um But the president of uh They they kind of put the decisions to the president and he was I forgot his name, but he was such an enlightened guy um and and I went and told him like I just didn't mean any malice I just felt like justified.

2:55:10I needed graduate And I've been here for a long time. I actually do good work and Um And he's like look you're you're talented um but with great power comes great responsibility He gave me the spider -man Um and he said uh for us to forgive you you're gonna have to go and harden The systems in the university against against hacking So I spend the summer trying to work with uh with the engineers of the university To to do that But uh but they hated me Because you know i'm the guy that hacked into the system So they would like blackball me Like sometimes i'll show up to work and they wouldn't open the door and I can see them Like I can see you there.

2:55:49I'm locking and they will let me in and let me work with them um We did some stuff to fix it and and then uh uh i gained uh uh You know fame maybe in new sorority and the in the university and actually got me my first job um While i was in school and um It's a different story but that that job was it was at a startup that ended up making Videos that were a big part of the Arab Spring um oh wow Yeah And i was part of some of these videos as well, but anyways uh So uh one of the computer deans uh i was like hey listen i really helped you out A computer science thing i really helped you out when you had this problem And i need you to work with me uh in order to do another research to hack into university again It's like I'm not gonna do that like i don't want to get it knows like no We're not gonna get in trouble you're you're you know sanctioned here.

2:56:46It's gonna be sanctioned So so again i worked tirelessly on that this time i invent a piece of software to help me do that uh and um And i was able to like find more uh more uh vulnerabilities Uh and so i show up at my project defense and it's uh it's like a committee of different deans and students and all that Uh and so i go up and i start um Explaining my my project and like i run a scan against the university network and it showed a bunch of red like there's vulnerabilities And one of the uh deans is like no that's fake you that's not true It started dawning in me that i was like a pawn in some kind of Power struggle power struggle So that that guy was responsible for this university system and this guy's using me too I was like oh shit, but like i'm not gonna back down.

2:57:42I was like no, it's not lies true And so uh i'd like tap into that uniform uh vulnerability and i go into database and i'm like Um All right, what do you what do you want me to show your salary or your password? Or i was like showing me a password so i show me the password uh And uh i was like no that's not my password and it was Encrypted but they also have in the database like a decrypt function Which they shouldn't have but they had it so i was like decrypt to the password and the password showed on the screen In the middle of the defense and so he he's doing his his face was red and he shakes my hand and he leaves to change his password That's awesome and i graduated and you know they caught me some slack And i i was able to graduate that's awesome.

2:58:31Yeah, that's a great story. We will end with that Thank you very much brother. I really appreciate it. Yeah, I'm really pleasure. That was great great conversation Your app let everyone know about it. Replit r -e -p -l -i -t .com There it is. Yeah, Replit Replit .com go make some apps go make some apps people Avoid the whatever the hell's gonna happen All right, thank you very much. Thank you You