#2348 - Lukas Nelson

28:28And he's like, well, you're not like the other ones. And he's like, well, what do you mean? Do you know everyone that's black? Like, what is this? And so he becomes friends with this guy, has dinner at his house. And then the guy gives him over the course of their friendship, gives him his role. But he says, I quit, man. I'm, obviously, what I'm doing is wrong. Because you're my best friend. You know, like, I love you. And so it can't be true that the black man is my enemy if you are such a cool person. Yes. And humans must be allowed to grow. Yes. We have to be, we have to allow people who have made mistakes in their past to, we have to suspend judgment enough to allow that person to grow.

29:11No question. Yeah. Because you have to understand like, what influences was this guy's subject to that led him to join the KKK in the first place? Yes. Like, what was the community that he was in? What had he been exposed to? Obviously he had never been exposed to anybody like Darryl before he met him. So he meets Darryl and then changes his ways. Well, who knows if that guy grew up with cool parents in a different community? He would have been a different person. 100 % were products of how we, we are brought up. Yes. For the most part, our life experiences and what we've learned and the paths we've taken.

29:45Yeah. And, you know, and, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of that going on. I mean, I'm from Texas and I've toured the South and I know how that is. And there's a lot of people that grow up being indoctrinated. Uh -huh. And, and, and with really not, not good ideas. Right. But they don't know until they're able to, that's what I was saying earlier about, you know, that's what music does. I love a great example. It's Paul Simon played a show in South Africa. Just after apartheid. He, when he did the Grace Land album, right, he went down there and he worked with local African musicians.

30:31And created, in my opinion, one of the greatest albums of all time. I mean, with Lady Smith, Black Mombazo doing the vocals on that and the incredible, Vincent and Greene, the most incredible musicians. And at the time, that was a culturally powerful thing because there's a show online. You can watch it. There's, there's a, you should probably pull it up. There's, it's amazing. There's like, Paul Simon playing for tens of thousands of Black and White people in right after apartheid ends. Or he made me during apartheid. And they're all dancing and bobbing up and down. It's the most joyful thing ever.

31:10Music is powerful. They can bring people together. But because what it does is it reaches everybody's heart and it cuts through all the bullshit. The mind stuff, you know. And everyone can relate to having their heart broken. You know, maybe it happened for some at a young age. Maybe it happened, maybe some people had their heart broken at age four to the point where they closed their hearts off nearly completely. But even Darth Vader had a little bit. You know what I mean? Darth Vader, everyone forgets that Darth Vader at the end of Star Wars. Yeah. Redeemed himself. It's the Carl Jung, the archetype, right?

31:49The dark night of the soul. And I'm being able to come through that. Yeah. And like, and really, like, you know, and you can judge. You cannot want to be around. Like, I think Carl Jung actually talks about like there are certain people and things that you can't allow to exist. Because they're dangerous to everyone else. But at the same time, you don't have to judge their humanity. Right. You just like, it's like a wasp. You have to swap the wasp because it's going to sting you. But, you know, or, you know, however you feel about that, you can put it outside. But you get it away, right? Right.

32:23You know, but you don't, you don't call the wasp evil. Right. There are people that have just been corrupted for whatever reasons to the point where you just need to remove them from the situation. But I don't, I try not to have hatred towards that. I just, I just sort of understand that they are where they are in their lives. And they, they got there for some reason. Well, it's a cautionary tale for everyone. Yeah. That's the thing about today's access to information is you could see so many different cautionary tales. You could see so many different people that went down the absolute wrong road.

32:57And you get to see them and you get to shine a light on them in this very strange time. You get to see like this, this is, you could have been that person. Anybody could have been that person. Oh, we're all easily. We're, we're, we're, we're, we have so many similarities. All of us do. And we have to recognize that your unique situation in life, your unique community, family, life experiences, all the things you've gone through that made you who you are today. Mm -hmm. Didn't have to be that way. You, you could have been in the worst circumstances. And there's people that are in the worst circumstances and that, and they're a product of that.

33:38And that's the, the weirdness of life. There's not necessarily good and evil. There's good and evil results. Mm -hmm. But humans inherently. Well, we have both inside. We have both inside. And we're the Yen in the Yang. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we're thinking need that unfortunately too. We need to know that. The exists. Yeah. In order to grow. When people, you know, ask, you know, and I'm a very lucky human. So like, I say all these things with, hopefully, the right perspective that I am, as far as, I'm in like the top 1 % of the luckiest people, or probably even the higher than that. You know, with access to clean water, I don't have to worry about when I'm pulled over being shot.

34:27I don't, you know, there's not, there are a lot of things that I can be very grateful for. And so when I make comments about these things, you know, I can only come from my own perspective. Yeah. Of course. But I do believe that we all have the light and the dark inside us. Like the story of the wolf, you know, the story of the two wolves inside of us. And, you know, which one survives is the one you feed. Right. You have the light wolf and the dark one. Yeah. And you just constantly make decisions in order to feed the right wolf over time. And some people get lost and they start feeding the wrong wolf.

35:06And I feel like I've been there before too. You know, I've gone through darkness and come out the other side. You know, in my own way, in my own, you know, in my own experience, you know, in my own pain, in my own heart. You know, you know, I think that's why I believe it's so important to reach people's hearts and why music is so powerful because we all have a heart. You know, disregarding certain sociopathic people. Yeah. We all, from the most part, we all have a heart and a, and so that's where you reach, you know. And I think sociopaths, you know, that's on a spectrum too is what we're hearing, you know what I mean.

35:48So you have people who can learn sociopathic behavior but aren't necessarily devoid of feeling. Right. There's people that become sociopaths or survive, I bet. Exactly. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I'm sure 100%. Yeah, it's not that clear cut. And, you know, to demonize people is, that's the instinct, right? That's how wars get started. We other, an entire group of humans, they're the other. You know, and I think this is tribal society behavior that developed because at one point in time, when you saw someone from another tribe that was invading, they were coming to steal your resources and kill people.

36:28Yes. And that's what people did. And again, that also, there's an exception to that in the sense that, like for example, in Germany, you know, there were, there were just clear cut decisions that people had to make about survival and about, you know, like, I'm sorry, but the Nazis had to go. Right. You know, we can't, we can't just say that, you know, they're good people. No. Everyone's the same. You know, they're, they're so far gone. Right. That they just have to go. Yeah. And that's, there are certain examples of that. So it's not like you're, you don't, you don't have to forgive people. You just have to understand them, I think.

37:09Yeah, that's what, that's why people call that the last great war or the real war. Right. Yeah, because it's like there was like such a clear cut case of good and evil. Yeah. And that's, I mean, look, that I think the military industrial complex has been around and since even before then. Oh, for sure. Well, Smetley Butler wrote about it in 1933. Yeah. So anyways, that's where, that's where Bob Dylan comes in, you know, masters of war. You know, you know, you know, look, man, I'm, again, that's also why mushrooms are illegal. Is it really? Oh, yeah. Yeah, mushrooms were made illegal during the Nixon administration because they wanted to figure out a way to stop the anti -war protests.

37:48They wanted to figure out a way, they turned everything schedule one. They took all the psychedelics and lumped them into a schedule one because they wanted to go after civil rights activists and anti -war activists. That was the main reason, like this is the best way to lock these people up. Well, and interestingly, yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, right, because the thing is, there are a lot of studies like about marijuana and alcohol that say, oh, it could be harmful, right? They come out. But then at the same time, the way that those, that that's harmful and then the, you know, comparatively to the other things that are legal and allowed to just propagate.

38:30Yeah, like whiskey or cigarettes, you know, like, I mean, like, you know, you have, it, there's obviously a bias against and that you can see clearly and, and obviously it came from this. Well, it's also deep, who's funding these studies? Right. And what, what did they look for when they're funding these studies and did they have, it was their bias attached to these studies. Like what, what does this mean? You know, like, I know a lot of people who use marijuana, it's not harmful to them at all. So did you include those people in that study? Like, and then I know people that use marijuana and it really does over, it consumes their life.

39:08They overindulge. Yeah. I had to stop. What was, what was happening with you with it? Well, I had to stop for many reasons. I wanted to be clearheaded. I started exercising a lot. You know, I got my whoop, you know, I got my whoop right here. You know, I started tracking my sleep. And I, funny enough, the sleep is really what got me the most because every time I take a hit or take one drink, my sleep would go to shit. It's amazing when you look at the results. Oh my God. It was intense. And so, and you know, I started working out heavy and I really, I had a lot of great, like, you know, I, I have a, you know, a high, good engine, you know, I'm VO2 and like, I was like, you know, I really started to feel like an athlete again.

39:58And so I feel, I started to feel great. I started to get addicted to the high that I would get saying no of being proud of myself, having discipline and having the discipline. I love the high that I get from exercising discipline. And I'm addicted to that. That's a good thing to be addicted to. Yeah. Right. Do you get addicted to that feeling that you get that like, self -improvement, you know, like Goggins, he talks about, you know, all care at no stick, right? Or all stick no care. I can't remember which one it is. Right. But the thing is is that for me, the reward is the high that I get from having discipline.

40:37Yeah. And I get a, it's a dopamine hit for, you know, and it's, it's just vastly more rewarding than, then, than whatever temporary thing I'll get from having a drink. I don't know, like, like drinking that much. But smoking weed was cool because it put me into a very like creative spot and kind of getting the surge of inspiration, if you will. But it's bad for my lungs. And there were a lot of ups and downs emotionally. I'd get high and I get low and I get high and I get low. And now this clarity, you know, that I have is just, it's incredible. You know, it's just a steady, you know, it's the steady sort of joy.

41:20You know, that I, I mean, because I had to face myself too. When you get clear, you have to, things come up and then you look at them and you're like, and things that you didn't want to look at before, you know. Yeah. Habits that you had or things in your past that you have to forgive yourself for, that you didn't really, they were like floating in the back of your mind as unfinished thoughts. And so with without it, all of that masking, I was able to sit and, I mean, look, I was able to sit and write this record, which is the clar - most clear album I ever, you know, it wanted to know who I was throughout the, without all the, you know, I didn't want to chase a six minute guitar solo.

42:04I didn't want to chase. I wanted to just figure out who I was, stripped away from all that. It's funny. There's this guy, Marcus Dowling. He's a, um, right for the Tennessee Inn and I was sitting talking to him in Nashville. And he was, he said that when I put, he, he had a, he was ready to listen to my record and he was about to have a whiskey. And he, first, the first song comes up and he puts his whiskey down. He's like, oh, I, I don't want to drink for this. And I think that music puts you in the state of mind that the artist is in when they recorded it or when they wrote it. So this, it's, it's kind of almost like interesting that he decided to put his drink down when you heard this out, like the first song because like, that's where I'm at, you know?

42:47And so I wonder if there's that feeling of like this kind of like, it's less of a jam band, than you're more of just like straight songs. There's probably definitely something to that because I think that's something that happens when someone's on stage performing. It's like you let them take over your mind, you know? You let the music in the song. It's like creating a holographic bubble that you're all participating in this vibe. And it's, I mean, you were there at the Maconahe thing. It was an electric feeling, right? Yeah, it was pretty wild. It was wild. Yeah, it was awesome. And I felt like, you know, it was cool to see everyone there and just like, you know, it was also like the added thing to that that, you know, they do that every year and it's a charity.

43:34Yeah. All the money goes to good. You give him back. Yeah. And a lot of charities, like there's like five different charities that they're given to. With Maconahe, he's a good guy. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. He's a very wise man. He's a wise man. Especially for someone who's an actor, you know? Yeah. A lot of them. And that's again, that's the thing that I have to get over because I was around so many of them in L .A. that were fools, that I just immediately associate acting with like these empty vessels that are struggling for attention and trying to say the things that they think will get them the best spot.

44:14Yeah, I think that, look, I mean, to become an entertainer, there's a level of, you know, self -absorption. Yeah. You know that you have to sort of like accept, all right, I got a big ego. Now, can I keep my ego in check for my whole life? Like, I think my dad has, you know? Right. I mean, I see my dad as a great example. I see Paul Simon as a great example. Right. I see, you know, Neil and I, you know, I see these people that like that, they're just artists through and through. You know what I mean? Yeah. And, you know, for better or worse, not perfect people, but they are who they are. And they, for the most part, I know my dad has an ego, but he has a good relationship with it because the ego is just the representation of who we are to the rest of the world, you know?

45:06Well, everyone has an ego. Yeah, we all do. And the struggle with the ego is just like the struggle with good and evil. I think part of it is necessary for you to overcome. Yeah. And you need that. You need those, and you also need to see people fall prey to it. Yeah. We see that a lot. Ren is an artist named Ren. No. Oh, man, you'd love his work. He's like a, he plays Gichar and he sings amazing. Spell it. Dari N. Dari N. He's from England. He's from Wales. He's Welsh. And he's, yeah, this guy. That dude. Yeah. So he's got a song called, high -ren. Listen to high -ren. Yeah, this is the one. Yeah, put the headphones on.

45:46Okay. I've seen him for a while. He's like a, you start as a busker. Right. Oh, well, then dudes at the subway station. Yeah. This is a crazy song. It's about communicating with your ego. What a weird fucking start to a video. A guy with a pig mask on. Oh, man. High -ren.

46:48Yeah. Yeah.

46:56Yeah.

47:00Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

47:17Yeah.

47:55Yeah.

48:02Yeah. Right. He just has a whole conversation with his own mind, his own ego. Yeah. And it tries to tell him that he's not worth shit. And then he's like, no, wait, I'm getting myself together. And this whole conversation with him, and then at the end it talks about where good and evil isn't a battle. It's a dance. And no one ever wins. Yeah. You know, with their battle with their ego, it's always just a dance. And it's always just kind of finding balance, you know. And there's a song I have on my album called All God Did. And it's actually the same concept. And I wrote it before I heard that, when I heard that, I was like, oh, shit, that's way better.

48:45No. But it's great, you know. And it's super, it's beautifully written. I mean, you know, it's very, you could tell all his influences. And then he just kind of adds onto that, which is that dance is critical. Yeah. You need that dance. That dance is, I think this is one of the problems that people that don't exercise. I think the struggle of exercise is oftentimes conflated with vanity. Yeah. And I don't think it's that. I think you can keep your body covered up to the end of time and never be proud of it. And you will benefit greatly from the struggle of exercise. Because I think the struggle of exercise is, is mental.

49:25As much as it is physical, there's a dance that's, like, when I talk to Goggins about it, like he's the most bizarre of all cases. Because he's doing it all in silence. He's doing it all by himself. And occasionally he lets people peer into it. But it's going on right now. Like right now, that guy is out there running probably 30 miles today with destroyed knees. Yeah. Like he's a real freak. And when I talk to him about it, he's like, I'm downloaded knowledge. Yeah. That's what he says. That's great. He's like, I'm in the lab and I'm downloaded knowledge. Like he's struggling in his own mind every day and forcing himself to do it every day.

50:05Yeah. And then he brings elite athletes to try to keep up with him occasionally. Like he brought Israel out of Sanya. Israel out of Sanya is former UFC Midway champion. Like one of the best fighters of all time. And you realize like he can't even keep up with Dave. Not even close. This is one of multiple workouts that Dave is doing in a day. And this guy can keep up with him. And Dave's 50. What was the part of the brain that gets enlarged that that Hubert Min was talking about that gets enlarged when you do things you don't want to do? I always forget the name of it, but Jamie will pull it up.

50:41Yeah. The interior mid -final. I don't know how to say that. This should be like an easier name. Cortex, interior, stuff like that. The discipline part. Yeah. The discerbal. The enlarges throughout your life when you do things that you force yourself to do. Yeah. It literally does. It literally gets bigger, which is crazy. You know, being so. What is it, Jim? An interior mid -sigular cortex. You got it. Ha! Nice. Success. Mid -sigular. Mid -sigular cortex. Yeah. Shout out to Andrew Hubert. There you go. Doing things you don't want to do could strengthen your brain, particularly the interior mid -sigular cortex, which is associated with willpower and tenacity.

51:25That's incredible. That it actually grows. Yeah. You know, so willpower is not just a, it's not like an airy, fairy concept. It's like a muscle. No. It's. This episode is brought to you by Farmer's Dog. It doesn't matter how old your dog is. It's always a great time to start investing in their health and happiness. And thankfully, the Farmer's Dog makes it easier than ever to feed your dog a healthy diet of real meat and veggies. Dogs prefer their food, even picky dogs, and owners prefer their service. If you have a question about your dog, your plan, your delivery, or anything else, they have 24 -7 customer service that connects you to real humans who are genuinely interested in providing food.

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53:28Incredible that willpower can be also, can be enhanced. Yes. That that's, it just goes to brain plasticity and you know, and that's a concept that I think a lot of people don't understand is that we are not set in who we are. Right. We are, especially if we adopt a growth mindset. Right. That we are never set in who we are. We can always improve and refine the neural structure of our brain to where that it works more efficiently. Not just that, but you have to. Right. There's never ends. Like there's never a time when you're done with discipline. It's not, you don't just get it and now I have discipline.

54:16No, every day is a struggle. Wow. God had said that. Sometimes I stare at my sneakers for like a half hour for I put those motherfuckers on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like four in the morning, you know, every day. But here's the thing is that it becomes a philosophical question because when you say you have to, I'm, you know, there are people who get by life, you know, and they, there is a Tibetan tradition in that the monks do where they spend months and they take these little like flute things and they, and they have colored sand. Right. And they all sit in a circle. And it takes them months sometimes to create this beautiful, intricate sand art.

54:54And they chant, well, they do it. And it's the most incredible thing. And at the end, they go, and they blow it all away. Yeah. And it's meant to represent the impermanence of life. But then it's meant to also pose the question, why make something so beautiful when it's going to be, when you know it's impermanent? And I believe it goes back to the first thing we started talking about today, which is that meaning is everything in life. And nothing really in life inherently has any meaning except the meaning we give it. So you could go, you could like go through life as sand on the beach that blows in the wind.

55:36And you know, you know, no one, you wouldn't, it wouldn't really mean much when you blow one way or another. Yeah. But if you choose to give your life meaning and build a sand castle and make it as intricate and beautiful as you can and make it like, you know, as detailed as possible, knowing that one day is going to get washed away. At the only person that it matters to is you in knowing that you did the best you could at that moment that the wave comes. If that's true, they should never let anybody film them making those things. They should never let anyone film them making those things because then it becomes permanent.

56:17Someone can see it forever. Sure. But you know what I'm saying? But yeah, again, I think it's for them anyways. Yes. It's not for everyone else. But like when you let people peer into that world and you film it, there's something about that like, okay, you just cheated it. Well, in a way it becomes permanent, but it also, I mean, is, you know, just because you see it happening, let's look at it. Can you find that? Yeah, you sure you could find it on there. I mean, I'm not dismissing it. No, no, I think, but I think it's an interesting question because something that lives in our subjective reality.

56:52If you see a video of that happening, right, and then you grasp the concept of it and then that makes you consider that concept in yourself. Understanding that, you know, the meaning is a subjective experience anyways. Right. Then now you understand like, okay, what? It just causes one to ask the question to themselves. And I think that's the purpose that the monks are, you know, they're there as sort of like in a way they're teachers, you know. So they show you something that like then you ask, you know, inside. Yeah. So what you were saying was that in response to the idea that everyone should exercise and discipline.

57:32Yeah. Well, but it's like you don't have to do that, but your life will have, you will experience a different sense of meaning. Sure. You know, if you do that and that will, I think that's enough for me at least because I'm driven by finding a sense of meaning. And I think maybe because of how I grew up, you know, maybe others aren't driven by that, you know. I think that's really important to say too, because you never know like what is driving one person. Right. I don't know how your brain works. Exactly. I could only guess. Yeah. I could only assume your brain works like mine. Sure. And that's silly.

58:08That's a silly thing to assume. Yeah. We don't even know if we see the same colors. Right. There it is. Wow. That's so beautiful. Isn't it? That's amazing. And then they're going to fuck that up. I wrote a piece once for kind of an Esquire or Max and one of those things about your body's like a sand castle. Yeah. That you're building this body, but one day it will be eroded. Now they're just sweeping it away. And then they're like, well, they'll dump the sand in the river too though. Isn't it? It's kind of abstract as they swirl it. It's kind of beautiful too. I think how long that took them. Oh my God.

58:48I must've taken forever and they're scooping the sand up. They scoop it up. Yeah. Look at that. Just doing it with like these little things. They just tap on it. Look at that. Wow. That's beautiful. Yeah. That's kind of amazing. I've always loved that concept. Right. And I think that, you know, yeah, maybe they shouldn't let you film it. I don't know. I'm like, I'm glad they did. Yeah. I mean, they're letting people watch it. Yeah. And, you know, just allowing people to see what the whole thing is. And it allows more people to understand the concept. Well, that's kind of like Alan Watts. Like always says, you know, don't listen to what I'm saying.

59:24Right. Because the dowel that can be spoken is not the real dowel. Right. And yet here I am just loving the sound of my own voice and talking about it. You know, and I mean, and like, you know, so it's like, you know, that's the great paradox of the spiritual self. And understanding what that means. You know, well, that's, that becomes readily apparent after you have a psychedelic experience. I remember one of my first ones that I had. I realized when I was trying to describe it, like I'm trying to impress people with the way I use my words. I was very aware. Yeah. I was like, oh, I'm trying to impress people with my grasp of language that I'm using to describe an experience.

1:00:03And I was like, oh, that's kind of gross. One of the great, of course, actually, when I started listening to you, it was in like 20 2007, 2006. And it was, I was listening to a lot of Terence McCana at the time. And Terence McCana, talk about someone who had a grasp on the English. Yeah. Oh, he was amazing. What an incredible, like I'd listened to his lectures, you know, that were available online. Psychedelic salon is the best resource. That's still up, right? Lorenzo from Psychedelic salon who had been on the podcast before, back in the day. He's collected like the greatest assembly of McKenna, Alan Watts, Timothy Leridon.

1:00:50Yes. There's a Rom Doss conversation, I think, with Alan Watts. Oh, wow. Somewhere out there, which is really interesting. Well, my friend Duncan became friends with Rob Doss. Yeah. I actually met him in Hawaii one time. Really? Yeah. I got to meet him. Yeah, Psychedelic salon. So it is Psychedelic salon .com. And there's Lorenzo. And Psychedelic salon is like this incredible resource of all the McKenna lectures. I mean, he has, because it's such a great resource, so many people who were there at like, you know, some talk that he gave in Hawaii. It's a conference room somewhere, recorded it, and then they would send that to Lorenzo.

1:01:34And then he'd put it online and have it available for everybody. And, you know, some amazing insights and conversations. He lived not too far from where I live in Maui. So I went on a whale watch with him one time. Really? With McKenna? No, with Rom Doss. With Rom Doss. Oh, okay. Yeah, but not no, McKenna. I think the kind of died in when I was a kid, like really early. Yeah, I think he died in five or something. No, it was a little later than that. When, what year did McKenna die? You're Jamie, right? 2000. I heard you play golf. I do. And you were in a simulator earlier. I was. I was in a simulator last night to like, two of my hands all blistered out.

1:02:25We were having a conversation while we were getting espresso. And I was saying I can't play music for the same reason I can't play golf. Right. And then he shows me his hands. So he's, we're all lying. And you're like, oh, that's what he was just doing back there. Yeah, Jamie's got this. He's got the bug. Yeah, he's got it bad. Well, he wants to fuck his friends up. It's fun. Yeah. It is a fun game. It's fun to make people mad.

1:02:52That's a weird motivation, but okay. Yeah. Yeah. There's a, it's funny. The closest friends we have are sometimes, you know, the ones we give the most shit though. Oh, yeah, for sure. Well, they're the ones that know you love them so you can give them. So you can kind of, yeah, you can. And it's fun. There's nothing like that feeling of like having a friend that can take it and dull it out. Oh, that's why I love comedians. They're the best. They're the best. Because they, you shit on them, they love it. They shit on themselves. Everyone's having fun. Yeah. Exactly. That's one of the great joys in life, I think.

1:03:27Yeah, the people that can't take that boy, you're missing out on a giant chunk of what it means to be a person if you're so sensitive, you can't let people crack on you. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You're missing out on a lot of the fun. You're missing out on half the laughs. Because half the laughs are at your own expense. Exactly. I think I've probably laughed harder at myself than at anyone else in my life. That's a healthy perspective then, and then you're a fairly healthy person. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's funny. You know, we're running around trying to find meaning in life and one day, you know, like one day is a crazy thought, but one day the last remembrance of the human experience will happen.

1:04:11Yeah. You know, and shit, it might be on our lifetime. I doubt it. I think it'll be, I think it'll be because even now we're uploaded into the AI system, you know, something will survive, you know, something. Yeah, well, whatever we are will lead to whatever comes next. There's a great episode of Star Trek called The Inner Light. Have you ever seen that? The first Star Trek, the real one? The next generation. Oh, that's bullshit, Star Trek. Whoa. Whoa. The Hems fight in the woods, man. You're a Picard guy. Hell yeah, I'm a Picard guy. I vote for him right now. That is hilarious. Meanwhile, he probably could win.

1:04:53Diplomacy, man. So this is the inner light? The inner light. Here's a story. Okay, here's a story. They come across a probe. All right. Because they're exploring space, obviously, if you don't know Star Trek, you're exploring space and their whole mission is to go where no man has gone before. And so they find this probe. And as they're scanning the probe, it zaps Picard and he goes unconscious and he wakes up on this world where he remembers the spaceship. He remembers where he was, but he's got a wife and a family and kids. And this world is being threatened by an exploding sun. And so he's got a lot of scientific knowledge.

1:05:33So he over the next 20 years in this world. Wow. He eventually grows old and accepts his fate that he has no idea how he got here, but he's got to live this life now. And he starts to love his wife and his kids. He starts to try and save this planet from the exploding sun. He ends up not being able to. And then as he dies, he wakes up back on the spaceship with only 20 seconds having gone by on the spaceship. And the probe was a, had been sent by that civilization. They knew they were going to be destroyed, so they uploaded this thing that, like, would let Picard experience what happened to their civilization until their story.

1:06:20Wow. And he did it. Experience it. He experienced it a lifetime of 40 or 25, whatever years before he died. In the span of 20 seconds and then woke up at the moment of his death in that other life. And then was able to now tell the story of this forgotten civilization in space. Whoa. Is the coolest concept ever? Okay, I'll have to watch it now. I mean, it's, you know, I just told you. Sounds like hard.

1:06:49Do you know who Joseph McGonagall is? No. Well, Joseph McGonagall was like, he was remote viewer number one. Oh, interesting. He was the first guy. And they gave him an assignment once without him knowing like where he was looking into. And what it turned out, he was looking into Mars one million years ago. And when he looked into Mars a million years ago, Mars was falling apart. And there were beings on Mars. They were going into hibernation. They had built pyramids and all these structures. And they had to leave Mars because Mars was being destroyed. Their atmosphere was being destroyed. And they had to come to Earth.

1:07:36Right. What he submised from that is that what we are is the children of the people of Mars. That's why we're so different from all the other primates. There's a whole movie dedicated to that exact premise. Really? Commission to Mars. Who's in it? I don't know. Is it Greg Keneer? Maybe Greg Keneer. No, I don't know. Let's look at it because it's like a great movie. And it's about that. I'm not seeing it. No, I'm taking it out. Gary Senees. Gary Senees. Tom Sheetle. What year was it? 2000. Yeah. Okay. Mission to Mars. Mars. Yeah. And that's exactly the premise of the entire movie. And so the premise of the movie is that these people...

1:08:19They go on a mission to Mars. They see like a structure on the surface of Mars so they go and they check it out. Whoa. And then like that's the whole thing. And they realize that Mars... Well, you know, this is not outside of the realm of possibility. No. And one of the reasons why I say that is like they've found... They've recently found structures on Mars that are so obviously man -made that it's almost impossible to deny. Like I showed it to Elon and he's like, I wish I could go look at it. Okay, but here's the thing about... Have you seen that? Did you know what I'm talking about? No. Show them the square on Mars.

1:08:58So there's this... In the 1970s, they took satellite photos of what looked like a face on Mars in Sidonia. And it's kind of weird. Kind of weird, but it's hard to say if that's like there's things on Earth that look like faces and it's just like... It's just a natural formation. Right. But then they found this. This is recent. Look at that. I mean, what the fuck is that, man? Look at those right angles. Look at that. That's on Mars. Yeah. And that's interesting. That may have been a structure. It may have, yeah. I mean, look. It's too complete. It's too square. It's a square. I mean, look, I might actually...

1:09:37It might actually be a rectangle, right? Yeah. Is it kind of a rectangle? Well, I don't know. We'd have to measure it. I'm sure they can measure it with, you know, throughout, you know. I just... Here's the thing. When I looked at remote viewing, for example, and I really looked and did research on it, the studies that were done were kind of discredited about how the effectiveness of those actually were. So if you like really dive in, there's literature that says that it wasn't really the reason that they, you know, apparently. Now, this is all like... But conflicting information, you know. I had how put off on who was a remote viewer and who's involved in the remote viewer, the stargate.

1:10:17Right. So what does he say about the idea that, like, the actual studies were not that, like, conclusive and then, you know, that's why they... Depends on who's doing it. I know. What's the methodology? Yeah. But they were able to accurately find within a small radius a downed Russian spacecraft. So a Russian spacecraft that re -entered orbit and crashed. It was a spacecraft or an aircraft. Do you remember Jamie? But they used remote viewers and the Russians couldn't find it and they found it. And this is... You're talking about in, like, a vast expanse of wilderness. It could have been anywhere.

1:10:54Right. But they found the area where it was. They also found a Russian factory that was making an enormous nuclear submarine. They found it, accurately described it. Wow. The dimensions of it. They knew where it was and it was an accurate location. Yeah. Not just the thing that was being hidden. Right. But where it was, the dimensions of it. I don't dismiss it. I can't dismiss anything. I just know that when I looked up UFO experiences and this disclosure stuff that's happening lately and... Yeah. I mean, I'm a huge... I'm not just a believer. I pray that there is someone out there disarming nuclear missiles, especially right now.

1:11:44My great hope is that there is someone just trying to not step in but oversee it. To the point where we hopefully we can survive to a point of having an interstellar civilization. You know, it would be... America's beverage companies are investing in America. We're American companies making American products with American workers in America's hometowns. We're local bottlers and manufacturers operating in all 50 states, employing more than 275 ,000 Americans in good paying jobs, delivering for the nation because we believe in the promise of America and the people who make it great. Learn more at wedeliverforamerica .org.

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1:13:48It's the great dream of humanity, right? Sure, but we have to be a different civilization than we are now. Oh, 100%. Otherwise, we're going to do the same shit. That's the thing is that, and that's what I, you know, I was always, even before Elon was as famous as he is, now, when I was like 15, I read his book, and the one thing that I, you know, I'm a friend of - What was his book? He read it. It was like a book about him, maybe. Okay. And I can remember it, but what I really wanted the focus to be on was, let's put all these resources into getting this planet right first. Uh -huh. Let's put everything we have, and you know, it felt at the time like, okay, well, yes, we're spending all this money to go off and maybe we're hopeless.

1:14:35It's possible that we're hopeless, and it sounds like that's where they are on this, you know, it's like, oh, well, humanity on earth is just, it's just over. We just have to go somewhere else. But then if we go somewhere else, we're just going to do the same thing like you're saying. So like, all of the resources in my opinion should be focused on like, like, there's devices that, that they, they have invented that can be put in river mouths around the world to filter out pollution and plastics going into the ocean. Right. And it's like this incredible technology. If the budgets were spent towards these innovations, you know, you know, and maybe AI will help it, you know, right now AI is a, is, is kind of a tax on the planet in terms of like, you know, it's not very good for it.

1:15:23But maybe the AI technology itself will then invent something that makes itself more efficient for the planet. What do you mean by as a tax? Well, because the energy required for the servers and all of that is so, it's so, you know, it drains a lot of resources. Right. Right. And so, but what AI may do is help us create like an ion battery or something that like, that like makes energy give off less, you know, you can have this much more energy with way less heat and way less. Right. And so then you can create, you know, instead of having to have giant warehouse as full of servers, you can have just, you know, like, I mean, it's the same stuff that happened with the computer.

1:16:05Right. Where the computer required a giant building when it was first created. And now you have computers smaller than them. Just to be clear, Elon's position is not the earth is like that humans are helpless or hopeless. And we have to just leave earth. It's not that it's that life is so fragile here because of the possibility, not just of us fucking it up, but of natural disasters. And that we need to become interstellar in order to propagate life and to survive. And so we can carry on this growth that we're involved in as a human species because. Okay. There's, I mean, they just, what was the number that they just found a bunch of new asteroids?

1:16:48Like the possibility of us being hit by a near earth object is extremely high over the next X amount of hundreds of years. It's extremely high. And these things might not wipe everything out, but they'll start civilization all over again. They'll bring us back to cave people. So the idea was that the more places that we are, the more likelihood that the human race survives. It's not just that we are going to fuck this up. And I appreciate wanting the human race to survive. Don't get me wrong, you know. But it should be better than it is now. I want, I want us to learn our lessons on this planet.

1:17:22Yeah. And I think that that's even more important than surviving. I mean, here's the thing. When you ask yourself, when someone asks themselves, have I lived a life worth living? Is it, is a life worth living? Someone who lives a very long time, or is a life worth living? Someone who's lived a good life and maybe for shorter. So is what is the ultimate effect that humanity has on the natural world and environment? Are we, do we deserve to be space -faring? And if we do, then I say let's go. But I mean, I think - Deserve by whose judgment? Well, I mean, I mean, by my own individual judgment at this point, you know.

1:18:05But I mean, I mean, are we better than the lions who killed the gazelles? No, but the lions, everyone who, all the natural world works cyclically. The way that the lion kills the gazelle and the way that the alligator takes the, you know, the tourist. Yeah, exactly. Everything works with balance in nature. You have just enough give and take its work that way for years and then yes, extinctions, events happen and then things die out and like. But there has never been a creature on the planet with the ability like we have to take as much resource as possible as we can without replenishing that or balancing that out.

1:18:50Right. So we, I think, have a responsibility as humanity to understand how to balance ourselves with the, and harmonize with nature. And I think that's where my great hope is is that we figure out how to find a cyclical arrangement with nature where we, where just like photosynthesis, just like plants give us oxygen. Yeah. And then, you know, the carbon dioxide we breathe, then the plants, then sequester. Well, our disconnection to nature might be a part of our disconnection to psychedelics that might be one of the reasons why we're disconnected is we're lacking a crucial element that's there to humble the human species.

1:19:36Yes, I think that's the great key. I think that's part of it. I think I really do. And I think that these monsters that were trying to silence the anti -war and the civil rights movement in the 1970s by making those things illegal. Yep. They essentially, they hampered our development, but not all of it, right? So our technological development continued, but our spiritual development ceased. Yeah. And intellect, devoid of wisdom is dangerous. Yeah, for sure. Especially like overcome with ego. Yeah. Intellect overcome with ego is like really discussed. And the thing about it is that no one believes they're a monster.

1:20:16Right. Everyone justifies their behavior. Right. And they think they're doing good. I mean, with the exception of, like I said, a few sociopathic, completely devoid of empathy individuals. Yeah. But for the most part, everyone justifies their behavior. Yeah. For themselves. They judge themselves and then they somehow make it well because I'm doing this because I'm doing this, you know, I, you know, I can sleep at night. And so they let themselves sleep at night. And a lot of times they should be looking at themselves and changing, but they don't. Yeah. And like, so that's why my policy is I try to just always look at myself and see, is this actually beneficial for not just me, but for the people around me, you know.

1:21:03And music has been one of the great things in life that is a win -win, you know, it's always a win -win. Yeah, that's a great way to look at it. You know, it's like, wow, I'm so lucky to just be able to observe, be able to play, be able to sleep well. You're a chef for the soul. You know, like a chef provides food. It's a win -win. People eat. It's wonderful. You enjoy the food. Oh, man. It sustains you. Yeah. And I think music is, that's a lot of what a musician is. You're a chef for the soul. Jimmy Hendrix, you're a huge fan. Huge. Yeah. He was other than my dad, it was Jimmy and Stevie Ray Vaughan.

1:21:43Right. And Stevie Ray being here in Austin, I sort of had a special affinity for, even though Hendrix. Steve Ray is the only one who's allowed to do voodoo child, other than Hendrix. I think you're probably right there, you know. I mean, other people can. I'm just joking around. No, no, I think, actually, heard you say that was Charlie. Yeah, I was like, yeah, I think I agree. Kind of right. Because he's the only one that I can listen to, where I go, yeah, yeah, this is like a Stevie Ray version of voodoo child. Well, and he was a disciple of Hendrix. Oh, yeah. He was, you know, he really sat and, you know, and really lived that life.

1:22:19And the, the thing that I learned that was the best lesson I learned, it goes back to why I am sober now and where I'm at. It was because I think the greatest lie I ever believed for so long, I did 15 years on the road, you know, 250 shows a year. And I told myself I had to live like my heroes in order to be, you know, and I think, I think that's what it didn't kill Stevie Ray, but it derailed him for a long time before he got sober, you know. Stevie Ray died in a tragic accident, obviously, it was, you know, just, that's what happened. But I almost had a chance to drive him really. And I was driving limousines for this limousine company in Boston and we're supposed to, he's supposed to take limousine, but he wouldn't take limousines.

1:23:06He would take caps. He always wanted to take caps. So I drove this limousine, I drove Jeff Beck once. I drove Annie Lennox's crew. I didn't drive any Lennox. She's beautiful. She's amazing. I went, I had to drop off the crew at this restaurant and Annie Lennox was talking and her voice was so powerful. It's like, the way I described it, I was like, her vocal cords were made out of like piano wire. Because like, her voice was carrying in the room. And I was, at the time, I was 20 maybe. And I remember like watching her talk, oh, this is crazy. Like this lady's voice is like traveling. Like it's, it has a different power than everyone else in the restaurant.

1:23:51The voice is such an incredible thing, is it not? I mean, the power of a vocal, like look at James Earl Jones. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah. Like to change. Darth Vader, by the way. Darth Vader. Yeah, he's Darth Vader. Yeah. And he lived to be what, 95? Something like, how long did he have? I mean, he was crazy. And he was still doing that. Well, yeah. Well, that's, there are certain ones in my brain. But Steve Array didn't, what, wouldn't take limousine, like fuck this little. He wanted to get, he liked to talk to cab drivers, like to get in the cab and you like to just keep it real.

1:24:26Oh, man. Even though he was a superstar, he didn't want to be treated like one. He just wanted to be normal. Some of the best conversations I've ever had have been in like, Ubers or, or lifts or what, you know, whatever, just sitting in and like chatting about like where they're from and like, how they got there. And like, there's a lot of incredible stories that you know of like, you know, perseverance. Yeah. You know, escaping certain situations. Yeah, no doubt. Yeah. I mean, and then, you know, this, everybody's got their own little journey. And sometimes you dip into someone's journey and go, what are you doing, man?

1:25:00Yeah. He's going on. I was trying to learn a little bit of the language too. Like, how do you say this? Yeah. Yeah. There's something like, there's something that just makes people, I think, really drop their defenses when you submit yourself with humility to learn their language. And then I say, you know what? Like, look, thank you for driving me. I'm so glad you're here. Right. How do you say thank you? Right, right, right. How do you correctly pronounce your name? Exactly. Yeah. Well, you know, I work for the UFC. So there's a lot of people that I have to ask them, tell me how to say your name.

1:25:37Because some of these names are just insane. Like some of the names from Dakistan or from, you know, Kazakhstan. There's so many places where like, Shavkat Rockmanoff. Like, she's Christ. Yeah. Thanks forever. And I have to, I can't fuck their names up. No, I'm glad that you think that. Yeah. Because that's a beautiful thing. Well, it's interesting. I'm fascinated by the different sounds that people choose to use as their language in different places. Yeah. It's like human beings evolved in all these different places with all these different ways of communicating. Oh, yeah. They're all different.

1:26:12What's the clicking of in Africa? Yeah. Yeah. There's a musician and I can't remember for the live me her name, which maybe Angelique Kijil, but no. But she sings and she uses the clicks and then just does this. Oh, my gosh. She uses the clicks in her music. Oh, it's so beautiful. Oh, man. How are you going to wonder? Like, what caused them to develop that kind of language? You know, it's like they're all developing it in the vacuum, right? Because they're all the people in that area and that community generation after generation after generation all agree to communicate in this certain way. Yeah.

1:26:50And then they run into people in China and you're like, oh, Jesus, this is so different. And in China, there's like, I don't know how many different dialects. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then different, like completely different. Oh, yeah. Well, my grandparents were from Italy and they spoke a Sicilian dialect. Oh, I'm Sicilian too. Oh, that's great. I'm on the other side, yeah. But I remember me like learning Italian in college. And it was so different than the way that they were speaking Italian. Well, and I think I'm not certain, but Dean Martin had a specific, and it may have been Sicilian or maybe a specific northern Italian or Napoli, maybe it's in it.

1:27:31But the way that he would sing Dominico Muldunio's song, you know, Valare, Penso, Canes, Sonio, Cosino, Nito, and he might. Yeah. And he would do it and he'd go, you know, he'd have these like slaying in his version. It's quite different. The Italian, if you listen to both of them together. Interesting. It's really interesting. Yeah, dialects are weird, right? So there's like people learn how, well, I mean, look at America, right? You can go to like New Orleans. Yeah. And people have a completely different way of talking than people do in New York City. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Have you, if you heard about the new, speaking of AI, the new adventures that were now embarking on some scientists, they're like using AI to communicate with animals like whales.

1:28:18I saw that with cats. I saw that today that a lot, a, I, yes, AI is translating cat language with like 95 % accuracy. They think they know what cats are saying to each other now. Do you think that will have an effect on how we treat animals if we're able to communicate with them? Probably, yeah. Well, I'm sure you've seen dogs when people say, I love you and they go, whoa, whoa, yeah, yeah. You know, like, they're trying. It's like something there. Yeah, they're trying to say, I love you. They just don't have the same lips. Yeah. And they're very, dogs will, you know, they're very good at mimicking.

1:28:53Oh, yeah. You know, and behavior of, well, they certainly understand language. Because I talk to my dog like a person. I talk to him. Like, I can say, come on in. Is it time to go outside? What do you, what do you want to do? You want to get crazy? And they're like, hmm, I'm going to go outside. Like, he knows what I'm saying. Like, I can, I don't have to say it in a certain tone. I can just say it in a word. It was funny, my dad, you know, Roger Miller, you know, Roger Miller. Roger Miller. Trailer's for sale, or rent. Rooms to let 50s. You know, King of the Road. Oh, King of the Road. Yeah, that's so, my dad and him were good friends.

1:29:34And he used to, he used to tell a lot of great jokes. But one of them was, it's true. You start, what they say, you start looking like your dog. I just got chewed out by the neighbor for shitting in their front yard.

1:29:47He's got, my dad has so many amazing jokes. Well, you, it must have been really interesting. The people that your dad brought around. Yeah. Cause like, yeah, well, one of the greatest moments I ever felt like I was a part of was just a sort of a normal afternoon. And I wasn't Hawaii. And I was at my parents house there. And it was me and dad was sitting around and Chris Christoffer's and walks by and in behind walks in. They're on their way to the airport or coming from the airport or whatever. And in walks in with him, Muhammad Ali. Whoa. And so I'm sitting there and me and dad are just picking.

1:30:29And Muhammad comes and sits down and Chris is on one side of him and dad's on the other. And I'm the one who got the guitar. And so we just start singing for him. And he's shaking. He can't speak really, you know. But you could just see me and dad and Chris were just like serenading Muhammad Ali one afternoon. What? And we saying help me make it through the night. We're saying always on my mind. I'm saying one of my, you know, it's just like it was like a beautiful afternoon. I'll never forget that moment. It must have been so strange to be constantly surrounded by these exceptional people. Not just exceptional, but exceptional worldwide, like the way they receive worldwide.

1:31:10Like these are like iconic humans like Chris Christoffer's and like an iconic human being. Muhammad Ali's an iconic human being. Yes. He's and the and the key language there is human being well -rounded, thoughtful, empathetic. Yeah. I mean, wise, you know, wise. And at least people are, you know, they made their life their work. Jimmy Hendrix, I think, was famous in saying that you, you, you know, your art isn't just the music. It's your life. You make your life the work of art. And that's what I mean, he had no problem with all the colors that he used in his whole life. You know, he had no problem expressing himself in many other forms other than, you know, and how he dressed and how he worked.

1:32:00You know, everything was an expression of who he was in his art. And I, you know, I'm grateful to have been exposed to a lot of those people in my life. Yeah. It's just a very exceptional childhood in that regard, right? Because for some people, they grow up and I remember the first time I ever met like a really famous person. I was like, whoa, this is weird. You know, it was probably my 20 month, you know, other than like seeing Jeff back and seeing Annie Lennox. I never really met them. You know, I didn't really start meeting famous people until I became a comedian and then really meeting famous people until I got on television.

1:32:32Right. And then it was just, it was odd. It was so, it was instilled to this day sometimes. I'll have someone in here like had bono in here. And it's just weird to me. Like one of my first bono memories, I was like 25 years ago, I was doing mushrooms and I was listening to in God's country. And I got to tell that to Bono. Wow. It was like, it was one of the wildest versions of your songs. Like looking out over this canyon while that song was playing. Yeah, it's beautiful though. Yeah, it's amazing for the memory. But it's just weird, you know, to just accept that they're human beings. Because you see them on television, you see them and all these things.

1:33:07You grow to realize like, oh, we're all just human beings. And like that's part of the lesson of it is to meet someone who you don't think is just a human being. And you realize like, oh, all of us are human beings. We're all great lessons. I mean, and when I think that I was able to understand fame and its trappings at a young age. And that's, you know, that's something I'm also very grateful for. That I was able to see like, okay, a lot of dad's friends, a lot of the people that I, that I grew up around didn't make it very long because they got into this. They got into that. Or they, you know, or and I see it all happening a lot to a lot of young people that are unable to handle fame.

1:33:50Oh, yeah. You know, and fame is not inherently a good thing. I think it's actually probably a net negative. Although it's a necessary thing if you want your art to get out to as many people as possible. Or if you want to create a living. Like, I don't depend on my parents. So I want to, my music to get out there so that I'll have a career when I'm 90. I want to be playing, you know, I don't want to, I don't, I mean, eventually I have to keep making a living. And so you have to be a little famous. I have to think there's a part of you that had, that, you know, part of, of the entertainment world.

1:34:22Where you have to make sure, you have to put yourself out there. Yeah. And that's kind of despite knowing that when you put out yourself out there, then all of the, you know, that you get unwanted attention too. I think one of the worst things about it is the scammers on the internet. There's so many scammers now on Instagram and Facebook and everyone. And they pray on elderly people. Oh, yeah. And they pray on, you mean it's scam pretend they're you. They pretend they're not there me. And they go out there and these people are, are, I think they're the lowest form on this planet really. Because these are people that have dementia issues they have, you know, you know, they're elderly, you know, and they, and they pray on that demographic specifically because they know that they're more gullible and don't understand technology.

1:35:13And they think that I'm talking to them and they'll give in some cases thousands and thousands of dollars of their own savings. In my name. And that has almost made me get off the internet many times. But even so, what happens when I get off is that they just run rampant. You know, they create new accounts and then the people that are, you know, sort of, and they don't want to believe it's not me. Of course, you know. And so like the people that are caught in it get caught and they get hooked, you know. This episode is brought to you by Rocket Money with prices going up on just about everything lately, dealing with money can be stressful.

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1:37:59Just go to SimplySafe .com slash Rogan. That's 50 % off with your first month free at SimplySafe .com slash Rogan. There's no safe like Simply Safe. I remember watching this documentary once and it was about people that get scammed romantically online. Right. And this is this guy who is a lonely man who is in his 60s. And he had this girlfriend that he was communicating with in Europe that was non -existent. He flew over there twice to meet her and every time she conveniently couldn't meet him totally. And his his daughter rather was trying to explain to him that it wasn't real that he's getting scammed that he didn't want to believe it.

1:38:42And in the documentary you could see like this guy like coming to grips with it but not wanting to believe it. Like oh something just came up she couldn't go she loves me. It's the saddest thing. I then just happened to us recently. I played a show with Eric Church at Chiefs and I had a bunch of friends there and everything and I and we had someone show up at the door saying that they had been given they had been put on the list by me that I was in a relationship with that person and show them weren't just kids of panic. Well these people are in some cases gets a panic or they have outtimers or dementia or memory issues or whatever but a lot of times they're just being catfished you know or just like you know like I mean I've seen there is that show catfish that was on TV and not too long ago.

1:39:28I don't know if it's still around but like these are otherwise sort of normal people that get they get tricked into believing they're in a relationship and they have a girlfriend and they're online and they get to the place and that's you know these are like sometimes young people. I mean I'm sure it's not just a couple of people that even get it just shows you how easily sometimes even intelligent people can be manipulated for sure. Yeah well it's just the perils of dealing with this non material world. Yeah dealing with the internet world. I mean I'm sure it happened in some ways back in the day you know with letters and things like that.

1:40:01Oh it happened with everything. I mean snake oil salesman. I mean yes I was reading oh no I was watching Cody Tucker today. He had something about this guy who was treating people for cataracts and it didn't really treat them and actually blinded them and he had done it to two different famous composers. This one guy was like and he was a traveling guy. He would go from town to town and do things like that. There's always been people like that. I mean do you ask yourself do those people have any conscience at that at certain point what are they telling themselves to justify their behavior. Yeah they're probably just getting by and probably they've been fucked over too.

1:40:45Most of those people have been fucked over to the point where they can justify fucking over other people. Like those people have a common you know someone did it to me I'm going to do it to them. This is the game we play. What is the antidote to that? You know I think those people exist so you can appreciate people that don't do that. I think that's where like heartless nasty vicious people exist. So if you ever been in a relationship with someone it's just like a real shit just mean nasty insulting gaslight. Yeah and trying to diminish you as a person and then you meet someone who's not like that and you're like oh if I didn't know someone who sucked maybe I wouldn't appreciate this person.

1:41:29Totally. You know and like that's the beauty like one time me and my friend Brian we went on this hunting trip with my friend Steve Rinala to this island in Alaska. And we were there for a week getting rained on every day it was miserable just freezing shivering every day for a week. And I came back to LA and this sun felt so good. It never felt that good. I've been living in LA for 25 fucking years. It never felt that good. But I appreciate this song. Why did I appreciate this song? Because I just been rained on for a week. I had taken it for granted. This beautiful amazing sunlight that I just just go oh it's fucking sunny day.

1:42:12Where's my sunglasses? Let me drive to work and get inside real quick because it's too fucking bright out. You know and I didn't. But because of the rain for a week of rain I really felt it and I remember calling my friends Steve I have never been happier. And that's why is because it's sucked for a week. And I think you need that. I think you need shitty people so that you appreciate good people. And I think when you meet someone who's gaslighty and you know someone tries to ruin your life. Like those people exist so that you can appreciate people that aren't like that. The Yin and Yang of life.

1:42:46Another great example of that is when you have to pee so bad. Right? And then that moment when you get to the toilet. And it's wow. Beer drinkers understand that. Oh man. Yeah. Or when you're sick. And you know and then you're like oh man. You're almost like you can't even remember how it felt to feel good. And then when you feel good you're like I'm so grateful that I feel good. Right. It's an amazing feeling. Yeah and that is the thing we take for granted more than anything is personal health. And you give up personal health for a short time short term experiences like you know drinking. Like drinking is terrible for your health.

1:43:24But you give it up. You give up these little chunks of your health for these like small bursts of release of inhibition. You know. Right. Yeah. I never really liked it anyways. It never really actually put me in too often. I always was like I wish I hadn't. It puts you in bad spot. Yeah. I feel like like I think the people and I've read this that the people who actually sort of drink and become like happier the life of the party or whatever are the ones who are more likely to become addicted obviously. Oh for sure. You know because there is a like there are two types of people that when when they drink like for me when I drink it kind of makes me think more and I get kind of depressed and I you know like kind of down.

1:44:11I don't really actually. Well you're a sensitive artist literally. That's literally what you do. Hold on. You're right. Now you can lean into that. But it's a weird thing too. People lean into that sensitivity. They lean into it. They carry it around as a badge of courage. No. It's just fine. It's okay. But you know that's those are the type of people that I mean that's why it feels so good for them. Yeah. Exactly. When you when you know you drink and then you just like become overly sensitive and think about things. It's just like that's because you have a lot of empathy. And the alcohol the release of inhibition makes you like be overwhelmed by the empathy.

1:44:53Yeah. Be overwhelmed by thinking. I mean you know the world is filled with a lot of weird shit man and it's like there's all these different channels that you can do an into. All these different things that you can focus on. Yeah. I think that you know the ice bath analogy for me is like I love the clarity that I get after an ice bath and I feel like sobriety gives me that. You know it's just like it's just like this great awake alive feeling and I'm living in that clarity. Yeah it's a perfect example. Yeah. Because you have to go through it to get there. Yeah. You get out of that ice bath you feel so fucking good.

1:45:29Yeah. Why do you feel so fucking good? Because for three minutes you feel like you're going to die. Exactly. It's literally the benefit of it. And what's fascinating to me is I watch all these people try to dismiss it. And all these people try to say you know it's foolish and silly and like the one thing those people all have in common dismissers is they all lack discipline. They all are fighting it intellectually. They're fighting whatever that fucking mid -singulate cortex. And Terry or mid -singulate cortex. Yeah. There's as weak as fuck. They don't like it. And so they try to diminish the people that do have it.

1:46:04They try to diminish it. Which is just a compensation thing that people do. People are always doing that. And you know those voices are important too because those voices like you go oh I know why you're doing that. Even the gas lady people like oh I know what you're doing that. Well it's helped me get through life understanding people and that their behavior comes from their own trauma and their own past. Sure. And the thing that you hate and other people often times you hate it because you're terrified of seeing it yourself. Well that's the great lesson you know. I mean or or and it doesn't mean that here's what I think it doesn't mean that you are that.

1:46:44It just means that you're afraid of that inside. Yeah. It doesn't necessarily mean you are that. But I think that yes it's like what you're most afraid of you know because you know what exists. Because everything exists in all of us. Yeah. We're the exploded universe in manifested motion. Yeah. We are the unfolding universe every moment. Yeah. And when you get angry at foolishness that you see in other people. What you're angry at is that that thing could be it could be in you. And it is in you. It's just you haven't fed it. It's the wolf you haven't fed. Yeah. And discipline helps with that. It helps you to understand that you are responsible for your feelings.

1:47:25Yes. Yeah. You're responsible for your feelings. And also like there's things that you can do that can make life more bearable. And one of those things is physical exertion. It makes life more bearable. And the way I realize this is when I don't exercise for like three or four days in a row. Which is very rare. But when it does happen I start getting really weird and anxious. And I'm like oh my god people like this all day. Like some people like this their whole life. Where they just riddled with anxiety and all everything is a crisis. Every little moat every fucking moment is unbearable. I'm like oh this makes sense.

1:48:01This makes sense. And our sedentary weird world where people are just sitting and staring at a screen all day and you know and not doing things. So you're not you don't have you don't have meaning. Right. And then you just overwhelmed. Yeah. And then you know then you'll find a protest. Go out there and start fucking screaming in the streets. Well, I think there's more to that than that. But yes I agree. I mean I think a lot of it is that though. A lot of it is that a lot of what people protest. There's a lot of protests have like real good purpose behind them. But a lot of the people participating in those protests are looking for meaning in their life.

1:48:37And they don't have anywhere else. Yes well and you know I mean look we need those people too. We need those people to drive change. Sure if they're organic. Yeah. Again the problem with this world is that those things are manipulated. Just like. Yeah. You have to be weaponized. It's important that you don't let your emotions be manipulated. I think that's one of the great lessons in this wild world that we're in. I mean that's what I try the most. That's why I try not to make concrete statements. Unless I know at least you know where I err on is like okay this is this is the compassionate thing to support or do.

1:49:20I have a charity that I work with called Music Heels International. And it's a music school in Haiti and Venezuela and India. I think there's a presence here too and it's just I know that I can in concrete create ways make someone's life more joyful. And on a face to face basis David Blaine was telling me about I met David Blaine one time and he was he's he's a cool guy. Very cool guy. And and we were discussing that it's it's almost more powerful to be at a hospital and and go and talk to the kids that you're supporting. In this hospital rather than to donate to that hospital and sort of be I think there's just something so spiritually significant about being with the people that you're helping and the joy in that being reciprocated and that that feeling of being at the you know.

1:50:17You know just giving is is joy. Ultimately I think that's a really cool thing you know like it was a great quote a man slept and dreamt that life was joy. He awoke and found that life was service. He acted and behold service was joy. And I like that always remember that you know there's definitely something to that right making people feel good is selfish it is and it's a joy and it's a win win. Yeah it's a win win like you get rewarded for being nice. Yeah and I mean there's also I don't like I think the word kind is more appropriate because people can be nice and not good. But I don't think you can truly be kind.

1:51:02Right because if you're kind you actually are thinking you feel it. Yeah where others you're just being polite. Yeah yeah and you can be you can say the right words with like a shitty feeling to it like have a good day and you're like you. Yeah fuck you. Yeah I know what's behind that. British people really good at that. Yeah you know they're really good at like saying the right words with like a conty attitude. Yeah yeah yeah because that's part of their culture it's like keeping up appearances. Wow it's I mean in a way it's part of every culture. Sure and I for sure. Yeah I think that you know yeah keeping up appearances.

1:51:40Well it's one of the things I hated the most about Los Angeles. It's like this the hollowness of communication. That's my my bias against actors and people because I encountered so many people that were like artificial constructs. Well I loved it there when I went and I still love it when I go I mean I just lived there. Yeah I lived there for 10 years. Would you live in Venice. Okay well that's a little different. Venice is kind of an art. At least it was before it was overwhelmed with homeless people. Here's what I think about. I think about Los Angeles is Los Angeles like the cave in Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back.

1:52:20And when Luke asked Yoda what's in there and he says only what you take with you. Because you can go to LA and find any type of energy. You can go to LA and find any type of person. There's groups of really amazing people and there's groups of people who are lost. And there's different areas and there's different places that you know where these different types of people congregate. But LA is a very powerful place. It's a lot of moving play. And I prefer to be in places that are less there's less movement. I live in Maui. I have my friends in Maui. My best buddy Matt Miola is a professional surfer and he's a bow hunter.

1:53:00And my friend Ollie works construction. And when I go home to Maui I like a simple life. My friend they're all fishermen. I like to go out there and that's how I want to raise my kids. You know what I want to be out there in nature. I want to be giving and taking with the land. And I want to be able to understand the planet that I live on by working with the earth and working with. And that community in Maui there is a really special place. Well I think Hawaii in general is a very special place because it's surrounded by ocean. And I think there's something about the ocean that gives you humility.

1:53:41And they're like let's you understand that you're a part of nature. That's where we came from. Yeah we came from it. Not only that it's so huge and massive and overwhelming. It's like the mountains. Mountains have a similar effect. They're so vast. You can't have much of an ego when you're in their presence. It's my other favorite place is Montana. There you go. mountains. Other than you know. Yeah I mean I anywhere there's nature but I really like I like that's being in the mountains of Montana and being on Hawaii. There's only a few places in life that I actually am sad when I leave. Like I get really upset when I leave.

1:54:19It's like breaking up with someone you know when you have to leave. Yeah. When you write do you have a purpose in mind or you just sit down and try to find out what comes to mind or do you have a thought in your head before you write? My best work comes it just it's like a conduit. It like comes from another place and I hear I hear like a like when I was 11 I wrote this song called you were it. And I was on the school bus and I started hearing this song in my head. And I realized that it hadn't been written yet. It was something that was coming from I guess my own experiences but also filtered through somewhere else it felt like it came from somewhere.

1:55:05Like it was a download you know. And I think that I look at I look at writing as if like there's a beautiful muse sitting there and she's giving me these gifts every once in a while. And that she sends them to me and if I'm open and clear and not in my own way and I'm you know if some if I get like a something that hits me like a clever line like there's a song I have called find yourself. And I hope you find yourself before I find somebody else to be my love. And I start singing that in my head and I start like oh the melody comes and it's a gift and I don't I wherever I'm at. If I was got one right now I'd have to write it down while we were talking.

1:55:47You know what I mean I have to sit down a bit I hold on. Let's write a song and you know and but I try not to you know I can't force her to send me because they're gifts you know. And I it's like my dad always says like waiting for the rain to fill up the well you can't force the rain to come you just have to wait. And the real stuff comes when you just allow yourself to receive it. And I think I like what you just said to get out of your own way yeah because that's the thing it's like these ideas are out there but you're so in your own head. And so worried about yourself and your own bullshit that sometimes like you you block them yeah because all your attention is on yourself.

1:56:27Oh yeah I mean I'm you know and you overthink it and you analyze it and how am I gonna look yeah and is it gonna be cool people gonna like it. Oh yeah that's the big one is this like I think a lot of people get caught up in like well you know like this latest record you know people like I didn't want to be too flowery with it. I didn't I wanted to write simply what came to me and sometimes the songs are simple. And I think that simplicity for some people can be like oh well what about the intricate arrangements and what about the long jams and the exploration like that's not what came to me. Right and I can't cater to those people you know right now where my heart is is Zen it's I'm trying to be as simple as I can be in terms of just only putting out what comes to me at the moment.

1:57:18Yeah and sometimes people are gonna like it because they're used to me rocking and jamming and doing all that and they're used to me doing that but that'll come back it'll come back around you know there's there's a time in a place for everything and right now I just I have to be I have to be open to it as I'm just going to be a little bit more. And as it comes not as I want it to be or as I think other people will want it to be you know that's it right you know yeah it just have to whatever the thing has to be kind of pure in its form yeah and don't over molested with a bunch of different production values and fucking.

1:57:53Yes exactly yeah and I I prefer I mean when I listen to my heroes you know Hank Williams dad Merle Haggard. Stevie Ray and Jimmy are are look what came to Jimmy was an explosion of color and sound. I mean when I hear his music I see colors that are like I can't even describe in real life. Right might have something to do with the psychedelics that I also took but at the same time I just I think that other side of those he took and that's the thing is he goes back to what we're saying like this state of mind that he was in 100 % he captured and he put it out imagine writing food child if you're sober.

1:58:37Yeah exactly and there's a time and a place for it you know yeah you know and but you know I have hundreds of songs I've not released that I wrote at different times in my life and I'll eventually put them all out hopefully if I'm lucky you know. Yeah just go back to him and look at him every now and then yeah how do you how do you file them away do you have money on a drop box file. Oh okay yeah so like I'm there you check my couple hundred songs in there more probably now because I write them all the time you know and yeah it's like it's just kind of it's like sometimes it's like God I wrote another one it's going to go there and then that one shoots to the top of the list of the one you're interested in because you just wrote it and then something that might be really great just gets kind of.

1:59:21You push down and then like so what really you really have to do is each project that comes up you have to say what am I trying to what am I trying to get across right now and it's not about whether a song is better or worse it's about what what am I trying to say and how do I present that you know and so I have to collect 10 or 12 or 14 songs from that that kind of fit in this in a narrative that you're trying to put out there. And do you write pen to paper or do you write on a computer like how do you do it for the most part you write on your phone. I do for the most. Really. Yeah well because I have fast thumbs and my brain works really fast and when I get really excited I'll write it down there I can read it properly sometimes I'll write on a piece of paper don't get me wrong.

2:00:07I did a talk to your phone. I use voice memo to record everything so a lot of the demos that have are just voice memo to phone because my brains working fast and this thing works pretty fast. Yeah voice memo has a transcription aspect to it too now. Oh I didn't even realize that. Yeah yeah I've been using that a lot so when you work on both Android and on iPhones. Yeah but when you make a voice note it can transcribe it now so like what I'll do is I'll record sets and sometimes we do we do the show at the comedy mothership called bottom of the barrel where you have like a whiskey barrel inside is all suggestions from the audience just put your hand in there and pick out a piece of paper and pull it out it's like tomato soup or whatever.

2:00:54Right right and you just have to start talking about it try to find something in there and every now and then it's like you know one out of X amount of times you have a genuine idea that becomes a bit sure and the best way for me to fish those out is to go over the transcription instead of just listening to myself for an hour. Yeah I mean that's great I didn't realize that was a feature and I'm I'm gonna start using it. Yeah it's pretty dope because you can just talk and it'll transcribe it and then you can copy and paste that transcription into voice note or into notes. And even notes itself has a voice memo aspect to it now.

2:01:30Oh wow. Yeah so if you go to just when you're in notes on a knife on like you can actually make a voice memo. Right. Voice note from that and it'll transcribe that for you. When you're doing a set do you have people put their phones away? Yes. Yeah the club has a lot of things. We have most comedians do that right because they're trying a lot of material. Yeah you're trying material out and also you don't want people distracted it's better for everybody. It's better for the audience it's better for you and also you're saying a lot of stuff that's like not done. And if somebody releases it because they want clicks and then they put it on you do the fuck the whole bit up because it's not done.

2:02:08And a lot of bits they suck at first like you don't know where they're going. Like you have an idea and the only way comedy really gets made is in front of a crowd. I have a lot of ideas that I think are really good until the audience tells me different. You don't know really have no idea until you say it in front of people. That's interesting. And it's very much the same for you know in music. I feel like there's stuff that I try out live you know there's a song. I do a lot of new material live just to see how the audience will react. Is it feel weird the first time you're saying it? Yeah. It depends on what type of song it is too.

2:02:43If it's a song that requires focus on the lyrics you know then sometimes it feels weird because a lot of people when they listen to music they don't hear a lot of like it's hard. It takes a certain type of listener to listen to lyrics and be able to internalize them. A lot of people take the song as a whole and the melody and they hear it and they're like oh this song makes me feel good. And then later on if they like the song they'll go and listen to the lyrics. I've found the lot of people listen to music that way. And then it takes them a while to actually hear what you know unless it's a stripped down me and a guitar with no band around.

2:03:22And then it forces listener to then listen to the words you know which I actually really like doing that sometimes I like just playing just me because it then it knows no distraction around and it's sort of just me a guitar and the words that I'm saying. And I think they have more impact sometimes that way. Yeah people love that too that's one of the love acoustic performances right. Yeah exactly Bob Dylan was an amazing Paul Simon again I like you know these are people that I I cite a lot you know in this in this way but you know Sierra Farrell do you know Sierra Farrell. Oh my gosh she's on my new record Stephen Wilson Jr.

2:04:00he's another great amazing country singer song right. Sierra Farrell has one of the greatest voices I've ever heard. Oh my god yeah you got your little love for music and and and uh Stephen Wilson Jr. not only does he's a great writer he used to be a food scientist. So he was a he was a food scientist and he and he wrote songs kind of as a hobby on the side but he was responsible for like what percentage of what sort of you know you goes into making dog food. And like things like that is really interesting. Yeah and he became now he's like really hitting it off. He's he's a great artist. That's interesting.

2:04:40Yeah like a food scientist to well yeah I guess there's probably a art to that too right. Yeah absolutely yeah yeah create something delicious. Well you could be an evil food scientist creating junk food that's like super addictive. I think there's a lot of loads out there man. Oh yeah. But I don't you know do they think they're evil they probably just you know getting a job you know getting a job done. They're just doing their job. What's their job you know I mean a lot of these food companies unfortunately are now owned by the same people that used to own tobacco companies. Right or still own tobacco companies.

2:05:10Yeah that's interesting. Yeah and then they develop super addictive junk food. Family farms man family farms regenerative farms support your local family farmer. Yeah you don't have to eat junk food. But you don't but also you can yeah just don't eat it all the time. Yeah Twinkies are great. Yeah they make you feel like shit but while you're eating them they're delicious. Yeah I like I think as far as junk food goes. I'm just a good old Snickers bar. Oh yeah Snickers bar great. I don't even know if Snickers bars like really junk food because there's a place for Snickers bars. Like if you're in the back country say if you're hiking.

2:05:50Snickers bars. It has nuts. Some some protein. It's plenty of sugar in it too. Which is going to need if you're burning off a shit ton of calories. You're operating at a calorie deficit and sometimes that's like exactly what you need. You know you need like a little bit of protein a lot of sugar and you know it helps feel your muscles. Yeah and it gives you just simple simple simple calories. Well you I think I just heard you were talking about this. Was it George Foreman he's drink a coke after each. No I play may with it. Yeah I drank Coca Cola after he worked out. Yeah there's there's something to that.

2:06:25There's something that is hard as he worked out. Just like immediate sugar after exercise to replenish the body. Yeah my friend Cory Sanhagen was talking about that. Okay. And he does that. Yeah. You know he's he's a big fan of like because he's an MMA fighter and so he'll do two and sometimes three workouts in a day. And you know like if you're going to do that you have to do something after hard workout to replenish the muscles. Sure. In order to be able to work out. And the car is going to replenish the muscle. Yeah you need those sugars. Yeah you need fruit you need for. But wouldn't you want it to be like a more pure like form of sugar than the like isn't there are in there different types of like refined sugar is not you know perhaps but also the like high sugar stuff gets in the muscles quicker.

2:07:14That's the argument for doing it like right after work. Okay. Yeah. And as when what is right after is like within 15 minutes. And I think it's within 30. I think that's the argument. I mean you have to like look at I mean there's a lot of exercise scientists that I'm sure would have arguments one way or the other which is interesting so they can't all agree. Right. You know there's a lot of arguments. Yeah. But you know it also depends on what kind of exercise you're doing. You know are you a weightlifter or you a marathon runner. You know because we had Courtney dole Walter on the podcast once and she does ultra marathons and you know my friend cam hands who also does ultra marathons says like she's like one of the toughest human beings he's ever met in his fucking life and she exists on sugar.

2:07:56She eats like candy and drinks beer. It's like it's not yeah she's not like formed in a lab like whatever will power that she has that allows her to you know she's beaten people what she does like these 250 mile runs where the second place person was like eight hours behind her. Wow which is just bananas. Yeah that's the idea of like you could run 250 miles and then the second place it takes them eight hours longer than you to run those 250 miles. Wow. Yeah. That's got to be genetic slightly too. Well she's like the VO2 max is pretty high. I don't know genetic it's body type for sure you're not going to get like a six foot five three hundred pound man that can do that.

2:08:43Sure because you're you're form physically camp really. There's so much of a physical energy requirement to move that much mass and defiance of gravity over long periods of time most of those people that are ultra marathon runners are very slight small people. Like Cam when he gets ready to do ultra marathon he loses like quite a bit of weight. You know like at one point time he was like in the high 180s and now he's down to like 160 and he'll get even lower than that. How tall is he's my heights he's like 5 .8. Okay. 5 .7. So he'll get down to like 150 something. Okay. He's going to do like a 250 mile race.

2:09:27Yeah. But it's like a that kind of mindset is a crazy mindset that's like a very unusual punishment that you're going to put yourself through voluntarily. Yeah. When Chris died Chris Christopher's and died it hit me real hard and I went and ran I just kept running like forest. And I ran just 13 .1 miles I stopped when I got half a mile half a marathon. And I was worked. I was like oh man another 13 .1 miles for a marathon. That's a lot. Well you build up to it. Yeah. That's the whole thing. Yeah. It's like you know like if someone wants to work out tomorrow and they never worked like I've done this with the bottom of my comedian friends.

2:10:09I take him to the gym and go look we're not going to break you. If you're going to work out with me we're going to be very easy and you're going to maybe want to do more but I'm not going to let you. Like I'm going to make you do a certain kind of push ups certain amount of body weight squats. We're going to do a few of these. And a few of those and then we're done. We're done and I don't want you to be tired. I want you to be just a little energized and then two days later we'll do it again. And then we'll do it again. And then we'll do it again. And then we'll do it again. And then after while your body gets stronger like now I'm going to require more of you now we're going to actually exert.

2:10:37And now okay now you've got some muscle mass now you've got some endurance now we're going to build on top of that. The way I describe it I'm like you're building a mountain one layer of paint at a time. Well you know and. And then we're going to describe it. Do you do the the scans the body scans. Well Dexter scan. I have in the past I haven't done one in a long time. I just found this guy Colin Andersen 287 pounds did a hundred mile. Whoa. That's crazy. You like to break the road record. I like it says ultra large. That's the name of the little documentary. So he's 280 pounds and you ran an ultra marathon.

2:11:16Wow. That must have been hell. That's incredible. You lost at the end of the video there too. Oh my God I bet he lost 50 pounds. Just checks right here. How much weight did he lose? I'll find out. Skip ahead spoiler alert. Spoiler. Get to the end. Such a weight gained weight. No. 297. It says what any way before 287 is what I was seeing. What? How's that possible? 10 pound weight gain after a hundred pounds or a hundred miles around. What the fuck did you eat bro? Wow. Yeah. I mean, it was he must have been eating the whole time like right every few months. I can get every five minutes. Yeah. That's incredible though.

2:12:01I guess. Oh yeah. Your body probably is doing everything it can to keep the water. I mean, I can only guess. Yeah. That's pretty wild. That is interesting. That's something I didn't expect to see. Yeah. Yeah. To be that bigger run a hundred miles is very, very unusual. I'm also as guys are super slight and you know, they just keep on trucking. Yeah. Did you read that book a long time ago that came out? I think it was called Born to Run but it was like about the Taruhumara tribe. They run barefoot. And I don't remember what it was actually called. But it was really interesting. Yeah, they run through the mountains.

2:12:36It's like a South American tribe, right? Yeah. South American or even Mexican. I can't remember. I don't remember, but the Taruhumara is what they're called and they would run barefoot. You know, wild. What the fuck? And apparently they, you know, they they were they were also run which was interesting. They would run happily. They would have smiles on their faces and they'd be light and that and they said that that was that helped them sort of lightly grace themselves through the mindset that they had when they ran helped them to outperform everyone else. Well, they're probably doing it all the time.

2:13:11And you know, you're able to run that much. Again, you're building slowly but surely building on top of what you had before. Right. Like you can't. It's like if someone wants to just get out today and run a marathon. Don't fucking do it. Right. You got to blow your ankles apart. You're going to fuck your knees up. You're going to ruin your hips. Like don't do that. Don't do that. Run around the block. Yeah. And then the next day, maybe you're on twice around the block. Yeah. But you have to get better the same way you got sick. Like you didn't get unhealthy, you know, in a day. Right. You got unhealthy over the course of a long stretch of life.

2:13:46Do you run? Do you like to run? No, you don't. I've done it. I have a knee issue. And it hurts me. I swim. I do. But most of my cardiovascular exercise I do on an air -dined bike. Oh, I hit the bag. But does the bike hurt your knee too? No, it doesn't. No, because you're not pounding. Right. There's no. I've had knee surgeries, you know, from all the years of martial arts. I've like one knee that has meniscus missing. And I can run. I do. But I just don't think it's the best thing. You know, for someone who's got like, then again, there's Goggins who has like fucking zero meniscus. He's basically bone on bone just running around.

2:14:28But he gets a bunch of operations. He's on like seven or eight operations to try to correct his knees that are fucked up from doing this. They put plates in there and shit. And he wears them out like it's nuts. I, you know, I respect the guy. But that's a lot. Oh, yeah. I mean, he's ruining his body. And he's hoping that science will get to a point where they could repair all that shit without him having to do the replacement. He's like placing it on that. Well, it's like you can get a knee replacement now, right? And you'll be in significantly less pain. But once science comes around, whether they're getting closer and closer every day, you're being able to completely regenerate cartilage, meniscus and all that tissue that you have inside your knee that keeps it healthy.

2:15:11If you decide that you want to get a knee replacement, that kind of stops all that because now you have an artificial knee. And you can't regrow a knee once you've cut your knee out. You know, you can't. Yeah. And so this is why he's not doing that yet. I think he's talked about is like maybe someday I'll have to. But right now, it's just he'll just deal with it. You look like you have to pay. Do you know? Okay. You're weasel around a little because I was like get sensitive to guests like if they have to move around a little, I was like, Oh, you got a piece. Well, now let me take an assessment now because we're like two hours in.

2:15:43We are two hours at least. Yeah. I feel good. I just sort of like, yeah, I guess I just been sitting a while. Yeah, no, I do that too. I do that too. Yeah, but for people out there that are thinking about like, Oh, this is inspiring me. Start slow. But do it again. Make sure you don't just get inspired one day. Inspiration is great. Discipline is better. You know what I did, which I loved is that really helped me was in like wherever I would walk just in general. I would just do a little like jog instead of walking somewhere. I just go like just a little something just like this. Yeah, it's kind of like almost like this.

2:16:26And I'd walk wherever I was going. And and I started to do that every day. Just instead like, oh, you know, instead of walking to to get my coffee in the morning, I kind of do a little joke, you know, and throughout the day, I do that. And eventually I started like wanting to get you go out for a run. Like my body just started warming up. Right. And I kind of wanted to do that concept. Yeah. Yeah. Same concept. Build it up slowly. Yeah. Exactly. Just do something people telling you just go fucking do something. Find a yoga class. Do something. Treat your body like a temple. Well, just just for your brain, you know, you got to understand that there's a connection.

2:17:02If your body is sedentary, it's just sludge. It's all just. It's all blocked up. Yeah. And that fucks with your mind. It's a mentally unhealthy as people that I know are all terribly out of shape. Yep. And then you I mean, you know, there is a correlation for sure. 100%. You know, this is this life. This life is you've given. You've been given this meat vehicle. And you got to maintain it. It's good band name meat vehicle. Probably exists. Probably have some banging songs. It's probably a hardcore band. Definitely hardcore band. Meat vehicle. Wait, are some other ones? Oh, Biblically accurate angel.

2:17:43Oh, Biblically accurate angel. Have you seen what a Biblically accurate angel? Yeah, they look like aliens. That was pretty cool. Yeah, they look like geometric patterns. Yeah. I always wonder what the alien, you know, Tucker Carlson's convinced that aliens and devils are that's that's what you know, like angels and devils and aliens are all the same thing. He thinks that they're not visiting from somewhere else that they've always been here and that there's some sort of spiritual aspect to like the UFO encounter, UAP phenomenon. Oh, I see. Yes. Well, there's a lot of interesting pictures that are, you know, drawn on cave walls, things like that.

2:18:29Oh, we've gone over shit to them. And then also ancient religious art where it looks like people are in vehicles flying to the sky. I'm sure you've seen those too. Yeah, like what is that? Like what are you trying to? There's no other stuff that you're in that thing that's fantastical. Everything else is like an accurate representation of life at that time, except for these people that are in these flying things in the sky. Like what is that? Yeah. We just don't know. Unfortunately, when I looked at all of the credible UFO reports, the only ones that really had no explanation, I actually asked chat GPT of all of the credible UFO of all the UFO reports, which ones have not in some way been sort of explained.

2:19:17And which ones are the ones that are still like, and the one that was not complete, the one that's still sort of outstanding is the USS Nimitz experience. Yeah, Commander David Fraver. Yeah, I've had him on the podcast. Have you really? Yeah, that seems to be the most compelling. There's other ones though. Ryan Graves, he's another fighter pilot and that was off the East Coast, so the Nimitz is off the coast of San Diego. But off the East Coast, they upgraded their sensors in 2014 on the fighter jets and then immediately started encountering these things that defied known physics that were in the sky.

2:19:53And, you know, and these guys had these encounters with these things that were like a cube inside of a sphere that's like motionless at 120 knot winds and no heat signature moving through the sky. They don't know what the fuck they are. What what what what do you say to the theory that of the possibility that that is sort of black ops like idea that the SR 71, I think, Blackbird, the Blackbird. There is a there's a company called Skunk Works, right? And they were they were responsible for the declassification of that aircraft and then I think the F 111 or the stealth bombers and you know, but since then and that was like 25 years ago or more, there have not been any more declassifications.

2:20:45Yeah, it's a good argument. I just I'm curious is to like what you know what in 25 years based on the technology that we've been able to see that makes it to modern society. How much is you know held back and what we don't see. You know, just interests me and I don't know I don't have an answer, you know, I'm not asking myself whether you know I don't I actually believe that it's almost almost unlikely that we have that technology. But because I feel like it would just take so much more than we maybe cable love to cover it up, but maybe not. I don't know. Yeah, I don't think it would. I think there's a high likelihood that a lot of this stuff is ours.

2:21:31And I think one of the reasons for that statement is that this stuff always happens over military airspace. Yeah, East Coast and West Coast. Like so the East Coast stuff, the Ryan Grave stuff they're doing it over areas where these fighter jet pilots run training missions. Yeah. And then the same thing is the West Coast stuff like that where it's off the coast of San Diego, which is like tons of military out there. Yeah. I do believe that there's some programs that are operational and there's a great podcast Jesse Michaels has an amazing YouTube channel that's he's covered this stuff like really extensively and he's a brilliant guy.

2:22:03He really understands it and they were working on some anti -gravity technology in the 1960s. And most likely they continued that work. Yeah, artificial horizon technology and stuff like that. You know that that I mean is God have come far since. Yeah. And there's the idea that they could hide all that stuff. No, they could never hide it. Of course they could. Of course they could. They definitely could you being naive. You being naive as to how much the government. No, I'm only asking the question. I don't mean you. Yeah. No, I actually think pretty much that's why lean towards and it comes to that.

2:22:37I think I'll some of it. But some of it also could be from somewhere else. And I think some of it just exhibits like the the limits one. Okay, this is 2004. So this tick tack goes from more than 50 ,000 feet above sea level to sea level in less than a second. Yeah. Like seven eighths of a second. Sure. Like that's crazy. That is I and you're right. And what is that? And it does it does. Because it changes it when you remember how long ago these things were being seen. Right. Because this is 2004. But then you go back to the 1960s if they're really working on anti gravity technology back then. It's possible that they could have created a drone.

2:23:19Right. The thing is like could a human being survive inside of those things that those extreme speeds. Well, the question is like what are they experiencing in that? Because if it's a gravity device, if it's moving, if it's manipulating gravity. So it might not have G forces at all. It might be operating in a completely different paradigm. Yeah, well, there may be sort of just, you know, trillions of cack of of alternate sort of you know, momentum shifts in the outside protective layer that balance out whatever is happening on the inside. Exactly. Or you know, that using this crazy technology.

2:24:00That's also why the argument is that they're blurry. Like so a lot of the photographs, these things are blurry. It might be because they're actually existing in some sort of a gravity like void. Yeah. And what you're seeing is not exactly what's there. You're seeing it through like a dirty windshield. I've seen some stuff. How do you? Yeah. What have you seen when I was in Maui? But twice I've seen something that I could not explain the one time I looked up and about nine of us were hanging out. And we all looked up the same time to see an orange orb and it was probably it looked like it was a hundred yards away.

2:24:38Maybe 200 just floating kind of observing. And then I swear it seemed like as soon as enough people saw it. It went and then it went and it moved like nothing else. I thought possible at the time it went out of the atmosphere. And it was crazy faster than any drone. And this was back in like 2000 and 4 2005 maybe you know, so it's very we were all you know, I was maybe a little teenager. So it was probably like 2006, you know, but it was like It was crazy. I'm not telling you. Yeah. You know, and and well a lot of them happened near the ocean too. Yes, it's interesting. And another one I was out on lani and we were hanging out with some friends.

2:25:27We were laying down on the lawn and And when you're out in lani on the backside of the night there's no light pollution at all. And so you have just this big giant fish bowl of stars and most incredible. It's like you're sitting in a space ship in a spaceship. Exactly. And you feel that you're on spaceship earth at the time. You know, like you are on that rock. Her going through space at that point. And I saw this we all scared the girls. We all saw this pulsing colored thing go from one side of the horizon to the other. But in a in a very like it was like pulsing different colors and it was like really interesting.

2:26:06And so you know, who knows what that could have been, but it was quite interesting. Well, the vast majority of the ocean floors unexplored. Right. And so this is the theory is that if you were going to set up a base here to observe human beings. If you came from somewhere else, you would probably do it in the ocean, especially if you have the cut the kind of technology that will allow them to travel here from other star systems. Would also allow them to not be intimidated whatsoever by the pressures. I mean, that's I guess the deep pressure. Yeah, is what would be the. You know, it's almost the opposite of being in space.

2:26:41You know, the vacuum and then you have the deep right pressure of. Yeah, you know that. And then like, you know, but there's videos of these things going in the water and not creating a splash. Yeah. So like, what is that? Is it a hologram? So is it not a physical object? Or are they doing something that allows them to not interact with any physical thing on earth? Like some sort of a void that they travel through so they can go through the trees. This is like part of Jacques Vallais research too. And one of his books that was really fascinating was this woman observed this like egg -shaped thing.

2:27:19And when it took off, it went through the trees. But it didn't hurt the trees. But it was on the ground like as a physical object. And when it took off, it went through the trees. Well, I wonder if then you know, we're talking about like bending space time. Yeah. At that point, are you creating some sort of like.

2:27:41Warp. Yeah, you're creating some sort of warp drive. That's the idea. You know, where you're just like warping space and time around. Right. It's a centralized location. And you sort of have to be, you know, use sort of the, you know, these like different sort of exotic forms of matter and having an understanding of exotic matter, which we're now just starting to understand that there are like, are these exotic matter types that, you know, that work in these weird ways. But as we, if you read about it now, the only information available is that we're only like cracking the surface of the understanding of these types of matter.

2:28:19Maybe we are hundreds of thousands of years away from understanding that. But I mean, you know, that's the old saying that any technology that's sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic. Or is it Carl Sagan said that? I forget who said that. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, if you're looking at something from a thousand years from now, it would seem like magic. I mean, if we continue, we don't pull ourselves up and science and AI continue to figure out more compelling uses of universal energy, like whatever background energy that we have. Who knows what what human beings will be capable of.

2:28:59So you got to imagine if something's visiting us from somewhere else, especially if they have artificial super intelligence. If they've, if they've traversed this journey that we're on, if they've gotten to the point where whatever we're currently investigating, whatever they're working on right now in terms of like super intelligent AI, what if they've gone through that and there are a thousand years more advanced. All that stuff would be probably simple for them to be able to go through the water to have these transmedium crafts that are capable of flying in the air through the water. Right.

2:29:35Well, the interesting question for ourselves is, is how do we get to a place as a society to where we can trust in our science? We can trust to say that we trust it enough to fund it. That's not trust in the science that the problems the human beings that are in possession of the science. Well, but that's what I mean. How do we restore faith in that? And because there are, it's not all bullshit. There is real. We wouldn't exist where we are without the science that has brought us to where we are. Yeah, technology. And so understanding and trusting and figuring out how to restore faith in certain institutions that we have, because we need them to survive and to keep going.

2:30:28So it's like, it's like not tearing down the airplane while it's falling. You have to repair the airplane from inside and then keep it flying if you can. Is there a way to like write the ship while we're in it? I think the problem is a lot of this stuff is military funding. Right. So a lot of the applications for any sort of like super advanced technology is going to be weapon systems. And that's what everybody's terrified of. What they're terrified of is that you're going to develop more efficient ways to kill people. And that's really the only way these things get funded. You know, they're not going to say.

2:31:05No, that's the problem. I'm just saying. I'm like, how do we, how do we switch it so that we can have people in power that really are looking out for the future of humanity? And then have people that actually want that. And it's because some people are going to have to take sacrifices for that. You know, in a way, and I mean people high up are going to have to say, well, I'm going to have to, you know, get paid a little less because this, you know, it's a great struggle. Lucas. Yeah. It's a great struggle. It's the great struggle of like people in power, you know, don't necessarily deserve power.

2:31:44And the kind of people that you want running the world aren't interested in the job. Mostly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. My brother, I really enjoyed talking to you. Thank you very much for being here. I appreciate you having me, Joe. And I encourage everybody to go see you live because you're fucking amazing. Thank you. It was really incredible performance at the Makana. Hey, thank you. And I wish all the best man. I wish you spend cool being in front of it. Enjoy talking to me. I enjoy talking to you. That's fine. Thank you. Tell everybody where they can find you. Where's the best place to find your music?

2:32:17Yeah. Well, on all the platforms, of course, we were there. And we're going to, we got a tour posted. We're going to come. Yeah. That's live and concert. Oh, you going everywhere? You like? Yeah. I mean, we're about to put out new dates to for the fall. We're going to be all over East Coast, the West Coast. We're going to be everywhere. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Can't study that shit. It's hold out. Oh, yeah. That was a while ago. Yeah. Yeah. That was a, yeah. But once coming up, Charlottesville, Virginia, Allentown, Pennsylvania. Oh, yeah. Those are me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So there's plenty of stuff coming up with people.

2:32:52The one channel is going to be great. Big sky. Big sky. Mark City, Utah. Yeah. There you go. Wyoming. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. It's fun. Enjoy it. All right. Bye, buddy.

2:33:08Yeah.