#2367 - Jesse Welles

28:34Like really, really, really effective. Like 80 % for one dose in the 90s for two dose. People just quit, pills, quit everything, quit, drink, whatever's fucking with you. Yeah. There's natural tools out there to figure out, people get in patterns, right? They get in these terrible behavior patterns and they don't know why. They don't know how to get out of them. They keep falling into them because they're like tightly grooved into the way you think. And unless you can leave for a moment, the connection that you have to this existence where you're completely continually trapped by your patterns, unless you can leave and look at those patterns, you're just fighting against so much gravity and so much momentum, right?

29:19And then whatever you're the life that you've chosen, the pat you know you're around the same people your if there's so many things that make it very difficult to really change your life outside of escaping briefly and getting a look at it from you know some says like I began like like smooth out all the ruts I began so I've never done it so I can't really speak to this but from the people that have done it what they explain that does first of all it actually stops physical addiction somehow they We don't totally understand how it's doing this, but it stops physical addiction and sort of rewires the way your brain and for lack of a better term, looks at addiction.

30:03It also is, it's not a drug that you could abuse recreationally. Apparently, it's not a fun time and it's a 24 -hour experience. And this 24 -hour experience is psychedelic. Yes. And this 24 -hour experience is essentially a review of your life and Showing you like remember this happened these guys beat you up after school And then that sent you down this road and then this is why you think about this and this and it like lays out Why you're in all these different fucked up patterns in your life? Do you have a like a spirit guide? I don't know I don't know. I mean I think it's have a game council You mean while you're doing it?

30:43Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they have centers. What is the place called in Mexico that a former Republican governor, Rick Perry is an advocate of this? Right. And he went to that, is it beyond B -E -O -N -D? They have to, for a long time, they've been doing these things down in Mexico because it's legal. Right. Does that... I will ask it to do something similar. Yes. that a lot of people go down to Costa Rica and do that or there's certain churches that have a religious exemption in America Which is what what what I'm gonna church and really meet Jesus? Yeah Like for real for real New Mexico places like that is like you know somewhere where like well, how many followers you got you got 1400 all right Well don't get too big.

31:31I've been to a church in a couple basements like Really? Well, you know, the weird thing is if anybody wants to start a new church now, like good luck, they'll crawl up your fucking ass with a microscope. Like if you want to start a new church now, it better be a Christian church. Like you better be following the same religions that people have been following for thousands of thousands of years. Because if you try to cook up a new religion today, they will wake you son. They will fucking well. Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you get a good following religion. They get weirder and weird. I don't like in America.

32:07They get weirder and weirder kind of the more west we went the more We manifest destiny now because like you have like Puritan pilgrims land and you know and in New England and The weirdest of them move a little bit more west or they just go to the Quakers just go to like Nantucket you know, the Beyond an Island to be isolated, but you know, eventually in about a hundred years, you've got Mormons, you know, and then give it another hundred something, then you got Scientology out in California. Yep. Right? Have you seen American Prime Evil? No, no. In Netflix series? No. It's really good. Really good.

32:52And it's about, you know, the settling of the West, but a big part of it is the Mormons. Right. How fucking gangster the more we think of Mormons being like it's really sweet people like No, not back then. No, no, no, nothing nothing was in the West man. Yeah, it was it was death in car like like I don't know I imagine like blood Meridian like like my car these MacArthur's book were basically You know, I like fall as a story like this kid who goes on at scalping mission, you know where their their job is to go down into but Guadalajara and then come up and through the States and they just, they scalp pretty much everyone they meet indiscriminately and then take those scouts back for dough.

33:34It's, you know, for a bounty. Which is crazy. How much is the scalp worth? I don't, I don't know. Imagine that. You just find some dude who's like fucking taking care of a lawn or something like that. I take care of a car. I take care of a car. I take care of a car. I take care of a car. I take care of a car. I take care of a car. I take care of a car. I've seen that picture. It's like someone had been... Yeah. I had a top out on over this giant wound over the top of his head, which I wonder how long he lived, because he basically had like an open skull facing the earth. I guess you played dead while it's going down.

34:12I don't know. Maybe they just let him live. I don't know, man. This episode is brought to you by Zippercrooter. There is such a thing as having too many options to choose from. Like when you're scrolling on the TV trying to find something to watch or Have you been to one of those ice cream shops where they have hundreds of different toppings to choose from? It's overwhelming the same thing can happen when you're hiring and you get inundated with applications Well, it's time to stop stressing and use zipper cruder instead their innovative resume database can help you find and connect with the best people for your role try it for free Now at zippercruder .com slash Rogan, what makes zippercruder's resume database so special is the advanced filtering feature.

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35:40Chihuahua's bounty program offered fortune seekers 150 to 200 Mexican pesos for each Apache, depending on age and sex, men worth 50 pesos more than women and children and children. Yeah. Today that equates to about $8 ,200 per scalp. Yeah. So far more than most prospectors would ever make in the California Goldfields. $8 ,000 per scalp. That's crazy. Yeah. How many people, just innocent people, that just happened to have dark hair got scalped? And they would, like in MacArthur's book at least, which it follows the Glanton gang, I'm pretty sure at times they killed some of their own gang. I'm sure.

36:25Just because they were, they were dark -haired. The most prolific of these operatives was an Irish -American named James Kerker, who You let a massacre of more than 150 Apaches in 1846 and ultimately killed at least 320 Indians during his bounty hunting campaigns. Scalp trade, $8 ,200 for scalps. You imagine like if you have a lawless country, which is essentially what the Wild West was. What does that say? And then you offer up $8 ,000 every time you kill a person. Yeah, oh you can get rid of people people quick and you're gonna have the wildest of the wild are gonna go out there and tame that land Yeah, the craziest to the crazy.

37:11Yeah, and that's essentially cause them calls them out

37:19And that wasn't that long ago. No, that's what's so crazy You know, we're talking about 150 years Like what is it, but how long ago was it not that long ago? And California scalp warfare as eliminated nearly 90 % of some tribal populations. Holy fuck. Were they doing that into the 1890s? That's crazy. That's 135 years ago. How crazy is that? It's pretty wild. That's hard to believe. You are. Direct government support for bounty payouts. Whoa. Direct government support for bounty payouts, with blunt calls for the extermination of tribes and mass murder of men, women, and children, provides an important new perspective on the question of genocide across the long arc of Euro -American interaction with native communities.

38:19The Apache Scalp that FBI agents seized in 2022 is one of thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, that were taken redeemed, displayed in rare cases like this one, preserved as a part of a long and gruesome history of Scalb warfare. So it was in an auction house? That's how they found it? Whoa! FBI investigating Apache Scalp seized from Fairfield Auction House. The item was seized from the Pouline Art Antiques and Auction House as part of an investigation into the illegal trafficking of human remains. Whoa. And like when someone kept that? When does the karma come in on this blood shed? That found it?

39:13Well, I'm certain I did for the individuals involved. I just I wonder if it's generational if these things If the at the universe will continue to sort itself out Well, I think this over this time. I think this is a very unique time for understanding people You know, I think We we have to you know when people look at all the the conflict and all the the drama with human beings right now You have to realize, yes, we could certainly live better lives and we certainly have a better civilization than we have right now. We can do better. But we also have to realize what we're coming from. To make an adjustment from 1890 to 2025, I mean, this is a big swing of this fucking battleship.

40:08Unnakedizable. People were horrible all throughout human history. And I think that's what we really have to come to grips with. It's not just I mean we can go back to the Mongol invasions in the 19 what was what was it easier the year 1200 how long ago was that what year was that? With the Mongols I think it was in the 1200s You know, I mean the inquisition we can we can go to world war one world war two people were fucking horrible forever and And it's just more people are talking about it now than ever before. You know, you had universities in America, which were the anti -war movement started in the 1960s and the hippies and they were starting to get acid and realize like there's more to life.

40:55Like this is bullshit. The way our parents are living is bullshit. They're miserable and they're going to die. Yeah. It takes a long time to turn this big -ass battleship around. But I think we have to give ourselves some understanding about the past and Realize like part of the reason why we're so fucked up today is like look what we come from Right, yeah, I look at we come from I know we can do better. We definitely can do better We should do better. We should have a way better life way better society But look what we come from right we come from madness. Yeah, absolute chaos Chaos and bloodshed it's just the the ability that A person has to sign off a person in the government say yeah, okay, give him some money so they could kill some Indians indiscriminately Give him a $8 ,000 per scalp and a little less for the women and children

41:51You know 130 years ago 140 years ago 150 years ago. That's that's nothing man. That's nothing You know, that's your great grandpa. He was a lot of back then Hard to believe is far out. And really is, man. I wonder if things are, you know, probably seem a lot cleaner. As far as chaos and bloodshed now in the continental US and the union and stuff, but who is sending folks to go do that abroad to protect the homeland, you know, under the auspices of protecting the homeland. Who's doing the exact same thing? Who's doing the different way? Because I really think we stay this as much as has changed and we can measure that.

42:50We can totally camp. I think also we stay the same. You know, well until we're forced to change. Until something or until we recognize the need to change collectively. Yeah, but there has to be a discussion of it. It's not something that just organically happens. You know? I think of like, do you ever see a, this is Hollywood, but Apocalypse Now? Sure. It was a Francis Ford Copla. It's got like Martin Sheen, Marlon Brando, Dennis Hopper, Robert DeVon, all those cool cats and dope movie. But it's written on this premise of a book that was written in like 1899 by Joseph Conrad, like Heart of Darkness.

43:48Wow, it's that old. And hearted darkness was talking about a conquest of, I believe the Dutch, I'm not sure into the Congo. And some atrocities and stuff that were happening there, treating people as subhuman. I don't know if there was, I don't know if there was scalping or anything, but I think that there was slavery and that sort of thing. But, couple was able to adapt that and then put the Vietnam War as the new premise. Going into, I think they, I think, Jean's mission in the movie, at least, was to go up River and Cambodia or Laos, I'm not sure which, and take out a rogue US general who had basically enslaved the population of indigenous there.

44:55All that to say, I wonder if in Vietnam, if the folks fighting out there felt like in that moment, in that moment where you're killing somebody, if you realize at that point that nothing has ever changed, and that this is, there's something primeval in man with this violence, that this violence is innate. Or, you know, is this violence in eight? Is it, is this how folks are and there's no helping it and there's nothing that's ever going to change it? Because you can get kind of cynical that way. Or, and I kind of tend on this more idealistic and at times it seems naive or stupid to have an ideal that folks can, could live in harmony.

45:54in peace without taking one another's lives, you know. The problem is they've never done it before. I, that's mind boggling. Mind boggling. Because it is in all, I think it's in a lot of us. Deep down, I don't... Well, it has to be. Because it's not hard. It's the only way we survived. That's the only way we got to where we are today. Right. Because we existed before language, We existed before empathy, before we understood each other, before we could communicate. So any being that you didn't know from somewhere else wanted what you had. And they would try to take it by force. So the bigger, stronger one survived, and that's why the best genetics kept going and going and going.

46:39I mean, it was survival of the fittest. It exists in nature and exists with humans. And that's the basis of our DNA, unfortunately. Like, that's how we started, right? And so that the way it manifests itself today is fucking drone warfare and bombs and you know Drop and bunker busters out of B2s. You know, that's what it is or B12s. That was the B12. What's the big one? B2 Feels like it should be a bigger number because it looks like a spaceship You see how they flew it over Putin like look at my dick my flying dick Dr. Dr. Dr. You see Trump did that when Putin was in Alaska. They flew up a bomber over his head like what are we doing?

47:24Why we fly why we flying the radar resistant bomber Over Putin's head is it sounds like a show of force? Like it might be This is what these games, but I'd like Is it yeah, I just I I wonder is it within humans to exist in peace without without? Well we certainly can be done in small groups, right? Like if you me and Jamie, I've said this before, but you know about other guests, if we were on an island altogether, we would lock each other up. We wouldn't, we just, we just figured out. Like yeah, okay, I'm going to go fishing today. We need firewood. You want to get the firewood? I'm gonna go for a long jog.

48:12Okay, get that jog and get your cardio in. You know what I'm saying? Like we wouldn't, there's only a limited amount of us. We wouldn't have a need to go to war. And most war today is about resources. Most war today is about controlling parts of the world where there's an infinite amount of money in the ground. Whether it's oil or now it's rare earth minerals and stuff they need for batteries. and that's what a lot of it is. I mean, that's what a lot of conflict is in this world. And that's gross. It's scary. It's scary, but if you ask the average person, like what are the odds that there would be no more war in your lifetime and they'll say zero percent?

48:56Yeah, everyone will say zero percent. No, it's so far out. It's just, like I think, you know, the folks that go to war, You're like, if you, at least, I end up and went to Iraq and, you know, and like, oh, oh, three, oh, six, you know, and you're securing, or not, maybe not Iraq, but you're going to Afghanistan and you're securing, opium fields and stuff. And you're out there, you're risking your life, you got the gun on, you are prepared to take somebody's life, but for what? And like, we need to be on the way. We'll fight. We'll fight. We'll fight. It seems like for the sake of just for the sake of the hunt or something like that.

49:53If you ask the soldiers when they're signing up, hey, do you want to go to Afghanistan and guard Poppyfield? They've done like, what? No, I want to fight terrorism. I want to fuck her. I want to stop the people that did 9 -11 from doing it again. That's why a lot of people signed up. But then the reality kicks in when it's your standing around poppy fields with a machine gun and you're like, oh, oh, this is a scam. You know, I don't know how much internet access they had while they were over there, but they did and they ever Googled what percentage of all heroin comes from Afghanistan? The answer they would have got is 94%.

50:25They would have been like, wait. So then it takes a larger, it takes essentially a siop in order to get men to fight for the interests of the people who are performing the siop. Yes. You have to create a siop that puts a narrative out there that makes it noble for us to be doing what we're doing. Noble. We're such suckers. Yeah. It's a noble cause. What's more noble than letting somebody live. Yeah, we're less suckers now than ever before, but yes a lot of us are suckers for these narratives. Well, I'm I'm I'm a sucker for it. Oh, I am too. Everyone is did you ever read That wars a racket smelly Butler.

51:12Do you ever read it? No, it's really good. It's not long Yeah, it's really good and it is essentially outlining what we're talking about, but it was in 1933 right and Smetley Butler who when he went to all these places and did all this work he thought that he was doing good he thought he was protecting people he believed yeah but then at the end of his career when it all like the fog of war had kind of faded and he recognized the patterns like oh each time pull it up Jamie just so we can get a look at it. Well Smetley the one where there was a coup and they had asked him to they asked him to take it they asked him to overthrow the fucking government.

51:49There was a documentary I used to watch by Francis O 'Connelly, I think it's his name, but it's called Everything's a Rich Man's Trick, and he would always talk about Smedley D. Butler. Yeah, he was a bad man in a good way, but this thing that he wrote, so you can get just, if you could just sort of go to the Wikipedia site, wars, war is a wrap. I mean, this before you in World War II. Yeah, it is right there. It contains this summary. Make that a little larger, please. Eric Scroop. Who makes the profits? This is War's Reckon. It always has been. It's possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious.

52:30It's the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to be to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it's all about. It's conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the very many. Out of war, a few people make huge fortunes. Butler confessed that during his decades of service in the United States Marine Corps, I helped Mexico, especially, Tampico's Safe for American Oil Interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank Boys to collect revenues in.

53:12I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American Republicans for the benefit of Wall Street, the record of racketeering is long. I help purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1909 to 1912 where I've learned where have I heard of that name before I don't know. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American Sugar Interest in in 1916, in China, I helped see to it that standard oil went its way unmalested, looking back on it. I have given Al Capone. Oh, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. Kind of crazy. Because they've been doing that forever.

53:58And if it wasn't for this one guy writing about it, this one very decorated man who pull up the thing about the coup where they tried to enlist him, which is part of the reason why I'm sure he wrote this. He was like, what the fuck is this? Like you guys want to take over the United States government with force. Now imagine if they were successful. Imagine a military coup really did work in like 1930 or whatever it was. How fucked we would be now. I don't know. I'm being like, it's interesting how history pivots oftentimes. Like one or two crucial figures. Right. And this guy saying no to this, who knows what would have happened if he said yes.

54:45Is that the premise of man in a high castle, Philip K. Dick? Is it? I don't know. I should read more.

54:56Business plot. Is that what we're talking about? Not the coup. The coup. We're talking about the No, nothing as Wikipedia says, Koo, but business plot comes up at the end. What is the business plot? That's what I think he was talking about. This is all military industrial complex stuff before it started. Right, but wasn't there a thing where they tried to enlist him to do something? I think, I mean, this was after he was retired. He's gone on anti -war lectures. It, and I've been. Just goes into his whole career here. And Koo wasn't like a highlighted paragraph. Is that Justin Wikipedia though?

55:27Can you just see if there's anything about online because it might not be something that Wikipedia would put in? He had a whole bunch of nicknames. Did he? Did he see that whole list of nicknames? He killed a lot of folks. He got a lot of nicknames. He did with? It's so weird to see when you think about going what's that? He's a business plot. People used to have fun nicknames. Business plot. So it was a business plot. So it's not necessary like a military coup like what was the actual plot? The Wall Street put Political conspiracy in 1933 the United States to overthrow all this it is overthrow the government of the president franklin D.

56:09Reservoir Roosevelt and install smadly butler's dictator butler retired marine courts made a general Testified under oath that wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans organization with him as its leader and use it as a coup d 'etat to overthrow Roosevelt. In 1934, Butler testified under oath before the United States House of Representatives, special committee on un -American activities, on these revelations, although no one was prosecuted, the congressional commandant was prosecuted, you would think that that might put you in jail. You tried to overthrow the fucking government.

56:45These folks get away with this. But it's kind of crazy. No one was prosecuted, although no one was prosecuted. The Congressional Committee final report said there's no question these attempts were discussed, were planned and might have been placed in execution when and if the financial backers deemed it expedient. You know, it's funny that no one was prosecuted, but if you did insider trading, you go straight to the Poke. Martha Stewart. Right. No one was prosecuted for that. They put Martha Stewart and Jail for a line to the cops. But there's actually, you know, there's Congress folks that do it all the time.

57:23They made an example out of the, kind of, more of the steward, I suppose. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean, there's Nancy Pelosi's now estimated to be worth $400 million. You know, and that she's just, what a great job. It's a great job. What a great job to have. At, I should have gone into. Well, it makes you wonder when you have $400 million in your 82 years old, shouldn't you be like going on cruises and just like enjoying your time off and why are you still working? What are you doing? Lust for power. No, I really care about these people. These people are clinging with their dying breath to every ounce of power.

57:59No, no, I care. I care about the American people. Who really genuinely believes that anybody cares about us? Oh, there's some lobotomies, no pun intended suckers out there. There's some suckers out there and then there's a lot of bots. There's a lot of people that aren't real people that are Like commenting on both sides like on the internet. Yeah On both sides of it Stay out of the comments kids stay out of commentary because it's not real You're if you're you're interacting with narratives that are propped up Might be propped up by AI might be propped up by bad state actors There's a lot going on folks.

58:39It's not all people talking about things and that should be illegal. Are there bot wars now? 100 % yeah Yeah, 100 % just bot fighting against bot. Yeah, yeah, your bots 100 % It's probably a giant chuck of the internet. Are they actual bots? Are they like people in a call center? Both things like both things both things are real. There's AI for sure that people are running programs that are They're saying certain things. But there's also people that get hired to do it. There's some these pro -American sites, and then people have done like an IP trace, and they find out these people are in fucking Krochi.

59:17They're fucking back at Stan. You know, they're in India, they're in China. It's like, who knows who's doing it and why they're doing it? But there's a bunch of foreign countries that would have a vested interest and keeping America very unstable. You know, it's really good to have us at each other's throats politically. That's good for them. It's good to crush our faith in democracy and make people consider communism. And it gets really weird. You know, when you have a bunch of people that are throwing a bunch of opinions into any sort of like real important discussion about civilization, and you realize like, Like, oh my god, 80 % of the people talking aren't just people.

1:00:04They're either being hired to do this, or it's AI, or they're bots. It seems to be like manufactured chaos in order to take the air out of the room to suffocate information. Also to make laws so they can clamp down on descent. The more you can have chaos online, the more it becomes unmanageable, the more you have to manage it. Right, right, right. And the more people ask you to come in and save them, please save us. Save us from this. There should be laws. I mean, that's the hate speech. That shouldn't be legal. That's kind of the idea behind like the false flag and gun guns or like, I don't know.

1:00:49Well, that's what got us into Vietnam. I think like Vegas. Yeah. Like the Mandalay Bay thing. Like there's a lot of theories behind that one. That's a weird one. That one's gonna bother me forever, because that one actually happened while I was awake and paying attention. And it just, nothing lines up with it. You weren't there, were you in Vegas at the time? No, no. No, I was sitting in Nashville, but I just met, I was paying attention. Yeah. That was a crazy one. And there's multiple reports of more than one person shooting. and then there was like how did he get 400 pounds of equipment into his room without anybody noticing it?

1:01:33That seems crazy. Like you've got a rifle case is a very distinctive kind of case. Like I'm assuming he's carrying like you know some kind of pelican box. So like something, some snap down box. Like that's a pretty big box man. If you got a bunch of those and you're bringing them in along with boxes of ammunition, I mean, how much does that weigh? How strong are you? How, you know, like, if you had to carry 400 pounds of shit into a hotel room, that would take a long time. That dude wasn't doing all of it. That's what I'm saying. I mean, didn't like the security guard witness go on Ellen to explain it?

1:02:11Did they? Yeah, was that, was his name Jesus? Yeah, Campos? Jamie's all over this. Are you all over this? I've been all over this from the drop. Okay, there's a piece. One is one of the ones I know a lot of. Oh, well, speaking to us, young Jamie. You haven't said anything wrong yet, but there's a really good website. Someone put together called the Las Vegas Shooting Map .com. They've got tracked little, it's a Google map, but there's little dots for YouTube videos, cell phone footage, 911 recordings, photos. It's a complete timeline from the like Time before the concert started to like five days after what is the best theory about why that happened conspiracy or real Was it conspiracy?

1:02:58Give me the the juicy is one first. The first you see that you read online like especially on a place like X .com would be that there was a Let me try to word this right. I think they were worried about the Saudi family or whoever's in control in Saudi Arabia I was worried about MBS taking over. And there was an event happening that he was in Vegas for, and they tried to use this chaos to take him out. Whoa. We found out about it. And then this leads to this event happening the next month in November, where he got all the families to come to four seasons. And there was like kidnappings and extortions and all sorts of money.

1:03:34He basically was pissed that he found out about it. Oh, that happened a month later? Yeah. Whoa. I think people have heard about that event happening, but tying it to Las Vegas shooting not a lot of people have done. I just read about that part recently. Oh, shit dude. But how there's not a lot of proof of any of that happening, but that's the conspiracy. I thought I was like metal detectors in the casinos. I mean that's part of part of it. People thought that they were trying to create an event, so people would have to get body scanned in every casino. Because there were people in the state government that had stock in these security systems.

1:04:07Oh god. That's Emmy is diabolical God. I hope that's not true But there was apparently like there's shells that were found in places that were outside of that hotel room Outside the hotel room. Yeah, or up away from those windows Some people think that the second window was broken after the fact I don't make no sense this is and he died of a self -inflicted gunshot We're literally right. Yeah, so is the idea that he's a Patsy? I guess I mean, if you're gonna follow that conspiracy, I just laid out that 100 % you'd have to be. But again, there's not a ton of evidence for that one. There's some.

1:04:44Wow. Wow. Missed trees. What's the other theory of enigmas? What do I, he was getting into where it's like, there was this like tie in, you just get body scanners everywhere. That one makes sense. The funnest one I'll show you a picture of. You know how there's like a playing deck of cards that's got like every conspiracy from like the last 20 years in it. I've seen that go on or no. No, no. It's like the Twin Towers are in one picture and the one with Vegas. I'll show you. It's very, Sam triply pointed out to me. They're down. You get ever get into the Oklahoma City bombing. I'm familiar that one.

1:05:20I'm familiar. We got Ruby Ridge, Ridge, Waco. Tim doing his is saying possibly with a team. Yeah, those are all big, but what I'm getting at, what is this? This is the card, the playing deck card. This is the Vegas card. It's got this, it says that this is. It's got a tattoo. This is Jason Aldean's tattoo who was the guy on stage when the shooting started. What? It just so happens to be it's a Jack and a Ace. Now that's a coincidence, but that's a crazy coincidence. It's like how that could have been planned. Don't know. Yeah, but that's his fucking name, bro. Jason L. Dean, that's ridiculous.

1:05:59That's a crazy connection to make. His literal name is Jason L. Dean. Jay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's a microphone and a jack and a ace with the Jay and an A on it. That's wild. So that's silly. That's silly. That one needs to be shut up. That's, that's outrageous. Yeah. But it's just, When you think that someone might have done something like that someone might do a mass shooting so they could take out one dude like Blame it on this guy like how much planning has to be involved in that and then like how do you get the patty? You get this guy who's just like a Degenerate gambler that's what he was right it was just a poker player right a bunch of money playing video poker Which is like if you make that much money playing video poker They're not gonna see you play really I mean, Dana made money playing Blackjack and I'm like, you can't play here anymore.

1:06:56Like if you're good and you're making money, they say, we don't want you to do that. Yeah, they booted Dana out of the palms back in the day. That's what it was with the palms, I think. Well, it was like, I don't know, okay, see, was that to destroy information? Is that the conspiracy there? That like in the Oklahoma City bomb? Oh, no, no, there was, there was a bunch of info in the building that they wanted. Perhaps. Because I know some of Bill Clinton's stuff may be disappeared. I don't know the specifics on that, but what I was getting at was the specifics of the bomb itself. That a fertilizer bomb would not be able to do that kind of destruction.

1:07:36And that destruction was the way a bomb generally works. Like it goes from, this is where the bomb detonates and then all the energy goes outward. Right. If you are parked right in front of a building, how does the building building below outward this way. And why were there's all these reports of the FBI and bomb units pulling additional undetinated bombs from the building? Right. Look at how the building blew out. I know. It's kind of crazy. Absolutely devastation. I mean, but it really depends entirely on the size of the bomb, right? So if you have a bomb, like, see where that blue area is, like, let's suppose I think where the bomb went off, If you have an immense bomb that is right there and it just blows up and that's the force of it all around like in a sort of conical effect, that kind of makes sense.

1:08:29But a lot of people think that the amount of power that you would generate from a fertilizer bomb is not really capable of doing that kind of damage. did the and Alex Jones who was one of the first person that I have heard heard talked about this yeah he played all these news reports of them talking about finding additional bombs right like it was on the news so they were talking about the the FBI or whoever it was was the ATF in that building I believe something then maybe they would have had some information. Well, I mean, I mean, I changed some of the laws after the bombing. It's some explosives could have been in their possession even or something.

1:09:17Oh, that like it blew up because of the other thing. The light, I mean, perhaps, but they didn't say that. And it's pretty odd that the ATF offices would have just bombs laying around. Yeah, yeah, that doesn't make any sense. Like why do you guys have bombs in the brain? Well, they're studying. Yeah, we're studying actual live bombs. I don't think so. That doesn't make any sense. They're pretty good about taking care of bombs. But see if you can find anything about reports of additional bombs from Oklahoma City. They were looking for a second person for a while. Yeah, they were looking for a second person too.

1:09:52But I mean, there's also this problem with the fog of eye witness accounts and everything after a catastrophe. Like one thing that happens about events is no one really, like if you're there and some fucking thing blows up, it's entirely dependent upon your makeup, whether or not you can even objectively recall exactly what happened. Depending upon like how freaked out you are by this and how used to being freaked out you are. Maybe you're a veteran, maybe you've served overseas and like you can actually give an accurate account of this because you've been around crazy shit, but if you haven't, it's very likely that, you know, people are very confused afterwards.

1:10:35I have been totally shook. No credible evidence of additional bombs being found. Initial confusion, this is AI over you. Yeah, AI, yeah. In the immediate aftermath of the AI, by the way, that still thinks the COVID vaccine saved millions of lives. In the immediate aftermath of the bombing, some news reports and individuals speculated about multiple explosions. Okay, news reports. Why would they say that if there was no reason to say that? Conflicting reports. Some theory suggested a second, even third bomb were involved, citing nearby seismograph readings and witness accounts. seismograph. So there was multiple seismograph readings, experts, expert disagreement.

1:11:20Oh, I love when they call them the experts. However, experts, including physicist and engineers that are not named stated that the second tremor recorded by the size of graphs was likely caused by the buildings collapsed. Not another bomb. Go to sleep, America. Conspiracy theorists, some conspiracy theorists continued to promote the idea of additional bombs, even though there was news reports, often citing discrepancies in the observed damage or expert opinions. Yeah, the observed damage is kind of crazy. The Yeah, it looks like it's blown out. You know, that's a huge, huge demo job, man. Well, it's just weird.

1:12:01You know, it's, and it's his Timothy McVeigh's reason for doing it. All of it is weird. Right. Like, it was revenge for the government's intervention with Ruby Ridge and the Waco. Right, right. So he was going to take on the, I mean, how many of these? Did extremist organizations get infiltrated by the government when they find some suckers? Well, didn't they didn't they find like the folks who were going to kidnap the governor or something? It was just like wasn't it all the gov? Yeah. Yeah. It was 12 out of 14 people. Yeah. We're government agents. Oh. So then and then those two guys went to jail.

1:12:45So the two, the two that weren't yeah, exactly. And the two that weren't, it wasn't even their idea. Yeah, they were like dorks that were larping. Right. Yeah, man, we're gonna blow up the government. Fucking losers, they wanted friends. You know, they wanted friends and they found friends in these extremists and they thought that these guys, you know, they fucking meet up, talk about kidnap into governor. Like they thought it was all bullshit. Those guys literally said, they thought we were never gonna do this. Yeah. And then the feds come knocking on their door. One of the wildest ones, they radicalized this young guy.

1:13:16He was 19 years old, I believe he was in Dallas. They radicalized him and then they gave him a bomb that was fake and then gave him a cell phone to detonate the bomb and then when he didn't when he tried to use the cell phone to detonate the bomb they arrested him because even though it was fake even though it didn't work even though they gave it to him even though they talked him into doing it right they arrested him for terrorism because he was willing to listen to them which is crazy what do you do well also So you're doing it to a young guy who probably, like, does the first time in his life, he felt like he had any purpose.

1:13:53Like, he's mind fucked him into believing that he's doing this for a greater good. You know, you're mind fucking him to telling him that, like, you know, he's gonna put a dent in the great Satan by detonating this bomb and you're gonna go down in history, you're gonna be huge and he's just a dumb guy, just a dumb dude who they talk into it and then they arrest him. Like we stop terrorism. You fucking made it bitch. You made it and then the problem fixed the problem. It's kind of like the pharmaceutical industry or something. Well, it's a pattern. Yeah, it's a pattern, but it's just a weird one that we tolerate under the rule of law.

1:14:31Like that seems pretty crazy that you guys made a plot to kidnap the governor. You got 12 out of 14 of the people who are involved We're working with the government and then You know it should be like okay whose idea was it it was Mike's idea He's the first one to say Mike you work for the government. This is crazy Mike You can't arrest Tom because it was your idea Mike you fucking asshole But yeah, yeah, yeah, but I was working with the government. I mean I said I can come fine, right? Right and then he gets they all get Just disappear nobody hears them nobody knows their name nobody knows who they are they're probably doing it right now They go into the private sector there.

1:15:14They're with. I don't know who knows who knows over with the I mean who knows who was instructing them to do what they were doing in the first place. Why did you guys decide that you're going to kidnap the governor? Is there higher ups that told you this is a good idea to plot this? Like what are we trying to do? I just wonder how much within those. within even these buildings, what's the communication in a huge organization, like BFBI or something? Are there people over on floor two that have no idea what's going on on floor four? 100%. 100%. Yeah, 100%. Just pockets, pockets of intelligence, little microcosms of people work.

1:16:06you know. Well talking to people that actually work in the government they'll tell you there are people that are in charge of each individual office and they're like a czar of this office you got to get through them and they can put the kabash on anything you're trying to do and they're hiding information from the rest of the office hiding information from other agencies. Yeah. And when I was a kid I dated this girl who worked for the government and one of her jobs was was this was like really the very beginning of computers. So 91 maybe somewhere around then maybe two maybe 92 and her job was to help distribute information, say if the Navy did a study that the Army would have access to it, you know, so it was all on a database.

1:16:55Okay. So this was like really, really early on. Right. Because they didn't share information with each other. But they still don't share information. And now, though they're in competition with each other. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, some of them don't like each other. Like, there's agencies that don't like those fucking pussy's over at the CIA and those packets over at the FBI. Like, there's still like a lot of that stupid shit that goes on. There's a lot of that stupid shit that goes on just like, there's people that root for the fucking dolphins and other people root for the raiders. People get tribal.

1:17:24People get really weird, man. They get tribal with every damn thing that they do. Every damn thing that they do and that it's us again damn one. You know, where Xerox is going to take over the copying world, fuck all those other pussy's. It's like as above so below and the part, the patterns, the patterns go down forever. Well, we have the patterns of territorial apes. That's the problem. We have the consistent patterns of territorial apes and those patterns find their way into everything. Yeah. They find their way into fucking poetry slams. I mean, it's music. Yeah, music's like that. It is for sure, right?

1:18:04Yeah, for sure. For comedies like that. It is just some extent. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, certain circles it is, and certain circles it's not. But it's like that with everything. Everyone is fighting for dominance. Yeah. And it's a really gross, weird way. And I think it's just our genetics. I think it's our the pattern of how we got here for the first place and how the human rewards systems were all set up They're set up to try to conquer things and you know whether you're conquering video game development or fucking You're making the best folding phone. It's like we're gonna kick ass over Google You know everybody has their own little thing.

1:18:43They're a little realm. They're trying to conquer right and it feels great No, I don't think it does. You don't think it feels great to kick ass at something Well, I mean you want like I think certain I mean certainly does the pursuit is excellent Yes, like the most joy rendering thing that there is that aspect of it You know the aspect of crushing your enemies. I wonder how much well you don't have to have like I don't this is thing It's like playing guitars and I don't have an enemy, but you're an artist and you're not a corporation. I just I Corporation Are you an LLC yet? Did you sign up for the devil's deal?

1:19:21I did liability corporation a lot of people do so I don't have a record deal with that sister No, no, no, no when you start making money they tell you to form an LLC What is it gonna do it's like you become like a little corporation and that way you pay yourself from the corporation You can leave the car from the corporation That'd be kind of you probably have to do that someday eventually I'll be in a court maybe after this podcast you have to do that

1:19:51called bottomless wells. Mmm. Um. I, I, that's the most fun and it does seem like it is what anytime you're in a hard place or anything like that mentally or yeah, like the best way out is like find something to try to get good at or try some, you know, and then try your best at it. Yeah. I get, and it just seems innate. I think so. Like, no matter what it is. Right, but the problem is if that thing is making money, then it gets weird, right? Like if you're a whole thing you're good at and you try to get better at is just making money, that's when things get really squirrely. Because the same thing that makes you really good at writing songs could make another person like really good at being a psychopath.

1:20:44because the best way to make money is to be completely feelingless and did not give a shit about who this is going to impact. Ship all those jobs overseas, look how much money we're going to make. Do this to that. Fuck all the, listen if we don't take care of this environmental pollute and then we just let it leak out, we save X amount of money. Do that. Then that's where things get weird. You figure out the best way to make money. Like you're really good at making money and that becomes your creativity. You get really creative about moving around the law in order to make money. You get really creative about how you establish relationships with people.

1:21:20How you can, you know, make sure that laws are passed. They don't favor what you're doing. And it's a strange art. Weird art. That's a dark art. That is the dark art. It's a dark art. Snape never taught about that one, dog. Well, it's not a creative art, but it is creative in some ways. It taps into that same thing but in a very negative way I mean, I'll maybe positive for the person's bank account but negative in terms of its impact But do they even care about their bank account that like what is it to them? It's just something totally different That's the world they live in man like if you're a fucking prison warden the war the world you live in is like These are the rules in order to be the stay alive as a prison warden This is what you're gonna do if you're a prison guard if you're on the floor with all these inmates This is what you do to stay a lot.

1:22:10This is what you do to maintain order. This is what you do to make sure people listen and fall in line like that Once you're there, that's you have to do that, right? Like if you're there if you're if you're a prison guard, this is what you do and I think if you are a guy who is in charge of Like you're an economic hitman like John Perkins, you know that you ever read that book. Huh? What they do is they would give enormous loans to countries that definitely couldn't fucking pay it off and then you know come in and start extracting resources. Yeah. Yeah. I mean China does that, the United States does that.

1:22:48Many countries have been involved in that kind of shit and they're creative in that way. Are there NGOs doing that? I'm sure. Or like is that what? I'm sure. Is that what Billy G's up to? Billy G. Yeah, Microsoft. Oh, like well, he's involved in a lot of the do you give a big loan or you know give a big favor out and then take and then just take whatever you want from them after that because everyone's everyone's got notes once a yeah well it's called philanthropy or capitalism you know and that being a philanthropist is actually very profitable which is weird. No, Bill Gates made hundreds of millions of dollars off of the pandemic.

1:23:35Yeah, just from vaccines. Dude, philanthropy. It's far out. I have a song about philanthropy. Do you? It's called philanthropist. Let's hear it. Put it on there. Put out Jamie will find it. You know, like real true philanthropy when you're giving money away because you're just a kind person. It's wonderful. It's beautiful. You know, I like it when it's done silently. This is the only way to properly do it, right? Here we go.

1:24:11When I was just a boy, my mama asked me this, she said, son, what do you want to be? I said a big full am through a piss, but date as my oil, the nearness is my business, with guns as my retirement, and war as my mistress, I'm gonna be an oligarch with a whole bunch of rockets. I'd get them two sides flattened and I'd empty both of their pockets and if I got bored Harmony we ran, I'd try my hand and dabble in and social engineer And I'm gonna be a billionaire with a big foundation We used to ruin shadows but I'd come right out and I'd do the nation I'm gonna do my own laundry and a third world nation's date Experiment with the locals like some philanthropic saint and I never make it cured.

1:25:03Not get your treatment plan. You can die in slow installments and I'll bleed you while I can and I'll travel around the planet. And a big old mystery jet. What I did would be my business and what you did I would collect. If I was a feelin' through peace, just runnin' I feelin' through peace, dude. Not a whole lot of help just for myself, but I gotta make it look convincing. Yeah. Ha -ha -ha -ha. You nailed it. That's full -anthrop capitalism right there. Dude. In a song. As far out. That's a great song. It shouldn't be... It shouldn't be allowed. It shouldn't be allowed. Well, it shouldn't be that easy to trick people.

1:25:54Who believes it? That's why I'm just like who who in the hell would a lot would think that this is Good things happen because of it, but more bad things happen than good a lot of the time and you're holding an entire nation hostage or an entire Group of people hostage by lending them money. Mm -hmm. Well, that's not freedom. No You know free. Yeah, it's uh It's real weird. Because there's certain people that are like genuine philanthropists, but even them, when you're donating money to specific organizations, then you find out that most of their money goes to overhead. Most of their money goes to employee salaries, which are ridiculously high.

1:26:38And you go, oh, this is a scam. This is a clearly a scam. You aren't kind people trying to fix the world. You're profiting off of this idea of being a kind person that wants to fix the world. And you're doing a little bit of help. You're doing about 10 % of help, maybe 20 % of help, maybe even 30 for a good organization. But the reality is, it's about you. Which is crazy. Imagine if just you said, hey man, my friends sick. Do you think you could donate some money to my friend? Because he doesn't have any health insurance. And we were like, yeah man, what do we got to do? And then everybody gives you money and then you take 70 % of it.

1:27:17And we go, hey dude, what the fuck? And you're like, hey man, I worked to get that money for him. I had a call you guys. I really, I put in the time. I need some of that money. I need 70 % of that money. You be like, what the fuck are you talking about? Your friends would never talk to you again. Everybody would hate you. But meanwhile, if you do this for an NGO, you get celebrated. Right. Insane. Insane. It's real. Insane. It is insane and it's real. The weirdest thing about it is this isn't a conspiracy theory. This is real This is really how most of them operate some of it's 90 % some of it's 90 10 yeah There's good ones out there though.

1:28:01There's really good ones there where most of the money goes to the charity and that's awesome There's real people out there that are really kind people that are genuine philanthropists and most of them live very humble lives Right because that's you don't make a million dollars a year if you're doing it right Right, you just don't you know you just don't and if you are making a million dollars a year Chancellor you might be a vampire But I mean echo is all over the All over the flight logs and everything Which got which got gate. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah I'll tangled up and all sorts of stuff. Yeah.

1:28:44He was tangled up and all sorts of stuff after that guy went to jail. After he went to jail and came out the first time. Yeah. Gates was hanging with him still. Yeah. That's where many people, it's real weird stuff man. It's real weird. Because it seems that it's like once you develop a network of people that trust a person and like that and like come, come hang out with them. He's cool. You know, it's a good place to go and get your freak on. Like because if you're a really rich, like international businessman and everybody knows you are like a Bill Gates type character, you can't just go get some head.

1:29:23Like what do you do? How do you, how do you go get your fuck on? You know, what do you do? Is that what the, is that what Jeff was? I didn't know. Was he the, the fixer in that? I would just be speculating. I would just be speculating. But a good friend of mine is very intelligent. So this to me said there's people that want certain experiences and there's people that Provide these powerful people with experiences and that's how they fit into the social structure They're there to help you they can keep their mouth shut and they help people get these experiences Right, and then there's probably some sort of a wild rush of being naughty and doing things things you're not supposed to be doing, we can get away with it, because we're worth $800 billion, or whatever the fuck they're worth.

1:30:08It's trying very hard to get away with this one. I don't know if the people are going to forget. Just, people are never gonna forget. Just what is the problem? Do we have any power? What do we do? You know, what do you do? I mean, you definitely can change the way you vote. Like if it comes up again, but the problem is, this is a bipartisan issue. It is a bipartisan, it's, I don't know. I heard as a as a democratic hoax. That's yeah. I don't think that's true. Um, but well, it's certainly not a hoax if you go to jail. It's certainly not a hoax of Glean Maxwell's and jail too. So she's in jail for sex trafficking.

1:30:45Excuse me. She's in jail for sex trafficking. But the question is to who? Who she, you have to be sex trafficking to someone in order to go to jail. Yeah. So, how's that work? How she's been a jail for years. So like how's that work? Is she looking at a part in there? They gonna I Don't know, but they just moved her to another prison. They moved it supposed to be a nice prison as far as prison they moved it To killer could be But I would what why would you waste the money to move someone if you wanted to kill him? I'm sure they could kill her pretty easy. I don't know You know, but the question is does she have dead woman switches, you know what I mean?

1:31:32What's dead man switches like when trip wire? Yeah, like if I die I want you to do this for me And then whether it's in Israel whether it's in Canada Whoever the fuck the person is that you have that you give this information to you just say if anything happens to me Let this loose and then you tell them like look I have this that this and that I have all these tapes I have all these videos and if anything happens to me all this goes online So leave me alone if that were to that's a real thing that people do it's called a dead man switch Dead man switch. Yeah, that's how people maintain life if you have Information that's really sensitive they have to trust you someone trust you to not tell something that can ruin their empire of hundreds of billions of dollars and put them in jail possibly.

1:32:27They have to trust you. They don't trust you. They don't trust you. But if they know that you know that if you tell they'll kill you and then they know that if they kill you, you have the dead man switch. Okay, we got a stalemate. So let them run the fuck alive. This is mutually assured destruction. So kind of nuclear standoff with their point missiles and missile information missiles

1:32:57It's dark dude But it makes for a good spy novel if just America the way it actually really works would be a crazy novel You'd be like this is nuts like a Tom Wolf The Sentinel another yeah Just with the if you actually knew the actual facts. I bet it'd be quite fascinating You know, like we have these narratives that we assume are real about even about history. And I bet a lot of them are full of shit too, you know. Bill Murray was on the podcast, it's really interesting. And he read Bob Woodward's story about his good friend John Belushi. Right. So he said I read five pages of it. I was like, oh my god, they framed Nixon.

1:33:37Right. Right. Crazy. Well, I mean, he's in Bob Woodward. where he's known to have been hired, or at least worked with CIA and... He was in television. He was in television. And he built... He built... He built the narratives. It was also his first job as a journalist. Yeah. Which is how, how do the senior journalists not get that job? You're literally going to take down a president. I didn't see that aspect of it in all the president's men. Who was that Justin Hoffman and Robert Redford? Yeah. Yeah, you don't get that. You don't get that. That was before the internet. Like they could get away with a movie like that.

1:34:14I kind of wonder if they... Oh, listen, I'm sure this... I actually, I don't know anything about... Do you know Tom Hanks? Tom Hanks the actor? Yeah, yeah. I don't know him personally. Okay. I just wonder if every once in a while when the government needs to explain something to the public in a way that puts us in the best light. If they commissioned a movie through Hollywood and stick Tom Hanks in it, man, he's just explained so much to us over the years with Charlie Wilson's war. It's like, here's how the... Stephen Pryor has how this goes. You know, Forest Gump is kind of a nostalgia fest about the, You know Vietnam war it kind of makes light of it You know the polar express I actually don't know about the polar Well my friend Sam was telling me my son friend Sam Tripoli was telling me that and I'd heard this that during World War one They had a problem that soldiers were not shooting at the enemy.

1:35:28They didn't want to kill them They didn't want to be there and so they were firing their guns, but not even aiming at the enemy right So to combat this they started making movies and then in the movies these war movies the soldiers would shoot the enemy and they were like really heroes and So then in World War II people were much more willing to shoot the enemy Gee, not crazy. Yeah, like so the intelligence communities have been deeply involved in movie making from the very beginning because back then movies were the most powerful narrative in all of society. And there was no counter narrative, not to speak of, nothing that went global or even that was like publicly mass distributed.

1:36:12There was not, you might have people in coffee shops saying, hey man, I read this and this and that. Right. But there were small groups of people, most people were in the dark. Even if you had a counter narrative, you'd be like Pete Seeger and get like blacklisted in the 50, you know, a musician. and you'd be smadly but what you're right, who was in a the end of his career. Yeah. It's it's a wonder he survived his own, his own tell all there with wars or racket. Yeah. So it is, it didn't seem to do a whole lot, whatever. God World War II is just, you know, six years after I know crazy. Isn't it crazy though that they made movies about war to encourage people to just shoot the enemy when they see them because most people, it's probably so abstracted them.

1:37:02Like, they're from, especially if they had just gotten there from Europe, right? So imagine, if you're dealing with World War I, like a lot of those people probably recently arrived in America, right? And then now you're being sent over to France, now you're being sent over to Germany, like you're involved in a fucking war now, you're in a trench war? Well, I don't America was pretty was really not wanting to get in with World War I anyway. Yeah So was it the Lucid Tania some folks think that even might have been a false Do anything that's a long there's a long history of false flags that got us into war I mean it goes back to Nero burning Rome You know and what they did with the Gulf of Tonkin incident is what happened when Nero Let's go pull that up.

1:37:54Nero was so crazy, dude. You know one of the things Nero did? What? He beat his pregnant wife to death, and then he found a slave that looked like his wife, a boy, castrated him and said that this is my wife, and paraded this person around. Sporus. It was his name. French stuff. Yeah. And just fuck this poor dude with no deck that he had his dick cut off. And then past that guy off to someone else, and that guy eventually wound up committing suicide. Yeah, Nero was a complete total psychopath. So there was this one false flag incident. See if you can find what Nero did. You know, that was also like Hitler, Hitler burned the Reichstag.

1:38:42That was a false flag too. The Golf of Tonkin one was a crazy one because that was is what was that, 68 or something? So we had already been in Vietnam for years at that point. No, no, that was the, we, they had some limited operations. Right. But it wasn't like we're as full -scale soldiers invading Vietnam. Right, is this precursor to like, Ted of, Ted of Fence or something? I don't know, but this was the incident that dragged us in. Burning Rome, burning Christians. Year 64. During the Principate of Nero, the night between July 18 and 19, the fire broke out in Rome, but the nine days destroyed or badly damaged, the substantial part of the city, leaving many dead or homeless, rumors circulated the fire had been set by Nero, who it was claimed sought to divert blame from himself by holding responsible a new sect of aggressively prostalitizing Jews known as Christians.

1:39:38Wow. Most recent scholarship has rejected the popular view of Nero as an arsonist who fiddled while Rome burned, in quotes. Largely ignored however, has been the question of whether the Christians generally regarded as innocent scapegoats of Nero might in fact have played some role in the fire. The chapter considers the problematic nature of Christianity and Rome and Roman attitudes towards Christians in the first century CE and suggest based on this evidence that Christian involvement is not out of the question Not out of the question, but the narrative has always been that Nero did it to divert Attention, yeah, but the point is it's like like they tried to do that with operation northwards It's one of the things that Kennedy vetoed the joint chiefs of staff signed off on an operation to do a false flag event Where they were gonna blow up a drone jetliner Blame it on Cuba and they were gonna arm Cuban friendlies and attack Guantanamo Bay and It would they were doing this so that they drag us into a war with Cuba and Kennedy vetoed it, but it was signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff Right, they're like problems good, right?

1:40:46There's fucking troubles right off. I mean is this what is this what the Bay of what the Bay of Pigs is? No, the Bay of Pigs is a different thing the Bay of Pigs is after that and the Bay of Pigs the problem with the Bay of Pigs was that they planned it without Kennedy knowing. The men were already there. Yeah. And then they had air support. And that was part of their mission. And then Kennedy denied air support. And then the men on the ground got slaughtered. And so my friend Evan, who was a ranger, he believes it's very possible that some of the people involved in that might have been involved in the assassination of Kennedy because is they had a huge grudge and these were, you know, hardened assassin, sorry.

1:41:27Yeah, if that's something that you'd go in mind, people out of that operation. There was a lot of people that hated Kennedy after that. Yeah, a lot of people. We don't think about it now because you think of Kennedy as like being loved, but there's people that celebrated when he got murdered. Gee, yeah. That, I can't imagine. Yeah, yeah, well, it's like today, Like if Trump got murdered, there's people that would celebrate, you know, or if Kamala Harris had gotten murdered on the campaign trail There's people that would celebrate. There's gross people on both sides of the aisle. It is, I mean, it's a sign of Something's not good when we're celebrating just death.

1:42:11No, I feel you know, I feel like Well, it's certainly a society that's lost its way. Yeah, if that's the only solution is to kill people You know, or if you don't like how the results turned out, you do everything you can to destroy that person, which I think the most interesting version that is happening right now in New York City, that Mandani guy who's essentially like at the very least a socialist, but kind of leans towards a communist direction. Right. Both sides are trying to get rid of that guy. They're like, we can't allow him to be mayor. Bill, like, but the people elected him. He won the Democratic primary and he's like 44 % ahead of Everybody else in the process.

1:42:58So they're still you say you got to kind of fill me in. So the actual election is not until November Right, so they have the primary first Mandani won and he won over Andrew Cuomo who used to be the governor of the state and everybody thought he was gonna win right and then people like like holy shit, this communist guy is gonna be the fucking mayor of New York City. And he's promising to jack up taxes and he's promising to have like city funded grocery stores and look a lot of communist ideas. So both the right and the left are like, we gotta get this guy out of here. There's no way. But it's like if you believe in the democratic process, like this is what the people wanted.

1:43:39Let's find out if it works. So then what? Well then in a few years you get to vote again. Yeah, I was gonna say how long is the how long is mayorship? I think it's four years four years right is a four -year term for mayor of New York City It has to be right because in two years you're basically just using the time to campaign for your reelection Yeah, because you'd probably by the time you got in there. It's like 24 months later. You got to do it again, right? So that what are the what are the two sides doing to to bring him down. Talk about getting him out of the country. Those people that are talking about is there a way to expel him from the country, to revoke his citizenship?

1:44:23Yeah, there's talk of that. Yeah, people are trying to figure out any way to get rid of this guy. He is a citizen, of course. But he wasn't born in America, which freaks people out. He's a Muslim, he's from Uganda, that's where he's from. He's only been in America for a certain amount of years, and he's only been a citizen, I think, for seven or eight years, something like that. And he won, you know, like if you believe in this thing, like that's what people voted for and you got to do better. That's the, the folks want. That's the folks want. Yeah, well, the thing is, there's a lot of people that live in New York City, that live in, you know, any city, really, that don't feel like their needs are being met by the government.

1:45:04Right. And they don't feel like the government has their best interests. If some guy comes along with some radical ideas that he says are the solution, well, if the people believe him and it's not true, you've done a terrible job. You've done a terrible job of both distributing information and taking care of these people because they're looking for any kind of a solution. Even a solution that might wind up causing a bunch of corporations to leave the city and a bunch of money to leave the city and a bunch of jobs to leave the city. Yeah, this isn't. Things are desperate, right? What, the politicians really controlled by like, like three main things, like special interests, donor class and multinational corporations.

1:45:54So anybody who looks like they're disentangled from any of those things is looking pretty appealing. Exactly. Exactly, that's why he's way ahead. He said he had by 44%. Everybody else has like 12%, 20%. I think the highest one other than him and the most recent polling was Cuomo who's still running somehow or another. I don't know how he's doing it. And it's like, is he an independent? Like, how is Cuomo running? Is that what it is? Yeah. So he's running as an independent because he couldn't win the Democratic primary. Yeah. But he's still way behind this guy. Yeah. According to polls, the problem with polls is, of course, who the fuck answers polls, not you.

1:46:32I don't know, not me. I think polls are just made so that new people have something to talk about. Well, I wouldn't be surprised if they're the ones, well, they probably are. They probably go to the polls center and they say, run this poll because I got to have something to talk about on Wednesday. Yeah. You could rig them, right? So you could rig them, like say, if you went to a specific group of people that you knew leaned right and you started asking them questions on things or a specific group of people, specific part of the city that you knew is more progressive. You would go there if you wanted to rig polls.

1:47:06And then you push that narrative out. This is how the people feel. It's like, okay, but who's answering? A very small percentage and mostly dopes. Mostly dopes are answering polls. Sorry, if you answer polls. But most of the people have nothing else to do. Because if you call me, I don't ever met anybody who's answered polls. Bingo. I met a lot of folks. You met a lot of folks. Exactly. You ever met anyone who answered polls? No, and the presidential polls are the weird ones because sometimes they're wildly wrong. And yet somebody got paid to make those polls. I think it's the news. I think the news is an incredibly lucrative business.

1:47:41It's an entertainment business. There's not news every day. There's nothing just, and they got to run 24 hours. Yeah. They're making up, they're making up, they should call it the old, because it's always the same shit happening, man. Yeah, like it's not even, yeah. It doesn't matter where you, where you getting it either, it's it. It's also a lot, I mean, CNN tried to separate themselves from that when they realized it was like financially kind of devastating to the company to have like really bad editorial comments, which is what they did. So they got rid of all their head newscasters. Okay.

1:48:20Because everybody was terrible and everybody hated them. So they just got rid of most of them. Right. And they tried to go objective with the news. But the problem is like, that way people aren't outraged. And the only way people are going to pay attention now, because you spoiled them. You gave them candy. And you can't give them filet mignon. And like, this is bullshit. I want cheetos. I want snacks. Right. You ruined them. And you gave them this for decades. And so now, if you want your ratings, you have to give them outrage. You have to have a bunch of people yelling each other on TV so they pay attention.

1:48:51And like the I feel like the most Like colorful people that they would have had on their things have gone indie now You know like like Tucker Carlson has His his podcast and like Let's see Candace Owens was with like daily wire and now she's like got she's got her own Yeah, and there's and then they're smaller. They're smaller ones. You got like Breaking breaking points is one. You know, the real problem is the left ones never succeed once they're fired. The people that leave CNN, they're always like dismissed. Well, the talent, I mean, we've had to be talented to do that. To sit there and look at a camera and just talk for like hours about, you gotta be really talented.

1:49:45So you're really dedicated and you have to, you have to understand how people receive what you're saying too. And the problem with like a CNN type job is that you're being told what to do. You show up, you read the news as written by these people. You have a teleprompter. You really can't stray very far from the narrative. And you're allowed to elaborate inside the narrative as long as it fits with what CNN is trying to promote. Right. And as soon as you deviate from that, you're cooked. You're gone. Yeah, so then there's really no crew. There's there's not much career So are you after that? Yeah, because once you leave everybody knows you're a propagandist Like no one's ever gonna really truly believe you and you weren't coming up with anything yourself It was all fed to you exactly Exactly and then we also watched as you did Elaborate on your own about whatever you thought about the narrative.

1:50:42You're a dope You're a dope that's only on television because they put you there You're not like you didn't rise through the ranks like this is one of the most interesting people I've ever heard talk on television like no, it's not that at all. You're not sincere. You're you know, what people like is authenticity. You know, you want to know that someone is actually telling you what they think and you don't get any of that from them as soon as you don't get that from people you never want to listen. Would you believe Tucker Carlson or not? He's being authentic like what he's saying he believes.

1:51:15Right. This is who he is. And that That's why he works. That's why it works outside of Fox News. Yeah, those folks, all these folks to do, I think even Bill O 'Reilly, after he got kicked out from broadcast, he has, he's got his podcasts and stuff. If they really believe they're stuff, man. Yeah, whether they're right or wrong. Yeah, well, it's not about that. I feel like the public has to understand that at the end of the day, these guys are, whether they believe it or not, this is entertainment. These guys are entertainers. They're telling you stuff, they're feeding it to you, and you got to take things with a big -ass grain of salt because this stuff is entertainers.

1:52:05Well, there's definitely that aspect of it. And if you're not entertaining, you're going to get it removed from your job and you're gonna get replaced by someone who's better at your job or hotter. You know, someone who's got a nice rack and a short skirt and who's really good at talking. Like, wow, I really want to watch her talk. All right, I guess that's for the cable folks or something. Yeah, I mean, that's part of the gig, right? Like how many of those ladies on Fox News just look hot as the sun, while they're telling you whatever the fuck they're supposed to be telling. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

1:52:41It's a special kind of hot too, that like ice queen hot, that's a, that Republican like hard -nosed hot. I don't get it. I don't get it, man. I don't get it.

1:52:57That's the, that's the cheapest, that's the cheapest thing they can pull over on the new station. This is to have sex appeal. Yeah, but they've always get it. I mean, that's how they sell cars, that's how they sell everything. People use that for everything, because we're dumb. I'm optimistic. I mean, I think we're gonna wake up, and he's saying, I don't care what the hot lady on Fox says. They're murdering people. Yeah, you know? I'm optimistic, too, and I think you're right. I think we are doing that right now. I think believe it or not, your songs are a part of that. You know, whatever percentage you reach, it's not zero.

1:53:41There's people that you reach, well, that united health. How many views did that get all told? I don't know. Has to be millions. It got a lot of millions and millions and millions. I know, I send it to a lot of people. Thing, the tunes get, they get passed around. Some of them get passed around. Did I repost that? I reposted it, right? Yeah. Okay. If I repost it I can find out how many people just saw the one that I reposted. That would be a lot. It resonates man. It's like people are fuck, how long ago was that? When you shared the list that one blew up too. Yeah I was going to. How long ago was that being that health one?

1:54:19That was in December. What is it Jimmy? You posted it eight months ago. Eight months ago. It was going to take a while because I'm a chatty caffeine. I posted on December 15, 2024. Oh, that's not that long ago. Okay, so here's Federman. That's around that time. I'm excited. There ain't no you. Come on, Cox, I'll go where are you? There's no shortage of stuff to make to make tunes on. How do you decide what to make tunes on? Do you just sit and when something like resonates with you and pisses you on on? Something yeah, when when something is like, you know, G G. I got I got something I could say about that um Then that's that's when that's when you do I can't find you to but I know it's on here.

1:55:17How would I how would I search for it? Because you're trying to see the views you just found it here we go. Sorry. Okay, if you insights

1:55:306 ,742 ,803 views. The watch time is three years, 104 days, 17 hours, 13 minutes, and eight seconds. Oh, it's got too much time on there. There's a lot of people on the toilet right now, bro. They need something to listen to. You ever go to the toilet without your phone? It's weird. You just sit there like wow I'm alone my thoughts. His face walk without oxygen. No one knows how to do it anymore. Yeah, it's um, read the Dr. Bronner's bottle. But the thing is like that, the six million plus people that hurt that like that, that affects the narrative. And then you know, the list one that affects the narrative.

1:56:17And this one that you did on philanthropy, that affects the narrative is there's, everyone's like throwing their coins into this big pile and trying to figure this out. And it more so now than I think has ever happened at any time in human history. There's more discussion. It's just we're so upset that it's not fixed. And it's on its way in the right direction I think. It's just not satisfying the pace in which progress is happening. Everybody can get on now too. I mean, like that's, it's just, like I prop up my iPhone and like play a tune. Everyone can just like get and phone in front of their face and like get it out there, you know?

1:57:06Yeah, yeah, anyone can now, which is great. I mean, it's allows guys like you to just all of a sudden have a following. You know, all you have to do is have some talent, some talent, some creativity, some hard work. Bam, there you go. It's kind of cool. I mean, that's the beautiful side of social media. There's no rules as far as especially in the music industry and stuff. There's no rules anymore. Anyone who tells you that they know what to do or that they know what they're doing, they're so full of shit, dog. Nobody knows what they're doing. And like we want people to know, because we want to ask, like, like what could I do to, you know, to have to be successful or whatever?

1:57:47Then nobody knows. Nobody knows. And there's no gatekeepers or anything like that. All you have to do is want to play music. I get, yeah. And then go and do it on your phone and see if anyone likes you. And if they like you, you're, you know, that's good. Yeah. Then everybody will come to you and say, I know how to make this bigger. And they don't know what they're talking about either. No, they're generally their vampires and they're trying to take a piece. Yeah. They're trying to clamp on to you. Oh, they come out of the woodwork. Have you had people offer you a bunch of money? Not a bunch. But they'll offer you a little for a lot.

1:58:26A little for a lot. They want your future, right? Yeah. They'll go, you know, here's, I mean, they're all sorts of folks in the early days coming through labels and stuff going. Here's we'll give you a 10 grand for like 30 songs or something like that. It's like this is insulting. Yeah, I don't want any of this I don't want any I don't need any of this all of ranting He was going through that right after Richmond from Richmond right Richmond North of Richmond Yeah song came out like they just came after him all this money. Oh, they will They will this money. I'll give you so much upfront and you don't even, like if you don't know, it's just a big ass loan that you're never gonna recoup.

1:59:10And then you're not even, you're not living off your own dough at that point. You just living off a borrowed money, like everybody else in the States. And you're attached to them forever. Yeah, you're attached to them forever. They just, they own your masters, you'll never see it back. I mean, I signed to a label when I was like 22, I've been through that all that quality now. I'm 47. Are you really not great? No, I'm gonna be 33 this year. But I believed you. I was like, man, kids living good. No. No, I'm just jocin' you. But you know, this is a new time where you really can become hugely successful and get a gigantic following with no one attached to you.

1:59:54Yeah. Where you don't have to have all those people put, they're not going to help you. No, they don't. Too many cooks in the kitchen. way too many people want to eat at the dinner plate. And dude, when anybody gives you like if label comes in, let's say Chris took, let's say he took the deal, you know, or whatever. If all of Rant then he took the big deal. Then he's got all these people up there in the office with tax write -off MacBooks telling him what to do with this music because they open their wallet. And they're going to have to give you notes. their entitled to give you their opinion at that point and you wouldn't be able to just do whatever the hell he wants to do.

2:00:35And I think it's so important for artists to be able to do whatever the hell they want to do because that's the only way they can be themselves. And then that's the only way you can be successful is to completely be yourself at all times. 100 % nothing but yourself. And you see that one thing that does happen when people do you take the money is that part goes away. Because even though you think you're kind of sort of being yourself, everybody knows you're not totally. You're not totally being yourself anymore. And Doe will change your life in a way that you might not like be ready for something.

2:01:09It's gonna, you can think, I got this Doe. Now I can leave this town I don't like or I can get the house that I was wanting. when it was really, it was being in that town and kind of having things difficult pressures around you and stuff that was creating these diamonds that was putting you in this situation to make good art and stuff like that. And you take away all your discomfort and then realize you can't make art and you're not happy. And then you start getting nostalgic about the good old days when you were broke and shit like that. It's just it's better. It's it's better to just take only what you need Well then there's also the problem once you become successful of worrying about not being successful anymore About maintaining it that's true.

2:01:59I'm sure I got to keep this going like I can't I can't fall off But if you can be less successful I can't I used to be poor and now I've got money I gotta make sure this doesn't go away and how you measure your thoughts and you measure you're measured in what you say. No, no, it's, your measure of success is like, how much can I be myself and be happy, be happy that way? If you can still be 100 % yourself all the way to the end of the line, then that's your success. Yeah. That's a smart way of looking at things. Most people look at things in terms of like, what is the way that's the most profitable?

2:02:41You know, so they'll avoid certain controversy. But we know that the like we know even from talking about like people whose business whose art is money it creates misery to be chasing The bank account to constantly have the dough you know like you create a wake of you create bad art All right your album starts to suck You might be getting in bigger bigger places and stuff like that, but yeah, it's gonna it's gonna fall off and when it does you know Then then then you have like some existential problems to deal with at that point. Well, there's always the devil's bargain right this Fucking stories as old as time That's the Robert Johnson story, right?

2:03:27I thought he sold his soul. He's yeah, yeah Van Halen definitely sold his soul to the devil. You think so? No, I don't like any Van Halen dude What you look a little like Eddie Van Hill. I fucking love Eddie Van Yeah, he's the man. Oh my god. He was the man. He's the Robert Johnson of the the late 70s Haven't Angus Young sold his soul isn't it funny though that that story was like Always around the story of selling your soul. Yeah success. Yeah It's an interesting that's metaphor It doesn't but it doesn't make any sense as far as like Robert John is like he sold his soul I guess so he could play and then not be successful in his lifetime and die poor And then we would all find him later.

2:04:11I think the thought was that he was so much better than everybody else There's no way he could have gone that far ahead without some help right he's spooky good Yeah, he's spooky good. He's working in the future, but that's always there's always guys like that like Hendrix Yeah, anybody sold their soul it's Hendrix. Yeah, not that I think he did But it's like when that guy came around everybody was like what the fuck is going on And every generation there's a player man. Yep. I mean, maybe you could trace the line Johnson Hendrix that's skipping a few But to Hendrix Avian Haillin and then you've got like Steve Vy and Joe Satchionny and like these These virtue these virtuosos Steve Irvon so important to Texas to Stevie We have a photo of him on stage at our club because you know, I own this place that used to be a theater that he performed on.

2:05:04Okay. And there's a photo of him on stage in 1983. So as you're walking to the stage, there's a photo of Steve Rive on stage. And he back. Hey, so cool. I don't know if you've seen like him at like Austin City limits slinging his guitar behind his back. I'm playing with his teeth. He's got all his scarves and stuff. I almost got to drive him once when I was driving limos, but he wouldn't take limos. What did he want? I drove Jeff back. He wouldn't take limos. He only took caps. They'd get him a limo and he's like, eh, I'm getting a cab. He'd hop in a cab and talk to the cab driver. He didn't want to be Mr.

2:05:38Fancy, and a fucking limo. Yeah, and that's cool. It's all to the earth dude. I was pissed though. It's like fuck. I almost got to drive Steve Ravel on. And as long as one of those talents, every generation is... But it also shows you how dumb limo drivers are. like the companies, like you let a fucking psycho like me, a 21 year old maniac drive one of the greatest guitars of all time, like I was a bad driver. Like it was a reckless kid. Like all of a sudden I had this job driving limos because I wore a suit, like you're gonna trust me. Well, I was Steve Irvon. I mean, safer than the helicopter pilots and stuff.

2:06:18In the end, yes. No, I'm just kidding. I mean, I was a good driver when I was driving limos. But it's kind of crazy. Thank you. But it is kind of crazy that they let a 21 year old me just at the at the helm of a car with one of the greatest musicians of all time. It's always it's fun to think back on that. Like when I was when I was 18, I did a radio program for Katie Y .N. real country radio every Saturday morning. It was called dial a deal where people call in as basically like an on air Craigslist, you know, but I was alone at the station after football games, you know, football game would be like Friday night, go to bed, all beat up, wake up at like 5 a .m.

2:07:01go into the station, record the obituary's real quick, because those are going to run on on Saturday. And then and then do like a, you know, an on air Craigslist radio program and you're just like 17 years old with the entire radio station to yourself. You know, I was a total dumbass too. I could have been like, anyway, here's grandpa and grill road, you know, but did you have a specific list of things you're supposed to play? The list was like programmed in and then you had to record weather. So you would pull up the national weather service on the on the screen and then you would record yourself doing the weather saying, you know, when's it going to be southeast southeast northwest out of the 15 miles an hour or whatever.

2:07:46You do the obituaries. but no you didn't actually DJ it was just like you would hit the space bar music would start playing be like okay folks if you can't tell by the music I'll go ahead and tell you myself it's time for dial it deal remember our numbers appear 6 6 7 4 5 6 7 or toll free at 888 325 Katie Yann it's 8888 325 Katie Yann remember no commercial real estate advertisement please let me go calls to once per program and keep in mind I can't always keep track of these numbers up here myself. So if you remember him on your end, you're doing me and you a favor. Let's get back to the dial in at a deal and then people would call in and they'd be like, I'm looking for my dog and I'd be like, somebody find that dog and then, you know, list off their number or...

2:08:33Did you ever play any of your songs? No. No. It was a classic country radio station. So I'm up there listening to like Willie, Whalen, Hank Senior, Hank Junior. And then also they were playing, they were playing like some modern, like I remember Brad Paisley was being played on here and he just shredded, but no, I couldn't, I couldn't, I was in a grunge band at the time. I couldn't play. Well, you're really? Yeah, I think that, yeah, the, I couldn't put, once I printed out this track listing for the record that I had made, I would make CD records and sell them at school like five bucks a month.

2:09:12I made more money if it's selling records in high school. I ever did it as an adult. I printed out all the songlists. Anyway, the album was called Mama I'm gay. I left a bunch of them at the radio station. I remember the guy who was running, he came to me and he was like, did you print these out are these yours and it's just kind of awkward after that. Small town in Arkansas. Far out. That's funny. But you know, folks, folks will let a young person do all kinds of stuff. I guess they see an aptitude in you. They trust you so they let you drive a limo. I think they just needed a job. They need someone to do the job.

2:10:00It's that simple and most people would only temporarily keep that job and they would leave right right high turnover Yeah, yeah, there's high turnover at the radio station because we were making a dough right you know The dude here was this this was in 1927 2010 I I didn't do a lot of radio when I was young and doing the road. So I do like morning radio shows in the middle of nowhere. And it was the only way to promote things. So if you're going to do some gig in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, you get on local radio, you tell everybody, drive time radio. So you're on the air at like 630 in the morning and let everybody know you're going.

2:10:46Radio was a weird thing, man, because it was like a local connection and all that stuff is kind of gone now. You know, local connection used to be fun. There was something about listening to the local radio in the morning when you're on your way to work. That was kind of cool. And you knew that all most of your friends were listening to. They had a program called like, I forget what it was, but on every morning they would go through the sponsors of the radio station, which were all local businesses. And they would say, here's a cup up a coffee for Burns Drug. And it was just like a call out to Burns Drug, Burns Pharmacy or whatever.

2:11:26And then you'd hear the sound of a coffee cup. The obituaries ran, you'd listen to them, you'd be like, oh, Janine died. Damn it. We had to go to the memorial. They would tell what the hillbillies, like the mascot was the hillbillies. And like how high school football was doing. And stuff like that. I wonder if anybody is creating that in podcasts. I wonder if whenever's any good local podcasts that are just about the community That you could like tune into every day like here's the news, you know I might have to start one. Why not this local anonymous local. Yeah, just don't even say it's you Make up another name.

2:12:05Yeah. Yeah, this is Bob butts and people go I know that is not I'm not who you're gonna do a different voice. I know you But you don't know me. Are you gonna change your voice? You should do that. No, I gave a local news I got one of those things like an FBI informant. We went into the house at 4 30 You know, you know what I mean? Those people in TV with their face blocked out Those vice are you sure that the government was involved 100 % they had to know The information came down from the top the other face is they can get him killed.

2:12:53How many, do you do a lot of live gigs? Yeah. How many live gigs do you do? Do you do like in a week? Do you do a bunch? Like how do you do it? No, I just scheduled tours. So like tomorrow I'll announce a tour and I think it's like 20 something dates and then I'll go out for two months and play, you know? You just play solo you bring a band. Oh, that's a whole band And then right now I've just been in festival season. So I just played the Newport folk fest Shout new port. Do you do any of these songs like United Health? Oh, yeah, you do all them. Yeah nice I got because I'm just always putting out albums like yeah like on Friday I'll put on another record too How many albums do you have so far like five or six?

2:13:43You know count I wrote like a hundred songs in 24 and just like put them all out and that's what's great about being Indie is like you can just just put out music as soon as you make it right so So there's but there's a lot to choose from right usually you know on this set I'll play a lot of these a lot of these topical Ones and then bring the band up and then we'll play the other records that I got But no, it's just that new, new, new port and then we did Edmonton folkfest and hearing a little bit, I'll do farmaid and healing Appalachia. Farmaid was like last year around this time, John Cougar Melling can't send me an email and was like, Jesse, I would like you to play at farmaid.

2:14:35But it was from a weird email address and I didn't believe it was him. but it was totally him just like emailing through his like girlfriend's email or something. That's hilarious. And so I like I showed it to one of the like one of my friends he has managed and he's like I'll bet this out we'll see if this is legit and sure enough it was anyway go down to far and that's like one of the first gigs that I play as this iteration of myself. But you know, it got to meet a lot of cool people and get to be friends with a lot of them too. Lucas Nelson is very cool to meet him last year and now I think we'll be doing a tune together here before too long.

2:15:24but nice. Him, I got to meet Charlie over there at FarmAid. Charlie Charlie Crockett. Oh, Charlie's awesome. He's super. I really enjoyed talking to him. Yeah, he's great. He was a great guest. What a wild life that guys live. Yeah, that's like that comes out in his music. There's something about like hard living, like living an authentically difficult life that like you hear it in the way they You hear it, it's real. There's like an intangible element to certain songs. You know, it's how it be. Well, AI is not going to fix that. You know what I mean? AI is not going to overcome that. No, I don't know.

2:16:09Maybe the only thing that AI is not going to overcome. I don't understand why musicians are... You know, they're making, like, let me, I'm gonna send you something, Jamie. I don't know if you've seen this, but they made a female indie, like emo, whatever it would be, band lady. And it's really fucking good. Like you listen to it, you know, like holy shit. I sent it to Patrick from the Black Keys, Patrick. Patrick Cain. And he was, his answer was like, Pop music is AI has been for a while. Good thing I suck at drums and make it human. Yeah. I'm gonna say this to Jamie, because you hear it and you're like, oh my God, this could be a fucking giant hit.

2:16:59And the crazy thing is that AI makes this in seconds. Right. I mean, in literal seconds, like you watch this guy put in the prompts, you watch it make this song, and then you listen to the song and you're like, Oh my god, and it's better than most of these songs. Like listen to this. Create a square avatar of a fictitious female alternative slash indie singer and a name for her. Wow, Sadie Winners. Sadie Winners, okay. Song is about walking away from someone who never really saw her worth. She was gonna create the song lyrics. Look at that. Wait, how many seconds was that? That was like about four seconds.

2:17:40Look at that. That's got a bridge. Did you even read any of these? Because if you don't care, I don't care. Put my lyrics in. The lyrics that happen in four seconds. Yes. And then hit create. Let's listen. This is the world premiere. I was paid for it. You were scissors cut me out.

2:18:03She's good singer. Good singer. You're still there. I'm sorry. I think you were fine. Ooh, that's nice. We're really good. Where are we Rick? Where have we found ourselves? How crazy is it? Look at that. Jewel even says Jewel goes, wow, it's a great melody. Yeah, listen. Everything that can be replaced will be replaced. Okay. And pop music was already, I Patrick has a great point. Yeah, I don't think artists, is what you're making. I don't think you got nothing to worry about. Well, it's not a worry. I mean, for some people I'm sort of to worry, but it also is just a concern that there's a new element of society that there's creativity is being replaced in at least a form in front of our eyes.

2:19:02Regardless of what you think about pop music, There are some people that are making pop music as a creative endeavor and that just did it way better than they do and did it like Like that. They'll have to find something else to do to find something else to do I don't think listen to something else in JC penny

2:19:22Who still goes to JC Vetti are they still around? Yeah, you're a JC penny. Yeah, that where you are I go JC penny. I'm not knocking it. I'd go if I needed something I'm saying I haven't seen one in a long time. You know I see targets everywhere. I don't see JC Penney. I just say the music like that always. Yeah, I feel like I'm in it. Yeah, I feel like I'm in an academy or. Yeah. Right. You're buying sneakers somewhere. It just needs something to go in the background. Some non -confrontational music to carry through. But what you sound like thing is right, that if you can be replaced, you will be replaced.

2:19:58Yeah. All things that can be replaced will be replaced. It's how it has always been as long as man has been around everything that can be replaced will be replaced But there are things that are irreplaceable right Yeah, I mean that's kind of in every Every new iteration of technology we're seeing things get replaced right like when I was a bit a kid VHS was the newest technology like oh my god. You could watch a movie at home Yeah, no one ever thought blockbuster was ever gonna go away. Of course. There's always gonna be a blockbuster Every Friday night, everybody goes to a blockbuster to find a movie to watch.

2:20:32Gone. Doesn't exist anymore. Gone like that. Like real quick. Streaming, internet speeds, pick up, it's over. Yeah. I mean, remember records hails? Oh my goodness. They would make millions and millions and millions just from selling records. Now it all went away. Napster came along and some people freaked out and some people lost a lot of fans because they freaked out too, like to try to stop the tide of inevitability. I mean, didn't. Heffield and I mean, Metallica was eventually kind of right about what they said about Napster right? Oh, they knew. Yeah. They knew what was going away. Yeah. It was all going away.

2:21:10I mean, everybody kind of understood that this is, if you're logical and objective, you could pretend like, no, don't worry, we're going to be fine. But if you're logical and objective, you go, oh, this is just the first bullet that landed right in this never -ending war right with with digital Information like you you're not gonna be able to prevent this from happening. Yeah, I think the record companies have figured out how to make money off Assuming and to make sure that the artist probably doesn't get all that much of it Well, this is the beautiful thing about being independent if you're independent You can make money off of streaming and if you're independent you had all of your touring road No, which is really where it's at you had all of it There's making up to pay for another door.

2:21:54Well, it depends on all success. But this was really crazy about some of the deals that some of these artists are signing where the label gets a giant percentage of their touring money, which didn't used to be the case. It used to be like an artist. So I find a way to pull it in somehow because they're not selling the records. Exactly. They get a piece of merch. They get a piece of this. They get a piece of everything that they've shown you. Yeah. And what value do they provide other than you getting the security of saying, I'm on Warner Brothers. Just standing in the way every time you try to put out an album, they go, I don't hear a hit here.

2:22:26It's like, well, because there are none. Okay? Wait for the next record. It's out in two months, you know? But they want to make as much as they possibly can off a one record and the one record. It puts an immense amount of pressure on an artist without developing the artist at all.

2:22:47What's honoured? The music industry is a shallow money trench where good men die like dogs, you know. It's a racket. But don't you think that now less of it? Because there are people like you out there. There's quote, you know, Tyler the creator didn't even make most of his Everything was just created by himself online, right? I don't know. Isn't that the case? You don't know? You don't know? But you... I think that's too hard, I don't know who knows. Was it a weird one? I'm a specifically, I don't know, but I would say, folks, that's the story that's being told. Okay, but some people have done it, right?

2:23:23All of your Anthony for sure did it. Yeah, yeah. And it's, you know, it's a new pathway. If you have something that really resonates like your United Health song or any of your songs, like that's all you need, you know? And then that one thing could change everything and then people listen. Mm -hmm. Totally. Yeah. And the fact that you're able to do it completely independently, you're able to have like a truly authentic voice like it's like when you sing about who's the guy that created it that doesn't give a fuck what's his name? Richard T. Burke. Yeah, Richard T. Burke. But you can sing about Richard T.

2:23:59Burke doesn't give a fuck like it's No one's in your ear. Nobody's telling you to be careful. No one. Yeah, yeah. So like I'm hearing I'm like You know it it people know they know when something is off and it's real weird They're fucking the way people tune into a song It's There's something going on with songs, you know, it's it's not just Like a bunch of music and a bunch of lyrics like it changes the way you feel. Yeah, it's a drug Yeah, it's a weird like a good song. It's like a good drug. Yeah, dude. Have you heard free bird? Oh? Oh, fuck yeah dude. I've heard that song about a thousand more than a thousand times.

2:24:41Yeah, a hundred thousand times maybe. Yeah, if you don't think music's a joke. Listen to a few bit of this. Listen to that fucking guitar solo. I don't know what the devil. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Whole lot of love. Don't own the known, don't. Yeah. It's a fire dog. It's a dog. There's songs that change the way you feel that if that was a drug, that would be a very valuable drug. Yeah, you know they're little little mood capsules man. Yeah, I want to film Mel and call he here's yesterday by the Beatles Yesterday Yeah, there's a bunch of songs like Captain Jack You know Captain Jack Captain Jack will get you high tonight.

2:25:25Oh, I was thinking it. It's really old fantastic Captain Jack is on a Billy Joel's greatest songs. It's a great fucking song. He's a guy living on my island It's great. It's a great song. So you listen to it, you're like, God damn it nailed it. He fucking nailed it. He's one of the greats, man. Dude, I really appreciate you coming in and I really love what you're doing. Thanks for having me. I just wanted to want to have you in here. Shoot the shit with you. See what your process was and how you think about things. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for having me, Joe. My pleasure. Tell everybody what's the best place to find you and find your stuff.

2:26:04I'm online. So go get online. What is your Instagram? Welles music. Welles music. There it is. W -E -L -L -E -S. So it's wellesmusic .com, tour dates. We're all there. Yeah. Go out and see him. Support. Dude, continued success and best of luck to you. I really enjoy what you're doing. Thanks for having me. My pleasure, probably. All right. Goodbye, everybody.

2:26:44legislation National Assembly