#2381 - Taylor Kitsch

49:43You got to go check on her. So long story short, call the ambulance. and the medic to his credit is like go grab the fucking bottle and uh grabs a bottle and shows this medic and he's like we're pumping her stomach right now in the ambulance and um what saved her life were their time release isn't that fucking crazy wow yeah wild so i got this call and i lost my mind for giving her uh the bottle um but yeah she at that point she kind of just fucking ran again went to a drug house she hates using uh needles so someone would shoot her up yeah so as you know if you're fucking sober 92 days whatever it was if you use what you were using before you're fucking gone because your tolerance yeah yeah exactly yeah so they drop It's a fucking movie.

50:41They dropped her off at the stoop of this hospital, and she got Narcan. I didn't know any of this part. I wasn't privy to this yet. I'm just driving around looking for her. And anyway, she's, just to go back to that environment, I'm like, I'm out of money. I got to send you back home to Vancouver. And she's like, you put me to Vancouver, I'm going to die. And I'm like, well, it ain't working well here either. and uh she was at a psych ward on 34th and lamar uh that was a fucked up story but um for like 10 days um but anyway she got she went to this place called the westy house in new westminster just outside vancouver and so it was a woman's only and she was there she ran there and i got her back in and she got clean and hasn't looked back since ran again i know man vancouver phone calls must be rough.

51:37I was, I didn't even know what Al-Anon was. And, uh, I was at 360 bridge. There's a church just across 360 bridge. And, uh, I was at this Al-Anon and, uh, and I'm waiting. I didn't, shells has been gone. So I'm waiting for the call of like, okay, she's finally overdosed and gone. and so I'm a mess and I'm in Al-Anon just waiting for this call and I'm judging everybody in this fucking Al-Anon like there's this woman across from me she's like yeah my husband he used and um yeah I got Christmas with him and I'm like fuck that's easy day I'm like you don't even know what the fuck I'm dealing with over here you know and then you hear another story and you're like that's bullshit you guys are pussies all in my head.

52:30And, uh, so I just listened, it does help or help me a lot. And I come out in this one guy, he's like, Hey, you're heavy. You gotta, you want to talk or anything? You didn't say a word in there. And, and I'm like, right when he said that my sis called and she was downtown Vancouver and she had just used and got scared straight. Um, some guy had followed her and sexually abused a friend of hers in front of her and she's like i can't do this no more so she was scared straight and she's like that's what got her sober she got she was downtown vancouver called me and she's like can you get me back in westy house and i call susan was her name and um call her back and i'm throwing everything i'm like i will fucking uh support you guys can you give us a bed can you get her one more time i know she's not allowed back and all this and She goes, I'll call you back.

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54:50There's also plans covering up to$3 million for stolen funds and expenses. Don't take chances with your personal info. Help protect it even when it's out of your hands. Save up to 40 % your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use the promo code JRE or go to lifelock.com slash JRE for 40 % off. LifeLock for the threats you can't control. Terms apply. Got her bed and she was there nine months. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So what was it that finally kept her sober? That's a fucking good question. Jamie, can you tell Jeff to bring in the coffee? Um, that's a good question. I know at times it was like she is we have nieces and nephews and she wanted to get clean for them but that didn't last.

55:48i think it was that moment of getting scared straight like you just can't keep doing this um rock bottom yeah i think that's what it is it's so subjective right yeah we all know somebody that's like i stopped drinking yesterday yeah done yeah like my buddy over there you just met it's just like he went for a few weeks and he hasn't had booze since and it's like sometimes it just clicks and they're like fuck this life i don't want it anymore and some just can't break that habit but yeah it varies so much oh my god thanks jimmy um but yeah she's a lot like me too super i'll steal some get some dog thanks man um yeah it's it's a beautiful story tragically yeah yeah it ends well yeah but it very well couldn't have i know imagine if that guy didn't say goodbye what is goodbye why why goodbye what the fuck's going on yeah that one guy probably saved your sister's life and i want to fucking kill that guy by the way because he's he relapsed with her and used with her at that drug house i know man so that like for me is a big part of howlers ridge and then with the vets is we just chatted i love these guys and and the families and uh so hopefully we'll have you talk about ibogaine i know we can't do that in montana yet hopefully but i hope up there on howlers ridge we can maybe in a year or two we'll see what happens that we can do some of that up there well i think it's going to be so effective in texas that it's going to spread and i think the The fact that they're starting with veterans.

57:34Yeah. Because these guys don't get any support. I know. You think about what they have to go through when they go off to war, the things that they experience, and then they come back, and they've lost friends, and they've seen their buddies get blown up in front of them, and they're all fucked up, and then they're hooked on pills. And the pills are just, you can cookie monster a fucking jar if you want, and they'll refill you like and there's different outlets like virginia hawaii florida doctors in each one that are sending you yep and it's that's you literally at your doorstep you're getting these jars of pills it's like you're giving and these guys obviously have addictive personalities that's what makes them so fucking great yeah that's one thing like that's a weird thing right The addictive tendency can actually make you great at something.

58:27Yeah. Well, beautiful, right? Yeah. If you use it. If you harness it. But it can go sideways on you, which is really weird. It is. That's one thing. And it's funny because not that I'm cocky or was cocky with Dark Wolf, but I had played this guy already before. And I lose my trident in it. And Mendoza's kind of getting the parade rest ready and the whole ceremony ready for it. And he's just a brother of mine. And it was a big moment that I learned because these workups, say you work up on a Thursday and you go at 2 a.m. to 7 a.m. And you go take a couple guys out and you come back, whatever, celebrate, probably have a few drinks, and then you have another workup on Tuesday.

59:17but let's say you and I go in the fight and I die on that Thursday op, you're back in workup Tuesday morning. So this is one thing that really kind of punched me when I was talking to Mendoza, cause he was talking about some stories where he lost somebody. And I was like, there's literally no fucking time to mourn. There's no time to register the loss of this. So you're just harnessing this pain and this, all these emotions. Yeah. And you're just like, okay, I guess I'm back in the fight. And I'm going to do this for at least another few months before I'm out on my six-month tour. And that really kind of knocked me out.

59:57And that set me free to play this guy a lot more like just knee-jerk emotion and way more of a live wire. Because it's like, we talk about how subjective mourning is. You know, it's like everyone mourns differently. Yeah. So it's like I just made that choice with Ben of just like this guy's just a fucking mess and let him just emotionally make these decisions then. And that's where I took him. Did you have conversations with other vets that were addicts and that were fucked up from war and just had all sorts of different kinds of ways of dealing with trauma? All the time. All the time. It's so common.

1:00:41It really is. It's insanely common. Yeah. It only makes sense. It would be crazy if it wasn't common. I know. Yeah, you're right. Just think of what you're asking them to do. I know. And we don't know the half of it. No. We really don't. We don't know any of it. Yeah, true. If you don't physically experience it, you're just making things up. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I mean, I think obviously with Red Wings and stuff like that, with Lone, but then you talk to these guys in between takes and they're pretty transparent, which is beautiful that they're talking about it and all this. But it's like, where are they putting this fucking energy after they're out?

1:01:17Like they got to find another purpose that's so fucking heightened when you're serving. There's no bigger purpose. You're fucking killing bad guys. Yeah. Like that's incredible. With your brothers right next to you. Like that's a heavy fucking thing to carry. And then when they come out, now what? Right. I'm going to go walk fucking Walmart and just be a dad. and that's just a whole nother life. That's one of the things I really loved about Hurt Locker. Yeah, fuck me. It was such a good movie. Yeah. And it was so good the way he explained or the way it played out how this guy just could not go back to normal.

1:01:57Like it just wasn't working. He didn't give a fuck. He'd rather be back out there. Yeah. Down range. I mean, you look at Marcus too. After Red Wings, he went back to Ramadi. Yeah. Which is wanted to die with his boots on. I mean, these guys are fucking, this is kind of the UFC, right? Of like, these guys are modern day fucking gladiators, warriors. And I know they're not in the front lines or down range, but it's like you got a guy like Marcus or Mendoza or these guys that are just truly born warriors. Yeah. There's just a, they are a different breed. Well, that's why they get it through buds too.

1:02:33Yeah. You got to be a different kind of human. Yeah. Yeah. More mental than physical. Yeah. I mean, Mendoza was running Buds, too, and he would say a lot of times you look at these fucking scrawny guys. Those are the ones that make it. And then you got the D1 athletes that haven't had or gone through a whole lot because they're gifted athletically. Up here, though, they're not as strong. And that fucking scrawny guy over there is bringing that D1 athlete with them. Yeah. Yeah, those stories. That's kind of the case with fighters, too, sometimes. Sometimes it's the guys that aren't talented that wind up being champions because they're tougher and they work harder.

1:03:09Yeah. Because they don't have it given to them easily. You know, they can't half-ass in the gym. They have to be all in. Yeah. Yeah. It's the life. Yeah. It's the sacrifice. What are you willing to do? And you, you know, you have to be all in in that job. Both jobs. Yeah. And comfort can kill you. Oh, yeah. In everybody's life. Yeah. Yeah. I hate it. I know. I know. I hate it. I know, man. I would have thought that one day that I'd be wealthy and that I'd be just fucking chilling and going to the beach. Like, no, you're going even harder. I'm going to fucking cold plunge every morning. Yeah, no, I fucking hate it.

1:03:46I think it's the enemy. It really is. It's the enemy of happiness. Yeah. It really is. Even, like, me with acting, it's, like, I live for it. I love it. And I honestly do believe I've just worked my way through stubbornly. Like, I'll just outwork people. it's not like i was gifted this talent or it truly isn't i'll just outwork people and then now it's like 44 now which is crazy and um now i'm starting to be like okay you're thinking about kids you're thinking about i need a little more balance but then i start this balance and it scares the fuck out of me and i don't like it how does this scare you just it's the comfort right it's like oh kitch don't take this just go keep fly fishing keep you know just go on a motorcycle trip go which is great and i'll still do it but i'm just so conscious of it of like don't get fucking comfortable don't think don't rest on your work you know comfort's not bad if you earn it right but you gotta earn the fuck out of it where like when you're sitting on that couch you know that you actually need to recover like yeah if you're gonna keep going you need to recover so like watching south park is probably good for you yeah yeah actually like medicine yeah you know just fucking let me just zone out and true true yeah but there is that i think i don't know do you have that with the the fear of failure still of just like of it all falling apart that and like i'm on set in two weeks and I'm fucking scared yeah and it's a heavy roll shit ton of dialogue that's because you're doing the right thing I know it's what you're supposed to be doing but I can't sit on that fucking couch because I'm like what the fuck are you doing now you can't sit on the couch yes it's getting ready yeah go time yeah but that's why you you're doing what you do I mean you yeah you have to be a little scared of what you do you have to be yeah like Monday I'm going elk hunting yeah kind of freaking out which i always do because it's hard yeah it is it's i got in shape i got like did a lot of cardio a lot of leg workouts because you're going you're huffing it up those mountains i shot three hours of arrows today fuck three fucking arrows i'm pulling three hours i'm pulling back an 80 pound bow no joke yeah it's it's a lot of work man i work hard but it's because when it's there you want to be prepared yeah leading up to it i get like fucking super serious i get like really like where it's it's with me all day long it's with me i'm brushing my teeth i know it with me when i'm putting on my underwear with me when i'm sitting in the cold plunge i'm thinking about the mountains because it's a hard thing to do and that's why i do it because i love it and but it's also because it's a hard thing to do and when you're getting ready to do like a role that's like a fucking intense role the nerves are a good thing they're your friend yeah that truly keeps you honest feeling yeah you can't eat like that's your friend.

1:06:44Or you're looking through my girlfriend. Yeah, you're barely listening. Just running lines. Yep, yep, yep. Fucking, what if I do this in this scene? Uh-huh. But they want to talk about Taylor Swift's engagement ring. Like, I can't. I can't hear. And then you're an asshole. Right, like, what did you say? You're not listening. I was listening. I just spaced out for a second. I'm sorry. Yeah. And then you go back to being spaced out after apologizing. Or I'll just literally be like, I'm going on a bike ride and i'm gone for two three hours and then i'm running shit in my head or it's so true but it's the same i equate it to like when we're rolling it's like you ain't hiding no more kids you're fucking you're in it it's the same thing once you get exposed to that elk it's like this is your fucking moment yeah we're gonna see if you did the work yeah yeah 100 % yeah i think people everyone needs something like that but it scares people so they shy away from it And they look towards something that's guaranteed.

1:07:44You get a guaranteed paycheck. It's easy. It's simple. But that's your enemy. Yeah. That's how your life becomes this just dull shade of gray. Yeah. I know. Yeah. Not good. You're very fortunate. You're very fortunate you've been able to do what you love and that what you love is, you know, it's very exciting. Yeah. And it's very exciting to other people. It's very rewarding. Yeah. Dude, I fucking loved you in American Primeval. Oh, thanks. That role. That was my gladiator. That was intense. That one scene where you're getting changed and you see all the fucking cuts all over your body. Oh, yeah.

1:08:23You're like, whoa. Yeah. Like, it just. That scene, I lost a bunch of weight for it. And then Howard Berger did my makeup for that. And he's fucking incredible. And that scene, man. That scene meant a lot because. It's everything. you saw who that guy is raw naked with his shoshone brother and starving yeah covered in scars and then goes into that uh tp with the chief the the mother of his wife that he lost and i wrote that scene man whoa yeah and so pete pete and i came up with its only pain and then i i broke my foot and got a fucking bone cut out of it on this that show and you know the scene where bone cut out yeah why they cut a bone out so there's a scene where i go down to get horses and i kill five or six guys at the skinning camp and i think it's episode two and betty gilpin who's amazing comes down and she's like didn't trust me and she comes down i have to kill these guys during that sequence uh i broke this my foot and they call cut and i go to uh dash now the stunt coordinator and um i'm like oh it's broken and he's like i've worked with him for 15 years and he's like don't fuck with me and i'm like no dash it's broken i got the shooting pain in my groin and he's like get the fuck out of here and i'm like yeah so finish the scene and they they spray fucking bio freeze on my foot and i'm like guys it's broken like i'm fucked and so i go to bozeman and he's like it's this small bone right on the side of your foot right there that goes up and down right here next to your toe connecting my big toe it's on the side bone on my big toe uh-huh and uh so he's like oh you can wear a boot it's a small bone so you won't need to it'll heal itself so i go back and i'm in a boot doing this fucking show and i got a six foot six uh wrangler so when i get off that horse 90 of the time i think his name's bj great dude big cowboy um and he's below me off camera taking my weight because i can't step off the horse because i'm in a fucking boot medical boot yeah and then uh six weeks goes by or a month and i go back to bozeman and take my boot off and uh he does one last x-ray and he's like you need to be in surgery today oh no that's what i said that's a shitty call to netflix and pete and um so i got surgery and then right before surgery um he's like we can pin it but you're going to be super active and it may not take or i can cut it out and put bone wax on it bone wax yeah i didn't know there There was a thing that either.

1:11:26What is bone wax? I don't know either. So you just said cut it? Yeah. Because you wanted to go back to work? Yeah. So they cut a chunk of bone off. Yeah. And what is bone wax? I think it just is a protective coating over it. Ooh, look at this. Commonly supplied in sterile sticks usually require softening before it can be applied. It's generally made of beeswax. Softening agent uses paraffin or petroleum jelly, and it's smeared across the bleeding edge of the bone, blocking the holes and causing immediate bone hemostasis. Still don't know what it means. I don't know what this means. Is this a tamponade effect?

1:12:06Closure of blockage as if by a tampon, especially to stop bleeding. You got a tampon on your foot, bro. Yeah, I do. Wow, that's crazy. Oh, God. So does your foot fuck with you now? Yeah. it's uh if i'm fly fishing or on uneven ground it's or if i'm doing you know if i'm tracking or doing something uh side hilling which i fucking hate right side hill hiking i hate it i have a terrible knee as well that's where it bites yeah yeah and then um yeah so i dealt with that we had to i had to be on the couch for six weeks but my first day back was those two scenes and I had called Pete and I'm like hey I wrote this scene I'd love because that scene was exposition with my mom at first we were talking about Red Feather and stuff and uh I'm like this is my first day back after losing them that I haven't seen her since I've lost her daughter and her grandson so this guy can't get through anything uh so that was the crutch and thank you for noticing that's the crutch of that whole arc to that guy yeah it It was an intense scene because it was so realistic.

1:13:15Yeah. Like, well, that's what a guy would look like. Yeah. I hate when you see someone who looks like they've been living an easy life. Yeah. And they take their shirt off and they're supposed to be like in some rugged outdoor environment. They just look soft. Yeah. Or he's stacked and looks incredible. Nice tan. Looks like he's been in the gym. Yeah. Eating creatine. No, you look like a hard man. Like a hard man who's been through some fucking hand-to-hand combat. It looked very realistic. Yeah. Thank you. You had to starve yourself for that? Yeah. How much did you have to lose just to get hungry looking?

1:13:45I had time. I had time, which was great. I lost 30 for that. Whoa. Yeah. That's a lot of weight. Yeah. But I had done it. I did this one film called The Bang Bang Club here. I was just living off Lamar here. And I play this drug addicted true story about these war photographers right before the, during the apartheid, right before the first free election, Mandela's election. Kevin Carter is his name. He won a Pulitzer for this epic shot that he took. Got a lot of flack for and ended up taking his own life. But that, I had 30 days to prep and I lost 35 in 30 days. Whoa. And I remember going just over I-35 here to this dock and my heart rate was fucking low 20s.

1:14:34Oh, God. Because all I was doing was running coffee and I would, uh, the broth can be super salty, sodium heavy. So I'd filter that and then just have broth and broccoli for dinner. Oh my God. You're just starving yourself. Yeah, it was bad. And then I got a thyroid problem from that. And, uh, that doc, that doc was like, um, Hey, you're going to fail this, uh, physical just so you know. And I'm like, what do I got to do? i'm going to africa next week and he's like do some push-ups so i did push-ups and got my heart rate into the low 40s and he's like okay wow i know that's crazy yeah that's i was hurting you were probably kind of dying yeah that's nuts dude and then i was hurting they would shoot me out on bang bang club like just shoot your coverage and go go back to bed and uh then i ended up getting a nutritionist there and uh she helped me a little bit but that was a quick shoot but um that's where i think i fucked my body on that one wow and then koresh again lost weight for that that was great by the way thanks that fucking whole koresh story is so crazy i know man what is it like doing that movie because it's another real life yeah that was i was just prepping right there too um that was almost too long a prep here's me saying i love prep but i had six months to get into that headspace and it just the last month i tried to pull out of the show really yeah because i was just this is i was just you're holding hoarding all this energy and you i lost the weight learning to play guitar and sing which was a fucking comedy um i'm fucking terrible he He was terrible, too, though.

1:16:23Yeah, he was. That literally helped me. I'd listen to Dave, and I'd be like, wow. That guy sucks. Yeah, he shit. He genuinely helped me. I have no idea how he got people to follow him with that fucking terrible singing. If I was in that call, I'd go, yo, we got to reevaluate. This guy is not Christ. He is not the leader. He's actually kind of fucking terrible, right? Should we leave? He sucks. His fucking music sucks. Yeah. but just what is it like getting in the headspace of someone who's that depraved too and and who has that kind of like sick control over people why figure out the why why yeah i think so yeah um go to his childhood which was fucking terrible of course um like you don't You become a cult leader and everything's awesome when you're a kid.

1:17:18Two great, healthy parents. Always giving you hugs. Siblings. And you decide to be a cult leader. Yeah. Yeah. He memorized the Bible by 15. Whoa. Which is fucking. That's intense. That says enough right there. That's intense. But he was like tied to a radiator on his birthday. Oh, Jesus. Like abused pretty hard. I almost bought his car. Oh, my God. I tried to pull the trigger on his car. He had a 1968 Camaro and a buddy of mine texted me and said, yo, David Koresh's car for sale. And he knows I'm a car head. Are you? And I'm like, oh, I love cars, especially old muscle cars. Yeah. I got a bunch of them.

1:17:55And I have a 69 Camaro. And I was thinking about, at that time I didn't have any Camaros, but I was thinking about getting like a 68 or a 69 or a 67. I like the 69s a little more, a little wide body. But then I found out it was Koresh's car. I was like, whoa, that would be wild to drive to the comedy store. and David Koresh's Mustang. In Texas. Or David Koresh's Camaro, rather. But then I thought about it and I said, you know what? I don't want it. I don't want anything from that guy. I don't want that energy. I don't want to hold his steering wheel. I don't want to sit in his seat. I don't want it.

1:18:28I don't want it. Also, what a piece of shit. That guy's a preacher. He's driving around in a muscle car. Like, for sure, right there and then. Terrible singing and muscle car. Ego. A little bit of an ego. A lot of ego. So, I mean, not that you can't enjoy, I love them. I think they're one of the greatest accomplishments of American engineering in terms of like a piece of functional artwork. Yeah. American cars. I love them. I'm that way with motorcycles, too. And I got to set, we shot actually in, Waco wanted nothing to do with us. Of course. Yeah. Rightfully so. So we shot that in Santa Fe. I'd like to change that.

1:19:04Yeah, man. Waco's a great town, by the way. Yeah. It's grown enormously, too. But his motorcycle came for sale, and obviously they knew we were making it. I kicked tires on it, and they wanted just—it was probably worth$2 ,000. They wanted$15 ,000 or something, and it was just like, go fuck yourself. Right. And honestly, like you just said, what am I going to do with his moto? Yeah, I thought it was silly at first, and then after a while, I'll be like, I can't do this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Before we opened up the comedy mothership in town, I was under contract for this place called the One World Theater that was also owned by a cult.

1:19:46Yeah. No way. Yeah. The One World Theater. You know where it is? No. It's on B-Cave. Well, this is what's fucked up about the story. Ron White performed there once because they have concerts there. And Ron White did stand up and we were talking about opening up a club and he said, you should buy that place down on B-Cave. It's the fucking shit. It's a beautiful theater. I think it's for sale. I played there once. It's amazing. I was like, all right, Ron White's the fucking man. If he tells me, I'll go check it out. And I check it out and I'm like, yeah, we could do this. Let's do it. And so sign the contracts, all that.

1:20:15And then I get a call from my friend Adam. He goes, hey, did you ever watch the documentary on that cult? I'm like, oh no, there's a documentary? The documentary is called Holy Hell. And it's about a guy who was a gay porn star and a hypnotist. There was a yoga instructor. Oh my God. Checking every box. Yep. So it was yoga instructor in Hollywood. and then the cult in Waco gets taken down. And then he is on the run now because now the Cult Awareness Network starts going after all these cults after Waco. They're like, hey, people's children are getting kidnapped essentially by these fucking maniacs and winds up being like, Waco, we got to stop these cults.

1:20:53And so he moves to Austin and changes his name and has a, this is the 90s, you could get away with changing your name. Nobody, no internet. And so this guy has his followers build him this theater so he can dance in front of them. The documentary is bananas. And I see the documentary. I'm like, oh, my God, I got to get out of this. After I see the documentary, I'm like, I got to get out of this deal. I got to get. And fortunately, there was a problem. Fortunately, there was a problem because, you know, you got a bunch of cult members building a place. They're not going to do it to code. No. And so it was like his residents.

1:21:29Yeah. There was a lot of shit that was wrong. A lot of wacky shit. They didn't want to pay for it. I'm like, good. Let's just. So it cost me a little bit of money and I got out of it. And then we eventually got the Ritz on 6th Street. And that's the perfect spot anyway. But it was the thing of being in that building and knowing what happened. I'm like, I can't handle this. Different energy there. 100, 200 people wasted their life with this asshole for 20 fucking years. And there was a bunch of them crying at the end of the documentary. Like, I lost my life. My life is meaningless now. I thought I was gonna be with them forever now.

1:22:06I'm a dog walker. I'm like, oh my god I know I can't carry that in this club. I can't feel it. Yeah, no, I'd have to tear the building down I just thought it'd be silly. Yeah, oh building built by a cult. Yeah, perfect. We'll take it But the reality is every cult winds up being the same thing The guy wants all the money and he wants to fuck everybody. It's almost every one of them has the same profile and fear-based Always. Always. Always fear-based. Always everybody else is the enemy. I'm the solution. The nutty thing about this guy, though, is that he would do this thing to these people called the knowing.

1:22:42And you had to earn it. And when you earned it, it was this very special ceremonious moment. And he would put his hands on their head. And he would do something to them. And these people would feel God. They would experience God. And I know that it has to be some sort of a placebo effect or psychosomatic, something where your brain triggers this energy. But all these people that called him a fraud, that fucking hated him, I wasted my life, they all talked about that moment like it was the greatest moment of their life still. They're like, I gained a connection to God and to the universe that to this day was the most profound and loving moment of my life.

1:23:23it's like yeah the guy was a total piece of shit scam artist con man liar everything was wrong yet he was still capable of doing that thing to them so condition them over years well he had them thinking about the moment that it was going to come one day and then he would take it away from them and then and then one person would get it and they would all sit around and watch and they're like when am i gonna get it but when they got it they would all be like Because we know that the brain produces psychedelic chemicals. And I guess you can trick it, which is, I think, what a near-death experience is.

1:24:01I think a near-death experience, your body's like, it's over. Flood the gates. Yeah. And then it rolls through. And then you go down the tunnel and light and all the jazz and you meet dead people. Yeah. I think this is possible with everybody. You just have to achieve the right state of mind. I know people in kundalini yoga, the people that are like heavy into it can fucking completely trip balls. Really? I had a buddy of mine who had done DMT. Oh, yeah. And then he really done DMT a couple of times. So he knew what the experience was. And then he really got into kundalini yoga and he was doing it for like six months.

1:24:36And then what is kundalini? It's a very specific kind of yoga that involves like deep breath work. And there's a lot of like head bobbing. It's very strange. But it's you achieve a DMT like state. He's like, you achieve a full-on psychedelic experience doing Kundalini. And I'm like, whoa. And I've always thought about trying and practicing it. I'm like, eh. Yeah, same. I don't have the time. I don't have the time. It's one of those things. I'm just too busy. I can't think about some new thing to be obsessed with. But my point is that there is some little trigger in your brain that if you can trick your brain into snapping over to on, it just— I believe that part.

1:25:18this fucking cult guy did it to those people yeah as much as they hated him as much as they knew he was a fry he fucked everybody yeah the crazy thing is like they didn't know that everybody was getting fucked and so like one guy leaves the cult and he sends out this group email like hey this guy's been hypnotizing me and fucking me for like 10 years and they're all like i thought it was only me yeah and then it became crazy where everybody had a story oh everybody had a story he would I would charge them money for these experiences. And then he'd fucking. Of course. Jesus. Hilarious. But terrible.

1:25:52Yeah. And so I didn't want that building. So I didn't want Koresh's car. Let me look at that contract again. No. So when you were getting close and you wanted to pull out, was it just the heaviness of carrying around this guy's weight? Yeah. Yeah. And then I called my manager, Steph, and she's like, give it a day. and then the dowdle brothers who wrote and directed terrific guys and um i called john and i think one thing that set me free probably on month three because i was really stuck on everything we've just said of like why am i playing some guy that's pretty fucking reprehensible in a lot of ways and a real person yeah we did real damage to people but i was judging him and that was like really a big block for me because i couldn't understand him more and so once i started to not cast judgment or my own judgment on him and just trying to understand and root him then i was like okay i'm gonna fly now of like this is his childhood this is why he's doing this and so it's your guys's job can judge away and do all this but for me to play this guy I can't bring that to him.

1:27:09Right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. So that helped a lot. You've got to be that piece of shit. Yeah. Yeah. I've got to do it and try and root that. When you got done with the role, was it like a thing that you had to cast off yourself? Like... Bang Bang Club fucked me. I was hurting pretty bad after. I didn't know my process very well. And, you know, Kevin Carter was just really, really troubled. and I think it was Mandrax, which is an animal tranquilizer that he would take. Oh boy. Yeah. And he would have night terrors and all this. There's photos of him. They called it the bang bang because they had these police scanners and once they would, this is early 90s in South Africa, and once they heard it on the scanner, it's like a bang bang.

1:27:56And they would be there a lot of times before the cops, like some kind of civil rights or civil fight would happen and they would get hear it on the scanner and they'd go like scooby-doo kind of shit they'd get there before the cops a lot of time or the military and they'd be in the middle of this shooting it uh photographing it and you see pics of kev that are just like him in like one shoe high hiding behind like a fucking barrel in the middle of this gunfight like they would get really into it and then he was a guy that just kind of took everything to heart you know of just he would see some fucking pretty abysmal shit and just be like take it you know wear it and uh it just hammered him and so he would take these drugs and just to sleep and just to get over get through it um but yeah that was really tough coming out of him just because i didn't know myself enough or process be able to really kind of separate became a part of him yep and then the weight and all that and then with dave um yeah i was so ready to gain the weight back and just wipe my hands with it i always go on a motorcycle trip after and that sets me free helps me a lot i'll write letters and just burn them that helps a lot they say when you're like if i get therapy or something or it's like write a letter and literally watch it burn.

1:29:28And that is something like that's a mind trick, I'm sure. Just like if there's trauma or something. Figure out a way to let it go that way. Yeah. Like a ceremonial purging. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So that was, bang, bang was harder than Koresh? Yeah. On me. Because you would like not, you hadn't been used to carrying around someone else's thoughts. Exactly. And that was the first time I started having really bad nightmares in South Africa. And that started fucking with me a lot. And then I was really happy. It was only a four-week shoot. Did you try that tranquilizer, whatever the fuck it is, so you can know what it's like?

1:30:08No. I've only smoked weed three times in my life. Nothing else? Nothing else. Little booze? Little booze, yeah. Yeah? First time was - But just weed? Yeah. Wow. savages uh with oliver stone oh no so yeah it goes hard he does i was surprised he still smokes weed oh my god yeah and uh i was in rehearsal and he asked me and i hadn't smoked weed ever before oh my god yeah and i'm playing this guy this obviously a seal but that smokes weed grows weed sells weed gets into the cartel and you smoked with oliver stone the first time no my The first time he gave me some of his medicinal, and I went with a buddy who smokes weed all the time and staying at the Shangri-La in Santa Monica while we were filming.

1:30:57And my buddy brought over a bong, a water bong. Oh, no. Yeah. Oh, no. That's not how you do it. If you're going to do it the first time, this is what I tell you to do. Just go like this. That's it. That's it. Just a little hit. You got to dip your toes in there. The drug is also known as quaaludes. Oh, interesting. That's what quaaludes are. Wow. Quaaludes is a brand name for it. What does it say it's doing to your brain? It's a muscle relaxer. There you go. How do you say that word? Methylqualone? Methylqualone, yeah. Methylqualone? Combination of a drug known as Mandrax, primarily in Europe, containing 250 milligrams of methoqualone and 20 milligrams of diphenhydramine.

1:31:51Diphenhydramine? In a single tablet. Whoa. Commercial production was discontinued in many countries during the mid-1980s due to widespread misuse, addiction, and associated public health concerns. Yeah, you know when a popular drug gets pulled. It's pretty bad. Yeah, that was no joke. So just because that was the first time you'd ever tried carrying around someone's thoughts, that was worse because he was so fucked up. Yeah. And I was that actor where it was like, I got to be in trauma too then. Right, right, right, right. Definitely. Real. Yeah. But it comes out. That's the fucked up thing. It comes out in the role.

1:32:28Like it seems real. Like as nutty as Daniel Day-Lewis's process is, when that motherfucker is that guy and there will be blood, you believe it. I drink your milkshake. he's fucking there man he's dialed in he's the best but it's just that process it's got to be fucking soul crushing yeah because you lose you you lose you and now you're some fucked up person yeah like david koresh yeah you're having nightmares living in a fucking mini hotel room in south africa like lonely as fuck yeah it's no joke that was no joke But I've learned my process a lot more. Did you have to refine it on your own? Did you get help doing this?

1:33:14Yeah, it was Waco that really kind of set me straight in my process, really helped me figure out, like, my me. Because it's all self-exploratory shit as well, is acting. And then you're just way more conscious of it. Of, like, okay. Like, even with relationships. Of, like, okay, that's. I can get quite short. like be like true detective i was oddly an asshole through the whole thing and i had my best friend of 30 years with me helping me on that and i was drinking like a to blackout and that's not me i don't drink much but i was just a fucking mess and my buddy was is like played in the nhl ahl was a fighter like he would fucking murder me you'd get shitty with him really shitty with him and i would poke him that's booze bro i know booze is the worst i know man it's the worst for that so many people get themselves into situations that they really should not be in and i would poke him man and we'd go to this shithole bar it's called sports harbor i don't even know if it's open anymore but i would fuck around and uh i didn't have to find out but i definitely was getting that really i was conscious of it and he would have to have a moment with me of like hey you said this last night or do you think it was partly because you're trying to play detective and detectives are kind of all fucked up in the closet just a mess um so do you think that's what it was like yeah i do yeah because after i shed it or after it wrapped i was with my sis right after but i was fine i didn't touch anything but during i was no bueno wow even getting ready for this it's i play this um director of corrections in texas it's a true story about uh the longest hostage situation in in the u.s in a prison it's 11 day hostage negotiation and freddy carrasco is going to be played by luna diego luna who's i can't wait to see what he fucking does with this but um i play the director of corrections so we're negotiating for 11 days and i and he's got to be quite hard on his war in on the guys in his war room and he kind of comes in and he takes over the negotiation um and he's never done a negotiation before so he makes a mistake here or there and he he fucking pays the piper psychologically for it because it doesn't end great and um and so i'm starting to get into that mindset and when i'm with a buddy or something like that i can be quite short and you start to see it filtering in i'm like okay jim is settling in me like i can start to feel it a little bit more i get a little more reactionary yeah yeah that's so creepy it's like you're getting haunted you're kind of getting haunted by your characters but that's dude that's why you're so good i think that's there's something to that man because you're fucking believable you know like i've seen you in a bunch of movies but it doesn't matter whatever the fuck you're doing i believe even though i know oh that's taylor kitch yeah i've seen him in lone survivor i've seen him in this i've seen him in that when you're in that the same as the the daniel day lewis thing that's he's that guy yeah he's that fucking guy and even though you know who he is that's how good he is that he's still that guy even though you know who the fuck that is i know it's like the trick works that fucking monologue daniel day has on the porch where he's like i don't to his brother i think it is where he goes i don't like people yeah oh all fucking time yeah he is the best to do it such a complicated character he played too i know it was so much to it he's he's got something coming out soon too his son i think directed it which is going to be a fucking banger i think he plays a soldier that comes back or oh i saw a trailer yeah that's right i saw a trailer recently yeah that fucking thing of carrying a guy around like that whether it's the detective or koresh or the bang bang guy it's like that's gotta be fucking exhausting yeah because you're like real light in real life you're friendly and like hey what's up how you doing i was because i didn't know i didn't know what you're gonna be like everybody's different you know i heard horror stories of you really no no i try to be nice but you know i was just with uh sheridan the other day oh taylor i love that guy yeah man i fucking love him and of course pete and every car everyone's like you're gonna have a fucking blast so yeah no for sure everybody told me that about you too oh great yeah but you know you don't know i know until you meet someone but that i'm glad i didn't meet you while you're on full detest on true detective in full character you know because full character's fucking crazy you're kind of haunted yeah you gotta live it you gotta live it I think, I mean, you look at anybody that's great at anything, you have to, it's the amount of sacrifice you're willing to give to it.

1:38:29Yeah, you have to be all in all the time. And I think it's that, like, the fear of failure and also I don't want to fucking watch it and be like, oh, catch, you didn't. Right, right, right. That would kill me. Right, right, right. That would fucking kill me. Yeah, the watching a guy phone it in is the worst feeling as a consumer of the show. like a you know passenger on the ride watching someone phoning in like no dude do another take yeah that's the one they keep motherfucker what are you doing you going through a divorce yeah what's going on they're out there man you can't can't lock in yeah i've worked with some pretty fucking huge names that have apologized yeah after a film or at the premiere or something that were like, hey, I'm sorry, man.

1:39:17I just wasn't there. That's crazy. You know, like in my head, I'm like, no, I know. Yeah. I had Charlie Sheen on yesterday. Oh, no way. Yeah, and he was talking about his time doing anger management, about he was still really fucked up and just doing way too many drugs, and he was trying to be locked in, but he was, and he just didn't do it. And then he didn't want to do it anymore, so he was miserable while he was there, and he's all fucked up, and he's, like, apologizing to everybody now. I was like, I am so good. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He's a sweetheart of a guy, like a really nice guy.

1:39:46He's sober a lot. Eight years, almost eight years. Amazing. Yes. Yeah. Damn. But you can see the itch behind his eyes. Right. That's a struggle. That sober is a struggle, sober, because that guy went through it for so many years. Yeah. The stories that he was telling about literally how 1 a.m. to 7 a.m. would go by like that, and then all of a sudden someone was pounding on his door, it's time to go to work. He's like, I am high as fuck on crack. And he goes and so I have to lie in bed. So he'd lie in bed. I try to close my eyes He goes I'm not taking a nap because I'm cracked out of my mind my whole body's Vibrating and he goes and then I took an ice cube and I stuck it up my ass get out And the ice cube woke him up and got him back Like he was literally falling asleep on the set and he said give me a couple minutes and he shoved an ice cube up his ass

1:40:41that movie writes itself bro that guy went so hard how do you figure that out you know you're just going to the fridge i gotta wake up he's literally falling asleep how do i wake up shove an ice cube up my ass like i guess it works what were the other choices stick a fork into an electric socket How did you get to an ice cube up your asshole? Oh, my God. But he was going that hard. And, you know, he just. He's so lucky he didn't die. So. Where the uppers and downers and everything. The crack. Well, people that he, the girl he smoked crack with the first time he ever smoked crack with eventually overdosed.

1:41:19Ah. He told a story about the first time he smoked crack. Brutal. This girl who was a crackhead, she gave him a blowjob while he took his first hit of crack. He said, to this day, I can't top that experience. He goes, to this day. He goes, I probably shouldn't say that. He goes, to this day is the greatest moment of my life. Wow. Holy shit. Like, oh, my God. Isn't there a doc on him that just came out? Yeah, that's what it's about. Yeah, he wrote a book and he did a doc. Oh, he did? Yeah. And now he's doing movies again. Is he? Yes. He's excited to be working again. Wow. I'm a little bummed out that it took so long for him to get a job again.

1:41:55Well. Yeah. I mean, you know. Yeah. You got a lot of investment. It's a tough hire. Yeah. A lot of money invested. It's a lot of insurance on the studio. Yeah. But now he's sober for eight years. Wow. Good for him. Holy shit. What is he, like 60 now? He's in his 60s. Yeah. He actually looks good. Does he? So for a long time, he looked terrible. And I said to him, I go, dude, you look better than I've seen you. I mean, I hadn't seen him ever in real life. It was the first time I ever met him. But he looked good. He looked healthy. Like, remarkable for a guy that's gone through. Damn, that's just fucking abused.

1:42:2620 years of redlining the machine. Just BAM!

1:42:3420 years of crack. I'm going to watch that doc. Oh, the doc is great. It's really entertaining, too. It's really well shot. It's really well shot. Yeah, really well edited. I mean, that whole family is pretty epic. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, Martin, come on. Yeah. Damn. No, we talked about Apocalypse Now, too, which is really crazy because he was on the set when he was eight years old. Eight or ten? Ten? Ten. Ten years old. So he was ten years old in the Philippines on the set of Apocalypse Now while it was being filmed. Yeah, helicopters, fucking Robert Duvall, everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

1:43:11Dude, he was there. Ten. Oh, my God. And your dad's Martin Sheen. And the Philippines back then, too. Dude, I love that movie so much. I wear this watch. This is the Willard. This is a this is a reproduction of the watch that Martin Sheen wore. No way. Apocalypse Now. Yeah. It's my favorite watch. Yeah. Because of that. Yeah. Because well, it's a nice watch. It's a Seiko. Yeah. Like they all the Vietnam soldiers all got Seikos because they were like super durable and reliable. Wow. Look at that. That's him with his dad. Oh, my God. I didn't fucking get it in there, but. Oh, my God. On the set of Apocalypse Now in 1979.

1:43:49That is crazy. oh how old was martin sheen then looks pretty young yeah i mean what a legend though he seemed like in the movie he was in his early 30s right damn yeah crazy crazy crazy i mean and you wonder why and then 10 years later literally 10 years later he's doing platoon oh which is the next epic war movie. Oliver Stone's directing it. Willem Dafoe. Willem Dafoe. Who's the other guy? The other guy with the scars. Tom. Who is it? Yes. Dude, that guy ruled in that movie. Yep, he did. He seemed so scary. Willem's an amazing guy. Amazing. I love that guy in everything. He was great in John Wick.

1:44:36He's great in everything. He really is. He's great in everything. Willem Dafoe's the fucking man. Yeah. But to be there at 10, watching your dad filming the apocalypse now, and then 10 years later, you're in platoon. And Oliver North is directing you. Stone. And your narration. Excuse me. Oliver North. That's hilarious. Oliver Stone is directing you. And you're doing the narration. The whole thing is nuts. 10 years. How do you adjust to that? No, you don't. Well, crack. That's how you adjust. One word. Yeah. Crack. Well, it took a while for crack. That was his drug of choice. It started with Coke.

1:45:11When that girl blow him, when the girl gave him a blowjob while he was smoking crack, it was crack from then on out. It was like, I get it now. It's a hard sell. Damn. It's just crazy that he's alive. Yeah. But one of the things that we were saying that I was talking to him about, I was like, no one can understand what you went through. Because no one has ever done that. No one has ever been Charlie Sheen at 20 years old and been in platoon. And you're the toast of the town. And you're a baby. You're just getting out of high school. You know, like what? A baby, man. And then the world's your oyster.

1:45:44You're doing blow every night. It's chaos. Just nuts. You're off the rails. And every time you fail, you succeed better. Like every time you go into rehab, there's a better movie waiting for you on the other side. There's no consequences career-wise. God. And it just keeps going hard. What was the baseball movie? God. Major League. Oh, the best. Oh, he was awesome in that movie. The best. Yeah. Yeah. I grew up watching that. Yeah, dude, that guy's been in some great fucking movies. He's been in some great fucking movies. But to be him and to, you know, there's no blueprint for that kind of thing.

1:46:18What was his bottom out? Did he tell you? He kind of, like, there was a bunch of bottoms out. Yeah, losing two and a half men or something. Yeah, it was that and then it was his behavior afterwards. And then he very apologized to Chuck Lorre. He says, we've talked. I've apologized. We're friends now. like thank god like because i feel he live in la charlie i wonder remember get the fuck out i don't think he said yeah i don't think i asked him i don't know if he's still there um but he's been completely sober for eight years for him yeah good for him holy shit like if he can do it yeah no shit that guy could do it and he seems together both of them back beringer was in that too that's right that's crazy that they put that completely different roles beringer and platoon was so scary.

1:47:06Yeah. Scared the fuck out of me. Damn. I love that shit. Yeah. It's just amazing that guy's life arc to go from being a child on the set of Apocalypse Now to 10 years later starring in Platoon. I think Apocalypse was like a two-year shoot. Three. No. We were talking about it yesterday. Cool. Yeah. I thought it was even more than that. I think the entire production They just kept asking for money too. took forever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Francis Ford Coppola, man. Yeah, come on. He nailed it. Come on. To this day, I will watch that movie every now and then and just sit there and go, fuck. Back then, too, to make a movie like that.

1:47:40In 79? Oh, my God. Come on, man. That movie was epic. And it was like one of the first realistic war movies. Then you got Platoon, like you said. Yeah, yeah. Epic. Yeah, yeah. It's crazy that he experienced both of them, one as a child watching his dad and one as a star and all within the span of a decade. Yeah. Which is like 2015 was yesterday, man. I know. That's a decade. And the most formative years. Yeah. Ten. Yeah, ten. What were you doing at ten? I wasn't in the Philippines. Yeah. That was the other thing. He was like, I didn't know that that world existed. He goes, like, I was living in Malibu, you know, in this beautiful town on the beach.

1:48:21You know, everybody's, like, happy and wealthy. And his dad's a movie star. And then all of a sudden, he's in the Philippines. And he's like, in Francis Ford Coppola, I had all these sketchy people on set all the time. Like, he was an artist. He's a nut. Like, everybody, come on and hang out. There's all these weird fucking people around. Three-year fucking shoot. Yeah, in the jungle. Yeah, literally. Using helicopters from the army. And he was saying that one time the army had to take the helicopters back because there was rebels and there was an insurgency. Yeah, they had to borrow the helicopters.

1:48:52There's another movie. They had the whole scene rigged. The river was rigged with explosives. They were ready to film the scene. And they were like, no, we need our helicopters back. Holy fuck, man. We need to go kill some people. That's old school movie making, though. Yeah, man. I mean, if you could go back in time to be on the set of any movie ever, what would it be? Damn. I mean, I've got to, I had dinner with Gibson one night, Mel Gibson, and I've worked with, what's his, Brendan Gleeson. So maybe Braveheart. That was a big one for me. That was a big one. Yeah. Boy, that was a movie that made everybody want a sword fight afterwards.

1:49:36I know. He's trying to go fuck something up. Totally. To get out of that movie. Truly. God damn it. That one was big. What a movie. When he screams freedom at the end of it. I mean, come on. When the king pulls the helmet off the king and he sees he's fighting for the other side and then you cut to Gibson, those fucking blue eyes that are trying, he's trying to register that it's the king. His king. And that moment for me was just like, oh, my God. Yeah. Just beautiful. Yeah. Mel Gibson can make a fucking movie, dog. He really can. He really can. You know what I watched again recently? Apocalypto.

1:50:15Amazing. Same, by the way. It's a blockbuster movie where no one speaks English. Yep. And no big movie stars. Yeah. No big movie stars. No one speaks English. It's fucking amazing. Yeah, it is. And he used like real people that lived there. Yeah. Good for him, man. Good for him. What a fucking swing. Yeah. He's a fascinating guy. Like his brain is like, he's just rattling all over the place all the time. First time he was on the podcast, he had a pen and he couldn't stop clicking it. Oh God. Like the entire time. Click, click, click, click, click, click. You fucking crazy person. Put the pen down.

1:50:51Oh man. That was a cool dinner though. He told me some stories of Braveheart. Wow. Just riding the horse to all these cameras, like ripping the horse to one camera, seeing the shot, going to the next, seeing the shot, going in, doing the speech, going, looking at playback. Wow. Just like, and then he's like falling asleep, standing up. He was so tired. Like, that's like epic stuff. And talk about realism. Like those fights. Oh, no, they were horrible. Still holds up. Yeah. That soundtrack. Come on. That was an incredible movie. Like my dad played the bagpipes. He played actually in the world championships in 95 in Scotland.

1:51:31Really? Yeah. From Canada? Yeah. Went to Scotland? Yeah. Wow. And then he, so the pipes to me, like I remember he was an alcoholic and not a lot. He wasn't around a lot. And he, I remember some of my best memories were like, you know, the fucking sound of the pipes when you're putting air in, it's the worst sound in the world. It's like a rabbit, like getting bludgeoned. And we would be at Christmas and all my cousins, his side of the family, and he would walk downstairs and you could hear this, these fucking pipes getting air put in. And you could tell he had a few and he was, he would come up and stand in the middle of the living room and just rip the pipes.

1:52:17And everyone's just like full stop and just beautiful. And he'd play in Barbados. He worked in Barbados doing a lot of like the pavers, the golf pass, and he'd play at funerals. Wow. How did he do in the world championships? I don't know. That's a good question, but it's a great story. So Primeval, I was fly fishing in the Madison, just West Yellowstone. I had four days off, so I went home to Bozeman and was fly fishing. Only my favorite spot in West Yellowstone. my bro calls me and he's and i'm like i just caught like a 20 inch rainbow or something and i'm fucking ripping into my brother being like this fucking i'm killing it the rod's on fire right now and he's like ah uh so my dad raced cars as well and his race car name or his we called him gooey growing up and he's like gooey's got 48 hours to live and i was like ah fuck all right um literally just verbatim like that like I saw him the last 19 years I saw him twice and one time was in Montana and he had early onset dementia and my brother drove him down great stories there but so I drive I take my adventure van drive up to Kelowna my hometown and I've got this big beard from primeval and I hadn't talked to one of my brothers in years and then I I was still close with the oldest and get to the hospital.

1:53:49And he's I turn his wheelchair around and I'm like, hey, hey, gooey. And he's like, who the fuck are you? Whoa. Yeah. And he's on like oxygen. And I'm like, I'm your youngest son. And he's like, what are you doing here? And I'm like, I'm just here to say hi and hang out for a couple of days. And he was like on point, like his brain was going. and um and it was a little like i hadn't seen my one bro forever so how long had it been since you'd seen him before that years a couple years yeah probably two years and is it dementia that he didn't recognize you or the beard no the beard it was the beard and i was limping with that fucking toe and um so uh we go up to his room this is a friday at noonish and he's great though like so we had this young doctor he's like 40 great guy i go and sit down with him he's like i'm like dude he's dialed like what do you mean he's gonna fucking die like he's on point and uh He's like, this is what happens.

1:55:02Sometimes when somebody like this, he doesn't know he's dying, but he is once like all three of us brothers, all three of his sons were there. And it's like a high and everything. He's just dialed into it all. Just very present because everybody's there. Yeah. And he's like the doc is like, man, I have a feeling all three sons haven't been together with him. And I'm like in 25 years. and so we were all there and i had my assistant back in um santa fe and i was like hey my dad played for colonna pipe band and i was like call her i'm like you gotta help me here get a piper and to come play for him at the hospital and she's like on it and she was great and uh the next the next or friday night i'm like gooey what do you want for breakfast and he's like give me something I shouldn't have give me like a fucking Costco muffin and uh and a stupid amount of whipped cream and a coffee and so of course I go overboard and bring him this fucking ridiculous the big chocolate chip muffin and and uh the coffee in the next morning but he had gone from like dialed to he's hurting and uh so we got this piper to come we fucking we're not allowed to do this We bring them out in the courtyard and, uh, and the Piper comes and he's asleep.

1:56:30And she's like, uh, what do you, what do you want me to play? Like they know of my dad that he had played for the Kelowna pipe band. And, and I'm like, I don't know many songs. And, um, I just obviously amazing grace and stuff like that. And so she's just rips it and he wakes up and we're all buckled emotionally. Right. because this whole the pipes to us is just like that's our father that's like our only memory one of our only memories for him so um she plays two songs and he's falling asleep again and he wakes up and he's and i'm like gooey you got one more song and he's like okay he was a mama's boy loved his mom and uh and she was amazing and um he's like play one for my mother so i think at that point he knew he was about to go see her and uh yeah so we have all this on video and and um his brother was there and his wife and uh his best friend growing up and so we fucking the nurse comes out after the pipes they're not obviously the whole fucking hospital can hear this and so we're obviously got caught and she's like bring him up now and so we're like yes yes ma 'am so we fucking have him in his bed and you know those like um wheelchair ramps it's like a hard 90 degree he's out he's sleeping and my middle i'm the youngest of three boys my middle bro's big and then my other bro's like six two big boy too and we're fucking we got him and we're stuck in that turn so now it's like weekend at bernie's and this is like a a pain movie where it's like he's fucking i'm like hey gooey's stuck boys he's stuck we can't get over this fucking corner because the bed's too long and uh we're dying like we needed a laugh and uh so i looked down and Gooey's arm is like fucking crooked, jammed in that bar.

1:58:38Oh, no. Yeah. So I'm like, oh, whoa, whoa, back up a bit. So we back, loosen it up. And it's like, it's not broken, but he didn't feel any of this shit. So we're like crying laughing because it's like a weekend at fucking Bernie's moment. It's our dark humor, man. Right. You got to laugh in those moments. Yeah, I guess you have to. Yeah, because we were just buckled 10 minutes earlier. Get him to the room, and he's in and out sleeping. And the next day, on Father's Day, I had to drive back to Bozeman. And we have dark humor. And so everyone's in the room, and I'm like, all right, get the fuck out of this room.

1:59:24Everybody, like a joke. But the nurses are like, oh, my God, what happened? And I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. It's a joke. I just want 10 minutes with him. And then I got to go. I got to go back to work, but I'm going to say goodbye. And so they leave and he's like kind of in and out of consciousness. And he would wake up and look right through you like he's trying to be with you or present or I don't know. That's kind of how I took it. and uh he's fighting consciousness i guess and um small little side note i was driving and the shaman who was helping me for primeval he texted me once i got into canada and he was like hey i had a dream you gotta fucking call me and i'm like i don't know if i believe this stuff but I'll call you and so I call him and he's like hey something's up And I'm like, I've told three people that my dad's going.

2:00:24and he's like I had a fucking dream that you're about to lose someone I don't know if they're close to you and I hate calling this is a crazy call but I'm gonna listen to this and I'm like man I'm on my way to say goodbye to my dad he goes okay that's what it is yeah how weird is that yeah what is that I know I don't know what that is I'm still and uh he's like how like tell me about your dad. What, what kind of guy was he? I'm like, not very present. He drank a lot. And, uh, you know, some regrets of course, and, um, this and that. And he goes, okay, I'm going to set up an altar and pray for him.

2:01:02And this is what I think is going to happen. Um, he's not going to cross over very easily because of the life he's lived. And so when I'm one-on-one with my dad I started the conversation I'm like gooey it's me and uh out and he had uh soft hands that's one thing I remember so I grabbed his hand and our humor I'm like yeah these are a little fucking soft gooey like maybe you should have worked harder like no calluses like nothing just you know just trying to and then I went into like the non-profit and I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna try and give back and this and that and i promised him and um and during that conversation he would try and like be conscious and he was fighting to be there present yeah but he was i think gone yeah um and then two hours i i left and then on the way home i broke hold and he had passed on father's day and then um then i was back to work on tuesday fucking riding banana bread my horse yeah with like shea wiggum who's an amazing actor he played jim bridger in that but um yeah pete was great with me on that did that help you like hold a feeling of loss for your your character i think it i mean how crazy art simulating life and vice versa i'm playing a guy mourning right and then all of a sudden like my father who i didn't really have died but it's still your dad you know and um and pete was like hey this you know do you want to ride banana bread into this into this shot or walk them or and uh i'm like i'll ride them in and i was doing a scene with shea wiggum and it was beautiful because i was upset that some knew that it's my news to tell you know but some had already knew the crew so i was a little rattled at that when I got to set because everyone was very fragile with me, which I understand.

2:03:08But I was like, whoever told you guys, it's not your story to fucking tell. It's mine. If I want to share it with the crew or whoever. But so I was a little upset on set, but then a lot, it was so beautiful, man, because a lot of these older guys on set would just come up and be like, man, my father was this guy to me, this guy, but you know, I just, I feel you. And they would share all their father stories so it was a beautiful experience and um pete was great and betty gilpin was amazing and in that scene i just buckled like walked away from the uh fort bridger and i just was pretty emotional and and uh pete was like amazing and then we shot the scene he's like go home and then i got to my trailer and literally to the minute uh of when i went down that was the minute he got cremated.

2:04:02Yeah. And then, um, but I do think it was really cathartic to be playing that guy. And then I had a beautiful sweat after, and I mourned him the right way. You know, it did knock me though, for like, I'd say six months after I was like, what am I doing? Am I doing everything or enough? Am I living my life enough? Because even if he's not in your life, You're still like to witness that is it was heavy. Yeah. But I had more than I'm right. And, you know, I'm in a good spot now. But it was an interesting thing of you just take stock, I guess. I've never lost somebody close to me, especially in that way.

2:04:49So, yeah, it was just a blessing to be still on set working and doing that. Yeah, sometimes you just need to appreciate people and sometimes it takes a loss before you appreciate others sometimes It's just like you just get too used to people You get used to them being around you take them for granted. Yeah, and then if they're gone you just That's you know what Joe that's what I was fucking literally saying. He's just gone when I was just like that lived in New York uh at a best friend that was a drug addict and uh he was a crack addict at one point in time and then uh later he started getting into uh harder stuff like opiates and yeah and he died of an overdose and um i moved to la in 94 but you know we stayed friends we hung out he would come out to visit me i'd go to visit him but he was always fucked up he was always a mess came to my house once detoxed i didn't know that that's why he wanted to come to la but he came to la and he He was just so sick.

2:05:49He just laid in bed for four or five days. Yeah, brutal. And then, you know, a couple days later, he had to go back to New York. But he died of an overdose. And another buddy of mine that I'm good friends with called me up, that we were all tight together, and called me up. And it just never made sense. I was like, how is he not here? Yeah. How is he gone? Like, it just fucked me up where I knew he was gonna die. I knew it was gonna happen, but I couldn't believe it happened. and then you know you got to go back to work i know back to life you know just and you feel so like a piece of you's missing yeah like the world doesn't make sense truly a person isn't in the world anymore it's so hard to imagine until it actually happens so abstract almost and like you said even if like i had i had enough time to understand he was going right but when they're gone it's just totally different yeah yeah and then you just take stock and you're like okay i go am i doing enough am i whatever it is just tell people you appreciate them sometimes yeah that's sometimes that's all it forgave them yeah like i didn't hold i wasn't that son that was like fuck where were you why didn't you do this for me blah blah blah i was who he is yep and you learn that as you get older yeah people are who they are and some people also they grew up with monsters yeah that's the other problem if you try to pretend that you know your parents should have their shit together because you have your shit together and they were your parents no well who raised them they were raised by people living in the depression yeah i mean yeah they were raised by animals yeah like yeah we've only been truly civilized truly humans have only been truly civilized for the last few decades truly i think most of history is just horrific barbarism it's just slaughter and yeah and crime and repeat yeah yeah over and over and over again until we developed the ability to communicate how bad that is and it doesn't fix it it fixes it a little it gets it makes it a little better but still still even today you know there's but the pipes so every time i hear the pipes i'm like ah it gets you yeah oh i'd imagine now i do want to go to scotland Scotland's beautiful.

2:08:10Yeah, I haven't been. I've been there a few times. Really? I love it. Yeah, I love it. People are very cool. It's not overcrowded. And if you can get past the rain, which is kind of a good break every now, especially if you live in L.A. Yeah, yeah. It's a good break to see rain everywhere where they're like, good luck starting a fire out there. Yeah, yeah, right. You know. And to go into the Highlands and maybe take a motorcycle trip. I do want to go and watch those world championships. Oh, yeah. Oh, the Highland Games? So the guy, I hired three pipers for his funeral. Oh, wow. And I got this on fucking video.

2:08:44And I pull into the parking lot, a little church in the middle of my town. And they're doing the fucking putting the air in the bag. And I was like, this time it crushed me. And I took a video from my truck and I went out, introduced myself. And he's like, you're not going to fucking believe this. And I'm like, he's an older guy. and he's like I played next to your father at the world championships wow wow like just randomly this is the guy playing the funeral wow and uh he was fucking amazing and uh he stayed a while and then it was like this little church you go into this little gymnasium kind of spot and he stayed and played in the back.

2:09:30And some of my, that I didn't know, but some of my dad's favorite songs. So I had those on video too, but it was just beautiful. Wow. Yeah. And it brought all three boys back together, you know. Now we're on good terms. It's been super cathartic. I was the only one to speak at the funeral. And I'm in the pew, and it's his sister, who I hadn't seen in a decade, and my two brothers and their kids and my oldest is just a puddle. He's just wearing sunglasses and just a mess. And the priest was actually quite great. He was funny. And then my other brother was in front of me and he was a puddle. And he doesn't like speaking.

2:10:19And I don't either as me. I get a little nervous or whatnot. I'm always good if I'm in character or hiding behind something. But the priest was like, okay, now's the time to say something. And the whole church is just like. And I look at Damon, my other brother Brody, and Damon looks back at me. Priest looks at me. He's like, now's the time. Oh, so you just had to decide it was you? Yeah. And then my Auntie Lee just squeezed my hand. And I'm like, I'm fucking saying something, aren't I? And she's like, yes, you are. So I get up and I just said, you know, if there's any light to this whole situation, it's that all three of us brothers are back on great terms now.

2:11:11Oh, that's good. Yeah, it's great. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. And then right back to Primeval. Yeah, right back to Primeval. Go get on banana bread. Keep his fucking heads off. Take it out on those motherfuckers. Man. Yeah, what a trip. What a trip. Yeah, that's a crazy experience, man. When you were doing the Koresh thing, what was the thing that fucked you up the most about playing him? About even preparing to play him? Trying to root him emotionally to those circumstances that were so foreign. And like the emotional beats of like, I just didn't understand it. I didn't understand how someone could do what he did.

2:11:57And then he was very woe is me. Like he played the victim incredibly manipulatively well. And I would always say he's like a great coach. And he would, a great coach would be like with you, he could train you and push certain buttons. But then he'll do something totally different with someone else. and incredibly manipulative. So I think just trying to root that and understand, I don't think I'll ever understand some of the actions, obviously, to that level, like how someone can do that. But it is all out of fear and insecurity and trauma, like that part of it, I did understand. And memorizing the Bible as a defense mechanism, Because when he's with, there was over 20 theologians that would get on the call with him.

2:12:50And I listened to child protective service calls, obviously all the Nesner calls, which was played by Michael Shannon, who's amazing. And every time he got his back to the wall and they had a point or had something or had a level up on him, he would go right into Bible speak. which nobody could keep up with him on. So he would gain that upper hand. And I would just go into a fucking dialogue about a dragon with one eye is about to come and show its face and bear its teeth and take the children. Like, what the fuck do you say to that? You know, if you're on the call. Right, right, right. And you're trying to have a rational conversation of like, let the children out.

2:13:40Right. We want these kids out. And he goes, right. And he just goes into this Bible speak. You're like, there's no real rebuttal to that. Right. And that was, he did this with child protective services too on those calls. He would just go right. And that was such an anchor to him because nobody could play a card like that. Right. Because as soon as you say words from the Bible, you're right. Right. You have to be right. And he's married to it. You're literally quoting the Bible. Yeah. And you're going to argue with me? You're arguing with the Bible. Right. It's Trump card. Truly. Yeah, truly. And he would go to like Oxford and have debates with theologians in the classes.

2:14:22And that's how he recruited a lot of people that he would win these debates and they would come and join, come to Texas. like really like he would write these letters to people and send tapes to australia and get them to come wow yeah like this was incredibly smart guy like that you have to give to him that isn't it so fucked up that someone with a brain that works that well would choose to use it in that way all just fear i mean even the way like he's talking about god and the the end of days and how he needs to bear I think around 22 children that are going to go up with him and ride a cloud up there and all these crazy things he had the answers to aliens uh so what was that answer I can't remember but people I do want to know the to your point though it's like he ended up shooting himself in the head right which ironically you don't go to heaven if you do that which is um But also like he does all this shit and I don't know, just that was a big thing for like Paul Sparks and I played my right hand man of like when we shot that death scene of like, man, like I do wish to your point, he was still alive and we could learn shit.

2:15:44you know all these guys they end this like they drink the fucking kool-aid in the bed or the fucking like it's such a fascinating perspective that i do wish we could break that down and maybe learn something from this than just he am shooting himself in the head and burning a burning in the house what you could learn what you could learn like especially after the event like the raid on the compound and everything like what right all the people are dead like what could you learn from that guy then he's gonna be so fucked up yeah and i mean nine people survived that one of the survivors uh thibodeau was there with us his drummer oh wow every day whoa and uh yeah and what did he say he was like it goes back to your point that he still was thinking that he's coming back oh my god yeah wow so he i know wow and this didn't come out until our last week of shooting because i got along incredibly well with him and he did give us he did write a great book and give me insight to moments that i asked to be in the show but i mean he was going i don't know to north dakota or the dakotas to someone had blueprints for an alien warship and he was going to see these blueprints and we're just in between takes we're we're in between takes sitting in our set chairs and me and paul sparks and we're like hey what are you doing after this after we wrap and he went on and told us he was going to look at blueprints to this warship and we're like okay Yeah.

2:17:32Wow. Copy that. Yeah. So those are the type of guys, though, that... Wind up in Colts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sweet, man. Uh-huh. Like, very helpful, was great to us, and was very open, but, I mean, a lot of, majority of people are followers, right? So... Well, there's a lot of people out there that have brains that don't really work that well. Right. Just... Truly. That's just how it goes. Yeah. It's a very unfortunate roll of the dice, but your brain does not let you navigate through life very well. And you need someone to hold your hand and tell you what to do, even if it's completely illogical.

2:18:08And those people wound up becoming followers. I think it was the new light. He called it the new light. This is a while ago, but I think it was the new light. Dave woke up and he got everyone together and he's like, I just had a word with God and it's the new light something. and uh it's where i'm gonna i'm the only one now that is going to sleep with the women

2:18:35and this guy named norm i think he was australian or anyways this guy was like fuck that shit i'm out and like 20 30 people laughed but a lot stayed right yeah yeah you're always gonna get people that stay and then they think that if they stay he'll like them even more now yeah and those other losers who are in the way of them getting attention from dave now i'm gonna be tighter i'm staying fuck that yeah i'm team koresh you can fuck my wife bro fucking jersey on nuts it is man it is it's a weird thing that people have like encoded in us to look for a leader i know Very strange. I know. You know, I think it's just from tribal DNA.

2:19:24That's what I think. Yeah, that's a good point. I never thought about that. When we were groups of like 150 people, the only way we could survive, you got to listen to the wisest, most experienced person. And that's the tribal leader. That's how it always was. It was the greatest warrior, the one who knew where the fish were, the guy who knows what you're supposed to eat, not eat, and where the danger is. And that guy's going to help you, keep you alive. And we always have that in everything. We have it in businesses. There's always like one top monkey at the top of the pile. Yeah. That fucking carrot.

2:19:56But you see it in chimpanzees too, man. It's crazy. It's a primate behavior. All those chimpanzees, they have a tribe leader. They have one guy who's the fucking top chimp. He's running shit. It's weird, man. It's like it's encoded in us. And so for people that aren't that smart, someone like David Koresh can totally exploit that and go, I am the leader. And you're like, wow, I'm so glad I met you. I was lost without you. You are found now, my son. You are found. And also, that guy's so confident. He must be right. I'm not confident. He did say tanks were coming, and they're here. So literally, that was a big moment.

2:20:34That's what he said? That was a big moment. Wow. Yeah. That must have been freaking out. The seven seals. He was rewriting the seven seals, his final days. Oh, boy. I know. The whole raid on the compound thing is nuts. It is. Like when you see the fire coming out of the tanks, you're like, what did you guys do? There's a guy that ironically was Dick DeGurin, his lawyer. And he was speaking in Santa Fe when we were shooting this. So I'm like, full fucking stop. We're going to hear Dick DeGurin speak. He's speaking about Waco? He's speaking about his experiences as a lawyer. Wow. And he did. And I went and introduced myself.

2:21:13And there's a crazy story. it was dave's mom who called him and was like this is what's happening would you go help blah blah he was on a fishing trip i think and he's like yeah i'm gonna go so he showed up to the compound on the perimeter that was set and he's like i'm that guy's lawyer in that house you need to take me over there fbi puts him in a fucking tank and he goes to the front door in a tank and uh the door has this big p i've tried getting this in the show in the show and we couldn't but um so there's a big piano at the front door blockade dave wasn't allowed to walk by the windows all this kind of stuff this is deep into the 51 day standoff and uh dave's right hand man and the played by paul sparks and another his lawyer harvard grad i think um answer the door And Dick's like, oh, I see the bullet holes in the ceiling, a couple bodies that the ATF didn't allow you to take out.

2:22:20You got a case here, but where's Dave? And they show him the house and all this kind of stuff. And so they're back in the foyer and the piano is against the wall and they're talking. And he's like, OK, I don't I want to help, but I don't know where Dave is. and he's leaving and he's like you got a fucking case and the right hand man just goes dave was in the fucking piano listening to this whole thing what a psycho and so he got back in the tank and dave got briefed of their walk through there and anyways dick degueren was his lawyer on that what a fucking story though how crazy and i wanted to be in that piano and shoot that.

2:23:10Yeah. That would have been unbelievable. Yeah, that would have been an important part. I know. It's an important part of the story. It really is. That's how nuts he was. Yeah. He was hitting the fucking piano. So scared to get shot or didn't trust anything. God. But those guys, apparently in that tank, they were like ripping Dick DeGurin and like spitting on him and doing this kind of shit. Because they're like, you do know they just killed a bunch of ATF guys in that shootout as well. And you're going to go fucking be this guy's lawyer? Fuck you. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So. But the thing, what started off the feud?

2:23:50I don't even remember. How did bullets wind up flying? Yeah. So it was Dave had he was selling like homemade bulletproof vests and was like had these. I know. fucking and the atf were kind of spiraling out like their funding was about they were about to get defunded and they needed a win they needed it what was it the ridge uh ruby yeah there you go so they dropped the ball huge on ruby ridge right yeah so which is at the very beginning of waco and they needed a fucking win here find a cult leader into weapons selling ammunition i think and bulletproof vests and this kind of stuff and this guy's got these kids and all this is perfect and that started it of just like we're gonna go get this guy and there's a famous tape that we put in the show too where dave was like you know why didn't you just like he did this run all the time and was kind of just out and about working on the house running around he had a fucking go-kart track around the uh the compound and he's like why wouldn't you just arrest me when i'm on a run when i'm on this or that but they needed a lot of press and they needed to get funded again so they made this a spectacle and then it fucking turned into what you saw like they were they wouldn't let fire trucks come and take that fire out that's a fact and then um they're playing that music of animals being like mutilated into the compound um yeah then they were flying the atf flag i asked for that to be put in but we didn't put it in but they were flying the atf flag while it was burning down yeah it's legit wow crazy man wow they needed a win yeah and then that's so dark i know i know picture i-35 right here fucking tanks and all these armored trucks everything going down i-35 it's incredible you know and they're just sitting right in front of of the house and 51 days is fucking crazy that is crazy yeah wow i know it's just hard to believe that they would do that but then you you read the ruby ridge thing yeah they shot a woman while she was holding her baby yeah the kid in the back i think yeah yeah the dog kid dog yeah and for what I know.

2:26:34For what? For nothing. I know. Yeah. It's weird, man. It's weird. You could be an assassin for the government. Yeah. And even just think you're just doing your job. But it's like, this seems pretty fucking criminal, guys. It's a lot. Horrifically. It's a lot. It's just hard to believe that they would set up that. 77, six people died? I know. 20-something kids. Driving over the house in a tank and shooting fire into it. And then they denied doing that. They denied doing that with the tank, shooting fire. But you could watch it. You could watch the fire come out of the tank. Yeah. It's horrible shit, man.

2:27:19I know. What a role. So when you get out of that role, when you stop playing that guy, man, how long does it take before you go back to being you? probably i bet you a month six weeks till you shed it yeah yeah go do something that makes you feel you and alive motorcycle ride something get the fuck out do you like dream of that guy yeah not anymore but you did yeah oh yeah oh yeah yeah you're subconscious it's funny because it's like that's you marry yourself emotionally to said circumstance and so my subconscious and i'm sure a lot of actors will say it's like you're wide open and so you're more vulnerable i'm way more emotional and so because you just do the work and you're just your subconscious is open so my your dreams once i start dreaming a little fucking crazy visceral stuff that's when i know i'm getting closer for sure wow yeah like you're getting haunted a little bit it takes six weeks to detox you yeah and fucking exercise the ghost and then it's like you play this guy you know what's fucking crazy was acl and i was walking and prepping for waco and randomly out of nowhere This guy is talking about Waco and that it never happened.

2:28:49Like, this is so random. And I was with my buddy who's out there and I was like, holy shit. What the? We got to do this story now. Like, there's people out there that believe that it's just one conspiracy theory that never happened. That's so crazy. And I was like, what? There's people that believe everything. I know. If you can figure out the conspiracy, there's a whole group of people on Reddit dedicated to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're late to the party. Any conspiracy, just fill in the blank. There's a bunch of people that think space is fake. There's a whole online community of people that don't believe in space.

2:29:23Yeah. Okay. There's people that believe a lot. That's a big... Yeah. Just to say that alone just feels like, sorry. Yeah, it's people that like flat earth is not crazy enough. They want to take it to the next level. The next level is space doesn't even exist. Okay. You know when you get older, and people will just straight up like when they talk at you telling you false shit right you're like okay okay usually i'll bite and be like you're an idiot this is what is actually happening right but no now it's like all right sometimes get it out exhausting though you just i know shut i know it's so fake yeah how do you but they like double down triple down on it yeah um yeah i just had one of those moments used to be a lot more of those people before the internet I know man That's a dangerous game I don't read shit Which has really helped me Oh yeah That's very healthy Yeah it is I don't read any reviews Good for you I learned the hard way man I got hammered on John Carter That put me in a dark spot But yeah Had to rebuild everything But yeah that uh you're down that tunnel and you're just like like they're not just like he's a bad actor it's like this guy should die yeah you're a terrible person yeah it's nuts personal attacks the world would be better if you were never born like whoa damn fuck i know you're just trying to write a saucy article but holy shit it's a lot of fucking sauce a lot of vitriol there yeah yeah it's weird man people but that's you know they like doing that to people they don't know it's It's zero accountability.

2:31:11It's so easy and now because of social media anybody can do it Yeah, I was used to hear people's opinions. Yeah Yeah You had a movie in 1979 the general public either went to see it or did not Yeah, and it was like a word-of-mouth right and then there was like Siskel and Ebert and whoever else is reviewing Five other that was it and if the New York Times said it was good to go see it. Yeah Yeah, but now it's like fucking clickbait negative always beats oh yeah you get more clicks on a negative hit and then you know that was the beauty of like friday night lights like i never there weren't reviews really and i was just we didn't have social fucking media we're in austin no real producers on set or writers we're kind of pete set it up so great and you're just going there slinging trying shit failing trying again And it was such an amazing experience.

2:32:05Without all the extra input. Yeah, without any of the weight of like, is this going to be successful? Yeah. What does that even mean now? You know? Yeah. Well, do they still do focus groups when they do a film? Yes. They still do that. Definitely, yeah. So that's kind of like a small internet. Yeah. It is kind of because you're like, well, who are these people? Yeah. They might be like 200 morons. Yeah. Like, by the way, I like Oklahoma. Yeah. There's certain spots where, you know, like if you wanted to tank a movie, you do a focus group and, you know, some moron community where everybody's on fentanyl.

2:32:38Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You guys watch this movie. No, I slept through half, but I don't like that guy's hat. Did they get paid? Is that like a job? I don't know. That's a good question. I bet they do. I bet they do, which is then you have to factor in, okay, what kind of a person is getting paid to do focus groups? They might be a failure. They might be a really dull-witted, dull-minded person, and they get to decide the direction of this movie. And like - I don't like the ending. Yep. Reshoots. Uh-oh. $20 million reshoots. 40 % of the audience said they didn't like the ending. 40 % of the audience wouldn't pass a piss test.

2:33:13Yeah, true. Even like John Carter was like one of the highest tested movies in Disney's history. And we got hammered, obviously. But it's like, I don't know how much that moves the needle or anything. I think people distrust the media more than they trust the media now. But if something sucks, like if a critic says it sucks, it still works. Yeah. Like if I see a one-star review, I'm like, oh, that movie supposedly sucks. Yeah. Like I don't give it any other thought. It still does work. But if something's really good, people go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Fuck the critics. Fuck the critics.

2:33:51This movie rules. Yeah. Like look at Adam Sandler's movies. The critics always hate them. The audiences always love them. Always. It's the most lopsided. He's about a thousand, that guy. I know. It's crazy. His movies are fucking. He's such a sweet guy, too. He's the best. He's the nicest guy of all time. And he's a great regular actor, too. Uncut Gems was bananas. Great swing, man. That movie gave me so much anxiety. And. I was like, don't do it. He played that guy, that gambling addict, so well. So believable. Great directors, too. Yeah, it's just. It's great. Smart guy, smart move. But his comedies, I love his comedies.

2:34:27They're fun. And I love that I can watch it with my kids. Like he's got, they're funny. Like Jack and Jill is funny. It's fucking silly and ridiculous. And Al Pacino's in love with his sister, who is him. It's funny, man. It's a funny movie. It's so stupid and silly. But the critics hate those movies. They hate them. Like, okay, what are you going to see? It's an Adam Sandler movie. This is really good at making this kind of movie. If you want to go see a fun, lighthearted, silly movie with a lot of heart to it, his movies are the ones to go to. But critics hate him. It doesn't matter. If people love it, that's what matters.

2:35:06Yeah. I mean, Terminalist season one. Yes. We got hammered. Yes. And the people spoke, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it didn't matter. That's why I'm here. Yeah. Like, that's why Dark Wolf is dark. We're doing it. You know, it's because people wanted to see why Ben is fucking the way he is and made that decision. Yeah. If it didn't, there's no way we would have got that green light. There's no way. Well, because it's written by Jack. So Jack Carr, who's a good friend of mine, who's an awesome human being and also a SEAL and writes and had the goal. This is how crazy Jack is. Had the goal of first becoming a SEAL, getting military experiencing, and then becoming a great writer.

2:35:50Like he had it in his head. Did he really? Yes. He always wanted to be a SEAL. He always wanted to serve. So he wanted to do those things, get real life experience. That guy has a love of history. It's unbelievable. Incredible love of history. He's a walking encyclopedia. He's so brilliant. And his recall is phenomenal. so but but imagine that kind of decision making yeah i'm going to be a seal i'm going to go get deployed i'm going to get military combat experience and then i'm going to go write books this is his that was his like set bestsellers seven or eight and right out of the box terminal list his first book is fucking incredible it's incredible yeah but the guy prepared for it his whole life like he's a voracious reader voracious reader reads constantly can recommend books constantly he's always great about that and his so his first book out of the gate it's like he'd been preparing for it his whole life i mean when he comes on to set and we're shooting this episode five he came to budapest and his energy like he's like a kid in a candy store man it's like i'm fucking gassed out tired and like just getting beat up and here comes car and it's just the light it just brings an energy to that set that it's just like man we're so lucky to be here and you're like you know what you're kind of fucking right we are yeah and i just love that guy man super supportive right when i got the role yeah he's like not pressing me he's like i know you've played a seal before if you want any of my notes who ben is and he's like if you want that long leash here it is like i trust you like he's been nothing but amazing with me so far so he's a brilliant guy he really is really is super caring yep yeah yeah well just a great man yeah like a truly great man yeah it's it's so cool when a guy like that gets to write stories that really reflect the true lives that he led and then he knows a lot of his friends lead and it's real it's like he has a an understanding of it that obviously the success of his books and success of the series that understanding just translates in a way like oh this is very authentic yeah even like little notes man i would get with the gun work and all that kind of shit and obviously you listen but it's just like he's he comes at you of just more excitement and you don't take it personal you can't and you want to get it fucking right when you have him and jared shaw who's another seal and mendoza who's a seal and we got a uh what uh army ranger who writes a lot of it like we're surrounded by these guys every day so if they want if anything is not authentic you're i mean the bullshit meter is like fucking two feet away right you know and i love that though because they're doing a lot of my work for me helping me making me look like fucking ben right you know it's a complicated character too yeah a lot of that stuff like one of my best buddies seal and had like 200 guys under him fought in ramadi and bomb specialist guy wicked dude and um um there's a moment in the cia room and in in episode one that was written and then i kind of i've been hearing this from him for so long and so it's kind of ingrained in me of just like how there's always someone to answer to and you're never really getting the full transparent part of what they're putting you out for so i'd heard all these stories for like the last since loan i I had him on loan.

2:39:41And so that scene, I was like, this is for you, man. I'm just going to fucking go and have at it with this CIA guy. And he was at the premiere and watched it and loved that beat. But it's like I get to serve some of these guys. They don't get to have those moments. Right, right, right. And that's so fun for me to just fucking go and light them up in that room. One of my favorite scenes. Cathartic. Yeah. Yeah. So I steal from these guys. Even like, and I get it. I got hammered or Ben got hammered for being the twist of season one, right? I'm the guy who kind of orchestrated a lot of it. And I was talking to Marcus because I'm like, how the fuck am I going to root this guy, this seal that's like best friends with Reese?

2:40:31And now all of a sudden the twist is like, man, I had a hand in this. I'm the guy that put you guys down that tunnel. on that op and your whole fucking platoon died uh for the most part and um i just literally it was like a little moment that i had with latrell where he was talking about going back and dying with his boots on and i was like really settle into what that means this warrior is just decidedly going to die over there serving it's beautifully tragic and i was like that is where i hung my hat with Ben of like how I can root this crazy twist of like, I'm making this decision for you, but you're going to go die with your boots on instead of this fucking, you're going to die rotting in this hospital bed, no insurance, your family, all this kind of shit.

2:41:23I'm like, I'm going to take that decision for you. So that's where I rooted Ben for season one. Yeah. And then I go and open, the Mike Murphy Museum with Dan and Marcus and a lot of other seals, obviously. And a lot of the seals were like, I fucking get it. You know, but a lot of people just were like, how could you? And I get that part, too. But it was just like... Both things are true. Yeah, truly. Yeah, both things are true. How could you and I get it. Yeah, yeah. He's a human being. Yeah. And, you know, that's one of the reasons why the show is so interesting because people are fucking super complex and how fucking gray it all is yep and how it goes back to like you're in mourning of a buddy uh you you broke this promise his family's dead and now i'm on an op and i get in front of the guy that killed this guy's family i'm gonna fucking put him down fuck this i'll take the beauty of ben too in this is he's accountable for it like i'll take it take my trident then i'd do it all over again which is a beautiful thing and i think he does like it's it's a very it's an emotional reaction that you know phrase his life and uh the other character uh uh raf's character he gets his trident taken but it's that's one thing we were talking about earlier i'm just like it's so fucking gray and And in these really split decision moments that you have, and these guys aren't fucking robots out there.

2:43:00It's like they're emotional. They're fucking trained, like better than anybody. But at times they have to make these decisions that is like, okay, you're going to fucking put those girls on a black market or sell them or put them in the sex trade. You don't get to live anymore. I'm going to do that. But that's a beautiful thing too. Yeah. And people can relate to it. Because if you were in that scenario, what would you do? And most people would like to believe. They would say, you're not going to live anymore. Yes, exactly. We have these talks on set all the time. On American Primeval, we can romanticize the 1850s, or at least I did at the beginning, of like, this guy's a fucking mountain man.

2:43:43This is sick. He's a motherfucker. If you see me on the river in 1852, and you're like, I want your jacket. you're going to just come up and kill me and take my jacket. Yeah. Like that's how fucked up the 1800s were back then. Lawless. Lawless. And so we started shooting and I was like, we're shooting at 10 ,000 feet up there and you're cold and we're still spoiled, obviously. Your trailer's 50 feet away. But it's like, fuck this. I'm like, there is nothing in me that would want to be in the 1850s. Nothing. Nothing. No. I can't believe people made it through. I can't either. It's hard. I can't either.

2:44:26And those people were living in a lap of luxury compared to people who lived 4 ,000 years before that. Oh, my God. Good point. 200 years earlier. Yeah. It's nuts. I mean, it's like what we were talking about earlier. Civilization is super recent. I mean, it's not. Obviously, there's ancient Egypt and all that stuff. But, I mean, what we're dealing with right now is super recent. Yeah. Relative safety. Relative security. relative you know i mean do you do you when you go hunt you're utah backcountry wherever you're going you're going to be in the shit it's going to be beautiful and quiet and like i live for that yeah well that's why montana is a great it's a great place to hunt too yeah and montana is a truly wild place yes i mean outside of bozeman right yeah 30 30 minutes outside yeah 30 minutes It's outside.

2:45:19You've got like a truly beautiful, incredible, just, if you've never experienced the mountains, like the true mountains, especially when there's some snow on the ground and the winds whistling around, it's like, it's majestic. It's like the most extraordinary work of art that nature created. Yeah. There's something about like mountains. Really? It's like awe-inspiring. It's like, wow. Makes perspective sinks into you. You're in the moment. And it's weird that very few people live near him. I know, right? It is. Because when you get there, when you get there, you're like, oh, my God, I want to see this every day.

2:46:01Then you're on a flight to New York in two days. I lived outside of Boulder for a while. Oh, beautiful. And it was like that every day. It was like you're just driving through these mountains. Like, this is incredible. Yeah. Like, this view that you have is like a vitamin. It really is. It restores your soul. Yeah. Look at this place. And it's not a coincidence that people in mountain communities are chilled out. Yeah, you're right. It's not a coincidence. They're surrounded by this overwhelming majesty of nature. And it's humbling. Yeah, it is. It makes you a little chiller. Totally. Yeah. And I think for me, too, it's so good for the brain for all those reasons.

2:46:39But also, it's just like, if I'm sitting around feeling sorry for myself or whatever it is, bored, it's like, it's your fucking fault if you're bored out there. there right there's a thousand hikes go get into wildlife go to the national park go for a fucking walk anything fix your perspective truly yeah and it does it does it does after a intense roll or whatever it is once i land in bozeman man i get on the bike or whatever go fly fish it's like it's it's a beautiful thing and there's less people there so yes yeah you don't feel the buzz Yeah. Relax. Yeah. Yeah. I just bought a$35 fucking protein shake before I came here.

2:47:22In Austin? Yeah. I was like. What the fuck is in it? I look up. What's in it? It's like, I don't know, probably like koala DNA that's going to give me hard for the next seven days or something. Grass-fed tallow. Yeah. Yeah. Where'd you get it? But I was just like. Just down the road. How do they charge$35 for a smoothie? That seems a little outrageous. I keep adding shit. I was adding. Oh, you were adding protein and stuff. Yeah, creatine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was like, what's happening? Yeah, it's not Montana. But even Austin, like compared to where I lived before, I lived in LA and living here is like, there's only 2 million people.

2:48:01Yeah. It's so much more. Yeah, yeah. Like what they think is traffic is adorable. Yeah. It's just cute little traffic. It's true, man. It's true. LA is insane. It's just a terrible way to live. It really is. Yeah, it's a terrible way to live. Yeah. And I think I get how people used to want to live there because it was the center of, you know, the TV business, the comedy business. But it's not worth it, kids. No, no. It's not good for the soul. I mean, nothing's being filmed there anymore. It's rare. It's just. Weird, right? Yeah. It is, man. Like, how did that happen? I don't know. How did they fuck that up?

2:48:34I know. How did you fuck up the one spot where everybody wanted to move to to be an actor? You fucked up that spot? Yeah. And they have everything. Yeah. Mountains, beaches, fucking. You can get to the mountains, to the shore in two hours. You're up in Big Bear. Yeah. You're down in Santa Monica. Two hours. Yeah. It's nuts. Studios, everything's there. Yeah. Yeah. And they fucked it up. Yep. Brutal. What the fuck is happening? I don't know. I know. I don't know. I'd blame politics, but I think there's a lot of other stuff going on, too. Yeah. I just think the people running it, it probably takes exceptional people to have real vision and learn how to keep stuff together.

2:49:14Yeah. I don't know. I don't know either. I'm not a big fan of L.A. Yeah. Yeah. I lived here for 17 years. Did you love it here? I did. Yeah. Yeah. I love the lake life. It's nice. It's fucking amazing. It's a chilled city, too. It's like genuinely good people here. Yeah. There are. Normal people. Yeah. You know? Yeah. In L.A., everybody is like a failed actor, wanted to be an actor, trying to get on a reality show, looking to be a tiktok influencer oh god everybody's got something and they want something from you always always yeah and every connection they make is like a networking thing every new friend becomes someone is an asset an asset yeah because it's like very transactional yeah gross yeah it's gross yeah well listen brother you're a very interesting guy and uh you got some awesome stories and you're a really great actor and so thank you i've been a fan for a long time likewise this was really fun thank you thanks for having me my pleasure brother um tell everybody one more time terminalist dark wolf it's available now on amazon which is great and i know the terminalist killed it for amazon yeah it's a huge we're number one right now that's amazing yeah thanks that's awesome it's a great show it's a great show all right my pleasure bye everybody