#2418 - Chris Williamson

27:40We're trying to be empathetic. We care about these people. Well, even if that's done at the exclusion of female athletes, right? People are prepared to show – they're prepared to do whatever is needed to appear good. Yes. And the alternative, which it makes complete sense, who wants to do good while looking bad? Right. That's – the thing you're saying is so important. They will sacrifice everything to appear that they're doing good because that's really what they're worried about. And that is all stemming, at least in part, I should say not stemming, but certainly accentuated by the social media world that we're living in now.

28:20Because everyone has this opportunity to appear like there's something other than they are. They're using filters. They're standing in front of a leased car. There's all the above. They're doing things. They're wearing cheap fake jewelry. They're trying to look like something they're not. And there's a culture of that. And there's also a culture that gets, well, I'm not one of those because I don't care about material goods, but I'm really interested in climate change. And so then, you know, you join up with whatever fucking climate change group that's yelling and shouting and you carry a sign and you do all these things you're supposed to do and you get free water.

28:54The whole thing is just it's a psychological game that people are playing with themselves. They try to appear that they're special and to be in competition or in battle with the other side. You know, but if you're if you're in battle with people that are saying, hey, none of these models are correct. Hey, none of these predictions have come to bear. Zero. Not a single one where they say the sea level is going to rise. There's going to be no more Miami. Nothing. Not a fucking thing has happened. Like you're wrong. OK, so we need to figure out what's right. If we can all agree that if we're doing something bad to the planet and it's somehow or another avoidable, let's work towards that.

29:36But if you're telling me we're doing something bad at the planet and then when I say, well, show me and you can't. Well, what about all these predictions? Well, they're wrong. Well, what about that movie that ever got everybody? Well, it was totally inaccurate. OK, well, you can't use that on your side anymore. I never saw that movie. What was so bad? What were the claims? An inconvenient. Let's find out. Put into perplexity what the incorrect. I was already asking what did it get right and what did it get wrong? Yeah. What did it say? That's typing it up right now. I would get fucking, I guarantee you they didn't get nothing wrong.

30:11Or they didn't get nothing right. Do you want to know which one you want to start with, right or wrong? The predictions for catastrophic events. What did it get wrong about the predictions for catastrophic events? Predictions that were incorrect. Rapid sea level rise. 20 feet. The film depicted a potential sea level rise of up to 20 feet, 6 meters, in the near future from the collapse of Greenland or West Antarctic ice sheets. While this extreme scenario is considered possible over centuries or millennia, scientific consensus does not support this happening. Imminently, current rates are much slower, even with acceleration reaching 20 feet would take many centuries.

30:49Another one, Mount Kilimanjaro, glacier melt caused by global warming. Goal attributed the shrinking of Kilimanjaro's glaciers mainly to global warming, but later research points to other major causes like sublimation and reduced snowfall unrelated primarily to temperature. Impression of imminent chaos. The film often implies that catastrophic outcomes like rapid ice sheet collapse and dramatic sea level rise might occur within decades when in reality such processes are expected to take much longer, often centuries or more. And then legal findings. A UK court found nine errors of exaggerations in the film, mostly involving a lack of clarity on time scales or oversimplified attributions like Kilimanjaro.

31:37Overall, climate scientists judged an inconvenient truth as mostly accurate with its projections, particularly in broad trends, but criticized its presentation for occasionally exaggerating the speed and certainty of some changes. Well, I think this is... Yeah, well, this is the thing. It's most... It's climate scientists judged it. I'd like to keep this climate hustle going on. So, well, they were mostly accurate. We do have a sincere problem. Stop putting a British accent on when you do that. Stop putting a British accent on when you do that. That's not even British. That's like a fake British guy.

32:03That's like a posh shithead from Connecticut. Okay, okay, okay. But you're right. The lack of scrutiny that people have of their behavior, the distance between our opinions and our deeds, never been greater. That's the internet. And what it means is you're allowed to do good while appearing bad and do bad while appearing good. and it's way easier to do bad or to just not research or and it's significantly harder if you're like i'm going to go out try and invent something try and push against an idea or an ideology or a campaign for a movement that i think is really really important and people are going to say that i'm doing something mean or people are going to call me names for doing it there's no incentive to do it why would someone go why would somebody do that and i think that's what elon's point is, right?

32:48What I'm interested in is doing good, not the appearance of it. And I see a lot of people who are doing bad while appearing good. Well, you know, I think it's through no fault of their own, young people are indoctrinated into this world when they start going to college that you have to be active and to be an activist is to be a good person to be involved in these campus activities is a good thing. And there's also there's a tribal aspect to it. You know, you're on a tribe of people that are the people that are on the right side of history. These are the people that are kind and compassionate unless you disagree with them and these these are the people that are they trust the science and less it's inconvenient and these are the people that you know you want to be in the educated Minority you want to be deep the people that get it and you want to you it's very important that you use your voice You know and so they think they're being good people and I get that and I understand that but it's being weaponized against you.

33:44And it's probably not even funded by legitimate people. It's most likely there's at least some funding by some foreign entities that are just trying to sow discord and make sure that everybody hates everybody. That'd be a wonderful way to take down any country, right? To make it feel as if it was coming from inside. Yeah, sure. There's a lot of that going on. That's been absolutely proven. There was a thing recently with chat GPT where they found out that these entities in China were using chat GPT to argue about USA shutdown to like they were just they ran all these social media accounts the Twitter account thing where you can see where the accounts are based yes I know the one of the ones that is like a fan account of uh the JRE people thought it was me forever and I was like i didn't correct it it says i made it say parody accounts or it says either commentary account or parody account or whatever fan run account just so you don't think it's me because people do things to me it's in asia so someone in asia is doing that allegedly unless he's got a vpn i mean you could you hard-working asian supporting the joe rogan podcast but you could right that's the question like how do they know where you're from if you sign up rinse takes your laundry and hand delivers it to your door, expertly cleaned and folded.

35:04So you could take the time once spent folding and sorting and waiting to finally pursue a whole new version of you. Like tea time you. Mmm. Or this tea time you. Or even this tea time you. So did you hear about Dave? Or even tea time, tea time, tea time you. Mmm. So update on Dave. It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rinse. it's time to be great with a vpn and you say i'm in the south pacific like how do they know i don't know i don't know i i certainly know that um assuming that you're on the right side of history uh especially if you're in a big group is often a bit a dangerous position to be in so that cassandra complex thing that i was talking about before um sometimes people might say it's your duty, if you believe in a thing, to stand firm.

35:58You should make your case known. You know, you're Ignaz Sammelweis. You know about the germ theory of disease. You're Rachel Carson. You know about the impact of DDT. You're Edward Snowden. You know about the surveillance that's going on. There's a really wonderful example, the comparison between Copernicus and Galileo. So Copernicus in the 1500s, he begins to realize that the earth might not be the center of the solar system, let alone the universe. And he has enough evidence to justify it, but he waits until his deathbed to actually sort of whisper out his great work, which is the revolution of us, this work that he made.

36:35And he does it on his deathbed, presumably to avoid the wrath of the church. Now, some sort of hardline freedom fighting, you should do it. Don't listen to the man. Don't back down. Like just stand on your principles. People would say, well, that's a cowardly thing to do. You knew what the truth was and you didn't stand by it. And 100 years later, Galileo comes along. He sees the moons of Jupiter, sees the phases of Venus, sees the pockmarks on the surface of the moon. And he realizes that the heliocentric model, this like Copernican revolution, is true. Proclaims it from the rooftops. What happens to him?

37:08House arrest. He gets put under house arrest. He gets forced to recant under the threat of torture and spends the rest of his life under house arrest. So what you have here, and I fucking love this example so much. I think it's so cool. It's two guys, 100 years apart, with the same realization. And the justification for the first one not saying what he didn't say loudly is the treatment of the second. I think it's like just this perfect explanation of irony. You know what I mean? Like it's so perfect. And you go, well, the main issue that I have with like – basically being right and early often feels a lot like being wrong.

37:46and if you make a an example of somebody in that way it is basically you saying if you step out of line too far this is what's going to happen to you and it causes people who are trying to move conceptual inertia forward we're trying to do research i'm trying to assess whether or not this is actually the way that the world should be it causes them to be more copernicus not more Galileo. And I think that is not what you would want in a civilization that's trying to continue to make progress. You would want to be accepting of new ideas and you would want to encourage them as opposed to castigating people.

38:24Do you think that social media and the influence of other people's opinions, it makes someone more likely to be able to think for themselves or less likely? Like more likely to be able to examine preconceived notions, recognize like, oh my God, maybe I'm biased or maybe it's just like a group bias that I've accepted because of all the people around me. And I think this is wrong. And I think this is what I think is really going on. Do you think it encourages that kind of thinking or discourages it? I think it certainly encourages groupthink, very much so. But both, right? It would open up the opportunity for some people with a very unique psychological profile to be able to step back against it.

39:13Black helicopters. Yeah, there's a few guys out there I can think of. But I think on average what you're seeing is basically this huge big swath of people. For the first time ever, you're able to aggregate just how much support or criticism something has. Yeah. This is what like to dislike ratios are. This is what upvote to downvotes are already. And I think that that causes people – most people don't want to have to do the thinking of coming up with an original opinion. I'm sure that most of mine aren't original. But given the fact that doing the original thinking is hard, most of the culture war is actually two armies of puppets being ventriloquized by a handful of actual thinkers.

39:54Most people are just being brought along and pushed along by people who came up with an idea. And they're assuming, well, we know this for a fact. Well, it's interesting because both sides know for a fact the thing that the other side says is a lie. So that can't be true. See, I get the sense that it causes people to adhere to the crowd more, more than they would have done previously. And you also have to think that if you're spending that much time on it, like six hours a day, it's one of the primary influences of your life. Probably more so than any other media in the past. because it was very rare as a child that you would listen to six hours of the news.

40:33You wouldn't really be indoctrinated into six hours of whatever the latest cultural dilemma was or the latest social issue was. You wouldn't get that much of it. You'd get people talking about it like normal people do during the day or maybe you'd be talking about a newspaper article you read, but you're not getting six hours of it all day long. But now we are, at least six hours. I mean, what is the – let's find that out. what's the average number of hours a 18-year-old kid is on social media? I would guess it's at least. Social media, maybe four. Let's just say their phone, screen time. Screen time, at least six, probably more.

41:09At least six, probably more. And the mad thing to consider here is your parasocial relationships. Think about this. People will listen to your show and listen to my show more than they see their parents. Oh, yeah. By a huge margin. Huge margin. If you saw your parents that much, it'd be kind of creepy. The average screen time for 18-year-olds, seven to eight hours of total screen time per day is common, though it varies a lot by person and country. Okay, what country has the least amount of screen usage? Would you want to discount school time, too? Because aren't they on screens technically in school?

41:47You're asking phone time, I guess, right? Yeah, I think it's personal phones they're talking about. Are they on screens? I mean I've noticed I'm counting my laptop open in my scream time because I'm connected to the same like iOS system So I'm getting like 18 hours a day, but I'm like I'm not on my phone 18 hours a day Interesting So let's guess like what countries well you'd have to have first-world countries for it to count You know like if you're in the Congo you probably don't get as much screen time No, you're busy mining the fucking yeah raw materials exactly You're making the phones, not using them.

42:24Which is the craziest thing of all. The thing that people virtue signal on the most at the end of the line is someone pulling an out. Lowest global average. Interesting. Three hours and 56 minutes is still a lot of time. That's kind of crazy. But they're probably a little healthier with it. How is nine hours and 24 minutes less than 10 hours and 56 minutes? How is that the highest global average if 10 hours is the? That's weird. I don't understand. Yeah. Close contender is more than the highest global average. I don't know. I don't get it. But either way, the Philippines, they're killing the game.

43:0010 hours and 56 minutes. Dude, there was a 2023 mental health report. The UK came in second most depressed country in the world. Second? Second most depressed country in the world. UK. UK, yeah. What's number one? Uzbekistan. So it's just above Uzbekistan and just below South Africa. Did the UK used to rank higher? Yes, it's tracked down over time, but it's never been superbly. I mean, misery is our, like melancholy is sort of our personality. It's our national sport, right, being a bit more melancholic. But yeah, the Ukraine, who are just about to go into their fourth year of war, came in higher.

43:43and Yemen, who apparently are going through one of the worst humanitarian crises in human history, also ranked higher than the UK. So yeah, second most depressed country in the world. That's crazy. That's a wild number, man. It can't just be the weather. It has to be like a... Weather might contribute a little bit. A little bit, like Seattle does. People in Seattle are depressed as fuck. Maybe it's the online safety bill. Could be. That would get me depressed. I would be so depressed if I lived in England right now. I'd be like I'm fucked like legitimately fucked like imagine if I was running this podcast the exact same way out of England Not why yeah, I get arrested.

44:23I get arrested. I saw them they arrested a teacher because he refused to Refer to one of his students as a they and this is like his second infraction and so they arrested him For failure to recognize a singular plural

44:44I look I really don't like I don't like shitting on the UK because it feels like I'm pulling the ladder up after I've just got out of it but it's just I don't know how many more ways you can face plant over and over again and there's this bit there's a strange kind of romanticization of the past of the UK where we are English common law and we stop the transatlantic slave trade and we use the navy and so on and so forth but like well we're really living on borrowed time now as the UK It's been a good while since the UK sort of contributed in that sort of a way. There was a, you know, Alan Turing from World War II.

45:18The Turing effect? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was the guy that decoded the Enigma machine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was gay and he was chemically castrated by the British, despite the fact that he was literally our equivalent of the atomic bomb, right? He was a very British version as well. It wasn't kinetic. It was cognitive. so he decodes the machine that the germans are using to send their secret messages this means that we're able to detect exactly where the u-boats are going to be and it results in some really awkward situations like if we uh before we're going to use all of our force to try and take germany down if we avoid all of their planned bombings they're going to guess that we might have the keys to some of their communication so they had to start making decisions about which boats needed to be let attacked and which boats needed to be saved.

46:08Oh my God. They knew all of the different attacks that were coming, but if they got rid of all of them, if they were safe from all of them, the Germans would start to catch on. So they had this really... Oh God. So this guy is our equivalent of the atomic bomb, right? He's our Oppenheimer. He gets chemically castrated just after World War II. That's in the 50s, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he kills himself. He takes his own life. if he puts cyanide in an apple. Oscar Wilde in the 1800s, one of the greatest writers of all time. He's jailed and then dies in exile as a peasant in France because he was gay.

46:45And then 70 years after Turing, Gordon Brown, it's like 2008, 2009, publicly apologizes. They bring out this thing called the Turing Act, which gets rid of the criminal records of all of these people from history, like posthumous. and some of them are probably still alive actually like some of these people that had been whatever it was, convicted of indecent behavior, improper behavior at the time and then they put Turing on the£50 note so Britain has, for all that it's fantastic and I love it and it's the country that I came from like it does have a history of fucking persecuting people for what's deemed improper behavior at the time and then apologizing for it a couple of decades later and I think with the online safety bill thing just I think it's going to be the sort of thing that you look back on and go that that was not in no one's world was that a smart move I don't think that it's a I don't think that it's helping anybody at all well it just appears that they want total complete control of what people say over there and that they don't want criticism of the government and criticism about immigration criticism about you know fill in the blank they don't want it and the best way to stop that is to keep everybody scared, make everybody self-censor.

48:00What's the best way to make everybody self-censor? Put a bunch of fucking people in jail. So last year, what was it, 12 ,000? 12 ,000 people got arrested for social media posts? Supposedly more than Russia, although the Russian stats might not be... Yeah, well, they didn't arrest them. They just shot them in the face. They don't count that. Gulag for you. Yeah, they just kill folks over there. But yeah, it's really bad. It's really bad. And it just doesn't seem very progressive. It doesn't seem like you're moving towards the future. It's not progress. Like this, we figured out a long time ago that free speech is very important to figure out what's right and what's wrong.

48:39And when you suppress people's speech, you can get away with a lot of fucking horrible things because you stop people from being able to protest it. You know, in a small part, we saw a lot of that during the pandemic. And, you know, you see what the consequences of that are. You can't trust people that want power. You just can't. What do you mean? Anybody that wants any kind of control over a group of people, if you want to control what they say, if you want to control where they go, you want to put them in 15-minute cities, you can't trust that because the natural inclination when someone has power is to never let it go and to ramp it up.

49:16They're in the power business. If you're in the power business, you don't want to keep making the same amount of money every year. You don't want to have the same power every year. That's boring, right? Like if you're an insurance salesman, you want to be the fucking employee of the month You want to make more money next year. You got your eyes on a new Lexus. You're trying to make more you're not trying to stay Maintain that's not the game you're in and if you're in the power game and if you're in the game of enacting new laws in order to We need safety safety under the guise of safety You can get so much evil shit done and if you start doing that you're not gonna say you know what guys we were that safety bill we were really wrong and what's really important is discourse what's really important is that maybe I wonder why you think the way you think and you know maybe part of this polarization process is not enabling us to see valid points the other side has let's all come together and talk about this as reasonable human beings it's no that's not what they're gonna do they're gonna come up with more fucking reasons to put you in a cage they want you to shut the fuck up because they want to make more they want to have more they want to get more power they want to be the best leader they want to be the most powerful leader isn't that a ruthless part of human nature that trajectory is more important than position jimmy carr taught me this um so your industry imagine that you're the uh 250th best comedian in the world let's imagine there's a ranking uh and last year you were the 300th you were in a more psychologically preferable position than somebody who's number two in the world, but last year I was number one.

50:51This sense that humans have of where am I now compared to where I was previously. I spoke to Dan Bilzerian about this forever ago, and I was like, dude, you've kind of climbed the peak of the mountain of hedonism. Did you ever think that you kind of front-loaded it too much and that it's going to be really, really difficult for you to ever do a hedonic reset? How do you go from the most amount of girls and the cars and all the dopamine that the world has to offer? Where do you go from there? And he basically said, yeah, he was like, I'm going to try. I would consider shaving my head and my beard and going and working in an Amazon warehouse for six months to see if I can do like a hard reset.

51:27But you always know that you've got the get out of jail free card. So it's not going to be the same. And just the idea, as you're saying, somebody has power. They want more power. Right. They want more power. They want more control. that sense that's the sport they're playing bingo scoring they're scoring you have to keep score Greta Thunberg the same thing we need more eyeballs we need a bigger bigger because where do you go after you've made the rivers of Venice green yeah well you need to do something bigger something more I need more likes that's that didn't get me enough likes I need more likes I need to go viral it's a ruthless I'm being shadow banned no you're not your content just sucks no one think like some people get shadow banned but most people that are shadow banned they just suck yeah most people just don't understand that they're not interesting but there's definitely real shadow banning going on one of the things that was interesting is that once elon purchased twitter i gained like five million followers over the course of like a couple of months i was like what's going on it's because i was i was somehow or another they had locked my followers down this i'm not complaining about this i'm just observing i know i have a lot of followers.

52:38It's ridiculous. But I started, I think I had 7 million and I used to go up pretty steady. And then somewhere during the woke days, during the dark days of woke, when it all started happening, which is around, I think 2014, 15, 16, it started really ramping up. And then it seems like from 16 on real censorship started really kicking into high gear because then they had a reason for it. Donald Trump is our president. We have to make sure this never happens again. In fact, there was a meeting, I believe. I don't want to say the tech company because I might be incorrect. But one of the people, one of the main people at this tech company specifically said at the meeting, we have to make sure this doesn't happen again.

53:26As in Trump being president? They did a fucking horrendous job there. Well, they fucked up. But the point being, imagine you are in control of an enormous platform, an enormous media platform that controls the discourse of untold billions of people in the world. And you have a very specific mandate that you've given to the people that work for you. We have to make sure that we control who the king is, because that's what you're saying. Are you saying we want to make sure this doesn't happen again? Well, how do you do that? How do you do that if 50 % of the people don't agree? By force. There's only one way.

54:05You have to do it by force. Or if you control the narrative, then you just hide information, accelerate information that's incorrect. You just ban people from communicating. You kick people out. Well, I mean, some people would say that getting to choose who's king is what you do if you then buy that social media platform. Sure. There's an argument for that, like what Elon did. There's a real argument for that. But there's also an argument for don't you think it's a good idea if we have at least one of these motherfuckers that's huge that you can go wild, wild west on and say whatever you want?

54:41I think that's very important. You don't have to agree with them. There's all these tools you can use. One of them is the mute button. You can mute people. Bye-bye. I don't want to hear you anymore. You're annoying. Or you can ban them. I don't even want you looking at my page. Get out of here. Those things exist. Like you can curate who you're communicating and interacting with. But if you don't have one of these groups that's resistant to intelligence agencies shutting down legitimate voices, including during the COVID times, it was guys like Jay Bhattacharya from Stanford, guys from MIT, because they were saying something that didn't jive with what the agenda that Fauci was pushing through.

55:24Where do you think we're at now? If you were to sort of predict what the trajectory of the speech stuff is online, talk about America, the UK, I think is just a lost cause. Do you think that we're going to continue on this general path which seems to be a little bit more sanity. from the peak. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Have you ever lost your keys and ended up tearing your house apart trying to find them? What makes it even worse is when it's the most conspicuous, obvious place you could have sworn you checked already. It'd be nice if we had the ability to find whatever we're looking for right away.

55:59And at least for hiring managers on the hunt for talented people, that's possible. Thanks to ZipRecruiter. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. Using ZipRecruiter almost feels like having superpowers. It works quickly and efficiently at finding qualified candidates for your role, largely because they have incredible matching technology and an advanced resume database that can help you connect with people instantly. No more wasting time and energy. ZipRecruiter can help you find exactly what you want. Want to know right away how many qualified candidates are in your area? Look no further than ZipRecruiter.

56:39Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And right now, you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. I think people realize from the peak and most importantly realize from Elon's purchase of Twitter. When Elon purchased Twitter, and I don't say this lightly, I think he changed the course of civilization. I really do. I think we were on our way to this weird dystopian censorship complex that was already moving. We had already had intelligence agencies that were contacting Twitter.

57:21We know this through the Twitter files. And they were banning certain people. that weren't saying incorrect things, but they were saying things that were inconvenient. And they turned out to all be accurate. All the things that they were warning about, all the things that they're saying all turned out to be accurate. They stopped the distribution of the Hunter Biden laptop story by the New York Post. The New York Post, the second oldest newspaper in America. It's a fucking huge newspaper. To stop that from being able to be distributed on Twitter, which it would turn out to be a totally accurate story.

57:57And to stop that accurate story is wild. That is scary stuff. That, if Elon didn't purchase Twitter, we would have just had to deal with that kind of stuff. That would be, and it would accelerate. It wouldn't stay where it is. It would ramp up. It would get more, they were starting to use the term malinformation. So there's misinformation, disinformation, and then malinformation. Malinformation is factual information that might cause harm. Can you give me an example of malinformation? Children don't need a COVID vaccine. That's malinformation because it is true. Statistically speaking, like especially healthy kids, they kick it off like it's nothing.

58:39They don't need a vaccine for that, but that might cause people to not get vaccinated. That might kill your grandmother. So that's malinformation. Can you think of an example of malinformation where it's justified in doing that? Yes. I would say, like, if you had some information and you were releasing it online, that was an accurate depiction of some things that the federal government is involved with that would compromise national security to a huge extent. People overseas. Uh-huh. Yeah. We'd get people killed. How to start conflicts. Here's another one that I've just thought of. You know those desktop DNA printers?

59:27This is how to put smallpox together. Right, right. Something like that. Something which is true but would be dangerous. And the devil's in the fucking details. A hundred percent. With stuff like this. It's never binary. It's never incorrect or correct. Sometimes it's binary. Sometimes. I shouldn't say never. Some things are binary. Sure. Like whether or not you should win a fucking world's woman strong lifting, strongman power woman competition. That just happened. I thought we were done with that. It just happened. Would you know why it was able to happen? It's because that person lied. That person lied about their sex.

1:00:03Oh, interesting. Jamie, can you try and pull up an image of the current 2025 world's strongest woman winner, please? Just for clarity, Mitchell Hooper, that is the world's strongest man, Canadian dude. He's 6 '3", 330. The person who won woman's strongest man is 6 '4 and 400 pounds. She makes the current world's strongest man look like an infant. Oh, world's strongest woman, woman stripped of title after organizers discovered she was born a man. That was an hour ago, dude. Okay, so an hour ago they stripped her. Is that the person? Yep, Jamie Booker, disqualified. That's a man? Are you sure? It appears the athlete who is biologically male and now identifies as female competed in the women's open open category They were unaware of this fact ahead of the competition and have been urgently investigating I want to know what urgent investigation is.

1:01:02They went on Twitter So that's that's a biological male. That's interesting. Correct. It looks like just a big lady Had we been aware I had this been declared at any point before or during the competition This athlete would not have been permitted to compete in the women's open category The move comes after runner-up Andrea Thompson, British, hey, was filmed storming off the podium as she raged about the bullshit decision toward the title. So the other competitors evidently knew. Okay, so Thompson is now the winner. So the UK gets the gold. I think about this so much when it comes to sporting competitions.

1:01:35And it's not just with the trans thing, although this is a huge deal. And I did think that we kind of got past it. how horrible is it to be the person who won but had that moment the podium moment stolen from you by somebody i think there's a weightlifting olympics weightlifting championship final where currently like the 11th place finisher is now first because each person has progressively got popped for peds number one did that number two did the number three did it's like 11 people have been popped for PEDs now. Well, that's the Tour de France. You know, when they took away Lance Armstrong's title, so the Tour de France, what they didn't tell you that if you want to go and remove all of the people that have tested positive for something, you got to go down to like 18th place.

1:02:27For real. For real. Like all those guys were doing something. They were all blood doping. They were all taking EPO. They were putting motors in their fucking bikes. I've seen a video of that. Yeah. These guys try for fucking every edge humanly possible. So, you know, he was just a scapegoat. But what he was doing was he was suing people that were saying that he did PEDs. It's a smart way to silence them. But, yeah, I mean, thinking about I would be really interested to see what the reaction is. That's hot fucking wet clay stuff, right? Hot off the press a couple of hours ago that it's been rescinded.

1:03:04I think we would be more outraged if they accepted this transgender person as a female and then say, oh, a trans woman's a woman. Let her compete. It seems like this person lied. And so that's different. But still identify. So I agree that it's reassuring to see what the world's strongest person organization decided that they were going to do in sort of repercussion to it. but you can already predict, both of us can already predict what's going to happen online, that this person shouldn't have been stripped of their title. Maybe they lied, but they should be competing inside of this. The side of the aisle that always agrees with this, do you not think that they're going to be pro?

1:03:48I think that is slowly but surely losing traction and support. I really believe that. I believe that's where the rubber meets the road because you're going to lose most women that have ever done a sport. You know, if you are a sedentary woman that has no interest whatsoever in athletic competition and you think it's more than a good price to pay to let biological males who identify as women because we want them to be exclusive, it's more important to recognize and affirm their identity than it is to be fair. You haven't done any sports. So you're going to lose not just most of the men. You're going to lose a lot of you know, lose anyone right of center like libertarian.

1:04:37Anyone, anyone. You're going to not just lose all of the right. You're going to lose a giant chunk of the center because I think the center in this country is probably the most rational of all groups. Those are the people that recognize Kind of a little bit of everything here You know Right of center or left of center You're going to lose all those people And you're going to lose most women You're going to lose most women that have gone Most women that have daughters You're going to lose them The only ones you're not going to lose are the fucking kooks The SSRI Filled up Anti-anxiety medication Transitioning happy Kooks Those fucking kooks that you know think that you have a hierarchy of who's oppressed the most.

1:05:21And trans people are people, trans women are women, and they want to scream it out and yell it. They're just crazy. You're going to have those people that are going to be with it no matter what. Get into the boxing ring with that trans woman who's a woman. I thought the one that was a man that lied, the Olympic champion that they just took away his gold medal. I saw that story flip-flop back and forth like 10 times. It was like a Christopher Nolan movie to me. Because that person was threatening to sue a bunch of people, right? They were threatening to sue a bunch of people that called them a male.

1:05:53Made a statement, rescinded it, made a statement. Let's put this through perplexity or something where we can figure out what – I want to know what the number is. I want to know what's true because what I think is there was another organization that did a chromosome analysis and found out this person had an XY chromosome. So this is specific type of disease or genetic abnormality where your testicles don't drop. Fucking edge cases again, dude. Edge cases. It's so strange. You're going to ask it. Ask it, did that person get their gold medal taken away and why? Well, yes, they did. Right. And why?

1:06:34Just see what I know. But let's see what it says in terms of why. Why? Because they're a man. And how did they find out? Find out how they found out. Because I think the narrative is that there was another boxing organization that had already suspected something was up. Did some testing. Did some testing. Found out this person has an XY chromosome. Used that. So won the Golden Women's 66-kilogram boxing event. Strip now a de-recognized International Boxing Association previously disqualified Khalif from the 2023 Women's World Championships after she failed eligibility tests under its own rules.

1:07:10Later claimed those tests showed she was ineligible for women's competition because of these tests. IBA officials, some media and advocacy groups have publicly demanded the IOC strip or reclaim her gold medal, arguing that she could not have been allowed in the woman's should not have been allowed in the woman's category. They're still saying she. Despite those demands, IOC has defended allowing Khalif to compete in Paris, describing the IBA's disqualification decision as arbitrary and saying she met the IOC's eligibility criteria at the time. So what is the IOC's – what is their eligibility criteria?

1:07:49I mean, dude, boxing must be a fucking nightmare for this because of all of the different organizations that exist. And each one is going to have its own different set. We have a coordination problem here. Here's an even more. Here's a bigger nightmare. Prisons. Prisons have a self-identity thing. In order to be eligible for female prisons, there's a lot of prisons, including, I believe, New Jersey, California. California has 47 biological males that are housed in women's prisons. Okay. At least. Who runs a prison? Is it the state? Is it an independent organization? Some of them are independent.

1:08:23Some of them are privately owned. Chromosome test results were kept confidential by the IBA, but were leaked after and widely reported. The IOC nonetheless rejected IBA's findings as arbitrary, even with the chromosome test. That's really standing your ground. Boy, you silly gooses. Well, see, this was only 2024. So to say that maybe this is the landmark case, maybe it wasn't Leah Thomas as a swimmer. Maybe it was somebody in a physical sport. But I mean, when we're talking about the strong woman competition, dude, if you're 6 '4", I think the next tallest woman was 5 '8", or 5 '7". Think about what you're doing.

1:09:04You're like wrapping your arms around. It always gets slippery, right? Because it's like, well, there's not very many of them. So why are we making such a big deal out of it? And it's like, hey, if there's one rapist in the local community, you don't go, well, there's only one of them. Like, what's the chances that you run into? It's like, no, no, no. We try and, you know, treat this problem. So first off, there's not many of them. Then, well, you know, look at what happens when you take these estrogen, you downregulate your testosterone. It's below this particular level, therapeutic, da, da, da, da, da.

1:09:32And you go, well, yeah, but it's like being on a heavy course of steroids up until you stopped doing that. And how much of that does carry over? That gets a bit slippery. but just the size, the size of the hands of a person who's six foot four and 400 pounds compared with a woman who's probably like 220 and five foot eight, like grip strength, being able to do like, that's pretty important in the sport of strong women. All of it is ridiculous. Wrapping your arms around an Atlas stone. Yeah, you could do this forever. It's all ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's not the same. You know, it doesn't mean that someone shouldn't be able to change their name and identify as a woman.

1:10:08It's just like you can't dominate women's sports, can't dominate women's spaces. You can't. You can't. You're not a woman. You know, we'll call you one if we want to be nice. But the reality is there's a there's biological sex is a real thing. And when it comes to competition, physical competition, there's a reason we have Title IX in America. There's a reason why we recognize women's sports. There's a reason why you have it set up that women will compete against each other because it's fair. It's not fair to make women. Or else you'd just have a unisex category. Yes. And it would be dominated by men.

1:10:41Dominated by men. And then girls wouldn't have this amazing opportunity to get scholarships, which they're being denied because biological males are winning in their category because they allow them to compete. And there's a thing called – this is what people don't want to believe, but it's true. It always has existed. No, they're doing this because they really are a woman. There's a thing called sandbagging. Okay? And sandbagging has always existed. So sandbagging is let's say that you're going to enter into a jiu-jitsu tournament and you're going into the purple belt division. But you've been a purple belt for eight years and you're supposed to be a brown belt.

1:11:17And they, you know, for whatever reason you or you could even here's a worse one. Maybe you're a black belt in judo, like an elite black belt, and you enter into a jiu-jitsu tournament in the white belt division. And you're in there with some fucking dork who's a plumber who's just started taking classes. I think it would be fun to compete. And you fucking flip him on his head and break his arm in an arm bar in like 15 seconds like that's sandbagging because you're an elite athlete. You're a you're like a world class judo guy that's just thought it would be fun to put a white belt on and enter into a jiu-jitsu tournament.

1:11:53There's people that do that because they just want to win. That's why people cheat at video games. That's why people cheat at golf, right? People cheat because they want to win. They just want to get that W. And there will be there's people that will pretend they're a woman to beat up women And if you don't think that's the case you haven't met enough psychos Because are there people that are in the wrong body? I don't know. I'll give them that respect I'll give them that dignity Are there also people that are out of their fucking mind and want a Excuse to beat up women and pretend they're a woman if you tell them they could wear a dress And they could just run past all the ladies and dominate them on the field.

1:12:30Yeah, they're gonna do that, too That's a real type of human being. And if you don't have an accurate test for that, if you don't have a thing you make them lick, oh, you're a fucking psycho. If you don't have that, then you have to judge each individual situation based entirely on why would someone do this. How much crossover would that be if somebody was a black belt in judo? How much crossover is there to? An immense amount. Yeah. An immense. An immense, immense, immense, immense, immense amount. especially if it's a gi tournament, oh my God, you're virtually helpless. Helpless. Even though judo is primarily done on the feet?

1:13:10It is, but they do arm bars. They do. So look at Ronda Rousey. She has one of the best arm bars in the history of the sport. Look at Kayla Harrison. Look at all these judoos. Look at Carl Parisian. These elite judo people that were wizards at arm bars, wizards at chokes and leg locks. And of course, they're submitting each other as well. It's not exactly the same. And if they went like Gi to Gi with, you know, some prime Leo Vieira, black belt, you know, Gi master, you know, you likely would give the jujitsu person a giant advantage because they'd spend way more time submitting people. They've spent way more time working on submissions.

1:13:54So judo to jiu-jitsu in a tournament, I would say, black belt to black belt, they probably have a disadvantage in judo. But a huge advantage over a white belt. What do you think about Jake Paul Anthony Joshua? Boy.

1:14:14Well, realistically, it's one of the craziest propositions of all time. You take a guy who just had a boxing match that looks like a sparring match with a 58-year-old Mike Tyson, and then you're going to fight one of the absolute scariest knockout artists in the heavyweight division. Maybe we should watch the Francis Ngannou fight. So you could see—let's watch that real quick. Just so you could see what Anthony Joshua is capable if he's fighting someone that's not in his league. okay look Usyk beat him and he beat him twice and Andy Ruiz caught him in the first fight and dropped him and stopped him it was spectacular Andy Ruiz is super fucking talented Usyk is perhaps the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time maybe one of the maybe maybe one of the greatest of all time in any weight class Usyk you know and Usyk beat him and he beat him twice but Francis Ngannou is coming off of this fight with like go a little bit before that so we could see this happen watch this so he drops him with a right hand early and this is like two minutes into the first round and Francis gets up he survives and then Joshua check out this this combination he hits him with i mean dude the speed that he hits him with this he's so dangerous man it's like you're dealing with a guy who's an olympic gold medalist and he's enormous and he's got vicious knockout power and he's got immense amount of experience at world-class levels just think about what we said earlier fought usig twice fought andy ruiz twice oh man bro the timing in that right hand just spectacular that's stepping in as well over the top i mean that was a full four shot to the temple i mean he's he's fucksville right now so they wipe off his gloves but you look at him like He's really feeling it right now.

1:16:30I mean, he probably has no idea where he is. And Anthony Joshua flat lines him. Absolutely folded in half. Back that up again. Watch this. I mean, just steps into it with every ounce of his body. Perfect right hand. So the fact that Jake Paul wants to fight that guy, hey, I'll watch. I'm going to watch. I'm definitely going to watch. So you got me there. And if you want to show you're legit by taking on one of the scariest fucking heavyweights alive Can you get the tail of the tape of the of Paul and Joshua? I was gonna say he has to they got him in a way a great of 245. It's like seven pounds less Yeah, that's nothing but and there's some sort of a rehydration clause listen kids.

1:17:13It ain't gonna matter You know, there's not a chance that Anthony Joshua is not going to just lose the weight beforehand He's not going to come in drained. What he's going to do is just do extra cardio and that's just going to make him more dangerous He's going to be terrifying and he's going to have a lot to prove He's going to be very angry that Jake Paul wants to fight him Very upset that this youtuber who's fought Tommy Fury who's a legit boxer and you know a couple other guys that were legit boxers That's it like everyone else. He's fought. He's fought Ben Askren who was really a wrestler He fought Tyron Woodley, who was an elite MMA fighter, but not an elite boxer.

1:17:50He fought Nate Robinson, who was a basketball player. He fought Anderson Silva, and he dropped Anderson Silva, and Anderson Silva was a really good striker. But also in his 40s, different time. It's not the same guy he used to be. This is a 34-year-old Anthony Joshua. This is a terrifying human being. Terrifying. Again, a guy who survived Usyk twice. You know you saw what Usyk did to Dubois you see Usyk take out Dubois did you see that? I mean that's the Usyk you're talking about. There's an Usyk that rocked Tyson Fury who's fucking 6 '9". So Jake Paul's 6 '1". Yeah, this is 6 '6 Anthony Joshua.

1:18:29Jake weighed in for the Tyson fight at 199. Yeah, sure against Ngannou was 252. 6 '6". Just not just 6 '6", but 6 '6 and knows how to use every fucking inch of it. Knows how to keep that stick in your face. He'll keep that jab in his face. And that right hand, if it hits you, you're fucked. And he's not worried about you the way he's worried about Usyk. You can't move like Usyk. You can't constantly be frustrating and overloading his nervous system. Usyk is overloading every aspect of your senses at every moment. He's constantly moving. And then punches are coming. And he loops punches around your guard.

1:19:09And he's constantly shifting his feet. and you think he's going to be there and he's over here. And it's like this overload of thinking. It's not a casual, relaxed fight where you can kind of move around and get your groove and he's going to stay on the outside. No, it's just constant. He survived that guy twice. He survived, in my opinion, the most skillful heavyweight of all time. Twice. And you're going to go boxing? And the toughest guy you fought before was 40 years old Anderson Silva. That was the toughest guy so far you fought? You've lost to Tommy Fury who's a very good boxer, but this is a giant Olympic gold medalist heavyweight I mean, Anthony Joshua is fucking terrifying.

1:19:51He's the thing that nightmares are made of. And he's got that one punch nuclear power One punch and he's fast It's an explode like there's certain guys That like in kickboxing Couldn't translate over to MMA because they didn't have the kind of speed like Peter Ertz is a good example He was a world-class kickboxer, one of the best of all time, but didn't have the style that would allow him to – but then there was Mirko Krokop. Mirko Krokop, who was violently explosive, would perfectly transition to MMA because you've got to be able to hit people quick. It was like a big part of it is speed. Anthony Joshua has that kind of speed.

1:20:34With 252 pounds behind him. have the skill to get away from that kind of power what happens is francis and gato and anthony joshua you have to be a very you can't judge that guy based on dubois who's a fucking murderer daniel dubois a tank and he took out joshua but that guy's fucking terrifying you're staring in front of that guy but usik didn't stand in front of him usik moved all over the place joshua is and he's gonna have a lot to prove he's gonna be very angry do you think they'll let everybody take the brakes off because there's all rumors about Tyson versus Jake that both of them were sort of pulling punches and not fully letting it go.

1:21:11I think that's a different deal. You know, do you think there was something probably just below the table? I do not know. I do not know if it was said. I did not know if it was understood. I do not know. In your professional opinion, based on what you saw, do you think that the people were holding back? It definitely looked like sparring, but it could be that he didn't want to hurt Mike Tyson because Mike Tyson's 58 years old, or it could be that Mike Tyson didn't want to hurt him because he likes him. I don't fucking know. But it wasn't what I was tuning in for. It was not for me. I was there.

1:21:43I went to it live. I was tuning in for Mike Tyson coming full 1988 Mike Tyson, full chaos. That's what I was hoping for. We walked out like that. It looked like it, yeah. But that's what everybody signed up for. So they got us, whatever. And do you think that... This is different. I don't think this is that. I don't think this is that at all. First of all, it can't be that because Joshua is still competitive in the heavyweight division and he's only doing this for money. He's still set up for world title fights. After he knocked out Ngannou, you could still set him up like Joseph Parker just lost.

1:22:14You could set him up with Joseph Parker. You could have until a year ago, you could fight Deontay Wilder. You're saying that the lineage and the trajectory that Anthony Joshua is on, if he happens to go a little bit too gentle and lose by decision to Jake Paul, it doesn't exactly look great for his future heavyweight. It fucks up all of his marketing opportunities. So that's a really... So what we were saying before... The Ngannou fight is a godsend to him, right? The Ngannou fight is like, hey, boxing's back. This guy knocked down Tyson Fury. This is how it was supposed to go. Anthony Joshua, you carried the torch for the boxing community.

1:22:43Because I know a lot of straight-up boxers, and they absolutely felt that way. This is what needed to happen. These guys can't come over from MMA and think they can box the best. Yeah, you need to put them in their place. What's great there, and it loops back to what we were talking about before, is incentives, incentives, align the incentives. Yeah. Like if you've got Joshua's, I mean, this is... However, I should... Caveat. Yeah, here's the caveat. This might earn him$200 million. So if it earns him so much money... Joshua or Jake Paul? Joshua, like either one. How much money is involved? $200 million?

1:23:20Oh, dude, this is a Saudi organization, right? This is Riyadh season, isn't this? That was putting this on? Probably. They seem to own everything. I think they own me now. And you and Jamie and Carl. It's Netflix, right? Right, yeah. This is going to be on Netflix. Okay, so I don't know. Maybe it's not. Maybe Vriyad's season is not involved. But the money they threw Canelo Alvarez to get him to fight Terrence Crawford, they're throwing insane money at people. Infinity money. They're throwing nutty sums of cash at people to make amazing fights happen. This has always been the hiccup in boxing, is that people don't want to fight certain people because they want to protect their record.

1:23:55The Saudis are like, how much? Everybody's got a price. Yeah, everyone's got a price. We've got the bank account to pay it. So here it is. The reported total prize purse for Jake Paul versus Anthony Joshua is$184 million, with an even split expected, meaning each fighter will earn approximately$92 million. Some reports initially suggest a different figure. $184 is the most frequently cited total from sources like Daily Mail and Wikipedia. Okay, that doesn't mean anything. Some have also mentioned Jake Paul's cryptic$267 million tweet, which may have fueled rumors. Listen, it really depends on who's setting it up.

1:24:35Netflix doesn't have to tell you how much they're paying. But the thing about Anthony Joshua, if he loses this, so let's say he's only getting the$92 million, which I bet he's getting more. Let's say he's getting$92 million. If he loses this fight, he misses out on that Saudi money Because they could set up a Tyson Fury Anthony Joshua fight and each one of them gets 200 million dollars You can you could do a fight like that the Saudis can do a fight like that they can do a fight They have enough resources to throw at boxing where they could change the entire landscape of boxing If you are the guy that stands in between six foot six 250 pound Anthony Joshua and 200 million dollars I'm sorry.

1:25:18I'm sorry. I don't think he's going to lose to you on purpose. I don't want to be that guy. But I'm not saying that anybody lost to anybody on purpose. I don't think that's happened. But what I do think is that people take it easier on people if they like them, and it looked like they were taking it easier on each other than you'd expect. I'll just say that. It's just my personal opinion. I don't think that's going to happen with this fight. I don't think there's any chance in the world, knowing what Anthony Joshua is a specialist at, He's a specialist at putting knuckles through your fucking brain, you know And that's what he's gonna try to do to Jake Paul and anything other than that From a 34 year old Anthony Joshua will make us all think it's a fixed fight Whether or not Josh can do it whether or not I mean Jake Paul shocks the world and shows us that he really does not a box really well and moves really good and uses his jab and blows us all away with a strategy and a lot of footwork and movement and brings us into his camp and or Lomachenko's dad, even better, who's the guy who trained Usyk.

1:26:20He trained Usyk as well. Lomachenko's father. That's why they both are the best moving fighters in this generation by far. By far. They're in a group of the greatest of all time, like Willie Pep and Pernell Whitaker. There's like a group of defensive wizards that exist today. They're in that group. And two of them that exist in that group are trained by the same guy. Lomachenko and Usyk. I don't want to be Jake Paul. That's what I mean. Yeah, fuck that. I know that I do not want to be. But what better way to show the world you're legit? Go get knocked out by Olympic gold medalist, former world heavyweight champion, 6 '6", 250 pounds.

1:26:57Yeah. Show the world you're ready to win it. You're definitely not fucking about. I had this guy on my podcast, Bugsy Malone. He's a British grime artist. And he had this home. What's a grime artist? Like drill, rap. Oh, okay. Did you know what that means? You did? Damn. Keep up with the times. I can't. It's too late. I missed it. I missed everything. He grows up in the north of the UK in gangs, Manchester. And he's in juvenile detention. As a teenager, he gets stabbed with a screwdriver. Like, rough stuff. Rough northern stuff. But some part of his upbringing just sort of really compels him to try and bring himself out of this situation.

1:27:37Starts making music. Gets super successful. Does this fire in the booth with Charlie Sloth that gets like 35 million plays. and he starts boxing. Boxing is like one of his salvages. It's one of his safe havens and it's one of the things that's kept him very disciplined throughout his whole life. So he starts accumulating some money and he buys a nice house in Manchester, a very, very nice house and the local kids nearby sort of starting to take a little bit of notice. Maybe they know who he is as an artist and word starts to get around that he's living there. There'd been some concerns, some security concerns for a little while and he gets a phone call from his girlfriend at the time she says there's some men here they're trying to break in and they're in a van and he as she's on the phone he hears the glass shatter of this house his mum's in the house and his girlfriend at the time is in the house he's driving around he's got his sister in the car so he drives back in the car this is a guy who's like world famous as a rapper right this would be like it happening to like the british 50 cent or the british jay-z or p diddy or something like that drives back getting down the driveway toward this house there's a blockade there's boulders that have been laid out in front so he knows that there's going to be an ambush of some kind and he sees this guy in the bushes on the right with a brick.

1:28:47This guy's hiding in the bushes waiting and he thinks he's going to throw it through the window but he doesn't. He wants to hit him with the brick. So Bugsy stops the car, opens the door and immediately he's massively into Jordan Peterson, personal development, self-growth. It's like an odd blend of rough upbringing, self-discipline and sort of transcendent personal growth. And he gets out of the car and points at the guy and he goes, no way is that you. Is that a blue t-shirt? And the guy's like, what? and as he's doing it because he's been training so much he's coming toward him distracting him the same way as i go what's in that t-shirt there immediately you go and before he knew it bugsy's hit him spun him around bricks fallen out of his hand because this guy hasn't set his feet in time it's a problem of having a big weapon bugsy said like you need to set yourself and you need to be able to throw it like it's good because it can hurt someone but it's slow and it's cumbersome and you can't move as fast and he's training every day every single day no matter whether he's rapping he's on tour he's training and he's boxing and he's fighting and he's sharp he knows his distance hits this guy they have a scrap bugsy wins moves the stuff out of the way gets back in the car drives in jamie can you just cctv search uh search bugsy malone cctv so there's footage from his house of when he pulls up in the mercedes and um so go back back back a little bit yeah just to the start so this is him pulling in in his car having just beaten someone up this is a van filled with guys gets out of the car pulls his top off and then sprints to go and get the rest of the guys that are waiting outside that is not the behavior of a dude who gives a single fuck this is the british jay-z ripping his top off and then sprinting out to try and chase people away and the real kicker of it there was like tons of guys not in that van but in some other van behind the real kicker was the dudes that he fought they pressed charges they pressed charges against him because he's rich they pressed charges because he fucked him up and then at at oh they pressed charges they pressed charges did they actually wind up going to court over this yeah yeah yeah no yep went to court and this is it was so brilliant he told this story to me and he said uh it was the middle of covid and people weren't sure whether venues were going to be open and he had this tour this tour was going on but it It wasn't selling as well.

1:31:09No tours were selling as well as he would have liked. So he spoke to his lawyer before his lawyer went to go and do the not guilty verdict. And they had two statements that were ready. And he came out. He said, very pleased to say that Aaron Davies has been acquitted today. He's not been found guilty. He is now getting back to preparing for his upcoming tour. And tickets are available now.

1:31:35His lawyer did a mid-roll ad read. For his tour, as part of his not guilty verdict, having just beaten up a van filled with blokes, one of whom looked like a plumber. It was your plumber comment that got me thinking about it. Just some white belt, some guy that thinks he's a bit hard. He's had a little bit of a throw around, and this guy's training every single day, sharpening his skills, and he's been doing it since he was a kid. That's hilarious. And he's dangerous, and he's nasty. It's wonderful when a story like that works out. In America, people have guns. It's a different sport. Have you looked at appropriate force in the UK?

1:32:07Do you know what that is? The use of appropriate force? There's a lot of that in America as well. Okay. Depending state by state. They have different standards that different states impose. Like Florida has to stay on your ground. Florida, you just get away with killing people. California, it's very different. They were actually trying to pass a thing in California saying it's your obligation to leave your house if someone breaks into it. I don't know if that got through. it's your obligation to not shoot them um that you can't you can't harm them because they're just trying to steal something that they're not trying to harm you like the assumption should be that they're not trying to harm you exactly it's i've had this conversation with people on the podcast but actually with tommy chong it was a mind-numbing conversation that you know you should not think of this person as trying to attack you that their life is not less valuable than yours is just as valuable as your life.

1:33:03You shouldn't take their life. Despite the fact that they're on your property. Despite the fact that, I can't talk, despite the fact rather that historically a lot of people have broken into people's houses and killed them. It's happened over and over and over again. You're just assuming that this time is going to be different because they just want your watch or whatever. Like, fuck off. Like, that's a dumb way to live. Like, you have to be able to protect yourself. There's crazy people. That's a real thing. Yeah, I think the appropriate force thing becomes interesting in the UK where you don't have as many guns because there's more levels of weapon in between nothing, just hands.

1:33:38Baseball bat and samurai sword. Yeah, this guy's got a brick, so you're allowed to brick. But if you bring a gun to a knife fight, that's not appropriate force. Oh. You know what I mean? He only had a knife. Yes. You cheated. Yeah. Oh, God. I don't know. It's very gentlemanly. Oh, God. So stupid. Well, the UK's got some odd archaic laws. Like the distance between the front benches in the House of Commons is the same as two broadswords held out at arm's length. Which is just so funny. Well, that's also why you guys drive on the other side of the road, right? Why? I think you drive on the left side of the road so you can use your right arm to slash each other.

1:34:19No way. With a sword. Yeah, I believe that's what it is. What, in case you were jousting in a vehicle? Someone, if you're on a horse or if you're in a car, You want to be able to get them on that side. That's the strong side. Someone told me that when I was over there. I hope I'm not incorrect. I like it as a story. Whether it's right or wrong, I don't care. There's a reason that women's shirts button from the left and not the right. Have you ever accidentally put your wife's hoodie on instead? It goes in the middle ages. You knew you were going to meet when traveling on horseback. Most people are right-handed.

1:34:50So if a stranger passed to the right of you, your right hand would be free to use your sword if required. Yeah, that's why you guys do it with your cars. Well, this is the problem. If you don't have a medieval country like ours, you end up driving on the other side of the road. But yeah, so women's shirts, if you've ever accidentally put your wife's hoodie on or something, zipped it up, women's shirts button from the other side. They button from the left, not the right. The reason for that is that when buttons were first introduced in the 1700s, they were mostly for the aristocracy and the aristocratic women were dressed by mostly right-handed servants.

1:35:24Whoa So they dressed them this way So the women's shirts Still to this day? Same thing, dude, I promise you now Anybody that's watching, any guy that's watching Go and put your wife's shirt on, this is how it begins Go and put your wife's shirt on and see It doesn't fold that way, it folds the other way And you have to push the buttons through With your left hand How fucking cool is that? That's crazy And it's the same with hoodies, you know, we zip our hoodies with our right hand Girls zip their hoodies with their left hand Oh, wow Wow. So fucking cool. Weird. One other element is the gentleman of the days, they would have a sword on the left hip drawn by the right hand.

1:36:04The way that our shirts are put together at the moment, it can't get caught in the folds because the left fold is over the top of the right. So as you draw it, there's no chance that the hilt would get caught. So if you're a left-handed person, you have to wear women's clothes. That might actually explain more than you think. Probably. uh this so this is an example of path dependency so what you're talking about like some shit from the past that influences the future uh qwerty keyboards right same thing yeah i know that one typewriters yeah so it was made to be inefficient to slow people down and if you take a normal typer from a qwerty keyboard and put them on some other formulation that's allowed they're like 50 to 70 % faster.

1:36:46So we're still using a designed to be inefficient keyboard because if you type too quickly on a typewriter and you use letters that are close together, the typewriter jams so the letters that were used most frequently were put out onto the edges and it was less often that you were going to put two next to each other so they wouldn't jam. I don't know a single person who switched to a different type of keyboard. Do you? No. No one. Lex Friedman's got some weird super nerds. Oh, but his This is just separated. He's just got to separate it. It's still QWERTY. Is it like this? Yeah. Oh. It's almost like a...

1:37:19Yeah, that's kind of interesting, but that's not the point. The point is the layout of the keys in a regular keyboard. There's other layouts. So it's not just QWERTY. It's not available. You can actually buy keyboards that have the most efficient layout. I forget what the name of it is. I think it might be the Dactyl thing. Yes. Hot Swap Dactyl. I think that's it. The very top. I think that's it. Up and right. Yeah. Hot Swap Dactyl. Maybe. That's just for sale, though. It's still a QWERTY keyboard. It's still QWERTY. I can't get away from it. So there's... Other layouts. If you could search what styles of key...

1:37:54What is the most efficient layout of keys for typing speed? That's what I do. Yeah. That's what I ask. What's coming up? This shit is way faster than typing. Okay. Yeah, right, right, right. But that's a different thing. That's fastest keyboard for typing. Well, you can type. Let's look at that for so you haven't seen this before no yeah It's like how's it what they I'll show you a demo Wow This is crazy and each one of those is a letter and some of them you like make words real fast

1:38:34This so this is a we're talking about right here is a totally different device than a keyboard but what I mean is like there's another keyboard layout that super nerds use like a tiny amount like the kind of people that have like they have those google phones that don't connect to the servers you know Eric Prince make those no it's a different one he's got his own yeah I uh just that path dependency thing like shit from the past that's still influencing us now yeah why your shirt is going in the other direction that's pretty crazy okay so here it is is a new class of peripheral device that allows ordinary people to type at the speed of thought whoa everything your keyboard can and much more whether you're coding gaming designing or just typing whatever you do at the speed of thought hmm i wonder how much of a learning curve there is to figuring out how to type with that thing because it looks pretty dope.

1:39:36Ooh, they have different ones? Scroll up to that image at the top. That's a different one. I think it's the same. It's just... But shape different. Yeah, just like made out of metal. Right, but it's a different shape. You probably put your hand... Well, maybe put your hands on it the same way. It's very different. The other one was curved. The problem that you have is... Is this the new one? The forge, the master forge. Let me see what you got here. It's not showing anybody to use it. That's how I was trying to find a good way I'm using it to show you how they type words really fast. I think it's a matter of time before you're typing with your brain anyway.

1:40:07I think this is like learning to code. Yeah, well, I think about this with prompt engineering. Like if AI gets progressively better and better, the idea of being a prompt engineer, I understand how to get the AI to do what I want, is a job that only shortly after it becomes a job might be made completely obsolete. 100%. Yeah. Yeah, that's not going to work. That's like opening up a Blockbuster video in 1999. It's like, you don't have so little time. Well, the problem that you have with the quality keyboard thing is it's a coordination problem. Like if you want to borrow your friend's laptop, unless everybody decides, we're going to switch to the better type of keyboard and we're going to do it now.

1:40:48There you go. Here he goes. He's moving it. He's typing it right there. He's typing these words as he's looking at the screen. Holy shit. How's he doing that? That guy's a fucking genius. It's up to like 300 words a minute I think people can get to. but here's the question like how do you learn do you have to play a game do you ever do that like Mavis Bacon's typing do that no what was that it's fun it's a game you play it teaches you how to type teaches you how to type yeah yeah you like type things that they tell you to type they time you like a race it's like fun so he's like hitting all these letters at once I think with his fingers you can see them popping up and then it creates the word I think it's a little bit of a mixture of like do you remember the T9 typing you could do on your phone Yeah.

1:41:29And you could hit four numbers and you'd know what word it would be. And if it wasn't that word, you'd hit next like three times. You could get really good at that. I think it's a little, I think it's a mixture. Like predictive. Could you rewind that again so I could see him doing that? Can you give me some volume so I could hear what he's saying? There's no question that typing sentences at over 200 words per minute is extremely satisfying. But does typing fast actually transfer to productivity in the real world? That's the question we'll be answering together in today's video. Does typing speed really matter?

1:42:02That's nuts. Wow. He just did that. Wow. And he made BUTT large. Yeah. Like he made it all caps. I suppose this is kind of... I need to know if that dude's Rain Man. You know what I'm saying? I need to ask him some questions about math. Yeah. Yeah, it's mad to think how quickly we can think and how slowly we can communicate that to other people, even with speech. Can you just please search, is there a more efficient key layout than QWERTY? Because that's what I'm looking for. Because I know there is. Because I remember I went down a rabbit hole with this and I was really thinking about trying it.

1:42:41And then I was like, God, what are you doing? You'd have to change your phone. Yeah, and it wasn't phone days. This was way before phone days. This was the days of just typing more efficient keyboard layout than QWERTY. That's it. Dvorak. That's it. Puts about 65 to 70 cent of keystrokes in the home row versus roughly 30 on QWERTY. So fingers move much less. So now that we know that, can you search for images of Dvorak keyboard? So that's what the keys look like right there. Oh, that's it right there. See how different that is? Wow. Yeah, very different. How long do you reckon it would take you to write out a short email?

1:43:21It would take forever. My stupid fingers would go right back to where they always go. You know, that was one of the things that I learned really early on from teaching martial arts. I would way rather teach someone who didn't know anything than teach someone who learned things wrong. Because someone who learned things wrong, it's very difficult to correct their technique. They have a mode in their mind that they shift to when they're panicky or when they're being pressured. They always go back to the bad technique, always. It's very hard to get someone to learn technique correctly when they know it incorrectly.

1:43:57You've got to reteach them everything. You see it with pool. There's certain tendencies that people have with their arm being out that a lot of people just accept the bad relationship between your elbow as long as it's consistent. Even though it's more inefficient, it's going to add extra English to the ball and spin and all these different things and probably make you less accurate. Maybe better that than try to make your arm drop down and hang 90 % because it'll feel so alien. But that's way less than in martial arts. In martial arts, like, God, if you learn how to throw a sidekick with your knee down versus your knee up, it's so hard to do it the other way.

1:44:36When you're being pressured you're always gonna do it the wrong way and you're not gonna have them up them up the correct amount of power and Those tendencies that are burned into you I've been typing for 30 fucking years like they are I don't have to look at a keyboard I can just talk to you and I can type and I'm not really good, but I'm good enough You know I'm I don't look at the keys like I don't have to pick like I used to go just drive me crazy Watching videos of Hunter Thompson who never learned how to type he would type like this he would type with like one finger at a time poke and peck i'm like dude it would take so little time for you to just put your fucking fingers there and learn how to do that right he never did he poked and pecked his way to some of the greatest fucking books ever maybe that was a performance enhancer but yeah i uh well he was poking and pecking when he was on coke that's true yeah it's probably for the best that you didn't type more quickly imagine the crazy shit that would have come out of him now right right yeah you ever seen him type it's so frustrating no Can we see?

1:45:34Is it videos? Yeah. Oh, wow. Find Hunter Thompson typing. Yeah, you'll see it. It's pokey-pecky. And Johnny Depp actually mimicked it really accurately in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. He's sitting in front of the thing, like, pecking. Yeah, like, doing his Hunter Thompson impression. Doing his Jack Sparrow thing. Pecking and poking. Yeah. Well, your brain can think at about 4 ,000 words a minute. and that's the same rate of fire as an M134 machine gun. Wow. So anything, even, and it's your point of, very soon I think that keyboards are going to be obsolete. When you think about how much fucking fidelity and speed is lost with you going from brain to thumb, like I wonder what another type of keyboard is and you've got to think, okay, how do I convert this into words?

1:46:25Where am I going to go? Open the app, type the, oh, crap, man, fucking keyboard, keyboard but it is so slow compared with when we just get neural linked up to each other I'm sure you've seen that demonstration where the two guys are sitting across from each other and they have the headsets on, they're asking each other a question and answering the questions without using words No, I've not seen that We'll show you that next What were we just looking up now? I find pictures of him typing but not video of him typing Oh god, I don't see that Let me get to the bathroom We'll be right back ladies and gentlemen and it's time to pee.

1:46:59Where were we? Somebody typing like a grandma. Yeah, the Hunter Thompson thing. He couldn't really find it. You got Johnny Depp doing it? Okay, this is how he typed. This is completely accurate. This is a great video, by the way. You should listen to this. It's an amazing piece. You got to cut it out? It never comes again. I'm going to go to YouTube. Okay, we'll cut it out. But that's it. That's how he poked. He poked and pecked like that. So that's how Hunter Thompson used to type. out of his fucking bird just poking telepathic video too oh you found that okay okay this is the crazy one the telepathic thing is nuts because they have these headsets on these guys are laughing because they're asking each other questions and they're answering the questions and they hear the answer in their heads they they hear the other person hears the question and then they hear the answer so it's a new i think i don't know if it's a product or what but it's called alter ego this is the same guy who developed that device where he could uh look things up without opening his mouth or talking and just sort of like mimicking the words in his we all have moments when inspiration i'm sort of doing the same thing i'll sort of skip past it so he's talking he's showing it on his own here the cool part is when he brings in someone else to talk to and this guy also has it so they're communicating where do you want to get lunch after this he's saying where do you want to lunch after this.

1:48:24Yeah, for the demo, they hooked it up to audio so that the video could hear it. Typhoon could be good. So they're laughing because their words are being... It could be a noisy environment... So would they hear this? It could be a noisy environment or a quiet office. Having a direct conversation is possible without saying a word. The signals Alter Ego detects aren't affected by environmental noise. So even if you're walking past a wind tunnel or a construction zone, what you want to say will always get across. It's like having infinite noise cancellation. Exactly what people say happens when they encounter aliens.

1:49:05It's exactly, exactly. Someone's talking in your head and you hear it. So imagine this technology scaled out a thousand years and they probably don't need the other person to have a headset anymore. And they just would make for an interesting podcast. yeah I guess and you could just tune in and nobody needs to actually listen to anything so where's the sound are they hearing the sound in a set of headphones no they know it right they're not hearing it I understand how I don't understand because if it was really loud then you wouldn't be able to hear it for the demo we just watched they have up to a speaker so we can hear what they're hearing but I think if anything it's gotta be some sort of jaw induction, but I don't know that for sure.

1:49:54Well, there's weird earphones that you could put on that don't go in your ear. They go behind your ear, and they send the sound into your dome. People use that for running, right? So they can still hear the sound that's going around. Fucking creeps hiding in the bushes. They can hear the creeps so they can get ready for them. You know Cam Haynes, right? My buddy Cam? His brother almost got killed by a mountain lion. Crazy story. He put it on his Instagram. um the day the next day like he talked about the story what happened he was running and there was a mountain lion in the bushes and at first he thought it was a coyote he just saw the eyes he yelled and then stood up and he realized it was a cat and it started running after him and he's running at night as in california and he kicked rocks at it he screamed at it and uh ultimately there's some dogs barking and he thinks maybe the dogs barking scared the mountain lion off him But he said it was like I couldn't have used his quote.

1:50:48So I couldn't have used bear spray even if I had it because it would have got on me That's how close it was So it was right there like right on him. So it's the most scary has ever been in his life I've seen that video of the guy tracking backward. Oh, yeah as it's coming toward it Yeah, hey, the only thing that gives me comfort about that video if I was there is like that thing just wants to scare me It's not trying to kill me. It wants to scare me That's a mother that's trying to get you away from the cubs because the way it's doing it, it's throwing its arms in the air in a very intimidating way.

1:51:18If an animal is trying to kill you, it wouldn't do that. It'd be running full clip at you and just dive on your neck. That's the difference between a cat that wants to kill you and something that's trying to scare you off. So the problem is you're backing up, right? And the instincts of these predators, like if you throw a ball of yarn by a kitten, they dive on that ball of yarn. They can't help themselves. And that's the thing about you backing up or even you running. It's like you're exciting their prey drive. Yeah, they're going to keep tracking. Right. So they tell you to stand tall and be loud and make a lot of noise.

1:51:51But there's a fine line between you being a threat and them being scared off, like you being something they have to deal with, depending upon the distance between each other. Oh, that makes so much sense. Yeah. Have you ever had any run-ins? I have never had an encounter like that, But I did in the wild see an enormous mountain lion once. But fortunately, it was from inside of a truck. Yeah. Me and my friend Colton, we were in Utah. We were taking this turn, and it was at dusk. So the sun was setting, and he stops the truck, and he goes, look at that cat. And I go, where? And we'll look over, and I see the glowing eyes from the setting sun.

1:52:32The glowing eyes are reflecting underneath this tree, and it's got this pumpkin head, This big fucking, these mandible muscles that just crush things and these massive forearms. And it's just sitting, it's a big cat, man. Like I've seen two other mountain lions before, but they were small. They were like a dog sized. This thing was fucking big. Do you reckon you'd be able to take a dog sized mountain lion or are you still dead? No, you're dead. Yeah. I mean, a cat sized cat might fuck you up. A house cat might fuck you up. A bobcat might fuck you up. A mountain lion will kill you. You know, you'd have to be an extraordinary person with weapons to survive a mountain lion hand-to-hand fight.

1:53:14You'd have to be an extraordinary person who's really fighting to survive. And you don't panic at all. You have to be willing to stay calm. This thing's going to tear your arms apart. It might tear your face apart. What are the basic—I mean, you hunt all the time. And you do—was it like end of September? You went and did another big one last year. Yeah, elk hunting. you must have been given whatever the safety briefing that you have at the start of an aircraft taking off is of hey man if you see a this if you see a this or if you see a this these are the ways that you're supposed to behave no we don't get any safety briefings but you must have learned it in the past yeah as a part of safety briefing carry a gun bring a gun with you point at a big scary thing even if you're bow hunting carry a pistol especially if you're in bear country.

1:53:58If you're in bear country, you can't depend on this mist making their eyes hurt, keeping them off of you, because it might not work. I'll just run through it. Yeah. There was a recent case in BC where a bear mauled 11 people, and they used bear spray on it. It didn't work. I think it was a teacher protecting his students. So shout out to that teacher he got fucked up um but they tried bear spray bear spray is not effective my friend john who lives up in alberta he used bear spray on a grizzly once he said it walked right through it like it was nothing is best spray basically like hardcore pepper spray yeah it's like vicious pepper spray but you're just gonna get a mad bear you know why don't they make more hardcore bear spray then it's as hardcore as it gets without killing you right you know if it gets on you if it's that noxious yeah it's just supposed to be a deterrent and sometimes it can work like sometimes maybe they're just curious and you spray them and they're like, fuck this guy, and they get out of there.

1:54:56But maybe sometimes no, you know, because it's like tasing a guy. You ever see a guy get tased and they just fucking run through it? There's guys who get tased and they just go stiff and they fall down. And I've seen other guys get tased where they rip it right out of their arm. Four people, including children, were hospitalized. A teacher on crutches, second adult with bear spray, and a third person who punched and kicked a grizzly despite serious injuries are being praised for their actions, saved a school group attacked by a bear near Bella Coola, British Columbia. Four people, including the children, were hospitalized Thursday after a bear attack on students and teachers in the Nux Walk First Nation while out on a school trip near the – boy, I'm going to fuck this up – Akwalkta School east of the remote community.

1:55:50Oh, so it was a very remote place. Yeah. Bear spray didn't do anything, man. It said, look, nothing phased it, didn't do anything to the bear. Two cans of spray in the eyes of the animal. Look at that. This said the teacher unloaded two cans of bear spray into the eyes of the animal, and it didn't do anything. It blows my mind that people who have been through something that scary. When the kids were getting attacked, one of my cousins who had his skull ripped ran towards the bear and jumped on it with his bare hands. Holy shit. It's pretty hardcore. That's hard. Well, that's primal life. That's survival in a real situation where your language goes away.

1:56:30Another lady, a teacher with crutches, was whacking it, hitting it in the eyes, the face, the head for minutes, and then the bear finally. Imagine being on crutches. Oh, my God. Well, it's just survival. It's so reptilian. It's like a savage, savage moment. That's what blows my mind about these situations where emotions are running so high, how people are able to come back with any kind of memory at all. Right. Because that amount of adrenaline just completely warps people's memories. I was learning about this case from Australia in the 70s. This lady gets attacked inside of her home. So a guy breaks into the house and assaults her inside of her home.

1:57:18and she identifies this TV psychologist, this guy called Donald Thompson, says this was the person who assaulted me. The TV psychologist? TV psychologist, yeah, yeah, yeah. So she knew this guy from the TV. He was the guy that assaulted me. That night, the police go and they arrest Donald Thompson, take him in. The next day, there's a lineup, and the woman positively identifies him, and Donald Thompson's like, that couldn't have been me because I was actually on television in front of a live audience at the time, And the arresting officer like scoffs at him and basically says, you might as well have Jesus and the Queen of England as your alibis as well.

1:57:56Like, this is ridiculous. We know that she's been assaulted. We've got photographic evidence of the marks on her. We've done a DNA test, which is going to come back soon. She's positively identified you from the lineup and she called you out before you were in the lineup as well. Like you're bang to rights. But there was a wrinkle that when they actually looked at the timing, he was on TV at the time that this was happening. And what had occurred was the woman had had that television program on while the attacker broke in and sexually assaulted her. Whoa. And it imprinted that guy's face in her memory.

1:58:33Bingo. Wow. Wow. Blended the attacker's identity with what she was seeing on TV while it happened. Wow. And the kicker, Donald Thompson was on TV to discuss an area of psychological speciality that he had, which was the unreliability of eyewitness testimony. Whoa. Dude. Whoa.

1:59:30Did you see that The push. Was it the push? I don't remember, but I watched a clip of it the other day. I'm like, this is so crazy that you can actually do this to someone. And the point of the article that I was reading on, or the post on X, was you're telling me that MKUltra has not figured out a way to do this? You can get a guy to do it with cameras, to do it on Stephen Fry, the comedian? And obviously, he didn't really kill him. I had a Yeah, here it is So the assassin with Stephen Fry So he somehow or another Gets this guy to do it I guess we can't play it But The point is Fake gun I don't remember what he did Oh shit, they acted it all out too That is so crazy That's so crazy So that guy really thought he killed Stephen Fry.

2:00:30Imagine being in the crowd. How about those people next to him who didn't even flinch? I'd be like, what kind of psychos am I next to? She's the one whispering to watch. She whispers. She's like, good job. I think she's the one who set him off. Oh. She's in on it. Now, here's the question. Is this, can anybody? She took the gun. Yeah. Can anybody fall into that kind of a hypnosis? Is that only certain people that are suggestible? There's high, medium, and low suggestibility people. And there's a couple of tests. Dr. David Spiegel from Stanford, he's like one of the world leaders in hypnosis. And he explained some people are more susceptible to hypnosis than others.

2:01:12I have to assume that Darren will have done a profile and this guy is like really, really susceptible. Okay, what's that about? Why is that around? Susceptibility to hypnosis? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think that dopamine plays a big part of it. And if you process dopamine more quickly, you are more susceptible. I process dopamine really slowly. I know that from doing some genetic tests. So I know that my susceptibility to hypnosis would be lower. There's some personality traits that make you more or less likely as well. I think agreeableness versus disagreeableness is one of them. I think there'll be a sex difference too.

2:01:47I don't know why it's there. It's kind of the same as saying, like, why are some people taller than others? It's like they just are, and there's like a byproduct that comes along for the ride. But it's a weird thing to be able to manipulate a person's mind and to have it so clearly. I mean, this is the clearest example of it you're ever going to see. He just shot a famous person in a room full of people. It does feel like a weird backdoor. Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. It's like those voting systems that can be hacked. Well, I'm not speaking about that. Or like those cell phone towers they buy from China that turned out to be translated.

2:02:26Just sending everything back to China. I think... Why does that exist? That David Spiegel guy taught me that 25 % of people that do a single session intervention for smoking cessation quit for life. From hypnosis? One session, 25%. Get this. And I think if you do a couple of sessions, that number starts to go up and go up. So hypnosis is this really weird backdoor into the human psyche. But yeah, the memory thing is fucking crazy when you think about what do I actually know? Like how do I know that this thing happened in the past? So most people understand there's like two types of memory failure.

2:03:05One is I can't remember that thing. And the other is I remember it, but I remember it incorrectly. That's broadly two categories. And I think people are really happy with the first one because there's tons of shit that has happened to you. And you go, yeah, I forget my memory or whatever, whatever. But your experience of your own memory is your only experience of your own memory. So for you to be able to say my recollection is wrong, what does that mean? That's like saying this dimension that I'm in is wrong. So a lot of the time I think people struggle to understand how often their memory of a thing is present but inaccurate.

2:03:37So, for instance, there's only 17 colors that we remember on average. We don't remember. Like if I ask you what colors are tomato. Well, I would say red, but really it's not. If it's heirloom. Typically red, but it's like a reddy-orange sort of color. Sure, but those are the bullshit tomatoes, like a real heirloom tomato. I didn't need to get into tomato politics. That's a real tomato, though. That's what a tomato really looks like. Sorry. Supermarket tomato, kind of reddish-orange. Reddish-orange-ish, but most people would default to the red thing. Right, but not really. Yeah, but it's not, and we adjust.

2:04:13Right. So if you're the guy. Like we're white people. Uh-huh. But we're not really white. Well, I mean, you're a bit flush. Yeah, but we're not white. You know what I'm saying? Comparatively white. My friend Jamie, not this one, but another one. He's from England, and he's white like paper. And when my daughter first met him, that's what she said, she goes, Mommy, he's so white. And she goes, Yeah, he's white. And she goes, No, no, he's white like paper. Well, if you live in England, you will be referred to as white like paper. yeah if you've got i mean this must be the same with fighters even if you forget the tbi head trauma-y stuff just the dump of adrenaline from going through i mean you must have done this when you've done your biggest shows and you go out you don't remember much you come back and you're like i've worked my whole life to get to the stage where i can achieve this thing and in the achievement of this thing i kind of wasn't really that well i was there for it but in retrospect i can't really recall where I was.

2:05:13And it's this odd duality that you want to be in a flow state. Yeah. Because it's very fulfilling. It's where you're at your best. This word's just coming out of you perfectly. And when you look back, you're like, I don't know if I was there fully. I feel like I was kind of absent. Well, it's not that you're absent, but that you're empty. You empty out all your expectations and you're on it for the ride. You're not really piloting it as much as you're just like making sure it doesn't hit the rocks. You're on, you're there for the ride. The thing takes over. And I think that's the case with everything.

2:05:50That's the case when you're in the flow state of anything you're doing, when you're really like you're the more you think about you being there, which is what you have to do. If you're there, you're thinking about you. So it's like wasted resources. You're better off being empty and just like being a vessel and just like taking this thing. Like you've done the work already, like take it along for the ride. just go go for the ride that's what it is and so the problem with that is if you don't record your set sometimes you'll say things that you don't remember like they were really funny and you're like oh there's i had a totally different point that i went off and it really worked but i don't remember what it was if you don't record it you're fucked the only way you can get it back is you have to get back to that exact spot and hope it's still there for the next show sometimes it will be sometimes it will be it's waiting for you yeah yeah sometimes that angle pops up again you're like, oh yeah, but why are we doing this?

2:06:44Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're like, oh, I almost forgot it. That must be a nightmare or must have been a nightmare before you could record sets. Yeah, but you've always been able to record sets. That's one of the things I learned really early on from this guy, Mike Donovan, who was one of the big comics in Boston. He goes, always record your sets because you never know when you're going to say something. And it'll be lost forever if you don't have a recording. There was a Scotty Scheffler, a golfer. He won. Jamie, you'll have seen this video. I've won golfer. Yeah, can we get the, there's a New York sports video cut.

2:07:16He does this. It's such a fucking cool explanation of what somebody who's got to the peak of their sport, the absolute pinnacle, like in the moments of winning. And he just breaks the fourth wall open about kind of the hollowness of what this is. Really? Yeah, it's really fascinating. What's the point, that thing? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah and um it's just it's just such a great explainer because we always assume here we go you might have just won the us open here too by the way it's like the biggest event of the year life it's it's fulfilling from the sense of accomplishment but it's not fulfilling from a sense of like the deepest you know places of your heart you know i think it's kind of funny i think you know i i think i said something after the byron this year about like it feels like you work your whole life to celebrate winning a tournament for like a few minutes.

2:08:13It only lasts a few minutes, that kind of euphoric feeling. And like to win the Byron Nelson championship at home, I literally worked my entire life to become good at golf, to have an opportunity to win that tournament. And you win it, you celebrate, get to hug my family, my sisters there. It's such an amazing moment. And then it's like, okay, now what are we going to eat for dinner? You know, life goes on. this is it great to be able to win tournaments and to accomplish the things i have in the game of golf yet i mean it it brings tears to my eyes just to think about because it's literally worked my entire life to become good at the sport and to have that kind of sense of accomplishment i think is is a pretty cool feeling you know to get to live out your dreams is very special but at the end of the day it's like i'm not out here to inspire the next generation of golfers i don't i'm not here to inspire somebody else to be the best player in the world because what's the point you know this is not a fulfilling life it's it's fulfilling from a sense of accomplishment but it's not fulfilling from a sense of like the deepest you know places of your heart you know there's a lot of people that make it to what they thought was going to fulfill them in life and then you get there and all of a sudden you get to number one in the world and they're like what's the point and you know I really do believe that because you know what is the point you're like why do I want to win this tournament so bad that's something that I wrestle with on a daily basis.

2:09:33It's like showing up at the Masters every year. It's like, why do I want to win this golf tournament so badly? Why do I want to win the Open Championship so badly? I don't know. Because if I win, it's going to be awesome for about two minutes. And then we're going to get to the next week and it's going to be like, hey, you won two majors this year. How important is it for you to win the FedEx Cup playoffs? It's just like, we're back here again, you know? So we really do. We work so hard for such little moments. And, you know, I'm kind of a sicko i love putting in the work i love being able to practice i love getting out to live out my dreams but at the end of the day sometimes i just don't understand the point this that's honest that's what that is that's why that video that's why he's so good i love that guarantee you that's why he's so good because i guarantee you that guy has to be that honest with himself about everything otherwise you'd never fix the hitch in your swing you know you you have to be honest about every single thing you have to be you have to be aware of all of it every little weird fucking thing you do why am i doing this like what is the point of this and then when you're done like yeah i did it and then it's gonna creep right back in creep right back in nike did a back to work a commercial after that and uh it's him with his son sort of kneeling down on the uh the green and it says uh you've already won and then i think the next slide is but let's get another one and it's so fucking cool dude there it is you've already won but another another major never hurt that was a bro yeah fucking unbelievable so i think i kind of become obsessed with um people sacrificing what they want which is happiness for the thing that's supposed to get it which is success so they sacrifice the thing that they want being happy in the moment they make themselves miserable in order to be able to achieve a thing so that when they finally have sufficient success, they will allow themselves to be happy.

2:11:27It's like a very strange trade. Imagine if you had some simultaneous equation and you just crossed off success from both sides, you would sort of be left with happiness. I think that's unrealistic, right? Because we need social validation from people and we want to be recognized. We want to do stuff and we've got to put food on the table and social creatures and all the rest of it. But I think videos like that are really important for people to see when they look up to someone about how much there is there at the end of the rainbow like uh elon was on lex's show a couple of years ago and i think lex asked him some question like how are you doing he replied and he said people think they want to be me they do not want to be me they don't know they don't understand my mind is a storm i'm like that's the price you need to pay to be elon musk i think that was on this podcast was it this one Yeah, because I ask him, like, what is it like to be you?

2:12:20He's like, you wouldn't want to do it. You wouldn't want to be me. And you could tell, like, when you're in his eyes. Like, it's not a normal thought process. It's like this chaotic tornado of ideas that's running around in his head. You know, and sometimes he spits them out on Twitter and they're not good. Well, it's a problem when you're on the platform, right? It's kind of like, I can say what I want. It's my own house. Well, he can, though. But he's like that all the time. He's fun. He's like what I would want to see from a guy who's a super genius, like a playful guy who wants to go to Mars, who's making – Jamie and I went on a tour of Starship, Starbase.

2:13:00What is it? SpaceX, Starbase, whatever the fuck it is. We saw the launch. We went to the SpaceX launch. And so we got a tour of the rocket factory, which is fucking insane. It's so much more insane than I thought I was going to be. it's i mean i can't really i don't know how much we could even say but it is nuts it's nuts and the sheer quantity of rockets that they're making is mind-blowing like you're like i had no i thought they had a couple rockets you know just a couple rockets laying around they're just making rockets i'm pretty sure they've put more stuff into space just that one company than like the entirety of the load that's being transported into space globally up until now they put stuff in space for their competitors.

2:13:46Yeah, they use their space rockets to put stuff in space for people that they're in competition with. Yeah, they take the money. Show me the color of your money. Yeah, we know how to do it. We're better at it than you, so we'll do it. Fucking unbelievable, dude. It's kind of nuts. I think about that, like the sort of person you need to be to drive that, though. It's a different kind of person, right? Like, that's what he wants to do, and that's what he desires to do. And, you know, this gentleman talking about golf, Like this is a different – that's a totally different thing because he's in a competition all the time.

2:14:19And it's really hard to just enjoy the process when you're in this competition where especially if your livelihood depends upon a very specific result. Like you have to be better at this thing than everybody else. Not just do the best yourself but better than the other people that are also doing their best. So you're in this constant just never escaping this pressure. Fighters feel that I think more than anybody because it's like an actual physical person coming to harm you all the time. And you're very outcome focused. Yeah. And so it's all well and good him saying, I love the process. I'm a bit of a sicko.

2:14:56I like my training, so on and so forth. But it's very different saying I enjoy the process of training when you've just won than I enjoy the process of training when you've just come second or fifth or 20th. Right. And especially if you're laid out flat on the canvas. Yeah, especially that. If that's the humiliation. There's also the damage that was just done to you where you might not, really might not be the same again. And there's certain fighters that you could point to one fight and they never recovered from it. Meldrick Taylor versus Julio Cesar Chavez is my personal one that I always point to.

2:15:30Because Julio Cesar Chavez knocked him out with like, I think it was like a couple seconds left in the last round. Stopped him. And it was a fight that Meldrick Taylor was winning a decision. But Julio Cesar Chavez was wearing him down. He was one of the greatest of all time, just ripping the body, constantly attacking him. And eventually broke him down, had him in a corner, boom, dropped him with a right hand. And he got up, and the referee called the fight with, like, a couple of seconds to go. And it was a hugely controversial call. But then when Meldrick Taylor returned, he was never the same again.

2:15:59He started slurring his words really badly. So it's a physical issue, you think? He's getting knocked out easily. He's getting dropped easily. It was gone. It was all gone. That fight just took it all out of them. You see that. So there's that too. It's not just you're going to lose a golf tournament. Like you might get your brains punched in. Physical repercussions. Huge physical repercussions. For a vicious knockout, huge. Some guys are never the same again and much more likely to get knocked out again once they get knocked out really badly. Who do you think of all of the people that you know has got the right balance of is successful and is also having fun at the same time?

2:16:37Because it seems like that's a trade that a lot of people can make where they are successful, but they sacrifice their happiness or they're kind of happy, but they're not pursuing external successes in the same way. I would say comedians. I would say Chappelle. Chappelle is probably the most successful guy that's genuinely happy. I mean, he certainly has a lot of moments in deep thought. but when you're hanging around with him, he's a lovely person. He's a happy, lovely guy. He's so sweet and so smart and so self-deprecating and interesting and so great at what he does, but when you're hanging out with him, it's just a hang.

2:17:16He's just having fun, laughing a lot, got a great crew. He keeps his circle tight with cool people and just has a great time. Have you deconstructed what that is? Like what the contributing elements are? I think he just, he's doing it. Well, he's a very unusual person, right? So you're talking about Dave Chappelle when Chappelle's show was the number one comedy in the country. It was the greatest sketch show. I think it was the greatest sketch show of all time. And it was only two seasons, right? And then they offered him an enormous amount of money. I think it was$50 million. And they wanted to change a bunch of stuff.

2:17:54They wanted him to stop saying certain words. They wanted him to stop doing this, stop doing that. And he didn't like it. And he said, I quit. And he went to Africa and just fucking hung out in Africa. And then came back. When he came back, he stopped doing stand-up. He would do stand-up. I remember one time he did stand-up in a park in Seattle. So he showed up. He had little speakers with him and a microphone and just did stand-up for free to these people. just hung out in Seattle, just did stand-up. And he would do stuff like that, show up places and just do stand-up occasionally. I mean, for 10 fucking years.

2:18:32He was like a monk on a walkabout. How did he stay sharp? Well, I don't think he ever stopped thinking about things the same way. And he wasn't as sharp when he came back. There was one famous video from him in Hartford, Connecticut, where he bombed. But I always tell people, stay out of Connecticut. but just that's not the point it's like you know i think england's depressed um but the point was then eventually he started touring regularly got it all back plus then some and then is now widely regarded as if not the greatest of all time he's in the consideration there's like prior him murphy kinnison lenny bruce carlin for some there's like a bunch of different people that you put into like the greatest of all time and Dave is certainly in that group but he's very happy he's a happy guy I mean certainly there's cultural issues that play that trouble him and life issues that everybody goes through that trouble him but uh genuinely a pretty balanced guy for someone who's ultra successful but he's not stepping outside of his lane either what he's really concentrating on and almost exclusively concentrating on is doing stand-up comedy and he will travel he would get in a jet and fly to new york unannounced and just show up at clubs and start doing stand-up and um he's done this forever one time i was in colorado and i've known dave forever i met dave when he was like 19 and i was like i guess i was like 23 or 24 we were both very young and even back then i was like this kid is so talented it was it was like remarkable how poised he was on stage, like as a 19 year old kid.

2:20:12He will just show up places. I was in Colorado doing standup. I was at the comedy works. I get off stage. It was on a Friday night. I go into the green room and Dave's there. He doesn't live in Colorado. He just flew to Colorado because he knew I was going to be there and he wanted to do comedy. And so I go, do you want to do a set? He goes, should I? I go, yes. I go, hold on. So I went back on stage. The show was over. I go, everybody Yell at the people that are on the stairs to come back. Dave Chappelle is here and half the crowd had already like got up and left They all come back everyone everyone tells everyone they're yelling it up the stairs.

2:20:47Dave Chappelle's here come back I bring him on stage. Everybody goes crazy and he does like 45 minutes just fucking around It was back in the grab him by the pussy days So he had this whole like he said grab him by the pussy and this whole bit like it just happened that week and he had this like giant and he just wanted to just go places and do comedy so he's not doing it for money right he's not getting paid to do this show he would show up in new york he's not getting paid to do the stand or wherever these clubs that he just shows up and he's just working he's just working on the craft of comedy so his mindset is not try to make the most amount of money with stand-up because if he was doing that he would do an arena every night right but he could he could do an arena every night of the week all over the world and make way more money but that's not what he's doing what he's doing is working on the craft of comedy he has plenty of money right he has all this money from all these netflix specials they pay him an exorbitant amount of money and he makes all this money when he does do the big show so he's got plenty of money so it's not money it's just the craft it's just the art the new set the new bits the new thing he has a guy who films all of his sets so he's got like a guy there filming every one of his sets and they break them down like this rant that rant because he'll like ask questions to people in the audience he'll do like an hour and a half on stage just fucking around with a small crowd somewhere but there's a gem in there somewhere and then they take that gem and then they hit it and expands upon it he'll go over it and break it down so his process is all just about the art and i think because of that the love of the art is what keeps him happy i think it was just the love of the money and you're constantly keeping score who's the number one touring act and you're looking at the fucking ticket master oh jesus christ kevin hart's got me beat son of a bitch i gotta do two shows a night now yeah let's matinate yeah people get nutty they get nutty and they really do get themselves you see in the podcast world as well people really get obsessed with the number of the rankings and like who's making more and who's doing this and just do what you do well you're the problem that you're going to come up against there is you are going to try and trade the outcome that you're looking for for the fuel that gets you there the fuel that gets you there is how much you love what you're doing yes yeah so i've been thinking that's what gets you to the dance correct i've been thinking so much about um the shame of simple pleasures so um there's this quote from a guy called visakan barasimi that says i have not yet grown wise enough to deeply enjoy simple things and uh i just love the idea of it that most of us are kind of terrible accountants of our own joy yeah that we only uh accept deposits when the transaction's large enough right the day that we get married or the night that we play the main stage at glastonbury or sell out the arena anything less than that yeah and it doesn't even make the ledger so we treat small pleasures like counterfeit currency and we think like we have a kind of uh not disgust but rejection of oh that small thing made your week that tiny incident made your day you must not have a lot going on like how weak and how small must your life be that seeing a cute golden retriever this afternoon was like a fucking sick part of your day and I think about Scotty Scheffler as a good example him making it all the way to the top and if all that you were doing was waiting for that final moment for this main stage at Glastonbury day that I get married sell the business for 500 million dollars whatever you are forgetting almost all of the journey and then just cashing in at the destination and there's the guy that's just won everything in all the fucking golf like the the goat of right now is saying it's fleeting yeah it's really really short it's not going to last for very long and uh that shame that people have i certainly know that i do as well that it almost feels like a reflection on the smallness of my life if i take pleasure in little things but when you take pleasure in little things you don't just get more of them you get them right now you don't need to wait you don't need to like be a fucking world champion at the winning the marshmallow test just delaying gratification so long that you never actually end up getting any gratification.

2:25:03Yeah. The problem with that thought process is to achieve true greatness, you must be mad. Madness and greatness are inextricably connected. You can't separate them. To get true greatness, there has to be some demons. There has to be a mad struggle in your mind. And you have to want it so badly. You have to have to want that result so badly that you are willing to put in more time, more effort, more focus, more hours. And just, you don't get to smell the roses, man. You don't. You don't get to pet the puppies. You do, but you don't, you're petting the puppy thinking about the thing that you do, thinking about getting better because you need those resources.

2:25:51It's like a demon that sort of climbs inside of you and wears you. Yeah. You know who Ronnie O'Sullivan is? Yeah, the snooker Yeah, the greatest of all time. Like, there's certain people in certain sports. I'm going to send you something, Jamie. So you see what a wizard this guy is. I'm actually in the middle of his book. My friend Billy Thorpe, who's a top flight pool player, recommended this book. Oh, no, I'm sorry. Tyler Styler, who's another top flight pool player, like world-class pool player, recommended this book. And I started the book, and I can't stop it. It's so good. How old is it?

2:26:25About, I think it's fairly recent because it's post-COVID. I thought it was going, he recommended it because of the way Ronnie describes picking the perfect cue. Like the relationship that he has with the cue. But it is so eloquent and so, but the story, the whole story, the whole book rather, the story of his life is really more of, it's an exercise in him trying to explain like what it's like to be this good and this mad like he's a mad man like watch this watch this watch what he does here this is crazy

2:27:08now if you don't know how difficult it is to make these balls he doesn't give a shit that that guy's in front of him that the referee's in front of him watch how quickly he does this I mean he's making the audience laugh He's moving around that guy He can't miss This is the zone personified He gets to a point in this Where he's feeling so good He decides to start shooting things one handed Watch this One handed One handed These are tiny little pockets He's shooting one handed with English And getting position Everyone's going crazy I mean, that's how fucking good Ronnie O'Sullivan was. Like, but the book is really about managing madness.

2:27:55It's about him being sober, and now he's kind of taken a lot of that insane competitive drive, and now he runs, like he's a runner, like he runs long distances. And he talks about that, meets up with his running club, and they all get together and go on runs together. but it's like it's just managing whatever the fuck that in in in and is also describing even in his prime he was saying he was thinking he's worthless he's thinking he's not good enough he's gonna fall apart he's gonna choke he's gonna this he's like all these demons are popping up and meanwhile he's just everybody's like terrified of him he shows up it's like oh gee the genius is here because he's a genius like he's a snooker playing genius there's there's something about what he does is just different than everybody else.

2:28:36But the book is like, it's not just about like picking the perfect cue. It's really about managing madness. And everyone who's great is fucking crazy. But you can, I think, like Chappelle does, you can take that greatness and just throw it into the thing you do and love it while you're doing it. You can't, it doesn't have to be a demon. doesn't have to be an adversary. It could be like just this romantic affair of you being so fortunate to be able to pursue this thing but maintaining that same level of enthusiasm. I don't know if the same level of enthusiasm, though, can be maintained in something that has like a winner and a loser, like a game where there's so much riding on each shot.

2:29:23Binary outcome. Yes, versus art, which is like Dave goes to – he's already won. They're gonna they're the show sold out. He knows how to do comedy. He gets out there. They all cheer He's got great material. He can't wait to make them laugh. He already won Well, that's the problem with turning the art into the competition Yeah, she said there right the rankings well That means that even if I did it and enjoyed it, but I'm number three or whatever. Yeah, that's horrendous That's not good. Yeah, I uh, there's podcasts that game the system So this podcast, they release multiple episodes a day, and they're short podcasts, so they have more downloads than everybody else.

2:30:00Because downloads are counted to get you up. Relatively speaking, you know, so it's like a scam. And so, like, they'll be very highly ranked, but no one's ever watched or heard of it. I think. But they'll get quoted in magazines as being the number two podcast in the world. Oh, dear. But that's really what it is. It's like you've figured out a way, which there's nothing wrong with that. If you want to do that, you can game the system. But it doesn't matter. Like, what are you doing? Like, are you doing something that you're putting out? Like, I don't talk to anybody that I'm not interested in talking to.

2:30:30That's it. It's the only reason why I do this. I talk to people that I think will be fun, and I look forward to it, and I still do. That's why I do it. That's why, you know, it continues to work because I do it the same way I've always done it. I just talk to people that I like to talk to. No, like, oh, if I got that guy on, he's super famous. Like, that'll get a big rating. Day in the system. Yeah. there's a lot of famous people that I've said no to because I'm just not interested in them. I'm like, yeah, maybe that'll get a lot of people, but I don't want to do that. What I've found, the single best determinant for when I know that modern wisdom is going well is if I wake up on the morning of the episode and I can't wait for it to be 2 p.m.

2:31:09I'm like, fucking yes, I get to speak to such and such today. And then I finish up and I go, I learned something. That was fucking cool. Like that was a good one, two, three, four hours. That was a good day. and then there's other days when I've like I don't know I wake up and I just think I should have I should have thought a little bit more about I'm like I'm looking forward to this but I'm not super fired up and the more that you push away from that instinct with whatever you're doing but because your instinct is ultimately your only competitive advantage that you have because it's the most non-fungible thing that you've got so Douglas Murray told me this story it's really fascinating one about this guy when Douglas was first on the scene this guy that was uh the head of the paper that he was at.

2:31:49It accumulated all of the fans and all of the foes that you would in an industry like that over the space of a couple of decades. And he decides that he's going to release a West End show about the life of Prince Charles in rhyming couplets. Douglas is like, what? Okay, you know, you trust him? This guy, this illustrious history, so he must know what he's doing. And by the opening night interval there is nobody left in the entire auditorium including the cast everybody's left and this guy is dejected and all of the people all of the enemies that he's accumulated throughout his career they start sharpening the knives and they come out and he's just despondent like so so sad douglas sees him a couple of weeks later and he goes fucking west end show about the life of prince charles in rhyming couplets what were you thinking he said Douglas I followed my instincts and the thing is instincts they may sometimes lead you wrong but they're the only thing that's ever led you right I thought that's such a cool insight about yes you're going to make some errors if you follow that and maybe you need a team around you or a friend to go ah not with that one but right you just going I think this guy's interesting I think this girl is interesting i think this topic's important and i'm going to talk about it maybe he just did a bad job like look at hamilton they did a rap about alexander hamilton it's fucking huge okay yes you might have the great idea but the delivery is wrong yeah yeah that's an interesting one totally i if you think about hamilton like hamilton is a great example that's that play is gigantic it's on netflix now and it keeps on crushing yeah it's killing it yeah and it's so preposterous if you think about it in like they're they're talking in modern language about a guy who lived hundreds of years ago like that doesn't even make any sense they have black people playing white people like this is gonna be weird it's great where's it's fucking great where do you think that drive comes from in people you know that that that demon thing is there a common thread that you've seen with the people that have got it yeah most of them had unhappy childhoods yeah it's very rare that someone has like the the best in the world demon and their childhood was awesome it's very rare generally speaking there's something there something some loss some trauma something not good some lack of what you needed when you were young you didn't get it and you know and then you're like i'm gonna fucking show everyone like mike tyson maybe the best example that ever.

2:34:34Like for a period of time, the scariest heavyweight that ever walked the face of the planet and redefined the heavyweight division in modern boxing. And, you know, he was 13 years old when Customato had adopted him and his life was hell before that. It was hell. No love was crime and being around the worst people. And then all of a sudden he's in the Catskills with this guy who's a psychologist and one of the greatest boxing coaches of all time and also a hypnotist and is hypnotizing him on a regular basis when he's 13 years old and teaches him to be the best. And so then he's got this, I will show you that I'm worth something.

2:35:12I will show you that I'm special at this one thing that I'm good at, and that is separating men from their consciousness, finding a way to get in touch with them, finding, get close enough at launching, launching bombs and watching them drop. And he was the best at it. And it was, I think, the drive to be the best. It has to come from some, there's got to be something wrong where you have that fire inside of you. I love thinking about this. I think it's been the question that I've probably been the most obsessed by since doing the show. The price that people pay to be somebody that you admire.

2:35:47And I think it's just endlessly interesting. So one thing that comes to mind there is, do you know what the fundamental attribution error is? It's like we attribute to other people motive for their action. It's like their character. But for us, it's situation. So, for instance, I cut you off in traffic because I'm late for work. You cut me off in traffic because you're a dick. Right. So we have this asymmetry in how we judge other people's behaviors as opposed to our own. I think that there's an equivalent here when we think about our parents. So you could call it the fundamental, like, parental attribution error, maybe, which would be.

2:36:27we attribute to our parents our shortcomings, but not necessarily our strengths. Right. So we're very happy. Like modern pop psychology, it's like a rite of passage to lay at the feet of our parents. I've got anxious attachment because nobody ever came to look after me. You go, yeah, maybe. But also, isn't this the reason that your hypervigilance means that no one ever gets to take advantage of you? It's like I am unable to relax and chill out because love was always predicated on me performing. It's like, yes, but also it's driven you to be an incredibly successful person. And I think we should just be a little bit cautious when laying at the feet of our parents only our shortcomings.

2:37:09They can either have both. You can either say that my strengths and my shortcomings come from my parents or my strengths and my shortcomings come from my own agency. But you can't say I authored the things that I like about myself, but the things that I don't like about myself came from some like past situation yes yeah victim mentality yeah yes yeah yeah and also bad things that happened to you when you're kid being bullied being bullied is terrible at the time but it leads many a person to say i'll fucking show you yeah you know and then you get this incredible result but then the thing is like are you happy that's that's the that's the real dance.

2:37:49The dance is between success and happiness. And a lot of people have achieved success, but have not achieved happiness and they'll die a loser. Well, that's you sacrificing the thing you want for the thing that's supposed to get it. And that's why like, okay, what's your definition of success? Interesting question. Would you just want to be the best in the world? Maybe like that's not bad. That's not a bad, but it's this thing we talked about before too. Um, that just because something's difficult doesn't mean it's good. And there's a lot of things that you do that are very difficult to do. And then you see other people have achieved them.

2:38:23You say, that must be really worthwhile. And then you do it and you realize like, oh, this isn't worth anything. This is just hard to do. This sucks. That's often the case with success, because if you become incredibly successful and then you have all these haters and, you know, like the guy who wrote the shitty play, like They come for you, and they want to chop you down, and that's part of the game that you're playing. And if you don't like that, if you don't like that, but then you've gotten trapped in it, and you're constantly being attacked, and you listen to it, and you pay attention to it.

2:38:57You see it with successful people. You see it really with famous people, especially young people. They have no history with this, and then all of a sudden it's just thrown at them, and then they are both the thing they wanted and something they would never want, which is to be like constantly under attack. I've thought about how brutal it must be to have the talent but not the constitution to be able to handle success and fame. So I don't know whether you've been tracking Lewis Capaldi, the Scottish singer. So there's a great documentary on Netflix. You've got to watch it. How I'm Feeling Now, it's a bit old now.

2:39:32It's like maybe four or five years old. Lewis Capaldi breaks onto the scene. Unbelievable voice. He's been playing working men's pubs around Scotland and is just a fucking phenom, right? Billions of streams, billions and billions of plays, arena tour, global tour, all the rest of it. COVID happens. He's back in his mum and dad's house near Glasgow in Scotland and he's in the hut out the back trying to do the difficult second album and there's the pressure of the world on him. Now he's got the talent, but the pressure from agencies, from record label, from fans, from himself, from his parents, from his peers, from everybody, starts to get on him.

2:40:13It weighs on him so heavily that he develops a tick. Oh, Jesus. Like Tourette's. It turns out he's always had Tourette's, but the pressure has caused him to, like, he can't perform. And toward the end of the documentary, he goes back out on stage at the O2 in London, does the thing, walks out on stage, and he's still doing this, and you've tracked this whole journey. This is toward the end, and he can't get his words out. this is his calling in life this is what he was built to do this is what he was made for and his talent has been taken away from him by the pressure of trying to do the thing not by his inability to do the thing and this is such a fucking unique kind of hell i think about that i think about um uh fighters that have performance anxiety that just can't get themselves into the octagon with the lights on them put them in the training camp that they're sparring there's not that same amount of pressure not yet and they've they're unbelievable and uh lewis capaldi did glastonbury i think two years ago and um the same thing happened comes out on stage and basically i can't sing he can't you're hearing these little croaks and squeaks come out of him and then this year he comes back out he's done a ton of mindfulness got his health in order mental health work therapy comes out and fucking destroys it oh wow dude it's like it makes the hairs on my arm stand up it's so fucking cool wow that's awesome that's a great story that's what i like to see i like to see someone who fucks their whole life up and gets it back together again i love that i really do because i think that's what people really root for they really root for you to get it back together again what they don't root for is once you're on top like staying on top they like you to fall yeah yeah that's a little too much well i mean i i uh i think especially with with what most people feel they want to see a little bit of themselves in that story and they want to see a little bit of struggle right and they also know that they've fucked up their life because everybody's fucked up their life at some point in time redemption yes if this person can be there and lose it and then come back maybe i can get my shit together that's the problem as a 42 year old alcoholic yeah yeah you're not gonna be lewis capaldi but maybe you are maybe you're uh, Oliver Anthony, you know, Churchill didn't get into power until he was 65.

2:42:35Wow. So all of my life up until now would be less than two thirds of the warmup set for Churchill starting his thing. Right. So I just, you never know sort of when this stuff's going to come along. I do love though, the, uh, the idea of watching somebody climb to the top, lose it, and then turn it back around again. I think it's just such a fucking wonderful idea. We all love that. But I think it's because we try to see some of ourself in someone, which is why we don't like things that are created by a corporation where they put together a band like the monkeys or something like that and fake it.

2:43:11Nepotism, silver spoon baby. We hate all of that. We hate all of that. We hate all the people handed their life on a silver platter. If it feels like somebody didn't earn it. Yeah. Yeah. I worry about where motivation comes from for people in a way. If you are able to game the system, which people are now, they can like speed run relatability and authenticity. But you don't know if this is some K-pop thing, some industry plant style scenario that's just been placed together to try and get this, give you a sense of resonance with this person that doesn't deserve it. They didn't actually struggle in that sort of a way, but they can construct the narrative that they did.

2:43:55And I think in a world that's become increasingly prefabricated, like people are looking, they're scrutinizing very aggressively. Is this person who they say they are? This is the hypocrisy that points out that they're not. Right, right. And that's where you get performative vulnerability. Oh, woe is me. They pretend to have Tourette's, although I'm sure some people do. They pretend they're struggling. Correct. Yeah. Because I need the sympathy vote. Yeah. Ugh. Ugh. Yeah. Isn't that an interesting thing? Well, the real problem was when someone pretends and you catch them pretending like that, then you're never going to trust them again.

2:44:29You could fail. You can fail and fuck up. You could think you got it right and you got it wrong and you just, ugh, fuck. But if you pretend, if you lie, if you show deception, if you pretend you're something that you're not and they find out, like Ellen, you know, she's a nice lady. She's all dancing. Meanwhile, she's fucking screaming at people and mean. Yep. You know, that's like, oh, you were lying. That is fucking catnip. Yeah. To people. Oh, they love it. Yeah. Well, there's nothing that the Internet wants more than to find somebody that's a hypocrite. Sure. Right. Because the Internet is basically one big spot the difference competition.

2:45:06You said this thing here. You behave this way here. Right. I can compare the two. You have fallen short like and the fucking jury comes down and smashes you in the head. It's also because we crave authenticity. We wish we had it. We crave it in other people. We want, like, we're all trying to, we're watching all these different people, like this guy play golf and that guy play music, and we're watching all these people do all these different things, and we're getting something out of it all. There's a reason why you like that thing on Netflix. It fuels the human condition. It gives you happiness.

2:45:42In a genuine moment like that, It's like a very special element that it adds to your life. And we crave that. And it's hard to know what's real and what's not real. That's why people get mad at me when I say I like AI music. Like I know it's not real. I still like it. But I don't like it the same way I like listening to Johnny Cash sing Hurt. You know what I mean? It's like there's an authenticity to that. There's a real thing to that. It's very tangible. It's different. There's an upper bound on it. I certainly think, I'm friends with a lot of musicians, and one of the issues I think that they have with the AI revolution, apart from the fact that they're coming for our jobs, which is obvious, is that learning a musical instrument is really fucking hard, and it takes a very long time.

2:46:33I think that the revolution for podcasting has made it fucking fantastic for people to feel less lonely and have exposure to conversations and information they never would have done. But anybody that sticks a microphone in front of them can record a podcast. It may be a totally shit podcast, but if you give me a guitar, I can't make notes come out of it. So the bar that you need to get over to just be acceptably proficient, enough to be able to have the conversation, right? Everybody does what is equivalent of a podcast. Everybody that has never recorded a podcast has had a great conversation over dinner and gone, dude, if we recorded that, that would have got millions of plays on YouTube.

2:47:10right like um so everyone is a little bit closer to this and i think that one of the issues that the music industry or musicians within the industry have is that ai feels like it's allowing people to leapfrog the first very long very boring very grindy stage of well this is where your fucking fingers need to go on the saxophone or this is how you need to pick the strings in order to make the sound come out of the guitar yeah and if you leapfrog it that feels like a little bit like a technology enabled nepotism in a way you've got yourself toward the end you shouldn't be able to make this this is like a guarded and highly invested is this i mean you guys see this in comedy in comedy you're like dude until you're eight like the first seven years like they're just you earning your keep and then you're right whatever it is like it's a thousand shows and once you've done a thousand spots then you can say that you've started doing comedy or whatever it is for podcasting i think it's like 150 episodes before anyone that asks me like i'm beginning my podcast and what's your advice and i'm like once episode 150 starts yeah you have begun doing a podcast up until then it's basically a warm-up set and uh i think with music because it's such a high investment that people need to have at the very very beginning this sense that there is a shortcut that allows people who haven't earned their way to get there it would be like if you were using ai to write comedy sets yeah and i think you're correct but i also think that's probably what lions felt when people invented guns like this is bullshit i've been chasing you motherfuckers down and eating you for thousands of years now all of a sudden you just squeeze your little finger and i die instantaneously that's bullshit it's coming it's coming it's coming in all forms of entertainment it's gonna they've figured out what you like they've got a giant catalog of billions of hours of human beings paying attention to things and it's coming it's coming it's going to overwhelm you and it's going to be indiscernible from reality eventually it's going to be something that you've physically experienced as well as visual and audio you're gonna you're gonna have the whole experience we'd better enjoy ourselves while we can yeah have fun while you can chris i appreciate you very much it's always awesome talking to you your podcast is excellent um tell everybody where they can get it where they can find you Modern Wisdom on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, Chris Williamson on YouTube, etc., etc.

2:49:30I appreciate the fuck out of you, man. I appreciate the fuck out of you too, brother. It's always good talking to you. It's always fun. Goodbye, everybody. Peace.