#2421 - Derek, More Plates More Dates - The Joe Rogan Experience: Summary & Transcript

In short

Podcast Summary: The Joe Rogan Experience #2421 - Derek, More Plates More Dates

Episode Overview In this episode of *The Joe Rogan Experience*, Joe sits down with Derek from the *More Plates More Dates* YouTube channel and podcast. The discussion revolves around fitness, supplements, bodybuilding, and the impacts of various substances on health and performance.

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Key Topics Discussed

Nootropics and Supplements
Gorilla Mind: Derek discusses the formulation of Gorilla Mind, a nootropic drink aimed at enhancing cognitive function.
Ingredients:
Tyrosine: Precursor for dopamine.
Alpha-GPC: Bioavailable form of choline for neurotransmitter support.
Caffeine: 200 mg dosage, a balance to avoid addiction while providing benefits.
Uridine Monophosphate: Enhances sensitivity to stimulants and dopamine transmission.
L-Theanine: Mitigates the jitteriness caused by caffeine, promotes calmness.
Saffron Extract: Potential antidepressant effects without significant side effects.
Huperazine: Inhibits acetylcholinesterase, increasing cognitive capacity.
Formulation Process: Derek emphasizes the balance between sustainability in dosages and efficacy, aiming for a widely acceptable product.

Dietary Considerations
Choline Deficiency: Many individuals are unaware of the importance of choline in their diet, primarily sourced from liver and eggs.
Creatine Updates: Conversations around the ideal dosages for creatine and its impact on performance, particularly for enhancing mental and physical capacities.

Weight Management and Body Composition
Bodybuilders vs. Functional Athletes: Discussion on how bodybuilding focuses on aesthetics rather than functional strength, which can lead to limitations in athletic performance.
The Psychology of Weight Loss: Derek shares experiences about individuals struggling with self-perception and motivation in fitness, especially during competition prep.

Genetics and Performance
Genetic Limitations: They talk about how certain individuals may not respond to anabolic substances as expected based on genetics, and that this can impact their bodybuilding journey.
Youth and Bodybuilding: The importance of understanding one’s genetic predispositions when setting realistic fitness goals.

Personal Development and Motivation
Jelly Roll's Success Story: The journey of Jelly Roll losing weight through sheer willpower and commitment was shared, highlighting the struggle against societal pressures and personal demons.
Work-Life Balance: Joe discusses the importance of disconnecting from social media to maintain focus and mental wellness.

Controversial Practices in Bodybuilding
Injury and Recovery: Derek touches upon the extreme lengths some individuals go to in order to achieve their desired physique, discussing the risks involved with weight loss drugs and the pressure to maintain certain body standards.
The Impact of Social Media: Both Joe and Derek reflect on how social media can create unrealistic expectations and affect mental health.

Harm Reduction in Fitness
Education on Substances: The conversation shifts to how the fitness community is evolving in terms of knowledge about various substances and their potential risks vs. benefits.
Preventative Medicine: Merrick Health is mentioned as a way to promote health management through proper diagnostics and health optimization.

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Key Takeaways

Balance in Supplementation: It is essential to create a product that is both effective and sustainable in the long term.
The Dangers of Quick Fixes: Relying on extreme measures for weight loss (like GLP-1 agonists) can lead to negative health consequences if not managed properly.
Understanding Personal Limits: Bodybuilders and athletes should have a clear understanding of their genetic limits and the implications of substance use on their health.
Social Media's Role: Maintaining mental health through mindful social media use is crucial in today’s connected world, especially for public figures.
Holistic Health Approaches: Emphasizing the importance of preventive care and responsible use of supplements can lead to healthier long-term outcomes for individuals in the fitness community.

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Conclusion This episode of *The Joe Rogan Experience* provides insightful discussions on fitness, health, and the psychological aspects of body image, emphasizing the importance of education and balanced approaches in the journey to physical wellness. Joe and Derek engage in a candid conversation that touches on the complexities of modern bodybuilding and the evolving nature of fitness culture.

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Transcript

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0:28Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! mean robust you're saying it like it potentially oh both flavor and uh i think it's great oh right red gummy fish this is fucking delicious i drink the shit out of this oh a lot of stuff in here what's in here so i think it was the first time i was on you asked me about gorilla mind and the nootropic formula that i used before podcasts yeah to get cognitively dialed and at the time it was a capsule-based formula and it still is it still exists but taking what we could to suspend end in a liquid format and getting it into something that's more like publicly and widely accepted that they would want to drink on a regular basis and it's something you could use daily.

1:07It's kind of what we did in this. So we included essentially like a daily use version of the Gorilla Mind formula, which includes the tyrosine precursor for dopamine, as well as other neurotransmitters, catecholamines like adrenaline or adrenaline. Also, AlphaGPC, most bioavailable form of choline. It crosses the blood-brain barrier and is pretty efficacious and also just a good choline source in general, which most people are deficient in as a nutrient. And I think completely unaware that it's actually important to be supplementing with potentially. Pretty hard to get an adequate amount of choline, but - Where does it come from in food?

1:45Liver is a good source, eggs. And in general, it's just like the highly nutrition dense foods that you would get it from. A lot of people aren't focusing on specifically either because of caloric density or it's like an animal based like nose to tail thing or fill in the blank. It's not impossible to do it. A lot of people who focus on it could probably relatively easily, but it's still one of the things you have to focus on actually kind of like maneuvering into your diet typically. So in general, most people are at least maybe like 50 % of the way that are at best. And that's even among people who I would say are relatively balanced diet individuals.

2:24Interesting. So I'm sure you're familiar with cholinergics and their impact on cognition and whatnot. Caffeine, tried and true. How much you got in here? 200 milligrams. Nice. Very difficult decision trying to come up with what is the amount you're going to stick with in perpetuity in this thing. Everyone's addicted now. It's a real issue with caffeine. So it's like the fine line balance of not too much, something that is still tolerable, sustainable, going to be widely accepted and widely impactful on a beneficial level, but not overdoing it. And 200 is kind of what we landed on. And then urodine monophosphate, pretty unique ingredient.

3:00I haven't seen anybody ever included in a drink, let alone even in supplements typically. What is it? So it's also something that operates via the cholinergic system, but in a different way. Mainly, it's utility is kind of enhancing your sensitivity to stimulants. So somebody who is otherwise desensitized from like heightened exposure to things that either desensitize them to caffeine or nicotine or things of this nature, even something like the ADHD medications. this can actually at least the literature suggests strongly that it enhances dopamine neurotransmission potential. So like almost restoring function and damaged dopamine producing neurons in the brain.

3:44So you can kind of get a heightened impact out of the same level of stimulant. So a caffeine dose that might otherwise be you're used to it now. You start to feel it again more than you used to without having to increase your caffeine intake. Yeah. So it's a pretty cool ingredients. And it seems to have some neuroprotective properties potentially as well. And some interesting literature on like Alzheimer's and whatnot, but it's more like fringe and to be determined how impactful it is. And then on top of that, we have L-thenine. You're probably familiar with its effects stacked with caffeine, increases alpha waves, good for verbal fluency, as well as just general attention, concentration, but keeping you a little bit more balanced and mellow while you have the heightened stimulatory activity from the caffeine and the other kind of like dopaminergic compounds.

4:31And then also saffron extract, which is a totally unique inclusion, in my opinion. Still don't really see it in nootropic formulas, let alone in drinks. And it's something that in literature is shown to be as efficacious as pharmaceutical SSRIs without inducing the same erectile dysfunction-inducing effects of it and without causing the same anhedonia-inducing effects, which is kind of like the muting of pleasure in the brain. Saffron. Yeah, super interesting ingredient. It seems to be pretty impactful for depression, for anti-anxiety, and it also operates through a seemingly different mechanism, even though it's often stacked up against SSRIs for its comparisons and outperforms them or matches it with a relative lack of side effects.

5:20It is something that operates through seemingly antioxidant activity, some dopaminergic, some serotonergic, and just a little bit more of a benign way to achieve what is a similar outcome, but with a seemingly lower, if not negligible, to nonexistent side effect profile. I'm not saying that's what our drink does. I'm just saying that's what the literature on saffron says, and anyone can go look that up and reference it. And then huperazine, probably the most impactful acetylcholinesterase inhibitor that you can include alongside like choline precursors. So it inhibits the breakdown of acetylcholine as opposed to being the fuel, like the precursor, like choline, alpha-GPC, CDP choline.

6:00These are things that provide the substrate to actually produce the acetylcholine, preventing the breakdown of it too, could otherwise get like a one-two punch where you get the heightened fuel substrate, but then also an inhibition of its breakdown. So you have just like a heightened level of cognitive capacity through both like the one-two punch. How did you determine these like doses and what you were going to include and not include? So a lot of it derived from the original capsule-based formula. So back in, I don't know, 2021, I had already been using this thing for daily use essentially.

6:37and it was something that was determined based upon years of experience, personal anecdotes, but digging through hordes of clinical literature ultimately. There's a lot of these compounds that have clinical studies on them for different applications. You can kind of sift through what are the efficacious dosages, where are they impactful, or as a sustainable level, you could actually take this long term without it being negatively impactful because sometimes if you overdo it in one area over time, it might be problematic. So trying to find the fine balance of where is a dose that moves the needle but isn't going to kind of like push you in too far of a negative direction that it's unsustainable.

7:17Because sometimes this stuff, it's like a hammer solution. You might see an energy drink that's like 300, 350 caffeine. And it's like, okay, you know, you've essentially like singled out a lot of the customers who might otherwise benefit from it. Even if there was other good stuff in the drink, it's like only stim junkies can use it now, you know? So this is kind of like the fine balance of what I thought to be the most sustainable version of balancing dopamine input, serotonergic activity, getting some of that anti-anxiety support, and also getting a reasonable hit of caffeine. And did you – so in pill form, so did you start out by using each individual supplement and then trying to use them in combination to see if there's a synergistic effect?

8:02Like how did you do it over time? I guess maybe that's a bit more interesting than digging through literature. But when I was a university student, just like being a nerd, mixing stuff in my kitchen, like a chemist, essentially, and just measuring raw powders back, you know, in the day what we would do, or at least, you know, like biohackers and what have you, we'd buy just like off of different websites, raw bulk ingredients. And then you'd measure it with little micro spoons in these laboratory increments to try and get, okay, the microgram equivalent of this. And you'd make some disgusting shake with a concoction of different unflavored powders and create what is your ultimate kind of combination through trial and error ultimately.

8:41And were you like doing a diary? Like today I feel great. Yeah. I was just keeping a log almost like, you know, working out. Like how did you respond to fill in the blank or. And just take into account like sleep, all these different factors, diet. As many variables at the time, obviously a bit more rudimentary and crude when you're like 21 years old and you're just trying to like get cognitively locked in to study for finals. But back then it was just what is the most impactful things that I've heard work? And then also digging further into literature, looking on the limited forums that existed back then online because it's a lot more of like a niche community back then.

9:20It's not like this was widely discussed. 2009. 2008. This episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog. I think we can all agree that eating highly processed food for every meal isn't optimal. So why is processed food the status quo for dog food? Because that's what kibble is, an ultra processed food. But a healthy alternative exists, the farmer's dog. They make fresh food for dogs. And what does it look like? Real meat and vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients and help avoid any of the bad stuff that comes with ultra processing. And it's not just random ingredients thrown together.

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11:51Okay. Did you ever try that one? Neuro One. It's Bill Romanowski's company, the football player. So he developed it because he was having cognitive problems after years and years of playing football. And so he came up with this formulation. And I was doing this radio show, Allison No Name in San Francisco. And No Name's a dude. I forget his name, unfortunately. Ironically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So long ago. but he uh was working out with romanowski romanowski was trying to get him in shape and he gave him this stuff he said hey try it and it was you know i do morning radio when you're promoting like i was doing cobs comedy club whenever you're doing a comedy club you'd show this is back in the day when radio meant something you'd show up in the morning and you do the morning drive and uh they would go oh joe rogan's appearing at the comedy club this weekend come see him and you'd be funny on the radio and have a good time with the people and he gave it to me And I was like, hey, man, this stuff feels like something's going on.

12:46Like this is legit. And that's what really got me. That's how we developed AlphaBrain. We developed AlphaBrain after me trying out Neuro One saying, can we optimize this? Is there another way to do this? Is there other forms that we're missing? But your formulation seems like very comprehensive and also fucking delicious. Yeah. One of the difficult things, too, is making it taste good while still being able to suspend the active ingredients because they could just fall out of suspension or myriad of different issues, carbonation problems, even exploding cans in transit that you're not predicting are going to react a certain way.

13:24Even the black lids, dude, like it's stuff you don't even think of, but absorbing heat. It's like, oh, it's going to be more prone to blowing up now because of that. Oh, because of a black lid. Did you want a black lid just for aesthetics? Yeah, at the time. This looks cool. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And so what are you sweetening this stuff with? Primarily sucralose, which obviously, you know, some people have their opinions on it and that's totally fine and good. But in general, based on clinical literature, seems to be well tolerated. What is the issue with it that people have? I think some people think it depends on the person and like the kind of content they make typically.

13:58Typically they have a bit of a bias. Yeah. But in general, it's, you know, going to irritate your gut or it could cause GI distress. And for some people with extremely sensitive gastrointestinal issues, it can for sure. But in general, at the dosages used and just having it even conservatively, which most people are going to be, it's like pretty benign, at least from the literature I've seen. One of the things that we had noticed when we first came out with AlphaBrain was for some people, it's a small amount, but for some people they would get headaches and they felt terrible after taking it. I don't know what their dose is.

14:32I don't know if they were taking the recommended dose or if they were saying, well, two's good. I'll take five. There's a lot of folks like that out there. But – Yeah, some of these, if you're not careful, it could be pushing you into – like we vetted this out beforehand. But one of the first formulations or prototypes of Gorilla Mind in the capsule form, we had something called velvet bean extract, which standardizes to L-DOPA. So Levodopa is used for Parkinson's patients because it's a direct precursor to dopamine without a rate-limiting step that kind of regulates the conversion. So rather than using tyrosine, we thought, and we didn't end up releasing it because of this, we could just go, okay, let's get a straight precursor and see how impactful this thing is because we really want it to hit.

15:19and oh my god i i had like dopamine overdose myself had my girlfriend at the time also herself up and my parents fucked themselves up and somehow it didn't it didn't occur until like like three incidents later i'm like okay this thing is unsustainable and i guess my my business partners didn't really even think worth mentioning which was kind of crazy at the time because they They just trusted me to do the formulations and whatnot. But they had the same experience and didn't bring it up. And I'm like, guys, we can't release this shit. It was just way too intense. What did it do to you? It just makes you extremely nauseous.

15:59You feel like you have to keel over on a couch and just lie there until you feel like you can actually regain composure and start moving around again. Really? Yeah, dopamine, a lot of people think more is better. You're going to have more motivation, more drive. The more, the better is what a lot of people think. but similar to probably even worse than stimulants because at least stimulants you have kind of like a direct biofeedback through your heart rate's going through the roof and you're getting the anxiety. With dopamine, if you overdo it with something that you can't like rate limit either, you just like get sick and you just end up having to lie down for hours.

16:34Interesting. Yeah. One thing I like about a drink versus a pill form is that you can just take a little. Yeah, you can meter your dose. Yeah, because you take a pill, you're taking a pill. That's it. You can't like, unless you want to cut pills in half or pour some of the capsule out. No one's doing that. But this is nice because you can just kind of sip a little bit of it. How many of these can you drink in a day? I could drink a lot, personally. Like, you don't even want to know, dude. How many do you drink a day? On a typical day, probably two to three, but I could. What's recommended? Oh, check the warning label, bro.

17:09What does the warning label say, bro? It must say no more than two a day, but I would say on a podcast, not more than one is what I would recommend. Yeah. Well, especially with all that caffeine as well. Yeah, you never know. In general, 400 milligrams is even like the FDA stated, you know, everyone's going to be okay probably dose. But in reality, it's kind of crazy. A lot of people don't realize the studies done for caffeine-induced performance enhancement are all looking at like three to six milligrams a kilogram, which is like unless you're a tiny woman, 400, 500, 600 milligrams are the doses that actually really move the needle when it comes to acute performance enhancement.

17:51Chael Sonnen used to take it in pill form. Yeah. Because he was saying that there's a level where they'll test you where you'll pop, where they'll say, okay, you're in a stimulant level. Like you took a stimulant before you fought. Yeah, they had threshold concentrations that they would deem inappropriately high, perhaps for safety, perhaps because they thought it was an unfair advantage. I think that's what they were looking at. It kind of depends, though, because I think it was removed, and I don't think that threshold exists anymore except in the NCAA. I'd have to revisit it. But I'm pretty sure caffeine is like essentially you could go full bore at this point.

18:30So five, six hundred milligrams was what the efficacious dose was. So you can get performance enhancement as low as I think some people was like a milligram per kilogram. It depends on the person and tolerance, of course. But in general, the most tried and true studies when it comes to repeatable high impact with a proportional relative lack of side effects, but not none, was like three to six milligrams a kilogram. And some of the studies go even higher than that. And what are the benefits? Like what did they get? Like acute strength enhancement, offsetting like any sleep-induced deprivation and performance outcomes mentally.

19:12You can pretty much offset like a shitty night of sleep and all the kind of detriments to your performance via a pretty solid dose of caffeine. Yeah, most of the stuff is kind of energy, acutely offsetting performance decrement related, but also in a context of strength. high intensity activity, you can absolutely get a benefit from it. And there's a reason why, you know, sprinters will take, you know, modafinil or high dose caffeine or power lifters will take, you know, massive doses of, you know, pre-workout before a lift or whatnot. Like it's all impactful for your psychological state to get really like locked in, in a hypervigilant state to really max out on what you're trying to do, whatever it may be.

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21:12And we were talking about the impact of creatine. And they're trying to figure out what is the correct dose. And a lot of people are going 20, 30. they're getting pretty high you know because the recommended was like five milligrams I think yeah and now everyone's saying actually the real benefits are at 20 and you know at least 10 but you're getting a lot of what what happens when people have sleep deprivation and I'll butcher the science so I won't try to repeat it and I'd recommend anybody listen to the episode but what he was essentially saying was it bypasses all the problems that occur and you could at least have a bridge to your performance would not be impeded by a lack of sleep, at least for a temporary, for a day or whatever.

22:02Yeah, definitely want to touch on that. But one thing to mention on the caffeine too is I think a lot of people when they hear the stuff like, you know, I heard you can go up to 20 grams of creatine or, you know, the highest impact dose in caffeine literature is, you know, three to six milligrams a kilogram, it's not like I or I imagine Chris is like blindly recommending anybody start there. And it could easily get misconstrued that way in like a clippable format if people will just like hear the headline and then run with it. Like in you should start as low as you can with caffeine and you could get a ergogenic effect as low as I think the lowest dose was like 50 to 100 milligrams probably if you equated to body weight, but it's all like tolerance dependent.

22:43It's just when you look at the studies, like these are the repeatable high impact outcomes are typically in, and especially in like trained athletes where you're trying to see how hard you can push them. It's kind of like, you know, for max stress resilience, max, you know, acute force production. These are the kind of dosages that are just used in the studies. So anyway, with that caveat and same with the creatine, you know, you might shit yourself if you go to 20 right away. You don't want to start there. A lot of people do apparently. Yeah, and I mean like Rhonda Patrick, amazing content, and she tolerates 20 grams well, which is kind of like surprising because I know a lot of women who don't.

23:19I think she probably microdoses it throughout the day and is really regimented about making sure she's diligently spreading it out. But some people who they bomb 20 at a time, even guys who think they have iron stomachs. Just shit a little bit. It's so much powder too. Just the fact that you're consuming all this powder. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Speaking of which, are you still doing the, like, million gummies a day? Of what? Of creatine. No. You said you were going to crank that shit up to get to 20 grams. I stopped with the gummies, and I went to powdered form. Oh, okay. Because I felt like I'm tired of eating these fucking things.

23:55You got up to, like, what, like 10 plus a day? Oh, more. I was eating, like, 15 a day. Holy shit, dude. 15 gummies a day. But the issue is like what else is in the gummies? You know, what are the other things? Yeah, they're not free of calories either. It's kind of just like if I'm gonna eat candy, you know, kind of want it to be like good candy Yeah, I don't even know what it's sweetened with they taste good But the point was is like I didn't like eating them I was eating too. I'm like forcing myself to chew these things down. I'm like, what am I doing? I could just mix creatine in a glass of water stir it up real quick and just chug it in five seconds and we're done and I don't have to chew and swallow all these stupid fucking gummies.

24:31I know. But I do keep them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I keep them around because I think it's a great thing. If I hadn't had enough lately, I'll just pop a few. It's like the best gateway drug, if you can even call it. It's not like a drug, but to get people who otherwise would never try it to actually see the benefits of it. Right. So, like, I know so many women who literally refuse to take the powder. Right. Because it's like, even though it's kind of tasteless, it's still a nuisance, can be a little bit messy depending on the scooper shape of it and everything and how you're going to try to convince a chick, like, trust me, it's really good for your health if you, like, you know, fucking swig this thing dry and then chase it with water every day.

25:08It's not the easiest sell every time. They're like, fuck you, I don't care. So the gummies are good for that, in my opinion. Yeah. And, yeah, I mean, going back to the 20 grams and the offsetting of, you know, performance deteriorations, I do think it's basically offsetting kind of the deficiencies in ATP production, especially locally in the brain, and also kind of offsetting the pulling of resources away from like methylation support and whatnot in order to produce the endogenous creatine as well. These things can all be impactful to kind of like get you back to almost baseline. So if you're in a deteriorated state, being able to offset the performance decrements from an otherwise, you know, sleep deprived state or, you know, you're traveling or what have you.

25:56Like it can absolutely be super impactful. And the literature has shown that time and time again. What's interesting is that creatine in the 1990s was thought of like steroids. Yeah. I mean, it was really like frowned upon. Like, oh, my God, someone's taking creatine. They're cheating. It was really that's like how it was first introduced to the market. You'd have to hide it from your parents when you're a teenager. Really? Yeah. Well, at least when I was a teenager, it was kind of like it had a taboo still. It was like, you know, kind of like steroids light version. Well, it's because it works.

26:24Yeah. And parents, but they hear the stigma and the taboo associated. Like I heard creatine, they're selling it at the GNCs. Yeah. You know, better watch out for that one. Meanwhile, they had real steroids at GNC. Oh, yeah. The irony too. Yeah. You know, like fucking M1Ts over the counter from, you know, like some 19-year-old kid who's just like manning the counter and doesn't care and will like fuck your endocrine system up to sell it to you? 100%. I took some stuff called Mag10. Do you remember that? If I saw the ingredient deck, I'm sure it's just like some fucking run-of-the-mill M1T product or something.

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26:57Gain like 10 solid pounds of muscle in a month. And I bet your liver markers, not that you did blood work back then. Were destroyed. Yeah, like worse than if you took like injectable Trent even. Right, right. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, well, 100 % it killed my dick afterwards, too, when I got off of it. I was like, what's going on? And I was like, oh, this is a real steroid. Yeah, and it's like you're not giving the PCT from the guy at the counter. Meanwhile, I felt like a fucking gorilla when I was taking it. I felt so strong when I was taking it. I literally gained, I think it was like I was on it for five or six weeks, and I gained 10 solid pounds of muscle.

27:29The amount of people that have inadvertently gotten gynecomastia from those days when they were sold some irresponsible promo over the counter without any knowledge of what they were taking, and then had to just recover naturally with no support, it's a shame. Yeah, well, there was so much of that stuff, like werewolf blast. There was a dragon's dick. You could buy them, and they were just pills. They were just regular pills. The stimulants are crazy, too. Like ephedrine was over the counter. And so weird. But in Canada, for relatively recently even, it was still available over the counter, even though Canada is like super tight on regulation when it comes to the most weird stuff.

28:13Like when it comes to caffeine, you can't even have a can with 200 milligrams. It has to be like 180 or lower. Why exactly? I don't know. But that is a thing as well as limitations on basic amino acids. It's like tyrosine if it's more than like 10 milligrams or something. Amino acids. Yeah. That's hilarious. Yeah, it's crazy. Based on what? Nonsense. Oh, God. Fucking nanny state. But anyway, so ephedrine, for whatever reason, was still over-the-counter available in GNCs up until like a handful of years ago. And it was the best seller in GNCs and a lot of supplement stores, not just because it worked as like a bronchodilator, but also because people were buying it in bulk to make meth.

28:56I believe it. I took rip fuel once for jiu-jitsu right before jiu-jitsu and I had to stop in the middle of class I was like I gotta sit down. I pulled over to the side of my guys My fucking heart is beating over my chest and I was explaining I don't remember how many I took but I took some rip fuel I was like well, it's good to lift with I'll try it for jiu-jitsu It's fucking tip for something that like really taxes your cardiovascular system. It was horrendous resting her right at like 120 right away I was tired like right away like right away like we start rolling I was like, God, I'm fucking exhausted.

29:28My heart's beating out of my chest. But in your brain, you're like, this feels good. No, no. I knew I fucked up. I did it once, and I never did it again. If you're doing that sport, but for a guy who's going to the gym and is told, like, this is the shit, bro. If you're just lifting. Yeah. If you're just going for, like, max bench, that kind of shit. Anybody watching will know, you know, the original. Have you ever heard of Jack 3D? Yeah. I took that, too. Yeah, it was nuts. And what's crazy, too, is back then it was proprietary blends on a lot of the products, and it was still the norm with no education available, no YouTube to really tell you what to look for.

30:03Also, no oversight. Yeah. So these companies would basically sell you for, you know, 50 bucks a tub of, like, a powder-flavored tub of just, like, the stimulant. And then it was, like, all the other ingredients for vasodilation. They're like, fuck you. You're just getting DMA, bro. Yeah, you were just getting, like, straight meth. Yeah, yeah. It was crazy. There was so much. Those were the Wild West days of like GNCs and like local vitamin shops. Yeah. Because you could get stuff that really worked, like worked like something that's highly illegal. Yeah. And you could buy it with a credit card.

30:38And the sales tactics were just like so ruthless, but you couldn't really prove them otherwise. Right. It was always like a pit bull with like giant muscles on the cover of it with like lightning bolts. Yeah, yeah. it's funny too because some of these companies it's like now we're in the mix competing with them on shelves or whatever but I remember being like convinced back when I was a teenager by them oh you need you know Gakic, Lukic and Kreekic and this combo that cost 250 bucks and it's like you know literally uh pressed tablets of like glutamine or something at a dose that doesn't even help and they're telling me like this is what J.Color used to fucking preferably Olympia.

31:15Sure. Yeah. He's like, look at the before and after of Lee Priest. He lost like 50 pounds of pure fat and kept all his muscle from Celltech. Oh, that's the dirty thing about those bodybuilders back in the day is they couldn't admit that they were on gear. So they were all just telling you they were taking this stuff and then there would be spokespeople for it. And it's like, God, it was so deceptive. It was so creepy. And you would have to know someone at the gym who would, you know, go, oh, I want to be like Lee Haney. Like, no, that's not how he got that way. yeah you gotta take the real stuff he's this is what he's actually taking and so many people didn't think that those bodybuilders were on like hardcore steroids yeah a lot of yeah it's a deception at a mass scale for sure i don't the whole sport yeah the whole sport was just a complete like three card money game yeah it's crazy because now it's almost full circle because you know i was back then, you know, at least at the time when I didn't know any better, oh, you know, I guess this guy must be natural because he told me so or whatever.

32:18And it's like, I'm skeptical, but like, and you know, in hindsight, it's absolutely ridiculous. But now a lot of bodybuilders are pretty forthcoming because it's more normal to be transparent and also not mislead people and, you know, unethically sell things and just reality check people on the, what it's going to take to be at that level and is it the risk you want to you know subject yourself to because back in the day too it was like you didn't know if you had good genetics or not when it came to certain dosage responses so you would like always think the next guy is just taking more than you and it would result in guys unspokenly thinking this guy must just be taking 5x the amount of shit i'm on so i need to go to like five to ten grams of total gear per week now and you would just like that's what led to so many early deaths in bodybuilding too.

33:08I think there's another thing, another factor, is that the consequences of lying and getting caught now are huge. Because if you lose all credibility and people know that you're just a bullshit artist, and then they'll never trust you again. You have one chance to tell the truth forever. And the moment you violate that, you're always a liar. Yeah, and that's that's a giant fucking issue with with whether it's actors or anybody. Yeah, you know, like all these guys who prep for roles and they're talking about it now. Like I took an of our took this like Mickey Rourke did when he was talking about that movie The Wrestler.

33:46You know, I remember they were asking him on whatever talk show he was on. He's like I fucking took everything. What are you talking about? I took that guy was a pioneer of interviews for that kind of stuff. Well, he's a wild dude. He'll tell the truth. Yeah, but you have one chance to tell the truth forever. Yeah. You violate that, and you're always going to be a bullshit artist. Yeah, a guy who's pretty good about that now is Frank Grillo. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was doing some, like, men's health thing. And I have never seen men's health talk about steroids forthcomingly. Interesting. Yeah, so they had him on in a sit-down interview.

34:17And they were like, so, you know, what's it take to be at your— This recent? Yeah, within the last year. Right, right. If not months ago. Is this when he was talking about Anovar? Yeah, and he talked about his TRT protocol and kind of like the realities of how impactful it actually is and improving his performance and how it makes him feel, and he was just like pretty non-trigger-coated about it. Well, he's a good example because he was clean for a long time. Yeah. Like he had like very low testosterone because he was just going on willpower. He was really just working out on willpower. Action star lifts the lid on fitness recovery and the reality behind-the-scenes physiques.

34:54Frank Gill's 60 gets real about Hollywood steroid use. They all do it. Well, that is a fact. But he was not on anything for a long time, like deep into his 50s. And he got his testosterone taken. He's good friends with Brian Callen. And, you know, he got his testosterone taken. It was fucking nothing. He had like zero. But he was just very disciplined and working out hard. But he didn't look like he was on gear. He just looked like he was ripped. He was like shredded. He was like in really good shape because he trained every fucking day. And he was doing a lot of boxing. So a lot of like heavy caloric expenditure, a lot of like long rounds, hitting the bag, hitting mitts, doing sparring.

35:32You know, you're going to burn off so much calories. And also you're going to like your metabolism is going to be like completely jacked. Yeah. So then for him to talk about, okay, now I got on this and then I got on that. And this is the improvements in my sleep, my mood, everything got better. Because, you know, he's talking. This episode is brought to you by Aura Frames. Look, I get it. This time of year, everything goes by so quickly. And the next thing you know, you got two days left to find the perfect gift. Let me tell you what you're not going to do. You're not going to wait until the last minute panic and then settle for gift cards.

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37:40Your money, your move. He talked about it. It was like his testosterone when he got a test, it was super low. Yeah. Yeah. It's probably one of the few examples actually still to this day, though, of somebody being like really transparent. I actually saw The Rock talking about peptide use recently, which is kind of like a... Interesting. Yeah. Dipping his toes in the water. Yeah, exactly. He's lost a ton of weight, man. Oh, dude. Yeah. It's kind of crazy. Yeah, and there's a lot of speculation about if it's like a health thing or what, but that's tough to know because he just had the role where he gained the most size he ever has too.

38:17Right, right. But that had to be terrible for him. Oh, for sure. But it's like would you have subjected yourself to that if you knew? I don't know if he would have known, but you would have think proactively he would know how close he is to kind of like an issue. Probably pretty close, 50 years old and getting up to 300 pounds. Yeah, I just mean I think he probably had more preventative screening before that role to know he could even subject himself to it without dying because it's like a pretty risky endeavor to go become the biggest you've ever been at that age. So to then downsize after the theory is that he was literally about to die essentially.

38:55So that's why he lost so much weight now. And I'm thinking, I think maybe he's just like trying to take like a health phase and kind of like come down and wait for a bit. And he'll probably like crank it back up. Honestly, I think just this is pure speculation. I haven't talked to him about this. I think based on what he tried to do with the smashing machine. I think he's trying to win an Oscar and trying to be a real actor because he was really good in that movie Did you see it? Not yet. It's the best mixed martial arts movie ever. That's not saying a lot because they all suck But it is the it's the most accurate in terms of historical matches like they had all the matches like with the ego of attention all these different people that he fought that Mark Kerr actually fought and It's just a good movie.

39:45It's a really good movie like like Emily Blunt plays his crazy girlfriend and she's out of her fucking mind and to the point where like they're arguing right before he fights and you're getting anxiety watching like oh jesus fucking christ it's just such a crazy toxic relationship it is emily blunt right i didn't fuck that up did i that is she's fucking great in it too it's just a really good movie that i think would have gotten a lot more credit if it wasn't a mixed martial arts movie because i think you know mixed martial arts movie is like oh it's some fucking meathead like rah rah rah you know bullshit yeah movie but it's it's a very good movie and he is mark kerr oh he was so accurate so good yeah he just and not just the fighting stuff man the fighting stuff was great but the acting stuff like he played that guy and i know mark i was like fuck that's mark that's nuts it was so good it was a really good movie so So what I think he's doing is the same thing Bautista's doing, Dave Bautista.

40:48But inversed. Well, Dave Bautista lost a lot of weight too. Yeah, but I guess I mean like typically when actors are trying to get taken more seriously for more impactful like artistic creative roles, it's almost like the jacked meathead guy downsizes to do something more, you know, like, I don't know, artsy. Yeah. But like this is getting as yoked as possible in order to be the arts. Oh, yes. Right, right, right. Whereas Batista is like fully downsized, I think, now. Yeah, but what I'm saying is now, what he's doing now, I think he's probably trying to get different kinds of roles. Roles where like, I mean, have you ever met him?

41:24No. He looks like a superhero. He looks like a superhero. Like, we worked out together. He came to the gym and I brought a bunch of comedians and we worked out and hung out. Like, Tony Clinchcliffe was in his glory because, you know, he loves pro wrestling. We're all in the sauna together hanging out with the rock. It was the first time he probably still doesn't know that he uses gear. What's that? He probably still doesn't know that he uses gear. What do you mean? Hinchcliffe is just like. Oh, Hinchcliffe doesn't know that he knows he uses gear. I still remember the episode where he was dumbfounded that you and Chob thought that he was doing anything.

41:55He is locked into being a 12-year-old pro wrestling fan for the rest of his life. It's like a religious thing for him. It's like, you know, Mary was a virgin. She gave birth to Jesus. Like, I'm not kidding. Like he fucking loves pro wrestling so much that he is completely locked in. He's a good example, though, of like a reasonably in the know guy who has friends in the space, too. Like you and, you know, Shobb know about this stuff. And even he was like surprised that you guys thought that at the time. It's funny. It is funny when you think about it. So imagine just the average person. They probably, you know.

42:33Right. And also he's, you know, been very coy about it and saying actually not really coy, probably deceptive. Just like strategically perfect in his tact when it comes to avoiding it. Yes, that's the best way to describe it. Instead of saying, I've never taken any steroids, he's kind of like, look over there. Yeah, exactly. But everybody who knows knows. You know, it's one of those things. It's like you look at them and you're like, there's no way. There's no way. There's just no way. I think I can't imagine talking about peptides and putting the feelers out there would not eventually transition to like, you know.

43:08It was recommended to me by my doctor to be on hormone support or whatever. 100%. Yeah. I mean, you're kind of in that realm talking about it at this point. Just come out and say it. I've always just come out and said it. I don't see any problem with it. But I don't have that kind of a reputation. The problem with being the pro wrestling thing is like you're a role model for the youth. Especially a guy like that. He's a giant movie star. You don't want to be telling everybody you're on gear. He probably wasn't for like a big chunk of his early career. In his early career. Right. Yeah. His early career.

43:44I don't think he was. I guess the problem is when you're like, when I really became successful is when I just sauced my face off. Yeah. That's the thing. When he became a superhero. I mean, the first time I met him, he had cowboy boots on. So he's even taller. And he just looked like a fucking brick shithouse. I'm like, they're not even a real person. This isn't a real person. This is a superhero. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, yeah, it's crazy, dude. But I think he's still jacked. It's just proportionally relative to what he was. You know, it's kind of like anybody who used to be a bodybuilder or had significant amounts of size.

44:17Even me, like people in my videos are like, you know, you've lost everything. And it's like, okay, I'm not like non-existent anymore. I'm just like not a bodybuilder anymore. You know what I mean? So with him, it's like he's still yoked. He's like 230, 240 or whatever. Yeah. The thing is like super gearheads will always criticize. Oh, you look like a fucking chick now. They get crazy. They said that about Bautista, too. But he's like 240. I think he's just going to stop wearing the weird tapered Gucci suits. It just makes him look a little bit more slender. It's not complimentary to his physique.

44:49He's still jacked, too. Yeah, but it is complimentary if you didn't know what he used to look like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what's crazy. You look at him, the guy looks fucking great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, objectively, if you just look at it with no baseline. Pull up a photo of Dave Bautista now. And he's also just getting older. Like there's got to be some level where you get acceptance of like, okay, you're allowed to downsize so you don't die. Yeah, you could die. That's the thing. If you're pushing gear at that age. So there's, yeah, like look at Bautista on the right. You wouldn't say that's a small guy.

45:22You know? That's not a small guy. He's a big fucking dude, but he's just slimmer now. He looks like, if you saw an Emmett, like Alex Pereira. You don't think Alex Pereira's small. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, he's 240 pounds. Yeah, if he was bodybuilding for a while and then decided to convert to, you know, MMA. That's the thing. But he also got, like, that's what he looks like now. Like, that's not a small guy. Yeah, and he's like, I don't know how old, but I mean. That's 20, 25. He's got to be 50, 56, 56. So that's, he's fucking shredded. He looks fucking gigantic. Yeah. Yeah, I think he actually did a role recently where he bulked up.

45:59Yes. Now that I think about it. And he went to, like, it was, like, fat weight, too, which is crazy. Yeah, that was that... God, Glass Onion? Was that what it was called? There was some movie that he did. It was a really good movie. It was a movie where some billionaire had everybody come to his island for some crazy party and there was a murder. What was that called? That, I think, is Glass Onion. That was Glass Onion, right? He was huge for Glass Onion. He got gigantic. He got big for something else, too. But I think he was like playing I don't remember what his role was But playing some former athlete or Something along those lines Yeah he was housey dude It's weird when you get really big for a movie that sucks You know what I mean Or kill yourself for a movie that sucks Yeah I hope it did well Christian Bale did that for The Machinist He almost died 75 pounds he gained for Knock at the Cabin Oh that's what it is What was that movie?

46:58Show me what that looked like Oh, yeah. Knock at the Cabin. What was that movie? It's a horror movie on... I did not watch it. Wow. A horror movie? Huh. Do you watch horror movies? Oh, yeah. I love a good horror movie. He was 315? Yeah. Jesus. So now he's 240. Yeah, it's much more sustainable. Yeah, but that's like a weird weight. That's like, what the fuck did he eat to get that big? And again, he probably did that at like 52, which is fucking dangerous. Yeah. You probably got sleep apnea. You're all fucked up. Yeah. Charlize Theron did that too recently. She did it for Monster. I know. No, again.

47:36She did it again? Yeah. Don't do that. Close Charlize. Oh, God. That's real? Yeah. What is it for? I forget the movie. I just saw this photo the other day. I think some women, they're probably like a lady like her. Tully? Tully? I don't know what that is. Might not even be new. I just saw it. It's such a flex when you're a hot lady to get fat and gross. and like when she did Monster, she shaved her eyebrows off. Did you see the Sydney Sweeney like boxing? I didn't see that. Not that she got fat and gross, but like she gained some weight. Did she? Yeah. That movie got zero attention. The Christy Martin movie.

48:13Oh, yeah? Because it was like three decades past when anybody gave a shit. Oh. You know what I mean? I at least got the impression, I haven't watched it, so I could be way off base, that it was kind of like one of those artistic kind of like. Probably was. Look at my versatility in roles kind of thing. What did Sidney Sweeney look like in that movie? Did she gain weight? They might have put her in a fat suit. Well, they said she gained like 30 pounds of muscle or something, which is like the typical headline nonsense. Yeah, horseshit. But she definitely took it seriously and gained the weight that she needed to to look whatever the role was for sure.

48:47That's such a weird thing, the acting world. You have to change your – like Robert De Niro was the first guy to do it for Raging Bull. You remember Tom Cruise in... Tropic Thunder? Yeah. Yeah, but that was a fat suit. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was. Yeah, because they made his forearms fat. They shaved his head. He was fucking great in that movie. Sick movie, yeah. Oh, fuck, what a movie. That was the last bang before Woke. That was the last movie that you could ever do like that before Woke kicked in and essentially ruined great comedies. Because you couldn't go too far. You can't do that anymore. You just get in trouble.

49:23Yeah, it's like back then. if you were to ask, okay, you know, have a hit list of just like ready to laugh your ass off movies that are just like low effort. You don't have to think too much. You can just sit down and enjoy. There's a bunch of bangers from back then. But it's like nowadays, I don't even know what to go to. They don't happen anymore. Like the Farrelly Brothers movies, like Kingpin, fucking great movie. You know, there's so much something about Mary. There's so many of those like outrageous hysterical movies that it was funny i asked robert uh downey jr i was like i go you couldn't do blackface in a movie today he goes oh you could do it but what would happen afterwards is the big deal he got it in like like it's like the scene in a movie where the elevator door closes right before the monster gets to you he got there just in time and like it was perfect timing where he didn't suffer from it.

50:17No, yeah, it's crazy to see the delta and just like, I don't even know what to watch when I go on Netflix now. Well, with comedies, it's really fucking hard. It's really hard. The only thing that's really wild and free is stand-up comedy. Like, to do a comedy movie and just go full Tropic Thunder is almost impossible today. But if somebody did it, if somebody just self-financed Oh my god, it would fucking kill who'd make so much money and then open up the floodgates because people still want that You know they still look like it's it's not that you agree with everything these people are saying and doing It's comedy like I don't agree with John Wick killing everybody You know what I mean?

51:01Like but he's not really killing everybody like it's a fucking movie And it used to be that you knew that when you went into these movies before everybody was like looking for everything to potentially be offended by Yeah. It's just like ruined everything. What do you watch now? I don't watch comedies anymore. But like just in general, do you have any like kind of just like low barrier? Just I sit down and turn my brain off. Oh, there's a lot of great stuff. You know what I watched last night, Jamie? You recommended Pluribus. Is that what it's called? I only watched the first episode. Holy shit.

51:33What a weird show, right? Holy shit is it good. That's right up your alley. Holy shit is it good. It's a new Apple show. And I don't want to give away too much, but it has something to do with aliens. And aliens send a transmission to Earth and there's this insane impact on society. But it's like fucking total left field movie. You don't see it coming. It's crazy. Or not movie, television show. And again, like Jamie, I've only seen the first episode. But it's great. It's like, holy shit. He's giving you anxiety. It's so good. Did you guys watch, what was that other Apple show that was really good?

52:12It was like in an office setting. I can't believe I'm forgetting that. Severance. Yeah. Yeah. Did you guys watch that? Severance was great, especially the first episode or the first season. The first season was great. After a while, they get a little weird because you're running this very strange game that you're doing. These people remember and don't remember, and then you fuck him with the guy's head so he can remember. Yeah. What about Stranger Things and It? Those are two that my girlfriend has me watching right now. I watched the first episode of Stranger Things last night as well. Oh, yeah.

52:44Or yesterday as well. That was great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's – dude, it's kind of crazy how much time is between these seasons now. It's like you finish – I almost like don't want to commit to something because it's like, well, if I like it, fuck you to me. You know? Two years from now. Fuck you for the next three years for the next season. Game of Thrones. It's a great example of that. Oh, dude. House of Dragon. Like, good luck seeing the next season, bro. Well, not only that, like, unfortunately with House of Dragons, it's got to follow Game of Thrones, which is like one of the best series of all time.

53:14And the characters just aren't as compelling for whatever reason. And so I don't know who the fuck anybody is. So the new season starts. I'm like, who's that? Yeah. And maybe I just have a, like, monkey brain, but I'm watching. I'm like, I didn't see a dragon the whole fucking episode. I need a dragon. I feel ripped off. Yeah, I need a dragon. I need that dragon to fucking kill somebody. I need to burn somebody alive. yeah it's uh there's a lot of great shows now but but again it you could own it's very hard to make a great comedy you can make a great like mindless entertainment like fun show slow horses that's a great show that's uh is that an apple show i believe it is yeah that's another apple show with gary oldman it's a spy uh um m5 or m i what is it mi5 what do they call themselves MI5 the numbers of the person I think it's whatever I don't know it's a spy show British spy show that's a really good show it is MI5 yeah I mean there's a lot of great shows to watch like there's I think it's probably the best time ever for content if you just want to sit and be entertained it's probably the best time ever because of streaming because streaming instead of you know one episode you're watching a show and it takes place over an hour and then the next episode is totally different, a totally different subject line, different story.

54:35No, it's like the thing you get locked into these characters. Like Sopranos, I think, was like the first one to really do that excellently and drag it out over, you know, many, many seasons. We have this like running storyline. Yeah, yeah. I'm kind of just like tuned out of TV at this point. I just watch what my girlfriend wants to watch and Stranger Things and It is the thing right now. Yeah, I watched the new It show. Yeah. I watched the first episode of that, too. That looks great. It's, like, oddly overlapping with The Stranger Things. I feel like I'm kind of watching the same show almost.

55:10Kind of. Like, obviously totally different overall stories, but, like, you know, you have kids and these kind of, like. And evil things. And I don't want to, like, wreck an episode, but they mention It, not specifically It, but a story about, like, an extraterrestrial evil being called It in a Stranger Things episode. I'm like, this is a weird fucking reference for these being at the same time right now. Yeah. Well, they probably didn't plan that out, right? Yeah. I don't know, man. What is it called? Welcome to Derry? Is that what it's called? Yeah. The new one? But it's good. That's good, too.

55:44The release date scheduling makes absolutely no sense for Stranger Things, too. It's like in batches, and the next batch is coming out on Christmas. And then the final one is New Year's. New Year's? It's like the exact times you probably can't bang out all the episodes, or you're going You're going to have to force your family to sit there with you. High school kids can, though. What's that? That's a high school kids can. Yeah, high school kids can. It's like their vacations. Well, I think Stranger Things is so big, they could fucking make it so you could only watch it at 3 o 'clock in the morning and it would still get 30 million views.

56:12But, like, just such a weird choice. I don't know. Well, it's just weird that it takes so long to make one of those damn things that you have to wait three years in between seasons. And then you have these kids that are playing 15-year-olds, and now they're fucking 30. Yeah. It's kind of weird. You can tell some of them. It's like, how do we make you look as young as possible? Yeah. You give them goofy haircuts. And then there's also like, spoiler alert, there's some computer generated imaging. So they're using some sort of an AI program to make scenes with the kids when they were young. Yeah.

56:47And you kind of can tell, but you kind of can't tell. It's like really good. Yeah. Yeah. Nowadays, it's like you feel like you just AI generate the whole thing. Yeah. Well, it's getting close. You know, it's getting to the point where, you know, there's no excuse for waiting three years because you could have AI generate scripts and do it in an hour. What about F1? Are you guys following it at all right now? The show or the actual racing? No, just the actual racing. I went to the F1 that was in Austin. It was amazing. This year? Yeah. Okay. It's awesome. For, I think right now, it's the first time in the last 15 years they've had three drivers coming down to the final race to win the championship between them.

57:30And the final race is this weekend. Oh, really? Yeah. Where is it? I think it's in Abu Dhabi. I don't know. That might have been the race that just happened. But it was nuts, dude. Because right now you had McLaren, who was like a shoe-in to have their main driver, or at least the guy who was in the lead. take it, but they're refusing to favor one over the other, which is a typical strategy for whoever's in the lead. You'll have the other one kind of like block people for them to make sure they win the driver's championship. They're refusing to do that? Yeah, they're like making sure they can have equal opportunities to win, but the net result might now be none of them win and a guy from Red Bull takes the thing.

58:08Oh, that's crazy. Is it because the drivers aren't willing to do that? I guess, but also just lack of enforcement from the pit boss, like team guy, who's like supposed to be enforcing team principles and whatnot. It is kind of funky that that's how you win. You have someone, it's a team game, but it's not. There's team-generated points between the two drivers, which can result in the team championship, but the thing that most people actually care about is who's the best driver in the world, and that will be coming down to one person, even if it's a guy from a team that won the thing they're still competing against each other and sometimes they can get pretty reckless where they're you know one is not willing to compromise and he'll like blow the whole thing up to make sure that he has the best opportunity understandably but it's also like you guys are getting paid tens of millions of dollars maybe you should listen to your fucking This is an ad for BetterHelp.

59:05The holidays come with a lot of traditions, gathering with family, cooking those once-a-year recipes, and leaning into the little rituals that bring everyone together. That's something I always look forward to. But there's another tradition I think we should all start doing during the holidays, and that's taking some time for ourselves. This season, you do so many things for the other people in your life. You plan get-togethers around everyone's schedule. You spend hours picking out the right gifts and cooking the right food. but you also deserve just as much attention. Otherwise, you'll burn yourself out.

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1:00:21Yeah, I get it. But then, again, if you're on another team, you're like, well, this is kind of bullshit because this guy didn't really win the race. He won the race because his friends blocked everybody. Yeah, fair enough. But, I mean, like, part of it is kind of like that. That's, like, part of the strategy. Oh, I get it. I get it. But maybe we should abandon that strategy because if it is a race. Yeah. I guess it's just problematic because it's so bandwidth intensive, too, to manage the two drivers that if they're equally trying to win and only one is more likely to, what may very well happen on this weekend is they both don't win.

1:01:00Interesting. Yeah. I got a tour of the McLaren pit last year, and they showed me all the different technology that's involved, and they gave me a rundown of how much engineering is involved in these things and explained everything. It's crazy. They're all just trying to shave tenths of seconds out of turns, and then it all accumulates over the course of the race. Yeah, it's pretty psychotic when you look at what the differential is and kind of like what really separates these guys. It's often just like minuscule amounts and just like the littlest mistake. What are those guys on? That's what I want to know.

1:01:40Do they test them? They are tested, but not to the rigor of like an Olympic. Do they test them for a gorilla mine? I'm sure they're probably using it. This is probably a good thing for them to take. Probably for something that's not banned, yeah. Is any of this stuff banned, do you think, in formula one? No, none of it. This is all very straight-edge, really tried-and-true neutropics that work through endogenous pathways or things that otherwise backfill neurotransmitters, similar to the creatine deficiency that we talked about. If you backfill it, you can otherwise have a readily available source of phosphocreatine to offset ATP deficits, It's L-tyrosine, stuff like that, similar just in regards to dopamine, for example.

1:02:27I'm an hour in, and I feel it. It's legit. Yeah, it's very legit. And again, it's very delicious, so congratulations on that. Oh, thank you. Those guys lose a ton of weight, too, during those races. Oh, dude, so much water loss. Yeah, because you're fucking hot as shit in those suits so you don't burn alive if you crash. Yeah, so new different strategies like hyperhydration, using things like liquid glycerol could be impactful to retain more water. Do they wear a diaper? I don't know. How long is the race? It could be, I think it depends, but it's like upwards of an hour, an hour and a half. Yeah, just piss yourself.

1:03:02Yeah. Yeah, just sit in your own pee for an hour and a half. Yeah, you would have to. I would imagine with that kind of money on the line, just fucking let it go, baby. Yeah, I don't even know if you'd have to, though, if you're just perspiring like a motherfucker. You might not. They come out drenched. Right. Yeah, and they've lost tons of weight. Right, yeah. But sometimes in the sauna I have to pee. Oh, yeah. Yeah, sometimes I'm like 15 minutes into a sauna session. I'm like, God damn it, I can't hold it. So I've got to open the door and go out and piss outside and then climb back in again.

1:03:31Have you ever tried glycerol for hyperhydration? No. What is that? It's just like straight up glycerol. It's like a sugar, but it also has a hyperhydrating effect that you can hold upwards of an extra pound of body water if you have it as a supplement. So some endurance athletes will use it before events in order to retain more water in a way that is not – it enhances like thermal regulation, your ability to tolerate stress. You don't lose as much – you don't dehydrate as fast. There's a lot of upsides for its kind of like unique application. Maybe even avoiding pissing at nighttime could be used.

1:04:07Really? Potentially, yeah. Oh, that would help because I always have to pee. Yeah. One thing that helps me is sauna before bed though. So sauna before bed, I can generally sleep through the night. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I'll do like a session about an hour before I go to sleep and no water after that. Oh, yeah. That usually does it. Yeah. If you do a water cutoff, that's like pretty regimented. It's probably the best overall strategy. As long as you make sure you hydrate in the morning. So I'm pretty diligent about that. First step in the morning, amino acids with water. I do that 99 % of the time, like first thing, before coffee, before anything.

1:04:44Does he put electrolytes in it? Yeah. Yeah. I take Gary Brecka's stuff. It's called Perfect Aminos. It's aminos and electrolytes. I get that in first thing in the morning. Just, you know, get it out of the way. And I didn't used to for the longest time. I would just hit the gym right away and just drink water when I was in there. But I feel a difference. What about, I thought step one was cold plunge. Yeah, it depends. I haven't cold plunged in the last three weeks because I got some stem cells. and I'm still sauna-ing. So it seems like there's a lot of controversy about this in terms of what you should and shouldn't do post-stem cell injection.

1:05:27I have a very minor Achilles tear. When I was elk hunting in September, I twisted my ankle pretty bad and I didn't think anything of it. I stopped limping after like 15 or 20 minutes and I was like, I think I'm okay. and uh i have and i was wearing uh at the time i was wearing very light boots they're like you know um just a real light boot that you wouldn't do for heavy mountain trekking and we did some steep elevation and then the real problem is going down and you're you know when you're going down like several thousand feet over the course of like an hour yeah it's fucking brutal and i i twisted one of my ankles and then the next day i put on a much higher more rigid boot with great ankle support and i was fine for the rest of the trip but then that's the fucking worst when you just gotta like stare at the ground the entire time you're walking because the littlest off step you just roll your ankle or not only that you go down yeah yeah you know you could die um it's we were in pretty steep country in utah but uh interestingly i didn't notice anything was wrong until i'd get into a push-up position, which is weird.

1:06:42So when, you know, I do 100 push-ups every morning, 100 push-ups, 100 bodyweight squats. That's my warm-up before I do anything. And so when I got into like a high push-up position with like my butt up in the air, it's a lot of stretching on the Achilles. And my left Achilles was fucking killing me, like sharp pain. I was like, fuck, this hurts. And I thought maybe it needs to stretch out. So I did something like jump rope. Doesn't bother me. Jump rope doesn't bother me. Nothing else bothers me. But that position bothered me, and it was bothering me for like five weeks. And I was like, all right, I've got to get this looked at because it seems like it might be getting worse every time I do that.

1:07:17And so I got it scanned, and there's a minor tear in my Achilles. And Achilles tears are a fucking nightmare. You know, if you blow out your Achilles, that's a nightmare. It's a long rehabilitation process. Blood flow to the area is pretty good. Especially at 58. Yeah. It's a fucking – that's a long recovery. It's like I'm looking at a year before I could do everything again. Then you lose all your gains, all your cardio, everything. You can't move right. You're fucked. So I got a stem cell shot in there. And there's a lot of debate about when you should be able to cold plunge after stem cells.

1:07:55And a lot of the literature seems to say three months. It doesn't seem to think sauna, there's more indication that sauna is probably therapeutically beneficial for the stem cells because the idea is that these stem cells are still in the area trying to heal the tissue. When you cold plunge, you kill them. But when you're doing sauna, you're increasing blood flow and it might help them. So what they said is like I wouldn't do anything for a couple weeks. Nothing. And then after that, just sauna for a while. So I haven't done a cold plunge in over a month. Seems excessive. I'm scared to go back in because I was so used to it.

1:08:43You've got to get over the hurdle again. I'm so scared. Every time I do it, I almost don't do it. Every fucking time I do it, I almost don't do it. So like for the past month, it's just been get up and just work out and then sauna afterwards. What's the rehab stack? Is it any different than what you were already doing? BBC 157, TB 500, that's it. It's definitely improved. BBC local in the Achilles? Yeah, yeah, yeah, right there. Or you just pinch the sub-Q area and kind of like that? I shove it right in there. I think local is the way to go. I've done it subcutaneously, like in the side and love handles.

1:09:20It doesn't have the same effect. Yeah, if you can get it to the area, it's like, why not? Yeah, I think BPC-157 locally is the way to go. But it's definitely getting a lot better. It doesn't hurt at all anymore. I'm just making sure it fully heals up. Yeah, interesting note on kind of like the hormone support stuff. This past month, the FDA actually removed most of the black box warnings off of women's HRT products. Yes, yes. Pretty amazing. Yeah, really amazing because so many women were lied to for so long. They were told that there's all these negative effects of supplementing your hormones.

1:09:59But my God, how many fucking people just lost quality of life for fucking nothing, for no science at all? It's just complete horseshit. But there's so much bad fucking science out there, man. It's a real problem. It's hot as shit in here. There's so much bad science out there, man. It almost gets to a point where you almost have to look at things through the lens of, does this sound like nonsense? Yeah. Well, and then where do you go? Like, who do you trust? You know, unless you're well-versed in who the respectable online people are. Yeah. Like, you might see, you know, however many studies that say fill in the blank exotic compound is, like, totally ineffective.

1:10:40And it's like, who was it tested on? For how long? What was the dosage? Right. Like it might be a completely useless interpretation for your specific nuanced scenario. And if you hear hordes of anecdotes from everyone in your circle you trust who actually knows what they're talking about, has been in the trenches, knows their body well, you can't really ignore that. What was the narrative about female hormones and why did they do that for so long? Do you know? So I think it was in the 90s, the Women's Health Initiative were assessing the viability and safety profile of hormone replacement therapy.

1:11:17And I might butcher this a little bit, but in general, the overall context is relatively accurate, I'm sure. And it was like of a thousand women or something, they tested HRT. I'm going to say HRT, I put in air quotes because like - Estrogen. Not even like human bioidentical estrogen. It was like equine horse piss derived estrogens. Horse piss? Yeah. For real? Yeah. So it was like literally the most synthetic, you know, animal derived shitty estrogen that is not bioidentical at all. And also a synthetic progestin that is not bioidentical to progesterone. It's just like a progestin analog, essentially, that fulfills activity at the receptor, but is otherwise like, you know, the equivalent of putting you on like a microdose of nandrolone or a microdose of, you know, fill in the blank progestin derived compound or 19-nor derived compound that facilitates progestogenic activity, but just is not progesterone.

1:12:16So it's like to try and say, you know, this horse piss derived estrogen formula and the synthetic progestin we apply to these women is the equivalent of you having been on what you would otherwise produce as a young, healthy, vibrant woman from a bioidentical estradiol and progesterone perspective, simply not accurate. But that's like essentially the comparison that they made and, you know, presented it as such. And the result was a relative risk increase of breast cancer incidence, I believe, to the tune of like one of a thousand women. And the absolute number was like three of a thousand. The placebo arm had breast cancer incidence and then I think four out of a thousand had breast cancer.

1:13:00So then the media ran with a 26 percent increase in risk. Oh, so everybody got panicky. Yeah. And I might be misinterpreting one or two varials, but high level, that's essentially what it was. And it caused mass hysteria and panic and basically dictated the facilitation of black box warnings being put on hormone therapies. So the most aggressive FDA warning that shows basically any clinician that's looking at it or anybody who's going to take the risk of using it. this is the most dangerous drug you could use with the highest risk of like lethal side effects potential. And then on top of that, it just like wasn't representative of what is actual replacement therapy with what is the hormone you would be producing naturally.

1:13:44So for years, we went thinking, oh, it's going to cause clotting issues. It's going to cause cancer. It's going to do this. It's going to do that. And only in the most nuanced edge case scenarios is it justified because, you know, that person just absolutely has a quality of life. Deterguration is so significant that it's worth it to take the risk to use or hormone replacement therapy. And it's like now similar to some of the like common sense interpretation of things. Like this doesn't make sense. Like look at all this literature showing the cardioprotective effects, showing the neuroprotective effects, showing the bone support and integrity.

1:14:17Look at what you lose if you don't take these hormones. Like you're essentially giving yourself a worse quality of life inevitably and deteriorating your health unquestionably. Like with men, there is some semblance of residual activity you can maintain and some men maintain vibrant, you know, reasonable testosterone production until old age. But with women, it's kind of like. This episode is brought to you by Blinds.com. Listen, nothing ruins game day like sun blasting through your windows and glare on the big screen. That is where blinds.com comes in clutch. Here's the deal. Forget the old school way of buying window treatments.

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1:16:27Big flavor, zero sugar, that same monster energy kick. But Ultra didn't stop there. There's a whole lineup now. Vice Guava, Blue Hawaiian, and the new Wild Passion. My favorite is Strawberry Dreams. It's smooth and sweet with a touch of tart strawberry flavor. And if you're loyal to the white can, cool. Just know that you've got options. Visit monsterenergy.com to learn more. Like right when the lights shut off. Yeah. Drops off a cliff. Yeah. It's interesting how the initial narratives get stuck in the public zeitgeist forever. Like the initial narrative for testosterone replacement was you can get testicular cancer, prostate cancer.

1:17:10And it was just so many people like, I don't want to mess around with testosterone replacement because I can get cancer. And then Brigham Bueller explained that study and explained the real results of that study. And it's like it didn't show that anybody got prostate cancer from it. It's just not true. Yeah. Yeah, and it's like even the mechanism by which they argue it would cause it doesn't even make mechanistic sense because it's like the only way you're going to increase the prostate growth is via bringing. And it's like, of course, when you use hormones that are androgens, like you're going to grow tissues that they're exposed to, but it doesn't mean it's a bad thing necessarily.

1:17:47And if you're a hypogonadal male who has low T and it goes up to just the threshold of barely acceptable, that's where the growth essentially stops. And if you go beyond that into like medium normal, high normal, even super physiologic territory, your prostate doesn't linearly grow in exposure. Otherwise, bodybuilders would have massive prostates like busting out of their bodies. Giant dicks. Imagine that. We wish. Didn't have it. Well, how come it grows in large clitorises in women? Because the physiology is essentially interchangeable in that you could have gone in any direction dependent on your exposure to these hormones.

1:18:26Oh, right. XY. Yeah, so if a man exposes himself to significant amounts of estrogen and has hormone deprivation, there are some irreversible anatomical changes because they've already matured that will not go away. But with women, it's like the inverse, and you could otherwise get closer to that extreme scenario where once your voice box gets to a certain anatomical development, you can't necessarily go back to your high-pitched feminine voice. with detransitioners, they keep that voice forever. And the real problem is it never even becomes a man voice. It just becomes weird. You know what I mean?

1:19:07Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like the in-between. Trans men never develop a voice like, you know, Isaac Hayes. Yeah, that's one of the tough things with HRT, too, is like as much as I think it's so amazing that it's being educated about and there's widespread attention being brought to the importance of it, There's also the cowboy docs who almost go to the hyper extreme of optimization and are putting women on aggressive dosages of testosterone saying, you've been lied to, this is actually what you need to feel good. And for a woman who's been asexual for years and feels, has no energy and they are told this guy is the cutting edge doc who everyone sees, they will probably trust his guidance.

1:19:51And as early as before I started Merrick Health, which is my company, my mom was getting hormone therapy guidance from a doc who was relatively well-respected. And the dose he put her on of testosterone was so aggressive that her voice was changing within weeks. Wow. And I had to, like, cut the cord on it. I was like, what the hell is this? And her testosterone levels were, like, in the, like, 300s plus. Whoa. Yeah. So like you're essentially low, normal, healthy male territory. Not like actually, but like on a clinical reference range. And absolutely potential for masculinization. Yeah. And also horny as fuck.

1:20:28Potentially. Yeah. But it's like you didn't need to go there probably to get to horny as fuck. My wife has a friend who got on it and she's a British lady and she had a very funny friend. She goes, his stuff makes me feel like a bloke. She goes, I'm horny like a bloke. Yeah. Yeah. And testosterone can be helpful in women for sure. And it's an overlooked, uh, hormone that is absolutely important in women, just the same as it is in men. It's just like, you got to kind of know what you're getting yourself into too, when it comes to like, what is reasonable for a doctor to tell you you need and at what like concentrations you should expect, you know, blood level targets to be.

1:21:08Cause if you just go in blind, you might end up with the most exotic, you know, like Beverly Hills doc who thinks you should be on like the craziest cocktail ever because he knows you're going to feel it and respond really, really well immediately, but then also might just like fuck you up permanently. Well, this is also the problem with transitioners. When you're becoming a trans man, right, the initial impact is alleviation of anxiety and euphoria. You start feeling great. because that's what testosterone does for you. It doesn't mean you're supposed to have that. Your body's going, what the fuck is this?

1:21:47And now you're, you know, essentially you're changing the whole cocktail of your body and you're, you know, and you're going to give permanent changes that if you make a decision when you're 14, 15 years old, they put you on this stuff. Those detransitioners are some of the saddest stories, man, because they've become sterile. They'll never have children and, you know, and they lose their tits because they go to a doctor that thinks you should have your memory glands chopped off when you're 15. It's fucking – we're in the weirdest of times with all this stuff because it's like what gets accepted and not accepted and what – again, like we were talking about the zeitgeist when a thought gets out there and then it's very difficult to move away from that.

1:22:30It's like, oh, you're affirming your true self. Like, really? With synthetic hormones that didn't exist in your body before, that's your true self? Yeah. Are you fucking sure? It sounds like this might be a social contagion that is like sweeping through the land. And one of the things that's really interesting is the drop-off of kids identifying as trans is it coincides directly with Elon buying Twitter. Oh, wow. Yeah. Like immediately when you could, because you used to not be able to talk about it. You still literally, if you, if you dead name someone from Twitter, meaning like if you changed your name to Dominique and I called you Derek, I could get banned from Twitter for life forever.

1:23:14That's great. Just by using your old name. Like if I called Bruce, Caitlyn Jenner Bruce, I would get banned from Twitter for life. Damn. Because it's nuts. Yeah. But it's like this very bizarre social contagion, this weird mind virus that went through the whole country. And everybody just signed up for it. And no one wanted to be a bigot. So like, oh, I don't want to be a bigot. Yeah. I think as much as I think access to drugs is super like you should have the full liberty to do whatever you want. That's where the importance of educating yourself is so critical because you really don't know what you're subjecting yourself to.

1:23:50If you have an immature brain too, you have not even had full frontal lobe development to try and think you're going to make a sound decision with how you're going to impact your lifelong physiology. It's like probably. You can't even have a tattoo. It's not even legal to get a tattoo and get your penis removed. It's fucking crazy. It's fucking crazy. Oh, they know. Some people know as early as three. I've had conversations with people on this podcast. I have friends that have trans kids and they knew right away. Like, are you sure they didn't have a fucking insane mother and a gay child? Because that might be what was going on.

1:24:23Yeah. And now this gay child will never have an orgasm again because you've convinced them they're not a gay child, that they're a woman, which is, in fact, completely homophobic. Yeah. Yeah, interesting extreme of the scenario, but maybe on the opposite is guys who are in adolescence who are so hyper-educated that they use the knowledge to biohack their development into becoming as maximally tall and, like, infrastructurally sound as adults as possible. Right, right, right. And that's a really interesting predicament because it's like any like reasonably ethical doctor will be like, there's no fucking way I'm touching that like case of any overseeing anybody's care who was doing that kind of thing.

1:25:04I was watching a podcast about this where this guy was talking about his son and he's short and his son is short. And his son's friends were also short and their parents got the kid on growth when they were and they grew like a lot bigger than the parents. Yeah. Which is Alexander Karelin. Do you know Corellon's story? They call him the experiment. He's the freakiest wrestler that has ever existed. I know who it is, but I didn't know that specifically it was in adolescence that he was subjected to. Well, this is speculation on my part. Have you seen my photo that I have out in the gym? It's the photo that I put up to remind myself of what a pussy I really am.

1:25:41Is that when he's about to fucking toss that dude? He's fucking hoisting that picture, that one. Yeah, it's a famous one. That guy was 300 fucking pounds and moved like a cat. Like unbelievably mobile and flexible and had like an insane record. I think it was like 280 and one or 280 and two. Like fucking insane. Like one of the most dominant wrestlers of all time. But there's, they call him, in Russia they would call him the experiment. Yeah. And you see his parents. His parents are like 5 '5", 5 '7". Like small people. And he's this fucking behemoth of a person. And of course, the Soviet doping program is legendary.

1:26:20The movie Icarus highlights that, you know, but everybody knew about that. The Eastern Bloc weightlifters, the females, they set records that were never broken again. These women completely became men. You know, like there's a lot of evidence that they were doing that to their athletes. The fact that they wouldn't do it to their most dominant wrestler in the history of the fucking sport. And the guy who was the absolute biggest freak in the history of wrestling. There was nobody like that guy. Yeah, we should talk about some of those Russian drugs. I heard you bring up trimtazinine with somebody the other day.

1:26:53But before that, have you ever heard of the Lionel Messi story? No. Okay, so did you know that he was destined to be a dwarf if he didn't get on huge amounts of growth hormone? Really? Yeah, so he got supplied with pharmaceutical growth hormone by the team that was trying to get him to basically be with them. Well, he's a small guy as it is, right? Yeah. So he grew to what is otherwise an acceptable adult height, but he otherwise was destined to be literally a dwarf, whatever the socially acceptable term is. Wow. Yeah. So they either paid for his pharmaceutical growth hormone and got it for him, paid for it, made sure he was taking it, or he didn't become the greatest, some argue, the football player of all time.

1:27:38Well, it's also you have to take into consideration, like, how much of an effect did that have on his performance? Because, like, that guy can do things that no one else can do. Well, he definitely wouldn't have grown to the height he is. But it's not just the height. It's the explosive movement, his ability to change direction, like, better than anybody. The infrastructure is obviously supporting of it. I don't necessarily know. It would be impossible to, like, really quantify that there's no, like, you know, A-B test of it. Right. Right. There's no placebo-controlled trial. But you know, if he didn't do it, he would not be even playing.

1:28:14Wow. Yeah. I did not know that. Yeah, it's probably one of the most overlooked but wild cases of a professional athlete who, like, needed to go, like, full board to the tits when it comes to— How old was he when they did that to him? A young teen, if not a child. Seeing 11 years old? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. It was like you either take this at the dose that is going to push you to maximal IGF-1 output territory and we get you to as high of maturation as possible or you're not going to be a professional player. How tall is Messi now? 5 '7". Wow. Yeah. That's crazy. You know, I told you the Yoel Romero story, right?

1:28:56Probably. Yoel Romero is the biggest athletic freak I've ever seen in my life. And I've seen a lot of athletic freaks. Yeah. Yoel Romero, when he, I believe it was in Australia, he was fighting. And after the fight, goes to a doctor, get checked up. He had a fractured orbital. He had a rough fight. The doctor examines him and then says to the UFC, where did you get this guy? Oh, yeah. Did I tell you this? Yeah. And they go, hey, he's great, right? He goes, no, no, no. His tendons and his eyes are three times the size of a normal person. Oh, right, right, right. They said his orbital bone is already healing.

1:29:34Crazy. Like, what did they do to him? Because he was on the Cuban Olympic program. Yeah. You know, and the way he talks about it, like the program was like so regimented. In fact, they had tiers of athletes and the highest tier ate three times a day. The tier below that ate two times a day. So it motivated you literally to get more food to compete. And you're competing with these guys that their entire life is wrestling. That is everything and it literally can feed their family It's a matter of whether or not their family gets food whether it changes your social status and he goes and because of that you'll be Gama machine.

1:30:13That's how you're saying it. I could do a good yo-el you'll be Gama machine and He's the biggest freak of all time. In fact, everybody who fights him says hitting him hurts Yeah, yeah Yeah, what Robert Whitaker said is like hitting metal. He goes, dude, he's like, you hit the guy. He doesn't feel like a normal person. He goes, it's like you're hitting metal. He's still competing, but in, was it one? Dirty boxing. His dirty boxing was his latest one. Oh, my goodness. He's almost 50. He's jacked as fuck. Now he's a heavyweight, full six-pack, almost 50 years old, fucking gigantic. I mean, now he's got to be geared up.

1:30:55I mean, I would imagine because he's in these like fringe leagues that, you know, you'd think their drug test is a fucking multiple choice. What do you want? I'm on Jesus. He had that famous speech. He was saying, don't forget about Jesus. He goes, don't forget Jesus. And everybody thought he was saying, no, gay Jesus is not gay. Oh, my God. And so they thought he was homophobic. And he's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, forget Jesus. But he was saying, don't forget Jesus. Like, Jesus is important. And everybody was like, oh, my God, Yoel Romero used his platform to say homophobic things after a fight.

1:31:33Like, no, he can't speak English very well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? And he's religious. I feel like, yeah, that guy, he, I always felt like if he just kind of, like, threw himself into the fire more, he could just, like, crush it. The problem is cardio. When you're carrying around that much weight, you know, first of all, wrestling, His wrestling was above and beyond anybody else. But he would just slug when he didn't need to. Well, they get in love with knocking people out, first of all. And that guy's explosive capacity was—he knocked out Chris Weidman, one of the fucking scariest flying knees I've ever seen in my life.

1:32:08It was a great fight up until the moment they put Chris Weidman into the shadow realm. But he hit him with this flying knee. Just explode. He lulls you. So what Israel looks like he's tired or whatever. Then he jumps on you. And his ability to close the distance is so – like you think about wrestlers. Did you see Bo Nichols' last knockout? He knocked out Adolfo Vieira with a head kick. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was spectacular. But Bo Nichols, an elite wrestler, like a top-shelf blue-chip wrestler. And one of the things that wrestlers have is this ability to close distance because they're on the outside and they can just shoot doubles.

1:32:47So that explosion naturally lends itself to closing the distance and striking because, you know, it's the same kind of thing. If you develop good striking and Adolfo Vieira, who's like fucking super jacked, but he's a gi jiu jitsu guy. Gi jiu jitsu is all about strength and control technique as well. But it's a tight game. It's not a game of like jumping, moving across distance quick. It's a game of they're gripping each other. And then, you know, it's a lot about strength and it's a lot about technique, but it's not about closing distance. So Rodolfo Vieira is like a plodding, like really super jack guy.

1:33:24And Bo Nichols just lied on his feet, moving on the outside and just closing distance, cracking him, getting out. And and he hits him with this fucking bomb head kick and puts him to sleep. But it's that that that ability to close the distance. Nobody did that better than Yoel. Yoel was the best at that because he's just fucking unbelievable. unbelievable athlete and with izzy he fought ezreal adesanya and izzy said dude i had to stay on the outside with that guy i could not just go after him because the counters would come so fast he yoel caught him with a big left hand early in the fight and he was like oh well fuck this he's like we're gonna make this a boring fight yeah i'm just gonna win a decision on this motherfucker because it's just the consequences of being too close to him where he can do that It's just you have to fight a technical fight with that guy to stay on the outside pick at him move a lot Don't set don't set your feet ever never be in a place where he can just like Because he can just launch on you and blast you yeah the on the flip side of that the Leaping in the middleweight of Chemaev ruthless to watch that was like the most painful fight.

1:34:36I've seen recently Oh, yeah. The trick is duplicy fight. Yeah. Well, that's just levels and levels above everyone else. Just like closing distance even when you know what's about to come. Can't stop it. Yeah. Once he gets his hands on you, you're fucked. There's something about that kind of wrestling from the Chechens and the Dagestanis and maybe even him more than any of the other ones. It's just so aggressive. And he chains things together so well. And if you're not training with guys like that, like Schaub told me that he went to see Chmaev when Chmaev is in training camp for Dreyka's Duplessy.

1:35:12And he called me up. He goes, dude, listen to me. He goes, like, Schaub was a top 10 UFC heavyweight. He's been around forever. You know, he was in camp with George St. Pierre when George St. Pierre was in his prime. Nate Marquardt was in his prime. He's like, dude, I've never seen nothing like this. He goes, they were bringing in world-class wrestlers. And he's fucking ragdolling them. He goes, he's a freak. He goes, he's going to fuck Dricus up. I go, really? He goes, dude, if he gets a hold of that guy, he's fucked. Turned out to be 100 % accurate. Yeah, it was like the most obscene example I've seen.

1:35:49His wrestling is obscene. That's a great way to put it. His wrestling is obscene. And if you can't compete, like this one thing that I said about Dricus after that fight, it was like that gap is so wide. It's like jumping across the Grand Canyon. You're not going to make it. Like you would have to start you'd have to get a time machine Go back to the time when you're six and start wrestling in Dagestan like you've you've got to like have those kind of skills To compete with that guy. Yeah Only an elite wrestler who can also strike is gonna be able to fuck with that guy Unless he gets silly and decides to strike with this episode is brought to you by LifeLock Tis the season for identity theft this time of year most of us are checking off our holiday gift list But guess what?

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1:37:09Well, here's an idea. Give them the gift of peace of mind and get them LifeLock. The last thing you or anyone wants to do this holiday season is face drained accounts, fraudulent loans, or other financial losses from identity theft all alone. Make this season about joy, not identity theft, with LifeLock. Save up to 40 % your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use the promo code JRE or go to lifelock.com slash JRE for 40 % off. Terms apply. I'm going to make KO him. Other than that, I just can't see anybody fucking with that guy. Yeah. I mean, it's, I guess, needs somebody stylistically to match up to really.

1:37:54Bo Nickel. Yeah. But Bo has to grow as a fighter. You know, he has to grow as a fighter, and he's doing that. I mean, he's an unbelievably dedicated and disciplined guy. And if anybody can do it, he can do it because he's got that elite wrestling. Like, if they had a wrestling match, it would be fantastic. But Chemayev is a much better striker right now, at least has been, up until this last fight with Vieira, which was a huge knockout. But Vieira was kind of a standing target for Bo. What did you think of the Usman positive test result? Kind of interesting. Oh, the bigger Usman. Yeah, the older brother.

1:38:32Yeah, duh. That's a duh. He's fucking huge. Yeah, I mean. Unfortunate, you know, because the heavyweight division is so devoid of talent. Yeah. Gable Stevenson is the fucking guy. Yeah. That's the guy. That's the guy. He's not even in the UFC yet. I mean, that Olympic gold medalist, fucking freak athlete, 250 pounds, moves like a cat. That's the guy that he's every. I sent a text message to Dana White. I sent him a video of Gable's last fight. I said everyone's fucked Everyone's fucked when this guy comes out. He K.O. this guy with a left hand He K.O. this guy with a left hand and then took him down as he was knocked out Watch this knockout because it's so fucking crazy the speed that this guy has first of all Really good striking already and he's only been striking for like a fucking year But watch when he KOs this guy he hits him with a punch Boom, and then takes him down.

1:39:28Jesus. Dude, everyone's fucked. And then just, I mean, that's just nuts, man. That kind of speed is nuts for a heavyweight. Yeah. Look at that left hook. Boom, takes him down, smash. And then, you know. That's like a video game combo. Exactly. And he can do backflips and shit. When he fought in dirty boxing, he knocks the guy out, and then he leaps over the top rope and lands on the apron. Just leaps over the top rope with, like, effortless. Yeah. Freak. Just a real freak. And again, just watch this KO. When he KOs this guy, well, first of all, this guy has no business being in there with him.

1:40:05But this is just boxing. This is what they call dirty boxing. Boom. So you could ground and pound guys. So is this like the modern day DC? Sort of? Oh, he's maybe even better and bigger. A lot bigger. See how he jumped over that rope? Watch that again. Super athletic, but kind of unassuming. Exactly. Well, I mean, not really unassuming. He's a fucking house man. He just doesn't. He has higher body fat. Yeah. But look how he jumped over that rope. Oh, yeah. When you see that, of course. Watch it. Show that again. Yeah, that was insane. Look how the effortless, look at just effortless leaps over that fucking.

1:40:39That's like five feet. He just jumps over it like it's nothing. And after fighting. After fighting. But literally with no effort. Just hops over it like it didn't exist. Lands perfectly. He's a freak, man. And he's training with Jon Jones and you know he's training with like some of the best fighters and he's training and he's trying to fight every month He's trying to get as much experience as he can before he gets into the UFC and he's coming and everybody's in trouble How old is he? 25. They're all fucked. Yeah, everyone's fucked I mean everyone is fucked because there's no other than Jon There's no one that can wrestle with that guy in that sport and the thing about a guy who could wrestle like that Is if he can strike like that the problem with wrestling is you're always worried about the takedown so that opens you up to strikes Because you're always like every faint you're thinking is gonna shoot for your legs But then boom he catches you with a left hook and the speed that guy has it's like a lethal combination of athleticism speed power size and an insane wrestling pedigree I mean Olympic gold medalist as good as it gets with wrestling I think the last time I heard you talk about a guy like this at least when I was on was Pereira yeah he came in similar similar kind of thing where he's a specialist you know but you're like watch out for this fucking guy yeah oh yeah I remember DC was like come on man I'm like dude I'm telling you this guy is different because I had been a huge fan of Pereira when he was fighting in glory and you know you'd watch him hit guys and they'd go flying across the ring like what a fuck is that guy made out of and when you like when I interview him like I put my hand on him it's like this table dude he's like made out of oak like he's fucking dense and there's something about the way he throws punches have you ever seen him punch that that machine you know that machine that like generates like it shows you the less but it's like super high power he hit it with his right hand because his left hand had been bothering him and he got 190 100 the previous like francis and gano got a 129 he got a 190 with a right hand it's fucking Insane dude.

1:42:47I got like 150 with a kick this guy got 190 with a punch 190 is insane and it's his right hand. I bet his left hand is probably 200. It's fuck see if you can find that video It got deleted Well, the way he was being advertised when you Google it is not. Broke the internet. It's not currently there. People like hide it. Somewhere else. Bro, he hit so hard that Mark Goddard, after he fought Khalil Roundtree, after he just beat Khalil Roundtree across the octagon, Mark Goddard, when they were announcing the KO and raising his hand, Mark comes up to me at the end of the fight. He goes, the sound, the sound it makes when that guy hits people is ungodly.

1:43:29He goes, I've been doing this for 20 years, mate. He goes it's ungod - watch this 1-70 Oh my gosh! Bro! Bro! Bro, bro, bro Yo Lou! Play that again. Play that. Just look at the force that this guy generates. There's something about - There's - it's the leverage because of his take - That's us watching it. 1-70

1:44:04Oh my god! That's nuts. That's nuts. His power is a weird thing, man. You're born with it. Like nothing else. There's a lot of skills that you can acquire, but there's a threshold to how hard you're going to be able to hit. And I think it's based on body mechanics. It's based on the frame. It's based on the size of your hand. He has massive hands. It's based on, there's just a lot of factors. Explosive, fast twitch muscle fiber. Some people don't have a lot of it. Some people are more of an endurance fighter and they don't hit as hard. But they can just get you with combinations and they put you away eventually.

1:44:42But Pereira's different, man. It's like, like David Goggins always likes to say, he's uncommon amongst uncommon men. Yeah. It's interesting that his chin seems to be holding up really well. At leg anyway. Yeah. And he has been knocked out before he's getting older and he seems fine. Well, it's because he's not cutting weight anymore. There's nothing that fucks your chin up more than dehydration. When he was losing weight, he was getting down to 185 pounds and he was weighing in the day of the fight at 226. 226, weighing in at 185, you cut weight and then rehydrating up to 226 a day later. Damn.

1:45:24Like you don't rehydrate your brain, man. And so you can't take shots. You can't take shots as well. And it's a common thread amongst fighters. Like Jack Hermanson, he got knocked out by Gregory Rodriguez at 185. And Gregory Rodriguez is another one. He's a freak. Just a giant 185. It doesn't even make sense. You're standing next to him. I weigh 200 pounds and I stand next to him. I'm a little short me. And I'm like, how? How the fuck are you 15 pounds lighter than me? That's not even – this is science. Like it doesn't even make sense. and so jack went down to 170 and just got KO'd the other day bad yeah just bad yeah because i think that you're way more vulnerable like frankie edgar is a perfect example because frankie when he was in his prime at 155 didn't cut any weight he was one of the rare guys that was a 155 pound champion that was actually 155 pounds when he fought and just amazing durability because of that because he didn't he didn't dehydrate himself so he was like optimal and there's like this point of diminishing returns where you're physically bigger you're stronger but you can't take shots and you also fatigue quicker because your body essentially almost died 24 hours ago yeah i mean these guys get to death's door to make weight their whole face is sucked in their eyeballs are pulled back in their head yeah it's kind of crazy yeah i think uh more attention is going to come to how to actually ensure your brain stays safe in the sports for longevity purposes as people kind of realize how impactful like the weight cutting especially can be but also like if you end up getting knocked out yeah you might not come back the same and some of the strategies that should be employed after those fights as well to actually restore as quickly as possible and avoid permanent degradation well it's like there's there's two schools of thought there's one school of thought that I'm in, which we need to expand the weight classes.

1:47:20So we have more weight classes and we need to somehow or another institute some sort of hydration policy where you cannot dehydrate yourself and weigh in and pretend that you weigh 170 when really you weigh 210 because there's a lot of guys doing that. And the other school of thought is they should be able to hydrate with IVs because they used to be able to hydrate with IVs. The blood brain barrier and the hydration of the brain, it takes much longer to rehydrate your brain than it does to rehydrate your muscle tissue. And so these guys are going in there, their muscles are full, but their brain is dehydrated and they're vulnerable to getting knocked out.

1:47:59And I think that's what happened with Pereira, particularly with the Izzy fight. But Izzy caught him with a picture perfect right hand, just right on the chin and then followed it up with a left hook. But it was just, he didn't have the durability at 185 that he has at 205. At 205, he's been dropped like Khalil dropped him guys have dropped him and you know ankle I have rocked him but he can take it he could take it at 205 yeah and now he's talking about going all the way up to heavyweight which is kind of crazy yeah I mean like all power to him if he does fuck who doesn't want to see it oh yeah I mean I would love to see him fight John Jones at the White House and what's your ideal White House card look like John Jones versus Pereira for sure um Conor McGregor versus uh Michael Chandler.

1:48:46That would be awesome. You want to have some fun. That's a fun fight. And then you'd probably want Islam Makhachev versus Ilya Tupuria. That would be insane. Maybe even at 155. I don't know if Islam even wants to make 155 anymore, but Ilya said he would fight him at 170, which is crazy because Ilya is smaller than me. What's his walk around weight? I don't know, but that's another guy that has the touch of death. There's guys that just have freaky power. It's freaky. Hopefully he doesn't let his personal shit derail whatever is happening. Oh, I know. Like, you're in your late 20s, and it's like, not the time, bro.

1:49:24I know. It's crazy. I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened with the wife. I don't know if it's a coincidence, but I mean, you can't. I'm sure the internet has their speculation, but the timing is very odd with, like, one of these interviews he did where somebody was, almost seemed to plant in his head that, like, Like if you meet a wife in Miami that she's probably like not a good – Is that where he met her? I think so, yeah. And it was like – But he lives in Spain. And somebody – I forget who it was, but somebody like jokingly said, oh, you met – like it looks like you can meet quality women in Miami.

1:50:01Crazy. Like you would have never thought. And then he was like visibly shook. He was like, what do you mean by that? Oh, no. And the guy was like, did I just offend you and you're going to fuck me up? or like what is happening right now? And he would just seem to like almost internalize that. Is there a reason I shouldn't trust Miami women and I haven't considered it? And then it's just like, you can't help but think with the timing, the fucking wheels are turning. Oh, God. I didn't know that he met her in Miami. I don't know if that's even true because he lives or if it even is like relevant at all.

1:50:31But it's just weird timing. I would imagine it's relevant meeting a woman in Miami. I mean, the factors certainly support that it's like a more likely chance that she's not the person she represented herself as potentially. Well, not just that. It's the culture of Miami. I always say that if you want to starve to death, open up a bookstore in Miami. It's like people are just partiers. It's like you should have a passport to go to Miami. It's barely America. It's fun. It's a great city. A lot of fun. But it doesn't really lend itself to the kind of sturdy, stay-at-home mom support for a world champion.

1:51:07Because the discipline involved in being not just a world champion, but a world champion on Ilya's level, like a two-division dominator, goes up, knocks out Charles Oliveira like it's nothing. Not only that, it had a celebration the night before the fight, celebrating his victory. That was almost like Gordon Ryan shit, like times two. Times two. Times two. And even apologize to Charles. I'm sorry it has to be you. I love you. You're a great guy. Sorry it has to be you. Like super respectful of Charles. He's a legend. And then flat lines him in the first round, like he said he was going to. He's like, trust me, I'm going to knock him out in the first round.

1:51:45One punch. Boom! Touch of death. It's like there's guys that have, and for him it's like not a big guy, right? Like not extremely muscular. Like there's nothing, he's not massive, but it's mechanics. His mechanics are fucking perfect. His timing is fucking perfect. Belief in himself, technique, everything. It's like all the above. But it's like there's guys that you can't let hit you. And Ilya is one of them. And I think that probably carries all the way up to 170. I just don't, I mean, the difference between, so 170, look at him, and then look at some of the big 170s. like Jack Della Maddalena.

1:52:25He's a fucking big guy. Like there's like big, like Michael Venom Page. He's fucking huge. That would be a nightmare matchup for Ilya. If he really did decide to go to 170, a guy like Venom, because you can't hit that guy. Like if you can't hit that guy and he can hit you and he's a point fighting champion. So that is the absolute best style of the blitz, of like being able to close distance quickly. Nobody does that like that MVP. He's the best at it. the best at it maybe of all time. Yeah, I wonder if it would be kind of like when Canelo tried to go up and then it was kind of like. And he fought Bival.

1:52:59Yeah. Yeah. I could see that sort of being the outcome where it's not his. Yeah, could be. But Canelo, it's like later in his career, you know. But it's like there would be a giant problem. But also you have like the disadvantage if it's actually MMA versus just boxing. But like, yeah, the guy is one of the most exciting guys to watch. is a great representative too. When he was on your show, dude. Oh, he's amazing. Oh my God, dude. It's like, could you have said more right things? Yeah, I know. He's great. And then that just is unfortunate for any misalignment of your personal life at this time of your career.

1:53:34Somebody's got to get him. A bad woman. He's got to get his boys in his corner and just get his mind dialed. He has children with this lady too. So it's like, oh God. Yeah. Yeah. I mean. It's like, you know, that's what it is, regardless of what he's saying, you know, when he's like, I got to get my personal life in order and the timing of everything. And I think there's actually, is it publicly media about the, there's like a divorce now or something? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's public. Yeah. Jesus Christ. Well, she's taking photos with rappers and shit. Ugh. Yeah, putting it on Instagram. No. Yeah.

1:54:06You know how they do it? They try to steal your soul. Jesus. Put a fucking knife right in your spirit. Dude, that's crazy. Yeah, man. Hell has no fury like a woman scorned. Well, hopefully that helps him think he made the right call then, I guess. I guess. But does that help? This is the mother of your children, and this lady is a monster. There's nothing worse than feeling like psychologically duped by somebody too. Well, I don't know if it is psychologically duped or if it's like once she's not on your side, then it's just burn the house down. Yeah, you know, there's a lot of ladies like that because they feel like you you hooked up with a guy who is an incredibly special human being the rarest of rare you not just UFC world champion, but a two division world champion superstar who the whole world wants to see.

1:54:57And you're his wife. So you you like, oh, look at me. I'm married to the baddest motherfucker alive. And then he doesn't want to be with you anymore. Like, oh, really? Well, I'm going to fucking take you down. And women, that's what they love is reputation destruction. That's what they're really, that's what they really are experts in when shit goes sideways. What's the typical outcome of these cases where it's like super famous person, wife claims that she is 50 % responsible for their success, tries to take half. Is that like if there's no prenup, that's kind of just what happens? Depends on where they are, right?

1:55:31So I don't know where they got married. You know, where they're getting divorced. I was like, is it in Spain? What kind of laws does Spain have? He's like a super traditional guy who probably didn't even get the right shit set up. God, I hope not. He seems really innocent. It looked like a perfect marriage. Yeah. That's what's crazy. But this is the ugliness of social media, right? Yeah. Is that everybody wants to put out this pretend image of perfection, that everything's perfect. And so you have photos of you holding hands and walking together and kissing. I love you more than anything in life.

1:56:06and you post it out there for the world and you're putting on a show for the world but meanwhile there's like all sorts of internal bullshit that's going on you're trying to work through and you're hoping it works out and then when it falls apart you're like fuck and then you got to go back on your instagram and delete all those pictures isn't it better to just like not talk about any of it publicly and just like keep your relationship shit like private you would i think most of your life you should keep i think social media in general and that not just for famous people just in general is way worse for people that it is good especially Instagram yeah I think many a person has ruined their life on Twitter many a person has said things on Twitter that's tanked their career ruined their life you know it's just The motivation to get attention for your words and your images is very toxic It's very dangerous and you're playing with explosives.

1:57:00It's just not smart It's just not a good thing to engage in I am much happier when I rarely am on social media And so I like dip my toes in see what everybody's mad about then I get the fuck out and move on with my day And I never try to portray myself in any way other than who I actually am I don't know I'm not interested in like some fucking you know some

1:57:27video montage with fucking music and inspirational quotes if somebody else makes that that's fine i'm not involved but i'm not putting anything like that up and checking the likes get the fuck out of here that's bad for you i think it's bad for you the good and the bad the negatives the people hating on you is bad for you like oh that's not me at all hey why are you saying that and then the good's not good for you either because then you start believing your own bullshit and think your shit doesn't smell it's crazy it's bad for you it's this it's the opposite of mindfulness it's the opposite of being in the moment it's the opposite of that because you're like living for other people's attention that you don't even know you don't even know these people and you're allowing them to comment on like your wife and your family you're holding her hand and you're renewing vows you're on your knee presenting her a ring with in a video what the fuck are you doing?

1:58:21Why would you do that? That's a private thing. If it's real love, between the two of you. And if it's like, if you're really working, work hard in silence. What is this? What are you doing? Like, what is all this about? But it's just for likes. Everybody is addicted to these likes. I want to see the numbers. Only 6 ,000 likes? This is crazy. I bared my soul for you. I just think it's really bad for people and also it's like most people don't know what fame really is They think they do and then they get it and then they think they can manage it And then the the fucking psychology behind it And the spinning that goes on in your mind when you're trying to go to bed And you're worried about all the mean things people are saying about you.

1:59:05It's like It's just bad. It's just not good. What's the strategy now for you? Do you have a burner phone or like how do you do just like divorce yourself? I just don't read it. I don't read anything. And I don't. You did a burner phone for a while. Yeah. I, well. Or just fucking annoying. Ultimately, I do have a burner phone. Well, I don't have a burner phone. I have a phone that I give to people that are just annoying or that I don't really want to. Like I leave it at home. I never check it. So there's certain like business stuff. And I don't want business stuff to be entering into my life all the time.

1:59:38So I want to I have like regimented times where I check things and respond to people. But I think my next phone number, which I'm changing soon, is going to be no social media at all. And then my other phone number, I'm just going to do that with it. I'm just going to do my social media posts, all the stuff that I have to do. Like, hey, I got a show coming up or, hey, this guy was great. It's a podcast happening. Post and ghost is what I do. Post, then get out of there. But I'm not going to have any social media on my new phone. I just generally think it's bad for you. And it gets in the way of – it's an abuse of precious resources.

2:00:12That's what I think. So do you have like podcasts and stuff on it or like how do you – do you entertain yourself with actual social media or like how do you – No, I'll entertain myself with YouTube. It's hard to not like have this shit infiltrate when you have like a taste of it. It's like before you know it, you're sitting on the toilet looking at social media or something. Yeah. That's another nice thing that I like to do is not look at my phone when I'm on the toilet. Just go to the toilet and just leave it there. I've been leaving my phone on Do Not Disturb too, which is also a nice thing.

2:00:41I like doing that. Put it on Do Not Disturb and check it occasionally. Every now and then check it. And, you know, you could set up Do Not Disturb where certain people can get through, like my wife can get through, my kids can get through, best friends can get through. But it's just like I think that for the most part what you're doing is you're using very valuable resources on things that aren't valuable at all. Yeah, it's part of the reason I work best late at night as much as I would love to have the perfect circadian rhythm and, you know, go to bed at the perfect time and align it with the sun going down.

2:01:13It's like the only time my phone and all the stuff is not blowing up. It's in the middle of the night and I can just focus and not have to think about stuff, you know, blasting me. Me too. Yeah, my best writing is always late at night when everyone's asleep. Yeah. Yeah. And that's also it's like there's something about late at night where the world seems a little bit more crazy. I think my mind is a little more tuned to danger and chaos. It seems more heightened because it's dark out. It's dark out and everyone's asleep. I'm like, what is the world really made out of? That's where I do my best thinking.

2:01:47It's funny because when I look out, I just see calm. There's no traffic. And I'm just like, this is nice. That too, but night is when I worry about war. That's when I worry about it. Oh, my God, dude. I know. Sometimes I let it get in my head. And that's when I get my most anxiety about the future of the world is at night. There's something about that. Do you still smoke weed a fair bit? Allegedly. Yeah. How does that impact? It's great for writing. Oh, that's not good for paranoia. That's what I was asking. Yeah. Well, it makes you hypersensitive to danger. Yeah. It is, too. Yeah. But it's really great for creativity.

2:02:27For creativity, there's nothing like it. And for comedy, it's a steroid. It's like the best, like, it is the best performance-enhancing drug ever created for writing comedy. Oh, really? Yeah, there's nothing like it. Like, especially edibles. Like, you have thoughts that, like, you're like, okay, I don't even know if I would ever have that thought without weed. Like, that thought is, weed wrote that joke. I barely had anything to do with that. What's the ideal edible dose? Depends on your tolerance. Talk to zero ideas. Zero tolerance. Oh, 10. 10 milligrams might fuck you up, though. Maybe five.

2:02:57Maybe five is good. You know, that's like in the places where it's legal, like if you go to New York or L.A., I think L.A. has a 10 milligram threshold. I think you can only get 10. That's the highest you can get. 10's a lot for someone who doesn't do it. But, you know, Joey Diaz will pop like a 250. He'll pop two 50s. He's a fucking freak, though. Like his tolerance is like nothing I've ever seen in my life. He used to dose people. he would take like a 25 milligram edible and he'd take the wrapper off and put a 250 milligram edible in and give it to his co-host oh my god dude it's like i think it's funny but like i'm not it's only funny because it's joey it was anybody that he didn't love you'd be like what the fuck is wrong with you but when joey does it just like oh my god so you just think you're dying like unreasonable you just know and he's over there laughing ha ha ha and you're just sitting there spiraling yeah he just always says I want to see the devil he goes fuck this mic with those things I want to see the devil he likes getting freaked out he likes it but I mean for creativity I think it has a place that's the comedian juice right there yeah I think you know not for everybody some people don't like it at all you know I know some really great comics that are stone cold sober and for them it's just They just like to sit and think.

2:04:21But a lot of the best ones that I know, they have switched over to either a flip phone or a phone with nothing on it. No social media at all. I think eventually you realize, like, that time you're spending just scrolling mindlessly through things, it's such precious resources. You only have so much time in a day. And you're spending time just looking at nonsense. But also the other side of it is you do want to have your finger on the pulse of society. You want to kind of know what's going on in the world. Yeah, if you're a comedian, how do you even like talk about pop culture and stuff that's trending or whatever?

2:05:00Well, interestingly enough, I get sent enough things. Oh, it's like consolidated for you? Yeah. I get sent enough things by my friends that are fucked up that I don't have to go looking. So I go, Jesus, is that real? And then I'll maybe, you know, do a search and find out that it is real and then read about it and like, what? But that I think is probably valuable because it's keeping you informed. It's the endless, mindless scrolling that I think is the most detrimental and the one that robs you of the most time. Because, you know, you could be sitting down at the kitchen table and all of a sudden you have this plan for the day.

2:05:35You're going to get going. You're drinking a cup of coffee. And then, you know, 45 minutes is gone. Yeah. 45. You get a brutal fucking workout in 45 minutes. But you didn't do anything. There's nothing more guilty feeling than having wasted your six to eight really sharp mental hours, any part of that, on something that dumb. I feel so bad when I do it. Yeah. When I have done it in the past, I just feel like it's such a reason. And it's like, how did I do it again? Yep. How did I let it get me again? It's like you feel like an idiot or a druggie or something. Well, you are. You're a low-level druggie.

2:06:05It's a low drug. It's not even a good one. It's not even like, I feel great. This is amazing. It doesn't even do that to you. But Sugar Sean O'Malley had a great quote. He said, even when I'm just regular scrolling, if it has nothing to do with me, he goes, I get a low-level anxiety. And I'm like, yeah, me too. Like, it's weird. And I think that low-level anxiety is like a little bit of, as you know, you're wasting your time. Yeah, for sure. When he fought Marab the second time, he got totally off social media for like months and months. Oh, probably the best strategy. Yeah, it still didn't help.

2:06:39Yeah. Yeah. I mean, at least he put in, like, did what he thought would work, though. Did his best. There's a lot of people that will succumb to the pressure at the max level and check what people are saying about them, who's going to win. That's the worst. Watching your training footage you posted. Seeing if people like it. Fuck this guy talking about whatever. Yeah. I mean, some people thrive on it. They like haters. Bodybuilding is the worst for it, too. I'm sure it's just as bad as MMA, but it's like your entire physique is like your social media brand. So it's like you post your physique and then the feedback you get, you kind of have to look at, I guess, because it's like what you compete with too.

2:07:21So you're literally taking judge feedback that's subjective and taking what they're telling you is wrong with your body to fix. And then you're just bombarded by people in the comments section are like, you lost because of this. You're lazy. How did you not get in shape? And it's like even down to the lighting on stage can make you look much worse than you actually are. I'll be like, you showed up with soggy glutes, bitch. And it's like, I'm fucking shredded. Like, what are you talking about? Soggy glutes is hilarious. Yeah. And it's like back in the 90s, I don't know what it was, but it was like some of the lighting too was almost so bad that it gave this granular, sharp, kind of like pixelated, but like etchy look to the physiques.

2:08:03and it would look like they were more cut and defined and just better down lighting overall. And some of these shows, they're so washed out with the high resolution and like the perfect, I want to say perfect, it's like almost overexposed lighting to show what's going on on the stage. That they look watery and fat, even when they're like, and I say watery and fat, like the fucked up perception of the fitness industry. It's like proportional to what you're expected to look like. But it's like, they could be shredded out of their mind and, like, having worked so hard to show up in shape and then just get, like, decimated online from some fucking keyboard warrior who's like, you're back.

2:08:40It's, like, too watery, bro. Go back to the fucking elliptical, you know? Well, it's also, like, bodybuilding is the sport of ego, right? Because it's only about what you look like. Yeah, it's crazy. That's the whole thing. It's not about how fast you are. Like, look, look, Gable. I was like, he's not shredded. Yeah. You know, but he's the ultimate freak. You know, like BJ Penn in his prime. There's a lot of guys who are, they were never shredded. They were always just smooth and fucked people up. David Benavidez, another one, like elite, world-class boxer, light heavyweight champion. Got a little muffin top.

2:09:18Did you see his last fight? Benavidez fought Anthony Yard. Okay, perfect contrast. Just happened last weekend. Oh, I missed that one. yard is fucking shredded he's an adonis he is a greek god he's literally like you look at him there's no way if you saw the two of them you would say that guy on the left that has no abs and is smooth is gonna fucking destroy the guy on the right nobody would believe it see if you can find yeah the two of them together there's no way there's no way david benavidez is one of the Scariest guys alive because he's relentless. He's so fucking skillful. He's so fast is brutal combinations But he's so unimpressive physically looking at him and in yard looks like like you would expect in a movie like the perfect The perfect scary opponent like there's Benavidez.

2:10:11I look at him I mean looks like an athlete right looks in shape, but now what do you see yard? Look at yard Yeah, like fitness model. Fucking shredded. And brutal power, too. But he just couldn't fuck with Benavidez. See, go way deep into the fight before he stops him. Yeah, I mean, Benavidez was just putting it on him. Just standing right in front. And Yard, the thing about having that much musculature, there's just a reality of the oxygen. Yeah. Just beat the shit out of him, man. And Yard's really good, man. He's a really good boxer. But Benavidez, like, look at the difference in the physiques, man.

2:10:55His physique is perfect. Yeah, I mean, it's almost like a limitation for some people where you're just, like, sapping up so much oxygen-carrying capacity to supply the tissue. But it's also there's a skill gap. I mean, Benavidez is super fucking skillful. This is the guy that people say Canelo's been avoiding. He kind of probably has because Benavidez is the up-and-coming Mexican champion that everybody loves, and Canelo is, you know, the king, and everybody was like, this is the big fight at 168. And so Benavidez had to go up to 175 to get big fights because Canelo wouldn't fight him at 168. Huh.

2:11:34Canelo is, is he just kind of like picking and choosing? Look at this, look at this, bro. Come on, man. This fucking guy's good. He's so good. How old is he? And he stands right. He's young, man. I think Benavidez is, is he 28? How old is David Benavidez? is he's young okay young and elite and going through his prime right now hold is a 28 yeah yeah yeah in his prime you know he's even more unassuming is like half the nhl players that play hockey oh really oh dude like have you ever seen somebody look more like a frat bro who does not play sports nhl players well those guys have crazy cardio yeah that's a race so but you would never think like i used to bounce downtown vancouver and we'd have the teams come by that would play the canucks and they would come party at the champagne lounge and the club that i was bouncing at and he'd be like this guy is like you know a professional athlete it'd be the whole team and half of them looked like you know some dude that's like you'd do like a fucking keg stand with it like you know a party and that's like the max of his athletic capacity is being like held up to chug some beer or something.

2:12:44Well, I bet those guys drink a lot. Oh, yeah. I bet out of all the athletes that drink, it's got to be hockey players at the top of the heap, right? Yeah. And they're fucking super athletic or good endurance. You know, it's like just so unassuming physique wise. It's like. It's all legs. Yeah. It's got to be all legs. I bet they're shredded from the waist down. Yeah, it's crazy seeing like the sport specific translation in actual like physical, like physiology that's conducive to your sport. You see a sprinter and it's like, you know, he's a fucking hundred meter sprinter And then you see, you know another guy and it's like you might not even think he plays sports You know, I thought that when I went to the professional soccer Team here in town Austin FC These guys have these fucking quarter horse legs and then like real thin upper bodies Like they don't use their arms.

2:13:33They don't it's literally unless you're a goalie You don't use them. Yeah. So they have like tiny little upper bodies, massive fucking legs, and insane cardio because they're constantly sprinting. They sprint for 90 minutes. I mean, they're just running around sprinting. There's a couple outliers that do look up Adam Traore, I think it is. I might be totally butchering. But Ronaldo. Ronaldo's pretty jacked. He's jacked. He's like the hyper optimizer too. He really is. I mean, remember there was a thing where they tried to give him a Coca-Cola and he fucking took it aside and said, no, agua. Yeah.

2:14:08And Coca-Cola lost like a billion dollars in stock. Whoa, look at that guy. Yeah. Yeah, that guy's a freak. Yeah. Well, there's always going to be freaks out there. Yeah. But it's crazy to see a guy like that excel so well, too, at a sport that you would think he'd kind of be like barely chugging along. Well, that's probably just because he's been doing it his whole life, you know, and he has unbelievable genetics. Yeah. Genetics are a nutty thing, man. You can't outrun genetics. But they don't always help. Like, look at Yard. Yard has perfect genetics, right? Yeah. And then Benavidez, you would look at him and you'd go, oh, that's not the best genetics.

2:14:42Like, if he was a bodybuilder, you'd be like, get the fuck out of here. Yeah, it's crazy, too, because sometimes you might just have, like, nice-looking, round muscle bellies, but you don't actually have, like, mitochondrial density to support athletic endeavors. So you're kind of just, like, a show thing. You're just, like, a cosmetically pleasing athlete but not actually able to translate it into anything. Yeah, that's weird. I've always thought that was weird. I always thought that was weird and striking because there's a lot of guys that are just built like fucking brick shithouses. Then you see him hit the bag and be like, this is nuts.

2:15:13Like you have zero power. It's weird. Yeah. And it's like you would think objectively more muscle equals. But sometimes they're like weak as shit even in lifts. It's just like the development, the hypertrophy they get from it is just disproportionately better. That's weird. Can that be optimized though? Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-CONTACTS. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order.

2:15:50Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-CONTACTS.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-CONTACTS. contacts they have like unbelievable looking physiques is it just that they're not doing as much because they don't need to to look great i think there's definitely specific training for purposes that would be conducive to sport that maybe they some might be neglecting for sure and ways to optimize for like like for example you don't do hypertrophy work for bodybuilding because it's not conducive really to what you're trying to get and i think some some people they want the best of both worlds and they want to like look the part and also perform so they might be yeah sapping bandwidth that could be allocated towards more optimal things that don't make them you know as cosmetically pleasing yeah there's definitely things you can do from a uh support standpoint when it comes to you know nutrition supplementation etc but like you are ultimately going to be capped to some extent by genetic coding when it comes to like density of certain receptors and like you can up regulate it to whatever capacity you can but like you can only push it so far before you've kind of you know yeah chapped out it's interesting because like the really bulky guys they just never have the same fluidity that the guys that are built like benavidez have or the the punches flow and these effortless combinations a perfect technique the really jack guys that look like they're destroyers the flexibility is so much more limited to when you're like that though oh yeah yeah unless you really work at it yeah really work out yeah and you have to have a intentful approach to making sure you can maintain you know the flexibility that might otherwise just be innate to somebody who doesn't have to deal with a giant deltoid that like right right right yeah you know uh jaco you know jaco yeah um you know i've hunted with him before and jaco like a correct archery release correct archery release is you're supposed to get a surprise shot.

2:17:49So as the shot breaks, your arm kind of goes back like this. Jocko is so jacked and he has such limited motion that his archery release is like this. But he's doing it correctly. But it doesn't move the same way. It's all just Jocko smash. His body is designed to choke the shit out of you. That's all it's for. His body is designed to get a hold of you, take you to the ground, snap your fucking arm in half. That's what it's for. it's just force and and strength and you know and it's like it's funny i'm like i'm like does your arm not move that way he's like no it doesn't doesn't go back i'm like that's funny because i'm watching him watching his archery release it's perfect but there's you know you watch like a like a levi morgan a world champion pro archer like as the shot breaks their arm just goes back like naturally just like flows his just goes it just moves a little bit when i was uh at my peak of bodybuilding size, I was in the middle of a job as a lifeguard and teaching swimming lessons to kids.

2:18:49And part of the teaching swimming lessons would involve showing how to do the different strokes of, you know, back crawl, front crawl, breaststroke, all the different things. And when you're like a 265 pound bodybuilder, it gets pretty difficult because not only do you just sink harder because you're, you know, mostly muscle, but also like just even trying to get a straight arm past your head it's impossible so i actually had to stop teaching swimming your ears your fucking shoulders are slamming it like it would look like you couldn't even do what you're trying to teach like a fucking six-year-old or something very few guys work on mobility a great example of someone who does is armand sarukian armand sarukian who just wanted to beat dan hooker two weeks ago or a week ago his mobility training is fucking super impressive He is jacked.

2:19:40Have you seen Armand? Yeah, he's pretty. Shredded. He's a guy that doesn't pass the smell test. There's a way to improve mobility, by the way. It's just a lot of bodybuilders do not care. Right. And there is some anatomical limitations, ultimately, if there is muscles literally in the way. But I just want to put it out there. I'm sure I could have figured it out if I cared at the time. Perhaps. But at 265 with your frame? Oh, yeah. I would have been limited by the actual anatomy. But like I had no care for optimizing mobility or anything. I was just like what's my max bench? Show photo of Derek when he was jacked when you're super jacked there's some photos of him out there that you were preposterous Yeah, yeah, do you miss those days you ever look at that physique?

2:20:22No, I mean I feel like I've come to peace a while ago with not looking like that anymore It's a lot of upkeep dude until like yeah look at you then is that your height? I think you were a little bigger than that at one point. Yeah, I think this is like a profile picture. So, yeah, that was a more recent one. It was probably like how I lost 75 pounds in the bottom left is probably, yeah, right there. The fat, maybe one of those. That shot probably is one of the bigger ones. Bro, you got big at one point in time. Was that how you were before you started lifting? Look at that old school BlackBerry you have.

2:20:59So that dates it just by the phone. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was, I was like trying to be a competitive bodybuilder. And I just kind of realized that I could look good for, you know, like fitness industry, I guess, for kind of looking jacked for Instagram or whatever. And like doing okay at like a regional level for, you know, a lower tier level of physiques. But like bodybuilding to take it to that next level, it was just like a level of stress. I wouldn't be able to, one, be willing to sustain. and then two, it just wouldn't have been worth it because it was like I had tried pushing drugs and I just wasn't responding to a level I knew I needed to to continue and justify using that much.

2:21:41Is it a genetic thing? Yeah, so it's like your androgen receptor content is a largely predetermined thing. There are some things you can do similar to like mitochondrial density and things of that nature that you can do to upregulate and improve it and certain supplements you can use. But ultimately, your number of muscle fibers are going to be limited. Like there's going to be people who are just at baseline, you know, chihuahua looking humans that if you put them on gear, they just become bigger chihuahua humans essentially. But like they're never going to be, you know. Jacked. Yeah, they're never going to get, you know, Mr.

2:22:19Olympia caliber. And there's a certain like muscle belly that's more conducive to looking bigger and also being able to support certain body weights is even like a health thing too. It's not just how well do you respond to drugs. It's also how long can you take them without dying, you know? So it's like some of the most highest performing and like excelling athletes are individuals who can tolerate this stuff and not go, you know, crazy from the – some people mentally cannot handle these level of androgens. and it wrecks their sleep, it wrecks their blood work, they get really early cardiovascular disease.

2:22:55Psychologically, too, they go crazy. Yeah, I've seen deaths in late 20s, mid-30s. There was a guy that was Vitor Belfort's trainer when Vitor first entered into the UFC. So Vitor, when he first fought in the UFC, weighed 200 pounds in his UFC debut when he fought Trey Tellegman. That was UFC 12. and he was like a super athletic, fast, lethal black belt with vicious hands. And then when he fought Randy Couture, he was 240. And his neck started at the top of his head. He just looked like a lion. It was a giant fucking trap. Yeah, it was just ridiculous. He was just ridiculous. And the guy who was working out with him, this guy Curtis, wound up dying very young.

2:23:37And we used to call him garden hoses because this guy's veins were, he was so vascular. It was fucking ridiculous. We worked out next to him. Like, bro, you got garden hoses for veins. This is fucking insane. He was just insane. And he was so big. Like, so big. 300 plus. 5 '10", 300 plus pounds. Just fucking jacked. He was so big. And, you know, he had Vitor convinced that that was the way to go. Just fucking hit the gas full speed. Yeah. I mean, at his peak, he was one of the sauciest dudes. Or at least, you know, he was like the perfect hybrid of athleticism meets, like, crazy looking physique, I would say.

2:24:12At least at the time for what I can recall. Well the TRT Vitor was Vitor so Vitor on the gear when he was younger and then no gear for a while Low period and then when they had TRT in the UFC where they allowed it when it was legal Which was a crazy few years that the people call the TRT Vitor years where Vitor was just dominating everybody Yeah, it was terrifying him and Overeem are like poster childs Overeem was the, that is the poster child. See if you can find a video of Armand Saryukian's mobility workouts. I just have it. Do you have it? Because he does really interesting stuff. Oh, yeah?

2:24:49Yeah, like stuff I've never seen UFC athletes do, but I would think would be really conducive, especially to like scrambles and weird grappling positions where you want to have strength and like odd positions of your body where you're stretched out. and there's one on the side just showing oh yeah i can't imagine so this this kind of stuff like this kind of stuff yeah like look at this like look at all these things so he's doing these kind of things all the time oh yeah just to maintain that kind of flexibility along with all that mass and all that power that he has yeah getting out of some of those awkward positions You've got to be able to get into weird spots comfortably.

2:25:35Yeah, look at that. That's crazy. That's crazy rotation of his back. He's got amazing mobility, but I do have to say he also has back problems. And it might be one of the reasons why he does this. I mean, yeah, when you go exorcism on the fucking twister machine, I can imagine he probably ended up with something. I don't think that's what caused it, honestly. I think it's probably grappling. he's a really elite grappler there's a video of him grappling with Hamzat and he keeps up with Hamzat and they're two weight classes separated and Hamzat is fucking fantastic and you know they're scrambling and it's like a very competitive grappling session yeah yeah I mean it's uh and circling back to some like you know the sauce days and like the garden hose guy I do think it's good that the education is out there though for people to be able to know how to not die from this stuff now Because it's whoa that's Curtis.

2:26:29Yeah. Yeah, that's him was back then it would just be like go to that photo again And the upper left that upper left photo. That's crazy guy was so vascular like look at his bicep Fucking bananas right look at that right bicep and his chest He's got fucking garden hoses on his chest full chocolate, but chocolate face to hit a chocolate face or Milano tan Not the was well, you know the guys that do it now where they keep their face white because they don't want to be called out for having black face. Have you seen that? Yeah, that's funny. It is funny. Have you seen the, I think we looked at the melanotan people.

2:27:04Is that a peptide? Yeah, melanotan too is a one of the, I don't know if it's an obscure one, but I guess maybe proportional to some of the more widespread ones nowadays, but it's like a melanocortin receptor agonist and actually an analog of it is used for women for uh hypoactive uh like low sexual drive so it actually enhances sexual drive too so there's like a component there's a version of the drug that doesn't tan you that just like makes you hornier that women are prescribed called vileci and then men there's no drug approved but you could theoretically take it but it gives you boners and also makes you tan if you take the melano tan too yeah yeah so it's like for bodybuilders and it also suppresses appetite as well.

2:27:46Whoa! It really does that? That's a weird... The lighting on that one on the right is weird. It's like from the Daily Mail. It seems like they might have No, no, no. Dude, this is actually possible. I like how it says that too. You can literally manually become black with this drug. Didn't some lady take that? She was on one of them Sally Jesse Raphael shows. Yeah, and she claimed she was black. Yeah. And she's like, look at me. What are you going to tell me I'm not? Yeah. She started talking like, you know. Oh, God. Yeah. How wild. Yeah. What if it did it to your hair, too? It does. Really? Because it's all pigment related.

2:28:25So it does make your hair blacker as well. It makes your facial hair darker. What does it do? Is there something like that for guys that have gray hair? Yeah. Like, it does it to your - Is this the lady? Yeah, this is the lady. I forgot about this. Look at her boobs, too. Oh, my God. Yeah, it's crazy. That lady might be insane. Like, I'm guessing yes. And it's like you almost wouldn't even think it's real if you weren't told by somebody that you actually can go that far. Like, it's literally you pick your dose and the exposure to the sun will dictate via the dosage, like, how dark you get. And you can go all the way.

2:29:04Interesting. Yeah. Full chocolate body. Is there any side effects? Yeah, you get really nauseous if you overdo it. It's actually a really potent appetite suppressor. So it's like one of the – back in the day, you could find my before and after. Type in Milano Tan 2, More Plates, More Dates, and you'll see my before and after. The last time I used it. And did you use it for bodybuilding? Yeah. Because I'm pale as shit. So, like, for me, the thought of having a tan was pretty awesome. There's me with my CPAP mask on. Why did you take it with a CPAP mask on? I was just like, I look kind of fucking traded.

2:29:42I'll take a pic. That's funny. If you scroll down, you'll see my back before and after. If you keep going. They're right there. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's like weeks apart. It does tan you. Yeah. Dude, you had fucking giant lats, man. That's nuts. Yeah. You could jump off a fucking cliff and fly like a squirrel. Yeah. What a weird pose, eh? You just stand there like... Yeah. Well, bodybuilding is weird, period. Yeah. It is odd. But it's just like the whole idea is not the function. It's not performance. It's just looking giant. Yeah. It's like some of the exercises don't even translate the way you think they would do.

2:30:19Like you do a – you get really good at the bench press. And then you do something else that you think is like pushing related or like force production. It's like, oh, I'm weak as shit here for some reason. Even though you thought it would translate. But it's not like a – it's almost training neuronal patterns too more than even just like the muscle. and you get hypertrophy, but you're also kind of just like training yourself to get really good at specific movements in a way that has like no application to a lot of sports typically. Just to look jacked. There are more like functional choices, obviously, but like the ones most conducive to bodybuilding and not getting injured are oftentimes like, you know, the typical kind of like beach body style things, but there are more intelligent choices for sure.

2:31:01It's not all of that, but. That's the thing, though, is like the guys who lift the heaviest and do it, that's a very odd thing. And then they wind up getting fucked. Like Ronnie Coleman wind up really getting fucked up. Ronnie was famously one of the heaviest lifters as a bodybuilder. And for what it's worth, I'm absolutely not above this style of training. This is what I still kind of do, to be honest. So it's like I do – I'm still a fan of bodybuilding. I don't want to speak poorly on it or anything. And we oversee some of the best bodybuilders on the planet right now as well. and make sure they can do it as safely as possible because it's still a dangerous sport.

2:31:37And, you know, you've got to take modern knowledge to not screw yourself up nowadays. Do you ever tell a guy, like, you just don't have the genetics to ever do this at a professional level? Do you ever have to have that conversation with people? Like, you're pushing the gear so hard and it's not responding. Like, if I had a friend, I guess maybe similar to your, like, heart-to-heart you had with Shob about MMA, at the time when it was like not really worth continuing to expose danger wise. Yeah. It's, you know, often a lot of these kind of situations happen in bodybuilding where it's like you have a close friend who's taking exorbitant amounts of drugs and you know it's just like killing him.

2:32:17And you know that the, like, you're not going to make it to the Olympia. So really, like, what are we doing this for? Yeah. You have better opportunities elsewhere. Like, I've had that conversation a couple of times. But in general, it's kind of like you kind of have to have the self-awareness to know. And I think fortunately that's part of where the education comes in is back in the day, you wouldn't know that you had the bad genetics. You just think everyone's taking more shit than you because you wouldn't really – you thought there was a secret that you didn't know. There was some special drug that they sourced from Europe that you're not getting.

2:32:50Right. You know, they have the secret, you know, fill in the blank thing that the guru at the Olympia level who's coaching all the top bodybuilders has. And you just need to get to the next level and get your IFBB pro card. And then maybe I'll get to work with that guru. And then he'll give me access to that drug. And then I can take it to the next level. And then before you know it, a lot of these guys are still grinding for really like low level shows or like to place poorly, even at like the entry level of professional. And their health is a wreck. And they're not really going to make it to where they think maybe they're on the path to.

2:33:25And so, I don't know. I think the more, you know, transparent look into it has made a lot of people more self-aware to check themselves. And also to know if they're even, because you have to respond well from a health standpoint too. It's not just how good do I look in the mirror. If you have wrecked blood work or you have an abnormal anatomical structure of your heart before you start subjecting yourself to hormones, these are things that are all checkable now proactively. And you could tell beforehand if you're a good candidate not just from a muscular response standpoint but also from a health tolerance standpoint.

2:34:01I wonder what, if any, what factor genetic engineering is going to play into bodybuilding. Myostatin inhibition. Yeah. There is gene therapies that are being utilized now. They're just not that efficacious. Is myostatin inhibitors, are people using them now? Pharmaceutical pipelines are trying to integrate them in order to offset muscle catabolism induced via GLP-1 agonists like semiglutin. Oh, interesting. Yeah, so it's kind of a unique time because not only do we have really aggressive fat loss agents that actually work now that are not simply stimming your brain to high hell, which a lot of the previous drugs worked like that.

2:34:47But now it's like we have these effective things, but they make you eat so little that we now the next thing is there's all this attention on how to lose healthy weight and not, you know, a bunch of muscle weight because there's more education around the importance of losing, you know, fat and not muscle, which is metabolically active tissue, health supporting. Whereas if you just end up skinny fat, you might be no better off than when you started, depending on the person. So some of the more refined, currently being developed drugs are like these fat loss appetite suppressing agents with concurrent thermogenic properties for energy expenditure and then muscle preservation mechanisms built in that inhibit myostatin or act through other pathways to try and keep the muscle on you.

2:35:35Yeah, Brigham from Ways to Well was explaining that they're using, some people rather, are using GLP-1s in conjunction with IGF. And they're combining a bunch of different things to offset the bone density and muscle loss. And then also encouraging weightlifting while they're doing it. Because a lot of people are just taking them and they're just shriveling. Because, look, if you starve yourself, you will lose weight. But you're going to lose bone density. You're going to lose tissue. You're going to lose everything. Yeah, that's like one of the, I think, most important components of the usage of them is especially with, you know, women who might be otherwise not even integrating it into their regular life.

2:36:12They just end up eating less of what is already a nutrient poor or protein poor diet and aren't strength training as much as I guess proportionally to men. It's becoming more prevalent among women, obviously, which is great. But like the bone loss and muscle loss is significant among anybody who is depriving themselves of nutrients like that. And heart tissue, too. Yeah. I mean, everything. That's what's crazy. You're basically self-inducing malnutrition. I just – can't you just diet? I mean, it's really a disciplined thing, not with people that are severely obese. Like I'm in favor of GLP-1s for people.

2:36:52Like, if you're 500 pounds, which, but I do have to say, Jelly Roll did it on the natch. He did it on the natch. He did not take GLP once. He's not taking nothing, man. That guy is just working out every day, and he just cut all the bullshit out of his life. He got rid of his phone. He didn't have a phone for it. He has one now, but he didn't have a phone for the fucking longest time. Even his fucking, his, when you text him, his, you know, the little image that shows up when you get a phone, it's a phone with a fucking red line through it. Yeah. What does that mean? He's just not interested in phones, man.

2:37:25Oh, okay. He decided not to have a phone for a long time because he realized it was negative for his mental health, and he wanted to lose a bunch of weight, but he did it naturally. He really did. He did it just through hard work and discipline and just, you know. Have you seen the images of him now? No. Bro, there's him on stage with Alexander Volkanovsky, and he doesn't even look like the same guy. He's lost 200-plus pounds. Oh, nice. He looks fucking great. I mean, it's amazing. One of the things that's tough when it comes to like the assertion that it's more a willpower thing than anything, in many cases I do think it is.

2:38:01There are a lot of people with unhealthy behaviors and psychological like tendencies to just be, you know, it's easier to be lazy than not and just, you know. It's also the food addiction because you have to eat. But there are some people who just, if you ultimately have a genetically higher baseline perpetual level of appetite signaling, it's kind of hard to tell that person. Like, just fucking, you know, wrench it out, bro. Like, you got this. And it's like, I know a lot of people in the fitness industry. Look at him, man. Look how much money he's lost. Isn't he incredible? Yeah, he's great.

2:38:34Dude, he looks fucking great. It's really amazing. No, especially impressive for individuals who are that obese to make that big of a change. It's like it's the hardest to make that first step and get that big of a weight. Yeah. And then it's momentum after that. I watched an incredible video yesterday. One of the most motivational videos I've ever seen. I'll send it to you, Jamie. It's this kid. And this guy is he's out of shape. He's he's got high body fat. And the video is him saying that he wants to work out like David Goggins for a hundred days He doesn't work out at all and he goes from I'll send it to Jimmy.

2:39:16He goes from being this guy who's like completely out of shape to At the end of the video. He does a fucking Iron Man. You found it. Yeah, so this is the guy so in the beginning in the beginning he's like kind of fat and like that's what he looks like and you know he's like motivated by Goggins so the first day he runs he gets up at 5.30 in the morning and he runs 13 miles the first day I mean he's never he doesn't run at all he doesn't work out at all he eats junk food he's running past McDonald's and shit he's all fat by the end of it he's doing an ultra well he does an ultra marathon halfway into it and then by the end of it he does an Ironman and now he regularly runs 100 mile races.

2:40:01He got down to 140 pounds. He's shredded now. It's really, really impressive. That's awesome. Because it's just all discipline. Look at the difference. 145, 9 % body fat. He started at 184, 27 % body fat. And look, he's all lean now and healthy and he's running 100 mile races now it's really amazing because he just did it with sheer willpower and documented the whole thing he's in agony his ankles all fucked up from running so he swims and he swims in the pool and then he decides to swim with weights on he like really becomes obsessed have you seen the guy who fasted for a year straight yes that's an old story right yeah but i think that's still the record for like longest period of not eating and just like adhering to a diet.

2:40:48And he got vitamin IVs. And the guy who did that, what's interesting is he also lost skin. So his skin shrank along with his body, which I thought was fascinating. Yeah. I mean, I would imagine that to some extent there's some elasticity depending on how long you've been fed and also like, I don't know, maybe just the tissue itself. There is some level of... 382 days. I'm sure your body's fiending for energy from anywhere it can find it if there's some way to, I don't know, eat itself. The interesting thing is he didn't come out of it looking like a lot of these people do where they have to get all their skin removed.

2:41:26I mean, I feel like there's got to be loose skin to some extent. Does he have a shirtless? I don't know. I don't know if it's a shirtless, but that was part of the narrative. His skin actually shrank along with his body because he wasn't eating at all. I want to see that. Does that make sense? Does that make sense to you? I was trying to play along for a sec, but now I'm like, if there's not a pick, I don't know, dude. Well, it was also, it's 1960, whatever it was. Sounds like an interesting tale that might have passed through the grapevine. Yeah, I wouldn't recommend that, though. No. That sounds crazy.

2:41:58And then once you start eating again, how do you just keep the fucking floodgates from pouring out? Yeah, I mean, that's the interesting thing. Some people, psychologically, it's easier to adhere to something when they're full bore. And then I know a lot of people who they'll do commit to a competition because they know I'm accountable to step on stage. I don't want to look like shit when I'm on stage. And they do it. They get a bunch of photos done. And then after they go off the rails and they're like right back to where they started within a month or two. That happens to a lot of fighters. They get done with fighting and then they get really fat.

2:42:30It's really common. It's really common because they also develop real eating disorders because you're cutting weight all the time. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, for some of them, it's like you're basically doing bodybuilder shit, essentially. Well, Patty Pimblitt's the best example of a current active fighter. Oh, that guy's crazy, dude. He gets so big. Dude, his moon face is like the best in the league, probably. So here it says, 382 days from June 14th, 1965 through June 30th of 1966, He consumed only vitamins, electrolytes, and unspecified amount of yeast, a source of essential amino acids, and zero-calorie beverages such as tea, coffee, and sparkling water, although he occasionally added milk and or sugar to the beverages, especially during the final weeks of the fast.

2:43:18Barbieri began his treatment in the hospital, but for most of the 382 days, he lived at home. Okay, it says stool samples were not taken, but he reportedly went up to 48 days between stools. Wow. Which sounds crazy, but it's like, what's there going to... Yeah, what will be coming out? His starting weight was 456, and the fast officially stopped July 1966. He reached his goal weight of 180 pounds. Wow. Yeah, that's nuts. The next 10 days, doctors placed him on a diet of salt and then sugar in preparation for solid food. Some sources record the fast being 392 days instead of 382. Wow. Now, one of the things that's tough is it's like, even though maybe that case study exists and there's people who just brute force willpower their way through it, some of those people otherwise might have genetically been able to tolerate, you know, the hunger signaling better than somebody else who literally cannot focus on work or anything when they're that hungry.

2:44:19And it almost sometimes doesn't even come down to the diet quality as much as somebody might tell them. Yeah, it does. It does to some extent, but it's certainly getting rid of the shitty processed foods and getting on a good exercise regimen and doing all the things to set yourself up in the best position will probably take care of most people. But there are some individuals who just like at baseline, even on the inverse side, I know a lot of people who simply aren't hungry and they have to force feed themselves to gain muscle because they're just perpetually shredded. And they have like the opposite problem because their hunger signaling is so low.

2:44:54So it's like people look at them as an example in the fitness industry of like, oh, this guy is the best discipline. He's like so shredded all the time. And in reality, that guy's like, I hate food. That's so weird. There's one guy in particular. His name's David Laid. And he's like, I don't know, like a teenage. Well, he's like in his 20s now. But teenagers look up to him as kind of like a fitness industry icon of aesthetics. And he's perpetually had a shredded six pack. He's pretty jacked. He's tall. He's handsome. and he literally says on camera, I hate eating. And he's, like, serious about it.

2:45:28He's like, I can't stand having to eat meals. What? Yeah. Oh, my God. Like, it's not even just, like, to be a bodybuilder. Like, he's just, like, I don't know. What is he eating? How is that possible? Good, high-quality food. That's a picture I can find. I can't tell. You can't tell. It looks like he's got some fat there. Yeah, it looks like he's got a bunch of extra skin there. I mean, it's just like. How could he not? Yeah. Yeah, how could he not? Find a picture of that other guy. Who's the guy that they call the most shredded guy alive? Oh, Helmet Trouble. Yes, that guy. That guy is crazy. Yeah, find that guy.

2:46:03That's ridiculous. Yeah. What is it? It's H-E-L-M-U-T. It's been a while since I've looked at this guy. And then S-T-R-E-B-L.

2:46:16Did they come up? Helmet Shredded is coming up, that guy. Helmet's treble. Is this him? Yeah. Oh, Jesus. That is insane. Yeah. I mean, that guy's physique is the man with 0 % body fat. That's hilarious. That's not possible, folks. You want to see even more shredded? Is that really possible that he's got more shredded? There's someone more shredded than that? Type in Andreas Munzer. Oh, I've seen that guy. But what is this guy's body fat? It's not zero. Zero is not possible. What is that? Six? Five? Five or six maybe. No, that would be like stage, super stage ready beyond most bodybuilders, even after the best of the best in terms of conditioning.

2:47:03So I don't know, maybe like six, seven. It's kind of tough though, dude, because it's like some of these guys, they have like. Oh, Jesus Christ. Go back to that picture. That's nuts. That's like aggressive filtering and sharpening to look at. Whatever it is. That's his real body. That's insane. Yeah. Even, I mean, it's obviously, like, the best possible lighting for that effect. There's distribution of fat and water that some people, it just looks more shredded than another person who might otherwise store any excess fat on, like, their ass or, like, their love handles or, like, whatever. For a guy like that, not only is he diced, and, like, obviously he's just diced, but He has a dry look to the skin that enhances the perceived leanness.

2:47:50And it's like, I forgot what it is. It's not dick skin lean. I forgot what the terminology is. But it's like white guy something. And it's just like if you're certain white physiques are known to look more like you're almost so pale and dry that it enhances the perceived leanness. If that makes any sense whatsoever. That's the weirdest thing about bodybuilding, right? You have to be super dehydrated to look great, and you're almost dead. Yeah, yeah. And then you have to, you know, go chocolate body and stuff. But those guys, they black out sometimes backstage, don't they? Yeah. Whoa! Yeah, that's crazy.

2:48:34Which guy is that? That's Helmut. That's him? He's at 4 % body fat. I might be totally butchering his name, by the way. Oh, my God. I hope. Bro. helmet. I hope I'm saying it right now. I would never wear a shirt. Why would I wear a shirt? He's 47? Wow. In this article, too, which is probably like 5 to 10 years old. What does he look like now? I wonder if he keeps it up because, I mean, I would be so hungry. Yeah. Unless you're on a GLP one. Oh, this is him. This is him now. Wow. That's crazy. No, that's not. It's not? Oh, somebody else put it up there? He has an IG. It doesn't seem like. That's one of the weird things when you're such an OG of the industry that you just have like weird residual fan pages and you don't even know if it's the guy or not.

2:49:20What's that old guy? He was bald. The old days. He had like the hair on the side. Scooby. Was that his name? I don't know. Maybe. White guy. He was like famous shredded guy back in the early days of bodybuilding. He was not big. He was thin, but he was like super fucking ripped. God, I can't remember his name. Was he a... But he had like the hair on the side, like weird, like old man bald. You know, didn't have a full shaved head. Old man bald. Yeah, like when people went bald in the 50s and they didn't shave the side of their head. Yeah. Fuck. I'm sure if I saw it, I wouldn't know who you're talking about.

2:49:57He was famous for teaching... You got him? I feel like you have enough... What's his name? I haven't even got a name yet, but is this him? No, no, that's not him. It's older. I bet you if you... from a long time ago. Who's the, what's your preferred AI search tool? Use that and type in what you just said. Yeah, put that into perplexity. Old man bald OG fitness influencer. You have to give me a better search for a time period like 90s, 2000s. Yeah, yeah, 90s. Yeah, 90s. 90s. Oh God, his name is at the tip of my tongue. Oh, this is driving me crazy. Super shredded? Yeah. He would teach people how to be shredded.

2:50:35He had like this protocol for how to lose weight, but his whole thing was being shredded. It wasn't that big. I mean, he was, you know, fit, but not like, you know, bodybuilder jacked. And he was Caucasian? Yes. Wow. Yeah. It's telling me Billy Blanks. No, no, no, no, no, no. White guy. Fuck. I was going to say Athlean X, but there's no way that's who you're talking about. No, no, no, no. She's got great hair. It's a long time ago. No, Athlean X has got wonderful hair. It's Tony Little. It's not right either. Speaking of hair, there's that new thing that is the study out of UCLA where they're going to be able to grow hair back.

2:51:09Yeah. Isn't that wild? Are you pumped? You don't believe it? No. Dude, it's like every week it's some new thing. Like rodent re-grew hair after being shaved bald using UCLA-mediated broccoli extract or whatever the fuck. And it's like now every Reddit scientist is dumping fucking broccoli juice on their head or whatever. It just like never really pans out ultimately. And it's pretty shocking. I think I even mentioned this at one point that we have all these, you know, refined AI tools and drugs and some of the most developed and refined side of nearly side effect free drugs for some things that are pretty significant, you know, roots of disease.

2:51:47But like hair loss, like no one has a clue. Right. How to fix it with or dick size. Hair loss and dick size. Two big ones. We know to max out your genetic capacity for dick size. that well the nuttiest thing that i've been paying attention lately is so many guys that are getting their legs broken to get taller i got an update on that guy if you want the sasquatch guy yeah how's he doing well uh i mean he's walking but it's like not perfect but it's been a few years right yeah but he's also like the most extreme edge case example of it's almost if it if it was unfair to use a guy as a reference point it's like this is the heaviest tallest right example So it's like if anyone was going to have it.

2:52:26Because he was six feet when he started and he got to 6 '6". And he was not walking like a year later. Yeah. He needed crutches. He said, let's see. I could send this to you if you wanted to put it up on the screen or I could just show you here. Yeah, just text it to me. What is he? Is he okay? I mean, he got sued by the company that did his surgery. He got sued? Yeah. Why did he get sued? Because he was talking about all like the mishaps that happened when he got, because it's kind of like there are good clinics and bad clinics in terms of quality. And he kind of was, I guess, too forthcoming about like I did a podcast with them and they didn't like it.

2:53:08They're suing him. Yeah. Literally. Well, they did sue him. Yeah. How can you sue someone for telling the truth about a procedure that didn't work out so great? I mean, great question. That's what I said. How could you win? Maybe you could sue someone for a lot of things. Maybe it's just like bury them in fees or something. I don't know. Yeah, probably. All right, check. See if this came through. Hopefully my LTE is good. Nope, not yet. You can airdrop it to my computer if it pops up. Okay. Yeah, there you go.

2:53:44All right. So are you still fucked? Yeah, one sec. God damn, man.

2:53:55yeah it's uh i was watching this guy uh yesterday on instagram this uh fairly thin kid he wasn't wasn't big but he he gained five inches you know he was like five five now he's five ten and he's real happy with it but i was like jesus christ and a year later again in crutches one year later took him a year and a half before he could walk normally i mean some people that's still worth it to not have to, yeah. I guess, yeah. I mean, if you're five feet tall and then all of a sudden you're 5 '7", I guess. Here, see if it, did it come through for you? Yeah, yeah, I was trying to figure out what to play.

2:54:28I airdropped it for you guys. Oh, I got it. I got it on the screen. Nice. Okay. So this is 2023. Oh, wow, he did it way back then? Yeah, it's been almost like... Oh, my God, look how skinny his legs are. That's crazy how skinny his legs were. To have that much mass up top, that's crazy. Yeah. That's probably the problem, right? Well, it definitely is, like I said, the most extreme of circumstances to impose for what was seemingly a poor quality clinic. And then also trying to go from a height that's objectively tall to a height that's objectively extremely tall with the most heavy guy that's probably ever done the procedure, you would think.

2:55:09Yeah. Well, he's 300 pounds. I think he was way more than that. You would say, like, hey, man, if you're going to do this, lose upper body weight and then gain it back. So you can give your legs a chance to grow. Oh, my God, that's so crazy. It just makes me freak out because I'm getting anxiety that's just going to snap and he's going to fall over. Yeah, there definitely is something a little bit unnatural about watching even, like, the strikes on the ground. Yeah, his gate. It makes you feel like something's just going to, like. Snap. Yeah. Yeah, but to his credit, I mean, like, the guy literally couldn't even walk before, and he's optimistic about it still, and he thinks he's going to make a full recovery.

2:55:45There is now November 2025, so that's two years later. Two years later, he can walk. What if he has to run from a fire? You know what I mean? Yeah, he's fucked. For sure. Yeah. Well, also the mechanics. Like, your body's used to moving legs that are six inches shorter, and now, like, the knee has different pressure, and, you know, it's got to be really fucking strange. He said, let's see, bones are mostly healed, just have a lot of weakness. As legs strengthen, the pain decreases and the spasms. Also, he's got to be on the sauce too, right? Yeah. Yeah. So even that's not helping? I mean, if anything, it would help in some of the recovery for bone, but it would also keep him yoked and more pressure on that too.

2:56:31So maybe it's a bit of a double-edged sword there. He says, major hurdles cleared. Infection, knee tendinopathy. We'll probably walk normal within a couple months. I can hop, but we'll need to strengthen much more in order to really jump, jog, and run. Applying to have a U.S. doctor fully fix any remaining issues, but for now, legs are good. Where did he get his surgery done? I did a podcast with him last year, and I think it was Thailand Clinic. Oh, boy. He did a bargain. He got a bargain. Did he do a Groupon? It definitely wasn't the best choice. This guy got it? He's nine years post-surgery.

2:57:09They were doing this nine years ago? So this guy, as far as I know, he is a bit of a unique case in that he was actually correcting an asymmetry. I'm almost positive. I don't want to misspeak. I'm sure he'll correct it if he sees this. But I'm pretty sure he had one leg was like unusually asymmetrically shorter than the other one. And then he was kind of evening it out to what would otherwise be his, you know, like genetic symmetrical match. Oh, interesting. So there's different applications to which people do this. And it's not always just like pure vanity. I want to get, you know, really tall.

2:57:48It's sometimes like to correct a functional like asymmetry. It's just, you know, a lot of people you hear about the cases of I want to get really tall for superficial reasons. It's just a matter of time before they're just genetically engineering everybody to look like Thor. You know? This is a matter of time. I think there's a lot of people that don't want this to work, though, too, because it's like if it's almost too easy or, like, you know, doable, it's just like some people. I say a lot of people unreasonably shit on these people, and it's just like, you know, just take the content for what it is, you know?

2:58:23Yeah, no, that's true. But what I'm saying about with the genetic engineering, there's a lot of people that are going to not want that to work either, but tough shit. You're not going to hold back science because you don't like the fact that, especially if someone has poor genetics and they just look gross and their whole life they've looked gross. And then all of a sudden something comes along and it's like, what? And now you're a fucking supermodel and you're six foot six and like, Mike, it's you? What the fuck happened? I went to this clinic in Turkey and look what they did. Yeah, that was like you were asking about what.

2:58:52Did we talk about this before? bone smashing. What? I just saw a video about this and thought it was fake, but this seems like a place to find out if it's real. Oh, yeah, so people are like bait. With a hammer? Yeah. What? Whatever they can do. I'm pretty sure this is not like an, it's like a clickbaity thing among the people that do this stuff. Wait a minute, wait a minute. He's hitting himself with a fucking hammer? A kid was just using like a trophy, just banging his face all day. He's like, I've been doing this for years. So they like think that they can They can induce acute bone remodeling in the area to kind of enhance, I don't know, zygoma development or what have you, and get better whatever asymmetry or deficiency they deem to have cosmetically corrected.

2:59:38And some of them, they're just punching their face, essentially, before they go out at nighttime to get a temporary pump in their cheeks. So I think about back in the day when you went to the club and you're like I want to push-ups first yeah My god You're laughing and they're probably like the same thing you're fucking punching your cheekbones to get them stick out more. Oh god. It's so dumb There's so much out there man. Yeah, uh, listen man. This is great Congratulations on this so for everybody that wants to buy it gorilla mind And I've been drinking it for two hours now, three almost. It's great.

3:00:15Works. Oh, thank you, man. I appreciate that. I feel like I haven't had a cup of coffee in the entire podcast. That's unusual for me. But it tastes good, too. How many flavors you got? A lot, man. 15 plus. 15? We've got to narrow it down to the best ones, though, to really dial in the catalog. If somebody wants to buy this, order it. Where is it at? Gorillamind.com. We're in GNCs, vitamin shops across the country. We're going to be in Circle K soon and soon to be more spots, hopefully. Congratulations on that. And for everything else that you do, GorillaMind.com. Yeah, yeah. And MerrickHealth.com if you want to get preventative medicine, expert oversight when it comes to diagnostics, optimization, et cetera.

3:00:57All right, brother. Well, it's always good to hang out with you. Very fun. Thanks for having me, man. My pleasure. My pleasure. And again, congratulations. This is legit. Thank you. I'm going to buy it. All right. Bye, everybody. See you.

3:01:18We'll see you next time.

3:01:22And Doug. Here we have the Lemu-emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Uh, Lemu, is that guy with the binoculars watching us? Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need at LibertyMutual.com. Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. Savings vary. Unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.

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Derek is the fitness educator and entrepreneur behind the "More Plates, More Dates" YouTube channel, podcast, and companion website.www.moreplatesmoredates.com

www.youtube.com/@MorePlatesMoreDates

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