#2426 - Cameron Hanes & Adam Greentree

28:59Yeah, it wouldn't have been a great feeling. He told the story on the podcast and it was just like, fuck that, man. You only have two bullets, you fucking asshole. Like, what is wrong with you? Two bullets and one life. What are you, what? What the fuck are you doing, man? You know there's wolves out there. I killed a bull in New Mexico one year and I killed it late in the afternoon. So we did a pack out. This is just going back to the mountain lion story. We did a pack out with meat, went back in, in the dark with head torches. And as we're walking in, I seen a couple of eyes or whatever, and it was just like deer, mule deer or something like that.

29:34And then I'm like, oh, there's another deer up in front of us. And as we got closer, the eyes were too high. And it's just like, no, that's not a deer. And it was a mountain lion up in the tree. Like it was right up in the tree. There was the kill there. That lion stayed in the tree while we grabbed more meat and packed it out. You grabbed his meat? Yeah. The mountain lion's meat? Well, it was his kill. Oh, it was your kill. It was my kill. And I was going back in for it and just thinking it was a set of deer eyes. And as we're walking up, the eyes were like up in the tree. and um that's like so i've only seen two that's one of them and it was in the dark and i swear if it was daylight i would have seen one in my whole entire hunting did you see cam's brother's story on on instagram oh my god cam's brother was running late at night in california at night in california and what should we play it yeah did we ever play it on the show i think we might have we might have did you yeah yeah i know you mentioned it fucking terrifying yeah yeah It's terrifying.

30:38I've never seen that in Australia, by the way. What's your brother's name again? Taylor. Taylor. It's like T-Spike. Yeah. Yeah. Taylor. So it's my stepdad and mom had two kids, Taylor and Megan. Oh, okay. So those are my brothers, or brother and sister. And he does ultras too, right? Yeah, he's actually really good. Yeah. Really good. He seemed like one of them dudes who had to get it in. No, he's a stud. You know, he had to get it in at night. He's definitely a stud. He did a 300-mile race just last year. He got competing, trying to win the thing, of course, but got second. Wow. The Arizona Monster 300.

31:12That's insane. Oh, my God. That hurts my hips and my joints. That's the level he's at. 300 miles or 300 kilometers? Miles. That makes it so much worse. You were thinking about kilometers. I thought you were an American now. Didn't we convert you? Yeah. We were trying to teach you inches the other night. I got shit under my lip for some reason. It's an American thing. You guys don't have pouches? It's probably illegal over there. Probably. They'll take it away. Government's going to control it. Yeah, how's that working out? You can do that, but you have to wear a mask. Did you find Taylor's video?

31:46I think it's on his Instagram. Yeah, it is. It's definitely. Did I send it to you at one point in time, maybe? I just found a video of you talking about it. Ah! Unless he took it down. I don't think he took it down. What is his Instagram handle? It's tspike, something like that. tspike something. Yeah, I'll find it. T-Spike, 300 miles. Coming in second place in 300 miles is bananas. That's insane. Yeah. And meanwhile, how much difference was there between him and number one? I think a couple hours probably. Oh, God. Wow. That's insane. Oh, God. But it took, I think he did it in 88 hours. That is nuts, man.

32:23That's a serious effort. That is a serious effort. There's some freaks out there for sure. I'll do it one day. He's one of them. Are you going to do it one day for real? Yeah. T spike to couple more. On Instagram. What Jamie? I don't know where the video is. Okay, I'll find it. I'll find it. Yeah, he's oh, it's me talking about it. That's what oh, he must have reshared that or something. Here it is. I found it right away. Which it's just his face when you see his face staring at the camera. It says line. Oh, you got it. Okay, it says the lion update. Yeah, this is it. Give me some volume. A restless night of this reoccurring dream of these green eyes hot on my tail.

32:58I was coming down the trail last night just after dark. and I see these green eyes off to the side of the trail. I mean, right on the side of the trail. What I thought was a coyote, I just kind of yelled, and then when it stood up, I realized it was a fucking mountain lion. I took off running as hard as I could, and I looked over my shoulder, and it was right behind me. I ran for probably 100 yards and realized it wasn't giving up, and I turned around, and I kicked rocks, and I jumped up and down, and I screamed at the top of my lungs, and this thing did not care. I did that a few times to the point that at one point I almost thought, I'm just going to lay down here and die because I'm not going to outrun this fucking thing.

33:43Another time it got really close to me and I thought I had no choice but to try to scare it. And I turned and I screamed and I kicked rocks. I mean, to the point it was, I mean, it was right, right there. and I finally decided, well, you just got to run, run for your fucking life. Um, I've done some crazy shit in my life. I've been pretty scared, but this, this was next level. This was next level. It terrified me. Um, you know, I think maybe if I'd had a gun, I could have done something, uh, pepper spray. I don't think that it was so close that I would have probably pepper sprayed myself. So I don't know.

34:25Um, I was a half mile from the city, uh, in Lake forest, California. I mean, like straight up, I can hear dogs barking. And at one point I thought maybe that's what kind of detoured it, but I didn't care. Um, so this morning I'm gonna ride the bike. Um, probably won't go back out there in the dark. Um, I did weigh her off of the sheriff's department and fishing game because there was other hikers on the trail that were above me that would have had to have come down and I just don't know how other people would have responded. Like I said, I've done some scary shit. I've been in the woods my whole life but this was next level.

35:07It was terrifying but I'm all good. Back at it, right? I guess if this only happens one time in your life, I got it out of the way. I'm a lucky fucker. Have a good day, all. Keep at it. It doesn't work like that.

35:23That's wild. That is the consequences of letting monsters live in your neighborhood. Yeah. That's real. And all these wilderness-loving people, I guarantee you, you're not out there as much as that guy is. I guarantee you're not out there as much as you are. You are. That's the difference between people that really understand what we're talking about and people that are looking at this from this knee-jerk love and compassion for nature perspective. Well, back to what Cam said, it's like the majority of the votes are people that don't get in that environment. Yeah. You know, and it's not just about hunting.

35:55That's for farmers anywhere as well. There's people in the city that are making votes for people that live in the country, and the lifestyle is completely different. And they don't understand what they're talking about, especially the BC band. Like, we're going to ban trophy hunting. Trophy hunting's bad. But what about monster control? Isn't that good? I'm on fucking team people, okay? I love animals, but I am on team people. Imagine if they knew how soft we were. They don't have to spit out hair. The flesh is right here. It's soft. It's so easy to get into. Because they usually go in at the stomach or the ass.

36:31It's like our stomach, how soft is it? Straight for the organs. It's right to the good stuff. Not good. If they knew. I don't think people, like even a dog can turn into, like I killed a buck before we went on that last time. I killed a buck. And like for the treat for the dog, you cut off the nuts, give them the nuts. So it's got hide on it. It's got the bucks nuts. Basically dog takes off. They're just like ripping into it. It's like delicacy, right? That's just a normal dog. So a lion who's born and bred to kill. I mean, that's just the level of what animals do. Your liver is a ribeye and they haven't eaten in a week.

37:15You're like, oh, baby. Look at that liver. It's right there.

37:48for children under 13, only in theaters this Christmas. This episode is brought to you by Monster Ultra. Everybody knows the white monster. That clean, white can, zero sugar, crisp. It's everywhere lately. Gyms, your favorite convenience store, studios, you name it. I see people toss it into their bag before training or a long drive. Big flavor, zero sugar, that same monster energy kick. But Ultra didn't stop there. There's a whole lineup now. Vice Guava Blue Hawaiian and the new Wild Passion. My favorite is Strawberry Dreams. It's smooth and sweet with a touch of tart strawberry flavor. And if you're loyal to the white can, cool.

38:30Just know that you've got options. Visit MonsterEnergy.com to learn more. Yep. Yeah. And those dogs there at that deer camp, you give them like part of the, I don't know, there's some skin. it's not the flank steak but it's just some skin there that sometimes you cut off that goes over the stomach and uh run off eat that eat pounds and pounds of meat a regular dog so a lion yeah they'll eat what they do is they just eat as much meat as they can and they just kind of lay around so that's the time to actually run from a lion is after a big meal you know what i mean because their stomachs are full of meat maybe that's why taylor maybe that lion that chased him had just killed a deer and was full of protein but you know they still hunt that's what they do it's their instinct but sometimes you can time it right and maybe that's saves your life yeah geez don't that's not a risk we should be taking no this is if you can avoid it it's always better it's like they're so hard to find people don't understand you're not going to put a dent in their population this is not like any other it's not like deer you can depopulate a deer like an environment of deer If you went crazy and hunted them all and you said, let's eradicate all the deer.

39:43Every hunter, you can shoot as many deer as you want. Just let's go do it right now. You can get rid of all the deer. You ain't ever doing that with cats. They're too sneaky. Not now. Not now. Even in Australia with buffalo, you can fly and eliminate a lot of stuff. Pigs here, deer, buffalo down there, the water buffalo. But you're not doing helicopter killing of lions. No. You can do wolves. You can do wolves. They'll lower wolf populations that way. And they do. They do in some parts of the world. They do in Alaska, right? Yeah. They do wolf kills from helicopters. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, lions are just tough.

40:21They're so fucking sneaky. I didn't even realize this, but Oregon, as we were looking at those numbers that Jamie pulled up, Oregon, the goal is 970 lions a year, but we never get to it. Right. So what that means is we're not meeting our objective of lion kills. That means there's more and more lions every year. Don't they factor that into the amount of tags they give, though, that there's going to be a limited amount of success? So they'll give more tags than they actually need to kill? For lions? For lions, do they do that? Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm not sure how they do it. It's supposed to be like a balance.

40:54Right. But what happens is not enough lions are getting killed, so there's too many lions. So that means the lions are killing too many deer. No, because the lion number is too high. Right. And that's what's kind of happening. There's areas in Oregon that were great hunting at one time that are terrible now. Well, here's a perfect example. Where I used to live in California, you guys have been in my house, a lot of land, a lot of woods, a lot of like, there's a lot of like wildlife out there. Good luck finding a deer. You might find two, three in a month, in a month. I see deer every fucking day out here.

41:30I see them every day. You know why? No mountain lions and you can shoot them. California has a mountain lion problem. Like it's a real problem. Yeah. The place, the Tejon Ranch, that place, they had a camera out in front of one of their ponds and they got 16 different mountain lions on that camera. 16. Yeah. And what the people in L.A., they have no idea what's going on, but they're voting. Right. That's who controls what's - And voting with their hearts. Yeah. Well, and they're good people and I would have voted with them. Right. Okay. If I had never been hunting and never been in the woods, I would have voted with him.

42:06Maybe not. Maybe not because I'm a little fucking skeptical of people's wisdom. And I probably would have looked into it a little bit and thought about what it would be like to get eaten by a mountain lion and go, what the fuck are we talking about? Kill these goddamn things. Are you fucking crazy? Don't kill them all. You don't have to kill them all. They're going to exist in the woods where they're supposed to be. They're not supposed to be in Pasadena. They're not supposed to be wandering around the fucking Hollywood Hills. like that one that I have the big picture of. I know. That one's crazy.

42:35That line, that picture is insane. Insane. The Hollywood sign behind him and he's wearing a collar. That picture to me embodies like everything that's wrong with California. Like you know where he is and he's in the neighborhood where people live and you just put a collar on him so you could track him when he's fucking killing dogs. Like what are you saying? You know how many kids, look at that photo. Yeah. That is a sick photo. That is. That's one of the most amazing photos ever. Ever taken. As soon as I saw that photo, I'm like, oh, my God, we have to buy a print. What do you think he's thinking?

43:06We ordered it from the photographer. What is he thinking? What am I going to kill next? And why is this fucking thing on my neck? What greater dog is the most tastiest? That's right above where Huberman used to live. Oh, dude, it's right there. By the way, we filmed Fear Factor out there a bunch of times. Yeah. Look at that fucker. Oh, I know. Oh, my God. Look at his face. Imagine wandering into that. That thing is so big. How sick of a photo is that? Amazing. Yeah. And it's all camera traps. Yeah. So, but here's what's so critical. And, you know, hunters, we can be our own worst enemies. But part of what discussions like this and talking about how it actually works is so important.

43:46It's not for other hunters. It's for people who don't hunt, who do vote. You know, it's like, hey, let's just educate people who don't understand. It's not your fault you don't understand. You haven't hunted your whole life. That's okay. but just listen to what we're saying and just say like hey when that vote comes up and it's like we're talking about you know being able to hunt lions with dogs or black bear with bait let's think about hey there's repercussions if we don't allow this yeah you know they don't just don't know what it is it sounds cruel lions with dogs like oh that's not even fair yeah you want to hunt it with a spear if you want to hunt it like we used to hunt them hunt it with a spear your bear No, bare hands is what I see.

44:25Kill with your bare hands. That's the dumbest argument. That's the dumbest. How do you think we got to the point where we don't have fangs, you fucking dolt? We got there. We evolved past that because we figured out weapons, okay? And that's why we can have cities. And a caveman never kills shit with their hands. At least they had a fucking wooden spear. So what are you talking about, bare hands? It's the dumbest fucking argument of all time. And it's also people that don't understand that we would have never had civilization if we didn't do this. It wouldn't exist. The conversation doesn't come from a want perspective from me.

44:58I've got no desire to hunt a mountain lion again. I don't. But as someone that's in the know, because I have before, you know, and I wanted to educate myself prior to that hunt, I was doing as much reading as I could to find out, do I feel good about this? Is, yeah, so it's not like I want them still on the list to hunt because I want to go and do it again. I don't have a desire to do that again myself, but I do see that it's good management, you know, and instead of them being culled and not utilized, you know, and it's actually costing money, you know, there's money going into conservation at that point from the hunter and the meat's utilized, you know, and as you mentioned in, in that case, I gave that meat to a lot of people because I wanted people to see it as a food source as well, you know, as in, cause you do, You sort of think of the mountain lion, you're like, the meat was amazing.

45:49Some of the most incredible meat I've ever had. I mean, even if, so just say they didn't require you to take the meat and you didn't eat it. Still, they need to be killed. That's all there is to it. Just to make the deer and elk population, just to make it work like it has to work because humans, people will always say, well, Mother Nature will take care of itself. It's like, no, humans have encroached on this habitat. That's why we need to control this. This isn't like the wide open West that it once was where, yeah, maybe it'd work out eventually. It's not going to work out. They were here first.

46:21They were here first. We're part of the system, 100%. And Adam, you know, he said he's killed one. He doesn't plan on killing another. I've never killed one. I've never killed a lion in my entire life, but I know it's important. So it's not like I'm this big lion hunter that I just have this passion for doing and I want to kill as many as possible. Never even killed one. But I know that we have to kill them. and in Colorado there that's one thing you know you talk about sex and the animal up on up in the tree because you can see what it is male female you don't when I hunted them I did hunt them I didn't kill but you could kill any lion essentially if it didn't have you know it couldn't be a female with cubs but uh or kittens but um you look at them in the tree and you can decide oh that's a female probably not the best kill let's kill an old male because it's just that's how it just works better that way taking old males out and uh but you can do that and same thing with baiting bear a bear comes in a bear is really tough to tell whether it's a boar or sow that's male or female for those that don't know but at a bait when you're looking very closely you can see oh that's an old male that's one i want to take so that's why that's why there's it's not just random like i'm rifle hunting is 400 yards away running and you kill like a bear and it has has cubs you didn't realize it had cubs because the cubs are in a tree somewhere that the sow left.

47:37So that's where baiting is actually the best way to manage these numbers. And it might seem like, oh, you just throw out donuts and this and that and the bear comes in. I mean, yeah, you could term it like that or you could say, no, we're targeting the right animal to make this work the best way it can. Well, people need to understand that wildlife biologists and the numbers that they put up and the rules that they apply, especially the rational rules like that, they exist because it's the only effective way to hunt these things. You don't use dogs to hunt elk, you know what I'm saying? Because it doesn't seem right.

48:10There's one effective way to get these mountain lions and you've got to tree them. If you don't have that option and you're bow hunting, you have to stumble upon one. They're going to know you're coming forever before you know they're there. Forever. Hundreds of yards away. They're going to smell you. They'll hear something. They'll turn and look at it. They have amazing eyesight. You know, like you're not finding them. And if you want to keep the populations in check, there's like California's got a bear problem, too. And part of their bear problem is you can't use dogs anymore. Yeah. And it was the only way they could really control populations in a lot of these places.

48:47Dogs are baiting. Hey, Jamie, I got another project. So Cam Cannaday, you start spelled with a K. As we were talking about, he had a deer tag. He's deer hunting. In Oregon, this is what you do. You just buy a bear and a lion tag just to have with you. But he killed this giant lion. He was deer hunting. This lion came up, sat on this rock 40 yards away. And he's just like, I got a lion tag. Perfect. Boom. Got put a perfect arrow in this giant lion. But look at this thing. And he's a big dude. He's a slob. He played for the Steelers for like six years in the NFL. Yeah. So that was just like a happen chance.

49:28That's how you get them in Oregon. because you can't use dogs. You can't do anything else. So that lion just jumped up there, and he made a perfect shot on it. That's crazy. But look at that big thing. God. Yeah, pretty nuts. And like I said, Cam's like 6 '4", I don't know, 230. You ever see the one Derek Wolf killed? Yeah, that was a giant one too. Giant one. So the Derek Wolf story is a great one too because he took so much heat online about it. People were so angry at him that he did that. And it's just people that don't understand why it's necessary. And first of all, if you know Derek, Derek's a fucking legit Viking.

50:05He's a legit Viking. That guy's a giant human being. So for him to be holding, is there another picture we see like the full length picture? That's it. There's the full length picture. 180 pounds or something? Look at the size of that fucking thing. Yeah. So you, and I don't know what the numbers are, but you think a lion kills, especially a lion that big has to basically kill a deer every week right so that's 365 deer a year that thing is killed or no not 52 deer a year but every day no but do you know the wolf thing possibly they say lions are killing more deer now than ever in places where there's wolves because the wolves scare the lion off the kill the wolf they steal them all the time so the lions just give up and they go kill another one right they can kill way easier than the deer can they're way more effective killers so think about so 50 say 50 lion or 50 deer a year for each lion how many lions are in Colorado a lot a lot you know I mean that's a lot of fucking deer or or elk calves or something's being killed yeah Australia's got a real bad problem with shark population now and it's like and I'm taking it there because what's happening is for like a really good eaten fish like a red emperor um you'll only get like five red emperor that's your that's your quota for the day you can only catch five and what the sharks are doing now is you'll hook a red emperor and the sharks will just take it off the line so you don't have a red emperor in the boat anymore but one's dead because the shark's got it so you keep fishing and then so now the red emperor numbers are declining because sharks that's if like their favorite fish to jump to grab off a line.

51:48You can catch a cod, you'll get it to the boat because the sharks aren't going for it. But if it's a red fish, the sharks are taking it constantly. And then, so what's happened is because there's been a ban on shark fishing, shark numbers have gotten out of control. So now Red Emperor numbers have plummeted because the sharks are just eating them constantly. How many people in Australia get killed by sharks every year? There's been a few this year already. Yeah, I actually just had my girlfriend out a couple of, maybe a month or two ago. and I took her to this beautiful beach and it was awesome.

52:20As soon as we got there, there's dolphins jumping out of the water and whatnot. Anyway, we never went for a swim just because of how the conditions were. And a week later, a lady was taken from that beach and her partner may have died as well. I didn't follow up on the story, but a partner got attacked as well, but got out of the water. And it's great why it's mostly on the East Coast. They seem to be running pretty rampant at the moment. Again, kill them. It's the bleeding hearts that are making the votes. Four confirmed fatal shark attacks in 2025 so far, with some trackers listing four or five deaths, depending on how incidents are classified.

53:02But think about how much less people are out there in the water than on the ground. Oh, yeah. That's the thing. It's like people go, there's only four shark attacks a year. Right, but how many people are in the water? Yeah, out of 500 people. Yeah, it's not a lot of people in the water swimming out there. It would be a horrible way to go. Oh, good Lord. Absolute monster of the ocean. Oh. Yeah, isn't it weird to think that, I mean, most society doesn't know anything about the wild these days. You know, I mean. Yeah, we're domesticated. Yeah, so it's, but even like, I don't know, I always say that, I mean, we talked about this, I'm pretty sure, because I talk about it all the time.

53:43But like I always think that society like this regular life here is fake. It's like it's not even not even real. It's not even how humans were designed to to live and survive where the wild is actually where that's how that's what we're designed to do. Live in the mountains or hunt and survive, things like that. And so the fake life, I don't know. It's just crazy to me to think about that. The fake life is what we think of as a real life. And it's not it's not real. It's like what we're doing, yeah, it's just not real life. Yeah. We're made to live in a society that's not by mine or your design.

54:21Right. And it's sort of like, and that's what I always feel out of it in society because I just feel like it's not for me. But it's here and we've got to live in it. I do like going the Waste of Worlds and getting a good injection. But I just want to go when I want to go. That's the way to do it. Attack it from the outside. Yeah. Go in, go to a nice restaurant, get back out to the country and just fucking relax. It's better for people. You ever see that, the old days of Vice, when Vice used to do really cool stuff. They had Vice guide to travel. And there's this one guy who lives in the Arctic Circle.

54:59And this dude is, he's been there since the 1970s. He got a job up there and got permitted where he's like grandfathered in to allow to live in a small cabin up there. Like the last guy there. He has like a permit on his door. And this guy has been living up there ever since he saw 9-11 in a photograph like a year after it happened. Had no idea what was going on. Very smart guy. Like intelligent, interesting guy. And lives up there with his wife. And all he does is hunt caribou and fish. And he talks about it. And he's like, this is how people are supposed to live. Like when you – he's not like – he's a very intelligent guy.

55:38So like when he's talking about he's talking it from like an internal programming like this is like This feeling that you get living like this is how people are supposed to live and when you live like this You're very fulfilled and it feels normal whereas most people don't feel normal. Most people are depressed They have anxiety. They're worried about their career. They're worried about all this stuff that is like human created They're worried about our our their social status when they're ostracized from the neighborhood or people like them anymore because their political beliefs or whatever the fuck it is.

56:10There's none of that out there. There's none of that because it's what, though it's the way we were designed. But if we want all the things that we enjoy, like fucking Starlink and cell phones, like you have to have this weird fake world that we've created the human created world, but it's not conducive to like a healthy mindset for most people. It's not normal. And so all the, I have this thought about why exercise is so important for people's mental health. Because I think at the very least what it does is it gives you like the physical exertion that your body requires. But I think your body requires a connection as well.

56:52And that's what we're missing. We're missing the natural world connection. And you can get some of that out of the physical exercise. You can get some of that out of like doing, but your body's literally designed to have to move and to complete tasks in order to survive. And that task could be like that guy out there hunting caribou, building a house, surviving, like making a homestead, growing a garden. Like this is a normal way we are, but we're moving into this abnormal way. And along the way, people are losing their fucking marbles. Everyone's crazy. No one knows what a woman is anymore. Like everyone literally out of their fucking mind.

57:31Out of their mind. If the left win, the democracy will fall. If the right win, we're all going to be Nazis. And it's just chaos. And none of it is normal. None of it is natural. And the reason why it's so incompatible with most people is because we're not designed for it. I feel it. I know Cam's the same, but like it's just like time doing those things that are usually in a quieter environment, in a more natural environment. Like I mentally feel better. every time and then i i almost feel myself slipping when i come back to the city you know and it's just like you sort of start letting your guard down you just slip back into it and you're like this is i'm not enjoying this and then you go back out hunting for us or camping or whatever it is and then i do i feel revitalized i feel healthier mentally and physically i feel healthier and then but adding all the other things to it you know like you talk about like you know exercise and Yeah, it does touch on it.

58:26And I think all those little things help. But to really get out in fresh air is the big one for me where it's just I do. I feel more flow state. I wonder if like I'm sure Nate, like a primitive man felt emotions for sure. But do you think they felt depressed? No. I think you know what I mean? I feel like they were too busy. I think that's survive. I think people I think this is part of this fake society is like, are you happy? Are you happy? It's like, happy? What the fuck is happy? I want to be useful out there. I want to do something. I'm not happy. I'm nothing. What is happy? I'm content just being.

59:08Right. Can you be content just being? Yeah. When you're in the mountains carrying your bow, glassing, looking, drinking, eating, looking for a place to sleep. What is that? That's what I want. I don't know what it is. but that's like purpose. Like I have a purpose. I'm, I'm trying to kill something that is that happy. You're trying to find food to me. That feels because I don't know what happy is. I see people, they laugh and they're fucking around. Sometimes it's, it's a alcohol induced or drug induced. There's like, is that supposed to be happy? What is that? I don't know. I don't know what, what are we, what are we calling happy?

59:50Cause that's not like a little kid laughing at a birthday party, but are those both are they both happy? The fight no one saw coming. Jake Paul versus Anthony Joshua live on Netflix. December 19th. Two worlds collide in the ring and DraftKings Sportsbook has the action covered. Bet on every round every knockout moment. with live betting and fast payouts. You're always ringside for the action. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app today. New customers bet just$5, and if your bet wins, you'll instantly get paid$200 in bonus bets with the code ROGAN. That's code ROGAN in partnership with DraftKings.

1:00:36The crown is yours. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. In New York, call 877-8HOPE &Y or text HOPE &Y467369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort in Kansas, pass-through of per-wager tax may apply in Illinois. 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Restrictions apply. Bet must win to receive bonus bets which expire in seven days. Minimum odds required. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.co slash audio. Limited time offer.

1:01:10Well, there's different kinds of happiness, right? Yeah, I don't know. You get on a fun date, you know, there's happiness you get when you you know You do fun stupid shit like you go play Like sandbox games you pretend you're shooting zombies with VR. That's happy. It's fun. It's silly You get it out of it. Everyone has a smile. You had a good time. That was wild That's happy too. There's a bunch of different kinds of happy and some of it we've created But there's content like are you content like are you enjoying your existence? Yeah, I think that's a real struggle for a lot of people right because there's always giant percentage of the people that are listening to this right now that are forced to do something they don't enjoy doing most of the time.

1:01:51Most of the time, most of their day, they're doing something they don't enjoy doing because they have to do it in order to do the things that they do enjoy. So if you want to go on vacation, you got to make enough money to afford the trip to Hawaii. If you want to do this, you got to do that. If you want to do this, you got to do that. You're like, and so you're just working in some stupid cubicle, punching keys, just planning all the fun stuff you're going to do with the money that you make doing this thing you hate doing it's pretty nuts it's i've never i've never felt happy in that that's what i'm saying i don't happen to do something to get to somewhere right sometimes you have to be unhappy that's true too and you're the wrong person to be commenting on this because you're extreme you're never going to be happy because you're going to continue to chase bigger and better yeah that's what i say Which is good.

1:02:36That's awesome. I don't know. I mean, and I mentioned this before, I'm happiest when I'm suffering. Yeah. That's ridiculous. No, but like, doesn't it feel like? Adam and I, we just looked at each other. He's fucking crazy. No, because when I'm suffering, it's because I'm doing something that matters to me. Right. Yeah, you like that. Yeah. And you know what's on the other side. That's what makes it better, too. Yeah, you've sort of programmed yourself to be like that, too. You know, this is like similar to Goggins, right? Goggins always wants people to know that he wasn't always like this, that he used to be fat and lazy.

1:03:12And he shows pictures of himself at 300 pounds. He always talks about it. You know, it's like, I wasn't born like this. Like, I turned myself into this. And I think one of the reasons why you've been able to struggle so much is that you've figured out a way to enjoy struggle. And a lot of people avoid struggle at all costs. They want the couch. Oh, I want to relax. It's cold out. I don't want to get in that fucking cold plunge. Are you crazy? What's wrong with you? You know, I love struggle because you know what's on the other side Yeah, the growth done it so it's like once you've done that I think that's where a lot of people struggle if they quit or they don't get to the other side Then you don't know the reward on it.

1:03:52What you just said is perfect. That's why they struggle because they don't struggle It's like the thing you're avoiding is causing you to have the exact same thing It's just you're getting a slow dose of that poison and you never get out of it. Whereas if you voluntarily struggle, then you get this beautiful feeling when it's over. But you're not doing that. So you're just getting the same amount of struggle in these weird little slow doses all day long. So you're never getting like, oh, my God, I'm in agony. I can't breathe. But if you did, then the rest of the day would be easy. Instead, you're getting, oh, my God, the world is closing in on me and I don't know why I'm so freaked out.

1:04:29and I'm riddled with anxiety all day long for no fucking reason. I'm having a panic attack, and there's nothing wrong. That's what's going on. You're getting your suffering in little doses all day long, and it's driving you fucking crazy. And that's why you get on SSRIs, and that's why you do this, and that's why you do that, and you join a cult. And everyone's just trying to figure out a way to feel better. Everyone's just trying to figure out a way to feel better. And one of the ways to feel better is voluntary struggling. Yeah, you got a volunteer to put yourself in stressful situations difficult situations do it on purpose If you do that, then the regular world is easier yeah, it's a I think like I'm always of course biased towards hunting in the mountains, but also think that men men specifically You know where I grew up in an environment.

1:05:22I grew up hunters were respected and if you killed a big buck, you're like that meant something in a small town i was because it's very difficult to do right and it's like for men respect is such an important thing you know it's like where we say like women need love men need if you have to choose men love doesn't mean shit really but respect does yeah and like hunting was a way to earn respect from the community and that's why for men like when i as hunters i think that's appealing for people who don't hunt because they see that image and they're like i'm missing that because they see that there's there's respect earned there and that's what men whether they want to admit it or not that's a big driving force like you even at work and whatever job you have you want to be respected here's a perfect example that story you were telling me about shooting that bull in the oregon backcountry and you it's terrible place to kill a bull and you call up that dude.

1:06:22Yeah. Cal Halliday. Which sounds like a fake name. We're talking about that. Like a gunslinger. Cal Halliday sounds like such a fake name. It's a perfect badass name. You call this dude and ask him to help you. Dude drove through. You told him okay, he said I'll see you there at 8 a.m. This guy drives through the night. He shows up. How many hours did it take him to get there? It was four guys. So he had to round up three other guys. So he brought about four of them, like him and three guys. And they live, God, how far away? I mean, at least a couple hours, I think. And so they had to get together, drive a couple hours, get up on this old, like, logging road, essentially, into the access point of the wilderness, to the trailhead, pack in miles, right?

1:07:11So this is like 9 or 10 at night. They said they'd be there at 8 in the morning. So that's what it took, like, to get there and then miles back to this remote middle of the wilderness hellhole area by 8 a.m. So, yeah, it was hours and hours and hours just to get there. And you can't time that. You can't time that, but he did. The way you talked about it. But the way you talked about him, that's what every man wants. Yeah. Like, that was a fucking man. Yes. But he earned it, too. And you're talking about respect's so important. But you do have to earn respect. Right, right. Right. And that when so in that moment, so there was me, Wayne, Tanner, my son, James, my camera guy, Gideon.

1:07:53And then he brought four guys. So we had eight guys in that moment. There's not eight other men I'd rather have or seven other men besides me that I'd rather have there, because those to do that. It's special. That's not not everybody can do that shit. But those guys, that was their purpose. They could probably never be, quote, happier than in that moment. Elk meat on our back, miles to get to the trailhead out. Hundreds of pounds of meat. Yeah, 300 pounds of meat. So we waited at the butcher when I took the, to get processed. 300 pounds of boned out meat. That's not a bone on there. Not including your camp, not including everything that's on your back, your bones.

1:08:37Right, and the head, I took the head out. So 300 pounds of meat plus everything else that we had. but eight of us packed it out and it was a great the greatest day I can remember probably this season you know I mean it was that that was that was real that's what I say that that's real yeah all this other shit I don't know what this is but that was fucking real I killed a bull we have to get it out to take care of this meat here's some badass mountain men who can help me does it get any better no yeah i think i've known you for 13 or 14 years now and you've always been like that i yeah you've never changed in that sense like those things are important to you those things are meaningful to you all right it's incredible no it's uh thank you but yeah it's it's yeah i mean that's all that fucking matters it's most people never experience that that's what's wrong what's wrong is most people never experience the that insane challenging experience where your Your character's tested.

1:09:37Your will is tested. Your commitment is tested. Just think. So the video on this hunt came out last night, and it's called The Bowhunter. But there's a moment there after we had called, after we'd got my bull processed. So at that time, it was just me, Wayne, Tanner, and James. And we're just sitting there. We had our tent set up. The meat's all hanging up. Middle of the night, sitting there talking, eating. we're eating peak meals. I'm like, why are we eating peak meals? That's your happy. Why didn't you eat the elk? We didn't have a fire. But the meat was processed. It wasn't time to eat or like to break down the bowl.

1:10:19But that would have been great. Tenderloins over fire would have been amazing. We just didn't do it. But the point is, in that moment, there's no other place on earth, no other time in my life that I would rather be. that is that was the pinnacle of life for me that's a normal natural experience for primitive man yes that's what it is and it's how we stayed alive and the way i describe it to people there's a feeling most people have caught a fish there's a feeling when someone catches a fish like even a child when i took my daughter bass fishing she was like six i think she caught a bunch of bass and the feeling that she got when she hooked it like oh her eyes light up it is built in us it's inside of us but catching a fish bow hunting and in the mountains killing an animal cooking it over a fire with your boys is that times a thousand yeah it's a crazy built in we did what we have to do and we're looking forward to doing it again so that that the intense experience the difficulty all of it you're sitting there relax you're eating and you have no doubt you can't wait to do that again you're not like man i don't want to do this again this is nuts you're like yeah i'm fucking tired but that was awesome yeah yeah that was awesome you take the pack off like whoa dude you're sitting there by the fire like holy shit you're drenched in sweat your legs are gone everybody's around smiling like we fucking did it we did it i just don't know how i mean you hope the films can show that and and but gives you a peek to feel it Oh, yeah, it's I would I wish everybody could feel it just so they'd know.

1:12:03Yeah It'll never happen, but it's it's so power. It's life-changing Do you remember Israel Adesanya speech after he knocked out Pereira? Yes. What'd he say? He goes I wish he goes people of the world I would play it. Let's play it because it's fucking amazing It's fucking amazing. So this is Alex Pereira. This is a guy that had beaten him three times three times Knocked him out in kickboxing, knocked him out in MMA, and then finally he knocked him out. And this was like everybody was terrified of him taking this rematch. Pereira can't be stopped. Pereira's a destroyer. He's the scariest guy ever.

1:12:37But he asked me to give him the microphone.

1:12:44Look at that.

1:12:54what a human yeah i love stylebender oh he's the best holy shit he's the best

1:13:06yes sir hey sure sure listen up i want to say something people earth i need to say something Listen to me. I hope every one of you behind your screens on this arena can feel this level of happiness just one time in your life. I hope all of you can feel how happy I am just one time in your life. But guess what? You never feel this level of happiness if you don't go for something in your own life. when they knock you down, when they try on you, when they talk about you and they try to put their foot on your neck. If you stay down, you will never, ever get that resolve. Fortify your mind and feel this level of happiness as you rise one time in your life.

1:13:54But I'm blessed to be able to feel this. This episode is brought to you by Life 360. I bet the first things you think of before leaving the house are where are my keys? Did I leave my wallet somewhere? Well, you can now keep tabs on them with Life360's tile trackers. They're small Bluetooth devices you can stick on anything that can go missing. They are great. Use Life360 with your keys, your phones, gear. It's a game changer. You never have to search your house from top to bottom to find your most important items when they were on the counter the whole time. You can just open up the app and know exactly where you put them.

1:14:35If you like hunting like me, you can put them in your gear or in your cars and track where they are using the location sharing app. Tile trackers also have safety features like anti-theft mode, an SOS button, and car crash detection with emergency dispatch for that extra peace of mind. And now Life360 just launched something really cool, a new weekly in-app giveaway called Life360 Pays For. Every single week, they're choosing winners and paying their bills, covering the costs for things like your rent or mortgage, tuition, your car, gas, or even holiday gifts for the fam. Get peace of mind in the palm of your hand with Life360's Tile Trackers.

1:15:17Use code JOE30 for 30 % off Tile Trackers on life360.com slash Joe30. This episode is brought to you by Traeger. The holidays are right around the corner, and whether you're hosting festive feats or gifting the ultimate backyard upgrade, there's no better time to join the Traeger hood than during Traeger's Holiday Savings Event. Right now, you can save up to$300 on select Traeger grills, including the all-new Woodridge and the top-of-the-line Timberline. These grills are loaded with innovative features and deliver that signature wood-fired flavor with set-it-and-forget-it convenience. Perfect for holiday roast, smoked barbecue classics, and game day cookouts.

1:16:08Thinking about trying the Flat Rock Griddle? It's on sale, too, so you can whip up holiday breakfast for the whole family and anyone else who's coming to town. Don't miss Traeger's biggest savings of the year. Head over to Traeger.com and use the code ROGAN25 for free shipping. And again, and again, and again, and again. That's so good. Greatest post-fight speech of all time. You know what I love, too, is even in that moment, there's a little bit of blood starting to trickle out of his nose. Because he looks really good for just fighting. But it's like there's little you know the sweat the blood trip trickling.

1:16:52Oh, man He's getting hit man. He's getting hit and his left leg was already destroyed Oh, he didn't take many though. No, he was talking to me about it afterwards He's like that motherfucker got me again I was thinking that before that he got my fucking leg again because that was a part of the problem with the first fight Yeah, first time I may fight His left leg was destroyed. He couldn't move his left leg So even though he's like Bob and he's like I was okay He goes, but I couldn't get out of there because I couldn't move my fucking leg man He goes, I was getting hit, but I was still there. I was moving, like he was still moving around, but he couldn't go away.

1:17:24Like his leg was destroyed. And that's what people don't think about when you, like, especially those goddamn calf kicks. Yeah. He probably knew after the first one. He was like, fuck, he got me again. Fuck. He destroys people's legs. And then you're a sitting duck in front of the scariest puncher in the history of the division. Hands of stone there. Oh my God. He's fucking terrifying. And for him to catch him with that perfect right hand off the cage like that. Oh, my. And then shoot the arrows into him. Greatest post-fight celebration. Greatest post-fight speech of all time. Of all time. There's not even a second place.

1:17:57That really, except Rose and I, I'm a Eunice. That one time when she was saying, I'm the best. Oh, yeah. That was pretty powerful. That was pretty powerful, too. Jamie, could you find that tent scene at the end of that video? But here's what I was curious about. Oh, he did find it. Yeah, like right here. So the difference between Israel's happiness and this happiness. I'll do anything you want to do. But, you know, you go until you're just sick of the weight and you get it under the tree of the shade and you get all kind of energized, come back, drink some water, grab another. And then mentally, you're not coming back to here.

1:18:36Right. I mean, you get it all across the creek in that. I mean, it doesn't get any more in the bottom. that was a pack out but i wouldn't want it any other way wayne he had a horse packer set up and then i i had also talked to cal halliday and when i was in there by myself on an opening weekend he said hey if you kill a bull in here by yourself he goes let me know send me a text or something i'll have you know four or five guys here within five hours to help pack so no it wasn't opening weekend but i'm like i told wayne that and i said he goes well who do you want to who do you want to get a hold of you want to get a hold of cow or do you want to get a hold of the horse packer and i'm like i think i'd rather have cow with some other badass you know mountain guys and just share this pack out with them yeah but it's only less of a jungle too so these guys right here bro that area you don't want any other people and tanner's got so much weight on this form how they got up i don't know what time three in the morning made it all the way there they said they'd be there at 8 a.m they were down at my bull at 8 oh one and i don't i mean this is miles and miles and miles just you know just studs yeah and so yeah it's like uh i'll never forget that i'll never forget the whole obviously the whole hunt but that morning was a special one cal eric uh keith and ryan just freaking massive yeah so thankful for them.

1:20:04That bull is massive. So it's like, here's it. But that's a juxtaposition is to me, that was my Israel Adesanya moment about I will never be happier. But look how look how different those moments are. One's in front of a huge crowd, millions of people watching, being, you know, getting all that attention from all those people. And then I'm I guarantee just as happy or happier right there. Isn't that crazy? It is crazy. Yeah, that's your thing and you've found your thing. I always talk about that, like people just trying to find their thing. Yeah, my thing's outdoors and bowing. So Israel's thing is fighting.

1:20:41So for him, that's the pinnacle. For us, whatever your thing is, get to the pinnacle, right? That's a lesson. Find happiness in that, whatever it is, whatever it is for you. that you talking about your daughter catching that fish and it's like this primal instinct inside of it that just flares up that fighters have that same feeling like it's a primal feeling oh 100 yeah it's a little more conflicted though depending upon how bad you hurt your opponent when you hurt them really bad it's very it's a very conflicting moment because you know that could have been you some guys don't get that feeling some guys they're like good fuck him But a lot of guys it's like woof there's some guys that knock a guy out real bad and then they almost want to retire afterwards They're just like I don't want to do that to anybody anymore, you know, especially guys that have killed guys Like Ray Mancini when he killed Duck Koo Kim I don't think he was ever the same again There's a few guys like that in history that have had boxing matches where they killed a guy And then they were kind of never the same after that.

1:21:44Yeah, that's some scary Yeah, cuz you realize like this is what is what you're doing. Yeah, you know how it is this could lead to that happening to you. And you think about your kids watching on TV and crying or even worse there while you're getting beat up. I always freak out when guys bring their kids. I'm like, oh, man. Bringing a kid to a fight, you know? Yeah. I've seen guys get knocked out in front of their kids, and it's particularly devastating, particularly devastating, especially when you really like the guy. It's rough. It's a rough way to make a living. But those guys, when they get that belt strapped around them, when their hands get raised and the whole audience screams and cheers, it's like, whew.

1:22:22That's a special moment. That's a special moment that very few people ever get to experience. Unless they kill a bull in the wilderness. I don't even know if it's the same. It's a different kind of happiness. I think yours is more sustained. Yours lasts longer. That's what I say. It's like, I don't know. Israel said he was happy. I guess that's what it is. But you know what the reality is? After the happiness dies off for a couple of days, Then you start thinking about your next fight and you immediately start getting that anxiety I think that's a good drive in life though, right? Because you don't just do that elk hunt and be like I'm done now Right, you know, it's like not what's the next one?

1:22:58Yeah, and it's like that constant pursuit And it's also like constantly recognizing that you're always going to be at least trying to get better You know that's you're always trying to get better Anything that is going to give you like real happiness is going to be very difficult because you're not really going to ever be able to master it whatever it is it's like that that's where it is the the real it's it's in the pursuit of it and along the way recognizing that you consistently keep getting better but it's like a there's a dream that you're chasing that you're never going to get to you're never going to get to bow hunting perfection it doesn't exist right you can get really close you've gotten really really close but we're human and it's the wild and there's all sorts of weird variables that happen there's branches and sticks and wind and this and that and it's impossible to be perfect yeah and that's part of the magic of it yeah part of the magic of it is that when you're in the moment and it's all happening it's all so open-ended like any result can take place you really do not know how this is all going to go down you haven't seen it all play out and you might you might imagine how it's going to play out but it's going to play out in unique situations some of them will be similar some of them will be completely different yeah and you've got to figure it out like you were telling me that crazy story that i was talking to you about the podcast where you're shooting down at this bull like from like a cliff yeah straight down yeah san carlos this year it was uh so i arranged the bull it was a huge cliff and what i thought is i'd get up there and i'd be able to see the flat and there was some bulls down there's a tough year in arizona's the drought but uh from that cliff i thought that'd be a great vantage point to see where these bulls were in plan of stock so get way up there actually there's sheep right above us too it's like crazy rugged country but get up there on that cliff and i'm look kind of looking out over the expanse there and then i look straight down below me there's this big bull and like straight down and i'm like it's like if you're hunting mule deer you know they always bed up against the cliffs because so their back's protected the wind's coming up they can monitor the down below them with their nose they know nothing's come from the back that's how mule deer bed to to survive well this bull had done that same thing and it was it had just stood up from the base of the cliff and i looked down i range it 42 yards which people who know if it's the range finder's telling you to shoot for 42 that means straight down that means it's probably close to 60 yards you know because the range the range finder um Does a calculation.

1:25:32If you shoot flat, that's the gravity affects one thing. If you shoot straight down, gravity has less effect. So it's saying even though it's further, you would shoot for less distance is how that works. So it told me to shoot for 42. That means it's probably 60 straight down. And that's a long shot with a bow. And then I had to shoot it straight down. I had to, I thought that I was like going to go straight through his spine because I was straight above him. I'm like well I'm gonna come right behind the shoulders straight through his spine into his vitals I thought that should do it so I shoot I hit that bull like about I would say an inch off the spine I show it there's a video of it on that the video we just watched for people who are interested but about an inch off that spine into his chest and the bull went about 100 yards but yeah it was uh I've never I've never done a shot like that before in my life you know you think about different scenarios i had never even thought about one like that on a bull elk at that distance at that angle so that is even so where yeah it's it's back this is the that's the winoha bull but it's back jamie about i was talking about getting ready for this hunt and it shows like a few clips of uh the bull i killed in colorado then the arizona bull then i did another hunt in utah and i killed a bull there to get prepared for for the the oregon hunt but uh yeah it was just i'd never even really thought that that shot would be a potential one the oregon hunt is crazy because of the wilderness is so dense yes oregon is not forest hunt it's a it's like a rainforest it's like jurassic park and that's in eastern oregon that's the dry part of the state that's crazy but it's such such a hole there so much moisture down there that it turned into like jurassic park with that bull coming in bugling it was like a dinosaur it looks sick but there's nothing that matches that that aspect of elk hunting makes it so much cooler yeah it's the sound they make when they're coming in because it's just like that's all of your your fucking pores pop up yeah it's like you get goosebumps all over your body your back your neck the hair stands up it's like the scream is like whoa right it's so it is my favorite sound it's amazing oh they're incredible when you hear when you're close and there's an elk screaming through the woods and he's coming close towards you that the thrill of that is like nothing else like nothing else no and people who haven't heard it they hear that and they're like what the fuck is that right it's weird that there's an animal on this planet that makes that noise if if we hadn't done this our whole lives and we heard that would be like what is going on yeah if you had done what adam did in japan and not Research like what what kind of animals are in the area and you were camping out and you heard that scream You'd be like oh my god.

1:28:23We're surrounded by demons now I've had people tell me stories like there's something really weird in the woods there And then but you find out it's like fellow deer or red deer Living in there and it's like just a brain and they're just roaring and just people like what the fuck is that? Oh, it's like actually it's just a deer stag have the craziest roar. It's such a weird actually They actually make a real pussy sound. Compared to the roar. Yeah, for their size. Yeah. Well, like an African lion, because I heard those when I was hunting over there, like they're by the river. And so we're like an African lion in the middle of the night there.

1:28:59Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, oh, my God. It just like reverberates through the whatever we were jumbled. If there's anything that lights up your DNA, the sound of a lion must just chill your fucking cells. Nothing like that either. Nothing like that either. But, you know, here's an exciting thing. So for people listening that maybe didn't grow up hunting, we were talking about this in the green room last night when we were getting high off all the smoke. We weren't smoking, but we got high. What's crazy is nowadays, you know, we're 58. you're 45 right but we're just getting even better physically so so you say you can't master bow hunting right because you only had a certain window like normally how hunting works is you're young and strong all the endurance in the world but you don't know shit right you don't have the experience so by the time you get the experience and you're old and broke down you can't take advantage of the experience so you have to have a wisdom the wisdom you gained when you're young, you utilize when you're old to kill.

1:30:03Well, now we can gain all that experience and wisdom. Like I've been, I've been, you know, hunting for 40 some years and I'm also at the best I've ever been physically. You marry those two up, look out. That's what's nuts is that didn't exist before. Right. So like we go to ways to well today and get stem cell and get, you know, the IV treatments and get everything else to be able to operate at our absolute prime at 58 years old with 40 years of experience yeah that's that's tough that's you're going to have success if you do it right so yeah not everybody's going to be in that situation where they grew up hunting like me but you even think about jelly roll at 41 years old so he just started bow hunting you started bow hunting in your 40s and now now you've been doing it for you know 15 years and you're getting better so there's there's hope for even people 40 50 or whatever with this new science and treatment and supplements and things like that you can still be very active and still take on new intense endeavors like bow hunting or hunting just hunting in general and have success and it might change your entire life like jelly roll is a different fucking person yeah yeah in two years he's a different person a different human a totally that should be exciting for people listening yeah They should learn that you could do it too.

1:31:22And having more energy, like say if you're not into bow hunting, like I don't want to be a marathon runner, whatever it is, if your body is healthier, whatever the thing you do, you'll have more energy. You're going to be better at it. You're going to be better at it. Why do people cognitively decline when they get older? Well, a big part of it is you're declining overall. Everything's declining. Everything about you is declining. Of course, your brain is declining as well. Like your entire existence is fading. But the more you can have energy, the more you have vitality, the more you can do what?

1:32:02I don't care if you play chess, whatever the fuck it is that you like to do, paint, whatever it is you like to do. The more energy you have, the more energy you'll be able to apply to that thing you do. The more enjoyable it is, the better quality of life, the happier you are. Including all the other stuff, you know, just being with your family. You'll have more energy to do stuff. You'll be more, you'll have more life. You'll have more life energy. Here's one mindset I've tried to take on with, especially with hunting, because that's all I really fucking care about, is improving and learning on every time.

1:32:39And I could even think about, like, I was telling somebody, I don't know who, but on every, I try to learn something on every stock. And when I think about when you killed the sable the other day, so we're there and you have to weigh out so many things on a stock when you're getting ready to kill an animal or potentially kill an animal. But we're thinking about, okay, we have the wind. The wind is, that's the biggest thing with ball hunting. So I knew where the wind was. But then also it's like, well, do we go stay in the shade so the sun wouldn't blind you as it was going down? But if we stay in the shade, we're not perfectly downwind.

1:33:16So I'm like, well, the sun's going to set. The winds change because thermals change. If we're to the side in the shade so you don't have to deal with the sun, then when that wind becomes unstable, it's more likely to smell us. So we should be all the way downwind, but that means we're going to have to shoot before the sun gets too low to where it's not blinding you. To get to the side, then you have to figure out what's the path to get there to where we're not making noise for the animal to hear. Well, it's straight to the, I don't remember that tree. And I said, head straight to that tree. And from that tree, then I was thinking you should have a lane because there was brush all around, but it looked to me like from that tree, you would have a lane to shoot at 28 yards, but you're still factoring all these, the wind, the sun, the everything else, what's the animal going to do.

1:34:05It's just so fascinating to think about, but I know some people hunt and I don't think they think about it in those details. You know what I mean? They're just kind of like, oh, there's an animal. What do I do? But like, that's, that's not how, that's not how you master the moment. You master the moment by, and I said this a lot of times too, on many of these hunts, I was telling Jelly Roll this. I was like, everything matters. Everything. The little thing matters. The big things obviously matter, but everything matters. And that's what hunting teaches us. And in life, you can make it through regular life on this fake world that I keep talking about by ignoring a lot of things, not on a hunt.

1:34:51Yeah, we had to think about a lot of things on that stalk. On a hunt, everything matters. And one of the big ones that we had to think about was as that sun was dropping. So we were standing there waiting for this sable to get up. It had bedded. And it didn't know we were there. And we creeped into the spot. We were slowly. So do you remember that tactic? Yeah. Remember what I said? Yeah. If you move slow enough, they won't pick it up. Right, because they look for movement. So we were moving like an inch every 30 seconds. We were barely moving. Because what I've found is animals, I've been in the wide open on a caribou, went right at it.

1:35:28But so slow, it was just like, that can't be anything. Nothing does that. No sideways movement. This episode is brought to you by Tommy John. I really love their underwear. They're very comfortable. And if you prefer classic colors or holiday prints, they have all kinds of different styles. And comfort never gets out of style with Tommy John. They have up to four times more stretch than competing brands. They're very breathable, these fabrics they use to keep you cool and dry. No more chafing, adjusting, or jingling. Just softness and support right where you need it. At Tommy John, I can grab gifts for myself and others all in one place because it's not just men's underwear.

1:36:06They have women's products too, including pajama sets, hoodies, joggers, and more. And don't forget, your first purchase is backed by Tommy John's risk-free guarantee. So in the rare instance that you don't love it, you get your money back. Look, with 30 million pairs sold, there are thousands of other guys wearing Tommy John right now that are way more comfortable than you are. Don't settle for less. I wear Tommy John. They're great as gifts, and you're going to love it. Give the gift that lasts with Tommy John and get 25 % off your first order right now at TommyJohn.com slash Rogan with promo code Rogan.

1:36:43Your ambition just met its match with Robin Hood. You play for the win, not just on game day, every day. Channel that drive into your money. Trade stocks and ETFs, options and futures all on one platform. You expect more from yourself. Expect more from your money. Get started today at Robinhood.com slash your money. Your money, your move. But steady and slow, and they just won't spook. Yeah, and we had to figure out where to stand. And then when we got where we were, as we were standing there, we were standing there for quite a while. I realized, oh, this sun is going to be impossible because it's slowly lowering in the sky.

1:37:25And it's literally above this sable's head now. And I'm like, okay, we don't get this thing to stand up. I'm not going to be able to see it because I had my hat on, right? So I blocked myself from the hat. And then I was trying to train my eyes to just look at it through, you know, just like the haze of the sun. I was like, this is going to be a real problem. So we decided let's get him to stand up. So Cam took his arrow out of his quiver and started tapping on this branch and then started like moving towards it. And Sable are beasts, bro. First of all, those motherfuckers, they kill lions occasionally.

1:37:57Like they get attacked and they're they're fierce like they're not so it wasn't exactly easy to spook Right, so you had to kind of like move towards a little bit and then it started grunting at you like fuck off Fuck off bitch and then finally it stood up and when it stood up we got him Yeah, but it was you know It was a shot where I was like I got to do this real soon because otherwise I'm not gonna be able to see yeah Fortunately I could and I can get the pin right where it needed to be But it was like I was and I was telling you afterwards I was like I avoid shooting into the sun. When I have my targets, I always put a target in the other way.

1:38:32And I'm like, I can't do that anymore. Now I have to start shooting into the sun sometimes. Practice it all. You got to get that feeling because that had happened also on a hunt with Tom Land. We were up in Utah. And this bull was a nice bull. It was about 60 yards and it was coming across this ridge. The sun was right in my eyes. And he's like, why didn't you shoot? I was like, I just couldn't. It was too blurry. It was too the Sun was right fucking there and I remember thinking that at that time This was years ago thinking at that time. I need to shoot into the Sun And I did yeah I just won't take the shot.

1:39:08I'll do what I did that I won't take the shot and if you're not comfortable You don't have to take the shot. Yeah in this situation. I was like I know looks it's not a long shot it's only 28 yards and It's a big animal and I'm I'm pretty confident. I got this I was like, I got to factor all these things in and then not let doubt creep into my head. You know, stay totally calm. So there's all these things going on simultaneously. It's a lot. It's a lot to manage. It's a lot. But also a lot of factors to consider and then learn from. Yeah. Oh, I learned a lot from that hunt. I learned a lot. First of all, I learned how fucking tough sable are.

1:39:44That was the same experience like I told you I had with Neil Guy that I shot that Neil Guy in South Texas and it ran like I didn't even hit it. I hit it perfect. The arrow went right through him. It was the arrow. We found the arrow 30 yards past where I hit. It was covered in blood. So we knew he was dead. But he ran like he never even got hit. He ran full speed like a cheetah. It was crazy. And the guide I was with was like, yeah, man, they grew up around tigers. Like these things evolved around tigers. Like they don't just take getting hit and go, oh, no, I'm in trouble. They fucking run. They're so tough.

1:40:18And they barely bleed. That's the other thing about these animals that grow up around big predators. Boy, they clog up their holes really quick. They don't leave much of a blood trail. It's not like an elk or a deer. It's different. Yeah. I think Adam explains this well. Sometimes you talk about when you hit them, if they're stretched out, then when they're not stretched out, it just changes the entrance wound and the exit wound if there is one. It just changes. There's different layers of muscle and hide over it where it just blocks up that blood. It seems like they clog up quicker, too, just period.

1:40:55Like whatever their anatomy is, the difference is when you hit them, they just don't bleed much. Yeah, I've got a buddy that always, you know, someone's like, it was the perfect shot. And it's like, well, actually, it wasn't because it'd be dead already. So it's like, and I know what you're saying, but the truth is double lungs is double lungs. and there's so many variations like that reaction they close up the gap or what broader do you use and if the animal's breathing out when the arrow shoots through the lungs or whether it's just taking a bunch of oxygen in you know there's a larger target yeah and there's all those different plus just more energy to run on right and then you know you'll see certain hunters that shoot something it's not even dead yet and they're like yeah and start yahoo and it's like what shut the fuck up because that brings on an adrenaline rush.

1:41:41Animals can run for, whereas you just want a nice, relaxed setup, you know, and it's just a hit. They don't know what's going on. The beauty of the bow, because it's so quiet. There's not a loud gunshot behind it or anything. And then, you know, just so they're relaxed. They don't want to run as fast. They want to give up earlier because they've got nothing to spook from or fight from. So, you know. And they don't know what happened. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes they think they got jabbed by another bull or something. Like what happened? Yeah. Because everything's crazy. They're all rutting and screaming at each other and clashing antlers.

1:42:10Then all of a sudden, whack! Like, what the fuck is that? Right. Utah this year, the bull that I shot, he'd just been in the fight with another bull. So he was all revved up from that other bull. So I literally hit him and he thought he got poked by an antler from another bull. He went 20 yards, was standing for 14 seconds, dropped dead. Nice, beautiful, peaceful right in front of me. They don't all happen like that, but that's what we're after. That's what you're after. That's why you practice. That's why you shoot so many arrows. To have it drop right in front of you is the greatest thing ever.

1:42:40And I think that does impact the taste of the meat, too, if you don't have them shoot that adrenaline back through their body where it's a peaceful death. I think it does impact the taste. That's what they say. Yeah. Yeah. It makes sense. I mean, don't they do that when they want to call animals or if they want to shoot animals rather than not shoot them for commercial purposes? They shoot them in the head, right? Yeah. They put a bolt in their head. But yeah, I mean, no, I mean, like, like in Lanai, when they shoot like axis deer, they shoot them in the head. Definitely. No, but like even like when they kill cattle, they're not getting those things.

1:43:16Right. Of course. Of course. You want them to be as calm as possible. Yeah. The opposite of what that mountain lion did to that cow. Imagine eating that. Yeah. Imagine you ate that cow. That guy would be like, I got anxiety. It's probably in the meat itself. I got issues. She's taking it back to the health journey, how you were saying, like, you know, where we are now with, you know, modern treatments and wellness is, is incredible. Like, I feel like my, I feel like my body's the best it's ever been, you know, and I'm obviously the oldest I've ever been, which is crazy to think of. Like, how can, how can I feel better than I do?

1:43:52How can I feel better now than I did in my early twenties? You know, we've probably had any injuries and stuff like that. And I've got you to thank for that by introducing me to Brigham and Ways to Wells. Oh, my pleasure. I want more people to know about it. I want everybody to be healthy. It's possible. You can get healthier. Like, look at Jelly Roll. The guy was 500 plus pounds, and now he's running. That's such an incredible story. He ran a 10K the day before he came to the studio. And then when we went to the gym together, and he ran 2.6 miles on the treadmill while he was talking. We're laughing.

1:44:26He's joking around. They don't know me, son. He's having a good old time. And, you know, he just seems so happy. We got in the sauna together. We're laughing. It's like he's just a different guy. He's got so much. And he's so excited about this journey that he's on, this journey of self-improvement, this journey of health. You know, he's going to be there for his kids. He's going to be there for his wife now. He's worried about dying before. You know, he told a story about, like, laying on his arm, and he couldn't get up. He was trapped. And he didn't have him. In bed. In bed. He couldn't get up.

1:44:58He couldn't, couldn't, and he thought he was going to die. He's like, I'm so big that I'm laid on my arm and I don't have that strength to get out of this position because I'm so big. What a change. And now he's running and bow hunting. Yeah. He's substance now. Like that's like that substance will just keep him going, you know, to find those things and what makes him happy. It's incredible. You know, the problem is a lot of people oftentimes compare themselves to other people that are already on that path. This is another thing that we talked about. you just get on the path don't worry about how people are ahead of you just you be ahead of yourself next week you're ahead of where you were this week the week after that you'll be ahead of you it's just a path yeah just get so so what if other people have been on the path further than you like that's how you get better at stuff and that that is what's exciting about life is this path of improvement and whatever you do and and actually being a human being be a better human You can do that.

1:45:53Everybody can get on that path. Yeah. Yeah. It's just that's what I told Jelly is that, you know, you can wander around off the path for your whole life and never really have like fucking never, never really figured it out. But once you make it like like where he's on, you know, being healthy, eating better, exercising, you know, the mountains have given him. I always say the mountains heal or nature heals. so he's there now it's like yeah of course there's people who are way ahead because they've been on it longer there's people not quite on it maybe they're going to be faster than him and they pass him but all on the right path head in the right direction that's a beautiful place to be and that's where he's at it is and one of the things that i said to jelly when we're on the podcast i was like what you're doing is inspiring millions of people to live a better life 100 what you're doing is so beneficial to human beings all over the world because now millions of people have seen that podcast.

1:46:52Millions of people have heard that story. Millions of people have seen those clips that have been shared all throughout social media and how many people got excited by that and it gave them fuel and energy to want to go do something. It gave them that inspiration that we all desperately crave to want to go out and take those first fucking steps. And then once you do that, then you're operating on momentum and it's so much easier. This is another thing that people have to understand. The first steps are the hardest. It's so hard to move. It's so hard to get going. But once you get going, then you operate on momentum.

1:47:28Once you have a good day, then you go, I did it. I had a good day. Let's do it again tomorrow. And then you get excited about it and you look forward to waking up and then you get through it that day. Like we fucking did it again and now I'm looking forward to now I'm eating healthier now I cut off the sugar now I'm drinking water with electrolytes and now I'm feeling better I have more energy and just keep going yeah just keep going and momentum is so much easier than that first step the first step of changing your life is so hard because we're just so afraid of pain we're so afraid of suffering we're so afraid of like just the discomfort we've been programmed to think that discomfort is a bad thing it's not yeah it's not it's necessary I think that Jilly roll my I mean I think we've talked about this but could he impact more people than anyone ever has in that regard 100 % we were talking about it today 100 % because it's like it's not like you know even Israel or your favorite NFL guy or NBA they're they're elite right so when they succeed you're like fuck of course you know he's 6 '8", 260.

1:48:36Of course, he's going to be great. But when you see somebody like Jolly Roll who came from 540 pounds, that's like he's already at the furthest end of like, you know, like what you'd have to overcome. Yes. And for him to do that, anybody else is closer to the goal than he was at that time. So it's like nobody's in worse shape, really. Right. You know, you're literally morbidly obese. You can't be in worse shape. Right. And if he's doing it, everyone can do it. Everyone who has that something inside them, and maybe he's going to give them that something. 100%. And he's way more famous than anybody who's ever done this before.

1:49:20Right. That's the most important aspect of it. He's loved by so many people. So how many Jelly Roll fans loved him because he was like them? He was big like them. Super talented, amazing guy who was also big. Like, oh, my God, I thought I was a big slob and no one's going to love me. Meanwhile, everybody loves Jelly Roll. So they love Jelly Roll. And then also Jelly Roll has changed his life. Like, how many people are sitting there watching him and listening to him going, I think I could do it. He did it. I think I can do it. Yeah. And you just do it the way he did. You know, like he didn't start out running marathons.

1:49:53He tried to go for a walk. Yeah. You know, I mean. He would call his walk his run because he couldn't run. Right. But he'd say, tell his family, his wife, that he's going to go out on his run. there's not one step of running but the the mindset the uh um story he told himself was he was running so it's that self-talk you know how we talk to ourselves is important so he would tell himself i'm gonna go run even though there's no not a step of running involved but that led to running that mindset that that approach of like i'm winning today i'm winning it's not a run it's a walk, but it's going to be a run.

1:50:30That's going to be a massive mental achievement for him too, because I'm sure that he had a lot of mind weight to lose as well because he was in jail, right? Substance abuse, no doubt. Probably a lot of, like, that's a lot of negative stuff in someone's head. So to lose that as well, and you told me that he's such a positive person. So to like, you know, he lost a bunch of weight, which is incredible, but what he's done to his mind, which we may never know is really incredible too like like that's why i was saying to you this morning this might be one of the best modern day stories of a person changing their life when you look at jelly yeah yeah yeah and and couldn't be a better representative of someone who has gone through the struggle and then come out this amazing person like he's an amazing guy like there's There's very few humans that are so kind and friendly and warm.

1:51:28And when he hugs you, he hugs you with his soul. Like he hugs you with his whole body and his soul. He's like a perfect person to be the inspiration for people to improve their life. Well, and that was so touching. Like when you shared the Grand Ole Opry inclusion for Jelly Roll from Craig Morgan. And he said, Joe, can I get a hug? I mean two men and to me that was like so endearing but also so important to show that it's okay for men to say yeah can I get a hug I mean it was a man crying it was one of the most inspirational things you could ever watch I mean but it takes a certain type or it's one of one who does stuff like that like him, his heart that's what I say he's a big man but he's got the biggest heart of anybody I've ever met.

1:52:24And that was an example of it. Like he just wanted love. Yeah. He's a very important figure in our culture. He really is. He really is. You know, especially now. I mean, he always was. His music just alone is important because it's beautiful music. But the beautiful music is the expression of a beautiful soul. You know, and now he's also on this path of self-improvement. And it's amazing. Yeah, that title of his album, Beautifully Broken. I mean, it's just so perfect. Yeah, it is. And he was broken. Probably will always be broken in some ways. We all are. But he's putting himself back together.

1:53:03And man, he's... Are we all broken? Or do we all have negative thoughts from the past? Are we telling ourselves we're broken? Yeah. Maybe that's our self-talk. Obviously, we're functional. So we're not broken. You know, it's not that we're broken. Maybe it's the doubt, the self-doubt. Well, everyone's gonna... you're it's like you're a human being the only way you figure out how to get good at something is you have to it has to be a puzzle puzzles include doubt yeah it's always going to be there there's no getting around it it's not it's but it's part it ends up being the beauty of it right yes that's it that's the beauty of it and and then whatever you do doesn't you don't have to bow on it's like you probably should but you don't have to yeah it could be anything else but yeah just any struggle in life you know that's how i look at anything like that that's testing or trialing or and it should be it should be interesting for you too it should be an interesting thing that's the people also have this weird habit of looking at the mind in terms of only being valuable in human created endeavors like the mind only being valuable in mathematics The mind only being valuable in your ability to recite literature and your knowledge that you've gained through schooling.

1:54:19Like, no, no. The mind manages stressful situations, too. That's an important aspect of intelligence is your intelligence in being able to navigate difficult things. That is all your mind. You're using your mind. Like bow hunting has so much, so many elements of intelligence that are woven into it. And the difference between a successful person who bow hunts and an unsuccessful person is experience and practice, but also the mind being able to learn from each individual situation and experience and get better and accumulate all this knowledge over time. You know, it's got a deep deep learning curve.

1:55:07It's very deep and The people that don't experience it and then have this classification in their head of what intelligence is intelligence means you got a PhD I know a lot of people with PhD that are fools. They're fools. They're emotional children They're they're they're they're filled with ego and resentment and they're shitty and nasty to people. They're fools So they're not smart. They're just they have a functional mind they've applied to human endeavors only right and they've never never done the big thing never done the whole package never put it all together yeah and i think i think another key to being um intelligent I don't know if it's the key but having kids I think is a big part of growth and to me it's like I lump like intelligence just just life experience into the the package we'd call intelligence but like hunting teaches us that of course but also raising kids and and being responsible for a family oh yeah i think that's another it's like yeah school doesn't teach you that shit and like the the the degree you got doesn't doesn't signify that but i don't know i think that's a big part of it too.

1:56:22It's a giant learning experience. That's for damn sure. And it also teaches you way more compassion. It just teaches you way more loving and kind. And you also just, you understand from watching a baby become an amazing adult human being, you get to understand all the elements that are involved in this child's development and all the trials and tribulations and how you got to a lot like let them fall sometimes yeah and then help them pick themselves back up and talk to them through it and when they're down explain like i've been down too i'm always done i've fucked up everything i was whenever my kids would do anything wrong one of the things i'd always say to them if i was upset at them i said listen i did everything that you did i've done all this stuff it's okay but you can't do it and this is why yeah like i've i've screwed up everything i've done things i shouldn't have done i'm doing exactly what you're doing right now i've done it even worse.

1:57:16You're a better kid than I was. Yeah. I always say that. So they don't think that like I'm without fault. I always say I've done it all, but I got through it on the other side. Now I'm your dad. And the reason why I'm telling you this is because I love you. And I'm not telling, I'm not, I'm not trying to like be upset at you because I'm mean, like I'm trying to help you live a better life. And that's how I try to communicate with them about it. So in, in my head, that perspective opens up other lanes of intelligence. That's, that's what i'm saying it's like you have you can't be the your highest form without that right you're challenged you're challenged and you're also challenged by the discipline of it and you you know you you have people that rely on you and that is uh you can't fuck that off you can't just like not show up for work you can't just you know i just feel like sleeping in today and fucking i'm taking a month off like you can't do that you have people that rely on you and also you're setting an example for them that they're going to learn from.

1:58:14The people that, and your kids are a great example of that, the children of people that are very disciplined almost always have a higher threshold of discipline. I notice it. I see it in your kids for sure. I see it in my kids. They have more of an understanding of what's necessary in order to get things done and to be successful. Now, if you're a person who's a parent and you shirk every responsibility, you lie, you steal, you do things, you take shortcuts, you're not truthful, whatever you're doing where your kids get to see like, oh, my parent is kind of a fuckhead. You know, my parent is kind of – one of two things happens.

1:58:57Either you emulate your parents and you be kind of a fuckhead or you go, I don't like that and I'm never going to be like that. Like some of my friends that grew up with alcoholic parents, they've never had a drink in their fucking life and they never will They're like I am never touching that shit. I see what that's like because I saw my dad Lose his fucking job lose his house lose this lose that get arrested for DWI get in a bar fight My dad's a fucking loser and I'm not gonna be that guy. So but it's it's a toss-up or some might Emulate that so my emulate yeah. Yeah, I mean some you see your dad's a drug addict like let me try it I grew up like that with a couple of closer friends and these closer friends were like I'm never going to be like my dad like we'll we'll to the core we'll like that we're never going to be like our fathers and and that's one of the reasons I don't drink because my father was a horrible alcoholic and even though when I drink I'm happy I I'm just turned off it so I don't want to do it and I guess I've gone long enough now that doesn't interest me and then I had another friend that I cut off because he turned out to be exactly like his dad and even though he the whole time he was like me I'm never gonna be like my father I'm gonna be the opposite for some reason some people just go down the same path I think it's also the stress of life it's sometimes it's overwhelming you know this this thing that we look forward to and bow hunting this like not knowing what's gonna happen like you you get out there it's early in the morning you put your pack on you know what's gonna happen today who knows some people hate that feeling right they hate that feeling of not knowing what's going to happen and the uncertainty about your career and job is a weird uncertainty it says it depends on so many factors that are sometimes out of your control and people just they get overwhelmed and they just want to escape they just want to escape and maybe they're doing a job they don't enjoy doing and then the only time they feel good is when they're drunk so they just get get off work and they can't wait to meet their boys and have a laugh and next thing you know you're drinking and one day turns into a month and that's your it's just that's distraction they want to be distracted off their yeah life or whatever in this world will give you a lot of distractions you could play video games and fucking get hammered and do heroin hub yeah whatever it is fill in the blank man you could find a lot of stuff that's not going to be beneficial for you yeah it's uh one thing that um i i think the well drinking and whatever but i think the biggest negative thing a parent can offer their kids is blaming other like all it's always somebody else's fault right so it's like this discussion at the house you know because kids hear everything right so when the dad's coming home and he's bitching about his boss or the guy at work or he's getting fucked over for this or i could do that too but that guy kissed ass that's why he got that or the must be nice whatever like these excuse makers oh you're just fucking sabotaging your kids it's just that you never get anywhere by blaming other people for where you're at and so many people do that because they won't accept personal responsibility for their actions or for their place in life and i don't even think it necessarily it's their fault i think they've a lot of them have never seen the example of of an extraordinary person who doesn't do that they're not there's it's rare to find a person, unfortunately, in this world, especially in society, it's rare to find a person of great character, a person who's just got impeccable character and is always truthful and is work works really hard and is loved by a lot of people.

2:02:28It's rare. It's rare. And so they've never experienced it. They never been around it. Yeah. And so they don't even know what it is. Right. They don't know that they're sabotaging. Yeah. And sometimes that's one of the real places where a guy like Jelly Roll can can change people's lives is because he does talk about all of the negative shit that he's experienced and all the negative influences and all the bad people that he was around and how he was living that life he was trapped in that way yeah and now he's not anymore and and and he's so the big things substance uh criminal lie overweight all those those are usually the big things and he overcame all of them all of them so it's like that's where that power comes from where to influence so many people it's because so what was your issue again yeah well jelly rolled yeah he overcame that oh wait was there something else oh that too i mean yeah it's everything all the big things he's overcome yeah so what what else is there what else are you gonna blame you just gotta find a thing find a thing get on a path yeah just get moving on the path bitch i'm going to get to the bathroom him sorry let's all right what see i told you it's got that australian bladder it's upside down no it's the iv i told him i said i said hey put all that shit in like this much whatever fluid because i don't want to have to take a piss i wonder if it works as good that way they made it super concentrated did they really yeah they did that's hilarious why don't you just like wait and pee i don't mind peeing but every time i've done that when i come here after an iv i do the same thing after pee.

2:04:05Yeah, I know. Or after the sauna, because after the sauna, I always drink this giant 64 ounce thing of water and electrolytes. And then like an hour and a half in the podcast, I'm like, Oh no, that hits Joey roll. He learned that lesson in the blind. Cause we were sitting for hours. And like, if you haven't ever been in a position where, you know, you, you can't just get out and go pee or whatever, then you're like, Ooh, I didn't know what this is holding. You know, But he said he was going to piss his pants. He's like, had to make a hole in the blind and pee into it covered up. Because I was like, okay, just make a hole covered up with dirt, whatever.

2:04:44And that's what he did. But yeah, it was pretty. When you got to piss, it can be miserable. Well, there's a mental challenge of sitting still for long periods of time. Like, I've only tree stand hunted once. I did it at Dudley's place in Iowa. Yeah. And the thing about Iowa is, first of all, it's in November that you're hunting. and it's so fucking cold. It's so cold. And you have to sit still. Right. You can't fucking move a muscle. And you're out there for hours and hours and hours just hoping a deer gets it within bow range. And the only reason why they do is they just happen to be wandering.

2:05:19Right. And it's total luck. It's complete luck. I mean, that's why those guys, like a lot of those real psycho Lee Lukoski guys, they're out there for months at a time. they'll hunt a single buck for like 38 days or however long the season is and they're in that damn blind every day or they're in that tree stand every day freezing their dick off just huddling up with mittens and shit and sometimes if you have a powerful bull like you pull back when it's zero degrees outside and you go to pull that thing back you're like

2:05:53you might not get it back oh no and that's a helpless feeling oh no nowadays so back in the day back when i used to you know i still tree stand hunt you know for black tail sometimes but phones have changed like how long you can stay because you can just fuck around on your phone now oh that's true and then also there's heated vests heated socks yeah so you can have like it's still just standing in a tree or sitting in a tree for 14 hours terrible still terrible terrible even with all that's a little easier but pretty terrible well thankfully gears a lot better too like layering systems and you could stay like you could stay alive let me put it that way you're not going to be comfortable but you could stay alive out there oh yeah degrees sitting still dude i didn't so i you know signed on with sitka now but i hadn't I had other things.

2:06:51I was, you know, under armor, different whatever. And I guess I had never had good gear my entire life because I didn't fucking know I didn't have to be miserable in a tree stand. And so Sid Kissimmee, I don't know what it is. It's like some sideways zip jacket or, yeah, it's a jacket. I can't remember what it's called, but it's polar fleece. And I was like up there going, I fucking feel good. I'm not freezing. And I had never, like I said, I bow hunted my whole life. I guess I always just had shit that wasn't the best and just thought, ah, it's part of the deal. Not just that. It doesn't restrict any of your movement.

2:07:31No. I used to have to wear fucking seven hoodies, right? Trying to pull a bow with seven hoodies on, but that's how I had to stay warm. So with the Sitka stuff with John Barclos and he's kind of into design and he's a bow hunter himself. but I can have the shit on and it's not restrictive. I can pull my bow and you know, it's not, this isn't like a fucking ad for Sitka. There's, if there's other stuff out there that does that too, great. I just don't know about it because I'd never had it, but man, that, that shit works good. There's a bunch of high level gear that's out there, but it's like whatever they've done with Sitka, they've made it so that everything works perfectly.

2:08:08They've dialed it in perfectly. The pants, they have the built in knee pads, which is fucking huge. I love those pants. So when you're crawling on, like, they're the perfect knee pads. They're super lightweight, but you could sneak around on stuff on your knees and not be in fucking agony. Right. And it doesn't restrict your movement at all. The level of detail they have now on these clothes is nuts. And it's more fitted, you know. I remember, like, stuff that we used to use. We used to complain about it together. But it's like, who are they making these pants for when the legs are that wide at the bottom still?

2:08:40So you're walking along hunting, and it's just like, shh, shh. Bell bottoms. And they get wet. They're fucking flopping around and shit. It makes me so pissed. I would take pictures and send a kid when he was at Under Armour or like at the pocket or something. I'm like, what the fuck is going on? But, yeah, this stuff fits good. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's just, I mean, that's one of the reasons to give them props so that they stay open, stay alive. Because it's like that kind of gear is so fucking important. Yeah. You know, to have gear that doesn't restrict your movement, totally keeps you comfortable and warm.

2:09:14makes you like so you can move around very quietly the the whatever fabrics they're using they got it dialed in yeah yeah when you're walking if your fabric rubs together you don't hear a fucking thing yeah and again time's precious and when we're doing stuff in this time we want to enjoy it so we're in gear that makes us enjoy it's great but it's just the the market for this this is like one of the things that really is i think important like the market for these things that are so impactful and important to us. It's not a whole, did I just touch the microphone that I fucked up? It sounded weird on my end.

2:09:52Um, that it's not a big market. There's not a lot of us out there, you know? So it's like, God, I'm so thankful that someone put so much research and development into these products, whether it's Hoyt bows or whatever you're using that you like, you got to think like how many people had to work tirelessly to figure out how to make this thing that is so critical to your success. You know, fill in the blank, binos, like whatever it is, whatever you're using. Who fucking figured out how to make binoculars? How about the SIG ones that have image stabilizing now? Who figured that out? What wizard, what wizard scientist?

2:10:30I got a pair of those 16 power SIGs, the Zulus. You hit that switch and turn on the image stabilization. And normally, if you're holding, for people who don't know, If you're holding 16 power binos in your hand, your image that you're getting on the other end is all wiggly. So zoomed in. It's 16 times larger than what you actually see. So every micro movement is a giant jiggle in your eyesight, in your eye picture. But with those things, it's like you're watching a movie. It's like fully locked in like it's on a tripod. It's crazy. Yeah. I was looking for a friend and I was like, look, the glass isn't as good in them.

2:11:09And I'm saying that to him. Because I'm looking through mine, mine are crystal clear. And maybe the glass isn't as good in them, but because the image is dead still, so I'm doing this, I'm putting mine up, and I'm like, yeah, these are really clear. And then I put that up, and I'm like, they're not as clear. No, you have to turn the button on, and then I press the button on, and it's like, oh, fuck, they're better. Because the image is still, so you're really getting to look at. It's going to be, it's the future. Swarovski's now doing it with spotting scopes. So they have a handheld spotting scope that completely stabilizes the image.

2:11:43And it's just no tripod now. No tripod. I mean, you hold like a 65 power spotting scope and you can look around like this, which is crazy. Crazy. And the reason why that's so critical to a hunter is we look for movement just like an animal looks for us moving too quickly. But we look for movement like an ear flick or a tail wag or something like or they'll sometimes hide just if they got a fly lands on them. So you're looking for like a small little bit of movement. You can't do that if you're not if you've got movement in your optics. But with that stabilization, it's dead solid. So you can see when that ear flicks.

2:12:23Where you where it'd be flicking before you just didn't notice it. So that's where it's like so critical. But if you think about all this stuff, this top of the line stuff that we talked about with the bows, the camo, the binos, bow hunting fucking still is so hard. Still so hard. That's what's so beautiful about it is it's so challenging. I don't care about it. All this stuff is great. No matter what you do, you're going to stink. Yeah. And if the wind catches the back of your neck and you see that animal's head pop up, it's a wrap. they're designed to get the fuck away from any funky smells of things that eat meat not interested, I'm out of here they smell us, we must stink we must fucking smell like hot death to them because when you see an elk or a deer catches a whiff of you and their head is like, oh no what is this fucking they don't even have to think that long about it and you know, they keep making these rules to try to make bow hunting harder like eliminating certain things like that Garmin sight.

2:13:24I used to love using that Garmin range-finding sight. And then they made it outlawed in Utah. I'm like, oh, guys, come on. Like this doesn't make it any easier. It just makes it so that you're going to wound less things and have more effective shots. But, you know, when you get to that, like it used to be there was no range-finders, right? When you started out, was there any range-finders at all? Nothing. There was no sights when I started out. No peep sight, no fixed sight. That's crazy. We shot fingers with compound. That's crazy. So I'd have a little glove, three-tab glove thing, and you'd shoot that.

2:13:59What year did they invent the archery release? Well, I got one in 89, finally. When did they first come out? Like, who was the first guy that goes, you know what? This is bullshit. I need a thing that I can kill. I like how Cam's like, I got one in 89. I was nine years old. Well, at least you were born. I didn't know the word elk. But you knew the word cunt because they say it all the time down there. They say it when you're a baby. What a cute, kind little cunt.

2:14:33Who was the guy that figured out the archer release? That guy's a wizard. Well, Jim Fletcher, the Fletcher release was the first one I had. And it had a little rope in it. I remember you'd have to put the rope around and it'd hook on the trigger, on the clasp, and then you'd hit the trigger and release it. and I didn't get, I had to replace that rope because it'd start to wear off. So you'd have to have the right knot and then you kind of burn it to get it to hold in there. I didn't have a good enough. So I didn't do that knot right. I go to pull the bow back. The release comes off, hit myself in the face.

2:15:04When I first started buying releases, they would come with a little string. Did they? Yeah. Some releases would come with a little rope and I was like, what the fuck is this for? And it must be for guys who had kind of always done it that way and didn't want to not do it that way anymore because that was like a part of their thing. Maybe. Did you find a Fletcher release? 1971. Wow. 71. Oh, yeah. 71. Look at that. Stanislavski. Yeah. Still, they make awesome releases today. Look at that. That is awesome. That's crazy. Yeah. Oh, so that was just like a thing that went around your fingers. Yeah, and it just turns to let it go.

2:15:45Like a hinge? Yeah. Wow. May revolutionize. Look at that image. May revolutionize archery. Look at that. Go back to that. Look at that. May revolutionize archery by contributing to unprecedented accuracy. I mean, that's essentially like a hinge. Yeah, it is. Wow. Was there a fight back on it at the time? 66. 66. Wow. Wow. I never touched a bow before 64. Wow. It was like, I got an idea for you guys. Wow. Wow, using the six gold bow string release to improve their speed and accuracy. Wow. Oh, his two sons. Glenn and his two sons use this release. I never even heard of this guy's name. Clarence.

2:16:25Look how it works, too. Like, you hook it with your index finger, and then you pull your index finger through, and it pops off. That's crazy. So when you draw it, you have it like that, and then you release it, you let it go. You just let it go. You let it slip. You let it slip with your index finger. Yeah, like a hinge. And it turns. A lot of guys shoot a hinge that way. You know, some guys shoot a hinge by pulling down with their pinky finger. See that piece of rope? Yeah. Hand released from 1950. Whoa. So there's certain releases. That's crazy. Look at that thing. Wow. Look at that thing. It looks like a gun handle.

2:16:59Yeah. That's so weird. Yeah. Huh. $5.95. $5 a night cash. Some things have changed. They pay for postage. That's shipping right now. I mean, you can't even ship for that. They'll pay for that. Yeah. What a cool-looking release. Imagine what a gangster you'd have to be to use that today. Yeah. I love all this stuff, though. Look at that one up there in 1977, a seer-type release. Go up. I was looking at the guy with all the girls. Yeah, that's what you get. See, that's bowhoney. Get all the girls. Look at this. This is the first hinge-style release. Yeah. So this is in the 70s. Huh. Look how weird that thing looks.

2:17:35Yeah. Wow. It was always hard to get a consistent release with fingers, right? Of course. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, your fingers get cold and shit's wet. Totally makes sense. Yeah. Wow. Let's look at the other ones real quick. There was always a big fight in Australia whenever something new come in, like sights on a bow. Go to that image of that guy. Terry Ragsdale. Yeah, he shot PSE. Yeah, he's a legend. PSE, baby. Look at the girls are on their knees. Oh, my God. You shoot that stick so good. See? And that's still how it is, pretty much. That happens all the time. That's how it goes. As soon as you pull a release, I know.

2:18:13They can't wait. They hop out of the trees. You know the way. They're there. You're amazing. He was a stud. I remember Terry and Michelle Ragsdale. Look at that weird looking one. D. Wild, yeah. The wild thing. When I first started, he was the man. Oh, that one has a trigger. That might be one of the first ones with a trigger. Wow. See, that one's with a string. Yeah. If you would buy old Carter releases, some of the releases would come with a little string. Yeah. It was weird. I was like, what is this fucking stupid string for? I never get it. I never even asked anybody. Oh, really? No, it just didn't make sense.

2:18:46See, I remember that. That was 2000, so that's getting newer. Look at the wind release. That's nuts. Yeah. There's an overdraw up there. Yeah. That's cool. Overdraw, right. Wow. Yeah, so that's... 1990. Look at that funky looking one with wood. This episode is brought to you by Gold Belly. Gold Belly ships legendary food from America's best restaurant straight to your house anywhere. Anywhere. Guy Fieri's trash can nachos, Terry Black's brisket in Austin, New York bagels and cheesecake, Chicago deep dish pizza, Pat's cheesesteaks from Philly, even Ina Garten's famous coconut cake. And for your holiday table, they'll ship you the OG Madden turducken and fully cooked deep fried turkeys from Texas.

2:19:33plus this dessert called the pie cake in which is three cakes stuffed with three pies it tastes as insane as it sounds you never have to travel for food again it doesn't matter where you live gold belly will ship it to you so whether you're gifting or hosting gold belly's got you covered go to goldbelly.com and get 20 off your first order with the promo code rogan that's goldbelly.com promo code ROGAN. This is how you win the holidays. This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Tis the season for identity theft. This time of year, most of us are checking off our holiday gift list. But guess what?

2:20:13Identity thieves have lists too, and your personal information might be on them. Protect your identity with LifeLock. LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points every second and alerts you to threats you could miss by yourself, even if you keep an eye your bank and credit card statements. If your identity is stolen, your own U.S.-based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Plus, all plans are backed by the million dollar protection package. And you know that person in your life who is impossible to shop for? Maybe it's a grandparent or your mom or a close friend.

2:20:49Well, here's an idea. Give them the gift of peace of mind and get them LifeLock. The last thing you or anyone wants to do this holiday season is face drained accounts, fraudulent loans, or other financial losses from identity theft all alone. Make this season about joy, not identity theft, with LifeLock. Save up to 40 % your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use the promo code JRE or go to lifelock.com slash JRE for 40 % off. Terms apply. That's kind of cool looking. So it gets us a thumb button? It must be. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Wow. Wow. And see, some of them have strings. Yep. So in case people were like old school.

2:21:38Yeah, pretty cool. Wow. Archery history. So how would you, when you first started, how would you measure distance? Was it all just in your mind? Just instinct. Instinct. Yeah. So just like throwing a ball. Yeah. So you just have to, you know, it's just like now they have unmarked 3D tournaments where they don't have it. you just have to get out there and kind of judge um it was definitely harder back then because the bows weren't as fast so you're you could only be off by like a yard or two or you'd miss now with a faster flatter shooting bow you can be off you can't be out by five yards right for people who don't know what we're talking about the slower the bow is the more it's going to drop by the time it gets to target the faster the bow is the flatter it's going to shoot you've learned your cast on bow too so he never wanted to get rid of that bow because you would literally learn the cast of an arrow that's what what adam's talking about is the trajectory so we used to practice this all the time like you'd have a target out there at 60 yards but halfway in between you and the target you couldn't even see the target so you put like you could put a car and so you're looking through the car window because you can see through the glass and line of sight you're going to go right to break the windows and everything else.

2:22:51But you just know that at 60 yards, that arrow is going to be 10 yards above that car halfway there. So at 30 yards, the arrow has to go up to come down at 60. So you could just aim right at the car. Arrow's going right over it. So we do stuff like that just for fun. To figure out the arc of the arrow. Right. But not even, that was like just an elementary example just so people could get what I'm saying. But when we'd get in the woods, then there'd be a branch. Like I said, I shot with Levi Morgan. He came out and did lift, run, shoot. I'm like, okay, I'm going to beat this fucker. He's 16, 17-time world champion.

2:23:27So I had all these shots where it's like, okay, this branch, is he going to know? This one shot was like, I think it was 90-some yards at a deer up on the hill, but there's this big branch halfway in between it. And I knew it was kind of hard to tell, is your arrow going to go over it or under it, right? Right. It was because you didn't know that. I think it was about 25 yards away. I knew what my arrow was going to do because I practiced over and over and over. And I'm going to be like, oh, Levi's going to fuck this one up for sure. I'll I'll beat him on this target. Sure. Shit. He knew exactly what his arrow was going to do.

2:24:03But that's he practices that all the time and done it his whole life and in this and that. But just fun games like that. and it was only just to make us because when you're hunting that shit happens all the time but where i would kind of screw myself up is i loved the challenge of shots so much like and i shot between trees so often because that was like my thing i could just like even it was just like like four inches i'd be like oh i can hold through there so when i was hunting if i'd see a challenging shot on an animal i'd be like where i could have maybe taken a step to the right and got wide open i'd be like i can make this shot and like fucking up like making my hunting shot more challenging because i was just young and an idiot now i'd be like i'd be stupid i just go right here and shoot but i would do that but we'd practice that all the time because it was fun yeah and then you'd like have you'd want your i mean i had so much confidence in shooting i would shoot hours and hours and hours every day i remember one time we're at this uh hinson's uh these guys who We used to bow hunt with us.

2:25:10Me and Roy were there. And there's a bale out there at 70-some yards. And then a piece of foam that was like a broadhead target used to be just a square piece of foam, like two inches, maybe three inches wide, but like by two foot by two foot. And that was your broadhead target. And that would stop an arrow with a broadhead target, just that two or three inches of foam. Well, the foam target, the broadhead target was laying flat on the bale at 70 yards. So it was only like two inches. And we would like have these competitions all the time. I'm like, I said, see that broadhead target on the cedar bale?

2:25:44Yeah. I'm going to hit that broadhead target. And I would hit it. So we were the best shots ever with no range finders. So then Bushnell finally came up with a range finder. And it was like a kind of like a. I remember like a cassette. Like a, yeah, kind of longer, like an eight track tape almost. Like sort of size. And then it had a dial on it. And the images, it'd be off. And then if you lined up the image like this, that would be – you look at the – then you'd look at it wherever that image lined up. That would be the yardage. So then you'd be like, oh, okay, that's close to 50 yards. Then you'd know to shoot for 50.

2:26:24But it wasn't very accurate. It was close. And did you have a sight tape? You had pins. You had pins. Yeah, the sights didn't move at that time. So your pins would be set up at like 20, 30, 40, 50, something like that? Yeah, and they just had like, we called them T-Dots. So it was like a little plastic, sort of like fiber, but it's like red plastic that would sort of like have light on it. Like a little, just a little light up. No fiber optics or anything. No, it wasn't fiber, but it would light up a little because it was red plastic. Yeah, I heard people talking about this the other day. They were talking about Josh Jones and Josh and Tim's Fireside Chat.

2:27:04Yeah. It's a great podcast. Yeah. They were talking about how a site that you buy today for like$25 is so superior to anything that existed in like 1990. Yeah. It still made it enjoyable. It still made it a lot more successful. You know, it's like it was still a big advance at that time. Yeah. But to think about where it is now is insane. Well, the Garmin site, like I was telling you about, it had a few flaws. I had one that worked perfectly, and then I had a second one. You know when you get you one of the things you said when you get a new bow You don't want to put old shit on the yeah, you want to put new shit I like new stuff.

2:27:40I did that too But unfortunately my first garment site worked perfectly my second one didn't work so good Like there would be times where it worked perfectly and then times where I couldn't get a range I'd press it. It wouldn't go I'm a full draw press it won't go press it won't go press it finally But when it does work you get this like a red dot you get a clear screen and on that screen is a red dot no pins no wires no nothing and oh i loved it when it worked perfect because then say if you hit an elk at 50 yards and then he he stands out at 80 and he's still standing broadside you don't have to rearrange you just press a button on your on your grip and it instantly gives you a new range yeah i think i we talked about this before and i think i mentioned that the goal is to try to protect the integrity of archery like keeping it primitive so it's like where's that line right in utah in utah they decided that that that garmin site was past the line of primitive you know so we want to we want to honor archery and the history of archery and yes there's been advancements but it's always it's a it's a moving target on where the line is to keep it primitive i get it but if you've ever i don't think i think it's ignorant because i think if you use one of those things you realize like all it's doing is taking a step away It's still the same exact thing.

2:29:00You're range-finding either way, and then you're dialing to 50 yards and whatever you have to do to execute the shot then. But this way, you're a full draw, and the range-finding is a part of that. It's just smarter. If it worked perfectly, it's smarter. And I think they're going to get better, and I'm sure the software is better. I haven't used it in two years. But when it worked, it was amazing. It was like this is really what you want. What you want is to absolutely know the exact distance so you can make an ethical shot. So if you range at 50 and then he takes a few steps and then you're guessing because you can't re-range.

2:29:39Look, we already have a less than 10 % success rate anyway. It's not like everyone who gets a tag is going to get an elk. It's a small number of people that are really successful all the time. But that would keep you from wounding. And that should be our goal always. I don't think it's any easier. It's just more effective. I think there's more room for error in it, though, isn't there? Because, like, my binoculars are the range finder, so I can definitely get the dot 100 % on the animal. Right. Whereas I think with those sights, it's a little bit more difficult to definitely be ranging that animal and not a branch five yards behind it or five yards in front of it.

2:30:16Not when you're at full draw. No, they're really good. So when you're at full draw, when it worked at full draw, you're steady like your pin, right? So you have a target. and the target is like this little red thing and when you put it on there and then you press the button then it gives you your pin like yeah but what if you're not on it what if you're like because you said it would eliminate wounding which it wouldn't no no it's i didn't say to eliminate wounding if i did i misspoke what i meant was you're going to get less of that because you're going to have more effective exact ranges right but you said like if you needed a follow-up shot, that's where people, we know adrenaline goes crazy for sure after the first shot.

2:30:56So if they're wound up and they're shooting too quickly because that side allows it, would that, could that be a negative? But it's a follow-up shot. And why are you shooting too quickly? That's a mind management thing. You know, you should figure out how to manage your mind and calm yourself down and make that shot. You wouldn't freak out on a second shot if you had that. Right. That's what I'm saying. And if you had that and you 100 % could count on it the same way you count on your rangefinder, that would be the best thing for everybody. Best thing for the animal, best thing for you, best thing for everybody.

2:31:27And it's a way better sight picture. The sight picture is amazing. It's a red dot. It's just like a red dot on a pistol. You know, like a red dot on a pistol? That's what it looks like. That dot is just sitting there, and you just can put it right on the vitals. It's a beautiful feeling when you watch through that rangefinding sight, and you put that pin on, and then the arrow releases, and then you watch that arrow soar and boink right in there. Ooh. That's good hunting. Ooh, it's nice. I don't doubt that. I'm just devil's advocate. I get it. Look, I'm a fan of a company that does something like that.

2:32:02I'm a fan of Garmin. I've got a Garmin watch on right now. I'm a fan of Garmin, period. They make awesome shit. They make awesome range finding. I mean, awesome GPS equipment. They make awesome watches. They make great shit. They make great chest straps, the workout things. They make awesome stuff. So I'm just happy that someone put the research and development and the money that must have taken to put together a fucking range-finding binocular, range-finding site, rather, that actually works. Yeah. I agree. I mean— I just want a better one. I want it perfect. That'll get there. I want it like my—like, I have one of the things that I fucking love.

2:32:38I have a Leupold Full Draw 5. That's my favorite rangefinder of all time because it gives you the arc of the arrow at its peak. That is so huge. Yeah, that's cool. And I used it to kill a bull once because, and when I had that Garmin sight, in fact, because I had the Garmin sight and I ranged this elk and it was at 50 yards, but there was a hole only like this where I could shoot through. And I was like, oh, I don't know. So then I pull out the loophole and I hit the button and I see the exact arc of the arrow where it's going to be at its height. And its height was six inches below those branches.

2:33:13I'm like, we're good. Yeah. We're good. So just keep the pin on them and it was perfect. See that thing? Ah, fucking love that thing. That thing's so huge. So you know exactly. Right there is a little sketch, right? Because that could hit it on the way in, right? So that's the height of your arrow. But that doesn't mean where's that tree? Yeah. That tree might be 20 yards ahead of you. You might smack right into that fucking thing. So you have to take that into consideration. But having that extra indication of the height, the high point of the arrow. Huge. See, on this, you just take a step to the left.

2:33:44Exactly. Or if you were me when I was younger, you'd just shoot right there. Just shoot straight for that. Or would you get on your knees? Yeah, get on your knees. Get on your knees and execute the shot. But it's like having that knowledge, what it's going to keep is that arrow whacking that branch and then sticking in his ass and wounding him. Whereas you might have made a perfect release, but because of that high point of the arrow indication, now you know. And you can make a more educated decision. It's all about making the ethical shot. And so for me, anything that allows you, it's still going to be really fucking hard to do.

2:34:18It's always hard. Here's, here's, okay. So I'll just do a list real quick. The biggest help in bow hunting has been the laser rangefinder. That, that changed the game. Definitely. Now, that was back in the day. Now. And sight tapes. Now, well, some people, yeah, some, some people don't do well with sight tapes in the heat of the moment. as far as dialing the site. Right. But it's made me more accurate at longer range for sure to be able to dial the site and hold right on. Yeah. Right now, so a positive has been Onyx or the mapping system as far as for hunting the mountains. That has helped so many people and so much confidence.

2:34:58Huge. That's a giant one. It's like, that's one reason why the back country definitely has more people in it because more people are confident. It used to be like, you used to have to read a 7.5 minute per angle topo map. You don't have to do that shit anymore. So now you don't have to figure out where your car is anymore. You put the, you mark your car, you're good to go. That's been huge. There's a huge negative, not too many people are talking about. And it's using optics with, they pick up heat signature. What are those called? Thermals. Thermals. Yeah, those, dude, it's not good for hunting.

2:35:37You don't, so glassing is an art. We've talked about glass and having good glass movement. Glassing is an art. These thermal optics, you don't have to be good at anything. You're like a predator. You put them up and it tells you where the animal is. So I've never even used one, but I've talked to guys who have used them and I know that it's not great because what would take hours to glass it and you probably would miss, you know, a bedded mule deer buck. Five minutes, you know, where every animal is on that hill. That's a good argument. There's a good argument that that's too far. That is way too far.

2:36:11And is that legal in most states? It hasn't even hardly been covered. Really? It's kind of a new technology that they don't even address, really. I think California's outlawed it. I hope so, because it needs to be outlawed everywhere. That's a good point. So many big animals are getting killed that shouldn't be getting killed right now by guys using thermals. And is it a loophole? Are they doing it when they shouldn't be doing it in some states? Or is it because to catch people is tough. You know, hunting is about honor, honor and respect. It's what we talk about. We police ourselves. We do it right.

2:36:44You know, I mean, yeah, there's people who get busted for doing shit, but most people are just out there policing ourselves. Well, it's because they want that same respect. Yeah. We talked about it. What's Halliday's first name again? Cal Halliday. Cal Halliday. Yeah. When you talk about that guy, they want you to talk about, every man wants you to talk about him. Like that. And he's not around like that. and they're not going to if you're cutting corners and you're using some shit you're not supposed to use. Or what is the law on that though? Because like every state has different laws, right?

2:37:14Like Nevada, you're allowed to use walkie-talkies or at least you used to be able to. We can tell people, hey, he's right above you. It's a little bit probably like the e-bike thing where it's so fresh that they haven't come up with you can or you can't right now. It's a bicycle. No, it's not. It's a motorcycle. It's optics. No, it's not. It's thermals. Right. Yeah. Let's see what the laws are. Put that into perplexity. What are the laws? What states allow thermal binoculars for hunting? Thermal scopes are not universally allowed for hunting. Yeah, but not thermal scopes, thermal binoculars. Yeah.

2:37:50Does it say thermal? It says thermal optics down below right there in Europe. Owning thermal optics is often the same. Yeah, but what about in America? In America, what states allow thermal binoculars for hunting? Put that in there. Not scopes. That's the problem. It's the word scope is for a rifle scope. Binoculars. Let's see. How crazy is this AI where it just does this and immediately gives you the answer? Thermal imaging devices, including binoculars and monoculars, are legal to own in the United States. And many states allow them in some hunting context, especially predators or nuisance species like hogs or coyotes.

2:38:31However, several states either completely ban thermal for any hunting or ban possession, rather, use of thermal devices while taking or locating wildlife. So examples of state rules, some states explicitly allow thermal optics for night hunting. For example, Texas, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Missouri, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, authorize thermal devices for specific predator or invasive species hunts in their 2025 regulations. Other states such as Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Tennessee, prohibit thermal optics for hunting wildlife altogether or for most game species.

2:39:07So a lot of states. So it seems like a few states are on the ball with this. Yeah. I mean, it's a big deal because those animals, to get to trophy status for these animals, they're old. They've survived. They know what it takes. They've done it. They've outwitted hunters for years. and now in their best bed where a man would never be able to find them by glassing those that behind a tree but a knee is showing up it's like it's not it's not hunting it's not right it's not use it's not the art of glassing which is what you know how we've developed these skills it's using technology that makes sense it makes sense because it's like you're you're saying there is a line yeah you know and then you right you are actively campaigning for something that's going to make your job easier to go away.

2:39:56Yeah. I wanted to keep the challenge there. Well, it's also what he said when, like you said, in the town you grew up, if you killed a big buck, people respected you. Why? Because that's really hard to do. Those big old bucks are fucking smart and they are tuned in, man. They hear branch snap and it's like, fuck this. Boing. They're that big for a reason. They're that big for a reason. Switched on. Yeah. Yeah. And I know in Utah, I was going down this creek this year. And I saw, like, there's some cedar trees, like kind of a patch of them there. But basically there's a tunnel in there and then a deer bed.

2:40:33And, like, you couldn't see it from anywhere. And I was thinking, man, if a buck was bedded there, you'd have no idea, right? But you would now if you had the thermal optics. And that was a perfect example of a buck that found that bed. That's already safe, and that's how we survived now that that's taken that away. taking that away. There's probably trad guys listening to this podcast, though. I'm being like, fuck off, you dickheads. For people that don't know what that means, trad guys are guys who hunt with a regular old-school bow and arrow, like a recurve bow. Which is cool. It's a good challenge.

2:41:04They're just guessing where that arrow's going to go. You know? Well, practice. Oh, yeah, they practice. But there is a lot of guessing. You're guessing the yardage. You're guessing where your arrow's going to hit. You know? I mean, some of those guys that trad bow hunt, Do they use range finders? No. None of them. So all of them are just guessing. It's instinct. I try and do a couple of tread by heart. Instinct is it. Because it's like when you throw a rock, is that guessing? No, it's instinct. Right. Yeah. It's just like to get good at pitching a baseball. Right. You know, I mean, it's the same.

2:41:36Some people are really good. Except the pitcher's mound and the batter's box are the same distance every time. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, that's the difference. Well, if you're disciplined, you would know that it's under 20 yards every time and that's what you'd take. Yeah. But there's a lot of guys that can take a poke with a recurve bow. Yeah. You know? They're pretty accurate with it. Like, they have some different ways of measuring, like, where the tip of it is at 40 yards. They know that that's when it's going to hit dead on. Yeah. They look down the arrow instead of like we do through a peephole.

2:42:05They're looking down the shaft of the arrow. They look all squirrely and shit like this. They look so squirrely. They put it on their eye or they put it here and they use the point of the arrow, as you said. But, yeah, it's like most people, though, like you talk about discipline, like I'm going to shoot if it's 20 yards or less. That's the only time I'm going to shoot. Unless it's huge. It all goes out the window. It's 70, have a crack. I had to shoot. Once in a lifetime. It was the biggest thing I've ever seen. I had to shoot. Sometimes you see things and you're like, how do I get to that? How do I find them, even if it's far away?

2:42:40Yeah. Yeah. Normally, like you see stuff, here's would be the technology that would really hurt because you see something a mile away and you know that animal's there. If I could just get to that tree line, if you could just be there. Yeah. Well, that's where those long range rifle guys, that's a whole different argument, right? Oh, fuck. I hate that too. Some of those guys, they'll take a poke 700, 900 yards, you know, and they're real accurate with it. These guys are so good. Like they're shooting. Yeah. And that's, that's a whole nother taking into account the wind across the canyon. And I saw this guy, I'm pretty sure the other Tanner was showing me this cause you know, so much waste of time shit on Instagram, but this was kind of cool.

2:43:23He was shooting so far and he's so good. So he's prone down, had his long range, all his shit, all everything they do. It's that's a whole art. But anyway, he shot, and I think he was, if I remember right, he shot, and it was so far, he put another shell in, got another bullet on the way. They both hit steel. That's crazy. They both hit steel. At least it was steel and not like some beagle in shape. So he racked another round in in the time it took for the bullet to get there? Yes. That's crazy. And sent the other one on the way, and so it was like a dong dong. That's crazy. Yeah. That's crazy.

2:43:59This guy's a machine, though. I wish I could remember the fucking page. But the guy's a machine because you can see he's down in his gun. Just like fucking in and still on that scope, didn't even move. Boom. That's a whole other art form. That's a whole other keeping your shit together. Crazy long-range shooting. I know a lot of guys that get into it. My friend Justin got really into that. Once you get into long-range shooting, you start just fucking craving it. They just want to hit that steel at 1 ,500 yards. It's nuts. Some of these guys, they shoot insane. What is the record for the longest shot ever taken in a competition?

2:44:38Like those long-range competitions. What do you think it is? I mean, it's 2 ,000 yards for sure. Really? Yeah. That's so crazy. I would think people are shooting at 2 ,000. I'll have a crack. Yeah, you tell me. 2.4 miles. Wow. Wait. Really? Did I say yards? What did I mean? Did I mean yards? Yeah, I had many yards. He almost nailed it. What is it? Actually, yeah, 2.4 miles. Yeah, baby. Wow. How did you guys – you motherfucker. You looked that up somehow. How could he – he lives in Australia. They're not allowed to know this information. I don't even know what Miles is. If you even search this online, the police show up at your door.

2:45:18Holy smoke. 4 ,224-yard shot at the Clark – this guy, Robert Brantley, at the Clarks-Knob ELR match in Kansas, described as a new world record in long-range shooting, achieved under match conditions. That's incredible. That is so crazy. Non-competition almost doubled it. Look at that. Oh, my God. In 2022 in Wyoming, a team recorded a 4.4-mile, 7 ,744-yard hit on steel after dozens of tries. Whoa. Wow. Wow, but not a standard scored competition stage. Wow. The problem is, guys see that? Like, 4.4 miles, they're like, oh, I could shoot it 1 ,000 yards then. Right, look at that thing. They never fucking practice.

2:46:07Good Lord. Yeah, these guys, I mean, the amount of no moving you have to have. Oh, my God, dude. It's crazy. But, yeah, the guy out there with their Bi-Mart 30-06. Do you guys have Bi-Marts here? Have you ever heard of Bi-Mart? What's a Bi-Mart? It's a store. Oh, no. Like a sporting goods store, or not a sporting goods, but anyway, like they got their, you know,$250 rifle from Bymart,.30-06, and they're like, they see that and they're like, oh, shit, then I could shoot it 600 yards. They shoot it 4.4 miles. That's the problem. That is part of the problem. But people say that about me, too, is like, oh, people will say I always talk about shooting animals at 100 yards, which I have never one time.

2:46:49But yeah, I practice a long range but they try to lump me in like I'm I'm ruining and promoting long-range shooting No, you're just amplifying if you're off at all, you know, practice. Yeah, no, it's what I always said is her rifle for the 4.4 miles Well, look at that fuckers are heavy too. Oh, yeah. Look at it I mean it looks ago the longboat just needs a string on a barbell. It's probably I Mean I bet it's 30 40 pounds. I don't know. Does it say the weight on those things? The size of that gun. Look at the barrel in it. Yeah. That's nuts. Yeah. First confirmed and verified world record. Yeah.

2:47:28This isn't the actual one. This is 2018. That shot was taken in 2022. Oh, so this is a world record before the world record. Hmm. Wow. Yeah. I feel like I'd get AIDS if I touched a gun. I know those guns are heavy. That's what the government tells you? You get AIDS? The scrying government. You don't want to touch a gun, you might get AIDS. That's exactly what we say. It's only if you stick it up your ass, I guess. No, you got to stick it up your ass after somebody stuck it up their ass. Oh, right. Yeah. You got to get a second. It's like dirty needles. I hate when that happens. Yeah. That's another thing.

2:48:02It's like, you know, like bow hunters look at rifle hunters like, oh, that's kind of easy. Traditional hunters look at compound hunters like, oh, that's easy. And then there's guys out there, I use a fucking spear. Each to their own, too. Yeah. For sure. As long as you're ethical. As long as you could do it. I mean, I'm sure there's probably some guy out there that knows how to hit a target with an atlatl. You know? Probably. I mean, if I'm using a spear, I don't do anything past three yards. That's like... I spear the buffalo 11 or 12 years ago. It was pretty cool. Did you really? Oh, God. Probably edit that out.

2:48:42We were trying to figure out... I killed it. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. We were trying to figure out the other day like when the actual bow and arrow was invented and it's kind of difficult to track down But it's see the weird thing is it seems to have been invented or at least seems to exist Simultaneously at many spots all over the world at the same time, which is really interesting Yeah, it makes you think like I wonder We really don't know how much people were traveling back then. We really don't know There's a lot of guessing. And they keep pushing back maritime travel. They keep pushing back, like, the age of when the first maybe even primitive humans were using some sort of a raft to get across lakes and rivers and maybe even oceans.

2:49:28But, you know, sharing that information, like, who is the wizard that looked at a stick and goes, if I could just put one of these fucking things at the end of that stick. Oh, cool. Hey, why do you have that? I always have that. It's always sitting right here. Oh, I thought you had it in your pocket. I did. Because I put it in my pocket sometimes. I'm fiddling with it. Yeah, I play with that thing. That's a real one. That's from here. Whoa, that's a fucking good one. Yeah. I found one in New Mexico. Yeah, that's a good one, right? Remy said that one was probably used for fish. He said because it's so big.

2:50:00Oh, okay. That was his guess. But maybe. It might have been used for bison. Sort of barbed. I mean, it's not. I mean, it would cut. I mean, it's sort of sharp. Yeah. I mean, as sharp as you can get it. huh that's cool though it's not like modern broadheads modern broadheads you could shave your arm with you know they cut your eyes when you look at them too hard bro yeah but that's what you want you know that's the other thing like is that too is that too good is that too easy it's too sharp go back to flint go back maybe you should make your own arrowheads pussy no arm there was like eating this guy's a guy that uh i oh he went to high school with but he's he would say his dad would um like shoot his arrows down the road to make him he would like want to make the broadhead door so it'd go in and rip a bigger hole what so it's like so he thought yeah yeah anyway people come up with some crazy shit well if they don't know that's the one of the things that's cool about when i got into bow hunting and especially learning it from you i already knew so much just from talking to you you you had so much information I didn't have to like figure it out nearly as much I said to listen you know like so many people have already figured out metal broadheads so like we were having a conversation about lighted Knox this weekend and I'm like damn it I think I must stop using lighted Knox yeah sorry the weight and no I think you got a really good point like that additional 10 grains at the end can't be good for accuracy it just can't be I think you've got to pick the situation though and it's a little bit, you know, like if I'm going to the Arctic and there's no sunlight and I want to see where the arrow hits, okay, a lighted knock's going to override the little bit of inconsistency.

2:51:44Because it's a dull environment. It's hard to see. It's almost like you're dusk all day long. Yeah. And I think like hunting pigs in their beds, you know, you're under the trees, it's dark, it might come into play a little bit more there. But if it's not required, then yeah, why interrupt even a little bit of accuracy? because you get to a certain point in bow hunting where we're talking about the arrow shafts. The better the match grade of arrow shafts you can use, you don't notice at the start with because you're just shooting, and you're not super consistent, you're not super accurate, and then all those little things end up bringing a group from that to that, and there's the difference, and you'll notice that at this point in your archery.

2:52:25Yeah, it makes sense. It totally makes sense. But it's just, again, thank God somebody figured all this stuff out. because like if you had to come along and do it all by yourself like oh it was a hard learning curve it's like in australia that like we didn't have the the sort of figures and probably knowledge that you guys did because it's like it's part of your pastime right i was talking to evan about this it's like part of the american pastime a bow hunter whereas in australia it's not you know and it's not there's not all the information out there and it seemed like australia was probably about 10 years behind the US on sites, release aids, the knowledge behind it.

2:53:05Um, and yeah, I, I think the fact that you guys have, like we were talking about Fred bear, you know, like paving the way for bow hunting in America and, you know, Australia has had its, its, um, idols as well. And people that have paved the way, but a lot slower than here, um, to have all the knowledge for you to have someone like cam is absolutely brilliant because you are you've probably made those mistakes yourself or learn them yourself and then so you go straight to joe and be like this is a good setup this works this doesn't and then in australia the first things i sold were target sites for bow hunting you know and it's just like and we didn't know any better so as well as wasting time you wasted a lot of money you wasted a lot of effort you wasted a lot of heartache you know on on finding your way in bow hunting yeah and there's still guys right now that's shoot instinctual with a compound yeah it's it's uh the internet has definitely helped like educate people you know we used to have to learn it all on our own which is like i think to adam's point where it's nice when you have a resource or a mentor a lot of the times we didn't have that we had magazines we didn't have internet so we just have to figure it out but when we talk about like the lighted knots lighted knocks specifically you mentioned the weight the weight is one part but it's also the inconsistency of having those electronics back there on the back of the arrow and you just can't get as good as a knock or so that's the connection point from the arrow to the string it's just not going to be as good with electronics in there with it's trying to serve a different purpose of lighting up that knock where to in my opinion that's going to help me maybe decide on when to go after the animal knowing where I hit it, but it's not going to make me any more lethal.

2:54:55It's going to make me less lethal. I want the most accurate arrow possible and where that goes, whether I see it or not, doesn't really matter. I'm going to have to get on that blood trail and recover that animal regardless. So just knowing where the arrow hit isn't making it any more deadly or not. You know, it's just how that might impact how I react to that shot but i want the most accurate that's why i shoot those you know the x10s 50 an arrow because it's the straightest most accurate arrows what they've used in the olympics since 1996 so you can use other arrows they're not as straight not as good you can put lighted knocks on you're giving up accuracy you can do it if you want and you can say it's going to help in these other arenas it's not going to help with accuracy so all i care about is that arrow going where I want it to go.

2:55:48That's how I look at things. It's the most important. It makes sense. It makes sense. And the amount of times where the lighted knock would help you is dwarfed in comparison to the amount of times where accuracy is critical. Accuracy is always critical. And there's only a small amount of times where that lighted knock is really going to come into play where it really helps you. That's what I... I mean, it's cool and it's nice and it looks... I've never used one, so I mean, maybe I've... I guess I have a few times, but I just was like just thinking about it like, no, it's not helping me. I always think about it when I take the regular Nox off and put the light ones on.

2:56:30Like the regular Nox are solid. Yeah. And the lighted ones, there's a hole in the center of it where you've got electronics and a light bulb and a battery. I know. Like there's a bunch of shit in there. Yeah. It has to have some sort of an effect. Right. Yeah. Didn't Tom Miranda used to have something where he had a weight on the back of his arrow? Didn't he have something crazy, some weird setup? I don't know. Not the breadcrumb, like the tracker. I don't remember what he had. No, it wasn't that. It was like a thing that he did to the back of his arrow. I was like, that seems counterintuitive.

2:57:00Where he had additional weight on the back. I don't know what I'm talking about. I can't remember. I don't know, but Tom Miranda, that's old school. Old school. So you're looking at, I mean, he's still out there getting it done, but that's, I mean, that's history. Is that what we were talking about the other day with the Tom Miranda movie? Oh, he's had those TV shows on forever. Adventure bow hunting with Tom Miranda. Yeah, I know. I didn't know we were talking about that. Oh, okay, yeah. Getting around the world hunting. Bro, that guy went all over the world hunting. Yeah. All over the world.

2:57:30He was one of the first guys that ever heard about using a sauna to help his hunting. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He felt like, because he was living in Florida, and the guy was like, why do you want a sauna in your house here in Florida? and he's like because it makes you have more endurance yeah it's better for hunting I didn't know that's yeah it was pretty cool like that Tom Miranda yeah yeah old school okay it's cool to introduce all that stuff in the hunting like if you're that passionate you know I did this I got the ice bath at home I did the hypoxic wellness which is I think I was telling Joe about this where I decked the home gym out so it's basically a gym at altitude now and that's what i was using before i got to utah and it actually made me be able to go from the bottom of the mountain to the top without stopping to take a breath which is incredible so so it's altitude training it's altitude is it a tent or no it's the whole room oh but this a company called leonix now they make say it could be the size of this and it would have red light therapy in here it would have a sauna in here it would have the hypoxic conditioning in here so basically pumping nitrogen in the room to drop the oxygen levels um and so you could have gym equipment in here you could sit in here and read a book but the way that i've got it set out i'm doing a workout in it now and i've got a target in the corner i literally shoot my bow in there at like 14 500 feet and then to step out of that and like i live at sea level back in australia to step out of that at sea level like you feel oh absolutely incredible yeah i bet and then that's so what was utah 8 ,000.

2:59:08Sometimes. 7 or 8 ,000 feet. Probably 9 at the highest. And I'd be training at 14 ,500. So I felt amazing when I went there. It was awesome. Technology. Technology. That is useful. Because that's what athletes do. They go to high altitude training in the mountains and then they come down to lower elevation where there's more oxygen and there's more oxygen available to push themselves harder. So their body's used to that. it created more red blood cells essentially i think it's like a natural i think that's what epo they say does so it's a natural way to do that and uh yeah i mean so it just doesn't stay very long is that right yeah only stays in your system like your system eventually acclimates to whatever the altitude is but before it does that you have a nice advantage like there's that's why the time is i think it's like a couple weeks okay um i think that's why they probably put the olympic training center in Colorado Springs you know they want yeah it's my people to train it it totally makes sense yeah it makes sense train an altitude I found mentally I felt a lot better too and then so I've now I've done a bit of reading up on it and it's like the plasticity of their brain improves under those conditions as well and then make sense adapters or die yeah I just feel so happy afterwards I was sleeping in there in the end because I was trying to fit in as much which can be detrimental as well like you don't want to overdo it but I was sleeping in there in the end and I'd wake up in the morning and I was just like on a high for like four or five hours why would they say not to overdo it because when they go train at altitude they're up there the whole time just to get acclimated I bet initially yeah and I do it initially yeah okay yeah and I also think that a part of the you know it'd be like overdoing your muscles if you just kept doing arms every single day you know that's what he does

3:01:02you can't help it can you that bike that you sent me is fucking awesome by the way because i i love the you know the airdyne bikes i love those things it's like my favorite conditioning thing and i love the echo bike from rogue but i think that one's even superior to the bionic bike how consistent the the drag is on it as you but even more importantly it's harder yeah it's harder to pull back like the echo bike is easier to pull back that one has more resistance yeah and when i when i first started using that one i was like whoa this one's tough like whatever you're getting out of the echo bike or the airdyne bike that's that times two really yeah what is it called again step r step it's stpr right yep yeah yeah that thing fucking rules yeah that thing rules i'll get them the deck yeah because all their equipment's like that well that that bike is the shit And it's also got different grips, different hand grips and different seat.

3:01:57I'm changing that up. I'm at the top. I'm down here. I'm at the top. You can mix it up. You can mix up where the resistance is coming from. And I actually lift the seat right up. So it's nearly like I'm in the standing position. Oh, nice. With the seat up and the legs are right down and it burns me. Yeah. Absolutely burns me. I love it. It's a great low impact cardio too. I mean, it really conditions the shit out of your legs and your lungs. And you're not taking any pounding while you're doing it. I think it's hard. I'm stoked you like it. Oh, I love it. Yeah, because when it was in there, I didn't know when it had gotten delivered.

3:02:29And I was like, oh, what the fuck is this? And then when it was in the gym, I started trying. The moment I got on, I was like, oh. And it's easy to crank up, too. Like, it's right there. There's no reaching down. The handle's right there. Just, woo. It's good. There's so many different things you could use now. But what were you saying about earlier? It's like you have the opportunity now to be better than you've ever been before. Yeah. Because of all this hormone optimization, the ways to well stuff, peptides, nutrition, understanding exercise science, and then equipment. You could condition your body and you could be in amazing shape at 58, which is crazy.

3:03:06The knowledge of knowing that's actually out there is I'm grateful for. Oh, yeah. Just the knowledge and knowing that we can be better every day. We can be healthier physically and mentally. It's great. And I see, I do see a lot of doctors who kind of shit on BPC or shit on stem cells. And I'm like. whatever you're saying cool but i've never felt better so there's a lot of doctors He's the proof, baby. You could say it doesn't work. Yeah. There's a lot of doctors. I've talked to doctors that shit on it, and I had this one conversation with a doctor that I like. He's a nice guy. And he's like, I think it's a lot of a placebo.

3:03:45And I go, there's peer-reviewed studies on BBC 157. You're saying this, and you haven't done the research. This is not debatable. BBC 157, there's a very clear pathway. They show why it works. It naturally exists in the human body and you can enhance your body's ability to recover from soft tissue injuries. It's important. It's good. It's good for you. Like the idea that somehow or another this is horseshit. Like, no, you're horseshit. You're spitting out some nonsense. And the problem is a lot of doctors in particular, a lot of very educated people that are specialists in whatever they're in.

3:04:17Like, you know, you got a doctor, you went to school, you got a medical degree, you went to school, you did your residency. You want to be the one who has all the information. When someone comes along and says, actually, a better way to do it is through stem cells, like stem cells. Yeah. Like, what do you mean, oh, stem cells? How much do you know? Neil Reardon has written many papers on stem cells. Like there's a documented efficacy on neurological conditions, soft tissue injuries, joint rehabilitation. It's not guessing. Right. For a doctor to say, I wouldn't mess with stem cells. It's unproven.

3:04:52The FDA hasn't approved it. It's because the FDA sucks. Yeah. It doesn't mean that it doesn't work like there's scientists that are studying this stuff and there's people that are using it You got shit tons of anecdotal evidence from world-class athletes. It'll tell you the benefits of it Yeah, the reason why the UFC is partnered up with CPI down in Mexico, but they have to go to fucking Mexico to do this stuff You know which is crazy, but now Yeah, but ways to Wells Brigham in particular is really working hard to make all that stuff available in the United States And it's only good. It's good for everybody.

3:05:24It's not bad for medicine. People are always going to need doctors. It's crazy. It's just more advancement. And the problem is it's going to, for sure, it's going to interfere with people who want to sell you pain pills. It's going to interfere with people that want to do unnecessary surgeries. And unfortunately, that's a real thing. That's where they make their money. And people like to say that, well, it's not FDA approved. And I'm like, have you seen the shit that is FDA approved? It's like, that doesn't mean anything to me. I might not want to take it if it is. Something like 30 % of all medications that get approved by the FDA get pulled.

3:06:00Yeah. It's just like, that doesn't mean shit to me. What is the percentage? Put that in there. You look at all the fucking poisonous food they sell us, which is FDA approved. I'm like, so that's your argument? And not approved in other countries. Yeah. Like other countries have banned it, outlawed it. And we're like, fine, that's fine. It makes your Cheerios. I was saying the difference in ingredients between countries and it's like crazy America has so much Cheerios is a bad example. Fruit Loops is the best example like the fact that like they were like, oh, we can't do that Well, you do it in Canada.

3:06:31You sell the fucking the same stuff with different dye with natural dyes Yeah, yeah, it's not as bright, but it also doesn't kill you. It's not poison. It's just so gross They just they're so bought and paid for and here's the real problem A lot of these motherfuckers, they go from being working at the FDA to cushy jobs in these major corporations. Right. It's like they have this golden power shoot set. A hundred percent. Compromised. 2.9 % of FDA approved new drugs from 1980 to 2021 were withdrawn specifically for safety reasons out of 1 ,310 total approvals where 210, 16 % were discontinued for all various reasons, including marketing factors.

3:07:10It's that low. I thought it was higher than that. Yeah, but look at down below where it says antibiotics face higher rates at 41%. Whoa. Okay, so all told, I wonder what the pharmaceutical drugs that get pulled are. Antibiotics, 41%. It's nuts. Yeah, and 23 % of oncology. Indications withdrawn. Wow. It's like, what the fuck? I mean, we're just guessing on this shit? Well, it's not guessing. It's like one of the problems with some of these studies is they're getting information from the pharmaceutical drug companies themselves. Like I had this lawyer on that was explaining to me how he litigated a case against pharmaceutical drug companies.

3:07:49And that one of the issues that they found was that these guys would run 10 tests and they would find no efficacy. But so they would rig a test in a very biased way to show the smallest amount of statistical significance. And then they would say it's statistically significant. And they would push that. And their only motivation was profit. They weren't saying, this is going to cure cancer. This is going to stop blindness. No, it's like, we can make money on this. And there's even one of the cases with Vioxx where there was emails exchanged with the pharmaceutical drug companies talking about all the problems that it was going to cause.

3:08:25But we think we will do well with this, which is crazy. I remember we looked that one up before. It's like it's yeah. I mean, it's nuts how this this medicine stuff works, but it's like they're still like with the covid vaccine still things coming out. I saw last night on TV about in this in a small number of cases, it can cause heart some or whatever the fuck. But we've we've seen a number of these announcements, like all these. Finally, this negative stuff about the vaccine. Did it do any positive? Probably not. but all this fucking negative. And that was just coming out years later. And we were bombarded with propaganda that it was necessary to stay alive.

3:09:06Like there was one, I think it was the Atlantic that had one headline that said, if you're unvaccinated, it might be time to make your end of life will. And then the same magazine years later, COVID vaccines may cause heart damage. Same exact magazine. Fuck you. Because you guys only said that because you were being pressured by your advertisers or you were being pressured by culture or society. You didn't look at the history of pharmaceutical medication and how much they're full of shit. They've paid some of the biggest criminal fines in U.S. history because they fucking lied. And the same companies are still selling you shit.

3:09:48You think they came to Jesus? Do you think they're different now and they don't just try to make money? Yeah. And if you question that you're a conspiracy theorist and a kook and you're taking horse medication like it's fucking it's so infuriating how many people buy into stuff. Right. And how they don't even get in trouble for lying to everybody for so long for years. Just lies and propaganda face no recourse. Not not not financial not social. Nobody's responsible reputational. No recourse. That's disgusting. I'm still waiting for Fauci to be strung up. He can't be. He got a giant pardon by the auto pen.

3:10:29Well, but what's so frustrating, too, is that so they basically said, hey, you have to take this poison or you're going to lose your job. Yeah. Or you won't be able to do this or you won't be able to do that. So take this poison. But then something that we've shown works, stem cell, BPC, that's what they'll shit on. Shut it down. It's just like, what? They're just worried about losing control, and they're worried about losing profits, and they're worried about compounding pharmacies, making this stuff. And they want peptides. They want all this stuff, but they want to be able to market it only under their brand.

3:11:00They want to own it. They want to have patents for all this stuff. And that's where the real problem comes. A lot of these really effective things, they can't patent. Right. It's all tied to the money. I have a code for peptides at WasteWell. I wish I could remember it so we could use it. Let's probably get some. Is it C-A-M? It's probably dumb fuck. You don't know what your code is? No. Really? Should I call Brigham? Let's end this podcast. Well, I don't want to bother him. We'll figure it out. Figure it out, fuckers. Cam will put it on his Instagram. On my Instagram story. I won't put it on an actual post.

3:11:36It's not that important. Okay. Well, put it on whatever. Do whatever the fuck you want to do. I don't care. Well, okay. So here's what I wanted to end the podcast with. What's one thing you learned this season bow hunting? Oh. or wait is this my call to how we end it yeah you can do it you can do it you run the show what i learned this season um oh i always learn one thing every year how important leg conditioning is so fucking important yeah god it's what maybe the most especially elk hunting it is the most important thing leg conditioning is fucking everything if you can't get up those mountains and and be fit and and be able to do it over and over and over again over like five days of miles and miles and miles.

3:12:16Like, no matter what I did, I need to do more. That's what I learned that for sure. That's a big one. You can never be in too good a shape. Never be in too good a shape. Never have your legs conditioned enough and you can over practice archery. I learned that too because I started developing this low back problem that I've been going to this trigger point massage. I went today. Oh my God. Yeah, it helps. I get so scared every time I go into this guy's office. He fucking tortures me. It's horrible. Especially when he does the IT band with his fucking knuckles in his elbow. It's horrible, but it's super effective.

3:12:48I just, I got, essentially, I got tendinitis in my lower back. Overuse injury. Just overuse, because I'm pulling back an 80 pound bow a hundred times over and over and over again, days after days after days. And every time it would hurt, I would be an idiot and I would go, ah, walk through it. And you're obsessive. It got bad. Yeah. I'm a little obsessive. It got bad. But that's why you're great at things too. Yeah. There's a, it's a double-edged sword. But you got to learn, like you were talking about, not overdoing it in the hypoxic thing. You got to learn. And I don't learn always, but I try to.

3:13:20I learn those things. Yeah. Those are huge. So, okay, what are you going to do for your legs then? Continue not stopping with leg conditioning ever until September. Okay. Like there was a lot of times. One thing is Waste Welles helped me. I got a fucking weird left knee. but the latest round of stem cells that I had did real they did a real improvement like I really notice it and I'm protecting it I'm not doing anything stupid in the meantime you know like no jujitsu like no getting heel hooked nothing nothing that's going to aggravate it right and just build up my conditioning and maintain it over the year that's that's a big one yeah that's a good would you learn camines me no it's adam's turn oh you go last i think um i learned a lot this season but just like more about life than just in a bow hunting scenario but i think the biggest thing that i took away from it is health as in mental and physical and that you can always like step it up and you can always be better and i think like i just you know like family life whatever excuses I can come up with, you know, business and not having the time to put in the extra, but finding the extra time because of how valuable it is and what the payoff in that is, you know, being physically healthy makes it a lot easier to be mentally healthy.

3:14:48Yeah, because you went for a while where you really didn't work out much. I didn't. I just, I bow hunted a lot, you know, and I was on the tools a lot, like being in, you know, the building game, but it's not, that's different. It's a different sort of health, you know, whereas in actually targeting, you know, losing weight, eating clean, you know, cause it's not just about the gym. It's like everything that else else that goes with it. So I learned to eat a lot more cleaner. Um, I started doing the hypoxic wellness studio and I think a combination of those things and seeing the payoff in two weeks, you know, I'm not talking months.

3:15:24It was like in two weeks, I could see a massive difference when you lined everything up, eating healthy. That made the mountains a lot more easier and a lot more enjoyable. I'm not saying I did more of the mountains. I think I only covered the same sort of miles, but it was just a lot more enjoyable. And that example that I kept saying to you, like going from the bottom of the mountain to the top without having four or five breaks in between when you're like, and hurting, it was just a lot more enjoyable. I'd stop, you know, and it's just like, I wasn't even taking deep breaths. I was already scanning the mountains for a bull, you know, and I think it just become a lot more enjoyable and then getting the headspace from that too, whether it's from me feeling better, whether it's from better plasticity of the mind.

3:16:09I just, overall, I just felt a lot better, a lot more connected, a lot more grateful as well as in, because you feel good. So it's easier to think of things more and be more grateful. I like that. That's, well, what I took from that is you said climbing the mountain is more enjoyable. To me, that means you're going to make better decisions. Yes. You're going to be, when you're hunting, you know, because when we're fatigued, there's this famous saying, fatigue makes cowards of us all. But it also, we make poor decisions when we're fatigued. So you being at a higher level just physically allows you to hunt better is what I always think.

3:16:48Because we're not taking shortcuts. We're making better decisions. We're reading the animal better. where instead of like looking for a, cause we're gas, so we don't want to kick things. So we're looking at the ground more instead, our heads up and we're reading the situation better. So it's just, it, it, it results in just better hunting and you enjoy it more. But I love that. What I learned is that I think I, I enjoy the success of others. And this has been reinforced over the years, but this year specifically, I enjoy being part of the success of others and taking others like new hunters and just sharing our lifestyle with them and just what's important to me.

3:17:28And it gives me a chance to share. When you talk to somebody on the phone, you're not getting deep. But when you're on a hunt, you get that opportunity. And they're more, I don't know if they have to listen because they can't go anywhere or it's just they're more interested in listening. but it allows me to really like share why nature in the mountains and what I do is important. And it seems like it's real, it really resonates with people. And it's just, I, that has given me so much strength and, uh, and I don't know, I just, and purpose. It's just sharing our lifestyle with others. That's what I've learned that, that drives me.

3:18:09You've been like that for a long time too. Like that first Buffalo hunt that we went on back in australia and you killed a bull and it was like i was as happy for you as if i killed it and then when i killed my bull it might have been the last day like it was the same it was all like hugs and that was awesome and i could see it glowing in your face you know that you want you you relish in other people's success as well gentlemen this was awesome thank you always great to hang out with you guys thank you it's a pleasure brother love you too all right bye everybody

3:18:53We'll see you next time.