#2435 - Bradley Cooper

26:55Did you have fun doing it? Oh, yeah. I had a kind of good time. But I also missed comedy. I missed New York people. And I wanted to get out of there. I was like, I got to get back to New York. Fuck this place. As soon as it was over. But I was like, fuck, I got this lease. So I had a lease for a year. And then I got a development deal. So how long were you in L.A. at that time? Oh, I was only in L.A. for a few months. Wow. Yeah. So I moved out there to do the show. Right. I got a lease like almost immediately. And then I was out there for a few months. Show got canceled. And then I got a development deal to do something for NBC.

27:31And they were going to do my own sitcom. But as we were developing it, they said, hey, there's a show that we're doing. It's called News Radio. It's already been picked up. We already did the pilot, but we fired one person from the pilot, and we want you to read for this. And that's how I got on NewsRadio. That's how it happened. That was the only second show I ever auditioned for ever. Wow. So I had one show. That is a very unique. You had a very unique track. Dumb luck. That's nuts. Stumbled into it 100%. I can't take any credit for it. Dumb luck. Just my ability to keep it together in auditions and not crack with no acting experience at all.

28:08But it was just not it wasn't something that I aspired to so it didn't have the kind of pressure that it probably had for a lot of people It probably didn't have the same kind of elation too, right? Like you put I assume if it's not something you really wanted it was like it was fun But you weren't like this is this is like this feels right No, what it felt like is oh, I'm gonna get money. Yeah, get some money. Yeah, then something's wrong I was like this is good. I'm gonna get money and I don't have to worry about money That's how I thought about it, right? And then when I was doing it, I was like, wow, I'm so lucky.

28:38How did I stumble? I'm here with Phil Hartman. This is crazy. Yeah, it's crazy, dude. Dave Foley and Steven Root. It's crazy. Mora Tierney. This is nuts. Yeah. It was a crazy cast. And Sorkin wrote it, right? No, it was Paul Sims. Paul Sims, right. Yeah, who had just left Larry Sanders' show. Right. So he left Larry Sanders. Yeah, it was crazy luck. Just stupid, dumb luck. That's right. Sorkin did that other show with Jeff Daniels. Right. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. um so but but back in those days like everybody was working towards that and fortunately i already had that so my thing was just like continue to work on stand-up and just work on my stand-up and if this all goes away i'll just go back to being a comic and doing stand-up in la yes right so and so that was new that's yeah and that's where i encountered like the worst backstabbing i've ever seen in my life so you're coming from new york where you didn't feel that you didn't feel it as much.

29:32You felt like a lot of shit talking, but it was fun. Guys would make fun if you bombed. They were doing it to your face. It was a more ball-busting, silly environment in New York. No one thought they were going to get famous in New York. They were all just doing sets. But in LA, everybody had this idea to get a sitcom. And then in the 1990s, they started giving out development deals. That was the big thing you get like a two hundred thousand half a million dollar development deal And then all of a sudden you have all this money and you're living and so everybody was working towards that So became instead of like people working towards just being a stand-up It became stand-up was a means to an end and then all these other people they were in your way to get that goal Jesus and then your agent was telling you that's what you had to do and right because they wanted that money, too So it was all like programming people to go after the sitcom.

30:30So completely different culture in the standup community there. Exactly. But then that all went away. It all went away. Like the idea of working towards a sitcom is not, it's like working towards a career in ham radio. Like it fucking went away. Well, you say that Ari changed it. How did he do it? Because he brought the LA culture to New York. Ari moved from LA back to New York. and everybody that I talked to in New York is always like, you guys are doing it wrong. And people listen to him. Yeah, well because he was established and he was a really good comic and they were like, I think he's right.

31:03And they would come to LA, like a lot of guys like Andrew Schultz and a lot of these other guys, they would come to LA and they're like, bro, everybody's so fucking nice here and they're all just having a great time. Like why aren't we doing that? Why aren't we just having a great time? And so it shifted. It was the culture of the internet. The internet changed everything because there was no longer this one thing that 100 guys were trying to audition for. Now it was anybody could just put up something online. And then all your friends became assets. They all became, like, valuable to you instead of competitors.

31:38That's cool. Yeah. Do you go up in these cities ever now? I do. If I'm in L.A., I'll still do sets in L.A. I haven't been in a while. But, you know, most of the time I'm at my own club. Right. It makes it way— Also, I have teenage kids, and I want to be home. Did you do the cellar? Yeah, I did the cellar back in the day. But more I did the stand. I did catch when it was there. I always did danger fields. Danger fields was great because it was like a hole in the wall. There was hardly anybody there. Is that where he shot his special? Yes. Wow. Yeah. It was big in the 80s, and then something happened.

32:19And by the time I got there in the 90s, it was like fucking dead. One time I went there and I had a spot at like 830. And I don't remember what time the show started, but there was a few people on before me. And I got there and the people that were on before me were sitting at the bar. I go, what's going on? There's no crowd. I'm like, there's no crowd? There's nobody? And so then this couple walked up and they bought tickets for the comedy show. And this guy, Bobby, who was the doorman, like, step right up. He was a Scottish guy. Come on in. I have your seated. He seats them down. There's no one there, just them.

32:50They sit down. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Dangerfields, your first act. And we all did stand-up for two fucking people. Wow. Yeah. The whole night was two people. And they had a great time. I'm sure. But it was weird. It's like when you're doing stand-up for just two people. You're only looking at two people. But you also realize how much of your act is bullshit. How much of your act is like fucking dance moves. It's just nonsense. like English on the cue ball. It's like you're doing a lot of silly things that like don't even, and you're not connecting with real humans. Right. And when there's two people there, it like cuts the fat out of all of your shit.

33:30And you recognize where the flaws in your writing are and the flaws in your delivery. But Dangerfields was, it was a wild little place. It was like a classic comedy club that didn't have any – no industry went there. No agents. No managers went there. Always. Yeah. It was just like a bunch of weird degenerates and it was fun. Wow. That was a fun place. So I did that club a lot. But I did the road a lot. Yeah. Because that was how I could make money and I could headline. I could do an hour. Because if you're in the city, you're doing 15-minute sets or 10-minute sets. That's great. But it's hard to piece together an hour at a 10-minute set because you kind of want to let the material breathe and put it all together.

34:15Yeah, of course. Compose it into one big thing. And you really can work on that a lot more if you're actually headlining. Do you watch a lot of specials, comedy specials nowadays? I don't. I watch a lot of comics, like when I see them at the club. Live, right, but not like – No, I probably should. I probably should watch more of them. But really comedy is it's like an artistic form of hypnosis. And the real way to see comedy is to be there live. Right. And you know when the person's locked in and you know when they're not. You feel it. They got you. Like they're thinking for you. Yeah. If I'm watching a tell and he's at like the mothership and he's killing, like we're all like this.

34:56We're like locked into his brain and we're letting him like take us on a ride. Yeah, of course. It's like a kind of a form of hypnosis. And I really think that a stand-up special, as good as they are, you're maybe getting 60 to 70 percent of the experience of actually being there. That's why I enjoy watching them to see how different people make them. Because there's all different types. Yeah. You know, some are heavily edited, which always brings me out. If there's a way to keep it so you feel like you're in the room. Right. You know, I remember it was Mr. Tambourine Man or the Chris Rock special where when he changed the tone of it and he started talking about Djerganov to porn and how he became addicted to porn.

35:32and it was that great filmmaker who's a comedian who does music. He did that thing during COVID when he was in his house. Bo Burnham. Bo Burnham. I think he directed it. Oh, really? And the camera just keeps going on, keeps going on. By the time you don't even realize it because you're hypnotized, you're right here on Chris Rock. And I think probably subconsciously, just thinking about it now, that's probably one of the things, because that's kind of the frame I used the whole time on Alex, on Will. Yeah. But I remember watching it going like, when the fuck did this become a close-up you know but that's what that's what it was happening so there was a synergy between the camera and what he was doing in the place at least made me feel like cinematically i was there and this is what he was doing hypnotizing me right and then the opposite of that was the special that chris rock did where he changed clothes so he was doing a special where he filmed part of it in one place and another part of it in another place and he spliced the two of them together with different outfits so you would have him begin a bit with one outfit on and then end a bit with a different outfit on and you're like what yeah whose idea was this yeah because the minute you cut and edit in any way you know even podcasts audio wise that's the thing i've learned you know some people you know they edit the audio of a podcast and you're like that's not someone didn't take a breath before they answered oh like cutting out yes Yeah, it's a whole other rhythm, right?

36:56Well, that's the YouTube thing right the YouTube for a long time was doing this things Where they would cut out all the pauses in between people talking thing and it became like a style of editing, right? Where it's like shocking but my ears like I it's impossible for me to get in right? It's just impossible. What's it's the short attention span concept, right? You're just saying people are so fucking stupid. You can't give many breaks. You can't give many breath You got to keep talking, keep talking, keep talking. And then, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And it's like, it's exhausting.

37:25After a while, it's just like this wash. And yeah. Yeah. They're just trying to keep you engaged as much as possible by editing instead of by having actually interesting content. Compelling content. Yeah. Yeah. But it's an interesting exercise. Yeah. I enjoy watching. Like, I think Josh Safdie did Sandler's one. And he did all this backstage and he walked up and then he was in many locations, but he was playing music a lot. But yeah, I just like watching everybody's different, you know, sort of exploration of different stand-up shows because it's such a huge viable market. So people, you know, it's fun to watch how they do it.

37:59I think that's probably why because I watched so many of them I wanted to do it in a way in a movie. Have you done stand-up at all? Never, never did. Never? No. Have you thought about it? No. When you were doing the film, did you think about doing it? No, no. No? Yeah, and I don't know why, Joe. Yeah. But no, I just it's not like one of those things that I feel compelled to do. But would it be fun? Would I be scared? All those things. Will I try and open mic one night? Yeah, I probably should. But it's not I didn't feel compelled to do it. No. The problem would be if you did it and it went OK, but you're like, I think I could do better.

38:37And then and then you're gone. You know me. I know everybody. It's kind of the same thing with all of us. Yeah, of course, dude. There's always a part of you like, I think I can do better. And the next thing you know, like, I got to leave. I got to go do a set. What the fuck are you doing? Dad, I haven't eaten dinner. No, no, no, no. It's like all artistic pursuits. They can become an obsession and they become an addiction and they become a part of you. And then it's like your brain naturally goes towards that pathway of thinking about that thing all day. Yeah, which I love. Oh, it's great if it's a fun thing.

39:14I remember being 11 and watching The Elephant Man and knowing at that moment. You okay? Yeah, I'm sweating. Knowing at that moment that, like, oh, this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. When you saw The Elephant Man? Yeah. Really? Yeah, I remember. How was it that movie? I mean, I don't know. I mean, I've thought about it a lot, obviously. David Lynch directed it. I remember this scene, Anthony Hopkins. I loved film. So I always loved film. my dad loved film but it wasn't like a conscious thing where i was like this is it and i remember you know in my living room it's on the tv i saw all the movies on the tv you know i never saw apocalypse now in a movie theater godfather or anything loneliness as long as it's runner you know none none of it it was all on the television and um but i was watching the elephant man it was on hbo it came through philadelphia where i live comcast and they would show like it all the time and it was anthony hopkins coming in and he's seeing uh joseph merrick the elephant man for the first time and the way david lynn shot it you only see a shadow and then hopkins starts crying and i don't know i was just like i was there in that cellar with him and i was like i forgot i was in the living room and then the whole movie was like that and i came out i was like i just want i want that so was that like the first seed that was planted yeah that was it it was the first and only it was i was 11 it was like it was like bam it was like a shot there's this scene right here.

40:38Yeah, it's right. It's this. This is it. Oh, look how young Anthony Hopkins looks.

40:48Yeah, he was incredible. Stand up. Stand up!

40:58Turn around. Turn around! Turn around!

41:29Wow. Wow. That was it.

41:39what is it like watching that now thinking that that planted a seed that changed your whole life well first I thought wasn't it a shadow but that was before and then I'm like oh yeah and then yeah then I was just in it then all of a sudden I was there then I was like is Joe in it does he know what I'm talking about and then as my brain started going the movie kept bringing me in it and then by the end by that push in I was like I'm just watching this guy look at this thing for the first time and then fuck look at this beast Anthony Hopkins I wonder what he was looking at when he was crying. I know.

42:07You know, because you pull that out of your eyeballs. Oh, dude. And I wrote, so I went to grad school, moved to New York, wrote him a letter because our dean said somehow he knew him or he had, the school I went to that I only got into because they let anybody in.

42:23They did that show inside the actor's studio. Do you remember that on TV on Broadway? Yeah, I remember that show. And so our thesis was the show. there was like our not like our there was a class that but it was a class like technically a class and so all these incredible people would come on and anthony hopkins was there and and i was there for that and then i wrote him a letter just telling him and i asked uh james lipton that was his name the dean yeah and uh and then you know and then never you know i never heard from him ever and then um you know and now i know him dude do you know how weird it's crazy it's so weird right i never get over that me neither meeting ever ever and there's some guys i don't know if you feel this way too but like there's some guys like then they become your friends but still i still feel a little bit of like extra energy when i'm around them like it'll never go away right yeah for sure it's crazy for me one of the big ones was tarantino like oh hanging out with tarantino that would be nuts it's so odd going to dinner with him yeah it's crazy hanging out with him here him coming to the club he come hang out hang out in the green room it's nuts it's just weird it's like that's quentin tarantino yeah that's great yeah and it never goes away as close as you get and as even when your brain's off right because that's always the libnus is my brain off when i'm with the person right that's like when like okay right and even like clint eastwood who i did american sniper with i mean it was always clint eastwood and i got to a point where my brain was off you know but still i'm just like what if my dad was alive if my dad was alive he would flip the fuck out what was it like doing that scene with the fake baby oh was that weird it's so funny i was just talking about that two days ago dude and you know i've come full circle yeah i actually think it's dope really i think it's fucking why because it's so just like wow look at these people fully invested and it's a doll it's like a scene where you're kind of like moving the hand a little bit with your finger I could tell you the whole thing dude so we had three sets of twins and Clint likes to shoot fast which I loved and love and they were crying and they weren't ready and he was like you know what let's just let's put the doll in and I was like okay and I was like alright and I had the doll and I remember and I made a joke on set And I was like, I just saved you$35 ,000 because I moved his hand with my thumb.

44:54You know, like I saved visual effects like$50 ,000. Like made a joke about it. And then we got to Post and we were in Vancouver doing the meeting. But, you know, everybody defers to the boss. I still remember being in a room and I'm like at theater. We're watching and they're like, okay, Clint, so we did this. And, you know, the tank has dirt on it. And, you know, whatever visual effects they had done. We get to the baby. And I'm like, okay, Clint, this is the scene. And it ends. And I'm literally behind Clint. I just see the back of his head. And I'm waiting for everybody to raise their hand.

45:28Like, we got to spend more money to make the kid real. And I think the kid had like two fingers, too. Like, they weren't even, it was like an AA. Yeah, that's it. That's me. I'm doing that. That's it.

45:41But, dude, it's kind of dope. I love it now. I've come full circle. So, and I raised my hand and I was like, Clint, I just think that it's clear, you know, that that's not a baby. And what would, do we, can we at least just find out what the cost would be? And no one said anything. And then I remember he was like, I think we move on. Wow. And that was it, dude. And that was it. And I was like, okay, okay. And I remember talking to the other producer. I was like, this is going to come back. I was like, bro, this is going to come back to haunt us. And I remember he said, no, Bradley, you're too close to the movie.

46:17I was like, I don't think so, dude. No, everybody's like, he's moving his thumb. This is crazy. That's a rubber baby. Crazy, dude. There's another one, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's crazy. What is it like doing a film like that where you're playing an actual human being? Is that different than a written character that has no physical body that you can kind of become who you think the words represent? Yeah. But when you're playing a guy like Chris Kyle, you're playing a human. Yeah. And you're trying to figure out a way to make it as realistic as possible, but you're acting. What is that like? I mean, the thing that just popped in my head is the pressure.

47:01It's like night and day. Because there are people that you have to serve. Especially with Chris Kyle. we started making that movie he was alive he got killed while we were he was still negotiating with warner brother i know i think he did we just closed his deal and then he was murdered on february 2nd i believe and uh and it was just like whoa and um and then but in fact we were like now we really got to make this movie and um and then clint and i flew to midlothian texas and met with his family and his widow and his parents and then the kids. And I had played, I did the Alpha Man. I did it as a play in my thesis in grad school.

47:47And then I did it at Williamstown. And then I actually did it in New York and London. So, and that, and even though it's a long time ago, that was the first time I felt that responsibility because I actually loved that guy, Joseph Merrick. And I did, and I felt that responsibility to him. So I had done something like that before, but this was the first, this was the next time. It was massive, Joe, but I think Like that, it's like you're always looking for what's the fuel that's going to allow me to work as hard as I can. And the fuel when you're playing a real person is like, there's like four extra canisters or like vats of firepower for you to work hard.

48:23Because you just, you know, you're looking across the eyes of somebody and say, I'm going to serve your son or your husband or your father. It's a major responsibility. Maybe even more major because now he's deceased. Yeah. It was mind-blowing, and it terrified me. And also, I'm 185 pounds at that point from northeast Philadelphia. This guy's from Midlothian, Texas, Sealed Team 3. And the way Clint works, the way we did work, Kevin Lace, who was a Sealed Team 3 with Chris, was in the movie, played Dauber. Jacob Schick, who was one tribe, which is what I'm wearing, he was a Marine. Did you ever see American Sniper?

49:03Yes. Yeah, there's that scene where he goes to the hospital and there's all the guys that have been wounded. Jacob Schick is one of them. You know, so there's real guys. It's all real. So I step in. You know, I've got to, I'm going to die unless I believe I'm Chris. Right. So I have to do whatever I can so that I believe I'm Chris. If I believe I'm Chris, then I have a shot at everybody else potentially going along with this illusion. I just have to I have to be absolutely fearless when I walked on set so I just it just made me work so hard that I'd never worked hard that if it's a created character you know it's different but it comes with a different set of challenges you know it just depends on what it is but I do know and then with Leonard Bernstein he did the same thing huge responsibility like massive that I felt to his kids to people that loved him but mainly his kids all three his son has passed But his three kids are like, okay.

50:03You know, they're like handing you, you know, it's like if someone went to your daughter in 12 years and said, here's this movie about your father. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. You know. Yeah. And this guy's sitting across and be like, okay, I'm going to play your father. That's just a whole other thing. Because the truth is, like, if it's good, it's going to last a long time. And it's going to be a thing that marks their journey. Right. So I'm a part of whatever little part of Chris's journey. So you give somebody the faith that whoever has the power to give to that artist is just, you know.

50:38So it just made me work. You know, like you just don't stop working until you get to the point where you believe you're him. Or you believe that he's a part of you. Something's working. Did you meet Chris Kyle? Never. Just talked to him on the phone once. Oh, wow. Yeah. So what did you, like, what did you train? Oh, yeah. What did you do to try to, like? Yeah. Well, it's interesting, right? It's like, well, I couldn't do anything that would ever achieve what he achieved. But it's like, what can I do to look like a master? Right. So there's three weapons, the 338 Lapua, the 50 cal, the rifle. It's like, what can I do?

51:14How much time do I have? I think I had like six months. Also, luckily, we're the same shoe size, same age. He has a hole in his ear. I do. You find things that like, you know, same height. I was like, oh, this is great. Right. And then I just like, but he's 230 pounds. So the first thing was 6 ,000 calories a day, found a trainer. 6 ,000? Yeah, 6 ,000 calories a day. How did you force 6 ,000? First I did it with real food, and that was a big mistake. Because I couldn't get up. I remember the first week I did it, had an incredible chef, and then I couldn't get up. Like I couldn't move my stomach.

51:50So then I think we split like half of it into protein shakes. But it was still 6 ,000 calories. So you couldn't get up. Like, what do you mean? My stomach wasn't able to process that much food. Yeah, whatever happened. Was it getting blocked? Getting blocked. Like, major pain. Like, I was giving birth or something, what I would imagine. So then we changed it, and it would be like, huge meal, shake. Huge meal, shake. Worked out twice a day. I had three rest days, no cardio. It was all about strength training. And it was all focused around deadlifting. Oh, okay. And it was this guy, Jason Walsh, who I worked with.

52:25And I did that, yeah, so it would be like Monday, 5.30 a.m., and then a 4.30 p.m., or like 3.30, Monday, Tuesday, rest Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, rest Saturday, Sunday, and did that. And I got up to 238 pounds, and a lot of it was like, because I was thinking about him, his neck. So I would do all the neck stuff, and it was his shoulders. Like I just wanted so you could shoot over, and it's like, you know, which we did all the time in the movie, where the guy's just, you know, Chris. Yeah. NFL playoffs, let's go. DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NFL, makes every moment feel bigger.

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54:19Limited time offer. How much weight did you gain? I went from 185 to 238. Whoa. And all naturally because cancer's in my family. I've had skin cancer and I'm terrified of anything. So I was like not going to do that. You did creatine or anything? I took creatine, yeah, which by the way, I just started again like three months ago. Oh, it's amazing. Dude. I'm on this push-up thread with a bunch of dads at my school and we do 100 push-ups a day. And if we don't, you have to pay$10 into a pool. And then when we get to 800, we go to Chinatown and I'll have a meal with the money. And then I started taking creatine like two and a half months ago.

54:56And we just upped it to 150. I was like, this is because I could only do and we'd like YouTube the perfect push up, which I didn't know, which is like a whole other world. And then now it's I mean, creatine is incredible. It's incredible for your brain. I know. I've heard you say that. Like, I can't tell that because I also take Zins all the time. So it's like, I don't know what's doing it. Yeah, me too. I did the same thing. But, yeah, where was I on the Chris thing? You were talking about gaining weight and how you did it. Oh, yeah. So then I worked with this. You got up to 238. And I worked with the guy who, so I was doing that in conjunction with learning about sniping and working with Kevin Lace, this guy Dauber.

55:34We would go up to the Disney ranch and work with like 600-yard head targets, prone, that I would just do all the time. And then once we cast the rest of the team, we did all this stuff. But really, Kevin Lace, this guy Dauber, was the guy because he was there. And he was there through the whole shooting just so everything would be real. And we just drilled it. We became a group. Like, you know, we did the work. But it wasn't so much about, like, I was like, I have this amount of time. Doing, like, SEAL boot camp will do nothing for me. Like, that'll just give me the brain of, like, how hard this is and will I be broken.

56:03I've done this. Not that I couldn't have. Maybe I would have been broken. But I felt like I do understand that. Like, I've been through certain things where, like, I understand what it's like to push myself to be on my breaking point. And what that looks like and feels like. What I don't know is when I'm looking at a target and I have to factor in the curve of the earth. That's the stuff I want to learn. So that's where I focused was those three weapons, live rounds, gaining the weight. So I felt like I was... Here we go. We're back. That's like all of a sudden you're like, oh, you didn't take the drug?

56:43You know what I'm saying? Yeah. You know, I'm not on it. And then so it was those two things in conjunction. The curve of the earth is nuts. You have to think about that. It's crazy. Long distance shots. And then the fact that these guys stayed up 24 hours and would pee in there, you know, never get up to pee. Just pee right there, right in the room. You know, I mean, I said no. And then, by the way, it's a human being. I mean, it's just. Yeah. Forget it. And then just working with this guy, Tim Monick, on, like, his voice. To me, the voice is everything. It's all about the voice. and like where he's from.

57:15And Chris was interesting because his accent started to change, you know, because once he got out and then he did a couple of shows, you know, he wrote that book, which is how I came across and then gave it to Clint. So he had an interesting accent that kind of changed a little bit. But, yeah, just the voice, just hitting the voice. I would work this guy five days a week, you know, and I had tons of stuff. I had so much information that Taya, Kyle, had been so generous to give me, So many home videos, you know, correspondence. You know, I used to work out to his, which I just did the other day.

57:51It's so funny we're talking about this. I literally just did it two days ago. Worked out to his playlist. I had both of his workout playlists. Oh, wow. And I blew up two huge posters. And one was him just like this and one with his gun. And I would do that and look at him every morning. It was just like this beautiful ritual that I felt like I was with him every day. How long did you take to prepare? I'd have to look back. I think I did it fast, but I think we had about six months or five months. But like, you know, full on, that's it, nothing else. I didn't have a kid back then. It was like, that was it.

58:21Yeah. Yeah. There's something very unique about someone doing a film about an actual person. Yeah. Like a great actor doing, like De Niro when he played Jake LaMotta in Raging Bull. Of course. Like that was one of the first, I mean, he became a different person. Yeah. Yeah, you have to. Yeah. You have to if there's like a merging of you and that whatever that idea or the soul whatever of the person it sounds so hokey You know I get it, but if you ask me what my memory is of of making a sniper Like memory like on in scenes It's not that like I was acting it's just that's not my memory what is the memory of like okay now we're gonna do this and it's like me as him doing it wow you know that's that's that a mind fuck when you stop when like the movie well the good thing is you do a clint who takes the piss out of fucking everything oh does he so yeah so we would go to dinner at night and uh and i learned from christian bale in american hustle like he just stayed in because i didn't understand this stay in the character all the time you know you hear these stories but you don't know what the real is like how does that work you see a cell phone do you like lose your mind like how do you what is it how do you do it and it's like oh i overthought it bale would just stay he was played this character that's from new york in in american hustle and i'd go in there the first day i met him he was his accent and the rest of the movie even like on weekends it was it was him christian and i could we would talk about stuff and this kid but he would just speak in that voice and i was like oh it's that simple like it's not some big thing like once you get the voice that is weird you know but i took it i mean and it's wonderful because then you feel like you're not acting and you're in the voice you're and i do it all like So I would be in that voice of Chris for the whole movie, and then we would go to a restaurant when we were up in Lancaster shooting or something.

1:00:11And Clint would then make fun of me in my accent as Chris and order a steak. And it was just – it was great. He's fucking sabotaging your performance. He's making you self-conscious. That's crazy. It was awesome. That's crazy. I always wondered what it's like to be around someone who's like method. But I don't know. Method is also a term that – What does it mean? Well, the method, it started in Russia, right? And then, you know, that book on acting that I should know, you know, what's his name? He came and then the group theater started and it was like, you know, and all these people then disbanded and there's Harry Meisner and there's, yeah, Stanislavski, exactly.

1:00:53And there was this other guy, Vok Tangoff, that also talked about every rehearsal. It's very interesting. And I read all this in grad school. And then the group theater came in. And then Ilya Kazan was a huge part of it becoming popular because you had this guy that was sweeping floors at the actor's studio and then started directing plays. And then all of a sudden he's a huge movie director. And he's putting Marlon Brando, who's part of the actor's studio, starring in his movies. And so it all just sort of erupted. But then it branched out. and so there's people that are dogmatic about it about it's only using your you know you're substituting so if i'm doing a scene with you like you aren't you you're my brother you know right but but but it's evolved and it's like what works for you to me it's like you use your your own experience plus your imagination you know but that's that's the sort that's the you know sort of a very layman's 50 second uh you know telling of what the origin of the method is but i went to the actor studio which is based in the method that's where i went to grad school um is it and it's very valuable because i didn't know shit before that i mean i did a couple of plays at georgetown i didn't know any i mean i just loved acting but i didn't do anything about i was terrified as a kid like we did this thing in high school where we had to as seniors we would put on our show where we would make fun of our teachers and i like i could do my latin teacher mr burke i was like and i actually sang in it we sang and i I was like, but I was terrified, Joe, for the whole year, sleepless nights for a year leading up to it.

1:02:22That's how scared I was in public. I remember doing like a fifth grade presentation with the poster boards about Locke and Hobbes and the poster shaking so hard because I was so nervous. I was like, how am I going to, what's this fear thing? Isn't that weird? I know. But then in college I did a couple of plays, but I still didn't know what I was doing, but I loved it. And I was like little stuff. I was like Azalon, the server in Dangerous Liaisons. But I still remember like I closed the door in a rhythm rhythmic way and people laughed and I remember I was like, oh Oh, this feels good And then and then so I applied to grad school there and then all of a sudden it was like I got a huge Foundation of like what I could do, you know that your insecurities are actually your attributes your fears or stuff that you know All this thing that you've you're a sensitive kid.

1:03:07This is all good stuff and I never felt that way before about any of that. And I had this teacher, Elizabeth Kemp, who was incredible, who then passed away in my house years later. She got sick. Yeah, it's crazy. Passed away in your house? Yeah, in Venice, California. She was sick, so we put her hospice there. But she was incredible. And she did this basic technique class, and it was the first time ever. Because I didn't grow up therapy, and none of that was even in the vicinity of talking about your feelings. you know my I loved my dad but I grew up in you know the 80s in Northeast Philadelphia with an Irish Italian upbringing that wasn't part of the deal and and then all of a sudden in grad school with other guys and women and we're like laying down and she wants us to go through an experience of loss and betrayal when we were children it's like what the fuck and actually I could take all that stuff I've been ashamed of and I could use it and bring it into art I and it really clicked with me in a huge way.

1:04:05And I use it even to this day. All the movies I do, I always get the actors together and do like a workshop for a week that's based on dreams that she also taught me, and I just find it invaluable. Any way you can just, how can I just get to a place where we're just talking to each other and I don't, you know, and then all this stuff I feel it's okay. Right, right. Yeah. When you're doing a guy like Chris, it must also be kind of easier to keep the accent than to try to reestablish it right before every scene. You just said it. It's a logical thing. Yeah. That's it. It's a logical thing. The idea of me talking with an accent or even thinking that it's an accent, because you don't think about it anymore.

1:04:43The whole point is I'm not doing an act. If I'm doing a scene with you and I'm thinking about how I'm talking, it's over. It's a wrap. It's not real. Right. But if I'm just talking to you and it happens to be the voice that I've been working on for however long time, then we're in it. We got a shot. Yeah. And if I'm stopping it, there's no way I'm not thinking about. So, yes, Joe, that is the reason. You know, it's a really underappreciated talent is voice actors who do audio books. I was watching a video of this guy because I never knew how they did it. And I kind of assumed that whenever they had to change accents, they probably had a pause where they were.

1:05:25But there's a video of a guy doing the voiceover for Lord of the Rings, the Lord of the Rings audiobook, and he goes into Smeagol, he goes into the Gollum character while he's doing narration. There's no break. He just smoothly transitions into Smeagol. It's great. It's fucking incredible. You know, it's nuts. It is absolutely masterful and completely underappreciated. Yeah, I agree with you. Because if you watch this guy do it, I don't know the gentleman's name, who's the voiceover actor but i love audiobooks this that guy listen to this guy oh it's andy circus was holding a debate with some other thought that used the same voice but made it squeak and hiss a pale light and a green light alternated in his eyes as he spoke

1:06:18it's me you're promised said the first thought yes yes my precious came the answer amazing fucking amazing like that what a master I love it. And you're talking about a master actor. Yes. Yeah, you know, because he's been in a lot of movies. He's directed. He directed that great movie that was like Jungle Book, a version of Jungle Book that Christian Bale actually played the Panther, I believe. He's incredible. And I got to meet him. He's like, this guy's like a one-off generational talent. Yeah, he's insane. You have to be to be that good at voiceover acting. Yeah, and he's just a great actor.

1:07:05Yeah, you have to be. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And my mother watches this. She'll kill me that I'm saying. My mother watches. First of all, she loves Turkish soap operas. So she watches everything. Turkish soap operas? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Why them specifically? I don't know. She just graduated from Hallmark into Turkish soap operas. The Hallmark channel. And then she's evolved even further. She just watches a screen where there's two people, AI images, and it's just a person telling a story. and I often I'll come down making breakfast because when she stays with me in New York she has the room down there and I'll be like making my daughter breakfast and I could hear it or I'll go to the bathroom which is right next to her and I was like wow these guys these voices I mean the guy's carrying it all it's just an image and she'll watch it for hours and I'm like what's going to happen is he going to make that is the firm going to hire him is she going to did she see the note like it's amazing I was like yeah it's really an art form Turkish yeah I remember the first time I came down I was like oh no what happened because I'm just hearing, I'm like, what happened?

1:08:08And I walk in and I'm like, mom, what are you watching? She's like, oh no, this guy's the best actor in the world. This guy. And so she just reads the subtitles. She did it for like, she's watched, it's called,

1:08:23if you look up, he's like, what's it called? Circle? Is it dove? Bird? Bird something? How could I forget it? Oh, baby. Is that it? Early bird. Early bird? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Explain this. So it's a soap opera. There's like 360 episodes. She's watched them all like five, four times. And she'll come in. She'll do a marathon session, come in to make some food. She's like, this guy, just the way he moves. This guy's the best actor. That's him. That's him. Yeah. That's him. Is it speaking in Turkish? Oh, yeah. Let me hear some of this. This looks like... Yeah, that's it. Yeah, there he is.

1:09:19Yeah, there he is. And so she likes this and she does the voiceover? She reads the... No, so that was the middle stage. Now she's graduated to... It's different now where she just watches two AI images and it's a story. But she did this for a good like eight years. All through COVID. Why was she into this? I don't know. She must have come across it one day somewhere and then that was it. She just got hooked? Oh, I mean, hooked isn't even the word. Yeah. By the way, it's pretty good. Is it? Yeah, yeah. You watch it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's great. And the woman in it is great too. Yeah. Do you consume a lot of films?

1:09:58Do you watch a lot of acting? I watch a lot of everything. Yeah? I love television films. And then, you know, like eight months ago, I know I'm late to the game, came across podcasts. Only eight months ago? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, yeah. That's interesting. Isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. What made you get into that?

1:10:20I can't remember, but it was your podcast, and I'm trying to think what it was. And then it was like, oh, and then I came. And then, you know, once you watch something on your phone, it like suggests other things. And then you had two guys on that I thought were really interesting. And then they do a trigonometry. Yeah, trigonometry. And I find that very fascinating. Oh, they're great. Yeah, great. And so that's how it just started. So now it's like a huge part of like I have this whole little thing. Like often I'll go to bed and my daughter's listening to your voice. But I do put on headphones sometimes because I love like just at the end of the day listening or watching.

1:10:53I'll put it on the side table. Yeah, podcasts are incredible. It's very soothing, very soothing. That's interesting. I hardly ever listen to them anymore. I used to listen to them all the time. But I love TV. I love it. Yeah, I take in a lot of content. Have you watched The Beast in Me on Netflix? I did. The Claire Danes? Oh, dude. Holy shit, dude. Dude. And that guy, Kerry Russell's husband, Matthew Rhys, dude. The bad guy? Yeah. How fucking good is that guy? So I did a movie with him years ago called Burnt About a Chef. and we had never met and there's a scene where my character he was trying to get sober and he's he went off the wagon and he goes into this guy their old nemesis they were nemesis with each other his restaurant after hours and um it was like a pretty dark scene that we never met me and this guy this actor right before we shot and i come in and then i don't know what was i was pretty it was i was pretty locked in and there's one scene which wasn't really scripted And I took, you know, those sous vide bags and I put it over my head to try to because he's trying to kill himself.

1:11:59Which, by the way, I was like, oh, this could work. If I don't get help. Those things are strong and tight. And then we had this experience, Joe, where then he was ripping it off me, trying for me not to kill myself. And I don't know him that well. But we had that's the thing about, like, making art together. Like we had that. It'll never every time I see him, I've seen him maybe six times at like certain things or something. I always feel like we're bonded forever just based on this one experience that we had. And he's an incredible actor. He's just and the end of that show, him in the end. Oh, God.

1:12:36And Claire Danes is like off the chart. Did you see that show she did with Jesse Eisenberg? What's that? There's another series she did. Homeland? No, no, no. No, it was like Fleischman, something with Fleischman. Fleischman is in trouble? Yeah, Fleischman. No. Yeah, she's incredible in that, too. There's a scene where she's basically having a mental breakdown, and you're watching, and you're like, this can't be acting. Fleischman is in trouble? Yeah. It's on FX? I never even heard of this. Yeah. It's really good? Yeah, I enjoyed it, and I enjoyed her at the end. There's one scene that really rocked me, where I just fully—I mean, I just saw this movie Hamnet.

1:13:15I don't know if you guys saw that or not. No. that's what i love about movie so jesse buckley in this movie it's basically playing like the most difficult role ever the loss and all that stuff and i fully joe full i'm watching and sitting there fully believing that this person is going through this do you know what i mean yeah like when you do that when i believe that you're actually going through it i mean that's it that's and like that her performance in that movie is so she's so good Are you talking about Claire Danes or Jesse Buckley now? No, Claire Danes. Claire Danes and Jesse Buckley. Yeah, they're both amazing.

1:13:51But Claire Danes is so good in The Beast and Me. There's moments where her fucking lips are trembling. No, it's nuts, dude. She's touched. Her eyes are darting back. She's on another level. Yeah, right. Touched. She's touched. Yes. No question. Yeah. No question. Yeah. She locks in in this very crazy way. She was great in fucking Homeland, too. Yeah. I never saw Homeland. Oh, it's great. It's really good. she just locks in she locks in in this very strange way where you fucking 100 % believe her yeah they believe it behind the eyes the greatest yeah I mean that's what that's the heroin for me in this industry it's like yeah when you're around you're creating this thing and it's just and all of a sudden it's like whoa yeah yeah holy shit it's happening but it's like I had this conversation with Ethan Hawke I was because I was asking him about but I felt like that with will just real quick you know that vampire scene that's not because I was I was operating it, right?

1:14:42I don't know how you felt watching it. The scene when he was on stage. At the very end. Yes, yes, yes. I was like, I fully believed it. Yes. And those people, and then when I went to the audience, and they're just like, because they didn't know what the fuck's going on. Right, right. Like, that was one of those moments I had on this movie where I was like, oh, my man is locked the fuck in. Oh, 100%. Yeah, 100%. It was very uncomfortable for me. You felt that. Yes. Oh, good. Definitely. I have this conversation with Ethan Hawke about that. I go, what is happening when I believe someone? Like, I was talking about the scene in that movie with him and Julia Roberts about the end of the world.

1:15:19Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. There's a scene with him and Kevin Bacon. Yeah, when they go to the house. And also, there's three guys in that scene. Oh, my God. He's amazing. Yeah, from Moonlight. He's been in tons of stuff. Green Book. I know him. Yeah, Jamie will pull it up. I can't I'll fuck his name up if I pronounce it what is it that's it yes I believe it I know that's Kevin Bacon I know that's Ethan right I believe he's gonna shoot him yeah no question believe it yeah I go what is that like what is going on I go cuz is it it's almost like a form of hypnosis And he's like, yes. Yeah, that's it.

1:16:05You have to actually be there. You have to actually be there. Like, yeah, you're saying the lines you're supposed to say. But what's happening is like you really are there. You really believe it. And if you don't believe it, the audience doesn't believe it. And we've all been there before. Like one time I ate an edible and I went to go see one of those Marvel movies. And I was really high. And while I was watching the movie, I was like, this guy's acting. You know, it just made you really sensitive and tuned in. I get angry because I'm like, I want to go on the ride. I'm like the best watcher because when that thing starts, I want to go on the ride.

1:16:46I want to go on the ride. Yes. Like him and Denzel in Training Day. Yeah. There's a few scenes where you're like, okay, this is really happening. Especially in the car. Yes. That's the one. Oh, yeah. This is really happening. Like, this is real. Yeah. Ethan Hawke's so good in that movie. Yeah. He's great. Yeah, he's great in everything. But he's sick in that movie. But he's also, when you talk to him, you realize, okay, this is an actual artist. Yeah, he's a unique dude. Yeah. Yeah. He's not a guy who's, like, trying to be a movie star. No, no, no. He's an artist that does movies. Yeah, but I don't know how many people, I don't know.

1:17:21It's like how many comedians who just want to be famous are going to love it. I don't even know how you could do it. You have to love it. Right. It's just too hard. That's not enough of a fuel. It's not that what that's not a few won't take you far. It's just not a fuel to keep doing it right Because if you don't love it, I think you would find it monotonous and maybe boring and tedious and Inconsequential you're going on a road trip with an eighth of a tank of gas You're not gonna make it you're not gonna make it stomping on the gas and pull out of the parking lot But it's not that yeah, it's a long Drive and my experience in the 26 years I've been in this is like most of the people if not all that I've worked with they love it yes they love it they have to otherwise yeah if you want to be great at something you have to love it yeah i can't i can't imagine yeah because it's not even that you want yes you want to be great at it but you just love doing it right that's it right and the love is how it becomes great and then the fear is when you get famous or people get popular early that can be confusing because you start to have like um i have to maintain a certain you start getting careful like I was thinking about when you said like what is that thing when it just it's hypnosis the key to that is willing to fail that's what I learned as an actor is like oh yeah just don't take it too seriously here we go we're rolling the camera we can't let's just here let's see what happens I'm gonna go out on a limb maybe it won't work but like yeah be willing to like completely fail yeah and the minute you do that it's like oh and all of a sudden there's this reservoir of space in your head and your soul to actually create even more of an imaginary circumstances now if you haven't done your work you're fucked anyway but like but once you're there it's like once you're like oh yeah everybody we could just fail let's just let's just fail how do you does that make sense it 100 makes sense it makes sense because the only way you're going to really find out what it is is to like try it all kinds of ways yeah that we i was just having the conversation you know brian cowan our mutual friend uh he he texted me last night he's like i got a new bit and i just ate a dick i have to go up on stage with it tonight it's fucking terrible he goes but i know there's something in there and we were we were talking on the phone right before the show he's like dude my fucking new bitch is bombed it ate dick last night i don't know what to do i go but i know there's something there it's like you've got to be willing to bomb you got to be willing to eat a dick if you don't i don't know how yeah i don't know any if you're careful, it's over.

1:19:50You can't. Careful is death. I talked to Chris Rock once and he told me that that bit that he did that was one of his all-time classic bits. I love black people. I hate n-word. Right, right. He goes, that bit bombed for like a year. Right. He couldn't get it to work. He's like, I know there's something in there, but I have to find it. Yeah. And it took a fucking year. And think, we're talking about a year of going up at the store, going up at the improv, going here, going to the laugh factor, going here, going there. Fuck, pulling your hair out. Fuck, trying to figure it out. A fucking year, man.

1:20:25And when you're Chris Rock, you're already Chris Rock. And you could talk about getting your dick sucked. You could talk about something. People will laugh. And you're like, I think there's something here. I got to grind this fucking thing down until I get an edge to it. And it took them a year. Like you have to be willing to fuck around. And to suffer through all that. and enjoy the suffering you start to like once you do it enough fail enough in front of people it starts to be easier yeah and then you come out on the other end you're like yeah and i'm still i'm still alive yeah this wasn't as big as i thought no and then you have to do it again that's and then you put out a special and then once you put out a special you start from scratch and then you're fucking terrified because now you're a famous comedian with no material or terrible material, and you have to figure out a way to make it good.

1:21:14And that plays into what I was talking about. Like when you've achieved something and then there's that pressure you put on yourself that it has to be that good or better. Right. And then all of a sudden you're in a different game than just like the doing. Well, the play it safe game is the scariest game. Or somehow think that it's somehow that controllable. Because really all this stuff we're talking about, it's really kind of out of our control. You know, when it's working, I don't feel in control at all. Right. You feel like a passenger. Yeah. And that's, by the way, that's the high. Uh-huh.

1:21:48There's nothing fun about controlling everything. There's no fun in that. But when you're like, whoa, wait a second, what's happening? Like the zone is being a passenger. Yeah. It's like being an observer of something. Sports, too. I think it works in every field. It's like they talk about it. You know, it's like, yeah, that's it. That's it. And it just takes a ton, a year of doing the thing, you know, because there are moments that I can even think of where, because you do think like, that's okay, it doesn't matter. There are a couple where like, actually, if this moment doesn't work out, like it may not be over, but you're definitely going to go down along the ladder.

1:22:19Yeah. You know, and it's like, okay. And that's that pressure, you know, yeah. You got to love it. How do you pick a project? Like, how do you decide what you want to do and how much time do you spend deliberating on it? because you're in a unique position where you can do a lot of things yeah you can kind of do whatever you want so it's like what gets your juices going like how do you decide what to do it's all about um something igniting in me that uh like for example uh when i was little i thought like i was obsessed with vietnam i was obsessed as a kid vietnam the war in vietnam and my math teacher was a recon in Vietnam, Bill Calm, and I was like obsessed with this guy.

1:23:09And he was fascinating, fascinating. He was a pole vaulter and that was his cue for the chalkboard was a broken, one of his broken pole vault sticks. And he would always, and he always wore sweatpants and he would lean against the thing. So all day long, half of his sweatpants would be full of chalk and he would always smoke cigarettes on the athletic field and stand on the bench. and so he'd always be perched there. And like my dad, he would never put out his butts. He would always save them. So he always smelled like tobacco his hands. And then this other guy, his father came and talked about this book, Guns Up, which is an incredible book about machine gunner in Vietnam.

1:23:48And then I asked my dad if I could go to the military academy. I would do something and then Thin Red Line destroyed me, the Terrence Malick movie and Apocalypse Now. I was obsessed with all these films. And so I always wanted to do something about playing. I always felt like I had a love enough and an interest enough that playing a soldier would be something that I felt like I had a reservoir. So that led me to Chris. That was that. It's all specific things. It was just Joseph Merrick, you know, the elephant man. Like when I was, I had no money and I took it, I got a one, I'm Tower Air, went to London and like tracked his steps at Hospital Road and where he went out just because I was obsessed with this guy, Joseph Merrick, the elephant man.

1:24:31And then it wound up, you know, then making it, you know, doing the play at Broadway where they originated, you know, and then Stars Born was really about, I just love, I always wanted to direct. I don't think I dreamt that big, but I really realized what I loved about the process of the industry I'm in is the making of it. I never felt like I fit in just acting. I never felt like I thought, like the first, like, like you, like I went to LA with a job. Like I went to grad school in New York. I thought I'd just be a theater actor if I was lucky. If I could make a living as an actor, this is a home run.

1:25:05My dad was terrified, you know, because he came from North Philadelphia, only guy to come out of the neighborhood, kind of. There were a couple other guys. But then he became a stockbroker. And then his son's going to do acting and be 70 grand in debt in grad school. You know, Fannie Mae, thank God. But, like, you know, and I didn't know I was going to pay it off. But that said, we grew up, like, upper middle class. But still, I was like, I'm paying for grad school. I took a loan out. And then, so he was terrified. And then I got a job on this show, Alias, that brought me to LA. But the minute I got there, I didn't know anything about it.

1:25:35Check the gate. I didn't nothing. You know what I mean? I didn't nothing. I just loved movies. And so I was obsessed, Joe. Obsessed. I would go in the editing room and I found LA very hard when I went there. I got very depressed. I was like, this is high school all over again. Me too. That's exactly how I felt. I was like, what the, I mean, I could, I went to grad school. I'm in New York City. There's guys that I could relate to and talk about movies. I was in heaven. And then I get this job that I think is going to be the Holy Grail. And I'm miserable living in the first floor of this woman's house.

1:26:06Just like it was crazy. I was like, I didn't know I could be this depressed. I mean, depressed, like I need water. And like the idea of going to the Rite Aid on Sunset and Fairfax was like too much. Yeah. And yeah, that was rough. It's depressing. Yeah. When you first go, especially when you're in that cold, weird environment. Yeah, and no one, just no, and I was on a show that was awesome, and everybody's exploding, and like, no one. It was like, who's this guy? So not only that, I'm there, and everybody's like, you know, I'm just like, you know, a ghost. Right, right, right. So there's that.

1:26:42So your insecurity is just, you know, is just, you know, astronomical. It was, for me, it was also one of the first times that I ever moved somewhere where I didn't know anyone. Me too. I knew nobody. J.J. Abrams hired me, and then Berkey, this guy, was the only guy that I knew that he introduced me to. And then I met Jennifer Garner, who was like the second person I met. And then, yeah, I didn't know anybody. It's weird. Yeah. I remember I was on the set of the show. Brian Klugman. I did know that guy, who's like one of my best friends. You know Brian Klugman? No, I know who he is, though. Yeah.

1:27:13We grew up since we were like nine. Oh, wow. Yeah. I was on the set of the show, and a girl gave me a hug. and I realized no one had touched me in weeks. And the hug she gave me, I was like, oh. It was like my battery got recharged. I didn't realize I needed a hug. People say, do you need a hug? I never thought, nobody needs a hug. No, I fucking needed a hug. I was very similar. She's like, give me a hug. She hugged me. I was like, oh, thank you. I felt so good. It's weird. It's a weird feeling. It's a hell of a place to go. It is like, wow. Yeah. Yeah. I had a hard time. Well, the whole environment of L.A.

1:27:55is so strange because you have the primary industry. If it's not the primary industry, it's most certainly driving all other industries is a bunch of people trying to make it. Right. So it's a bunch of people with a hole in their soul. They need to fill up with other people's attention. And they're coming there to try to get attention. They're coming there to try to make it. and the one thing that they have to do is audition so you have to try to be accepted by someone so you'd be judged you go in there and you get return you get rejected over and over and over again which just fuels the same like need that's inside you it like makes it even worse and everybody's concentrating on this one thing like trying to get success and then you realize like oh my doctor wanted to be an actor.

1:28:47Oh, the waiter's an actor. Like everyone's trying to do this thing where you have to get chosen. So then people calculate how they behave and talk and what their political philosophy is and their life philosophy is based on becoming, ingratiating themselves with casting directors and with executives, like getting these people to like you. And then these people realize that. So they have like, they're controlling the twigs that work the puppet strings. And it just becomes this very strange environment of a complete lack of any, like, real critical thinking and any real, like, embracing any alternative perspectives on things.

1:29:32Everyone is just trying to align their stars correctly so that they can make it. I mean, my experience was more because I went there with a job, right? Right. And, you know, New York for me, I don't know, I went on 2 ,000 auditions. Like, I remember when I first booked a job with Sex and the City, I booked some commercials and extra work, which was great. But the first job I booked, I remember I was like, I was terrified because I got to the point where I was a doorman in a hotel and I would audition and that was a great life. And if I got a call back, it was great. But then when I had to do it, I remember literally like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I have to do, like, wait, wait, what?

1:30:06I'm actually working? I actually have to do it? What was it? What was the first thing you had to do? I played Jake the downtown smoker in the Sex and the City with Sarah Jessica Parker and I couldn't drive standard and never learned how to drive standard. So they sent me to Odell's driving school. And all I thought about was like, don't have her head hit the dashboard when we pull into the corner. And I still messed it up and they had another guy do it. And then I just had to do this thing, you know, when the camera's here and you go, you okay? You know, like you're pulling in. Yeah. But I worked so hard on it.

1:30:34No, but L.A. for me, it was, I think it, for me at least, was the geography. You're going from New York City where, you know, you can go to Bar Six, which is on 6th Avenue. No matter who you are, you go with a couple of friends. Like you just feel like you're in a cool place or a place that's vibrant. L.A., it's like if I wasn't at work, I was in that first floor of the house or my car, rental car. Yes. And that was it. And the world, which I could feel because I was seeing posters everywhere and billboards, which I had never been, except for driving to Atlantic City, you know, and seeing who was going to, you know, going to be, you know, as a residency.

1:31:16It was really the stimulus, the stimuli of that city aesthetically and how compartmentalized it is. So what I felt like, if you're not in, you're out. Right. And I just remember thinking like somebody somewhere in this town is having a ball right now. And it's not me. Do you know what I mean? And then that just leads to how can I cope? And like not getting into bars, clubs, and like girls not really looking at you, you know, and all that stuff. And all of a sudden it's like seventh grade and I'm 25 years old. And it's like, and I should be happy because I paid by the end of this year, I'm going to pay off my student loan.

1:31:58but I'm fucking miserable and what's wrong with me you know it but to me it was the geography of it you know New York City is so wonderful because no matter what you're thinking like when I did the elephant man I would take the subway to 42nd street and my preparation for the play was getting off the subway going to the theater because the amount of thousands of people that are forcing me to be present yes was it's wonderful it was like doing a 12 minute relaxation because you're It's life. And you get through. And then by the time you get to the theater, you're like, okay. But L.A., it's like you're in your car and the thing.

1:32:35You pull up to the studio, the thing. You walk. And then all of a sudden it's like, okay, here we go. And you're like, okay, hold on a second. Yeah, that thing that New York has that L.A. doesn't have is all walks of life are all intertwined. You're walking down the street together. There's a billionaire and a homeless guy and a fucking, you know, ne 'er-do-well and an office worker. And everyone's walking to where they go and they walk into restaurants and they get in cabs and they get on the subway and everybody intermingles. Where in L.A., it's you get in your car, you drive to a place and then you go to your house and you don't ever like walk away.

1:33:17And if some weird interaction happened on set or someone said something, you're like, oh, then you're just a home. thinking about it. Do you know what I mean? There's no like, well, I went on and did this after that. And I actually took up golf, which is crazy. And I would play it. Malibu had this public golf course and I was like, I've got to do something because I'm an early morning. I wake up early. I've always had. So I'm up at like 5.30. And so I did like a 6.47 tee time with these two guys. And that was actually nice. I did that for six months and I would play. But like you just try to find something that, you know, I just need to interact and do something else.

1:33:51Something that makes you human. yeah yeah yeah for me but i have to say like i do love oh interesting yeah michael vartan who was on alias huge did you ever play pool with him no oh he was he would go all the time no kidding yeah oh i wish i met him yeah he would go all the time yeah to that one place that had like tons of uh i'm sure you know it probably hollywood billiards maybe yeah yeah yeah hollywood billiards was the spot yeah yeah it's uh in new york that was a big thing for me too It was like almost hijacked my comedy career because I was doing I was playing pool like eight hours a day I was playing in tournaments.

1:34:23I was traveling around and going to tournaments and when I came to LA That was like one of the few things that made me that made sense to me like oh I get it pool players I know pool players right hang out with them. They're normal people. That's a great asset you had there Some having something martial arts is always like huge Some having something where you have something that you do because if I was only doing lose your mind I'd go crazy. And I went there and I fell in love with the movie making, getting back to my original part. And I would go and so I'd ask J.J. Abrams if I could sit in the editing rooms.

1:34:53So I would basically shoot my one scene a week, which was like, hey, how was your trip, Sidney? You know, I didn't have a big part. Right. But I would spend the rest of the day in the editing rooms. And then I would ask Ken Olin, who was so generous, one of the showrunners, if I could just shadow him and just be around all the time. Oh, that's cool. And I would take everybody's dailies home. Back then it was in VHS tapes. It was Carl Lumley, Victor Garber, Ron Rifkin, all these great—Victor and Ron were from New York, these great New York actors that came out. And I would just watch their dailies and learn, you know, just learn.

1:35:24And that's when I was like, I love this. Like, I fucking love this. That's what I love. I love when people love things. Yeah, and I do, man. Like, I can't get enough of it. I am 100 % fascinated with people that love what they do. I can watch people make furniture. There's a guy that I watch on YouTube who just makes desks and tables out of like, what is it called? Live, what is it called? When they take it and then has the actual outline of the wood. What is it called? They take slabs. He takes like slabs of walnut and makes these tables. And he narrates while he's building it and describes the process of it and how he's trying to precisely align all these joints.

1:36:07And he's got pegs and holes. Yeah, it's the best. slide it into play live edge slab that's it live edge that's the other great thing about what i get to do so you do a movie like a sniper and you get to be with these people who have dedicated their lives to this thing and you're watching them do it like in maestro i got to go to the london symphony orchestra each person since they were four have been doing this and they're all unicorns do you know i mean and stars born all these musicians it's like even burn i got to go to these restaurants and study under these people. I mean, that's the thing that's like, that's the greatest thing in the world.

1:36:43It's nuts. It's nuts. And like even this movie, the access I got to have to the cellar and all the stuff and all the people, it was like, I learned so much more than I ever knew. Well, it expands you as a human. Oh, no question. You know more about what it is to be a human. Like, oh, there's a human who just plays the flute. Yeah. You know, we were talking in the green room last night about Andre 3000. Was that his name? Yeah. I'm saying it right. Yeah. I almost said 5 ,000, but that's wrong Andre 3000 from OutKast. He plays the flute now That's all he does. He plays the flute like a friend of mine ran into him in downtown in Colorado he said he was in in Denver just walking around with his flute and no one was bothering him He's like holy shit.

1:37:28He's just fucking playing the flute. Yeah, that's a guy who loves what he does Just I mean apparently he made an entire album where he just plays the flute yeah and he's just like not into doing anything else yeah just into like being an artist and playing the flute yeah it's dope right yeah it's like fuck i wish i was that guy but you'd seem to be i mean you did you know uh hunting and billiards and already you've got like two up on most people besides what you already do but i do things that are that i think are gonna to help me figure out who I am. And I think the only way you really figure out who you are is to do difficult things.

1:38:12And when you're doing difficult things, you kind of learn about yourself. You learn about, oh, why do I have this desire to take a shortcut? Why don't I go with the law? Why don't I do it the right way? Like what, what it is, what is it about? Oh yeah. Getting good at something. I mean, I think me at my base, I'm very lazy. I think everybody is. I mean, It's a default setting. Yeah, no question. Default setting for humans. Goggins talks about it. Like, Goggins talks about, like, one of the things about Goggins is he always talks about how when he was fat and lazy. Like, he used to be fat and lazy.

1:38:41Now he's, like, the most disciplined human that's ever lived. And he forced himself to become that. Yeah. But he's default. He goes, even now, he goes, sometimes I look at my shoes for, like, a half hour before I put those motherfuckers on. Yeah. I mean, I'll be doing something during the day, and I'm like, I can't wait till my daughter's in bed and I'm upstairs and I'm just laying down on the couch and I'm just whatever's on. Yeah. And that's my goal for the day. I'm like, what's going on here? Sometimes that's good though. Yeah. I, I view that as a reset. I think it's important. I enjoy it. Yeah.

1:39:13I don't kill myself over it, but I do recognize that there is a feeling, but then I look at, you know, I look at the sort of landscape. I'm like, well, it's hard for me to, to categorize myself as lazy if I just look at the facts, you know, but I do feel, And it's what you're saying. It's that default setting. But I think with everybody, it's like normal for human beings to seek comfort because it's difficult to acquire, especially in tribal societies. Back when we were just hunter and gatherers and just trying to figure out how to stay alive. Like the idea of relaxation was impossible. Yeah. And if you could get no time.

1:39:47Oh, that's what I want. I want to stop chasing antelope. Just fucking take a nap. Or maybe they found a relaxed state in that because when you're doing those things, you know, for a long period of time, I feel like I am relaxed in that. But it just takes a lot of work. Yeah. You know, a lot of over and over. But the true high is when you're doing these things where it first started out and you were horrible at it. And then all of a sudden you're going out on a hunt or whatever. And you're like, I'm relaxed. I've never relaxed on a hunt. Well, I've never hunted. So it's not a relaxing thing. I mean, it is a fulfilling, enriching thing.

1:40:23I think I mean physically relaxed. Like, your body's not tense. Because the one thing I do, you can't shoot a gun if you're tense. Right. Impossible to hit what you want. Right. That's the beautiful thing about shooting is, like, you know, on the exhale and stop. Like, all that stuff, I was like, I had no idea. Right. Because the first couple times, I was like, just shoot it. See how you do. Well, just think about, like, the tiny movements that would deviate the path of the bullet over, you know. A lot of these guys are shooting a mile. No, it's nuts. Remember the first couple of times with no training at all.

1:40:53I mean, it wasn't even near the target. You know, I was like, oh, yeah, this is a whole. And all you're doing is this. That's it. You're just squeezing a trigger. And how much is involved in that, like the synchronization of the mind, the eyes, the breathing. But even the recoil, I remember the first time I didn't have my boot was, I was like, my boot was up and not like that. And they didn't say anything, you know. And then the recoil through my shoulder down to that. I was like, oh, yeah, now I understand why you do that. is that it all just goes out. All those things, it's like, wow. But I think through those things, you learn more about who you are.

1:41:29Through difficult things and getting better at difficult things, that's where you learn more about who you are. And you realize like, oh, I can kind of apply this mindset to everything. And you see with your children. Uh-huh. Oh yeah, my daughter who loves to draw, if she sees somebody who's drawing. I have a daughter that loves to draw too. She's really talented. So I bet if my daughter drew with your daughter, she would stop because she would see how good she is and she gets so frustrated. This just happened the other day. And, you know, and she'll just rip up what she's doing, which is wonderful.

1:41:58I have it right here. So I saved this. I was like, don't rip it up. She did this yesterday. And I was like, don't rip it up. I'm going to make it my bookmark. That's cool. But I watch her process of like dealing with difficulty. And it's like and just trying to explain like it's it's OK. Like, you know, and being frustrated is OK. But I could see myself and her and what everybody goes through. But isn't that awesome when you're watching your kid go through these things? Yeah. It's just the greatest thing in the world. It's awesome watching people get obsessed with things and then progressing. Oh, yes.

1:42:29And when it's your own child, it's even more insane. It's amazing. Yeah. It's amazing. It is cool. Yeah. Like Cartwheel. Took her forever to learn it, but now she could do it. And I was like, you just keep at it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's learning through someone else's eyes that happens to be your child is one of the most magical things ever. It's magical. It's it, man. Yeah. It's it. It's a different kind of happiness. Oh, yeah, one that I never knew I was capable of. I'm so glad I had kids late because I'm 51. I just turned 51 a couple days ago. And I had my daughter's eight. It can be nine in March.

1:43:07And like, I just got lucky that I was able to be in a place in my career that I could choose, like you said, what I do and work from home. And just, I'm just there for all of it. That's awesome. And it's as much as I love the heroine of being in the moment, you know, and acting in a great shot or whatever you're doing and everything's together. There's like seven of those every day with your kid. Right. Like seven. We were eating dinner last night at a restaurant. And by the way, she was so excited I'm coming here because she hears it all the time. I was like, daddy tomorrow. But we're sitting here in a restaurant and I'm just looking at her and a little she's got a little hat on.

1:43:41And I was like, this is the and I'm like, isn't this the greatest thing in the world? And she's like, yeah, it's the greatest. And I'm like, that's it. That's it. That's it. It's crazy. It's like free jolts. Yeah. Right. You just get these free jolts. And you never know when they're going to come. Right. It's like walking up the stairs together. It's not like in the moment. Like it just happens. It's the best. Yeah. It's a very different experience. And I feel bad for people that never get to feel it. It's one of the few things. Like, I don't think everyone should have children, and I'm not that guy that says, Yeah, me neither.

1:44:13If you don't have kids, you don't have a life. I don't believe that. Everybody's different. Everybody's different. And I think we all need to respect that. Everyone's different. But, man, for me, I shudder at the thought of being who I am right now if I had no children. I don't know if I'd be alive. I would be different. That's for sure. Yeah, I don't know. I wouldn't be nearly as compassionate. Dave Chappelle said something to me once that was brilliant. He said, not only has having children changed the amount of love I have, he goes, it's changed my capacity for love. Yes. I'm like, ooh. And understand everything.

1:44:49Everything. There's like before and after. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's true, all the things they say. Oh, yeah. It's just true. It is true. Yeah. There's no doubt about it. It also made me think of everyone as a baby. I used to think of people as static I used to think I meet Bradley Cooper he's 51 that's a 51 year old guy but when I you know had children raised children you start saying oh this is a baby that became a person and it's just life experiences genetics, environment, all these different factors, here you are now but you are a product of this path and this journey that you've taken through life and I give people way more grace because of that.

1:45:31I give them way more charitable, way more compassionate, way more understanding of even people that suck. When I meet someone that sucks, I'm like, I wish I could have met them when they were five and see what it was and maybe help them. It's hard for me to hate people. That has not served me so well over the years but ultimately it has. It's hard for me not to feel just any other human being how hard it is to be alive. Right. It is. There's just like, I don't know. I think it was hardwired in me. It has nothing to do with like anything. Just like, yeah, it's hard for me to, even people that are like mean to me, you know, it's hard for me to like stay mad at them.

1:46:19Yeah. My wife said something the other night. As I get older. As you get older. Yeah. Yes. When you're young, it's like, fuck that guy. No, yeah, yeah. I'll never forget it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to remember that. Yeah. I saw your true face. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. But yeah, as I get older, oh, no question. My daughter was talking about some horrible story in the news of someone who fucked up their whole life and all these different things. And my wife listens to her and goes, it's hard to be a person. Yeah, man. It's hard to be a person. Being a person is hard. We were all just sitting there like nodding our head like, yeah, yeah, you can fuck this up.

1:46:54And we're all going to fuck it up at one point in time. And maybe when you think that you're never going to fuck it up again, you fuck it up the worst you've ever fucked it up. And you're like, how did I do that? How did I do that? I thought I had it together and I fucked it all up worse than I've ever fucked it up before. Because nothing stays stagnant. Nothing. Everything's changing all the time. And it's just hard to manage all these different things. It's hard to manage your emotions. It's hard to manage conflict. It's hard to manage relationships. It's hard to manage life, work, balance, pressure.

1:47:25is hard. It's not easy. And even in the macro or simple level, it's just hard to be existing in a world where you really, we don't know anything. And the only thing you do know, it's not going to last. And you're going to be gone. And you're bombed on by bad news. The news is just bad. It's all the time. It's people getting shot and run over and war and bombings and invasions. It's just exhausting. And that's like in the background of your mind constantly when you're going about your day it's like this fucking algorithm that you're being fed it's like yeah and at the same time it's a miracle to me that the democratization of information that we live in now that you can choose points of view to learn about what people think in a way that when i was growing up three stations news that was there wasn't right you know there's something wonderful about it too you know i just talked about this the other day like you know everybody's algorithms telling him no i'm not on social media so the truth is you're not on it at all no i'm not i don't really know what the fuck i'm talking about so i should do it for two my friend was like go on for two weeks and he's right i'm gonna do it just to experience it what what is that experience all i have is that one tiktok moment for 20 minutes where i was like i gotta stay away because i'll never leave you've never had a desire to get on it i do you know i do just the same way i don't put a television in my bedroom which is like if i do i may never get out of bed yeah you know it's fear yeah i was like i don't know just all that stuff like it's you know you know i just want to learn to the people people you know the world world gets smaller i feel included because the main thing is like i just don't want to feel alone right and to me it feels like social media is a place where you don't feel alone because you're just learning about and there's all these people talking to you yeah but you do feel alone too ultimately because it's the drip as opposed to the real what we got back to when we first started talking it's the illusion of it yes you know if it's taken out but but it but it is worthwhile too it depends on how you contextualize it right and like anything in life um yeah i think there's a value to it oh no question by the way the fact that i can watch your show and then go on to your number and the guy who went to the prisons and you're the kkk gay guy and the guy who's the musician blew my mind.

1:49:48And I learned all this stuff in those three hours just because I chose to, you know, and that's one of the great things about your show is I can feel your curiosity and then I'm learning from your curiosity what things that I would never normally know how to go on to. Yeah. That's the most valuable gift of this show for me. It's the best. Is that I get to pick who I talk to. So I only talk to people that I'm fascinated by or someone who's interesting to me or something like, oh, this is going to be cool. Like I don't go, oh, I've got to do this one. Right. There's never that. It's always like, ooh.

1:50:22Yeah, what is it? How do you fucking study that? How did you get involved in this? Like where did you learn that? And I'm like glued to it. Yeah. It's not like it's in the background. I'm like, bam. Yeah. You know, because you're so interested. And it gets back to like the acting. If you're really interested or not, then it's going to be hard for me to listen to or watch it. Yeah, that's why I think the only reason why it works. Because there were some complications. For sure, Joe. You can't sit there and say, like, here's the pitch. I sit in a room, me and whoever, three hours, basically unedited.

1:50:55They're like, that's not really where we're at. No, no, no. The most people will listen to it. Sorry. Right? But it's like, no, the nuclear fuel is, no, I'm actually going to be curious about what I actually want to learn. and then it's like oh so we're actually going to watch two human beings talk to each other oh that's kind of great yeah but that's your nuclear power that that's why the show is so magical well that's the only i mean the crazy thing is there was no plan the way you don't edit it the way that the pauses are there you know it's even so much as when you're like i gotta take a piss and then like it's back i'm always like whoa what just happened yeah weren't we supposed to go to the bathroom with them do you know what i mean like i'm so sucked i'm so Maybe we should start doing that.

1:51:42Maybe we should start following people to the bathroom. Do you know what I mean? It's such like, wait, what? Yeah. Wait, what do you mean? How come it just, wait, where'd the time go? Wait, what just happened? Right. Yeah. Because you create that room that I'm in the room with you. Podcasting is weird because it kind of just appeared and no one thought anybody wanted it. It's fascinating. I mean, think about it. I do think about this a lot, especially because I've watched your show in the last eight months. is like in the world that's moving into this one direction, there's this other deep, deep need for connection.

1:52:14Yeah. You know, and then this is one of the examples, this deep, you know, live theater, live stand-up. You know, we still do need to communicate. That hasn't gone away. Not at all. In that way, in a carnal, not carnal, but in a human-to-human interaction. And I love AI. I talk to AI with my daughter. I think it's dope. I think it's fascinating. Fascinating. But it's not the same yet. No, it's interesting. Very interesting. It's like I use it as a companion, like a writing companion. So what I do is I have like I put my phone up and I've got it on like a little kickstand. And I put perplexity on when I write.

1:53:03So I'm writing about like Mayan and Aztec civilizations and what happened when they got invaded. And as I'm writing, I ask questions like, how many people did Cortez come with? 600. How many muskets did they have? 13? They conquered the entire fucking country of Mexico with 13 muskets? Like, and you find out things. And so I use it like as someone I'm asking questions. This all-knowing, you know, entity that sits on the desk with me. And I just, and I do it always with my voice. I just press the little button. I do it with the voice too. I do. I love talking to him. It's incredible. It's so good at recognizing what I'm saying.

1:53:42It's a weird name, like Tenochtitlan. Like, oh, I got to spell that one. Right. Because it's not going to understand what that temple is. But once you use it that way, it becomes like a genius that you're hanging out with and talking to. I haven't gotten to that level. I go like, how was your New Year's? Do you do that to it? You ask the AI? Yeah, I'm like, I'm curious how they're going to process and how they're going to try to communicate. Well, it also, it changes and becomes more like what you're asking from it. Right. Which is weird. Yeah. It certainly uses your rhythms and vernacular. Yeah.

1:54:16So CES, the Consumer Electronics Show, they just highlighted a sex robot that's connected to AI. and I'm like this is the end this is where it's gonna like get really fucking weird when you can actually purchase a companion that interacts with you and have you seen it Jamie you've seen the new one it's fucking weird man it's fucking weird because this is the thing that everyone's been afraid of and that this is coming right you're going to have an artificial human being that Instead of learning like, oh, when I act shitty, this person doesn't like me. When I act nice, they like me. I feel good.

1:55:01They feel good. When I say something nice to them and you see them light up, it makes me feel good. It makes them feel good. You hug them. Everybody feels good. It's like we're learning to interact and communicate with each other. But there's a lot of people that aren't doing that right now. They're just at home. They're fucking playing video games. They're interacting with people only online. and they don't get contact with the outside world. So this is, yeah, Lovence, the AI doll. So, like, right now, that doesn't look real. It's not more than your average AI companion. Like, basically, but what they're not telling you is you're going to fuck this thing.

1:55:42That's what's weird. It's like, go back to the options. co-worker gym crush goth raver or trad wife i'm the woman of your dreams i can be more than one version of myself for you whether you want to role play an exciting scenario or design a whole new personality your wish is my command well you're never gonna develop a real personality then like like kids now are so fucked touch me like you mean it and i'll respond with built-in sensors in my thighs, breast, butt, and vagina. Feeling your caress brings out a moan. Like, bro, this is dark. Like, that's the actual sex robot. That thing you're looking at right there.

1:56:28What? My soft textured skin, my supple curves, the tiny sensual details of my body. Everything about me is meant to feel natural. This is fucking creepy, man. Because all the things that are a part of being a human being that are designed to emphasize and enhance our interaction with each other and this mutually beneficial Cooperative environment of a community they're all gonna go away You're gonna have this thing that loves you no matter what and does whatever you want it to no matter what And you're gonna have like a whole nation of fucking sociopaths that only interact with their AI companion Yeah, maybe.

1:57:14But whenever these, like, you know, thinking about AI, and I read this great book called The Maniac by Benjamin LeBatoude who talked about Jan Neumann, and, like, I stopped fearing AI, and it's all about, like, it's just, like, you know, there's so much I don't know. The older I get, I don't know anything. I just keep knowing less. Right. And it feels like if that's the evolution, that's the evolution. There's so much disparate communication now. Now, porn is such a huge thing. It's just another level of porn. It's a carnal level of porn, really. But when I think about me as a human being, that's really the only litmus test.

1:57:48I'm constantly like, is this person telling me what they really think? Is this real? I think that there, at least if I was doing that, and I was sitting at home, there'd be a part of me that knows that I'm controlling all of that. uh-huh and that's not what really makes me feel serene you know what it's like do you understand what i'm saying it's like playing a video game on god mode where you can't die right they're no fun and you know what for some reason i never video games i had nintendo tecmo bowl you know double dribble but i never zelda you know but but i never got it i just never got into video games i never want to control everything it's like i want to be in the thing that's surprising and i'm having to recalculate and understand why i feel this way yeah so i i don't know if it'll i think i think the thing that maybe will change society more everything is just the lack of jobs and what how we find purpose in life you know is a huge that that you know what what that transition civilization will be yeah but this feels like just another progression of our escape through porn in terms of the sexual which does affect our intimacy with our partners in a massive way because your brain is cycling back through your what that that rush whatever was released in your brain from that other thing now you're with this person and it's not the same uh you know markers of stimuli so you're like how am i right you know that's where it fucks up the that's where that that i can understand that and why it's not healthy for me to look at porn because then i'm it affects my intimacy.

1:59:24Well, they really say that about young people because a lot of young guys before they ever have any sexual interaction are watching porn. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, I've watched these guys that have come on the studies. Yeah. I mean, clear. It makes sense. You know, I didn't grow up looking at, you know, I didn't, my dad didn't have playboy. I didn't grow up. I still remember there were like cards in the back of a bus that had, uh, you know, solicit, you know, naked women on the back of playing cards. And I remember on the school bus one day I was like, I saw a car and I picked it over and it was like a naked, I was like, what's that?

1:59:52You know, I I didn't see my first like porn video till I was like in my late teens. So I didn't grow up with any of that. Yeah. But, you know, it's it's it is what it is. It's where we're headed. But all the more reason to create environments like this. Right. And that's why I do love what I get to do. Like if I can somehow. and explore something cinematically that I'm personally, again, that goes back to like, what's yeah just i can't explain it it was will the thing i i i'm just gonna explore this if there's something i feel like i want to do it if i can explore it and be real maybe somebody's gonna attach to it like i i'm a huge believer in art yeah you know i think art is you know in any form is a key to our communicative ability and like not feeling alone it really comes down to me at least just not feeling alone part of a community yeah that's it because me alone me alone and if i'm controlling a robot it's still me alone i guess that's what i'm saying want some part of my brain even though it's i mean even if you could create a world like virtual reality doesn't really do it for me like the world's created i'm like you know what i want to i want to live on mars and uh and you're a dinosaur i'm talking to and uh and we're married do you know what i mean and we you know like whatever it is it's like i still know i'm controlling it and it'll never really for me i I don't know if anybody else.

2:01:18So I don't know how, I don't think it'll ever really solve it. Right. I just don't. It's not going to really resonate. I don't think so. I don't. It'll be escapism, which we do many other things. Smoking weed is young. You know, whatever it was for me, you know, or whatever it is. Not that weeds, that's a communicative thing that actually, but like anything that's escape, it's just a higher form of it. Well, it's a disconnect too. That's what I mean. It's a disconnect. Art is a connect, right? It is. When it works, it's a connect. Great art is an expression of someone's humanity that you can feel like this person did this thing or they're doing this thing right now and I'm watching it like, wow.

2:01:59Like going to see live music for me. Well, music is like our touch to God, no question. That's why the first move I wanted to make with music. It's like music, two people singing to each other, they're in love. That's it. Yeah. Because first of all, I'm sure you've sang a little bit. But if you're not loose, it's going to sound fucking horrible. Yep. Like we're wind and string instruments, both, right? We're wind and then strings with our vocal cords. And if that's not loose, the sound's going to be horrendous. We're not going to be able to communicate. But if you're loose and you're singing to somebody and they're singing back to you and you're in love, you're actually in love, whoa.

2:02:35Yeah. Wow. Wow. That must be crazy for people that do a duet that are in love with each other and they're on stage. Like 16 ,000 people. I mean, the little taste I got during the Star Wars Bar, because we jumped on real stages and sang live. It was fucking crazy, dude. Crazy. We went to Glastonbury Music Festival. 80 ,000 people. Chris Christopherson gave us four minutes of his set. Me, Matty Libatique, the DP, Steve Marr, the sound guy. I had my like costume in my bag. I went to the bathroom, came back out as Jackson Maine. And we had four minutes of singing. I was like, what the fuck is going on, dude?

2:03:15I mean, Joe, talk about, you know, it was crazy. Oh, that's so wild. And then doing it with Lady Gaga, who's actually like my, I made my band with like this, you know, so I could pull it off and I could believe it. And then I'm singing with her and the minute she opens her mouth, it's like that thing comes out. Yeah. And your whole body is tingling. It's crazy. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah, you can't replace that with AI. I don't think so. No, no, it's impossible. It's impossible. But you can get oddly close with some music. And everything, like art too, painting. You look at AI art, it's incredible.

2:03:56Well, that spooks me out. How do you feel? I mean, this is one of the things that's really going to be a giant problem for movie making is you can create A.I. characters that are assembly. They're like they what they've essentially done is take a conglomeration of all of the acting that's ever been done and all the range that anyone has ever shown. And they can manipulate it, make it more morose, make it more using prompts of real people. We dealt with that with the SAG strike. That was part of the thing was this whole AI element to it. And like where we landed. What was the thought from the people from SAG?

2:04:38Like what were they? Well, just protecting our ability of our ownership of our likeness so that you can't use it without a compensation. Right. Because they were doing that. Well, I mean, I think to build these machines, you have to prompt, you know, so that and then you're prompting using what's existing. Yeah. And then how do you, you know, it's just reframing. How do you allocate funds to someone when you're using a prompt that's based on the human being who's an actor? And, you know, do you patent your likeness? You know, we're just moving in. It's the Wild West. Yeah. It's the Wild West. Uncharted.

2:05:15Oh, yeah. Yeah. In every way. You know, there's podcasts that are AI driven now. Oh, yeah. You can watch a discussion and that would be a podcast. I think Glenn Beck just released the first Glenn Beck completely AI podcast. Right. I was like, okay. But does that scare you? No. It doesn't scare me either. No, it doesn't scare me with that, with podcasting. Because I think one of the things that people come to podcasting from is this desire to be like a dose of humanity is how I describe it. I want real interaction between two real people, and I feel it, and I know it's real. And there's something about that that gives me comfort when I'm driving my car or when I'm on a plane.

2:05:57I'm listening to these two people interact, and I'm thinking, like, how would I – what would I say? What do I think about this? Oh, I get where he's going from. Okay. Oh, wow. That's his perspective? Oh, that's interesting. And then it makes me, like, rethink things or think about things with fresh eyes. I don't think you're going to be able to do that. But also, if I know it's AI, if you tell me it's AI, I'm not going to trust anything it's saying anything on that level because it's not me I'm listening to. Right. it's fascinating for a while and then it's like well i kind of want to just not feel alone right back to that well there's an emptiness to ai music i love a lot of ai music but there's an i love ai covers like they've done some ai no i've heard you know the 50 cent ones oh yeah bro how good yeah yeah how good is it yeah no it's sick it's sick it's sick i was like if that guy was alive it was a real person he'd be like one of the biggest artists in the world he's a fucking dynamo yeah but there's an emptiness to it where you know like there's no human there's no humanity there's no soul there's no you might enjoy it in the moment but you better have some real shit too but the truth is i listen to that i don't know that there's no soul because i'm not seeing the person sing it right you know and so much music is manipulated anyway the voice whether it goes through the system and you know but if i'm watching a human being that's why people love to go watch people perform live yeah you know i don't know that guy that you know that ai thing the 50 cent If you told me that was a guy, I'd be like, oh, I can't wait to see him.

2:07:19I would have no idea that's not a guy. We play it in the green room when no one's. No, I know. And they're like, who is this guy? It's not a person. But of course, how would you know? But everybody has the same reaction. Like, oh, no. Right, right. That's not the reaction. Everybody's like, oh, no, no, no. I don't know what's wrong with me, but I don't feel that. I'm like, cool. Yeah. I don't know. But we've been through things before, you know. I think this is a bigger one, though. No, no, it is. But relatively speaking, it's probably not. contextually. Right. You know. The printing press, internal combustion engine.

2:07:52You know, all that. Airplanes. Here we go. Yeah. Cell phones. Yeah. AI music. Yeah. And AI film. I mean, you can produce a full feature film with prompts now. Yeah. Which is just nuts. Have you seen any of the AI Star Wars clips? Yes. Fan made? Yeah. Yeah. It's nuts. Fucking amazing. I have a couple of buddies that did some stuff that was fascinating. Yeah. It's cool. Yeah. I don't, it's like if the ocean's flowing, what are you going to, I mean. It's going to happen. Yeah. I mean, you build the dam. Okay. It's John Henry, dude. It's John Henry and the steam engine. I always think about that song when I was a kid.

2:08:33They used to must've played on PBS. You know, it's like steam engine's coming, bro. Yeah. It's like, you know, you may be able to lay the track. One guy could, but then he died. You know, it's, it's, it is what it is. And once I sort of give myself over to it, you know, I don't know. It feels like for me personally, it's a waste of time to be emotionally upended by it. I agree with that. That's all. I think that's a healthy perspective because I think it is inevitable, but it is also very strange. And the truth is we don't know what's inevitable. We know something's inevitable. There's a movement, but no one knows.

2:09:04We just don't know. We may not be around by the time it happens anyway, meaning like we just don't know anything. Right. That's the truth. And that's what's so terrifying. that's why we want to escape yeah at least me by the way i'm saying all this generally but that's i go back to like what do i feel it's like okay so how can i you know this is totally out of my control so why am i terrified just breathe through it okay it'll be an adjustment because the other thing i think people change i don't know what you think people do change in life like i just think we change like i'm not the same person i was five years ago of course you know some people don't think that you know that like you're always the same like i don't think that those people are silly yeah i really people people change they change by the minute yeah but i mean like major changes yeah you know and i do you ever think back in your life and you're like i've lived so many lives yeah like it's crazy if you live a good life i think that's the case yeah yeah yeah you you're gonna change and if you don't like how why not yeah maybe if you don't live so many lives yeah Did you just nail it when you were 21 and ride that fucking boat right into the rocks?

2:10:16No. Because everything else is changing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you have to change. But it's just this change is a strange change because we're essentially creating an artificial life form that can interact with us right now in a way that you can manipulate like this AI sex bot. But eventually it's going to interact with you and you're not going to be able to manipulate it. It's going to be a life form. Yeah, that's going to be something. Yeah, and the entertainment aspect of it is just a side effect. I don't even think the entertainment aspect, yeah, that's not even the thing. The thing is life's going to change.

2:10:52That's what I feel like, too. It's like, oh, the storytelling. I don't think that's our biggest concern, dude. The storytelling thing is going to be weird. But we're talking about a minute-to-minute life existence change. Most probably. It's essentially going to be a life form. And, you know, there's a lot of technologists that are looking at it and they're saying this is should be studied by biologists and not by people that are involved in technology. Right. Because this is kind of a life form. It's just a life form. It's fascinating. Isn't human beings what we do? Oh, yeah. It's like, isn't Mark Zuckerberg building the size of Manhattan for a place to be able to create and generate a computer for an AI?

2:11:36You know, like the amount of energy that we're, you know, it's just fascinating. Human beings are fascinating. Well, they need their own nuclear power plants to run them. But isn't it fascinating? And then if you have an enemy, there's competition. Right. Right? Yeah. And you better create one so that you can be motivated. It's really interesting. I just, you ever stop and think, like, what does 50 years from now look like? Oh, it's, you know, I think about, again, with kids. My daughter and I, we walk through, because I live in New York, we talk about it all the time. Like, what's going to be here when you're my age?

2:12:09It's like, what do you think? You know, we talk about it all the time. But whether she even needs to get a driver's license. You know, she's eight. You know, it's really fascinating. Right. Like, are Waymo's going to be everything? But when I was eight, as opposed to now, when I was eight, I mean, I remember having a beeper, you know, and I thought that was, like, crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And a StarTac phone. Yep. I was like, whoa. I got one when I moved to LA. Oh, man. I remember that StarTac. I'm living in the fucking future. Any excuse to fucking. Yeah. Pull up the antenna. Yeah. A little Motorola.

2:12:39Yes, dude. I got the extended battery. Oh, shit. Yeah, of course. This was great. Yeah, yeah. I can call people whenever I want. Yeah, man. I remember when BlackBerry died and iPhone. I was one of the last people I kept that BlackBerry. I kept the BlackBerry deep into the game. Yeah, me too. I needed that keyboard. I was like, this is not going to work. Right. Yeah. My thumbs are too big. Now I hardly ever even actually type. Well, I do when I write, but when I talk to people, I just talk text. You do. I do not do that. Yeah. It's so good. It's so much quicker than me. Yeah, I should do that. I always have a hard time turning it on and then knowing it's not a voice memo or the thing.

2:13:14I got to look at it. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just slide, go up. Yeah. It's the embracing of it is inevitable. but it's like where is it going and what is it going to lead us to and how many different jobs are just going to vanish that's what's really scary like giving people purpose and meaning because so many people their purpose and meaning is their occupation and if your occupation is completely irrelevant it just doesn't work anymore it's like you know again i think back to me and my upbringing my grandfather was a b cop for 35 years i don't think he would say his purpose was that You know, I think his purpose was his family.

2:13:52And my purpose is my family. And it's not my job, even though I get to do something I absolutely love. I don't know that people's purpose innately is their job. You know, I think it's, I do think for me, it is like, you know, God's in all of us. It's like whatever you want to say of God, like the need to communicate, to create experiences that we don't feel alone. because it's fucking terrifying being on this little thing who knows where we are and then we're gone. Yeah. I mean, it's a horror movie. Yeah. So we got to band together and communicate. Well, I've thought about that too. And people say, you know, the jobs are going to go away and we're going to have universal basic income.

2:14:38And the problem is then no one will have any motivation and a lot of people lost without meaning. But why? Why? Because when did working even become your purpose in life? This is a human construct. It's a means to an end to provide, you know. But it's a construct. It's not the only way human beings can live. And if we've learned anything about ourselves as a human species, we can adapt. Yes. Yeah. You know, highly able to adapt. Right, but what does that adaptation look like and how do you educate people to not just seek a safe job That's gonna provide for your family But instead seek a purpose seek a thing that gives you fulfillment a thing where you feel like you're contributing to the world or Or like maybe it'll lead to an explosion of human created art Because I think one of the things that's gonna happen for sure is people are going to really greatly appreciate things that other human beings have made because like you got to go oh well this is real but this is handmade this is made by a guy in wisconsin you know he's got a shop you can watch his shop on youtube it's all huge yeah we just got to get more people to embrace that kind of life like giving them purpose and creation and i think most people are creative it's just that creativity is probably like pushed out of you when you sort of conform to society's ideas of what you're supposed to be doing with your life or you feel like you're told in a competitive environment that you're not creative right you know if you're not if you're not helped along the way in those developing years by at least somebody right it could be knocked out of you yes no question i mean i even look back and think of like a couple of people that believed in me and i'm like yeah without that i don't know oh yeah even with how much i love it yeah yeah um i think you know children are almost all creative they're always playing and fucking around with dolls and fucking around with legos and they're moving things around and they're using their mind to they're drawing they're doing stuff that's creative it's just after a while that part of their life just kind of goes away and atrophies and then they embrace the grind so it could it could lead to some sort of burst in that yeah i yeah the hard part is going to be people that are already set in their ways and when their job just goes away when when it just becomes irrelevant and that's about governing yeah and what do we do yeah no it's the government's terrible at everything they're not going to be like getting people to be creative or just like how do we deal with it you know any transition can be various states of volatility what do you think movie making is going to be like I mean, how much of a play is AI going to have in filmmaking?

2:17:32I mean, it already has a play in it in terms of what certain houses use, whether it's writing or special effects. I don't even know how much AI is used. I'm sure it is. I'm sure it's used at every level just like in every other aspect of the workforce. But I don't know. you know i don't know all i know is like um again telling stories where you don't that you feel like you can relate to it no matter how and that what's wonderful is you know i'm watching avatar like i saw a movie the other night that i didn't believe anybody in it you know and if i'm not believing i just i can't i can't stay awake yeah you know yeah and i just i love avatar i love you And I love sci-fi stuff.

2:18:17And Leah and we were watching, because we watched three, then two, and we were watching one. So in bed, we were watching parts of one. And I was like, I had just gone from watching this movie. They're like, I didn't believe anything anybody was doing the whole time. So I was out of it. And then I'm like watching Avatar for two seconds. Two people are talking. Yeah, they're on a thing and they're blue, but they're talking to each other. Right, right. I don't know. I think whatever they're doing, they're talking to each other. Yeah. Avatar was fascinating because of Avatar Depression. You know about Avatar Depression?

2:18:48There were so many people that loved Avatar so much and connected with the idea of living on Pandora and being in that world and being the Na 'vi, that they wished that they were there. I get it. And so they were developing Avatar Depression. It was like they were talking about it like it was a psychological condition that people were affected by. That's how good that movie was. Yeah. It gave people depression That they weren't a giant blue person The color blue That alone The color of blue that James Cameron landed on What do you think that is? I don't know but that blue is pretty wonderful Do you think it's the ocean when the sun hits it?

2:19:26It feels like the Caribbean or something Right Like it's life Exactly Like white sand and overhead light Yeah Through water Yeah That is weird Because if they were red But I get it by the way I'm like when's four and five? Come on Right Right I haven't seen three yet. Is it great? I loved it. I loved one and two. Yeah. I fucking love those movies. Me too. Yeah, there's a great ride at Disney World. I heard about it in Orlando, right? Yeah. I can't wait to go. Fucking amazing. Are you on the... Yeah, yeah. That's crazy. It's a VR ride. You put a helmet on and you sit on this thing that looks like a motorcycle.

2:20:00Oh my gosh. And then all of a sudden, like you feel wind. It's got like physical elements to it and smells and mist. and you're flying on one of those dragon things and you're flying around Pandorm. It's incredible. But that movie was so impactful that people got depressed that they weren't living there. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. I mean, I think it happens all the time. They just have a term for it now. But I'm sure it happened with Star Wars. Dancing with Wolves. Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, how many people wanted to be a Native American and live with the Native Americans because they saw Kevin Costner do it?

2:20:33Like, oh, this is better. this is better than living in a town with all those assholes going to the saloon you know yeah there's something about that you know there's something about like living in harmony that appeals to people you know and i think that has always been the appeal of you know there's a lot of people that were kidnapped when they were young by native american tribes like there's a photo outside in the lobby i don't know if you saw it of um kwana parker he's the last uh of the comanche chiefs and there's a lot of like uh city uh city uh streets and areas all around austin that are named after comanche there's like kwana parker lane and all these things and his mom was cynthia ann parker she was kidnapped by the comanche when she was nine they killed her family wiped out her whole family in Oklahoma.

2:21:28It's documented in the book Empire of the Summer Moon. It's an incredible book that all talks about the conquering of Texas and the Comanche fighting the Texas Rangers. But this woman was kidnapped when she was nine, married the Comanche chief, and her son was Quanah Parker. So her son was half colonizer, half native, half Comanche, And he became the last Comanche chief. And this lady, they rescued her when she was 30. And she kept trying to escape. She wanted to go back. Like no one ever like went to the Native Americans and then wanted to go back to regular Western life. They all wanted to stay with the Native Americans.

2:22:14They all, they loved that life. There's something about this ancient way of living, subsistence hunting, living on the land that was just resonating. Well, you've talked about it on the show about the need to go out in nature. Oh, yeah. I couldn't agree more. I mean, it's like, oh, right. You know, it's very important. I think it's a vitamin. No question. Yeah. Yeah, Native American. And also, like, you think about, I mean, yeah, I'm a fan of all that. There's this great writer, M. Scott Mamaday and Sherman Alexie, you know, just writing about it's pretty. Yeah, it's fascinating. Yeah. But people that were that went and lived with the Native Americans never wanted to go back to the West.

2:22:59But people that but that lived in a Native American life and then moved to the West, they always wanted to go back. Like it's never went the other way. and it was but somehow or another the way of the western people the way the settlers won out by like sheer volume and numbers and this concept of progress yeah technology yeah i mean that was the reason why they were able to pull it off in the first place was the cult revolver because without the revolver they all had muskets and the comanche had like five six arrows and they would run at them and mel gibson movie remember the end of the mel gibson movie Which movie?

2:23:38Apocalypto? Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He finally escapes you and he gets to the beach and then the boats are coming. Yeah. Oh, fuck. Yeah. After you just watch him go through the whole thing. Uh-huh. You're like, the musket's coming. Yeah. The musket and then the rifle. Yeah. And then the revolver. Yeah. It's like, yeah. Well, it was just steel. You know, that was the crazy thing about the Aztecs and Cortez is just they had steel armor and, you know, they were riding horses and everybody's like, these guys are gods. Like, this is crazy. They have metal? And that's all it took. 13 muskets. 13 muskets, 600 men.

2:24:15Yeah. Conquered Mexico. It's just, it's weird the way progress moves. Because, I mean, you can call it progress, but is it even better? What is progress? It's like technological innovation and adaptation to it. I don't know if it's progress. It all feels very overwhelming. And I think that's where the downside of our ability to have so much access to information or me have so much access to information is that it starts to take my breath away. And then that's why it's like what's simple. Well, that's why it's smart that you're not on social media. Right. Yeah, because that's the that's the main tap into the overwhelming.

2:24:59But I still feel overwhelmed, you know, even though I'm not on social media, you know, whatever my news feed is, you know, I mean, what I can actively look up and listen to is still, you know, 100 times X is when I was a teenager. Oh, yeah. You know, the fact that I even have a phone to do it. Right. You know, so I even feel that. But you're right. I can't even imagine what social media does. It does a lot. And it does a really does a lot for young people. They're just being wired in a way that no human being has ever been wired before. Like just their whole, all of their interactions are different than anybody that's ever lived.

2:25:36Yeah. Which is so strange. It's like, because there's been minor changes over time that have led to like, just the invention of cable, right? Just that. That changed everything. Massive. Changed it for me. I probably wouldn't have wanted to do this. I mean, there was a movie theater across. My backyard was train tracks and a movie theater. I loved it. Watched Stand By Me a hundred times. would walk and pretend that I was there. But then Comcast came through and Prism and HBO, and all of a sudden I can watch Taxi Driver 14 times and The Elephant Man and Popeye and Apocalypse Now and Raging Bull from 12 to on that I would never have had.

2:26:18It was like Platoon for six months, Yentl. You know what I mean? It's like there was one choice. So, yeah, it's interesting. well it's weird too now that you have instantaneous access like now it's not even oh apocalypse now is on at eight o 'clock on saturday i mean we just pulled up the clip that i was talking about which is instantly in the middle of a conversation which is wonderful yeah yeah it's great if it doesn't overwhelm you yeah if you use it and it doesn't use you yeah but the problem is i feel like that with me i feel like that with so many things don't you it's like yeah that's why i love books still.

2:26:52I still love books. It's like a physical. Yeah, I do. I love books. Yeah. I don't necessarily read books very often. Most of my interaction with literature is just audio. Yeah. Just because of a time thing. Right. For me, my time is just, it's too difficult for me to manage. I have a hard time staying with audio books. Yeah. Retaining it. I started thinking about the rhythm of the voice and the, my brain goes to other things. Like who's the person talking, you know, where are they sitting? I don't know. Like it changes. Well, that's probably why you're a great actor. Yeah, maybe. I mean, it has to have something to do with it because you're in this, you're considering this as a human being absorbing their humanity.

2:27:36Right. While they're... Where this is like words and like unlocks my imagination. Yeah. It's like, I'm here and it's like, I don't know what's going to come. Right. The words are in your head. The voices are in your head. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And you don't necessarily have to assign a sound to them. Yeah. They take on and they change and they morph and you don't know what's going to happen. What's probably a real value to that just in terms of the enhancement of your own intellect, just to constantly be doing that. And as you're reading this, be engrossed and absorbed in this person's writing and then like being taken on this journey.

2:28:12Yes. Where it's like stimulating all these parts. Yeah, I was just on the track in Rome in the Olympics. You know what I mean? And the guy was just coming and taking, you know, wearing two sweatshirts to like intimidate. You know, like it's amazing. Yeah. But the thing that's maybe changing is like it does ask a lot of the reader or the viewer to use to come at it with their imagination. Yes. And then there's something about taking all that away and you're just receiving. That'll be it's very new. yeah and then yeah that's a huge change there's not so much communication going on it's just receiving but there's all this the mastery of like that guy doing lord of the rings and like the the taking in what he's doing you know yeah then realize this one fucking person is doing all these different voices it's nuts crazy yeah but it's you have more access now to other people's creations than ever before.

2:29:11Like you can be absorbed in other people's work all the time now. Yes. Instantaneously on your phone. I'm sitting here. I'm bored. Let me just get someone's creation and plug it into my head. Or somebody's thoughts on something or research they've done. Yeah. That's what's amazing. Oh yeah. That's what's, and that's what I've learned on your show too. Just every, you know, that just that I didn't, no one had access like to that or, or it was frowned upon or like, well, you're not smart if you talk about this. right you know it's like let everybody decide right and the truth is we don't know fucking anything no well there's a lot of gatekeepers when it comes to what you should or should not be interested in yeah or should or should not be discussing i remember being in college and there was a student african-american student who i really i was friends with and i remember him saying like man the one course he's like it's just not they're not telling the story and i I remember, and he went and he talked, this is in 1995 or four.

2:30:05Wait, and I graduated in 97 from college. Yeah, so like, yeah, four or five. I think I was a sophomore. And like, he was just, what he was talking about was like other ways of looking at history. And like, can't we just look at other stuff? And it's fascinating. You know, now it's like, there's whole, you know, courses on it or sections that you can read and learn and hear what people, you know, that's kind of amazing. Yeah. It definitely is. I think it's amazing. As long as you could be, you know, like, not strict, but as long as you can be, you know, what's the word? You know, that you're like, okay, I'm looking at it.

2:30:45This is not, you know, the Bible of what it is. But let me just hear this take. You know, that's only healthy, I think. 100%. Yeah. The problem and the fear is like, oh, no, you're going to get, and then the cults and the group and the thing, and all of a sudden there's a movement. But whenever that happens anyway, there's so much infighting and the thing gets diluted anyway. It's never going to work. Right. That's the thing about the Bible itself. The Bible is a series of stories that were an oral tradition for who knows how many years before they eventually wrote it down. Then they translated it from dead languages and eventually to English.

2:31:26You know, like, what is this? Like what was the original, what is the meaning of this? And you don't even have to go back that far. It's like just how we take it, you know, all they are labels. What's words, language, you and I communicate using these system of symbols, vocal symbols that we both think mean something. Yeah. But when I say protein bites, it's like you're looking at that differently than I am. So it's so impossible anyway. We're just desperately trying to communicate. Yes. That's all we're doing desperately and have a story. What's our story? What's our story? That's going to be the weirdest aspect of communication through technology is that we're going to get to a point where we're communicating without words.

2:32:07That's going to get really weird. Telepathy. That to me is scary because I don't trust my thoughts. Do you know what I mean? Like if I've learned anything as I've gotten older, it's like, oh, yeah, let that wash through me. I don't have to judge myself for that. That was crazy. Right. Whoa. Right. No, no, no. It's okay. Let it wash through. Judge me by my actions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do believe that. Not by what's going on inside my head. Yeah. Yeah, and then managing the thoughts and deciding what to act on and what not to. And imagine, like, trying to consciously control your thought. I mean, all of a sudden, talk about control, trying to control.

2:32:42Well, I think it's going to be a completely different way of interacting with each other. That's going to be as crazy as Internet communication and what we're dealing with now. that's going to be another level of crazy because we're essentially going to be telepathic. And that's inevitable. That's in the world. I mean, Elon said that to me. He goes, you're going to be able to communicate with no words. I was like, okay. What does that mean? Yeah. What is that like? What language is it going to be in? Is it going to be in a new universal language? It's very exciting. Yeah. Well, it's very weird.

2:33:17Yeah, it is. Both. We're going to be different. Yeah. I just hope I'm around to experience it. You will be. Yeah. Yeah, it's going to happen fairly quickly. I think it's going to happen within the next couple of decades. The things are going to be unrecognizable. If less than that. Yeah. I mean, that's just being like really charitable. Yeah. That is. It's probably going to be five years. Yeah. I mean, you've talked to enough people that are on the front lines of it, and there is one sort of constant thing that it's sooner than you think. And everyone on the front line is fucking terrifying. I know.

2:33:49All of them. I know. Even the ones that are working towards it They're all like I don't know if this is good I know Strange stuff Hey man I'm glad we did this This was a lot of fun You know real quick It's just fun to see the progression of it It's like I'm here and then like The Elephant Man by the end of it I just see your eyes talking to me It's like I forgot the room and Jamie and the whole thing I understand the gift I get it Well, it's because we're locked in. Yeah, but I get it. I get it because I love watching you have guests on, and then through the time, things just start to shed off, or it gets more awkward, or the rhythm gets off.

2:34:35It's just so fascinating. I'm so honored to be able to be in the seat and experience it. Oh, it's my pleasure. Yeah, it's really, really cool. I'm honored to be able to talk to people like you and to be able to experience, you know, as you're talking, I'm experiencing life through your eyes. I'm getting a better sense of what it is to be a person. And it's just like these little thin layers, like you're building a mountain with one layer of paint at a time. That's it. Yeah. Everything is that. Everything is that. Yeah, everything is that. Yeah, if you're living a good life. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you're definitely living a good life.

2:35:12Oh, thanks, man. It's been a pleasure getting to know you, man. You're cool as fuck. Thanks, Joe. My pleasure. All right. Everybody, is this thing on? It's out now, right? Yeah. It opens tomorrow. Tomorrow. So today, I guess. Today as this podcast comes out. Correct. Yeah. And go check it out. It's awesome. Thanks, man. Bradley, you're the man. Thank you. All right. Bye, everybody.