#2439 - Johnny Knoxville

31:05Don't do it. Just quit, man. Just don't do it. It was like one of the only things where I was like, I wouldn't do it. I'm telling you right now, I would never do this. Were the bulls, were they the bulls that would, because certain bulls, they get upset if you ride them. But after you fall off, they don't try to hook you. Did these bulls try to hook them after they got? They had handlers that steered the bull away from the people. And they did a good job with that. But I mean, who fucking knows? They don't want you on them. They weigh 2 ,000 pounds. They're all muscle. Like the thing was so powerful.

31:39Like you could feel it when it was in the cage. It was just fucking moving around. I was like, don't do this. And they're smart. Like bulls are very smart. That's why unfortunately, you know, in Spanish bullfighting, they kill the bull, which I'm not on board with. But because they learn your movements. You can't make the same movement twice in a row with the bull because they're going to go, oh, OK, I'm going to be you're going to do that. And I'm going to be right here waiting on you. It's unfair. And you can't have anyone move behind the fence when it's on because bulls can easily jump over the fence.

32:21A lot of them just don't know they can. So if you frighten them or provoke them, they're just going to jump over the fence. And then they have like 35 people they can smoke. Yeah, it's when we work with bulls, the set is different. The set is different. The guy, Gary LeFue, who supplies our bulls, he was world champion in 1970. And when we first started working with him, and it stuck with us the whole time, he's like, when we have bulls on the set, I don't want anyone, any kind of negativity going around the set. It's already hard enough with the bull. If there's anyone negative or any negativity, that person's off the set.

33:08Negativity like in what way? Just if there's any like saying negative things or they've had a fight with someone right before. Any kind of negative vibes. No negative vibes. The bull senses negative vibes? Just, well, the whole, everyone on the set senses negative vibes. And everyone has to be completely present and positive for this. Is this voodoo or is this like real science? No, I think it makes total sense, especially when you're doing stunts. When you're doing a stunt that can forever alter you, I don't like any negativity either. Everyone – and also, if you're doing something that can forever alter you, you have to want to be there and want to be doing it.

33:59You can't halfway go into it because then you're really going to get fucked up. So this is just some of it. And this is knowledge you've acquired over time. Yeah. No, that's true. If you like half commit in something that can – you're going to get – yeah, it's bad. it's going to be bad anyway but you you need to want to be there what a bizarre life skill yeah yeah you know what i mean what a bizarre skill i know how to survive doing something you really shouldn't do that could alter you forever stay positive well that's that It doesn't – it's not a guarantee, Joe, but it does – I think it does help.

34:48We did a bunch of other stuff that was not bulls, like with cars and trucks and stuff where I was like, ooh. Like we had a close call once with this lady who was strapped to the front of a truck and she was supposed to go through some sort of an obstacle course. but like they blew through some boxes and the box got on the windshield of the other car and the other car almost slammed into her legs. Yeah. And she was screaming because she thought it hit her and it was like, we were like, what the fuck are we doing? Was that when you guys came back for the second round? Yeah, that was the second round.

35:25Yeah, the second round was sketchy. You know, we had people like getting, they were attached to a tree and they had to figure out which key to unlock them while a bungee cord was attached to them and a helicopter. And so once they got the thing unlocked, they would fucking rock it off of this tree. Up through the limbs. No, no, no. There was luckily it wasn't that. There was no branches that could have got them. But that would have been funnier. It would have been funnier, like through the branches and shit. So they rock it over a fucking giant canyon, like we're on the top of this canyon, and they just went flying while they were being bungee jumped on the bottom of this fucking helicopter.

36:05It was terrifying. They were so high. If anything went wrong, they were dead as fuck. 100 % dead. Oh, man. Yeah. That's sketchy. Oh, there was so much sketchy stuff. And then it ultimately got canceled because they had a drink cum. Did you ever see that episode? No, no. Yeah, that's what sunk us. So there was only two times. What year was, what kind of? Donkey. Donkey cum. Ah. Yeah. That'll do it every time, Joe. Yeah. And they got donkey cum because it's the cheapest cum. Yeah. Yeah. Boars ejaculate 15 ounces at a time. Whoa. So. A wild boar like a pig? Yeah. Really? 15 ounces. That's a lot. Yeah.

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38:49And isn't getting more time with our four-legged best friends something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try The Farmer's Dog today and get 50 % off your first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash rogan. This offer is for new customers only. So that guy's drinking donkey cum and his brother's drinking donkey piss. I'd offer the piss. And I got chugged it. He chugged donkey cum. I'm getting, I'm starting to dry heat. Oh, that's a lot. That was a lot of cum. A black and tan kind of with the piss and the semen wouldn't have been a terrible idea.

39:35It was so nasty. Who were the girls there? Well, they were all twins. It was three sets of twins. And they had to play horseshoes. Like, her mascara. She had to drink the semen too? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And the thing is, three sets of people, three twins, three groups of twins did it. And only one won the money. So two people drank donkey cum and two people drank donkey piss for nothing. You know what the worst part of that is? Semen burps later. Yeah. Just that bleachy smell. that the ladies, like, between the two of them, were fighting over who drank the piss. They wanted to drink. They didn't want to drink the piss.

40:24They were happy to drink the cum. Which I guess tracks. You know, like, been there, done that. Not in that kind of volume, but what's the worst that could happen? Whereas the guys were, like, really trying not to drink the cum, you know? I don't know what they did to decide. Because they had to decide, like, one of them was going to drink cum, One of them is going to drink piss. So that was one of two times where I was hosting this show where I said to the producers, don't do this. Don't do this. I'm like, the show is going to get canceled. They're like, no, we're fine. NBC approved it. They did.

40:58Like they're the bellwethers of good taste. There was a fucking guy on set who was like the NBC standards guy, the standards and practices guy. And I'm like, you're okay with this? Like, this is okay. And they're like, yeah, the network's fine with it. I'm like, this is so fucking—you guys are too close to this. I'm like, you guys are too close to this. You don't understand how the general public's going to react. And then I think what happened—I think it was TMZ, but someone leaked the footage online. Someone leaked images of people drinking, like, fear factor crosses the line. And then the outrage was palpable.

41:36It was like some serious outrage. and then that show never aired in America, but it aired overseas. I think it aired in like maybe the Netherlands or something like that. Right. Killed in Germany. Which is where Fear Factor actually came from. Fear Factor was actually a show in the Netherlands called Now or Neverland. Ah. And then they brought it over to America, Endemol purchased it, and then they changed it to, I think, then they came up with the name Fear Factor after that. That was like one I was already on board. Yeah. Wow. I didn't know that. Yeah. There was virtually no blowback after Pontius drank horse cum in Jackass No.

42:182. Never heard about it. Well, it wasn't on TV at least. There's something about television. Yeah. It was censored, federal communications approved, care factor, and they drank cum. So that got us canceled. That was it. That was like 2011 or something like that, 12. How many seasons did you do? I think we did six or seven initially, and then we did another six episodes, one of them that never aired. Did you help write creative? No, no, no, no, no. You didn't want any prior to that? I had zero. No. What I would do is I'd show up at work. I'd get in my trailer. I'd take an edible. And then I would go to the set.

43:08And I'm like, what do we got? I did the first four episodes I did sober. And I was like, this is so boring. I need to get high. And so I would take pot lollipops and pot gummies and just get fucking lit and then enjoy it. Because then it was like, this is an adventure. What a great gig. Oh, it was a fun gig. Yeah. I had so much fun, too. because all I did was talk. Yeah. You know? Oh, it's easy. I ate a lot of shit. I ate a lot of things to try to encourage people, you know? Because after a while, I got so numb. Oh, you would do the things with them? I'd be like, you could do it. Look, I'll do it.

43:44I'll do it for you. And some of the times when I did it to just try to help people, I'm like, look, I'm going to show you. I'm going to do it, and then you're going to do it. Yeah. And then we didn't even air me doing it because I was like – because they didn't want to make it seem like it was – because I could do it easily because I was so used to disgusting stuff. I could just take a roach and just throw it down. Yeah, yeah. I'd take a worm and throw it down. I'm like, just do it. It's not that hard. It's all in your fucking head. Because I was trying to like. You know, I get it. Like coach people through it.

44:10When I took the job, I'm like, I'm just going to like give people hell, you know, the whole time, you know, and make their fears worse. But then I get to set and there's a human in front of you. And I'm like, I don't know. These are regular people. and they really have fear. So I'm going to try it. I ended up like you trying to help them do it. But I never wanted to do what they were doing for the fact that I never wanted that footage to be seen. Like I'm trying to, you know, like you were just, like you had confidence that they wouldn't show that. And I'm like, ah. They showed a few things. They showed me eating spiders.

44:56They showed me eating a roach. But I ate a lot of stuff that they never saw Right, yeah Or I did some things that they Because I just wanted these people to do it You know, I get it I'm like, you can do it It's in your head I'm like, you just gotta decide Like, your mind has to decide I'm just going to do this Just do it Just go ahead and do it Don't think about Oh my god, I can't believe I'm doing it Just fucking do it Chew, swallow Chew, swallow I would just talk them through it Yeah, yeah And I became like a fucking motivational coach Or something like that That was weird Yeah, that's real because after there was on the first, there was one girl that quit.

45:33She's like, I'm not continuing this bit, this stunt. What was it? Can you say? It was something with snakes, right? And it was a big fear. And after that, I got the cast together, and I'm like, at least always try to do what we're doing. don't don't let it the fear stop you right just always try and after that like everyone even if they're horrified they made an effort and i felt good about that and i think they did too oh that's cool yeah yeah i mean some people but it's sometimes it's good that someone quits so you realize like this is real like some people really like especially snakes snakes tim there's something about a phidia phobia that I think is primal I think it's in your DNA I think either your ancestors were either bitten by a snake and barely survived or someone saw someone die from a snake and that that information is encoded in your DNA because the the fear that people have of snakes is fucking wild.

46:44Like, when they have legitimate aphidiophobia, it is a fucking crazy fear to watch. It's like their whole body locks up, they start shaking. Like, it's not a normal fear. It's like an ancient caveman fear that's locked into their DNA. Like, someone thousands of years ago survived something like this, and that's the only reason why you're here. And every fiber of your being wants to fucking run away from snakes. It's wonderful. It has to be in the DNA. When someone has that, it's like, bam, terrified of snakes. Oh, really? Terrified. And, of course, we use that to our advantage. Of course. Yeah.

47:28Well, we would make people fill out a questionnaire when they would sign up for Fear Factor, like, what are your fears? Heights, snakes, spiders. Well, you're getting heights, snakes, and spiders. I would write tequila, whiskey. Blowjobs. I hate back massages. Yeah, it was fascinating because, like, you know, I had a background in martial arts and teaching. And one of the things that I did when I was younger was I took a lot of people to tournaments. And I coached a lot of people in Taekwondo tournaments, and they'd be fucking terrified. And I learned how to lock in with them and how to get them into a certain mindset, you know, as a coach.

48:08And I'd be like look you're gonna get past this and this is gonna be like one of the highlights of your life because you're absolutely terrified And this fear on the other side will it will be a completely different feeling You'll have a feeling of accomplishment You'll have a feeling of an understanding of knowing that you can overcome very terrifying situations And you can triumph and you could do this like you have skills You just have to be able to go out there and perform and you can do it and I'd get in their head I carried that over to Fear Factor sometimes because there was people that just needed help.

48:43They had never experienced anything that really freaked them out before. They'd never experienced the kind of pressure of not just a competition, but a competition where they're doing something kind of dangerous. They really fucking freaked them out. They have to hold their breath underwater for like two minutes while they swim through a fucking thing. We have rescue divers under there to rescue them. There's panic. And it was like that was one thing that was really satisfying was being able to like take a person who was ready to fucking quit and then they went on and won the whole thing. Yeah.

49:14Yeah. That's that does make you feel good to push someone. Yeah. To the other side. And the survivor's euphoria waiting for you. I heard that. I read about that term. Survivor's euphoria. And I and I realized I'd experienced it. multiple times yeah yeah uh uh there's a you ever heard of colonel john paul stapp no he was a doctor a biophysicist a flight surgeon and he worked with uh chuck yeager and all that uh out at Edwards, it was, it's now Edwards Air Force Base, and they were conducting experiments on what happens to a pilot when they eject at high altitude. And Colonel John Paul Stapp, because these experiments were gnarly, they're on deceleration, they built this huge sled out in the desert, and he would strap himself in because the thinking at the time was, if you're going to do something, a very dangerous experiment, a lot of times people back then would put themselves at the center because they didn't want to.

50:36Of course, they had other people doing it, and he did it most, though. So they would go hundreds of miles per hour, yes. Whoa. Hundreds of miles per hour and stop within eight feet. And at the time, I think they thought you could only experience maybe 18 G's of deceleration. He at one time experienced 49 G's of deceleration. I think it's the most ever that any human is. And he went blind for a little bit. And he knew that was going to happen because he had that happen before in these experiments. and the night before the one where he got 49 g's experience 49 g's he went around his house with his eyes closed uh and just trying to do things like cook and if if he did go blind forever he's one of the most he would he at one time he was known as the fastest man alive on that sled he went faster than anyone at the time he and he's the reason we have seat belts and cars he's one of the most brilliant man of the 20th century he was on the cover of time magazine no one knows who he is today wow um but he talked about survivor's euphoria uh and that's why i learned about it what did he say about it just just the endorphins that get released after going through something like that and that you did survive and it's just it just fills you up And so he knew he was going to go blind and he did it anyway.

52:14He knew that there was a high probability of going blind. And a possibility of being blind forever. Yes. And he was blind for like a couple of days before he started getting sensing light again. Yeah. He's an amazing, amazing person. I did a flight with the Blue Angels once. How was that? It was amazing. First of all, you don't – you never think of, like, that being a physical thing, that those guys have to be physically fit. Oh, yeah. When you go to – when we went to the base, before you, you know, do the whole safety thing, they explain everything, what you're going to have to do, you see, like, that these guys are all fucking jacked.

53:00They're all, like, superheroes. Yeah. It's because they have to – They're not the bigot. They're compact. No, they're short, like me. And they're all, like, thick. They're all, like, fucking jacked dudes. and they were like, well, first of all, you don't want to be tall because it's all about how much time it takes for the blood to get from your heart to your brain. And the shorter distance it has to travel, the better off you are. And you have to be physically strong because you do it. Have you ever done it? You ever done a flight in a fighter jet? No, but we did the vomit comet in Russia. Oh, OK.

53:31But Steve-O went up in a MiG. They do a thing called hooking. So what it is is like you hold on to the joystick or there's straps that strap your legs down as well. You know, like you're really harnessed in. You hold on to your straps. You go like this. Hoot, hoot, hoot, hoot. And what you're literally doing is forcing blood into your brain because you feel consciousness closing like an elevator door. It's like you feel the pressure. Like you're going black. You literally see it. You see the darkness on the side. Yeah. and you're just trying to keep the blood in your brain. We went seven and a half Gs, but the guy in front of me while we're doing this, so you're taking this fucking hot, you're like flying through these canyons.

54:15Like he was going for it. Like he really took me on a ride. It wasn't a safe ride. It was wild. We were like a couple hundred feet off the ground maybe and whipping through these canyons, taking these fucking hard turns. And I heard him going, hoot, hoot, hoot. So I'm going, oh, fuck, he's blacking out too. I'm like, we're going hundreds of miles an hour, just like 100 feet off the ground, whipping through these canyons. This guy's about to fucking black out, too. That's not what you want to hear. It was terrifying, but also, like, super educational. Like, you know, you just see people flying around.

54:48You're like, oh, it's probably like driving a car. No, it's unbelievably physically demanding. And the Blue Angels, they don't use gravity suits, or at least they didn't. They don't use decompression suits? No, it's just a regular flight suit. Well, did they not go up to a certain – what altitude were they performing? Well, it's just a jet. It's a jet. It's not like you have to – like you're not in a spaceship, right? So the whole thing is just about being able to stay conscious. And the thing about the gravity suit is I guess somehow or another it aids your ability to absorb all those Gs. I'm not really educated about it, but I just do know that he said there's ways that you wear suits that make this easier, but they don't wear the suits.

55:31Yeah. I think if you go up to a certain altitude, you have to have the— But this wasn't an altitude thing. Right, right. This was just a G-force thing. It was just the hard turns. It was like the wicked turns at hundreds of miles an hour. And also just thinking about the tolerances of the aircraft itself and the pressure that's on the hull. Because the feeling of being in a jet going hundreds of miles an hour hundreds of miles an hour, and then hitting a hard turn. It's just your whole body just like, fuck! Yeah, and you're just along for the ride. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, they're so skilled to be able to overcome the forces.

56:12He let me do some stuff. Like I got to make the jet do a loop. Oh, wow. I got to get it to roll over, to get it to go upside down and go back over. Yeah, he showed me how to do that. Wow. And you were in control of it? Well, I mean, he's there, too, in case I do something really fucking stupid. I'm sure he has ultimate control. But I have a joystick, too. So I was allowed to do some stuff. Do you think, I mean, they could give you a joystick and not be connected to anything, too. It would make you just feel good. But it was connected. You could clearly tell while you're moving it. Right. Oh, man, that's pretty scary.

56:47It made you want to get one of those things. Like, how dope would it be to have one of those? Get one of those jets? Yeah. Because you can get one of those. If you're like a super rich guy. Well, yeah, you can get one, but you got to, you know. I mean, how much is a, because we looked this up one day. You could buy like decommissioned fighter jets. You know, they don't have any machine guns on them or anything crazy, but you can get a decommissioned fighter jet. If you're like some fucking psychotic billionaire and you got your own landing strip, you could get a fucking fighter jet. Oh, yeah. Which is gnarly.

57:19Yeah, I mean, if you go to Russia, you could probably get one fully loaded. $1 ,500, dog. $1 ,500. 1.5 million. A million. It's a million five. Well, shit. Look at this one. $395 ,000, you get one. What's like a really dope one? It's like, go make it price, okay,$5 ,400. What is that one? For$5 million, what do you get? A 1992 McDonnell Douglas Skyhawk. I mean, for that price, you should get a couple of rockets with it. Come on. Well, I bet you could go to Russia and they'll give you some rockets. Oh, man. Yeah, we shot in Russia and you can literally do anything you want in Russia. They let me get on a military base and shoot missiles out of a cannon.

58:10They took Steve-O up in a MiG. This was back when we were friendly with Russia. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Company. So here we are. It's the new year, which means it's about time to hit reset. Just because it's January doesn't mean you need to disappear into a cold plunge and never drink again. Just rotate in some athletic, non-alcoholic beer. You get the taste, the perfect meal pairing, and the night out, but you wake up without the hangover. With over 185 taste awards, they brew all kinds of styles. IPAs, Goldens, Hazies, you name it. athletic is proud brewed in america and sold at over 75 000 grocery or liquor stores bars and restaurants across the country you can also purchase a variety of limited styles exclusively on their website go to athleticbrewing.com slash rogan to find stores near you or get brews shipped right to your door use code rogan to get 15 off your first online order near beer terms and conditions and certain limitations apply athletic brewing company fit for all times yeah it was like 2005 and it was it was wild um russia we had so much fun do you ever look back on like how surreal like your life has been and all these experiences i feel it a lot uh like when like for example in Russia because growing up like you would do those disaster drills in school in case Russia dropped the bomb and you know oh yeah run out behind your locker and put your head between your legs like that would help if a bomb was dropped yeah but they were such the bad guy and then it was 2005 and I'm now I'm on it and been in movies and I'm over there and that felt very surreal to be in Russia and think about what's happened to my life.

1:00:16There are moments like that. Yeah. Well, it was weird, too, because you got out of it and became a movie star. But then you were doing it again. Like you were right back in. And it kind of started in Russia, actually. We were doing a bit. We'd done a few things over in Russia and we were doing something with the Russian Special Forces. where we were on a, like, we're going to run through this, what do you call it, when there's dogs and... Obstacle course? Yeah, we're on an obstacle course. And they had all these things set up. I'm like, all right, well, I was like, Jeff, why don't you have their attack dog attack me and then shoot me with the rubber bullets and then have the guy kick me in the face when I get to the end.

1:01:16And we shot that, and the dog attacked me, and the Russian guy, the special forces guy, said, I'm not going to kick you in the face. But he did deliver a nice blow to my solar plexus. I had to beg him to do it three times to, like, you know, you got to, like, do it as hard as you can. But Jeff pulled me aside and goes, look, Like, this was just for the TV show Wild Boys. I would travel with them sometimes. He goes, if you're going to go this hard for basic cable, why don't we do another movie? And I was like, all right. How many movies have you guys done? We've done four. And we just announced we're going to do – I just announced we're going to do another – it was going to be out June 26th.

1:02:05Have you filmed it already? No, we're about to film it in February. Oh, dude. Late February. So start then. Yeah. Do you feel apprehension? Do you feel like, no? No. But you can't get a concussion? No, I can't get any concussions, but I mean, I don't care if I break my arm or leg. No one cares about that. It's just I can't have any... You don't care about breaking your arm or your leg? No. Really? No. Really? No. So this is something – this is like a feeling that you've developed this, I don't care. You didn't have that when you first started doing it. I guess there was probably some self-worth issues when I began.

1:02:50It didn't come from a healthy place, Joe. But it's not just that. It's like you don't have a fear of being like radically injured. Because if you blow your knee out or you blow your leg out, you're limping for the rest of your life. I don't. It doesn't bother me. God, I'm so averse to that shit. It's like the producer side of me overrides the performer side. It's like, hey, but we're going to get footage. And it's about as simple as that. So you'll still do dangerous shit. You just don't want to do anything dangerous. I just can't get any concussions. I don't care about, yeah. But if you're going to be in a violent situation where you could break an arm or a leg, you easily could get a concussion as well.

1:03:35Well, you got to assess, Joe. Risk assessment? What the fuck does your waivers look like? Yeah, I don't know. You know, on the first movie, the insurance companies insured it per bit. They didn't insure the whole movie. They just insured it per bit. Yeah, that's how they did with Fear Factor as well. So some bits cost where the insurance was going to be more than the whole first movie. So I can't do those. But after that, we find a shady insurance company and they take care of us. Once you started acting, though, and doing big movies, wasn't there any part of you was like, OK, I'm done with this?

1:04:22No. It was so fun. It's something that I created with my friends. Right. Right. Right, right, right. And then there's probably my wires got crossed somehow. And then I learned to like it. I would love it. You know. I guess it's like a comedian learning to love bombing, right? No one learns to love bombing. Really? I've talked to a couple comedians and they're like, you got to learn to love it and basically not fear it. Yeah. And I kind of did that with stunts, I guess. I learned to – I just liked it. Wow. You ever talk to a shrink about that? Well, while I was doing – I have a therapist, and I'm like, okay, we can talk about everything in my life, but not the part of me that does stunts.

1:05:31Really? Yeah. Because you don't want to fix that part. I didn't want to unwind that, even though it went sideways quite a few times. That's a wild statement. I didn't want to unwind that. Yeah. So I've looked into it a little now that I can't get any more concussions.

1:05:52Don't crush my career. Yeah, right. What a crazy job for the therapist. Yeah. Like the one area where you really probably should address. You know what I mean? You have this, like, overall, what is Johnny Knoxville? What's going on in his head? And there's this one door, yeah, you can't go in that room. Yeah, we can't. The biggest problem we can't address. It's kind of a crazy thing. Yeah. Well, again, I should have went to college. Do you get annoyed having to answer all these questions all the time about that kind of shit? Because after a while, I would imagine that is the most common thing that people would want to talk to you about.

1:06:35How many times have you been hurt? What happened? What is it like? No, I don't. I mean, again, I get the joke. What I would be doing if I wasn't doing this. Yeah. I'm grateful. And so if somebody wants to talk about it, let's talk. Well, you're obviously a smart guy. I don't buy that. You could do anything. well when i started down this road this was my best guess so uh you know it just became something i'm doing uh and yeah i guess i did want to write but i i incorporate that into the movies it was a very strange life johnny yeah i guess yeah for sure um Um, yeah, I kind of, uh, created the environment that I grew up in with my father.

1:07:38He, uh, owned a tire company and he had all these crazy characters working for him. Like people like, uh, big George, ass kicking Robert, this guy SD's named super Dick. one guy named w.w. Woodrow Wilson boxcar johnson jr he was the tire groover who was always getting arrested for one thing or another um and he was always pranking these people that work his people that work for him uh he would stage gunfights at christmas parties what when he did this twice he one year at the christmas party he gave a couple of the guys his employees guns and I said, okay, I want you guys to get an argument, and I want to culminate with you pulling out a gun and firing and you pulling out your gun.

1:08:29They were blank guns. And everyone just – it was in a pretty gnarly part of town too, but everyone just ran out into the streets. Dad was ecstatic. So the next year there are two new employees, and he's like, hey, hey, Merle, come over here. You guys – you're going to get in a fight, and you're going to start yelling, and you're going to pull out guns. And it's the same gag. So they did it and they were very excited and they pulled out the gun, started firing. But dad had given everyone else in the party blank guns. So they started firing back at those dudes. Those dudes take off running down the street.

1:09:05So, yeah, just kind of imitating what my father did, I guess. Did your father feel any responsibility? Dad loved jackass but hated the parts where I would do stunts. My whole family did. Of course. And but they you know, I just doing what I saw growing up, he would send letters to his friends from the VD clinic, rubber stamped on the envelope saying you have to list your last 10 partners because you've contracted a venereal disease sign. Dr. Harlan C. Titmore. But people would get these letters or worse, the guy's wife would get the letter. And the thing about something like that, people become angry and emotional and then they believe everything.

1:09:55That's the great thing about pranks. If you can get someone so wound up that they're really emotional, they'll believe anything. And so these guy would come home from work and And then the mother, like his wife would be there. The wife's mother would be there. He had a gun pulled on him over that once. A real gun? Oh, yeah. Real guns. Your dad sounds like a fucking maniac. He would send letters out from the IRS telling people they're going to be audited. He got visited by the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation over that. He didn't do that anymore.

1:10:37Well, that makes more sense now. Okay, so you grew up in a very unusual environment. Yeah, very unusual. How did your dad get started doing shit like that? I don't know. He just had that personality. He was such a shit starter. He should have been in show business is what should have been, but he used him. Did you ever think about using him? uh he was in one episode uh it when we're doing the tv show my mom and him were in the episode but he he wrote a couple of bits for jack he was like hey i want you to do this and we filmed a couple so he loved that so um yeah he uh i don't know he didn't know how to go about being in show business.

1:11:28Neither did I either. But it seems like he was doing his own, almost like a local play. Yeah. He was doing his own version of it for himself. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Just to entertain himself. I guess you could do that when you're the boss. Yeah. He, uh, like in high school. What a crazy guy to work for. I'd be laying on the couch. I took a nap. You know, it was like a junior, senior or whatever. And I felt something go through my lips. and he went and got a hot dog and microwaved it until it was lukewarm and drugged the hot dog through my lips. And then when I woke up, he acted like he was zipping his pants.

1:12:12He thought, and just him laughing at his own joke just made everything. He thought it was the funniest thing. And then, like, you're on board, too. Yeah. He was a character. Well, that makes more sense now. Yeah. Because I'm like, how does a normal guy dive into something like Jackass? That makes more sense now. You were sort of indoctrinated at an early age. Very early. Some of the shit that made me the most uncomfortable was the Wild Boy stuff. Like, Steve-O showed me a video of him when he climbed a tree and the lions came up the tree and took his hat. Which is disrespectful if you think about it.

1:12:52Just take his hat? fortunate because if they didn't have the hat they might have just grabbed his whole head and just dragged him off you know i mean those were actual lions yeah no they weren't pet lions you're entering into a situation that's unpredictable and kind of hoping for the best is what you're doing and they didn't have any backup plan i mean when you're in a tree and the lions go up the tree to get you, there's nothing really anybody could do to help you. If it gets a hold of you, you're dead. This episode is brought to you by Visible. How many of you are currently listening to this podcast on your phone?

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1:15:04No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. Visit LifeLock.com slash J-R-E and save up to 30 % your first year. That's LifeLock.com slash J-R-E for 30 % off. Terms apply. There's nothing. Like, here's an example of the backup plans we have. We're filming – Steve-O's filming a bit with an alligator on Jackass, and our safety guy, Manny Puig, who dives in swamps at night with the miner's light to pull alligators up to the surface and crocodiles, he's Tarzan. He's Tarzan. He was our safety guy. And it's like, okay, if this goes south, what do we do?

1:15:50Manny goes, okay, we're going to be doing this stunt with the alligator. And if the alligator grabs a hold of Steve-O and bites him, hopefully he will let go. And that was it. That was the whole plan. There's no, like, poke him in the eyes. If the gator doesn't want to let go, he's not going to let go.

1:16:12So... Fuck, dude. Yeah. Yeah. The wild animals ones are the nutty... One of the ones where you guys are playing keep away with hyenas. I keep laughing. They have the strong, like one of the strongest bite in the animal kingdom, maybe like third or fourth. Yeah. What are you going to do? There's nothing you can do. Just hope for the best. Yeah. And they have instincts. Like if you twist your ankle and they see you limping. Oh, yeah. I was doing a thing with, we were in Argentina at this zoo.

1:16:49And we were like, hey, can I get in with the lions? Because there was a couple of keepers in there with it. And they're like, yeah, come on in. And, and they're like, but whatever you do, don't trip and fall. I'm like, oh shit. And so I, I got on a bike and started riding around the pen and, and they're like, if we give you a signal, you gotta. And so I'm riding around the pen. They're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Get down. Get off. Get up. Cause the lion locked in on me and was about to attack me. And they hurried me out of the pen. And afterwards they're like, yeah, that was the first time anyone, besides from us, has been in the pen with them.

1:17:30And it's also mating season. So he's very aggressive. I'm like, well, I wish he'd have told me that before I got in there. Well, I still would have went in there, but it was a real half-ass type of situation. It's just like you guys just have avoided death over and over and over again. Yeah, we've been lucky.

1:17:53But, like, that's a fucked up way to go through life. I guess, but... We had a ball. Waxing philosophically. I don't know, man. It just... That's what we were doing. And for sure you entertain the fuck out of millions and millions of people who laughed their asses off and had a great fucking time watching. I get, I don't know why, but I get anxiety. I have a really hard time watching those things. Yeah. I avoid them. Like a lot of my friends are like, we're going to see Jackass. I'm like, I don't, I can't. I get freaked out. I don't want anybody to get hurt. It's weird. Yeah, I feel that way when, like, one of the guys is doing something, like, pretty gnarly.

1:18:41I'm not ecstatic over watching something that could have a forever consequence. But with me, I don't know. I'm just like, let's go. I just, it's, I just, it's fun. I know, but even after you have a family and even after, you know, you have kids that are watching their dad get fucked up. Well, that's the thing. I wouldn't. I didn't want my kids to see that, you know, but they had at a certain age. Like I didn't let my oldest daughter. She can watch things with Wee Man or this or that. And but I didn't let her come to a movie until she was 14. I made her sit right next to me. And I said, Madison, there are sometimes you have to close your eyes, sometimes cover your ears and sometimes both.

1:19:28and I had the list of bits. And so it was, I censored it even then. But now it's the internet. It's a fucking free-for-all. Yeah. So I guess my younger kids, I think, you know, they saw it a little earlier. I only showed my son like a year ago and my daughter six months ago. What was his reaction? He was on board.

1:19:57my youngest daughter she thought a lot of things were funny but i don't know i i guess i don't know what how she felt because they only my youngest only saw the first jackass movie which is pretty tame compared to the others looking back it's pretty innocent even though ryan dunn shoved a car up his ass to get an x-ray a little toy car did you see that bit yes Yeah, that one worked Do you worry that they're going to follow in your footsteps? No Well, I have daughters and they're just naturally more bright And my son, he would joke about it to his mom But he's not going to, he's bright too They have options.

1:20:54I had – I didn't see a lot of options for myself. It's weird that you said that like your daughters are bright because girls are definitely more risk-averse and like ridiculous situations like that. Think things through. If it – I have a way harder time watching girls get hurt. Yeah. Yeah. I don't – I don't – we had a girl on the show. she, like,

1:21:28broke her lower back. She was doing a thing. We were doing a, just a, it was a pretty tame stunt compared to the ones we do. She was going down, like, it was grass, but it was like a big hill on a, like some kind of rubber raft. And she had her lav mic at the lower, on her lower back. and she came off and that was the impact area and for the longest and it really was a bummer for everybody you know and i'm like i don't i didn't have we didn't have a female cast member for a long time what was the extensive extent i it was it was she was in the hospital for a little bit she's fine now i just saw her at the jackass art show in november and she's fine but it sucked You had a jackass art show?

1:22:21Yeah, yeah. Because it was our 25th anniversary last year, and I'm like, let's have an art show. We have some cast members and crew members who are good artists, and I'm like, let's reach out to some big artists to see if they'll do it. It's the first time I ever curated an art show. I was like, fuck, I'm going to reach out to Damien Hirst to see if he'll do it. And he ended up doing 10 pieces of art for it. I was like, wow. I was really blown away by the good vibes that we got from everyone over it. Yeah, because you guys didn't just create a show. You created a chapter in modern pop culture history.

1:23:18Really? Because it became one of the most entertaining things ever and one of the most ridiculous things ever. Wow. Yeah, that's tough to – I never really walked down those roads. Yeah, I don't know. I appreciate you saying that though, but it's odd to entertain that thought. Especially if you see Bea and Tremaine sitting around writing ideas, you're like, these two idiots did that? Like, if you could see how we shoot, it's just you. It's amazing we get any footage at all, Joe. Jeff Ross came out with this on Jackass No. 2. We were doing some bit and some prank with me and Spike as old people.

1:24:13And me and Spike would, we would like hit bus stops and anywhere where there is people. And we would jump out and start doing pranks before the cameras even arrived. And it was driving Jeff insane. He's like, you guys shoot a movie like it's a pickup basketball game. And he just roasted us for about five minutes straight. And it was all accurate. It's like, it's amazing we get any footage. Yeah, but that's the spirit of it, is that you're doing it for fun. So you would be doing it if the cameras were on or not. You're doing it for yourselves as much as you're doing it for the camera. Oh, for sure.

1:24:51Yeah. Which is why it's so good. I don't know how to make other people laugh, right? If I'm writing a bit, that would freeze me. But I know how to make my friends laugh. And if they're laughing, I think, eh, we may have something. And that's the only bellwether. Like if you do something like in the magic trick with the bull, we did that twice. Because the first time, the first bull just came and didn't really knock me up in the air. It just got me on the ground and just started plowing me, stomping me. And I got up and everyone was looking at me like, eh. I'm like, all right. And I looked at Jeff, and he's like, I'm like, all right, bring the other bull in.

1:25:42That sucks. Take two with bulls always sucks. You're hoping you get that first one. Oh, God. The things with animals are the ones I think that freak me out the most. So Wild Boys was the hardest one for me to watch. I really struggled with that show. Yeah. The one that I, Jeff and I got in a half argument over, I was in Arkansas shooting the riot control test. Me, Bam, and Dunn were standing in front of the riot control. Shoots like 10 ,000 hard rubber beads at you. We were shooting that. And they were in New Orleans about to go out and put a hook through Steve-O's jaw, chum up the waters and cast him out to the water with sharks.

1:26:31I'm like, what are we doing, Jeff? What's the best possible outcome here? He's like, oh, no, no, it's fine. It's fine. I'm like, we're going to get his foot bit off? It's fine. and it ended up being fine but I was questioning the bit and it's a great bit. The shark goes to bite his foot and Steve-O kicks him at the last second and scares the shark away. Oh. Yeah, it was just dumb luck. And he had a hook through his mouth? Yeah. I never saw that one. It was like a big... Oh, you're not gonna... Look at that. Oh my God. It took him like 15 minutes to get that hook through his mouth. Oh. And the thing about it, they shot it the day before and it didn't go good.

1:27:17So there's a hole on the other side of his jaw, too. You just can't see it. This is so fucking stupid. Yeah, yeah. Thank you.

1:27:32Oh, my God, dude. Yes, he's. Oh, yeah, it was going for him. And then he kicks it and got him back in. That would have been bad. That would have been forever bad. Old peg leg Steve-O. And he's like mentoring young guys that are doing it too. Like last time he was on, he was showing, yeah, let me show you this one guy that I'm hanging out with. Yeah, dude. This guy's running through barbed wire. I'm like, what the fuck? This guy's radical. He's covering himself in firecrackers. I'm like, no. Oh, I know. That's Zach. We got him in the cast. He, yeah, he's pretty up for it. How bad is he fucked up?

1:28:17Yeah, I mean, have you seen, he was doing some trick on a skateboard, and he was a rather Rubenesque young fellow, and he just compound fractured his ankle. I don't think you would like that one at all. Popped through the skin, the whole deal? I'm not sure it popped through the skin, but it was doing things that ankles shouldn't do. What a weird life you've lived, dude. Yeah. Very strange. It's been okay. Yeah. No, I mean, look, you're fine. Yeah, no, it's odd. I get it. I get it. What are you laughing at, Jamie? I just saw the injury here. Let me see. Okay, here he goes. And three. Oh.

1:29:08I guess that was more his shin. Oh, that's his tibia and his fib. Oh, yeah. That's both of them. Yeah, that's the Conor McGregor right there. Yeah, look at the sack ass on Instagram. The Joe Theismann. Yeah, that's the Anderson Silva. I've seen a few of those. Those are the most painful things I've ever seen in UFC fights. Yeah. The things that really bother me are the leg breaks. When someone throws a kick and the kick gets checked and you see their leg wrap around the shin. The Anderson Silva one was very disturbing. Oh, that was horrible. It's crazy. It's only happened four times in the history of MMA or in the history of the UFC, and two of them involve Chris Weidman.

1:29:47One, Chris Weidman did it to Anderson Silva, where Anderson Silva broke his leg, and then Chris Weidman broke his leg in the exact same way against Uriah Hall. Oh, I don't know if I saw the one against Uriah Hall, Uriah Hall was so loud because what he did was it was the first kick he threw. It was the first round of the fight. He threw a full power low kick, and Uriah checked it, and you hear it just snap. Do the headphones work? Can we hear it? No, no, unfortunately. They're still fucked? Good. Good. You don't need to hear it. But here it is. Full power. Correct. Oh. Yeah. Whoa. Whoa. Oh. And then he puts his foot down.

1:30:30That doesn't look real. Yeah, he was never the same again. Yeah, you can't come back from that, right? No. I mean, guys, they don't really come back. You know, Conor McGregor hasn't fought again since. I mean, he's throwing kicks with it. I've seen him spar with it. I mean, there's one guy who is a heavyweight in the PFL that apparently came back and continued his career. So you can find who that guy is. There's a heavyweight guy who was in the PFL that snapped his shin like that and then came back and kept fighting. Weidman's had some fights since then, and he's actually even thrown that kick since then.

1:31:10Yeah, but I don't think you're the same. Yeah, that would mentally get to you. Well, one leg now weighs more, right? Right. Even if it's titanium, there's more screws. There's a bunch of shit in there. and then I've got to think that it feels different. There's no way. And then there's the psychological thing. Like you've already been through, I mean, I think Chris had to go through some insane amount of surgeries, multiple surgeries to try to correct it and to fix it because it didn't take right the first time was, you know, you're hoping the bones grow back together. You got a rod and then screws and then you're hoping the bone fuses all around it.

1:31:53And in some circumstances, They have to make a decision whether or not they go back in another time and take all the supporting stuff out and just have your bone exist normally. Yeah. And you don't want – and then it's like the risk of infection. Oh, yeah. It's fucking gnarly. Yeah. Yeah. I have the hardest time. But I have a harder time watching women get fucked up than I do men. You know, maybe it's the sexist in me or whatever it is. The UFC fights with women, they go for it. I mean, the men go for it, but it just seems like the women are just extra aggressive. Well, it just seems crazier when they're doing it, when they're beating the fuck out of each other for whatever reason.

1:32:33Like there's a fight that happened at the UFC sphere when they did it at the sphere in Vegas. We had one event there. And there's this lady, Irene Aldana, who's a beast. And she got a cut in her forehead that I can't believe the referee didn't stop the fight. because it looked like someone hit her in the face with an axe. Her entire forehead was split wide open. Blood was pouring out of her face. That's it right there. Look at that. Oh, my goodness. She's marching forward, throwing bombs where blood is splattering. Like blood splattering with every punch that lands on her face. And she's moving forward, throwing bombs.

1:33:18It was fucking crazy. Yeah, she's a warrior. Oh, my God. I mean, that's the beginning of the cut. The cut got even worse than that. It was horrible at the end. I mean, it was fucking massive. It had to be like a six-inch cut on her forehead. That's insane. Well, you could, like, see the whole skull. Yeah. Like, when I was interviewing her, when I was talking to her after the fight, you could see her whole skull was, like, exposed. Yeah. You know, when we're talking about the last doing Jackass Forever, we're talking about getting new cast members and talking about bringing on some females. Look how crazy that is.

1:33:55And I was a little—that's insane. Insane. That's insane. And I was a little hesitant. And then my assistant, Megan, and I'm talking to other—they're like, look, guys do it. It's like women can do it. and I was forced to address it and let go of it. And I'm like, all right. Who was saying guys do it, women can do it? Was it a guy or a girl? No, my assistant Megan. And a couple of other friends that are women. And they're just like, you got to stop looking at it that way. And I said, all right. And I just moved forward and we got Rachel Wolfson and she was fantastic. I love Rachel. She's at the club all the time.

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1:36:21Rated PG. Is there a photo of a Rainy Aldana's face now? See what it looks like if it's all healed up? It bothers me, man. I don't know why. Did she, uh, how many? That's not real. That's a filter. That's an Instagram filter, dog. There's no way. That's an avatar. That's what she looks like now? After the scar? No. That's not possible. That's an avatar, right? Well, it's not possible that that went away. See, Google or run a search of Rainy Aldana after the surgery. That's like two weeks ago. Yeah, but that's all. Well, there's makeup. I don't know. Yeah, makeup and filter. That's what she looks like.

1:37:02Okay, there you go. There you go. You can see. Go back there. Say that again. You can kind of see in the beginning. Yeah, yeah, when the light hits it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there you go. You can see it right there. Yeah. Wow. That looks pretty good. I mean, you can see it, but it gives her character. Well, for a man, that's pretty dope, right? I don't know. Badass. It looks like she's pretty okay with everything. She's a beast. Yeah. You know? It's an unusual woman that is not just willing to do that and get her face cut open like that but also like march forward in a mask of blood like a fucking horror movie throwing bombs and she was cut over her eye her nose was split open giant cash on her forehead and just marching forward so and they did and who and she was fighting uh who is she fighting and did they have a rematch because i assume the judge the the referee called it no no it went the decision yeah she lost the decision what they could the doctor they go over the doctor he looks at you He was like, ah, you'll never notice on a galloping horse.

1:38:04Get back in there. I don't know. I don't know what the referee was thinking because referees have stopped fights for less injuries. Oh, yeah. It's very subjective. Usually when it goes from your eyebrow to the top of your skull. It's very subjective. Like one referee or one doctor will say, let it go. And then another doctor will go, it's over. And if the doctor says it's over, it's over. But a referee inspected it when it split up her head. Oh, yeah. They wiped it down. They allowed her to continue. Yeah, she got cut. Who is that referee who looked at it and said, yeah, you're fine. Get back in there, kid.

1:38:37See if you can find video of it while it's happening. Look at her nose. The nose would have stopped the fight. Nose is destroyed. Forehead's destroyed. I don't remember what she got hit with. Most likely an elbow that did that. Who is she fighting? Norma Dumont. Norma Dumont. Norma Dumont's a beast, too. And who won? Norma did. Norma won. But what did she... like, see if we can find a video of it. The video of it is gnarly. Because, like, and we're freaking out because we're doing the commentary. We're like, oh, my God, this lady is a savage. What round did that happen in? That's a good question.

1:39:12I want to say it was the second round, but I don't totally recall. Oh, my God. What did you just have? You just had it. It was a video game. Oh, it's a video game. The video games are so good. You can't tell the difference now. That's the problem. You're just like the fight in the video game. Yeah. But, again, I don't know why. It's like when a woman gets knocked out, it bugs me way more. I'm so used to guys getting knocked out. Yeah. When a guy gets knocked out, I'm like, I hope he's okay. But when a woman gets knocked out, it's like my stomach turns. I'm like, ugh. You're sitting there in your commentary chair.

1:39:48You're just like, oh, fuck, man. When someone gets shinned in the head, just bang, and you see them stiffen up. But, like, there's something about a woman getting knocked out that I don't know why. Yeah. My brain is like, no. Yeah. I'm so used to men getting knocked out. Yeah. Well, I mean, it looks like, I mean, you've seen a lot of fights. I've probably seen more people get the fuck beaten out of them than anybody who's ever lived. Yeah. In person. Like, in person, watching elite fighters smash each other. I've probably seen more people get pummeled than anybody. Yeah, I wonder the number of knockouts you've seen.

1:40:28Oh, it has to be in the thousands. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how many fights I've called. I've started doing commentary. Well, I started doing post-fight interviews in 1997. Wow. Yeah, so that was the first. I worked at UFC 12 in 1997. Now we're at like UFC 324. And I've been there for a large percentage of them. I hate to pivot, but what do you think of Fedor? I love him. I love him. He's one of the all-time greats. He was one of my favorite fighters of all time. The great tragedy is Fedor never fought in the UFC against Cain Velasquez because they were both in their prime at the exact same time, and they could have made that happen.

1:41:11I love Fedor. Oh, he was amazing. The pride fights, Tremaine and I, every time the pride fights were on, we'd always watch Fedor. And dude, he was stoic. I mean, stoic. Like, dead-faced no matter what was going on. It could be the most chaotic, insane fight. Getting blasted in the face. Never changed his expression like a fucking robot. Before the fight, all the fighters are jumping up and down, looking around, and he looks like he's about to fall asleep. Yeah. Oh, he was amazing. His mindset was fucking impenetrable. Remember when Kevin Randleman suplexed him? Oh, yeah. On his head. And I've never seen someone get suplexed on their head and not only push through it, but he submitted him pretty soon afterwards, right?

1:41:59Yeah, yeah. He got him in an arm bar, like, very shortly after that. That still doesn't make any sense to me. Oh, he was a freak. He was a freak, man. Look at his face. Look how calm he looks. Yeah. Here it is. So he gets slammed. Oh, my goodness. And just rolls. Just rolls right into it. I mean, that could have knocked most people completely unconscious. Could have separated your vertebrae. And look, he's still, look how strong. And he reversed the position like seconds later. And Randleman was good on the ground. Oh, fuck yeah. Randleman was a world-class wrestler. But look at that. And a beast.

1:42:35But Fedor was special, man. He was special. And this is like Randleman's wearing wrestling shoes, too. He was allowed to wear wrestling shoes. Pride had a lot of crazy rules. That left of Fedor's. Oh, everything, man. Everything. He was the most complete. So he pins down the arm and he eventually catches him. I think he caught him in a Kimura. A Kimura or a straight arm lock. It might have been. Yeah, here it is. He caught him in a Kimura. Here it is. I mean, that's insane. Insane. Within a minute, he. Turned it around. Well, he was the most complete out of all those guys. because he was a guy that could fight you standing up at an elite level, but also in any kind of wild scramble.

1:43:17He would catch an armbar off of his back. He would submit you on the ground. He could throw you. He could do everything. He was the most complete out of all the heavyweights of his era. Yeah, I remember when he was fighting Noguera, I was like, oh, no, this is – it could go south for Fedor. You thought so? I was worried. Yeah. You know, because you look up to a fighter and you're like, he can't lose. I don't want him to lose. And I was worried about Noguera, but he beat him twice, right? Yeah, and they were brutal. The ground and pounds were fucking brutal. When he was on top of Noguera, just bombing on him.

1:43:52Yeah, I'm like, Fedor, don't go to the ground with Noguera. Because I'm just worried. I'm like, his aunt or something. But no problem. No, he was awesome. them you know that but there's a time where a fighter can operate under that peak form and it's a short window you know and i always say when you're looking at the greatest of all time you have to look at them in that peak window you can't look at them when they're fighting in their late 30s and they probably shouldn't be fighting anymore yeah you gotta you gotta judge them based on who they were in their prime because every combat sport athlete has a limited amount of time where they can operate in their prime.

1:44:32Yeah. And Fedor in his prime was about as good as anybody who ever lived. I love hearing you say that. Yeah. Because I really... Fucking amazing. Yeah. But it's like when we had Kane in the UFC, Kane Velasquez, who was another superhuman freak, also super stoic, and had cardio like no heavyweight ever, like freakish God-given cardio. And they'd call him Cardio Kane because he would just put a pace on guys where you'd see the look on their face. And it was like the second round, like, I can't do this. Yeah, and he's just ready to go. Just not even out of breath, just smashing you over and over and over again, picking you up, slamming you down.

1:45:14Like what he did to Brock Lesnar. Brock Lesnar was fucking terrifying. He was a 300-pound man who was built like a Viking. Like he just hopped off of a fucking ship with a battle axe. Yeah. And Kane beat the fuck out of him. I know. That was an amazing fight. And I watched Brock Lesnar body slam Wee Man through a table at a restaurant one night. It was one of the best things. Was that on Jackass? No, no. We were there to do—I was going to do WrestleMania. I believe it was WrestleMania against that low-down and dirty Sami Zayn. And we're at the restaurant—I think we're at Four Seasons in their restaurant.

1:45:55and we all had a couple of drinks and Brock just comes by. He's leaving. He comes by to say goodbye, you know, and Wee Man gets a little chatty. Wee Man got a mouth on him. So Brock just scoops him up like a baby. And he goes, you're going through that table and just lifts him up over his head and bam, right through the table. It was one of the best things I've ever seen. It looked like one of those tables in an Old West bar fight. Yeah, this is it. He's like, no, we missed. Like, no, no. Oh, Jesus Christ. That's a regular table, too. Oh, yeah. That's what you get for talking shit to Brock Lesnar.

1:46:42It doesn't really compute in his head, I don't think. Brock is a guy that like you know he was NCAA division one national champion like elite wrestler I always wondered what would happen with him if he didn't go into pro wrestling for so long if he just went into MMA right out of his college career I think he could have been one of the all-time great what are you going to do with that guy if he's been training for that long well he didn't train much in striking at all like you could tell in the early days his striking was He was learning it. Obviously an elite athlete, a freak of nature physically, but he was still learning striking, and striking is something that takes a long time to really get a mastery of.

1:47:24Oh, yeah. He wasn't, you know, so he was just fighting. He didn't need the money, didn't need to do it, was already a giant pro wrestling star, could have just stayed Brock Lesnar, but just decided I want to see what would happen if I fight for real. He liked it. He beat a lot of really fucking good guys. Yeah. Which is kind of crazy. He beat Randy Couture, who's an all-time great. Yeah. He beat Frank Mir, who's, you know, an all-time great. He's a freak athlete. Oh, he's fucking horrific. Horrific dude. Who's the young guy? Gable Stevenson? Oh, yeah. I think he's a problem. His striking looks good.

1:48:05Giant problem. His striking looks good. He's a giant problem because he's a 250-pound man that moves like a 150-pound man. He's so fucking fast and so athletic for a big guy and elite wrestling skills. I mean, gold medalists in the Olympics are wrestling skills. That kind of wrestling skill is, like, so hard to fuck with. Yeah. He's got that and ridiculous power and speed in his hands. And just this, there's a mindset that some guys have, elite athletes have, this unstoppable drive and discipline. And he's got that. He's going to be—I sent Dana White a text message because he had an MMA fight and hit this dude with a left hook.

1:48:52And then as the dude's going out, he fucking slams him to the ground. He landed the punch and he had enough speed to close the distance and fucking slam him to the ground while he's unconscious from the punch. Yeah. And I sent Dana White a text message. I said, everybody's fucked. I just sent him that clip. I sent him, I sent Dana the same clip. Did you really? Dana, what are we doing here? Gable's the first guy that I've ever had in the studio that isn't even in the UFC yet. that has had a couple fights where I was like, I want to have this guy on right away. Look at that. Like, fucking, that speed is so insane.

1:49:33Look at that, the transition between he KOs him with a left hook, and then look at this, just hops to the top of the octagon. But go back to the knockout, because look at the guy when he's on, you can see the birdies flying around his head in that one angle on the opposite angle. I mean, that is crazy speed. and then blast him with a punch all before the referee can even get to him. That dude's like, what the fuck just happened? Yeah. And he has a hard time getting fights. He'll probably be in the UFC quicker than he should be because no one wants to fight him. It's on the regional circuit, the smaller promotions, very difficult to get a guy like that to fight because you can't beat him.

1:50:12You know you can't beat him. So you've got to be the type of guy almost like you are with stunts. Like, all right, let's fucking do it. Let's see what happens. That's what you need. Because you're not fast enough to avoid the punches. You're not skillful enough to stop the takedown. You can't do anything about it once he's on top of you. You're not getting back up. You're just going to get pummeled. Like, what are you going to do? And some guys are just so gangster. They're like, let's see how I do. You're just standing in front of a colt tree. But most guys are going to not fight. You're going to get that offer, and you're going to go, fuck that.

1:50:41I want to be a world-class fighter someday. I've got to get better. There's no way I'm going to get better. If I fight that guy, I realize how tall the mountain actually is that I'm supposed to climb. But to any prospective fighters of Gable Stevenson out there who maybe don't want to fight them, take it from me. It doesn't take that long to get knocked out. It's going to be an easy night. You know, it's going, what, 15 seconds of your time? That's not the problem. The problem is, so like in boxing, okay, this is a good – so boxing has always traditionally done a way better job of preparing fighters for world-class fighters.

1:51:19So even Mike Tyson who was a phenom in his prime he fought a bunch of journeymen in the beginning. Mitch Blood Green. Well, he was good. Mitch Blood Green was good. Mitch Blood Green went to decision. Yeah. I mean he was a gang leader and he was a crazy person. Not just a street fight. No, in the street fight Mike fucked him up. But he also broke his hand in the street fight in a haberdashery in Harlem. Which is crazy. Slipped into alliteration. Yeah. I mean they fought in a haberdashery. They fought in a place where you get custom suits made. And why wouldn't you why wouldn't yeah, so? That fight was like Mitch blood green was a he was a real pro.

1:51:56He was a really elite fighter You want but you go to the early days of Mike Tyson where he's fighting guys that have fucking zero business being in there with yeah And these guys just took the payday and just got knocked into orbit And those fights are some of the most fun fights to watch because you realize you're dealing with a guy who's gonna be one of the all-time greats. And you're getting to see him when he's 19 and no one had any idea what was coming. You know, like some of his first fights, people had heard rumblings. There's this kid out of the Catskills. Everybody talked about it. But until you saw him, you're just like, oh, God, good Lord.

1:52:33Just all business, too. All business, no socks. Just the towel with the hole in it. And it just, it was throwback. Yeah, it was. But there was never a throwback fighter, like, that had just a towel over, you know, his head walking into the ring. Well, you'd have to go back to, like, the Jack Dempsey days, which Tyson did. See, Tyson had this advantage that his manager was Jim Jacobs, and Jim Jacobs was a boxing historian. And so Jim Jacobs had all these films of all the old school fighters. Sandy Sadler. Yeah, he's a big. Billy Pep, yeah. And so Mike would just sit and watch all these great fighters, all the old school guys, all the old Joe Louis fights on film, all the Sugar Ray Robinson fights.

1:53:22Which there are not a lot on film. I wish there were because we never have prime Sugar Ray Robinson. Like there's not a lot of films. Well, you can watch them on YouTube. But I don't think like prime, prime. I think after a certain – Oh, no. There's some prime Sugar Ray Robinson. Yeah, you could watch some great Sugar Ray Robinson KOs that are on. Yeah. He was another guy. I mean, I think he had like 90 fights. I think it was something like 90 and 0 before he had his first loss. And then he went another 40 fights before he lost the second. Crazy. Insane. Crazy. And they were fighting all the time back then.

1:53:59Yeah. Those guys would fight multiple times in a year. It wasn't like today where, you know, guys like Canelo and Crawford, they talk about it. Crawford hadn't had a fight in like a year and a half. Yeah. It wasn't like that back then. They'd fight a few times a month. Constantly. Yeah. But also, you know, then the end is so sad because in the end, Sugar Ray Robinson had dementia and it's like he couldn't talk. There's some interviews of him later in life that are really, really fucking sad. Yeah. So that's the thing about a guy fighting Gable Stevenson. It's not that Gable's going to beat you and getting knocked out is not that bad.

1:54:34It's that your confidence is going to be destroyed and you will get knocked out easier next time, which is the problem with getting knocked out. Yeah, the glass. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can attest to that. Is it to happen to you now? Like will you get KO'd easier? I get my knockouts. I got knocked out easier. Yeah. It's the old glass jaw. You notice the difference? Yeah. I mean, I could watch the impacts afterwards, and that might not have got me five or six years ago, but now it's just. You just go out. Yeah. How many times do you think you've been KO'd? About 16. Wow. That's a lot. Yeah. Have you ever gotten, like, brain scans done?

1:55:21Yeah. What do they say? Well, you know. They're not the best brain scans they ever looked at. I didn't win any awards for my brain scan, Joe. They're like, don't get any more concussions. But did they say there's anything going on there that you need to be concerned about? Well, they don't know about, you know, you can't detect CTE until post-mortem. Right. But do you have any lingering issues like memory issues, impulse control?

1:56:01I don't know whether it's I'm getting older. I can remember a lot of things from my childhood and that kind of thing. I have complete recall. But what I did a week ago, it's up in the air. And do you think that's connected to the head injuries? or is it just like aging because you get older well there's the million dollar question right so you seem okay yeah which is part of the problem like i know a lot of fighters that seem fine but i know publicly or privately they're struggling yeah i know they have like issues you know yeah I'm I after that that would the magician when I kind of went offline for a few months but I I completely recovered went offline like how so just slowly over a period of months I just got super depressed and anxious and fearful of everything uh just in my mind it was just a loop of everything bad and is going to happen is catastrophic thinking and ruminating and uh yeah it was my creative mind turned against me right uh and it was it was frightening it felt like you're in the bottom of a well looking up and eventually i got on some medication and what kind of medication they give you for that oh shit i can't remember um but after a couple of months on or actually about four to six weeks on the medication i the colors came back and i started feeling like myself again.

1:58:03Did you lose sight of colors? Did you get colorblind? No, that was just... Metaphorically? Okay. And then I went off the medicine and I'm fine, but it was, yeah, it was pretty intense. So did they do anything for that? Like, I know there's some different therapies they do for people that have... I did a thing, a transcranial magnetic stimulation. Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you about. And I started that, and it was kind of I was in the middle of my episode, and I started that. You do it over like six to eight weeks. I can't remember. And I remember at the first, I'd start it, and I'd talk to the guy running it.

1:58:48But by the end, the end of the eight weeks, I was just kind of I wouldn't look at him. I wouldn't talk to him. And, yeah, I was just completely in my head all the time. So it got worse progressively then? Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it got worse. But, yeah, the just medication and I came out of it. Well, I'm glad you came out of it. Yeah. But that's a good reason to not do that kind of shit anymore. Yeah. That's why I was like, I can't, I don't, it was. It's too much. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's what I worry about with fighters because, like, listen, you and I are sitting here. We're talking. You're not slurring your words.

1:59:33You seem fine. Everything's – there's fighters that you see the slurring and you see the mumbling of the words and yet they're still fighting. Yeah, that's like Ollie at the end. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When he's doing those interviews around the Leon Spinks fights and – Oh, yeah. You know, even Larry Holmes was sparring with them. They could notice the difference. Yeah, yeah. But it's like you... How do you – it's tough to figure out how to – he has a certain spirit about him and how do you outrun that? Which made him a champion. Yeah, how do you outrun that? How do you put that light out? And that's the problem.

2:00:24I think you have to plant that seed in a fighter's head when they're young. I don't think you could tell them that this is going to be a ride that lasts forever. I think you have to tell them there's going to be a time when we realize we have to stop this. We have to stop doing this. And you're going to have to trust me. Yeah. Because I'm on the outside. And I'm going to watch you very carefully. And we're going to make sure that you never get to a point where you're – I like a fighter that retires and they can talk and they're fine and they're good. I like that. I like when a guy gets out. Like Andre Ward is one of my favorite fighters because not just was he a two-division world champion, not only was he an elite boxer, but he retired undefeated and never came back, and now he's fine.

2:01:14He does commentary. You're hanging out with him. He's got no lingering problems. He's good. Like he got off the right time. I like that. Yeah, I often think where would – it's a little – sort of a pivot. But where would Roy Jones Jr. be ranked if he retired after the Ruiz fight? Right. After he became heavyweight champion? It's a very good question. I think that was one of the biggest mistakes that he ever did was going up to heavyweight and then going down to 175 again. To fight Trevor. Right. Because he wasn't a heavyweight that was fat. It wasn't like he could lose 25 pounds of extra fat that he put on.

2:01:53No, he was shredded at 200 pounds and then lost 25 pounds of muscle. So he had to starve himself to get back down to 75 again. Because once your body gets accustomed to carrying around all that extra weight, like that's your new frame. And today they would never say do that again. Like in the UFC, there's been some guys that had some radical weight cuts, like Alex Pereira is probably the best example. But once he went down to 185, He was cutting a tremendous amount of weight to get to 85. But once he went up to 205, now he's a 205er. He stays at 205. And now he's even talking about going up to heavyweight, which is crazy.

2:02:30Right. But he's got the frame for it. But if he went all the way up to heavyweight and then tried to go all the way down to 85 again, he would be so fragile. You're so vulnerable. If you get hit, the guys who dehydrate themselves significantly, they get KO'd way easier. Yeah. And guys will tell you that. Like when they cut the weight, they can't take a punch. It's just different. Because your brain doesn't rehydrate in time. So if you're dehydrating to make, let's say, 170. If you're dehydrating to make 170 but you really weigh 200, you can get down to 170 for the weight. But once you rehydrate and you're 200 again for the fight, you don't have water in your brain yet.

2:03:12Yeah. Your brain takes days before it completely rehydrates. It's dangerous. It's very dangerous. Yeah. But so that's the thing. It's like you're talking about all the problems that you have, but yet you're sitting here. You're not slurring your words. You're laughing. You're coherent. We're having a good time. And think about these guys that you see that start mumbling and their words all kind of slurred together. Yeah, yeah. It's weird. You have a hard time understanding them. The fits of rage. Yes. They 100 % should not be fighting. Yeah. And yet they're still fighting. And athletic commissions will even pass them.

2:03:49Does Vandale Silva still fight? Does he slur? Dude, Vandale Silva just had a boxing match in Brazil that turned into a brawl. So he was boxing this guy, and a bunch of people jumped into the ring and started brawling. And one of the guys that jumped into the ring KO'd him, hit him with a bare knuckle punch and knocked him out cold where he falls back and bounces, and they have to drag him out of the ring. So while people are, there's a melee. There's like 10 people fighting inside the ring, and he's stretched out cold. Here, watch it. I'm trying to find a good version of it. You can find it. He was amazing in the pride fight.

2:04:35Oh, he was a fucking warrior, a savage. He was so crazy. But that's another guy that's been KO'd so many fucking times. I don't speak Portuguese, but my friends who do say you can clearly tell the difference. So here's the fight. So this is afterwards. Boom. He gets KO'd. Oh, my God. The back of the canvas. This guy just cracks him with a right hand. He doesn't even see it coming. And he's out cold, flat on his back. And then they just have to drag him away from all these people fighting, which is crazy. Oh, that's sad. He's dead. Dead out cold. Oh, my God. Yeah. And again, this is a guy that's he got knocked out by Mirko Krokop.

2:05:15He got head kick KO'd. He got knocked out by Rampage Jackson. He got knocked out by some big fucking scary shots. Krokop had legs like Earl Campbell. They were just ridiculous looking. Yeah. No, he was he was one of the most elite strikers that ever competed in MMA. He was terrifying, too. The stare down between Vanderlei Silva and Mirko Krokop, in my opinion, is the greatest stare down in the history of combat sports. Because you've got a guy who, in Vandalee Silva, is one of the most intimidating, terrifying MMA fighters that ever lived. But then in Mirko Krokop, you've got a guy who's the head of an anti-terrorist squadron who's fucking probably murdered people.

2:05:58Like, look at the difference. That motherfucker ain't scared of shit. Look at this stare down. Neither one of them are scared. Yeah, I think Vandalee might have been feeling it a little. Yeah. That guy's looking through to his fucking soul. Mirko is 100%. Mirko wins this stare down. Mirko was looking through to his fucking soul, dude. Oh, my goodness. That is a stare down, son. Look at his eyes. That is a serious man. And, I mean, Mirko. That ref's got his hands full. Oh, yeah. Well, they always had their hands full in pride because they had stomps and soccer kicks. It was a crazy organization.

2:06:37Did they test in Pride? No. Not only did they not test. Well, they did test. They didn't do anything. It was a fake test. You get an A-plus on steroids. Ensign Inouye is another legend and just one of the all-time greats and a pioneer of MMA from the early days. Ensign told me when he did the podcast, he said, they had in all capital letters, we do not test for steroids. They wanted you on steroids. Or growth hormone. They wanted you on it because look if you want excitement and you don't have a sanctioning body like why would you your Your goal is to create the best product like what's the best product?

2:07:19Bunch of juiced up fucking psychopaths beat the shit out of each other highly skilled juiced up savages going to war That's what you want. You don't want anybody's dealing with normal hormone levels. Fuck that. So they would encourage people I I didn't hear any rumors of Fedor doing that. Do you think Fedor? I don't. Well, you can only speculate. You don't know because he didn't look like he was on steroids, right? Because he had like dad bod, but jacked, you know, but he carried along some extra body fat because he didn't have to worry about losing weight. But he came from the Russian sports program, you know, and they cheated with everything.

2:07:57The reality of – have you ever seen that movie Icarus? No. Oh, it's a great movie. Oh, my God. Brian Fogel made this documentary, and it's a really interesting documentary because he made the documentary. This was the plan of it. He was an endurance racer, so he's going to do a cycling race, and he was going to do it naturally. So he does it, compares his numbers, and then he hires this guy, Gregory Rechenko. Is it Rechenko? Yeah, you got it. Rechenko? Yeah. who is that's the guy who was the head of the Russian anti-doping and I'm making air quotes anti-doping program and so during yeah Rodchenkov Gregory Rodchenkov so during the filming of it it turns out that the Russians get busted because during the Sochi Olympics the entire roster of Russian athletes was on droids.

2:08:57So what they did was they cut a hole in the wall and they would take the piss that the Russians had given after the competition they'd sneak it through the hole and sneak in some new piss and put it in its place. But what they had found was that there was micro abrasions in the jars. They supposedly had these unopenable jars. And the Russians had figured out a way to like snake some sort of a utensil or some sort of a device and open up these jars, swap out the piss and put in some fresh clean piss in the same jar. So this is while they're filming. So he is being taught how to juice up by this guy.

2:09:41So this guy is telling him, this is what you would take and this is how much to take. So he's doing this preparing to go do this cycling race juiced up. And while this is happening, this guy has to flee Russia because now he gets busted. And then he starts telling Brian Fogle everything. He tells them how they run the program. So now to this day, this guy is hiding. He's in witness protection. They arrested his family. I think they took his family's money away. They took their home away. They took everything because they want him to turn this guy in. So he's in witness protection right now still in America hiding because they'll assassinate him.

2:10:20If they find him. Oh, yeah. Because this guy gave up the entire secrets of the Russian doping program, which led to in the Brazil Olympics, Russia was banned from the Brazil Olympics. Yeah. For the doping. Yeah. So this documentary is fucking wild because it shows he tells every the only people that didn't do it with was figure skaters. They said the figure skaters, it didn't help. And it actually hurt a little bit. We tried, but it didn't help. They want to keep them gay. They wanted to keep them like whatever they wanted to keep them. They just felt like there's something about giving them testosterone, giving them human growth hormone, steroids.

2:11:01It fucked with their fine motor skills. And it's like such a delicate sport. You know, it's a sport of it's just hand-eye coordination and balance. And it didn't help them to be on performance-enhancing drugs. You said keep them gay. I don't think if you gave steroids to Johnny Weir, it's going to, you know. You only one way to find out? No, I'm just kidding. That guy is, he's pretty entertaining, Johnny Weir. Was he a gay porn star? No, he was an Olympic skater, right? Is it Johnny Weir? It's Johnny Weir. Oh, right, right, right, right. I don't know why I thought gay porn star. I thought like if you're giving steroids to a gay guy What would be the last guy that you'd want to do it to To see if you could turn him not gay would be a gay porn star Like give him steroids and all of a sudden he's like Why am I fucking all these guys?

2:11:57This is crazy Thank you You've cured me It turns out it wasn't pray the gay away It's inject the gay away Oh that preacher pray the gay away Yeah Oh those guys are funny Those guys are almost all gay Those gay retreats Yeah, it's like – They'll get together and hug it out with boners. Yeah. Kind of sad. Just be how you're going to be, man. Don't, like, tell everyone what to do. Just live your life however you want to live it. Well, this is a burden of responsibility on some of us for being judgmental and for so long. I mean, being gay was so dangerous to come out. You could get killed. You could get beaten.

2:12:34Yeah. I mean, it's a testament to our society today that it is like not just accepted but celebrated that people are gay. It's because for so long it was so hard to be gay. Yeah. Of course. You know the Turing test? You know what the Turing test is? Yeah. Well, Alan Turing was gay. And I mean, that's a terrible story. That's a tragic story. The man like really had an enormous impact on World War II. But still he had to be closeted. And then they chemically castrated him. Yeah. In England. It's tragic. In the 1950s. And he's the guy who came up with the Turing test, which is a way to determine whether or not artificial intelligence had achieved sentience.

2:13:20Could you tell if you're having – and most people believe that at this point in time you can't tell. Like the Turing test has already been achieved. Like they've already passed it. Like if you talk to like perplexity, this is what I use for everything. If I talk to it, I would not know whether or not that's a person or not. I mean it can communicate like a human. Yeah. And it can answer questions about anything. It's just basically like a super genius human being that I ask questions to all the time on my phone. And I don't ever feel like this is a computer. It feels like a fucking person that's just like you have a wizard that you can ask any question of.

2:14:00and it can give you the answer. So that's Alan Turing's invention was this test to determine whether or not you could determine whether artificial intelligence had achieved sentience. And what did they do to this guy? They chemically castrated him for being gay, and he wound up committing suicide. It's tragic. I mean, all that he did in World War II, I mean, he's the father of the modern computer. He helped break the Enigma code, which was considered unbreakable. Yeah. And just his country turned his back on him and everyone liked him, really. And not even that long ago. That's what's crazy. People who were alive back then are still alive today.

2:14:48And that's how much the world has shifted. Yeah. And, you know, whatever it's been, 80 years. It's kind of crazy. Yeah. Not even 80 years, 70 years, right? Crazy. Yeah. I'm fascinated by World War II and the characters from that. Oh, yeah. No, World War II is a nutty time in history. And it's also, in a lot of people's eyes in America, one of the reasons why people are so fascinated with World War II, it's the last time Americans got to feel like real heroes. Yeah. We fucking did it. We turned back the Nazis. We defeated them. You know, we stopped this takeover of the world by the most evil group that we've ever seen assembled in modern history.

2:15:33And America came back, and there's that photograph, that famous photograph. I guess it's in Times Square where that soldier is kissing that woman. That was staged, right? I believe it was, unfortunately. Because the wars after that were muddy. It was not like, this is a good guy, this is the bad guy. Exactly. It's like, and then in Vietnam, it's not, you're not taking a hill. You can't, it wasn't about that. It became just the number of casualties. Well, also, it didn't, it was a war that didn't make any sense. No, no. We found out later on that it was a war that was started under false pretenses.

2:16:09Sure. Well, there's, there's been a few of those. But that was the one that's the most obvious. The Gulf of Tonkin incident is the most obvious and proven. Like now it's, it's not a conspiracy theory. They staged a false flag. They lied to the American people. It's the same thing Hitler did in Poland. Burning the rest of the time. Yeah, yeah. Did you ever read Blitzed? No. It's Norman Oler wrote about Hitler marching through Poland and about all the drugs that they were giving people. Oh, yeah, the Pervitin. They would get jacked up on Pervitin. Fucking meth. They had capsules, meth capsules. And the people at the front of the line got the most meth.

2:16:51Yeah. They dosed people up according to where you were. But they realized that had diminishing returns because they're just jacked up all the time and they're not sleeping and then it starts falling off. Yeah. But by then they were addicted. Well, it turns out you could do it for three days and get all the way through Poland. Yeah. That's how they did it. Yeah. Three days, no sleep, and Hitler was like, I know how we could do it. Just meth everybody up and have a march. Well, he was taking more drugs than anyone. Oh, yeah. Just. Well, he had his own doctor that wasn't a part of the SS. Yeah, that shady ass doctor.

2:17:26Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all in the book. The book is fantastic. It's really good because it's just like. And he said that most of what Hitler was on was actually opiates. Yeah, Yukonol. I don't know. Pervitin. Well, Pervitin is a meth, right? It's an epitome. Yeah, Pervitin is the meth. But I think Yukonol was an opiate. Will you? He was on a lot. He was on a lot. A lot of shit, yeah. A lot of different things. Do you know that he also had a genetic anomaly that would lead to his testicles not descending? Yeah, I've heard of it. Yeah, I think it's called Corman syndrome or something like that. You could all...

2:18:05Yeah. Yeah, it was an opiate. Yeah. I think it's called Holman syndrome or something like that. Whatever he got. What is it called? Morrell was like Elvis's doctor. Yeah. So they got blood from the fabric. What was it called? What was the syndrome called? Micropenis. Yeah, well, definitely. Micropenis was the Kalman. That's what it is. Kalman syndrome. So what it was was they found blood from the couch where supposedly Hitler committed suicide. They took that blood and matched the DNA to Hitler's bloodline. So they knew it was a male and they knew the blood came from someone in Hitler's family.

2:18:52So they're reasonably assured that this is Hitler. And then they found that they had Kallman syndrome. So researchers analyzing blood-stained cloth from the sofa where Hitler died found genetic marker linked to Kallman syndrome disorder as a form of hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, which resulted in insufficient production of sex hormones and can prevent or delay puberty. Makes sense. Yeah. Right? Methed up dude. Yeah. Little dick. Tiny dick. No balls. Most evil man in history. Wants to fuck the whole world. Maybe one ball. Maybe one ball. Well, he was diagnosed with one undescended testicle. That was a fact from one of his medical reports.

2:19:34One of his testicles was like stuck up there. Yeah. It's a crazy time. He had some problems. He had some issues. Yeah. What a fucking monster. Speaking of meth, we always talk about this documentary that Johnny had a hand in. Oh, that's right. Oh, The Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia. I fucking love that documentary, dude. Thank you. That documentary was crazy. How did you get involved in that? Thank you, Jamie. How did you get involved in that? A friend of mine knew Julian Knitsberg, and Julian is the one who found Jessica White. uh uh he just uh julian was doing a another documentary on um oh shit uh fuck i can't remember right now but they're like hey do you want to meet julian nitzberg and i'm like yeah and so i talked to julian he told me the story of his being involved with jessica white the first doc you saw the first one right you did more than one no no the first one uh jacob young did uh julian nitsberg found jessica white went to jacob young and said hey look at this guy look at this character and it came out on videotape and if you saw it back in the late 80s early 90s it was usually like a copied over fourth is this the dancing outlaw one yeah yeah yeah okay so that's what that's not the wild and wonderful whites of West Virginia.

2:21:08That was yours, right? Yes. And so I was talking to Julian and I'm like, well, what do you think Jess goes up to now? He's like, I don't know. And so we got some money together and sent him to talk to Jessco and his family. And now because of just generational emotional neglect in all the young kids coming up he's like he was like you know the the wildest one in the family but now he's like the eighth wildest all the younger ones are much you know more intense and we came back with three days of footage and we're like holy shit and i we show we cut something together and took it to my friends at mtv and uh they're like, yeah, okay, we'll give you some money.

2:22:01They weren't even sure. They're like, you guys haven't, you know, failed us yet. So they just pushed the money our way and we came back with that. It was wild. It's a fucking amazing documentary. They're a charismatic family, a charismatic bunch of outlaws. Yeah, well, it's certainly entertaining. And it's also an untold story about that part of the country and how they've been ravaged by pills. Well, they've been ravaged. First of all, they were ravaged by the coal companies. Right. Jacking their town, and then you can only buy stuff from the company store, and then when the coal's gone, fuck you, we're out of here, and the town's just left massacred, and then with no thought of what happens to those people.

2:22:53Yeah. Yeah. And you see how that can make the whites and anyone in that area feel, right? And so like, oh, we're going to stick it to the man. The man stuck it to us. We're going to stick it to the man. Yeah. With, you know, they all get checks for disability checks and, you know, they're – I don't know. It's just pretty sad. It's very sad. Entertaining and sad at the same time. It's like you're very conflicted. You want to laugh at them, but you're also like, oh, my God, there's kids there. There's families here. They're all fucked up. Like the kid doing backflips because he's high on Mountain Dew.

2:23:31Yeah, yeah. And he's talking about stabbing, I forget which boyfriend of Sue Bob's or Sue Kirk's. It's crazy. It was intense. Yeah, but it's both funny and entertaining but also deeply disturbing at the same time because you realize, especially towards the end of the film, where they want to get out of this life. Like they're trying to clean up, you know, and she's trying to get off pills. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, it's tough when you're raised in an environment and, you know, you don't know how to get out. Right. You don't have those tools. Well, there's no clear path. There's no clear path out of there.

2:24:16And everywhere around you is fucked. Everything's fucked. Everyone's fucked. There's no good examples of people that figured it out, got their shit together. There's no one cool uncle that, you know, went straight. Well, there is part of the family that moved to Michigan and they started flourishing. I think we - Oh, that's right. Yeah. That's right. So - That's the move. But it's, yeah. Fucking hard. Yeah. It's hard. Yeah, it's like I think there's just forgotten sections of our country when it comes to just extreme despair and poverty and just overall, like you said, fucked over by the coal companies, fucked over by pills.

2:25:01Everyone's addicted. Everyone's just like this long history of crime. And when you're raised in that continually, it's how do you see a way out? You know, it just, I don't know. It's pretty sad. But when you filmed it, did you think it was going to be sad? Did you think it was just going to be crazy? You don't know what you're walking into. Right. You have no idea. um uh so uh what came back was it was very impactful and and you couldn't turn away it just yeah there's a lot of shit that really pulls on your heartstrings but they're so charismatic and they have such a way about them i don't know it makes it uh their their sense of humor like helps ease you through it yeah about the situation but still it's a situation did you take them to the premiere or anything did any of them we we flew uh jessica and Mamie in for the premiere.

2:26:23And I remember he was going to tap dance at the premiere, and he's got his tap shoes, which were his father, D. Ray White's tap shoes. I was there just in a plastic pharmaceutical bag, But I dropped them when I got out of the car, and I was just like, I felt terrible. But they're characters. It was pretty wild meeting Jessica and Mamie. That's my friend Storm I grew up with. He helped produce. I remember me, Jessica White, and Mike Judge just sitting in a bar before having drinks. Oh, Mike Judge was involved in this too? No, no. He's just a friend of mine, and he was like, I want to meet Jessica and Mamie.

2:27:18I love that guy. My judge is cool as fuck. He's so talented. Very, very talented. So bright. Yeah. The man was an engineer starting out, then a musician, and he's an interesting character. Very, very interesting guy. But how did they react to the film and watching people watch them and laughing and going crazy? They – I mean at the premiere, they seemed – they really enjoyed it. It's like – it's a big thing. You see yourself up on screen. I know the subject matter is tough, but I don't know. That's their life, right? They're not surprised by anything. Right. It's just – you know. What happened with them after the film?

2:28:08Do you follow up on them? Every now and then, Julian will send me something. One of them will be in the news for this or that. You know, I haven't stayed in touch. I didn't stay in touch. What did you say, Jamie? Subob's on TikTok with her daughter. Oh, boy. Subob's got the best voice. Yeah. I was always the sexy one. How do you even get that voice? That's crazy. Yeah. What a voice. Have you ever thought about doing a follow-up? Someone else can. I don't. We did it, and I think we moved on. I think at some point it's a little much to go back to that well. I don't feel right about it. Right, a little exploitative.

2:28:59I don't feel right about it. Yeah, that makes sense. Do you have aspirations to do other stuff? Do you have, like, any other things that you're trying to do? Well, I mean, in the film world, sure.

2:29:20So, yeah, I have a lot of – I love doing documentaries. I have a couple of documentaries I'm trying to get off the ground. and you know one on David Allen Coe who Julian Nitzberg was going to direct you know who David Allen Coe is yeah he's a country singer songwriter who's like was the he from the age of nine to 35 he was institutionalized you know his parents just kind of used too much and they put him in the boys home and he was the head of the outlaw motorcycle gang for a while he uh had eight or nine wives for a while he at the same time his yeah at the same time he formed his own religion he wrote his own his you know wrote a book uh he he was oh the best i have to show you a picture and he also wrote some racist songs while he was in prison and Shel Silverstein convinced him to record those when he got out.

2:30:34I turned my phone off. Shel Silverstein, the guy who wrote children's books? And A Boy Named Sue and On the Cover of The Rolling Stone. Shel Silverstein wrote a lot of songs. Whoa. And he convinced a couple of the songs are racist and there's no defense. to them. He's lived a very complicated life. But in the 80s, he decided, I'm going to become a magician. And I have a picture of him with his and a ventriloquist. And I'll show it to you in a second. It's pretty he's the most frightening fucking ventriloquist you've ever seen. Like, and the weird thing is the magicians, Penn and Teller, credit him as one of their influences.

2:31:27Is that him with his dummy? No, it's Perry Allen. Okay, let me find it real quick. So it's an incredible story, but it's just hard getting something like that made now for people who aren't wanting to... Okay, come on. I'm bringing up... So we're trying to tell that story. and so just whatever just strikes your interest like things that you find fascinating

2:32:02can i airdrop this to jamie yeah how do i do this here we go and his son tyler co does that podcast cocaine and rhinestones it's a brilliant podcast his son's really sharp friend it says airdrop code required. And so that's how you decide things? Just based on what's interesting? Yeah, I don't know what house to decide things. Look at that. David Allen Coe. Look at this bell buckle. Look at that bell buckle. Oh, yeah. What a scary looking dude with a dummy. His son, Tyler, is like, I thought that thing was real when I was growing up. You know, because he made it seem that way. Well, there's a weird connection between a really good ventriloquist and their dummy that gets very odd.

2:32:48Yeah. It's like in the Twilight Zone episode where the guy has the dummy. Do you ever see that? No. Oh, it's great. It's a Twilight Zone episode where the dummy and the guy are having conversations when no one's around. The dummy is alive. And then I think the dummy kills the guy. But I had a guy that I used to work with way back in the day. His name was Otto and George. and he was a ventriloquist comedy act and George was the dummy and Otto was the guy and Otto would be like I can't believe you're saying these things and George would say like really fucked up and George was an evil looking dummy with like crazy eyebrows he was a legend like a comedy legend that's Otto and George oh wow yeah they were a little too close it was a little close like he would be driving in the car and George would be in the trunk and he would tell the guy driving pull over I got a check on George like he felt like he had a pull over and talk to the dummy and he'd get out by the side of the road pop over the trunk and hear him back there like just fucking around with the dummy like looking at it talking to it they put it back in and drive off like he would get in his head that the dummy was needed to be checked on how does a guy like that operate in life I mean he's dead now unfortunately we all end up that way he partied hard right like he had he was an enthusiast relationships I don't know I mean I never heard about him being married or anything like that I don't believe he had any children but he was nuts he was like it was an like I never got to know him all that well it was though I've worked with him a ton of times but it was always like he's like hey Joe how are you you know he'd have his dummy there but you would just everybody would go to the back of the room when Otto would go on stage.

2:34:41We'd all want to watch. That was his relationship, the dummy. Well, I was, you know, I don't know if he had other relationships, but that was a big one. And one time he was going back and forth with some guy in the audience, and the dummy was saying horrible things to this guy, and the guy stabbed the dummy. Guy jumped up on stage and stabbed the dummy.

2:35:04It was at Dangerfields. Yeah, I think it was at Dangerfields. What a brilliant move. Yeah. That's inspired. Yeah, I mean, he was a part of the program. That guy was a part of the performance. Jumped up and stabbed the dummy. That's probably worse than stabbing him. You know, he's heart broke. Well, I mean, you know, I'm assuming the guy was doing it for fun. But unless he thought the dummy was actually the problem. That critical thinking. I think they're actually doing a documentary on Otto and George. Really? Yeah, I think someone's working on that right now. So that would be interesting. He was a legend on the East Coast during the 1980s and the 1990s.

2:35:50Like, we all knew Otto and George. Wow. I completely missed that. Yeah, but, you know, like a lot of people that are brilliant, he was out of his fucking mind and never really got traction in terms of, like, a real national career. But he was very funny and a really good joke writer. He was a funny guy. Yeah. Yeah, because they don't have that little extra side of them. Business part. Yeah. The business part was missing. Yeah. It was just a maniacal genius.

2:36:20I have something to do after this. I'm going to look up Otto and George. Yeah, it's something to look up. Listen, man, good luck on Fear Factor. Thank you. I hope it runs another 148 episodes just like when we did it back in the day, and I hope nobody gets hurt. Yeah, I appreciate that. I appreciate you having me on. Oh, my pleasure. It's great to meet you, man. You've entertained the fuck out of me over the years. Thank you. And give me a lot of anxiety as well. I'm glad you're okay for the most part. Yeah, thanks, man. Well, thanks for doing this. Thank you. Tell everybody, when is it air? When does Fear Factor start?

2:36:50Premieres tomorrow. Oh, no, excuse me. Premieres tonight, the 14th. Okay. Beautiful. Sorry, I've been on a whirlwind kind of thing, so it's on tonight. Awesome. Yeah. Awesome. All right. Good luck. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Bye, everybody.

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