#2444 - Andrew Wilson

26:33People would clip it. And then I started getting invited on to do debates with other people. And I didn't know who these people were. It wasn't my world. Like, I didn't know who any of these podcasters were, you know, stuff like that. I'd listen to it maybe occasionally online, but I couldn't have told you who Vosh was or Destiny or any of these people. I didn't know who any of them were, and I didn't care. To me, it was just some other dumb, smug liberal. So that's where I got my start. I never would have foreseen at all that I'd be sitting here with you. That's so interesting. Well, I never would have foreseen I would have been here either.

27:07It's weird, huh? Yeah, it's weird, very weird. And I'll never get used to it. No. People walk over and they're like, you're Andrew Wilson. And I'm like, I'm not fucking nobody. You know what I mean? But it's nice to meet you. You know, shake their hand. You have a chat with them. I'll never get used to it. No, you probably shouldn't. It's probably better to not get, I'm not used to it. Yeah. Yeah. It's probably better to not be used to it. Keep you sane. And maybe keep you humble. Yeah. You need something. You need something to keep you humble. We all know people that did not have something that kept them humble and they lost their way.

27:41the wheels fall off. Yeah, those are marbles. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Especially as you get more and more famous, it becomes more and more unmanageable. I was, I feel like I'm pretty well grounded due to the fact that I didn't come from a political background. There's no famous people in my family, you know, there's just none of that. And so I feel like the grounding's always there because, you know, even, even from the family, you get the call, like from, from my brother, for instance, like he's been calling me the, I don't know if you can say the F slur here, so I won't, but he's been calling me. Yeah.

28:14Faggot. He's been, you know, he's been like the phone call since I was 15. What are you doing? Faggot has not changed. Good. It has not changed. You know, I was 42. He's a happy birthday, faggot. That's normal. Yeah. I remember you were having a conversation. I think it was on Pierce Morgan, who is the best cat wrangler in the business. That's what he does. He cat wrangles. I just talked to him briefly. Is he okay? Well, that's what I asked him. I sent him a DM and I was like, hey man. But people don't know he fell. Yeah, he fell. And really fucked himself up. And it was the hip. Yeah. And at his age, the hip, you know, you don't want to, nothing with the hip.

28:50Every time I see anybody who's 60s, they get the hip injury, it's bad. Yeah. It's not good. I think they think your lifespan at post-hip surgery is like 10 years. Yeah, it's right. He'll probably be better than that. He will. And I think he's mobile. oh that's good he's mobile but i'm really good at hip replacements now i was like what's you know are you doing he's like yeah you know i'm doing okay and and i was like don't fuck around with the hips dude it's crazy that he had to have a hip replacement like how bad was that fall uh yeah i don't know i don't know what the details of it were but i felt like a sack of spuds he wound up needing a new hip after fracturing the neck of his femur and is recovering from surgery in addition to being on crutches for six weeks he won't be allowed to take any long-haul flights for at least 12 weeks he tripped on a small step inside of a lust a london restaurant wow in the tumble you think he was drunk he could have been a little fired up a little drunk well he's also you know not the most fit or agile guy in the world true you know yeah he's only two years older than me no way yeah really mm-hmm not crazy yeah damn yeah some people don't take care of themselves yeah he got he got the crack yeah i gotta quit these but yeah he got the crack on the on the hip and i was like man do you think that american spirits are better than marlboro's for you probably yeah but they taste like shit do they is there a difference yeah you really like the marlboro taste yeah i don't think you'd get used to american spirits i think i could um i've been trying the cigarellos those are helpful like the little mini cigarette cigars Oh, yeah.

30:31Ron White used to smoke those. Yeah. He just quit totally. He went to a hypnotist, quit instantaneously. But those are loaded with nicotine, like way more nicotine than a cigarette. He was smoking those. Yeah, good. What are those little tins? We have those. What are those tins, Jamie? Do you know what they are? It's like a famous cigar company sells tins of these little tiny cigars. And it's great if you don't have the time to smoke this. Like you get out of a flight, just want to have a small, but he inhales these motherfuckers like a cigarette. That's brutal, dude. That'll do you in. And then he washes it down with whiskey.

31:10Well, he doesn't drink anymore. No. He quit drinking. Yeah. I think he went. That was always in his bit, though. He was always up there smoking and drinking. And I always thought, I love that. Well, he did it. He did it till the wheels fell off. And then the drinking was the big one. you know he went to a doctor and the doctor's like you're gonna die yeah like your liver is not in good shape like if you back off now you'll probably live if you don't you're not you got like a few years left on alcoholics too they have it i don't know if he was one or not he might have just been like a heavy social drinker but like real alcoholics that's no way to live no i mean uh they stink they they're like i mean kind of everything about a real alcoholic is just they look completely unwell.

31:56They're just kind of mangled, you know? Yeah. It's a weird disease, too, in that that addiction is one that you can't quit. You can't just cold turkey. You'll die. You'll die. There's only a couple of things that'll just kill you if you quit right away. And alcohol is one of them, which is really crazy because it gets integrated into your biological system where you need it to stay alive. Your body's like, okay, we're going to use this for fuel. We're going to use this to function. Yeah, they've been weaning people off alcohol with beer for centuries. Is that what they used, beer? They used beer.

32:28Interesting. They would just go, okay, well, it was pretty common to drink beer and ale with dinner. Right. They just wean you off with beer. That makes sense. They knew. They knew hundreds of years ago books on how alcohol, you know, what are they, consumption or whatever they called it. It killed you if you just quit if you were an alcoholic. And so they'd wean you off with beer. I wonder when they started making hard liquor. because you would imagine like fermented things like wine and beer were like the first things that people consumed. I think it's been around for thousands, I mean several thousand years.

33:00I wonder. I wonder like how they figured it out. I mean the biggest, what was it, the biggest distributor in Europe of wine was the Catholic Church. Well, wine has certainly been around forever. But like what about hard liquor? Jamie, put that into our sponsor, Perplexity. When was the first known? I mean we don't really know because there's so much weird shit about history. What was the first documented hard liquor, like whiskey, vodka, shit like that? That's the stuff that kills you. If you die from beer, boy, you're fucking, you're going hard. Like Shane Gillis will sit here on a podcast and drink 16 Bud Lights.

33:42First alcohol drinks were fermented things like beer, wine, mead. Okay. Thousands of years before true liquor. Okay. First recognizable liquor appears when people begin to distill. Archaeological evidence shows fermented drinks. Okay, that's around 7 ,000 BCE. So clear of as a true alcohol distillation, Chinese rice beer distillates by about 800 BCE. Yeah. So a couple thousand years. A couple thousand years, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Okay. Wine into strong spirits, the Arab alchemists. Al-cool. Oh, interesting. Using the term al-cool, the root of alcohol. Well, and they used alcohol as base for alchemy, too.

34:31That was a base for trying to transmute metal. I wonder if they were ever successful. They were never successful. Nothing? No. It seems like a crazy thing to waste so much time on trying to turn lead into gold. I mean, there was whole kingdoms spent trying to figure out how to do this. Wild. And it's just like, and they never, I mean, you think about it, it makes sense, right? If you're the first one, if you're the one who knows, like you can just create as much wealth for yourself as you want. Oh, yeah. It's just amazing that they kept trying. Must have been someone saying that they got it. I got it, dude.

35:04Just give me some money. Oh, there was tons of frauds. Yeah. There was tons of frauds who were alchemists, who, you know, that century's version of a snake oil salesman. Yeah. Yeah, of course. We can turn. And there was ones even in the 90s who were like, we can now turn, you know, base metals into gold. I think there's something now where they can make some gold. But I think it takes an incredible amount of energy. Cost more to make than it's worth. Right. I think it's one of them deals. Is that a fact? I feel like I read something like that fairly recently But it's here's a weird one Why gold like why does anybody give a fuck about this metal that you can't even use how much of it, right?

35:49That's true. There's very whether they're saying is 90 % of all the gold ever discovered still in circulation, right? Yeah Well, China just found a huge vein of gold an enormous amount But, I mean, when you say enormous, it's, like, relative. Yeah. Because I think the entire world's supply of gold will fit inside of a football field. Yeah, there's not much of it. Yeah. It's very, I mean, and very little of it is worth a lot. I mean, even if you think a pirate's treasure chest, you know, it's not actually that much gold. Right. So, it's, yeah, it's... It's a box of gold as opposed to, like, how much of iron it is.

36:22It's extremely valuable. And also, you can do things with it you can't do with other metals. The same thing with silver, you know, silver... Scientists mimicking the Big Bang accidentally turned lead into gold. Yeah, so this is the thing. But, I mean, again, I think mimicking the Big Bang, like, what are they using? A particle collider? Like, what are they doing? Okay, how'd they do it? How to steal a proton. Protons found the nucleus of an atom. So, extremely small amounts. In fact, a total of some 29 trillionths of a gram they made. Okay, smashing lead atoms into each other extreme. So, it is a particle collider, I guess.

36:58working on the ALICE experiment and the Large Hadron Collider. Yeah, there it is. In Switzerland, incidentally produced small amounts of gold. You just need a particle collider. That's all. No big deal. He just built it into a whole mountain. And now they're building a second one, they said. Yeah. Building into a new mountain. Right. This episode is brought to you by Momentus. Creatine's strength benefits are already backed by tons of research, But what's really interesting is where the research is headed. It's highlighting what a lot of people miss out about creatine, that its core function is cellular energy, meaning it impacts not only your muscles, but your brain, too.

37:38Like all supplements, not all creatine is created equal. Momentous creatine is backed by the Momentous Standard, sourced from the highest quality German creatine with no fillers or additives. It's also independently NSF certified for sport, guaranteeing purity and label accuracy. Momentus always does things the right way, not the easy way. You can try Momentus Creatine in their classic clean powder or check out their newest option, creatine chewable tablets. Momentus Creatine chews are the cleanest way to take creatine on the go, available in lemon lime, strawberry, and mango. If you want to try it for yourself, shop Momentous Creatine at livemomentous.com slash Rogan and use the code Rogan for up to 35 % off your first order.

38:30This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Life's too short to surround yourself with people you don't like. For me, I enjoy working with someone hardworking, reliable, who pushes the limits, but also knows how to have a good time every now and then. People like that always make your day-to-day a bit more interesting. But it's not always easy to find someone who matches what you're looking for in life, unless you're hiring, because ZipRecruiter makes it super easy. See what I mean and try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. It's the number one rated hiring site based on G2, and for a good reason.

39:09ZipRecruiter's matching technology works quickly to find top talent with the qualities you want. Plus, it comes with other helpful features to help you narrow down your search, like the option to add screening questions to your post. Find candidates who have exactly what you're looking for when you use ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And now you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. Meet your match with ZipRecruiter. Well, there was one they were putting during the Clinton administration.

39:49They were building a particle collider somewhere in the middle of America. I'm trying to figure out where it was. I'm certain there's already more than one. Oh, there's many particle colliders. But I'm certain there's ones that are even probably larger and hidden than the one that's currently there. Really? You think so? Yeah. Oh, for sure. What do you think they're doing with them? Well, I mean, the military applications for that are, like, they're enormous. The idea that you could make, like, some kind of particle weapon, you know, or something like this. Oh, right, right, right. Yeah, there's no way that the U.S.

40:24military is going to let scientists have a gadget like that somewhere that they don't have complete control over. There's no way. I wonder, because I don't know what kind of military applications you would have for particle colliders. I mean, for sure. Big explosions, right? There's probably, yeah, but you're just, you've got a giant loop and you're slinging. Smashing things together, right? Yeah. So, I mean, what are you doing? You smash things together. You can make them go boomy boom, right? Kind of. Well, the real concern with the Large Hadron Collider is they were going to create many black holes that were going to eat their way through the Earth.

41:00That you wouldn't be able to stop them. They would just, like, slide through the Earth. I heard that. I heard they were concerned they were going to open up a portal to a different dimension. I've heard. Maybe they did. Yeah, I've heard all sorts of things. Yeah, we changed our timeline. We're on the new timeline. You know, the whole nine yards. I've heard it all. I'm just saying that anything – it's just been my experience when I look through the historic record that if there's any scientific gadget out there that looks like it has the potential to make something go boom, the United States military has a version of it somewhere.

41:33Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. But for whatever reason, they abandoned this one during the Clinton administration. I don't remember why they abandoned it, but people can, if they have access to the area where it's at, can still go inside of it and see what they started to build, but they never did. But it would have been larger than the Large Hadron Collider. I want to say it's in Georgia. I don't remember, though, but it was going to be an enormous particle collider. And for some reason, they just stopped funding to this thing. but well they're talking about funding another another one that's twice the size the one that they have now they say that they need more room to smash more particles together what are they trying to do i have no idea like that is way outside of of my domain um i can tell you i probably the same things you've heard right is uh they're trying to smash small particles together to see what happens that's what the kind of the official story is but it's funny because every time a new story comes out it's like scientists smash this together with this and this happens and i'm always like okay but what does that mean and you never get any of that right right this one was in texas i was in texas yeah the clinton okay that's it yeah yeah spent two billion dollars on it and abandoned it yeah i wonder see if you can find some images of it yeah it's outside of dallas oh it is outside of dallas okay abandoned superconducting super collider site in 2008 wow I wonder if you could buy it that'd be fucking awesome set up a podcast studio Brogan's own particle collider I mean there's nothing there it's just concrete let me buy it just finish it what's the big deal like that weird time machine out in the desert that was really funny let me set up an archery range inside of it confirm this stuff last week department of war confirms plans to scale direct energy weapons did you see that thing that China made why would they need a hydro collider though right or you know a particle collider well because they want to make stuff go boom Yeah, direct energy weapons.

43:32Yes, Department of War has direct energy weapons. Yes, we are scaling them. Wow. Conspiracy theorists went wild over this. Oh, of course. I told you. Well, that was a lot of people. I want my Fallout rifle, though. I do. I want my plasma rifle. Right. I do. If they have plasma rifles, you're going to buy one, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, for sure. You'd probably get a tax stamp. It'd probably be a lengthy thing to get through. Oh, for sure. I'm glad you're a gun guy, because I wanted to bring up this whole thing with this guy, uh pretty yeah and i haven't talked about we haven't done a podcast since uh that guy got killed um but that whole thing there's a lot of people that don't understand what's going on and um why riots only in minneapolis and why riots in the place where there's an ungodly amount of fraud that has been discovered coincidentally right around the same time Exactly.

44:25Like instantaneously afterwards, the narrative completely changes. Everybody forgets about the fraud. Now all anybody cares about is ICE and fascists and Nazis. Yeah. And it's – you know what a color revolution is. Of course. And for people that don't, it's a coordinated effort to cause chaos. And this is a very coordinated thing. The idea that this is an organic protest, these riots are organic, is nonsense. It's provably nonsense because now they have access to the signal chats. So they know that these people— Cam Higby, by the way. Yes. He's been on the front lines of this. The Crucible has been a big supporter of that effort, my channel.

45:11I will often snipe his coverage while it's going on Send my audience over to send in super chats in order to keep this guy going I think that that work is critical Yes It's critical and there's not that many people doing it anymore Because of how dangerous it has become Yes And so I'm a big supporter of that Doesn't mean I agree with everything he says politically But what he's doing on the ground there needs to happen Right you need to understand that this isn't organic Regardless of how you feel I don't feel like that guy should have been shot, but I understand what happened. And what happened was chaos.

45:47So what happened, first of all, it wasn't ICE. People need to understand that. It was Customs Border Patrol people. So they were brought in to assist ICE. And they're telling this lady to stand away. And then this cop gets very aggressive and shoves her. You have to understand the situation that they're in, right? And this is not making an excuse for any of it. But you have to just put it into context. These people are getting harassed outside of any hotel they're at. People blow horns. They try to smash into the hotel. They dox them. They dox them. That's why they're wearing masks. It's a coordinated effort.

46:25I'm not saying that guy should have shoved that guy. I don't think he should have. Or that woman. I don't think he should have. And then pepper sprayed. And then the guy who got shot, Preddy, he steps in, which is, if you know anything about concealed carry, if you are a concealed carry holder and you are carrying not just a pistol, but two full magazines as well, you do not ever physically engage with someone. You also are supposed to carry your license on you and you're supposed to have ID on you. All right. And you're trained specifically for this, by the way. I was a CPL instructor for years.

47:02Okay. So you know about it all. The thing is, there's a framework here. If you don't mind if I add your framework. The framework here is this is a mathematical formula. So I've been following these extremely closely live and looking at how this is done. Let's go backwards in time. You remember what was going on in California. Nobody died in California. There was an ice raid on a Home Depot and they went nuts. And they started smashing police cars. They were starting fires, right? This was not over somebody dying. And now the narrative, they're trying to make the narrative shift. The Gestapo's in here, you know, murdering American citizens.

47:40Well, what was going on in California then? Because there was no American citizens getting murdered there. What was going on there was they did an ice raid in a Home Depot, which anybody who's been to California knows that, you know, there's, it used to be that you drive down the street and they would all hang out in front of the Home Depot and you'd say two. Right. And they'd hop in the truck and you would, you know, they would go, yeah, they were day laborers, right? So it didn't surprise me that they were there doing daily raids. Okay, that doesn't surprise me a bit. And they all went ballistic.

48:10Now, here's what was very curious about the coverage of that. And I had a debate with a couple of leftists on this. What I saw was what looked to me to be a police stand down order. There was people who were breaking into, I don't remember if it was an Amco or a 7-Eleven, but they were busting into it. And the cops were on the side corner watching this go down and do anything. They didn't do anything about it. Right. OK, if it got too rowdy, they'd clear it out and then they let them continue. It looked like a stand down order, like you don't you don't involve yourself. Well, what I think these guys have figured out is a mathematical formula and it works like this.

48:43If the local police are not going to protect the federal buildings, then it's left to the federal police to do this. Right. In this case, ICE is going to protect its own buildings. The FBI is going to protect its own buildings. If the local police aren't going to protect it and it's surrounded, then who who does the protection then? And this is why Trump, he unleashes the National Guard. But where? To those federal buildings. To protect those federal buildings. That was the whole point of it. And basically, anytime he's unleashed the National Guard that I've seen, it's two federal buildings to protect them.

49:15And so the mathematical formula works like this. The longer it is that protesters are engaging with federal officers whose job is not to do basic street cleanup of thugs. That's the local PD's job. The chances that there's an incident, which is going to be a bad incident, is going to occur. So basically the longer you're there, the more attrition there is, the more engagements you have with these federal officers over time. Eventually, there's going to be something which is out of pocket that happens or something which is escalatory that happens, and they're banking on that. And that's why ICE is out in front of these – or not ICE.

49:54The Antifa people are still out in front of the ICE buildings in front of many states night after night after night. And it's designed specifically to make sure it's just a math formula, right? The longer we're here and the less the local PD involves itself, the more chance of incident between federal officers and us. You're knocking steel against Flint. Yeah. Yeah. Waiting for the fire. You're waiting for sparks. And in this particular instance, this guy clearly had been very involved. I don't know if he was a part of the signal chats, but when you go to what's supposed to be a peaceful protest and you're fully armed like that with two magazines, it's kind of crazy, right?

50:36Like, why do you need so many bullets? Now the lives are all pro-Second Amendment, too. That is wild. That's absolutely wild, which I'm for. He had every right. He didn't last month, but okay. I like it. I like where it's going. I like that because that's kind of a trap. did you see what MSNBC did to his image yeah they were they where they gussied it up the opposite of what CNN did to me you know CNN during the COVID times turned me green and they made me ugly and look like I was dying and they made him handsome yeah so people would be more sympathetic to him getting shot which is kind of wild like are ugly people less valuable to MSNBC less marketable.

51:17That is crazy to me. Like, look at the difference. Yeah. Look at the difference. They shortened up his face. They gave him a little bit of a tan. They widened his face a little bit, it seems like. They just made him a little handsomer. Yeah. A little hotter. They gave him a bit of that Chad jaw, didn't they? They shrunk his nose a little, too, didn't they? Yeah, they did. They shrunk his nose. Gave him a little bit of a handsome jaw. So he looks like an American. If you look at the shoulders, it even looks like they may have plumped up the shoulders there a bit. A little bit. Yeah, the one on the right looks like he's a little plumper.

51:51Yeah. Yeah, they changed the tone of the color. Wild. I mean, they changed his fucking teeth, man. Communist News Network. Look, they gave him veneers. Look at the difference in his teeth. He's a much more handsome guy. Like, that one on the right is like the handsome brother. And the one on the left is like, fuck! Why couldn't I look like my goddamn brother? Yeah, the one on the right, they were twins, and he took more of the protein. Right. That was what happened. The thing is, this doesn't surprise me, by the way. What's going on, and this is a well-orchestrated, well-crafted thing. Yeah. And the signal chats prove that, but we knew it anyway.

52:32Yes. Involving government, by the way. Yes. Allegedly, at least, involving Minnesota state government. Well, it involves waltz. Yes. So that's not alleged. Right. That's not alleged. It's not alleged that it involves waltz. It's not alleged that it involves fray. Right. And it's not alleged. Well, what is alleged is the allegations of fraud, of course. But there would be a reason why you would want to distract from all that fraud. Sure. And that would motivate you to do something along these lines. So let's go back to the instance. So you've got these cops that are on these CBP guys that are on high alert.

53:08Right. There's a lot of tension. People are screaming. If you're in an environment like that all day, like I've never been a police officer, but I was a security guard. And when I was I was security guard for Great Woods. And by the way, I'm not comparing this in any way, but I'm just explaining my mentality when I was there. It was very much us versus them. It was a small group of guys that were working at I worked at Great Woods Center for the Performing Arts in Mansfield, Massachusetts. It's a concert venue in Mansfield. and this was when I was fighting so it was me and a bunch of guys from my Taekwondo team got hired to be security guards one of the guys came and said hey you guys want to get a job working as a security guard it's great you get to see concerts and it was like a good pay and you know I was doing a bunch of random jobs back then while I was competing just to sort of pay bills and I said yeah okay what I have to do and like there's nothing you just go there and you were First day on the job, I go there.

54:10Some guy had stolen one of the security golf carts. So there's this dude named Alley Cat. He was the head guy of security. He was fucking character. Hilarious. His main dream was to open up a bar. Alley Cat's libations and victuals. He had this whole dream of just a real character. But this guy was a hardcore motherfucker. And they caught the guy who stole this golf cart, tack him to the ground and he was beating him in the face with a walkie-talkie this was my first day on the job so i'm like okay so this is what we're doing and we kind of became like almost like cops for this place but there was very much an us versus them mentality and uh it turns out it was a lot more involved than i ever thought it was and then one day i was at a neil young concert i was working the neil young concert and riots broke out there was fire it was cold out and there was like a grassy area so there was like a lawn so it was like there's the inside not inside it was like an outdoor concert venue but there was a roof to part of it and then the back of it was like this lawn area that was in the back and these guys had started bonfires up there and we we were supposed to go in there and break up the bonfires and then my friend larry who was like one of the most mild-mannered guys you would ever want to meet but you know a elite black belt he gets in to fight with this guy and some guy pushes him and he knocks this guy down and i'm like okay chaos is broken out let's get the fuck i'm like let's quit let's get the fuck out of here and i used to wear a hoodie i used to carry a hoodie so i could just zip up the hoodie over my security outfit and like bye um because i knew there was going to come a time where i was like i'm not getting shot stabbed killed whatever stomped over this venue for 20 bucks an hour whatever the fuck i was getting so i wound up leaving that day but you there was a very and i it was i remember very clearly like oh this is probably what happens with cops times a million like you develop this us versus them because it was very much us we would meet up at the beginning of our shift we would all talk about what's going down we're mostly we're catching people that were bringing in alcohol like women in their purses would you know you know like some Carly Simon or something be playing they'd sneak in a bottle of wine that you know and James Taylor you know there was a lot of that and so we'd we'd have like literal fucking trash cans filled with bottles of wine and liquor at the end of the night we would get to keep them we'd take them home and so this us versus that's a nice perk it was kind of fun yeah that's a nice perk yeah he's like also i was illegal to drink i was only 19 at the time but an even nicer perk yeah it was very clearly us versus them and the tensions were very high yeah like whenever some weird shit went down everybody puffed up their chest and everybody was ready to throw down and i was like this job is not good but it it educated me i was like okay and in my mind i was like okay this must be like this when your police officer again times a million uh that is the think of what's going on why they have their codes right they have the they have their oaths they take and they have their little codes to each other too exactly exactly but i wouldn't i don't blame them like it seems completely there's a certain wisdom to this like hey look that could be me 100 and so if it's you i'm gonna be right there with you 100 and then if it's me you're gonna be right there with me i get it also there's a tremendous amount of social media content that anybody could access at any given time where a lot of these dorks are calling for violence you know it's just it's all over the place you could find it the least likely people that would ever be involved in any sort of an altercation are on tiktok calling for violence we got to kill these motherfuckers we got to shoot these motherfuckers and these guys are out there in the middle of that all right so tensions are high as fuck and they're getting screamed out all the time they're on red alert they're wearing vests they're carrying their wives are getting called and threatened and uh they're saying they're going to rape their kids and they're saying that they're going to brutalize their family members and they give them calls in the middle of the night and they whisper to them, well, how's your dad such and such doing?

58:19You know, and just cryptic things like that and let it go. Uh-huh. Exactly. And this is very coordinated. It's very coordinated and organized and the way they find out all their information is very creepy. So again, I don't think this guy should have pushed that lady. I mean, the way he did it was very violent. She was a small woman and he shoved her very violently to the ground, then this other guy, Preddy, gets in between them. Okay, which, again, if you're a concealed carry holder, is a giant no-no. You do not fucking do that. You do not engage with law enforcement when you're armed. You shouldn't engage with anyone.

58:54Ever. Ever. You should be avoiding, you should be trained to avoid conflict. Yes. That's the whole thing. It's like if you're armed, you move into that next level of you need to really be avoiding conflict. You're not supposed to be in bars drinking. Exactly. You're not supposed to be at big parties and things like this where violent things can occur. Exactly. You can take it to church, defend the church. Other than that, you're supposed to be avoiding conflict. Exactly. So he gets in between the officer and this woman, puts his hands on the officer, and then he gets pepper sprayed. They go to the ground.

59:32There's a lot of scrambling going on. Now, you have to understand what happens when you get pepper sprayed, okay? I've never been pepper sprayed, but I did get tear gassed once during Fear Factor. We did a Fear Factor stunt where these people had to – I forget what they had to do, but we had built this – there was like a structure, and they were inside the structure, and they released tear gas, and it's charged. I got hit with it. It's pretty brutal, but – It's painful. Yeah, it sucks. And you can't breathe. You can't breathe. Your eyes swell up. Your nose starts running like crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

1:00:03And that just stays on your clothes. You don't think well when that happens. So this this guy is clearly not thinking well and he can't see. And he's you know, and then they're on him. Right. So they're on him. And then one guy, whether he yells out he's got a gun or grabs the gun first, I'm not sure. But there he has a gun. So they see his gun in the middle of the scramble. The guy pulls his gun out and moves off. Now, this is where it gets weird. I believe the gun was a SIG P320. A SIG P320 is known for having accidental discharges. It has a reputation for it. It has a very specific type of striker.

1:00:51It doesn't have a safety the way some other guns do. and you can have negligent discharges with SIGs. Now, is the P320, is that a hammered model? Yes. Okay, so it's not a striker fire. No, wait a minute. No, no, it is a striker fire. Let's pull it up because I'm not – I know the 365 is built very differently. The P320 breaks cleaner. I thought the P320 had a hammer. It was double action and single action. And then – You might be right. I didn't think it was a striker fire. Most of the P models are not striker fires that I'm aware of. I could be wrong. Well, the P365 is definitely different than the 320.

1:01:32They have different striking mechanisms. They're known for accidental discharges. Okay. I can't tell if that's a hammer underneath the slide. Well, let's just – what is the trigger mechanism of a SIG P320? Put that in there. And what is it that makes it prone to accidental discharges? If you look up SIG P320 online in any search engine, accidental discharge comes up very quickly. It is striker fired. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So it's a modular striker fired trigger mechanism. When pressed, trigger bar moves forward, disengages safety, lever and sear releasing the striker. Okay. So it's a striker fired pistol.

1:02:11Okay. Got it. So as of 2017, SIG changed the way they make their guns because the trigger itself was heavier than what it is now. And not just the pull, but the actual mechanism of the trigger was heavier. If you drop it, so if this is the barrel of the gun where the bullet comes out and this is where you're holding on your hand. It disconnects. If you drop it, it'll discharge. And it'll discharge without moving the slide, which is kind of crazy. Because what happens is something in the dropping it on the back where the handle is. Releases the disconnector probably. It causes that heavier trigger, the heavier weight to the trigger to drop down and it will discharge.

1:02:54Okay. As of 2017, they made the trigger lighter and it doesn't do that anymore. Okay. And there's a whole YouTube video where this guy explains it and shows that you can do it with the older models. If you drop them, if you drop them on their side, they don't do it. If you drop them barrel first, they don't do it. But if you drop them handle first and it hits the back where you hold it, where the, you know, the, what is it called? The beaver tail gun sits. The internal hammer drops and bang. Exactly. And it's one of the only guns that does that. Yeah. And so much so that I believe, you should search this, I believe the Dallas Police Department stopped issuing them to their officers.

1:03:33See if that's true. So before I go further, because I don't want to get into any legal weeds here. But I have one. I have a 320. I've never had a problem with it. Here it is. Dallas Police suspends use of pistol manufacturer. Okay. Yeah. And it's because of that. What are these chambered in? 940? It's nine. Nine? They're nines. But the – so that's the gun this guy has. So when this CBP officer grabs his gun, he was moving off and it appears it's very grainy. The video, it appears there's an accidental discharge. Now, you can make an accidental discharge of this gun without touching the trigger.

1:04:20If there's any kind of pressure on the trigger, if it is a modified trigger, if there's anything that engages with it, even a slight amount, and you move the slide at all, that gun will go off. And there's videos of it online. You can find videos online. See if you can find videos of it online where a guy shows how you can get that gun to negligent discharge because it will. It will. At least the pre-2017 model. um i didn't see his hand go on the slide of the gun though yeah well he's holding it you know it's the hard thing is it's fucking glaring i can't see i looked at it from both angles but it looked to me like he was holding it um like by the handle with no finger on the trigger yeah but it does seem like at least in some of the takes that i've seen i may be wrong but it seems like that gun might have negligent discharged.

1:05:17Now, usually when someone's holding a gun and there's a negligent discharge, it's because they pulled the trigger, right? Right. So in this case, let's, I mean, I'm going to assume it for a second. So the gun drops on the side, striker fired. Let's say it's, I don't know what the mechanism is. Let's say the disconnector that makes the disconnector go. The hammer drops, bam, hits the primer, gun fires. Gun fires, hits the ground. These guys think they hear gun. These guys think this guy might have a gun in the scramble. They don't know. This is all seconds. So they open fire. High pressure. They open fire on him.

1:05:50That's what I believe happened. You know, so when people say, oh, they straight up executed this guy. Thank you better. There's a little more nuance. There's more nuance to it. There's chaos. There's the fog of chaos. You're in the middle of this, like, very high stress situation where you've already pepper sprayed this guy. Now you're in a physical scramble. Someone says he has a gun. Gun goes off. Bang, bang, bang. You're just shooting. I'm assuming. This is just a lot of guesswork. That's a lot of bad stuff that has to happen in sequence. Yes. Like the fact, even if this gun is recalled as a model that had these issues, right?

1:06:30I'm guessing that it wasn't every one of them that had the issues. Some of them, right? Probably not all. and if it's because it has to have a lot of force for it to go off or the slide has to be you know you have to be moving the slide or something like this what i saw was him holding the pistol right how you or i would hold the pistol with the finger off the trigger i did not actually see like what would have caused that force this is where it gets weird so there have been documented instances like the sig p320 there's a lot of legal stuff involved in this there's there's tons of cases some of them are bullshit like there was one cop where they said the cop got shot because the gun accidentally went off and everybody's like oh man sig's in trouble turns out that cop had to recant that and he accidentally hit the trigger and shot a cop but he wanted so this is one so this guy his gun just goes off now he doesn't have his finger on the trigger it just goes off now there's another one where a cop is in the middle of a precinct and he leans forward he's got the holster on the outside he leans forward and the gun goes off he does not have his hand on the trigger he's not touching the gun at all see if you can find the one where the cop does it so there's a cop where he's in the precinct his gun is now here's the question was there something touching the trigger was it the holster bad was there was there debris in it was there something was there was his shirt touching it did he did he jam the gun in the holster and maybe like his shirt got stuck in it touched the trigger there's also the second gun theory and then he moves forward if the guy had a second gun there's also the second gun theory So I understand what you're saying, and maybe it met all of the conditions for that.

1:08:20It does seem unlikely to me, but it's possible that he's just holding it and it just happens to go off. It would seem unlikely with any other gun. So if the guy had a Glock— But both of these cases are from the holster. This guy's grabbing from the holster. He's grabbing from the holster. Well, the cop had already pulled it out of the holster, and now he's holding it, and then it goes off. Right, but it's so low resolution, it's hard to see what's going on with his hands. So if there had been some funkiness with the trigger, you know, who knows where he got the gun? Who knows whether or not that gun had an aftermarket trigger?

1:08:55Who knows what's going on? But as he's doing this, you're in the middle of the chaos. You're ramped up with adrenaline. Who knows if that guy accidentally, while he was holding it, put pressure on the slide and caused that gun to negligent discharge? I don't know. This is the speculation, and the reason why the speculation is so – this is something worth talking about is because it's a SIG P320. And there's so many stories about that. It's not outside the realm of possibility, in other words. Right, which is the worst case scenario, right? You got all this chaos, and then you got that fucking gun, and that gun goes off.

1:09:30Yeah, but let me ask you this. Let's say we adjust for this. There's an investigation. It turns out that this 320 model was one of the ones that was issued. An older model. Yeah, or something like this, or it was issued after the fact. And it's newer. Let's just say it's newer, and they've gotten this design flaw out of there. Let's just assume for a second. All those things being equal now, right, when a leftist points at that and says, that's an execution, what's your opinion then? If it's the case, there is no negligent discharge. There is none of that. What like how would you view it then?

1:10:08Well, it's an extremely unfortunate case of what happens during chaos. Yeah, I agree. I don't think it's an execution. I don't think they pulled the gun from him and then just shot him. But that's rhetoric being used, right? It is. But, you know, which you you're automatically going to have if you have a guy get shot. Can we watch a video? Let's watch a video and see if we can discern when the shot fires off. Because does it before or after they say he's got a gun? Because someone says he has a gun. One of the officers removes the gun and then a shot goes off. Now, there's another speculation that the guy who shot him had a negligent discharge.

1:10:53He didn't like maybe had his hand on the trigger and he got a little amped up and it went off and then he just fucking kept going to him. Kept going. That's possible, too. I'm not exactly sure. There's a ton of angles, a ton of different cell phone angles. None of them are really crystal clear. And the thing that's interesting about this is I'm even willing to kind of grant it to the left, just on appearance alone for a second, just for the sake of like logically taking this to its conclusion. Let's say that the cops were totally wrong on this. They messed the whole thing up. They screwed it up.

1:11:27It was a negligent discharge from the officer himself. It killed this guy. It was totally unjustified. Okay, but now what? Right? Is it the case that we're going to, what, stop deporting illegal immigrants? We're going to stop, you know, that ICE is going to stop, Border Patrol is going to stop doing its job. ICE is going to stop doing its job because of a single incident, even if all of the officers involved were incorrect? Of course not. That's ridiculous, right? Right. The thing about this incident is it's being used as a catalyst to now say they're the they're the Gestapo, just like they were trying to do with Rene.

1:12:02They're the Gestapo. They're here to to, you know, be the jackbooted thugs of the Trump administration. That's being used now as the new rallying cry and catalyst for the and it's post hoc justification. That's what makes me so angry about is it's like, no, no, no. You're out here doing all of this long before anybody was getting shot by ICE. OK, you're doing this long before there was any supposed abuses by ICE. It seems like what they do is they set up the reactions. Right. They set up the conditions, maximize the conditions for horrible actions to happen. And then when they do, they use those as the justification for why they were ever out there in the first place.

1:12:40And it's like, what's going on here? That's that's what bothers me. Right. This is the quintessential description of the color revolution. I mean, they're trying to create chaos. And again, it's very well funded and very well organized. It's not as simple as this is an organic protest that people are fired up because ISIS in their community. That's not really what's going on. Not at all. But I think there's a lot of good people that are wrapped up in that that think they're doing a good thing. And they really do think they're fighting fascism because they exist in these bubbles. I believe them.

1:13:16Yeah. I do believe them that they think that they're fighting against fascism. And I've debated with enough of these people on what historically fascism is in comparison to what they perceive it as that I do think that they believe that 100%. Right. I just think it's an unjustified belief. And I think it's ridiculous. It's not accurate. It's not accurate. You know, one of the things that we went over the other day is we talked about the deportations, right? And that there's been somewhere in the neighborhood of 2 million deportations, but 1.6 of them were like self-deportations. 1.6 of them were like people were notified and they said, well, just get the fuck out of here.

1:13:59I don't want to be in jail. Yeah, good. And then a half a million of them were – but people are saying very few of them have been violent criminals. But we found out there was like 8 percent. This is just 8 percent of what we know has been caught. That is a lot of violent criminals. If you've got a half a million people and 8 percent of them are murderers and rapists and they snuck in – not even snuck in because they were allowed access to the United States over the last four years. Somewhere to the tune of let's be like super charitable. Let's say it's only 10 million because I think it's a lot more.

1:14:33And they don't – A lot more. Yeah. They don't really know the number because it's really – the numbers that they're giving are based on interactions, right? But how many people snuck through and they didn't have an interaction with them? It's a lot, man. It's a lot of people. And they did this shit on purpose. And they did this shit because they want more congressional seats because the census doesn't count citizens. It doesn't count legal citizens. It just counts human beings. So the more citizens you have in an area, the more congressional seats you have. And then there's places like California that make it illegal to show your ID.

1:15:06You're not allowed. Not only are you not supposed, which you should have to show your fucking ID when you vote. Yes. Right? So we know that you're legally voting. They made it so you can't show your ID, which is the only, you could steel man this to the end of time. The only reason why you do that is because you want to cheat. Of course. It's the only reason. Of course. Well, it's not just that, but you make a good compelling point here. This episode is brought to you by ShipStation. When your company's growing fast, order fulfillment can make or break your success. ShipStation's intelligence-driven platform brings order management, rate shopping, inventory, end returns, warehouse systems, and comprehensive analytics all in one place, saving customers 15 hours per week on fulfillment.

1:15:52ShipStation compares rates across all major global carriers, including USPS, UPS, and FedEx, plus your own discounted rates if you have them. To find you the best shipping option on every order with discounts up to 90 % off, there's a reason why over 1 million businesses trust ShipStation. Try ShipStation free for 60 days with full access to all features, no credit card needed. Go to ShipStation.com and use the code JRE for 60 days free. 60 days gives you plenty of time to see exactly how much time and money you're saving on every shipment. That's ShipStation.com, code JRE. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace.

1:16:39People always ask me what my website is powered by, and the answer is Squarespace. Their design tools are unmatched. You don't have to be a tech wizard to build something that actually looks professional and fits your brand. They've even got an AI-powered website builder that lets you put together a fully custom site in just a few steps. Try it for yourself. Head to squarespace.com slash rogan for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, just use the offer code ROGAN to save 10 % off your first purchase of a website or domain. the idea even if it was the case let's just say almost none of them are violent criminals let's just give it to them just kind of for the sake of argument here we'll give it to them so what the people don't want them here that's it you're these are supposed to be the biggest believers in democracy and republicanism ever that's what they're fighting against is the evil fascists it's like well here the people spoke okay i'm gonna say people said we don't want illegal immigrants here.

1:17:42We want them out of here. It doesn't matter what the conditionals are for violent criminality or not violent criminality. If you're really a big believer in the Republic like you claim, why is it that when Trump gets elected to do exactly this job, you impeded it every turn? Yeah, they don't want it to happen. They don't. Because it was a part of the strategy for a uniparty. I mean, this is what Elon came on and was, you know, was very passionate about wanting to explain this to people. I mean, it's one of the reasons why he did it before the election. Like, you have to understand the plan that's in place.

1:18:19And what they're doing is they're trying to make it so that no one but the Democrats can ever win ever again. And one of the best ways to do that is to ship untold numbers of people to swing states. Yeah, which is what they're doing. It's what they did. They didn't just do it. They flew them out there. They gave them EBT cards. They put them on Social Security. We had this woman. We documented it. We talked about this woman who worked for, I've got to forget which department, but her job was to turn these people from illegal immigrants into what they described to her as clients. And so you would tell these people, are you?

1:18:58Yes. so her her question was to them do you have a permanent disability so do you have headaches does your back hurt i get headaches my back hurts i guess i'm permanently disabled and all you have to do is like you don't have to have like like clear evidence you have all your fucking discs are fused you can't walk or you have yeah no you just have to have a fucking back hurt your back Well, what fucking man who's a laborer who's 35 years old doesn't have fucking back pain like y 'all do? So they come to you. They say, do you have headaches and back pain? What man is an office worker doesn't have back pain?

1:19:36Right. Exactly. Fucking everybody does. You get older, you get back pain, especially if you don't take care of your back. And so these guys are all being roped into the system. And then they get money. They get Social Security money. They get money from taxpayers. essentially forever. So if you can get those people to vote, they will most certainly vote for the people that are giving them that money, right? Of course. Most certainly vote for the people that are moving them into the Roosevelt Hotel in New York City. Just like how Muslims will vote, even though at the local level, they oppose all leftist policy, they'll vote at a national level for leftists because they bring in their family members.

1:20:15They bring in, they allow the importation of people that they want here. So, yeah, they utilize the system for the aims. And for Democrats, this is all good. And, of course, for Republicans, it's all bad. And Elon's right. He is right that Democrats – and here's what I see, the bird's eye view, right? Trump, what they're going to do, Democrats are going to win the midterms by hook or by crook. They're going to win the midterms. And when they do, if they have the power in the House to do this, they're going to impeach him day one. and will have now to be the thrice impeached president. Right. And they'll obstruct him.

1:20:52They'll obstruct his agenda the entire step of the way under this elongated impeachment. And they'll just run out the clock. They'll just run it out. It's it's all pretty fucking crazy. It's really crazy. Gadsad has a great way to describe this. He calls it suicidal empathy. And, you know, a lot of these people that are on the left that are self-described leftists, They're very kind people and they want everyone to have a chance to live in America and be good people. And they don't understand they're being used as pawns by much more cynical people that are just trying to get total control. And if you want to know what total control looks like and what kind of restrictions could be imposed on a Western society, look no further than the UK.

1:21:42Look what's going on in England right now. 12 ,000 people have been arrested so far last year for – in the last year, rather, for social media posts, just social media posts criticizing immigration. There was some new thing that they just passed that makes it so that you're supposed to tell on people who are talking in pubs, who are having conversations in pubs that you think are dangerous conversations. There was that woman in the UK who was S-A-I-D and then called the guy a name via text. Yes. She called him a faggot. Yeah. Yeah. She called him a faggot. She was sexually assaulted. She called him a faggot and then she was arrested.

1:22:26Yeah, she was arrested. And I remember arguing on Piers Morgan. I was debating with a leftist on this. This was the topic at the time. Yeah. And the leftist, who looked to me like he was a faggot too, said he was defending it. Tooth and nail, right? This is a good thing because we want to get rid of stigma. The idea is to try to de-stigmatize the thing. See, words create stigma, and stigma creates harm values, and harm values are evil. They're bad. That's the whole moral system. If we reduce harm, that's moral. If we increase harm, that's immoral. So that's the zero-sum way that they look at this, right?

1:23:03Yeah. If you're increasing it, bad. If you're decreasing it, good. So if we're decreasing stigmatization of an activity that we think is protected, then that's reducing harm. Therefore, that's the moral position. Crazy. They are crazy. That is actually a crazy way to look at the world. Well, it's very dystopian. It's very spooky that it's happening so quickly and that the U.K. has become the leader in the world for arresting people for social media posts. No one would have ever saw that coming five, six years ago. But this is what happens when you get total control of a population. And you don't stop where you're at.

1:23:41You continue to move forward. You continue to try to get more and more control. And this is this new thing where they're trying to get people to turn people in for bar talk, which is just crazy. It's just crazy. So that's where it goes. If you're really a liberal, a real liberal, a real progressive person who really believes in free speech, you should believe in all speech. And you have to. I mean, this was the ADL's position way back in the day when they would allow the Ku Klux Klan to march. They would say— And then fight for the right to do so. Yes. I mean, this is what it used to be. It used to be an understanding that as complicated as this thing is, you've got to allow people to say horrible things so that you can counter them with better points and you make a better argument and that people see your side and then society moves forward in a generally positive way.

1:24:29You know, and the online dialectic, the way that it moves between groups, and I think that now online influencers, podcasters, political commentators actually do have political, they have some political capital now, which can be spent the same way low-level politicians have political capital, which can now be spent. They actually are connected oftentimes with politicians and operate as mouthpieces on behalf of whatever that political arm is. Well, you would say that about the right too, wouldn't you? Of course, but I don't see it as prevalent as I do with the left. The left, for instance, there was a whole thing that used to go on on Twitch where an organization came in and bought up all the Twitch mouthpieces.

1:25:10That's what they did. And like this is something which has been going on for a long time. But what's interesting with the political capital angle from these leftists, they don't care what the means are. The ends are what, that's all they care about, right? The means to get there, totally irrelevant to them. From their view, though, that makes a sick sort of sense. They believe that they're fighting against Nazis, literal Nazis. So if you believed that you were in a war with literal Nazis, what wouldn't you do to complete that war? What means wouldn't you go to? What means of sabotage would you not do?

1:25:50What cars would you not blow up? What cops would you not eliminate in order to stop the rise of the new Hitler? And it's like – and they're expending their political capital on that message. And that message has a lot of influence on people. Yeah. It also – there's so many people that are getting attention by feeding into the rhetoric. There's so many people that are making viral clips of them threatening, like menacing, like these weird dorky liberal guys. Like these guys that you would think of pacifists are literally calling for violence. I got one of them because it's like the most unlikely guy.

1:26:29Like you see this guy doing this. Like, hey, buddy. Like, what? What are you saying? Who's following you into battle? Yeah. I'm going to say that because it's the way he says it too is so like he's watched too many fucking TV shows. This guy. Because it's the terminology that he uses that is actually kind of funny if it wasn't so scary. Put this on real quick. Sure. Because it's so – You see this guy's doughy face and his understanding of real violence. Listen to this. When combat starts, we all roll initiative. I'm going to say that again. And anyone – everyone knows what I'm talking about when I say this.

1:27:14when combat starts, we all roll initiative.

1:27:23I mean, I hate to laugh because it's kind of fucking serious because they're inciting violence and they're calling for insurrection. They're calling for people to take to the streets and start violence. But that guy, like what? You're not going to roll initiative? What does it even mean? Well, I mean, I think it just means we all go. Right. When violence start, we all go. It's a Dungeons and Dragons reference. Is it? Rolling. Oh, rolling? Oh, no, no, no. Wait a minute. No. The tweet says Dungeons and Dragons in it. I don't even know. Oh, God. It says Dungeons and Dragons nerds meets business. Oh.

1:28:01So do a search on that. Does roll initiative, is that a part of Dungeons and Dragons? Roll that. Because I only know of Dungeons and Dragons from Stranger Things. So does his AR do 2D6 damage? But it's just the menacing way that he stares into the camera. Okay, here it is. Rolling for initiative determines the turn order in combat. Each player and monster rolls a 20-sided die and adds their dexterity modifier. Oh, God. But, I mean, this is what I'm saying. It's like a lot of it is cosplay. That does sound like he is saying, though, we all go there, right? Yes. Yeah. It sounds like that's what he's saying.

1:28:40And it's also – it gives meaning to people whose lives do not have a lot of meaning, right? Like all of a sudden you're a part of a greater cause. You're a part of a very important movement. Yeah, you're stopping Nazis. Yeah, you're stopping Nazis and it's relatively safe from the comfort of your own home staring at your phone on TikTok. Sure. And you get all excited about it and you cheer. And these are the same people that cheered when Charlie Kirk got shot for just talking. Like that was fine, but this one is not good. You know, it's, it's, it's all like, it's very fucked up, man. Well, and they're going to kill, they'll kill more commentators.

1:29:16They can get away with it. Happily. I mean, part of that whole signal chat that's dangerous that people aren't talking about. That's probably the most dangerous aspect of it. It, it, and I can't prove this, but it's been my experience that left wing communities and left wing groups, especially online communities and online groups, really pander to the mentally ill in a big way. Really pander to them. And I think that it's a form of weaponization. They want to attract the extremely mentally ill into these communities, and it helps with actually what is radicalization. And they play on the fact that they're mentally ill in order to do this.

1:29:55Well, this is Antifa, right? This is why they're funding. It's not just Antifa. It goes beyond that. If you go to some of these TikTokers communities, you go to some of the online political pundits communities who are far left. OK, these people who are in there are Froot Loops, man. Yeah, they are lunatics. And they're pandered to. They're pandered to. Oh, OK, you can't say this to them. That's ableist. You can't tell them this. You're a weirdo because that's mean. You can't. And not only are they pandered to, but I think that that's the source of the weapon. If it's the case that these people don't care about death, they don't care.

1:30:29Like, oh, the outcome's going to be death. That guy shot at the ICE agents not too long ago. Remember, he was on top of the roof. He was shooting across with, I think, a Mauser rifle, and they dusted him. They killed him, or he shot himself. I don't remember which. When was this? This was a few months back. I don't know about this one, I don't think. No, there was a guy. It's just how callous I've become. Yeah, he was taking shots at, I believe it was ICE agents in front of the ICE facility. Oh, that's right. Yeah, I remember that. I believe he was using, like, a Mauser rifle or something. Okay, now I remember.

1:31:00And early on with the Charlie Kirk thing, they were actually making these connections because he had used a Mauser as well, right, to shoot Charlie Kirk. That was the – so people were making those early connections. Wait, is this a sequence of events? Does the Mauser mean something here? Does that particular rifle have special meaning? You know how people are online. Yeah. But anyway, the interesting thing is like they don't care if they die. They're dying martyrs. They don't care. And it's really easy to weaponize mentally ill people that way because they don't care. These are the same people who have the high suicide rates for a reason because they're already mentally ill, like the Troons and others, which many of them you find are connected to trans people almost every time.

1:31:40Also, SSRIs. Yep. This is the other problem, is that how many of these people are on these psychiatric medications that violent ideation is a part of the side effects of these suicidal, or excuse me, these psychiatric drugs. There's a lot of people that have psychotic thoughts when they get on some of these different SSRIs and different psychiatric medications. So you've got people that are already fucked up mentally, and then you've got them on these medications that cause them to do all kinds of crazy things. And aren't women taking much more in the way of SSRI pills than men are? Yeah. And who do we see on the bullhorns and loudspeakers at most of these events?

1:32:24It's women. Well, particularly liberal women. Particularly liberal women, yeah. I'm sure you've seen the statistics, but I actually saved them because they're kind of nutty. The – what's interesting is the – like the least mentally ill in terms of numbers is conservative men. Conservative men, I think it's like – Because they're normal. I think – OK. Young liberal women, 56 percent report a mental health diagnosis. Young moderate women, 18 and 29, 28 percent. Young conservative women, 27%, only slightly less. So for men, it is 34 % of all liberal men, 34%. So a third of all liberal men are mentally ill, 22 % of moderate men, and 16 % of conservative men.

1:33:20Yeah, but do you know what the lunatics argue when you bring that up? These lunatics, they'll argue, no, no, no. The conservative men are just as mentally ill. It's just undiagnosed because there's a stigma in conservative communities about going to get your mental illness diagnosed. And I always point out, and I think this is an interesting way to point this out, like maybe they're not going to get diagnosed because they don't have a problem. Did you ever think of that? It's possible. It's possible it's undiagnosed because I think that is accurate, though, that there is a stigma about mental health and therapy and things along those lines in conservative.

1:33:55I mean, if you want to. I agree, but I also think that what happens is when you're talking especially about the voodoo that is psychology, and it is voodoo. It is voodoo. I have very little respect for psychology. I don't even consider it science. I consider that there are scientific methods used for data gathering, but I don't consider psychology a science at all. And that's psychology. Psychiatry gets even weirder because then you start adding medication. You're not just talking about therapy. It's all voodoo as far as I'm concerned. I think that men often, especially conservative men, get as much out of their close relationships with friends and family as they would going to a psychologist.

1:34:35In other words, I think just having somebody to talk to who's a close friend, who's intricately familiar with your situation probably gives you more value than going to a complete stranger who has learned manipulation techniques. That's what they learn, essentially, is manipulation techniques. I think there's more value there. And so I think that the stigma which exists there doesn't exist because it's like you're not manly, which is how they try to frame it. I think the stigma exists there because so many conservative men go, well, I tried that shit and it was nonsense. I tried it and it sucked.

1:35:06I tried it and it was worth it. I went to marriage counseling, did nothing. Sided with the wife, right? I went for this issue, did nothing. But when I went out and had some beers with my friends, that actually helped relieve some of these issues. I think the problem with that is there's a lot of guys who don't have good friends, you know, and you don't have someone that you can count on, unfortunately. You know, there's just there's a lot of men out there that are lost. I agree. But I think that the conservative men seem to like they have closer longevity with friends than progressive men do. Yes.

1:35:39And they don't abandon them when they change their opinions on things. Right. So here's the self-reported data from 2022. survey analysis found that 51 % of conservatives report. This episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe. We spend an absurd amount of time on our devices. And some days, there are times when I can't stand to look or even think about all the notifications that pop up on my phone. But it's not a good idea to ignore everything, like a ping from your security camera. That could be a disaster. There are times when you just can't answer your phone, though, like if you're out in the middle of nowhere, camping or hiking or fishing with little to no cell phone reception.

1:36:17That's why it's important to get a security system that can take action when you can't, like SimpliSafe. These guys do a great job of being proactive about your safety and well-being because in addition to smart cameras, they also have live monitoring agents at the ready. If an alarm goes off or a camera spots something suspicious, they'll jump in and take action. And that's not the only thing that makes SimpliSafe a good choice. There's no long-term contracts and an anti-theft guarantee. So get peace of mind wherever you are. And right now, listeners of the Joe Rogan Experience can get 50 % off a new system by visiting simplisafe.com slash rogan.

1:36:56That's simplisafe.com slash rogan. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. It's tax season. And by now, I know we're all a bit tired of numbers. But here's an important one for you to hear. $16 billion. That's how much money in refunds the IRS flagged for possible identity fraud. Here's another. One in four honest, hardworking, taxpaying Americans have been a victim of identity theft. But it's not all grim news. LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second for your personal information and alerts you to threats you could easily miss on your own. If your identity is stolen, LifeLock's U.S.-based restoration specialist will fix it, backed by another good number, the million-dollar protection package.

1:37:53In fact, restoration is guaranteed or your money back. Don't face identity theft and financial losses alone. There's strength in numbers with LifeLock identity theft protection for tax season and beyond. Visit lifelock.com slash JRE and save up to 40 % your first year. That's 40 % off at lifelock.com slash JRE. Terms apply. Report excellent mental health compared to 20 % of liberals. That's a big difference. Huge. It's a giant difference. I don't think stigma could account for that. No, it can't. It's not just stigma. It's like it's also like what is what does it mean to be conservative? Does it mean, you know, taking account for your own actions, discipline, hard work ethic?

1:38:44All those things are actually good for your mental health, like like pulling yourself up and getting back to work and doing things. I think I think now and I think maybe it always should have been framed this way. I think now for to for the label of conservative to apply, we really kind of start with religious foundationalism. Mm hmm. That's what is becoming fast, becoming the delineation. Right. Having a framework, having the framework. Yeah. And the religious framework is almost instantly going to put you in that moving towards that conservative camp almost every single time. And I think that that's a necessary component now.

1:39:24If we're trying to make these political delineations, it becomes tough. What's a Republican or a neocon versus a conservative versus this versus that? It comes down to foundationalism of framework. Like you were just saying, in the framework of Christianity, Christian ethics, huge delineation point between the right and the left who rejects that for harm principles, utilitarianism, and various other sorts of frameworks. Yeah, and they'll also point to what Christianity has done throughout history and the amount of harm that it's caused. But it's kind of like every power structure throughout history you could point to in that way.

1:40:04Well, it was what was there. Yeah. The thing is, like, the Catholic Church gets a lot of shit for this. Well, look at all the horrible things that the Catholic Church did. And it's like, well, the Catholic Church was the whole known world once. Right. You know, all of Europe was the Catholic Church. Right. You know, like all of it was. You can't have organizations which span whole nations and countries, ethnicities, cultures, integrate themselves into it and not have corruption. I don't care what system it is, pointing to it and saying it's because they were Catholic. That's where it becomes absurd.

1:40:40Right. They were corrupt. There was corruption. Because they're human. Because they're human, not because they're Catholic. Right, right. One of the things that I always try to point out to people, they go, why do you go to church? Because when I was younger, I was very cynical about religion. And then I've got older. One of the things that I always say is if there was a pill that could make you as nice as the people that I go to church with, everybody would be on it. They are the nicest fucking people you will ever encounter. Are they nice or are they kind? They're kind. Yeah, they're kind. Kind and nice.

1:41:11They're all the above. They're like very friendly, happy people. But when you leave the church parking lot or even when you're entering, everybody lets everybody in. It's like no one rushes ahead. It's like you go ahead and then you go ahead. It's like the most self-organized Most charitable way of exiting a parking lot. I've ever experienced in my life the opposite of a concert You go to a great concert Everybody's like fucking on everybody's bumper trying to weasel in people are honking fuck you in church It's like one person goes another person goes. No you go wave and then everybody's fine and everybody's happy If you could take a pill that could do that to you, if therapy could do that to you, we should all be on therapy.

1:41:54We should all take that pill. Philosophy can do that for you because the phenomenon that you're talking about is the me philosophy. And so you're going to church. It's not all about you. Right. And that's why you have those types of interactions with people. Wait, you go to a concert. That's for you. That's for me. Not for these strangers. I'm going there because I want to be entertained. That's for me. You go to church. It's not for you. And the thing is, it's the kind of materialism view, the materialistic view of pure materialism reduces always to me, me, me, me, because what else can there be?

1:42:33There's just me and the material I engage with. There's nothing outside of that. So why engage as though there's something outside of that? That doesn't just lead to nihilism, but it's the beginning stages of understanding the distinction between religious foundationalism and basically everything else. The reduction doesn't come down to me. And that's why those interactions seem so much better because they are because people are thinking about you. Right. It's like what a concept. Imagine a world where people think about somebody besides themselves. And they think about everybody as a part of a community and a collective community that you care about, that has value to you.

1:43:12And then you go, why is mental health rate so much better in these communities? It's like, well, isn't it interesting how much they think about other people than just themselves and duties to those people instead of just me, me, me, me, me? They're the kindest people you're ever going to come across. And I think there's a lot of value in that. I think the people that are cynical about that, because they don't want to believe in fairy tales or they don't want to be stupid. They don't want to get duped by – like, look, there's a foundation to that. If you just look – forget about some of the stuff that's in the Bible that – you know, it gets weird when you get old.

1:43:49Like, you go back into the old, old, old stuff because, like, for sure human beings had some sort of an influence on what was written down and what wasn't written down. But you get to the teachings of Christ. I can't find any faults in it like it's all about being kind it's all about this this idea that we're all in this together and that you're supposed to lift each other up and look after each other there's no faults in it it's it's not like you have to kill the non-believers it's not like you get to rape and pillage for the non-believers and the infidels must die there's not that's why Christians believe in objective truth, that it must be objective truth, because otherwise, why is most of the world following this as though it's objective truth?

1:44:37We seem to be leaning towards this as though this must be the thing which is objectively real and objectively true, and a thing which we can point to that is, because when people are introduced to it, like you just said, it's really hard and difficult to find fault in it. It's not just that. You know, interesting if we reverse it if we say what could i do that actually would be the best for me me me me it would still be that yeah which is the funniest part of the whole thing it's like both ways it works for you if even if it's not all about you or it works for you even if it is all about you it's still going to be the better message out of the two it's it's definitely a better framework for living your life and um there's a lot of people that just reject that that think of themselves as intelligent.

1:45:24They think of themselves as intelligent and well-read and educated. I'm too smart for that. Yeah, I'm too smart for that. I'm too smart for all that. I'm an atheist. Any atheist needs to take eight grams of mushrooms. Do a little DMT? Do a little DMT. And you're like, oh, I don't know anything. You think you know things. You don't know a fucking thing. You just know what you've experienced. And I think that the world is better off if people have a great moral and ethical framework. I think morals and ethics and being kind is one of the most important values that human beings can ever possess if you want to live in a productive and healthy community.

1:46:08Completely agree. And I think that kindness – I make a delineation between kindness and niceness because I think it's often kind not to be nice. but I do think that you can be nice and it may not be kind. That's true. So I make a delineation between those things. I don't think that kindness though has much variance. Kindness is looking after the interest of somebody who's not me. And it makes everybody, it's actually selfish because it makes you feel good too. Yeah, I mean there is something. I mean you can look at it that way. Sure, from the position of trying to convince the unbeliever, right?

1:46:43Appealing to their self-interest may not be the worst idea. Right. You know, appealing to like, well, has the lack of community and the like, let's just assume for a second. Let's just assume it's all bullshit and it's all nonsense. Every bit of it is just totally made up. We just like we just made it up. Right. But we all acted as though it was true. If it's the case that your whole framework is that we just want a society that really works well and does the best it can possibly do for everyone, then shouldn't you by your own framework just pretend it's true? Right. Yeah. Shouldn't you just act as though it's true anyway?

1:47:18Jordan Peterson had a very good point about that, about believing in God, that if you act as if God is real, you will have a better life. It works. It really does work. Almost like a universal truth. Yeah. It's very fascinating. It's fascinating that people that are self-professed atheists and people that think of themselves as too intelligent for religion won't acknowledge that. They don't want to believe that. And so many of them that I know that are self-professed atheists are some of the most miserable people. They're very depressed. A lot of them are on psychiatric medications. A lot of them are in therapy.

1:47:55A lot of them are really fucked up. They're almost cursed.

1:48:03Almost seems like that, doesn't it? Yeah. Well, the thing that's interesting is like I've talked with a lot of atheists and debated with a lot of atheists, especially on the effects of Christianity and society. against the effects of atheism. And I know what pure secular states have led to. That's what communism was. That was a purely secular state. Yes. Where you really wall off the church from the state. But here we pretend that it's secular and they get all the benefits of it being, quote, secular, but it's not secular at all. Right. Politicians are constantly voted in based on the fact that they have an X amount of value structure, and that's what they're going to implement legislatively on you.

1:48:42The whole secular thing, totally made up. And them pretending that that's even real or has ever existed as a real framework in the United States, just nonsense. Not only that, but I think there is a natural default in the human mind to be attracted to a structure. And if that structure is a Christian structure, you're attracted to all the Christian values that we've just discussed being so positive and beneficial to you. But if you're not, and you go to a leftist progressive structure, leftists in particular, like a Marxist structure, what you're seeing is a complete lack of forgiveness. They don't have that built into the system.

1:49:25One of the beautiful things about Christianity is forgiveness and the recognition that we're all sinners and we all fuck up and we're all human and we're all flawed. and that you could move on and be better and you can atone for these sins and you could recognize that, you know, yes, you've made a mistake, but here's the best way to move forward and be a better person. Society at a whole recognizes that you are me and I am you and we're all kind of the same thing. We all fuck up and we're all just human beings. But there's a pathway. There's a pathway to forgiveness. There's zero pathway in leftism.

1:50:03That's the most horrible thing when you watch these pylons online over the most innocuous discretions. What's funny with leftists is their pathway is just everything's permitted. And the pathway from the Christian is no, not everything is permitted, but almost everything can be forgiven. And that I would see as the big distinction. There's a story that I heard, because I'm Eastern Orthodox, that's what I follow. And I heard it was a great story my priest told me. And so basically how this went is there was monks. They lived in a commune and one monk liked to get drunk. That was his big vice, right?

1:50:45And he drank a lot of beer. And he did this clear up until the day that he died. And when he died, everyone was crying. And a monk said, well, you know, why is everyone crying? You know, he held that vice clear up till the day he died. and the head of the of the the abbot who was there he said yeah but the last few years he cut it in half he was on the path yeah he was well he's just saying i'm gonna recognize all the progress that this man who had this horrible vice uh did right there was still progress he was still trying to move towards the virtue yeah now maybe he never got to it but we're i'm still going to recognize that he was trying to.

1:51:29And maybe he was not able to surmount it. He was not able to get past his demons. Maybe he wasn't able to overtake them all, but he was at least attempting to. Right. That's the thing. That's the thing. Well, it's this idea of someone being a perfect person. It's nonsense. It doesn't exist. And so if you don't have a pathway to forgiveness, and if you don't have that built into your society, you're always going to have people pointing out the people that are the bad people. And it's going to keep moving in that direction. And it's one of the things you see in the left in particular, they eat their own.

1:52:03And it drives me crazy when I see that also from the right. I'm like, don't you see that the people that you criticize are doing this and now you're doing this? You guys are turning on each other over the most innocuous things and forming tribes where you're attacking each other, even though you have mostly shared values, instead of being charitable and recognizing that these are just human beings and they make mistakes. Yeah. But the left eats itself more than any fucking group that I've ever encountered over almost nothing. And they love to pile on because they're absolutely terrified that it's going to come for them.

1:52:39They're fucking terrified. And so they will go out of their way to shame and attack and to take some of the energy away from them. But do you think there's a unity in that? Like, if we were to look at this, again, like from a bird's eye view, I agree with you. The left eats itself way more than the right does, though the right eats itself too, right? And we've been seeing a lot of that post-Charlie Kirk's death. Though I think that that was mostly power vacuum based and who gets to fill the power vacuum. That's what I think, too. I still think that it turned into a dog-eat-dog for the power vacuum fight.

1:53:13And it was a criticism of values, foundationalism, and all of that. But from the left view, if you eat, if you're eating your own, right, and you eat the message apart to the point where you get down to the foundation and now everybody's in lock and step, is that better for political power or worse? Like if you constantly are just eating the wrong, nope, that message isn't pure enough and they gobble them up until you get the monster, right, who has the right message, they're all on board. Is that the better way to achieve this kind of like political paradigm that they want? That's my question.

1:53:47It's very naive. It's a naive perspective that eventually you're going to boil it down to a purity. And you're not going to. It's not going to happen. You're never going to get far left enough. There'll always be something else to eat them over on. Yeah. Well, also, you're advocating for communism. And advocating for communism is so wild. And people, there's no examples of it ever being done right. There's zero. Imagine advocating for something that has zero success. Zero. None. Like you can – it doesn't exist. It's never happened. There's never been – why? Well, I'll tell you why. Because if everybody has to share all the money, then who's going to enforce that?

1:54:28Who's going to do – who's going to tell people that you have to give up your house? Who's going to tell people to give up your life? The state. The state. The state has guns. Yeah. Yeah, so you're advocating for violence. Yeah. Well, you don't think you're advocating for violence, but you are. You're advocating for hard men with guns. Guns to enforce your will. And those people are going to wind up living in mansions and eating filet mignon and everybody else is going to be eating oats and gruel. And that's – Which is exactly what's always happened when it's tried. Always. Always. And the thing that's interesting too is there's other value set issues that are really simple to point to.

1:55:00Like, okay, nothing's worth anything. Like, how do I get my guitar? Right. It's nonsense. Like just – all the communist nations were always setting their market prices based on what capitalist markets would set for prices. And it's like, how do I value a guitar if it's supposed to just be mine in the commune and then yours also and his also? How do we set a value assessment here? What makes the Epiphone better than the Fender? Sorry, folks, we had a crash, software crash. Another problem is this idea of the equality of outcome, that everybody should get an equal amount. That is crazy talk because we all know that equality of effort does not exist.

1:55:43There's a reason why there's outliers and the reason why they're so compelling and so inspirational is like this fucking guy got up at five o 'clock in the morning and ran every morning before work and hustled and ate the right food and fucking did the right things and was thinking and pushing and was open minded. And he became radically successful. But from each according to their ability, Joe. No, it's not even maximizing everyone's ability because you're basically giving a safety net for fucking lazy people. And that's not good for them either. No, being inspired by others' success is a good thing.

1:56:19It's a good thing. And the only way that happens is if you let someone be exceptional. And the only way you let someone be exceptional, you have to incentivize them. What's the incentive? The incentive is they get more value out of their hard work. They get more money. They get a nicer house. They get – like what are you going to do? You're going to decide that people have to like mate like that women don't find this guy attractive, but that's not fair. So they have to be with this guy and they have to find him attractive or that, you know, a woman has to find this man attractive. Sure. Even though he's a don't be fucking lazy loser.

1:56:51This is the way of the world. Yeah. And competition is a good thing for human beings. It inspires us. It's good. It lets you know that there's a higher bar that can be achieved. And you often used to know who the lazy people were based on the living conditions they had. Yes. Isn't that interesting? Yes. Just like you would often know if there was an ugly kid that their parents probably were pretty ugly, right? But it's true, right? Yes. It is true. The idea here is like people tend to bat in dating in their league, at least men do, right? Or try to, right? Yeah. Women love their league. But the thing is, is the reason you commonly see good looking people with good looking people and ugly people with ugly people is because that's about what you can get.

1:57:33Yeah. But it's the same thing when it comes to ability and skill and whatever it is that you're doing. Right. Yes. Hey, thing is, is like oftentimes if you ask a person, my dad used to say this all the time. He was right. If you ask a person, are you where you're at based on things that happened to you or because of you? He said 98 % of people will say because of things that happened to me. And then when you ask them about what those things are, you'll find out that it's because of them. You'll find out it's because of choices they've made, things that they've done. That's actually what's responsible for the conditions that they're in.

1:58:09Oh, and by the way, for people that's not the case, like trust fund kids are the most miserable motherfuckers I have ever met in my life. And they lose it all anyway. A lot of them do. But a lot of them are not fully formed human beings. And the way I always describe it, I go, it's like if you make cement and you don't add all the stuff in the right way, you can't fix it later. Right? So during the developmental process, if you're fucking Joffrey from Game of Thrones, like what are the odds that Joffrey is going to fucking figure it out and get his shit together and be cool when he gets older?

1:58:43Yeah, you're just Dexter and that's it. Exactly. Right? You just like you have the informed experience of the serial killing and it's like there's just no fixing you. There's no fixing. Yeah, there's no fixing it. I get that. I just the thing that's interesting is like when I look at the the communist paradigm versus the capital, you know, that's coming back. That paradigm is coming back. And for a while it was kind of shoved off as like that's boomer shit. You know, but the Cold War is over, Grandpa. Right. Cold War is over, Grandpa. There's no communist versus capitalist. That's all. It's like not – it's not done.

1:59:16No. Not at all. No, it's not done. It's a story as old as time and it keeps fucking repeating itself. It's just weird that people – look, but also I believe in social safety nets because I think that there's a lot of people that are very unfortunate. And there's a lot of people that do grow up with shitty parents or parents that have a bad situation in life. Maybe the father dies or the mother dies. And there's – like it's good to be charitable. And churches are fantastic at that. It's one of the more pure charities that you're ever going to find because their goal is really just to help those people.

1:59:48Unlike what you think of as charities in the modern sense, one of the grossest fucking things today is these enormous charities that everybody thinks, oh, I'm going to support this charity. It's doing so much good. 90 % to the CEO. Yeah, dude. I was watching this thing. It was either – I think it was Live Aid. One of those concert things. What was Bono? What was he involved in? Was it Live Aid? I don't remember. But Bono, I remember his speech where he was like, capitalism's done more to take people out of poverty than anything else. I thought that was funny. It is funny. Yeah, but I don't remember which one he was involved in directly, but I know what you're referencing.

2:00:26Well, Mike Benz did this video today where he's explaining how an enormous percentage of that money went to regime change. Like it went to prop up CIA operations. Like the fucking money that people donated so generously to the L.A. fires. Did you ever see where all that went? Where? It went to like a hundred different nonprofits. Like some of it was like pro-immigration. It was like we talked about it the other day. We had a whole list of all the different things that have been documented. All NGOs? Oh, yeah. That's all. So very little money is ever going to go to the actual people that lost their house.

2:01:08Almost all the money is going to go to these nonprofits. All these nonprofits have overhead. It goes to their employees. It goes to the overhead costs. All these people got bonuses. But isn't that the same with the state? Half a million dollars went to bonuses. Yeah, but that's the same with the state. But how crazy is that? You get a bonus for running a fucking charity? That's crazy. Huge bonuses. Huge bonuses. Like hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions in bonuses. And that's the homeless situation. This is the other thing about the homeless situation in California. Oh, we're going to help the homeless.

2:01:39It's really important to donate to the homeless. Let's help the homeless. California spent$24 billion on the homeless problem. It got worse. Not only did it get worse, they can't account for the money. And when the politicians have unanimously voted to try to do an audit to see where the money goes, Gavin Newsom has vetoed it. It's wild. Well, isn't it counterintuitive anyway? If you're in an area and you say, look, we're going to be really good to the homeless here. We're going to give them a lot of money, a lot of entitlements. We're going to really help them get on their feet. If you were homeless in a neighboring state, where would you go?

2:02:17Yeah, you'd move to the place with awesome weather. They'll give you money. Where they're going to give you money. And so, you know, and they do. They do just that. And so that's why these budgets become very bloated, right? People are like, wait a second. There used to be three homeless guys over there. Now there's a tent city. What the hell is going on? And they all get free crack. Yeah. Yeah. Or free needles in their needle exchange or whatever it is. And it's, it gets worse and worse. The state does the same thing. State is allocating tons and tons of cash that it gets in social security tax.

2:02:44It's not going to social security. It's like these entitlements and entitlement spending. Well, when people found out that social security is going to illegal immigrants. Oh yeah. An enormous amount of it. They're like, wait, wait, what? And they denied it. They denied it. And then, you know, they had to fess up to it. Whistleblowers. Well, why would you have a pay-go system? Why would you have a system where you're like, this is social safety net that you're paying into for your retirement, that you have to pay into? Why wouldn't that go in a lockbox? Why would you have a, well, because we want access to that money right now, and we'll pay it out later.

2:03:17That's what we'll do. We'll pay it out later. It's like, what? Why wouldn't you have it? Sounds like misappropriation. Of course. It's wild that they're allowed to access the Social Security funds that are for your retirement. And then they're like, well, we're going to defund Social Security. So we'll shut the whole government down, right? Because then you won't get your Social Security checks. We'll weaponize the entitlement that should just be in a lockbox. Yeah. You know? Well, we'll pass funding for it. Funding for the thing they already paid? Well, the idea also is that you are supposed to be paying into it so that you will get money when you retire.

2:03:52But your return on investment is so bad. That's terrible. Compared to what would happen if you spent that exact same money and put it in a fund, a reliable fund, you would get so much more money when you retire. Like an enormous difference. Well, now I almost feel like it's hamstringing because if it was the case that they let you keep, you could just opt out. I don't want Social Security. I want to keep it. And then you took that and you put it in those hedge funds and retirement accounts and things like this. you would way maximize over what you get in social security yeah you know so but you can't opt out even though it's for you there's nothing the government does good not a thing not a single thing so why would they be good at that and why would anybody support that they're just not good at it especially when it comes to money there's always a bunch of shenanigans that take place you know and the idea that they would say oh social security is sacred this this we're going to really treat we're going to maximize your the amount of investment and really take care of people.

2:04:51We really care about people. Yeah, we care about them tons. It's so naive. It's just, it's so naive and so obviously an ineffective and possibly corrupt system. Why hasn't it become a weapon? Entitlements are a weapon. They're a political weapon. Well, it certainly helps. Yeah. And also, again, the suicidal empathy that Gad Saad talks about, if you're on the left, you think of it as being like you're an empathetic person, a kind person. You want people to have money when they retire. You want people to have Medicaid and you want people to have welfare and you want people to have SNAP. Who was the guy you brought up?

2:05:27I'm trying to think of his name. It was like maybe Professor Raft, something like that. He brought up the Papua New Guinea thing. Do you remember the Papua New Guinea thing? Yes, I do. Yeah. So on that little island, right? They have the Seminole people and the Seminole people, basically they molest young boys that's what they do right uh but apparently the young boys there they love it because it's a right of manhood right and it's all socially conditioned in the thing is with suicidal empathy that's really funny here to point out to a leftist from their paradigm there's nothing wrong with that actually right where's the harm right that's part of the suicidal empathy of the part of the ideology of suicidal empathy it's like for me from my worldview it's like i don't care if you don't think there's harm in that.

2:06:15There is. We're stopping it. Emperor Andrew, done. That's done. That's not allowed. I don't care if it's relativistic or not. It's over, right? Yeah, I mean, it's crazy to try to defend that culture. That culture is so wild. The semen warriors of Papua New Guinea. Yeah, the semen warriors of Papua New Guinea. For people who don't know, and let's, instead of just talking about this, Let's read this from an actual source so we can explain because they call the children when I think they're six. The boys have to live with a man that they refer to as the anal father. And this guy, in order for them to grow strong, they have to consume semen both orally and anally.

2:07:06And so they get mouth fucked and ass fucked by this guy. And then they continue that when they grow up. As part of their warrior culture. And what stopped it? You know what ended up finally stopping a lot of that? It's not going on anymore? It still is, but a lot of it was stopped, depending on the tribe you were in, because of Christian missionaries. Interesting. Because of Christian missionaries. But here's the thing that cracks me up, right, in this whole culturally relativistic nonsense, harm principles stuff. You're Christopher Columbus, and you show up, and if culture is doing that, don't you put them to the sword?

2:07:41Right. Like if you see the pyramids and they're cutting people's hearts out, like we're holding it up to this to the raw or whatever. You're like, I'm supposed to feel bad that they put you to the store. Like, it's really hard for me to feel bad about that. Right. Yeah. It's really hard for me to be upset about that. But with the Seminole people, same thing. It's like if you went in there and you just use strong arm force, this is why the libertarian NAP and stuff like that I disagree with. Because like if you went in there and use strong arm force and just stopped it immediately. So what? So what?

2:08:13How's the world a worse place for this? And how is that not ultimately stopping an egregious sinful act that you can stop with ease? Like, why not? Why not do that? I've talked a lot about sleep optimization and circadian rhythm, right? Well, light is the biggest driver of your body clock. When the signal gets messed up, your sleep, mood, energy, all of it gets wrecked. So having the right window treatments, that's actually crucial for controlling light and making sure your home works with your biology instead of against it. That's why blinds.com completely revolutionized the custom window treatment space.

2:08:52You want to do it yourself? Cool. Do your thing. You want a pro to handle measuring, installation, all of it? They've got you covered. It's all online so you can shop whenever you want, but you still get access to real design professionals and free samples sent right to your door. Blinds.com has been doing this for 30 years, and they back everything with a 100 % satisfaction guarantee. So you're not just guessing and hoping it works out. You're ordering with confidence. Right now, you can get an exclusive 40 % off your entire order. Just go to Blinds.com and use the promo code ROGAN40 at checkout.

2:09:29Limited time offer. Rules and restrictions apply. This episode is brought to you by Mando. Most deodorants out there are basically cologne for your armpits. They don't actually stop odor. They just smother it with a heavy fragrance. It's like blasting heavy metal in your headphones when you're jackhammering to block out the noise. Mando works differently. It goes after the source. Body odor comes from bacteria, and Mando's aluminum-free formula uses mandelic acid to shut that process down. basically before it even starts. The stuff is tested hard too. Third-party clinical tests show Mando blocks odor all day long.

2:10:06Not most of the day, all day. No midday reapplication, no emergency sniff tests. Just put it on once in the morning and you're good. And here's the wild part. Mando isn't just for armpits. It's formulated to be safe anywhere odor shows up, feet, crotch, butt, whatever. If it smells, don't mask it, Mando it. You can find Mando at Walmarts, Target, and other retailers across the country, or you can go to shopmando.com and use the code Rogan for 20 % off your first order. One of the things, I got really into Aztecs recently, because I wasn't aware that a lot of those temples that they found, you would think that The people that build those incredible pyramids and temples.

2:10:56No, they found them, didn't they? Yeah. You would think they have to be an incredibly sophisticated society. Well, it turns out they didn't really build them. No, they found them. They found them. Yeah. And they referred to them as the place where the gods were born. I didn't know that. I was always told that they built these incredible structures and then the Spaniards came and they found them. And no, when - No, they were primitives who found something that was extremely advanced and then used it for their primitive application. Not just primitive, but barbaric. barrack. When they completed the consecration of the Temple of Tenochtitlan, they killed somewhere between 20 ,000 on the low end and 80 ,000 on the high end.

2:11:37They sacrificed 20 ,000 to 80 ,000 people within four days, in four days. And this was documented by, God, I forget his name, something Diaz he was a Spanish chronicler because so this is before Cortez came there you know they they started like trying to figure out what's going on over there and one of the things that this guy came back he said this place is fucking crazy like they killed 80 ,000 people and a lot of people have disputed that 80 ,000 people but then they found so many bones that they're like okay it's probably somewhere north of 20 ,000 which is crazy enough they sacrificed him in four fucking days.

2:12:21He's relative. Right. It was 4 ,000 maybe. What's that James? As many as 4 ,000 was as max as they got to. What do you mean bones? Yeah the people that even if they did 20 ,000 I think the number I think I saw was four people or it was like four people every minute you would have had to do or is it was something almost impossible to accomplish. They just said the number was probably exaggerated a lot. Right, but they said that – no, I think if you – are you sure? I looked at something you brought up last week. But I looked it up too. I looked it up yesterday actually. I looked it up yesterday and they were saying that this guy – who was the guy that – okay.

2:12:58We can – I know I have it saved so I can find it in here. so this guy this Diaz guy who's chronicling yeah who chronicled it in the 16th century really soon like within a couple of decades before Cortez yeah um oh god I'm trying to find it but it maybe I don't know just the perplexity of things I said Spanish sources claimed 80 ,400 victims in 1487. Right. But modern estimates suggest 4 ,000 to maybe 20 ,000. Right. So 20, okay. They don't really know. So 80 ,000 might be exaggerated if you think about the number, but just think about 20 ,000 people. Killing 20 ,000 people by cutting their hearts out and throwing them down the steps of the pyramid in four days is fucking crazy.

2:13:56So if you're the Spaniards and you come here, you don't feel bad about conquering those fuckers. you're like what are you guys doing or how about when they showed up and they found the mayans and they're playing football with human heads yeah now here's the funny one they don't want to believe that they played football with human heads so historians try to say that they didn't play football with human heads even though there's artistic depictions of them playing football with human heads like no that was just symbolic well did they sacrifice humans yes they did but uh they played football with their heads that would be rude it's that that whole myth of the noble savage exactly and that whole myth of the noble savage is something which is utilized by the left in order to make the claim that you are an imperialist and an occupier and a person who yeah you have colonized their land and the thing is is it's like if that's what we colonized why do i care i ask this question all the time why do i care if that's what i colonized if that's what my ancestors colonized?

2:15:02Why should I give a shit about that? Well, there's an amazing book about Texas called Empire of the Summer Moon. It's all about the Comanche. This entire land used to be before Mexico owned it. By the way, one of the funny things, this lady said to me, you know, this all used to be Mexico. I'm like, right. But do you know for how long? 15 years. Like, I've been here for six. Like, you got to let that go. That's not that long. 15 years. And And by the way, Mexico was only one. And we had an Alamo over it, okay? Yeah. And by the way, Mexico was only one when it owned Texas. Mexico started in 1820.

2:15:36With its new constitution? Yeah. Yeah. Because then also you have the language and the religion of your oppressors that you're trying to say is this noble and incredible culture that you're bringing over to America. And you're all Catholic. Yeah. You're all Catholic. You all speak Spanish. They used to have... First of all, the people, the Native American people and the original people in the Aztecs, the Mayans, the Mexicans, it's essentially the same kind of people. A lot of them are, they look the same. It's like, if you look at Sitting Bull, he looks like he could be working at a taqueria. My wife calls them the pygmy people.

2:16:12Oh, they're tiny little people in Maya. Yeah, it says the pygmy people. They probably didn't have any protein. They have flat noses and they like, yeah, they look like pygmy people. Well, the original people of Mexico had, or what the land of Mexico had over a hundred languages. The Mayans alone had 30 different languages. They're all lost. These languages are all lost. And we're supposed to think it's noble that this amazing culture that have the language and the religion of their oppressors. And they want to move here with this language. They're colonizing. You're trying to colonize a place.

2:16:45You've been colonized. You're trying to colonize. And here's the thing about colonizing. everybody everybody that doesn't live in africa somewhere in their ancestry there was a colonizer like if you go to minnesota and you see these somali communities and everyone's speaking somali they have somali businesses what do you think that is it's a colony of course it's just not a big one it just hasn't taken over the entire country and when it does you'll think it's great because they're not white right well they're not colonizers they're not you see why immigrants they're immigrants yeah right white people are calling yeah white white people are the colonizers everyone else is the immigrant nobody feels bad for swedish chicks with big tits that are moving to america you don't think that those are colonists yeah don't care yeah don't care yeah it's only it's only the colon it's only the colonization oh man well the thing is funny moving back to the to the myth of the noble savage thing how weaponized that is when so much of it isn't true like for instance you've heard of the two spirits yes right that's that's all that's all bullshit too the whole two spirit people all bullshit came from like one guy i don't remember started with a b right um who like bardetche or something like this that they called them right and it was one tribe of people who who uh had some like weird thing that they did that was it well it's probably gay guys yeah that was the whole guys that like dressing up like yeah that's where the whole two-spirit thing came and then suddenly it's like no the native americans had the two-spirit it's like no no no no no no no no that is not the case at all you just made it up because then you could throw it in with your skittles bullshit right so that's the rainbow yeah throw it in with the skittles bullshit the rainbow yeah well the thing about this area here before mexico owned it was Comancheria.

2:18:40It was owned by the Comanche. But you know how they owned it? Because they killed the fucking Apache. That's how. Colonizers. Yeah. Well, they were fucking brutal. That's why this Empire of the Summer Moon book is so good. Because it just shows you how unbelievably barbaric the Comanche were. They were the baddest motherfuckers around. Because they had figured out horse raising. And by the way, they only got those from Spanish. Yeah. From Europeans, right? Yeah, which is crazy because horses actually originated in North America. I thought they were in Europe and brought here from Europe. No. Horses.

2:19:12No, horses originated in North America and then made their way to Asia and then were wiped out in North America and then reintroduced by the Spanish. But the natives didn't have access to them until Europeans brought them. Okay. That's what I thought. Their culture was so incredibly wild. If you think about it, like, you know, you're talking about, when you think about Europe and Asia, you've got people riding horses and building cities and you've got, like, agriculture and all these things. And in North America, you basically have Stone Age people. It's really kind of crazy, really kind of fascinating.

2:19:50And then they get horses. And the Comanches were the first ones that really figure out horse breeding. They figured out how, you know, how to castrate their horses. And they became Mongols. Yeah. They basically became Mongols. Yeah, they became Mongols once they had access to horses. Yeah. Well, that was the whole distinction anyway. If you reduce it all between the two civilizations, Europeans had domesticatable animals. Natives didn't. Right. And because we had domesticatable animals, we had labor. We built these amazing societies, and they didn't. Yeah. Like, the difference that a work ox and a workhorse can make in labor is astronomical.

2:20:27chemical. And so, you know, like that's, that's the real difference. Same thing with disease. They're like, ah, you know, the whites brought over all their diseases. Like, well, all those came from animals, smallpox, all that got immunity because we were of animal husbandry. They didn't have any immunity to any of that. Not only that, there's real evidence that syphilis came from native Americans. And then they brought that at least some forms of syphilis and they brought that syphilis back to Europe. And then all the Europeans started going crazy and getting holes in their head and losing all their hair.

2:20:55And that's where the big wigs came from. And then eating mercury pills to cure themselves. It's crazy what people used to believe. It's really kind of fascinating. But the point is, even the people that lived in America before the settlers came, those people came from somewhere else. They came from Siberia. Everyone's a colonizer. Everyone. All over the world. People, you start in Africa a million years ago, whatever it is, and then people start It's slowly moving away from the people that were kicking their ass, looking for a better place to live. But isn't the whole thing from the leftist paradigm just to create or to delegitimize the fact that you can say, what do you mean?

2:21:37My grandpa was born here. Right. His grandpa was born here. He was a colonizer. I'm an American and I have a right to my nation because by birth, I have a birthright to the land that I'm on. And so do my fellow countrymen. And they, nope, it's an attempt to delegitimize that, right? That's the whole point. Just to delegitimize your claim to your own land. Well, it's what we were talking about earlier with leftists, where there's this purity test that no one can ever pass. Because they'll always keep pushing the boundaries further and further. You're never going to be, there's no like real Americans.

2:22:10Everyone who's white is a colonizer. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, it's fucking goofy. And it's just designed to point at someone that someone is the bad person. And this is the reason why life sucks. And also dismiss any of the terrible activities that any of the other people participate in because like, oh, they're just oppressed. They're oppressed people, so they're lashing out. Do you think – like if you had – again, the bird's eye view. What do you think the left – what do you think their end goal is here? I don't think they know. I don't think their end goal. Their end goal is their enemy is the right, and the right is Nazis and fascists.

2:22:49They want to eliminate the Nazis. They want to roll initiative. Roll initiative. 2D6 damage is happening. And they think that once they get into power, everything will be fine. But it's not going to. And not only that, what would be fascinating is if someone from the left started behaving exactly like the people that are on the right, just did it from a perspective of the left where you would think, oh, this is okay. And that's what we got during the Obama administration. I sent you this thing, Jamie, a little bit ago, the clip of Obama talking about immigration. And by the way, Obama, and I was mistaken on this.

2:23:31I thought that a lot of the people that Obama deported were people that were turned away at the border. Uh-uh. That was a third. most of the people out of the, I think it was 3 million over the course of his presidency, that were deported were fucking deported, like arrested, deported. A lot of people were killed. Let's put on the headphones so we can listen to this speech, because this sounds very MAGA. Listen to this. There are those in the immigrants' rights community who have argued passionately that we should simply provide those who are illegally with legal status, or at least ignore the laws on the books and put an end to deportation until we have better laws.

2:24:18And often this argument is framed in moral terms. Why should we punish people who are just trying to earn a living? I recognize the sense of compassion that drives this argument. But I believe such an indiscriminate approach would be both unwise and unfair. It would suggest to those thinking about coming here illegally that there will be no repercussions for such a decision. And this could lead to a surge in more illegal immigration. And it would also ignore the millions of people around the world who are waiting in line to come here legally.

2:25:06Ultimately, our nation, like all nations, has the right and obligation to control its borders and set laws for residency and citizenship. And no matter how decent they are, no matter their reasons, the 11 million who broke these laws should be held accountable. That sounds so Republican. In 2010, that was a Democrat saying that and everybody was like, well, okay. That's reasonable and rational. Tom Homan, who is the head now, Was the guy then and he gave him a fucking medal Find the clip of Hillary when she's running in 2012 where Hillary is more MAGA than Trump the way she frames things is So hardcore right-wing she sounds to the right of Marjorie Taylor Greene If you've never seen this have you seen this one?

2:26:06I think so, but I'm gonna look again wonderful It's wonderful because it just shows you how much horseshoes by the way How good was he? He was such a good spokesperson. Like the way he talked was so it was so measured and so noble in the way he phrased his sentences. Like it was really it's really interesting how much perception plays a factor in what you think of as like someone being a good president. Because everybody on the left thinks of him as being like the most amazing president ever. Oh, yeah. This isn't the one. And he wasn't. It keeps coming up, though, what I'm looking for. But this isn't the one.

2:26:40The one is she's giving a speech. so i thought i was looking for but i didn't even type in what i was looking for i just typed in 2012 and that's the thing that keeps maybe it's not 2012 it might have been 2008 don't don't do uh hillary is more maga than than trump see if you can find it it's i know it's on youtube but it's this amazing campaign speech where you got it is it 2008 yeah that's it that's it here it is listen to this I love this one I think we gotta have tough conditions Tell people to come out of the shadows If they've committed a crime Deport them, no questions asked They're gone Cheers, cheers from the Democrats If they've been working And are law abiding We should say here are the conditions for you staying You have to pay a stiff fine because you came here illegally You have to pay back taxes And you have to try to learn English and you have to wait in line.

2:27:41You're going to learn English. Everybody's cheering. Yeah, they love it. They love it. And now, now Trump's a Nazi. Yeah. Trump's a Nazi. That is more right wing than Marjorie Taylor Greene. Yeah, the Democrats were, I mean, there used to be labor unions that would put pressure on them, right? This was a big thing. Like there was labor unions. That was what the Democrats had. Yes. And the labor unions did not want the cheap labor to come in and displace them from having their nice little high wage jobs. And so it was all about we got to deport the illegals. Like, but what did Bernie Sanders say?

2:28:19Mass illegal immigration is a right wing Koch brothers conspiracy to bring in cheap labor. And he wasn't wrong. Right. He wasn't wrong. He wasn't wrong. But the thing is, is it's like, what the hell are we fighting over here? Well, we're fighting over the fact that the left is just trying to ingratiate itself with power, and they don't really care about what the moral paradigm is. As long as they can get their people in power, they'll use anything as a lichpin issue. That's right. That's right. It's all about power. The whole thing is about power, and that's what people need to truly understand.

2:28:50You're being played. You're being played. You're being played in Minneapolis. You're being played all around the country. It's about power. It's about them getting power. And if you think that once they get complete, if they did, they were successful, they imported millions more to all these swing states. They allow them to vote. They completely rigged the system. Now it's only, you think that's going to be good for everybody? You're out of your fucking mind. Let me ask you this. Do you think then that Christians knowing this, they know that these are bids for power when you have Christian nationalism on the rise and Christians moving towards that?

2:29:25Doesn't that seem like it's a rational and reasonable thing to do for them to want? The mindset of if we're not in power, they will be in power. It's rational from their perspective, for sure. What people are terrified of is that it would restrict the freedom of religion and that you would impose Christianity on the entire country. And I don't think you should impose any kind of religion on any people. I think people should be free. I've never seen the—I know that there are, of course, the people who push that there has to be an established theocracy in order for Christian nationalism to work.

2:30:00But the frameworks that I've seen that have political legitimacy don't seem to push for that at all. They push instead that the idea is that Christians should not be hamstrung from the ideals of holding power itself, that that does not make you bad or evil or awful, no matter what the left says Christian or how Christians are supposed to act. And that when you are in power, you should rule with Christian ethics in mind. That's how you're supposed to pass policy, public, you know, public policy of all kinds is through those ethical means. That's what he sounds like. Not, hey, it's going to be a theocracy.

2:30:36Right. That doesn't seem like it's a necessary component. No. Well, people are afraid of the concept of a theocracy. And I think that people are afraid of just human nature and that if people did get into power, that that's what it would become. Just like these people are just trying to get into power, that they would use Christianity as a vehicle and they would just use that as an ability to control people. The real concern is just human nature. Human beings, when they get into any position of power, like to keep it and expand it. It's like that's what they do. You know, I tell jokes. I talk shit.

2:31:10That's what I do. I like to talk shit. I like to tell more jokes. But there have been good kings, right? There have been. But boy, good luck. Good luck finding a benevolent dictator. Well, not anymore. I don't think you would have to utilize a dictatorship. But if it's the case that we can point to, like, there were people who had a lot of power who fundamentally were pretty good. It's possible. What was it that they're pointing to that made them good? Like, is there something we can point society towards that can make our leaders a bit better, that can make our leadership not hyper focus on the nonsense of like gay marriage and stuff like that, which is completely and totally unimportant at the political level and shouldn't be up to the federal government anyway.

2:31:52Yeah. And I think it's a political tool to, you know, Anna Paulina Luna was on the podcast. And she said something that I really didn't consider about certain political problems that exist in this country that they don't want to solve them because they want to use them to finance their campaigns. They want to run on those principles. They want to run on that. It needs to always be there. It needs to always be there. It needs to always be there as an issue. And it's like I think a lot of these can be solved. Like, if we were to have politicians in mass and their supporters in mass who followed Christian ethics, I do think a lot of those sub-issues get solved very quickly.

2:32:29If it's true Christianity, if they really do follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. But I think what people are really worried about is, like, when people think about Christians, they think about the worst-case scenario of Christianity, which is like evangelicals on television that just try to get private jets. But how is electing atheists better or electing socialists better or electing any of these people better? It can't be better. Right. It's not better. Like if someone's a complete sociopath, it doesn't have any moral framework like a Gavin Newsom type guy. Yeah. Like that's even more terrifying.

2:32:59Yeah. So it's like if I'm going to be ruled, can I at least be ruled by people who have my ethics or – Who really believe in that they're trying to make the world a better place. And they're not just trying to acquire wealth and help their donors acquire more wealth. It's spooky. It's spooky because people that have power, you know, it scares the shit out of everybody else. And it should because historically it's never been good. It's almost always when people have power, they want more power. And they want to also support the people that helped them acquire that power. And then they want to make sure they got that power locked down.

2:33:33So what's the best way to do that? Well, you restrict people's ability to express themselves. It restricts people's ability to travel. You take away as much money as possible, tax them as highly as possible. So they're always in this like state of constantly struggling to pay their bills. You keep them. No one's comfortable ever. And then, you know, have this problem that we have to solve. This is why you have a problem. It's these people. Yeah. And we're the solution. The causers. Yeah. The causers are the solution. Do you, you know, one of the things that I, you engage in so many fucking debates, man.

2:34:07I've watched, I've consumed a lot of your content online. And I always wonder, like, does that wear on you after a while? Constantly. Oh, yeah, all the time. All the time. Well, the thing is, is it, so I argue from a worldview. My worldview is Christian ethics. And this is a foundation from which all other arguments are starting and ending. Now, I'm happy to meet people in the middle. A lot of people want to argue in the middle, right? We're going to get past all the foundational stuff and we're going to go to the menu. or the middle of the argument and start there. And I'm kind of happy to do that to kind of move everything backwards or forward so we can either get to the end or we can get to the beginning and get this figured out.

2:34:49Yes, what wears on me the most about it is there's a lot of people who I debate with who I know don't believe what they're saying. I know. I know for sure. And there's moments where I catch myself where I recognize it right then, that moment in the debate, and then I'll hammer them. But it happens all the time where I'm like, you don't believe that shit. There's no way. And then they'll come back with a, you know, with a, I do. And you can just tell it's disingenuous. Yeah. Right. I can't logically show it. There's no way for me to logically show necessarily your motivation, maybe in extreme context.

2:35:24But yeah, man, there's people who are pretty disingenuous about their view. And there's times where it comes out and the whole audience can see it and you can see it. And you're just like, just why? That's why you don't even believe the shit yourself. And you're propagating it on other people. And you know people follow it. You know, there's some cash there. You know, there's a... But you're doing it anyway. You're doing it anyway. Like, I've always thought in my head. You take a guy like Destiny, right? The Coomer Gremlin, as I like to call him, okay? What do you call him the what? The Coomer Gremlin.

2:35:55What's that mean? Well, like Coomer. Like, he just... All he does is... What's that word? He's like a sexual degenerate, right? Is that what a Coomer is? Yeah. Well, Coomer, it's a little more mild than that. Coomer's just like kind of one of the higher values is just kind of having sex with everyone. Right? It's around like that's what you do. But he's like bisexual, right? Yeah. Yeah. He did. Yeah. Well, he's all kinds of sexual apparently. But the thing is, is like I've often thought that there's times when I'm talking to the guy where I'm like, you don't believe that. Like you just there's no fucking way you believe that shit.

2:36:29You're making it up. And I know you're making it up. Right? And you'll catch him at times. You'd be like, whatever I got to say to win the argument. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, I believe that. Yeah. I believe that. But it's like, there are people who genuinely believe their view and are excellent debaters backing their view. And I love those engagements. You know, I live for those engagements. The problem is, it's like, it's 5 % of them. Right. A lot of people are just trying to win, right? Well, not just trying to win, but I don't even have a problem with going into a debate with a mindset of winning it.

2:37:03If you're representing a view, you believe. You want to win the engagement. Whether it's a conversation or it's a debate, you want to win people over to your side. You want to even win the person you're talking to over to your side. Or maybe sometimes you've got to be brutal and destroy the view completely so people don't move towards it. Both of those are completely, I consider them both fine, and I think they're both effective. But the issue that I have ultimately is when you're arguing with somebody and you know they don't believe what they're saying. And yeah, that wears on you. And it's not just that, but sometimes you hear the same recycled arguments over and over and over, and I'm like, you don't even have to tell me anymore.

2:37:44I can get to the end before you can. I can tell you exactly where you're going to go, what you're going to say, why you're going to say it, what your justification's going to be, and I can just get to the end and take care of this right now. It's got to be weird. How old are you? 42. Just turned 42. So it's got to be weird, like in your late 30s, early 40s to like have entered into this world oh yeah dude that was so strange it is it is beyond bizarre i mean to be like a normal working class guy do literal nobody from nowhere no political experience nothing i had no no entryway nobody in entertainment nobody to help me along nothing and so was it just seeing how ridiculous people were being during the covid pandemic that like motivated you to be vocal about all this stuff?

2:38:33Well, and I had time. Yeah. You know, time's a big one. But with the layoff, it's like, oh, well, I don't really have a lot to do. And I'm listening to this. And it's like, now I can, maybe I can engage a little. Maybe I can get involved a little bit. You know, not much. I didn't think anything had ever come of it. You know what I mean? I just wanted, I saw my view wasn't being represented very well. But did you have a history of education? Like, were you were you just reading books? Like, where did you develop these ideas? Yeah, well, it wasn't just from books, right? I would listen to long form, you know, historic podcasts.

2:39:12I would, more than anything, I would be listening to, you know, the mediums changed, but I would listen to what people had to say on a variety of issues. And I would watch the news incessantly. And I would be able to pick out what's true and what's not true after a while. Political education comes from a variety of sources. You can't get it from the news, and you can't get it from listening to just podcasts, and you can't get it by just talking to people. You have to take a sum total of everything, all of it, in order to at least be even moderately politically savvy and understand what's going on in the world.

2:39:44And I realize most people make commentary on things that they have no fucking idea what they're talking about. Right. And so how did you transition to doing this as a job? um well it's about two years in to uh doing this i was like look i sat down with my wife and i said i'm not making enough money on my podcast to quit my job there's no way you know or doing debates to quit my job there's no way but i think i could i actually think i could if i just focused my time on it now i think i could do it replace my income with ease god that's a big risk it was a huge risk because you have a family yeah huge risk and she said okay wow gave me a kiss and uh next day I went in quit and I was like I don't know what the fuck I just did I was you know it's um in some ways it was like it's like oh I'm gonna go be a big football star to you know screw you to your boss you know what I mean and it's like it wasn't the same exactly but it was a big risk.

2:40:47But I just thought, you know, I really can make a go of this. If I can focus my time and energy on this, I think I'll do really well at it. Well, I think you have a very unique mind for it. And I think you're very good at it. And I also think you have really good points that are very valuable for people to hear. And you're really good at pointing out the logical fallacies and pointing out the ridiculous thought processes that a lot of these people have. And I, you know, that's important man it's important for society and probably don't think of it that way probably just enjoy doing it and feel like it's but it's valuable because there's not a lot of people that are good at it i get hundreds of dms weekly from people and they'll say things and this again i'll never get used to it but what i do this is my process i sit down every morning uh i have a cup of coffee and I just respond to every dm that's sent to me wow so um I used to do that for me yeah you probably get too many right yeah it's I get I thought so too I thought well if I start getting hundreds every day there's just no way but I still do it every morning how much time does it take you it takes me hours about two hours two hours every morning I'll sit down and I'll go through them and I can't send back long paragraphs but usually I'll read exactly what they say even And I'll just say something like, thanks for the support.

2:42:10Or, you know, I really appreciate you saying that. That means a lot, you know, because it does. To me, it's my privilege to have fans. It's not their privilege to be one. And so when I started to see that and I started to see, wait, this actually does have a massive effect on people. I also began taking it very much more seriously because I understood I can also say things that do the opposite. They could move people towards the opposite of things which are good, you know what I mean? Or things which you should be moving towards. And so I do take it seriously, and I understand my job is to represent a worldview.

2:42:52And when I go into a debate, that's exactly what I think. Millions of people are going to see this worldview on display. I'm representing it. I need to do the best I can to represent it well. To be an intelligent, reasonable person who's both well-read and has very good points that you can express about social issues, societal issues, it's a massive thing. It's a very important thing that mainstream media is not doing a good job of filling that role. It just doesn't. There's not a lot of people out there. I mean Christopher Hitchens is dead. There's not a lot of people out there that are really good at debating against ridiculous people and exposing this.

2:43:40And it's so important for people to sit down and see something like that and to recognize like, oh, I've heard people like that talk. Oh, I've always wondered like that doesn't make any sense. Why doesn't someone tell that guy to shut the fuck up? Why doesn't someone – and you do that. And that's my job. that's your job my job is to go in specifically and say why don't you shut the fuck up because what you're saying what you're saying is so detrimental to people too yeah and it's nightmare fuel for them like i mean people hear this stuff man like i i remember this one guy he dm'd me and he was like andrew i hate these fucking people like i hate them he said i'll listen to him man and i just fucking rage in my truck i'm like i fucking hate these bastards he's like but i can't stop listening he's like and his mindset was i want to know what the enemy's thinking right that's his mindset yeah and i think a lot of it is maybe that particular guy's addicted to rage or whatever whatever you want to frame it i don't think so i think the truth is is that when people are trying to get to the bottom of things they're trying to be like why is this happening why is this going on why do these people think the way they do and then they start listening to them sometimes was way worse than you thought.

2:44:50It's like, you really believe that shit? You really think that that's the case? You really think that we should be doing anything like this? What is wrong with you? And I think that for a lot of people, that could be a very kind of like jarring experience for them. And I think that that's healthy though. I think that's healthy for you to be kind of jarred out of complacency a little bit. What's certainly healthy for other people to watch it because certain people lean in one direction or the other, and they're not really exactly sure how they feel about things. And sometimes someone who has bad ideas can be very compelling with these bad ideas because they're not being confronted by someone who's better at it.

2:45:30You know, and I think that's a very important - Or even as good. Yeah. You know, even, even some, if you just draw a stalemate, it's like sometimes even that's good enough. Um, because it's like, you know, maybe I was leaning towards this or I was leaning towards that, but I'm not sure again. Sometimes that's the the best thing, right? Maybe you shouldn't be too sure on this side or that side. But before you commit, at least maybe I can stop you from making a committal to this. Tons of people are like, man, I was on the fence about Christianity, and I was on the fence about orthodoxy, I was on the fence about this, I was on the fence about that.

2:46:07This debate did it for me, listening to what these people had to say. This debate did it for me, this debate did it for me. you know different fans have different highlights that they like because they're all coming from different walks of life but they're all very similar in one aspect most of my audience are married men uh you know or marriageable age but you know late 20s uh through 30s early 40s that's that's about the demographic but mostly like 32 to 45 and so these people they have some life experience they're not dummies and they're listening to and they're like it's about time Someone told that.

2:46:41Yeah. You know, somebody let them know what was going on. Somebody challenged those ideas. Somebody buried them. And yeah, that's what I'm effective at doing. And that's what I'm going to keep doing because these people are, and the higher, here's what I've learned. The higher I go in confrontation with the higher level people, the dumber they get. Really? The dumber they get. back in the old twitch blood sport days when it was 50 live viewers and me against two leftists and we were slugging it out they were smarter they were these were much smarter people than the high level academic like it took on these two academics recently at debate con both of them are ivy league graduates right it was nothing i could have i could have easily destroyed them while enjoying a hot bowl of soup it would not have like it was just it was it was inconsequential Why do you think that is?

2:47:35Well, I think it's because of there's a degree of ass kissing and there's a degree of people around you affirming over and over and over how fucking great you are. That's where that egotism comes in. What I was saying earlier in the podcast, you have to make sure you're grounded. Make sure that your ego never takes over. Make sure that you don't become the thing that you hate. Right. Right. And it's so easy to do. But it's also, I think, I think that as they go, things become more cerebral and academic rather than applicable. And those kind of old debates that I was doing was people living in it, not external from it.

2:48:16And so they, you know, it did. They had real emotion behind it. This wasn't just a thing on a chalkboard. Right. You know, so. And the other thing is, I think a lot of people get where they are in media. through connections and not because of merit. I think a lot of people who are in media and are political pundits have no fucking business being there at all. They're dumb as a box of rocks and they're there because they had connections or they had friends who assisted them in getting in the position they are. And when they are actually confronted on their views, they fall apart. They totally fall apart.

2:48:48I've seen comedians, comics who were on the road for years, do better in academic debates than academics. Yeah. And I go, well, how is this possible? Well, it's possible because that guy has real-world experience. He's probably just as well-read as you. He had a lot of downtime, right? So he educated himself. But he can do the thing you can't. He can apply it. That guy has a way to apply this knowledge in a framework that works because he's part of the apparatus of the world. And there was nobody there where he was like he tugged on their shirt sleeve and said, hey, daddy or hey, you know, Uncle Bucks or whoever.

2:49:26you know i want to be on fox news and now they have an in you know and i think a lot of that in media happens i think it's very very a lot of nepotism there and a lot of people just really got no business being there at all don lemon don lemon not just don lemon i mean no there's so a lot of them yeah i just like to pick on him because he picked on me yeah well i don't know what don lemon's doing picking on anybody like you would you would same thing you would destroy lemon while enjoying a hot bowl of soup. It would just be nothing because Lemon's biggest problem is he had never had any business.

2:50:01He was a token, literally a token. He was the token gay black guy. He was not valued for his great insights and wonderful political takes and the fantastic way in which he broke down the issues of our time. He was valued because he was a gay dude who was black who was like liberal talking points. Yeah. That's it. Yeah, I agree. Hey, listen, man, I enjoyed this. Let's do it again. sometime. Absolutely. And tell everybody your show, The Crucible, where they can find it. Yeah. My show is The Crucible on YouTube. You can also make sure you go and grab a copy of my wife's book, Occult Feminism. It's fantastic.

2:50:34I brought you a copy, Joe. Cool. And then I know you love feminists. That's why I brought that copy. And then you can also catch me, Debate University. It's a thing that I've done for years. It'll teach you how to debate. You can go check that out as well, debateuniversity.com. I really appreciate the time. Hey, I appreciate you being here, man. I think what you're doing is great. I really do. I enjoy it. Thanks. All right. Bye, everybody.

2:51:12This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist and trust me, I know. I buy one, the farmer's dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human grade food. The farmer's dog makes fresh food for dogs and my dogs love it.

2:51:51Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier. And isn't getting more time with our four-legged best friends something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try The Farmer's Dog today and get 50 % off your first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash Rogan. This offer is for new customers only. What would you do if you had one summer to change everything?

2:52:34From bestselling author T.I. Lowe comes South of Somewhere, a heartfelt southern novel about second chances. After Junie loses custody of her daughter, she has one summer to rebuild her life, and prove she can become the mother she longs to be. Narrated by Amy Melissa Bentley, South of Somewhere is available now as an audiobook on Spotify. Listen now.