#2449 - Raul Bilecky

11:46Raul Bilecky:Well, that's a lot of stuff, right? That's part of the weirdness of South America. Yeah. And, you know, even Mexico, right? Yeah. That's the weirdness of the Aztec structures. I didn't know that until pretty recently that the Aztecs labeled, like, Tenochtitlan, the place where the gods were born.

12:09Joe Rogan:I didn't know that.

12:10Raul Bilecky:Yeah. I didn't know that. Like, they don't attribute that to themselves. They found it when they cleared the area.

12:19Joe Rogan:I mean, you think about it. I've still to this day, you know, I was up in Lake Titicaca and I mean, there's structures all over the place. But you're like, where were these people living? And because there's no remnants of cities or towns. And the reason is, is because in modern times, people have recommissioned the blocks and started and use them for their farms and their homes and things like that. You have a good location, a place of reverence, a place you're going to build the next the next culture is going to build on it. And I think that's happened a lot in a lot of places.

12:52Raul Bilecky:Yeah. Well, everywhere, right? I mean, that's Lebanon too. That's Baalbek. It seems to be the case that those immense stones where the Romans built on top of them. The Roman documentation is pretty precise. They documented everything. They never talked about these enormous thousand ton stones that are seven meters up in the air.

13:14Joe Rogan:We're just going to put them in the base of our structure. Yeah, like what?

13:17Raul Bilecky:They didn't even talk about them. They talked about these beautiful structures that are on top of that are clearly Roman, but the stuff underneath it just defies logic. And some of the stones that were never moved and put into place that were cut and quarried but just never moved. 1 ,600 tons?

13:38Joe Rogan:Like how? And things you can't replicate nowadays.

13:43Raul Bilecky:That's what's crazy. Like with modern machinery, we can't do it.

13:49Joe Rogan:I mean, when I started this path, Fingerprints of the Gods was one of the first books I picked up. Me too. My dad had it in his library, and that set me off on a course. And the inability to be able to – I don't know. I don't buy the mainstream. It feels a little bit lazy, the responses that the mainstream kind of gives to some of this stuff as opposed to just saying I don't know.

14:30Raul Bilecky:It's purposely ignorant. It's more than lazy. because if it was just lazy, I mean, they've been confronted by all this other alternative archaeology evidence and all these other people that have like explored these things and shown. And there was always the conventional wisdom that there was no society back then that was capable of doing this. So they had to attribute it to more recent societies. Until Gobekli Tepe. Then you're like, okay, you guys need to shut the fuck up.

14:59Joe Rogan:I mean, there's a power in admitting like if we're looking for the truth here, then it's like, OK, we got this evidence that disrupts this that we thought before. All right. Just say that.

15:11Raul Bilecky:Right.

15:11Joe Rogan:You know what I mean? Just say it.

15:13Raul Bilecky:It's fascinating that they can't, you know, because they are like every other form of academia. They're they are just like I mean, you might as well be talking to a gender studies teacher. just like they don't want to look at reality they just did just want their narrative and they want to be the gatekeepers of information and then they just want to push that narrative forward

15:34Joe Rogan:and they're so mean dude it i only started recently being on x within the past year and i'm just like the cattiness of it all man is well it just exposes them it exposes their personality

15:50Raul Bilecky:and they're just not the type of people that I want to talk to about anything. Especially not, you're not the gatekeeper. If you're a 41-year-old person, you're not the gatekeeper of ancient history. You can't be. There's too much. There's too much all over the world. It doesn't make sense. None of it makes sense. And that's, I think, why they're so terrified of people like Filippo Biondi and the scans underneath the pyramids. Because if he's right, and it appears he is, over 200 different independent scans. And they all say the exact same thing. If he's right, you guys are fucked. Because you're going to eventually have to say, we're wrong.

16:30Joe Rogan:You have a moment here where you can choose which direction to go. Pretty soon that moment is going to be lost. But it's like, this is what the evidence is presented. And like you said, it's verified over 200 different studies. It's like, all right, we might be wrong. Let's – Right. Meanwhile, they don't want to do that. They don't want to do that.

16:50Raul Bilecky:They're still digging their heels in and they're just discrediting themselves, which is fascinating. It's really interesting. It's really interesting to watch these assholes just like flounder.

17:00Joe Rogan:Well, and it makes me think, you know, what's the reason behind it? Is it pride? Is it ego? Is it because you wrote some books on it that you need to keep selling? Is it because it's in textbooks that universities use? I mean, there's a lot of layers to it.

17:15Raul Bilecky:It's all the above. But you can tell just by the way they communicate online, a lot of it is ego.

17:20Joe Rogan:Yeah. Yeah.

17:21Raul Bilecky:A lot of it is ego and just really bad personalities. You know, these people that are accustomed to never being questioned, accustomed to being in the hierarchy of academia where, you know, you have these tenured professors and then they have the people that are coming up under them and they all follow the same sort of rigid structure. And so any heterodox thinkers, anybody who comes in from outside the box, just gets shit all over.

17:48Joe Rogan:There's no open-mindedness. I don't know if this is like a parable or something, but I don't know. Some story where there's a truck going into a tunnel and it gets stuck. And it's backing up traffic and nobody can get through. Everybody's trying to figure out what the hell how to get this truck through. And just, you know, some farmer walks up and he's just like, take the air out the tires. and problem solved. And so the inability to let other people come in with thoughts and opinions, it really, I think it's a real detriment to the study of these things because in my approach to some of the places I've gone, I think it is that, yes, we have research.

18:32Joe Rogan:Yes, there is a level of understanding at a lot of these places what happened. But it's also that going into it with a fresh set of eyes, you know, sometimes I mean, I get so locked in my work. Sometimes I can't see outside of it. You know, sometimes it takes another party to come in and all of a sudden your mind is blown in a completely different direction. I don't see that level of openness to things on the side of a lot of a lot of the mainstream academia when it comes to this stuff.

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20:27Raul Bilecky:Well, people have to really understand that the whole concept of mainstream academia is only a few hundred years old. And that's what's weird. It's like so these very recent structures, these very recent establishments want to be the gatekeepers of information of a vast swath of the world. I mean, it's not possible. It's not possible that you know everything. It's not. I was thinking about that. They know a lot. They know a lot about things they have discovered. They do. They know a lot about Mesopotamia. They know a lot about Iraq, all the amazing stuff that they find. Some stuff they're very accurately dated.

21:09Raul Bilecky:But it doesn't explain things that you can't explain. And they want to try to just fit it.

21:18Joe Rogan:That's what's goofy. I mean, look, if the puzzle piece doesn't fit, stop trying to force it.

21:22Raul Bilecky:Well, it's also like more gigantic, spectacular pieces. And you're like, well, those aren't important. I mean, Ben Van Kirkwijk with this most recent discoveries where they're using the ground penetrating radar to find the labyrinths and this 40 meter long metallic object that's inside of an atrium down there. Like, what is that thing? Yeah, I have my I hope it's something my if if whatever if they go looking and I hope they do.

21:53Joe Rogan:And this is the other thing. It's like, let's start putting money towards this like now, you know, figure this out. I don't know why I thought this. I think it might be a meteorite. If it's some sort of metallic thing. 40 meter long meteorite. I know.

22:09Raul Bilecky:That's a fucking civilization ender.

22:11Joe Rogan:But imagine the next civilization coming across that thing. Hearing the stories. It's like, shit, let's worship this. Let's revere it somehow and put it in an atrium. It's just my thought.

22:24Raul Bilecky:Exactly.

22:25Joe Rogan:This one's 40 meters.

22:27Raul Bilecky:Yeah, there's a meteorite at Mecca that they all go to touch, which is kind of crazy, right? But completely makes sense, right? Something comes from the sky, it lands, causes chaos, and then you worship it.

22:41Joe Rogan:I mean, also, wasn't one of, like, King Tut's knives was made out of a meteorite or something like that? So they were finding these things. 40-meter one is pretty big, though. I know, but also tic-tac-shaped. That's the other thing.

22:55Raul Bilecky:I'm like, so when it comes, I'm just like, let's go. Let's go. Well, you know, that's part of the Bob Lazar lore. I remember. Bob Lazar said that when he was told that at least one of these things came from an archaeological dig. Like, what? What? What do you mean? He's like, that's what they were telling me. I don't know. But they told me that one of them was from an archaeological dig. So these things are really old.

23:21Joe Rogan:Dude, and his accuracy with the element 118, 115, something like that.

23:27Raul Bilecky:From 1989 when element 115 wasn't even discovered until the 2000s.

23:34Joe Rogan:I mean, that's why when he's – I forget who I was talking to outside, but we were talking about – I think it was talking to Jamie about that, about Bob Lazar talking about some of these things coming from archaeological sites.

23:48Raul Bilecky:Yeah.

23:49Joe Rogan:Let's go find it. Right. You know what I mean? Well, that's where it gets really weird.

23:54Raul Bilecky:Where it gets really weird is these mummies.

23:57Joe Rogan:We're going to go to the mummies. What are you going there, Jamie?

24:00Raul Bilecky:Eric Burleson, a representative, talking about how he's asked the White House to give DOD the power to let them go see this stuff, including a buried UFO. Portedly, an object that is not in this country, that is so large it cannot be moved, that they've built an entire building around it. And I think that I think either Greer or another individual has actually mentioned this site, but I'm not going to mention it because it is a classified location. But there is a really apparent there's reported a really large object. And that's one of the locations that I'm requesting to get to. It's going to involve a lot to get to make that happen.

24:43Raul Bilecky:But that may be the final destination. Shit like that makes me want to run for president. Because that's all I would care about. The economy would be in shambles. I'd be like, show me the UFOs.

24:54Joe Rogan:Do you think they'd do it? Because I've heard that like the— No, they'd kill me. I mean, on that need-to-know basis where they're keeping stuff from presidents, you know. Kennedy got too close.

25:05Raul Bilecky:I don't think that's what they killed Kennedy for, but I think there's a bunch of things. No, there's a whole lot of layers. Yeah, but the UFO people love to think that it's UFOs is why they killed Kennedy. But they think everything's UFOs. But it definitely seems like I don't know about the evidence because it's just stories. And that's the problem is that a lot of this stuff, and this is how I feel when a lot of people come on the podcast and talk to me, supposed whistleblowers. Some of them I think are legitimate, and some of them I think are disinformation specialists. I think they're designed to muddy up the water, and this is what they're saying is designed to muddy up the water.

25:48Raul Bilecky:And that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to make a lot of this stuff look silly and push certain narratives and just create confusion. And I think a lot of it is probably some black budget, weird science stuff that we have. But then it begs the question, where'd you get that? Is that really like the Diana Posolka work where she's talking about they're essentially these things are donations? and that we're supposed to, like, take these things and try to figure it out. And then you look at some of the creation of some different inventions that happened very quickly after Roswell. Yeah.

26:27Joe Rogan:Our civilization just, I mean, just been on a boom ever since.

26:33Raul Bilecky:Yeah, weird stuff. Like the fiber optic stuff and transistors, just the history of the creation of the transistor and the people that were involved in it. It seems awful fucking fishy. I mean, I try to stick with evidence that I can make out tangibly, and it just gets so murky, like you said. All of this gets so murky that I don't know how the truth would even land. Well, the truth would have to land if there was an overall comprehensive effort by all of the world governments. and there would have to be some sort of unity in this and some sort of like a recognition that this is really important for the entire human population to understand our past.

27:26Raul Bilecky:And if this is nonsense, let's find out that it's nonsense. And if this is real, this changes everything. And when you look at just look at the vastness of the cosmos, it's not outside of the realm of possibility that this stuff either came from somewhere else or was here. Because they were here. That there was an advanced civilization here, whether it's our civilization or whatever the hell those mummies are. Because the tridactyl mummies are weird. That stuff's weird.

27:58Joe Rogan:We can talk about that because I did a deep dive with my friend Will. And there is too much amok going on with these things for me to objectively say that they are what people are claiming them to be. There's too much wrong with the picture.

28:20Raul Bilecky:Right. Well, first of all, a lot of them are fake. Yeah. For sure. Oh, yeah. A lot of them people have seemingly created with a bunch of different animal bones. And human bones. And human bones. And pieced them together. But then there's the weird ones, you know, there's the weird ones that are mummified and they're in the fetal position and you see a structure that doesn't exist in the human body. But it's complete with tendons and ligaments and some of them have eggs inside of them.

28:50Joe Rogan:Joe, I'm telling you, man, I look, I want to believe. Do you think it's bullshit? I think it is much closer to bullshit than it is. All of them? I think what we're dealing with here are real human beings from the past. They are ancient that have been put together. Will from Incredible History has done some amazing work with some amazing specialists. I mean, people at the top of their field on this stuff, looking at the x-rays and the DICOM files and calling out cuts, calling out incisions that were made, calling out why things don't make sense. And for me, the reason I put out my last video on the Nazca mummies is because there's this whole other narrative, too, of where the money is, who's making money off of these things.

29:39Joe Rogan:And I think that—

29:40Raul Bilecky:Is there money being made off those little mummies?

29:44Joe Rogan:Please. You got something? Yeah. So I remember—I forget who you were talking to. It might have been Jesse Michaels. but I remember you saying, you know, these are one of the greatest art projects if they were fake. Right. Well, if you just scroll to the right here, this is what the -

30:07Raul Bilecky:That's the goofy one.

30:08Joe Rogan:Yeah, but that's what the walkero is selling. He sent that to me personally, the guy selling these things. These goofy-ass - So this is for people at home. You can't see it? There's a folder on there that has the pictures in the photos. These are the goofy ones.

30:22Raul Bilecky:But what is the one that is the female that's in the... Maria. Is that what they're called? Yeah.

30:29Joe Rogan:Maria is one of them. I mean, so Will had on Dr. William Morrison and Dr. Proctor, Dr. Wilson. I mean, like people in the top of their field analyzing these things and... This one looks fake as fuck. Yeah, everybody. You can get this for$15 ,000. This comes directly from the Joaquero finding these things, by the way.

30:54Raul Bilecky:Yeah.

30:54Joe Rogan:I did like a little undercover thing trying to see what I could lure out of him. This is not particularly compelling to me. But it's in the same class coming from the same place, supposedly. The same group of people are providing these things to the – yeah, this is in the Ica Museum. This is where they're housed.

31:18Raul Bilecky:The Montserrat, is that what the... Montserrat, yeah.

31:21Joe Rogan:Montserrat.

31:22Raul Bilecky:So these are, like, again, these are not that compelling to me.

31:26Joe Rogan:The small ones, no. The big ones, so the big ones, though, are... Gosh, they keep coming out with new specimens. There's a new one, Antonio, who's a teenage boy, except for his feet. His feet have arthritis in them, And and which indicates that they put the foot bones of another specimen on this thing. Now, what these doctors have done, look, and here's the thing. I mean, I want to I would love nothing more than of course Peru to be the hot spot of some new species. I don't think we're alone. I don't think we've identified every species. but also I'm not putting my money on these things coming out as authentic.

32:11Joe Rogan:I think they have been used with authentic bones, which is why they're getting the dates. I think that... Dude, I did a deep dive on this stuff. Please go. No, feel free. Tell me. Tell me what you found out. I initially wasn't going to make the video I did, but after spending days staying up doing this research, which I just, I couldn't not do it. And I found, like, I even watched the whole Gaia series on this stuff, and I found myself, like, getting entranced by the, like, maybe, maybe. And then also watching. The whole reason of putting this stuff out there is, like, look, make your own decision, but don't just take in the fantasy.

32:53Joe Rogan:Take in the other possibilities, too. And just have all the information before you make your decision.

32:58Raul Bilecky:Well, clearly we know some of them are fake. clearly clearly you know even people like me who want so desperately to believe and it's also the the corresponding artwork from the past the three-toed three-fingered artwork which is weird

33:16Joe Rogan:that is that is weird and i saw some of those geoglyphs down there in the middle of nowhere you know these and so um and then the whole thing with you know the uh with james fox and the the Brazil incident and that thing, you know, the, the, the three finger thing is a weird thing in history. With these bones, I mean, I'm going to have to point you to some of, some of the videos that, that these specialists have come out analyzing the, the files. So, but where the money is, is exactly what's happening now. It's, it's, we have this possibility. We're going to make a show about it. We're going to put out this new thing.

34:04Joe Rogan:We're going to, it goes, it goes deep, Joe. The same doctors, the same specialists that are verifying currently the Nazca mummies have been on the same team for the past 20 years, verifying other species and specimens that they, alien hybrids. hybrids and say the same people literally my whole video i'm just like this is what he said in 20 2007 this is what he said about this fake thing in 2012 this is what he said about the fake thing in 2017 and i put it back to back so it's the same narrative same people it's the same people the

34:40Raul Bilecky:same narrative and so you think that the construction has just gotten more sophisticated 100 100 they learn what is that the the major one maria and uh montserrat Well, let's find Montserrat and see the Jesse Michael stuff because he went down there and looked at them and they did scans on the bodies.

35:03Joe Rogan:And then I have a link to, I think it's Dr. Morrison talking about Montserrat's feet, the x-rays of his feet and pointing out. That's on the spreadsheet.

35:15Raul Bilecky:Well, let's see that. I'd like to see that. So do you think that these are recent creations of old bones? Is that what it is? That's what I think. Okay. And how do you think they did it? Is there any speculation? I think that... So there... So here's the... I'm going to cut them off. What's that, Jimmy? I just asked them a question. I cut them off. Oh. How do you think they did it?

35:39Joe Rogan:How do you think they did it? Well, I think that they... I think they've gotten very good with taxidermy.

35:48Raul Bilecky:right like because we've seen that before where you take like an owl and you attach it to an

35:52Joe Rogan:iguana in fact in in the research i did there was this dude there was this demon fairy thing in 2017 if you want to pull up my video let's start with this let's start with this we'll get to the demon very thick too this is wild so meta okay um this is a from a surface scan that was available

36:14Raul Bilecky:and i went in and just kind of removed some of the fuzziness so that i could highlight the bones and one of the things again that you notice is that the joints have a lot of spacing between them these are not joints that are in contact so they're dislocated um now the main the main part here this the central area where the cuneiforms are in the cuboid those articulate with five metatarsals normally the way the way these are lettered a would go with the big toe and e would go with the little toe and again just like in maria those are missing but the joints are not lined up properly the shapes of the joints don't don't go with the matching bone on the cuneiforms of the cuboid um that's exactly what i was seeing in ct so none of the articulations of the at the metatarsal junction really made any sense and some of the bones didn't even meet an articular surface at all so that jumped out to me immediately because then my first um question goes to how would that even be a functional foot so Montserrat that's so that's why does Montserrat have tendons click on that keep it going a little bit where I thought I saw the razory section um because people were talking about there still being tendons and stuff intact and I would agree that some of those metatarsals are as Dr.

37:46Raul Bilecky:Proctor pointed out in the correct position but then some are just missing so if you wanted to elevate the illusion one of the ways you could do that would be by performing a raised resection and essentially that's a function conserving surgery where if you've had damage to your metacarpals or your metatarsals they'll remove that metacarpal or metatarsal and kind of rearrange your fingers or your toes and the remaining metacarpals to keep your limb functioning so her feet Montserrat's feet were just a little bit different where I think

38:19Joe Rogan:they might have used more um complex procedure like that versus Maria where her feet just looked more like um arts and crafts to my eye so and that's the so Maria came up if these things are are are hoaxes there is also if we're just going with that angle there's a clear evolution of the work that goes into them behind the scenes. Like that one came out after the first one. The first one got called out on a whole bunch of things. All of a sudden the next iteration doesn't have the same issues.

38:55Raul Bilecky:Oh, right. They're correcting. Yeah. And that's actually, I forget, there was an archaeologist on X.

39:02Joe Rogan:He said that's very common in the world of fake antiquities. Like they learn. Once they get called out on something, they'll figure out how to make the pottery better or something like that.

39:12Raul Bilecky:Is there a lot of money in this stuff?

39:14Joe Rogan:Yeah. I mean, apparently. Where's the money coming from? How does it? For me, it's not even in the sale. The most money coming from this is not in the sale of these things. It's in the shows that come from it. It's in the series. It's in the subscriptions to get to the next season where they're going to finally reveal the truth about it. There's a lot of money being made in the background. And that's part of the deep dive I went on, like following the money. So who do you think is making them? Do you have a theory? I believe that there's actually – it was in my video and one of Will's videos. There was a grave robber, a whistleblower grave robber who was part of this team.

40:01and he shares how he was getting stuff for Mario, like the main guy.

40:09Joe Rogan:There's got to be a team of specialists working on this stuff. And, I mean, money went into making these things because money is going to come from it. It seems like a lot of money, though. Yeah.

40:21Raul Bilecky:But you would think that that would kind of fall apart. I would.

40:26Joe Rogan:It is falling apart.

40:28Raul Bilecky:But it is under scans. But I would say like someone would rat somebody out. These are inscrupulous.

40:35Joe Rogan:So that's part of the reason I also decided to make this video. And a lot of the pushback on this stuff is like, oh, you don't you don't trust, you know, Latin American doctors or anything. No, it's not that it's Latin American doctors from Peru and journalists from. They're afraid to talk about this stuff because things can get violent down there surrounding this topic.

41:01Raul Bilecky:Article from 2012 about a mummy being stolen, and it goes on to talk about— There's a—I said right at the bottom of it.

41:13Joe Rogan:The Eka Mafia.

41:13Raul Bilecky:Yeah, there's a mafia.

41:14Joe Rogan:The Eka Mafia. And in fact— Eka Mafia. The guy Mario who—

41:19Raul Bilecky:There you go. Officials have warned about the existence of a mafia dedicated to the trade with links throughout Southern America and Europe. And at the time, it was$18 million a year in stolen archaeological artifacts Peru estimated was being taken out of the country. So this is all going to like wealthy people in other countries that want to have these artifacts in their homes? Yeah.

41:38Joe Rogan:I've seen the text messages with some of the American buyers.

41:41Raul Bilecky:Really?

41:42Joe Rogan:Yeah.

41:43Raul Bilecky:So these guys are just like, come on into my den. I'm going to show you a mummy.

41:48Joe Rogan:What I'm talking about specifically was tapestries and it was actually the guy I met in the Artesanalis in Miraflores. And he showed me video. He was very open with me. He showed me videos of – because the buyers want to see provenance. The buyers want to see them pulling the artifacts out of the ground. Right.

42:10Raul Bilecky:So they just bury them and then they – Well, no. I mean – That sells the stuff. mummy crowdfunder leaves archaeologists fuming. So there's a guy in London that's selling this stuff? The Victor Wind Museum in London. Huh. Cabinet dedicated to dead people. And they were trying to get a mummy from Peru. Wow. What do you think is going on with the skulls, the elongated skulls?

42:38Joe Rogan:Jamie, I have a...

42:44I think that that's one I found.

42:47Joe Rogan:So here's one.

42:48Raul Bilecky:You found that one?

42:49Joe Rogan:Oh, yeah. That's one of three I've come across.

42:53Raul Bilecky:Now, supposedly there's a difference in the way the skull, you know, when you're a child, what is it called? The sagittal sutures, yeah.

43:01Joe Rogan:I found some without the – every elongated skull that I've – the three I've come across all had the sagittal – all had that suture. Like a normal human does.

43:13Raul Bilecky:Like a normal human. So these would be from pressing boards on the child's head when they're in development? Yeah. Binding?

43:20Joe Rogan:Yeah. But then the question is why would you do that? Right. And, I mean, I err on the side of you don't just come up with that. You're trying to imitate something. Right. And so that's – and then you see it in Egypt and the hieroglyphs and stuff. So I do think like there is – you know, there's – we've labeled things other species with just a bone fragment. I'm like there's deserts of these things and I think that if the right study went to them, you might have a separate species if you put the money towards studying this stuff because it's all out there, man.

44:00Raul Bilecky:Right, like a separate branch of the human species?

44:03Joe Rogan:Possibly, yeah.

44:04Raul Bilecky:Right, which makes sense. I mean, they're finding separate branches all the time. All the time. The Denisovans, you know, all these different ones that they've found within the last 20 years. And there could be something with a larger head, an elongated head.

44:19Joe Rogan:Yep. And that's the, I don't know enough about osteo-whatever to go in depth about it, but it, I mean, And either you had whole cultures just doing this or there's too many of them for it to have just been kind of some elitist practice, I think.

44:39Raul Bilecky:And a bizarre practice at that. Why would you want to do that to your kid's head when clearly it's probably not been done to your head, at least the first people? Like what were you trying to imitate?

44:51Joe Rogan:I forget who told me this. There is some – I think Will told me this. there's some woman who did this practice on herself, like actually trepanated her own head. Yeah, we talked about that. Yeah.

45:07Raul Bilecky:Well, we've talked about trepanation when we had that woman on to herself.

45:12Joe Rogan:Okay, well, wait, so you had her on?

45:14Raul Bilecky:Yeah, well, a woman who did, what was her name again? The psychedelic lady. She's, I believe she passed, didn't she? Recently. Really fascinating woman. Amanda Fielding. Amanda Fielding. She died recently, right? Yeah. But she did self-trepanation. She did self-trepanation. But that's not elongation of the skull. No, but there's an idea that what that trepanation might have done.

45:45Joe Rogan:In the ancient days, they did it to release the evil spirits if somebody was afflicted with some sort of psychosis or something like that. But – and I forget if it was Amanda. Something happens with your brain waves when, like, the brain is exposed or something. Like, there's some sort of – I don't know.

46:06Raul Bilecky:How the fuck do you find that out without doing it?

46:08Joe Rogan:But if the skull is elongated, I don't know if it gives extra space to – I forget who told me this. It changes the chemical structure of the brain that like kind of like a DMT experience. You're open to more things. And so an idea is that if you elongated it and had that extra space in the skull for the brain to have more oxygen, I guess, maybe it affects your brain chemistry. I don't know.

46:43Raul Bilecky:Just pure speculation. Pure speculation. But one of the things about some of these skulls they found is that the volume is larger than a human brain. That's true. So how would you do that just by stretching it out with boards? I mean, it would seem like you have the same volume, you're just changing the shape of it, right?

47:02Joe Rogan:Yeah, but there are some, like you said, that have more volume, that would appear to have more volume.

47:06Raul Bilecky:And have there been no studies on these weird ones, the ones that don't have those sagittal lines that correspond with human veys? Because some of them don't, right? Fringe studies, I think. That's the problem. That is the problem. What are we looking at? Are we looking at an animal head that they've kind of like shoved onto like human features and glued things together? Oh, with the mummies?

47:28Joe Rogan:I mean, some of these skulls. Well, I mean, some of the – like the one you just saw. I mean, they're there. they're just out in the desert I don't know why funding hasn't been and you found them just sitting there and you just leave them there I put a pin on eventually one day I would like to I don't know form some sort of relationship with the ministry of culture because the thing is nobody's going out there and I specifically went to places this last expedition that I went the first year just to see what happened a year later And those places were looted even more. The things I had found and come across and documented like an elongated skull wasn't there anymore.

48:09Joe Rogan:So these things are being taken and sold. Makes you wonder how much of it was there in the past. Dude. I mean, I don't – like that eight kilometers of looting, it was all bones and textile and pottery. I mean just eight full kilometers. and like so it's an eight kilometer graveyard yeah yeah um when i'm looking up trepanation

48:38Raul Bilecky:that's a weird one this elongated skull is coming up apparently this one is in oklahoma museum of some kind that's the one that looks like it's had surgery on it and there's like some sort of a metal implant and it's come up in that in that context like this one's coming up too but what they're saying is that the metal implant is used after trepanation has been done to sort of patch the bone.

48:59Joe Rogan:Sometimes that has been documented as happening. What kind of metal are they using on your fucking head?

49:05Raul Bilecky:Well, that's the weird thing, too, because that metal has come up in the skull scans on, like, Montserrat. I don't know which one in particular had it, but they're saying it's got, like, metal that wasn't available, you know. What's that one on the lower left-hand corner? That one looks crazy. Oh, that's the Chungo skull. What's that? Okay, so that one looks different. Yeah, that's...

49:23Joe Rogan:It says it's in Paracas. I mean, that's... Click on that? It's very close to where I found the one I showed you from my footage.

49:29Raul Bilecky:Okay, that skull looks nuts. So that doesn't look like a human skull at all. No. That one is... Like, look at the lines on that one. That's fucking crazy. That doesn't seem like it has any of the normal lines that a human skull has.

49:46Joe Rogan:The museum, unfortunately, is closed now, so you can't go see it. I tried to. Well, where is it? It was in... The Ministry of Culture shut down that museum.

49:57Raul Bilecky:Oh, the collection of an exceptionally elongated skulls found in Paracas, particularly around the village of Changos near Pisco, dating to around 700 BCE to 200 CE. His skulls exhibit severe artificial cranial deformation, practice used by elite Paracas culture members to signify status. Huh. That is the one we just saw in that museum is the largest one. But it's weirdly large. Can you find some more images of that one?

50:34Joe Rogan:I was trying to find some other stuff that's not three years old or older.

50:37Raul Bilecky:That's okay. Let's just see the images of it. It might be hard for that one since the museum closed. Right, but there's images. Yeah. So that looks like it's a lot more volume than a human head. The one on the far left, yeah, either one, the one below it. And like that, just the image alone of that, how do you get a normal human head to be that large?

51:00Joe Rogan:Without some sort of –

51:02Raul Bilecky:It looks like you stuffed a balloon into someone's eyeball and kept pumping it up while they're a baby. Like what the hell is that? That's so much bigger than a normal human skull.

51:14Joe Rogan:And then you think if it, you know, with the skull binding practice, I mean, is there going to be some form of mental difficulties with that human being now?

51:26Raul Bilecky:Or expanded capacity. Or expanded, yeah. Yeah. So the cranial capacity is 25 % more than a normal skull. It weighs 50 % or 60 % more than a normal skull. Also, the eye sockets are larger and the jaw is larger and more compact God that looks like a different kind of human

51:50Joe Rogan:So there's there are and when you go to these museums, there's all sorts of there's what's that one up there? The one to the right of your cursor.

51:58Raul Bilecky:What the fuck is that is that real? That's why I was I didn't want to go Whoa a bunch of fake shit too. That's why I was trying to is that fake? I haven't seen that one before I don't mean it taking me to Facebook is already a big red flag yeah I know Facebook is a hub of fake shit oh man I can't escape it on that it's the same picture so a lot of them are probably AI generated but that one that's 25 % larger than a normal human skull and larger eyes the eye sockets are fucking huge that's also weird it's just like that's the problem with all this looting that's been going on for so many years it's like they there might have been some evidence of a different kind of human that lived with these people and i mean imagine if we find out that that different kind of human was what populated that area and they were the people that built saksehuaman and because they paracas isn't paracas

52:57Joe Rogan:is the highest concentration of the ones that have been found, but you find them up in the Cuzco region too. There's a video I have, I think it's Chisniri, C-H-I-S-I-N.

53:16Raul Bilecky:Can I ask you, what is the conventional explanation for the larger capacity of the skull and then the larger eyeballs, the eye sockets?

53:26Joe Rogan:I don't know that there is a conventional explanation other than -

53:29Raul Bilecky:It seems like you would have to explain that. Like if that's not something different than homo sapien human being like you or me, what is that? That seems that's a different thing, right? You would think. Right. Like if you look at a Neanderthal skull and you look, mine's pretty close to one, but But if you look at a Neanderthal skull and a normal human skull, you can clearly see the Denisovans. You clearly see the difference. Homo julians. You see the difference. That's different, man.

53:58Joe Rogan:It's different. And some of this stuff in their jaws and with like the set of teeth, there's differences. I mean, I haven't done a deep dive into it personally. But there are a multitude of differences that have been highlighted.

54:14Raul Bilecky:And for people that are skeptical, one thing you have to recognize is that it's really hard to make a fossil. Fossils, I mean, most things that die and have died forever do not become fossils. They get consumed by the earth like a normal thing would. You know, that's why you don't find.

54:34Joe Rogan:I mean, yeah, yeah. And I mean, if you're talking about going back 10 ,000 years, that's why you're not you're not seeing much evidence of stuff. I mean, it's been so long. It's gone. These things are preserved because they're between at most, typically at most, 2 ,000-ish years in that region old. They're preserved so well because of the climate there, which is, I mean, when you're going in these barrows, you still see the hair of people. It hasn't disintegrated. It's there. God, it's so creepy. Dude, I have some creepy photos for you, man. I don't know. You might want to put a disclaimer out before we show it.

55:12Joe Rogan:No, show them. People know on this show. You don't need a disclaimer.

55:15Raul Bilecky:Here's a quick question. I found a video of a guy with an elongated skull. He's talking about these and showing it. I'm just, size of reference to his hand. Does the skull seem small? It does. Unless he's got some giant-ass basketball player hands.

55:29Joe Rogan:That's kind of the size of the one I showed you earlier. It was smaller than you would think.

55:34Raul Bilecky:But a lot of the people there back then were very small, right? They didn't have access to a lot of protein. Like I went to Chichen Itza and one of the weirder things is how small the people are there. How small the Mayan people are. I'm short already and I was a giant compared to these people. It was really weird.

55:53Joe Rogan:It's typically the same.

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56:35Joe Rogan:Same in Peru until when the Spanish came. Hmm. And then the interbreeding. And then interbreeding, yeah. Yeah. But if you go, Jamie, if you just open up the photos remains folder, this is the stuff you see. I mean, there's still skin on some of these things. Whoa. Which is why. Whoa. That's creepy. Yeah, man. And how old is that hand? Probably, I mean, at this burial site, based on the artifacts I was seeing, it's Paracas or Nazca.

57:10Raul Bilecky:Go back one, Jamie, please. Yeah, yeah. Hold on a second. Look at the cloth next to it, too. So what is that piece of cloth, you think?

57:18Joe Rogan:Ah. It's like it's braided at the bottom and then the— I didn't see a hole in the middle, so I don't think it was a—and it's too fancy for a sling, I think. So I'm not 100 % sure. Unless it's a fancy sling. It could be, yeah.

57:32Raul Bilecky:Fancy bows and arrows, fancy guns. True, true. Look at the hand, man. That's so great.

57:38Joe Rogan:And what you see to the right of it is what kind of looks like burlap. I mean, that's what the mummies were wrapped in. They were stuffed with cotton or put in the fetal position, wrapped with textile, then cotton, then more textile and ropes. And that's some of the cotton and wrapping.

57:56Raul Bilecky:The grave robbers had torn apart trying to find gold and jewels and things like that.

58:02Joe Rogan:And what's unfortunate is some of the most beautiful pottery there, too. It's just completely destroyed. Wow. Whoa.

58:11Raul Bilecky:Look at all those bones. You found this? Yeah. God, that's got to be creepy just seeing all those dead people's bones and rope.

58:19Joe Rogan:It affects you, man. It definitely does.

58:25Raul Bilecky:And what's the time period of this? This is... um

58:31Joe Rogan:2 ,000 years?

58:35Joe Rogan:That picture actually isn't from Nazca. That was another... I have a video of this to show you. This place.

58:43Raul Bilecky:There's just so much weirdness about Peru. Just the Nazca lines alone. Like, what were they doing? Why were you making artwork you can only see from the sky? That's crazy. Oh, look at the hair. That's nuts. Oh.

59:02Joe Rogan:Normal size skull though. Actually, that one, I don't have the pictures in that folder, but I measured it. It's incredibly bulbous. It's much more bulbous than a normal skull.

59:14Raul Bilecky:So you're just getting a side view of it?

59:16Joe Rogan:Yeah, and I put the tape measurer there next to it.

59:22Raul Bilecky:That's crazy. You see the skin. Yeah, isn't it? The skin and the hair on the skull. Oh, God, that's creepy.

59:32Joe Rogan:It's why, yeah. I mean, that, you know, I thought that I had gotten, this is another thing that's been set up. And you think the grave robbers do this? You know, there were some places where I found things set up like this with little candy, little modern candies. And what that is, is it's a tradition called Pago La Tierra, paying the land. And so whoever left the candy, I don't think was a grave robber, was probably a local. And it's a way of giving back to the land, giving back to the ancestors. I started doing that with, you know, if I had a soda bottle or something, you pour out some Coca-Cola, pay the land for walking to it and documenting the stuff.

1:00:19Joe Rogan:It was a nice little practice. But so the – I would say that like 2 ,000-ish years old, just to circle back. So some of these things, this is all on the surface. I don't go digging. That's not on me. But the Wakeros do. And that's where they're finding these things intact. They're finding these things intact where you can put them into a CT scanner, And it's going to show the whole insides.

1:00:55Raul Bilecky:Have any paleontologists or archaeologists brought these skulls and brought them for examination to try to find out if there's intact DNA that can be studied?

1:01:09Joe Rogan:They're supposed to be doing DNA tests on six of the specimens. But if you watch my video, you'll see each time they've done DNA tests on all the hoaxes that they've been a part of before, I imagine the results are going to be the same.

1:01:23Raul Bilecky:Yeah, but I don't mean the hoaxes. I mean the elongated skulls with large eye sockets, things along those lines.

1:01:29Joe Rogan:You know, there is a lot of the bureaucracy of how to go about doing anything with the Ministry of Culture in Peru is – it's so disjointed. you can't get things done. You just can't get... I know Brian Forrester for decades was trying to get some sort of official path to do DNA studies on these things. And so, I mean, I'm hoping with the work that I'm doing with Pillars of the Past that some of those boundaries can be broken where we can actually get permission to study these things because it's Peru's patrimony. You can't just go in there and, you know... Right, that makes sense. And it costs money to do those things too.

1:02:15Joe Rogan:And you have to do it in the above board way. And so it's kind of waiting for the okay from them.

1:02:22Raul Bilecky:Well, it seems like at the very least, the most bizarre elongated skulls should be studied more closely. It shouldn't just be like, oh, it's in a museum. Look at the head. Big, huh? Weird eyes. Let's move on. Look at this bowl. It's broken, but pretty interesting. Let's move on. Like, no, what the fuck is going on with that? Put some money, figure it out. Because if it turns out that there was a totally different branch of the human species. It's huge.

1:02:49Joe Rogan:It's huge.

1:02:52Raul Bilecky:What's up?

1:02:53Joe Rogan:I don't know the accuracy. That's why I'm hesitant to even bring it up.

1:02:55Raul Bilecky:But as you're asking about that, that video I pulled up, this guy said that they tested 12 or 18 skulls.

1:03:02Joe Rogan:That's Forrester.

1:03:04Raul Bilecky:And some of them came back as Native American. and I'm reading the closed captioning,

1:03:09Joe Rogan:but some of them did not. Some of them came back from the Black Sea area. Yeah, the Caspian Sea, Black Sea area from 2 ,000 to 3 ,000 years ago. Which there have been skulls found out in those areas too. Wow.

1:03:23Raul Bilecky:I don't know. Black and Caspian Seas, as in the Caucasus Mountains. Whoa. So that's very intriguing. What I can also share with you is what I believe was the migrational pattern, because these people, like some indigenous people of the Caspian area and Black Sea area, were and are dark red-haired and also very light skin and green eyes. And this seems to correspond as well with the elongated skulls. So I believe what happened about 3 ,000 years ago, the ancestors of the Paracas decided to leave the area because they were being invaded by someone. And so they traveled south through Iraq and Iran to the Persian Gulf, and there they wound up sailing eastwards and eventually found their way to the coast of Peru.

1:04:19They're different...

1:04:21Joe Rogan:That's speculation. Yeah. So that's the thing. With theories like this, I'm like, let's put some effort to peer review this stuff. You know, like, let's do the studies that are needed, have multiple universities test these things, come up with a standard set of results, and then, I mean—

1:04:40Raul Bilecky:So what is missing? Funding? Interest? It seems like this is—in terms of, like, really doing a comprehensive study of archaeological sites, Peru seems like the least studied. Is that accurate?

1:04:58Joe Rogan:Halfway, I would say, only because there's a part of me that also feels for the ministry of culture in a way where there's so many sites in Peru that to have eyes everywhere, to protect it, to have teams excavating things.

1:05:17Raul Bilecky:Isn't that alone kind of crazy, how many sites there are in Peru? And the fact that also you have Sokse Hwaman, you have the Nazca Lines, you have all this weirdness in this one part of the world. Like, why?

1:05:33Joe Rogan:You have the oldest stone pyramids in the Americas, pyramids that predate the pyramids of Giza by a thousand years. What do they look like? If you look up Koral, they are – dude, I've done a whole thesis on this. I plan to write a – I don't think I'll ever get it peer-reviewed, but I plan to write a paper about my theories on some of the stuff I found. So Corral was this area on the coast. It's C-A-R-A-L. And these pyramids had – Graham Hancock has been looking into this stuff too. This sunken circular plaza. So they're just – this is a – whoa.

1:06:15Raul Bilecky:This predates Giza. Well, what we think is the day of Giza.

1:06:19Joe Rogan:The great pyramids. Conventional. The conventional dating. Right. So, all right, let's see if I can condense this. Okay. This site has, I don't know, eight of these pyramids. They're actually all throughout the valley and four valleys around it. The earliest one in a separate valley close to this dates back to 4000 BCE. It has the remnants of a sunken circle. So the main thing to keep note of is that sunken circular plaza because it's a feature that you not only see there in those four valleys, but you also see it 200 kilometers north of Peru.

1:06:56Raul Bilecky:And what's the conventional explanation for these sunken circular plazas?

1:07:00Joe Rogan:Ritual spaces. Some people say collecting water. Some people say the acoustics are different. Here's the interesting thing about it. This site was discovered in the 1940s. Wow, look at that artwork. Nobody did anything about it. The archaeology, this is what happens in Peru. From the 1900s, early 1900s to 1940s, archaeologists and historians were going up and down the coast finding stuff. I mean, just finding stuff. And they would write it down. They'd put it on the map. That's why the Ministry of Culture has it on their archaeological database. they'd pick through it what they could, put stuff in museums, and just move on.

1:07:43That site, Corral, predated any ceramics.

1:07:47Joe Rogan:I mean, this was a pre-ceramic culture, so there were no artifacts to find. So they just moved on. It wasn't until Dr. Ruth Shady in, like, the 80s and 90s actually put research in and figured out, hey, this is older than everything else we found because they just overlooked it. There were no artifacts. They were just like, we're going to move on.

1:08:10Raul Bilecky:When you say no artifacts, like that seems weird to me because like why would you make these immense structures and not have a bowl to put rice in, right?

1:08:19Joe Rogan:A lot of animal skins and the weaving.

1:08:27Joe Rogan:So these cultures, what they found is – so that's a little further inland. They had a sister site on the coast. And so what they would do, the only agriculture they would grow was cotton. That cotton, they would trade with the people on the coast so they could make nets and fish with it. The fish they would bring back, they would give back to those people who made the cotton for them. So it was this weird interplay. The other unique thing about this time period is there was no evidence of warfare for 1 ,000 years. Nobody was fighting each other. It was very just everybody, no weapons, no anything like that.

1:09:06Joe Rogan:No weapons? No weapons for a thousand years. That seems insane.

1:09:10Raul Bilecky:Is that just no evidence of weapons? That's currently no evidence of weapons. Right, but maybe someone stole the weapons. That's possible. Because, I mean, you're talking about a place that's been looted ad nauseum, right?

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1:10:22Joe Rogan:That's true. I mean, they put in a lot of work, though, Excavate. Especially that site, Corral.

1:10:27Raul Bilecky:So you feel like somewhere they would find some sort of an axe head?

1:10:31Joe Rogan:They found the only artifacts of major note are some of those carvings that we saw and then bone flutes with carvings on them and the nets, the fishing nets. And my whole theory is this was a pocket. It's called the Norte Chico culture. It's a little pocket of these four valleys. And I went all over them documenting these pyramids. They don't look like pyramids anymore. They look like mounds. They're so old. But there's another place 200 kilometers north in the Chasma Valley. And what they have found is underneath the structures that are currently exposed, they found deeper layers of temples with that sunken plaza in this whole other location.

1:11:23Joe Rogan:And those are dating to the same time. So I firmly believe that what archaeologists currently say is the oldest culture, I believe it went the whole coast of Peru. Wow. I mean, like, this was a cradle of civilization. I mean, hands down. Cradle of civilization 6 ,000 years ago.

1:11:44Raul Bilecky:6 ,000 years ago. So which is right around the time we think the cradle of civilization happened in Sumer. Yeah. Wow. Wow. And so the hard thing about it is like you'll have some carvings in adobe that's been preserved in some of these places.

1:12:01Joe Rogan:So there's some sort of iconography. But there's no writing like the Sumerian. The whole thing about Peru is like there was no writing system that we know of. There is a theory, and I believe this. I believe the kippus, the rope strings with knots. Yeah. I believe that was a language. But the Spanish burnt as – as soon as the Spanish came over, they burned as many of those things as they could find and they killed the people who could read them. So we won't ever know.

1:12:32Raul Bilecky:Oh, God, Spaniards. How dare you?

1:12:35Joe Rogan:But there's like – there's evidence that they would – they took some of the Incas to the Spanish court. And so there's an Inca in the Spanish court in front of the queen or king reading off of these kippus, reading stories, telling the court. From knots on strength. From knots on strings. Yeah.

1:12:54Raul Bilecky:And that understanding of that stuff is lost.

1:12:57Joe Rogan:It's lost. Currently, I think for the last few years, there's been some studies being done in Harvard trying to use AI to figure out what these – I mean – How many of these are left over?

1:13:10Raul Bilecky:Can we see some images of them?

1:13:12Joe Rogan:I think 500 to 1 ,000. I mean, that's it. I mean, the Spanish went on a mission to burn all these things.

1:13:19Raul Bilecky:Because they were trying to convert them to Spanish and get them to speak the language and become Catholic. Pretty much. Yeah.

1:13:28Joe Rogan:Yeah. And so much history is lost because of it. Yeah. So it's – but what's interesting is at that oldest place, at Corral, they found a quipu. They found one of these knotted strings. And it wasn't a fishing net. It was what looked to be a quipu. So if you have that tradition going back 6 ,000 years, I mean, that's – there's a lot of – This picture is from 1994. This is what it looked like then. It doesn't look like anything. See that on the right, those pits? Yeah. That's looting pits.

1:14:06Raul Bilecky:And now, wow. That's what it looks like from above here. And I was looking at a map. Oh, so they got to dig it up. This is the map from above. Wow. It's a pretty big area.

1:14:20Joe Rogan:Why is ancient history so damn fascinating? If you go on my spreadsheet, there's a place called Era de... What is it? I'm looking at my notes here. Sunken Plaza Era de Pando. It's a link to my YouTube. So this, what we're about to see is right across the valley from Corral. So all throughout that valley are these sites from that Norte Chico culture. And I'm like right there on top of this pyramid and just the drone footage is epic, man. Wow. So I went on a mission looking for these places. That's it.

1:14:58Raul Bilecky:The thing about this that is so compelling but also so unsatisfying is that a lot of these stories, you're never going to get the full answer. No. You're never going to get the full history. it's just the mystery will never be satisfied you're always going to be hungry you know which is is that for a person like yourself that studies these places and has dedicated so much time to it is that in any way frustrating or does it add to the appeal both

1:15:34Raul Bilecky:well I got a 6 ,000 year old site there's no one there with you at all it looks like no one can stop you from taking this guy. Whoa, look at that. So this is you with a drone?

1:15:49Joe Rogan:Yeah, this is just me. I actually spoke to an archaeologist who told me to go to that place and so I went and I was the only one there. Wow. My whole thing was I identified most of these places through Google Earth first. They're not labeled. These places aren't labeled at all. That's crazy. So these aren't documented places? No, this is. This one place right here is? It's not on Google Earth, though. It's not on Google Maps. You won't see any marker of it. But I was able to do some digging because of the guy who took me through the site. I meet this random guy, Luis. Luis is amazing. He's a farmer right here.

1:16:34Joe Rogan:I freaked him out. He thought I was coming to rob him because he gets robbed often, apparently. Oh, boy. But he walked me through the site, and he, this one, okay, if you pause it, that right there on the bottom right is another one of those temples with the sunken plaza, except that one has monoliths. Oh, looks like Stonehenge. Exactly. And nobody's done a study on astro, I don't know that stuff. Alignment, right. But I can almost guarantee that there is some sort of astronomical alignment. So what happened was archaeologists did come back, did come here in the 90s, I think, and it didn't look like Corral.

1:17:18Joe Rogan:They weren't going to be able to restore it, so they just kept it as a, you know, to find dating on these things. And it's from the same culture. It's just a couple valleys over. Hmm. Do you have any footage of the monoliths? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It'll come up if you fast forward through it. It's going to be back closer to where, yeah.

1:17:46Joe Rogan:We walk up to it. There you go.

1:17:48Raul Bilecky:Oh.

1:17:52Raul Bilecky:Interesting. So some sort of a stone circle of modelists.

1:17:55Joe Rogan:I put it through AI.

1:17:56Raul Bilecky:They're fairly small modelists, though, right?

1:17:59Joe Rogan:I mean, some of them have been buried and removed. Oh.

1:18:05Raul Bilecky:So someone's got them in their fucking house somewhere.

1:18:07Joe Rogan:Some of them, yeah.

1:18:09Raul Bilecky:Ugh. How much of that is a problem with archaeology? I know that that was a giant issue with Egyptian artifacts. A lot of wealthy people in other countries would just get it imported to their den and have a big fancy party.

1:18:26Joe Rogan:It still happens. I will have to say that the—and, I mean, I've seen it with my own eyes, looting. I've never come across somebody in the field doing that, though. It would be freaky. Yeah. Because they'll kill you. Dude, you're out in the middle of nowhere.

1:18:43Raul Bilecky:And if they get caught, they're in deep shit. So they would want to get rid of you.

1:18:47Joe Rogan:And I mean, I know for a fact the way some of these get out of the country is some of these huaqueros have people on the inside who write them certificates and things like that. that say it's an authentic piece that has been owned by the family for this long so they can get it out of the country to whoever they're selling it to. That's how it works. What's a bigger problem, though, recently after talking to several archaeologists and witnessing it myself is agriculture. Agriculture. They actually went to a couple sites that I found this by mistake looking on Google Earth. So I would find a site and I would like roll the satellite date back because sometimes different seasons give you better imagery.

1:19:34I'm like, holy hell.

1:19:37Joe Rogan:What exists now is a quarter of what existed 10 years ago. And now all you see is like plantations planted. I mean, they have literally paved over the archaeological site to plant. Dude, and that is, it's become one of the bigger missions of the channel and eventuality because, dude, you don't know. This site could have aligned with that site, could have aligned with, you have no idea. And there's no documentation of it. There's no documentation because nobody's going out there. These places are far away, you know. But here's another peculiar thing. This last expedition. So I found one of these sites and I'm on camera and I'm ready to go in like guns a blazing, like, how dare you do this?

1:20:22Joe Rogan:How dare you erase this? And I get there and I mean, it's crumbled stones, crumbled walls. And it's just this woman on her farm. And so I start talking to her. This wasn't corporate. This woman has, in fact, did, in fact, write to the Ministry of Culture to say, hey, I'm expanding my farm. they didn't get back to her so she did it she you know paved over or created plots on half the archaeological site so it becomes a i don't know i don't know what the right solution is because i feel for this woman she's actually she's not this isn't corporate this is just surviving she's just surviving the corporate stuff like pisses me off and I'll go hard on them.

1:21:10Joe Rogan:And I do in some of my videos. But she and she tried to do the right thing by reaching out to the Ministry of Culture. But what she's supposed to do wait 10 years to get a response, you know, and so and then I don't know how you empower these people. Because from where I sit is at least if you could document it, then you'd have a record of it. You know, that's that's what I'm trying to do when I go out there, create 3D models and put it put pins on a map or something like that, you know? So it's, uh, it's a tricky situation to try to figure out. What's the most compelling site in Peru for you?

1:21:47Joe Rogan:I wanted to show you this. Uh, if you, if you look in, in my video footage, uh, Puru Len pyramids, P-U-R-U-L-E-N. This site, uh, I think it is much more deserving of future study. It's a site that has 16 platform pyramids. Wow. And what does this site date to? So when I do this, half my role here is like I'll go out and find these places, and then on the back end when I make these videos, I go hard on the research. Like I spend too much. Sorry, which video was that? Pyramids Purulin. Oh, I got it. That's just so you can have a sense of scale. thank god for drones huh 100 okay so that's a platform so that is the remains that's dude and that so right back if you look in back on the horizon that's the coast so this is right on the ocean which means this has been inundated for millennia by tsunamis and it looks like it it really does right it looks like it's completely washed over look at how the sand yep is formed and it's so i i kept that in there that's the wind the wind is so i like i messed up my first drone flying it here um but check this out i keep this in so you could just there's another one oh it gets better man that seems like a riverbed another that's

1:23:28Raul Bilecky:It completely seems like water's washed right over this whole area. I bet if you look at it from far above, it's even more evident, right? The area was. Yeah. Look at that. Wow.

1:23:42Joe Rogan:And they're all the same. They all have the same shape.

1:23:48Raul Bilecky:And what's the conventional explanation for this place?

1:23:52Joe Rogan:There was one study done on this, and it was a brief survey in 1970. and um this guy yeah yeah that's it however the archaeologists who did that survey there's another one there um the archaeologists who did this survey has been quoted in the past 30 years saying he always wanted to come back here and do more research he just never did it's not an easy place to get to um but what they dated it at is even in that report that 1970s survey he's saying 1800 B.E.C.E., but likely... Look at that. Wow.

1:24:33Raul Bilecky:Wow.

1:24:35Joe Rogan:Here's something unique. If you pause it real quick. Alright. So I looked on Google Earth, and those toward the top center, you see those two block-looking things? Alright, so I thought they were megalithic. They're not. All of these pyramids are carved out of the bedrock. Wow. are carved out of the bedrock. And the only place that there were looting pits are behind those two stones at the top. In that little alcove of the mountains, that was the only place. So I went there and there's bones there. So that's where people were buried. And I'm like, why are they burying people here? And I stand right in the middle and it's facing 89 degree, almost perfect east-west, that little gap.

1:25:19Joe Rogan:So like that's where they were burying their elite people.

1:25:23Raul Bilecky:So where the sun would rise in the summer solstice.

1:25:26Joe Rogan:Yeah.

1:25:28Raul Bilecky:Now, how old is this site supposed to be?

1:25:30Joe Rogan:So they said in that report, he says 1800. They found one piece of pottery that's documented. They found one. This is from the 1970s study. Yeah. And so they're saying 1800 BCE. That's right around when pottery started. But in that report, he says it's likely older as well. He thinks it's older. It needs more study. But that was it. That was the only thing that was put out there. I mean, this is 16 pyramids here. And if you look in my drone footage, you'll see it looks like there's another thing here, another thing there. So it's in the neighborhood of 4 ,000 years old but possibly older. Correct.

1:26:11Joe Rogan:And I think it is – I would stake everything on it being found to be much older. Pre-ceramic, pre-pottery. The pre-ceramic thing is nuts.

1:26:23Raul Bilecky:All right. So, like, here's the thing. What are they using for utensils? What are they using for plates? Like, what are they using to put their food on? And then if it is pre-ceramic, what kind of tools do they have? And how are they carving?

1:26:37Joe Rogan:How are they building these pyramids? This out of the bedrock.

1:26:40Raul Bilecky:I mean, imagine the amount of effort it would take for a human being banging a rock against another rock to try to do that and then to make it flat. Are these things level? Have they? They're, I mean, this is the only modern, most of my footage is the only modern media.

1:27:00Joe Rogan:What? In existence of some of these sites. That's crazy. Of that site?

1:27:06Raul Bilecky:Imagine if you didn't exist. Imagine if you weren't exposed to that as a 10-year-old.

1:27:12Joe Rogan:Yeah. I mean, that's.

1:27:15Raul Bilecky:This is just going to sit there for like another thousand years before somebody else figures it out? Yep. or it gets paved over. God. That's why I'm doing it, man. God, it's so weird. But how weird is that? How weird is it's just you? Raul, what kind of fucking weight on your shoulders is there that this one fascinating sight, you're the only guy that's got video of this, modern video? That's crazy. Thanks for having me on, Joe. You're getting kind of choked up about it.

1:27:49Joe Rogan:Yeah, man. I mean, it's a lot of work, you know, and it's just something in me that I've...

1:27:58Raul Bilecky:Well, it's obviously very compelling to everyone that really pays attention to it. Is this the... That's when you look on the satellite. Oh. And again, this is the thing. This is not like they put some rocks in place. They carved these things out of the bedrock and they're fucking huge. That's what's so crazy about it.

1:28:21Joe Rogan:I just, I had to, I mean, getting there was like, what are we looking at, man?

1:28:27Raul Bilecky:Like, that's the thing. Like, what are we looking at? And why in Peru? And what happened to this area where they had so much, so much sophisticated, complex construction that was absolutely abandoned and there's almost nothing left? So they over the course of history, what they've found is that especially people like to build on the coast and there's just up and down the coast of Peru.

1:28:55Joe Rogan:There's so much. But then a major massive El Nino would happen, and that just floods everything. And so people are like, well, we've got to go up into the mountains. So they start going further into the valleys. Because Peru is so unique. You have the coast, and then the Andes just start. You know, they just start going up until you get to, you know, the— before you start getting into the Amazon, you got to cross the whole Andes. And so for several hundred years, they would live further up the valley. And then they would come back and repopulate on the coast and build on top of the sites that used to be there.

1:29:37Joe Rogan:And then it would happen again and they would go back. And so there's this whole cycle of, and there's some places where you will find that direct, it's very hard to find megalithic stuff though like the stuff you're finding in Cusco for example on the coast you don't really find that you don't really find that type of architecture on the coast you didn't have that building material you didn't have stones like that and so it's my belief that some of these places existed further back than we think Like this place here on the coast, the erosion and the wind and the water that must have affected it.

1:30:18Joe Rogan:I can only – I have footage from – what we just saw was drone footage from this year. I didn't get much drone footage the year before. I could already see how much has been covered in one year. In one year from having gone there again. And it's just – imagine over millions of years or thousands of years. It's crazy.

1:30:41Raul Bilecky:If you had to just take a wild guess with no one holding you to this at all, how old do you think we're talking about here?

1:30:47Joe Rogan:I think there's – I go back pre-cataclysm, the young and dryest. There's evidence on like Waka Prieta that there was this mound that was carved out of the bedrock that Tom DeLahay and his team excavated. And that academically accepted dates back to 12 ,500 BCE. And so there were people living on the coast at that time. So this mound, what does that look like? There's a – it looks just like a – this is an interesting site. That's it. What am I looking at here? That mound. So that's not a natural mound? No, it started off as natural. And so what they found was they would use their refuse and so they would put trash on top of the mound and then cap it with like adobe mud so it would become strong.

1:31:45Joe Rogan:It would become a platform. And then they would build on top of it. So it's a trash mound? Part of it. How weird. That wasn't an uncommon thing.

1:31:56Raul Bilecky:And that's more than 15 ,000 years old. And what is that? They have writing from there?

1:32:02Joe Rogan:No. What's that, cloth? It's hard to see with that image. Like fishing nets. Oh, I see. It's one of the oldest pieces of cotton. So you ask how they were carrying things and all that with the cotton. But the cotton was coming from further inland. It wasn't coming from them. So even back then they were. So here's the kick. And this is part of like the paper I'm thinking I'm writing. there's evidence at that place, Huaca Prieta, of a sunken circular plaza. And that predates all the ones we saw by even 2 ,000 more years. I think this is where that tradition started. Wow. I think that's where it started far earlier than anybody accepts or knows.

1:32:51Raul Bilecky:Now here's the weird one. How did those people get there?

1:32:55Joe Rogan:Dude, you know I've thought about this. I mean look, if you Right.

1:32:59Raul Bilecky:If you're building these structures 6 ,000 years ago, 11 ,000 years ago, 15 ,000 years ago, when did you get there?

1:33:06Joe Rogan:When did you get there? And there's, yeah, there's the plaza. So, I mean, I don't think it takes much. I think if you're living on the coast or, I don't know, by any sort of water and you see a piece of wood floating on it, you're like, oh, all right. Well, then a thousand years go by and you have at that point put some pieces of wood together to make a flotation device. You're able to navigate. Like I just I don't see it not happening. Eventually. Right.

1:33:36Raul Bilecky:Especially with crazy people. I mean. Someone's got the courage to just sail out there and hope you have enough water on you. Or you're fishing and.

1:33:46Joe Rogan:You get stuck. You get stuck and there's a storm and it's like. Right. And you could never make it back. Right. You know. But I think that's happened in multiple places. I don't think that civilization is born and created without, A, that sense of exploration, but also that natural ingenuity. I mean storms happen and you see a log floating in the ocean. Well, I can use that to go catch more fish.

1:34:12Raul Bilecky:Yeah.

1:34:13Joe Rogan:All of a sudden you're seafaring.

1:34:15Raul Bilecky:Boy. it just when you see stuff like this that's that old that's 15 000 years old you go okay well this is all that's left from 15 000 years ago what's left from 30 000 years ago because it's like double that right right now you look at 15 there's almost nothing it's like god it's so little and but you get it but if you went another 15 before that are we talking what is that and and that's

1:34:41Joe Rogan:That's why I'm like with the stuff Biondi is doing with the SAR tech, I'm just hoping that that can be affordable and applied in multiple areas to find things that are buried underground. One thing that I've always been curious about why there hasn't been more research until I looked into it, all these places were on the coast of Peru. Well, sea levels were lower at one point. And so what's right off the coast of Peru? And there haven't been many, if any, studies on that. I'm like, why? Apparently, the Humboldt Current makes it very difficult to – this is what I read because I was like, why hasn't anybody studied this?

1:35:27Joe Rogan:Apparently, the Humboldt Current makes it very difficult to do research out there where it becomes very expensive for the equipment you need and things like that. But I guarantee that you'll find some stuff off the coast.

1:35:40Raul Bilecky:Yeah, it just makes sense. Yeah. Especially if you find that. I mean, especially we know that sea levels were far lower. Especially if that really is 15 ,000 years ago. We definitely know that sea levels were lower then.

1:35:52Joe Rogan:Yeah, it wasn't like this. It's crazy too, man, because like Tom Dilley got, I mean, he got so much shit from the academic community. community for his research down in Monteverdi and this site. Which is interesting how consistent it is. It's still going on today in the same way. And they're always wrong. Right? It's like you would think you might want to have an open – just leave some room and –

1:36:19Raul Bilecky:The young archaeologists are. I think there's a lot of young archaeologists that have grown up with the internet and they're really paying attention to this stuff and they're realizing – and also when you're young and you grow up with the internet, you realize gatekeepers of information are a real problem. And they always have been. And they're wrong about so many things. They're wrong about virtually everything. The official narrative of almost everything has holes in it.

1:36:44Joe Rogan:Something you said earlier too. This age of study and exploration and radiocarbon, it's not that old. We've only been doing this type of research for 100 years with some of the new advancements. You don't think something else is going to come along that might knock that out? Right. You don't want to leave room for that?

1:37:06Raul Bilecky:Right.

1:37:07Joe Rogan:It's kind of dickish.

1:37:09Raul Bilecky:It's very dickish. But no need to focus on the dicks. But that's why things like Filippo Biondi's work is so devastating to the narrative. Because this new technology, and if it shows that it's accurate, and it is accurate on things that we know exist. That's where it gets really crazy. especially when they looked 1.2 kilometers through a mountain to find the particle collider underneath and got the exact dimensions and a map of this particle collider. It's wild. Right? So they know that it's accurate. And then – so what are those pillars? What are these 20-meter in diameter? What are these things?

1:37:49And why would you not want to divest all the money you can possibly do to figure that out?

1:37:54Raul Bilecky:I think it will happen. And I think one of the reasons why it's going to happen is because of the internet, is because just the pressure and the amount of interest. And also think about Egypt, right? Egypt, a large portion of their economy is wrapped around the tourism. Yeah. Because the tourism in Egypt is phenomenal because it's one of the most incredible sites in the world. Wouldn't you want it to be even more incredible? Like what's more incredible than some unknown mystery of spectacular proportion? Something that goes a kilometer deep under the pyramids and they don't know what it is? Like this is nuts.

1:38:36Raul Bilecky:Also, those shafts that go down that are filled with debris now that they can clear out and it leads to what at least this data shows, tunnels and caverns and all this shit that's underneath there. Like what is that?

1:38:49Joe Rogan:I mean, and Ben has done phenomenal work putting all that together. Oh, he's incredible. I love that guy. The history and the story and the accounts of being in these labyrinths. And he's another guy that got into this because of the internet, you know?

1:39:04Raul Bilecky:I mean, he had a real career in tech. He was like, okay, I'm going to throw this out to be a YouTuber.

1:39:12Joe Rogan:I forget who I was speaking to. But, I mean, my goal is to document as much as possible before it's not there to document. And, I mean, it's crazy to be on here. My channel is, I still feel like it's in its infancy. Well, I only found out about it a while.

1:39:32Raul Bilecky:I mean, I want to say four months ago, five months ago, something like that. You know, I started seeing some of your stuff online, I think on X. And I started looking at it on YouTube and I was like, yo. This guy's going deep. How did you fund all this stuff? I mean, how do you have the money to go and do these things?

1:39:51Joe Rogan:I went broke the first expedition. This was a total field of dreams. If you build it, I'll see what happens.

1:40:03And fortunately, I mean, people saw the work I had been doing up until that point.

1:40:09Joe Rogan:There were some GoFundMe donations, which was amazing. The fact that, I mean, just thank anybody out there. Just thank you. Like the people who believe in what I'm doing, like that's what fills me up the most too. Like the encouragement and the support from people I don't know, you know.

1:40:28Raul Bilecky:Well, the content you provide though is so fascinating. And it's so interesting to people like myself and other people that are really interested in it. It's just a matter of getting you exposure. So the content is so amazing. It's just a matter of people have to find out about it. And then, I mean, YouTube is a great – the algorithm on YouTube is so good because it will recommend – I'll watch one of your videos and it will recommend something else interesting. And then it just keeps going on and on and on. Well, and so I came back from that first expedition.

1:41:00Joe Rogan:I was there. The first expedition was 23 days. I had two terabytes of footage. And it's funny. That footage lasted me a year and a half until this expedition now. And I was out on this last expedition for 42 days all over the country. And I mean, the video you were talking about when we first started talking, that is too the only – there's no drone footage of that site ever. There is one Facebook post with pictures and that's it. And I was like, I have to document this. And so much from the last expedition is like that. It's the only media that you'll see of it.

1:41:41Raul Bilecky:The fact that these pyramids carved into the bedrock, that you're the only one that has media, that is just absolutely insane. What are we looking at here? I'm just digging around the area. Oh, yeah. This is a mummy, lady cow they found in 2006. They call her, she might have been the first female ruler of the area, the Cleopatra of South America. these are pictures of her tattoos oh what

1:42:10Joe Rogan:so actually what's interesting is it is being there's a lot of evidence to say that some of these early early cultures were matriarchal because they're finding a lot of the tombs of these queens right there on the coast the sorcerer

1:42:30Raul Bilecky:this one pyramid in this area called El Brujo where Juaca Prieta is they found this dope totem whoa

1:42:40Joe Rogan:and so what's interesting I believe this was the

1:42:47Joe Rogan:El Brujo there are these paintings are on the wall I have a video on YouTube

1:42:54Raul Bilecky:that's cool too because you see paint so you realize that these things were very colorful naked prisoners and that this is a recreation of what it would have looked like then those are prisoners? Yeah. So the actual thing I thought was queer too. Why are they painting their prisoners? That's weird. I mean, everything was painted though.

1:43:12Joe Rogan:This was weird.

1:43:13Raul Bilecky:I mean, why are they making depictions of their prisoners? You know what I mean? Not that they painted it different colors, which is kind of cool, but it's interesting. Like how old is this supposed to be? Anywhere from 3 ,000. This was a very interesting part. 3 ,000 BC is what they say it goes back to, but they say it wasn't developed until modern day, like 200 to 600 AD, which is 3 ,600 years of nothing.

1:43:37Joe Rogan:So I believe it was the Moche culture.

1:43:40Raul Bilecky:1990 this one was found, and a Peruvian banker is the guy. It says he's philanthropically minded, I can't say it. Right, and the Huacheros are the ones who told him about it. And so that's a lot of these places have been found because of Huacheros being reported.

1:44:02Joe Rogan:all of a sudden there's an influx in a little village of silver or something like that and then somebody tells the authorities they figure out where they're going to dig i mean there's a there's a good book on it it's the lord of sipan um where archaeologists literally had to like stand guard the townspeople weren't happy that when the archaeologists got involved and the townspeople were coming to get the gold and coming to get the silver and so there's a whole book about it. I don't know why nobody's made a movie on it. That makes sense though, right?

1:44:34Raul Bilecky:Because it's life changing. If they can find hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of gold and silver in the ground, fuck these archaeologists.

1:44:44Joe Rogan:Well, and some of the earliest, a lot of the stuff you'll see in the museums, like the Larco Herrera Museum and a lot of the stuff, a lot of the pottery is preserved because you had these big plantation owners, these big technocrats, and their workers in the field would constantly be finding this artwork and these huacas. And so they were like, you know what? I'll give you$2 every time you bring me one. And now we have the Larco Herrera Museum full of this stuff. So anyway, and there's, I was talking to Dr. Ed Barnhart about this. There's also so much in Peru that the people finding these things, they aren't, maybe nowadays they're making a lot on stuff, but for the past couple decades, there was just so much.

1:45:37Joe Rogan:You're getting$3 for, if you're a Peruvian worker in the field moving this thing up the ladder, you're getting$3 for a little piece of pottery.

1:45:51Joe Rogan:How long have you been doing this for? I mean, what I've been with the channel, two years. That's it. Two years, yeah. And what were you doing before that? A video editor.

1:46:01Raul Bilecky:And so you just said, you know what? I'm going to just take a leap of faith.

1:46:05Joe Rogan:My contract, I had a contract position and it ended. I was posting these things I was finding on Google Earth and I was saying, like, I think this is something. This is why. I came up with this whole methodology. And people were like, you're full of shit. And I was like, you know what? Let's see. And I went and 100 % accuracy. Every single place I saw on Google Earth that did not have a label was an archaeological site. Every single one I went to. And that first expedition, I went to 90 in 23 days. That was the first expedition. I was there for 42 days this time. Wow. So, like, I've got five terabytes worth of video footage of things nobody's seen.

1:46:53Joe Rogan:That's crazy. Yeah. But just, I mean, imagine again.

1:46:57Raul Bilecky:What if you didn't do this? That's what's nuts. That's what's nuts. Like, we would be completely ignorant about this stuff. Yeah. It just makes you wonder, like, what was, like, those stone pyramids carved at the bedrock, the only UF footage of it. What was that culture? What were they doing?

1:47:17Joe Rogan:And all I have to go off of is what this, what made me happy is, like, and I have it on the video. if I'm talking to the camera, I'm like, I think this, I think that, I think this card. And that survey verified every little thing that I, which was like pretty cool. Cause I'm, I'm not, you know, academically trained to, you know, analyze these things, but I have the, I have the experience. And so it was kind of neat that every bullet point was verified by that survey. The feeling I got going to that place in that place in particular, I don't think they're going to find pottery there. I don't think they're going to – I think it was pre-ceramic, but I also think there weren't houses.

1:47:58Joe Rogan:There weren't – there might be if you go digging or do some LIDAR. I think it was a place of pilgrimage. That's just my person. I have nothing to back that up. That's what I felt though kind of – Pilgrimage. Kind of – like when I was walking there, I don't know, man. Peru is weird. Like the energy in Peru is different. In what way?

1:48:30Joe Rogan:I want to say spiritual because I don't have a different word for it. It's just you're just in tune with something. I mean, maybe it's just the nature. But, I mean, I feel different down there, and especially going in these far out places. And when you get to some of these sites, like you feel a little different. And so just kind of the intuitive impression I got was I wonder if people were coming here as some sort of pilgrimage because there aren't houses there. There's no evidence of people living there.

1:49:03Raul Bilecky:But is that because of time?

1:49:05Joe Rogan:It's very possible. That's the problem when you're seeing something that's – the amount of work that would take to carve something out of bedrock, like there was – and how many of those pyramids did you find? There were like 16 of them.

1:49:19Raul Bilecky:16. Yeah. Okay. They're huge. Huge. They're carved out of the ground, out of rock, with what?

1:49:28Joe Rogan:Here's the interesting thing. In that survey, I didn't know this, and I tried to pinpoint the location. That main pyramid I was on, there's a black and white photo from 1970 where they found a carved out room in that pyramid. And it looks like a room. It's been human carved out. So there's chambers in some of these things. Why aren't we studying it? Right. Why haven't we gone back in? Also, how? Like, what are you using to cut?

1:50:00Raul Bilecky:Right. Like, what kind of tools do you have? 6 ,000 years? Like, what tools were available?

1:50:08Joe Rogan:And it's so close to the ocean, you might not ever know because a tsunami comes in. It's taking it right back out. Right, right. And if it's metal, it's gone anyway. It's gone. Same with, I think, also, like, I think that little alcove where all the burials were, I think that got preserved because it was behind this mountain. I think if there was any civilization there prior that might have been living there, all the bones that were there, they're gone. They got taken back out. Of course.

1:50:40Raul Bilecky:And probably all the structures, any houses, if they had wooden houses.

1:50:44Joe Rogan:On top of the land, yeah.

1:50:46Raul Bilecky:Yeah, gone. Nothing left.

1:50:47Joe Rogan:And so all you're left is with this strong – who knows if those things were bigger too, you know? Right, right.

1:50:53Raul Bilecky:Who knows what was on top of those things, right? Exactly.

1:50:57Joe Rogan:That's nuts, man. The thing that gave it away on that site in particular is when you look aerially, every single one of those pyramid structures is facing northeast. Every single one. And that's for the sunrise on the solstice. Right. And I was like, this is man-made. This is man-made. And there's still people on the comments who are like, that's just a mountain. And I'm like, dude, what more do you want?

1:51:21Raul Bilecky:They think that those things were just – they don't think those things are man-made? Yeah. They're the same shape. Yeah, I know. The same shape, the same size. They're all pointing in the same direction. Shut the fuck up.

1:51:33Joe Rogan:I've learned not to fight. You're going to believe what you want anyway. You know what I mean?

1:51:39Raul Bilecky:It's the history. I mean, Graham Hancock has the greatest phrase that we are a species with amnesia. And I think it's true. And I think it all points back to not just the Younger Dryas impact, but probably several other impacts. You know, my friend John Reeves, he lives in Alaska and he runs the Boneyard. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. John just sent me some photos of a new site that they have that's under all these other sites, like deep under all these other sites where they're finding not just bone, but charred bone, like an entire area of like burnt tusks, burnt bones covered. And he thinks there was another impact.

1:52:25Raul Bilecky:An impact. And, you know, but just I mean, he's just making a rough estimation because some of the sites that he found, it's somewhere around 10 ,000 years ago due to like, you know, doing the examination of the cores. And he thinks it's 20 ,000 years ago. So he thinks this is probably a normal thing that has happened all throughout the history of the Earth is the Earth gets pelted, you know, every 10 ,000, every 20 ,000, whatever. I mean, you just get hit. And that speaks to the myths and the legends and the dryas and the yugas.

1:53:01Joe Rogan:I mean, every civilization has its version of, you know, this is the fifth epoch or the fourth epoch. You know, this is the first one was fire. The last one was, you know, water. There's always several cataclysms.

1:53:15Raul Bilecky:The yuga stuff is nuts, too, because it just seems like it's so accurate. And we are in Kali Yuga right now, which is the age of deception. and like what's more confusing that's what it's called right isn't it called the age of deception find out what so what's more like if you thought that it was all falling apart before it gets rebuilt let's like that's now like this place is fucking crazy like it's wild every day the news is nuts i i've uh gone on a social media hiatus over the last few days and i feel so good and i i decided two days ago i'm not going back i'm like i'm not going back i'll go back to post things I'm never reading it anymore I'll find my news you know people send me enough stuff as it is my friends send me things I don't have to click on them but I know what's going on like what craziness is happening you just feel better when you don't do it and

1:54:07Joe Rogan:I've been sucked into the the Nazca mummies thing sucked me into the back and forth on X and it's toxic it's so toxic man so toxic and it's like at the end of the day people are going And look, you can have all the evidence saying this one thing and everybody agrees. You're going to have this group that is like, well, no, for this reason. And it's the same thing on the other side too. And so it's just this – social media is this – what I'm saying is it's just this weird loop of confirmation bias.

1:54:43Raul Bilecky:And bitchiness and anger and arguments and infighting and attacks. And I just think that it's altering the collective psychological foundation of our society. I agree with you. And that's what's weird. And that's what makes sense when you see like crazy protests and crazy people online. It's like everyone's getting – there's something that's happening to them. Well, what's this one thing that exists with everybody? It's social media use.

1:55:14Joe Rogan:Yep. And... And I think, I don't know, it's hard. I tried to stay away and then I found myself like last week after I made like these videos just for the social media sphere as an example. Like I was getting pulled into it. I felt myself as somebody who has not engaged that much. I was like something has shifted, you know, and like I was ready to get defensive and take things personally. And I'm like, this is an attack back and attack back. And I was like, this is just continuing the cycle. And I don't want that. I don't want that in my life. I don't need any of that. So I just stopped, you know, and but the level of defensiveness, the level of attacks, the level of and it's not even at some points, it's not even just taking things personally.

1:56:05Joe Rogan:The attacks are personal sometimes.

1:56:07Raul Bilecky:It's like, what are you supposed to do other than not engage? Yeah, you can't engage. I say post and ghost. That's my strategy. I like it. That's a nice strategy. And then even then, I'm telling people to stay off of it, so they're not even going to read my stuff. They're listening to me, but that's okay. It's okay. It's like you find out enough. You find out about the important things and find out about shows that you enjoy, and then you subscribe. And then when new episodes come out, you're like, ooh. Yeah, yeah. And so that's what I've been doing, and it's a much healthier way. The one thing that doesn't – and Jelly Roll was telling me this.

1:56:41Raul Bilecky:He got off all – he had no phone for like 18 months. No phone at all. Wow. It was crazy. Like I'd contact him through his guy that was running his social media. Sounds like a healthy choice. Tell Jelly I love him. Tell him what's up. And then recently he got a phone like over the last few months and only uses YouTube. He's like, my YouTube, he goes, I learn things. I get interested in things. And that's how I feel too. Like I really enjoy YouTube. There's so much interesting content on YouTube. About everything. I mean, it's just like we're living in. I mean, this is an incredible age where.

1:57:21Joe Rogan:I mean, I feel fortunate for what I'm doing, that there's an audience for it. And there's a platform that can allow that to have have some reach because some stuff deserves to reach.

1:57:32Raul Bilecky:What you're doing is very important. It's very important. Just the fact that you are the first guy to get media of that those structures. That's crazy, man. I mean, it's really kind of crazy. You're a video editor. Two years ago, you decided to do this. You're the first guy who's documenting these things. And then we're showing millions of people right now. Kind of nuts. Like how few people know that there was some kind of a complex society that understood the equinoxes, pointing their structure toward it. And not just building them with mud and bricks, but carving it out of the bedrock in a similar shape over and over and over again.

1:58:13Raul Bilecky:And that's just what you found. Like imagine how much hasn't been found.

1:58:18Joe Rogan:Dude, you just look at the aerial stuff and – I mean, Joe, I can't – that's just the tip of the iceberg, man. Right. Like of the content that – I mean I'm going to places in the middle of the desert and seeing an adobe wall peek out at this one little section. And then I put the drone in the air and you can see the outline of this whole structure. Just a little bump in the sand.

1:58:43Raul Bilecky:And no one even knows it's there.

1:58:45Joe Rogan:No one even knows it's there. What happened to all those people? That's what's nuts. Dude, that's the, like, when I say cradle of civilization, I mean, this was, I don't know, whatever is bigger than a cradle. Well, that's what makes sense, right?

1:59:00Raul Bilecky:Because if you think about the Ice Age and if all this stuff is pre-Ice Age or during the Ice Age, that area is not covered in ice. And it's one of the few areas around the equator that's not fucked up. And it's one of the few areas where people can thrive. So it really makes sense that that would be the area where civilization would not just thrive but reach very high levels of sophistication where they're able to carve into the bedrock these massive pyramid structures.

1:59:25Joe Rogan:There is interesting evidence that – I forgot I was watching. It was on like Discovery or Nagio or something. But there's evidence in like the Okokahe Desert. I mean they're finding another dark trafficking – illegal trafficking web is like the sale of fossils because they're finding whales in the Okokahe Desert.

1:59:48Raul Bilecky:I was waiting to find a good point for this. They found that they were using whale vertebrae as stools. So they found this giant. Dude, I want those for my bar. Dude, that's awesome. I did not know that. In 2023, they found what could be dubbed the most heaviest or the heaviest animal ever.

2:00:07Joe Rogan:Whoa. I've been in touch with that guy's nephew.

2:00:09Raul Bilecky:Colossal blue whale found outside of Peru. Each vertebrae weighs 220 pounds. Yeah, the whole thing, the ones they found, 200 tons. and so like as you were just saying if they're not buried under tons of ice then these people could in theory have found you know lots of these giant holy shit in the desert yeah something else i'm stumbling across i didn't get into it blue whale poop is apparently got some something interesting to it what's the deal with blue whale poop how do you go on these deep dogs in the middle of a podcast jamie you're a fucking wizard dude you start seeing stuff like the whoa having a poop.

2:00:49Raul Bilecky:Look at that.

2:00:50Joe Rogan:Neon green?

2:00:53Raul Bilecky:I'm just imagining these giant 200 ton poops. And then what you could, I don't know, it's red? Ew, god. What are these people doing with poop? They also think that they could have been eating in a different way. They're just sweeping up shrimp and shit from the bottom of the ocean. Right. I'm just like picturing what this looked like, you know, in the year zero, where there's a bunch of giant whale bones all over the coast. And who knows what other octopus or whatever the

2:01:19Joe Rogan:What happens to that poop when it fossilizes? But no, they're finding that. I mean, there is a dark web of trafficking for looking for stuff in the Okukahe Desert where all these prehistoric animal bones are. They found dinosaurs and stuff there too.

2:01:35Raul Bilecky:And again, is it just wealthy people that want it for their homes? Is that what it is?

2:01:41Joe Rogan:The stuff I've seen, it's, I mean, really that guy and a few other people just kind of going out there illegally looking for stuff.

2:01:49Raul Bilecky:But it has to be valuable for them to be willing to do this, right?

2:01:52Joe Rogan:So who's buying it? Wealthy oligarchs. Where are these fucking people?

2:01:57Raul Bilecky:I never met one of them that has some stuff like that. I want to go over someone's house. Like, hey, you want to see some shit?

2:02:02Joe Rogan:You got a whole museum right there.

2:02:05Raul Bilecky:That's probably how you wind up on a list. but I mean it's

2:02:11Joe Rogan:there's still there's still so much out there and I mean if I just like some of the structures I was talking about like you literally see a whole adobe wall you see a whole temple complex you see the remnants of a circular plaza I mean there's another if you go to the undocumented temple on the spreadsheet this is undocumented no ministry of culture sign It's not on the Ministry of Culture's database of archaeological sites.

2:02:41Raul Bilecky:How did you find it?

2:02:43Joe Rogan:Using Google Earth. Wow. And so here's the thing. All right. So circling back, we had that Norte Chico culture with the sunken plazas way down here. We have this.

2:02:53Raul Bilecky:I was a plaza. Go ahead.

2:02:54Joe Rogan:So that, well, that's what I saw on Google Earth. No, go ahead. Continue what you were just saying. So you have the Corral Supe culture down here. And then you have the – they found that sunken plaza underneath archaeological sites in Chasma way up here. So you have these two different – and they're saying they were separate cultures. I think they were the same. How far apart are they? 200 kilometers or miles, I forget. So what I was like – I was like, well, is there a connection between these two? So I looked in the valleys in between and I found this with a sunken – a temple with a sunken circular plaza.

2:03:32Joe Rogan:So you just have them. You just found it.

2:03:33Raul Bilecky:Found it on Google Earth.

2:03:35Joe Rogan:Yeah. And then I went and I needed help from one of the guys in the field. And a lot of the people in these pueblos, like, they'll know every now and then you'll get lucky and someone knows the history. Every now and then. More often than not, it's, yeah, there's some ruins right over there. And that's it. That's the extent. That's the extent of their knowledge. And so that was one of these occasions where the guy was like, if you just go this way and that way. Because I was looking for it. I had to pin on my map, but I was getting lost. So I go and I find this place, and lo and behold, it's a sunken circular plaza, temple structure.

2:04:11Joe Rogan:I go up on top. There's pottery there. You can see where the huaceros have dug things out. There's walls, and it's just unexcavated. Nobody surveyed it. There's no documentation of it. It's just there. Wow. Can I see that?

2:04:32Raul Bilecky:so that's what I saw this is we saw on Google Earth yeah okay and so you're just looking in between these two areas oh and it's also facing north-north

2:04:41Joe Rogan:east too that also told me that it was probably something okay and then you see this this yeah that's right next to it and then you went and then I went what do you rented a car how the fuck are you doing this yeah what happens you bring these cards back they're like where'd you go yeah i have some pictures of driving out in the desert

2:05:05Raul Bilecky:bed like okay so this guy's helping you is this the guy a local yeah he was just working in the field there okay so these are the fields and he tells you where this stuff is so all the locals

2:05:18Joe Rogan:know they know stuff is and then pretty soon i start walking up to it

2:05:25Raul Bilecky:and this is completely undocumented and it's you can see the plaza there

2:05:29Joe Rogan:um it's all rubble so something happened some some earthquake or so i'm walking up to the top of it

2:05:38Raul Bilecky:and then uh so right now it just looks like rubble it doesn't even look like it was

2:05:43Joe Rogan:a building right from the ground at least exactly and half so many places i'm like standing right in the middle of the site. I don't even know until I put the drone in the air. Oh. I think it's coming up here. You'll see a... Let's see.

2:06:04Joe Rogan:It should come up here shortly. There you go. Okay. So. Clearly. Underneath all of that is rooms. Right. So you see the bricks. A piece of pottery some of the walk arrows took out. Wow. But that was evidence to me that—so underneath this whole thing are walls and chambers and rooms. And you just found this on Google Earth. And it's the same style as that Corral Supe culture, the early one from, you know, 3 ,000 to 4 ,000 years ago.

2:06:43Raul Bilecky:It's just so hard to believe that this is unexplored. And not just that, undocumented. And that you just find it on Google. Thank God for, shout out to Google Earth. You know? Google Earth deserves some props.

2:06:57Joe Rogan:I mean, seriously, yeah. Crazy. I mean, who would have ever thought? People asked if I used, like, advanced satellite stuff, and I've only used Google Earth so far.

2:07:06Raul Bilecky:Look at this. Clearly, some sort of a civilization was there that just got obliterated.

2:07:14Joe Rogan:So this was weird. I don't know. Like, it was just a cactus in the middle of it all. It was very strange. I don't know. Cactuses are tough. I still don't know what to make of that.

2:07:25Raul Bilecky:They can grow anywhere. That's what's weird about it. But it is weird. There's only one.

2:07:28Joe Rogan:Yeah, in the middle of it.

2:07:30Raul Bilecky:Yeah.

2:07:31Joe Rogan:But so there's pottery there. I was wondering if it was the San... There was one more cactus, like, directly aligned with it.

2:07:39Raul Bilecky:Other San Pedro cactus down there? Yeah. So these people were probably doing something. Something with the old psychedelic cactus.

2:07:50Joe Rogan:I've got a place to show you.

2:07:52Raul Bilecky:Because San Pedro cactus is where you get mescaline, right? Yes. Yeah. It makes sense that if they have these temples and they have, if there's a pilgrimage, there's probably some sort of a psychedelic ritual involved. Look at this, man. What does it feel like to just find something that no one even knew existed like this? It's got to be a trip.

2:08:19I'm like, thank God I was right.

2:08:24Joe Rogan:Spent 14 hours getting to this place. Thank God there was something. But there have been times, too, where I'll get there and Google Earth hasn't updated itself. And there's a plantation planted over some of it. Do you ask the people what used to be here? If there's people around. I mean, sometimes. Like I said, it's – you can kind of tell when it's corporate. The infrastructure in the area is different. But that's the other thing. There's nobody monitoring this. And I was like, what's the solution? Do you pay somebody to call the Ministry of Culture when somebody is coming in with bulldozers leveling things?

2:09:07Joe Rogan:And what would they even do? Probably the people with the bulldozers just pay them off. either pay them off or dude at that corral site ruth shady the archae she was shot by land traffickers the archaeologist responsible for discovery land traffickers were trying to take over the site and she was shot she was killed she wasn't killed she was shot uh and i mean she's as recent as a few years ago is like we're still not getting protections from them they sent us one security guard to patrol the perimeter. These land traffickers, man, like, and it's for agriculture. It's for agriculture. It's not for looting.

2:09:45Joe Rogan:Looting is a happy byproduct for them. It's for the agriculture.

2:09:50Raul Bilecky:Squatters issued death threats to archaeologists to discover the oldest city in America's.

2:09:55Joe Rogan:The oldest city in the Americas, and you're getting one rent-a-cop?

2:09:59Raul Bilecky:Wow. They called the site's lawyers and said that if he continued to protect me, they would kill him along with me and bury us five meters below the ground. And she's 73. They killed our dog as a warning. Oh, God.

2:10:16Joe Rogan:They actually, when I think it was, there was, because when they excavate, they do it in seasons and stuff. And there was one season where, like, land traffickers had started building on part of the site and in the off season from digging. So they had to deal with all of that. I mean, it's crazy. It's like the Wild West, man. Wow.

2:10:35Raul Bilecky:Any other sites to show us that are particularly compelling?

2:10:39Joe Rogan:I mean, dude, there's... I know. We could go on forever. If you look at Chavin, C-H-A, it's just on the media hard drive. So we're talking about underground structures and hallucinogens and stuff like that. This place, Chavin.

2:10:59Joe Rogan:Now, this is a known archaeological site. And how old is this place? I think 2 ,000, right around zero. Look how far down it goes. How deep does it go? This is nuts. Right?

2:11:13Raul Bilecky:And this is just one part of it. Whoa. And this is 2 ,000 years old, at least.

2:11:20Joe Rogan:At least. Wow. So they won't let you film in the other section. It kind of looks like this. Why won't they let you film there? Because there's something called the Lanzon Monolith. And if you look that up, Jamie, L-A-N-Z-O-N Monolith.

2:11:42So that's it.

2:11:45Joe Rogan:So they won't let you film in there because too many people go in there and take pictures and the flash supposedly. So they just. Yeah. The flash. Dude, but when I went in there, the security guard was right behind me the whole time. He knew I was going to try to take a picture.

2:12:00Raul Bilecky:Yeah, but you can take a picture with no flash now, especially with, like, the new iPhones and Samsung phones. You can take some really high-resolution photos.

2:12:08Joe Rogan:The guard said not enough people know how to turn it off on their phone.

2:12:12Raul Bilecky:Oh, boy. So, but when you walk in— The flash is fucking it up? That seems crazy. That seems like voodoo. Doesn't it? Doesn't it?

2:12:22Joe Rogan:It could do it to paint and stuff. Come on. There's no paint on that fucking thing. The rock is crazy. And it's behind a piece of plexiglass. too that sounds like they're just control freaks like fuck off dude make a reason for sure just to tell people but so so okay so the whole thing about this place you saw how deep we went underground it's in a comparable place with these hallways and and and joe i like completely stone cold sober that's what it looks like as soon as i walked in underground something hits you so it's the air is different. Dude, I don't know how to describe it.

2:12:58Raul Bilecky:And how'd you feel?

2:13:03Joe Rogan:Lighter and a little messed up in the head, man. Really? Yeah.

2:13:06Raul Bilecky:Do you think it's a lack of oxygen?

2:13:09Joe Rogan:It's possible.

2:13:10Raul Bilecky:Because it seems like you're deep, deep, deep underground, probably limited oxygen because you get these caverns and just got a hole to the top.

2:13:18Joe Rogan:I mean, honestly, I wonder if it's built on some sort of, I don't know, like the sacred energy or Delphi with the gases or something like that. I don't know. Getting gassed in there? All I know is that when you go in— Show me that totem again, that monolith. What they found is they found evidence of rituals happening there, like plates with hallucinogenic plants or substances. So people were going down there to do these rituals and do this space. I mean, if you're going to go on a trip, that's the place to do it. Right. Like, that's, it's just, you're in an enclosed space. The acoustics are so weird.

2:14:02It's trippy, man.

2:14:04Joe Rogan:What is that image on that thing? Jaguar, it said. It's a jaguar? There's a whole bunch of imagery here. That's like the fanged. So for a while they thought this culture, the Chavin culture, was responsible for the onset of religion in Peru. They called it the mother culture for decades. And you see this fanged deity. Dr. Barnhart talks about it a lot, this jaguar-looking deity. They thought it came from there. But there's actually places that I went to where you see it on the coast for older. So it actually kind of flips that whole – it's not the mother culture. But their influence and their reach was extreme throughout the Andean world.

2:14:51Joe Rogan:So they were responsible for – that's when like religion took – and iconography got a major influx right after Chavin culture. They had it before but not like this. So that's what's on that statue. Wow. Yeah.

2:15:07Raul Bilecky:and it's just so ridiculous they won't let you take a picture because of the flash that's so good somebody should talk to them go hey man shut the fuck up that flash doesn't do anything devotees would be led into the maze of pitch black tunnels eventually coming face to face with the sculpture the worshipers disorientation in addition to the hallucinogenic effects of the san pedro cactus they were given before entering only heightened the visual and psychological impact of the sculpture.

2:15:38Joe Rogan:I mean, that's... God, people are weird. They must have had it lit up with fire or something fucking sweet. Yeah. Dude, it was... Just going in there stone-cold sober and feeling affected, I can only imagine what it was like being on San Pedro.

2:15:53Raul Bilecky:Is that the weirdest place that you've been to in Peru? um Soxayhuaman seems to me to be the most bizarre because just the size of the stones oh yeah I mean like how how I mean how what are you guys doing how'd you do this how'd you figure out to make them interlocking in a way that if there's a seismic impact they stay put how How did you get them there?

2:16:24Joe Rogan:How did they look like marshmallows? I mean. Yeah. Why are they? It looks like they're melted. I've gone on some deep dives. It's funny on that. Yeah, look at that.

2:16:32Raul Bilecky:Fuck, man. The big ones on the bottom? Like, how? It's the style of them, too, which is so different where, as you said, it looks like marshmallows. They're melted into place almost. Like, look at that one big one in the center. What the hell is that? How big is that?

2:16:52Joe Rogan:I forget but they go up to 200 tons. I think that's got to be bigger than 200 tons Don't you think probably I look how small those people are and those people in the foreground

2:17:02Raul Bilecky:Get those people right up next to that thing They'd be tiny. Well, maybe it is 200. I don't know but either way but like nuts that one up there

2:17:10Joe Rogan:You know how rounded these things are yeah, you can't get a piece of paper The only way they've been dislodged is because of earthquakes. I mean like it's

2:17:19Raul Bilecky:bro look at the size of that and look at the way they interlock

2:17:23Joe Rogan:you can tell when you get up close there's there is this reddish residue oh uh there's so much you can see the there's often reddish reddish residue like so they were painted at one point No, I think it was clay in the Spanish. The indigenous people will tell you that. And actually, Percy Fawcett wrote about it in his journals, too. Like this bird that would take a leaf, a red leaf, and peck it into the rock. And after a little bit of time, it would create a hole in the rock. It would kind of melt the stone. Actually, the guy from the video that unregistered megalithic site told me the same story.

2:18:09Raul Bilecky:OK, I know what you're talking about. There's a specific type of plant that has like an acid to it. An acid, and I've started to, I like Dr.

2:18:21Joe Rogan:Barnhart's theory, and there's also a paper on it, a peer-reviewed paper by Helmut Tribuch, where he talks about, look, if you mix pyrite from the offshoot of one of these Incan mines with this plant-ish material, you can create like an acid that will slightly deform the stone.

2:18:42Raul Bilecky:So maybe you would set the stones in place that way? Secrets of softened stone, the lost techniques of the ink from Facebook. So you know it's true. No, no, no.

2:18:51Joe Rogan:But George Lira was – I did a whole – some of my early videos, man, are like research papers. Like I went on a deep dive with all this. And the Spanish chroniclers talk about seeing gold in between some of the stones. But this guy also, Helmet Tribute, who wrote the paper, says, what if it wasn't gold? What if it was pyrite fusing the stones, helping to fuse the stones together with this paste?

2:19:19Raul Bilecky:Look what it says there. It says, the technique to carve and shape the stones remains a mystery. According to legends, the gods would have gifted the Incas two magical plants, coke, so coca leaves, which allowed them to withstand pain and physical exhaustion, and another plant that allowed them to soften stones. softened stones. But you see that red residue. That also makes sense. They did so much work. They're all coked up. Fucking making these dope pyramids.

2:19:48Joe Rogan:When I was a kid this morning. This is the picture I clicked on,

2:19:51Raul Bilecky:but that didn't pop up. Oh, that can't be real.

2:19:53Joe Rogan:No, that's, I've seen that. That's an artistic creation. If you pull up,

2:20:05Joe Rogan:do you want to stay on Cusco or go to one other place? It's up to you, dog. Whatever you want to do. Let's go to tunnels, Cusco. Dude, this whole part of the Andes, yeah, there's tunnels everywhere, man. It's not just what they're doing.

2:20:26Raul Bilecky:So you're climbing down into this tunnel. Now, is this a naturally formed hole? Some of it. Some of it?

2:20:34Joe Rogan:Okay. On the way out, you'll see when I'm going, there's steps. Those were actual steps that were built. But these things, dude, you can't get to the end. You can't find people. There are stories where kids get lost in these things and never found. Oh, fuck.

2:20:51Raul Bilecky:So, again, these look like natural caves. Right. Some of them have been carved out. So it's a combination. It's a combination. So probably there were some natural caves. Yes. And then they started carving things out. The whole thing about it was... This gets weird. So this is the steps?

2:21:09Joe Rogan:Yeah, coming up on the right. I mean, it just keeps going on. Oh, I'm not going in there. There's the steps.

2:21:19Raul Bilecky:Jamie, can you imagine you and me outside the door going, uh-uh. You go first.

2:21:23Joe Rogan:I'll follow you. That's how my Quechua guide was, man. He was just filming me. Fuck you, bro. I'm not going in there. I was like, I'll go in.

2:21:31Raul Bilecky:There's probably demons in there. That's like that movie. What was that movie? The Descent? The Descent, dude. That movie's great. Dude, I love that movie. That movie's great.

2:21:39Joe Rogan:I watched it a while ago. I was like, 2005? That's wild.

2:21:42Raul Bilecky:That's an old movie, yeah. They did a Descent, too. It's not as good. Yeah. This is apparently the - It's okay. It's not the best. But Descent 1 was awesome.

2:21:50Joe Rogan:Yeah. One of the best horror flicks I've ever seen.

2:21:54Raul Bilecky:And there's another one, huh? Oh, fuck that hole. Did you go in there? Please tell me what you're doing there. Oh, geez, everyone in there. Of course I did, Joe. Of course I did. Wow. with your Pillars of the Past shirt on. Oh, my God, dude. I don't even think I would fit in that hole. I got a little scared because coming out wasn't easy. I was just reading about this guy who died in one of those holes. A guy was a cave crawler, and he got stuck trying to get out. He got in head first and then could not get out.

2:22:24Joe Rogan:And was just stuck. Died there. Dude. Like that? Like that?

2:22:28Raul Bilecky:Couldn't even scream because his chest was compressed. Oh, God.

2:22:32Joe Rogan:Yeah, I mean, there's some stuff I've done I'm not going to do it.

2:22:35Raul Bilecky:He was at an angle like this, you know, and just couldn't – there's no way to get back out. That's terrifying. Ooh. That's terrifying. You know how that never happens? You don't go in there. You don't go in there. You never dive in a cave. You never dive in a cave.

2:22:47Joe Rogan:I'll take that into consideration, man.

2:22:51Raul Bilecky:All right, before we wrap this up, anything else you want to show us?

2:22:54Joe Rogan:All right, one more site. Okay. Chisnery, the C-H-I-S. Which one? There's four videos Let's just do the drone footage and then inside tombs So this place I had no idea places like this It's just me and my guide Dude, the people I met on this, it's just by happenstance He's the president of the community there, the little compassino and took 12 hours out of his day to walk me through this place That's cool

2:23:29Raul Bilecky:that's another build it and they will come thing right it really is you just go out there and you'll find the right people or they kill your dog yeah okay

2:23:40Joe Rogan:so this oh the paint's still on it it's actually not paint it's mud it's different colored mud that's what he said so now we're going to go now in that next video we're going to walk up to them.

2:24:05Raul Bilecky:Whoa, skulls. The sky people? Do you know?

2:24:08Joe Rogan:No, the Chachapoyas were much further north. These are elongated skulls. You see that skull, right? Yeah. This is in the Cuzco region.

2:24:20Raul Bilecky:Wow. What the fuck, dude? Yeah, man. Why are all these dead people in that hole? Whoa!

2:24:27Joe Rogan:What's going on in there? These were where they would bury their deceased. They'd just chuck them in a hole? No, they weren't like that.

2:24:36Raul Bilecky:So this is all just looting. This is looting.

2:24:39Joe Rogan:This is all looting.

2:24:41Raul Bilecky:Fucking skulls are everywhere. This is crazy. It's wild. It's like a horror movie. This is like the beginning of a horror movie before it gets dark out. The guys, these archaeologists, it's probably you. You're out there. in the movie you'd bring a girl with you you have to leave this place before the sun goes down a hundred thousand percent bro you're gonna hear voices you're gonna hear dead languages yelling no camping

2:25:06Joe Rogan:in the valley you don't have to

2:25:09Raul Bilecky:be a gangster to fucking take a nap in there ghost hunters should definitely go there oh yeah I'll get Sam and Colby to go down there I bet they won't do it that's real ghosts

2:25:20Joe Rogan:this is all from looting wow Wow.

2:25:23Raul Bilecky:So they just dug these people up, stole whatever. Yeah, that's a spine. Yeah. Fuck, man. God, there's so many bones. That's nuts. It's crazy, man. That's nuts. Well, Raul, I'm happy. I'm so happy that you made that decision a couple years ago to just follow this passion. And the content that you put out is really incredible. And the fact that you've been able to find these sites that are heretofore undocumented, it's really amazing, man. It's amazing. I'm happy you're doing it, and I really enjoyed having you on. And for everybody who wants to watch, it's Pillars of the Past. It's on YouTube. Do you put videos up on X as well?

2:26:07Joe Rogan:I do. I've started putting videos up on X, and my website's going to be up and running soon. It's going to be a place. If you find places and want to put it on a map and if Jamie wants to comment on it, then he can comment on the pin you put. I'm trying to build something because people send me stuff all the time.

2:26:26Raul Bilecky:Right. Have some sort of a thriving community of people that are interested in the same thing. Absolutely. Well, there's an interest for this stuff now. I really credit Graham Hancock, I think, because he was the real pioneer of this when people just thought he was a loon. And I remember people would make fun of me for reading his book in the late 90s. They'd make fun of me. Like, what are you reading this bullshit from? Why don't you go to a real history class? That's not fun. No. This is fun. This is fun. It's fun to think that we don't know what happened, but that something happened.

2:26:56Joe Rogan:And Graham puts in the work. He does. I mean, just look at the citation section. He puts in the work.

2:27:03Raul Bilecky:Of course. Yeah, he's an amazing human, you know, which is why they have to lie to discredit him. but you know when when he put that material out and then i think the netflix show really started started opening up the gates to people exploring this stuff more and just being fascinated by and then seeking out content like yours and you know and there's we're really fortunate now there's quite a few really good shows that are on youtube that document this kind of stuff and it's these are real mysteries. There's real mysteries when it comes to human history. And to me, it's one of the most fascinating things.

2:27:43Joe Rogan:I agree with you.

2:27:44Raul Bilecky:I love it. Thank you so much for doing what you do. Get out there again and let's come back and do another one of these. I would be happy to.

2:27:54Joe Rogan:Just a few plugs. Yeah, yeah, please. I'll be speaking because of all this, which is just amazing. I still feel like everything's in its infancy, so I'm humbled by the opportunities that keep presenting themselves, but like the Quest for Ancient Civilizations conference in Sedona, and then it's actually going to be here. Of course it's in

2:28:13Raul Bilecky:Sedona.

2:28:13Joe Rogan:It's going to be here in Austin, too. Of course it's here, too. Two kooky places. ACL Live, I think, is there. Oh, nice. It's an amazing venue. That's going to be in October, and then I'm doing a tour with Mike Collins from Wandering Wolf in the Yucatan, and with Hugh Newman, we're doing a northern program. Let me ask you about that.

2:28:32Raul Bilecky:What do you think about that sage wall because he's the guy that goes over the sage wall you think it's a natural

2:28:37Joe Rogan:formation i think it's more likely more like the way i operate is i'm i tend to remain skeptical i i would like multiple pieces of evidence there's also similar things nearby that aren't

2:28:54Raul Bilecky:spectacular that are natural right i believe so yes in the yeah there's something about the geology of the area.

2:29:01Joe Rogan:And I found places like that in Peru as well. I mean, I'm waiting for, they've done LIDAR studies of that stuff. For me, just to have one wall, I need, I personally need more than just that. And I mean, I found some of the stuff like that in Peru and I'm very hesitant to say this is megalithic architecture. It needs more study.

2:29:25Raul Bilecky:For people that are interested in, And just to let you know, there's a lot of AI images online. And when you go to look for the sage wall, sometimes you're confronted with ones like, oh, my God, that for sure is man-made. But then it's not a real image. Someone's created an image or doctored the image to make it look a little bit more man-made.

2:29:43Joe Rogan:I will say Mike Collins has done a ton of work on it.

2:29:46Raul Bilecky:So if you want to see the original footage, it's on his channel. Very, very interesting footage. I mean, I go back and forth. Yeah. I mean, that's. Depending on how old it is. So that's the thing. Like, was you talking about something that's 30 ,000 years old? Maybe that's all that's left.

2:30:00Joe Rogan:I forget. He was saying they found that it goes a lot deeper than something like that. So it's like for me. Which makes it more interesting. Which makes it more interesting. And I'm like, I just, like, keep trying. Like, let's see. Keep figuring it out.

2:30:13Raul Bilecky:There's one in Texas, too, that I haven't found a good answer for. Yeah. I've heard of that. 200 to 400 ,000-year-old wall? I think a guy in 1925 claimed that and probably just got people to pay attention and then come visit, but I don't have a good answer that I've come across on what it is or how old it is. Go to that one below, to the right of your cursor. Right here? To the right of it. Right there. Yeah. Look at that.

2:30:39Joe Rogan:Huh. I will say, though.

2:30:40Raul Bilecky:That could be natural formation. I mean, the earth does a lot of weird things. That's not convincing to me. It's just interesting. No, can I put it back up again now? But I'm aware of it. I'm just like, I'm looking at that extraterrestrial. Shut the fuck up. Extraterrestrials do a way better job. They might have built the pyramids. They didn't build this. Fuck out of here. It was shitty fucking scab labor. Cobblestones, yeah. Yeah, got non-union guys came in. I'll do the job for cheap. They got their laser beams. Yeah. Oh, wait a minute. That looks real. I think that's the guy I found when they found it.

2:31:18Raul Bilecky:Oh, that looks like a wall. But there's also four versions of this picture and one's in color. it's so hard nowadays to like

2:31:25Joe Rogan:you gotta put in some work to find the truth

2:31:27Raul Bilecky:yeah that was that is weird but that doesn't look real that looks like it's just the strata but it's not consistent all the way what the fuck do I know who knows

2:31:42Joe Rogan:that's here in Texas right

2:31:44Raul Bilecky:maybe we'll go one day Pillars of the Past YouTube awesome thank you really appreciate you It was a lot of fun today. I really enjoyed it. Appreciate it. Bye, everybody. All right. Bye, everybody.