#2489 - Ryan Bingham

29:40I'll meet you guys back there. I was like, oh, you're an animal. That's funny. Axis deer in Hawaii is very interesting because they were given to King Kamehameha in like, I don't remember what year it was. Find out what year they got introduced there, but they're everywhere now. I've gone to Lanai a bunch of times. That's where we went. Bow hunting. Yeah, it was wild. There were thousands of them everywhere. And you're trying to sneak up on a group of 10, and then you don't even realize there's like 100 right here laying down that you didn't even see. And then they get up and spook the rest and stand.

30:14Well, you know, you've been there. Okay, it was in the 1800s. A gift to Kim Kamehameha from India. And there's 30 ,000 of them in Lanai and only 3 ,000 people. I mean, it's crazy. It's the only place where you can go hunting, bow hunting, and you stay at the Four Seasons. Right? I think Remy said he got kicked out of there, though, because he was hunting so much. And, you know, all that red clay there, you know, on your boots and stuff. He said, so the whole hotel was just like red clay everywhere. The fridge is just full of meat, you know, like blood dripping out. They kicked him out of there?

30:52Oh, I don't know if they kicked him out. Oh, that's hilarious. He's like, well, maybe we ought to go find somewhere else to stay, you know. Well, just take off your boots before you come inside. That's all it is. But, yeah, it's that weird red clay. And it all used to be part of the Dole pineapple plantation. So when you're around there, one of the things you notice is like there's layers of dirt, but then there's like almost looks like plastic bag underneath it. Like a hefty bag. From all the farming. Yeah. So I guess they had a layer of like that kind of whatever the fuck a hefty bag is made out of, whatever that plastic is.

31:25And then the dirt was on top of that somehow. And then the pineapples would grow up through it. I just keep moisture and stuff like that in the ground. Yeah, I would imagine. But it's disconcerting because it doesn't feel like nature. It feels weird. It does. There's plastic everywhere on the ground. Yeah. And then you get in the mountains and, like, those old World War II turrets and stuff that are up there. Oh, yeah. Do you come across any of that? I mean, it's just like, first of all, like, hunting Axis deer in Lanai and, like, you get up on the top and you're surrounded by the ocean. I mean, what a trip, you know.

31:55I know. Just seeing that and then coming across all those old relics and just all the history there. It's just something to take into. And we are laughing because obviously they're trying to control the population of the axis deer there. And I think somebody mentioned, like, man, just get a couple of Bengal tigers out here. Exactly. That'll thin out the population. It'll thin out the population of people too, unfortunately. Yeah. The thing about them is that they did evolve around tigers. That's why they're so fast. Like, they'll jump a string faster than any animal I've ever seen in my life. I have a video of me shooting at an axis deer at 80 yards and it's we have a slow-mo of the arrow So as the arrows coming is a perfect shot within 10 yards of him.

32:41He hears it and And he's gone It's the craziest thing like you you look at it You're like how the fuck did he move that fast? This thing's going at least but from the actual like leaving the bow. It's going 275 feet per second. Yeah. And he can get out of there within 10 yards. Within 10 yards, he's hearing it coming and he's like, see ya. Yeah. And nowhere near him. Like, he was a foot in front of, it was, the arrow landed a foot behind his ass. Jeez. That's how fast they move. Yeah. It's crazy. How long did you go there for a while or just kind of like a few times trips? We found that the best time to hunt is actually in the afternoon because in the afternoon it's really windy and when it's really windy it covers your sound a little bit okay the morning's rough yeah the morning's rough like the morning i got a couple of them in the morning couple of times morning hunting i got a deer but it's a lot of blown stalks you got to walk super slow you got to be real cautious and again there's a lot of high brush and you don't know where the fuck they're hiding yeah you got to kind of find a pinch point yeah you jump one and then the rest of them sound The way they bark and all of that's pretty crazy too.

33:55Yeah, it's weird. It's a weird noise. What you got to kind of do is like find where they're going to be and just wait. Because they travel so much. They do so much moving. You think I'm just going to go, you know, still hunt and spot and stalk and I'll find one. You're almost better off just staying put. Just staying put and wait for them because they're moving all over the place. There's so fucking many of them. It's crazy. Yeah. But it's amazing how unsuccessful people are bow hunting them. rifle it's a done deal if you want meat and it's the best meat in the world for the people that live there it's incredible I mean they have access to the best meat in the world 100 % they're going to get a deer but if you have a bow we went there and then so I went with Remy I went with John Dudley Cam Haynes and Adam Greentree like all seasoned bow hunters everybody got a deer And we made a podcast about it.

34:53We had a good old time. They had 150 people go over the next year. And one was successful with a bow. Yeah. That's crazy. Take your chances. Yeah. That's how hard it is. Yeah. Because it's like these fuckers are, they're dialed in, man. And they move. A lot of people chasing them too. Yeah. They know the game, right? Yeah. 365 days a year they get hunted. There's no season. And then they have snipers that are after them at night because, you know, they use it for meat for the restaurants and meat for people. And they just have to control the population. There's so many of them and no predators.

35:26Yeah, and still can't thin them out, right? I know. It's crazy. I think they got a good head start. They eradicated them from the Big Island. Oh, did they? I didn't know. Yeah. Somebody tried to reintroduce them or introduce, I should say, to the Big Island. And they're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We know where this is going. These are going to destroy people's crops and destroy people's gardens. Take over. And they already have plenty of wild pigs on the Big Island. So they just they whacked them all. Unfortunately, it's kind of like the pigs here in Texas. Right. Great. And it got wild.

35:56I don't know. You know, growing up here when I was younger, I never remember them being like how they are now. They don't stop. They have three or four litters a year. And each litter has I think they can have as many as six piglets. It's crazy. They just and they can get pregnant six months old. At six months old, they can get pregnant. They're ready to rock. And they're just spitting out pigs. And just tearing tearing shit up. Yeah. We have a lease out here for hunting land, me and some of my friends. And the amount of pigs is disturbing. It's like you hear them everywhere. You hear them in the bushes.

36:31They're all over the fucking place. It's like most of Texas probably that's not like city has wild pigs in it.

36:41Taking over, man. And it all came over on boats. That's how it all got here. Is that how it all got? Yeah. Yeah. It's important, man. Yeah, guys from Europe, they brought boats in the boats. Some of them brought pigs, and then they let them loose. That's crazy, man. Tearing stuff up. Yeah, I don't ever remember them being as bad as they were in the last 15 years or so. It's actually bad in California, too. And California has them from William Randolph Hearst. Didn't they eradicate them off the Channel Islands out there? I think so. I think the islands, and they had mule deer on some of the islands out there, too, right?

37:18Mm-hmm. I forget which island had mule deer. But apparently they had like a, like you could go hunt on one of these islands. Yeah, I think you might still be able to like on Catalina or a couple, but maybe. Do they really allow that stuff? They did because I know my buddy Matt, he did it like maybe last year or the year before, but I think they're trying to put a stop to it and kind of stop it. Those Channel Islands are pretty interesting. I remember first moving out there, even just going out there 15 years ago. seeing the islands out there, you know, and I'd ask people all around. I was like, man, what's the deal with these islands out there?

37:56And half the people that I would talk to be like, what are you talking about? Islands. And I'm like, that island right out there. They're like, oh, I thought that was Long Beach. You know, I'm like, really? I was like, have you looked at a map? You know, I love maps. So I started, you know, doing some research and figuring out all about it. And they're really cool. And over the years, I've met some really cool guys who go out there a lot and spearfish. And just to go out there to them. And besides Catalina, like Santa Cruz and San Miguel, you know, they're all like nature preserves and protected.

38:28So it's like going back in time when you get out there. And I love it out there. It's such a cool spot. Are they trying to eradicate deer from Catalina? I think I've read something about that. Let's see if that's true. I think they're trying to remove the deer because they said the deer were non-native to the island. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's what they did with the hogs. And I don't know. There's like a specific island fox out there. Yeah, here it is. As of early 2026, California officials have approved a controversial plan to fully eradicate the non-native mule deer population on Santa Catalina Island to restore the ecosystem.

39:08Around 2 ,000 deer introduced in the 1930s for hunting will be removed by ground-based hunters to protect native biodiversity. Come on. That sounds crazy. How about just let people hunt them? Fuck's wrong with you. So the issue is Catalina Island Conservancy considers the mule deer an invasive species that disrupts the ecosystem as they consume native plants and seedlings while spreading fire-prone invasive grasses. Really? I just always worry about conservancies and their judgments on things like that because there's a lot of... They want to eradicate all the pigs from Texas or from California, rather.

39:57They think of them as non-native and they want them out too, but you're not going to. They want to eradicate... There's like elk in California that are Yellowstone elk that were brought there in like the 1950s That they want to eradicate like that to like the Tule elk. No, they're actually they're actually Rocky Mountain now, okay? Yeah, but they're there were a larger breed of Rocky Mountain elk They're they call yellow apparently like in the Sierras are down along the coast and so touch be that's be up in that area on those mountains. Big fucking elk, like 400-inch elk. Like a couple of those elk out there that are in the front, that's what they're from.

40:37That's from there? Those are massive. Yeah, that's from Tejon Ranch. Okay. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's like going up over the grapevine. Exactly. That's where you got those? Uh-huh. Wow, I had no idea that they were that big out there. It's the biggest private ranch in California. It's like 270 ,000 acres. I've heard of the ranch, but I didn't know that they had elk like that up there. Yeah. Yeah, one of the rare places. Gorgeous fucking place. But they also go up. It's kind of funny. They go up to, there's a golfing community higher up in Tatchby. And the elk just hang out on the golf course. I just turned it up.

41:14So, like, giant elk, like 400-inch elk, just chilling, hanging out together on the golf course. And dudes are playing golf. That's wild. While they're lying down next to them like 20 yards away. It's crazy. I saw some one time I was driving up the coast. I think I was going up to San Francisco to play a gig. Maybe they're the tule elk. I'm not sure what they were. But I was along the coast there, and I looked over in the field, and there was like 30 head of them just laying down over there. I'm like, oh, man, I didn't even know there were elk down here. I love seeing wildlife that in unexpected places.

41:49Yeah. They recently just found a wolf. in Los Angeles. They're unexpected for me anyway. Oh really? Yeah. See if you can find the story about that wolf that they just discovered in Los Angeles. There's a mama bear, a black bear with three cubs running around in Topanga. Oh yeah. There's a lot of those. A lot of lions running around. There's a lot of bears. I've seen them in Pasadena in people's pools. I knew there was a bunch out in Pasadena in Glendale. Look at this. Protected in Los Angeles County for the first time in more than a century. Crazy. Isn't that nuts? Yeah. Those guys can fucking travel.

42:31I had a lady on who was a wolf biologist, and she was talking about, like, the, you know, they'd collar some of these wolves, and they would track them. They would go 500 miles. Yeah. Like, it's kind of insane. I didn't know that. Yeah. That's incredible. Well, that's how they learned about them. It's really the only way to tell is to put a collar on them and track them by GPS. And they're extraordinary animals. Where were they originating from in Montana, Wyoming? And where were they going, the ones that they were tracking? I think the ones that they were tracking were the part of the group that was brought in in the 1990s.

43:08So there was that pack and the subsequent packs that came after that. There were all the reintroduced wolves. And so they would, you know, dart and collar some of them. And when they would do that, they would just track their motion. They're like, Jesus. They're covering some ground. They're covering some ground. They're covering some ground. And it's interesting, too, that they actually make mountain lions kill more deer. Good competing with them. Yeah, because the mountain lions kill a deer and then the wolves will steal it. So they'll come up on the mountain lion and they'll surround them. And the mountain lion will go, fuck this, I'm out of here.

43:42And he'll just go kill another deer. So he doesn't even get a chance to eat his deer because the wolves keep stealing his deer. They keep tracking the lions, probably just following them around. They're smart, man. Let them do the dirty work, yeah. They do. They let them do the dirty work and then they steal their food. Work smarter, not harder, huh? What does it say? The wolf that they found? Yeah, this is from February when they first spotted it. So the wolf was born in 2023, Plumas County's, where's Plumas County? It's traveled more than 370 miles. Wow. Wow. Including crossing State Route 59 near Tachapi.

44:14There you go. They had one up in Tachapi, too, that a buddy of mine. It was actually closer to the city that's down there. What is that fucking city? Bakersfield? Bakersfield. Yeah. Exactly. Wildlife officials now estimate at least 60 wolves live in the state. Wow. One crossed over in 2011. Wow. Wow. From California, from Oregon. So they find him in the Tatchapy Mountains. Interesting. Biologists told newspapers that she could encounter a mate in the nearby region such as Tatchapy Mountains, potentially forming a new pack or continue to roam. What was that picture you just had of the elk? Yeah, that's that golf course.

44:56Look at that. Giant fucking elk chilling on the golf course. On the flag. Yeah, look how beautiful that is. God, so pretty out there. Massive elk. Oak Tree Country Club. Perfect sanctuary for them, right? Oh, yeah, man. And it's just, it adds to the coolness of playing golf. I mean, you're playing golf around giant, beautiful animals. I bet those greenskeepers love them, though. Right. They probably fuck up all kinds of things up there. Yeah. It's, the wolf thing is interesting because they just brought them back to Aspen, and they did a really stupid thing. They brought them into an area where it has a lot of livestock, and they brought them in from a place in Oregon where these wolves had all been captured because they were killing agriculture.

45:45Yeah. So what did they do? They captured them, and they dropped them off in Colorado where they started killing cows again. In the national park. They just do it. Well, it's on people's – my friend's ranch. One of them, they dropped three wolves off on my friend's ranch. That's tough, man. I've heard that even with the bears and stuff. You get some problem bears or whatever, and then they go drop them out where the farmers and rancers are living. It's like, man, how's that going to work? Well, it's the people in charge of these things and making these decisions. They don't understand what they're doing.

46:15They're monkeying around with wildlife, nature, biology, and you don't know what you're doing. You have no idea. Also, how the fuck do you in good conscience take a wolf that's used to killing cows and put him around other people's cows? Yeah, it's already programmed, man. The dinner bell is ringing. It knows exactly how to do it. It knows it's easy. They're all fenced in. They taste delicious. Why would it stop? Or why would it go chase tougher prey, right? So now these poor ranchers have to have people monitoring their cows 24-7. They have to have cowboys up all night that are wandering around and on horseback and just looking for wolves.

46:57I mean, it's a disaster. They've killed dozens of cows. And these are folks that, you know, have been, like, we've been surviving on this land for generations and dealing with that and, you know, have a history with managing that stuff. You know, it would probably be the folks I'd want to ask of how to handle it, you know. Well, they would certainly tell you, don't let the wolves in. And if you do, kill them, you know. But now it's gotten to the point where I think they're going to have to do something about them. Will they put a hunting limit on them? You think? Honestly, that would probably do something, but really what you should do is hire someone to recapture them.

47:37And don't drop them off there. Don't drop them off in fucking Aspen, you idiot. Because they're going to eat people's poodles, too. They don't give a shit. If they run out of cows, if somehow or another the ranchers scare them away from the cows and they make it into the town of Aspen, you don't think they're going to eat your golden retriever? They're going to eat all kinds of dogs. They eat dogs in Alaska all the time. Yeah. Yeah, I hear a lot of those, like the lions and stuff, man. You're coming after your kids. Yeah. You know, there's been a stuff, that Malibu Creek Park, you know, I've heard a couple of incidents there, you know, hit.

48:09It's like, man, they're going to go eat something. Especially when they're old. Yeah. When they get old. Mm-hmm. You know, and they can't catch a deer anymore. Yeah. And they're hungry and they haven't eaten in a few days. and then they see a kid hanging around a little too close to the outside of the woods. I got a big one that comes right by my house. I got a little game trail camera set up, and I got a little fountain right in the front. It doesn't come around when I'm there because we got the dogs a lot, but whenever I'm out of town for weeks at a time, I'll come back, and that sucker's just laying on my front porch.

48:39Whoa. Just massive. And then the other day, a friend of mine was taking the trash out, and it was like around lunchtime, and it jumped over the fence into the driveway and had a dead rabbit in its mouth just looking at her, you know, and she's like. Holy shit. They're there, you know. So every time I'm even walking around by myself or with the dogs, you're just like, man, sucker, just being a tree looking at me right now. Yeah, you're just living with monsters. Yeah. Whew. You're there. California spent more than$100 million trying to make a bridge over, I forget which freeway it is. I think it's the 101.

49:17Is it the 101? I think you're right. So they spent over$100 million and it's still not done. Oh, my gosh. For a bridge. A bridge for the mountain lions. Like, you fucking dorks. It's like this idea of, like, it's going to be a bridge, but it's going to have dirt and grass on it. So it'll encourage them to walk across so they don't have to go over the highway and die. It's a bit nicer than the roads we're driving on. Yeah. Well,$110 million is crazy. And it's still not even done. Yeah. Like, it's so crazy. So that's what it, early 2026. It's like going up to Ventura, right? Yeah. Yeah. So they want to have this big dirt mound and this bridge so the animals can get across the highway.

50:04But it's just like, it's so goofy. And they never want people to do anything about the population of mountain lions. Regardless of how out of control they are, they don't do anything about it. They have to hire people. The state has to hire people to go and get the bad mountain lions, the ones that are problems. And when they capture them, one of the things they find out is they actually kill them, right? So one of the things they find out when they examine their diet, it's like 50 % pets. Yeah. 50 % dogs and cats. That's what your mountain lions are eating. That's crazy. Yeah. And they spend money, like a lot of money, going after these mountain lions.

50:41and instead they could make money by letting people hunt these mountain lions and giving them tags and control the numbers. In that place, Tejon Ranch, one of my buddies works there, and they have a trail camera set up on a pond, and they found 16 different cats that were drinking out of that pond. Oh, my gosh. That's insane. I was like when I first started going out there, too, the coyotes, you know, and even around like in Hollywood and stuff. I swear I just saw a coyote running down the street with a pair of sunglasses on Eating better than any of us When I went there in 94 that was the first time I ever saw a coyote I couldn't believe it.

51:23I was staying at the you know They have those furnished apartments the Oakwood furnished apartments. Oh, no, not really temporary like for people that are like Don't have a house yet, and you got to move to California quick. They have this place called Oakwoods and you go in there, it's already got a couch, it's already got a TV, it's already got a bed. You're like, okay. Like an Airbnb type of thing? Yeah, almost like you just move in. And I was driving up to the entrance to the place, and I see these little dogs on the street. I was like, what the fuck is going on? He's dog. That ain't no dog.

51:54I was like, oh my God, they're coyotes. Like, this is weird. And so this is like 94. I had never seen a fucking coyote. They hadn't even heard of a coyote being out just wandering in the street. I just couldn't believe it, that they just wander around on the concrete. Man, they're everywhere. I feel like I've seen more there than anywhere. You see them more in town than you do anywhere else. Yeah. Well, they have large populations of them in downtown where they know where they den up. They den up in certain warehouse buildings. Okay. Like abandoned buildings and under bridges and freeways and stuff.

52:30Yeah. They live there. They probably keep the rat population. Nature will take back over one day, won't it? Exactly. Yeah. I think they probably keep the rat population in check, though. Yeah. If you think about it. Yeah. I keep a lot of other things in check, too. Right. Cats. Well, there's a terrible video from Woodland Hills a few years back where a guy was unloading his car and his toddler was out there in the grass. I saw that. And the coyote grabbed his toddler and tried to run away with his kid. Yeah, I saw that. But, man, I'm always watching around for stuff with our kiddos or just people around the neighborhood and stuff.

53:09You've got to remind yourself. They're there, and they're not scared of you. Exactly. They're not afraid. I remember one of the first times I went up to Ojai, just north of L.A. there. I just wanted to go up there and go hike around and check out the area. And there was an archery shop up there. And I had this old guy. He kind of looked like Charlie Daniels, just overall, his big old beard. And I walked in there just to check out the shop and also just ask him about some areas to go stomp around. And I had an Australian Shepherd dog at the time. And I just asked him where good places to go stomp around.

53:46He said, yeah, you go up there. He goes, but I wouldn't take your dog with you. I was like, really? Why? And he's like, man, those lions are a real deal up here. And he's like, you won't see them until they're on you. Yeah. Yeah. And I just I knew they're lying to stuff like that. But hearing it from from that guy, you know, maybe he's trying to scare me a little bit. But, you know, there's it's it's a real deal. It's real. It's real. And they try to downplay it because the all the wildlife lovers, all the greenies, they don't want you like sound the alarm and killing them. What their goal is to have zero hunting.

54:25Their goal is to have all the animals just balance each other out. That ain't going to happen. You can't. Not with humans in the mix. No. The humans have interrupted that whole idea, right? So if you've got a city and then you've got wild giant predators, like 170-pound cats that are killing dogs, and they're like, you've got to control them. Can't manage one without managing the other, right? And so the first thing they did to stop people from doing it is they banned hunting with dogs. So if you ban hunting with dogs, guess what? You basically, you're killing most of the hunting. Because the reality of mountain lions is you can't find them.

55:02They're really hard to find. Really hard to catch. Really hard to find. And the best way to control their population is to tree them. And you get dogs to tree. Because that way you know if it's a tom or if it's a female. You know if it's mature. You know what size it is. You have a really accurate estimation. You can look up at it. Oh, that's a mature tom. That's what we're looking to kill. And then you can control their population. That's the only way. Same with bears. It's a great way to control bears. Yeah, see what it is and decide if it needs to go or if it needs to stay, right? Yeah. But they do little things to stop the effect of hunting first.

55:39So California, you can still hunt for black bears, but you can't use dogs anymore. And so as soon as they stopped the use of dogs, the amount of black bears they harvested went way down. So the amount of bears in the population went way up. Yeah, I don't think they've, I mean, I know they've been around in Pasadena a lot, but I don't think there's been one in Topanga for a while. I mean, I've been up there, shoot, almost 15 years and hadn't heard of one. This is the first time that one's kind of made it over into that area that I know of anyway, maybe up, you know, around the Malibu Creek and those state parks.

56:11In Topanga, there's probably people feeding them. Oh, 100%. I've got berries for you, my friend. Giving them weed.

56:22Some berries. Topanga's great, but it always sketches me out if a fire catches. Oh, man. We got hit hard last year, you know, the Palisades stuff. And, man, that was kind of it for me, too. I was like, I'm out. It's terrifying. I've evacuated out of there several times over the years, but I've got horses up there now and stuff like that. And luckily I had like a, I always keep a big truck and a trailer just in case. And I've got some friends down in Burbank that have some stables, you know, that I'll have like as a backup plan. But this was just a different deal. As a crow flies, I could see the smoke from the Palisades, you know, like a mile away.

57:04And we were actually working in our arena there, and smoke came up. And I was like, shoot, let's just go. Every time I see the smoke, like, I don't wait. I'm just like, we'll be the first ones out and beat the mad rush of everybody that's going to decide to try to stay. And loaded up the trailer and the truck and the camper and the dogs and all that stuff. And I was like, let's go. And my wife and I went down to Burbank. And I remember we were driving through the night, and the wind was just howling like, I've never seen before and power lines are snapping and it's just like trees are coming down and it just felt like the end of the world you know and uh we get to Burbank and we pull back in these stables and there's a kind of a big cinder block wall and I just got as close to that as I could because it was blocking the wind you know from hitting us and the next morning I woke up and I just my throat was sore and hurt and I could hardly breathe and I opened the camper door and and the Altadena fire had started, and it was right there.

58:03And so it was just a mountain of black smoke coming over the top of us there. And so I was like, let's go, and let's get out of here. Let's, like, head north. And I had some friends in Moore Park, you know, up in that area, going towards Ventura that had horses, trying to find some places to go with some horses. And they were like, yeah, come on up here. So we went up there, stayed there a night, and then they cut all the power off up in that area because the winds were snapping power lines, and they were worried about fires. And, you know, after doing that a few nights and hours, like, let's just head east and go to Texas.

58:37There's always so many friends you can, like, show up with five horses and a bunch of dogs, you know, like, hey, we're going to stay for a while, you know. Especially in California. Yeah, we're like, let's just get out of here and head back. And you didn't know when we were going to make it back. And they, you know, closed indefinitely or whatever. I was just like, man, I'm over it. I got evacuated a bunch of times when I lived there, but the last one was 2018. And when the last one, we got out early. I came home from the comedy store and we saw fire coming over the top of this hill. And it was probably like 1 o 'clock in the morning and me and my wife were sitting there.

59:12I go, what do you think? And she's like, let's get the fuck out of here. Let's get the fuck out of here. Let's just grab some shit and maybe it'll come this way, maybe it won't. So it didn't burn the house down, but my neighbors, the front three neighbors all lost their house. And my next door neighbor, his roof caught on fire. But my friend who refused to leave, he stayed in the neighborhood and protected his house and guided firefighters. He brought the firefighters to that house and showed them that it just started on this guy's roof and they hosed it down. They stopped it in his tracks. But it was pretty fucking bad.

59:46It's wild because you know it's going to burn. I mean, it's not a matter of, you know, if, it's just when. And, I mean, canyons have been burning like that for thousands of years. And even the Chumash, we're setting them on fire on purpose to get ahead of it, right, and control and all of that stuff. And now there's just so many houses and communities back up in there. It's a tough thing. But when they hit, man, they're rolling through how fast they come through. Those Santa Ana winds are blowing like that. It's just very surreal in person. You can watch it on the news and you kind of get a feeling of it.

1:00:20But when you're there and you're driving down the 101 and you look at the side of the highway and you see like these hills in the distance are just covered in fire. Hundreds of yards of fields of fire just making their way over the top of this hill and burning houses. We saw it when the Palisades thing was starting. You know, from our house, it's kind of a little mountain that comes up on the back. And I hiked up there and was watching it. and you could see the smoke, and then you could, like, start seeing little flickers of the flames. And then it was just like somebody dumped gasoline on this thing.

1:00:55And, I mean, the flames shot up hundreds of feet into the air. And my wife was on the balcony, you know, the house, and I'm kind of up on this little mountain. I'm looking over, looking in her eyes. I'm like, start packing up. I'll go hook up the horse trailer. I'll be up and say, let's load up and just, poof. And, you know, the wind was blowing, like, offshore then, you know, so the fire is, like, on the coast, you know. And it's depending on how that wind is blowing, you know, at the beginning it was blowing offshore. And then within a half an hour it just shot up the coastline and just ripped up through Malibu and burned all that coast.

1:01:36Like, that's the stuff that you always thought was the safest, you know. And then the next day the wind shifts coming back on shore and it blows it back towards Burbank, you know, going back up like the fourth up that way. And then the winds are shifting again and then coming back across, you know. So I was amazed at some of the fires that I've been through, seeing the firefighters up there. Those guys are incredible, man. Those helicopter pilots, the airplane pilots, seeing those tankers fly through there. I mean, it's just incredible what those guys can do. I mean, they saved that whole canyon, you know, of Topanga at least.

1:02:15It's like, man, there's so much brush in there that probably needs to burn. It's been accumulating over years, you know, and cutting those fire breaks and seeing them drop the retarded on the ridge lines and stuff and watching the wind. It's just like, man, hats off to those guys. Absolutely. I mean, think about the amount of damage that was done in that fire and how much more would have been done if it wasn't for the firefighters. That's how crazy it is. Yeah. Yeah, it is. And I met one of the helicopter pilots. I was on a flight somewhere. And we just happened to be sitting next to each other and we were talking about it.

1:02:51And just, you know, learning from him, you know, about, you know, the thermals that come up from underneath and trying to hold those helicopters and, you know, in formation and all of that stuff and how heavy they are when they're full. Right. And then as soon as you release all that water, whatever's in them, all of a sudden the power that they got, throttle's full throttle when they're loaded down. And then they drop all that water and trying to get back a hold of it. Oh, I never even thought of that. Yeah, it must have been an enormous difference. 90-mile-an-hour winds blowing. And I could see them from the house.

1:03:27There'd be like two or three helicopters that would come in, start dropping water, and then they would move out. and then the planes would come in and then helicopters back in. Then you had the guys on the ground trying to contain it as well, just the coordinated effort between them. I can imagine the conversations there. Yeah. Hey, man. It's so crazy that they didn't have the reservoirs ready. Oh, dude, it's so sad. I had Spencer Pratt on. He's running for mayor now. He was explaining it, like how bad it was. Yeah. how do you fuck that up that bad it's devastating to hear that it's like you know that that stuff's coming you know it's just to not be prepared for that it's just unacceptable incompetence yeah just complete total incompetence and yet they still are there like you you're definitely not good at the job and yet you don't take any personal responsibility and blame everybody else and the problem.

1:04:31And it's just fucking it's a problem that happens every few years. Like you're going to get fires, period. The fact that you don't have a full reservoir is crazy. It's crazy. Dump all your resources into fixing that fucking reservoir. Stat. Get that shit filled up. The residents are more prepared than anybody. You know, because I think they just got to where they you can't depend on it. You know, I mean, I know our neighbors and stuff have a pretty good program in place. We all get together and talk about who's got fire hoses and swimming pools with access to water and where evacuation plans. There's some folks that have horses, but they don't even have a horse trailer up there.

1:05:12I'm like, okay, I'll come get yours too or whatever we need to do. You kind of just have to have that mentality, I think. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. You know what's really freaking me out about the Palisades is what is in the ground now? How much toxic shit got melted into that ground? Because think about how many people have electric cars now. Well, all those old houses too. You know what I'm talking about? The materials that they're made out of, asbestos or lead. I mean the stuff in the air that was – even if you were several miles away from the actual fires, the wind and blowing all the ashes and the smoke and all that stuff over.

1:05:56I remember going back up in there, you know, weeks and just trying to get stuff out of the house or whatever when they'd let us back up. And you could still, it would just make your throat hurt, you know, breathing that air and stuff. So it's bad stuff. It's not just wood fire. Yeah. No. No. Like chemicals. Yeah. Wood fire is hard enough, but the chemicals, burnt TVs and computers and hard drives and electronics and refrigerators treated lumber yeah all that shit's gonna get in your groundwater like it's it's it's on the surface it's gonna rain it's gonna seep through like what happens to the water is anybody checking the water out there no you gotta imagine i doubt it especially like topanga i bet a lot of folks have wells don't you think i think there's some you know It's definitely all like on septic up there, too.

1:06:47You know, I mean, all the all of the building code stuff's got pretty crazy up there. I don't know. It's a mess. I would just worry about even breathing the air that has the dust of all that shit in it. Like, I probably wouldn't want to live there anymore. If I was in a place where all the houses burnt to the ground and I knew there was toxic shit in the ground, I'd be like, hey, let's get the fuck out of here and sell our house to China. Oh, man. Because that's the other thing Spencer said. They're the ones who are the number one land buyers in the Palisades. It's China. Is it going to be a golf course resort up there before we know it?

1:07:24Who knows? Or affordable housing. One or the other. I don't know either. I don't know, but it's just I really wonder what the long-term damage of all those chemicals in the ground is. It has to be pretty high. gotta be you know i don't know you know i was talking to some friends of mine out the other day that have grown up there lived out there their whole lives and you know going over the channel islands you you know they've got those oil platforms out there in the water and there's been oil spills obviously throughout there through history and um but also like when you're surfing and stuff like that there's oil that's been on top of the ground it's just like so surface level that's been there for millions of years you know and so i don't know you know it's like i'm sure All the toxic stuff that happens, how long does it take for it to dilute?

1:08:12There's not much rain or the wind. I'm not an expert on it, but I feel like Mother Nature takes pretty good care of herself. We're the ones in trouble, right? Right. Mother Nature has sorted it out over time, but I just don't know how good it's going to be for the people that live there. It can't be the long term. I have a buddy that has a house out there, and he lost his house and it burnt down. and I asked him about it and he said, I think what they're going to do is take all the dirt out of their backyard and then replace the dirt. And I'm like, okay. I don't know if that's enough. Because what about his dirt?

1:08:47What about your neighbor's dirt? What about all the toxic shit that's in his dirt that's going to get down into your ground as soon as it rains? And also the air. Along with all the roundup and everything else is coming down.

1:09:02It's sad, man. You know, it's that that's just the kind of state of it's like it's it seems like just it's so far of a mess that even the folks that do have answers that do want to fix stuff. It just kind of becomes impossible for any solution. You know, it's like all the red tape and all the hoops and things and all the permits or whatever. Like you can't even, you know, the roads blocked. OK, well, before we could even get somebody out here with a tractor to move the rocks, you got to call 10 other people to get it approved. and in the process and then it's not and it's like that's the part i'm just like man i wish i could just call frank down the street with his bulldozer we'll just go we'll just go move this right now you know and it's like you know well government has increased so much in california and they just want more regulations so they could justify more government and so they just regulate themselves to a place where people just want to leave yeah just go look i can't fucking do this anymore let me get out of here and it's expensive man it's so expensive to live there yeah meanwhile it's beautiful it's such a great place they fucked it up so hard it's paradise it's paradise mountains within like two three hours you can be in the sierras you can be in joshua tree national park skiing yeah and then swim in the ocean on the same day it's gorgeous yeah beautiful places i've ever been yosemite i mean get out of town you know incredible weather kern river like man it's It's beautiful.

1:10:27But they got ruined. They got ruined with progressive politics and bureaucracy that just ramped up all the control they have over people to the point where you can't even buy flavored Zins. They banned blackjack. You can't have blackjack anymore. They just stopped blackjack in the casinos. They stopped flavored Zins. They just regulated into oblivion. There are all these people that want to be the mommy of the world and tell you what to do. Like, fuck off. Yeah. Like, fuck off with all your goddamn rules. You're just making your government bigger so you can justify all these fucking rules. And you need the rules for the government to sustain itself.

1:11:14So you just keep adding more rules and adding more government. Yeah. We were reading about it the other day. Like, what was the number that California's government went up by, like, 24 % and their population went up by, like, 1 %? I know. And now we're running out of places to go. I forget what the actual numbers were that we found, but it's— Yeah. I'm always looking for hideouts, you know, to kind of get away from. It's like, man, you find a spot to go to, you kind of don't want to tell nobody about it. I know, right? That's what I hear about West Texas. I think that's hard about Montana. You know, when I first started going up there years ago, I mean, it was just such a—and it still is.

1:11:53It's a paradise. It's just, you know, and I think that's probably what a lot of people are upset about. I lived up there. It's like, man, the secret got out a little bit, and I can understand that. I get it. I get it from that perspective. You got to let that go. Where's the next place, you know? The thing about Montana, though, or like Wyoming, another example, is that winter will thin the herd. It's like West Texas. That's funny. Same kind of thing, like, you know, Marfa and that area. You know, I grew up all out there going to junior rodeos and all kinds of stuff. And it was just ranches, you know, and, you know, local diners and stuff like that.

1:12:28And, you know, I hear people going out there and buying houses and, you know, all that stuff. And then they go out there for like a week and they realize that the only thing open at night is the Dairy Queen. They're heading back to New York pretty quick. Yeah. You're right about Montez. Those winters will thin them out. The winter gets you. The winter's rough. It's cold. We were, the first time I ever went hunting was with Rinella. That's where I got that mule deer that's on the table right there. And it was nine degrees in October and we're camping. And so we're sleeping on the ground and nine degrees.

1:13:03I'm like, bro, how did these fucking people? And you also, you go by these old homesteads. So they were giving land out there for people. You can get a chunk of land, just start farming on it, and the government was encouraging people to move there. But it's all this, like, muddy ground. Like, the ground is, like, mucky. Like, when you hike in it after, you know, a while, your boots are so heavy. Just clay, huh? Because they're just thick with this clay. Yeah, just muck all over your boots. And so it's not fertile. It's not good, like, in the Missouri Breaks, like that area. It's not good for growing things.

1:13:41So you find these abandoned homesteads. It's really eerie. Yeah. And you just think like this family that came out here in like the 1800s and they tried to set up shop and maybe got killed by Indians. You know, maybe. All the way. I think about my family. I've got stories, you know, of them settling in New Mexico and, you know, coming out on a covered wagon with maybe a steer and a pig. And they're like, yeah, here's a bunch of acres and you've got to prove it up, you know. And dig a hole in the ground is what they're living in a dugout. Dig a hole in the ground, that's where you're living, and you try to build a ranch out of it.

1:14:19I always laugh. I was talking to family or my grandparents. I was like, why did y 'all stop here? You just thought you were so beat down. You were like, oh, this is the driest, flattest place. But we're here, the most roughest. I was like, it's only maybe another thousand miles out to California, or just keep going. They're like, nope, this is it. We're done. Yeah, I guess people didn't know what they were going to find if they kept going either. Like, you want to keep going for, like, another month? Oh, yeah, just miles and miles of more desert and no water. I mean, how long would that wagon trail take?

1:14:57Weeks. Even just, like, Missouri, Texas, and then out to through, even, like, just going through West Texas to get to, you know, southeast New Mexico and all that. And, you know, that's just rough country. and people have always been tough out there. And you're a sitting duck. Yeah. You're a sitting duck. You're slow moving with a wagon pulling the horse, and you got all your shit in the wagon, and they're just looking at you from the hills. Yeah. Wasn't glamorous. No. I know my granddad was a pretty tough old guy and is real a cowboy as you'd ever want to know or meet. you know but he wasn't really one to ever brag or you know talk or fantasize or romanticize about the cowboy stuff you know because it it wasn't romantic then you know it was survival and it was rough and it was work and you know had no running water and i remember um him having a conversation with this guy and he was like some like a tech guy you know he invented all this website shit or whatever and he was asking my granddad he said you know what's the most you an important invention of your lifetime.

1:16:05And I think he was expecting my granddad to say, like, the computer or the Internet. And my granddad said refrigeration was the most important invention. You know? Yeah. When he was growing up, he was like, they had no way to keep their food cold, you know, other than, like, root cellar. You kept it underground, you know? So it was just a perspective, you know? I think everybody was surprised to hear it, you know? Well, I think people are so accustomed to electricity and so accustomed to things like refrigeration. Yeah. You just like. A run in water, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when there was no refrigeration, you had to eat what you had, you know, like that day.

1:16:40And then the next day you had to get something else. Yeah. And unless you knew a place that was an ice house, you know, that would get a giant chunk of ice and you could have a nice box and stick it in there and cool things. Like, you're fucked. Yeah. You're on your own. Yeah. Well, you had to learn how to dry meat. That was a lot of it. Make pemmican dry meat. Make things that'll survive and last. And, you know, that's also how market hunting almost wiped out all the deer in this country because people needed fresh meat every day. So they were just shooting everything that existed. Yeah. And then finally they started looking around and going, hey, we lost all the elk.

1:17:24There's no more deer left. Like, let's make some fucking regulations on this shit. And they stopped market hunting. I did not know that. Yeah. It's interesting. Beginning of the 1800s, by the time, I guess, when did they start doing regulations in terms of hunting regulations in this country? Because obviously they wiped out almost entirely the American bison. They were almost gone completely. And a lot of that was just for tongues. Nah, man, that's crazy. Yeah, they would send them back east. They would pickle their tongues. Didn't Steve Rinella have a show on it? My buddy was telling me. He's got a great book, too.

1:18:04I haven't seen it yet. It's really interesting. He's talking about the history of the bison and hunting and all of that. Yeah, I think his book's called American Buffalo, but it's really good. First hunting regulations appeared in colonial laws in the 1600s, mainly as seasonal closed seasons for certain game-like deer. In terms of nationwide U.S. law, the first major federal game protection statute was the Lacey Act of 1900. which targeted commercial and market hunting and interstate trade in illegally taken wildlife. Yeah, there was elk in every state. Yeah. And we wiped them out. And there was deer in every state.

1:18:42But now there's more deer than there ever has been before, which is interesting. Congress passed the Lacey Act when modern regulations start. So the 1900s. Most states had game and fish commissions, hunting seasons, bag limits and license requirements, all reinforced by federal laws like Lacey Act and later migratory bird protections. Well, it's amazing that they did that. We have an amazing system, too. Like the fact that the United States has so much public land. You know, there's so many different places where people can go and they can hike, they can whitewater raft, they can fish, they can hunt, they can camp.

1:19:23I mean, we're unlike any country when it comes to that. It's like the amount of land that we have that's available to Americans, that it's public for everybody, is fucking incredible. Being up in Montana, New Mexico is like that too, and California. But up in Montana, staying in that wilderness area, that little cabin that I stayed in probably didn't have much land with the cabin. But, man, there's thousands and thousands of acres of wilderness public land with dirt roads everywhere. And, man, I would, you know, on those days off that I had, I would just drive back in there for miles, man, and just see the most beautiful country, you know.

1:20:04And I'd haul my horse back in the way to the trailheads and just go explore stuff, you know. And you'd go over one ridge into the next, and there's a waterfall, and there's another drainage. and it's just like, you know, and this is the wilderness area too. This isn't even a national park. You know, I was like, man, this is as beautiful country as I've ever seen anywhere. Did you run into any grizzlies? I never did. You know, I was always on my toes about it. And I'd talk, you know, knowing Remy up there, he knew that area really well. So I'd kind of ask him spots to go check out about bears and stuff.

1:20:39And he said, man, there weren't too many grizzlies back in there, but you never know, you know, especially coming over from Idaho and stuff like that. So I never did. I've run into some black bears, never in any wolves and all that. But, you know, I don't know, maybe being horseback, too. I don't know. A lot of those places did. But I definitely had my eyes open. Yeah, that's another animal that they want to list again and make them available for hunting, particularly in Montana and Wyoming. They just have a lot of grizzlies. Yeah, they have a lot. and people don't want you to shoot them. They think of it as trophy hunting or whatever it is.

1:21:18It's tough, man. But, man, you live, like you said, like those folks that live back up in there. All they have is their neighbors and people to depend on. And it's like, man, you get mauled by a bear taking your trash out or something like that. That's what your experience is with them. Everybody wants to keep them as pets until they're in the backyard with you. Yeah. They don't play by the rules. they don't play by the rules and they're 900 pounds good luck 900 pound giant fucking wild animal that eats everything it can even like that lion hanging around my house it's like man cool you're fine but why don't you go on down the road I don't need you in my backyard the thing is you can't do anything about it either in Texas you can just shoot them yeah we don't have that problem yeah that's how it should be like you shouldn't have wild monsters living in your yard.

1:22:12Yeah. You should have the right to decide that for yourself. A hundred percent. Not only that, they're going to be fine. There's still going to be plenty of them. Yeah. Okay, but it'll probably be a more healthy number if they get whacked whenever they eat someone's dog. Yeah, and have a healthy respect for coming in your backyard or coming after your animals or your kids. Yeah. Yeah. They should understand that. But just like we're so goofy. We make laws to protect them that don't protect us. Like, help me out. Like, do you love animals more than people? Like, I love animals. But I'm on team people.

1:22:49Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Everybody else is cool, but team people first. Yeah. You know, oh, we got monsters in our neighborhood? No, no, no, no, no, no. We got to kill the monsters so that the kids can play outside. You don't have to worry about them getting eaten. Yeah, me too. I mean, growing up ranching or farming or whatever, I mean, that's your job is to take care of animals, you know. It's animal husbandry. That's your job, I mean, to take care and provide for these animals, to provide food for your family, you know, and the wildlife that's around it, you know. And to take care of the land and the dirt and the water and the grasses and all of that stuff has to be supporting each other to make it all work, you know.

1:23:32and uh at the end of the day i just feel like we've just lost touch it's cities that you know it's urban environments it's unnatural environments that have given people this delusional idea of what our relationship is with nature and you know people just think food comes from a restaurant yeah and you know the ground is for streets and you drive sidewalks yeah pave it all it's all just this delusional perspective that comes from that sort of urban existence and i just think that's why people that live in the country and live in you know environments where like alaska where you're confronted by nature they're like more interesting people they're more robust they're cooler were you saying out there earlier that you rode bulls yeah dude how many times shoot i started when i was a kid you know riding steers when i was like 10 in the junior rodeos and then you were 10 years old and someone let you ride a fucking steer really that's just like it was like little league baseball you know where i grew up so a steer is a bull that doesn't have its nuts yeah and so how much less do they kick when they don't have their nuts oh they're a lot they're pretty dull so oh how old are you here This is, I was like 17.

1:24:55This is in Monterey, Mexico, actually. Wow. Why in Mexico? Look at you, dog. Damn, that's crazy. Damn, dude, you're good. And you got off without getting stomped, too. Yeah. Is it just knowing when to release? Yeah, you got to know when to get off, that's for sure. And right there. Uh-huh. You're like, that's a wrap. Yeah, he kind of bucked me off there. He kind of had me over to the side in the area, you know, but that's a good time to check out. There's like that gray zone, you know. That or you hang on and you end up underneath them. You started out when you were 10 years old, though. How wild are your parents?

1:25:35Like, yeah, that's a good age. Yeah, they ranched and grew up out there. And my uncle rode bulls professionally. Oh, really? Yeah. And that's kind of how I got into it, too. I looked up to him a lot and see pictures of him riding bulls. And then it was just around. And I was like, I want to go try that, you know. And, man, I just got the bug for it, like, super young. I was like just ate up with it. Wow. From 10 years old. That's nuts. Yeah. And so how do you teach someone how to fall off of a bull without getting stomped when they're 10? Well, when you're riding those little steers, you know, a lot of time they cut bulls and turn them into steers because it makes them a lot more dosso.

1:26:15Steers are, you know, typically like 600 pounds, 600, 700 pounds, you know, Compared to a 1 ,500-pound bull that's aggressive and, you know, back that wide and horns like that, you know. They're like little steer, you know. I remember my dad or uncle would get in the chute with me and hold their horns, you know. And, like, they just kind of run out there and jump and kick and fall off on the side. Yeah, not too bad. And then you kind of graduate up into, like, the junior bulls and then the bigger bulls and then the harder they buck, you know. So there's kind of different levels you can progress as you as you go But it was a lot different deal back then when I was riding it was really before the PBR started You know, there was no helmets.

1:26:59There was no vests. There was like none of that stuff. It was Just old-school rodeo, you know but at the same time I Say that but you know, it's it's an evolved in such a sport now like the Bulls are just so much rancor now than they were back then You know, it's like now they're breeding them like racehorses and the genetics where every one of those bulls you know bucks you know and like you got to go to get on three or four of them in the night you know back when I was doing it we'd go to the they were still kind of full rodeos with all the other events and you know out of 15 or 20 bulls there might be one or two in there that were like bad to get on that would hurt you you know the rest of them were pretty rideable you know just to say so and you know we're smoking cigarettes and drinking beer back behind the chutes, that kind of a thing.

1:27:46We weren't training and doing yoga. I like how these guys are today. I loved it. I had so much fun, and I loved the road part of it. Get in the truck with your best buds and go down the road on the weekends, and there's always a band playing. It was so much fun. I loved the culture of it. It was just good times. How many times do you think you've rode bulls? I mean, I rode until I was about 23. From 10 to 23? Mm-hmm. Wow. That was all I ever wanted to do. Really? Yeah, I wanted to just ride bulls, yeah. And I rode in high school. I rode junior rodeos, rode bulls in high school. And then I went to Tarleton State in Stephenville and rode bulls for Tarleton.

1:28:34And then I got my pro card for a couple of years. and that was when like the PBR was like starting up and all of that and um wow it got intense backwards on one what Jamie there's one picture I just lost he was backwards on it oh yeah I was probably getting there it is that's probably getting dusted oh no that's not that's not backwards that guy is about riding backwards I don't know if that's on purpose that seems like a ridiculous choice he pulled it off if he did yeah what a terrible choice yeah it was cool though i i loved it man i loved it how do you go from that to anything else like how do you stop riding bulls and eventually become an actor and a singer it was all very much in kind of a natural progression you know since i was a kid at the junior rodeos there was always a dance afterward and a band playing you know and it's a very much a family community deal you know like you go to these towns and those are the junior the rodeo was going on and then the dance the street dance and uh food and music and you know growing up listening to bands play especially in texas you know you got all the guys like gary p nunn i remember he always played the dance halls and you get robert rokean and some of the you know hearing those bands and um i moved to laredo texas when i was like 16 or 17 when my dad and my mother had bought me a guitar and uh didn't know how to play it much and uh walked into this place my dad was living at and he was playing dominoes with these guys and this guy saw my guitar and he's like yeah you know how to play that thing i said no and he said well let me see it and he picked it up and he played this killer like mariachi song called la malagueña and i was just fascinated with it.

1:30:27I was just like, wow, I can't believe you made that guitar sound like that. I've been dragging that thing around for a couple years. I didn't even know how to tune it up. He's like, you want to learn how to play this guitar? I said, yeah. He said, let me show you this song. He taught me the Malagania. It had a couple little parts, a finger picking part, a strumming part, and it really kind of gave me that foundation, just kind of those few little tools and then I went up to Stephenville to ride bulls at Tarleton after that and a couple of other friends that I'd met there that rodeo could play the guitar a little bit and they had bands that played every weekend in the town there's a little bar there called City Limits where all these bands would come play like Jason Bolin and the cross-Canadian ragweed guys and Pat Green and Robert Earl Keene like all the Texas guys would come play you know so I was like I went from Being on the border, mostly the Carrillos and Tejano bands that I would see, which was really cool.

1:31:22But when I got up there, I was like, oh man, there's all these cool guys writing original music and songs and playing in bands. We'd go watch them all the time. And as I was still rodeoing, the only song I knew was that Malagania tune. So I was like, I've got to come up with some new stuff. That's all I know how to play. I went and got a book of chords to teach myself some new chords on the guitar. And we'd just learn one or two at a time, and I'd start making up songs about our adventures on the weekends. A lot of it was just sitting in the back of the truck and being in places where you didn't have radio signal or nothing to really listen to.

1:31:59You're tired of listening to the same old stuff, and I'd make up songs. And then whatever town we would get to, my buddies would be like, man, play that song you were singing in the backseat. And so that's how the whole songwriting thing started. And then I ended up getting a job working for a guy named Mack Altizer. He had a rodeo company called Bag Company Rodeo in Del Rio. And I'd ridden bulls at some of his rodeos and knew him. My uncle knew him over the years, and so I was kind of familiar with that whole thing. And started working for him on the ranch and helping with some of the rodeo stuff and still riding bulls.

1:32:35And he found out that I could play the guitar and sing a few songs. and he always had a party at the rodeo he was kind of notorious and famous for having like just awesome parties and he's like man all right Bingham get your guitar you're going to play like the after party you know and pull the flatbed trailer up there for the hospitality tent for all the contestants after the rodeo and those are like the first he really encouraged me to like start playing for people and doing that and then it would just spill over into the bars afterwards after the rodeo and everybody would end up going to the bar and I was like Bingham bring your guitar with you and I started getting gigs in the bars.

1:33:10The bars would ask me if I wanted to come back and play and just after like I feel like a few years of that it was just like you know I was kind of a weekend warrior riding bulls I was definitely not gonna making a living doing it always had to have a day job during the week you know you're working on the ranch or doing something and I started getting to where I could go to these bars and make like a hundred bucks and tips, you know, within a couple of hours and get free beer and free food. And I was like, man, this is almost as much as I made all day digging holes with the shovel. It didn't take me long to figure out that that was pretty cool.

1:33:45And I was just like, I'm going to stick with it. What an organic sort of a journey, you know, like a natural progression. Yeah, and I didn't have high expectations, you know, but I just like, and I was talking about kind of community in this Austin area and in Texas in general it's just like man people were so supportive then I'm just like if you had a song to play it people love live music they're like yeah get up and play you know like Mac with the rodeo company and all the guys that worked there Dave Jennings and Casey and Smyr there's a whole crew the Bad Company crew from those days and they always had kind of the Bad Company house band too where everybody would get up and try to play a song and it's just like man we don't care if it's any good or not just get up there and play we're all we're all in it together and there were so many like places that were like that that i i don't think if i was in that environment i probably would never pursued it you know i said so many people you know supporting you and encouraging you to try it and it took me a long time you know to uh work stuff out and learn because i didn't have any really formal music musical background or lessons or training i really just learned it on the road and playing in bars from other musicians.

1:34:57Really? Yeah. So no lessons at all? Just kind of figuring it out along the way? Yeah. Wow. Well, the guy taught me the La Malagania there, but then after that it was just, you know, anybody else who had a guitar and might know a song, I'm like, oh, how do you play that chord? Oh, you play it like this, you know? Yeah. Wow. So how many years were you doing that before you got Yellowstone? Oh, gosh, for a while. I mean, I think my, you know, I was 22 or something like that in Stephenville. You know, Ryan Bull was starting to play songs, trying to play gigs. After, you know, ended up moving down here to New Braunfels in the Austin area playing music for a while and then ended up going out to Los Angeles and playing and then hit the road with a band for, I think I had four or five albums or so you know out you know and been touring for five or six years i think how old was i like when yellowstone started like 36 37 so yeah i'd been playing doing the music stuff for a long time and so how did the yellow how did you go from music to yellowstone like how did you even did you do any act acting before that no i'd been one i'd done a film with jeff Bridges years ago called Crazy Heart and wrote some songs for that movie and that was really my own thing.

1:36:27That was a good movie. It was pretty cool you know I was just like Jeff Bridges plays a musician in the show and I and we're like the backup band at the bowling alley for one of the scenes you know which was really cool and then written some songs for some other films and some TV shows since then, and I met a guy named John Lentz, and he was a producer, and his dad Art Lentz, and they did like Sons of Anarchy, a bunch of shows and a bunch of great movies, and he introduced me to Taylor, and Taylor was, I think it was that movie Wind River, his first movie. I'd met Taylor and just kind of talk about music and stuff, and he wanted me to write a song for Wind River.

1:37:12And I'd given it a shot a couple times, never really had anything that fit for what he wanted, but he ended up using a song that I'd already written. And we just kind of kept in touch. And then when the Yellowstone thing came up, he got in touch again about writing some songs for the show. And then he learned that I used to do all the rodeo stuff, I think, and grew up ranching. And he's like, well, shoot, you can do a lot of this stuff. I got to find a way to get you in the show, you know? And it literally went from the conversation. He was He's like, well, I don't know what I'm going to do with you, but I'll find something to do with you.

1:37:44And he literally said, he's like, you know, if you do good, I'll, you know, he goes, if you suck, I'll kill you off. If you do good, I'll keep you on. Something like that, you know. And I'm like, yeah, good, good. So you had no formal acting, like training or anything? No, not at all. That's what's amazing, dude. You're really good. Oh, I appreciate that. You know, I get to kind of play a cowboy and be a little bit of myself. Yeah, but that role's got some complexity to it. It's not just a cowboy. It's like you've got some complicated scenes, some emotional scenes, some deep scenes, and you're really good, man.

1:38:22Thank you. That's impressive. I appreciate that. I enjoyed it. I hadn't done much acting at all. I've got to give a lot of credit to the actors that are on the show, too, those folks that have really studied it and paid their dues learning that craft. You know, they really create the environment, you know, especially for me not knowing much about it, you know, and just kind of being a part of the scene. Like, they're so good that they make you react in a certain way. Right. You know, they know how to get it out of you. Yeah. You know, Cole and Luke and all those folks, you know, they know how to set up the scene and they know what they're doing.

1:38:59So they already kind of have the whole thing set up. And so when I walk into a scene and they say they're lying to me, it's just like, oh, okay, yeah, I got to answer. Right. I'm just kind of naturally answering that, you know? Right, right, yeah. It's like if you work with a really good actor, sometimes you forget they're acting. You're like, oh, yeah, we're acting. You seem like this is really happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me, I think it was moments when I thought it was really happening. How long did it take before you got comfortable doing that on camera? Still not. Really? Yeah, still not, yeah.

1:39:34Will you play it off? Good. Well, thanks, you know. I think some of it comes from the riding bulls. You know, you learn how to channel that anxiety or fear into just like, oh, okay, it's go time. Let's just kind of like pull it together and channel that, you know. If you could ride a bull, I think you could kind of do basically anything. Man, you know, that's one thing my uncle taught me when I was young. You know, he was really quick to be like, man, it doesn't matter how strong you are. You know, it's not about it. It's all mental. It's all in your mind. And it's all, it's not I think I can.

1:40:08It's I know I can and I will. And he goes, if you don't believe that every time you go put your rope on one of those, on their backs, he's like, it ain't going to happen. Yeah. He says, it's not being cocky. It's just being confident, you know, and believing in yourself and having that power of mind over matter, you know. Yeah, if you could do that, acting's easy. And take that into anything in life. And I do. I definitely have moments where, you know, I'm like, whew, okay. Take a deep breath. Right. It's go time. Let's go, you know. Well, especially having more than a decade of doing that with bulls, like that's so uncontrollable.

1:40:51Like you're at the mercy of fate and how this plays out. Yeah. And you have this enormous beast, and you've chosen to scare the shit out of yourself, get on top of this thing and try to ride it. You've chosen to join the dance. Yeah. If you can do that, if you can do that and be successful at that, I kind of think you can do anything. I think that, I mean, I wouldn't want my kid to do it at 10, but fuck, it's probably, if they could survive, pretty valuable. I laugh. I really pick two of the easiest professions, you know, like riding bulls and playing music. Right. Two that have the least amount of success ratio.

1:41:30Impossible tasks. Did you ever get any serious injuries? You know, I was fortunate, like, not serious. There was one of the worst ever. I knocked all these teeth out, and I got jerked down one night in Weatherford and took my lip off, and my teeth went through down here. These are all fake up here, and then my lip was just hanging right there. It didn't knock me out, which was wild, though. I got on this bull, and I remember it was in Weatherford, Texas, and it's got a butler arena there, and he had this little Angus bull there. Didn't have horns on him, a little muley. And usually you can go up to the guys that own the bulls, and a lot of the bulls have patterns that they'll do over and over.

1:42:16So you can kind of talk to the stock contractor or the guys that own them and be like, hey, what's this bull generally do? And he's like, most of the time they'll take two jumps out and they spin to the left. or they take two jumps and they go to the right or they just, you know, they'll jump, kick around and make a circle. And he goes, man, he goes, I don't know. He's like the last two times I bucked, he hadn't been ridden. He usually jumps out there and just spins right in the gate. And he said, nobody's really ridden him past three or four seconds. So he goes, I don't know what he's going to do after that.

1:42:43And sure enough, that's what happened. I got on him and he jumped out and just got it on right there in the gate, just spinning right there. And I rode him through it like three or four rounds. And after I rode him, like I think the bully didn't know what to do next. He got a little frustrated and he just stopped and just stopped dead still and just blowing and just you know just mad and You never really want to jump off of them when they're still like that because you just you'll fall right beside them You know, so you want them to have a little momentum So when you you know, you're checking out they can you can get away from them, right?

1:43:17And so I spurred him a little bit to get him to jump so when he jumped I could jump off But when I spurred him, it just jumped straight up off the ground like a cat off all fours. And when he jumped up like that, it kind of rocked me back like that. My hand's still tied in the rope. And then when he came down, he just brought all that jerk me down with the fours. And I came forward, and he threw his head back, and I just headbutted him.

1:43:44And when he did, my hand was still caught in the rope. and then he took off running around and just drug me around and just stomped the crap out of me, you know, for a bit. And I finally got loose, and I remember running over to the fence, and I just, you know, I kind of had my arms on the fence, and I could see all the blood just kind of pouring down all over me. And one of the bullfighters ran up, and he looks at me and goes, Oh, buddy. He's like, whoo. So they have to stitch your lip back on? Yeah, you know, and the shock was just, I didn't feel anything. Wow. Like, I was just, like, in shock.

1:44:19I was like, oh, man. You know, I remember, like, my girlfriend was there from high school and my buddy. And we drove to the little, you know, they're like, you want to call an ambulance? I was like, nah, I don't have health insurance. I'm going to call an ambulance, you know. Got in my buddy's car, and we drove her over to the emergency room in Weatherford. And I go in, and the nurse, she's just like, oh, man. She's like, we can't do anything for you here. You're going to have to go to, like, Dallas to, like, trauma. You're going to have to get an oral surgeon to put you back together. She goes, you want me to get you an ambulance there?

1:44:52I was like, no, I think we can make it. She gave me some pain pills. She goes, don't take these now. She goes, hold on to these, and then when you get to Dallas, then take them because you're probably going to have to wait before they can get somebody in there to see us. Sure enough, we got to Dallas, and I'm just sitting there in the waiting room, and I had a rag and I was just holding my mouth together and uh the shock wore off man and then it's you know I was starting to feel it took those pain meds and then doctor came in and held me back and gave me a big shot in the roof of my mouth try to numb everything and just I think it took them longer to clean it all up you know pull all the hair and dirt out of there and sew me up and the tea oh it was an ordeal you know for sure for months after that you know getting and the dental work done and all that crap.

1:45:43So how was the lip hanging off? It bit it all. It would have came all the way off. It was just hanging on right here by the side, so it was just hanging down. And so they just had to stitch the lower part to the upper part and put it all together again? Yeah, just all across, right through the middle. If I shave, I got a big scar that kind of goes down there. Wow. And then they went through down here. So I got some stitches down there, and then most of the stitches were all in my gums and all of that. So they had to put like posts and implants and all that stuff? Wow. Yeah. That shit takes forever, huh?

1:46:16Kind of knocked the front four out and then it just dominoed the rest of them.

1:46:23Riding bulls with no health insurance is wild. That's crazy, man. That's crazy. Yeah, it was just life back then for me. You know, I think going into the music stuff was like, I don't know, I just wasn't really scared about it or even the expectations of making it. I mean, to me at the time, I had a truck and a camper on it. And I was like, man, I was like, I got no bills. I got no responsibilities. I'm just like go make 100 bucks a night playing music in a bar. I was like, this is the dream. You know, I'm like, I made it. Yeah. Well, I think when you've done something super, super difficult, everything else seems easier.

1:47:07And if you've done what you did with riding bulls for that long, like the music business is like, that's the worst that could happen. Yeah. Even the travel part, you know, like, you know, in the early days of playing, when I really decided I was going to try to make a run and play, you know, and it was like, oh, what, we got to get in the van and go drive around and play in bars, you know. I was like, we've been doing that rodeoing for years. We'd sleep in the back of the truck or whatever, and it was fun for us. We loved it. So the idea of starving on the road, playing in a band, playing music, I was like, let's go.

1:47:44And getting a guaranteed paycheck every night. Right, the gratitude you must have. The riding bulls. I mean, half the time, you walked away with nothing. Right. A busted lip, nothing. Yeah, and no health insurance. and you're risking your life and there's not a bunch of people that love you no yeah yeah well it's a great base to start out from you know i mean it sounds like it's almost like the universe engineered this path for you to go down like if you wanted to pick a path yeah that would bring you to where you are right now it is the perfect set of circumstances i i i look at it all the time, you know, just from an outside perspective, I guess, and just like, wow, how in the world did all this come together?

1:48:30And just a lot of luck and perseverance or whatever. And I wouldn't say I haven't worked hard at it, you know, I feel like I have and all that, but there's a lot of luck out there and a lot of good people too, you know. A lot of good people helped me out along the way and gave me gas money and gave me a place to sleep or a place to eat and helped us get other gigs. I mean, I remember going from one town to the next and not having gas money to get to the next and having no plan other than like, let's just head west or head east. And, you know, you'd go play at a bar and sure enough, there'd be somebody there that were like, oh, man, y 'all should come back to my house.

1:49:07We'll have bonfire and play some songs. And he's like, oh, my brother's got a bar in Phoenix. And he's like, call them on your way out. We'd go there, and we'd always chop firewood or wash dishes or wood mow your lawn or wash your car on the way, too, to get gas money and keep on going. Wow. So that was just kind of how I always felt like I learned earlier. If you were willing to help yourself, people would help you all day long. I think luck is a factor, but it's only a factor if you've already had all those other experiences. Think about it. If you hadn't ridden bulls, you hadn't gone through all the ranching, all the hard labor, all the different things, then, like, you probably wouldn't have capitalized on that luck the same way.

1:49:53No, not at all. Your character wouldn't be the same. No. You know, it's like part of who you are is the character that you've developed from what you've done. It kind of conditioned me to do it in a big way. And it seems like it's your life. It's almost like it's engineered for this to happen the way it happened. which is kind of crazy it's been cool man i feel very storybook you know yeah very like movie like a plot in a movie guy who's a cowboy bull rider starts singing songs people like hey you should probably do this for a living and then someone's like hey man you should be on tv you know the next thing you know you're on one of the biggest hits in the world i feel like that that song you know one day they're gonna put me in the movie yeah I was like how am I living this thing right now you know it's like I know I meet people all the time they're like oh like you know they just they can't really believe where I'm from or whatever they just think it's some like made-up story I'm like oh yeah all right man you know well it seems like a story that someone would make up if they wanted to pretend to be a cowboy yeah well I think a lot of people have i bet right i bet yeah and a lot of people still do yeah isn't that funny uh-huh that's funny that's like stolen valor almost yeah you know i think like in all kinds of stuff you know professions or whatever you know people pretend to be the oh yeah what it is would you oh yeah would you mind if i went to the restroom oh no no no not at all i totally understand i want to keep talking about i don't want to stop this let's pause take a leak we'll We'll be right back, folks.

1:51:28And we're back. Yeah, it's kind of funny that people would want to fake the life that you've lived, but that is such a romantic story. Like, it's such a movie that it makes sense that people want to fake it. It's got to be weird walking around, like, having lived a life that people would want to fake and pretend that they lived. It is. It is sometimes, you know. It's like, you know, I remember when I really started for, you know, playing music and stuff. I mean, I wore a cowboy hat all the time. I rode bulls and, you know, it was very much my identity, you know. Cowboy stuff wasn't really cool then, you know.

1:52:10I feel like in the early 2000s and all of that, you know, there wasn't a big Americana scene or, you know, any of that kind of stuff, you know. and definitely going to New York or going to Los Angeles and touring around, I'd be the only one wearing a cowboy hat. I remember the first time, one time I was in L.A., we were out on the Santa Monica Pier, and there was a guy that had the one-man band thing out there, and there's all these tourists on the pier. I'm just out there checking out the scenery and just minding my own business. And this guy gets on the microphone, and he just points over at me and goes, oh Brokeback Mountain and everybody on the pier turned around and looked at me and they're just pointing at me and laughing at me and I'm just like ah okay you know so I was like that was the association with the cowboy hat at the time that's hilarious yeah they changed cowboys for a while now it's a whole new ball game throw a whole new lucky wrench into that that legend but you know now playing and man I'm so stoked to see all these new bands out there and like so many young folks playing actual instruments.

1:53:23You know, I felt like for a long time there was so electronic and DJs and all that stuff, you know. Well, there's a giant country comeback that's going on right now, kind of nationwide. I'm sure you love Open the Gates, the Zac Bryan song. Yeah. That's such a great bull riding song. Man, they got some great tunes, man. Yeah. That's a great bull riding song. But there's so many great musicians out there now. and also have lived like different but very, like Charlie Crockett. What a fascinating dude that guy is. Like just kind of performing on the streets and, you know, just being kind of a vagabond traveling around and then finally catches and people are like, damn, this music is fucking great, man.

1:54:07Yeah, like wearing it on their sleeves, you know, and having the confidence to, I think people have always been, I think there has been plenty of folks out there, you know, writing from the heart and so to speak and all that. And, you know, having a certain integrity to the things that they're saying and, you know, the truth in their speaking into their songs and things like that. Yeah. There's just a there's a lot more of a platform to support them, you know, and people like, oh, wow, there's a there's a bunch of this stuff out there. There's also an appreciation for it because I think we're all fearful that people like you won't exist in the future.

1:54:43because it seems like a guy like you, you know, bull riding, living on a ranch, like singing songs in bars, like that almost is like a thing of the past. Oh, very much. But it's so romantic to people that like when we meet a guy like you in real life, you're like, oh, keep him around. You want to make sure that people like you still exist. It's a very exciting thing for people to have a person who's lived an authentically interesting life. and authentically out-of-the-box life. It's not a normal life. Like if you meet a million people, the odds of you meeting one guy who used to bull ride and then started singing in bars with his friends and was happy living on the road, and now all of a sudden he's on a fucking gigantic television show.

1:55:34It's not even one in a million. It's strange because sometimes I meet people And I, you know, I'm like, oh, yeah, I grew up just like you, you know. And then I realized, like, I don't think I did.

1:55:49I kind of had to think about it myself. I was like, oh, man, that was pretty fucked up. No, you definitely didn't. You rode a bull when you were fucking 10, dude, okay? Most people when they're 10, they're playing with G.I. Joes. Yeah. You know, they're not riding bulls. That's a very unusual setup for the rest of your life, you know. Yeah. I think if you do some things difficult when you're really young, you get accustomed to fear. You get accustomed to anxiety and nerves. And the thing that, I mean, that is like the mark of a man. Like a man is his ability to be in a very high stress situation and keep his shit together.

1:56:24And to have gone through a lot of that when you're very young, like riding a bull at 10 is crazy. To have gone through that when you're very young, it just develops the kind of character that allows you to kind of do anything in life. and I think most men see that and they wish they were like that I remember a moment you know it was really when I was you know riding steers and then I made that transition to the big bulls you know and it wasn't like oh here's this like this little steer and then there's an in-between and then there's the big it was like this little steer and then this big bull you know I went to it was a junior rodeo in Odessa Texas and it was my first year to ride junior bulls And I entered the bull ride, and my uncle was there with me, and they started running the bulls up into the chutes, and they were big.

1:57:15They were, like, backs that wide and horns sticking outside the chutes, you know. And they were big, but they didn't buck that hard, you know. They just kind of jumped, kicked down, but they were still big, you know. And, like, I remember, like, scared and, like, in tears, you know, kind of, I was scared. And my uncle, you know, was super cool about it. He wasn't like, you have to do this or you have to. He's like, man, whatever you want to do, you know, you want to pack it up? We'll get out of here right now. It's like this is either for you or it's not for you, you know. And I remember just him telling me, you want to take like 20, 30 minutes and just kind of think about it and whatever you want to do will make happen, you know.

1:57:53And I did. I kind of walked around there for a bit and I just had this some kind of like, I knew I would regret it if I didn't do it, didn't try it. You know, there was something in me. We were like, man, because I slept it. I dreamt about it. You know, I just, I loved it. And I was like, nah, I'm going to do this, you know? And I put my rope on him and had all the sport there that I needed in that moment. And they opened the gate, and this big old high horn bull, you know, he just turned and kind of jumped out there, real docile. And I think I rode him two or three jumps and fell off, and it was just like, I'm the king of the world.

1:58:29Yeah. I was like, I'm a bull rider now, you know? Just the steer rider kid, you know. Wow. I kind of made that level. And I remember after that, I just, man, I just craved it. Like, just the higher they jump, the faster they spin, the better I like it. Really? Oh, just, yeah, just dirty rank. Just run them in there. Let's go. And when I was little, I mean, even when I was, like, 14 or 15, you know, the guys were starting to breed the bulls for, like, the PBR. Like, they full-on started these, like, breeding programs, you know. You know, you could go to a practice pen and, you know, be an old farmer that had two or three old bulls that you could get on and practice.

1:59:09And they'd just jump around and just, you know, nothing was really going to hurt you bad, you know. And then they started breeding these young bulls. And, man, you'd go to the practice pen, there'd be 10 or 15 of these, like, yearlings that bucked. And they needed somebody to get on them, you know, like test pilot. And I was the test pilot. There was a guy named Bradley Raspberry, I believe, kind of out in Brownwood. I remember going to his house, and I could ride. I was pretty sticky. I could ride a lot better when I was younger than I was when I got older, you know, for some reason. I just had that no fear or whatever that was.

1:59:44And I'd get on 10 or 15 a day. They just kept running on them in there, man. They'd be trying to flip over in the chute and just, you know, they're young green bulls that were half wild. And they're just trying to figure out which ones bucked and which ones didn't. and they would get rid of the ones that didn't buck and keep the ones that did. Man, I'd just be like, the wilder they got in the shoot, the more aggressive I got. I was like, okay, that's what we're going to do. Come on, let's go. Let's do this. I don't know why I was nuts. God, that's so crazy. That's such a crazy way to live your life.

2:00:22You know, wild bulls, you say wild, like the ones that are out there in the wild, they're some of the most dangerous animals that you could ever encounter. when they're like they call them scrub bulls like my buddy um adam he lives in australia or he's moving to america but yeah when he lived in uh australia he he said that they would encounter these scrub bulls which is like wild domestic bulls that got out and started breeding and then they many generations later they're now completely wild they're like deer out there yeah and they will run after you i know these three guys from australia that uh or several australian guys as it came over, lived in Stephenville.

2:01:00A lot of these cowboys have moved to Stephenville because it was so central. It was kind of cowboy capital there. His name was Lance Kelly. He had some brothers. They were from up there in North Queensland somewhere. One summer, he went back to work. Then when he came back, he'd tell me about where he was from all the time. I was young, curious. I was always fascinated. I was like, wow, you're from Australia? I've only seen movies.

2:01:26What's the... Oh, gosh. I said my mind's thinking. Crocodile Dundee? No, a man from Snowy River, which was anyway. But I was fascinated with Australia and him and his brothers. And so he went home and he videotaped a VHS. You know, he didn't have phones back then, but it was like the old cam VHS tape recorder. And he'd duct taped it around his body while he was walking around working on the ranch. And he'd have his four-wheeler in there chasing these wild cattle and rounding them up, him and his brother. brothers and he would just like chase them on a four-wheeler as long as you know keep them running until they got so tired they couldn't go anymore and then he had this piece of pipe on there he could run up behind him and kind of knock them down and then he'd jump off and tie their legs together and they would catch a bunch of them like that and then his brother would come by you know later with a truck and a winch and winch them up into the trailer and they would catch all these wild cows like that and to be able to see that footage and stuff and have him tell me how they were doing it and show them and I I was like, oh, that's the coolest thing in the world.

2:02:28When can I go? Australia is such a crazy place, man. I mean, it's bigger than the United States or the size of the United States roughly. And it has less people than Los Angeles. And everything will kill you over there. Everything will kill you. Every snake, spider. Every snake, crocodiles. They have saltwater crocodiles and giant fucking great white sharks. and hearty people, man. Hearty motherfuckers come from that place. I feel like Texas and a lot of folks in Australia are a bit kindred spirits. Yes, I think so too. My buddy James McCann was on the podcast yesterday. He's a comic out of Australia.

2:03:09And he's from there and he spends time here. He was living here for a while, but he had to move back because he had another kid. But now he's coming back and forth and trying to figure. He's really talented. Coming to Austin? Yeah, he was living in Austin for a couple years and living in America for a couple years living in Austin for about a year But you know his wife's about to have another kid and they just decided to go back to Australia where she's got support But man he fucking misses it. He was here. He's like mate. I miss it so much. Yeah, I miss it so much like I Think there's any place like this place.

2:03:42Mm-hmm It's pretty awesome, but Australia. It's like it's the same kind of thing It's like it's a rugged place and the kind of people that live there, they're fun. They're fun, kind of got a super fucked up oppressive government, unfortunately. I think it's a lot about what you say, too. You know, when you survive certain things in your life and... And, you know, it puts things in perspective of what you're taking seriously anymore. What's an emergency? Right. Oh, is this life or death or is it not? And to be able to laugh at stuff. I love comedians. It's just like, man, to be able to just joke and cut stuff about the most serious things or whatever it is.

2:04:27It's like, God, we need that so much. It's an important service. It doesn't seem like it is to people because it seems stupid. They're like, oh, you're just telling jokes. For me, when I go and watch a good comedy show, I feel better. It's medicine. And I think it also puts life into perspective. With a sense of humor, you can kind of look at things through a different lens and go, yeah, we're probably going to be all right. I get a feeling like, you know, I think a lot of folks have this idea that songwriters are aware, you know, have a bunch of sad songs or whatever to go to that deep place and you live through stuff that you write about.

2:05:02But, man, I find in comics, man, I feel like there's some of the heaviest stuff in the world that those folks have experienced to be able to, you know, come up and tell these kinds of jokes and stories and the educational part of it with it. You know, it's so much. I don't know. For me, it seems like so much more than just a joke. It is with some. I mean, some people just do jokes. It really depends on your style. But, I mean, if you go back to, like, Richard Pryor, his whole thing was, like, explaining life and telling stories. Yeah, but with an amazing sense of humor and that you would leave that and you know Everybody feels like more united.

2:05:39They feel better. Yeah, just like you like what everybody was thinking afraid to say and also he would look at things from a very wise perspective That was also hilarious. So you walked out of there feeling better. Yeah, you felt like you were better. It felt like there's Bringing some hope yeah, yeah, there's hope in humor. Yeah for sure But there's hope in music, too. Yeah. You know, I don't have any musical talent at all, but I always think of music as almost like a drug. Because music, when a good song hits, you're like, fuck. Like, if you're in the car and a good tune comes on, like, especially back when I used to listen to the radio, you know, and, like, you didn't expect what was coming on.

2:06:21You can't rewind it. Yeah. All of a sudden it's Radar Love by Golden Earring. Oh, yeah. Fuck yeah. Let's go. Yeah. Like, you feel different. It, like, changes your mood. Like you hear like Freebird, like you're flipping through the channels and the fucking guitar solo for Freebird comes on. You're like, yes! You feel better. Like it excites all these parts of your senses, your consciousness, your feelings. It's a drug. I mean, it's an amazing thing. It's always been real therapeutic for me at the very beginning. Like I said, I didn't have high expectations, but I knew when I kind of wrote some of the first songs that I wrote.

2:07:00and I got some of that stuff off my chest, it changed me. Yeah? It became a tool that all of a sudden I had access to this thing that was helping me heal in a way. I could get stuff off my chest. The things that I was uncomfortable talking about in conversation with folks, I could put them into a song and sing them to the wall. And I was just getting that stuff out. There wasn't anybody in the room. I was just like, you know, but I was getting this stuff out of me, you know. And it's also a way for people to hear it where it's not annoying. You know what I mean? Like if you just tell some sad story about your life, people are like, oh, geez.

2:07:40You're like, here we go. Cry me a river, kid. Everybody's got a story. But if you have a sad story in a song, it's like fucking, it's beautiful. Like I love a good sad song. You know, a song that has, like, real emotion in it, whether it's a real story or whether, like, one of my favorite Coulter Wall songs is Kate McKinnon. Yeah. Jamie turned me on to that song. He said it to me. Man, Coulter's a gem. He was fucking 21 when he made that song, which is crazy. Yeah. You listen to that song, that sounds like a 58-year-old man who's been smoking cigarettes his whole life. Yeah. And that dude is interesting, too, because he still works on a ranch.

2:08:23Yeah. Yeah. He's a great guy. He's one of my favorites of the younger guys that have come up and been doing this. He's just, same way when I first heard those first songs, I was like, who the fuck is this? You know? Then I saw like a picture of him. I'm like, oh man, he's a kid, you know? Crazy. And just a fabulous songwriter, guitar player. Raven is a wicked bird. You hear that, you're like, what is this? Yeah. Who is this guy? And I couldn't believe he was 21. I'm like that makes zero sense. Yeah He's got it though, man, and there's a bunch of them out there now that I'm hearing to there's just like I'm like man How cool yeah, how cool?

2:09:06I'm so glad that they're getting a shot at it or just getting the support I don't know if it's saying getting a shot at it But it's like getting the love and support that they deserve for the it's good music man. Yeah, it's great It's great music and there's a thing now with the internet where it's so easy to share something you know like someone's got a good song and it's on youtube or spotify and then you just send a link to your buddy yeah you go bro check this out like i gotta say like half the songs i find out about my friends just send me and then all of a sudden i'm like oh shit yeah and then i'll add it to my playlist you know it's like it's easy to share things now where you don't have to go to the record store and pick up the record and you know now it's just like within seconds of you getting it in your phone you're listening to it and it's easier to record the stuff too you know it's like you don't need a half a million bucks in a studio and all that stuff it's like man half the stuff you can record on your phone look at oliver anthony yeah one fucking song yeah one song and the first show he ever does is like 18 000 people that is the first show that dude ever performed yeah i feel for him i would never have been able to do that when i started you know I was not prepared for anything.

2:10:21I don't know. Maybe they're not. But that's a lot to carry. He settled in there. He settled in pretty easy. He figured it out. He's a smart cat. He's a really smart dude. And he settled in really easy. I guess they have to. I always think, gosh, it's changed so much since I started out. I mean, we didn't even have, like, if you wanted to learn how to play a song, you kind of had to go listen to the record and just try to figure it out. Rewind it. And now they're like, oh, here's a guy that'll just show you every note and this and that. Yeah, there's a guy on YouTube that'll show you exactly where to place your fingers.

2:10:54Exactly how to do it. Yeah. And that took me years to figure out, you know. And, you know, maybe that is like today, you know, these guys, they're learning how to do it at such a quicker rate. And, like, they know how to handle the crowds and do all the stuff. And it's just like, boom, there you go. Well, that's with everything today. Yeah. You know, I think that's also why, like, I mean, in martial arts and, like, UFC, there's a reason why the guys are so much better today, and it's because they get to see everything that everybody's ever done, and then they practice it and improve upon it, and they get it at a early age.

2:11:27You can essentially just on your phone watch every fight that's ever taken place ever in human history that's been recorded. I did that on the road a few years ago. I mean, I've always been a pretty rudimentary guitar player. You know, I can't solo all over the place and all of that stuff. And I think it was like 2019. I put out a record and I was going on a tour. And my friend Charlie Sexton produced the album. He's a wonderful guitar player. Charlie Sexton, the guy from the 80s? From Austin, yeah. That guy? Played with Dylan, played Archangel. He was like really young when Beat So Lonely came out, right?

2:12:03Oh, man. Yeah, legend. And I remember calling him, though. I was like, man, I really want to get better at the guitar. you know and he's like well just listen to all the stuff that you really like you know he's like don't try to play it all note for note he's like just keep listening to it and like you'll start eventually finding those places and develop your style and but it was it when i got on the road as well man i had access on youtube right all of my favorite musicians and guitar players and i just kind of made a point of sitting down and i even found this guy that was just breaking down and giving simple blues guitar lessons for kids.

2:12:37And I was like, man, this is great. Never done anything like this. And just like went through, I went back, you know. Right. I got to memorize all the notes on the fretboard. And I needed, you know, and it was just, I had so much fun doing it. And, you know, and also give confidence to get up and jam with other musicians and play and kind of know what key you're in, what you're doing. And, you know, I went years, you know, without having any kind of lessons or training. And then I'm just like within three weeks of being on tour and watching YouTube videos of it, just stepped it up so much. Like, how'd you learn how to do it?

2:13:10I was just about 20 years later in my career, I decided to learn how to play the guitar on YouTube. It is amazing. I mean, that's the positive part of the Internet. You know, if you can avoid the negative parts, there's a lot of great positive stuff in the Internet. And the access to stuff like that is amazing. Yeah, if we all could just avoid the negative of everything, right? Right. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people that don't have good lives and they do have a lot of extra time because they're not really investing in their own life So they just spread the negativity online. Yeah, and it's just human nature Wild world it is it's a wild world, but it's also a wildly positive world to just what you just said about the guitar stuff Mm-hmm or with the Oliver Anthony stuff.

2:13:52Yeah, this guy standing there with a guitar in front of a field with no production value at all but has a song that he's singing from the heart like how many views does that shit have on YouTube? It's gotta be like 100 million views or something nuts I mean that song was fucking gigantic Rich Men North I remember my wife playing it for me for the first time I was like what is that? She's like oh man check this out you know like that's so rad yeah i got a chance to see him perform live too with his band they're fantastic and he's settled he's completely settled into being famous now he's he's full he's cool with it yeah he's still the same dude i met him real early on and i actually talked to him on the phone how much was the guy that 236 million holy shit wow when you say like he's settled I didn't know.

2:14:49Was he having a hard time with it? He was freaking out at the beginning. And I contacted him early on, and he said, Hey, can I ask you some advice? And we talked on the phone. I said, Yeah, sure. So I called him up, and he was just telling me that he was getting hit up by all these different people that were trying to give him money to sign a contract. And then I go, Hey, hey, hey, don't sign nothing. I go, You don't need nobody. You don't need to be locked up in any contracts with nobody. And he was like, They're all telling me I got a strike while the iron's hot. I'm like, Fuck them. I go you got talent dude.

2:15:19Yeah talent is the number one thing you already have that you're gonna be fine You just keep making songs like that You can't fucking lose But what you don't want to do is be tied with some legal contract to some assholes just Sucking you like a vampire yeah, and they're gonna be stuck with you for years And then you're gonna have to go to court to get out of that Exactly yeah, whatever the opportunity like like said you just man you're writing good songs as you're doing good stuff and you have a way to give it to the people. But he's getting an offer for like$7 million to sign this. I'm like, don't do it.

2:15:52I know it sounds like, but that$7 million, they're giving you that because they're going to make$14 million. There's not a chance in hell. You don't need them. You don't need them. You should get all the money. You should get all. You shouldn't give any money to anybody else. You don't need it. You can make your own records. You can put it all together yourself. You don't need nobody. I guess you always got to remember, they're going to buy for one, sell for two, someone Exactly it's there's no way they're gonna give you that money unless they're gonna make a lot more and then you're gonna get stuck with them Don't do it.

2:16:22And he's like they're all telling me. I gotta do it now. He's my miss this opportunity I'm like you ain't missing shit. Yeah, you're a miss There's not a chance you're gonna miss it especially when you're that young. Yeah, and good. Yeah, and just fucking good Who knows what they're gonna be, you know, be right in the next 10 years. Yeah. Have you heard that song woman scorned? I haven't No. Is that one of his new ones? Woo! Yeah. He wrote that one after a breakup, and it's just woo! You hear that, fucker. It just gets you right in the bone marrow. Yeah, I get you. Yeah, it's fantastic. It's so good.

2:16:55But it's just like, you know, it's a beautiful story. And I love a story like that. He was selling heavy equipment. He was a salesman, just fucking machinery and shit. and then writing songs and he gets fed up one day and he puts this song let's make a video of this fucking song yeah and then all of a sudden boom man people ask me all the time they're like man who do you think's you know the best young songwriter out there you know musician or guitar player i'm like man i don't know it's probably some 16 year old kid in the garage that nobody's heard of that's probably the best guy out there you know he's ready to jump off Yeah, I'm going to get you with some song that just crushes you.

2:17:37Yeah. They're out there. But that's the thing that I was saying about guys like you, that people look at guys like you, and it's such a romantic story. They worry that there's not going to be any more of you. You know what I mean? like this weird digital world and ai and just this strange fucking life that we're all living like now that are not i want to say simple because it's not simple but it's unencumbered by all the of the world that we think is fake and unfortunate yeah like to have this pure life and this wild romantic story when people meet a guy like you they're like oh man there probably ain't going to be many more of them.

2:18:21I don't know, man. I mean, look at this guy, you know. Yeah. The guys that are kind of – I feel so fortunate too. Like when I did come to Austin like in my, you know, mid-20s, you know, I met guys like Joe Ely and Terry Allen and Guy Clark and like these little Steve Earle legendary kind of guys that I looked up to. And I remember being young then and being like, oh, man, you know, these are the last guys left, you know. And so, you know, I don't know. There's so many of these young folks out there that I think crave it, and that's what they're interested in. They want to play that music. They want to feel that stuff.

2:19:01So I'm optimistic about it, but I can – it definitely is a different world out there these days. And even for myself, you know, just going with the flow and like, well, where are we going tomorrow? I have no idea how so much of this social media stuff is working and how you put out an album or songs. Don't worry about all that jazz. Just keep writing. Just keep writing, keep making it, and just performing it. Just be undeniable. And at the end of the day, if all of that stuff disappears, you can always go sit on the sidewalk and put your tip jar out there and play a song for people who are walking down the street, and I guarantee you there's going to be somebody that's going to stop and appreciate it.

2:19:45Well, that's what got Charlie Crockett started out. Yeah. I've had plenty of gigs where you go into some bar and my wife always says, go where you're celebrated, not where you're tolerated. You go into some bar and you can tell they're not excited about you playing or whatever. They're like, yeah, shit, I'll just go park in the parking lot across the street and sit on the tailgate of my truck and play and we'll have a party over there. Yeah. That is the crazy thing about music. You can just kind of set up anywhere. You don't need all that. You don't need all that. Sign contracts and deals. It's like, man, you got that guitar in your hand.

2:20:21You got your song. Hold on to it. And protect it. That's something that's special to you. I think when I talk about the therapy of songwriting, I hold on and protect that ruthlessly. I'm not just giving that away. And that part of it's way more important than selling an album or a concert ticket or going on the road touring and all that. What I get out of music is when I'm sitting at home in a room all by myself and letting that stuff pour out of me. And I'm just singing it to the wall. That's what's saved my life. That's awesome. And any of the rest of it. I'm glad that you articulated it that way too because I think there's young aspiring songwriters and singers out there that are listening to this right now that are feeling this and they just can't wait to get to a pad right now and start writing pick up their guitar and start writing because it's like stories like yours and the way you express it it inspires people to get excited about it inspires people to really dig in I hope so I definitely had folks that mentored me like that and you know steered me in the right direction in a lot of ways uh terry allen the guy definitely i'm just like man just keep writing keep you know and whatever it whatever that's making you want to do that in the first place you know like that like hold on to that you know and protect it and and the rest will all be always be around and always come and it'll change and a good song will survive and find its way just like the guy you know that song you display me like you said 200 million people and it just they'll find its way you know yeah find it find it find its way into people's hearts you know yeah and like i said it's just it's important for people like you to tell your story it really is thank you it's it's fuel for people thanks thank you for being here i really appreciate it it was a lot of fun i really enjoyed it uh and uh tell everybody they want to find you performing anywhere where they can catch you is you got a website that shows where you're going to be at it all over the interwebs yeah it's all out there is it do you have your own personal website i do it's probably uh just ryan bingham.com or bingham music.com something like that all the dates are up there yeah do you use social media at all yeah we're on all this i mean all do you pay attention to it or you got somebody who does it for you both yeah we both yeah like mostly like on instagram i pay attention to that one you know and check in and stuff like that there's so much of it these days it's like i can't keep up yeah all of it you know it'll rob your time yeah i'm trying i'm trying to go get away where all that stuff's turned off that's where i'm gonna find me beautiful all right thanks brother appreciate it a lot of fun thank you i appreciate it bye everybody