#2499 - Marcus King

32:42It's a medication. People vary biologically. Can cause vision. Permanent blindness. Yeah. In one eye. Oh, well, you know, you got your other guy and now you got a six pack. Eye stroke. Eye stroke. Oh, boy. Wow. Ooh. Non-artritic interior ischemic optic neuropathy. I don't think I said that right. Sudden painless and often permanent blindness in one eye. Wow. That sounds like a punk band. It does. Side effects. Acute pancreatitis. That's what Brian got. Gallbladder problems. Gastroparesis. Stomach paralysis. Bowel obstructions. And potential thyroid tumors. Hmm. Mild GI issues are common. These severe complications require immediate medical attention, often occurring more frequently at higher doses.

33:42Yeah, that's what they're saying. It's apparently when you're getting it from a pharmaceutical drug company, you're getting it. This is the argument for compounding pharmacies, apparently. And then there's a new one that's coming out. What is it called? Retuitide? Retitutide. Retitutide. And this one is supposed to be better because it doesn't cause muscle loss. and it doesn't cause bone density loss and it's supposed to be more effective

34:13huh investigational i mean i don't know i just typed in reddit true time but what's telling me isn't that a weird word investigational once weekly injectable triple agonist medication targeting glp1 gip and glucogen receptors developed by eli lily showing unprecedented weight loss results of up to 24 % in phase two trials. They say that this is going to be a trillion dollar medication.

34:41Or have some fucking discipline. Yeah. Go to the gym. Eat better. Be healthy. Do what Jelly Roll did. Yeah. You know, Jelly Roll was at the club last night. He's down 300 pounds. That's fucking nuts. He runs like five miles a day. He works out every day. He looks fantastic. He looks like a different person. It's like I knew him when he was like 500 pounds, and now I know him when he's in the twos. It's like he's a different human. He looks different. I know it's still Jelly Roll, but it looks like a completely different man. It's nuts. I remember when we did – I was in the house band for Kill Tony at the Garden, and Jelly came out and did New York, New York.

35:22Yeah, I was there. That's got to be a custom suit. I was like, that's a big suit. Yeah. And then the next time I saw him, he was like he is now. And I mean, hell, like what I did, because I have an appetite, you know. Like what I do now, like I'm basically doing like a keto diet because I like to eat a lot of whatever it is. Me too. So if it's like a big salad, you know, or whatever. But I'm down like 25 pounds doing that. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Are you doing this with the help of a nutritionist? Are you just doing it on your own? Just doing it on my own. Yeah. Yeah. You're laughing. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, it's just I've tried a few different routes, man.

36:03I've been, you know, husky since I was a kid and shopping in the husky department at Kmart, you know. Is this, do you think it's a genetic thing? Do you think it's the way you ate as a child? What do you think? I think psychological, a lot of it. It was like the only thing I had control of as a child is like food. It was like, and a scarcity mindset as well. Just like the way that I, you know, think about food is just, you know, probably not the healthiest. So for me, it's just easier to say, like, I don't eat these things. Because, like, if I eat bread or something like that, it just hurts my stomach now, you know.

36:44And I just, I can feel, like, the difference when I don't eat it, you know. I just feel better. I have more energy. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And once you get your body working on ketones, too, the thing is you just your brain functions better. That's one of the more interesting things. This is why people take things like like ketone. What is it? Ketone IQ. That stuff's great. Like you just down one of those little shots and it puts you into ketosis temporarily. Oh, really? Yeah. They're exogenous ketones. I think the guy who just invented those just died. he was also a guy that worked for Balco Labs he developed the clear that shit that Barry Bonds took so this guy was a chemist he was a scientist I think someone oh I think Chris Bell Chris Bell or Mark I think it was Mark Bell just posted about it on his Instagram page that this guy just died this guy was like one of America's great chemists and he developed a lot of these things including exogenous ketones according to Mark but um that's one of the things that i noticed when i went into when i did the carnivore diet is that immediately my brain just started functioning better which is what i try to eat most of the time like this morning i ate um sausage and eggs and sausage from an animal that i shot i like to do that i eat like uh i had sable this is the guy so this is mark's instagram The greatest chemist of our time and possibly any other, Patrick Arnold, is dead.

38:19Patrick Arnold is the guy who made the cream and the clear for the Bonds and McGuire. All that Bonds and McGuire blasted home runs off of, supposedly. In addition to those incredible inventions, he also brought exogenous ketones to the market. What happened to that guy? How did he die? That's an interesting picture to put up. Yeah. Looks like Oswald looking at Jack Ruby. He looks healthy. I want to know how he died. I wonder how old that picture was.

38:53Organic chemists. Androstenedione, too. Oh, he had all those pro hormones or whatever those things were that people were taking that weren't totally steroids but they were kind of steroid-like. How did he die? Does it say? It's a weird website, too. Uh, he died at 60.

39:22Hmm. Maybe he's experimenting on himself. Why don't you just put in cause of death? I know, it should come up. You would think a guy who's working on, like, performance and fitness. Does it say? No.

39:49When you click on what happened Oh to David Arnold Oh Patrick Arnold So it just doesn't say how he died Nope and it just happened Oh okay so it hasn't been released yet

40:05Made a lot of roids You gotta wonder The dude is like doing so much work In anabolic steroids He worked for Balco they were the ones that were making undetectable steroids. Do you know about that whole story? This is back in the, was it in the 90s, Jamie? The Maguire. It was around 2000. So they developed steroids that were undetectable. So when they would test for steroids, what they would do is they would take, because I guess the way it works is when they're doing a steroid test, they're looking for very specific molecules. So they invented a molecule that had like additional things attached to it where it wouldn't show up.

40:46I'm probably butchering that. But essentially there were undetectable steroids. One of them was called the clear. And the guy who ran the lab was called Balco Laboratories. It was this guy, Victor Conti, who eventually went to jail for that. And then when he – I don't know why he went to jail. But he got out and then became an anti-steroid sort of activist. and he was, I don't want to say activist, but he was essentially, he was ratting people out and saying that this guy's probably doing steroids and this is how he's doing it. And then a lot of athletes were using his company to use steroid-free performance-enhancing supplements that were legal.

41:25So he would show you what's legal and how to do it. He knew a lot about it because he did the illegal stuff too. Interesting. Yeah. I've gotten a couple steroid shots like before a show like if my voice goes out like what kind is it like a cortisone or I guess that's what it is it's like that one that they shoot in your ass cheek hmm what does that do like for your voice when your voice goes yeah it just brings you back man it's gotta be rough when a fucking singer loses their voice yeah I mean people have asked me before like what my warm up routine is and like I've never had one and I really a few cigarettes A couple cigarettes.

42:03It used to be a shot of whiskey. If I was really in dire straits, I would take like a handful of sugar-free gummy bears and put boiling water on that. Really? And then the gummy bears would like coat my throat. Huh. Like honey, ginger, lemon. Yeah. Hot water and lemon is a really good one. There's something about that that eases. Really? It's like time off is what fucks my voice up more than anything. Time off? Yeah. Really? Oh, so like your vocal cords get out of shape. Mm-hmm. Interesting. Because it's hard to like keep them up, you know? Right. Unless you're like going in your garage and screaming for two hours a night, you know?

42:41That's crazy. I never thought about it like that. Like your vocal cords are essentially a muscle like any other and they develop over time and you get endurance. That makes sense. Yeah, so the pandemic was the first time that a lot of us had any extended amount of time off from the road. And we all started noticing, or at least me, I came back hurting a little bit. Oh, that makes sense. I saw Guns N' Roses in Athens, Greece. And Axl Rose has that crazy singing style. Yeah. It's like a, like, and that has to be fucking hell on your voice. And, you know, the show was amazing, but his voice is not the same.

43:27It's just, there's no way it can be. I know Steven Tyler, like, he's back. Is he? Yeah. So he quit for a while because he was like, I can't sing. And then he healed up and now he's back again? I don't know exactly what he did, but I played with him back in January. and like the boys back. No shit, that's fucking great. Singing his ass off. That's fucking great. I love to hear that. I saw The Stones a couple years ago at Circuit of the Americas and Mick Jagger can still wail. He can still wail. That was a great fucking show. Almost surreal. He's got a lot of energy too, man. So much energy. It's crazy.

44:10He has two trailer trucks that he brings with him that are just gym equipment. Wow. Everywhere they go. Two big-ass trailer trucks just filled with gym equipment. They say he works out seven days a week. That's awesome. And he's 180 ,000 years old. He's still up there. And then Keith Richards, opposite approach. Whiskey, cocaine, LSD. No problems. Still there, too. So it's like find something you love and stick with it. I know. It's so funny. It makes me think. We went out with Willie a few times. and Willie's got like, like most artists, he's got like 18 tractor trailers back there. But like, I don't know if you've been to a Willie Nelson show recently.

44:53It's like, there's nothing on the stage. I'm like, what's in all these fucking trucks? I never really got to the bottom of that. But there's like seven or eight truck drivers back there. It's all weed. It must be all weed or something. You go in, there's all grow lights and plants and shit. He's got that drink that they sell. Oh, yeah. He's got that weed drink. Well, there's remedy. Yeah. And Ron White brought some to the green room of the comedy mothership. And someone was saying, oh, you can't get it. That's not real. I'm like, it's real as fuck, dude. That stuff's very legit. It's real. Yeah.

45:27It's very. I don't know what the rules are. The laws are. It's starting to become like a gray area. It should be. I mean, they just made it schedule three. Okay. So what that means is, and I mean, it's a great step in the right direction. I'm very happy that the president did that. It really should be regulated the same way alcohol is. It should be for adult use, 21 and older. It shouldn't be maybe, I wonder what the issue, well, I'm sure there's a bunch of issues, right? There's like lobbies that are trying to keep it illegal. Like there's the alcohol lobby that doesn't want it legal because it cuts down on alcohol sales.

46:06And I know they lobby to try to make sure those laws stay in place. And then, unfortunately, you have prison guard unions that lobby for it, which is fucked. They want to keep their job. And so the way they keep their job is to keep people locked up. And the way they keep people locked up is keep laws that don't make sense. It's fucked up. Fucked up. That's an evil fucking—it just doesn't make any sense. If you can buy alcohol, you should be able— I'm not saying you should drink alcohol. You don't drink alcohol anymore. Like I said, I took months off. It's like you should have some self-control.

46:44And I know some people don't. But get your shit together. But other people are fine with alcohol. They go to the bar, have a drink or two, go home, go out to dinner, have a drink, go at home, have a drink while they're watching TV. And they're fine. It should be a personal choice. No adult should be able to tell you what you can and can't do and be able to lock you up in a fucking cage if you don't listen. That's nuts. And in a free country, and this country is as free as it gets in this world, there's no way weed should be illegal. It should be regulated and it should be only for people that are adults where you have to be 21 to be able to buy it.

47:23Look, let's never stop kids from getting alcohol. They still get alcohol. It's not stopping kids right now from getting weed. They can still get weed. But if it was legal and regulated, first of all, we'd get taxes from it. And that would be huge for every state. You'd get a ton of tax money that you're not getting right now. And also you would keep people from getting locked up for their own personal choices, which is just insane. Yeah. I mean, not a lot of people get locked up for personal use these days. That's pretty rare. But there's still, there's just way too many laws. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting, too.

47:59Like, if you have, like, CBD flour, technically that's legal. Yes. So like if you just put some of your cannabis in a CBD container, like are there ways to like test that on the side of the road? Like if you get pulled and they search your car? Not on the side of the road, but they could confiscate it and then test it, I think. But there's weird things about like legalization of I was watching a YouTube video about what Texas's laws were. And Texas's laws are the amount of THC by volume. so the thing about that is if you get like gummies like a 10 milligram gummy will pass that by volume and be legal so are you saying that people can take 10 milligram THC gummies and that's legal because they'll fuck you up like if you don't smoke weed a 10 milligram THC gummy will have you going take two of those and who knows what's going to happen to you.

49:05I just watched this movie that a friend of mine was in this movie, Lainey Wilson, and we watched the movie, and I don't want to spoil the movie for anybody, but it turns out that the girl, like, she went to jail because she was impaired while driving, and she was impaired by weed gummies. And I was like, that's kind of okay. Well, it depends on how much you took. Yeah, but... If you take 200 milligrams to get behind a wheel, you're not even exactly sure what the road is. 200 milligrams is a lot, yeah. Right? So that's pretty impaired. That's equivalent to like eight shots of whiskey and then getting in your truck.

49:42Yeah. Right? You're impaired. I guess you're right. I don't think you should drive on weed. I don't. I definitely don't think you should drive fucked up. But it's like the same. Like, I don't advocate drinking and driving either. But if you have like one drink and drive, like you're going to feel like a little relaxed and lubricated. But I don't know how much you'll be. And it also varies on who the person is. If the person is used to drinking all the time, one drink is not going to do a damn thing to them. But for some people, one drink will make you drive stupid. You'll do stupid things. Yeah.

50:18It's all a personal responsibility thing. that's the bottom line about all of it and yeah you shouldn't be out there drinking and driving you shouldn't be out there eating 500 milligram edibles and fucking driving in a car no no i remember one time my drummer had this like thc spray have you ever fucked with that oh yeah we had that back in california yeah like breath spray yeah and i was i was still drinking at the time and me and my wife were both just hammered and we were on this uh a ferry like the tour bus goes on to the ferry and the ferry carries you over from France to the UK. And we were like sitting in the lounge area on the ferry, or lounge area on the ferry, rather.

51:01And he had this spray and I was like, it's not doing anything. Oh, no. Me and my wife both kept just spraying it. No. And I woke up in my bed just like in a cartoon, just like completely removed from reality. They just, and yeah, it was a bad, bad scene. I remember one time I took a, they had these THC breath strips that they used to sell. And the problem with these things, and this is back in the pre-legalization days of pre-2016 in California. And so each store you would get weed at, like they would have medical stores. So you could go to a doctor and say, hey, doc, I got a headache. And they go, you need medicine.

51:45and they would write your prescription and then you can go. And like there's always reasons to have it, just like there's reasons to have Tylenol. Do you get a headache? Yeah, well, then you need it. Do you have a backache? Yeah, well, then you need it. So you could get it pretty easy. And they had these breast strips and I took one and I got on a plane. And I closed my eyes when I was lying on the plane and I was watching neon, like cartoon characters that are made out of neon light and they were having sex. It was an orgy of car and I was just lying there with my eyes closed watching these cartoon neon characters fuck And they were fucking in like complete blackness like void So it was just the colors of their weird bodies just banging each other and then they would shift shapes and another one will pile on They were I was like this is crazy.

52:34It was very psychedelic It was almost like but when I'd open my eyes the world was normal Yeah, it wasn't like I was the world was wiggling and and I'll just sit I didn't have anything to do. I was flying all the way to New York. It was a six-hour flight. By the time it landed, I had sobered up. But I was like, this is great. How much is in these fucking things? Because they're not making them in the same labs where they're making fucking Tylenol. Sure. I mean, it's some hippie. Some dude who's pouring weed into a machine and can't remember whether or not he put weed in there because he's high as fuck.

53:04So he adds double. They're very inconsistent. It's like the micro doses that I used to get in Macon, Georgia. I was like, some of these are stronger than other ones. And he's like, yeah. So depending on the day, my boy Hubble's like, you know, he's going to ride it for whatever it is. Well, that's why we need legalization regulation. That's the beautiful thing about whiskey. You get a glass of whiskey, you get a shot, you know exactly what that shot's going to do. Shots of whiskey have been having the same impact on human beings for hundreds of fucking years. You can quantify it. Yeah, and that's how it should be with all these things.

53:39But the problem is when they're outlawed, you know, some of them are, you know, a glass of wine. Some of them are fucking moonshine. Like you need regulation. And it's the idea that there's laws against people's personal choices. Just fucking stupid, man. There's plenty of laws that are good. Don't murder people. Don't rob. Don't rape. Don't do this. Don't do that. That's great. Don't vandalize. Great. Great laws. Makes sense. Better society. Laws on personal choices, especially things that you might enjoy, like having a joint with your wife after dinner and just sitting there and watching Netflix together.

54:17Like the fucking armed thugs can burst into your house and take the joint away from you. Like who are we protecting? Who are we serving? Who are we protecting and serving with that? That's dumb. It's just bad for society. and it creates this business. Once a business is established, the business of enforcement, once that business is established, that business doesn't want to go away because now you have a bunch of people whose jobs depend on enforcing laws and enforcing these things that don't make any sense. And they want to protect that because that's their livelihood. So now you've got a quagmire.

54:51Now you're in a fucking terrible situation. There's no easy way out other than ripping the bandaid off and making it legal. You're also propping up the cartels. That's the other problem with it being completely illegal in this country federally is like well guess what it's there's still a demand for it so legal companies that actually employ people and give the employees health care and you know have rules and regulations now they're not making it so they're not growing it so instead you have fucking cartels that are growing it in California on public land because if you get caught it's just a misdemeanor because it's legal in California.

55:29So literally, I think it's more than 80 % of all the weed that's sold in the United States that's illegal is grown in California on public lands by the cartel. And they use toxic pesticides and herbicides. They use all kinds of shit that you're not allowed to use in normal farming. And the only reason why it exists is because we've made these stupid fucking laws. So now that it's schedule three, it's in the same category as like Tylenol with codeine, which is not bad. It's better, certainly better than schedule one, which is ridiculous. So now, hopefully, once they do more testing and more studies, they can get to a point where federally it's legal and regulated.

56:18That would be the best case for everybody. Just in the same category as alcohol. get all that tax money from it and then don't make criminals out of american citizens that just want to make personal choices this episode is brought to you by on x off-road ever wonder how to reach these epic mountain lakes they're tucked away dispersed campsites with on x off-road you'll find legal open trails around you and even better guided trails mapped by real off-roaders each one includes photos, terrain descriptions, and difficulty ratings so you'll know if your vehicle is capable before you go. Unlike other apps, OnX gives you turn-by-turn directions on the trail and their new dispersed camping layer shows where you can legally set up camp.

57:04You'll also get private land boundaries, public land overlays, and the ability to download maps for offline use so that you're never guessing even when you're off the grid. It's a powerful tool built for serious off-roaders. Try OnX Off-Road for 50 % off. Go to onxmaps.com slash Joe Rogan. When did it get scheduled as Schedule 1? Well, the whole Schedule 1 thing, this is what I talked about when I went to the White House recently, which is a hilarious thing to say for a retard like me. I helped get things scheduled. I mean when it all goes down in the history books, they attach my name to this.

57:51It's gonna be really confusing. They're gonna be like, fucking that guy? What? How? What the fuck happened? So when in 1970, the Richard Nixon administration passed the Controlled Substances Act and it It made DMT, psilocybin, LSD, all these different things, it made them Schedule I. So the idea is that there was no benefit, including Ibogaine, which is crazy, which means it has no medical benefit and harmful and addictive, all these different qualities that they attach to it. But the only reason they did that was to target the civil rights movement. The civil rights movement and the anti-war movement.

58:34That's what they were doing. They didn't like the fact that these people were causing trouble and then they were organizing, you know Marches and doing all these different things that were disrupting the government And there was also this movement where people like why are we living the way we're living? Like this was the 60s like why are we doing what we're doing? Like well, I don't want to be like my parents They're not happy, you know, I want to live a life. That's like freer I want to be filled with love and joy and I want to you know have a good time and follow the grateful dead around like so a lot of people in government were very concerned with this new movement and if you go and like music is a great example like if you look at the music of the 1950s and then you look at the music of the 1960s like what the fuck happened yeah like if you look at the music of 2016 and the music of 2026 not much difference Right.

59:25Right. It's all great. So but it's like it's not there's not some revolutionary, crazy new change. But you saw that from 1959 to 1969. There is a radical difference, a radical difference. Nineteen fifty. You got like you go from Buddy Holly to Jimi Hendrix. Like, OK, what the fuck happened? Something crazy must have happened. And it's drugs. It's psychedelic drugs. It's like the stoned ape theory in our modern society. Exactly. Exactly. And this terrified the administration. And they were really worried that they were going to completely lose control of the country. And so they passed this Controlled Substances Act.

1:00:08And that happened in 1970. And from that time on, we've been fucked. You know, for 56 fucking years, we've been under the grip of this stupid fucking law that was passed by the Nixon administration. It didn't make any sense. Some of the drugs that they added to aren't even psychoactive. They just threw a bunch of stuff in there and they missed a bunch of potent ones. Yeah. They missed 5-methoxy DMT. They missed 5-MeO DMT, which is one of the most potent psychedelics, if not the most potent psychedelic. You used to be able to buy that online. Oh, wow. Dude, there was a company that you could order from and they would send you a fucking jug of it as big as this.

1:00:51Now, the amount that gets you blasted into the center of the universe and introduces you to God is like the size that goes on your pinky. Yeah. Like your pinky nail, like that amount. You smoke that, you'll see God. Wow. And you could just buy a fucking jar of it online. There was a company called the American Chemical Company. American Chemical Company or American Chemical Corporation. And you used to be able to just buy 5-methoxy DMT and they would just send it to you like a jar of vitamins. Wow. And then you could go to head shops and buy salvia. Oh, yeah. So salvia is a fucking insanely potent psychedelic, which, by the way, is also sage.

1:01:36Like sage is the same family, the same genus as salvia. So, like, think about it. sage, meaning wise, like an old sage. And meanwhile, that is one of the most potent psychedelics in the world. And so kids were going to head shops and buying salvia. I don't know if they've made that illegal now. They probably have, right? Is salvia illegal now? I think, um... I don't know. So Ari Shafir on Brian Redband's podcast. Do you know this story? No. Okay. Ari Shafir went on Brian Redband's podcast and took a giant hit of Salvia and went under for like 10 minutes. And when he came back, he said that he had lived six months under the water with an entire different community of human beings under the water.

1:02:30had relationships had a job like had a six month experience and then came back in that 10 minutes and he was so confused he was so baffled he's like i had a life under there i had a girlfriend i had friends he goes i had all these experiences no shit yeah or he's crazy man he's crazy he's fun he came out to my show in new york he's the man he is the man um but i mean That's how potent this fucking salvia stuff is. By the way, a lady had a very similar experience recently who went into a coma. So she was in a coma for an extended period of time. I want to say it was like a few months. And when she came out, she had a whole life that she said she had triplets.

1:03:20And she had like she was married, all these different things. Here's a story. she asked for her triplets after waking up from a coma doctors say they never existed when she woke from a coma first thing she did was ask for her three daughters medical staff was stunned the response shattered her entire world just like that the children she had nursed watched grow and deeply cared for over seven years were gone so she was placed in a medically induced coma for three weeks and what followed was a dream of a lifetime quite literally she was obviously not aware that she was in a coma. Instead, she slipped into a dream and a lifetime unfolded before her eyes.

1:03:58Talking to the outlet, the teen recalled having extremely intense dreams and nightmares. She was not aware that she was in a coma at the time. So those dreams became her reality. So she became a mother. She said it felt so real. She felt the physical and emotional pain throughout the hallucination. I could feel so many things. When I dreamed about giving birth, I felt the stress. I also felt a lot of pain in this dream. I gave birth to triplets who I named Mila Miles and My Lee my Lee died shortly after birth I felt so awful overwhelmed with sadness and guilt she recalled She remembers the first skin-to-skin contact that she had with her babies.

1:04:36It was incredible I felt an overwhelming wave of love she added in her dream She lived for seven years and watched her daughters grow up each had their own personalities One was quite shy. The other was a bundle of energy. I remember walks, meals we shared, and bedtime stories. She loved them with all her heart. And then she woke up from the coma and was told that her children never existed. That's when they told me they didn't exist. I was in shock. I was so convinced that it was real that the time I saw my parents again, I told them they were grandparents. Whoa. That's crazy, man. It makes you wonder, what is reality?

1:05:15what is this thing that we're currently experiencing? Yeah. And we're currently experiencing this thing. But what is this? Is this everything? Is this the whole thing? Or is this like one channel on an infinite radio? And just while we're on that channel, we think this is the radio. Right. Maybe when you go to sleep, maybe that's just as real as being awake. it's a heavy thought but the idea that you just shut off every night is bananas yeah we look forward to it oh can't wait to just go away go away can't wait to not exist and if you don't like if i don't get enough sleep i'm like whatever whatever happens during the the dream time the sleep time the recovery i feel it i i've my waking life like i haven't done what i'm supposed to do by sleeping for an extended period of time so my this reality is compromised this reality i'm dumber my memory sucks i'm more tired i don't have any energy i can't wait to go to sleep can't wait to shut off so i can pay back the void pay back the void the time i owe into the dreamland of bizarre dreams yeah and just the symbolism of dreams too i've been having a lot of crazy dreams lately.

1:06:38Like what? I dream about snakes a lot, which is a good sign. Is it? Yeah, dreaming about snakes evidently just represents shedding your skin, going into something new, growing. Or you're surrounded by people who want to get you. Or maybe that. Both can be true. You know the music business. Yeah. There's a lot of snakes. isn't it every business though yeah i mean just the idea like the business side is just so in contrast to like the artistic sensibility you know an artist is supposed to be not supposed to be but just like psychological our makeup is more just like open and just more just like giving and wanting to share your craft with somebody and more emotional you know and then having to be like a shark and having to think like these snakes.

1:07:41Contracts. Yeah. Sign the dotted line Marcus. You're gonna make so much money Marcus. It's only seven years. It's just seven years. With an extension. With options. You'll be free. Don't worry about these songwrites. Yeah. You'll have other songs in the future. Right. That will be even better. Oh, good night. Bet on yourself, Marcus. Take the money. Don't you want a big house? Don't you want a fancy car? You need a Rolex. Have you ever seen Late Night with the Devil? Yes. That was fucking good. Yeah, that's the talk show? Yeah. Yeah, that is great, man. Who made that? That's a good question. That's a really good movie.

1:08:35We watched it on the bus one night. I was like, whoa. That was like 2019 or something? It was heavy. Yeah, this was 2024. Oh, it's an Australian movie. Jack Delroy, the host of a failing, it's in 1977. Jack Delroy, the host of a failing late night show, decides to film a Halloween special. However, the broadcast takes a dark turn, unleashing evil into the nation's living rooms. Yeah, that's a dope movie. It was really fun. It was good. It's fucking scary as shit, too. It was scary. Yeah, it was good. Bro, you know what's fucking scary as shit and really good? That I just found out about from my daughter.

1:09:13There's a new show called, well, it's not even new. It's like four seasons. It's called From. From? Yeah. What's it on? Is it on like a... It's on Apple TV. I don't know if it's an Apple show, but it's on Apple TV. it's with the dude from Lost one of the dads from Lost Harold Perrineau he's been in a lot of things he's great and the show is fucking terrifying it's very original and very weird so it came out in 2022 interesting it's the first season premiered on Epix oh okay what's it on now? is it just on Apple TV?

1:10:00release epics mgm plus yeah so it says in 2018 youtube red remember we were talking about youtube red canada it's on paramount plus india it's on amazon prime i was on all over the place huh mgm pluses so it appeared on epics i don't even know what mgm plus is maybe that's just the company that's the production company so in 2026 they renewed the series for a fifth and final season it's fucking good man it's good and it's really scary it's really scary and fucking creepy and horrific it's about these people that um are stuck in this town that doesn't make any sense like the town doesn't make any sense and you can't get out of the town and at nighttime people come out of the woods but they're not people and they're like these monsters and if you let them into your house you can't let them into your house but if you let them into your house they butcher you and tear you apart and people they try to trick you into letting you letting them into your house like i'm not doing it justice it's like it sounds stupid but here's the pitch but it's it's really scary man it's really scary and really creepy to the point like I'm watching I get anxiety and I don't like watching shit like that before I go to bed because then I get like weird dreams and I start getting because it's like children are in trouble in it I'm a father and when I see children in trouble I get I fucking freak out you know this part of you you're like the sheepdog in you just like right so it's it's a good show though my wife gets on to me I like It's like forensic files.

1:11:46Oh. It puts me out. I love it. You like that before you go to bed? I don't know why. That's crazy. That's my comfort. How people murdered people. Yeah. I remember that show on HBO, The Autopsy Show. That was like one of the first ones. Okay. Do you know that show? The Autopsy one. It was this guy, Dr. Michael Badden. And what he was was a forensic scientist that would catch people that had murdered people and got away with it. They would exhume bodies and find things. And it was all these different cases of where someone had gotten away with murder, but then they discovered how they did it. It was very, very interesting.

1:12:24Wow. Because people are fucking weird, man. Like, you know, a lot of, like, wives poisoning their husbands. Like, multiple husbands died of similar ways. Yep. Nurses that poisoned the people under their care. There's some fucked up people out there. There's some fucked up people out there, man. And the crazy thing is they get away with it. That's the crazy thing is for every one that Michael Baden catches, how many of them get away with it? Yep. Like what percentages of murders in America go unsolved? Let's put this into perplexity. Our AI sponsor and find out what the deal. What do you think it is?

1:13:06What percentage of murders go unsolved in America? Oh, that's a good question. Take a guess. 50, 60 percent. Whoa. But I don't know how you would quantify it. I guess you'd find out. Well, someone gets murdered and they don't catch anybody. Oh, right, right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, it's half. Wow. So you're saying there's a chance. So you're saying there's a chance. Approximately 40 to 50 percent of murders in the United States go unsolved. It means that roughly half of all homicide cases do not result in arrest or resolution. So I was talking to somebody, and someone who lives in their community got arrested because the wife went missing, and they got the wife's DNA from this guy's chainsaw.

1:14:01they have no body they have no evidence other than there's some DNA on his chainsaw and you know he's playing stupid so he's in jail now but everybody that knows him and like like these these friends of mine they know the family they knew him they knew her shit and he's just in jail and they don't know if they have enough evidence to convict him and so he's been in jail for a while now and they're trying to gather enough evidence for trial but all they have is like dna i don't even know what that means like how much dna like did he clean the chainsaw and not do a good job i don't know what that means but was she like out like trimming hedges who knows that's the thing it's like you could use a chainsaw and accidentally scratch yourself like you don't have to cut yourself it doesn't even have to be on like if you're moved if you're you know taking a chain I don't know why the wife would be taking a chainsaw out into the, I mean, some women are capable and they do it, but my wife, you know, accidentally scraped your arm with this chainsaw and they went over every blade with a swab.

1:15:12They probably could find your DNA and go, Oh my God, you did it. Yep. I don't know. I don't know what happened, but apparently these people that I know believe that the husband chopped this lady up. Oh really? Yeah, they think you did it. They're fighting a lot. I remember when I was a kid, my sister used to, and Shane's actually got a really funny bit about how diabolical older sisters are. My sister used to say, I hope you go to jail for something you didn't do. Whoa. I hope you get wrongfully convicted for something and you're in jail forever. Jesus Christ. That's a terrible thing to say to somebody.

1:15:51What did you do to her to make her say that to you? Who fucking knows? That's so dark. I hope you go to jail for something you didn't do is so evil. Wow. We're very close now. Are you? Oh, yeah. Well, she was a kid. We were kids. How old was she when she did that? When she said that? She's two years older than me, so she must have been like nine or ten. Oh. People say things. Kid stuff. And nine or ten. They're just being kids. Yep. That's a diabolical mind, though. That's how you want someone to suffer. You want someone to emotionally suffer for something they didn't do forever. I heard her and a neighbor boy.

1:16:29It was a vacant house across from mine. And they like locked me in the back fence. And my sister was like, this is where you live now. Whoa. They were like, unless you break that window. And I was like, I don't want to break the window. And like, sure enough, like they said, well, we're not letting you out of this gate. And I probably could have waited it out, but I was like five or six. So I just said, all right. So I took a brick to the window and they're like, well, we're going to go tell on you now. I was like, wow. Really fucked up. What the fuck does she do now? My sister is actually, she's a badass, man.

1:17:01She drives for the Department of Transportation. She's got her CDL. She's awesome. Sounds like she has some devious thoughts in her mind. She's, yeah. Sounds like she should write books. I know. She's so smart. That sounds very creative. Yeah. You know? Like she's manipulating a five-year-old into breaking a window so she could tell on him. But as a seven-year-old. Yeah. No, she's awesome. But actually, I had a good friend I told that story to, and she loved it so much, she got me a welcome mat from my house that said, this is where you live now.

1:17:41That's fucked up, man. Where did she learn that kind of behavior? Probably my mom. Oh, was your mom like that? My mom was pretty wild, yeah. Yeah? Mm-hmm. Boy. Yep. I had an interesting upbringing. Most artists do. Especially most interesting artists. I don't know a lot of interesting artists that say, like, my childhood was perfect. It was amazing. There was so much love and everybody was really supportive and understanding. We talked a lot about stuff. We spoke about our feelings mostly around the dinner table. There's always some sort of element of psychological torture involved. or some kind of abandonment or some kind of sometimes touchy uncle whatever it is yep something ignoring you yeah just not making you a priority making you not feel special or making you feel like you're a burden is something something that causes you to like want exorbitant amounts of attention from strangers sure yeah yeah but look that's where the great stuff comes from which is really wild like there's this concept that you cannot have good without evil and i think there's something to that i think it's just part of the human condition for whatever reason you you don't appreciate good unless you experience bad which is why rich kids are fucked you grow up rich with everything you've ever wanted there's no struggle it's so difficult for those people to ever be exceptional because they don't have the motivation they don't have that they haven't experienced the bad not in that way like i remember i went on a hunting trip with uh my friend uh steve vernella and brian callan we went to alaska and it rained every day it rained like six days and we're soaking wet and we came back to la and uh it was sunny and i was driving my car and I had to call my friend Steve and I said dude I have never been happier the sun hits my face I'm so appreciative I'm so and I've never felt like this like it's always like this in LA yeah but it never meant anything to me it was just yep another day in LA gotta go to work but this one day I was like just filled with gratitude and I was so happy the sun on my face It felt so good and warm.

1:20:08And I realized, like, oh, you have to suffer in order to really appreciate the good. Like, if it's just all good, you're not going to appreciate it. You need evil people so that you really appreciate the people that are beautiful and that you love. Right. You need people that suck so you appreciate people that are kind. Yeah. You know, you need people that are mean so you appreciate the ones that are nice. Yeah. Just people that are on the level. just people that are like no agenda just just kind people and it is that duality that kind of gives you perspective that's what i meditate on every day is perspective that's why i wonder about the music business and then even the comedy business i think kind of any business i'm sure it's the same with the music uh it's rather a movie making business as well it's like you almost need these rotten vampire cunts that are you know what i mean it's like so you're a punk band but so that like when you see fellow musicians that you love like you give them a hug like you embrace each other like oh we're cool like you know what i mean it's like we're together now it's all right we're okay it's trauma bonding yeah we're away from the cunts yeah we're away from the vampire cunts it's like my boy charlie crockett you know um charlie always says like you can do what they do but they can't do what you do charlie's great he's a fucking man he's an interesting dude too very interesting dude very you know interesting life like the life that that guy had and playing street music for so long and finally getting discovered very like again but that's how you get a person like that when you talked about his childhood how fucked up it wasn't crazy he was basically just on his own from the time he was a teenager just running around just singing songs yep you know like that's how you get a person like that yeah you can't create a charlie crockett in a lab no or a jelly roll you don't you don't create those in the lab they got to go to jail first you know what i mean but it's like i mean jelly's like one of the most beautiful people i've ever met in my life he's the one of the nicest sweetest kindest warm affectionate people everybody hugs everybody tells everybody he loves them and he means it and because he's been through hell you know and that's that's how you make a person like that jilly's in like a constant state of like like when you run into somebody after they've had an ayahuasca experience yeah he has this constant like gratitude yes that i feel like kind of fades even with people who have like ayahuasca journeys or experiences.

1:22:57Yeah. You know, he's just, I don't know. There's something really pure to that. Yeah, he's maintained it, especially now that he's on this like health journey. I think that sometimes the momentum of life takes over and you kind of forget those beautiful moments. You're grounded in these moments where you realize like, God, I'm so lucky to have a beautiful family that I love and friends that I love and be able to do what I do for a living. God, I'm so lucky. And that feeling, like sometimes it goes away because you're dealing with this and that and contracts and fucking then the New York Times wrote a hit piece on you.

1:23:34Oh, shit. And you forget. You lose your perspective. But I almost feel like you need all those other shitty elements to just reinforce the good elements, that there's this constant sort of mechanism that's going on where there's this constant process of pros and cons, of negatives and positives, and they're duking it out to see who rises. And the more the negative comes at you, the more it has this creative desire inside of you to excel with your music or your art or whatever it is that you do, to just push past it. I mean, think about some of the great songs that people have written just about the struggles that they've gone through just even in the music business, you know?

1:24:22Yeah. Like Leonard Skinner working for MCA. You know, there's a lot of those songs like that. It's like people just want to tell you what the fuck they've been through. Yeah. La Chic, Freak Out. What's that about? They weren't allowed to get into Studio 54. They wouldn't let them in. And the song was originally written as Fuck You, you know? Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Fuck you. Oh, really? Yeah. Instead it's freak out? Yeah. And that ended up being a major hit. That was because they couldn't get into a club? Yeah. That's pretty crazy. Pretty crazy. Yeah. Yep. But it is just about threading that needle of like wanting more for yourself, but for the right reasons.

1:25:11That's something that I think about every day. It's just like having a virtuous reason to want more, you know? not just for the sake of having it or for hoarding wealth or anything like that it's like i want to work to where i can get to a place where you know my wife and i can have our own bus and raise kids on the road you know but you can't do that unless you have a certain profit margin on the road you know so i'm always kind of trying to think of like virtuous causes to want more you know because in reality you know i should be grateful for everything that i do have but also So speaking of that, you know, and trying to meditate on the things that I'm grateful for every day.

1:25:52That's a good perspective. I think people get trapped in working towards a result instead of thinking about the process. Right. I try to be process oriented. I try to think about whatever I'm doing, just try to be better at it and do a better job at it. And I think the other stuff sort of takes care of itself. if you have the right people. And that's where the evil cunt vampires come in because they'll steal all that goodwill. Like if you leave the door open, like on that TV show, on From, you let them in, they'll fucking tear you apart. They'll tear you up. Yeah. And it's hard because you don't want to become jaded.

1:26:37Right. You don't want to become like... I feel like I meet a lot of people out there who, like they're open and they're kind but they're not interested in making any new friends you know it's like they have their circle and on one hand i kind of understand that i get that you know but it's it's hard you know you got to maintain a certain level of perspective not to become like angry and yeah yeah it's hard and it's hard to know who you can let into your circle too like you got to give people a stress test you know what i mean yep it's almost like you have to give them a baggie and then have a fake cop and say where'd you get marcus king gave it to me oh gotcha bitch i ran into this guy recently and um uh basically what happened like i was on jam cruise years ago and I was super fucked up and I was supposed to sit in with this band called Naughty Professor from New Orleans and they're like they're so good and they're just outrageously talented musicians and I had gone out on an adventure that morning on a catamaran I didn't know what the fuck a catamaran was I didn't know if it was land air or sea vessel so we go out there turns out it's a boat and we go like snorkeling in the Cayman Islands and we're just like looking at all the fish and like my girlfriend at the time and a bass player friend of mine from a band called Lettuce, his name's Jesus.

1:28:11So out there with my girlfriend at the time. His name is Jesus? Yeah. Not Jesus? Well, his name's Eric, but he goes by Jesus. Oh boy, Eric. Oh boy. How did Eric get in your circle? I don't think it's a messiah complex or anything. I think it's just a nickname that stuck. But they were tripping on acid and I was drunk on rum and beer. and just out there wading, and, like, when we came up for air, the boat had, or we had drifted quite a ways from the boat, and, like, we couldn't get their attention, and, like, the waves started crashing, and, like, a storm started rolling in. Oh, fuck. Like, three waves, and, like, you know, I'm not the strongest swimmer, you know, but we were basically, you know, we were treading water out there for, like, 40 minutes.

1:28:57Holy shit, dude. You know, we were going to drown, and finally the dude jumped off the boat and came out there and then he was like yelling at me because I didn't have flippers on so I was just out there with just my shorts on and some goggles and uh he signaled for the boat to come around and they pulled us up out of the water so after that we were celebrating our life you know so I got completely hammered and then I was on the boat and I was like well I need to pick me up you know because I got to sit in with these guys are they're like college educated like jazz musicians so uh this guy comes over he's like hey man you need a jatuski and i was like yeah hook me up and he pulled out a spoon and he digs it down in the bag and i go to take it and it's like a small little mountain i was like give me a little more and he gave me some more and big snort my whole face went numb and i was like and it stung.

1:29:54I was like, whoa, what the fuck was that? And he was like, just a little blow. I was like, no, it wasn't. And he said, yeah, it was. And I grabbed him by the shirt and I said, what the fuck did you give me, motherfucker? And he looked at his buddy. He had him like this. And he said, hey, what bag did you give me, bro? And he was like, the blue one. And he's like, oh, no. And he looked at me and I was like, what was it? And he was like, it's ketamine. Oh! So I went totally the wrong direction. But I ran into that guy at the Grand Ole Opry. He came into my dressing room and was like, hey, remember me?

1:30:32Wrong bag. I was like, yeah, I remember you. Yeah, I don't like you. Yeah, you kind of put me in a weird spot. What was that like, taking ketamine after you almost died? Man, it was heavy, you know. I basically like from what I recall I became part of the boat that's how I remember it my feet were like in the deck you know I was moving the whole boat with every step that I took that's what I remember

1:31:12but there was this one guy that kept trying to get me to come play a festival in New Mexico and I kind of put him off the whole week and then he ran into me and I just remember his eyes getting big like saucers. I don't know what I said to him but it was some crazy shit. Or it wasn't English at all probably. Ketamine talk. Ketamine's a weird one, man. Because there's a lot of people that are doing that right now for therapy. Yeah. Like Neil Brennan, a comedian, the co-creator of the Chappelle Show, So he was the first person to tell me about it because Neil's had depression problems most of his life.

1:31:52And we were in L.A. and he said we're in the hallway of the comedy store. He goes, I've been doing ketamine therapy for depression. And I go, how's that working out? Is it good? He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I didn't know what to expect. He goes, I thought, oh, you know, it's in a doctor's office. It's probably going to be just I'm probably just going to close my eyes and I'll feel. He goes, no. He goes, it's fucking a full-blown trip. He goes, tripping balls in a doctor's office is fucking strange. I bet. He said it worked, though, for a little while. Like, he's done a bunch of different things.

1:32:29He did a ton of ayahuasca. He's done a bunch of ketamine. He did, like, magnets on his brain, I think. He's done, like, a bunch of different things that try to, like, rewire the way his brain works. Yeah. Like, whatever it is. That's a journey I'm on, you know. I'm on antidepressants and I want to get off them which ones you're on I'm on Cymbalta what does that one do well is it an SSRI yeah so basically just kind of a it's for a chemical imbalance you know but like the best work that I did to combat my depression and anxiety and stuff was microdosing you know mushrooms yeah like that's that's the most progress that i'd seen in my life and um i'm gonna figure out some kind of strategy because you know like being on antidepressants and i'm telling you like whoa don't just stop taking them all at once or you know you could have seizures and shit i'm like i don't like that i don't want to be like you know enslaved by a drug by a pharmaceutical drug you know yeah I'm and it's like also like now you just take this the rest of your life it's like what's the end result here yeah Theo Vaughn's going through the exact same thing and last time I was on the podcast he was explaining it to me and it freaks me out because I know Theo's had conversations before like even publicly he had a Netflix taping and it didn't go well it's like they actually never they shelved it they never used it you know there was all these stories from people that were there saying he bombed i think he just had a kind of a breakdown and when he was talking to the crowd and there's a video of it we said you know the people were shaking hey we still love you thank you look i'm just i'm trying not to take my own life that's what i'm trying to do right now yeah and like you hear stuff like that and you just go like oh jesus christ i've known too many people that i didn't think were going to kill themselves and then did.

1:34:32And then he goes down these spirals where he starts talking about world events and freaking out. I'm like, Oh, Jesus Christ. Like I got to help this dude. And so I send him things about people getting off of them. And apparently there's some doctors that specialize in getting people off of them. But here's the thing about that chemical imbalance thing. That's not real. They, they used to think that that was what these things do, that they treated a chemical imbalance. But then recently studies have shown that that is not what they do. They don't exactly know what they do. And they kind of numb you in some sort of a way that helps some people.

1:35:13And I've had some friends, and I don't want to make any blanket statements because I've had some friends that were suicidal. Ari is one of them. And he got on SSRIs and it helped him. He tried a bunch of different ones, found one that worked, got on track. And then his career started taking off. And then as his career started taking off, he started feeling much better. He was on a good, positive path in his life. And then he slowly weaned himself off of those, and now he's off of them. So I think that might have saved his life. I also know other people that have been on those things and taken their own lives.

1:35:52So I don't know. Because that's part of one of the side effects is suicidal ideation. It's one of the side effects. But see if you can find anything about the chemical imbalance not being true. The chemical imbalance reason for taking SSRIs. They've measured levels of dopamine, serotonin, and people that take it. That's not what it's doing. And they don't even exactly know why it works. And it's a huge business. That's part of the problem. And it's also part of the problem. These doctors are incentivized to prescribe people these things. I had a friend that went to a psychiatrist and was talking about their life and things not doing well.

1:36:38And immediately the doctor tried to prescribe him SSRIs right away. Like right away. Here's something that you're never going to get off. I'm going to give it to you right away. First meeting. And he was like, well, I don't mean, shouldn't I like try exercise? Shouldn't I try diet? Shouldn't I try just drinking water? And, you know, like I read something about like magnesium and red light therapy being far more effective than even SSRIs. There is no good evidence for the simple chemical imbalance like low serotonin that directly causes depression or automatically means someone should take an SSRI.

1:37:14But SSRIs do change brain chemistry in ways that can help some people. um but so for decades depression was popularly explained as a serotonin imbalance in the brain large reviews of the research have not found convincing evidence that people with depression have consistently low serotonin or a specific measurable imbalance that explains their symptoms experts now describe the chemical imbalance story as an oversimplified or outdated way of explaining a much more complex condition. And here's the other thing about depression. It has to be connected to the state of your life. Like if you have a terrible job, you're in a bad relationship, you have abusive parents, you know, and you live in a shitty neighborhood.

1:38:06Why would you be happy? Oh, I'm depressed. Oh, you need a pill. Do you? Is that what you need? Right. Well, it's quite possible that you're eating processed foods and you have all these other things that we talked about. Shitty life, shitty house, shitty job, shitty neighborhood, shitty parents. Maybe you just need to make your life positive. Like figure out a way to get your life in a positive direction. They've shown that exercise is way more effective than antidepressants at actually helping people with depression. Just exercise. Just fucking go on a nice long walk every day. Do some cardio.

1:38:43You know, take a fucking yoga class. That's way better for people than these goddamn pills. But these doctors are financially incentivized to prescribe these things. And they prescribe them and hand them out like candy. And, again, I think for some people it helps them. And that's the issue, right? I mean, if it wasn't a financial incentive, I think it would be like take these for six months. You'll be better. Yeah. It wouldn't be like forever. This is you now. Even six months. It's like, okay, how long does it take to get off him? Right. Because I know a guy who was on him, and it took him a year and a half after he got off of him before he felt normal again.

1:39:22For a year and a half, he was fucked up because he was on him for, I think he said he was on him for 10 years. And then for a year and a half, he got off of him. And it just took that long before he finally, like, balanced the ship out. like whatever waves he had to go through for a year and a half. But he was like, whatever I'm doing, I am not going back on those goddamn pills. So he wrote it out and came out on the other end. It's fucked up, too, because it's hard to compare your experience to other people because everybody's brain chemistry is different. Yeah. So you could have two people on the same medication like you were saying earlier.

1:40:04It's hard to even quantify. I even talked to my own sister or other family members about their depression and their mental health journeys. And it's just interesting to think like you could say like it's hard to disprove it. You know what I mean? Because somebody could be doing well on it. But it's also like it takes two weeks for it to really get into your system. and I've I had to try like three or four different ones before one really I felt Felt like me, you know, like even at my grandmother's funeral. Like I just felt nothing. I just felt numb And like I didn't notice it until I got into a situation where I was like This woman raised me and I can't feel anything It wasn't until like a heavy moment like that that I was able to Kind of have that perspective of like I should be feeling something right now so I put those down and then uh it's like two weeks later I was having dinner with somebody and like this song came on that just brought all of it up there was this melody this Wayne Shorter melody that just uncorked everything and I was just sobbing at the dinner table you know Wow.

1:41:23What did you feel like before you took them, and what was wrong with the ones that you didn't stick with? Well, I don't know if it was a matter of, like, maybe the dosage was too high, and it was just kind of creating a block. Because, like, you've got to feel some emotions, right? So how did you feel before you were taking them? Like, what was bothering you that you realized you needed to take something? Well, I think a lot of it had to do with just, like, substance abuse, but I was feeling really anxious and really suicidal and just really, really depressed, you know? And just this overwhelming sense of dread every day.

1:42:07and just also just a lot of helplessness, like just trying to go into different doctors and just like trying to figure out like what the fuck is it that's going to finally, you know, take this away. But also realizing like I rely on that a little bit, you know, for what I do for a living, you know. So there's kind of that, you know. Rely on the feelings of depression. Yeah, all that, you know, for writing and for creating. god that's a fucking conundrum yeah being fearful that it's going to take your drive away because you don't have anything to create for no substance right so it's a it is a strange battle it's one that i still kind of deal with but i'm just in a much better spot on the journey so which ones did you try and what was wrong with the ones that you tried that they just numbed you up this was like six years ago so like 2020 um i can't remember the name of the specific medication i'm sure i have a an old bottle of it somewhere in my house but um yeah i don't know i just but what did it do it just made you too numb just made me feel numb and then when you found one that worked what did that do differently so the one that i'm on now I mean like if I go a day without it like the withdrawal symptoms are like fairly severe just like headaches and just like complete like body tingling sensations and just like it's really scary stuff it's just you know so I'm going to have to wean off of it slowly over time like I already did I wonder if Ibogaine would help with that Well, I mean, you know, it's like I was saying, like, microdosing mushrooms was like the first thing that I actually felt some kind of lasting result.

1:44:10Like now, like when I get an anxiety attack or something, I can recognize it as something just coming from an outside force, you know, an energy that's not aligning with me. And I can recognize it. I can work through it. Where like before, I would just get a little overwhelmed, you know. But I think also just like not drinking and like having to socialize with people and having to have a little exposure therapy to like social interactions and life in general without just masking myself with drugs and alcohol has helped a lot too in that growth. so when you first started taking it you there's all the stuff that you're doing in terms of like abusing alcohol and substances and that which definitely causes you to feel like shit and definitely causes a lot of people to have like all sorts of angst and anxiety and just fucks with you this stuff alleviated that What?

1:45:15What, I'm on now? Yeah. I mean, you know, it has. Kind of? And I'm afraid of, like, you know, if I get off of it, are those emotions going to come flooding back in, you know? So did it stop those emotions? This was all, by the way, while you were drinking, right? Yeah. And how long has it been since you drank? Like a year and a half. Okay. But, I mean, those emotions do come back every now and again. Even while you're on the stuff? Yeah. But it significantly curbed them? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But it's like, you know. At what price? I mean, I was talking to my boy Ernest about it because, you know, he's kind of a kindred spirit.

1:45:59And, like, you know, just talking about, like, I'll be working out and, like, getting after it, feeling good, listening to the Stones or whatever. And, like, I noticed, like, in my gym at my house, like, I guess they used to have a punching bag hanging up there. And just, like, you see something like that and you just take a mental note of, like, that could probably hold my weight, you know? It's just like these. Oh, you mean to hang yourself? Yeah. Like these thoughts just kind of come, you know? And it's, I don't know where they come from. They just pop in. And as quick as they come, they go.

1:46:36And this is before you've taken the medication? No, I mean, this is like a month ago. Okay, did you have those thoughts before the medication? Oh, yeah. Okay, so they're still there. Yeah. So whatever it's doing, it's doing a little bit? I mean, it's got to be helping to a degree. Do you think it is? I think so, but I think it's really just about your will and your mental, your ability, just like we were talking about with diets and stuff. You know, like, does Ozempic help curb, you know, appetites? But you could also just exercise and just have willpower. And I think mental health can be of a similar thing.

1:47:17One of the things that people are finding about Ozempic is it actually curbs your desire to be in love, too. Ugh. Yeah. That's a nasty thought. Yeah. You don't enjoy anything. Yeah. Yeah. What I'm hearing about these SSRIs is like genitalia paralyzed. I saw that. Yeah. I saw that on Twitter. Some lady was talking about her. She got off of it and her clitoris is numb. She can't have orgasms anymore. That's fucked up. Yeah. If that ever happens, it's like, you know. Well, the problem is I don't know if it comes back. Yeah. So you can't wait for it to happen and like which medications cause it to happen.

1:48:01Yeah. If you do get off of it, have you talked to your doctor? Like, what is the protocol? Well, weaning off of it. My doctor always just says, like, I don't know. Every time I talk to my doctor, it's like every few months we check in, and he's like, well, how are you feeling? How are you doing? I'm like, well, I'm okay. Just kind of feels like the same. kind of want to get off of them and he's like well you know if you want to do that like you're going to have to go slowly over time but you know are things good and I'm like yeah things are fine he's like well you don't really want to change things if they're good right you know that kind of thing and you worry what's that what's that going to be like getting off of them because the thing about it is like I was talking about this guy that was on him for 10 years like that year and a half was fucking rough where he was experiencing all sorts of problems because his body was just kind of in shock that it'd be on he'd been on SSRIs for a decade and then all sudden he's off of him it's like like the way Theo described it is like the floor was missing like the floor fell out from under him getting off him he got off him for a while and then got back on him he got off him about a year ago for a little while and then got back on him but he wants to get off him he just doesn't know what to do and i mean hell it's like it's it's like a it's literally a plot device you know like the show the ozarks you know like the crazy brother like he's pouring his medication down the drain yeah and he goes fucking nuts you know it's like somebody being off their medication is kind of a pejorative term, right?

1:49:56Yeah. But I'm like, I kind of want to get off mine. Well, it depends on what medication, right? Some people are schizophrenic. Yeah, if it's antipsychosis, I guess. If you've got psychosis. Do you exercise? Yeah. What do you do? I usually do 20 minutes on the Peloton and then a different muscle group every day. Oh, that's good. Anything cardio-wise is great for depression, supposedly, and even weights. Weights are supposedly really good for anxiety for some reason. I've noticed. Yeah. There's a real definitive difference when I'm working out versus when I'm not. Yeah. Man. So, like, do you have a strategy for when you're thinking about doing this or how you're going to try to do this?

1:50:43Well, I was thinking I'd probably do it when I had some time off. but I'm working the rest of the year but honestly man being on the road is kind of my constant so I think it's something that I could probably accomplish while I'm on the road but I'd have to have like a breakdown yeah fuck that you're in Nashville about to do a show and you're like I gotta cancel the show yeah it's hard to determine it scares me man and again it scares me because doctors incentivize to keep you on them and promote them and get you to do them. Also, and they've been prescribing them for people. They don't want to ever think that they're doing something bad.

1:51:27There's a justification process in there somewhere. A hundred percent. Justification process, financial incentives. There's a lot going on there. And then there's also this position that they're in of expertise where they're explaining to you what you should and shouldn't do and how it works. And when you're like, this is fucking up my whole life and I can't get off them. Like, oh, it's just why slow down. Like, isn't everything doing well? Just keep keep on the same path, Marcus. Everything's fine, Marcus. Bye. Click. Got a new patient calling. Oh, hi, Jenner. Do you? Yeah, it's it's very weird, man.

1:52:03It's very weird that our society is so hypermedicated. Yeah. Yeah. And injectables are the wave of the future. So even like my boy Chevy that works for me, he used to work in pharmaceutical sales. And he's like, everything is injectables now because that's what's hot. Because of like the Ozempic craze. Ozempics and stuff. So like every medication is like peddling injectables. Because like the wave of like peptides and Ozempic and all that kind of stuff. Now it's like, it's trendy. Which is really interesting to me. That is weird. Because I grew up with my dad having type 2 diabetes and my grandfather too.

1:52:47And, you know, just seeing them inject like insulin and stuff, I was like, yuck. Well, type 2 diabetes, the thing about that one is you can cure that. Yep. You just got to stop eating like a pig. Which is crazy. I know a bunch of people that have stopped themselves from having type 2 diabetes. Yeah, and that's a goal that I'm on is preventing myself from ever dealing with that. I don't eat sugar or anything. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, I gave up sugar. Well, again, the ketogenic diet is supposed to be good for depression too. Do you take supplements? Are you taking magnesium and multivitamins and all that jazz?

1:53:26Oh, yeah. That's good. It seems like you're doing a lot of the right things, man. Yeah, man. You know, I just don't want to be a prisoner to pills. Yeah, and I love my wife, and I'm just excited to have some babies, and just I want to get myself, like, her career is taking off, and my career is going really well. Does she take SSRIs? No, that's good. She's very anti, like, any pharmaceuticals, which I really admire about her. I was just reading something about SSRIs and the development of children, children's brains when women are pregnant and they're on SSRIs, and apparently there's a bunch of issues.

1:54:06I can see that. I mean, look, man, there's millions of people on those things. There's a giant business and they want to hide all the side effects and hide all the negative aspects of it and hide the impact that it does just to the overall psyche of the nation. When you've got – okay, let's just take a guess. How many people do you think in this country are on SSRIs? With liberal women, it's like 80 percent of them.

1:54:34And the other 20 percent need them. And what's the percentage of people on SSRIs in America? Let's guess. Man, I'd probably say like I would go even higher. I'd say like 60 to 75. Really? Yeah. 60 to 75 percent of the country? Yeah. Wow. I don't think it's that. I think it's under 30. It's too many. It's too many. Yeah. It's definitely too many. But there's also a bunch of people that are looking for a quick fix when there's a bunch of factors to why you don't feel happy. Like we were talking about before, there's lifestyle, life choices, situation that is beyond your control, like where you're born, where you live, the job that you have, where you, you know, if you're in a place of limited opportunity and you got a bunch of shitty people around you and life sucks every day, it's hard to be happy.

1:55:25It's hard to not feel depressed. So then there's the question of like, how does one develop the the tools to get out of that situation and get somewhere else. And for a lot of people, it's something that helps them break out, whether it's starting a business or being a musician or an artist or something that gets you out of there. And then you start getting around more positive people and then you make more positive lifestyle choices, but you just can't expect to be happy if your life is shit. Right. 13%. Okay. I was way off. American SSRI prescribing, But I bet in your business, that's why you think of it.

1:56:03Because with artists, I bet it's a lot higher. 13 % of U.S. adults report taking an antidepressant in any given 30-day period. SSRI is the most frequently used class within that group. Yeah. Okay. So 13%. So that's 2015 to 2018. I asked for an update for 2020. It said it's about the same. For 2026? I asked, is there any updates in 2020? And it basically said the same information. So about 13%. Still a lot. One out of 10 people on crazy pills is a lot. Yeah. In the arts community, though. Yeah, much more. Within the artist community. The last data that I remember reading was like 70 % of artists struggle with some faction of mental health.

1:56:55That makes sense. Yeah. And then there's also the newest element that targets your mental health and goes after it, which is social media. Yeah. That's a rough one, boy. That's a rough one. And so many people treat that as if it's no big deal. Like, you're just shooting heroin into your eyeballs every day with that stuff. Yeah, man. Not good. So many people are in there. Yeah. All day, every day, and then reading a bunch of negative shit about them and getting angry and upset. and then carrying that weight around with them all day. It's easy to say, like, don't read comments, but it's easier said than done.

1:57:35Yeah, especially if you have it on your phone. That's the thing. Like, you've got to not have it on your phone. If you have it on your phone, you're going to go to it. But then the problem is if you use it for touring and for posting information, keeping your fans engaged, you know. Well, the algorithm also serves you, like, you've got to engage. Like anytime you talk to a social media group, they're like, what are your engagement levels like? So they want you on the app using it, commenting, responding to people. Because if you don't and you choose not to do that, then they're like, well, can we go on there for you and respond to comments or whatever?

1:58:12And I'm like, no, I don't want you punching in any bullshit. So I'm like, I want to be on there and be myself. And if this is a tool that I have to have, I want it to be me, like authentically. but you know it's a necessary evil yeah but it it ruins so many people's brains it rots you yeah it really does and it's also you're absorbing so much negativity just from what's going on in the world like on any given day if i open up twitter and i just start reading what people are upset about it's just like oh my god the whole world is falling apart everyone's mad at everything and everyone and every little whatever fucking social issue political issue world issue economic issue everyone's blaming everyone and everyone's pissed and there's so many grifters and psychopaths that are just on there all day using it stirring up bullshit and fuck man i know it's um Yeah.

1:59:17You think I could use the bathroom? Fuck yeah, we could use the bathroom. We'll get into this. We're going to pee, folks. We'll be right back. And we're back, ladies and gentlemen. Where were we? Depression, everything sucks. Stay off social media. Yeah. Let's talk about music. Let's talk about some music. Damn. How did it take so long to talk about this? Have you seen that James Brown interview from the 80s? When he's got those big glasses on? Oh, yeah. I want to talk about some music. Like, that fucking interview's amazing. It's the best. When he had just got arrested. I'm out on love. Yeah.

1:59:50Aren't you out on bail? I'm out on love. Yeah. And he starts talking to the women in the thing. He's like, why is that, ladies? Yeah. No, it's hilarious. It's the best. He's clearly high as fuck. Yeah. Something going on there. James Brown was an original. When you first started doing music, how old were you? um man i was probably like two or three years old when i really that's crazy my grandfather played my uncles my dad still plays you know wow so were they professional or they just did it for fun my grandfather so he was a career service man he was in the air force and he was a staff master sergeant and he played honky tonks on the weekend he was in charge of booking all the nco clubs on the base so he would book like charlie pride or johnny cash barbara mandrell and his band would open up and then back them up oh wow so he was a country and western purist did you get a go to any of those shows when you were young no well so this was This was back in the 60s.

2:01:00Oh. My dad's 73, I think now. He was born in 53. And I was born when my dad was like 43. Oh, wow. So by the time I came along, everybody was, you know, a lot of my family traded in like, I think they associated music with a lot of the secular lifestyle. so they kind of when they all got born again and into the church that's around the time i came around you know so the music was really associated with church but i was really interested in that other stuff isn't that interesting i wonder why there's a division you know i think about it a lot i think that's the closest you can get to divinity right you know is music really um allowing yourself to get that close to something.

2:01:58And the conviction that you feel in a church, that's a good common thing for everybody to get on the same level. Yeah, that's part of the church experience of everybody having it together, experiencing it together as a group. Being together live in a room with a great musician on stage when everyone's enjoying it together is very much a transcendent experience. Yeah. It really is. It's like drinking the Kool-Aid, man. Yeah, it's like there's a beautiful moment where you're all experiencing it together and you're all clapping and cheering or you're all dancing and singing along. It's a beautiful moment.

2:02:37It really is. Music is like a drug, man. It really is. It's like a beautiful drug. Like the right song when you're on the treadmill, you're like, fuck, yeah. You could just keep going, you know? Yeah, dude. Tear a door off the hinges. Yeah. If I hear, like, Little Feet Skin It Back. Yeah. Yeah. There's certain songs that just give you fucking energy, man. Or, like, Bitch by the Rolling Stones. Oh, yeah. That song, if I need a pick-me-up in the morning, that song comes on. A great weightlifting one is Prison Sex by Tool. Oh, yeah? Oh, you know that song? Tool's a band that I never really delved into.

2:03:14Oh, they got some jams. I know Danny Carey and I know them because of my buddy Brent Hines. Did you ever listen to Mastodon? No. Man, I got to send you some choice cuts. Okay. But Brent, he was the fucking man. He just died back in September. Oh. I took him on the road right before that, which was messy. Oh, really? Which was messy. Oh, really? Brent, he and Mastodon kind of had a mutual agreement that he would leave the band. So he was doing his solo thing, and he's one of my heroes, you know? And I was like, I'll take you out, sure. And he just threw it together somehow, and then I ended up having to kick him off the tour, which broke my heart.

2:04:01But he kind of forced my hand. And the night in question, like I walked outside and he had this little tour manager named Angela and she was crying. And my tour manager was holding her and she was crying. I was like, fucking A, what happened now? She said, I walk into the dressing room and Brent pee on the floor. And I said, no, no, you have to stop. So then he pee in his mouth. Oh, Jesus Christ. And like, I know. You just have to picture my boy just like pissing. And she's like, you have to stop. And then he's like, oh. He pissed this in his own mouth. And like, at his funeral, I told Matt Pike from his sleep.

2:04:50I told him that story. And he was like, yeah? Like, and? Normal. He's like, it's a party trick. That's a Wednesday move. And I was like, yeah, no, it's hilarious. But it really offended her. And she got very upset. and the whole thing just fell apart. That was the last straw? That was it. Pissing in his own mouth? That was what did it. Really? Get him some paper towels and fix this. I was ready to fix it, but his whole band and crew, they were like, it's not working. What was he doing? He was just partying a little too much. you know and i mean i really i love that dude like a brother you know i miss him miss him a lot sometimes it takes a really wild crazy off the rails person to make music or make any kind of art that just moves you drives you crazy yeah i mean he was a true artist you know like he he was insane yeah like you gotta have friends that your wife doesn't particularly love you hanging out with right there's something about that friend yeah that's a lot of my friends yeah yeah yeah but those are the ones that make the magic yeah there's something to it and again that it is a magic thing that the the you know and this is coming from someone with no music i have no talent and so for me like watching it and experiencing it is a pure experience because I'm not like, oh, I don't like how he played that chord.

2:06:26I don't know anything about music. I just know I love it. I mean, Rick Rubin, you know, he's held on to that. He wants to be, you know, and I think he has been like the, you know, the voice of like the consumer. He hears what the consumer wants to hear. Well, he knows what he likes. Yeah. And he's got a very interesting mind. You know, he's a very interesting person to talk to. His perspective on things is very unique. I like him a lot. I really like him a lot. I like talking to him a lot. He sends you the wildest text messages. Oh, yeah. He sent me some fucking conspiracies that are often, sometimes I have to say, hey, that's not real.

2:07:16But every now and then I'll send you some ones that make you question reality. I like the thought of you talking Rick off of a ledge. Not necessarily talking off a ledge, just letting him know that some of the, you know, it's hard to know what's real and what's not real out there in the world if you're not like deep into the bowels of conspiracy theory movement. Yeah. You know? Right. But again, a guy like Rick, his sensibility, it's a very valuable position. A person just with a unique mind that is just helping shape how music gets produced and created. Because whatever it takes, it's not a science, like a math thing.

2:08:02It's not carpentry, like you have to level this and square that. No, man, there's some weirdness. weirdness and there's love in there and hate in there and there's there's there's a lot of stuff that it's intangible it's hard to describe like why this is better why this is good but when you hear it you know when you know you know you know there's some riffs you know there's some riffs that just like oh my god like the beginning of voodoo child's slight return come on yeah come on yeah just the beginning you hear you go oh yeah yeah dude yeah i mean dan our back's another one who's just oh yeah i love those perfected the riff yeah josh homie yeah stone age oh yeah um you know rick's a funny one man i love his philosophy on music too he just he looks at it the same way that colonel bruce hampton looked at it And Colonel Bruce Hampton and Rick both believed that music is like pro wrestling.

2:09:06Is Colonel Bruce Hampton the colonel from Elvis? Different colonel. Different colonel. Who's Colonel Bruce Hampton? Colonel Bruce Hampton, he was kind of like, so Billy Bob Thornton put him in a movie in Sling Blade. He was, I can't remember his name in the film. But yeah, Colonel Bruce Hampton, there he is. He died on stage at the Fox Theater. Wow. In Detroit? No, in Atlanta. Oh, okay. His story is he was born with two birth certificates. He was just a wild man. He was all about, like, instead of instruction, he called it outstruction. And, like, Billy Bob worked on a documentary about him in, like, 2003.

2:09:49And he was just, like, his whole philosophy on music and just, like, why we do it and just pointing out the hilarity of, like, the business and, like, the coffee getters, as he referred to them. you know we have a whole industry built around coffee getters now you know all the people that got the suits their lattes and stuff in the morning now they're calling the shots and that's a that's a weird place to be but the colonel bruce hampton i you know i just what i do now is i just buy copies of uh his uh documentary basically frightened and i just give it to people who aren't hip to the knowledge.

2:10:27So I'll send a copy down here. Yeah, it's called Frightened? It's called Basically Frightened. Basically Frightened. Colonel Bruce Hampton story, yeah. Is it available anywhere? Like, is it on Apple or Amazon? It's not streaming anywhere. No? So I just collect the DVDs when I can find them. Oh, wow. Can you buy a DVD anywhere? Like, if people are listening to this and they want to get a hold of it? Yeah, like eBay. That's the only way? That's the only place I've found them. Really? Yeah. And you'll be bidding against me. You just keep buying copies of it? Yeah. Wow. Every time I give one away, I buy another copy.

2:11:01Wow. Yep. Here's a final thread on Reddit, people looking for it, and someone's like, just mail me the DVD and I'll copy it for you. Like, you can't find it anywhere. Wow. It would be cool if it were to be streamed somewhere. It's a fascinating story. Why is it? $215 on Amazon, but I don't know that it's going to be even real. right they might just send you a fucking brick but he he was somebody like you know widespread panic that was like their guru you know really colonel bruce hampton jimmy herring you know um otill burbridge who i'm in a band with now um you know he started with bruce really i've never heard of him before you know it's just he's one of those guys that you know he was like to the southeast he was like our frank zappa you know like our son ra oh wow he's just all about just the outrageousness and you know i have a lot of friends who spent a lot more time with him than i did but like he was one of the first people that took notice to what i was doing when i was like 15 you know and then i remember like being in germany and finding out that he'd passed away on stage, which he predicted.

2:12:21He did? Really? Yeah. He said that's how he was going to go. Well, if you keep performing long enough, Carlin died in a hotel room on the road. Really? Yeah. I'm going to have to download this for you real quick. Oh, there you go. It's unlisted on YouTube. Oh, perfect. It won't be there tomorrow, though, after this episode gets released. Yeah. Yeah, can you download it? I can try it, yeah. Yeah. I'll just download it to you. I'll figure it out though. Okay. Jammy to the rescue. Sorry folks, if you're getting this. You might be able to find it still. I found it. Yeah, maybe somebody can upload it on one of them other social media platforms.

2:13:01That's cool. I'm interested in checking it out. I love music for inspiration. You know, it's, um, it's one of the unique art forms that, uh, it inspires you to create. It inspires you to go do things. Whenever I see a live band or a live performer, I can't wait to go do something. I want to go write. I want to go perform. Paul Mooney, who's a great comedian. Do you know who Paul Mooney is? Yeah. He used to write for Richard Pryor. He was one of the real OGs back in the early days when I came to the comedy store. I was kind of blown up. He was one of the guys I was always nervous around being around until he liked me.

2:13:42You know what I mean? Paul Mooney hates you. You're fucked. But he gave me that advice once early on. He said, if you want to entertain people, he said, go be entertained. He goes, you want to entertain, honey? Go be entertained, homie. Go see some other shit. He goes, go see something that gets you. Go see a great movie. Go see a band. Go see something. Be entertained. That's what my process is like in the studio, man. And like this last record we did, like we had a projector and we play like, you know, Giant with James Dean. We play like Easy Rider, Big Lebowski or like films that like inspired us, films that we like really gravitated towards.

2:14:27And all the while, you know, waking up in the morning and reading East of Eden and just like some of these great architects of Americana. And just like being inspired on every turn, watching live concert footage of bands that we love, Marshall Tucker Band, Skinner, whatever the case. Just inundating yourself with inspiring stuff, you know. Just something to get the juices flowing. Just summon the muse. Something to the gods of creativity. Sometimes we would play just the footage of like a Midnight Cowboy or something. and we would record in the mindset like we were trying to score this film. Oh, wow.

2:15:07Just to kind of get a different approach. I forgot about Midnight Cowboy. What a wild movie. It's a good one. Yeah, that was back when Times Square was dirty. Yeah. Now Times Square is one big Applebee's. That's when people would go and watch pornography together in a theater. In a theater. Yeah. Not only that, but it was a thing in the early days of pornography where couples would go out and like Johnny Carson went to see Deep Throat. Yeah. There's like famous people went to see the film Deep Throat in the theater. Yep. Well, it was adult entertainment. But how weird is that? That pornography, like there was always stag films, right?

2:15:54Like that was the thing that they used to make like in the early days of movies they would film People having sex and you could watch it like at a stag party, which was like a bachelor party, but then people tried to make Films like artistic films that had people having sex in them, which is a really interesting that we We find that Abhorrent like people don't like that in today's society We don't mind like this this show from that I was telling you about bro. The violence is horrific The gore and the violence is crazy. That's okay Just don't suck someone's dick. Don't make them come. That's terrible Do you remember the movie bad bunny?

2:16:34No, not bad bunny. Was that brown bunny brown bunny? Remember the movie brown bunny? Brown bunny was a Vincent Gallo movie that he made and There was a real sex scene in there like we're real like how do you say that lady's name chloe i don't know how you say her name she's a really good actress and she blows him like for real in the movie like it's a real scene and the movie's a real movie but then when it came to the sex part they actually did it and people were horrified yeah i mean that's so weird like Like if it was violence, like if it was a scene where she beat him to death with a baseball bat, people would be like, wow, what a crazy movie.

2:17:24Right. But it was a scene where she blows him. People are like, this is outrageous. Outrageous. And I think that movie ruined Vincent Gallo's career. Really? Yeah, because Vincent Gallo had been in a bunch of movies. He's a really weird guy, like a very interesting guy. And after that, he kind of dipped away from Hollywood. Like he kind of vanished. in a lot of ways. And that was the big thing. I remember reading these articles on how outraged people were that they had actually seen real sex in a movie. Like, it's so strange that we don't mind violence. Like, once upon a time in Hollywood, Brad Pitt takes a lady's head and bashes it into a mantelpiece and fucking brains her.

2:18:06Fine. No outrage. Everyone okay? Everyone's okay. But if he fucked her, like, actually pulled her pants down, You see Brad Pitt's penis and her vagina. You're like, this is crazy. Something that we all do. Yeah. But the simulation of it is fine, too. Right. Simulation of it is fine. Yeah. Like, it was a sex scene. And you just see his hips and her face. And they're kissing. Fine. Well, you just don't see actual sex. Even if it was like him and his wife. Like, if he made a movie with him and his wife and they decided to have actual sex in the movie, people would be like, this is disgusting. get this fucking smut off the screen but if they had a movie with him and his wife and she shoots him like okay that's fine didn't really happen right weird right it is weird i mean hell i did a commercial for like i did a shoot for this car and like they couldn't have me in the car while it was moving for insurance purposes so they had to like make it seem like i was in the car while It was moving.

2:19:10Insurance purposes. That's crazy. But that's more of a financial thing. Yeah. But the weirdness about sex, the point is, like, see if you can find that footage of all the people that were in line. There's like an old, there's a YouTube video of an old news report of people in line to see Deep Throat. Right. And again, Johnny Carson was one of them. I think they even interviewed him after the film. They went and watched people fuck like it was a movie, like you're watching The Joker or something. Right. Very odd. It is odd. And they got that name Deep Throat from the Watergate. Did they? Yeah. I thought Deep Throat was afterwards.

2:20:03I thought the Watergate thing was after. I don't know. I could be wrong. Chicken or the egg. Okay, so Watergate was what, 70? 74. Was it? The movie came out in 72. Oh, yeah, so the movie came out first. Okay. And so that was after those. So that's interesting, too, when you think about, like, 72 was not that long ago, and people's ideas of pornography were very different back then. A lot of my favorite venues in the country were porno theaters first. Comedy mothership, bro. All right. Yeah. It was a porno theater at one point in time. And people cared about the quality of the audio production in those films.

2:20:46You know, and these rooms sound really good. Variety Playhouse in Atlanta. It's one of the best scenes in American Werewolf in London. Okay. Do you remember that movie, American Werewolf in London? It's a great fucking movie. One of the best scenes, they're in the middle of London, and they're in an adult movie theater, and these people are watching pornography. They're watching a smut film. And while these people are fucking, he turns into a werewolf and kills everybody. I got to check that out. Oh, it's great. One of the greatest movies of all time. That wolf that we have in the lobby, that's a recreation.

2:21:20Oh, really? Of the American werewolf. Okay. That's what that is. The thing with Johnny Carson and Deep Throat, I think, is like a conglomeration memory. Is it? There's a weird, there is a photo of people waiting in line to see the movie. Mm-hmm. but it's like this is it on the screen but there was a video of Johnny Carson talking about it after the fact during his monologue that he went to see it oh so there wasn't a photo or a video of him at the movie theater I don't think so man I'm looking for it I sort of remember what you're talking about I think we might have read an article that listed all of this stuff what was that play where they had like everybody was like naked and it was like really a big deal um was it like hairspray or something like that i don't know in the late 70s my dad told me him and his friends went to go see this like broadway production or off broadway production um where like everybody was like nude and it was like this really you know it was like this really racy thing yeah and uh there was a preacher up front just like really just giving him hell man and then he got up closer and he realized it was his uncle my great uncle was up there just motherfucking him that's hilarious widely cited uh overview many works are quoted note that several mainstream celebrities appear to have seen deep throat including martin scorsese brian de palma truman capote jack nicholson johnny carson Spiro Agnew, Frank Sinatra and others.

2:22:56Barbara Walters later mentioned seeing it in her memoir These references are usually brief but they're pulled into many articles about the film's cultural impact But that's what's so interesting It's like, that is not not normal in today's society to even think that a bunch of people would say they went to go see a porn film. I think this is also so Midnight Cowboy, which is where you guys started this 1969, which is before this and won Best Picture as the only X-rated or NC-17 movie. So it started a little bit of a trend then. Interesting. And this is only three years later. Why was Midnight Cowboy X-rated?

2:23:36The reason? Yeah. Like what was so explicit that they had to make it an X? I would say a little bit has to do with marketing. But I don't know if there's a reason. I'll say if there's a reason. Marketing. Yeah, it'd make people want to go see it. Right, I guess. Oh, this is crazy. This movie's crazy. It's not standing out here. Right here. After consulting with a psychologist, they're told to give it a next homosexual frame reference and its possible influence on youngsters. Wow. That's crazy. Today, that would be celebrated. Right. Oh, there's a rape scene? I haven't seen this movie. I saw it in, like, the 80s.

2:24:22I haven't seen it in forever yeah but even I mean like in that film it's like a it's like a a distant thought that John Boyd's character keeps going back to like the rape scene whereas like when was the last time you saw it? a couple months ago probably oh really? but like fucking The Deliverance plays on AMC on TV right which is another rape scene nothing's edited out squeal like a pig I won't fuck me up when I was a kid. I'm not gonna lie. Oh, yeah, very much so Not it like supposedly took place like in the Appalachian like backdrop which is like where I grew up I was like that's fucking happening like here Because of then shocking sexual content even more importantly it's Frank portrayal of homosexuality and hustling Hustling meaning having gay sex for money which the studio and censors saw as potentially corrupting to young viewers.

2:25:21The film includes scenes and references to male prostitution, homosexual encounters, and brief but explicit situations including implied oral sex and nudity, which went far beyond what Hollywood had shown in a mainstream drama up to that point. Maybe now it would get just an R, but also that would be with this never existing. Now it would be celebrated. It's a film celebrating sex workers. It's weird. It's weird what was – but it's also weird that there was a movie that was an actual porn movie that a bunch of people just went to see and talked about. Like today, people want to pretend they don't even watch porn.

2:26:00Meanwhile, I think last check we did – oh, no, we've done this before, Jamie. Like what percentage of the internet is pornography, internet traffic? Take a guess at that. I bet it's way more than SSRIs. Right? Don't you think? Yeah, I haven't guessed right so far, so let's see.

2:26:2450%. Oh, I don't think it's that high. I would say 30. Okay. I would say 30 % of the internet, but I could be wrong. I don't remember. 30 % of the internet traffic is pornography. Let's say that. Maybe it's 40. I was just saying that's a myth. It's a myth? I don't I mean I haven't read through this yet that's a bunch of people lying about jerking off 30 to 40 percent things amiss apparently okay porn makes up a small share of sites yeah yeah yeah but traffic yeah it says it 30 to 40 percent uh widely stated but what is the what about traffic the amount of internet searches yeah but no but I mean traffic like the amount of bandwidth alright then it's getting lost in this word I used traffic.

2:27:09No, I used traffic. Yeah, you did. Why do we see higher numbers? See 37 % of the internet is porn. BBC reported tracing one of these popular figures back to single content filter company press release. Not an independent audited measurement. Some advocacy. I bet now today because of YouTube and the amount of streaming that goes on with like Instagram and TikTok, I bet it probably isn't as high as it used to be. the percentage wise because there's so much more content that's being streamed now than ever before porn related searches are 13 on the web and 20 on mobile devices that's funny it's more on mobile devices because people can hide in the toilet um the content filter company okay the claim comes from this yeah we read that we already read that well i just said so it could be just made up to begin with yeah could be but there's got to be like a number i don't know like the internet traffic I don't know how you'd get that number.

2:28:07So some advocacy or internet safety groups cite very high traffic shares and storage figures. Example, nearly a third of all internet traffic. But these are rough, sometimes opaque estimates rather than peer-reviewed measurements. Hmm. Okay. So it's at least 4 %? So it says roughly websites, 4 % to 12%. That's a lot. Does 4 % to 12 % of the whole internet is jerk-off websites? that's crazy but the volume in terms of the amount of bandwidth used right but I bet if you went and watched Deep Throat today it'd probably be pretty pedestrian it'd probably be tamed it probably would seem just like soft core almost like one of them showtime late night movies yeah I mean it is something that I you know I like to save all that you know when I get home off the road see my wife yeah you know there's something that it had originally the woman had an unusual birth defect that came from a doctor who has an unorthodox solution to make the best of her situation that is that the deep throat yes yes well that she could just take it some birth defect balls deep downward their chin that guy Harry Reams He was like one of the first famous male porn stars.

2:29:35I think he went on to be a real estate salesman or something. Like if you're one of those people that gets famous fucking. All right. That has got to be a very weird. Is that where the porn mustache comes from? Oh, yeah. God, it's huge. Oh, yeah. He had a crazy stache. 1947. Wow. What's he up to these days? He passed away. Did he? Yeah. When did he pass away? 1913. Wow. Didn't live that long. All that fucking wasted all his jizz. I bet he shaved off his mustache and he was just anonymous. He was just drifting out of traffic. Nobody even noticed him. You know? Right. Weird life, having sex with people on camera.

2:30:16Should we add that to the wall? Oh, look at that. Everyone's got arrested. When would he get arrested to? If we add it to the wall. Probably for indecent something. Yeah, we should add that to the wall. Memphis. You got to be up to some no good to get arrested in Memphis. What did he get arrested for? I'll see if it says something. Too much dick. It says his appearance in Deep Throat led to his arrest by FBI agents in Memphis. Wow. He tried to use a conspiracy to distribute obscenity across state lines. Whoa. Whoa. He called it forum shopping, but I don't. What does that mean? Forum shopping? For the real term for the practice of litigants taking actions to have their legal case heard in the court, they believe is most out to give them a good judgment.

2:31:00They're trying to get him convicted, I guess. Trying to make an example of him. So they found a court that would take the case. Like for obscenity? Yeah. How interesting. They overturned the Supreme Court. Miller v. California. Reims was granted a new trial. Charges were dropped in August. Wow. The defense argues the first act that ever would be prosecuted by the federal government for appearing in a film. It's like the Lenny Bruce is slinging dick. And then all these people got behind him. Very Shirley MacLaine, Warren Beatty, Richard Dreyfuss, they all got behind him. Jack Nicholson, Ben Gazzara.

2:31:34Wow. Dick Cavett. He was in Grease. That's the coach. Wow. He was in the movie Grease, the musical? What? In 1978? Out of fear his notoriety would jeopardize the film's block. He was replaced. Oh, he was cast and he was replaced by Sid Caesar. That's hilarious. Wow. After an eight year in 1982 after an eight-year hiatus from porn reams returned to the industry and performed in the film society affairs and Reportedly received a six-figure salary How weird back then? weird Is it the whole pornography thing is very strange? Cuz like people want to watch other people have sex because people like having sex but it's like but you can't talk about it but you know if you say you like it people like fuck is wrong with you and then they watch it but if we could destigmatize it and like not give people unrealistic ideas of what happens in the in the bedroom and and note it as something that is entertainment you know i think it's entertainment the fear is that the women that are in it they for the rest of their life they're always going to be thought of a certain way and the men skate They don't really have a, like, they're thought as seedy, but they don't thought as, like, you know, girls that got used.

2:33:00Well, I think what's going to get weird is AI porn because then you can watch porn and there's no victims, right? There's no person you feel bad for. Like, oh, that poor girl, everyone's going to know that she sucked dick on camera. She took it in the ass on camera. It's not a real person. So then maybe you can watch that and remove any kind of victim. Yeah. I don't know. People are fucking weird. People are weird. I'll tell you one thing I've never tried and I'm not going to. I don't want it. Nope. Not going to do it is VR porn. Because Duncan told me, dude, have you ever seen VR porn? It's fucking amazing.

2:33:38I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to sit there with fucking goggles on, jack it off. Joe hasn't left his house in about six months. I mean, you imagine you're watching porn and the people are fucking 20 feet high in front of you. They're bagging. And if you can move around in it, like you can move around in other VR, you can get really close to watch the dick go in there. That's one thing I haven't tried either. VR porn? Good for you. Stay away. VR in general is weird. You know what's really great, though, is VR games. Have you ever done any VR games? You know what sandbox is? You ever heard of sandbox?

2:34:16Sandbox, they have one in Austin. They had one in Woodland Hills right down the street from our old studio in L.A. And it is a place where you go. It's like a big-ass warehouse. And you go to these rooms in the warehouse, and they have fans set up. And it's all like these walls. Like it's all boundaries. They put a haptic feedback vest on you and goggles, and they give you rifles, and the plastic rifles. and then you get dropped into this virtual reality world where you fight zombies. Oh, shit. It's fucking dope. Dude, it's nuts. When the zombies attack you, they run at you, they claw you, you see blood splatter in front of your eyes, and you gun them down.

2:34:58It's fucking crazy. There's one called Deadwood Mansion. That's my favorite. And the Deadwood Mansion. There's a couple different Deadwood games. I think there's two or three now. I think there's three. I think there's three. There's three zombie games that you can play. That's in LA? Three different ones. No, it's here. Here? They have one in Austin. Oh, shit. Yeah, it's out at the Domain. Yeah, it's out at the Domain. It's fucking so fun. My family hates it because they get, like, sick, and that's all I ever want to do. So on Father's Day, I make everybody shoot zombies with me. Like, it's Father's Day.

2:35:35What do you want to do? Shoot zombies. Like, no. I'm like, come on. We have to do it. Yeah. Once you do it, it's fun. Father's Day is coming up. Tournament. Okay. At one point in time, I had the number three score in the country at killing zombies. Yeah, I went ham one day. One day I was just locked the fuck in. And the key is, I'm going to give you guys a pro tip. If you're doing Deadwood Mansion, get the shotgun. The shotgun is overpowered. The shotgun kills more things than anything else. It's way better at it. But the game is nuts, man. I mean, there's zombie rats that come running at you.

2:36:13There's fucking people that are attached to the walls, and they shoot down their tongue and wrap it around your neck, and they're pulling on you. Show them a clip of it. It's crazy. It is a fucking—it's really fun, dude. You'll love it. I'm going to tell you the band to do that. Yeah, that's what you could do. You could do it with, like, six people. We're always looking for, like, band activities. It's a good one. I bet they have multiple. I only know of these two, of Austin and L.A. The one I pulled up is in Atlanta. Oh, is one in Atlanta? Yeah, they have to have them all over the place. I don't know.

2:36:49I have no idea why it's not everywhere because it's so fun. It's one of the most fun things you could do with your friends. We've done it. My wife and I have done it on double dates. Like you go do that and then you go have dinner. It's great, man. It's great. It's really fun. They got a ton of locations now. Oh, shit. They're all over the place now. Yeah, that's great. See if you can find a video of Deadwood Mansion. Oh, Deadwood Phobia. Oh, that's the newest one. That's the third one. Oh, there's a Squid Games one. We've done that one too. The Stranger Things one. They have so many different.

2:37:25Deadwood Valley, that's another one that's really good. The Deadwood Valley one, do they have a? Yeah, there we go. So check this out. So this is what happens. You get dropped off into this city. And the zombies are there. And so this is you. It's cut between you with the guns and then this is what you see. This is what it looks like. But this is more like a video showing you what it looks like on the outside. But when you're in it, I wish they would show you what it looks like. That's what it looks like when you're in it. Oh, wow. And these dudes are chasing after you and you're gunning them down.

2:38:05It's really fun. But again, there's a bunch of games that you can do that

2:38:13Survive the horrors You got to save the heroes There's people in there that you have to save And there's other people that you have to kill It's dope It's really fun It's badass So that's a good use of VR Don't be looking at 10 foot vaginas Go kill fake zombies You get stuck on a train and as the train's running down the tracks, they're jumping onto the train and trying to get you. You have to gun them down. It's really fun. That seems like something I could get into. I never played any video games growing up. Really? Yeah, no. That's crazy. How old are you? 30. How's that possible? I mean, I just never had much interest in them.

2:38:54Like when I was young, I don't know. Do your friends play video games? Like the rest of the band, they all play. you know and you just say nope not interested i was just never really into it man well this is different than a regular video game like this is very physical like you're running around you're in a room that's bigger than this room and you have your haptic feedback you also have fans that blow air at you you know like see like if it's also to cool you off too because it gets hot as fuck and you're running around you got this vest on and when you get grabbed the vest vibrates so you feel it like that's sick oh yeah it's really fun but it's probably good that you never got into video games because they're so time intensive.

2:39:36They rob you of your life. You think golf robs you of your life? You don't have to leave the house to play video games. Look at Jamie over there. How often do you play video games, Jamie? Not that often. No? No. I thought you were a junkie. I actually haven't played in weeks. Ooh. Maybe. But you were hooked for a while, right? It's a fun... As I'm thinking in my head, I'm like, I grew up playing video games, but I also wish I was fucking sick of guitar. So there's a fucking trade-off there. And most people I know who are sick of guitar aren't good at video games or play them. That's a very good point.

2:40:09I did make, I made an effort like a year or two ago. I got a PS5 and I got Red Dead Redemption. I was like, I'm going to fucking do it. I'm going to play this game. And I just got, I was like, I feel like I'm just doing chores. And I asked my drummer, he was like, yeah, that's pretty much what it is. Oh, Red Dead Redemption? Yeah. You got to play something like a first person shooter. You know, play like Quake or something like that. What's the big first-person shooter that the kids played today, Jamie? I mean, Fortnite, really. Fortnite? Fortnite is still... Boy, Fortnite's been around forever.

2:40:42When my kids were in grade school, Fortnite was big. Yep, and they just made some weird... I stopped paying attention, but Star Wars is now in Fortnite, and the games that they made for Star Wars are just like, nope, it's just in this thing now. You can just play it in here. Wow, really? Yeah, and it's like they downloaded them. stormtroopers and lightsabers. Whoa! Yeah, my nephews are always hitting me for what do they call that? Like, Fortnite Bucks? B-Bucks. They want B-Bucks so they can play more. Yeah, there's Robux. My kids were always into Robux for Roblox, so you could buy things in Roblox.

2:41:20But apparently now there's like pedophiles have been gotten into Roblox. They try to message people. They ruin everything. They do. They do. Creeps ruin everything. But there's some very fun video games that you shouldn't ever do because it'll fuck with all the other things you do. Like not getting into golf, not getting into video games. Again, Jamie's dead right. That's probably why you're so sick of guitar. You can make a guitar gently weep. Well, there's other things like there's certain games we can play guitar, like Guitar Hero. That's not the fucking same. No, no, no, but having people learned how to play guitar, an actual guitar because of Guitar Hero?

2:42:02There's a game, there's technically a game, it's like a training aid called Rocksmith, which is the way it's, you actually have a guitar and it's plugged into it, not on run. That's cool. But a guitar hero, you're just hitting five buttons. Oh, I see. You're just matching red to red, blue to blue, and that's a timing thing, but no transfer. It doesn't – oh. But I would imagine that a game that would teach you how to play guitar with an actual guitar would be dope. Like if you get – like these games, like the sandbox game Deadwood Mansion, you get a gun. And if you got really good – like Staccato has a VR gun game.

2:42:40Staccato, they make pistols. And there's a VR gun game. And you get a plastic Staccato. And when you're playing this game, like you're actually pointing the trigger. And when you pull the trigger, there's actually like a muzzle jump. So your reticle actually jumps up and down a little. Your red dot jumps up and down a little bit. That would be exactly like it would do if you actually shot a gun. So they have to like recenter it. Bang, bang, bang. And so you could run around doing things and shoot stuff and shoot targets. That's here too? Yeah. But that's a game that you can get for like meta VR goggles.

2:43:17like consumer VR goggles. And so you doing that could get better at shooting guns because you're shooting a plastic. It doesn't weigh the same, but it's the same shape, the same form. It's a plastic gun. I mean, what they really should do is make one of those things with the weight of an actual steel gun so that you're accustomed to the actual feel of the thing. And then, God, why can't they do that? They should be able to do that. Maybe I'll talk to them. But if you did that, like that would be a skill that would actually transfer over. So if they could do that with a guitar, if they could figure out a way to attach like computer sensors to an actual real guitar.

2:43:59This is Rocksmith. This is a – there's levels of it. You can slow it down. And what are you playing? Real songs. You pick the song. They're all real songs. Right. But what is the interface? A guitar. Oh, an actual guitar. Yeah, it's plugged in with a USB cable to the computer. Oh, it's their virtual guitar? No, no. This is just, I showed you what it looks like on the game. Right. But it looks like an actual guitar. Whatever guitar you want to play. It's your guitar. It's not a fake guitar. Guitars are just things that vibrate strings and expel. Oh, dude, that's dope. And expel the digital sound thing.

2:44:42That is dope. That's actually pretty sick. After a while, you'd have to abandon that, right? Yeah, he's good at guitar. I mean... He doesn't need to learn this. Did you learn by lessons, or did you just learn by playing? So, initially, I just learned by just sitting around the house, watching cartoons, playing guitar. My grandfather would teach me something. He'd give me, like, a project, basically, or my dad would leave me a record to listen to, and it was just his old record collection. So a lot of Allman Brothers band, a lot of Skinnerd. Marshall Tucker Band, that kind of thing. And then I would just sit at home all day and just go over it.

2:45:21And then later when I was in high school, I studied jazz theory with Steve Watson. It was like a vocational school for the arts. It was called the Fine Arts Center in Greenville, South Carolina. And I'd go there in the afternoons and study jazz theory, which was really beneficial because it's good to put a vocabulary to the things that you kind of knew, but you didn't know how to quite name it. Just kind of learning the vocabulary, learning what things are called, and then expanding upon that. Music theory is a valuable tool. Yeah? Does it help you in writing songs? It can. it helps in like like in Nashville they use something called the Nashville number system so like you go into a session and like it's all based off of the major scale so like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 6, 7 and then the 8 is just the octave of the 1 right so they'll say like we got a 1, 4 5 you know and it just represents what the chords are yeah this is where math and stuff gets really interesting you go down this rabbit hole forever you could you could bring a terrence howard back in here honestly and then you could bring in ancient egypt and so this is all vibrations and you can probably translate hieroglyphs into some of this music theory stuff it's fucking weird terrence howard trying to find the one yeah like in a beat that's hilarious but the first time i used the number system with with our back oh really yeah because dan like his house man for a long time was the remaining members of the memphis boys who played on like son of a preacher man by dusty springfield oh wow and like uh suspicious minds that kind of thing uh gene chrisman was 80 years old playing drums um bobby wood keyboard player billy sanford and his second session in Nashville was Pretty Woman, and he wrote the riff.

2:47:36Oh, wow. So I walk in. I was early to the session, and they were finishing up their first session of the day, which was John Prine. Wow. And I walked in. It was just like, whoa. Wow. Dan was like, did Marcus get his ass in here and play some slide guitar? So they threw a chart in front of me. I just had to pretend I knew what was going on. That's where you've got to rely on your ear. Hmm. But it's conversational, too. Like, if you don't really know what's going on, like, you don't want to say much. You know? Right. That's fascinating, man. I'm scared of music. Not really, but I'm scared of practicing it.

2:48:17I'm scared of learning it. Because I just feel like it would be very rewarding. It is. And I'd get very obsessed. Yeah. Something to it. Yeah. Well, listen, man, I'm glad there's people out there like you doing it. man I'm just thankful well that's the best attitude to have that's what I think I think gratitude is the best attitude to have anyone that's doing what they actually want to do what's going to propel you forward and keep it going is probably gratitude just be happy that you're able to do one of the coolest fucking things in the world for a living kind of amazing and don't be an asshole don't be an asshole that's it you'd be surprised how hard it is to follow that one I know right a lot of people fail well thank you Marcus thanks for being here brother it was fun I enjoyed it thank you all for having me what's that oh thanks for having me anytime let's do it again alright bye everybody