#2517 - Taylor Sheridan

26:35Or Kellogg's, which is John & Johnson. How do we get people to eat our shit in the morning and then again at lunch? And then, well, the one thing that we can't control, and they talk about the one thing that we do not have is this massive industrialized meat production. Because there's no economical way to do it. They'd do it if they could. But Harris Ranch, which you've probably seen off I-5, in California is the closest version of that. But what it is is a feed yard, right, where you get them together and feed cattle for 90 to 150 days before you go send them off and slaughter them, right? That's the closest thing there is to an industrialized beef industry because it's a very inefficient way.

27:22It's way better to farm, right? It's more efficient to farm than it is grazed cattle. So you only want to graze cattle somewhere that you can't farm at the end of the day. You want to graze cattle or great at taking protein from poor protein sources and metabolizing it. So you graze them in real rocky terrain with native grasses that you can't farm. You can't till it. You just can't. And it needs to be eaten by something or weeds will overtake it. Grass grows better when it's being grazed. And so there's no way to industrialize that or centralize it. The most centralized it is is at the packing house, right, where you've got four major packing houses that control 90-something percent of the beef industry.

28:07And that's starting to change. COVID was extremely helpful for the smaller farmer and rancher to sit there and get their product out, right, and find small. They start popping up. people have opened these usda facilities that that don't process 800 head of cattle an hour they maybe do 50 or 50 a day and now people can go there because they're a usda facility they can buy beef directly from them buy it from the rancher right and you can control where your food's coming from as opposed to what what was happening um where you'd get a bunch of if you're going to go get a burger, you're eating some Australian killer bowl, right?

28:48For the most part, or something from Brazil, or you're not eating something that you want to eat, right? When you go to a nice steakhouse, the steaks there are, they're going to come from most likely Texas, Iowa, Nebraska, Montana. There's select areas where people are spending that kind of attention and time to raise that kind of quality of beef, right? And it's being done by smaller ranchers. It may be a big ranch, but it's still operated by relatively few people. You know, four sixes is 300 ,000 acres, but there's 12 cowboys. Wow, 12 cowboys for 300 ,000 acres is nuts. How do they keep track of everything?

29:35I mean, we break it down into pastures, and then you have, and then the pastures fall under, the terminology is this. Let's say, oh, if you're in Guthrie, there's a camp, and we call it South Camp because it's in the south, and it's responsible for 50 ,000 acres, right, which is broken down into multiple pastures that are between 7 ,000 and 10 ,000 acres. There's one big pasture in that camp that's like 14 ,000 acres. and so then you have North Camp you have what we call then we have camps around the town little town of Guthrie so you break it down into the responsibility of each cowboy's somewhere between 35 and 50 ,000 acres wow that's a hell of a responsibility yeah that's a lot of work man a lot of work you know what's really interesting about your shows particularly Yellowstone it got people like really attracted to the idea of brutal hard work as being romantic.

30:37Yeah. You know, people like really identified with those guys on Yellowstone that were just like so dedicated to that ranch, so dedicated to busting their ass and working all day, hard fucking work and then just hanging out together afterwards. And there's something about that life that's so simplistic and romantic to people that it just really resonated with so many people. They didn't even know that they liked that. Well, it's uniquely American, right? And the amount of freedom that is. So we move somebody out to South Camp and we go, okay, so here you are. There's your house at South Camp. See you in a week or so.

31:18Go figure shit out. Keep track of the cattle. And you give them a string of horses and they work their horses and they ride that property. They know every inch of it. And you don't ever, we don't have weekly corporate meetings. How do they get supplies? Is the house stocked in advance? Yeah, they go to town. You know, towns, which is an endeavor, right? Town's 90 miles away. So you go to town once a week, right? Stock up. Stock up, go back. Wow. Yeah, but it's... It's a crazy life. And people, not every, this isn't true of every cowboy, there's plenty of cowboys that typically they grow up on that ranch, and that's the life that they know, and that's what they want to do, right?

32:01but they still go off to college like almost every one of my cowboys has a ranch management degree like they went to school wow to study what's a good school if you want to be a cowboy i mean there's quite a few of them texas tech i mean that's a phenomenal ranch management program a bunch of the guys on the sixes went there tcu has a ranch management program a good one texas a &m um you know we have a we have vets that live on the ranch obviously we breed a ton of horses um and so our vets there's colorado state's an excellent veterinary school for large animal vets obviously texas a &m is a phenomenal school texas tech as well those are dude how the fuck do you pay attention to everything you're running a gigantic ranch and you have about 48 tv shows how the fuck do you do it i don't understand it i every time a new taylor sheridan show pops up i I say to my wife, I go, how the fuck is he doing this?

32:57Like, where does he have this time? Part of it is, if you think about it, so my crew, my core crew is the same crew I made Wind River with. Like, when we had no money. I remember one time, I'm on the top of a mountain with me and my first AD and my DP, Ben Richardson, and there's not a producer. We haven't seen anybody in a week. And I looked at, we're freezing our asses off at seven below zero in northern Utah. and I'm like guys you know we could just fuck off to Hawaii and nobody would know for a while we have what we have their we have their money and they don't know they don't actually know where we are they're just trusting that we're going to make this movie which we did um and it was incredibly difficult but that's the same team that went over and did Yellowstone which is then the same team that went up and did Mayor of Kingstown with me and then 1883 23 Lioness Landman all of them and we've promoted from within i've got pas that are now first ad's i've got uh camera operators that are now directors um so we've promoted from within so everyone understands the way we do it and it's so freaking efficient we don't ever have and you know because you've been in this industry forever these people will have meetings upon meeting upon meeting they'll have a they'll have a tone meeting where a whole bunch of people are going to sit around and try and talk about the tone of the script.

34:22What, didn't you read the fucking thing? We have to have a meeting about it? How about we don't have a meeting about it? And then they'll have a, they'll have a, and this is also networks. They love this shit so that they can have a reason for their existence, right? All these middle management people. And they want to do a prop show and tell where someone's going to come show them all the props that we're going to use. Really? Well, we don't do that shit because I'm like, I need your permission to use which Bic lighter I'm going to use in this fucking scene. how about I just make the decision and how about we use the same Bic lighter in all these fucking shows and I don't ever have to pick a Bic lighter again how about that so we just streamlined it and made it to where it's so efficient typically a tv show will start up and they'll prep for 12 weeks before they start filming we do it in four wow well that makes sense it makes sense that it's streamlined because i've been on shows when they first start out and it's chaos and there's a lot of network involvement and there's a lot of bullshit but then once it gets going they go oh you guys know what you're doing yeah leave me alone yeah yeah we're there from the beginning now that's beautiful we haven't missed if you don't miss right well it's like you don't miss like you don't miss with the writing you don't miss with the storylines like you don't have any duds man which is incredible it's an incredible accomplishment to have that many fucking shows and all of them be good.

35:45And all of them be very addictive. Landman is so addictive. It's that show. It's about something very serious and then I can just throw shit at it. Let's just take a bunch of old people to a strip club. Billy Bob is fucking awesome. He's a genius. I love that guy. He's so good on that show. It's like it was made for him. It was made for him. I mean, he's done so many things. I went to Billy Bob before I wrote a word And I told him, I said, if you don't do this, I'm not going to do it because I'm not going to chase my tail. He goes, well, what is it? I said, I want to do. I said, basically, I want to take your character from Bad Santa and put him in West Texas and run an oil company.

36:25He goes, you want the guy from Bad Santa to run an oil company? I said, that's what I want. He goes, that sounds fucking awesome. Well, it's educational, too. I mean, a lot of people like have no idea how the oil business works. And you watch that show, you go, Jesus Christ, what a crazy job. It's an insane job. And, and, and the other thing about it is we're so completely dependent upon petroleum in every single aspect of our lives. So completely dependent upon it. And we can debate how bad it is or isn't and, and, and, or not debate it. The reality is we don't have an alternative. Like it does not exist.

37:03It simply doesn't exist. And we could sit there and say, well, when did this? No, you sit down with any climatologist and any engineer, they're going going to tell you our best hope for a replacement of petroleum fuels is cold fusion and we're 30, 40 years from it being something that we can rely upon and reduce little nuclear reactors, like itty bitties, like the size of this coffee pot. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Once you've got a great name for your business, you need a great domain and Squarespace makes it easy to lock in a domain. You just search the name you want, buy it, and then you're ready to build.

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38:25Plus, there's coverage if you need to pay fees for lawyers and experts to resolve your case. Don't face the burden of identity theft alone. Protect your future and finances with LifeLock. Visit LifeLock.com slash JRE and save up to 30 % your first year. That's LifeLock.com slash JRE for 30 % off. Terms apply. That's what they're talking about. They're talking about like individual reactors that people have in their homes. I'm like, how long does it take before there's disasters? like that sounds fucking having a really good nuclear power plant for a city is an awesome idea having everyone have their own nuclear power plant sounds fucking crazy how many assholes are going to cut into that thing well people still put fucking metal in microwaves so I don't think we should be giving I've done it how bad can it really be there's people that leave their fucking gas on so that someone can die in the house people are nuts people are nuts if you literally have consumer level nuclear power plants not with these monkeys that's what not with the human beings that we are today our current form we're not enlightened enough to have personal nuclear power plants in our house oh fuck yeah so we're we're we're dependent upon it um that's why we're in iran right now oh yeah also because of israel but i mean we're we're in iran i mean the whole thing about it is the oil the strait of hormuz it's like i think it's 40 of the world's oil supply passes through there yeah christ no that's and and and i think also china it's a big play against it's a chess piece against china that's what i think yeah all of it's fucking terrifying what uh and i'm not saying we should have or we shouldn't have i'm not commenting politically but what those guys those sf guys did in venezuela was fucking gangster it's crazy whether i'm not saying they should or shouldn't i'm just saying right the team was sent and then the team i mean can you imagine if i wrote it in a movie people will go that's fucking ridiculous taylor right we don't have that tech fly a bunch of sf dudes drop them off on the roof of this high rise surrounded by the fucking cuban special forces and they're gonna kill all of them and then they're gonna fucking snatch him and his wife go back to the roof and just fucking fly away that's what they did and they're gonna do it with sound they're gonna disable everyone with a sound weapon like what like there was do you remember when they first started talking about that havana syndrome yeah we're dismissing it this is horse This is bullshit.

41:09Yeah. Like, no, they're talking about people that are in Havana, that they've been targeted, something zapped them. Low level frequencies that made them nauseous. Yeah. And I think that is a fraction of whatever they unleashed in Venezuela. Who knows? The discombobulator, that's what it's called? Classified secret weapon system. President Donald Trump claimed US forces used during the January 3rd operation to capture Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. He stated that the weapon successfully disabled enemy equipment and air defenses, preventing them from firing back. So it's both it disables the people and it disables their weapon system.

41:47What? That's amazing. What the fuck are we doing? Official silence. When asked for specific technical or operational details about how the device functions, Trump famously told New York Post, I'm not allowed to talk about it. he says they press buttons he claimed the defense forces press buttons and nothing worked disabling both Russian and Chinese made rockets and radar if weapon affected both mechanical equipment and personnel he also referred to it he also referred to a sonic weapon being used against Maduro's Cuban security detail inside a heavily fortified fortress fucking A man I would love to see what that looks like.

42:30You know, I bet they have video, too. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. All wearing GoPros. I'd love to go into a skiff. Just show me the video. I won't say no. I want to see what it looks like. I just want to watch. What does it look like when somebody gets zapped by sound and gets fully disabled? Like, apparently, they just fell to the ground in agony. They couldn't move. Yeah. And they just went in and shot everybody. And then some frickin' SF snipers are just frickin' on top of that, just raining down on them. Crazy. Crazy. Like, that guy thought he was safe. crazy and there's a famous video of him saying come and get me oh yeah bro yeah be careful don't what bear you poke yeah also it's like we none of us know what the tip of the spear technology in weapon systems is available right now we don't know they don't tell us they don't tell us obviously no one knew this fucking discombobulator thing existed this is science fiction yeah right if this was 20 years ago you'd be like that's not a real thing but now you're like oh shit they used it it's not just a concept they fucking used it what else what are that what are they cooking out in the desert in the middle of nevada who knows yeah i think about this for that to be used there's something four generations past that hundred percent that they're playing with now yeah a hundred percent you know this whole uap world stuff like when they start talking about UAPs, all of my bullshit alarms go off, all of them.

43:53It's like, I don't believe if you knew things you would tell us. So I don't believe you're telling us the truth. I think they have some special access programs that they've been working on for decades and decades and some super high level shit that involves some sort of novel propulsion system. And they have that stuff Flying around in the sky and I think that's what a lot of people are saying That's a lot of people are saying that doesn't discount the idea that there's something else out there because I think there is But I think there's a giant chunk of the shit that people are seeing that's ours.

44:28Yeah testing yeah Testing doing stuff with it if there was an intelligent life form that had stumbled upon our barbaric asses Why would they not go hey guys? Fire up that fucking missile and take we found this blue planet. We got to get rid of this thing Well, I think maybe every intelligent species that's tribal and territorial has to go through an adolescent period of their evolution. And if you look at human history, you know, I was reading about Vlad the Impaler last night. Jesus Christ. and how many of the Ottoman Turks that got killed and his famous methods of putting people on posts and separating them down the line on the road so that as these poor guys are traveling to go and fight him, they just see the enemy stuck on skewers and in geometric patterns and shit.

45:18He would do them in like stars and stuff. He was a vicious motherfucker. And he's the motivation behind or the inspiration behind Dracula. And I was reading about that guy. I'm like, fuck, people have always been awful. They've always been awful. But they just like, as time goes on, they get a little less awful. A little less. Like we're a little less awful now than we were during Nazi Germany. Not totally great. Not collectively. Right. Certain. We're still willing to do genocide. Some of us are. But it's less approved. It's less, more people are horrified at it. It's like human beings are getting a little bit better.

45:58It's not as quick as we'd like. I think if I was an alien life form, I would say you have to wait this out It's like if you have a kid you got to let the kid fall down Stumb stumble you got to let him get hurt. You got to let you know things happen You got to let him fuck up and figure it out himself. You got to figure this out make it right you fuck this up You got to give them a chance to become better, right? I think as a civilization I would think the same thing would apply you have to give this civilization time to evolve and adapt and get past where it's at right now. And I don't think that you do that by intervening and like grabbing us by the hand and showing us the way.

46:34I think what you do is you hang back and make sure that we don't nuke each other and just sort of pay attention to all the different international ongoings and just let human beings slowly but surely evolve. That's what I would do if I was an intelligent life form observing people. The interesting thing that we're as a civilization facing now, and it's always happened in some capacity when a society gets wealthy, really wealthy, and people start to question wealth and how can we be more equitable? And it comes across like compassion, but it really comes down to a debate of what is more valuable to a society?

47:18is self-determination more valuable or is equity more valuable? And by equity, what I mean is everyone gets exactly the same shit. Everyone. So you take them off of, we're not on a monetary society anymore. Now you're working for the collective and you're hearing that word thrown around a lot these days. The problem with working for the collective is who decides who picks up the trash and who decides who gets to Go represent your nation at the Olympics who gets to decide who gets to Is someone gonna let me go make TV shows which by the way I wouldn't do for free it's too fucking hard right? So now I don't want to do it Well, then you got to go do this one.

48:03I want to do that either And that's the problem and then they force you to do things. Yeah, and so they do that Yeah, so then so so the you either have self-determination or in your attempt to be collective you have to surrender that and then you're surrendering it to who and and now you have a dictatorship no matter what the fuck you thought you had yeah it always comes back to that it always you can you can look at marxism and leninism and what lenin was talking about his hopes whether they were his hopes or not. But it devolved into an authoritarian regime very, very quickly. And, you know, communism, socialism, fascism, Nazism, they're all very, very similar.

48:51The differences are superficial. I think Ayn Rand said that they're just superficial variations between the exact same thing, which is the evil of the collective. The evil of the collective and human beings desire to control their people. Yeah, they love to they and any time you give them a chance where they could feel righteous about controlling people They jump at it and they can they have an opportunity to classify people There's good people and bad people and the bad people you could do whatever you want to them. They're the other and that that happens with every every time Groups get into power like that and tell you what you can and can't do and you're seeing that being embraced shockingly more and more all over the world people are embracing more government power and more government control and it's really crazy it's really crazy to see it's unique i think that number one i think in 30 years when they look back like we're still suffering from a society from COVID, like still.

49:54And not so much from the disease itself, but from our faith in the institutions around us, whether it's government, whether it's the media, whether it's pharmaceutical companies. And the way that it was manipulated to gain power for a political group, and it was effective. and so when something's effective, then people just keep doing the same thing until it's no longer effective. Right? We did that in our military with the wins hearts and minds. Right? So that all comes from Japan. Right? We're gonna win the hearts and minds of Japanese. Well, the Japanese surrendered. Like their emperor who they looked at as a god, he told the people of Japan after we dropped two frickin' nuclear bombs on them, hey, we are gonna endure the unendurable.

50:45We are going to surrender. It's the only way that we can salvage our nation. So they willfully surrendered. And then our government goes, look how great this hearts and minds stuff's working. It's not working. It's not working at all. And then they tried it in Vietnam. Didn't work. Tried it everywhere else that we've had a conflict. We've tried it and it hasn't worked yet because what it was based on was flawed. Right. Because they they chose to be subjugated at that time. And and making that choice kept them an independent nation. So, our government, and it's so dangerous what we're seeing. You can like Trump or not like Trump.

51:28People are going to like presidents and dislike presidents. But now, defying the rule of law because he happens to be the head of the federal government and openly defying the federal government, The repercussions of that are going to be, OK, fine, you can't stand this man. You think he's a terrible president and you're not going to follow his laws. But that's the new normal now. So when a president gets in that you do support, then the other side, because we've established this precedent, they're just not going to follow his laws either. And now we've eroded the rule of law. And then what happens?

52:07The slippery slope is very dangerous. it's i mean i was saying that when the ice raids were going on because i was like okay i am not in favor of illegal criminals being in this country however we're setting a very alarming precedent where you have masked militarized police with no id that are running around the cities snatching people up like this this could set a precedent that could be used by the left, if they get into power for something different than just for ICE, we've already accepted the idea of militarized police on our streets and that people with seven weeks training, you're just sending them out to snatch up people.

52:53And a lot of American citizens are getting caught up in that trap too, unfortunately, and then they have to get released. Like that could be bad if the next party gets in. So if the Democrats get in next and they decide, like, maybe there's a new COVID strain happens, some new pandemic happens, whatever the fuck it is. And if you don't get the vaccine, they're going to arrest you. And then they start the same. Yes. We saw it in, I think it was Minnesota or whoever they had, the National Guard on the streets. But they had people enforcing lockdowns. And so they had people walking down the streets with fucking guns, yelling at people to get in your house over a cold.

53:34like this these kind of slippery slopes you might think no we're just trying to get rid of the bad immigrants i get it i'm with you i agree however the way they're doing it doing it i don't know i'm not even saying there's another way or a better way i'm just saying you want to get them out all at once yeah that's the way to do it you want to get them out quick that's the way to do it because they got them in quick you're right they opened the fucking border they helped people get in. But now that they're in, if you're going to get them out that way, you're setting a weird precedent. You're setting a precedent that could be used in other ways.

54:09Yeah. The challenge is, okay, we need to enforce the law or don't have them. They've enacted no new laws. These are the same immigration laws that were on the books when Obama was president and Clinton was president. The same rules. It's the methodology. and you gotta sit there and weigh the pros and cons about, okay, the pros of trying to eradicate this issue, you can't give it a deadline, right? It's slippery. It is slippery. And again, it's what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and these politicians right now who are doing all of us a tremendous disservice in Washington, I feel, our elected officials.

54:58Because they're not thinking beyond this next election. And maybe they never have. They never have. Right. But they were better at hiding it, maybe. I think there was no internet. But, well, true. I think that's what it is. There was no social media. But I think we've reached a point, as politicians talk about eliminating the electoral college, they talk about eliminating the filibuster, eliminate packing courts, all these things, because their side's not in power. And so we're just going to take the structure of the government and totally rework it to benefit us temporarily but then those same benefits that you have now will be used against you yeah they will 100 be used against you i think the most important legislation that we can pass right now is term limits i think i think 12 years tops in congress and i think probably 12 years in the senate two six-year terms in the senate that's more than enough time yeah that's a lot a fucking time.

55:53That's enough. We don't need anyone else. I mean, I don't know how it's become. How the fuck is Nancy Pelosi worth$400 million? How the fuck? Well, I know how. Yeah, she gets in on all these fucking IPOs. Exactly. Right. She's going to pass the legislation that allows Visa to go public, and then she's going to get a big chunk of it, and then when she's confronted about it, look a reporter dead in the eye and fucking lie to him. I don't know what you're talking about. I didn't do that. We know you did it. We could look at how much stock you own yeah fucking liar they all do it yes they get people are calling out rocon on twitter today fucking rich everyone's getting rich yeah they get paid 175 grand a year and they're all fucking millionaires super millionaires they're all like and like she's intensely wealthy that's that's a that's a almost a half a billion dollars that's nuts as a public servant that's nuts yeah it's it's insanity and it's um you know that's what we're used to we're just we we just we know it's bad and we just accept it and people are busy and they have families and mortgages and shit to deal with and so they complain and they keep on trucking yeah i mean i have as we discussed i have other jobs i don't have a pile of time to dedicate to it's tough for me to talk politics because i don't have hours in my day to sift through what's real and not real on instagram or social whatever i'm not on that shit but but i can't it's hard to form an opinion because man And I don't know.

57:16And I don't know where to go to get honest news. Not the news. I know that. I can't turn on the fucking news. Because they've fucking been lying to us. They stopped being, I don't know if they were ever impartial. But I know that. I remember there was a guy. I was a kid. He was running for president. His name was Jack Kemp. I remember Jack Kemp. And I want to say it was Dan Rather. It may not have been. It may have been some other newscaster. And there's a debate amongst all these different potential candidates for president. And. And as he's introducing all of these various politicians, he's saying so-and-so Harvard graduate and law professor from here and this former senator and this and that and the other and this person here and they get to Jack Kemp and he goes, backup quarterback and born again Christian Jack Kemp.

58:13I'm like, wow, you just sunk that dude. Everyone else you gave what their jobs were and talked about their accomplishments of this. You just said he didn't start at quarterback and he's you call that his religion, dude. and that's the first time I ever remember I'm like I know your opinion I'm not supposed to know your opinion you're supposed to be giving me news you're supposed to be giving me honest unbiased information so I can make a decision and you're making a decision for me or trying to and they've gotten so as news became entertainment I mean CNN's the worst thing that ever happened to news because it's 24 hours and now all of a sudden there's not 24 hours worth of news all the time right There is during a war, right?

58:56You can show us war footage the whole time and talk about the war and why war and why no war. But when there's not, you've got to make some shit up or push an opinion. And that's where we've gotten with news now. Now news is piss them off and scare the shit out of them. That's how we keep them watching. And that's the business model. It is now. And it's also piss them off and scare the shit out of them, but ignore certain things that your sponsors wouldn't like you to talk about. Oh, yeah. This is why, you know, Tulsi Gabbard in her final act as director of national intelligence as she's leaving, she had that she gave that press conference about Fauci.

59:36And she talked about how he lied in front of Congress and that he absolutely used American tax funds to fund gain of function research through EcoHealth Alliance and to the Wuhan lab in Wuhan, China. And, you know, no one's covering it. This episode is brought to you by Visible. How many of you are currently listening to this podcast on your phone? If you are chronically online, like most of us are these days, your wireless network should be too. With Visible, you get unlimited 5G and unlimited hotspot, all powered by Verizon's 5G network. The perks of big wireless for half the cost. Visible isn't just a wireless plan.

1:00:21It's unlimited wireless designed to keep you connected and no contract holding you back. Switch today at Visible.com. Plan start at just$25 a month. Or get our premium Visible Plus Pro plan and save$10 on your first month when you use promo code ROGAN, an exclusive offer for podcast listeners. No. And by the way, didn't we all know that already? Well, we knew it, but my parents didn't. People that just read the newspapers and watch TV, they don't know. I've never seen anything as flagrantly obvious as COVID coming from the Wuhan lab studying COVID. Right. I've never... You've got fucking news anchors keeping a straight face saying, it came from the wet market.

1:01:19Did you ever see Jon Stewart's bit on it that he did on the Colbert show? No. You never saw it? No. Oh, we need to play it. Let's play it because it's so funny because Colbert tries to stop him from doing it and push back. And Jon, he's a great comic. He just gets up from his chair and gets louder and just plows through it. Really? Over Colbert's trying to cock block his bit. It's a funny bit. And he's getting in the way. Oh, I'd like to see. If you have information on that, I'd like to see it. And he just keeps going. He keeps plowing away. It's very funny. And it's in the middle of it, right?

1:01:50This was a courageous step because he was doing this when calling it out and saying that it came from a lab in Wuhan, China was somehow or another conflated with racism. Remember that? Yeah. If you said it came from Wuhan, China, from a lab, you're a racist. Yeah. Like, how did you pull that off? Like, how did it – it's like no one's saying anything. It's racist. It's from fucking China and it seems like EcoHealth Alliance funded it. And it seems like we funded EcoHealth Alliance. There's a lot of fucking paperwork. And by the way, there's studies on the fucking disease that they've been doing that are posted on the CDC website.

1:02:28They're posted on the fucking, my favorite was when you catch all this shit about ivermectin. And literally when that happened, I went, oh, look that up. Look up ivermectin and studies with ivermectin. And a study pops up on the CDC website while people are telling us to not take that shit. And it talks about the efficacy of ivermectin and antiviral properties, specifically COVID-19. So it's on the government website that the fucking drug works while they're telling everyone to not take it. And they're mocking me for taking a horse steam warmer. Watch this. This is great. This is great. No, you stop because he still wants to put out that establishment position.

1:03:14I'd like to see any evidence. If you've got any evidence.

1:03:20Yeah. Well, wild times in the news, because I think from then on, that sort of sent a shockwave through the majority of the population where just whatever trust they had in the news just got severely eroded. And if we don't have good news, if we don't have trust in the news, then we're kind of adrift. And then you get locked into fucking conspiracy theories and eco chambers online and you can get trapped in them, too. And that's not good either. Yeah. Then then there's nowhere to go get information. Has anybody in NBC, CBS, CNN, have any of those people picked up on that Tulsi Gabbard speech about.

1:04:01Fauci and had any sort of a reaction to it I'd like to know that because from what I was reading online no none of them had but this was as of yesterday I don't know whether or not that's changed I don't know if like they were preparing an article and they wanted to make sure that they got all their ducks in a row I would think pretty much any time the head of an Institute is begging for a pardon when he hasn't been charged with any crime is a pretty good indicator. You might want to look and see if there's been a crime committed. Was he begging for a pardon? I mean, he got - Yeah, Fauci. Fauci was like, he had attorneys, this is part of that deal.

1:04:42He had attorneys reaching out to Biden's camp the last day when he got the pardon. Jeez. The very last day. Jeez. It's just a preemptive pardon is nuts, especially when when Rand Paul's questioning him and he's talking to him about specifically about what what defines gain of function research. And by all account, by every definition, it's gain of function research. And Fauci's still saying, you do not know what you are talking about. With all due respect, even though even though he's a doctor. Yeah. Rand Paul's a fucking doctor. He's an actual doctor. And then they say, well, you're an eye doctor.

1:05:20Well, that's my specialty. But before I became an eye doctor, I became a general doctor, which means I studied all the same shit that Fauci studied. You had to go through medical school before you go pick a specialty. So four years of studying the entire body before you specialize in whatever you're going to specialize in. Well, it's also then if you read RFK Jr.'s book, The Real Anthony Fauci, you find out he ran this exact same playbook during the AIDS pandemic. It was the exact same playbook. That's what the Dallas Buyers Club is about. The Dallas Buyers Club, that McConaughey movie about AIDS, the fucking villain is Anthony Fauci.

1:05:57He's the guy that's stopping them from getting alternative medications. That's the guy that wanted everybody to take AZT. You know why? Because AZT had already been approved. They had already used it as a cancer medication. It was a chemotherapy medication that they stopped using because it was too deadly. It was killing people quicker than cancer was killing them. So the first medication they gave people when they had an immune system that was compromised was a chemotherapy medication that was killing people. And they were giving it to people that were asymptomatic. They were giving it to people that tested HIV positive.

1:06:28And then you know about the PCR testing. So the PCR test, Kerry Mullis, the guy who invented PCR testing, said publicly about Fauci, he does not know what the fuck he's talking about. I don't think he said fuck, but he does not know what he's talking about. And that it's not supposed to be used to detect a disease in a person's body and that if you ramp up the cycles long enough just like they did with covid where we got some by some estimations 80 percent false positives because the PCR method because they were ramping them up so high. And so they cut it back quite significantly and that reduced the amount of false positives they had.

1:07:02But there's a lot of people that got tested as HIV positive that probably weren't. And they put those fucking people on AZT. And AZT kills you. Wow. Yeah, nuts. Most mainstream outlets are treating it as a serious but unproven political bombshell. They're reporting that Gabbard alleges what Gabbard alleges, stressing the documents are disputed and under review and highlighting how polarized the reaction is. Mainstream print, Jerusalem Post, Money Control Newsweek summarize her accusations, emphasize that COVID's origins remain unresolved. And note that the claims about Fauci sparking COVID or lying under oath are heavily contested, not yet legally validated.

1:07:50Many stories frame this as reigniting a long-running fight over lab leak versus natural origin. That fight is over, kids. That fight's over. If you are in the news and you are saying that there's still a long-running controversy as to whether it's a lab leak or natural origin, shut your fucking dirty whore mouth because it's not. The fight's over. It's a fucking lab leak. They say the new documents will need independent scrutiny from Congress, investigators and scientists before any firm conclusions can be drawn. OK. Right leaning media highlight her file dump as vindication for critics, focus on the cover up narrative and give prominent space to Republicans like Rand Paul.

1:08:37Why does it more centrist or mainstream outlets present it as a straighter news tone, often pairing Gabbard's and GOP's quotes with Fauci's past denials and nothing there is so far, no judicial finding, a perjury or criminal conduct? What I've never understood is how this became a left or right. So stupid. When when Fauci, who's a career bureaucrat. Right. Through. I mean, when all this started, there was a Republican president. Yep. Right. And then he's he served that Republican president. He served the Democratic president before that and before that. And then he served a Republican. I mean, he's been there for fucking 50 years.

1:09:17Yeah. It's been this dude. It's not political. It shouldn't be political. There shouldn't be a right left side of this. It's, hey, a career bureaucrat fucking lied to us. He used the exact same language when he was talking about AZT as a medication for HIV that he used for the COVID vaccine. The reason why it's the only medication is because it is both safe and effective. The guy's a monster. He's one of those guys throughout history where you're going to look back over time and you go, holy shit, this one guy's lies. This one guy's aspirations, this one guy's career fucked so many people over.

1:09:59Yeah. And I don't understand why Democrats would want to fall on that sword with – there's no reason to align. Because people are stupid and they just decide that because a Republican is a president and anything the Republicans are pushing has to be bad. And that stupid fucking division, it's so silly. It's so silly. It really is because the same people during Trump's presidency were openly saying, are you going to trust a vaccine that's created under Trump? They were all saying it. Kamala Harris said it. A bunch of Joy Reid said they all said it. And then they then they bet their entire political livelihoods on it.

1:10:42We deserve better. We really do. Or we don't. Maybe we don't. We fucking think they're good. We're so silly. such a fucking silly group of human beings we are. That's fucking wild, man. Not all of us, though. You know, I think less of us now. I think it's going to be way harder to divide people the way they divided everybody in 2020. It'll be way harder now. I think most people are just not buying it. And as long as people wake up to this left versus right nonsense, it's really just a big fucking hustle to keep you fighting with each other. Oh, for sure. That's most of it. Oh, for sure. Most of it.

1:11:17Even the ice stuff that we were talking about. Hey, folks, do you think it's a coincidence that the biggest fucking ice protests were all going on in the same place where they found all that fraud? Did it ever occur to you that these organized, massive protests were all occurring in the same place where that Nick Shirley cat found fucking billions of dollars in fraud? Yeah. Shocker. Kind of crazy. Didn't they pass didn't California pass a law? A Nick Shirley law to prevent that that specifically that guy from fucking poking around in California. Yes, yes. I mean, they've even referred to it as the Nick Shirley law.

1:11:57The idea is to keep people from investigating fraud, which is outlandish. That is outrageous. That is a crazy thing to emphasize. And the thing is, well, you know, these people are showing up at daycares and looking in. Right. They shouldn't. You're right. 100 % and people random people from the internet should not be showing up at daycares with cameras I agree however when there's no one in that daycare for years and years and years and they can prove that fucking millions of dollars are being earned by that daycare and there's no one in there it gets a little weird isn't there a isn't it's not fully passed into law not yet isn't there a video of that kid like walking up to one of these and these dudes get out and like drive off in their fucking bentley's i don't know if those are real there's a bunch of fake videos that were made by people afterwards that were just capitalizing on people wanting to click on something like that and so they were just engagement farming by pretending like the guy would show up and they'd go what what are you talking about i don't know i have no idea what it's bad acting and they get a Rolls Royce like it's just bullshit it seemed like bullshit to me I mean I'm sure a bunch of those guys made a bunch of money and I'm sure there is a lot of fraud just like they're admitting it Minnesota's admitting it they knew it was going on forever you know and then how about the fact that there's certain politicians that voted against this idea so one of those ladies that was killed.

1:13:28Like there was a lady and her husband that were murdered in Minnesota. And she was one of the few people that voted against providing Medicare for illegals. They were trying to, they were trying to pass some bill involving Medicare and illegals. And she was one of the ones that voted against it. And she was killed. The guy who killed her said that Tim Waltz sent him to kill them. Now, I don't know if he's full of shit. He easily could be. He's a fucking crazy person. He's a murderer. He showed up at their house with a mask on and fucking shot them dead and shot a couple other people, too. It's like he's, you know, obviously he's fucking cracked out, but kind of weird, kind of weird that the lady who wants to vote against this obvious fraud, this money that's being somehow another funneled around through Medicare like one of the things that Elon said when he was on the podcast is that Medicaid and Medicare fraud is one of the biggest fucking problems and he was looking into a doge he goes I almost don't want to talk about it because I don't want to get killed he goes it's that bad and this was before all this Nick Shirley shit and now you're seeing it you're like oh now I get it these hospices that they have these fake hospices in California and then these all the Somali daycare centers and all the different things like these people just make autism the autism diagnoses went through the fucking roof because now they can have these autism centers so they just diagnose their kids as autistic and then they're raking in all this money for treatment it's crazy how much fraud there is hundreds of billions hundreds of billions of dollars and just what a shocker that that's the place where the big ice protest broke out oh people forget that this episode is brought to by eight sleep.

1:15:17Okay. When it comes to sleep, I've got to have the right temperature dialed in, depending on the time of year that might be ripping hot. I'm talking volcanic or igloo levels of iciness. The point is I need the temperature to be just right so I can get deep sleep, the kind of sleep that drives real recovery. And luckily eight sleep is all about giving you the best sleep possible. Their new Pod 5 Smart Mattress Cover is designed for deep sleep and personalized for you, automatically regulating the temperature on each side of the bed in real time. Why? So you and your partner can consistently hit your ideal deep restorative sleep range and wake up feeling truly refreshed and recovered.

1:16:03Use my code ROGAN at 8sleep.com slash Rogan for up to$350 off the Pod 5 Ultra. The best part is that you get 30 days to try it at home and return it if you don't like it. But I got a feeling your body will love your investment in better sleep. That's code Rogan at 8sleep.com slash Rogan. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? ZepBound Terzepatide may be able to help. Z-Bound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off.

1:16:46Z-Bound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. Z-Bound contains terzepatide and should not be used with other terzepatide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if ZepBound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop ZepBound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction.

1:17:24Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia, if you're nursing, pregnant, plan-to-be, or taking birth control pills. Taking ZepBound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbounds.lily.com. When Obama was president, he made a big public statement about going after government fraud. They were aware of it then.

1:18:03I mean, they've been aware of it for it's always taken place. But on the scale, and he tried, and he caught resistance to the point that he wasn't able to do his version of a doge, which was his intention. He gave a big public speech about it and tried to look into it. And if you're stealing hundreds of billions of dollars, hundreds of billions of dollars, what wouldn't you do to protect that? Exactly. And that was Elon's point. Yeah. And also, that money for sure makes its way into Democratic coffers. And probably Republican, too. And whoever the fuck is going to be. Whoever's enabling the fraud.

1:18:43Yeah. Who's ever going to help out? Whoever wants a piece of this pie is a juicy-ass pie. It's a$100 billion pie. Come get something. that'll almost bill you a rail system in California. You can get a mile of track. Or a second cougar bridge. From the fucking car salesman. Have you had that guy on? No. No. He wants to be on. Oh, I'm sure. He talks a lot of shit about me. At first he was saying, Joe Rogan's not a fan of me, but I'm a big fan of him. He was like saying all this. Doesn't he have his own podcast? Yeah. Because that state is running so well. The governor doesn't need to govern. He's got a lot of free time.

1:19:14It's so smooth. If you ask him, he'll tell you. He'll tell you how awesome this state is. Oh, he'll give you stats. The stats are incredible. People are moving there in record numbers. Yeah. That's not true. It's not true. It's the all the stats, the positive stats, they were already going on before he was the governor. It's it's California is an awesome place. The fucking weather is perfect. San Francisco has always been an incredible tech hub of geniuses. There's always been a bunch of super wizards up there that are creating some of the best technology in the world. And that has nothing to do with him.

1:19:45has zero to do with him and all these problems that their inept government has caused because that's the real problem with him as a governor it's a real problem with karen bass as a mayor it's a real problem with whatever the fuck happened to san francisco it's bad government it's not upholding the rule of the law not keeping people safe being empathetic to people that are shooting up on the street over people that are trying to walk their fucking kids to school yeah like what you're doing is bad for society it's bad and and it seems to me that for the most part for the most part if you are the mayor of a city and and when i was writing yellowstone the the governor of montana at the time who was a democrat i i called him and asked him uh i said hey guys talk to you about what it's like to be a governor like what did you think it would be and what did it turn out to be.

1:20:40And what he said was, Steve Bullock is his name, he said, well, I thought I was going to make all these changes and do this and shepherd this. And I learned that I am the CEO of a state and that my job as the CEO of the state is take care of the people who live in the state, the employees of the state, attract business here, attract tourism here, and try to make the state make more money and make lives better. That's my job. Infrastructure and city management and people management and tourism. That's my job. And to a, even more acutely to a mayor, you're really the president of a city or the CEO of the city.

1:21:25And your job is keep the lights on, pick up the trash, put out the fires, deal with the sewage, keep it safe like that's it there's no social anything secondarily possibly but run the schools like run the city and and you have in a lot of these big urban areas where they're so agenda driven and they're they're pushing a social agenda and they're not running the cities they're not running them at all and so they're running into the ground and it's tragic to see because San Francisco, like you said, it's a beautiful city. L.A. used to be a place where you could go and make your dreams come true.

1:22:05San Francisco was awesome 10 years ago. Just 10 years ago. I filmed my special, Triggered, in the Fillmore, in San Francisco in 2016. It was great. No problems. It wasn't homeless people everywhere. It was normal. It was normal San Francisco. Go to a cool restaurant. People are cool. Always been like a smart city. interesting architecture always been a great city i lived there from the time i was seven to eleven right yeah i loved san francisco unrecognizable now 10 years that's it 10 years of fucking asinine government and also this homeless thing when you realize that it's an industry when the homelessness is valuable having homeless people on the streets is valuable because you can get more money to deal with this obvious homeless problem.

1:22:57The more obvious the problem is, the more money they're going to throw on it. They don't have to fix it. Well, there's no intention to fix it. Right. No incentive. They're giving out free needles. Here. Yeah. Get high. Here. And I was just somewhere where my first experience seeing the homeless in this magnitude. and the one thing that's evident instantly is they're all so completely strung out on drugs like this fentanyl thing is no fucking joke like the zombies leaning against every corner and and and to me it's cruel right yeah like if if someone's to that point you and you want to help them don't give them a fucking iphone and some more needles how about you pick them up off the street and you take them somewhere and go look there's a curfew here and you ain't doing no drugs right we're gonna clean you out um and and some aren't gonna want that they're gonna want to go back on the street and do drugs and and the addiction and the consequences of drugs that are that i had surgery they put me on fentanyl i had neck surgery and they put me on fentanyl there's high then there's that shit and that was done by an anesthesiologist i wasn't self-medicating on a fucking parking lot, right?

1:24:13What'd you get done to your neck? C67. Fusion? No, no, no, no, no. I had the... Dissectomy? The disc, yeah. Just cut some of it down? Yeah. It's okay now? Yeah. How long ago did you get that done? Was that maybe three years ago? I wish I told you. Yeah, three years ago. If that ever happens again, don't do that. Don't? No. Well, it'll happen again. Yeah, I'm sure it will. There's other ways. There's a way, yeah, there's PRP can help it. Regenikine helped mine. I had a pretty bad bulging disc in my neck. What's Regenikine? Regenikine is, they used to have to go to Germany to do it. I know Peyton Manning went there.

1:24:50Kobe Bryant went there. And Dana White actually flew to Germany to get it done. It's like an advanced form of platelet-rich plasma where they take your blood. There's a process to it. Pull it up, Jamie, because I can't remember what the process is. But they spin it in a centrifuge for like 10 hours. and then you come back the next day and they inject it and it makes this very potent anti-inflammatory and they inject it around wherever the injury is to the disc. And it provides like within weeks amazing relief. And for me it completely cured it. I had a point when my fingers were going numb. Yeah, that's what.

1:25:28German, go back up. Back to work, yeah. So German physician Dr. Peter Welling, The treatment focused on blocking a specific inflammatory protein, interleukin-1. So they take the blood out. They draw your blood, and then the blood is heated to body temperature to trigger the production of a natural anti-inflammatory protein called IL-1RA. And then they spin it in a centrifuge, separating out the protein-rich serum. The serum is then injected directly into the painful joint or tissue. dude is remarkable for me for uh knee injuries i did it a bunch of times i used to do it at they they moved it you used to have to go to germany and then santa monica they opened up an office it's lifestyle medicine that's what it's called right um and then um that's where i had it done and you it's incredible like it i had it done my entire back like there's a picture of me on the on instagram with a bunch of these fucking tubes and that's me right there a bunch of those tubes my hairy ass back and uh it was incredible i mean it really fixed so many problems that i had it's uh really great for specifically for back injuries knee injuries stuff like that there's a lot of good biological options there's also decompression is very important i have a harness that i attach to a pull-up bar and it straps under my chin and i just like let my weight drop down and decompress my weight on my neck.

1:26:58I do that every day. And I also have this thing called a Dex 3. Is it Dex 2 or Dex 3? You hang forward. It's like Teeter makes it. You know that company that makes those decompression tables? But this one's even better because you just hinge from the hip. So you're not supporting it at all with your legs. And it's just your back. It just goes like pop, pop, pop. Like you can feel it. I need one of those. I'll show it to you. We have one out here. We have two of them out here actually. Really? Yeah, in the gym. It's there. They're the shit. I have one at home. I don't I will not not have one. I have to have one It's so good for just decompressing your back You need to decompress the neck to anytime you're doing anything if you're dead lifting or squat Obviously you're lifting a lot of heavyweights if anytime you're lifting way you got to think all that All that pressures on your back all that Squashing down and you got to do something to stretch it out now stretch it back out But there's ways to heal it now without taking away the disc So the problem is every time they cut away a piece of your disc.

1:27:54You got less disc. You got less disc. Yeah. So the good news is there's some treatments that they're doing now where they're actually injecting some sort of a hydrogel. I've heard about this. Into the disc itself. So I asked Brigham from Ways to Well about that and they're looking into it and they're trying to. Apparently this is not being done widely yet. This is like this is just experimental. But they think they're going to be able to do that. There's also some places like CPI, Cellular Performance Institute down in Tijuana. They've successfully been injecting stem cells into people's discs.

1:28:30And it causes a disc to regenerate tissue and get thicker and healthier. Yeah. Shane Dorian, my friend, he's a pro surfer and big wave surfer and bow hunter. He went down there and he said it was remarkable. He said within a couple of months, like a 30 to 40 percent increase in range of motion. Really? Decrease in pain. Yeah, you could feel it. It's kind of an annoying process because once you do it, you can't really do shit for like six weeks. Like once you – I think it's six weeks. Well, that's the same with the surgery. You're not doing shit for six weeks after that. But you can't lift weights.

1:29:02You could walk. You could walk. You know, it's a whole thing. It's like let everything take. Like let it take. Let it heal up. Don't do anything stupid. Don't re-injure it. Don't aggravate it. Like give it a chance to actually do its magic. Yeah, I'll look into that for sure. but any neck injury or back injury they're such a motherfucker anytime your back goes out everything you do is like it's so hard to do anything it's like you realize how nice it is to be healthy whenever you get hurt yeah back pain, that's what killed my stepfather back pain? did he just get on pills? yeah I have a friend in the family that did that I remember one time we were fishing up in Wyoming and he just, he was like, I can't do it.

1:29:49Back hurts too bad. And he went in and had a surgery and made it worse, which is a real, real risk when you start messing around with the spine, right? And so, yeah, and then it was, you know, those are serious pain. Now we're talking oxy. Yeah, now you're in just agony all day long. Now you're on a clock. Yeah, and you can only do that shit for so long. Yeah, now you're on a clock. oxys are fucking terrifying they're so terrifying yeah so terrifying how readily they were handing them out too forever yeah do you ever see painkiller that the peterberg thing that he did for netflix no i didn't fucking great man so matthew broderick plays such a great creep oh he played the sackler brother the sackler really yeah the head of the family that started this whole opiate problem that we have in this country it's fucking terrifying because it's all real and those fucking people never even went to jail who knows how many people are dead because of them yeah yeah they generated fucking billions and billions of dollars killed a bunch of people ruined countless lives how many lives people that were connected your dad gets hooked on that shit it ruins your relationship with your your family you you wind up being all fucked up because you grew up with a dad who was strung out on pills no no generation yeah generational damage oh god And these guys put their feet up.

1:31:14Yeah. They go to a fucking nice country club and have the lobster. Yeah. Cocksuckers. There's so many of them in this world. There's like, that's genuinely evil. Yes. There's real demons. That's a real demon. Like people want to think demons live in hell and, you know, that's kind of may or may not be real. No, they're on earth. There's demons. They're right here. Yeah. And they justify it. They figure out a way to justify it. And they're around a bunch of other people who justify it too. And they can just immediately dismiss any pain or suffering because they got a huge amount of profit from it.

1:31:51Yeah. Yep. Those are the fuckers. Those are the fuckers. Yeah. They're out there. And it doesn't take many of them to create like real carnage. I mean, think about that. Think about the opiate issue in this. And it's still going. It was the gateway to fentanyl, right? If you think about it. Yeah, it was the gateway to fentanyl. And it was also, it's like they were doing those pain management centers down in Florida where they just, all they prescribed was pills. So you would go and like, I'm in pain. They were like, oh, Taylor, we've got the solution. It's right next door. And you go right next door to their pharmacy.

1:32:28And all their pharmacy has, like they don't have Bengay over there. They don't have toothbrushes. Oxy. Yeah, they've got Oxy. Here you go, buddy. This is the solution. Fucked. Yep. Yep, that's the real drug trade. Mm-hmm. Yeah, right? Yeah. I mean, the cartel is basically getting the scraps. They're making trillions of dollars off scraps. Well, think about this. Did you even know what fentanyl was 15 years ago? I never heard of it. No. I don't even remember when we first heard about it, but when we first heard about it on a podcast, we were talking about it, and we found the amount that's lethal, and they showed it next to a penny.

1:33:04And they're like, what? Yeah. That can kill you? And people are taking that? And they're mixing that in cocaine? Holy fuck. And they are bent over zombies on the side of the road. Yeah. Philadelphia's bad, too. There's a bunch of cities that are just real bad with it. And it doesn't have to be that way. And what's interesting is this Ibogaine initiative that Rick Perry and Brian Hubbard are pushing in Texas. And that I went to the White House to get Trump to be involved in. And they're trying to make this so that it's you have a right to use or right. I think they call it right to use a right to try for people that are addicted.

1:33:43And they're trying to make it more readily available and accessible to veterans. That's the thing that could help all these people. What is it now? Ibogaine. You don't know what that is? Ibogaine is a it comes from the aboga tree in Africa. And it is this very potent psychedelic that has no recreational use at all. It's not fun. Nobody likes it. It's not like you trip, you see zombies and fucking hang out with the aliens. Uh-uh. You go into this very dark experience for like 24 hours where it like replays your life to you in a very uncomfortable way. And also somehow or another rewires addiction in your brain.

1:34:22And for a large percentage of people, just one dose is good enough to get them off of everything, whatever they're on, whether it's alcohol, gambling, Coke, whatever the fuck it is. But for two doses, when they do it twice, it's significantly better. And it doesn't just do that. Rick Perry, who was the Republican former governor of Texas, was staunchly anti-drugs. He's said this is his main focus in life now is to promote this. This is his goal in life because he did it and he had an incredible reaction to it. And he knows so many veterans who have done it. It's incredible for PTSD. Somehow or another, it has neuroregenerative properties.

1:35:02where he went there and they said he went to his doctor before and you know doctor did a whole scan of his body and he said look you've got a certain amount of age-related brain atrophy it's like it's fine but you know it's normal that you're 73 years old or 74 years old so he goes and does the ibogaine sees his doctor a short time afterwards and the doctor says it's 25 percent less atrophy than when you got the last scan and he explains to him the whole ibogaine thing he goes back six months later it's all gone he has no brain atrophy anymore which is bananas so it's regenerating brain tissue it's making his brain work better and it's just pharmaceutical companies aren't gonna let that shit out well they're they didn't like it they didn't like that i bypassed them and went straight to Trump and told him about that, but Trump was very open to it.

1:35:57He said, what are you looking for? You looking for FDA approval? Like, let's do it. Like, that's literally what he said. And then a week later, we were at the White House and he was signing it. So it's incredible. But if so many veterans have had to go over to mostly Mexico, but Costa Rica, there's a bunch of different places that they go where they can have these Ibogaine retreats. And these guys have had incredible results. Marcus Luttrell, he had an incredible result from it. He had a real problem drinking. You know, obviously he's the guy, Lone Survivor, the movies based on his experiences over in Afghanistan.

1:36:32So this guy, you know, he's done it. He's gotten over it because of that. Like there's a long, Sean Ryan, long list of guys who have had this experience and it completely changed them. Dakota Meyer did it. So many of these guys did it. And because of their stories, because all these veterans, then it kind of opened up the idea to a lot more right-wing people that would maybe be more hesitant to accept something like this. Then on top of it, no recreational use. No one's like, boy, I can't wait to do that again. Everybody's like, holy shit, this sucked. I had diarrhea. I threw up. I was horrified for fucking 12 hours.

1:37:10It apparently just takes you through every aspect of your life like review like a movie all the times you've ever hurt people You see it from their perspective Like yeah, it's like very it's a very dark experience for a lot of people Especially a lot of people that have fucked up a lot of their life, you know Wow, yeah, but if those people had access to Obigene all these homeless people that you see strung out if instead of just giving them needles in an iphone and like profiting off of it if somehow or another these assholes can figure out a way to profit off of these centers we could bring people in and give them ibogaine retreats maybe that would be a nice little fucking exit strategy for all these grifters that have been profiting off of the homeless industrial complex for so long yeah well you know they're not trying to solve problems no no they're trying to make money that's what i was saying earlier when we're talking about charities that's the saddest thing that i have come to the realization that most non-profits are fucking scams like most of them most of them and this guy was like reading off like the average amount that these people that are in charge of the homeless program in la are making it's it's extraordinary amount of money it's a great living they're not doing it because it's like some sort of a very charitable thing that they really want to save the world and help people.

1:38:30No, they're making tons of money.

1:38:36They're performative entrepreneurs, if you think about it. Come up with a problem, then go pitch some version of Karen's solution to a government and take the fucking money and never solve the problem. Because as soon as you solve the problem, and if you do somehow accidentally solve it, then go find another one. Yeah. And I think that's one of the reasons why shows like Yellowstone in particular that show like people that are proud to work hard and really get like deep satisfaction out of that life. And there's something about that that really resonates with people. Like there's a better way than just bullshitting people.

1:39:18There's a better way than fraud and nonsense and all this political horseshit that's pumped down your throat every day. No. How about a fucking – just a sleeping bag and the stars? How about that? Just lying there with your horse tied to a tree? Isn't that really what everybody wants? Doesn't really everyone want to cook their dinner over a fire and laugh with all their friends? Because that's what they really want. That really sounds good. Just something simple. Something real. Something that's like, it's not that simple because it's hard to do all that shit. But there's something about it that's pure.

1:39:53It's pure. There's no ifs, ands, or buts. You spend a lot of time outside, right? And the entire thing is an endeavor, right? If you go bow hunting, you're going to practice, prepare before you go. then you're going to hike your ass in somewhere you have to set up a camp and all of these are tasks before you've even gone to do the thing you went there to do which is going to be another task but the completion of them is the reward yeah and the fact that you're doing it yourself everything done yourself i think that's and that's why people are so attracted to the life that's why i've got you know third generation cowboys that went and got a degree in ranch management to come back and make, you know,$3 ,000 a month and couldn't be happier.

1:40:37It's wild, isn't it? It's really wild when you think about it. It's wild what people actually gravitate towards. Because they say that, have you ever seen that Werner Herzog documentary, Happy People? No. It's called Happy People, Life in the Taiga. And it's all about these trappers that live on the Taiga River in Siberia. and all these people do is trap and hunt and fish. They don't have any other way to make a living. That's all they do. And they're so fucking happy. And they're all laughing together and drinking together and hanging out with their dogs and their dogs are sled dogs. And so they're on snowmobiles and the dogs are chasing behind them and the dogs hunt with them.

1:41:18And these fucking people have like zero mental illness. And when they're talking to them, they're talking in Russian, so it's all translated. But what they're talking about, like the way they talk, it's like that this is how you're supposed to live. This is real life. And they're all happy. There's a guy. I'm going to get his name wrong. It's like Preminger, something like that. And he. In the 60s. Dick Premakin. Premakin. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. The guy who lived in Alaska. Yeah. Yeah. Went up, said bucket. Yeah. went up into the way into the wild and built by hand a cabin and lived there and documented it, brought a little Super 8 camera or whatever, filmed the whole thing and filmed himself.

1:42:06I mean, he lived for 35 years. He was 80 something years old when he finally was too old to get through another winter when he came down. And he just built this cabin and just lived. Yeah. Hung, fished, grew potatoes, had to build. There he is. Brenneke. Proneke. That's how you say his name. P-R-O-E-N-N-K-E. If you haven't watched that documentary, it is fascinating. It's amazing. Yeah. Look at the difference. What is it? I don't know how much you did it. Oh, this is they've. Just talking about it. But why did they show 2023?

1:42:42This guy, when he documented all of it, you know, it's so attractive. There's something about the way he's living. And he's by himself, which is also wild. Like, how do you not get lonely? No, there's that. I mean, I'd lose my fucking marbles. I need people. I need to talk to somebody. I don't think I'd be liking that. No, no, no. But it's so attractive. But the notion of that kind of self-reliance. Yeah. No, there's something about it that's, like, deeply ingrained in our DNA. It's not just that. It's like a healthy interaction with the wild world. There he is. Look at that guy. made all that shit himself that's what's crazy the whole thing he made his own tools it's really wild wasn't he a lumberman or something like that I can't remember if he was look at how fucking pretty that is my god this is right in front of his house he just built a house out there Alaska's amazing man I mean the winners can suck a dick but just the actual being there in the place and the people are they're clearly like extraordinary people like when you go just even hanging out in a bar in anchorage like you guys are different they're like more reliable you know no matter where sturdier people no matter where you live in alaska you're gonna have to be tough yeah you have to be and they were laughing about some guy who got stomped to death by a moose because he was throwing snowballs out in town like okay like that's something you guys have to think about you you might get stomped to death in front of the atm machine or maybe maybe don't throw a snowball at a thousand pound animal yeah well you can catch a cow with their calves and she'll stop or what so it's a book uh prenecke says he turned his back on a tedious on tedious 50 hour work weeks and moved to alaska to do a thing to completion he built the cabin when he was 51 and lived there for more than 30 years.

1:44:48Wow. Wow. Where is that area, the Twin Lakes in Lake Clark National Park? I don't know. There's another guy that lives up there that lives near the Arctic Circle. Vice Guide to Travel did a piece on him years ago. It's the same kind of deal. He lives in a cabin, and he's been up in that cabin since the 1970s. He never saw 9-11. He saw a photograph of it years later. He's just been up there in the woods. All he does is he hunts caribou, and he has them all, like, hanging up, like, frozen because it's frozen outside. Like, that's his outside is his cooler. And while they're there, a grizzly tries to steal his stash, and he has to shoot the grizzly.

1:45:32It's like, it's crazy. Really? What's that called? It's called Vice Guide to Travel, and it's Heinmo's Arctic Adventure is the video series. and what's interesting this is like the early days of vice when vice was really cool and they get this fucking nerd with glasses probably from like williamsburg who flies out to alaska to hang out with this guy and uh the guy they said like these journalists were like hardcore these young kids were they knew they were doing something kind of crazy and they would go to war zones like that's how tim pool started out these guys would go to the fucking war zones and get shot at they had bulletproof vests on and shit and they'd be doing investigate like real investigative reporting and so this guy did just really went up there and hung out with this dude in alaska for like a week and was talking to him was like what's what's so great about this and he's a very intelligent guy he's not a the guy who's this this guy hindmo see if you can find that do you find it i was looking around there's a i mean they're still posting stuff they've there's a the last alaskan excuse me, Last Alaskans.

1:46:39Oh, he's still posting stuff? They have a YouTube channel. Oh, wow. Hymo and Edna. Oh, wow. He looks older now. They're just talking about podcasts here a second ago. Oh, interesting. They're talking about podcasts? Our podcast. Oh, because we talked about them? I don't know. I mean, I just saw as you were, your picture popped up. Oh, that's it. That's me talking about them. Yeah. See if you can find the vice guy to travel because that's where I found out about him. So this guy, he's like one of the last people that's allowed to live up there. He has like a notice posted on his cabin because he's grandfathered in.

1:47:16I don't think you could build a cabin up there anymore.

1:47:21That's not – this is afterwards. 15 years ago. Might be it. But I think it's called Heinemann's Arctic Adventure. yeah hymo hymo korth hymo's arctic refuge that's the article yeah I mean the vice website isn't really one of the most well kept things on the internet these days um

1:47:50put in arctic adventure I'm guessing that the article was the first thing and then they went and followed up to make a video and that's what this is Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, maybe that's it. Yeah, see, it presents High Most Arctic Refuge. Right. That's probably it. They could have just changed the name on YouTube also. I think they did. Or maybe I remember it wrong. Either way, this guy's premise is that this is really how you should live. This is how people—yeah, that's the guy. So you see this nerdy cat? He's hanging out. He looks so out of place. Yep, this is it. and he's got this uh caribou that he shot and they're hanging frozen and he just saws off a piece and throws the frozen steaks onto the grill cooks it over wood and this is how this guy lives and that's all he eats he's just eating caribou and salmon and he lives up there all year round man and it's uh i mean he's just very happy and that this is the weird part about it is how happy people who live like this are.

1:48:57Because I think that's in our brain. That's how we're designed to exist with nature. We're designed to be hunter-gatherers. We still have the same DNA as people that lived tens of thousands of years ago. And cities started, what, maybe 10 ,000 years ago in some form, right? Yeah, depending on who you ask. I think we're a little wrong with that, too. I think they're starting to change their perspective of when actual civilization emerged because of stuff like Gobekli Tepe in Turkey. They found these immense structures that are 11 ,800 years old that were buried that this guy who was like – I think it was a sheep herder in the 90s found it.

1:49:40Really? Yeah, he found like a stone that was like sticking out of the ground weird and he kicked it with his boots like knocking some dirt off. And then he brought in some archaeologists and then they discovered this massive complex, these like huge circles of giant stone columns of 3D animals carved in them. And they carbon dated the ground and it was intentionally covered up somewhere around 11 ,000 plus years ago. So they're like, really? Yeah. So like, what the fuck is this? Like, they didn't even know, like, what the civilization was. Like, why did they build this? What's the purpose of it?

1:50:11But there's a lot of people that debate whether or not what's depicted on it is a calendar. Is it a marking of an event? Does it show the flood? Like what is this? It's weird stuff, man, like really weird stuff. And I think there's more of that than you'd like to – that makes people comfortable. And archaeologists are very hesitant to accept it. Well, that whole deal, right, like your relevance being upon you discovered this thing. Yeah. When they found the Clovis point. So then we're dating everything off of that. And anyone finding anything else is going to render that guy's discovery less important.

1:50:50Yeah. And, you know, at one point we thought there was this logical evolution of man from Homo erectus into Homo sapien. And now we know that there were at least four, maybe five species of humanoid living at the same time. At least five. Not only that, it's like really difficult to make a fossil. Most people are going to die and their bones are going to be gone within 100 years. Yeah. It's just what we've been able to find and we're basing an entire science upon incredibly incomplete discoveries. We're basing an entire science on a very limited number that can even possibly exist. Like I think if you take into account how many dinosaur bones they've found and then how many dinosaurs existed and for how many hundreds of millions of years dinosaurs existed.

1:51:41And you realize like, oh, like most shit doesn't make a fossil. So we don't even know how many different dinosaurs that we've – I mean they just discovered a new one recently. We don't even know how many existed that we never found fossilized. Yeah. If they didn't run through some lava pit or tar pit or something, how would you know? And every so often some new form of ancient human pops up. And we're like, oh, well, what's this one? What the fuck is this one? There's weird ones. They're all over the place. There's a fucking ton of them. The Denisovans. The one in, I believe it was in China, the big-headed people.

1:52:16They're quite a bit larger. These are in Texas. Yeah, that's Glen Rose. Dinosaur Valley State Park. Wow. That's Glen Rose, Texas. That's crazy. How crazy is that? Look at those footprints. That's so nuts. That is so nuts. The dinosaur leptos. How long ago? 113 million year old dinosaur tracks. What the fuck, man?

1:52:45And, you know, we're just lucky. So what is he, what, that thing and how much did it fucking weigh to imprint into that, which is now granite, right? But at the time, it's probably some mixture of mud and ash from a volcano that came together. Right, probably. Some version of that. Right. I wonder what the animal was. Do they know which dinosaur it was? There's a picture of one here. I don't know if it's the one. I guess that's the one they assumed was there. God, those footprints are so dope. That's so wild. I wonder who the first guy that found that was. It says it was discovered after a drought, so it would have been...

1:53:20Oh, that's even cooler. So it was underneath the water the whole time, and then they're like, holy, the river dried up completely in most locations, allowing for more tracks to be uncovered here in the park. Wow, that's sick. That's the animal? Believed to be. I don't know yet. They wouldn't know for sure. Belonged to two types of dinos, including acrocanthosaurus. Yeah, I don't think they've found any fossils or anything to be. for the record. That's even crazier, right? All you find is the feet. Think about how many died there. Think about how many just got eaten by other animals and shit out.

1:54:01I mean, most stuff that lives, I mean, you know as well as anybody, you very rarely find skeletons in the woods. No, the mice are going to eat them. Yeah, something's going to eat most of what you find in the woods. Within a couple of years, everything's gone. But like, when was the last time? if you're a hunter, good luck finding a dead mountain lion. They must die. They must die. I don't know anybody that's found a dead one. I've never found one. I've never seen one. There's thousands of them. They die. Where are they? Fucking nature takes care of everything. And that's what would happen to most fossils.

1:54:36Yeah. That's why most fossils don't happen. I mean, when people die, they don't get fossilized. This picture says in 1908, a local school boy found some of these. Wow. Look at the size of those next to that dude. That's crazy. Just imagine you ran home and tried to tell your parents, they wouldn't even know what dinosaurs really were, I bet, back then. How would they have known? Well, there's a lot of people today that don't even think dinosaurs are real, which is hilarious. There's so many knuckleheads online. But, I mean, we have a very limited amount of information that we're basing the entire history of Earth on the planet.

1:55:09What do you describe that as in 1910? Three-toed giant? lizard? I don't even know what you're saying. How would you even be sure that that was a footprint? Come look at this, and then you've got to go tell everybody else in the town to come follow you out there to find it. Right. In 1910, did they even have drawings of dinosaurs? Well, I would think they would have found some of the bones. I'm sure. I think we figured that out, right? I think we talked about that. Didn't they first start finding them in the 1800s? Isn't that what it was? But, yeah, it's not. I mean, if you think about how many different things died and just were absorbed by the earth, just eaten shit out, swallowed up, just destroyed by time and erosion and never became fossils.

1:55:53We're basing the entire history of the planet on a limited amount of information. And that information, it never gets younger. It always gets older. The more stuff they found, like they found a modern version of human beings that pushes the timeline of humans back another three or four hundred thousand years. And that keeps happening. Well, they thought that people crossed the Bering Land Bridge 12 ,000, 14 ,000 years ago. And now they've pushed that back 10 ,000 years. Yeah, they found those footprints in White Sands, New Mexico. And those are 22 ,000 years old. It took a giant flood to come wash away layers of sediment.

1:56:34Oh, wow. That's why it's so muddy around it, I guess. Wow. And then they started digging. That's fucking cool. That is so cool. And this is in 1952 they did that? No, no, not 1908. 1908? The pictures are from 1952 or something like that. Oh, okay. They must have just kept, maybe it flooded again 50 years later. Floods do happen here fast. When did they first figure out dinosaurs? Like, what was the first year a dinosaur bone was discovered? On your ranch, do you find, like, a lot of, like, arrowheads and, like, Native American stuff? The one I grew up on everywhere. Yeah? Every time it had rain, you'd find these points.

1:57:18That just enthralls me. It's so fascinating. You pick up some arrow. I found one in Nevada while I was on a mule deer hunt. I was in the high desert. We found this little tiny thing. I looked down. I go, oh, my God, it's a fucking arrowhead. And you just think some dude, who knows how many hundreds of years ago, shot that at a deer. Thousands. Yeah. We found a bunch. And my mother took them to Fort Worth to the museum. And they dated them. And they could look at them. And they'd know various styles. And they go, oh, this was made by, this is 2 ,200 years old. This is 4 ,000 years old. This is when they started doing this.

1:57:56We have one here. It's a big one too. 1677 was when the first scientifically recorded dinosaur bone was described. Although it says they've been digging, people have been digging them up for thousands of years. They didn't know what the fuck it was? This one says he even thought it belonged to a giant human. This is one from, oh yeah, look at that. Yeah, a friend of mine got that off of his ranch. Remy Warren told me that's probably one they use for fishing because it was so big. Interesting. Yeah, I thought so too. I was like, that's interesting. Because I guess when you're dealing with old bows that didn't have a whole lot of power, you really wouldn't want a big wide cut because you wouldn't get enough penetration to get through the ribcage unless you were really close.

1:58:42So this would be more on a spear? No, it would be on an arrow. It would just be something that you shot at a fish because it's easier to penetrate than, like, say, a buffalo. Right. Where they would use a smaller head. They're just trying to get penetration. That's fascinating. It's just an amazing thing. You're finding just this piece of ancient history where people had no internet, no books, no nothing, just flint napping and using tendons and shit. Sat around. Yeah. And then trying to practice with those bows and figure out how to do it while you're on horseback, too. That's wild. It's crazy.

1:59:24So where you grew up, on the ranch you grew up, you'd find them all the time? All the time. What was the oldest shit you found? Man, I can't remember. But I remember it being thousands of years old, a few thousand years old. But we had a, like my mother had this wicker basket that was like this big. And it was full. Of arrowheads? Yeah. Wow. You'd find them, just toss them in there. That's crazy. It just makes you think, like, how long did people live on that land? How many hundreds, thousands of years did people live on that land? Yeah. Yeah. And or pass through or have battles or who fucking knows.

2:00:09Yeah. Or when you find them like we found them, I mean, every single time it rained, there was this stock tank behind our house and maybe it's half a mile up to the stock tank. we walked that road and you could find four or five. So was that a trading depot? Was that some place where people went to trade? And then I always think, like, how do you lose that many? Right. As hard as they must be to make. Right. You'd think once you've shot that arrow, you're going to go look for the arrow. Yeah. Because you spent hours making this tip. They must have shot so many for so long. I mean, they're probably shooting them every day.

2:00:50They probably had somebody back at camp making them every day. Yeah, there's probably some guy that that's his skill. Yeah. Maybe when people got older, they couldn't hunt, couldn't run. Right. You know. Maybe. They sat back and. Right. Yeah, and that guy makes the arrows, and maybe somebody else makes the bows, and this guy's going out and shooting the deer and bringing them back. When you're doing a show like 1823, how much research did you have to do to try to get that right? Because that was, in my opinion, one of the best theatrical things that I ever watched, movie or television show, that I feel like nailed what it must have been like to try to travel across the country, to be a civilized person living in the city, and try to make your way across the country and just experience the wild shit those people saw.

2:01:39Well, there's a few things. So a lot of research. But interestingly, I had my family had come one side of my family had come from Kentucky to Texas in the 1840s and whatever great great grandmother journaled. Wow. So I had the journal. Holy shit. And then I started finding other journals. There wasn't, you know, some were published. And reading about just how fucking dangerous it was. If you think about it, rivers were the most terrifying thing, crossing rivers. Because no one swam. No one could swim. and most of the most of the people who came into either the port of new orleans or galveston they were european they were german a lot of germans there were a lot of um central europeans that came uh and and they were promised free land right there would be travel agencies that they would arrange the entire trip with before they've even left germany or croatia or wherever they were and uh and so by the time that they landed in galveston they would meet up with their group and the group would you know they'd have chipped in all this amount of money and they've got guides and they would have already arranged for mules or horses and and wagons and uh and off they go and they had no idea no and a lot of them had never fucking ridden a horse in their life.

2:03:16Much less fired a gun, much less, they're in a completely foreign area. Like they don't, and they landed in Texas, most of them heading to Oregon because that area was the most similar to where they were from in Central Europe. And then, you know, for whatever reason, they didn't, some didn't get that far. Some maybe never got past Waco or Fort Worth or wherever. And then off they went. and the dangers were from obviously rivers and sun exposure, disease.

2:03:52Obviously there were issues with bandits and the Native American tribes, depending on the time of year, the era, right? By the 80s, that was largely not an issue, the 1880s. But bandits sure as shit were a real issue because there's no rule of law. Right. Right? And we can look at, there's plenty of bad people doing awful shit today, and we got all sorts of laws. Now imagine if those people had the wherewithal to go to a place to where there's no laws. No law and no enforcement. No help. No nothing. You're on your own. You're on your fucking own. And there was a bunch of people that had been living like that for decades, just fucking people up.

2:04:33Waiting for you. Just waiting for you. Waiting for you. Here they come. Let's get them. And that was what their thing was. Yeah. No, so river crossings were incredibly dangerous. And then trying to, if you didn't have an experienced guide, you're fucked. Truly fucked. Because you could pick the wrong way and run out of water. Go wander around in the circle. You get up there on the Great Plains to where it's flat and you don't know how to read the sun. You don't know where you're going. People go out there and make giant circles. Yeah. I was reading something about that the other day, that people tend to, for whatever reason, always walk in a counterclockwise direction when they get lost.

2:05:17And that even if they're left footed or right handed or left handed, it doesn't seem to matter. Humans, when they walk, if they get lost, like in the woods, they walk in circles and they almost always walk in a counterclockwise direction. And so this article was explaining that if you find yourself lost and you think you're running into the same places, most likely you should veer towards the right because you're most likely looping towards the left for whatever reason. People tend to do that. I wonder if there's like a scientific explanation. Put that in perplexity. See why people move in a counterclockwise.

2:05:58It didn't come up a thing. complexity doesn't know shit doesn't have any crap woodsmanship i never understood getting lost in the wilderness i didn't understand it really i can understand not knowing where you are but you know but i never understood getting lost do you well you must have learned how to use a compass early yeah or the sun yeah right if the sun comes up in the morning and you're facing it right then behind you is west to your left is north to your right is some people have zero experience in the woods though. People tend to loop often counterclockwise when lost because small errors in our internal sense of straight ahead accumulate.

2:06:35And humans also have a subtle left turn counterclockwise bias whose exact cause is still unclear. Isn't that weird? Wow. That's so weird. In lab and field experiments, blindfolded people tend to walk straight without landmarks, almost always end up curving into large loops instead of moving a straight line. People told, rather, to walk straight without landmarks. Wow. Wow. This happens because without internal clues or external clues like the sun, distant objects, or a visible path, small random errors in balance and body feedback build up until the path bends enough to close into a circle. Wow.

2:07:14That's got to be so disheartening. You've been walking for days, and then you pass the same dead tree, and you're like, oh, my God. We walked in a fucking circle. Pedestrians everywhere exhibit a counterclockwise bias, wired to walk counterclockwise. During COVID, scientists studying social distancing noticed that people seemed to prefer moving counterclockwise. That's so weird. Tendency is fundamentally individual rather than a collective. What does that mean? So every individual does it, I guess, rather than a group of people just following the leader. Pretty wild. so when people get lost but some people have just zero experience being in the woods at all and they just don't know where to go where are we and they just they just fucking freak out and then they panic because they think what's out there oh my god I'm gonna die yeah and you realize that once you're out there that nature doesn't give a fuck if you make it no it doesn't care at all no it's heartless completely oblivious to your desire to stay alive it's not interested in what you want to do at all nope nope not at all it's ambivalent but that's also part of the beauty of it right yeah when you're out there especially if you take yourself seriously yeah you're out there you're like oh i ain't shit it'll it'll test you yeah when you're writing a a thing like 1823 like you're doing all this research and you read the the diaries from your you said your great-grandmother like great great great grandmother did you uh did you ever think like putting some of those letters online so other people can read them no there's plenty of there's there's any number of published books of very similar journals i know but it'd be kind of dope for people to read about your great great grandmother yeah nothing happened right like it sucked it was cold we had freaking whatever weird shit they had for dinner that night and you know so and so was rude and you know it was this and we you know we stopped in this beautiful valley and it was hard to get across the river and i was scared and you know but no attacks no it was pretty uneventful they got lucky it's just it's interesting just as a window into time yes you know well what's interesting really is how well written the journal was.

2:09:43Right? Because everyone... Was very educated. Yeah. Was better educated. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, that's weird, right? When you read like Civil War letters and you're like, why are these guys so fucking smart? I have letters from my grandfather who died in World War II, love letters from him to his, to my grandmother. Years of them. because, you know, he enlisted in 1941 and then went off and became a... They flew a... I guess it was the B-19. They flew a bomber. And, yeah, and wrote all these letters to her. Yeah, and I have all those in there. Just magnificent. Just the way that people would...

2:10:31Just be so eloquent in a letter to, you know, your wife. Yeah, my beloved. They would write things like that. It is weird, like the deterioration of our ability to express ourselves, the common person's ability to express themselves. You wouldn't have expected that back then, I bet. If you could tell people about the future, go, oh, you're going to have the answer to any question on your phone. You have a small device in your pocket. It also acts as a flashlight. You're going to be able to pick that thing up and ask it anything you want. And instantaneously, it's going to give you a result. But, oh, people must be brilliant.

2:11:08No, no, they're half retarded. Because they didn't learn anything. Right. Right? You can ask a machine. The machine's done all the learning. You just get an answer that you didn't earn. Right? That's the word. Earn. Yeah. Yeah. Just like equity. The problem with equity is you didn't earn it. Yeah. The problem with having the same results as everybody else when you don't put the same effort. People in the 1800s often spent blocks of time typically one to three hours at a stretch on letter writing and Heavy correspondence could easily spend several hours most days Wow, most people treated correspondence as a regular daily or weekly task Similar to a modern email block accepting that it would be take a significant chunk of their time Wow I mean how important was the fucking mailman back then?

2:12:03everything the guy was everything everything some dude on a horse with a fucking bag of letters

2:12:10nuts for a quarter i mean how much did they charge a quarter was a lot of money back then probably was less than that probably half a penny or something if they had a well they did have a half penny how much do you enjoy writing that kind of a show versus writing a show like lioness or like Landman like what is your do you have a favorite or do you like all of them no I can't say I have a I have a favorite necessarily you know the fun thing about Lioness which is sort of I can't say it's ripped from the headlines because I don't I've tried to be I've tried to guess what's gonna happen politically and then fictionalize that and the fact that I've managed to be right it's pretty fucking wild i thought surely in season two when i when i when i said that the cartels had been listed as terrorist organizations i'm like this this could be my 18 month cancel vacation coming um and then it fucking happened and then it came out and you know the show came out within weeks of that and and i looked i looked really like a soothsayer um so that it's a lot of fun because it's so political and it's not, it doesn't choose a political side.

2:13:27It just looks at the trade craft of espionage and how it's, it's intermingles with our military and, and, and it's just fascinating shit to me. Just fascinating. But there's so many different things that you have to be aware of to write the shit that you write. You know, like, um, is the Harrison Ford one 1923? That one is fascinating too. Cause you got the guy who goes off to Africa and, And, you know, and he comes back and you got all these people that are trying to steal land. So it's not totally lawless, but it's on the border of lawlessness. Yeah. You're you're you're watching, you know, Montana in the 20s was fascinating.

2:14:05It's a fascinating place because you've got the 20th century, the Industrial Revolution in full swing. And you have washing machines and refrigerators and telephones and electricity. And then you still you're still traveling by horseback. Yeah. So very, very interesting. and so that's a really fun thing to explore. That one dude who was the evil rich guy on that show? Oh yeah. Fuck, he killed it. Tim Dalton. Oh my God, that's right, Tim Dalton who was Bond at one point. Yeah. Crazy. Yes, yeah. My God, did he play a good fucking creep. Twisted. So good. Yeah. I forgot that it was Tim Dalton. That's how good it was.

2:14:46Yeah, my wife watched that and looked at me like, how'd you think that shit up, dude? Like I got the side eye for a couple of scenes where she's like, bro, what are you thinking? Yeah, there's a couple of scenes I wondered myself. I was like, this is rough. I was like, that's evil. Some of the S &M stuff is like, Jesus Christ. But there's people like that in the world. 100%. Yeah. I'll tell you what, my computer, I just assume that the CIA and FBI have like a whole team because the shit I look up when I'm researching, I'm like, how to make a bomb. SNM practice. CIA hot regions in the Middle East, and it's all at once, right?

2:15:30Yeah. Yeah, there's no way they're not looking at your phone. No, they're looking at it going, Taylor's writing something new. Look at this. I think anybody that has any influence, they probably look at your shit no matter what anyway, which is also dark. Like, we don't even know how much actual, real spying on people is occurring. We're just guessing. No, we don't have any idea. I think within the world of tradecraft, a tremendous amount. Oh, yeah. I think within the world of, I mean, within that world, I think. When you're writing that, how difficult is it to really keep your finger on the pulse of what's actually going on with espionage and like what tools they actually have available?

2:16:13Are you making some up? No, I mean, most of the, I mean, I'm sure there is some extremely high tech tradecraft going on, right? For sure. Tracking devices and various things, satellite imagery, facial recognition, all of these things. But a lot of it's also very low tech by design because it's harder to trace, right? And it's a lot of leverage and manipulation. You're either bribing someone with money or blackmailing them. And that's typically, those are the two tools that are being used the most in tradecraft and the spy game, right? That's really, it's leverage, leveraging individuals. And they're all doing it, everybody, right?

2:17:02Every single. and then if you look at some of the and again i'm not getting on any completely apolitical but from a tradecraft standpoint what the massad was able to do with all those fucking cell phones and pagers and shit like nuts you want to talk about play the long game like build this dummy company sell all these get all these devices to all of these people who are your enemy and start setting them off years later to detonate? Insanity. I mean, it's genius. It really is. Insanity. Not endorsing it, but just saying. No, but if you - The actual act of doing it? Incredible. To look at the patience and the planning and the risks and that they were able to execute that is shocking.

2:17:54When you saw that in the news, did you think if I wrote that no one fucking buy it? Dude, I do that all the time. The Maduro rate if I had written right right. No, right. They'd be like that's too simple. Fuck out of here. Somehow it goes down. Yeah, even the bin Laden ready to helicopter crashed Yeah, yeah Yeah, the fact that they were able to and I know it wasn't as as smooth as it was led on to be. But the fact that no one died, not an American invading the Venezuelan military base in the middle of Caracas, it's fucking insane. It seems like it went pretty smooth. Do you think it went less smooth than they're saying?

2:18:38I'm sure that there's elements of, like, I'm sure, right? I don't know how any, the one thing I've learned with all my research into the military is any of these operations. there's a there's actually a line in in the upcoming line is where someone says did it go smooth and the guy says well smooth as these things go right right because that's because just by the very nature you start sticking a bunch of people in helicopters with guns and you know shit's gonna happen all right um but the fact that there were no casualties that no one was killed no american was killed is incredible yeah it is incredible it's pretty groundbreaking like this is a like a new benchmark for what could be possible in terms of an invasion at least of a third world country just shocking the difference in the technology that the United States possessed versus them well and whether or not they were even available that's no new brother that that stuff was available yeah war is gonna change very very quickly with drones AI and drones are going to alter the landscape of war.

2:19:43We're getting real close to some Terminator shit. Yeah. And I'm not saying that like it's a good thing. No. It's a very, very... You talk about adolescence of us as a species. We're seeing an adolescence in the teenage years of a new type of warfare. And when it grows up, it is going to be a beast. A beast. And I just think about it. You can, you know, now they've got drones that are the size of airplanes. They can have a payload that is devastating, right? Beyond just simply a predator drone that's got a couple of Hellfire missiles or whatever it may have. And someone sitting in a Connex in the desert in Nevada can fly that thing halfway around the world.

2:20:32Or don't have anyone fly it, pre-program it, and the thing flies itself. and that's you give the drone a mission and send the drone off to do the mission and it's fully automated yeah that's some terrifying shit I bet that's a lot of what this UAP shit is too I bet it's experimenting with that type of technology with some sort of a novel propulsion system because they were working on novel propulsion systems way back in the 50s and the 60s they were working on anti-gravity in the 60s I don't think we're there. I don't know. I don't think we're there. I don't know. I don't know where we're at. I don't either.

2:21:13I don't know where we're at, but I'm not convinced. I'm not convinced that they haven't done something. In fact, Eric Weinstein makes some really interesting connections between there's a college in upstate New York, a university in upstate New York that has a very overqualified physics department, and it's connected to a hedge fund that does bigger than Bernie Madoff type numbers. And he's like, the whole thing stinks to high heaven. And he goes, and I have a feeling that there's some sort of an undisclosed or a top secret above, you know, top secret access program that's going on. Oh, I can promise you there's something.

2:21:50Yeah. I've always thought a possible solution to petroleum as far as transportation goes. And I wonder why they've never tried it is using magnetic force. Right. If you have, you take a positive and negative charge, they're going to come together. But if you take a positive and positive or negative and negative, they're going to, I'm no fucking scientist, but, you know, it's going to repel, right? We've taken magnets and they push each other away. Well, how can we not use that if you had a vehicle and the base of it is essentially a positive charge or a negative, whatever it takes to make the magnets repel, and then your road base was essentially the similarly charged metal, wouldn't that make it some mention?

2:22:41Wouldn't you have to redo all the roads to make something like that real? Or put it in the road. Yeah, maybe. I mean, it certainly could be a potential source of transportation for the future. But I think the things that they're doing now probably relates to some sort of anti-gravity propulsion system. And then there was that, you know, I'm sure you're aware of this. All those scientists that went missing or wound up being murdered. Yeah, dude. How fucking sketchy is that? Oh, it's a coincidence. From Los Alamos, all up there with the nuclear. Coincidence. Yeah. Yeah. Who knows? I mean, who knows what the fuck those people are working on and whether or not they made breakthroughs and they don't want other people to know or whether or not they want to stop the breakthrough because they're aligned with whatever the conventional propulsion systems are and they don't want to lose money.

2:23:32This thing makes them obsolete. They can set back the science for a few years. Or is it tradecraft? Is it Russian or Chinese or Iranian? Could be that easy. Yeah. Oh, sure. And that's the other thing that Weinstein was saying. It's like, it's really shocking how little these incredibly important scientists are protected. Yeah. They're just fucking driving their Volvo to the university and working on top secret shit. And no one's making sure they don't get whacked by China. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be curious. And when they look into that, what was it? 11 of them in a year? 15 over a course of a few years.

2:24:12And some of them, people are going, oh, this could be coincidence. But there's a few of them where it's like, okay, these people, like this lady was specifically working on spacecraft metallurgy. This guy was specifically working on cold fusion. This guy was specifically like there's a bunch of them where you go, OK, something's weird. Something's weird here. Yeah. Well, enough to the fact that the government's looking into it. OK, there might be something here. So Justice Department's investigating it. They're trying to figure out what the connection is and what could have happened. But, you know, it's hard after the fact to try to figure out who did something, especially if somebody got hired from another country.

2:24:49Like they're not going to tell you. Like, how are you going to know? You didn't catch him. Did you not catch him when they killed the guy? Okay. Well, you're probably fucked. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

2:25:02It's 15. Yeah. And they're all from that area. Aren't they Los Alamos? I don't know. I'm not sure. I think that's part of the problem. It's like there's whenever you have a thing like this where people start looking for connections, they can make some connections that aren't necessarily valid. And so let's say if there's 15, let's say 10 of them. 10 of them are bullshit. Yeah. That means five aren't bullshit. If that's true, that's a lot. It's five super fucking brilliant people that got whacked. Yeah. And it's interesting that you'd have that many in this specific field in this period of time.

2:25:38Yeah. And they're not, you know, I would think of a scientist as being pretty fucking healthy. Right? I don't know about that. I think a lot of them are just in their own head, you know, and they're probably not even paying attention to their body. Did they all disappear? Different people died from different things. And one of the weirder ones was this one lady who was, I think she's the metallurgy lady, where she was hiking with her friend. And they were just hiking together, and the friend turned around to talk to her, and she was gone. And she was just behind her like 30 seconds before. They couldn't find her.

2:26:14They brought in cadaver dogs. They brought in search parties. Never found her. And I think they might have found her body recently. See, I think there was a report a few days ago that they might have found her body. I'd be looking real close at the friend. That's just me. As a guy who writes scripts. So me and Joe went for a hike. I turned around and that fucker's gone. Hey, I don't know what happened. I looked everywhere for him. I mean, I swear, I had just talked to him 30 seconds ago. And he's just not there. No sign of struggle. It's weird. Yeah. yeah like a husband and wife go hiking and the lady falls off the cliff they're like hey buddy yeah what the fuck happened you guys arguing can i see your text messages yeah yeah yeah or the one that just fell off the boat oh what happened there i i i don't want to say it wrong but i think she i think it was out in the bahamas i read about it she was it a cruise ship one no no no it was him and his lady and they're out on a sailboat or something and oh she would go off the side yeah he had to yeah something something weird they're not they're not buying it it goes all the way back to the natalie wood story you ever look into that one oh yeah that's right her and walking and robert wagner on that yeah and robert wagner and her had a big fight apparently and then she just whoops yep not the same person as the metallurgy oh which one is this lady but she was one of the scientists correct uh I believe she was one of the missing scientists she was definitely missing for a year which one was she I mean I don't know what is I don't know which ones are what was her specialty she was a missing lab worker does it say what she worked on no no So administrative assistant.

2:28:07Yeah, I remember this lady. Yeah. The other one was, her name is Reza. And the Reza one, that lady, she was the one that has the, so she served as the director of NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and she was in the materials processing group. She specialized in burn-resistant high-strength metal alloys and rocket propulsion medals. Wasn't she one that had some weird videos what she had made? I don't know. Anyway, the whole thing's creepy as fuck. Wild. She was hiking in the Angeles National Forest. Yeah. Outside of Pasadena. Hmm. Yeah. That could actually be a fucking mountain lion. It could be.

2:28:57You know. Or it could be a lady who's working on top secret rocket propulsion fucking metals. And I'm like, this lady's a problem. Was there some town, I want to say it's Arcadia in California, the mayor of that city. Yeah. Yeah. Arcadia. Yeah. She was a Chinese spy. Chinese spy. I would have to think if you're, if you've, how many people have you recruited that you finally go, well, fuck it, let's try and get the mayor of Arcadia. We got everybody else. Yeah, they probably like worked her into position to run as mayor, you know, I mean and then and then with the hopes of she was relatively young.

2:29:39Right. Maybe you go run for a state rep and Congress and be the fucking president. There was there was a thing in the 70s called Abscam. Do you remember this? Yeah. where there were all of these politicians, a few congressmen, some state reps, and they were all like Russian spies, or at least on the take. Right. Right. All of them, Soviet spies. Did you ever see that show, The Americans? Uh-uh. I didn't either, but I heard it was great. It was all about sleeper cell, Russian family that was pretending to be normal. Yeah. That's fascinating. Yeah. That's real. They did that. They really had Russian agents pretending to be American citizens.

2:30:22Oh, I wouldn't say had. I would say have. Oh, yeah. No. Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. And Chinese. Yeah. For sure. For sure. A hundred percent. Yeah. Plenty of them. A hundred percent. Yeah. Boy, how many Israeli agents are in Hezbollah or in Hamas? Like, probably. Or in the IRGC. Yeah. Probably. They probably got a bunch of those guys in there. A hundred percent. Yeah. It's just wild. Fucking. It's tradecraft, man. That's a fucking whole other thing. How hard is it to write about that stuff and like get it right to get it accurate? I mean you I Don't know you you speculate a lot and you look at it the past right because there's been enough It's funny cuz when they get caught never it's never that big a deal like there are always some It doesn't For whatever reason then the news doesn't there's we could pull it up there's been any number of chinese scientists over here and they were stealing this and they call him doing this it happens all the time um see the ones that got caught trying to bring in bio they're trying to bring in what were they trying to bring in diseases or something something i was looking there's another one in vegas recently but it's like they have these bio labs that are like being run out of like an apartment or something ccp linked Bio labs in American soil exposes major biosecurity gaps.

2:31:43Policymakers must act to improve oversight and biological research activity. Wasn't there a guy that got busted that was an Israeli agent and he got released and he took up? That's the one I think was in Vegas. Yeah. I was going to pull that up. That's the one in Vegas. Yeah. So this guy, he had all these fucking diseases in his garage. 1 ,200 samples.

2:32:06conclusion the f is conclusion of the fbi lab that the community could not be harmed by what was contained in that lab what finding possible biological laboratory in a garage inside investigators found refrigerators with vials containing unknown liquids police said in the immediate aftermath the home is also operated as an unlicensed short-term rental

2:32:33What is this fucking guy doing? So the question is, why does somebody have these materials in a private residence? It's not a doctor, not a lab, not a licensed medical facility of any sort. And then homeboy got released. Yeah, but check out the names on some of the vials. Oh, boy. They located pathogen-labeled containers with labels such as dengue fever, HIV, and malaria, along with a thousand mice, according to a federal report. The federal government never tested the items, and the CDC only made its determination based on the labeling. What? What the fuck? So in that case, Chinese citizen David He faces federal charges for allegedly manufacturing and distributing misbranded medical devices.

2:33:24He does not face charges. He does not face charges connected to the Las Vegas raid. And a trial in California was scheduled for April. What the fuck? just a bunch of vials of hiv and aids and fucking dengue fever and malaria no worries jesus normal so what was the israeli guy the guy who owned the lab there was a like an israeli guy who they caught who owned and then they released him and he went back to israel and everybody's like hey what it's the same case i think it says feds dropped case against man arrested in las Vegas biolab investigation. What's his name? Ori Solomon. Oh, Ori. What were you doing?

2:34:12Ori. Ori! Why do you have the HIV, Ori? There he is. Feds drop case against man arrested in Las Vegas biolab investigation. Yeah, I mean why investigate? Let it go, guys. No big deal. He was only charged with illegal possession of a firearm in Nevada. His immigration status precluded him from owning or possessing a gun. Well, listen, if he doesn't have a gun, how the fuck is he going to defend all his malaria? People try to steal malaria, bro. Got to be careful. Oh, boy. Yeah, this doesn't... Seems like someone made that go. There's too much fucking shit in the world to pay attention to. And too much of it is so disheartening.

2:34:56The more you look into it, the more you're like, is it all fucked? Is the whole world fucked? Like what is going on? and and My guess is Because there are so many different two things right there's so many different There's no secrets with the internet and social media and phones shits getting out But it's also getting out at such a volume that none of it seems to have an impact Right, right. It's just so much Right think about that in the 1990s Right. They're talking about that on Nightline and this and that and meet the press and Chinese spies, Israeli, you know? Uh-huh. That's news. But now it's just another.

2:35:41The news cycles of flood, it's like you drop a rose petal in the river while flood's going by. Like, it's gone. Yeah. It's here, it's gone. And it's a sensory overload and people are tuning it all out. They're tuning it all out also because nothing ever gets done. Nothing happens. And the more people like that get released, the more people like, ah, they throw their hands in the air. They'd rather just watch sports. Yeah. Yeah. Just forget about it. Yeah. Well. I can't believe Simon & Schuster didn't send you my book. Yeah. Well, I don't know what happened. But I'll listen to it on audio tape.

2:36:17I'm glad you did the audio tape, though. Yeah. That's important. Yeah. Pull up the, you're going to fucking love it. it's oddly entertaining and informative. How did you have the time to write a book? You're writing 150 different TV shows. So you know what it is. Do you know anything about it? No. Pull it up. I'm going to try and... I don't even want to tell you what it's called. I just want you to see the title. How to Not Die in Prison? I told you you don't like it. So here's the deal. So when I lived in LA, there was a gym on Beverly Boulevard, right at like Beverly and Sweetser. And everybody called it Buns on Beverly because they had all the treadmills kind of right up there and all the girls were there.

2:37:08And if you get stuck in traffic, you're staring at all their asses. That was my gym. So me and a buddy of mine shared an apartment together and we'd jog down there and work out every day. And there was this dude that showed up and started working out in there. And this dude was jacked. But different than like the West Hollywood fit. Like this fucker was yoked and had all these crazy tattoos on him. And we became kind of like friendly and ended up kind of becoming friends. And his name's Tom Nelson. And one day I'm like, so what have you been doing? He goes, well, you know, I'm going to start a personal training here.

2:37:44I was working over at the vitamin shop. Guy's like in his 40s. I'm like, we're in vitamin shop in your 40s. That's kind of weird. I said yeah um have you always lived in uh California it's like well I've been here 19 years 20 years yeah yeah I said where are you from somewhere in the southeast I said you always live in LA goes well no I just got to LA see I've been in prison I said oh how long 17 years I said oh and I didn't Ask anything else right He does become a personal trainer and I'd see him over one day. We have lunch and we're bullshit and then I'm like What what tell me the deal? He's like, oh, I was a fucking criminal dude like a criminal like a real criminal like biggest drug dealer and In Hollywood and armed robbery and ran over a DEA agent like I was a fucking criminal But now, you know when I was in I I discovered fitness.

2:38:41I started working out. And I'm like, when I get out, he got himself in good shape. I'm going to start. This is my passion. I'm going to do this. So he was a trainer there for a while. And then he opened his own personal training gym. And I would go work out over there and hang out with him. He was a cool fucking dude. And it became the biggest private training gym independent in Hollywood. it so I go off and I you know I start writing and I'm shooting Yellowstone and he reaches out he goes hey I wrote a movie about my life I'm gonna send it to you so he sends it to me and I read it it's actually pretty good but it's sort of a fun 90s kind of they don't make movies like this anymore it's like it's the rock but we're celebrating the you know the guy the fucking criminal.

2:39:33But it was, but it was good. I said, Hey, I'll pass it on to some producers. But nothing ever happened with it anyway. So COVID happens. I'm stuck up on this ranch in Montana. And I call him and I say, Tom, where do you get your gym equipment from? Cause I need to build a gym. Cause we can't go to a gym. I can't leave the ranch COVID restrictions. The whole fucking cast is stuck on that ranch. And, and he said, they shut my gym down, dude. so I mean I'll sell you anything you want so I sent a flatbed trailer to LA and picked up a pile of Jib equipment from it and didn't hear from him again he calls me maybe 18 months ago two years and I answer and he's like hey man I'm in a bad way I'm like what's the deal he goes fucking he's a single father I got a five year old kid I got fucking colon cancer I'm fucking dying and I don't I'm tapped out dude I'm a fucking 60 year old felon.

2:40:29I can't get a job. I can't do anything. Is there any work on your movies or, or anything that I could do? And I said, well, first colon cancer, how bad, like what stage, what's this? He goes, I don't know. They saw it on an X-ray and diagnosed me. And I said, well, let's deal with that shit first. So I fly him to Texas where I know people and I get him in and he sees a doctor and fortunately the mass wasn't cancer. So they, they help him out do the surgery get that done and then I say well I mean I get your job in a movie but it doesn't pay very good and the hours are shit and you've got a five-year-old daughter I mean you know to just be a production assistant or something that's not gonna pay enough to off it's it's not a great that's not a plan right I guess you think you could like just spot me for a few months while I try and figure shit out and I said I have a hundred percent failure rate of loaning money to friends.

2:41:25It doesn't work. I'm not a bank, and buying you 90 days ain't gonna fucking help. But let me think. Let me think of something. And so, it doesn't take me very long, and I'm thinking, here's a guy who spent 17 years in prison, and you know what I've never read? I've never read a How to Not Fucking Die, a travel guide to prison. So I call him back and I go, I got it, Tom, we're going to write a book about my life. Kind of, we're going to write a travel guide to prison for the accidental inmate, right? Somebody who fucks up and they end up and they don't know how to navigate this place. He goes, a travel guide.

2:42:09I said, I'm going to send you. So I bought a bunch of lonely planet travel guide to Thailand and Mexico. And, and I said, look at these, right? It breaks it down. It tells you an overview of the country, then it gives you a glossary of the terms. They teach you the language. They talk about the food. They talk about where you stay. They talk about navigating the country. We're going to do that for, for prison. And he goes, I'm in. I said, great. I'm going to write all the intros. I'll build the structure and, and walk you through it. And you're going to, so it's literally a travel guide to prison and it walks you through day one, how to navigate the yard being processed in the food the commissary the gangs the diseases prison riots how to get a job in there how to fucking make a shiv how to do everything whoa it's a it is a tour guide to prison how many pages a couple hundred it sounds awesome it's the crazy i hope i never need it no well most people read it hope they never need it i'm gonna guess 99 of the people who do read it, the one thing it'll do is tell you, you don't ever want to fucking go there.

2:43:16That's for sure. Right. And typically if someone's going there, I even say in the intro, I'm like, if you're, if you're buying this book because you're going to prison, finish the book before you get to prison, do not bring this book with you to prison or you'll die on fucking day one. So leave the book at home. But yeah. So, so then we did, I took the, we, we wrote three chapters of it i took it out um and simon schuster read it flipped and me and tom got a book deal so that's awesome so he you know he he was able to sit with me and we wrote it and he was able to take care of his kid and that's very cool yeah good good for you man for doing that that's really awesome that you did that because i know you're busy as shit like you having another project on your plate not not fun probably that's awesome that one was a lot of fun right yeah but not fun to take something else on I mean I'm sure you yeah but it was it was it was a very entertaining diversion from you know from my other you know I can bitch about my other job right bitch about something on Landman or whatever and then you know I'm gonna sit down and oh we're writing about smallpox today okay there's there's some perspective it's not it's not quite so bad that Billy Bob is an hour late to work which he's never an hour late to work but but you get my point yeah yeah it's a sobering thing it's a it's it's a that's a broken system you want to talk about a broken fucking system yeah the prison system is Alabama solution on you know the guy who did that documentary on Alabama prison system it's fucking heartbreaking man heartbreaking I used to be roommates with the guy that edited all of those locked up he would go and film those locked up remember those?

2:45:04Yeah. Go to Folsom and Corcoran and all these prisons just dude it's rough and not designed to rehabilitate right? At all. It's an institution that guarantees you're a criminal when you come out. That's what you'll be. If you weren't a criminal when you went in which you clearly committed a crime and got convicted but you're going to be a fucking criminal when you come out. Like the people the guys like Tom who, I mean, there's an 80-something percent recidivism rate in the U.S., so for a guy to get out of prison and not go back to prison, the odds are fucking four to one against you. Like, it's...

2:45:45At least. Yeah. It's probably higher than that, right? I think it's 80-something percent, 86. Yeah. Fuck. Yeah. It's brutal. It's brutal. Well, I'm glad you wrote it. I'll read it. I promise. I'm going to listen to it. I'll listen to it in the sauna. There you go. Thanks for everything, man. Thanks for all the awesome shows. It's been great watching them. Dude, thanks for watching. You're the man. Appreciate you. Appreciate the guy that... Do we have time to talk about one more thing? Sure. That UFC 250. Oh, man. Yeah. Justin Gaethje, dude. Yeah, I just had him on. Yeah, I know. Yeah, it was incredible.

2:46:25I saw him. Remember when I bumped into you at that fight in Vegas? That's the first time I'd seen him live. And I go to a bunch of prize fights. I love boxing. And I'm watching that guy. If he had decided to be a professional boxer, his striking is that level. Like that dude, he went to work on that guy. Now, I'm glad he's an MMA fighter because he started out as an All-American wrestler in Division I. He's just a great athlete all across the board. And just his particular style of aggression is so well-suited for MMA. Oh, yeah. It's shocking that he's that good a striker and he was a wrestler.

2:47:10I know. He's just a wild motherfucker across the board. But for him to pull that off the way he did at the White House was nuts. I mean, some books had him a 6-1 underdog. and Ilya Tepore is so fucking good yeah he's so good and he had him in sick trouble in that second round let's say I watched it again yesterday the second round was brutal I mean Ilya was just destroying his liver yeah almost put him down yeah but even in the second round Justin's he still bloodied Ilya up his face was busted up like he was getting the most damage to Ilya's face and that was a giant factor in the fight because I don't know what the accuracy of these reports are but what's being reported is that he had two broken orbital bones and a broken nose so both his eyes were broken and his nose was broken and Justin was here a couple days later and he looked great it's just nuts it's just like he's very deceptively good at rolling with shots and, you know, he's fucking durable as hell and just very clever, very clever in how he sets things up and where he finds openings.

2:48:22And one of the things he kept getting off is this. He does it like he does a collar tie into an uppercut and he got that off multiple shots. He did that with Fazeev too. He's really good with that move. He's a beast, man. I'm just so happy for him to win. You know, I'm a giant Ilya Teporia fan as well and I think he'll be back better than ever. and I think sometimes a loss is like one of the most important things a fighter can ever have because they realize like you can be beat and you need to know that you're a human you need to know that you can't just throw caution to the wind sometimes and just engage in these wild scraps sometimes you have to be a little bit more tactical and sometimes you got to realize like you can't take everybody out and and that's the case with Justin they couldn't take him out and he almost did in the second round got real fucking close real close but you know that that freaking justin he he can time that transfer of power to right at the end of the punch and just his hands are so heavy yeah everybody says that too everybody who he's fought has said he's one of the hardest guys that that's ever hit them including khabib who's you know one of the all-time greats said justin hit him harder than anybody yeah he's a fucking animal yeah it was impressive and the fight was like to be there at the white house while that was going on and to have justin so happy like there's something about a guy winning who's an underdog that is just so fucking inspiring he didn't look like an underdog that night no he did not after the second round he didn't especially the third once the third rolled around he dropped him and then he he uh got a head and arm and snatched him down to the ground like holy shit man he's he's fucking dominating them.

2:50:03This is crazy. It was wild. Wild watch. It was wild. It was awesome, though. It was fantastic. Should have been there live. Man, that would have been a good one. Oh, it was crazy. It was crazy to be there live. It just felt surreal. I mean, they had a flyover. I saw that. Eight jets come shooting over. Bro, they were like separated by that far from each other. I don't know how the fuck those guys do that. It was incredible. Incredible. That was awesome. Thanks, brother. Once again, the book is called How to Not Die in Prison. and available now, audiobook, everything. Yep. Thank you. Awesome, buddy.

2:50:36Thank you. Bye, everybody.

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