JRE MMA Show #148 with Bernard Hopkins

32:53If I didn't have that experience, that I just spoke about, 20 plus minutes, I would be swallowing up like most of them. I hear the Tyson stories, even when he was on the show, been around him, foot on the car many times in Vegas, at the MGM, no, Mandela Bay, MGM went even there when I foot on the car. And I hear a lot of the names, and I say to myself, they say game -recognized game, how you gonna kind of ex -configure. Don't you know I had to talk to get off the block? I am not going to, where I say I'm going, I just want to get off the block. And if I get off the block based on that guy letting me off because I say I'm going somewhere that I'm not really going, you build up a skill setting or how to deal with people that you need to deal with.

33:56The danger come in is when you do it to everybody. The benefits of it when you, in front of somebody, that you know it's foolish shit, that you know it's looking right at you lying, and you're saying to yourself, how long this conversation going to take, to be over. But being in a position that I've put myself through, nobody gave me anything. I have to have patience, even though I don't have to, or I don't want to, at that moment. Because, society of what you've done, it becomes such great entertainment and historic, you get the stamp that you celebrity and you big and in God.

34:57I'm a believer. I don't shy at all pushing on the body, I don't bring it up, just to bring it up in the conversation, to say, would I agree to disagree? So I believe in checks and balances. I believe in all these things that deal with my situation, to balance out things that need to be balanced, that keeps me on point, to know who I am. A lot of things I won't forget, and a lot of things I will, on purpose, on purpose. So, I realize one thing, I realize this.

35:46All I do now is being written, or going to be written down as I go. But when it's over, that story no longer be written by me, it be written by somebody else. I don't want that. No, you know what I want? Why I have this time to write it myself, and have their awareness to keep me not just in check, but mindful that every step I make, every accomplishment, every failure, every obstacle, every challenge, whenever it is, I must stand ten toes down on it at all times. That shows again the consistency of Bernard Hopkins, Jr. because anybody that understands and knows or follow or knows anything about me, because most people don't have the patience to do research.

37:01They want somebody to tell them who Joe Rogan is. They want somebody to tell them most people who Bernard Hopkins is. I learn not to be in that world of thinking. I learn to do my due diligence before I stepped up to my opponent, or adversary, or any other person that breathed the same air of life that I breathed. Did you learn this focus and determination and discipline? Did you learn this because of prison? Because you wanted to make sure this never happened to you again. Absolutely. So that experience when you were seventeen being locked up, that was in even though it was a horrible situation, pivotal to your real world.

37:48Were you really in the horrible situation? Being in prison. No, it wasn't. It wasn't hard. No. How so? Because most of my friends I said was there. Second, I wanted to get out. Obviously when I got caught, you know, when you get caught by the police, or you get locked up, obviously you're trying to do everything to get out. Whether you give the earliest name, whether you try to, I didn't do it. But when I got there, and I seen that it wasn't like it's promoted on TV, per se, case in point. I had more friends there than I had in the neighborhood that's locked up. Of course, they could have to see you because you're locked up with them.

38:33Right. The mindset, Joe, when you're there, you're not, you know, you're not thinking, you're thinking everybody, you got people that's for good reasons, looking out for you. Which means I got this. You need this. You got this. You got a stinger. You can heat some hot water, and you need some soup, whatever. You learn to survive in that situation. Because I don't believe, and I said this in multiple interviews. Multiple interviews. I did a lot of expressing myself over the 28 years of boxing. Trust me. It's not hard to find my voice. I understand, well, I got to understand that without that experience, I wouldn't be here having this conversation with you.

39:21Or anyone else before you. Let alone Hall of Fame. Let alone today, the oldest athlete. Yeah, I've got a pretty couple of years. Then when a major world title surpassed in George Foreman, that you were world class into your 50s. There's only a couple of classes. I was defending my title with 25, 30 -year -olds in my 40s. Yeah. Well, I remember when they wrote you off before the Kelly Pavlik fight. I wrote a blog on my website about that fight, because I was so blown away. Because I remember leading into that fight. Everybody wrote you off first of all in the Felix Trinidad fight. They thought you were too old then.

40:0935. Correct. They thought you were over the hill. Felix Trinidad's as young, incredible fighter. There's so much emotions of law when you went to Puerto Rico and threw the flag on the ground. Everybody's chasing you. I mean, you sold the shit out of that fight. It was wild. But I wouldn't sell. I know, but it just happened. It did. It did. But it sold like crazy. And they were writing you off. And you put on a masterclass. I remember that fight. I remember that fight like it was yesterday. Just had that in a race for you last month. Woo. Because I was always a big fan. And I was a big fan also of the fact that you were standing up to the promoters.

40:47Because I remember the people, like the HBO boxing people, they didn't like it. They didn't like when you talked about all that stuff. They thought you were wasting their time. But you had an important message. And so people were kind of looking to write you off. So by the time you fought Felix Trinidad, it was one of those crossroads fights. Where many people thought Felix Trinidad is going to become an all -time great. Bernard Hopkins is 35. You know, this would be a good win for Felix Trinidad. And you just fucking boxed masterfully. It was a beautiful fight. It was a beautiful fight because it showed all the things I love about your style.

41:22First of all, the intelligence, the defensive responsibility. You never put yourself in bad positions. Never. Your defense was always tied as Fort Knox. And you start picking them apart. And I remember watching and going, oh shit. Oh shit. It was just one of those fights where it was just so exciting. It was so, because you know, even though it was a fan of yours, and I was a fan of Felix Trinidad as well, it was watching it happen. And you mean you watch it something special. Right. And that's the thing that athletics does for us. And particularly fighting because it's so raw. What it does to us is it shows us the potential that human beings have beyond what we expect.

42:02You did that with Felix Trinidad. And you were in your 40s when you fought Kelly, right? Yes. How will we do that? Not at multiple times in my career. Kelly Pavlik, I say 44 or 45. Which is another one. I wrote that's when I wrote a blog about it. Like do you understand how crazy this is? They predicted I get knocked out on this one. Yeah. This one, and I'm saying that I was just that was actually the Germain Taylor fight, right? Yes. So people thought, oh my god, this kid. I'm glad you said that. Stop right there. Yes. The two Germain telephites, right? Now I accept my losses. But those two, not losing sleep in 2023 over it, but I met him regret the lie.

42:43What I mean by that is that Germain telehaced. Luther Bella used to work for HBO, started Luther Bell Entertainment. So he had Germain Taylor under the entertainment of Luther Bell. So they wanted to use Germain Taylor to get me out of boxing because of I've generated a lot of enemies. They've been my biggest supporters, they've been my enemies, to not fall asleep at the will, or to an estimate anybody that comes in front of me, whether they're worthy or not, number one, content number one, two, content, or that's another politic story that sometimes they pit people there just because of they can put people there.

43:31Germain telephite, split decision, went to Germain tele, the second fight, which I believe was just as close as the first fight. So Germain tele went 24 rounds with Bernard Hopkins, correct? Lost his mind, haven't been right since. They feed him, they, the powers to be. Want the fans to believe the lie, which it was a lot of rumbling about who won that first fight? A split decision, the champion doesn't get the split decision, and not a favor, but our feet Germain tele. But through 4A's in boxing, it goes away, who cares? We fight the second fight because as a champion, I can put it in a contract, hey, Spence and Crawford.

44:31Crawford wants to exercise that, that, that, that, you know, that clause. Correct. So we got that second fight, decision loss. They think it's going to make it a little better, not a split decision, a decision. Okay, they want to make it pack up and run. Basically get the fuck out of here, we got you. They fed him the Kelly Pavlik because they wanted the fans. They wanted you at that time, but you're a little smarter. Now patronizing being keeping a, keeping a 100. They split Kelly Pavlik in there with Germain Teller and Kelly Pavlik did what? Noxie Mout after avoiding to knock out himself, correct?

45:18You have real close to going out. Yeah. So now they said, hey, we want them, they want to clean up the mess. I'm pinning around this game, 30 side. Joe, trust me on this one. They want to clean up the mess. They still getting, they getting hammered with the fight with me and Germain. Now they're pinning it with Kelly, thought he was going to walk him over. Kelly stopped them. We're going to now try to make things up when they're back in now. We got to still make that thing up when Bernard Hopkins, because Tom is not going to bury it because Bernard got a big mouth. And Bernard's going to keep talking.

46:00So let's pick Kelly Pavlik. Hold up. Let's pick Kelly Pavlik in there with him. And Atlantic City. Joe. He's going to get Bernard. This is the first time Larry Merchant, who I had a lot of fun beating him up on a mic. This is the first time we might just sheep and arc. He's going to get knocked out this fight, because they wanted you to think that the Germain telephite. It's my mom said earlier, they wanted you to believe the lie. They got to promote the lie. Yeah. And hopefully they look like a genius when it happens. Yeah. One of my best performance, not just in the ring, but one of my best performance or who I am, how I won't let them write my death warrant or my exit warrant, or who I am.

46:53And see the thing is, they know who I am. Oh, you're enemy know who you are. That's why they threatened by that. They seen you coming Joe long time ago.

47:07But it's a time that comes and goes. When they know they can't stop you. Right now, at 2023, right now, faster person, 2024. And I'm sitting up there having a conversation, articulating everything I said and know what I'm saying, dates and time. They didn't expect that. They didn't expect that. They expect a voice recorder. When we sit up here like the movie Bernie dead, but alive, I'm here big and in this who I became. I'm going to say that again. Yeah. I'm here. This one, it comes not overly spiritual, but this what I believe. I'm here to prove to me, can't speak for anybody else. That that historic chapter is the second layer of foundation with the come that they better be aware of.

48:16That they better be aware of. Because now this statement brings me to this conversation that need to be said. And this is the best platform to spill it out on. The boxing game, the business of boxing, has to be met with a personality and a discipline no matter what the win is blowing, which way it is blowing, that I'm not going to give up. And that's what the thread is. And that's what the fear is. And it's not fair, repersonally. It's fair and what I know and what I can do. And my consistency to bring the people together, whether they, the ones that really mean it, the good politician, the people that's in the game of boxing, some commission is not all, to understand that we need checks and balances in this business, to the least that have law, there to, as a structure, to honor and go by.

49:29And if there's any violation, like anything else, you get test tiles for it. You got to pay, you got to get punished in so many ways, to do it. So boxing, like any other sport in America, is the only sport that's not regulated by any entity other than itself. Hmm. You know, Joe, I used to always say to myself, back then, there's so many, when I hear this, they go, oh my god. There's so many non -active, non -active, active, excuse me, lawyers in boxing. There's a lot of lawyers or can be lawyers. They have the law school, they got the law license, but they don't practice. But they have knowledge of what they can do and what they can't do.

50:28Do you understand what I'm saying? So already, most of us are at a disadvantage, not at advantage, to know to do's and don'ts. So, yes, whether or not we're getting fucked. And most of the time, 99 .9%, you're getting fucked. When you were saying that the Roy Jones Junior fight, there was a 1 .4 split and you made 750 or whatever it was. After all that, you only brought home 80? Yeah. How's that possible? I had a contract, again, this was the ignorance coming in, lack of knowledge. I had a contract with a management team that sold me out with the promoter. And the promoter, again, butch Lewis, got us a soul.

51:24He somehow convinced my managers at that time, a rise in boxing, that he can do better for them in a long term, fighters come and go, managers and advisors stay around, whatever name they pick themselves under. And so, I had a 60 -40, more miles to say ignorance early. I had a 60 -40 manager contract. I have it to the day frame in my office. That's pretty crazy. 60 -40 manager contract. I kept that contract, I framed it. So, these things, because it shows how far I evolved. What's a standard contract? What's a fair contract? What's a fair contract? What's your negotiate? What is, what is like, what is a good professional get?

52:16And boxing? Yeah, like, Jermel Trollow for the Canal. I'll say, a manager shouldn't get no more, no more than 15%. At that level of, of, of, of, of, 10%, most of the time, but no more than 15, because he might be doing other stuff, and he might got investments in you, leading up to that moment. You know, leading up to that moment, he had you, Ronald, and Pixel, he had you, straight up, fighting at a club, fighting you, built a stuff up to a container and then your championship. Yeah. Right. So, I would say no more than 15%. And, and, a lot of feedback, and a lot of response, going to be really on that point that I just said when it comes to number.

52:58No more than 25, 25, third. You got, advisors right now, they call themselves advisors, working at, working as a promoter, which means that part of, the change of boxing, part of the fight that I know that's going to be a rumble, going into the next generations, and we in that Golden Boy promotion. Top ranked bivariate, been around 50 plus years, just as long as Darn King. Right. Time is very, very short and limited. Right. Not saying it on guard of minutes, but the brand is there, but the editing, the strength, it's a new game now. It's a new war order. Curtis may feel, right. I'm old school guy.

53:44Curtis may have a new war order. Right. It's happening now in certain situations and it's going to happen in boxing. Everything has been flipped and turned around. There's a vise of lovin' and the dead dies.

54:01Boxing has no guidelines on which you can do, how much you can take other than the commissions, not all, but most of them, is governed the rules that they set. And that's where the problem come. The manager, job is to manage and look out by enemies necessary for the fighter. The promoter, promotes, that event, get sponsors, get the money, get the support, and he and the manager go to the table and they have a conversation about what is there, the minimum, canal 30 million, 25 million, they're the night. That was negotiated by a consultant that's really a promoter hiding in the closet. Hmm.

55:18Boxing. It's a great sport. The business red light district. In any red light district that I know of, it's not a good place to be if you're going to be preaching at church on Sunday. Boxing has always been controlled by crime figures, mob, crooked lawyers. But that was then. Now, it's a different time and way to do it. Those days with the emelope underneath the table, nah. That bin stop.

56:04The way is being done now is based on favoritism, who they want in, who they want out. When it comes to who they can exploit, who they can make more money with, and who they can and cannot influence. How deep does it go? How deep does it go? As far as like judges, because there's been some fights where like Timothy Bradley versus Manipack, where the decision gets announced and everybody just goes, what? There's a few of those decisions where people go, what is the line? What's the betting line? Who's financially tied to this? Who's the promotion? I can't even reach the one. Luma Chico. Luma Chico.

56:58Devon Hayden. Yeah. Like, they asked her that question. It's who they want to win and move to the next level. Because that's where they can make the most money. And that's where they have the most control. Hello. Yeah. So this is something that you have to be a Harvard graduate to understand. Right. Like, this is like in your face it's like, so what? Like, I'm taking it to the point that deep. Like, I know you'll see Havanaugh and Havanaugh's is South of the box. This is boxing. No. Well, you mean this is boxing? You were hip -hoppers that been around just as long as the promoters. Right? Because they can get a free meal at the press conference or they can get somewhere and they got their little perks.

57:48Right? They get a little free credential when they're around your neck and then it's selling soap. Yeah. So, so when you and that environment, that's so tight when it comes to the community of it. Mm -hmm. They could smell your fart. You like that? It's crazy. I mean, is that, is that, is that, is that serious? Incessantly. And I'm saying to, to, to, you know, my small circle is like, you tell me that this judge, along with the other two judges, right? Three ringsides, three judges, right?

58:30Six hours, six hours balls, that's watching this fight. Nobody's drooling from the mouth. Right? Nobody got an oxygen tank, right? It's judging. So, we, we assume that the commission of their state, Vegas, here, there, or whatever, LA, whatever, they assign these judges, they screen these judges. Did anybody do a background check or see anybody mortgages later? Or they call, car payments are late? Right. Eight nine months, do. Like, we need to understand the qualifications of being a judge because lives of careers is at stake at that high level. We're not only taking something from that particular fighter, but his family is wrapped up in that too.

59:30They don't look at that. Right. They don't care. And so, when it happens every now and then, and not every 10, 15, 20 years, whether it makes a right or not, this is a consistency. And also, from the previous decades, in moments in history, boxing still has that question. Is boxing rig before it goes down? Is boxing controlled by the underworld or the new underworld, or the world of influence, or the world of power, or the world who they want to make more money off of? It's about who they can make more money off of. And look, I'm not going to say I understand, because if I say I understand, then I feel that I am not going to do nothing about it and I feel I'm part of the problem.

1:00:30Because a lot of guys, and a lot of people in boxing business know when I'm talking is genuine and is straight up the truth, but they would never do what I'm doing right now. They just accepted it. Well, they just deal with it. They don't talk out of it. They keep their mouth shut. They don't talk out of it. And not all, but there's some have things to lose. Pay day. Pay day. Pay day. So, or positions of where they act or what they do, they don't want to lose whatever it is, big or small to you, to them, is their God or next to it. That's how deep that is. I witnessed it. I'm there in the front row.

1:01:22And I'm not having no nonsense. And the thing of not having that is one thing of saying it. Joe, I don't need a job from them to pay my bills. I don't need them to do something for me based on a threat or based of silence you. See, that's the power I was talking about early. Not the other power. Some could be great. Some can be not great. But the power of do for self. And the power of being consistent. And got there in spite of the bright ballin' to never giving up as you witnessed with the Tito fight. That was the beginning of their demise who I became today in 2023. And he's still can talk and speak.

1:02:24And he haven't forgotten nothing, only if he chose to. That's when I say power. Yeah. But that's your discipline. That's your drive. And that's so extraordinary that you were able to maintain that. At, you know, the Kelly Pavic fight again, you're 44. And that fight? 44. 45. That's crazy. Yes. You compete at a world -class level against one of the top guys in the sport who's a knockout artist at 44. 45 and just put on a clinic. That put on a clinic. That moment there was around a time I became the alien. Were you boxed for almost three decades? Yeah, you got three -prisionaries. You got three -prisionaries to the alien.

1:03:08Listen, I understood the time I hung around. And I had to recreate myself. I had to bring something to the press conference. Joe, I know you were answer the question. But I'm going to try answered. But I had to come up with something. Why? Why Joe is because what? Every reporter that been covering me, they got taught to cover me eventually. Not based on what I've done and didn't do. I'm making history. They know what every time I fight they remind me every fight. I win. And I just did this. I just did that. Ray Robinson couldn't do it and you did it. To tariff fight. Jumping up two way classes.

1:03:46Now, the Cholo Brothers, right? You see what he tried to make history. When I jumped two way class and fight, Gunnalo. I set records that's still there. To be chased. It's a blessing for me to sit back and have fun and have conversation. But I understood again every moment, every historic moment, every time that I can stay in the game, not because I needed the money. They was paying me very well to leave. They was paying me very well to leave because of what I wanted to make. And make sure that I established a historic record that it would take decades to break them. And that's what's happening today or an attempt to happen.

1:04:44And so that to me gave me more drive to say, I'm going to stay around one more. I'm going to chase this dream. I'm going to chase that goal. I'm going to make this history because Ray Robinson didn't do it. I'm going to jump up two way classes and fight Tarver. How old were you fought Tarver? 48, 49. You know crazy that is. Yeah. In Atlantic City. Again, how were you able to do that? What separates you physically from all those fighters that deteriorated young in their career? Is it your defense? Like, is it just technique? Like what? It was a combination as a recipe. It was all above. Break them down to you.

1:05:27I'm going to break them down to you. Okay. It was two of those that you mentioned, discipline, of course. You know, protecting yourself at all times in that ring, even though you're still going to get hit, but you want to hit more than you get hit, obviously, the wear and tear. Lifestyle. Joe, the lifestyle outside the ring is impeccable. You got to understand the lifestyle and the discipline. Go back to D block. Let's go back to D block. Let's go back to running at yard. Yard out. Yard in. Let's go back or winning championships in a greater full penitentiary before I came home. I was a championship in prison.

1:06:18You go to my Instagram. I know they're going to go now. I put up a sparring session with all the inmates outside the ropes watching me sparring the same penitentiary I got parrord from. I have more video that I kept just for my own safekeeping, not knowing a goal today. Would kept me in the business of boxing physically was not just my talent. I'm not downplaying it by no means. Ward Jones was talented in me. Oscar De La Jolla. Your Trinidad was talented in Bernard. It's all Bernard. Come on out. You had to. No, I ain't talking. I'm talking about far as all around skills, but one thing I did have.

1:07:05I had the room and ability to do what? To reinvent myself to make sure that I don't be one way all the time. I learned styles that Roy possess. I learned styles that Trinidad possess. I learned a street Philadelphia mentality of the history of Philadelphia. Come in, Wain Bam Thank You, ma 'am. I learned all that stuff and wrapped it up in the recipe and now the main course was served. I learned so many things through time and experience. Up or down, bad or good. Like or dislike. I learned all these things and put them together in a proper space and I said, guess what? If I'm in there with a guy that's strong in the first couple of rounds, I'm going to know what I've shown him.

1:07:54I'm being laery of him. And once I identified that, takes about two or three rounds. Why do you think they said he's a slow starter? He's boring the first four or five fights. Joe, you watch me. You heard him say all the commentators. They snore in around a fourth round. They snore in. But then I understand what I have to do. Turn up the gas. Not only, yep, turn up the gas, but disarm them. Disarm the mentally which control from my perspective, everything you do tomorrow. Everything you do the next round. Everything you think about doing if I pit doubt in your mind and come to the ring, prepare physically to take you to that place.

1:08:39That task of whether you believe what you say. That's the block. And then you take that experience which I've had, not bragging and boasting about it. But it's my history. It's part of my story. Without that, I'm not here. One of the enjoyable things I would love doing before the fight start is when a referee, Bernard, come out. Your main teller and then we're in the middle of the ring. And he's giving you last rights, right? Last instructions of the rules he gave you in the dressing room. I call it the last rights because you don't have to be alive when you leave out of there. When that bell ring, your life could be in that in jeopardy.

1:09:30So I wanted to say last rights. So when they give us the last rights, you heard the rules, you heard this. It's too low, it's too high if you hit there. And I'm looking at my opponent like me and you looking at each other. He looking at me, I'm looking through him. I said it earlier. And whatever he say, he won't speak, but he can't run now. And as his bottom lip shiver, as we stare each other for at least two seconds before, he gives us the instructions to go to the corner and then the bell ring. First round is on.

1:10:08And then how fast and how good I start is how I finish. That's how beat my opponents in and out of the ring. They front runners. They run in eight eighties and they like, I got a great time. I'm like, okay, we're not done.

1:10:43That's the patience. That is knowing who you are and understanding that and doing that, you might have to take some defeat. But you always hear the sound bite, especially in boxing. They love to use words because other people say it. Dare to be great. The actions don't speak. The words they come out of their mouth most of the time. And that's what separates the do's and the don'ts. The dare to be great. Correct. And to believe in yourself at 44, 45 years old, to still be not just world class, but one of the best in the world. Thank you. That was just extraordinary that you were able to keep that level of skill.

1:11:35I just want to talk to you about your lifestyle and your training and what was it about your preparation, the way you lived, that gave you this incredibly long career. My mother and father, Bernard Sr., and Shirley Hopkins, my mother, they lived. They lived a different way of that time, the way they lived. I come up, I told you again, you know, a big family, four sisters, and the rest boys. I'm the second oldest. And they both, my mother and father was dead before 60, not because of an accident, not because of some violent crime or anything like that. Lifestyle. I grew up around a lot of stuff.

1:12:28I've seen a lot of stuff. I used to watch my father take syringes and hide them up at the will work up the front of the door, up top, and I used to climb up through the chair and get it and hand it to my mom. And she said, we get that from. And I used to say it, and I stopped, I realized I was starting something. It had to be about maybe six, maybe seven. And I realized I was starting something, so I no longer used to see them put it up there or go up there and get it. And so I, it was the lifestyle. I seen a lot of lifestyle that I knew and the history too, a Philadelphia. Any little success you get, you think you're a world champion, you know, you're a regional champion, you're a Pennsylvania champion.

1:13:15A lot of guys actually wasn't disciplined to take it to the next level. They became stars in their own neighborhood. They became stars in their own city. I wanted to be bigger than that. And so, and knowing it and saying it is one thing. But just as I, as I speak now, as a conviction that I've continued to walk that walk and talk to talk, that drove me to be able to never give up and never, never waver from what I believe. So that there helped me stay away from the things that is right in front of your face in most of the time. When you win, they have a after party, it's Wippen Art with Champ, they all pop up upstairs, he getting in a hot tub.

1:14:09I go right to my room. I want to munk, but I go right to my room because 90 % of people that is at that party maybe have from was ruined against me. And then second, they, the smoking, drinking, snorting or anything else. I want to about that life. I want to about that when I was a hula minstreet. I was about having things that I felt that my parents didn't have enough to give us that life that we just seen right three blocks from where we lived. And sometimes, especially in California, you can make two turns and you and somewhere where you'd be like, hold up, we'll hit the lottery. So I wanted that life in a different way and got a chance to now have it and some through the travels and the time that I've been on this earth with those two life experience that I look at, three lives that I lived, just the third one, that in your those times could have been over.

1:15:25That kept me disciplined in between fights. The years that I got, got to have some credit, got to give credit to that thinking and that experience of saying my mother and father died before 60 because of Lysdom. My father had shot out, kid liver. Shot his liver out of 57. I feel the best. You look great. I know I feel great. I know I look great. And it was already gone. I reflect every now and then about that when I see pictures by getting certain things together about my life story. I'm looking and reading, I'm looking and grabbing things that I kept that's given to me by siblings. We are grown now.

1:16:12All my siblings, except for my brother because he got killed. Yeah, I went to prison in 84. My mother lost two sons speaking of that. Michael Derrick Hopkins, I told you January 29th, he'd been 57, 1966. The year 84, I remember, it was the beginning of 84 because of Sixers. Last championship was in 1983, if you're a basketball fan.

1:16:4784, I was booked. 84, my brother got killed. Shirley May Hopkins lost two sons in 84. I was told by Trama.

1:17:05That was a key, key, key.

1:17:15Push and experience that I had to do something to make up proud. To make up proud once I get out. Still got years to do. Five, five to 15. So try five out of 15, the way the Pennsylvania parole board works. If you get out on your minimum is five, you can do the 15. You get into a stab and get write -ups. You do something in there that can be a crime too. The five is the minimum, the 15 is the max. So I had to walk straight line amongst chaos. No confusion. Everybody 90 % of people there, they know what they're there. Fuck what they say. They know what they're there.

1:18:18That moment after the first year of establishing myself, filling out the environment of who you do, who you stay away from, who to snitch, what guard, what CEO is good, what CEO is not. Most of the CEOs live in the same neighborhood, you grew up at. It was the brother of your uncle, friend. We never had a felony, so you got a full application, you got a job and that needs to CEO. I know your dad. Okay, thanks. Hey, CEO, can you get an extra commentary? So you're not really protected by nobody because anybody can sell you out or do a favor.

1:19:24But what I'm trying to understand is, just physically, I understand that you didn't party, I understand that you're very disciplined. But how are you physically able to compete at that level, deep in your 40s? Because again, lifestyle, but everybody else falls apart. Because everybody else is doing what everybody has been doing. Well, physically, physically, I was always, even to the day, I pay attention to what I put in my body as who I am. Not what I actually looked like. And I understood that most people that I've seen in my time in boxing, Florida is disciplined the same way it don't drink or smoke and be sitting right there in the club and everybody doing everything else.

1:20:13You heard that before, it's all over. You got those type of people like that. But genetics plays a, my grandmother lived in 1999. But then again, do I really take all the eggs and put in that basket because my father and mother died before 60. So I would say the lifestyle, I would say the mindset or the teachings or both hit, not get hit. You know, rebookse a lot, do something to exercise your brain, take care of your physical body. Dependentuary. Dependentuary taught me more going there once I got there to understand what I wanted to do. I wanted just lifting weights in a weight yard and be swallowing up around a bunch of men for five years.

1:21:02I went and understood that a, after a year went by, they got a boxing program. I wanted to get off the block to go to another block in the guard, CEO said, where you're going while 41, 45, hey, I'm, I'm going to the gym, but I'm trying to go in A block that hang out before count to go back on my block. If I don't do it, if I don't get older before count, I get it right up. So I was forced to go down the gym and seeing people sparring and I said, I want to be a part of that. And I got my ass beaten lesson and I didn't like it and I never been afraid to go in the gym again. 30 years later, I said, I would never go in a ring or any situation, it will repaired or unrepaired.

1:21:57I'll always go in and prepared. That lesson that I said to you, then and I'll say to you now, be in an institution, having that experience, going in and in the gym for the first time and say, after a year went by and only by accident that I went down that gym because I was headed to another block as I said earlier. And then get down that gym because boxing was in the penitentiaries in that era. We had boxing there attached to the AAU, which is the same thing they have outside. It's the bring young fighters in there to fight us, the amateurs have showed for the inmates. You buy a ticket at the commissary, you go to the fights that Friday and inmates watch you, root for you.

1:22:55I didn't like how I felt. I wasn't prepared. They beat me because I wasn't better. I got beat because I didn't run. I got beat because of the ego. I got beat because as they say the word hater that I go down this high, you know, you won't get in there with them. Yeah, come on. I said boxing. I was in the streets. You know, that's just the common talk. I actually do this when I was in the street. Okay. But those same old -headed trainers that had double life or one life sentence or two life sentence, they spoke about me on behind a glory, Brian Gumball. Look it up. It's out there. They spoke about me when I visit that same prison in my early professional career.

1:23:48Guess what? Dorn what? Sparring for my Atlantic City preliminary fights when I was building my record to get to where I became a champion. I became the USBA champion, which is a sister of the IBF World Championship belt.

1:24:09I left that institution. Anyone would have ran much far as far as they could. They would have ran so far from that place. And never want to say it again. But after six to seven months of coming from a first professional loss with Clinton Mitchell in the Atlantic City, look it up. I took off 89 and 90. The streets was grabbing me. I still had seven and a half years per on to the math nine years. I rebooted my first fight. I believe it was in 91, 90 and 91.

1:25:00But that crucial moment that year and a half, if you look up my record, you'll see Clinton Mitchell 89, 89, 90 and 91. What was happening in 16 months? I made a decision meeting the old guy named Boye Fisher, God Rassistor. He wanted to champion, we wanted to championship. He should be in the Hall of Fame because of me. I'm already in there. I'm the only fighter he ever had. Very food training is going to Hall of Fame with one Hall of Famer or Fighter. Fighter gets in, but the training might not. And I'm not saying it's bad or good. I'm just saying that's how it goes. He made a, and I made a, a bet.

1:25:56You being it? This is out there. You being a gym tomorrow in the next day and every day. That we in the gym, I will be here. He heard young fighters come through. He heard guys come through before. Oh, he trained me. I'm a be here tomorrow. You might come tomorrow, but they don't come to be a champion every day. That the gym is open. And we had a bet without even saying it is a bet. He asked me to come and he would be there. If I come, he said he would be there. And it was sort of like, and to the point we stopped even thinking about it. We just repeated it to the reporters and everybody that talked to us.

1:26:46So that's how we met. How long after your first professional loss do you hook up with Booly Fisher? 80, 90, more than 91, 92. So that's 16 months. That's when you hook up with him. And how long do you spend training with him before you have your next professional fight? All the way up to the Trinidad fight.

1:27:12So during that 16 months off, will you just train it? Were you just improving? Yeah. But the training was fighting. You have manatories. I had two fights, maybe three a year, until you established yourself, normally two a year, once you get at that level of, you know, competition. But yeah, I stayed in the gym. You heard the same. The gym rat. I was a rat in that gym. I stayed in the gym. And one thing that I pass on to the Golden Boy Fighters today, because they can, they come to me. They ask me, of course, but I wouldn't need, right? Right. History normally repeats itself.

1:28:06Watch old fights. The old fights they watch in this hour era. I say, not only that, go to the next era. Go with brothers back that you need to go to understand that what you think you don't has been done already. But the booty of going back and getting that experience and add it to the land of time that you got the land you have land you can build a extension to the house. The land you have in your age and the time you now are developing, take knowledge from the cradle to the grave and take those recipes, put them together from the past. And you added to the foundation that you already have, which is you, your style.

1:28:52It will be hard to adjust to a guy that to adjust to be the guy that has more than one weapon. And I don't mean the hands. I'm talking about in a arson, in a arson, just hard to beat a guy like that. Joe Frager, great fighter, Hall of Famer. But never box like Ali, he came forward even though it was to his disadvantage. You in New York City at 12 noon, driving, but you don't have reverse, you're going to, you're going to get jammed up. Right. You're anywhere in there, you're anywhere in New York Times Square down there and you came back up, you're going to have a problem. I guarantee you, take that concept into a fight.

1:29:50You know that you got to back up or at least duck some of those, but you still condition to go forward because you've been successful all the way up to now. I never wanted that element of surprise. So I learned how the box going forward sideways. From Philly, I know how to go forward. But now I'll show you the boxing style. And I'm not sure that so I gave my opponent's fits on trying to find a strategy that I actually going to stick with myself that they can beat me on. And again, it was successful very few, but someone was successful and some got help. But I have no, I have no reserve politics and anything that happened in my career that I've done.

1:30:42And I say that at that moment, even though you didn't ask what you bought it up, the title, Trinidad, I've been in San Juan maybe two or three times. Do I know for sure when I went there and eat food that's my spit in the kitchen in my food? I don't know that, but I can tell you the love that I got, the response that I got. And it's not the same generation, but it's always a OG hanging around cigars, Panama hat, come right out. You're pronouncing it. You should be telling me. You know, here I'm in San Juan and I got the generations all in between surrounding me, saying, you're a great champion, sign gloves, sign my autograph, come on.

1:31:41You really mean that, Papa, you mean the mean? You do the flag down. You don't like Puerto Rican, so what are you talking about? We got a little San Juan and for love for you. Every city got a little San Juan. I said, but at that moment, I wasn't getting respected. It's a dying king promotion. I had to sleep business -wise to get the opportunity with Don for two fights. So I had a two fight deal, the tournament. And I'm the oldest one in the tournament. I'm the grandfather in the tournament that should be in the nursing home based on there. Well, based on most fighters of your era when they got to that age.

1:32:31Correct. But I understand. Right. How they thinking? But the difference is I'm different, but I got to prove it. Yeah. So now the promotion starts. We in New York, HBO, blah, blah, blah. I say, hold on. Tio Trinidad has multiple followers. He has a multi -meaned all -ah contract with TV. I'm the renegade. I had a tentenary every time the commentators bring my name up. He did five years for this. So I understand the Robin Hood and understand the bad guy. So you got the good guy in the bad guy that's for sales. I get it. But I didn't have to surrender to it. I knew the engine was. Now let me show mine.

1:33:21In New York City, I said, listen. This is the first four city press conference. I have 11 defenses. I stopped at 21, 22 defenses. I'm 11 at this time. I said, look, I'm the champion. Tito's come up the way to win my title. Diane King presented me a deal with my advisor, representative for a two -fight deal. The being is historic since Marvind Hagler, unders brewed a tournament for the Sugar Ray Robinson trophy. Don't pass that up because this takes me to start them. So I signed on press conference stars. New York. You want me to play second? Tito is more known. Tito just beat Oscar Delohoi by Spitt decision.

1:34:32Controversial not Spitt decision.

1:34:40I'm letting everyone know at HBO. Kerry Davis, Raw Screamberg, the suits at HBO at that time. Mark Tafford.

1:34:53I said, you going to Philadelphia from New York? Den Miami and San Juan. Promotional tour. I anticipate the bullshit. I'm going to play second because Tito has much fan -based in me. And the Latin market is huge, which, okay, I know that, but still. I'm not surrendering. You're still the champion. And I'm Bernard Hopkins. If y 'all don't respect me, when we go to this next city, because I threw the flag down in New York City, there's a park right next door across the street from HBO Buildings and Madden. Came into the name. Now I can, but I don't remember the name, but it's there. And we had to press conference there.

1:35:56The flag went down to New York first. Dequired it up real quick because they didn't want it to spread like it already did. But it was already out through some reporters that was there. That was the first stop. New York City. And they didn't respect me. And I said to them, we're going to do these next cities. And y 'all don't worry about me. Y 'all not being conscious of this flag going down again. Then respect that I have 11 defenses. This is my division. Tito is coming up to my division to make history. You're going to respect me. I'm going to be first. And I'm going to be last through this tour that we're going to do.

1:36:51I'm not going to play second behind. I'm just trying to win the middle battle before it starts. I'm not putting them up there like that. Y 'all can do it, but you ain't going to do it in front of me. It's going to be a problem. And we can do this press conference. We can go to Philly and we can go to Miami and we can go to San Juan. I know it's just like it happened yesterday. I said, but one thing for sure, I'm not going to apologize because that's what they wanted me to do. Where I come from, you don't punch a man or take his money until you say sorry the next day. You don't do that. You take it and you stand on it.

1:37:23And if you see him again, you take it again. I said, I'm not going to apologize. Y 'all can wait. We can go. So I want to go. It's for my people. Don't want to go because they got to take care of their dog or they got to put me to the doctors that I ain't here about until that happened. Let me know on my side. Anybody need to go. You know, cut man, my training. You know, if anybody, if anybody were about going to the next three cities, then let me know. Okay. I wouldn't apologize. Is it okay? They're going crazy in San Juan. Let me know before I get there, but now you know, this, we have security.

1:37:59They're going to have, okay, you had a, you had the Puerto Rican police watching. I got a student flag down in New York. So we get the Philadelphia, the press conference was smooth. We had a peace treaty in New York that nobody would, nobody would talk about it. We would be not going to bring it up, even if the reporters bring it up. Cool. Okay. Tito's on the same. Okay. Nobody. Everything we find, fully fine. We put his ass, we skated across, so they asked, Miami, fine. Of course, people asked it, though. This country is on the fight. It's going to be good. September 29th, you know, 9 -11. We all together, ride, ride, ride, you know, against the whole world.

1:38:44It's been, been churned up. It's the first big event in two weeks after 9 -11. My experience was there. Film everything. That's attached to my legacy. We get to Miami. He didn't get heated, but you know, people got big Latin community down there. You got, you know, kind of feisty, I would say. We get the same word.

1:39:13Roberto Coliseum. That year's sexual page, I heard, no, no, Roberto, you're on the Facebook page.

1:39:26Stadium is packed, pet rally. Tito, Trinidad. There's state police, stone face. Dave, I look, just point, go that way. Okay. I know I'm an enemy, so I'm playing chess, not checkers. And I know how to move my pieces. So I go down, okay, we got to go that way. We at the airport, San Juan, all the, the people that was, was there working was, it's flag, you know, Bobby, Bobby, flag, they give me, so we walking, everybody going one way. We get to Roberto Coliseum, motorcade. Press conference starts, seven, eight minutes, we're right in, packed. They get, you know, walk right in, fan, whatever. So that was the intimidation, plower, they was trying to do with me.

1:40:27I understood him, San Juan, away from home. I'm outnumbered, correct? They got the, calling certain names, you know, far as the show and HBO got up there and spoke. This is a historic boom of boom. So we got through that, and it's time for the fighters.

1:40:50I got up there, said what I said, did my famous throat slashing, Dicks, hits coming off. Then Tito got up there.

1:41:07He said a couple of words and banged down when you threw my flag. He broke the treaty. So now I went into my act, but serious. When you threw my flag, Spanish, it was crazy. They started throwing magazine reporters, they taking pictures, they, they looking at, so I, the tonight, everybody in the breaches was coming. We ducking, books, magazines. Now it's starting to get little pushy, pushy.

1:41:50So Don King in the middle, Trinidad got away from the podium. Don, like today, we take the fighters hands, a big fight is going to happen. Don waving a flag before he done this hand raising, which he didn't get chance to do rather before he attempted to do it. He's waving a flag in this own video, he's waving a flag.

1:42:21Tito broke, he broke the treaty, he's supposed to say nothing, but he home, right? I got to counter that. I got to counter that. I got to do something so risky that is going to, I hope, be world news. Don was fighting me not to get, I grabbed the flag from his hand. We tussled three, four minutes, three seconds, excuse me. And literally four seconds was quiet.

1:43:00When that flag hit that ground, it is right here. Don telling me back up, I'm pointing my finger at Tito. I snatched the flag out of Don saying his eyes open up, everything is when the fans from the front was already coming down. That's why my guys, Joel, they were saying, come on, let's go. So they was taking me up to the balcony where I had to jump down in between the bleachers. Like I had to get down to the dugout basically to get free to get away because they was coming up. They was taking me up because they was coming past the reporters. They was coming from to get me going up. We couldn't do nothing but go up.

1:43:51And the only way to get down was to jump down like the dugout that you go through. This is after you threw the flag down. Of course. The flag went down. When the flag went down, they were just coming. Somebody hit me there, whoever the guy was. Nazim Richardson is behind me with the Koofi Sharif. All my guys, two of my guys, the rest of the people just hit me on my back.

1:44:26And throwing things at me. So they just trying to now actually get away from the crowd that's coming up. Where I'm going, I don't know. I jumped down that opening and that's when the Sharif or the bleach said, look, that way. He wasn't helped. So we found a room. I locked myself in the room, holding the door. Now, we're trying to lock the door, but the door is like a harm. If they're pushing the door, we holding the door. We've got to hold this door like this. Anybody that remembered that moment after they heard his podcast, it rained. Look, we all know how the tropical storms come. When you over the Netherlands, it rained so hard around the time that we needed to get out of there and get straight to the airport, which they took us.

1:45:23Motor key cops on both sides with fans and cars. Rotten on the side in behind us is like 95 on the East Coast. It was like I 10 crossing West Coast to the East Coast. The day was on, I asked, going to the airport, that moment, that moment that I got on that airport, got to the airport and got on that plane, that moment in a week to come before September 29th, 2001. Tito had to train from my perspective, and I said this, lean up to the fight when I had interviews and mention it because the flag was brought up, of course, in the riot that I called and instigated.

1:46:19Tito had to hit that bag with that thought of hitting me. He had to train and run. He had to be reminded because he always stayed in San Juan and train. He rarely went to camp, if he ever went to camp to train. He stayed in San Juan, he stayed here even to the day. And Tito had to hear something from whether his siblings, cousins, uncles, next door, whoever, wherever he was at for training camp in San Juan, someone was reminding him the name that they was calling me is Diablo. They was calling me all kinds of stuff and I wore it like a badge of honor because I wanted to send a message and I wanted him to go through those four or five weeks left because in 9 -11, they rebooted to the 29th.

1:47:21I wanted him to think about me every time he's preparing for that fight because someone's going to remind him, even if he's a guy that he's getting groceries from. And I wanted him to think about what I did and what he has to do. So now taking that strategy of Art of War because I want to fight a guy that's mad at me, not a guy that's trained and playing and got a skill set of how to beat me. Give me that angry man every day. I love the angry guy because he's going on a few motions and I'm going off of intellect. Impacts. Yeah. Business the same way. If you can get a mad, you can get him done.

1:48:23The intellect, the strategy. You trying to hit me and knock me out every time. The risk is always if I get hit, I'm done. But I take that because I bank on what? Defense makes a good offense. A defense maker good offense. A good defense is a good offense because of what? You have to earn everything you get when you hit Bernoulli Hopkins, the execution of the alien, the beehop. Three brands in three decades. Three brands in three decades. I can tell you a story about all these brands. I told you about the executioner. I told you that alien kept asking questions, reporters every time I was fighting in past 40s.

1:49:12Why are you doing this? We know you got your first dollar. We know you live right. We know you're doing this. They got taught us him. He not me winning. They got taught him me hanging around and they started asking questions. I said because I'm a fucking alien. And I struck that guy. Garb Sharif. I said Sharif, go get some Halloween. It's almost like the beginning of September. They have some green mat. I'm telling you, I'm more than something. What did they say? They were looking at us crazy. They thought I wanted to do it. You fuck guys crazy. What is crazy is your whole career. You'd come in with the executioner's mask on.

1:49:51The executioner got retired. Man, that was done. Look at the mask. The mask can't up on. The mask, the alien was born because of continue to be asked questions. And boxing. It's only sport. We see football. I mean, the Brady Brady and Brady did a hell of a job. I'm still. I know how hard it is to compete and continue to do it. But it wasn't that as hard as for me because I knew what I needed to do. And I knew my body wasn't the age that my birth certificate says. My lifestyle was my age. Ooh. Ooh. My lifestyle was my age. Not that birth certificate. And if you think that's just talking, then look at me.

1:50:38Look at me now. Yeah. I'm four pounds over my fighting weight until that is water. You got to give me two for just being water weight. Yeah. How do you not fight over six years and your four pounds over 175? Your last fight. That's insane. I'm a fucking alien. I'm an alien. What how did you learn to eat correctly? What did you, like, what was your diet like? I didn't have a diet. I don't believe in diet. The diet is commercialism. I believe in lifestyle. I believe in lifestyle. Eat to live not to die. It's in the teachings. But the child represents. It's in the teachings. Eat to live not to die.

1:51:28You are what you eat. If you eat like a pig, then to me, that's who you are. Do you have that right to do that? Absolutely. But if you come to me and you ask me for advice, which I get all the time, from people I know, and some people I don't know, you expected people I know should know that my consistency, and it's just who I am. I'm not a late knighter. I push myself to get rest early when I'm doing fights in different times on. As I leave here, I'm headed to Vegas to do what? A fight under Golden Boy promotion. So I know how to take that same. To relate on the questions that you just asked me.

1:52:19I know how to take those moments of rest. I know how to take those moments of being active. I know to take those moments of how to take care of myself like I'm fighting, but I'm not anymore physically. This is a different type of.

1:52:39Resume for me to do. So I have to go ahead and do what? Keep my mind straight. Answer some questions. What questions is coming from everybody? Is looking how you answer it to see if they can fill something in that gave them information? You know, I look at some of the politicians and I say sometimes they ask the questions just to give you a lot but nothing. Right? In boxing, there's a small percentage that legitimacy, the legitimacy asks you a question because they don't know. And then most of the time you've got to at least be under the pre -impression that they try to connect something that they already know.

1:53:37For instance, hey, Bernard, what do you think about Ryan Garcia, soon golden boy?

1:53:46Bernard, what do you think about Oscar is not telling the truth about something.

1:54:02My head is always on the swivel, on the block, but having your head on the swivel in this perspective is not looking because they see me looking. You know who they are when you're not, when they know you're not looking. Or they think you're not looking. Put it that way. That's who they really are. Not when they're in your face most of the time. Not when they're in your presence, but when they know that you are, or they think that you're not paying attention, that's who they really are. I'm watching them, not even looking at them. Deep lock. I know it's on my right here in the studio. I know it's on my left.

1:54:41Obviously I came in and I scanned it, but right now I know I was sitting right in the left, but I don't know what's in back of me. So I constantly, constantly put those messages out there when it's needed because they no longer can say I'm the parent or when they should say I was boxing to try to justify that I'm speaking of truth. But if they can convince most who listen what they fed and move out on what they fed with his newspaper TV, I only watch TV no more. I'll be living another country for that.

1:55:28Then the advantages to them, not to you. But once you start doing something that boxing business people don't like, why do you think you're seeing those fighters having nervous breakdowns in a rain crying? Heavyweight contender. Having breakdowns on the side of the rain, because today people that talks about dying king and he all what I know he is. I got testimony to that. You ain't got to convince me, but he ain't the only dying king out there, a personality and track record that some might think that there's only one mind, one entity that did extraordinary job with you like it or not. They came from, let's just think about dying kings, history.

1:56:39Here's a guy, a few hours from New York, I may have Philadelphia, excuse me, Cleveland.

1:56:49Take the system, the law, and broke some. And had that long 50, 40 plus something years to do with the rules that were set way before him and use it the way he'd done for so many years. Oh, but not like you, Patreon, nah, I'm just telling you he done something that's normally not done for a period of time from a culture that looks like me, that's my point. That's extraordinary. Normally it's the mob. From Vegas all the way to Boston, Philadelphia and every city in the state, I mean, state in the United States. To take those openings and opportunities to have a long extended decades of a run like that, now I know he wasn't his own 100%.

1:58:32Bals, but you get to the point we have a run like him so long, you get to pay your way out of paying somebody the first to start off. I'm pretty sure the Muhammad Ali, Sonny Liston, I'm pretty sure the 80s, early 80s, the 70s. I'm pretty sure they had the guys the suit and tie sitting there. I still think that Sonny Liston could have got up from the right hand from Muhammad Ali. That seemed like he was acting. That's Lewiston main, right? Correct. That seemed like the fix was in. And you talk about the fight with Newman Chinkle, you talk about the hanging fight that I'm pretty sure you see the same way I see.

1:59:33Who won that fight? And other fights maybe one or two more that was kind of bizarre, right? In the last few months. And we briefly talked about it and we got on something else which, how many in your mind I think works? I've been here for a couple of hours now. I got to understand how this thing is working out in the conversation of corruption, period. Period.

2:00:08There need to be brought to the forefront, there need to have a light flashed on the roaches. And then they are trying to scatter and just got to crush them before they get to a destination of retreat.

2:00:32This is long about conversation that we got into corruption. But what I wanted to bring it back to was like, it was your lifestyle, you're saying it was your discipline, but you put in your body what you needed to survive and thrive. It's a live, not to die. You didn't fuck around, you didn't drink, you didn't smoke, you didn't party, you always get sleep. Don't eat bad food, don't mess with sugar. I read everything. You read books on your kitchen. I read books, everything, I read the back of the label, the stuff that I was purchasing. I take my multi's, I never got into, I don't even like needles, better loan, better loan shots.

2:01:15B12s, I take B12s, I just get the B12 shots for energy, to losing weight. Whether it's water weed or not, I got two and a half, three percent body fat, probably up to three now. So the sponge gets to the point where it is what it is. Now you burn a muscle, now you lose a nutrients. So the first fight I ever heard that was eating organic. Yes, and I was like, to the day, as an ex -fighter, again, these stains make me feel good. And these stains, listen, I know how hard I need to work when I need to work. I know when I need to just blow some dust off of my body, just to get a little warmed up. So every day I'm not going hard, to the day I'm not going hard, I don't hit the bag, I ain't the bag since I retired.

2:02:08I ain't been in a boxing gym for what? My stuff is ways to keep the muscle that we lose at the certain age, every two years, a year and a half, you lose certain percentage of muscle. All right, I'm just trying to keep that depth. I'm a little good in my suits. You understand? What do you do now for working out? Well, I do some running twice a week, I do a long distance run, three and a half, four miles, pin or how, you know, my crew can hang in or how I feel. But three tops, I do a eighties, I do running, blow it out, I do, I should do that with Mackie Charlestone from, shot out to Mackie Charlestone from New Orleans.

2:02:50He worked with a couple of greats, even the tennis. So Mackie taught me a lot, he let my guy video eight weeks of training in New Orleans. He worked with Holyfield, correct? He worked with Bo, British Bo, he worked with Roy Jones Jr. and wound up to heavyweight the fight John Hulles. He worked with Dau Strober, Hall of Famer, baseball player, and he was one of the first guys to do like a lot of unconventional training. He worked with me, yes, he worked with me to build me up from 160 to 75, two way classes we talked about. So, and he still got to be in his mid -70s now and great shape. I believe he's still in New Orleans.

2:03:33We made history together. And one thing he did, I had a guy, right, don't have now, but his job was in my camp, was to film everything, whether we have an all day which we do on Sundays, right? Some said he's a fun peaking. My training boy, Fritz, just seen me sparring and said, well, we just did nine rounds. He ain't even breathing any sharp on the 7th of the 8th and 9th. We got to take a break, two days off. So, we have our sparring partners fighting. So, I said, have a guy named Lim Wood. He was basically like, I camp entertainment. Have you got like the eat? Just ask for his cares to camera.

2:04:15Camera quarter is big. And he filmed the off days, the sparring, the training that Mackie gave me the permission to use. Everything Mackie was building me up to be quick as a minute, just like a middleweight. Don't lose none of that, but have the structure of a light heavyweight slash cruiserweight, which at that time was 190 and is 200.

2:04:43Mackie Schoston taught me above and beyond from a science and from his route to add on to mine. And today, I passed that on to young fighters who asked or shown the video. Bingo. Here it is right here. Different things he did. Unconventional stuff. And you might look at it and say, with this guy's do a box of you don't punch like that in a ring, but the explosiveness that he was telling me moments of my explosiveness like that. Jumping off that and jumping on that has a lot to do with being in a ring when you're moving. And a lot of do when you like that counter right there and it kind of right hand.

2:05:27That kind of right hand. These are the things that he used to be the X -15 because you know, he got that service mentality. And he's telling you about that, the bombs and they come in and how you have to get in that man town of being in war. Like the all days on a Sunday, Mack used to come to Big Bear where I was standing at Oscar's facility at the time. Golden Boy was promoting the fight. And he would come and he would say, look, I'm a fly out there. We're going to go to the base and we're going to get in some number of, they can't remember, one of five fighting planes. He did the same thing in the Boy Jones Junior.

2:06:19Me and Boy got in the Hall of Fame at the same time, two years ago. So he has the same experience. We talked about it. Mackie taught me that, and you said unconditional way of training coming in showing you building you up, maybe doing this, doing that. But he took it to a sort of like a mental, you at war, you have to be certain ways at certain time in the fight. You might get cut, you might get in survival mode, but not show that you're surviving. How do you fight when you're tired?

2:07:02How do you fight when you're tired? Do you fight to survive? Means you fight just to keep the guy off you because you don't want him to hit you anymore. That's fighting to survive. Or do you learn how to survive and still kick ass? I learned to do that. When you see inside, I was brutal inside with my opponents. I'll beat them and hit them every way they can imagine to break them down. They call it, as the fighter would say, I filed him, or he hit me here, he hit me there. Old school, old school, if the referee is in the ring and we're fighting, we are fighting. Well, it's boxing. No, we are fighting.

2:08:02When you fight, they set the rules. You make the rules when you fight. If the referee is sleeping at the wheel and the referee don't see that you can plan it about something that he didn't see, then that's on you. Because the same thing I do to you, you can do to me. So once you start telling the referee that I did something to you, I already got your heart now. You want help. We always go back to what you eat. You don't eat. You look great. You should have a secret. You should die. No, I'll die as a lifestyle. I'm going to go back to this. Especially in sports. Any sports. This right here is so important.

2:08:59I was so in still wrapped up into the mental because this controls everything. This controls this. This body doesn't control this. They used to call weightlifting guys airheaded because they see this. They walk around but where is the strategy book? Where is the playbook? You don't have none. You just bring in a sore off shotgun to a fight. I'm coming with multiple opportunities to get you out of here. In sports. If you hit me, you hit me. I know that's the risk. But I got a better chance when I get you and I got more opportunities how I get you. That is important to me. When you talk about your overall biological age, how much of it do you think has to do not just with the lifestyle but with being defensively responsible?

2:10:08You never really took beatings in your career. You had good fights. But there was no beatings. No, you're always defensively responsible. Yes. Because I want to be able to have life after boxing. And you maintain that discipline while you're fighting even in the heat of a battle? I maintain that discipline to not overreact and get excited even when I'm the hunter or a hundred being hunted. Even if you look at that photo, the video that just showed, if you landed that right hand, your chin is tucked. Yeah. You're always tucked. You're tucked. Yeah. And that habit, I was taught that. How was I taught that?

2:10:56In prison, everybody wanted to see their work. They call it mire and your work. You up, chin up and you look all good. Even hitting the bag. The way you hit the bag is the way you're going to hit your opponent. Your stance has a lot to do. Whatever you do outside the ring, you're going to do in the ring. Did you keep something under your chin? Tennis ball. Tennis ball. Yeah.

2:11:23Not only do you keep it under your chin when you're hitting the bag, the bag don't have arms. You got to visualize that bag of arms. But try doing it when you got a guy that can fight at least 60 -70 % to give you some good work. And you got to have that. And every time you drop it, you got to do extra round. I got some rounds in. Brother Nazim. Brother Nazim. Brother Nazim. But he's seen in the yellow shirt with the comfy breath. Correct. Yeah, give me one more soldier. Give me one more round. Oh man. Because you know, I ain't going to say I ain't got it. Put the ball under my, and we rumbling.

2:12:07Now, they don't mean that God knocked the ball out. It's possible, but you let it go. Right. And I'm punching and ducking and getting hit, but that ball better be able to bow ring. Hmm. Oh, that's so hard. How many guys trained like that? I don't, I haven't, I passed it on. I passed it on, I mentioned it. I passed it on the tennis ball. We call it the tennis ball. Ryan Garcia could use that advice. A lot of times he'll stand straight up. It's too late. Yeah. Too late? Yeah. And he says, he says, he says, he's young guys too late. When, why is too late? I believe. Because of the arrogance of saying what you need to do, knowing what you need to do, and doing what you need to do, and be consistent, consistent about it, is a whole other conversation.

2:13:19So either they do that or they don't. And if they don't, they're never going to make it all the way. Anybody they fight, they recognize it and discipline the weight to that time come, and be real about it, will be victorious. This doesn't say that championship of the world will escape him, or he will never achieve that. Absolutely he will. And this error, especially, no disrespect. But in the same token, bad habits, or a bad habit one day will kill you. I didn't need, or kill your career. I didn't need to be burnt four or five times once I got of knowledge that I didn't like that. I went through all the juvenile system in Pennsylvania, then state in 17.

2:14:38And I said it because once I got a taste and understood my value, and understood what I need to do to be successful, then I'm here. I mean, the same dream talking. Right. This getting up, putting that working, understand that everybody ain't going to be for you, and everybody ain't against you. But how you get the better of both, you let the adversaries of the other side, you let the opinions negative or not. You have a contest amongst those who say, why you want to do that, it's impossible, no, that can't happen. You're going up two way class, man, you two old, you're still fighting. But about congratulations that I, one of, so I look at all these things and reflections from time.

2:15:37And I say to myself, I'm so glad I didn't take people that vice. But just so amazing that you didn't listen to anybody. And it almost like it's sealed your resolve. Because when they were telling you you were too old for the Kelly Pavley fight, and you knocked him out, and then you continue to fight at a world -class level after that, it's like he's not even done yet. Because everyone else, I mean, if we go back to some great fighters that, you know, I was always a big boxing fan, like way back into the 80s. When those guys hit 34, 35, 36, 37. The clown is coming. And some of them even before that, you know, some of them, you know, you just expected to see the decline and the decline with you never came.

2:16:27Never. Never came. Never. Never came. And even in your last fight, like when you fought Joe Smith, when you went through the worst. Who's fighting this Saturday? Yeah, he's fighting that. That's what I'm going out to promote. That's going through the ropes like that. It's scared that shit out of me. Because like, what was below those ropes? Was that just cement? Did you just fall right out of cement? Yes. What the fuck was going on there that they didn't protect the fighters more? One of the things of safety that has been elevated to a level than 20 years ago. But to me, there's more need to be done.

2:17:03I'm not the only fighter either got knocked out a ring or fell out a ring. But it should be Paggin. Yes. Across that ring. 100%. Even wrestlers that wrestle in college and sports, professional wrestling, they have a Paggin that incase someone goes through the ropes. That can take some of the shock of their head. Did you lay it on your head? Yes. Damn. Well, terrifying. You always float with fall out that ring. You've a couple of feet up in the ring. You can parallel yourself. You can ship something. You can die. You can die. Anything can happen. I was very fortunate to stay in the hospital to the next morning.

2:17:51Did X -rays, obviously, when I left LA to the fight with that, the form. I got checked out by my personal doctor and was very fortunate to be in great shape after that. Very fortunate. But again, I'm not expecting everything to be checked in a checkbox of A plus A plus A plus. But little big, important things. Little thing is A, I know you'll see some floor. Seem in floor. You hit that, you hit it going crack like a coconut. So again, to me, majority of the people that surround boxing is not around for boxers itself. They're around for money. Correct. And clout. And clout. When you fell through those ropes, man, it scared the shit out of me.

2:18:57Because I was watching the way you fell. I'm like, damn, did he just land on his head on the concrete? Up. Backwards, though. Yeah, backwards. Backwards, right through the ropes. Yeah. And the ropes seemed loose. They wasn't tight. They was loose enough to actually, you could see the stretch of the rope when I tried to grab it. I tried to say I tried to grab it out the right hand. And the fact that you fell that way, I mean, that is fucking crazy. That is a crazy way to fall through the ropes. See, that's the shot I took, and I'm back up, I backed up, I'm getting pushed back and boom. And look at the guy.

2:19:34He just, get out of the way. Get out of the way. He got out of the way and let you fall right on your head. And that was the big thing too. And that's like a four foot drop. That's a big drop. I'll say five, five to four, yeah. But if you look at, if you look at where, how the guy just stepped away, then he put his hand up. Watch this. That guy could have caught you. What? Of course, no bad. He ran. Did you ever see that guy again? No. What the fuck, dude? Wherever you are. I'm not saying he's not around. Wherever he is. I don't even know what he looked like. How do you not catch the mark on this?

2:20:02But now since you show that, he's not going to even come to the fight anymore properly. He shouldn't come to the fight. But, but, he, he got out of the way. Yeah, it's crazy. Crazy. He could have saved you. Yes. From falling. Yeah, he could have saved the back of your head. Yeah. And possibly the fight would have went on because I would have got back in the ring. Yeah. Did you know going into that fight that was going to be your last fight? No. You were 51? 51. 51. I mentioned that it was going to be my last fight. But I didn't know because if I would have got past Joe Smith, what I couldn't tell you right away that an opportunity of history would have made me think about the next and didn't got out.

2:20:55Right. But it was promoted as your last fight. Correct. And, and my family, people that were around me, we was all locked in on the last historic fight of my career. With Joe Smith, who I never even to that moment, unestimated, knew he was young, strong, big, big light heavyweight. Right. I'm not a big, you look at me right now, I'm not a big light heavyweight. But I started at light heavyweight in my career, if you look at my record in a weight, I'm not down to 60. Because that's what my training said, you go on, you're a midweight. You've got a little fat there, you've been in prison, that's water weight.

2:21:47You're going to eat better, you're going to run better, atmosphere is better, I start slimming down. Oh, you're right. How the way it is. So I melt down, I did the opposite of the rules. I melt down to 60. Normally, you come up two weight classes, depending on the weight division. Because you're growing to that weight, or you eat your weight into that weight.

2:22:14That moment, to outside of the ring, but family, was a moment to say that, that, but we know. As fighters, we know when it's time. Did you feel it? I've ran out of things to do, far as history making. Because even though I wanted to do something else, I beat that, winning, like I've been successful most of the time. That day to be great is real.

2:22:56And what's different, what was, what were I thinking, or what was different that night until it happened, until it happened. And that's the difference. Because you don't count yourself out into your out. And then I looked at it as time went on.

2:23:24You and I have been having a conversation for a few hours now. Like I played the industry for 58 years, right? Yeah. The three decades under my belt of boxing, right? Yeah. It doesn't seem like I'm slowing down anytime soon, right? No. I really sat home. Weeks after the fight was over with. And steady taking, because you know, the opportunity of the opportunity, this scene and opportunity is trying to make that fight my life at the end. I said to him, some industry or the atmosphere out there, they had one of the fruitangs that told dirt on my grave of legacy. I said, y 'all forgot something. Or y 'all want to forget, but I'm not going to let you forget.

2:24:31If you look at my life up to now in boxing and starting off before I became a champion in boxing, I said I lost my first fight as a pro. I lost my last fight as a pro. Everything in the middle is a story motivational, never give up story. But you should be worried about what I do next, because the way I started shows ain't the way I'm an in. So in this third or fourth chapter of my life at a young 58, faster approaching 59, the way I started shows that my character doesn't say I submit to the way it's going to play out or end. So now the fight is different. The fight ain't in the ring physically.

2:25:39The fight is around a powerful controlling and that's boxing attitude when things blunt in your face. That the fight I got down is the fight of sexual page in his error in baseball. The fight I have down is the fight that Jim Brown, Muhammad Ali, Bill Russell and all other greats at that time stood up when they need to stand up at that moment for that cause. I'll put them on notice before I'm putting them on notice again just because it's fresh that they're going to hear it again. That this fight is different than the fight that got me here. This fight is about here, discipline of patience, knowing how to use and strategize your chess board and the pieces that's on that board.

2:26:46If they willing to do what's been done for so many centuries, all the way up to now. Then only one thing I needed more for this fight is my health and my memory. They better hope I keep it. And that's the warning. The warning is that I am the sexual page of this error. I'm gunning for that legacy. I'm the Muhammad Ali when he spoke of his error for things that he spoke with the calm never called me in. He said that in the 60s in this country. That was one of the reasons why he was so important culturally. And that's why my idol other than Marvin Hagler, when I say idol, I'm talking about idol and not idol in him as my god.

2:27:43I don't him as an example. That there are some in any aspects of life that that that were risk at all. And those who listen and hear this and have already said it, I've done. They're listen. If it was 50 to 100 million dollars made in my career. They're play the game and eventually they trick me out of it later. That was left on the table because of this. Not because of the emotions because of this and because of because of this and because of that. Because once I understood I want to keep my mouth closed. I said, oh, this is how it is. But I needed power before I speak. I needed to be world champion.

2:28:28And my first world championship fight that we didn't talk about was Roy Jones during the 1993. RFK Stadium. I told you about the memory. Under the Riddick Bow, the head of the way champion fighting Jesse Ferguson. He was the main event. I was the co -man. Roy was the house fighter of HBO. Multi -time million dollar contract. I was known as the guy from Philadelphia, tough. Can give some work from the penitentiary. You know, you got to have the villain. You got to have the nice guy.

2:29:09And Roy gave me a lesson. A lesson of what? I wasn't ready. Boy, when I got that opportunity a year or two, a year and a half later. The RBF same title. vacant by Roy Jones Jr. Roy went up to 168. The next wait up. I'm in line as the number one, number two contender. I fight in Segundo, Macarro and Kito Ecuador. He can push that fight up here. See the first fight with Segundo, Macarro, which means second in Spanish. I called him second at the press conference. You will never beat me. I'm first your second. Segundo, your mother knew you was going to be second all your life. So we go to Kito, hostile environment.

2:30:05Kito at that time was at war. Conflict with Peru. But I was sold out by a promoter to get more money. To bring me there to fight a Ecuadorian in Ecuador. Joe, I get knocked down two times. Got up, fought my way back up. Finish the fight. Here I'm in Ecuador, being sold out by a promoter. I get to Ecuador 11 plus thousand feet above sea level. Probably hard and then we got a ride.

2:30:53Couldn't breathe the first second round. I've got to exhaust my exhaust to the max early on and fought my way with Segundo, Macarro. For the first fight we had. And get a draw in Ecuador, fighting Ecuadorian. I take it. I won the fight. They would have killed me. That's what the rumor was. If you would have got that decision in Ecuador, even though I fought my way back from seven to twelve, almost had them out if you look at the video. In a very hostile environment, if they would have gave me that fight, we wouldn't have left Ecuador. So they called it a draw. The OBF mandated that the fight must happen in 120 days.

2:31:57They had to get the work right away, but the energy was different than going to Ecuador. Don King wasn't sure of Segundo beating me in America. If he couldn't beat me in his hometown in Ecuador. So the promotion was kind of froggy. But we went through the process and I became champion in Ecuador. I mean, in America in 95 knocking out Segundo, Macarro and Land over Maryland. And then defended that title for twelve years. That was the first OBF title I had. Yeah. That OBF title based in New Jersey, East Orange, New Jersey. That OBF title was the title I had all the way up to the 20th of defense.

2:33:09That was the first title. And the politics and the confusion of boxing, there's so many belts. Yeah. Which makes it limited to be undisputed until undisputed today is being talked about more than ever now. Did you watch the fight the other day? Which one? Canelo and yes. Did you see they picked the screen up for not Hopkins as the last or the reboot of the undisputed and then they had all other names. In the full belt, full belt era and the full belt, full belt era. My name is up there first. Now, showtime, even though I've been on showtime more than I've been on HBO, but the politics ain't there for me because of the players they work with.

2:34:02I get it. But it was hard for them to try to cut that out. They couldn't. I said home and I laughed. I had laughed mouth on that. I laughed. I said because I know for a fact that if they can take that name and share less light on Bernardo Hopkins, then it was great. And even though you didn't ask this, my case and point is this. All stuff I told you earlier, what I just said now, the Ryan Cross saying take fight. We was the second promoters. They picked up the bigger money, big fight. It was a PBC, right? Card. Al Hamen card. I ain't afraid to say his name.

2:34:59They try to outs me or you follow my pit. They try to out pit everything. I waited for about two weeks strategy on a war. Sun zoo. I waited. You didn't ask but you let me talk. They slayed us. We didn't come to the dresser room. You heard about that. I was going on the wine dresser room. We abandoned him. I don't know if you heard him. We had posted a band of them. We looked like this bag. We looked like scumbags. He loses now that the motor is, you know, and if you got any other gender, any other gender from whatever you got it from, or why you had it, this is your time now to show yourself. So I waited, waited, waited, waited.

2:35:50And credit to joy. My assistant slas, fiancee, she said, I got out of video. You don't know. I was video on the corner of everything. Why would he say you didn't come? So I said, you did what? He said, sorry to you that didn't work out. And you was telling them that ask, we got a death threat and the bodyguards took him out. He was in the dresser room. And both I said, you have it. I said, so, so, so, so, so, because we're getting slayed public opinion. Right. Oh, I still got for the dining throughout yet. She said, here it goes. So I looked at it. I said, you know, I need this. Let's take our time.

2:36:41Take a deep breath. Strategy or emotions. Intellect. Intellect or emotions. Strategy or emotions. Let's put all together. Take a deep breath. I said, first of all, thank you. Right? Look for, you know, not now, but a raise coming soon.

2:37:02I said, now, you good with this Instagram stuff. I'm totally like I just come home from Penitentiary. I'm lost still. But still, I can't keep up with it. Good. Much while we're all sunken, but I'm good to not keep up. But I can't misspell in words. It's a pinch of your hair. This is crazy. But, but let's. I said, listen. We begin herring less to say, I know, I know. I'm. I can't. So I say, look, you good with this Instagram. Let's just break this up certain days and make it make sense. Not just throw it out there. We're going to. What are you? So we he said everything he needs to say. Now we got to come with what do you mean?

2:37:49Not in this corner. What do you mean? We're missing. What do you mean we're in short, but the press conference. They wouldn't let me in the fucking ring. If you go to my Instagram, you'll see the. They they they they they they know you can't they blocked me from getting the ring. Would they expect it? Would they expect it from me? What's this move? Thank you producer. Great guy over there. What's this move? Bernard can't come in the ring. Bernard can't come in the ring. Tom Brown. That's Al Haman's flunky right there. He's a promoter license and Al Haman hides behind him. So his name is Tom Brown.

2:38:24Al Haman hides behind him because by the Muhammad Ali act that I stood up for. It doesn't cover advisors. It doesn't cover consultants. So now those lawyers because he has a Harvard law degree. Al Haman. He hires promoters, especially Tom Brown, who come from the goosens in the Denver, Colorado. Known very well. He sat next to me. He said here, joy and me. I switched seats for joy because I told her Tom Brown is the eyes and ears while we sit in there. They had controls of the tickets. They had control of the show because they delete impromotors. P B C.

2:39:16So I was quiet ringside. All the fighters from their side was behind me. So I was in their road. That's the seats in the section they put me at. Even Oscar was to my right. They had me right near the corner, churn buckle. Because if you look at any golden boy fights, I'm always in the middle because we have control. And the fighters always look out. They got trainings. Don't look at me, but they do look sometimes the fight mode come in and I count myself. I'm learning to be more subdued while I'm sitting watching as the promoter. So they had my seat where the churn buckle, the corner, and the other side.

2:40:11So they were correct. So you couldn't see. So yes. So I watched for my seat lean to the right which I had a slightly better view. But those moments of the art of war, this ain't complaining. They were prepared, but I was prepared too. They knew I was coming. They knew the energy I was bringing. See, I wasn't coming. Listen. Oscar personality is not my personality. That's the best way I can explain it to you.

2:41:05If I see something, I'm going to speak on what I see. I'm not going to run and tell somebody what I can do and save myself. To me, that's a man. They was prepared because we did business before our him and branched off to do his company. He took 80, 90 % of Golden Boy fighters because those fighters including Floor Mayweather was under what? Golden Boy. So he took, per se, if you knew Musebinders, he took his catalog and started PBC.

2:41:54I didn't go. It's some bad blood because everybody knows the situation even to the day. Oscar definitely understands and knows it. I was a nail in a coffin if they would have got me to leave based on a contract that they gave me to leave. But what was in it for me?

2:42:23And I've seen that it was crowded over there at PBC. And I still, even to the day, understand the process is always a risk. But I'd rather be on this side even with the baggage.

2:42:48They wanted to predict, predict out the MISE. We're going to be in federal court in six months. Oscar will remind me all the time. You remember they said this partner? They're not going to last six months. He's going to see. They came back door to thought trying to poison the waters. So there's just a bunch of dirty business that goes wrong. Filthy. That's a good word. Filthy.

2:43:23So 20 plus years later, a lot of things in changing inbox, the name breaking news, but a lot of people don't know. A lot of baiting neighborhoods, one already left. H .B .L. is gone. Yeah. This is what I was leading to. Yeah.

2:43:42It's a whole churn as you aware of the churn. You haven't been in Austin a year yet, have you? Three years. Three, I'm up there. Three years, right? Three years, right? Yeah. But it was a reason to change from there to here. I assume. Yeah. Boxing is changing and half change, even more. So one left, 40 plus years, H .B .L., correct? And you being a boxed fan, I know they kind of heard it. Yeah. Now, my prediction is that Showtime is finally ready to pack it in. That's not good, but it's not a depth sentence for those who port a bootstraps up. And if you don't have no booth font, because this is a man thinking game, now check it.

2:44:45Do you think the future is in string? Showtime will pack up boxing only. Does that have to do with it? I'll be surprised if they got another year left. It does unfortunate, because that leaves the zone that leaves ESPN plus. It's not as many options. Now, this with a creative creativity has to get in, play now. You say you are who you are? This goes for everybody. It's all, we all got blood on our hands and someone, hold up. This is when the creativity now kicks in. You say who you are, you on the block now. You say who you, okay, right? First of all, you don't too much talk, because we ain't real.

2:45:35You got to get tried right away. This is the trying time now. Let's see who now can sink a swim. Golden boy also, all of us. So now this separates the men from the fakes. Now, if you've been fraught and hiding behind, and you had a time limit when you're going exit, and you prepare yourself, then that's one that it should work good for that person, that thinks that way. There are fighters on the other side that got to pay every time they fight, and then the other entity. Joe Rogan has a promotion box, and you got 10 fighters on your side. Just say I'm Golden boy, I got fighters on my side. You ain't seen, because you hire somebody to do your business for you, so you can hop back and hop you on a scene, but you have knowledge of law, so you know how to manipulate certain things.

2:46:35So, if you risk having a contract Monday, but no one thinks you can change as time goes on, you want to tie your Campbell. What do you mean? Well, if the world runs dry, if that fighter goes and fights at another house, another promotion, that you ain't no longer controlling, the fighters now don't start to look at the contract and say, I give up 35%, I give up 40 % of my purse, even though Bob Ames don't fight, Golden boy is don't fight. That's what promoters do. Now, you realize that at the wrong time, 9 out of 10 at the telling in your career, whether you're in your 30s, you mentioned it to age, normally 30, 34, 35, you normally pack an up ready rollout, try to get a couple of paidys here and there.

2:47:29Yeah. But there's a real bad taste in a lot of business people, TV, and also fighters that realize everything was great, you bought your car, you bailed, don't change, you got upkeep. You got to keep that lifestyle or you got to understand how to live different. Right. And that's the shock that they're seeing now that they've been manipulated, bamboozled. And the only thing, which is not only, but the only thing that some would say to justify the dying kings of this era, they got paid.

2:48:24They got paid, you give ignorance money, they're going to be more ignorant than they was when you gave them money, but after they gave money, they ain't going to be smart because you gave them money. Other than the business of boxing, though, how do you feel about the sport? How do you feel about the sport today, like the caliber of fighters? I'm sure you must be a fan of Terrence Crawford. Yes. No, my favorite guys to watch. Fendama, best switch hitters in Smarvin's house. Yes. Yes. You know, we tried to promote that fight and he had a choice like we all do and he chose to do what he needs to do.

2:48:58And he was successful with it. Absolutely. A technical, technical, serious, mentally strong. And definitely can be around as long as he wants to. Yeah. Bad ass. Yeah, he's a bad man. And there's a good crop of people like that today. Tank is another one. Yes. Phenomenal fight. Yes. Look, kid Austin is right on the hills. Right? Kid Austin. Correct. Bruce. And let me tell you, look, I can promote a lot of fighters. You expect him to mention a whole bunch of names. Got, you know, got this week's Zoto making a comeback after getting dominated, right? Real bad overseas. But that was the first shot in the CIS bounce back now.

2:49:49This is the career going forward. Morghea. We got, it's a lot of talent, even on other side of the street, the next house, the next promotional house. There's so many fights. But you know what, Joe. Doesn't mean squat if they don't get made. Right. You and fans around the world want to see the best fighting the best. I did a segment for four episodes of interviews, interviews rather than episodes on fighting news. Talking about fights that need to be made and the first one out of the gate, hitting the pressure, running this mouth here. What's tank Davis and Ryan Garcia? It's there. How did you think that fight was going to play out?

2:50:42I thought the fight was going to play out and I anticipated the fight playing out where Ryan would use all the attributes that he has to his best ability. What I mean by that is stay out length, stay outside speed, speed. Remember, don't admire your work. Don't be the squirrel with your head up. Look for something. Keep it down. He mentioned it working and training that they was working on that. They was focusing on that. The reporters were asking, you're going to keep your head down. Of course, that's the easy thing to ask, but that's what he was known for. I wanted and I believe Ryan, when he said he's going to bottom, he's not going to get into his emotions and try to show Bravo like he's getting to a shootout.

2:51:35You're getting a shootout he's done. Right. Tank carries the power. He's sneaky explosive explosive. Yeah. You think you're doing something and he rides off that overconfident. We're now, he recognized this old school. He's so interested. Baltimore, Baltimore Merlin. He's so old school, new old school is. Yeah. Anybody that throwing punches is open to get hit. Anybody in everybody that throw punches, you leave an opportunity as who get there first. It's like fencing. When you throw punches no matter how straight, no matter how your stance are, when this becomes away from your body and things that you need to protect, the ribs, the chin.

2:52:29It's always an opening. It's always opening. Who get there first. And Tank is so good. Tank is so good. Tank will give you something that's really not there. It's literally, you know, you think it's, you know, about the three top, the ball and the three top hustle. You think it shows it to you. You think it's a couple of these. It's not there. He shows you something that is like an illusion. It might not be the first time when he tried you and you go for it. But it's coming. And that's how he said to you, he said traps. Yeah, he said traps and he's got ridiculous one punch knockout power too. He's just such an interesting fighter because his style is so different from everybody else.

2:53:19He's so conservative in the early rounds. Throw so few punches and he lets you work. He lets you work and you're backing up and you're always afraid of that power. And he's just moving in trying to find that opening where he just gets in there on you. Your mind is burning energy. Yeah. You physically burn an energy because you know, right? Even if he just touched you in an arm. You know based on what you've been hearing through the whole press conference and through the whole fight see happy for them. Yourself that you better get hit. Yeah. See power rules everything around you. One thing about power you can lose all the fights all the rounds and that power.

2:54:00Come on. Yeah. Right that would make the formings to my Tyson. John DeWilder. Power. Rooves. Yeah. I got one shot. And it's over. I can be losing a whole 90. I can be losing all the 12 rounds and hit you with that power. And to get to the 12th, 11th, 10th, 9th, 8th, you're walking in treading danger. You're walking through a minefield that any time, any false, any bad move. So fighting tankers like that. Yeah. All right. One last thing to talk to you about before we get out of here. What do you think about this crazy fight between Tyson Fury and Francis and Gano? What do you think about them? I like Tyson Fury, though, man.

2:54:51I like Tyson Fury. I like Tyson Fury because of this unauthored docs of even a way to look. Everything. Right now I ain't got explain anything else because you're on the same page. And I believe that the world understands that this ain't the truth. This ain't what we used to looking at. We talked about heavyweight. You're thinking of a guy you want a guy look like Lennox Lewis. Correct. Chisrant. Look at him. He likes tricking you too. He shows that big belly. Listen, he liked the guy Fred who dude like my mechanic. Yeah. He handles all. But I'm telling you. He's an animal. He's an animal. And he's promotable.

2:55:31Yeah. He's personality. Oh, for days. I mean, you can't like. But what do you think about Francis and Gano having a fight with literally one of the greatest heavyweight? He's always been a heavyweight of all time. And he's never had a professional boxing fight. Again. How did he get there? We got there from being the UFC heavyweight champion. Hope. But that UFC. Yeah. Exactly. Listen. I can visualize you and I sitting right here. Right? You got the, you're day and a white right now. Okay. Okay. You're day and a white. I consider day and white a friend. Right? I really do. He's definitely a sports fan.

2:56:09Anything. Oh, yeah. But look.

2:56:15Half of this is show the other half because of Tyson Ferry only is a boxing match for a belt I'll assume, right? There's some. Exactly. They got somebody to put something together. I got you. Yeah. Somebody pay day. It's a pay day. Yeah. Right? Can I know pay day? Yeah. This doesn't, nothing other than pay day for Tyson Ferry. He lose to a UFC guy, which I'm saying he won't. I bet, I bet everything I love. I bet everything I love. Yeah.

2:57:03Entertainment on a higher level because of Tyson Ferry. Right. But also because of the novelty of this UFC, your heavyweight champion leaving the UFC and securing this boxing. Anybody that leads the UFC, undefeated or not undefeated, would not be successful on that level or any level where fighter on a boxing level has a heartbeat and possibly a pulse that's going to beat victorious. That's why it becomes a show more than the real deal. And that's why it's not even being talked about as a heavyweight fight from a heavyweight fight that we know. Not for the boxing champion. Correct. Because they don't, we don't sainch in that, man.

2:57:45But does it upset you that this guy jumps in front of the UFC, jumps in front of Joshua, jumps in front of anybody else in the division and gets to fight Tyson Ferry or do you think, hey, good for him. He gets this payday because that's how I feel about it. No, I fit into that. I love Francis and I'm happy that Francis is going to get a whopping bag. But let me, let me now, that's emotional. Yes. But in the sports and where I come from, I'm biased to. Yeah. I think in Tyson Ferry, Ferry has a fruit top people that mean you would love to see in spite of who he's ready to fight. Yeah. Correct. Oosik is the first.

2:58:27All right. And if Oosik not available, I think that Tyson Ferry would beat him. But about wilder. Yeah. I mean, Joshua. Yes. Right? Yeah. Where there's heavyweights out there. There's in a top five. I only say 10. That's a better and have more credentials than what's happening. And you're right. Correct. Yeah. Who to me, why do you think he's trying to get a fight now? Yeah. Right? He's trying to get a fight as we speak right now. And not a big heavyweight, right? In some cases, you'll think of blowing up cruiserweight, right? Not a big eye, right? You'll think they'd be chopping at the bit. They're going to make millions of dollars.

2:59:20That fight there is more credibility. And more, I guess, what people want to see, then entertainment that Tyson Ferry is ready to show this week. And he gets to knock out within five rounds. You think so? Yeah. One other guy I want to talk to you about that I don't think gets enough credit is Arthur Bitterbeef. That guy is. That's awesome. Motherfucker. Be it a hit or no. I mean, he can't secure that big fight. And that's one of the reason why dangerous. Dangerous. 19 and old, 19 and 9 rounds. But this is the thing about the generation of fighters, not all, but most. They don't want a L or an A record.

3:00:12Who would have thought the legacy? They want the back, of course, but they don't dare to be great. They want most of them want to fight. The fights that they have a better chance on winning. And when you tell most of them of this generation about history, they look at you like you got three heads, like history. Like you talking late 20s, early 30s or younger. You talking about 25 years from now, they're going to be and this is the Jake conversation. They look like you like 25. You talking to a 19 year old who don't understand that time go by. Pass so fast. So fast. Time go by so damn fast and boxing.

3:01:07I started at 25. Some fucking heard of. I started at 25. I had the room based on lifestyle, based on offense defense, based on my mental. I stressed it out. Stressed it out. And part of that time, you got to look at the time I started late as a pro. Now that's an amateur, but as a pro, I ain't when no AAUs and no golden clubs and no Olympic gold medal, but I had regional, I had local fights in the city. Little tournaments here and tournaments there. But I look at all these things to answer questions that ask all the time the way I just said to you and explain to you about all these things, whether it's the boxing politics, the fighters that's fighting now each other, the fights that schedule the fight right now.

3:02:08This is a great time for good fights to be made. Let's make them. Let's make them. Bernard, your legend is an honor to have you on here. I really appreciate you being here. Appreciate it. Best of luck with everything. Thank you very much, sir. That's for real. That's an honor. I'm always been a giant fan. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Bernard Hopkins, ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much. Live with us.