JRE MMA Show #158 with Tank Abbott

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33:34There's another element and that's what you're talking about. If you put it to UFC 6, that was the awakening of the guillotine choke because you had Jiu -Jitsu. And the wrestlers came along and started handing it to the submission Jiu -Jitsu guys.

34:02Then UFC 6 came along and they came up with the guillotine. If you, they, Oleg got the guillotine on me twice and I fought myself out of it. I don't, I've never timed it or whatever, but it was a while. I was losing consciousness. I was seeing black, but I got, I pulled myself out and in fact you brought up the fish hooks. When I finally, the first time, he got it and I pulled my head out and he was laying there and I'm like, what are you going to do now? And then I reached down and fish hooked and I'm going to start banging his head on the floor. When you look back at yourself then, does that even seem like you?

34:47Yeah, why not? I mean, of course it is you. But I mean, the young hulking you smashing guys. This is also just the one round, correct? Yes. 17 minutes round. Yeah, there's no rounds. Was it, did they have a time limit on any of the fights? No, and I would have won that fight of big John McCartney when the Vah stuck his, his melon in between us and break us up. You know, that's how you were talking about how they fixed the fights and everything. He broke this fight up. There were no rules not supposed to do, look, he's breaking us up. Why did he do that? Why did they do that? Yeah. Where people booing?

35:36Yeah, that was all John McCartney. McCartney, why did he break us up? I don't know, like, what were the rules back then as far as we looked at it? There were no rules. All that I had to do was give him a track starting gun and you can stand there and go boom. And that's all he needed to do. He just had to start the fight. And so this restart was just completely because of him? Yes. And yes, he's corrupt and he's a crook. His idea of what he thinks fighting is and he's a full on Oleg O submission guy because he's all into technique. I don't know this, he's never said it to me, but he's all into skill and everything else.

36:24He has no respect for fighters fortitude or anything like that. You don't think he does? No. I think he does. Well, I mean, I think you have like a personal dispute with him, but I like Big John. Well, you might like him, but he leveraged his made up persona, Big John, to get me kicked out of the show. Him and his wife, they got me literally kicked out of the show. You kicked out of the UFC? Yeah. Really? Yeah. What year was this? Very early. Why do they want to get you kicked out of the UFC? Because he does not like me. He's a cop and he doesn't like the fact that I'm probably in his eyes, a thug.

37:11But the point is he has a being his mind. He's never liked me. You know, he was a jujitsu student before he started in the thing. They, they, for the graces, they didn't have a ref. So Art Davey goes, Hey, what about that big guy? Big John. And then Big John was a cop and everything. And he did background checks on me before I got into the UFC. Like, Oh, yeah, no, this guy really. He's got a record. He's been, he's got, I've been a, a rain at least, at least seven times for beating people up. And shit was hitting the fan. And it was getting, it was getting bigger and more and more. You're going to get in trouble.

37:59It was pretty soon. Thank God I had a great attorney. And he, he was a guy that could point out the truth. And people would see that in the DA. We go, OK, community service. I'd go do, do that at the boxing gym.

38:19So anyway, so John checked into it and goes, No, this guy really is a, street fighting legend like Tank Murdoch. And obviously the guy's dad was a, was a cop. And that, I, underlying, it doesn't matter. But he did not like the fact that I came along after the Gracies, because he was like a stooge for Gracie Jiu -Jitsu in the whole nine yards. And when I came along, I kind of said, No, no, no, no. I, fighting is emotional. It's not a skill. It's not a skills match. It's, it's, it's what you have in your head. And he obviously doesn't have anything in his. But so, and Puerto Rico, I used to go around to dojos and go in there after I'd cruisin' around drinking a 12 pack.

39:21In my van. And we'd pull up to dojos and walk in there and go, who's anybody want to fight? And nobody did. And so, I lost my train of thought on that. But, oh, this is it. Okay, so, when I was, I was working out with weights. And I didn't, I wasn't a strong day for me. So, I got, you have to know when to say, not, not, not left in the day. So, I felt compunction and I needed to go do something. I said, let's go check this jiu -jitsu place out. They had flyers at the Westminster Boxing gym where I was boxing. After I left that Bakersfield thing. So, we go in there. And all the other kung fu and wing chongs and all that stuff.

40:16No one ever wanted to fight me. And I go, let's go check out this jiu -jitsu thing. See if it's real or not. This guy's supposed to be a world champion and all this. And since it's out there, I'll say who it was. But, was Alon goes. And so, he's supposed to be some world champion this and that. And at this time, we're totally green. They had a really respect for jiu -jitsu or anything like that. And I was with Paul, Herrera, and Adi Riss who are very accomplished wrestlers. And I go, let's go check it out. I'm not left in. Let's go see what this stuff is for real. So, we go into the jiu -jitsu thing.

41:04And it was a little bit of a drive. We get in there and I say, hey, we want to roll around with you and see if we check this stuff out. You know, and they're approaching. He's, oh, demonstrate on, demonstrate on. And I'm like, oh, what the fuck is this? Anyways, so one of the guys goes in the back. I guess they put cameras up in these little mirrored boxes that one way mirror things. And so, Adi gets up there and he's a little guy. And so, it didn't take him very long to tap him out with like an armed thing. And then Paul, who's a, is a, all American from Nebraska, a wrestler, bigger guy, 190 -ish.

41:55He gets in there and I'm like, what the hell's going on? Because they're lasting and lasting. And he's on his back. And at that time, it's like, what the, what are you doing? You're back for. He's stupid. You know? Yeah. It's totally ignorant of what was going on. Yeah. And I'm like, holy fuck, he ended up tapping him out. And I'm like, wow, he made short work of Adi. And he tapped out Paul and had respect for Paul for his wrestling abilities and where he'd gone and trained and wrestled for. And I was like, holy smokes. Well, I'm, I'm rather large and very powerful. And, uh, Alon goes is not. And, um, so I go, okay.

42:41Oh, they were starting on their, their knees and all that kind of stuff. And I'm like, whatever. So I get on him and I had a, uh, because a medical, uh, place the cut and sew place. I had a scrub on. So I'm, I'm on top of him and he grabs like a nurses scrub because they don't rip or anything like that. And he, he does like an ex on his thing and he starts choking me. And I look at him and I just kind of roll my eyes like really. Like I went like that, like fist on both sides of his face, you know? And he's like, oh, okay. And so we rolled around, rolled around, rolled around. And then he finally got to an arm lock.

43:27And like I said, I was, I was doing curls with like 120 pound dumbbells and stuff like that. And so I picked him up. Basically, he was like a foot off of the mat and I raised my right hand up and made a fist like, you want me to fall down on his eyes, got huge as the moon. No, no, no, no, no, no. And I'm like, okay, so I let him down and let it go. And he was like, oh, like I've had enough of this big guy here. And so we left and whatever goes on and somebody's had like, oh, who's that guy? I'm a narcissistic way. Oh, I go to him in arm lock. I would have used him for, it doesn't matter. Yeah, there would have been a whole bunch of bad for him.

44:25Gang slammed. Yeah, so Puerto Rico, I don't know. Paul was fighting in that show. Well, that show, um, it was David versus Goliath there. Oh, that's right. Did he fight Big Daddy? Yeah. And Big Daddy had a videotape of him. So he knew exactly what to do with that high crotch. That was all staged, not staged, but prepare. And so, a long ghost comes up afterwards, oh, this is all the way, full circle back to John. So a long ghost comes up after Paul gets elbowed. My big John didn't stop it. He knows. I know. But anyways, so he starts mouth and off. And I find he must have had too much alcohol or something.

45:24And I'm like, who do you think you're talking to? And, you know, like really? You were going to go there, okay? So he had like him and all his friends were behind him. So I popped him and was going after him. And me and Eddie were fighting the whole contingency of Brazilian fighters in the audience. And then we go to the back and I, old school lawyer, and like, no one sends you to the hospital, and I'm telling Paul, hey, fuck that. You're not going to the hospital. You don't do that. And he's like, huh? And there was a doctor, Eastergo, and John McCartney and his wife Elaine, who is Karen, I think her name should be Karen.

46:17And as Elaine McCartney, anyways, she comes running up and starts pointing her finger in my face and saying, I'll get the hell out of here. I'll kill you. You know, just hyperbole in the moment, charged type thing. They try to make a huge move out of that. And then also that's how you get kicked out. And then John's like telling Bob, oh, I'm going to quit. And Elaine's going to quit. And if you don't kick him out, that's why I didn't go to the show. In mind, you know, I was the personality of that whole show at that time. And I think they went to Detroit or something like that, after that words.

47:04And everybody's like, where's Takeda? There's the show. And they, Bob's like, we got to fix this. And so somehow a letter came up of apology to their leverage of they were going to quit. I'm like, who cares if they quit? He's just a referee. He pulls the trigger out of gun and then he affects fights by breaking people up and giving people chances and everything else. He's a corrupt person. And who cares? But I guess Bob was leaning into the fact like, oh, he's developed a personality for himself. Anyways, we're going to have this letter made. And we'll send it to the McCartney's and then they can be soothed.

48:08And then I'll be allowed to come back. And that was all around the same time with the Frozo fight with my knee messed up. And Bob being the slifter that he is. But don't you think it's also just possible that Jerry Bull ended up on her? Because he fought too, right? He fought a fight first, right? It's possible, but I'm kind of a cynic. A little conspiracy theorist. I see where you would feel that way. And I think in the early days, one of the things that Dana White does a really good job about is he talks to everybody. Have conversations with people. Sit people down, talk them, explain. This is great.

48:53This is not so great. This is what we think we could do with you. Back then it was chaos. Yes, absolutely. It was chaos. And a referee today, they're allowed to stand people up. Right. But back then, that was it. No, no, no, no, no. I understand completely what you're saying. Yeah. But back in those days, those guys set up a lot of stuff. What they set up. All right, it won't come to me right off, but I will tell you. I want to put you on the spot. No. So you think that they had people that they wanted to win so they made things work a particular way. Well, like the Don Fry fight, him fighting is the people's comment.

49:39It's not his friend. Mark Hall, that guy went out and did the job for Fry. It looks like he did. Well, no, he did. Yeah, it looks like it when you watch the fight. Yeah, he did. And they fought before too. Yeah. He just went out there and fell down. And then, you know, regardless of how easy my fight before is, mentally, it's a whole different ball of wax. Yeah, it's a different ball of wax. If one guy goes through a war and one guy goes through a real easy fight. Yeah, emotionally, though, in your head, like, oh, you got to get all ramped up to go. Especially if you had a real close fight, your legs got beat up.

50:17There's a lot of things that can happen. And one guy can knock a guy. The tournaments are so crazy because one guy, it's almost like it's better than not fighting. Because he lands one punch knocks the guy out. Like, oh, my God, I already won. I want to fight. I know I'm performing well. I didn't get hurt at all. And now I'm loose. My brain's loose. And then you could go through three rounds of hell with some fucking psychopath, where you're barely surviving both of you. And you get to the final round. And you're like, or whatever it was back then, it was one round. But you get to the final end of it.

50:47And you're like, oh, Jesus, I gotta do this one more time. For the guy who's fresh. Right. Yeah. And if you can rig that. And if you can, if you want to, you can set a bracket up. I'm not just accusing him of doing that. Well, same thing with that Anthony Macias guy that fought Oleg before me. Oleg went out and choked out his first opponent with a guillotine choke. Real fast. And then he fought Anthony Macias that winked at him right before the fight. That wink. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, obviously. Where do you want me to fall down? And who I fought the two biggest guys in ever fought in the UFC, a 400 pound guy in the six foot five, whatever, 300 or 280, whatever size you want to make.

51:42Real fights. Not some guy that's out there laying down going, okay? Well, the early days it was so it was so loose. And you never knew when it was going to go away because it was already getting suspended from cable cable cable kicked it off. You could only get it off direct TV back then. Yeah, a John McCain. Oh, not was it McCain. Yeah, John McCain. And John McCain allegedly was doing something for Bud Light. So he was working with Bud Light and Bud Light wanted boxing. Right. It's kind of, you know, the whole world was conspiring to keep MMA from flourishing back then. Absolutely. I mean, it was a real big deal.

52:24They would disparage it every time. It's funny. Fucking, there's a funny video of Bob Ayer. I'm talking about it. They're rolling around on the ground like homosexuals. I saw that. Yeah, I was laughing about that too. It's amazing. It's amazing because he's such an old school guy. Right. We have to say that. It's just very funny. Immediately I was like, what's his angle? Why is he saying that? He's just trying to say boxing. He's just silly because boxing is awesome. I love boxing. Doesn't mean the UFC is not better. Oh, no, it's a skill. Yeah, yeah, boxing is an amazing skill. It's an amazing skill.

53:02And it's a huge part of MMA. I mean, if you can't throw a punch, you really, you can't win. But it's a different thing. You guys are in, it's a game. It's a fighting game. Where is MMA as a fight? Well, boxing can be a fight too. But the rules are so specific. Well, why? So limited. When I went out and boxing, a task a narrow thing. I came back here and went to Westminster boxing club. I believe it is. Anyways, I had, I was fortunate. I walked in and Tyrell Biggs was boxing. And his trainer, Matt Kearhart, I walked up and I was a white heavyweight. And every back in those days, I go, oh, and I'll train you, I'll train you.

53:47And I'm like, okay, he didn't have time for me. So I was like, okay, I'm slowly learning boxing. And his underling was on charge of me. And I go, when are we going to fight? And he's like, oh, you don't just fight. You got to learn it out of box. I'm like, no, not me. I'm going to fight. He goes, well, there's a show in six weeks in here. And I go, that perfect. I'll do that then. You can't just do that. And I'm like, no, I can do that. And so, this is also one video. I fought some guy that had been boxing for like three years. And I knocked the stuffing out of him. And his mouthpiece went flying out of his mouth.

54:36And at that time, the guy that ran the gym was named Noi Cruz. And he was the trainer for Carlos Palomino. Old school Mexican, six foot two guy. But knew his boxing skills like Noi Demaro. And he went up to Mac. And he said, hey, that guy's got something you can't train. You guys can be in here forever. But I want to train that guy in Max. I don't have time for him. I'm with Tyrell. He goes, we'll split him, you know, whatever. So, from that point on after that first fight, I started rolling with Noi, not rolling, but boxing with him. And he's the one that got me sit down on my punches and all Mexican style hard punches inside to the body, uppercuts, all that kind of stuff.

55:35And I used to, he used to swing those big old leather bags hanging from chains. It was like an old warehouse that had been there probably since the early 60s. He had swing the bag and it come back and I would just turn through and the whole gym would shake and his eyes would get all big and go, ah! Noi was a great guy. Do you ever wonder what would have happened if you went and pursued just professional boxing? Yes, a big white heavyweight with knockout power like you. That could have been very marketable. That was the whole idea and they were all into that. And I remember, because I would show up to the boxing gym with black eyes and cuts on my face after every weekend pretty much.

56:28And in fact, on my trilogy, street warrior, that's the way he used to call me, oh, the street warrior. And he would go, oh, what do you do now? And I would go, noi, if only. If only, you don't understand. If they only had a fighting show with real fighting, not this boxing stuff. And he would just look at me and shake me. He has a big smile and shake his head like you're crazy. And it happened. It was awesome. How did you find out about it? Well, I was driving. I used to work at a liquor store where I was going to college. And supplied my habit. So, I was looking through the playboys. And I saw an advertisement for ultimate fighting.

57:29I don't know what it was. One with the tooth fell out. Does the first one. Yeah. And so, I had, you know, I was living with two other guys, pirated cable. He climbed up the telephone pole type thing. And so, I invited my dad over. And I said, hey man, you got to check this ultimate fighting. I got, I don't know. If it's real or not, my suspect, it's not. I think it's probably just an offshoot of professional wrestling. Okay, I'll come over. So, he came over and we're sitting there, you know, drinking beer, watching the tube. And he came out with that grass skirt type thing. And I'm like, oh, I'll see.

58:15And then I don't know who it was. Gerard, Perdot or whatever. Yeah, Gerardo. Yeah, and he kicked him in the face. And his tooth went flying. And I go, oh, yes, this is real. It's real. Yeah, I can't believe it, man. This is going to be so awesome. So, how did you want contact them? Like, how do you want to get in? Well, I was in jail for beating up this cops on. Right. And I was got work released from that. Probation, I did like, like three weeks in jail, in an honor farm. And then I went to like a probation apartment thing, to work and came back. And that's when my friend, my friend, who worked for his dad at the medical clothing company, goes, hey, you know that guy, Kimo, that works at the bar.

59:10And I'm like, eh, you got to know him. He wears like the gene thing. And I'm like, yeah, he goes, you know, Joe's son, I knew Joe's son from the boxing gym. He goes, they fought in that show. And I'm like, well, yeah, I go, why is that guy fighting in that show? Because he would always, I had quite the reputation back in those days. He would come find me in the lining. Oh, Mr. Ebitzer, this way, and cut me in front of everybody, and walk me in. Is this Joe's son? No, that was Kimo. This is Kimo. And I was, hey, thanks, Kimo. You know, that's as much as I knew of him, like when he was telling me, you know that guy?

59:50And I'm like, hmm, anyway, so it was Kimo. And he goes, this guy, Kimo, if that guy's in it, why can't you be in it? That's what I was saying. Make it happen. And he started calling Art Davey on the phone. And Art's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he goes, no, you don't understand this guy is the real deal from the streets, man. Everybody knows who he is. And he's like, yeah, yeah, we hear this story all the time. And he's all not from, not from this guy. And then there was back in the day when he had like a table like this with the phone and a speaker phone on it. And so he goes, tell that guy, because I sit in the back.

1:00:35He goes, tell him, I got some guy that's like six foot eight, 300 pounds at once to fight him. And we'll see you next week at this time. It was raining. So we ended up going to Art Davey's office in Torrance right around the corner I heard from the Gracie Academy, I guess they call it. And so it was raining. And I had like a, it was back in the days when they had brown paper bags for grocery bags. So I put my high top basketball shoes in there and like stretchy clothes that you would wear. I had it all folded up. I walked in sitting here like we are now. He's talking and he's like, okay, this is before they came up with the tank idea.

1:01:28And I said, I know I'm a wrestler. And so he goes, okay, well, well, what are we getting back to you? And he goes, oh, by the way, what's in that bag? And I said, well, you said you had somebody that was like six, eight, 300 pounds that you wanted to fight. And he goes, what? And I go, yeah, on the phone, you said that. And he goes, you had to fight somebody and I go, yeah, I don't go to jail. And he goes, you're crazy. Well, you're just crazy, man. And I'm like, no, I was like, I'm down for fighting. And the time you want to do it. And he's like, oh, I just shook his head and we walked out. And like I said, see, I, did we go over the point of going where I got kicked out before even I got in?

1:02:28No, we didn't talk about that. So they found out about your record before you got in? Is that what it was? No, no, no, no, no, you did something? Yes. Okay. Now, this is, I don't know, I've never talked about this publicly, I don't think.

1:02:47So this is why I told the central casting mafia want to be guy that they kicked me out. So they gave me a one sentence paper that says, David Abbott's going to be in the next show, whatever. And I didn't realize it had to be six because the Gracie's owned according to my calculations, the first five shows before Bob took over. Bob Myerwitz for six. And so I lost my train of thought for a second, it'll come back. So it gave me a piece of paper and it says you're going to be in the show, not five, but six. And I'm like, oh, man, and you know, you're a young man and your patience is like, I can't wait that long.

1:03:47I need, I need like tomorrow, you know? Right. And I was like, whatever. So I got, okay, I'll just work with it. Well, you can train. And so a wrestler that was, you know, wrestling, everybody knows the world and college wrestling. And this guy worked for a volleyball company, clothing company called Club Sportswear. And they used to sponsor volleyball players. And so Eddie knew him. I think they used to live together. Somebody lived with him that knew him. And he called up and said, hey, Dave's going to be in that UFC show. And so he goes, okay. And he goes, well, you guys want to sponsor him?

1:04:46And I don't know anything about anything sponsor with that, whatever. And he goes, let me ask my boss. And he goes, yeah, sure. You know, there's new. And so yeah, we'll give him some clothes to wear and all that kind of stuff. And he goes, well, you want an airplane ticket to go back and watch the show. I think it was UFC five in Charlotte. And so he sends me a ticket. And I'm like, wow, this is, you know, I have a kid in my head. I was a kid, but not chronologically. I was forever college student. And so I'm flying there. I'm like, a man. This is so cool. These people to do this for me. And they gave me like bags full of clothes.

1:05:34I was like, wow, even socks and everything like that was like crazy. You know, that's where I was in that time of life. And so we get there and had a big club bag. And they go, yeah, just try to get on TV, man, just so we can see our stuff. I get to Charlotte and I walk in. And it was like the lobby of a hotel. It was like a two -story hotel, but it was a nicer, like a sweet kind of hotel. It wasn't dumpy. And everybody in the lobby had their desk out. And at that time, it was martial arts. And it was kung fu, Frank over there, and whomever. Jiu -Jitsu Jeff over there. And I'm just like, and they're walking around like they're Steven Segal, and with their chip on their shoulder and their chest out.

1:06:39And I'm thinking, I'm like, what the heck is this, man? Are you kidding me? It looked like a swap meet for martial art wannabes. I don't know. And all these people are walking around like, this is before UFC, even people knew. They're like, wow. I can remember some guys. I was just like, are you kidding me? This is insane. These people are like just playing the role. And so I just walked on by, and I was like, wow, I have a room, and I went to the room, and I'm like, wow. My first time really being somewhere by myself, and I'm fine with being by myself, but I'm like, what the hell would you do?

1:07:34So there was a UFC office in the hotel, so that's my first run -in with Karen McCartney. And I walked in there, and she's like, yeah, yeah, what you want. And I'm like, wow. And I was like, hi, you know, whatever. And Dave, the guy that set it up, from the clothing company, or the medical company, said, oh, you're going to be all set. You're going to backstage passes, and I go, good, because I want to know what I want to do, and I lay at the land, you know? So she's like, oh, yeah. No, whatever. And I'm like, okay. Whatever. She's having a bad day or something. And so I, I'm going, hmm. What are you going to do?

1:08:26So I walk down the lobby, and I said, hey, man, is there a bar around here? And he goes, oh, yeah. Right across the street over there. It's down in there, and the highway there. I go perfect. So I walk over there, and everybody's partying, and I sit at the bar. And everybody's like, oh, what are you here for? I go, you know, that UFC thing they're having at the Coliseum, or something like that. Oh, yeah, that fighting thing. Are you a fighter? And I'm like, going on, and I'm not technically really a fighter. I go, well, I'm not fighting in this show, but I got a piece of paper saying, you know, a contract saying that I'm going to be in the next one.

1:09:10So I can, you know, you party with me. I like to have a good time. So it doesn't take long before the whole bar is rocking and rolling around me. And we're having fun. Everybody's like, woo -hoo, man, tank. And I'm like, oh, cringing, you know, like, uh, tank. And I'm like, yeah, and I'm like, oh, yeah, woo -hoo. And so we partied it up at a good time.

1:09:41And so, end up going back with these guys to, there's like a sweet hotel. So there was like a room, like a living room. And then you had your bedroom type thing. And we're partied it up and doesn't take long before security comes and knocks on doors. And any people are complaining about you guys and God, I'm probably swinging off the couch, doing all sorts of crazy stuff. And I'm like, okay, well, it turns out, Meyer, which is right across the hallway. And I think he called, uh, so that wasn't a good thing. And I'm like, okay, we'll keep it down. I don't even know that Bob was. Art Davy was the, was the big guy.

1:10:32And so he was reporting himself as, so I'm like, oh, whatever. And so, tone it down. So go back to next day and it all starts up all over again. And I'm like, yeah, let's go. And they're going, yeah, we're going. We're going to the fight. And I go, yeah, let's go. So we end up, I go, I got these backstage passes and stuff. So I don't know if I can sit with you guys. So they got tickets in there in this little cubicle block of seats just up on the first rail. And they're sitting there and I go, okay. And I go, hey, there's that art guy. I go, hey, art. And he's running around like he's Don King and a tuxedo.

1:11:17And I'm like, hey, art, art, art. There you got my passes and stuff like that. And he's looking at me. He's giving me like the cold shoulder, like not even knowing. He sees me, but like, oh, shit, I don't want to talk to that guy. And I'm like, why is he being evasive? And finally, I called him over. And I started putting two and two together, like you said. I'm kind of cynical of conspiracy theorists. He would walk around the hotel like he was King Kong, like I'm the man type thing. And right when I went in to get tickets and laying in them, we're all in there, he's giving these two young girls these laminates and gave me the quick opportunity to buy, like, what the hell is he looking at?

1:12:11You know, sketchy look. And when I got to the show, when they just gave me paper tickets and those two girls were running around with the laminates in the office. So I went two and two together. He gave them my laminates trying to get over with the girls and just gave me some tickets. All right, so now, just add a little alcohol, a little conspiracy thoughts going on in my head and I'm going that little worm. I go, oh, I know what's going on. And so I go, I go. So you were supposed to get laminates, right? But those girls got the laminates when I went in to get tickets. And those girls that he had just met?

1:13:00Yes, they were just groupie ring rats kind of thing. Anyways, so I'm like, hey, art, art, art, he finally walked over. I go, what the fuck, dude? You can give me these paper tickets. I can't see anything. I just want to walk around. And in the back of my mind, I wanted to get their clothes on camera. I was going to do like a cameo walk by. And I was a kid. Anyways, our young, our ignorant, or whatever unwise. And so I'm walking and he's like, oh, I don't stay. You give me this shrug and he walks off his little tuxedo and I'm steaming. And so that goes down and the first fights go down. And one of the girls that was like a group of maybe 10 people.

1:13:56They're like, hey, tank, you know, in the southern thing. She goes, I don't know. You know, I was expecting something else. It was just kind of boring to be honest with you. And I'm like, like I was part of the show, you know? And I'm like, yeah, I understand. I think, I think Gracie or Olega or somebody fought and they were doing submission and was boring. And so I go, let me tell you something. I promise you, I promise you, it's not going to be anything like this. It's not going to be laying on the ground, rolling around when I fight. I promise you that you have to believe me. And she goes, well, I hope so because this, you know, I can't get into my accent.

1:14:45But she goes, oh, so this is boring. And I'm like, no, it's not going to be anything like that when I get in there. Trust me. And so that was the tone that was set. And more beers, I was drinking beer at that time. And maybe I was drinking some vodka then. But so we get back after the show, the bar. And I remembered. Everybody's like sitting around talking about it. And I went, hey, you know what? I forgot. There's a cocktail party going on. I'm not going to want. I'm like, yeah, there's a cocktail party going on. My guy told me about it. I had backpay back, you know, passes in the whole nine yards.

1:15:42I go, but there's a cocktail party with everybody there.

1:15:48Anyways, so I go, let's go. And they're going, well, we're not, how are we going to get in? We're going to go, you're fucking with me, man. We can get in, don't worry. So I went over there, I had an entourage by that time. Believe it or not, I wasn't even afraid. And we walked in. And you know, that typical banquet type stuff with silverware and the rolled roast beef and rolls and cocktails. And so I was drinking and drinking and drinking and didn't take long before I started telling them that they were a bunch of pussies and that they didn't know how to fight. They don't even know what the hell's going on.

1:16:37Way too I get in there. And Jim Brown, the football player, was an announcer then. And I think he came up in a fatherly way like, hey, hey, hey, hey, come down. And I think, tell me what's calm down. I'll tell you what's calm down. I haven't even respect at that time. And so things went on like that. And it ended up taking Jim Brown's, we call those things like a derby. Is that off? Yeah, but what's the way they called? I don't know. It's like a hat. I know it is. Yeah. The word escapes me right now. It's beret. You had a beret that used to wear all the time. And then you took it off a set. I took it off his head.

1:17:32And I started walking off. And I got about five yards of play. And he's all, hey, hey, hey, hey, young man. And I turned around and I threw it at him. I flung it like a frisbee in a hit him in his chest. They caught it. And he looked at me angrily, angrily. And I was joking around, having fun. That's all. And that might just be the top, the cherry on top. But the whole behavior was that, the whole night. And we left because it was closing down. And I had my fill of food. And we went back to my room and restarted the party up again. And then I left and came back. And they never called us back or anything.

1:18:38And I was like, hey, man, what the hell's going on? And he's like, what did you do there? And I'm like, this is me. And I go, oh no, he was shaking his head. And then that's when Art called him and said, hey, that guy is a maniac. He's not only allowed in the fight in the show. He's not allowed to be at the show. No fn way, that guy, he's crazy. And I remember my friend hanging the phone up and looking at me. It's slowly just shaking his head like, you blew it, dude. So how did you get back in? I told you from the guy from the bar. Okay, so they discounted all the things that happened in the past.

1:19:32That guy made a phone call. Well, it's a smart thing to do. I mean, regardless of someone's maniac, it's maniac sport. You just get a better security. Okay, to lead up into meeting that guy that got me in to a professional wrestling guy. Yeah. Okay, so I get this phone call, you're out, boom. Right. And we go to this bar. And it's not a nice, it's a bar that normal people don't go to. And so, and we're in there. And there's, I told Paul and Eddie that I didn't want to go there. He's got, I don't, I don't want to, he's trouble. And I was a well, well imprimed machine for beaten ass. And I'm like, and I had anger issues from being kicked out of my dream.

1:20:42And so, they talked me into it. And I go, okay, listen, if anybody bothers me, you guys have to take care of business. And no problem. And we were supposed to be in a wrestling room, training and fighting. But the wind got knocked out of our sales, my sale, but they were in there for me. And so we're in there and it's a CD place and a CD, things happen. This girl starts in with Paul, Paul, disables her and she falls on the ground. Disables her? Well, a foot swept her because she was caught and it's a dirty, you know, so the bad place. Anyways, so, so that Paul didn't beat up her boyfriend. I came up behind him and got double under hooks underneath him from behind.

1:21:49And was pulling him back and all of a sudden, here's this loud crack. And I light flash across my eyes on him. What the fuck happened, you know, it was like, it sounded like the jukebox machine got broken, you know, the glass on it. What the hell happened, man? I let go of Paul and pulling him back and I turn around and there's a guy with a broken pool queue standing there. And obviously I put two and two together. Put two and two together and his eyes were like, oh, that didn't go the way I planned because he's still standing here. And I don't know because I was knocked silly, but I heard that he got hurt really bad.

1:22:40And that's why the bartender or bar owner wanted to extort money from me, from having a tape of me beating up those guys. He's like, yeah, that guy came into my bar and I almost killed somebody and I have it on videotape. I see. That's a long roundabout back to the story. Got it. Yeah. So it was a whole lot of fights and a whole lot of chaos. When you were competing, what kind of training were you doing if you were drinking that much? Oh, man. So you know, I really like to address this and I think people don't think that I train. I ran a marathon. You think that you just get up someday and go, oh my god, run a marathon?

1:23:28Well, there's no way you didn't train. Right. Like you look at you, you were very strong. You were obviously, you know, even though you were a big guy, your cardio wasn't that bad. No. You were definitely doing something. You try, try.

1:23:47I believe I could be any man on earth that day. I was in my prime that day. The only reason why I lost is because of big John McCartney and his breaking up the fight. You should have never broke that fight up. Did they break it so there was no rule at all about standing people up? No. None. I personally believe enough that I've broken this down too many times to repeat it, but I'm gone anyway. I don't think they should ever stand people up. They were a person who could take you down. A person who could take you down and keep you down. Tough shit. Even if it's boring, the whole idea is like, what's real?

1:24:28Take it away from me about McCartney affecting fights. The first fight they had, don't quote me on this because I'm not a historian. But I believe it was Boss Redden and Kevin Randleman. That was the first fight they had with judges. John McCartney got in there and broke that fight up twice so Boss could get back up and come back and fight him. Were there rules back then about stand -ups? I don't know. I don't think so. That was an interesting fight. I think it was the first fight anybody ever won off their back really. No, he shouldn't have won. If you watch FI and I just watched it recently, Kevin Randleman kicked his ass, beat his ass severely.

1:25:18And John broke it up twice just so he could give Boss an advantage. A chance to get back up to his feet. Yeah, and Boss is nothing more than a charismatic, what a pancreas, pancreas is fake. Listen to Ken Shamrock, he said it's fake. Well, it's a pretty worse. There were some real fights. It was pretty determined as Ken said. I think there were some real fights and I think this is a true at all Japan. There were some real fights and there were some fixed fights. Like when Boss fought Funaki, watch that fight. He beat the fuck out of Funaki. That was a real fight. Yeah, I have it. I don't know if you've seen that one, but then it is not fake.

1:26:05He beats the fuck out of Funaki. I mean, it's one of the worst beatings anybody's ever taken in pancreas. Boss had figured out instead of slapping to throw palms like punches. Well, I'm not going to get into that. I know you just created a lot of people because they're not you. But like Boss Routin was a bad man. I think... A boss Routin to Koshaka. Did you ever see that fight? I don't. It's a skills fight. And what have you? I did see the same. Koshaka was a very good fighter and that was not, I mean, it was a skillful fight, but it was a brutal fight. But was that pancreas? No, those UFC. UFC.

1:26:51That was his first fight in the UFC. I haven't seen it. He said two fights in the UFC. I think I had two fights in the UFC. And in my opinion, I just watched it. He lost around him. So he's one and one. Maybe I had more. Did you have more than two fights in the UFC? I can't think of a third. I think he might have fought the Indian guy. Yes, but that was Rubin Villarreal, right? But that wasn't in the UFC. That was in another organization. That was like a later fight. Right? Now I fought that Rubin whatever guy. That was my last fight. I came off of my hotel bed and walked into the acting. Did you have a fight with Scott Farozo on a backyard?

1:27:32Yes. That fight's fucking great. We played that fight once on the podcast. We're like, this is so crazy. These guys are so wild. They're just fighting on the lawn. Yeah, no, they called me up and said, I go, yeah, I love fight that guy again. I flew out there and they wanted to do an empty strip club. How was this organized? Like how does that take some guy named Brian Groen? Just came up with some money and said, I'll pay you guys to fight on lawn. Well, he wanted to do it in an abandoned strip club. And I told him, I got dude. He's like, I'm having trouble. I go, I'm not going to get arrested.

1:28:17I value my freedom. And he's like, yeah, I'm going to go off and fight him anywhere. He goes, are you doing my backyard? I go, hell yeah, dude, I might be backyard. And so we went there. And I don't know what version he said. He put some edited version out of it. But he ended up going to the hospital again. I sent him to the hospital the first time. And he went again the second time because of his big mouth. Well, you were punching him on the top and he was like cheering. Like he was having a good time. It was a kind of a crazy fight to watch. Yeah, I don't know if he was cheering. It was something like he was saying, woo, look, this is great.

1:29:00Yeah, he's trying to act. Yeah, like he's enjoying it. Yeah. Enjoying getting beat up. Yeah. Yeah. Only if a girl's done it to me. How many fights do you think you had total in all of MMA and in street fights in your life? I have guests. You know what? That's like asking Wilk Chamberlain about how many one night's dancing said. Did he say 10 ,000? Yeah. So like, you know, I, not 10 ,000, I kind of dabbled around before I got bored and thinking like, wow, you know, last couple of years, at least two times a week, at least. And then, you know, that's what I'm saying. Two times a week. Two times a week.

1:29:59That is the smallest percentage of the population that's alive. Yeah, well, I was into it. What did you enjoy so much about it? Well, here's the thing, you're not a dumb guy. You're, like when someone can get to a conversation with you and you want to really start talking about things, you're a very bright guy. Yeah. But you liked it. Oh, yeah, it was like your favorite thing. Well, you know, I broke it down and, and recently, not really. Recently, recently, but in towards that after my surgery and all these kind of things you sit around and talk to yourself all day, I come to realize, you know, there's a, like a cliche on the bullies bully that kind of thing.

1:30:46I used to set up textbook narcissists that come in and display their narcissism around people. Like, you ever meet somebody that, that you're like, oh, no, those two can't be around each other. Well, I was the kind of guy and I've never, more of an empath in people know, but I would, my ears would perk up and my eyes would open up when I saw a narcissist that it would try to be little, put people down. And I would kind of like, you know, my brother's five years older than me and I kind of maybe, you know, he's very athletic. I come from like a football, that's a football coach, that kind of thing.

1:31:54And so maybe deep rooted and I was resentful of him being older and able to push me around or what have you. And so when I see these narcissists and I be like, why would that guy be doing that for what? Like, what are you getting yourself over? And so I would put myself in their vicinity and sooner or later, and if you look at me, like even today, why walk down the street, people give me the, I like, yeah, you want some? Do they feel? Oh, hell yeah. How are you looking at them? You don't want to know. Like, do you want something? Yeah, exactly. So look at that you back. Yeah, no, I just smile on.

1:32:41And it's like, it's not, it's like, are you kidding me? I feel like Billy Jack, you know? Like, you don't know what you're going to get into. Same, same back in the day. And I would go, you know, I wrestled 190 pounds. I wasn't like I was when I was fighting. And once I knew I was fighting, I just ate everything and just got as strong as big as I possibly could.

1:33:11So sooner or later, and like a ninnin, you're going to slow down there. And sooner or later, are you talking to me, one of those kind of back and forth? And like I say, fighting the knees like walking the dogs, I don't, I don't, okay, we can go there if you want to. And like I said, I've been a lot of fights and talk about fighters fortitude, you know, someone's biting my back or sticking the thumb in my eyes, sake. And I was like, all right, just enjoy your time right now because you're going to pay the price. And the more you beat people up in the street and in life, the more jaded and you get used to it.

1:34:05Like, you know, I can remember like maybe in high school or something. And then early high school, you punch somebody and give them a black eye and say, holy man, wow. That like you want me to put my hands on you, you're going to pay the price. I have to, especially nowadays with my health being so fragile. There's a different kind of beating people. You know what I was a youngster. I used to go to all open wrestling rooms all the time. And I remember this old warrior coach. He said, you know, son, human body can take a lot of pain, a lot of beatings. And it was, I still remember to this day and I'm what I'm 59 now.

1:34:58And it's kind of resonated in bringing in my ears. Like, when you think you don't think you can hit them again and the more they are a smart ass and the more they beg for a beating, I give them what they deserve. Did you always feel that like you had, you had like an ethic for like when you would get in fights when you were absolutely. Like you'd only get in fights with douchebags. Well, yeah, but they think they act like, oh, nothing makes me more upset. And it doesn't have so much time older now. But like, well, you're going to tell me what to do or talk down to me. That I used to go, oh, really?

1:35:53Are we going there? Oh, there's a lot of people out there. And I have a lot of people out there that are just bluffing. And they just, they talk crazy because they think that people are going to get scared. Yeah, you see it all the time online. You can watch 100 videos of them doing it to the wrong person. And that was all the time. Do it to the wrong person. Do you ever see the Joe Schilling one? No. Is one of the greatest of all time. Joe Schilling, who's the man? He's a world champion kickboxer, fucking great guy. Joe Schilling is a nice guy. He doesn't start to share with anybody. He's walking through a bar.

1:36:29And there's this really aggressive guy who's drunk and he's talking a lot of shit. And Joe was walking by him. The guy moves and he puts his hands on his shoulders. And he's, excuse me, he passes by. And the guy talks shit to him as he passes by. And Joe turns around and looks at him. And apparently the guy had a bit of noxious all night. And Joe had been seeing him being a noxious all night. And Joe looks at him and says, what the fuck did you say? And they got flinch his Adam. And Joe just, just two shots and one as he's on the way down to the inside. And he's out called watches video because it's that's exactly classic.

1:37:02Look at this guy. This guy actually wound up suing him and losing the guy sued him and lost and forced to watch Joe passes him. And then the guy says something. He turns around. Look, he flinches on. Yeah. Wrong guy. Those videos. That's the hundreds of people. That's the hundreds of people that I've come across. Karma. You like Karma's warrior. What? Going out to the bar. Knock down teachbacks. And but back in the day before I became tank. Oh my God. Yeah. All the time. Like, whoo. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I've never acted that way. I have only because I would see them acting that way. I would go and overdo what they were doing just to go to the moon.

1:37:51Yes. Do you ever wonder what it would be like if you were, if you were born in a different timeline and you lived in today's UFC? Do you ever think about it? Like when you see how big it is now and you see like the different rules. You know, these, these kids and whatever. I'm coming out. I guess they're kids. The kids us. Yeah, exactly. They think they put a new spin on the wheel. The wheel's been around for a long time. And you don't understand that you just because you learn the leg lock doesn't make you tough. And there's some old bruises out there that they'll take it to you. Yeah, they're certainly are.

1:38:40But it's just it's a different thing now. It's a different thing with the five rounds with the world championship fight. You know, it's a different thing. It's like more of a skill. I think it will be very, the problem is people wouldn't enjoy the entertainment values much because people get tired. You can't really fight for 15 minutes straight. You're going to get exhausted. But you can fight for 15 minutes if you take a break every five minutes. Oh, there's not a problem. I don't think with rounds like, but when somebody like say McCartney gets the pick and choose when to break up the fight.

1:39:15Yeah, I don't know. I don't like that. I don't like that at all. It opens the door for corruption. I'm, I'm even though I'm a hypocrite. So I will say like when I'm doing commentary, this part break this up because I'm getting bored. But I really do believe that. I mean, I think if the the thing is they're allowed to break them up now. It's part of the rules set in activity. But I don't think that should even be in the rules. I don't. I also have another controversial opinion. I think if you take a guy down and you're on top of them with the end of the first round and you're ground and pounding.

1:39:44I think the second round starts in that exact same position. They have cameras. It's super easy to duplicate. Why would Japan? They should do it. They should do that here. Why should you be allowed to start standing up, which is a hugely advantageous position for a striker? Right. Hugely and you didn't earn it. You did not earn the stand up. Like if you got taken down and you got controlled, you never escaped that. And you might not ever escape it if it wasn't for you being stood up and you starting for the next round. Right. Who knows? So not only do you get to get up, but you get a whole minute to recover and then you're started in an advantageous position for yourself.

1:40:20That's not it's like it's imbalanced. It's imbalanced. If a guy is grappling is a huge part of fighting. And if you're not a good wrestler and you're not a good grappler and some guy can take you down and hold you down for the whole fight. That's the fight. That's how it should be played out. That's reality. The reality is you never earned a stand up. If you can't figure out a way to sweep that guy, if you can't figure out a way to get it under her and get back up to your feet, then you stay down. And that should be what fighting is. Even if it's boring because at least this way it's realistic.

1:40:52Yeah, absolutely. And like Mark Coleman, ground and pound. I also think that if you're not touching the cage, so long as you're not touching the cage, needs to head to a ground opponent. I don't think you should be allowed to turtle. I don't think you should be allowed to just turtle and a guy sprawled on you and he's got a hold of your head and arm. And he's on top. Why wouldn't he need you in the head? Of course he would need you in the head. That's a very effective technique that would end fights. That should be legal. As long as you're not touching the cage where you're not stuck somewhere, you got to fucking move.

1:41:28You can't stay there. You can't allow that guy to hold you in that position. If he does, it's just as legitimate as getting the tight clinch and landing it standing up. It's the same thing. Starring. Yeah. Well, you can't be in that, you're not safe there. Also touching the ground and avoiding needs to the face. Bullshit. You can't do that. Like they should be able to knee you in the face. Like you should not touch the ground because if you touch the ground, your face is wide open. You should be like this. Or you should figure out a way to get out of there. Or he's going to win. Or he got the best position.

1:41:55You got to, there's too many rules that make it less about a fight and more about like winning with the ruleset. Like the touching, the ground thing is so crazy that guys have a guy clinched up against the cage. And if the guy touches the ground, you can't name in the face. Right. That's bananas. It's literally bananas. The guy standing up chooses to touch the ground so that he doesn't get need in the face. Right. That's a, that's a crazy playing the game part of the rules that doesn't lend itself to realistic fighting. That's not fighting. That's not like an accurate assessment of what would happen in a real fight.

1:42:32If you leave like some of the most effective things other than of course, I gauges and nut shots and shit. But if you leave that stuff out, then you're, you're leaving out like really effective techniques that would definitely work. And probably would end to fight, especially needs to the head to a grounded opponent. Right. At 12 to 6 elbows. What? How the fuck is that still in there? I think they're taking that out now, right? Is that out now? They were just informing me. They're either, either, they're close to taking that out now. Or they're, that was, you know, without came from they, they were worried that people break bricks and ice on ESPN.

1:43:07So they banned the 12 to 6 elbow. It's still all these years later, 2024. It's still banned. It's fucking crazy. They vote to remove. Nice. Okay. So this is in January. So is it taken to, is it into effect already? Is that it? This might mean that. It's an area on if it's like, or countrywide, worldwide. If it's ABC, I think it is. I think it is because Hunter Campbell is the one who told me about it. It was either him or Craig, Craig Borsari. But do you know the guys who run the UFC now? You ever go? I haven't been, I've been on a medical hiatus for a while. Yeah, tell me about this because you are.

1:43:55They told you you were going to drink yourself to death and they were right. I did that. You came close. No, I came close and you came back. Yes. What happened? Well, you saw what I used to do. I just get. No, no, no, no, no, I mean what happened physically to you? Like what? Well, I got a liver transplant and a kidney transplant. Holy shit. And I died five times on the table. Holy shit. Did you bolt at the same time? No. They did the kidney, are the liver first and want to make sure that it tickled. And then months later, they did kidney. How old were you when this was going on? Six years ago.

1:44:39Okay. And but I had. So 53. Yeah. I had five strokes too. So sometimes I struggle. It's hard. I was a. For a long time, really, really slow. Like I get the strokes. Yeah, it was all on the table. And so yeah, it was it was a rough. So do you have to take medication to make sure that your body isn't reject the ordinance? Yes. Yes. And does that fuck with your immune system? Well, it is about the immune system. But I mean, does it fuck with you? Like do you get cold? I will always wonder. No. But you know what? I'm happened. As I almost died from that too. I was two days away according to the doctor.

1:45:34I got a roundworm infection. Oh. That was they think hanging around for a long time. And once I got on anti -rejection medicine, they didn't it didn't have any resistance. Right. So I started flourishing and they didn't know what was going on. And I was like, no, you don't understand. I'm dying. And not literally, but from pain. And they're like, we don't know what's wrong with you. Anyways, I couldn't take it anymore. So I ended up doing 30 more days. This is after a while of being home. And I was actually going to the gym, crawling around on the wrestling mat doing that kind of stuff. Turns out the doctor saved me, Dr.

1:46:31Toto. He saved me twice. Two different surgery type things. But he did a biopsy of my bowels and stuff and found that I had a roundworm. And he's like, you know, where you got this from? I have some guesses. And so, what do you get roundworm?

1:47:01Well, I don't know. I went to Costa Rica a few times, but I don't know. Is it like a tropical worm? Yeah. Roundworm is like an intestinal thing. Okay. So it's probably from something you ate somewhere. Right. Right. And so now it's just overrunning your body. Yes, slowly. And I was in the hospital for, I did like four months of first time on the second time I went to the emergency room. I couldn't take any more twice. And I was there for 30 days on morphine. And it was very painful. It's where I developed a, a chant of pain is temporary.

1:47:52And, oh my God, for a month, they finally did a, and cut me up and did my bowels and found that I had a roundworm. And two days of medicine and I was better. Wow. Yeah. I imagine people dying from that must not be very nice. Yeah. I talked to this dude once before with like 90 % of people that live in tropical climates. 90 % have some sort of parasite in their body. Well, possible. And I want to hear another one. This is what I was going to say.

1:48:40Okay, because I didn't say it.

1:48:48So when we went to Japan for the first time, I was there with a Brazilian fighter. And he was eating a lot of food, a lot of food. And Isaac's, Bob, all of them are like, oh, Jesus. You see how much food that guy ate. But I'm like, who? Oh, I go, oh, that's a guy. I'm giving him a rat's ass. What am I going to do? And so I said, hey, why are you eating so much? He's all, all. He's, I go, what are you on the gas? What's going on? And he's all, I'm like, yeah, I'm a gas. No, no, it's the worm, the worm. Oh, my God. What the hell is he talking about some type of Portuguese thing? And he was in front of everybody.

1:49:47And when I was in the hospital, David Isaac came and saw me quite a bit. And he's like, you don't you remember that time? He was saying, why, why are you eating so much? The worm, the worm. He goes, it's a round worm. I'm like, wow, I never thought of that could be possible. We were always eating dinners with all the Japanese people and everything. Well, you could definitely get worms from food. You know, if you get tapeworms or roundworms, like that's a motherfucker. Yeah, well, almost killed me. They infectious disease doctor came in with this badge and everything. He goes, you know, you're down to like a couple days left.

1:50:30Jesus Christ, especially with the medication you were on, right? The worms are flourishing. So you get rid of that and you they give you medication. And now that now you have to get a kidney transplant after the liver transplant. Piece of cake though. That was easy. I was really easy. The liver one was the bad one. Yeah, I did. I did over over 120 days. And I see you. Whoa. What is that like? You know, I was laying there and my wife told me, obviously, that they were saying it's time for you to start thinking about taking them off. Unplugging me. It's getting to that time. She said, this is like the surgical ICU floor.

1:51:22Like they could do surgery right there in your room that you're in. And that's either sign I Beverly Hills. Anyways, she's like the doctor, Dr. Toto. So he came at her and said, hey, it's time for you to really start thinking about does he want to live like this? I guess she told me I was just laying there with a tricky out of me with my eyes open and nothing moving. And she was there.

1:52:03Anyway, so David Isaacs came there. And they're gone. Yeah. It was he goes, I'm going away for the weekend. I'll be back Monday. And so they were talking about it holding my hands. And David Isaac said, have you ever seen awakening? I haven't seen it. He goes, it was like awakening. He goes, you had our hands. And he goes, you just, you know, like your eyes came open and you started shaking your hands up and down.

1:52:39And so they didn't unplug me. I'm still here. Wow. Was that close? And you died five times. Do you have any weird memories of that? You know, when you have cirrhosis, went to the doctor's hospital and made it out by my house and got a specialty doctor digestive, whatever, GI doctor. So he put me in touch with Cedar Sinai. You got to have a sponsor. Someone to sponsor you to be allowed into the organ system there, transplants. And so I went there and it was like a, you know, meetings and association type, you know, we're going to take you on. And then they say, okay, we'll see you in two weeks.

1:53:49You cannot drink anymore. Don't not drink. You can't do it. Not even a little bit. Nothing. You've done. I'm not a problem. And so I'm like, after a year, I'm like, oh man, what the hell is going on? I mean, these go there and they take your blood and go, okay, see you later.

1:54:15Well, till the last time I went there, I'm going these little rooms and I got these like bed type chairs. I'm supposed to like dentist chairs and sitting there. And they walk out and they take your blood and then that she walks in the nurses and doctor assistants and all of a sudden they get this panic look on their face. And mind you, I've been doing this like a year and a half and I've met with the doctors and they got doctors said to me, because I do surgery on you, but not until you lose weight. And give me like 50 pounds of lose. I lost like 75. You know, so they knew I was serious in about the whole nine yards.

1:55:00And so there was like a, I'm sitting there in the chair kind of like I am right now. And usually it's kind of like, hey, how you doing? And you know what's going on? Right, but they were much more serious. Very serious. And I'm like, look at that. My wife, like, I mean, what's going on here? I mean, you know, she basically died with me during this whole time. I'm like, what's going on? This is something's not right. And she's like, I go, go out there and see what's going on. And she comes back and goes, we're not going home. I'm like, what are you talking about? She goes, um, their kidneys aren't working.

1:55:45And I'm like, oh, okay. And anyways. So I'm like, looking at it, like, what the fuck? You know, what's going on? And it was like the most alone I've ever felt in my life except for her. And the doctor and the everybody are not making eye contact with me. Not doing anything. And a gurney comes in and they throw me on a gurney. And I'm like, hey, hey, what's going on? And they're like, they don't hear you. I don't see you. It has become like a log. You know what I mean? Your sensory void, you're nonexistent. And I remember being pushed out of the transplant centers across the street by the hallway underneath tunnel type thing.

1:56:59I remember laying there and the fluorescent lights above me look like freeway lane lights lines. And I remember laying there just going, oh, man, this is, this is a real deal. You're dying. And consciously, it was like I died. It was like no one talked to me. No one heard me. No one saw me. Except for my wife bouncing back and forth trying to, hey, hey, what's this? You'll be all right. All right. You'll be all right. And I'm like just being pushed down this hallway to the hospital. And I remember getting pushed into this room with all these machines. It looks like the movies. And I'm like, wow.

1:57:56And I remember just laying on the bed there. And just gone, oh, oh, and then my wife's like, you know, like comforting me. And I'm like, wow. And to me, that's when I died. And then I woke up with Isaacs and my wife there. But I guess I was in that room for six days on the machines. And they were waiting for a transplant to come in. And one came in and told my wife we got one. And she's like, oh, thank God, you know, and we're going to do surgery. Well, it turned out somebody else was waiting for one also. And they were a better match. And my wife said, there are better match. She's an angel.

1:59:01She said, let them have it. So the doctor came back in. She said, like six hours later. And he said, all right, we're going to go to surgery. And she's all, I think you're messed up. Even though you shouldn't be. I think you messed up because we gave that other liver to somebody else. Now liver. Okay. The kidney is later. My kidney stopped working. Okay. So they put me on dialysis, I guess, and waited for six days. And so she she's all know that they gave that liver to the other person that was the better fit. And he's all this never happens. But we got another one. It's just never happened. So they did me.

2:00:00And I was in a catatonic state for weeks and weeks and weeks. And then they were talking about unplugging me the dialysis machines and all that kind of stuff. And you guys, I'm going to go away for the weekend. This is obviously conveyed to me from my way and take the weekend to think about what you want to do. Because you know, this could be the best he gets right here. And she said, the whole floor knew that that was talk happened. And she said everybody that she would walk down the floor with. Their mood changed. She said it was total darkness. It was like she'd walk down the hall and everything.

2:00:51He's like, hi, Sally. Hey, how you doing? Right. And she said they were just like, oh, poor. Right. And then Isaac came in. And she said they were both holding my hands. And I woke up. And how much that houses experience changed your perspective about just life. No, it almost went away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I'm a totally different person completely. I see you're telling me when I went first, sorry today. Yeah, yeah. I'm not. I used to be like.

2:01:33I hate to say it narcissistic. Like I'm on a conquer the world. And now you can't mess with me. And now it doesn't matter. Anything care. I mean, oh, you have that good for you. I'm glad for you. You know, sometimes maybe before all this, I'd be like, oh, man, I like I do that. Oh, man, I got to do that. I'm better than that. I can do that. I now it's like, good for you, man. Go go out and mow down. Is that a way better way to face with life? Absolutely. I wish more people could learn that lesson. I take the hard way for me. But it's so unfortunate that so many people go around angry at other people's lives.

2:02:23Yeah, I'm thinking that they deserve what another person has. It's such a waste of time. 100%. It's so bad for you too. You're tiring around just a bunch of extra bullshit for no reason and you're doing it to yourself. Yes. And you know, I, with Dana, I, I, I was in a dark, dark, dark place. And just there, there's some medical things about that. When you get ammonia in your blood, and it makes you crazy, like they had like a warning thing around my room, like watch out for this guy. Like I guess I kicked a physical therapist in the chest and all this stuff. I was ripping my cords out of me. But it's called in Seph Lopathy.

2:03:16And I would just, just like to my poor wife, to people that I've known for years, I've just talking crazy nonsense, like almost like Alzheimer's type. They don't, and they, they, they, they would tell my wife, like it's got ammonia in his blood and his liver doesn't work. And it's poison in his brain. And he doesn't know what he's doing. And I, I, I believe that I left according to my wife, because she would listen to me on the phone. I leave Dana choice messages. Dana White. Yeah. It's not funny. It's funny if you realize how sick I was. I thought I was going to die. I mean, you know, I, I was living the rock and roll lifestyle.

2:04:14I used to joke around rock and rollers couldn't even hang with me. Once I got into WCW, you know, the whole, those guys live rock and roll lifestyle. It's like an athletic rock and roll lifestyle. And I, as you can imagine, pushed it to the floor and peddled in the metal man I was getting down. Was there ever a time where you were realizing that if I keep going, yeah, when was that when did it start feeling like that? I, I, I use this. Well, when I was wrestling, I mean, it was the rock and roll lifestyle. I can fly on a jet, boom, boom, boom, go for eight day loop, fly home, do your laundry, do your thing.

2:05:07And that kept me from really taking off crazy. Once WCW got sold and my contract was still valid and I had money coming in and a whole bunch of time. So, leaving Las Vegas with Nick Cage, why he's the agent and he's all, he gets fired from that show. I don't know, we're not show, but talent agency. And he's like, hey, Ben Sonderson. And he's like, what are we going to do now? You got to Vegas. I, I was Ben Sonderson after WCW was done and I wasn't leaving every week to go somewhere new. I was like, why am I going to do now? I guess I'll just drink myself to death, not consciously, but that's what you were doing.

2:06:11So that's when the liver started failing? No, my liver started failing when I went back to the UFC. That's when I held on, man, I pulled it physical feet. But when Dana called me to come back to do my comeback thing, I'm like, sure. And I kind of got into shape shape. But he flew me out to Atlantic City, I believe. And he goes, okay, need you to be down here tomorrow. We're going to do a shoot in this whole nine yards. And I pride myself on being responsible and doing what I'm supposed to do and being there on time. I'm one of those kind of people. And so I go to wake up and this is like, I'm coming back kind of thing and I was supposed to be at the shoot.

2:07:25I could not. I was like, could not get out of bed. I was that sick. And I almost missed the whole show. Just out of just crawling to get there. And I got there halfway through the show. And his agent or his person that worked for him came up to me and goes, oh, here you are. Where were you? And I'm gone, oh, man, I just didn't feel very good. I was awful. Like nauseous, sick all the time. I think that's when you live or starting to fail. Yeah, there's there's stages. And that's kind of called a compensated liver, de -compensated liver. It was a compensated liver. And it's like all the things where your liver stops working.

2:08:22And you get sicker and sicker. And that's when you start turning yellow. And they would pump my stomach or my cavity, pull out like a couple of two liter things all the time. It was just poison just running through your body and I can cephalopathy going through your brain. I was, I was a complete crazy. Like, you know, Ben Sonderson is the guy in leaving Las Vegas. I'm making a kindergartener. I was that out of control. I wasn't saying I can look back and just go, oh, oh, oh. Have you talked about writing a book? I have written a book and I'm glad you brought that up. Thank you. Is it out? Yes.

2:09:11It's a trilogy. I wrote 900 page trilogy. Really? Yeah. Did you bring it? Did you bring it? Yes, I did. It's in my bag over there. It's three of them. The first one's called Bar Brawler. And it's about when it's 300 plus pages long. It's about how the mid -80s and early 90s, how people used to be. And how there's some really graphic fights in it and who some people think it's an autobiography, but it's written as a novel. Okay. That's a good way to do it. Yes. And the main character is Walter Fox. And Walter Fox. It's how Walter Fox goes through his life, beating people up at bars and all that.

2:10:10And ends up fighting in a show called NHB. And they call him Crazy Fox. And it's how Walter Fox through all these trials and tribulations ends up as Crazy Fox at the end of it. It's a trilogy. 900 pages long plus. Did you write on this by yourself? Yes. Every single page. I have a ghost writer. I have anything. Just sitting front of a laptop. Write it up by hand. I scribbled it out on a spiral notebook, bunch of them. Yeah. And I hunt and packed the whole 900 plus pages. Wow. Three books. Why didn't you just learn how to type? I, because I'm dumb. Well, you know, Hunter S. Thompson never really learned how to type.

2:11:05How do you know? Hunter S. Thompson was hunting at Peckin when he was writing like fear and loading and Las Vegas. I'm telling you this, especially if you're a fight fan, it's called Before There Were Rules. And it's awesome. I'm pumping myself up. But if you want to know how real fighter in my eyes. Before there were rules. Yes. That's the third book. The second book is Cage Fighter. And the first book is Bar Brawler. And it goes pretty much the whole what we've been discussing. It goes through all of those things. Where could people get these books? They're on Amazon. Okay. And it's some people think it's an autobiography.

2:11:58Like I said, it's fiction. Yeah. It's fiction. Exactly. Right? It was a plausible deny. Yeah. Exactly. Fiction. Folks. And there's like the, there's a fighting promoter matchmaker. And he has name is Big Bart Shady. And of that of that show, the NHB show, the referee's name is windshield Duncan. And he's a little, a little guy with a big ego. And so you could draw parallels. But I don't tell you how to think. But it's actually how Walter Fox got all the way through the bar scenes and everything that I discussed. It's how Walter Fox ended up becoming crazy. Have you done a audio book for this? Yes.

2:13:07Did you read it? I listened to it. Okay. Somebody else read it. Somebody else read it. No, it's oh, yeah. No, it's on AI. Oh, AI did it. Yeah, it's pretty good. I always, I was worried about the inflection and everything. Right. It came out really good. Now they're very sophisticated now. It's pretty incredible what they can do now. It's awesome. David, thank you very much for being here, man. You're an American original. You really are. And it's been cool to know you all these years. And you made the UFC a very exciting thing in the early days. You were one of the big reasons for its early success.

2:13:43Yes, I believe so. I think so too. I think everybody thinks so. And I appreciate your brother and good health to you. I hope you feel better. Thank you very much. Thank you. Anybody website anywhere else people can see your stuff. Oh, yeah. No, just Amazon before there are rules. Do you have a website? Yeah, Jibal, what's it called Instagram? Instagram? Tank .abit. Okay. Yeah. All right. Anyways, yeah, like I said, I've had five strokes. It's amazing that I'm even talking. But what's it going to tell you? There's my. I don't know. We were talking about website Instagram. Buy the books on Amazon.

2:14:24Uh -huh. Uh -huh. Uh -huh. Uh -huh. Your Instagram David. No, tank .abit. Oh, yeah. Before there are rules. Um, the first word, you know, I wrote, like I said, I wrote every single page of this book. First word is misspelled. So all you narcissist. Preemptively blocking people getting mad at you for misspelling things. No, no. I like. I put it out there as bait for all those narcissists to tell me how dumb I am. Well, you could have just corrected it. No, no, no. No, you just always playing games. Yes. All right. Well, thanks brother. Thanks for being here, man. It's great to see you again. It's a pleasure.

2:15:06Thank you for having me. Best of health to you. Thank you. Bye everybody.