JRE MMA Show #166 with Ilia Topuria

26:57And so when someone takes you down, you have to actually get up. I also think at the end of a round, like say if you got a guy mounted at the end of the round, you start the next round mounted on him. Of course. Yeah, I don't think. Of course. Because why would you give him the advantage of getting up when he never got up? He never got up. Never got up. You have to earn a get up. You have to stand up by yourself. I love it. I never thought about that. Yeah, actually. No, no stand -ups ever, ever, no stand -ups unless someone commits a foul. Like if someone commits a foul and you want to stand them up and take a point away, that's fine.

27:30But if the guy's in the bottom, he commits a foul. If a guy's in the bottom, he gouges someone's eyes on purpose, take a point away, put him right back in the same spot. Wow. Because otherwise, like say if you're fighting a guy like Alex Pereira, who's never taking anybody down. He's just going to strike with you, right? Okay. Why would you let him back up again and have advantage of him standing up again? Yeah. The beginning of the round, he starts standing up again. Now you've got to take him down again. But also, you don't think that it's a part of the show. It is. It is, so part of the show, but I don't give a fuck about that.

28:02Yeah. I'm a fan. I mean, I'm a hardcore fan. I'm a purest. I think it should be about fighting, about elite fighting. And elite fighting is you've got to get up. Like if a wrestler takes you down and he just does this to you, and it's not entertaining. But if he can do that to you, that's tough shit. That's what he did. You would change also the time range, like, oh you would leave a three round of five minutes with one minute rest. The good thing about five minute rounds, the good thing about five minute rounds is it's sustainable, and guys can fight at a high pace. If you had like just one 15 minute round, guys would be exhausted.

28:39And the end of it would be sloppy. It wouldn't be the same. The pace would be much slower. It wouldn't be as good. So I think there's nothing wrong with rounds, but I think it's one fight. It's not five fights. So why does he stand up at the end of every round? I think the guy takes you down and he's got you mounted with like trapped in arm, and he's punching your ribs trying to secure an arm triangle. Why would you, why does he get to stand up again? It doesn't make any sense. That's true. Especially if he's a striker, and you wasted all that energy, get him to the ground, and you got so close to cinching up a submission, and then all of a sudden he's back on his feet again.

29:14And then clink, you have to stand up. And he didn't even earn it. Start him right back down there. No cage, no stand -ups, no stand -ups ever. Everybody booze, tough shit. Go watch baseball. Go watch something else. You wouldn't like to see at some point the war championships in Mixle Marshall's like, for example, let's say the seven best fighters from the United States and every weight class against seven best fighters from, I don't know, from China or from Russia. Yeah, I would love that. The best flight weights against the best flight weight from the United States. And you do that, and you have seven fights because you have seven weight divisions.

29:57And if you win four weight divisions, that country won. Yeah, that will be final. That would be great. That's a great idea. I love that idea. Yeah, I think that idea sounds really good. And also, there is a bit of an issue, right, with the UFC being the premier organization for Marshall Arts. The UFC is like, if you're not a champion in the UFC, no one thinks of you as a world champion. Like you're a world champion, world champion. Someone can fight in the PFL, and they can say, oh, it's the PFL world champion. Everybody's like, right, come on, come on. Great fighters. But at the end of the day, you know that you have all the best fighters, the best collection of fighters in the UFC.

30:37Yes, but I watch one FC, and I watch some of those fucking animals that they have over there, and I'm like, Jesus Christ. These guys are good, man. Some of these guys are good. And they're calling them one FC world champions. I'm like, I'd like to see them. I'd like to see them because some guys look real good until they fight elite talent. And we've seen that before. Some guys look like destroyers, and then they get in the UFC against guys who are just a little bit more technical, a little smarter, and they get pieced up. What happens is that I think that in one championship, you, most of the time, you used to fight with strikers.

31:13In the UFC, you don't know who you're going to face next. Maybe he's a wrestler. Right. Maybe you're going to fight Demi Amaya, who wants to fight you in the ground. Maybe you fight Alex Perreira. You don't fucking know. So you have to be good everywhere, and you have to be prepared for everything. Yeah. In one championship, maybe you are good at striking, and you can be a war champion. Yeah, maybe. I mean, there are some good grapplers over there, but my point is I really wish there was no organizations. I really do. I really wish it was just all the best fighters competing. I don't, look, I love the UFC.

31:49I've been working for the UFC forever. I'm a loyalty to the UFC, but I wish there was just only fighting. You know, no organizations, just like boxing is. And boxing, but the problem with boxing is it's very difficult to get these guys, because they all have different promoters. Exactly. And if they all the same promoter, they all get fucked when it comes to negotiation. Right. If they all the same promoter and the same managers. You know something about soccer? No. Yeah, no, a little bit about it. Like how they do like the Champions League. They have like, for example, let's say the Real Madrid, they have a team.

32:23That's why I would, what I would do is like I would create a team against another team. For example, I have Real Madrid. I've, I, I signed like the best seven fighters in the war, whoever I want in different way classes. And you have, for example, Barcelona, you, you signed the seven best fighters in the world around the world. You train them in one place. You do like all the strategy strategy. And we meet each other. We do a competition like a Champions League. And we do like the whole year calendar and the best wins at the end of we do like the finals. And we give them the space to recover. We create like a competition between teams, not individual people.

33:06You know what I mean? Yes. So I would do something like that. That's a great idea. But the problem is I think guys, guys get injured, guys fall out, guys get sick. That's right. And soccer, you have guys that in you position, you always have two or three guys. That if you are injured, you have another guy that can, can, can change you, switch you. You know, between the rounds even. You are, and soccer sometimes it happens. Someone gets injured in, in Estadio Stadium. And they can switch them. Yeah, that makes sense. But I mean at the end of the day, like imagine, say if you get scheduled to fight Islam and Islam gets injured in Armand, Serookey and Texas place, or something like that.

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35:48I'm like, maybe I bring you Islam that I have it in my team. Or also I could have Charles Oluwela in the same team. Or maybe I bring Charles Oluwela because I think that against you team, the guy you have in the lightweight division, Charles does it better. Right, right, right. They do that with grappling, like Quintet. They have grappling teams. Yeah, I mean, that would be interesting. I just, there's certain fighters like I was my main regret in MMA that we never got to see Fador fight in the UFC when he was in his prime. That's true. If I could have one thing, one fight in their prime, Fador Cain Velasquez.

36:30Oh, that would be great fight. In their prime. Oh my God. Great fight. In their prime. That would be incredible. Actually, Cain was an amazing fighter. Bro, that guy had a gas tank that was super human. For a heavy weight, it didn't even make any sense. You would see guys just fall apart. They would just wilt. Pure boxing style. Pure boxing style. Great wrestling. Incredible chin. And just indomitable will. Too tough for his own good. Which is why he wound up towards the end of his career. He was just his body had deteriorated so much. He had so many back injuries, neck injury, shoulder injury, knee injury.

37:06Actually, what's going on with him? He's in jail right now. Yeah, he got sentenced. He got sentenced to five years. And the judge said this was the least amount he could send in to him. He didn't want to send in to him. Well, what happened to him? Do you know that? Yes. So Cain's son was going to daycare. And there was a man who molested him at daycare. Cain found out about it. Chase the man in his car and shot at him. He tried to catch him and his car and shot at him. Cain gets arrested. Cain stayed in jail. The guy gets arrested and he got out on bail. I don't know what's happening with the guy.

37:43I don't know if he's been sentenced yet or what. But this guy molested his son multiple times. I don't know how many times. But he did what every father would have done. If you're not a father, you do not understand the murderous rage you would have if some man molested your baby. You don't understand. You would see red in a way that no one can describe to you unless you're a parent. That fucking anger is, I mean, if there's ever a plea for temporary insanity, that's the plea. If there's ever a person who could justifiably say I was temporarily insane, it's a father that's chasing after someone, especially a man who molests your boy.

38:34Wow. Everybody understands it. Everybody understands it. He should have never gone to jail. He's not a threat to society. He's not a danger. He shouldn't be in prison. No. And he already did three years. He was already in jail for three years. And he has been a great example for so many upcoming guys like for the new generation. Yes. I don't know why guys like him have to end up in the jail for something like that. Exactly. He didn't robber anyone. He didn't robber anyone. Exactly. It's horrific. It's horrific. You know, I mean, I just don't understand it. It's, I mean, the judge's hands were tied.

39:10He had to make a sentence. And this is the, I think, the minimum amount. They were trying to give him 30 years. Yeah, for attempted murder because he was just shooting at this guy. And obviously when you're driving and shooting, you could miss him and kill a bystander. You know, it's very dangerous. But also the guy was in a murderous rage for a good reason, for a good reason. Of course. And if he killed that guy, the world would be better off. That's my true. That's all that's true. That's all that's true. A guy like that walk around him, the last children should be dead. That's just my feeling.

39:44All this thought of, I mean, there's a bunch of people on the left here in the United States that they have this crazy way of looking at pedophiles. They call them minor attracted persons. They want to make it a protected class and say it's, you know, it's like someone being attracted to someone of the opposite sex or someone being attracted to someone of the same sex. No, it's not. No, it's not. You're victimizing children, the most vulnerable and protected people that we have. Of course. You can't even talk to the kids about something like that. You know what I mean? Yeah. About like, I hear so many crazy things about that topic at.

40:21I know. Let's leave it right there. We'll just get in trouble. Yeah, I mean, kill them all. That's how I feel. Kill them all. Anybody wants to do that to children? There's no reason for them to exist. This desire, I mean, for, yeah. You're just going to ruin lives. And not just their lives, but you're going to ruin all the people whose lives they ruin. Because they're all fucked up now. You know, you kill so much potential from a human being to do that to a baby. It's just insane. Wow. It's just fucking insane. So that's unfortunately the story with Kane right now. And you know, he was out for a while.

40:59And once they let him out, he was coaching at A .K .A. And, you know, he's an amazing coach. We hope that they're going to, they're going to think and again. And they're going to give him the freedom he deserves. Yeah, I mean, I hope Trump pardons him. I mean, that's what I really hope. I hope something makes something happen with that. Maybe that's possible. I mean, that might be the best, best option. But anyway, in his prime, Kane Velasquez versus Fedor, that's my biggest regret, a fight that we never got to see. Because when, when, when Fedor was fighting and pride, you know, and this is before the UFC was really huge, right?

41:38Because they were huge in Japan in like 2001, 2002. They were felon stadiums in Japan. When the UFC was just sort of emerging in the United States, it really hadn't hit its peak until 2005. And why do you think that they never bring him to the UFC? Well, they tried. Yeah. But I gotta be careful, I say this. So Fedor was controlled by some Russian people that were very rough men. Okay. As it were, you know, gangster type characters. And they had a bunch of negotiations with the UFC, but they were very unreasonable demands. Like they wanted part of the promotion. They wanted to own a piece of everything.

42:25They wanted a lot. Because they knew that with Fedor, they had their golden ticket and they wanted to play it out as much as possible. Okay. And negotiations were very intense and very, very confrontational. They got bad where Dana had to up his security. It got, it got, yeah, it got heavy. Yeah. It was dangerous people. These were dangerous people. It got, yeah, I can tell you more off air. Yeah. Well, I didn't know that story. I'll tell you more off air. You should talk to Dana about it. It got crazy. Wow. They're rough dudes. That's why. Yeah. Because I always thought like why they don't bring that guy to the UFC because it's going to be so fun for the fans.

43:07They wanted a coper mode. They wanted to be a part of the promotion. They wanted more than they deserved. They didn't just want Fedor to get paid. They wanted to get paid. They wanted to make a lot of money. And they wanted to get their hooks into the UFC. Got you. Yeah. Russian gangsters. Yeah. Yeah. I get it crazy. How they roll like. Well, pride was run by the Yakuza. You know, so it was Japanese gangsters and Russian gangsters. I speak the same language. You know, they got a long fine with them when they came over to the UFC. The UFC was like, that's not the place. That's not the place. No, we'll give them a lot of money.

43:47We want them to fight in the UFC and it never took place. Unfortunately. Wow. Yeah. So crazy. Yeah. So he's about to fight again. Fedor's going to fight bare knuckle. Yeah. I hear something about that. Yeah. I think the Conor's promotion. I think it's Conor's promotion. That BKFD. I actually do you think he's going to come back, Connor? If I had a bet. No. No. No. Why? Because he hasn't come back yet. And he could have. You know, if he really wanted to, he would have been back in the gym, how to fight scheduled, drug tested, clean, training, gone through a camp. How to fight? Like, he had a broken toe before the first fight with Trans -Chandler.

44:25I understand that. Okay. Why should you fight in a broken toe? Especially the guy who moves a lot like Connor. He relies on movement so much. Yeah, I get it. So he'll that toe up. What's that? That's two months. Broken toes two months. Yeah. And so then you're back in camp. And then you, you reschedule a fight. And then you fight again. Of course. But he didn't. And also, partying. Constant partying. Again, all these legal problems that he has, you know, scooting around on yachts and, you know, driving around the Lamborghini, he's, he's wealthy. He's done. Maybe. I mean, what's really sad is if he comes back when he's like 39 or 40 and his body just doesn't have it anymore, you know.

45:10So right now he actually has a great opponent, Mike Chandler. It could fight. Right. Right. They could fight right now. Yeah. Very good fight because if they put him against party, I think party beats him easy now. Well, you don't think so. A lot of years off, right? A lot of years off. You know, on the feet, Connor's a motherfucker. No, I'd the, and the feet he's a motherfucker. I know that. Yeah. You can knock out like everyone. If he's still the same guy. Yeah. But the thing is he's 36 now, you know. And if he's natural, also reality. Okay. When he breaks his leg, he gets off the drug testing, right?

45:48Because he's got to do something to heal his leg quicker. So what is he going to do? Well, you're going to take steroids. So if you're going to take steroids and you're already 34 -ish, your endocrine system gets fucked up by taking steroids where your body stops producing testosterone. So I've had explained to me by scientists before and essentially say if you take steroids for six months, you need at least six months. Before your body starts producing testosterone at a normal level again. Some people think it's twice as long. So that would be a year, a year of no steroids before your body regains its natural testosterone levels.

46:26If it does, depending, if it does, you think that if someone puts steroids and he's body, he never comes back as a, he's normal body. V -tor Belfort is the best example of this, right? He's the best guy that we could use a sitting exam. But he took bunch of staves. He took all the right stuff. Luke Rockhold said when he was weighing in, when he fought him, he said, this guy's got muscles on his fucking teeth. Yeah. On his mug. Exactly. He was. You're ready. But if you go back to V -tor when he fought Anderson Silva before they had testosterone use exemptions, he didn't look like that at all. No.

47:09He looked old, actually. He looked like he's body was relaxed. Yeah, because V -tor, yeah. So this is the look of the difference before you saw it and after you saw it. I mean, that is a crazy example. So when he fought Chris Wyden, his body looked soft and like his muscles look empty. They just didn't look the same. And that was just a couple of years after they fucked up with the testosterone use exemption. Because what they did was they had test guys. And if you're low on testosterone, oh, you can have a testosterone use exemption. But you could get low on testosterone in a night. If you wanted to, all you'd have to do is eat a bunch of shitty food and drink and stay up all night.

47:52And your body's natural levels of testosterone would be low. So you could go get drug you who has normal healthy levels of testosterone. You could wreck your body on purpose, then go get drug tested. And they say, oh, Ilia, you have low testosterone. I'm going to prescribe to you testosterone exemption. And so then you go and take testosterone and you become a fucking animal. And you're healthy. You don't need it. So there was a lot of guys that were taking it that didn't need it. So you think that at this point, there are guys in the USE that are taking like testosterone. Steroids, let's say.

48:26I would imagine there's for sure someone doing something they're not supposed to do. Yeah. Wow. I don't know because at this point, I feel that they are so strict with the they are. But there's a lot of guys that do their camps and far away lands. And I think that like people always just joke around about daggistan. You know, like try try again. You saw the guy in the daggistan. The moment he lands, they did. But it's going to call everybody. Drac this and in daggistan, they test the cabee, for example, in daggistan. No. I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure they must have. And what if someone lands from the USE?

49:04What's the third issue where some guys from USADA and Cabeebs camp, they had like. They had some issue. Some issue. Yeah. They had some, I remember like something like that. But you go over there like and you know, you want to get out. You got to be careful. No. You get that. But I would imagine that if you want to avoid being tested all the time, like say, like if you are in America and you know, you live in Arizona, whatever, they'll visit you all the time. They'll test you a bunch. Yeah. And there's some people that have been tested a bunch. They get tested a lot. And then some people that don't get tested as much.

49:41And if you're going to go and do your camp in Thailand or you're going to go do your camp in Dagestan or it's a lot more difficult to get to you to test you randomly. Yeah. But they can anyway. They can. So you can try some on if they calm or not. But there's short acting stuff. There's like when Alex Rodriguez, that is, I'm a rod, right? Yeah. When he was fighting, excuse me, when he was playing baseball rather, they were taking gummies, testosterone gummies. Okay. And the testosterone literally only lasts for a few hours. And it's out of your system. Wow. Yeah. I never heard that. Yeah. There's certain stuff that you can take, like EPO, that's very short lasting, very difficult to test, very short lasting.

50:26And there's a. In my case, I don't like that because I wouldn't feel good with myself. Right. I'm going to feel like I'm cheating. Right. I don't deserve the the the win because I'm cheating. I'm a cheater. I can have that thought that taught about myself. All the time when I walk inside the octagon, I feel that I didn't cheat and I deserve the win. And that's why I'm going to win. Well, that's why guys like BJ Penn are so impressive because BJ Penn was clean when everybody was cheating. Yeah. Because back then, it was really difficult to test. All they tested was at the weigh -ins. So at the weigh -ins, that's like an intelligence test.

51:05Like if you cheat and take steroids intelligently, by the time you get to the weigh -ins, you're going to be clean. If you do it with a doctor, I know camps, and I want to say the names, but they had scientists working for the camps. And the scientists, these doctors would study guys' blood work and make sure that they were clean by the time they got into camp or by the time they got into the weigh -ins. So when they were on the scale, they still had all the benefits of steroids, but they had no steroids in their system. And their body hadn't started to deteriorate yet from the lack of steroids.

51:38I know some camps also that they use steroids. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for me, you can have all the muscles in the world, but if you are not mentally strong because that's a so specific moment when you are in the backstage, you need, you mind so badly, you need it more than your body sometimes. Because as I told you, you can have all the muscles in the world, but you need... This episode is brought to you by Farmer's Dog. It doesn't matter how old your dog is, it's always a great time to start investing in their health and happiness. And thankfully, the Farmer's Dog makes it easier than ever to feed your dog a healthy diet of real meat and veggies.

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54:24Zip Intro post jobs today talk to qualified candidates tomorrow. This muscle as strong as possible. And if you know you cheated. And if you know you cheating, that's you are not in what you in reality are saying that you are. Right. Right. Right. That's a tough one. I don't want to see myself in that situation never. That's a champion's mindset. Yeah. Yeah, that's a real champion's mindset. Some guys they just want to do anything to win. They want to do anything to win. And if they have to cheat to win, they'll cheat. They'll justify it by saying everybody cheats. Yeah. I'm a God believer. And my mindset is like, of course I want to win.

55:10I prefer myself to win. But if he destroys my plans is because maybe my plans could destroy me. So I don't want to have anything because I want to have it. If he decides it, if God decides to give it to me, I accept it. I will do everything to get it because I decided from all my heart. And if he says that if I decide it, I have the fate, I will get it. So this is the reality. The reality is, if you give everything you have and you lose, you win a lesson. And you realize you're not at the level that you need to be. There's never a lose. Or you win or you learn. And learning is also a winning. Where did you develop your mindset?

55:55Have you got any mental coaching? Did you read books on psychology? I read a lot of books. I try to read at least 30 minutes a day, but it's every day, every day. What you do and you daily habits, it what makes the difference, right? Because we can decide or future, but we can decide or habits and or habits decide or future. Yes. Yeah. So what kind of stuff do you read? I read more like, I read a lot of books. I love reading books of self development books.

56:41Also, how can I tell you? And yeah, this is the most of the books I read. Self development books. I read biographies of the people that I like, works in Donald Trump, Warren Buffett, I read that kind of people. Businessmen. Yeah, I try to. Yeah. Yeah. Why do you read business on biographies? Because at the end of the day, right now, I'm in sports, but at some point, I'm going to retire. And I'm going to have to make a living from from something, right? Because I'm not going to be fighting my whole life. And I don't want it even. So yeah, I want to I want to prepare myself. So if you want to have an extra early night alive, you have to be an extra early night person, right?

57:28Yes. Yeah, absolutely. I'm trying to to become an extra early night person in all walks of life. In all walks of life. Yeah. So do you have an idea of when you want to retire?

57:43How old do you know? Till I enjoy 28. 28. 28. Till I enjoy. I don't know how many fights maybe till 32, 34. Really? Yeah. I don't know till I enjoy. Right now, I'm enjoying. I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. So you'll take that road when it comes? What do you mean? You'll find when it when that happens when you no longer enjoy, then you will go on a different path. So I don't know right now, I want to become a lightweight champion. I want to hold out bell to. So I don't know what's what's going to happen. Then if I'm going to keep motivated, it's kind of difficult. This is a fight game.

58:27Fight game is so hard, so hard, because you have to go in and take someone's head off. And you can't be that soft guy, you know what I mean? Like that kind guy. You've got to have that testosterone up. You've got to be vicious. Exactly. Yeah, you've got to be technical, you've got to be smart, but you also have to be vicious. And at the same time, everyone from my family is involved in my career. You know, at some point, maybe I will end up doing different things, maybe some businesses. Like now, I'm different things, and I'm enjoying it also. So you're doing different things outside of fighting?

59:06Yeah, I have a promotion in Spain right now. Oh, I'm MMA promotion. I'm MMA promotion. What's it called? Whoa. Whoa. And the goal way is to, because as you mentioned, when you say, whoa, how you spell that? Way off the warrior. Oh, wow. Yeah. So from Spain to get to the UFC before it was so difficult, I had to do so many crazy things to get to the UFC. But right now, we create, whoa. And actually, we are in the UFC fight pass. Everyone can get in that promotion fight. If you have the skills, if you are ready, someone's going to see you. And they're going to sign you in the UFC. The promoter's life is a hard life.

59:50That's a hard job. Yeah, you think so? Yeah. It's very entertaining to be honest. When I talked to Dana, at least promoting for the UFC, like I was talking to him this weekend. He was telling me all the issues that they're having. And with different fights, I was asking him some questions. Like, what are you doing with this? We're doing with that. And he starts telling me, oh, this guy wants that. And this is what I want to fight this time. Did he tell you something about me? Maybe. Maybe a little bit. If he did, I can't tell you. I did ask who you're going to fight. And they say, we're working on things.

1:00:18But he was actually specifically talking about what happens if Bala wins. Because Islam and Bala, they've been talking about Islam fighting Bala. That's going to happen. I would like that to happen if Bala wins. But that's an if Jack Dela Madalena is a bad mother fucker. He's good, man. That guy's good. Even if he wins, they're going to make that fight happen. Against Islam. You think so? Yeah. Well, Jack Dela Madalena wins, then Jack is the new welterweight champion. And maybe he fights Islam. That makes a lot of sense. The problem with Islam fighting Bala was that they trained together. And I think they had kind of set the rules.

1:01:00How many guys we see fighting between each other that they used to train before? Oh, I agree. I think they should fight. They should fight. Definitely they should fight. I think Kabib doesn't like that idea. Yeah. Yeah. That's how I feel. But it's not just that. I mean, Jaina's always putting out a million fires. I mean, think about it. They have 500 fighters on the what done in the roster at least. And you know, there's all these things that are happening. And like like the Armand Sarukian thing, like his back hurts the day of the fight. He's got to pull out like this is fucking crazy. This is you don't I mean like imagine that.

1:01:42You have this whole promotion based around this elite fighter who fought Islam in his first fight. Short notice. They go to a very close decision. Very close fight. Armand's got a lot better. Islam's got a lot better. Then they're going to fight again. And then the day of he hurts his back. Crazy. It happens. Yeah. Very crazy. Yeah. But if you will be in the Dana's place, who would be my next opponent? Islam. 100%. 100%. I wish they... I try to tell him that this weekend. That will be a great fight. That's the fight to make. Because you have a world champion versus a world champion. Like if anybody deserves a fight for the world title in the next weight class, it's you.

1:02:24It's simple. It's simple. You knocked out Max Holloway. I mean, it's simple. You knocked out Alexander Volkanovsky, one of the greatest of all time. It's simple. That's a no -brainer. That's the fight. You know, he doesn't want a fight 45 anymore. He wants a fight 55. World title shot. And nobody would argue with that. That would be a huge fight. Everybody would get excited about it. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully they make that fight happen. Yeah, hopefully. I don't have any say. Like I said, I'd get rid of the cage. I'd get... I'd get rid of... I'd fuck everything up for them. I would make it less marketable.

1:03:00Probably. I would. Anyways, if they give me the fight with Charles, it's going to be... That's what it's going to be. That's a great fight too. That's a great fight too. There's a lot of guys in that division. There's a lot of good fights for you at 155 pounds. Do you have a timeline of when you would like to fight at 155? I would like to fight with... With Islam. That's for sure. I would. I would like to fight him. But if they don't give you that fight, if they give you like a number one contender fight, when would you like to fight? I... I wouldn't fight for your number one contender fight. You only want to fight for the time?

1:03:32Yeah, of course. Really? Okay, of course. Now understand. That makes sense to me. Look, also, it's the most marketable fight. Everybody else is lost to him. I don't care if Islam decides that he doesn't want to fight me. I don't care. I said, tell you're going to have to fight me. Okay. You say that you are the war champion. You're going to keep dominating the division. All that. I'm here. You can't keep avoiding me all the time. So you would just sit on the sidelines rather than fight someone else? I don't think that they're going to do that. I don't think they would put me on a sideline because they asked me to...

1:04:08I work the belt because I told them that I wouldn't fight in 145 again. But I get the promise that I would fight for the style of my next fight. So how much time you will stop me and from the fighting? So they did give you a promise that when you vacated the belt, the next fight will start. If they give that chance to everyone, why not to me? They gave it to Henry Sejula, they gave it to Karamagraga, they gave it to George C. Pierre, they gave it to John. They gave it to everyone. Right. And I proved that I deserve that chance. As you said, I knock out two of the all -time grades. Two of the all -time grades.

1:04:50To the grades, work who was like dominating everyone in 145 division and max hallway. Great fighters, both of them. Especially after Max Hall was victor over Justin Gagey, which is like the greatest victory of his career. To knock him out after that? No one did it. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I'd say world title fight. But I don't get to make the rules. And the last fight he had was in 155 against Justin Gagey, who also falls for the title. Yep, so. Yeah. And then the other thing is there's not really a compelling challenger in 155 other than you. If you look at it, like he's kind of cleaned out the division, there's no rules.

1:05:32No one else. I mean, our mom's got to build himself back up. Yeah. He's not going to get a title shot. I would put Justin Gagey against Patty Pimblad, me against Islam. Once I pass him, I get the title. And you pulled me against party. Because I think that he's going to. You think Patty's going to be Justin Gagey? Easy. Wow. Really easy. Yeah, easy. Really easy. Wow. That's a crazy thing to say because Justin Gagey is a fucking animal. Yeah, but he doesn't know how to grapple. And patty knows. He's a division one wrestler. He knows how to grapple. He don't think he knows how to. He just chooses not to.

1:06:13He chooses to stand and fight. I don't think so. Did you ever saw him submitting someone? I don't believe he's ever submitted someone, but I think that's because he likes to just crush people. He likes to bang it out and fight. He wants to fight. What everyone likes is to dominate people and to win as soon as possible. If you have the ability to submit someone as soon as you can, you would do it. I think that's your mindset. I think Justin Gagey's mindset is to be the most violent person alive. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's one of the reasons why he lost some fights early in his career because he took unnecessary chances.

1:06:50And he fought recklessly. Then as he adjusted later in his career, he fought more intelligently. He took a lot of risks still, but he was more intelligent about it. He was more intelligent about the way he approached fights. And then he started winning and beating guys. And where he might have thrown himself into wars before. Like the Michael Johnson fight was just chaos, just a war. Just the first fight in the UFC just throws himself into chaos. I have that fight. Yeah, chaos. He would just try to see. He was like Michael Chandler, but a better fighter. Just more successful at it at a high level.

1:07:28So you're paying Justin Gagey over, Patty? I don't say that. I do think that Michael Chandler was 38 years old with a lot of miles on him. Although he's a fucking animal. And how old is Justin Gagey? He's just his five, 35. How old is Justin? 36 turns 37 in November. Yeah. That's when it starts to slip away. If you're natural, everything after 35, like this is one of the most extraordinary things about Alexander Valkyrie. And that's the type of guy that takes care of his body all the time. And he's like very strict with his health. I think he slept more at a date and at night. Anything. So the party.

1:08:12I think so. I don't know. They put the camera on him on the last pay -per -view. And he looked like he was so high. Like they're worried about his drunk. Because high doesn't give you a hangover. High doesn't kill your body. Drunk kills your body. If guys are in between camps getting fat and drinking, that's never a good sign. That's a bad sign. Because you're not just not training. You're deteriorating your body. If Justin Gagey's just smoking a little weed, I'm not worried about that. It's not the best for focus. He doesn't seem to be that guy that drinks a lot. No. I don't think so. I don't think so.

1:08:51Cocaine is the worst. Yeah, but he's the worst. When you hear guys doing coke, that's the worst. That's the one that deteriorates you more than anything. I never ever saw a coca in my life. Me neither. Never done cocaine either. When I was a kid, I had a friend whose cousin was hooked on cocaine. I got to see it up close. Yeah. I was like, fuck that stuff. That's a scary one for fighters too. Because the thrill of cocaine for some reason is exciting to people who love exciting things. Like there's something about fighters or adrenaline junkies. They like to be pumped up. And yeah, Connor seems to enjoy it.

1:09:25Which is one of the things that makes me think he probably won't come back. But if he does come back, it's got to be now. You know, again, at 36 years old now. Patty Pimble it. That's the fight. I hope you think so. That's going to be a big fight. Big fight. Yeah. But I don't even think Connor's in the drug testing pool anymore. No, I don't believe so. I don't believe so. Well, he can google that. Find out if he's in the drug. I think he pulled out the drug. He's going to come back. Yeah. If they give the the opportunities to, I don't know, to, to guys like, I don't know what 40 years old, like, I don't know, ski.

1:10:05You can have so many names that they fall that 40 years, 40 years, uh, H. Why not Connor? I know that someone a world title fight at 155. But would you make an exception for a column of Gregor fight in 155? But right now, right now, no, no. No. Good for you. Do you think it's going to be excited if I bid Islam and then I give the, the chance to Connor? No, I mean, like right now before Islam, like if the UFC calls you up and says, I know you want a world title fight, we guarantee you a world title fight after this. Actually, we had that talks. I love you. Yep. But yeah, I don't know. What was that talk?

1:10:43Tell me what that talk was. Come on, come on, come on. I've did this one. I'm not going to get some calls. You know how the UFC is. They're very specific. Don't say anything to no one. Well, no one's listening. You can tell everybody. Yeah. Only a couple of million of people is listening. Okay, go ahead. It's a little slip right by. Yeah, if they offer me a fight against Connor right now, we'll see why not. Why not? Why not? Why I wasn't saying no, I wouldn't say no. Just for the numbers. You just cut of that paper, dude, it hits two million buys. Yeah. Whoa, why not? That's the thing about Connor.

1:11:23It's like still. Yeah, even though he might not be the best fighter in the world right now, he's still the, he's the golden goose. Of course he is. Yeah, that's crazy. You can't say kind of amazing, you know, that's still he's still guarantees that many eyeballs will go to see him, you know. It just, that would be a great one. But what excites me more is the fight with Patty. Really? Yeah, that fight excites me even more. And if they could put that fight in Spain, in the Bayonet Bay of Stadium, I know that Dana doesn't like to put the events in stadium, but that's the only stadium in the world that they can close the roof.

1:12:07Oh, okay. Yeah. And this prepared for that kind of how many people? 80 ,000. You get 80 ,000 in Spain, easy too. Yeah, if not far from Spain, not probably. Oh my god, that would be insane. I'm not up to Spain for that. And, and a lot of people could travel from England to Spain. Oh, yeah. And that happens very often. But if they do it in Spain, it's got to be on spain time. They can't do that shit that they did with Leon Edwards for it. It has to be in spain time. But I think that with the, like the negotiations they are having with ESPN and I don't know in which platform they are going to put the UFC events, they're going to ask for space for four or five events in Europe in the prime time for Europe.

1:12:59Europe, Europe, Europe. This is, listen, Europe time prime time is fine because it's in the afternoon in America. That's fine. So the fight at one o 'clock in the afternoon, you people watch football games, a 100 million people watch a football game. Europe still has to be a virgin market. You know what I mean? Yes. You got 500 million people in Europe. It's more than the United States. Right, right. And if they did it on Netflix, everybody has Netflix. Everybody has Netflix. That might happen. That's why they're in negotiation right now. That will be a massive one in Spain. It will Spain. I can't against that pimple.

1:13:41What happened with you two? Because I saw the video where you guys yelling at each other. Was it in a hotel or something? Yeah, he said something about Georgia. Oh, he said something about your country. Yeah, he said, he said, like, now I understand why the, why the Russians are bombing Georgia or something like putting bombs in Georgia. Whoa. Whoa. Don't joke with that. You can joke about me. Say whatever you want to say about me, whatever. He's a mushroom. He is this. He's that. Don't talk about war because you don't know how is it. Right. That's a crazy thing to say. Don't say that. Yeah. So that was the beginning of it.

1:14:25Just out of nowhere, he said that. He said that on Twitter. Oh, wow. This episode is brought to you by Life Lock. Sometimes it's good to be a little controlling. It can help you protect yourself, your health, your well -being, and your possessions. There's only so much you can do, though, especially when it comes to your personal info. You probably use things like two -factor authentications, strong passwords and a VPN. But as much as you try to be in control of how your information is protected, there are lots of places that also have it. And they might not be as careful as you are. That's why Life Lock monitors millions of data points every second for identity threats.

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1:16:33Don't think wireless can be so transparent, so visible? Well, now you know, switch today at visible .com -slash -rogan. Terms apply, see visible .com for planned features and network management details. He said that on Twitter. Maybe he was too high, too drunk. I don't know. He was talking shit. You know what I mean? He gets people to pay attention. He's really good at getting people to pay attention. Yeah. He's really good at that. I mean, he could be the next Conor McGregor star, like that kind of a star, where the whole world is watching. He has that weird personality. Yes. Yeah, he has that.

1:17:10Well, he's very disarming, because people, they see, I talked about this in the last paper view. I said it's a very sneaky trick, because guys like you look at you the way you carry yourself, that's a fighter. Like you look at that guy's a dangerous motherfucker. But when you see Patty, he's dancing like this. His hair's flopping around like he's in the Beatles. You know, he's like, he seems silly, but then he fucks people up. And so I think people - Yeah, but he fucks people up like Michael Chandler. Right. But when he, he, he faced a real fight, who did he face? Well, he hasn't faced anyone that could yet.

1:17:43Like, he fucked up Michael Chandler better than Charles Levera did. It does, and Charles or Levera, even this what I was telling you before, like when you got 10 loses in your record, that's not one, two, three, four, five, six, except, that's 10. Like when you walk in with a guy that has 10 loses, the level of confidence is completely different. It's completely different than when you walk in with a guy that it's undefeated. Right. He's a dangerous guy in the striking ground game. Everywhere you look at him, he's a dangerous guy. He never tastes a lose. That's a different mentality. You gotta, you gotta have to kill him to give up.

1:18:24He's not gonna even give up. You gotta have to kill him. In the case of Charles, if he finds some adversity, he's gonna go to the ground, he's gonna sit, and he's gonna be waiting like till you end up the fight. This is what I think, this is what I feel, this is what I see. Certainly the case early in his career. I think things changed with him when he had a child. Then he went on that run and became a champion. And like when he beat Justin Gachi, when he beat all those guys, he was pretty elite man. He was really fucking good. When he beat Chandler, when Chandler beat him up in that first round, he came back in the second round and fucked him up.

1:19:04Who? Chandler. Yeah. I know what you're saying. I get it. There's a Connor's been tested 11 times last year, five there before none this year. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. He West tested this year or not? None this year. None this year. That's what I'm saying. 11 times last year. Yeah, I'm not sure if he's in the testing pool anymore. I don't know. I don't know. You know, I've heard no plans. You know, the UFC would tell me, I would say what's going on with Connor, and I don't even bring it up anymore. I think with him, it's going to happen like instantly. If something happens, well, that's crazy.

1:19:46I mean, if he's going to prepare, he needs like a real long camp to really get his body back to fighting shape, like real fighting shape. And he's got to remember, you know, what happened when he came back from boxing and then fought Dustin Poria, and he was probably going to face. Because if you pull him against me, he needs to die and be burned again.

1:20:13Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If when you think about like your division, when you were the champion at 145, would he have been the fight that you would want when he was in his prime at 45? Would that be the number one fight that you would wanted at 145? For sure. Yeah. For sure. My God. For sure. He was a dangerous guy in 145. He was so big. He was big, dangerous. Yeah. He had that markup power. Smart. Yeah. Yeah. One shot knockout power. Yeah. He had that. Yeah, but when he would make 145, I remember that was back when the weigh -ins were literally right there. You'd weigh guy in and then they would cheer in front of the crowd.

1:21:02Now the weigh -ins are early and it's a ceremonial weigh -in. So when Conor would weigh in, he would look like, death, death. Yeah. See if you can find the video of the weigh -ins with Conor McGregor versus Jose Aldo. Yeah. He looks like he was on a boat in the middle of the ocean for six months. Look, look at him. Look at his face. Wow. Look at his face. Look at that one right there with my Goldberg. Click that one with my Goldberg. Yeah. Click on that. My God. Look how fucking skinny he looks. Look at his face. His cheekbones. He looks like he just got out of like some Russian prison. Like that, you know what I mean?

1:21:42Bro, that one on the right isn't sane. It's fucking insane. With muscles. That's insane. I wonder how much weight he lost. I think he, he, he, he wallets around and 185. So he lost 40 pounds of what he fought? That's crazy. He fought also at the World of Way division, right? Yes. He fought, uh, well, he fought Donald Saroni. Who was really not a well -to -weight either? He was a 155 pounder, you know, but he wanted to fight well to weight when he came back. Like when they were talking about Chandler, he said he wanted to fight at middleweight. And Chandler was like, okay, like, but, you know, part of me wonders, like whether he was ever really going to come back, you know?

1:22:27It's, you know, he's got, I really think that at some point he's gonna, he's gonna come back because I don't think that he won't, he, he wants to live this sport with a defeat. Right. This what, uh, what, I don't think. I think that he's gonna come back, try to get the win and then retire in the octagon. Well, I'd like to see that. I'd like to see him one more time. It'd be good for him too to actually go through a real camp and stop partying, you know, it'd be good for him, for his family, for everyone. For everyone. But at that time point, he's gonna stop. He's got a lot of legal problems too, you know?

1:23:03There's a lot going on with him in Ireland. But he's, he's drying for the president. Well, they're talking about prosecuting him for old tweets too. Yeah, and yeah, Ireland is going crazy with their wokeshit with the restrictions and censorship. The same way the UK is, it's, it's really scary stuff. But they're prosecuting people for tweets. That's crazy. Yeah, England arrested like 4 ,000 people last year for posting things on social media. No way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, what did they say? You don't even have to say anything crazy. You know, you could just say, I don't want any more immigrants in my country and they'll, they'll fucking prosecute you.

1:23:42It's really crazy. Wow. Yeah, it's, it's, that's not the freedom. No, it's not a free space. It's a talitarian government. And it's, it's scary because it's, they're, they're using it to silence people. To silence people's opinions and crazy. See if you can find what's going on with Connor because there was something about Connor McGregor possibly being prosecuted for social media posts from, I believe it was 2000 and 23, some recent posts that he had made where they were going to bring them back up and prosecute him for. And he had also like the case with their relatives and all that. Yeah. And I think because he wants to run for president, of course, then they're going to use the law to try to stop him because look, he's very popular in Ireland and he might win, you know?

1:24:30I mean, if, if these people think that their country's being invaded by my eyes, to some people from Ireland, like what are the odds that Connor becomes the, the president, they told me like, probably zero. Connor McGregor will not face charges over social media posts made before and during the Dublin riots. Yeah, you know what? They said that about Trump too. That Trump wasn't going to win either. They said Trump is going, yeah, all the fucking newspapers, everything was saying the chances are none. No, but I asked to the people. I didn't ask. I didn't read the depends on who you're talking, though.

1:25:01Yeah. You know, it really depends on how we conduct some people to him. Oh, to him. Okay. Okay. They're like, no way. Yeah. Yeah. Look, he should be fighting. And he should be fighting while he can because you don't want to be 49 years old sitting back thinking if you could have just one more, could have got it together if I just stopped partying. And I really think that he's going to come back at some point, but we'll see. There's also the problem with that shin. You know, when a shin snaps like that, that's a nobody really comes back from that. He's fucked. He's fucked. He's he's toys fact. He's genius fact.

1:25:38He's body's fact with that that much parties and drugs and all that. You've got to have to pay that price at some point. Yeah. You are paying the price with you, helped. Yeah. Which is the dumbest thing you can do in your entire life. It is. Especially for an athlete. Exactly. He also suffered a lot with the weight cuts. That's a big damage for your body. That's also one of the reasons why I changed the weight class. Because I realized that my health is the most important thing in my life. You can have everything in this life. But if you are not healthy, you don't have anything. Yeah. You know, when you're cutting that much water out of your body, you're essentially getting to death's door.

1:26:25You're getting to death's door 24 hours before you fight. But you at a world championship level, which is crazy. You sometimes feel that you're really going to die. I wasn't able to sleep in 48 hours at all, because I was so dehydrated. My body was so like skinny and I wasn't dreaming with water. With food, with everything. I was my social media and reals. Everything was about the foot. Everything was about food. At that moment, you don't give a fuck about anything material. About anything. So tell me when you start. So if you were going to make 145 on Saturday, what is your weight cut or on Friday?

1:27:10What is your weight cut like for the week? When does it start? And what do you weigh before it starts? Okay. Basically, I start a weight cut. Since the first day, I started the training camp, which is 12 weeks. Really? Yeah. I'm on like very strict diet and I have only one cheat meal a week. On Saturday, on Wednesday, whenever I choose it, I have just one cheat meal. And at the same time, you have to perform at the highest level. You have to train as a motherfucker all the time. And you have like a thousand, 800 calories in your body. And you burn four, four thousand calories. Wow. So you are wasting so much energy, but you aren't getting back a very low.

1:27:58So that fucks with your mind, right? That fucks with your mind. And you don't feel happiness. You feel like stress depressed. You don't find happiness in anything. They could bring you all the money in the world, but you don't give a fuck at that moment. And about anything material. So you're doing it all through camp, but when you get to fight week, what do you weigh? We do the water load. I start on Sunday with eight liters. And I don't have carbohydrates. I don't have any sodium, salts and all that. Do you drink distilled water? Still water. Yeah. Distilled? Do you know what I'm saying? No, no, no, no.

1:28:42Just normal water. I'm not having carbohydrates, sodiums and fibers. You say fibers? Yeah, fiber. Fiber. Yeah, fiber. All I only have fat and proteins in a very small portions. And I drink eight liters on Sunday, then eight again on Monday, six on Thursday, Wednesday. I drink four, I think. And then on Thursday, I don't drink anything. Till Friday, till the waitings. Really? And before the waitings, I start dehydration, the dehydration. Like we do one session in the morning. And I have to lose almost from two to three kills. And the rest, I have to lose at night, because I always like to go to the bed on weight.

1:29:38I don't like to wake up in the morning and have it to cut the last part in the morning on Friday. When did you start drinking wine before the waitings? I did it twice in my career. It was once in Las Vegas. I was supposed to fight with, I was fighting with Damon Jackson. And I had like still six kills or something like that. That's a lot of way to cut. And the guy who was taking care of my nutrition, he called us and he told me, drink wine, drink half a half bar of wine. I'm like, you sure? Yes, he told me, because if you drink a liter of wine, you're going to wake up the next day if you don't put anything else in your body, with two liters less.

1:30:27Dehydration. Yeah, because the alcohol, it's going to be a pro -cater dehydration. I did it and it works. After that, I did it in my next fight. But then I was like, I don't feel good. Doing this in the wake -up. This is kind of crazy. It's fun, it's fun, because every one wants to, I don't know, everyone is almost dying that night. I was like, pardon with my team. So skinny, drinking wine. I'm like, what the fuck we're doing? And after one day, I have to face a monster inside the alcoholic experience in life. And so then you weigh in, and then what is the rehydration process like? And so I used to drink the electrolytes.

1:31:26And till I don't start to pee, I don't put any food in my body. I drink almost for three, four hours and small portions. Then right now, we are so lucky that we have the performance institute. We have great nutrition in that program that help us to do it from the right way. So I started drinking in half liter of electrolytes, for example, let's say for 20 minutes, I have to drink that. I can drink more. Then one that 20 minutes passed, I have to drink the other bottle like that, progressively. And so once you start to pee, then you allow yourself to eat food. Exactly. And what kind of food are you eating?

1:32:14Most likely carbohydrates. I don't use to eat any proteins, because it doesn't help you at all. To have a great performance inside the octagonal, right? Because the protein doesn't give you any, how to say, glucose? Glucose. That your body needs at that time. Everything you need, it's electrolytes and carbohydrates. That's all you need. Not even fibers. Okay, so we're going to feed like pasta. Yeah, pasta. How good is that taste after all that time? Amazing. Amazing. You could, the pasta for me that day, and I don't know how good you cook, but it will be amazing. Amazing. I don't care about it.

1:33:06So you've gone so long without carbohydrates. I have like almost a week and a half without carbohydrates, and I'm struggling for 12 weeks, because I have only one cheap meal. So once I finish the cheap meal, I know that in one week, I'm not going to have another cheap meal. So I'm going to have to eat whatever they tell me to eat. Like I wake up, I know that I'm going to have two eggs, with one slice of bread, and I'm going to have to train. I don't know how much in the morning, and then in the afternoon, I'm going to have to train again, and I'm going to have the same food all the time. And the good thing about that is that my wife, she was like a very important part in my last training camp, because he made my diet more fun.

1:34:01I didn't have to repeat the food all the time, because when I was in charge of that, just imagine what I was eating all the time, the same. All the time, this is it. Just the same boring food, just the same food. Because I didn't even have the opportunity that I have right now. Right now, I have a chef, I have set up my home with everything, everything is so comfortable, but before, I had to cook for myself, go to the supermarket, doing everything by myself, and it was tough. So all the foods weighed out, all the calories are measured, everything's very systematic. So with this extra 10 pounds, how much better do you think you'll be able to perform inside the octagon?

1:34:49Because I would imagine, physically, that's got to take a toll on you. As good as your performances were, and they were spectacular, but as good as your performances were, your body could not have been operating at 100%. 100%. You are going to see me at 155, that I'm going to touch someone, and I'm going to take his lights off. Even if I don't need to touch his chain, I just touch his head, and it will explode. I feel so powerful out that weight class, so probably so stable in the ground. Do you want to wrestle? Let's wrestle. No problem. I have the gas tank for five days, not five rounds. Do you think that a lot of fighters maybe diminish their potential by competing at a lower weight class for too long?

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1:36:14What do I mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well -groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken Parmesan delivered. A day in the sun? No, a bottle of rum? Yes, Uber Eats can definitely get you that. For almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats order now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region, C app for details. It depends. It depends. Some of them, yes, some of them know, because I think they are guys fighting in 145 that they could fight in 135, because they are smaller than they are. Like Josie Aldo. Like Josie Aldo.

1:37:00I mean, he was one of the best ever at 145, and really looks fantastic now on 135. Exactly. And says this is the first time at 35, and his career that he's ever taken nutrition seriously. And how did that... But at the same time, he was a war champion. Right. For sure. So what on? And one of the best. And one of the best. He would call the way that 135, and he wouldn't succeed at this level. Right. Because he wouldn't have the energy. But Josie Aldo was big at 145 back in the day. He would struggle to make 145 earlier in his career, but I just think he wasn't doing it the right way. Like you're doing it.

1:37:33You know, I think athletes of today are much more systematic about it. And they have more information about the nutrition. They have... We got more help from the performances to the eyes and tell you like... The UFC performances too is incredible. I remember when they first opened it. I was a little skeptical. I'm like, who's going to use this? What is the big deal? And then I went there. I was like, oh, bro. Oh, okay. Crazy. This is amazing. Without them, you wouldn't see many of the fights that we have seen. A lot of people would miss the weight. A lot of people. Yeah. So at 155, you're going to be able to eat more.

1:38:08You're going to be able to train more. You'll be able to recover better. Not bad. Not bad. Okay. They were really taking care of you. I can't wait. I can't wait to see it. I can't wait to wait. You can't wait. One of five. So take me through like what is a typical training week like for you? How much strength and conditioning do you do? How much... How much do you concentrate on technique? How much do you spar? Outside all inside the training camp. Let's go with outside the training camp first. Outside the training camp, I try to develop my skills in every discipline. Like I try to not mix it up.

1:38:49I don't train MMA at all. I do boxing classes, wrestling classes. I try to learn every discipline, separate. Why do you do that? Because when the training camp comes, I try to mix it up and polish everything that I have been able to learn till that moment. You know what I mean? Everything that worked for me in the wrestling and boxing, in the places where I feel comfortable, like that's why I want to develop all the time my knowledge. I want to get better all the time. And I can get better if I only go and train MMA. And I only drill the same things all the time. My head is getting stuck. Getting stuck.

1:39:34You know, I need to learn new techniques because I think that I have much more to learn in every discipline, like in BJJ. You never end up learning. All the time you learn new things, you see new things, you want to try it. And it takes some time that technique works for you and when you're rolling with someone, for example. So yeah, one thing is what you know and the other is what you do with what you know. How do you know how much time to allocate to each specific discipline? Because something like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, it's a never -ending journey. Like there's so many techniques. It's on, there's so many different combinations of things you could do to a human body when you're grappling.

1:40:21So the thing about me is like, you have to decide what kind of style do you want to have? Do you want to fight from the guard? How do you say guard? You want to pass the guard? Like there are different styles, right? But at some point, I was like, fighting all the time from the guard. I was doing like the beating balls, baby balls, everything. Because I needed to fill what the people feels when I'm passing the guard. The guard. Yeah. You know what I mean? So the same thing with boxing, for example, someone has a defensive style, someone has aggressive style, but from distance, someone needs to cut the distance and work more in the body.

1:41:10So I don't know, it's like, it's so difficult to explain to you guys. I know what you're saying, though. I think one of your most impressive performances was Josh Emmett. Because Josh Emmett, he's such a powerful puncher. He's such a dangerous puncher, but everything he throws you has murder on it, everything. But you just kind of slipped and moved with everything and just systematically broke him down. But you adjusted your style for his danger. You adjusted your style for him and just dominated the fight. I think that was one of the most impressive performances because it showed how skillful you could be.

1:41:48Whereas like, imagine if Michael Chandler fought Josh Emmett, it would be fucking madness. Just madness. Two dudes just trying to murder each other. Just fucking throwing the haymakers. You know, but what you did was you broke down what he was doing. You found your openings. You started to get your timing. You started to figure out. You put all his movements into your computer and then you rolled with everything. Everything he threw, you rolled with. When he had big shots, he moved with them. All his big shots were coming with the right hand. Like, he's the type of guy that ends up every combination with the right hand.

1:42:29So everything I had to do, it's all the time. I didn't have to exchange the punches with him. I had to let him throw me all the punches, roll his right hand and then style with my combinations. And this is what I really did. Like I was hearting him with the cupcakes. Then I was going for my combinations and long combinations all the time. An MMA, no one works the long combination. Combinations, no one. They always used to do one, two, one, two, three. But no one does. One, two, three, three, four, five, six. Hmm. You know, and like the giant Herbert fight. Exactly. Usually you're getting two punches.

1:43:06Everyone blocks two punches. But after the second one, they put their hands down again. Then it's when I go again. Like one, two, one, two, three, four, five, boom. You're not waiting for that. And if I change the levels and I go and I had in the body, cupcakes, I go for the take downs. I mix it up, you get crazy. It's interesting that you didn't start boxing until you're 17. Because you're probably the best boxer in not just the featherweight division, but you might be the best boxer in the sport. In terms of your movement and then your one punch power. Your one punch power is pretty fucking crazy.

1:43:44Which I think you either have or you definitely can develop it. And it definitely is dependent upon technique. But either you have power or you don't have power. So did you always notice that? Like from the very beginning when you first started training? I always had power. Am I crazy? Yeah, it is. It's like God -given thing. God -given thing, 100%. I always had that power. I remember myself without much technique, but I was connecting the punch and putting guys to sleep in the trainings. And I wasn't that skeletal guy, but I had that power. But you were smart enough. So this is a difference between like a Josh Emmett approach and your approach.

1:44:24You were smart enough to realize that, okay, I've got this power. But now I need to develop laser sharp technique. Of course. And I have to be able to find the moment. I don't have to just throw it and believe that I have the power. If I connect it, I put you to sleep. No, it's not if I am going to connect you that punch. I'm going to work for that. And I'm going to find that specific moment to put your lights out. And I know with everyone, even in 155, I know that I'm going to be able to find that moment where I'm going to be able to connect that one punch or two or three punches. Because sometimes it's not only one.

1:45:03I'm able to combine it punches. You know, sometimes you think that I'm going for your head and I'm going my main combination is to go to the body. And I go to that with that liver shot. And that hurts also. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And later by maybe I don't knock you out, but it takes a lot of cardio from you. A lot of moments, you start to doubt in yourself. You're getting like, wow. He connects me this punch. And in the chin, I'm done. And you're starting to doubt, to doubt. And then the doubts kill you at the end. Yeah. It's like, later by later, later by later. Yeah, it's interesting how few guys really work the body well.

1:45:49That's one thing about Jack Delamadalena is he's a very good body puncher, which is one of the things that I think is very interesting about this fight with Belama Hamid. He's a dangerous body puncher. He's very good at mixing up and down. No one usually used to attack the body in the UFC. I don't know why. It's such a beautiful technique to go and work the body. Not only the head, everyone goes for the head. But there are also weaknesses in the human beings body, which is the body, especially with those little MMA gloves. You know, everything cards. Yeah, and you're digging into that rib cage.

1:46:27But it's just it's interesting how the sport evolves. And I think when a guy like you comes around that does mix things up so well and does have elite boxing, the next generation will also copy you. They will copy your style. You know, because like think about the calf kick. There was no calf kicks forever. Forever. I don't know when they style with the calf kicks. Benson Henderson. Benson Henderson. Benson Henderson. He was the first guy I ever saw doing. He was doing a lot. And I remember pointing it out. He wasn't doing it as effectively where he was like crippling guy's movement. But he was doing it a lot.

1:47:02And then I remember when Dustin Porier fought Jim Miller. Jim Miller almost took him out with calf kicks. Justin Porier's calf was destroyed in that fight. And then Dustin Porier became a really good calf kicker after that. And then it became ubiquitous. Everybody has to have a calf kick. But it comes from Muay Thai. It comes from kick boxing. It comes from what it does. But in Muay Thai they don't throw it very often. It's not a common technique in kick boxing or Muay Thai, which is interesting. It's not as common as it is in MMA. It's not so much. It's like a jab. But for the legs. It's like a jab.

1:47:37I also cripples your movement, which is terrible. Because you can't punch as hard. Because you don't have a left leg anymore or right leg depending on what's for. At the same time, it distracts you. A lot. Right. You know what I heard so much. It hurts. It distracts you. You don't only have to think about the hands. You have to think about also about the kicks. Well, is he said that when he lost Alex Pereira, the first fight in the UFC, he said he wasn't hurt that bad with the punches. He said he couldn't move. He said his leg was so destroyed. He said my left leg was so compromised I couldn't move.

1:48:09And then in the second fight, when Alex, when he knocked Alex out in the first round, he said my leg was fucked already. He's like, he was getting me again. He's so sneaky with that calf kick. Because he throws it. He's got that weird style. He stands. And he just kind of throws it out there. And you don't even see it coming. Because he's not twisting his hips. And it's still. He hits so hard that he doesn't have to turn his body weight into it. And he's still fucking you up. And at the same time, he had that muscle memory. He was like, if he starts with the calf kick, I'm going to be fucked. Yeah.

1:48:42He said that to me. He's like, at the end of the round, I was like, all this motherfucker did it again. I can't believe he got me again. He's like, my leg was fucked. And then he caught him with that right hand. It's your all -time favorite fire to watch in the UFC. Boy, I don't think I have one. I don't think I have one. It's just top five. You're in there. Yeah. Top five. Really? Yeah, for real. I'm always joking. For real. Yeah, definitely. Spatley, how could you not be? You knocked out two Hall of Famers, two of the all -time greats. Volcanovsky and Max Holloway are all -time greats. Two of the greatest featherweight champions.

1:49:21So if you're a great featherweight champion, you're the greatest in a division that probably has, if not the most skill. There's like, there's an argument for the most skill. I think it's 45 and 55. I think those are the two divisions that have the most skill. Yeah. So to be a champion at 45 or 55, you're a champion in the most skillful weight class. Like, look at 45. So many fucking killers at 45. Now, like, who was John Silva just did the Bryce Mitchell? And he wasn't even ranked. Yeah. You know what I mean? This guy is a motherfucker, man. You know, and these guys are coming up, but they're so goddamn good.

1:49:56And Yaya Rodriguez, you know, you got these guys. They're so skillful. You got so much talent. I don't know what to tell you about, Yaya. They're like, I'm not a big fan of him. Yaya? Yeah. No. Okay. No. No, I don't know. I see, I see him. He's the type of guy that you don't even need to take him down. He goes to the ground by himself. I don't know. He's like very spectacular. The way he fights and the striking and the kicks he chose and all that. I don't know. I'm not a big fan of him. I'm fan of Woke and Max Holloway. Well, actually, they were the smartest guy. The smartest guys that I ever faced inside the octagon.

1:50:36I felt that they were smart. They had that fight. They cute. They know how to fight. Do you think Max Holloway made a mistake? In going up to 55 and then back down to 45 again. Because he got big when he fought. 100%. Yeah. I think so. 100%. Yeah. He looked too compromised. He didn't look healthy at 45. He gets crazy for the title shot. He was like, take the gold. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I understand it. I get it. I understand it. And the guy who was the 145 pound champion, he knew it would be hard to make the way, but he felt like he could do it. But the thing is he gained so much muscle to get the 55 to fight Gagey.

1:51:15And he did it over a long period of time where he really bulked up well. But at the same time, I don't know. If he wouldn't try it, he would stay for a life like with the doubt that if I. Yeah. Yeah. So another one is Pereira. Be just because what he's done inside the octagon is so crazy. Two division world champions is a short period of time and hadn't been fighting MMA for, but three or four years. Crazy. It was crazy. And it's also what he does when he hits people. Like what he did to, well, I mean, but basically what he does to everybody when he connects. I mean, his power is just different than what he did to Jamal Hill.

1:51:57One left hook, boom. And Jamal Hill who's good at taking a shot. All sudden he's gone. You know, he's just there's some Yuri Pahasca that fight. Like the second fight, he's crazy. Crazy. He just like he hits you one time and so wise with it with a head kick, right? Head kick in the second round, but dropped him with a left hook. He was basically done after the first round because it was at the buzzer. He hit him with a left hook and then he drops and then the bell rings. And then he knocks him out with a head kick in the second round. But he he's just got this crazy style that's different than anybody else's style.

1:52:32And he's such a specialist, such a kickboxing specialist. Two division world champion in glory and then goes on and becomes a two division special. And 37, you know, he's older. He's an older guy, you know, to be fighting at such an elite level. You know, John Jones definitely. John Jones one of the greatest of all time. I mean, just what do you think about he's going to come by? He's going to fight Tom. Yes, I think you'll fight Tom. I think you'll hang out. You don't think so? No, really? I don't think so. Okay. For what? For glory. He already has the glory. Yeah, one more glory before the lights fade.

1:53:14Yeah. Yeah. I think John's a conqueror. I think he is. I think he's sit back. He's the best off of all time. No one can say the opposite of that. He's the best. Look, the guy developed a spinning back kick at 36. Did you have a spinning back kick? His whole career. And then I'll say knocks out steeper with a spinning back kick for the heavyweight title at 36, 37 years old. That's crazy. And they showed me a video, three days ago, four days ago, John before the fight with Steve, he was practicing that kick at the day of the fight. Yes. And he said something like, this is the kick. I'm going to knock him out with this kick.

1:53:59And the guy showed me the video. That's crazy. Well, John's fight IQ is insane. Insane. Insane. Insane. Yeah. He's a smart guy. And did a lot of his career, partying, which is even crazier. Like, diminished his body, did cook. Like, one of the things he said to Daniel Cokane, with Daniel Cormier, rather, which was one of the coldest things anybody's ever said. He said, I beat you when I was on Coke.

1:54:28That's such a cold pun, I didn't think to say. It's so cold, blooded. It's so cold blooded. He's so crazy. He was so good. But he was so good, he was better than everybody in his division so he didn't work hard. But then when he has to work hard, he's fucking terrifying. Like, when he fought Alexander Gustafson, barely trained. They said he barely trained. Barely was in the gym. They said they were really worried about him. They were Greg Jackson said they were even considering not letting him find. Like, you shouldn't be finding. You're not training. Yeah. And then he guts it out in the final rounds.

1:54:58When's the decision? Very close fight. Then they have a rematch. And in the rematch, he's fucking trained. And then he just destroyed him in the rematch. The first fight was very competitive. Very second one. Yeah, he done me a good job. Not competitive at all. Yeah, when John is focused and John is in shape and training, he's the greatest of all time. I think he fights Aspenal because I think it's going to be a lot of money. It's glory and look, Aspenal is amazing. He's unbelievable. He's fastest. Fuck for a heavyweight. He's big. He can grapple. Black belt and jujitsu. He's got knockout power.

1:55:33But he's never been in deep water. Ever. I don't even know if he's going to do a second round. I don't want to say that he doesn't have any chance because everyone has it. One punch can change everything and inside the octagon. Of course, we every one think that John, John is going to get it. But you can't count him out at all. To Tom Aspenal. But I don't think that he's going to come back. Me personally. What is this here? One time. Andrea Lovsky took him to the second round. That's it. Oh, really? Wow. I don't even remember that. And then you TK him. That's four years ago. That's kind of crazy if you look at his career.

1:56:15It's all one and two. And then in Bama, he had a two round fight. That's great, but it's also not great because he doesn't have any deep water experience. You know, if you're fighting a guy like imagine if he fought Steve Bay when Steve Bay was in his prime. Where he fought Kane. You can't have one round fights and expect to beat Kane Velasquez in a five round war because the chances are you're not going to catch him in the first round. And he's going to his cardio is just like an alien. Yeah, but at the same time, you don't know how he's going to look at the four than fifth round. Right. He might be great.

1:56:53He might be great. Sure, he might be great, but he doesn't have that experience. So in his head, you've got to think there's got to be some no matter how confident he is. There's got to be a couple of questions. If you've never been to like John has no questions. Right. There's no questions in John Jones's head. He's gone through five round wars like the Gustafson fight. Five round war, no training wins. He knows that he's got what it takes. He's got heart. It's it's undeniable. So there's no questions. But with Aspenalds, like, yeah, he get everybody out of there. He's got the confidence that he gets everybody out of there.

1:57:26That's for sure. Like he's got the confidence that he connects. He's so fast and athletic for a heavyweight. And he's a legitimate heavyweight. Like Tom Aspenalds, not making 205. He's big. He is big. He's a big, he's big. So for him, you know, it's. But John Jones is special. He's special. He is special. And he has that fight that he he's not that type of guy that he walks in and for example, I don't know. Francis Ningenu. You know that he got that one punch power. But he doesn't have the same level of fight that he has. John Jones. Right. You know what I mean? What John is like, if he feels that you are the interest in the striking, he's going to grab your legs.

1:58:10Try to model you a little bit in the ground. Then if you go in the second round with him in the striking, you're going to be tired. He also beats the fuck out of your knees. That front leg side kick to the knee, the oblique kick to the knee. That's a bad guy. He wants to hurt you. Try to fuck you up. He doesn't care to go with the elbow with the knee. He wants to hurt you. John went, you know, when he fought a Tiago, Tiago Santos at the end of that fight, Tiago needed two knee surgeries. Both of his knees were destroyed. And he was basically never the same fighter since. Ever after that fight.

1:58:41His pull up with that guy and it was on never ever ever. We fought again after that and he left the UFC, but his his knees were never the same. He had multiple knee surgeries. After that fight. Crazy. Both of his knees got kicked out. I mean, he was front leg side kick in the shit out of his knees. And why did I about use the train sometimes? MMA. Yeah. Gigi, what did you do? Most of Gigi, I did Muay Thai. My started in Taekwondo and then I started at this grade. That's great. I would love to share some training with you. I would love to share some training with you too. I want to see what you do, man.

1:59:11I watched you grapple with Marab. I was super impressed. Yeah. I watched a video you grappled with. I mean, anyone who could do that to Marab, like holy shit, because people think about you, they're scared of you're striking. But one of the things, like you opened up a lot of people's eyes in the Ryan Hall fight. Because Ryan Hall was this weird puzzle. He was like this elite Brazilian dudes who black belt, who do a lot of strange things. Like he would turn his back to people and do weird things. He'll hook BJ Penn like that in the first round. Like with that Imanati role. Yeah. But when you dominated him like that, I was like, Jesus Christ.

1:59:47And then you put his lights out. I was like, wow. Because people think when people see a guy who can strike like you do, they kind of forget about the ground game. You know, they forget that your ground game is very elite too. You know, which is really interesting, because you tend to put people in categories of danger. But with you, it's all danger. Like you have a very well balanced game, you know, which is unusual, like Pereira, for instance, doesn't have a balanced game. You know, his game is, he's going to connect and you're going to wake up. You know, that's all it is. His game is kickboxing.

2:00:23But your game is like, it's everything. It's all over the place. You know, like the Bryce Mitchell fight. It's everywhere. It's stand up. It's the ground. It's comprehensive. It's like George St. Pierre when he was in his prime. It was coming from all different angles. You never knew if he was going to take you down. You didn't know if he was going to strike with you. It was all, your mind was overwhelmed with possibilities. Which is, in my opinion, what I like to watch. That's what I like the most. A guy who can do everything. I love specialists. I love like Damian Maya. Because when Damian Maya would get you, who'd he clinch you, like, oh, you're fucked.

2:00:55You're fucked. To this day, the one fight that drives me the most crazy where referee fucked it up was Kamaro Usman and Damian Maya. Because in the first round, Damian Maya had Kamaro Usman's back standing up, had one leg laced, had his back, but it was taking too long and the referee separated them. And I'm like, you motherfucker, he's so close. He's so close. This is it. Look at this shit. Like Kamaro Usman's in deep shit here. He's in deep shit here. And the referee fucking separated them. This is crazy. What are you doing? This referee, this drives me nuts. Go back it up a little bit. Back it up a little bit.

2:01:38Because it's before this. It's before this. So, like, once he finally secures it, go a little bit before that. A little bit before, a little bit before, a little bit before. Maybe you can do it right from the moment where they clinch up. Okay, right here. So as soon as he clinches up and he ties that leg, as soon as he gets his hands together, Kamaro's in deep shit, right here. Deep shit. Kamaro has one loss on his record and that's by RearNake Choke. And now he's grappling with one of the best to ever do it. To this day, this fucks me up. This is one of the reasons why I hate when they separate fighters.

2:02:18I hate when they stand people up and I hate when they separate fighters. This is a huge mistake here by this referee because you've got one of the greatest ground specialists of all time. Do you think that he was the most dangerous guy in the ground? Yes, in his prime. In his prime, he dominated people. Oh, God. He's just so close, man. Kamaro's in real trouble here. The way his arm is compromised behind his back, he's fucked here. You got to get out of this. You can't get separated just because the crowd's booing, the referees like to involved, get the fuck out of there. Get out of there and let him work because if he gets to the ground, Kamaro might be fucked here and there's two minutes to work.

2:03:01There's plenty of time to this day that drives me nuts. I think something very interesting there with the butterfly. Yes, with that left butterfly. Yeah, he's constantly keeping you off base and you know that if you make any mistakes here, that right hook is coming over and the arms coming over the top. As soon as he lets go, yes. So as soon as he lets go with that arm, that arm that he's got trapped, that arm that he's got trapped with his left arm, as soon as Kamaro, if he gets that arm over the top of the shoulder, Kamaro's fucked, man. This is a terrible spot to be. And for the referees to separate them and not let him work, I was talking to Matt Sarabata the other day and he was like, yes, they fucked them.

2:03:42Yeah, he fucked them. They fucked them. Then Kamaro wins this fight and then you know, I was the world changes. It changes because this could have been a loss and then Kamaro could have been back to the drawing board. It's a bad situation to be in with the ground. So you look, now he has this advantage of being able to stand up again. Like why? Why does he have this advantage? Why? Why? You should be back where you were. There's no reason to separate those guys. Referee mistakes are crazy. You know, like there's moments in fights where referees make mistakes where a fighter's whole career just changes, just flashes before their eyes.

2:04:23The other day also something happened in the car with Dan Ega. Yes, yes. I don't know why he stopped to fight. Yes, that was a bad decision too. That was bad as well. Same thing. Charm would, yeah. I think he would wind the fight anyways, but he didn't have to stop the fight. There was a bad stoppage. There was a bad stoppage. Yeah. Yeah, there's bad stoppages, man. I mean, it happens. It happened to Jared Cannonier. Jared Cannonier had a bad stoppage. I guess who was that against? Was it Emel Elv? The war's that pitch. There were a lot of lurking against Ben Askron. Oh, yeah, that was the worst one.

2:05:04That was the worst one. They thought he was out and he wasn't out. I was so excited for that fight. And probably was beating the fuck out of him too before that headlock. Yeah, that was terrible. That was a bad stoppage. Yeah, there's been some bad stop. But, you know, look, referees have the second hardest job in the sport. The first hardest job in the sport, yeah, here it is. This is Jared Cannonier and Emel Elv. So he gets, look at that right there. That's crazy. That's a crazy stoppage. He stopped the fight? Why? Yes. Yeah, look at this. He got hurt. He got hurt, but he's covering up. And by the way, Jared Cannonier can fucking take it, man.

2:05:38He comes back. Jared Cannonier came back against Rodriguez in his last fight. He was hurt way worse than this. And he came back to score a knockout. But that was a crazy stoppage. It just, you know, like I said, referees have the second hardest job. Fighters have the first hardest job. Second hardest job is being a referee. Because those moments when you make a decision, like, ah, you can't take it back to fight over. That's true. It's terrible. It's hard to be a referee. Yeah. And then there's the judging. Some judges. The judging. Yeah, that's also something that drives me crazy. It's like, how do they keep having the same bad judges come back again?

2:06:22That's what's crazy. Because the UFC has no control of the judges. The judges are all established by the athletic commission. Yeah. So sometimes you get great judging. And he's like, oh, the judges are good tonight. These are good decisions. And sometimes you get what the fuck is going on? Yeah. Sometimes judges are horrible. This is horrible. Does the making sense? No, if they give you more points for wrestling, for shaking, for defending. Right. It's crazy. Well, some judges just aren't qualified. They don't have a martial arts experience. They don't have a background. You know, they just learned how to judge.

2:06:57That you can't, I don't think you can do that. It's like, I don't speak Spanish. But if you taught me some Spanish and then I was judging Spanish, what I, what the, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not qualified, right? You are not. Right. So if you have a guy who doesn't really understand who's got the dominant position, like, maybe you see a bullshit guillotine that has no chance. It's not like they never fought. It's, they not even never trained. Right. Exactly. Most of them. I remember early on in the UFC, one of the judges turned to one of the people next to this person. It was a woman.

2:07:35She turns to this person. He goes, what is he doing? Norway. Yeah. Yeah. What is he doing? Someone was trying to get a Camura. She's like, what is he doing? She didn't know what a Camura was. So how did they get there? They were boxing judges. So the boxing judges, they started using them for MMA fights with no martial arts experience at all. Never, never stepped on the mat, never put in a mouthpiece, never got punched in the face. That's crazy. That's crazy. They don't know how it works. And it's their judging at a professional world championship level. At the highest level. It's crazy. It's crazy.

2:08:11I think they should have more judges. Let me ask you something. What do you think was the, the K of success of the UFC? Like, it was, they know what? It was the matchmakers. It was the fighters. It was the promotion. What it was? I think the big thing was the ultimate fighter. I think everybody kind of agrees with that. The ultimate fighter reality show, what made the UFC huge was that first season of the reality show because this was 2005. So reality shows were really popular back then. This is, you know, survivor and fear factor. And it's always reality shows and big brother. And so they had this reality show that people were watching with fighters.

2:08:50And then they have the finale. And in the finale, four -scripted fight, Stefan Bonner. And it's such a crazy fight that people are just telling their friends that the ratings were going up as the fight went on. And, you know, the fatitas, the people that owned the UFC before this current company, they were in the whole $40 million. And they just kept losing money. And they said, listen, this is the last, they were going to sell the UFC at one point in time. And then they got to this point where they're like, look, let's just try this one more thing. Let's just try this one more thing. And they did this, this reality show.

2:09:26And the reality show worked. And then 2005, and then they had Chuck LaDelle. And Chuck LaDelle was the perfect poster boy for this new cage fighting thing. This fucking maniac with a Mohawk and a tattoo on his head. And he's just crushing everybody. You know, he was the perfect guy because the fights were so exciting. And he had this insane style, this insane, almost like Michael Chandler style, but better. But better. Very, very entertaining. Just worry. He was a good boxer. Good striker. Fast hands. Yeah. Fast hands, vicious knockout power. And he was a wrestler, but he didn't wrestle anybody.

2:10:00He was a heavyweight. Light heavyweight. Yeah. Big guy. Yeah, he was a light heavyweight. Big guy, chaos, people with one punch. And you know, it was perfect for the sport because like he was so exciting and he looked the part. He was like a maniac. And after we'd win, he'd go, he'd run around the cage. He was so exciting. So exciting. He was the poster boy. He was the guy. He was the guy that put the sport on the map because people would watch him and they'd go, jeez. Yeah, that time, time lying off MMA was so fun. It was fun. It was fun. Oh, yeah. And then when rampage came out with him, you know, he became the man and, you know, and then John Jones comes along and, you know, it's like the sport.

2:10:38That's what's crazy about John, right? And John's been dominant now for like what, 15, 16 years. Yeah. That's nuts, man. That's why I say he's the best. He's the goat. He's the goat. I don't know how they, I don't know how they pulled him as the number one pound for pounds. He's the number one pound for pounds. You know, it's just because he doesn't fight as often as Islam, you know, Islam is defended as title more recently, more often against top flight competition. Whereas John, you know, John takes a year off. Does he hear off here? You're off there. But when you look at the overall record, the overall career, he's the greatest of all time.

2:11:14But when I, when I talk about like just technique, you got to listen to the other thing about mighty mouse, too, man. Mighty mouse in his prime was a bad motherfucker, man. He would do shit to guys like suit when he suplexed Ray Borg and caught him on an arm bar in the middle of the air and finished him. You don't think so? I see your face. I see your face. No, no, no, no, no. It's not like, but I don't know. I never was a big fan of him. No, no. Never. I think when you call yourself a Mickey Mouse, mighty, mighty mouse. So I always thought that he was a Mickey Mouse. And I broke out the fuck you call yourself a Mickey Mouse.

2:11:59No, he was a good fighter. He was a good fighter. He was a very technical fighter. He dominated the whole division. How many times he defended his belt? How many times? The 14 times. Many times. He fucked a lot of people up. But then there's an issue where the quality of the competition in the 125 town division back then was not at the level that it is now. Like Pantosha? He's a bad motherfucker. I would have loved to see Alechandre Pantosha versus mighty mouse in their prime. Pantosha is a fucking animal, man. I guys say fucking animal. There's a guy coming up in 125. He fought in the last paper in London.

2:12:39His last name is Kamana in the 125. He's going to be a pro in that division. He's a very skillful fighter. Well, I think like all weight classes, now you have the best fighters of all time. Because we see guys from the Dana White contender series now that are coming along that enter into the UFC for their first fight. And you see these guys like Jesus Christ. Guys look like there's 15 pro fights in the UFC. They look elite. You know, that's a cool program also. Dana White contender series. That's something cool because they have some story behind them before they get to the UFC. And that's cool.

2:13:16And actually they make a good matchmaker, much making also for that fight. I like to see sometimes Dana White contenders series all within some fight nights. Yeah, you get to see that. Well, that's where we found Sugar Sean O'Malley. You get to see guys. I prefer that to the ultimate fighter because I don't want to watch other in the house, bullshit, and all the games that they play. I don't care about all that. I don't care. I just want to see him fight. Not anymore. But before you were very entertaining in the beginning. Yeah, in the early days. But I mean, now they're on like season 2000. Like who far there's been so many seasons.

2:13:52Like I can't even keep track. I forget who won. Yeah. There's so many sureless. But my point is that the caliber of new guys when they're just entering the like Mauricio Rufi, perfect example. Yeah, you see this guy first fight. He's like lightweight, right? Yeah, he's fucking huge. You see this guy first fight in the UFC like, whoa, this guy is elite already. You know, same thing with John Silva elite already. Like these guys, they're entering into the sport at a very Carlos protest. Same thing. Like right away, like you're seeing like a very high level right away. And I just think that because there's so many guys like you to watch.

2:14:34There's so many guys like, you know, Hamzaad and all these people, you get to see elite talent. So these young fighters that are coming up, they have a higher level to. Them before. Yeah, a higher level to aspire to. That's true. Now like the sport is growing that the talents are better than before. Yeah, because the sport has developed so much that right now you have so much experience. You can learn so much about the game like even in YouTube. You go on YouTube, you can learn everything by yourself. I think in the future, guys like you will be everywhere. There will be only guys like you at world championship level.

2:15:15I don't think there'll be any specialists anymore. I think there'll be guys who are elite everywhere. This one, what I was saying like all the time. Now it's time for the new generation. What's the new generation that if you want to want to be the best, you have to be the best. And everywhere the fight takes the place in the ground and the wrestling and the striking. You have to be good everywhere because that's how the sport is developing right now. Because before you were good only in wrestling, you would take people down and not probably. You could become a war champion. My rag now, so tough, so tough.

2:15:56The competition all the time is higher and higher and higher. And there's more knowledge in the sport. Yeah, there really is. It's very inspiring and it's very interesting because there's no other sport where you could go back and look at it from 1993 to 2025 and it's almost like a completely different sport. The athletes are so much better than they were. I mean, even from like 2000, go back to 2000 and watch the sport and then watch it today. At least in the UFC. It changed a lot. It changed everything. Everything. The production. Oh yeah, everything. Everything. Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting because it's the one sport also that translates to all languages.

2:16:45Like everybody understands it. But UK is so special that because you saw the sport growing since nothing and you saw so many great fights in front of you. Yeah, I'm very lucky, man. Yeah, that's. I feel very fortunate. What about you? Like, do you have a plan where you want to retire or you are just enjoying and you love what you're doing? Because I think that it's a, I don't know, you are enjoying a lot. Yeah, I just enjoy it. I don't think about retiring. Yeah, no. If Dana White quits on my quit, but that's it. Yeah, yeah. It's actually my contract. No. Yeah, if he leaves, I leave. Yeah, so in my contract, if he leaves, I don't have to stay.

2:17:26Why that? Something personal. I wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't for him. Yeah, yeah, he's my friend. He talked me into doing it. I mean, I started working for the UFC before him. I started working for the UFC in 1997 when it was nothing. Nobody was watching. It was, we did it at a, a small, like a high school auditorium in Dothin, Alabama. You had to take a propeller plane to get there. What did this look? Scary ass planes. And that was the first time V -Tor fight. Okay. I was actually training at the same gym as V -Tor. When V -Tor made his debut, V -Tor was 19 years old. And we were at Carlson Gracies.

2:18:02He's not very young. Yeah, yeah. We were at Carlson Gracies gym in Hollywood. Hollywood, California. That's where I was training. I just dumb luck. I was a white belt. I just started. So you, how old you were when you started like training or you had some relationships with the sport? Well, Jiu -Jitsu. Well, martial arts, I started when I was 15. Well, I started when I was 14, but really seriously, when I was 15. And then I competed in Taekwondo from 15 to 21. And then I kickboxed until I was 22. And then I was doing comedy at the same time. And then I realized like, I put something crazy about you is, when I hear you explaining some positions, I'm like, this guy has to know how to fight, have to do it.

2:18:42Because the way he is explaining it, I couldn't be able to explain it to Nama. One World Champion. I know the game, but you explained like way better than anyone else. I think that you put 10 World Champions together. You still explain much better than all of us. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. Well, I learned how to explain it because I learned how to teach people that didn't know what was happening once it went to the ground. Because in the beginning, nobody understood the ground game. Exactly. You know, and I'm a black belt Jiu -Jitsu. So when it goes to the ground, I can explain what's happening.

2:19:17Very specific. Yeah, very specific. Well, you have to be specific because some people don't know. Like sometimes I'll be watching with my wife at home. Like we watch her fights that I'm not calling. And she's like, what's going on? And I have to be like, his right arm is in trouble right now. Like see what is elbow is? Now, if he can get his elbow past this point, he's fucked. I'm like, okay, now he's fucked. And then I would explain it. And I would say now what he's going to do is going to take his right leg. He's going to wrap it up with the top. Oh, he's got it. Oh, he's got it. Okay. He's going to sense the left leg over the top.

2:19:44That's it. That's it. That's it. You're the best. Yeah, but that's just I, it's you can't say passion. Yeah. Either you love it or you don't love it. And if you don't love it, you can't pretend it won't work. No one's going to believe you. Like if you're just a regular sports guy, say like you call hockey and they hire you. You're going to learn about MMA and you're going to call MMA. Come on. And come on. There's no you're not going to be able to do it right. Of course. Because you got to do it like you like if I was calling hockey, I'm like, yay, this fucking puck went in the net. Woo. I don't get a shit.

2:20:16I don't get a shit if the puck goes in the net. It doesn't mean anything to me. But when someone gets your fucking neck, yeah, fucking shit, and you see the guys are going to top. He's top. That that to me is life. That's everything. That is like it's not just winning. You're not just winning. You're you're killed that guy. We can say that. I promise you. We can see your passion every time. Like even ragging along. Yeah, I feel your passion. So like I say, I feel your your passion. Like you passionate about what you think. And that's something that I add more people like you. Well, I wouldn't do it if I didn't feel that way.

2:20:50I don't have to do it. I don't do it for money. I just do it. I mean, this is only. Person I work for is the UFC. Everything else I do for myself. Everything I work for myself. I'm self employed, except for the UFC. But I've been working for them for 20 fucking three years. Yeah, 23 years. 23 years. Yeah. And then before that, I did it two years before that. So it's 25 years total. And when was the moment? Maybe I'm going like to the but then I want to ask you this. When was the moment when you feel like I'm succeeding life? I feel that I'm having success. And what's for you actually success? Like how do you describe it?

2:21:30Well, I guess the moment I didn't worry about success anymore. I don't think about success. I think about what do I enjoy doing? And am I doing it the best that I can do it? That's what I think about. I don't think, oh, I'm going to make more money. Oh, I'm going to do this. And now I want to do. I want this goal and that goal. I'm a process oriented person. I think about the process of what I'm doing. And then the results come. So I think like what am I doing and I doing it the best that I can do it? And if I'm not, I better. I hear better either quit. If I don't want to do it anymore. Like that's why I stopped fighting.

2:22:06There was no money in fighting when I was fighting. There was no money. There was no UFC. And I was just getting brain damage for no reason. I was sparring and I'm fucking headaches every night. I was like, what am I doing in my life? And then I would also meet guys in the gym that were punch drunk. And those guys scared the shit out of me. It's back then everybody was stupid too. And like, and you know, this is 1989. Everybody was stupid. They just beat the fuck out of each other. They didn't. There was no like sparring, you know, like technical sparring. It was just wars. It was just fights.

2:22:37Always fights. Got you. And there was no future. And I still like that in some gyms. Yeah, a lot of gyms. A lot of gyms. You know, some gyms are intelligent, but there's a lot of gyms that are stupid. I don't use to spar at all. Really? Yeah, I don't spar. Only in training camps. But I see you spar in training camps. So it's only in training camps. Only in training camps. So when you're not in camp, what do you do? I do like, as I told you, sparring is maybe in boxing. But before I used to go like more crazy than now. Because before I had like more ego, I had I wanted to pro myself like I can knock you out.

2:23:16I can submit you. I can do this. But once like you you you winning fights, you're growing as a person, you're like, I don't need to prove anything here in the gym. I know what I'm able to do in the competition is the day when I have to fight the fight. That's the day when I'm when I'm get paid. And that's it. I'm not gonna gonna damage anyone. No more because sometimes you knock people out and then you go back home and you feel bad. You're like, I could not do it. Right. And he's suffering right now. I send so much people to the hospital. So much people to the hospital. I'm sure I've seen a few videos.

2:24:00I've seen a few videos. I've opened so much damage that right now I'm like, no, no, no, no. Sometimes people comes to me like, let's part. I'm like, I recommend you to know. I recommend you to not. Yeah, that's good advice. Yeah. It's interesting, right? It's like your ego can help you because your ego is what makes you want to be great. But at a certain point in time, you got to put a leash on it. Yeah, you got to say not not right now, motherfucker. Not right now. You go when I say, second, then I'm gonna let you off that leash. But not right now. And like that's Marcelo Garcia always just say that about your Jiu -Jitsu.

2:24:41That you have to open up your game in the gym. And don't be afraid of it being tapped. He goes, you got to be open. You got to take chances in the gym and learn and put yourself in bad positions on purpose. And you might lose training sessions, but that's not what's important. What's important is growing. I see a lot of guys struggling with that. They don't want to lose in training. Well, a lot of guys never develop a guard because they never want to be on their back. There's a lot of guys like that. They have no fucking guard. No fucking guard. Which is crazy. It's crazy. There's black belts out there that they get them on their back.

2:25:14They look like a turtle because they don't want to lose. Exactly. They don't have to lose. If you tap out, no problem. You get better. Like, how I don't put myself in this position. But that's the fascinating dance of the mind that allows someone to become a champion versus someone to become just a good fighter. Whether you can figure that out, like when to put your ego on a leash and when to be able to look at yourself objectively. Like what you're doing with separating all of your disciplines, I think it's very important. I think that's a very interesting way that you put it because I think it's a very intelligent way to approach it.

2:25:53Like get very good at your boxing. Get very good at your more time. Get very good at your judo. But do it separately. Like every week, every Sunday, I sit down and I do my schedule. I am myself. On Monday, I'm going to do boxing a day from this hour to this. Then I'm going to do afternoon. How do you decide what you're going to do? It depends of how I feel. What I want to do. What do you want to work on? What I want to work on. And what I feel like I have to develop something. What I want to do. What do I feel in reality? It's not like all the time. I'm going to do this because I have to do it.

2:26:35No, I don't have to do anything. I choose to do it because I enjoy it. Every time I go to training, I enjoy it. I don't do it because I feel forced. Sometimes in training camp, yes, I feel forced because I feel tired. I don't have fully my body. I don't have any energy. And I have to do it because I'm forced. But outside the training camp, I enjoy it. Even if I retire tomorrow, I would keep training like that. Because that's something that I enjoy. You said something very interesting before that. Right now, I'm in the moment of my life where everything I do, I do it because I enjoy it. I don't do anything to make anyone happy.

2:27:17I don't leave a life dreaming to have another one. I just enjoy the moments I'm living right now. That's so important. That is so important. It's so important to be satisfied with your life. It's so important to just live in the moment. It's so hard for people to do. It's so hard for people to do. Especially if you fucked off too many times. You just made too many mistakes and slacked off and lazy. That's the best moment we have right now. Right now. This is the best moment. It's just who we are. Yeah, it is. No one knows what's going to happen tomorrow. And it was really important hearing a guy like you say this.

2:27:58Hearing a guy like you say this to young people out there that are listening. They're just not sure. Like how to approach life. Because the way you think about life and the way you decide to approach life, can change the whole direction of your future. 100 % and so a young guy is probably listening. Guaranteed, there are people. Not just one. Many young people are listening to you talk right now. I'm sure that many people come to you like, Joe, tell me the secret. There are no secrets. There's not bottom for the elevator. Exactly. Everything in life you get stabbed by a step. The slowest the fastest way to get is where you want to be.

2:28:38I was talking to David Goggins about that. You know David Goggins is? Yeah, of course. Fuck the maniac. David Goggins said, there's no finish line. He's like, it never ends. Like it never ends. Never ends. You never make it. You ever feel like you make it? I'm like, you never make it. There's no making it. It's bullshit. One day you don't think about it anymore. And you just every day you're just trying to get better. Of course. And if you don't feel like that, it's not fun. If you're not really trying to do something difficult and aspire to greatness and just trying to do your best all the time, you don't have satisfaction in your life.

2:29:15100%. And everything. Some people think that like you accomplish something and that's going to make you happy. That's a bullshit. Well, you know, I think also there's the poison of social media. Because social media poisons people to think that one day I'm going to make it. I'm going to be like, Conor McGregor driving my yacht around. Like those videos are so bad for you. Those videos of people like, look at me, look at my watch, look at my diamonds, look at this, look at my house, look at these girls. Don't you wish for me? Everyone's showing you the best part of their life. No one is going to show you how they are struggling, the problems they are facing and the daily base.

2:29:56I mean, like no one's going to show you that. No one's going to show you. Look, I have a pimple here in my face. No, I'm going to use a filter to hide that. Yeah, it's not good. It's not good for young people. That's for sure because they aspire to all the wrong things. Yes, young people today, whether they want, most of them just want to be famous. They want to be famous and they think that money makes them rich. And you skills make you rich. Not the money. If you don't have the skills and you don't have the mindset, you're going to keep poor all the time. Not only that, you're not going to have the satisfaction of knowing you got really good at something.

2:30:32No one. There's something about getting really good at something that gives you a deep satisfaction that's not available anywhere else. If you just win the lottery, those are the most depressed people in the world. They all go broke. They win the lottery and then everybody wants money from them and then they feel empty and hollow and they don't know what to do with themselves. And now they don't have any goals because they have a $100 million in the bank. They don't know what to fuck to do. Yeah, but they don't have any ability. They don't have nothing to enjoy with you. I say that success comes from not worrying about money.

2:31:03Success doesn't come from making a lot of money. Success comes from now I have to think about that. Money is not the thing. Now I think about what am I doing? What am I doing? I want to be the best parent I can be. I want to be the best friend that I can be. I want to be everything I do. I want to do it to the best of my abilities. I have become the best person you could be. Yeah, the best person you could be. That's that's. When I was a kid, my martial arts instructor told me this that I'll never forget and I say it all the time, martial arts are a vehicle for developing your human potential.

2:31:33Through that struggle, through that difficult thing, you will learn how to be better at everything. 100%. 100%. That's 100%. That's what I think life is about. And that's why martial arts are so exciting to me. You know, people think, oh, you like violence. They're like, that's not it. That's why I don't like slap fighting. I think it's stupid. You stand in front of each other, smack each other in the head. I want to see a guy enter into a cage fully prepared with skills against another guy, fully prepared with skills. I always describe martial arts, mixed martial arts in particular as high level problem solving with dire physical consequences.

2:32:12That's what it is. It's problem solving with dire physical consequences. That's so cool. Yeah, that's what it is. People, most of them, they didn't understand what's behind a fighting game. It's not like only violence. You have to prepare yourself. You have to be smart. You have to be, you have to work smart, smarter than the other guy you're going to face. There's so much factors that it's going to play out that day. It's so much sacrifices that someone has to make before getting inside that octagon. It's not only fighting. It's more than that. I love that. Most of the people before they used to see fighting as something very violent in Spain.

2:33:04They hate it. Right now, it's becoming bigger and bigger and bigger and they're starting to love that. I saw that since the day I started because I used to say to people like, 10 years ago in Spain, what you doing? I'm fighting. Don't do that. Start learning something. Start starting. I'm starting. Everyone choose a career in his life. Someone wants to be a doctor. Someone wants to be a construction. Someone wants to bidet. So that, I want to be a fighter. And I have to learn to be a fighter also. But by your example, by being a true champion and by living the way you live and by performing the way you perform, you will change people's opinions and they will see it and they will say, oh, this is different.

2:33:53This is not what I thought it was. This is something special. Yeah. For sure, brother. For sure. Man. It's in the cards. Well, listen, my friend. Thank you very much for being here. I appreciate you very much. I'm a big fan and I can't wait to see you inside of the octagon again and all the best. Ciao. Thank you very much, brother. It's been a big pleasure for me. Thank you very much. All right. Bye, everybody.

2:34:30Let's enter into a cage fully prepared with skills against another guy fully prepared with skills. I always describe martial arts, mixed martial arts in particular, high level problem solving with dire physical consequences. That's what it is. It's problem solving with dire physical consequences. That's so cool. Yeah. That's what it is. The people, most of them, they didn't understand what's behind a fighting game. It's not like only violence. You have to prepare yourself. You have to be smart. You have to be smart. You have to work smarter than the other guy you're going to face. There's so much factors that it's going to play out that day.

2:35:16So much sacrifices that someone has to make before getting inside that octagon. It's not only fighting. It's more than that. I don't know. I love that. Yeah. Most of the people before they used to see fighting as something very violent in Spain. They hate it. Right now, it's becoming bigger and bigger and bigger and they're starting to love that. And I saw that since the day I started because I used to say to the people like, 10 years ago in Spain, what you doing? I'm fighting. Don't do that. Start learning something. Start starting. I'm like, I'm starting. Everyone choose a career in his life.

2:36:03Someone wants to be a doctor. Someone wants to be a construction. Someone wants to be this or that. I want to be a fighter. Yeah. And I have to learn to be a fighter also. But by your example, by being a true champion and by living the way you live and by performing the way you perform, you will change people's opinions. And they will see it and they will say, this is different. This is not what I thought it was. This is something special. Yeah. For sure, brother. For sure. Man. It's in the cards. Well, listen, my friend. Thank you very much for being here. I appreciate you very much. I'm a big fan.

2:36:40And I can't wait to see you inside of the Octagon again. And all the best. Charles, thank you very much. My name is Benav. Big pleasure for me. Thank you very much. All right. Bye, everybody.