JRE MMA Show #170 with Michael "Venom" Page

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37:04For one, I'm always saying for my experiences with him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But as a fighter, just make it happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Keep him around. You got a gem. That's more important. It's an extraordinary gem. And you want to talk about sellability. You want to talk about marketability. What's more marketable than a giant man who destroys everyone? He's the guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So true. Drove me nuts. I know. Drove me nuts. I think everybody. And I think that's added to people's frustrations with the Tom Aspinall fight not happening then after as well. Well, that was not on the UFC's side or on Tom's side.

37:41That was all John. Look, John's a wizard. He knows how to play all games. and one of the games he plays, I'm retiring. No, I'm back. Oh, now I'm hunting after you. What? It doesn't matter for him. He's going to get the same amount of money. He's still Jon Jones. Like, it's all mindfuckering. Like, keep you guessing. And meanwhile, Jon's deadlifting every day. You know what I mean? And partying. He's just so wild. But it's like, that fight would have been amazing to see. But to me, So that means it probably can still happen, no? I hope so. I genuinely hope so. You know they were talking about doing it at the White House?

38:14Yeah, yeah. And Dana said that. Dana's like, I can't trust John to show up and be fine. Which is fair. Which is fair. So you've got to say, there's been a few times that things went awry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair enough. However. It would be great. Do it on a card where you have 12 other fights. That's what I say. Who gives a fuck? Let's see if it happens. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. That's true. I would be like, let's go crazy. Let's fucking go all in. I guess what would happen is that fight overshadows many fights. Uh-huh. So if it doesn't happen, even though the fights are amazing still, people are like, ah.

38:46It does, but so what? Yeah. I mean, you know, you get, I don't know who you would do. Ilio Teporia versus Justin Gaethje or something like that. Something crazy like that. You'd have a few other fights. It depends on what happens this weekend with Pereira and Akhlaev. It depends on what happens with Murab and Corey Sanhagen. Yeah. Those are two very complicated fights. Beast. Yeah, very good fights. Murab is a beast, man. Beast. He's such a beast. Dude, he was talking to, I forgot who he was talking to. He did an interview. Oh, he was on Mighty Mouse's podcast. No sauna, no cold plunge, no stretching.

39:19Doesn't do any of that. Doesn't do any of that. Just no warm up. Shows up. I just show up, start to train. Just shows up and fucking hits the gas. He stays up till one, two o 'clock in the morning. Just. Just like his whole routine is totally contrary to everything that you've heard before. and this is how he weight cuts. I stop eating. He just stops eating. He stops eating on Tuesday.

39:48He just stops eating, stops drinking water, keeps working out. The man's mind is a giant factor that I think a lot of people are looking at his cardio, which is an insane weapon. Of course, yeah, yeah. But the man's mind, the toughness, the mental toughness, that is Fort Knox. You ain't getting in there. You ain't getting in there. Remember that time Who was he? He was mounted. I forget who got him. But he got him in a mounted guillotine, and he didn't. I think it might have been Ricky Simone. Or somebody else had him, and he got out, and then he won the fight. But he was being choked unconscious for, like, two minutes.

40:23Yeah, yeah. And he's like, yeah. And he's, like, kicking his legs and moving around. He's like, there's no quitting that guy. Fucking zero quit. You have to put him out. Zero quit. In the Marlon Marais fight, he was basically out on his feet in the first round. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he just came back and stopped him. He's a monster. He's a beast. He's a beast. And he keeps getting better. Yeah I mean what a guy you know, you feel like all guy like that is so good. Look how good he is He's better than everybody. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, he's still getting better. Yeah He's not done. Yeah, yeah, he's a project He's like what can the human mind force the human body to do and how young is he now?

40:57He's like 34 I believe so which is in that lightweight class. Yeah, it's a little bit more of a problem in the heavier weight classes but I don't see any slope. Like you said, his mind is... His mind is a fucking steel trap. But it's funny you say that because I don't really have structure either. So like I said, the weight cut I do, but that's because I came in with no understanding of weight cut and London Street was like, you do this. You look so big for 170. How the fuck did you do that? How much are you cutting when you went to 170? So even like now, I'm massive now. Yeah, you look like, let me guess, 220?

41:30What do you weigh right now? Yeah, about 2.15. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because I was going to do it in KG, so yeah. Right, okay. But yeah, yeah, yeah. We never adopted it. I know. So stupid. It's a way better system. But yeah, it's... But I've never struggled to get down, though. Because again, I was just told... I guess it's ignorance as well, but I was just told to do these things. And it's like, okay, you do it. What is it? When you start, like say you get a call from the UFC... Six to eight weeks out. Okay. So you're not going to accept any two-week fights? No. Well, it depends on the fight. I'm always training.

42:07But middleweight, maybe you would. Middleweight, yeah. You have taken some short-notice fights. Yeah, for middleweight, which was the first one or the second one I did. The last fight, maybe. But I would take short-notice fights depending on where I am. In training. In training. But I just like to have a rough idea. even right now it's like trying to get and I'm like I'm bugging people because I've come from a circuit where we fight weekends every weekend we're somewhere it keeps you sharp yeah and then this is probably the most frustrating thing for me obviously starting in Bellator and you're training all the time and then you have a fight and then you're training and I'm just like and a lot of my fights I don't take too much damage so I'm like I'm ready now like give me a week off and I can come back and then it's months and months.

42:57I'm like, who am I fighting? Who's this? The problem is you're a hard sell. Yeah. You know, when people get a call. Yeah. It's a flat-footed dude. You're like, shit! I'm going to have to learn how to dance in six weeks. Fuck! And that's the thing. So I'm here, and I assumed wrongly that when I get to the UFC, that is going to disperse. Everyone's going to be gunning for me. Like, yeah, I'm going to show everybody that this guy is a can. He only fought people that weren't his level. It's still the same. I think, and obviously the more I fight, the less people are putting their hands up. I think even Whittaker said, which I respect to be fair, he came out, I don't even know, wait, somebody sent me something, but he had said like, yeah, I wouldn't be interested in making that fight.

43:42Yeah. At this point in his career, that's just a setback waiting to happen. Yeah, it's not. And his style is very similar. Exactly, yeah. I'm a massive fan of his as well. I love his, obviously he can tie in the wrestling way better and just yeah i i love his style i do too no and and you've got to realize like that guy he's take he's been in it for a long time he had two fucking wars with yoel romero yeah when yoel romero was made out of metal yeah yeah that guy's he's still fighting still yeah 48 years old fucking people up looking like he's 30 i'd swap in a second. Who wouldn't do that? Bro, when he was in here, he came into the studio.

44:24It was the most amazing thing because Joey Diaz translated for him. So it was him and Joey Diaz going back and forth. And Joey's Cuban as well, of course. And so when he was here, he had to be 230 pounds. His neck starts at the top of his ears. And one of the things that he said, man, he was talking about the Cuban system. He goes, you have to be on my jeans. because he was talking about the system of like you get more food if you're at a higher caliber of athlete so the just to get more food he's like athletes yeah man the athletes that are the lower caliber they eat twice a day yeah in his caliber he's eaten three times a day he's like so every day every day they're coming for you you have to be on my chin and I was like oh my god and he had to look in his eyes man that motherfucker is fierce we are soft in the west bro we're so soft in the west I'm not a fan of communism I don't believe in it but damn it creates a fucking beast Alexander Karelin I mean I don't know if you get there's two things you don't get that with there's like substances for sure taking place and then there's also a regiment that they have both the Cuban system and the Russian system where they had figured out the balance between unbelievable hard work but technical ability and recovery.

45:48They didn't go meathead style. In America, we went meathead style and we burnt a lot of dudes out, but the dudes who survived were just the killers of the killers. But they probably could have made more killers like the Russians did if they did it more technically. It's the same. So, again, shoots, they've been, again, They were the first MMA gym in the UK. I think in, like, 95, 97, 95. Yeah, I got a London Shoe Fighters t-shirt from 2003. Yeah, crazy. I couldn't find it. I was looking forward to that. Crazy. So, like I said, they've been around. Yeah, Mariusz. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to tell him.

46:20I'm going to tell him. They've been around a long time, and obviously they've fought with every, I think they've fought with every major competition that's ever been out. They've done boxing with the likes of, like, David Hay, Derek Chisora now. even Dylan White did a kickboxing fight with them you know myself Lee Murray John Hathaway even like Carlos Romola was the first Czech guy before Yuri to be in the UFC that was them guys they'd done a lot but they're the meathead style yeah they are like yeah everybody will anything to produce Lee Murray yeah yeah yeah you know you got that guy in your gym it's a problem just the echoes of that guy's style will permeate through that gym for decades.

47:06That guy's just an angry man. He was an angry man. But at the same time you needed somebody like, because my coaches are beasts, like you needed that kind of militant force to be able to manage that and cope with that. And that's what my coaches, they are. People used to come to our gym and we're just like, yeah, who's ready? And if you don't do it, I'll do it myself. That's one thing I always respected about them even with the machines that the fitness machines that we had to do the scores are crazy like i'm i'll see people in other gyms posting their scores i'm like is that it and they're celebrating it and i'm like we're forced to do this how is that but he'd push you but he'd also do it himself like he'd jump on the machine like that's a clamor yeah smoke it fight like five five back to back and then running and this and that like and we're doing we have to do all of because he's doing it and he's not doing he hasn't got a fight that's the way you lead yeah and he especially with killers exactly yeah that's the problem they demand respect right and they have to know that you're real exactly yeah otherwise you're just some pontificator on the sidelines with a fucking clipboard fuck off bitch which is more nowadays like i'm seeing a lot of like uh and to be fair i'm a fan of a lot of these guys like the fighting nerds and again i'm hearing that they had a i forget like a data analyst or something that's in and he does like this you know he studies this and i think that's cool like i feel like we we should have like add elements of these things as well but obviously i've just grown up by this iron shops iron it does it's undeniable iron sharpens iron yeah yeah you know there's outliers there's a guy who will come out of a gym with nobody and he's a monster there's just a few of those guys that exist in the world but But for the most part, like if you look at a gym like American Top Team, for example, look at how many animals have come out of that gym.

48:55So many. Pantoja, who I think does not get the credit he deserves. I think Pantoja is one of the greatest ever. Fucking guy's a monster. When that Japanese cat came over from Ryzen and he just like ragdolled them. Like he had no business. And then the Kaikawa France rematch, like you see the difference between when they first fought and now the difference between like a dominant all-time world champion yeah yeah people like when he's on a card like people don't freak out i'm like god damn it just because he's 125 pounds get that shit out of your head you're watching one of the greatest ever but that's the thing that's it's the marketability of people this is what i knew i had to get right as well yes and a lot of i say that to my teammates as well i'm like do you know how you're gonna market yourself and then I just, you know, if I beat people up, it's like, it doesn't always just, unfortunately it should, but it doesn't, that's not what's gonna get you.

49:51If I have to, as a promotion owner and the person managing everything, I'm either gonna pick you that's beating everybody but nobody cares about, or this guy that's, you know, pretty decent, but everyone's making noise about, gonna pick that guy. So you need to be able to market yourself. And I knew that from the jump, and this is before really social media was massive, massive. is a thing but I said to myself okay I need to look in how am I gonna market myself because we don't have that much time like on the mic the interviews at the time I don't feel like people got the recognition people just cared about the fight they just wanted to watch the fight didn't care what you said beforehand unless you're arguing or shouting you know there's beef unless you grab that mic and go crazy yeah you gotta go crazy Chael Sonnen was the first guy to figure that out he figured it out before anybody.

50:43Anderson Silva, you absolutely suck. He's the best fighter of pound for pound in the world. But he's still good. This is why he's on the mic now. Yes, but it was perfect. It was perfect. But there was balance with that. He's the king. For me, there was perfect balance. Like, it wasn't too far. It was exactly what you wanted. Right. Exactly what you need to market a fight and to promote himself. Yes. Yes, I agree with you. But, again, it's weird, though, because I think authenticity is important when you do that as well, though. And Conor McGregor kind of is the next person for me that's kind of delivered that.

51:18Oh, 100%. He took it to a whole nother level. A whole nother level. Every time this guy's on a mic, he'll say one line and I'm like, T-shirts, easy, T-shirts. How about when Jeremy Stevens is yelling at him and he goes, who the fuck is that guy?

51:33You can't beat this guy. I'm just like, why did you even open your mouth, bro? It's so funny, man. It's so funny. And you need to be able to do that. Before I even had my first fight, I spent hours. I was a big WWE fan. And I felt like The Rock, you know, Dwayne Johnson, out of all of them, was the best at marketing himself. He had the crowd in the palm of his hands. Every word that he said. And it was simple sayings. And I was like, yeah, I studied this, studied this. I was like, okay. and even like his stances he'd come up like jump on the ropes and put his hand up and just stand there look around you know what I mean like he just he just demanded eyes so again I just came to okay what could I do so I was like okay you know venom snake related to a snake okay I was like okay yeah let me let me do this okay okay okay that's check I've got a stance that I can do okay I need a saying okay like what can I say because again I used to listen to people on after fights and I didn't hear anything they said.

52:39They're like, yeah, I'm going to beat that guy. And I'm like, thank you for my sponsors.

52:48Who? Who were your sponsors? Didn't hear anything. So I'm like, it has to be like concise. I have to say specific words and just, I write this stuff down. But again, I speak to my team. It's like, bro, what are you guys doing? You need to do this kind of stuff and understand that this is a part of your game. You've got five seconds after the fight on the mic. If that. What are you going to say? What message is going to land? What is going to make you memorable? And I do things on my walk-ins as well. I need people to remember. They're watching 16 fights on the night. Why do they remember me? Yes, my style is exciting.

53:22That's cool. There's this weird guy. He does some weird stuff with his arms and he's quite cool. But they're not going to remember my name. I need other things to keep them coming back. Oh, there's this guy in the way and he stood above this guy. He put his snake hand up. and then, oh, that's the same guy that did the dance because now you're getting it from different places. That's the guy that threw the pokeball. Oh, what's his name? What's his name? The more times you keep hitting them with different things, the more times they're more likely kind of really buy into you. I think this is why I was able to create a big enough brand before even touching the UFC just because I paid attention to that kind of thing.

53:58You were one of the first guys to make a name for yourself in Bellator because Bellator, it was hard to break out. There were some wild fights in Bellator that never got recognized. At all, yeah. How about the Eddie Alvarez, Michael Chandler fight? Fucking crazy fights. And I feel like those guys left a lot of who they are there. Been there, yeah, unfortunately. We got them kind of after them. And Chandler's still remarkably durable, but that's just a discipline thing and a hard work thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he's just accustomed to, like you said, he's trained a certain way his whole life.

54:30He's always going to have that kind of athleticism. But he's, you know, 38 now. I mean, it's like you can only – I wished he had not been in Bellator. Look, I'm all for competition. I think competition is important. I don't think there should be a monopoly in the MMA business. I think it's bad for the athletes. Yeah, definitely. I love the fact that PFL overpays people. Keep doing it. I like it. Give them a million dollars. Everybody. Get a million dollars. Everybody gets a car. You get a car. I wish there was more organizations. I hope One FC succeeds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It does help. That helped me as well, even in my negotiation.

55:04Fucking everything. However, there's a caliber of athlete that I feel like should only be in the UFC. And you're one of those guys. Thank you. I appreciate that. There's a caliber of athlete where like, I want to see how good they really are. You know, like some guy, like Patchy Mitch. Patchy Mitch is a beast. He's a bad motherfucker. But so is Mario Bautista. Mario Bautista had the perfect game plan to fuck up his party. But that dude, when he was in Bellator, was of that caliber. I was like, I want to see him over here, man. I personally, and obviously because I've experienced it, for me, the first time I got nervous in an MMA fight was my first fight.

55:47In the UFC? No, my first fight ever. And then after that, I was like, oh, yeah, this is the same as when I was fighting in the kickboxing. I'm cool. I didn't have any I didn't get the nerves again the first time again since then was the first no sorry weird enough the second fight in the UFC against Ian Gary now the first fight I don't know why I just I don't know what it was but I was quite relaxed and then the second fight I was like oh it's something a reality hit me of like oh you're in the UFC the people are going to demand a certain thing from you and you've got a reputation of before of the knockouts of the celebrations of the walk-ins of the this of the that and then I just let that put weight on me.

56:29Really? Yeah, yeah. That's crazy that it was the second fight. I can't even explain as to why it was the second fight and not the first one. And then even the third fight, I still had that kind of, oh man, I'm not performing the way I want and I felt like I'm eager to impress. And I never felt like that in Bellator. But at the UFC, I'm like, I'm trying my best. I literally had to sit. Yeah, it's weird. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. Same thing. Cage, cameras, people. Same thing. Same thing. But I just, the magnitude of it, I don't know. I'm guessing. It's what we all grew up with. It's what everyone grows up with.

57:09It's like, this is where, like I said, there was always question marks around my name. I was jump knees and this and that. Always question marks around my name still. But then now I'm here. It's like, oh, actually, I can, these guys can respect me now. actually respect me now because I'm here. Yes. And then I was just trying too hard, trying too hard, trying too hard. The last fight was the first time I was like, You're back. I'm back. And this is why I was like, just keep getting me back in the cage because I swear to you, I'm back to where I used to be and how I used to feel. It's just an issue of getting guys that are willing to fight you that are of a certain caliber.

57:47Exactly. Because, you know, obviously right now you're pretty big. So for you to get down to 170 again would be a real problem. Are you committed to 185? or are you open either one? I want 170. I can see a clear pathway. Even after my last fight, I messaged Hunter and I literally like, look, oh, let me fight. It was Morales. Yeah. And I was like, look, another undefeated guy. Perfect fight. Like he's a beast. Like I'm ready. Let me take him. Then, and I said, what I could do after that is in like December, I think I said, or no, March next year. I was like, yeah, give me that for November. but I'm like, March next year, usually come back to the UK, let me fight the winner of Leon Edwards and Pratas.

58:32I was like, another great fight there. Yeah. And then you've got July card. Obviously, everyone's going to put their hand up to be on that. But I said, if you guys want me to be on that, again, I'll fight for whoever you want in that top range. Pick, I don't care who it is. Pick somebody, I'll fight them and then I want a title shot. Or you give me the title there. Like, yeah. But I'm like, I can see a clear path to what I want. And it's just, everything seems slow, which I did, like I said, I didn't expect coming to the UFC. I think there's just too many athletes. There is a lot. I think they have on contract more than 500.

59:14Damn. How many athletes does the UFC have under contract? throw that into but then also there there I think and obviously I'm managed by Paradigm with audi and he said he feels like uh the paramount deal is they having to integrate that now as well and i'm like i didn't think about that but every time bellator because bellator kept getting new partnerships it did slow things down a little bit oh yeah that would make sense so yeah that doesn't start until january but obviously they're sorting out contracts and things from now and then they have to try and align the shows and i'm guessing obviously i don't know but i'm just saying it just feels even slower than before and i'm like that sucks yeah yeah and i'm like i just want to be back out there i don't care just and this is why i'm happy to take 674 wow 674 fighters under contract and they don't have fights every week they have fights almost every week but not every week that i mean just think about that so you have 52 weeks you have all these fighters fighters want to fight multiple times a year i appreciate that but i'm mvp man let's go i am with you i'm with you i always say that i wish i was a matchmaker but i don't yeah it's the hardest job yeah i'm sure yeah i just talked to joe silva back in the day when he did it he fucking hated it dealing with everybody and managers and and people flake out yeah yeah fail drug tests like god damn it and these guys you know what what they're doing right now is very difficult because what Mick Maynard and Sean Shelby are dealing with is the volume is so much greater.

1:00:52Yeah. And there's so many more really good guys. Like in almost every division, like guys are coming in from the Contender Series. That guy looks like a world championship caliber fighter. Talented. Talent's off the charts right now. And it's because they get to watch. Yeah. You know, these are the kids that are growing up watching Anderson Silva. They're growing up watching Jon Jones' first fight. They're growing up watching the early Chuck Liddell fights. It's totally different. When they're play fighting with their friends, they're in stances that look right. They know what they're doing. And they know the names of every submission and this.

1:01:27It's so true. They're calf kicking each other in the fucking schoolyard. It's a totally different world. Very true. And those kids are going to grow up and that's going to be integrated into their neuromuscular system. Yeah. Yeah, and they're going to learn. There's guys coming along that are like elite black belt level jiu-jitsu, elite stand-up, elite wrestling, takedown defense, cardio off the charts. And they're 22. And you're like, this is nuts. Now it's just about whether you can compete, whether you can pull it off and keep your head together on fighting days. Which is, again, I think is something that people don't speak about enough.

1:02:02Listen, Aaron Pico is as talented as they come, right? That dude is a fucking vicious boxer, incredible wrestling, gold chip prospect. But Lerone Murphy is another guy. I was saying before that, this is the guy that's not getting the credit he deserves. Because you've got all these loud killers at 145. But you've got this one dude that does everything perfect. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's beating everybody. He's beating everything. Etching away. And he doesn't take damage. And he's clever. And he's slick. And he does things. And every technique is perfect. He doesn't and there's no fat on anything wild winging punches Everything's tight and tell that spinning elbow was a work of art.

1:02:45He just knew Aaron Pico's a train That was a crazy But that's the difference between someone who can compete at the highest level Yeah, yeah, yeah, and he's accustomed to it, right? Yeah, yeah It's the knowing when to hit the gas and when not Pico's just all gas no brakes. Yeah, go on. What is it? Like you said, it's like similar to Michael Chandler again. Yes Just like in that rage mode all the time. All gas, no brakes. You need to take your time. But that's a wrestler thing, too. They always want to break people. Because in wrestling, you can do that. You can have that mentality where you're constantly getting the gas because you're not going to get knocked out with a flying knee.

1:03:18Yeah, true. True, true. Changes. Yeah, because you get that. That's how you compete. You get this mindset of I'm going to fucking dominate. I know what I did in training for this. My gas tank's off the charts. My aggression's off the charts. I'm a killer. I'm going to dominate. I'm moving forward. I'm moving forward. The problem was with a guy like Lerone, it's like, you think he's backing up. Bam, he's coming forward. Oh, the timing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The timing. It was just like, oh. But Pico even stepped right into the elbow. It was ruthless. It made it 10 times worse. Ruthless. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:03:52That's my thing. The car crash effect when you create those collision moments. So for a guy like Lerone, who's not a big marketing guy, not a big, like, it doesn't say wild shit on the microphone. just steady professional does his job he needs to do that right he needs like this spectacular thing where all of a sudden everybody goes he needs to fight Alexander Volkanovsky and that looks like that's what's gonna happen now because of that one performance which is I'm so happy for him me too he's a cool guy man I'm so happy for him but this is why I tell people if he had just a little bit a little bit of chat a little bit of show your personality or something just give me something else you have that no but you know what it is I always say like everyone One, like, Demetrius Johnson, for me, is one of the greatest.

1:04:37Of all time. All time. Of all time. Another underappreciated guy because he's too small. Because of his size, yeah. Yeah. But I feel like underappreciated because you can't market him in the exact same ways you'd market, like, a Conor McGregor or somebody else like that. But he's a gamer. I'm like, shed a light on. There's a massive, massive community of gaming. That industry is billion dollars deep. Market this guy because he goes back home and he's just like. Yeah, he's one of them. He's one of those guys. But again, we didn't see. I don't feel like we saw any of that until afterwards when he was kind of like doing his own thing.

1:05:13Now obviously doing a lot of his YouTube time. I'm so happy that he's getting the recognition. It was kind of when he went to one that he started doing more of the game and stuff online. No, he had been doing it though. He had been doing it at the UFC as well? Yeah, but again, it's just more, I guess. They didn't capitalize. Yeah, that's what I mean. Certain people, you have to, like, what is your thing? Not everybody is just the fighting. They have things to kind of release, wind down and, you know what I mean? Yeah. Find that out. He's killing everybody anyway, so how else can we market? Instead of being like, ah, can't market him the same.

1:05:44He doesn't talk, he doesn't say anything. There must be something there. There has to be something else there we could look into. Well, it's interesting because some guys, their personality is no personality. Like Pereira. Yeah, yeah, yeah. His personality is stone face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just stone face, destroyer, death machine. Here he comes, Amazon warrior. Like literal, actual Amazon warrior. Yeah. Like not a faker. His fucking family comes from a tribe in the Amazon. But then that's what he markets though. Yeah. I guess that's what they market. But it was because of - No, but he markets that as well.

1:06:17He markets it. That walkout. Oh, yeah. That's true. Bro, I do it myself. When he's walking out, I'm just waiting for him. I'm like, ah! That's true. And that's what I mean, though. I mean, like, that's... You're selling your story with just something so simple. That's actually a very good point that I didn't even think of. Yeah. His walkout. His walkout. His walkout's maybe the best in the sport. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I'm trying to say. And that music. Yeah. Jungle music behind him. And you just... You just walk. Just this Amazon warrior. It's simple. Everyone can relate to it. Oh, yeah.

1:06:50It's consistent. So I'm always going to... Oh, that's the guy. And you see kids in the audience throw the one-two. Yeah. They do it. Yeah, they do it. And like I said, because I'm a big wrestling fan, I see it's those moments that everybody will remember and everybody will do. Right, like when Stylebender came in to The Undertaker. Oh, beast. But that's what I'm trying to say. It's those kind of things that people just don't. Yeah. And I'm talking the fighters themselves. Obviously, I feel the UFC can do their bit as well, but technically you're already on the platform that's going to show you to everybody.

1:07:20So then it's your job to figure it out as well. Another aspect of the game. Yeah. Like strength and conditioning. like all these different things. Exactly. Just think about it. You're a professional. Figure out how to market yourself. You are the product. The problem is though it does lead to like cringe moments for some kind. So it's not everybody it's your personality. And some guys try and it's like yikes. Shit. You gotta take a risk. You gotta take the risk. If it goes well it goes well. Yeah. It goes well. So like as you said about Alex Perot technically we wouldn't care if he walked out of that and got knocked out We wouldn't give a shit.

1:07:56Yeah. But he's a killer. Yeah. That fight this weekend is very, very interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, so here's the downside to fighting all the time. Fighting all the time with your style is a very different thing because you take so little damage, which is another huge element. Like, I kind of would tell people that if you have a kid and your kid wants to learn martial arts and they want to eventually be an MMA fighter, I would say two things. Number one, wrestling. Take that kid and teach him how to wrestle because if you could just develop takedown defense an understanding of grappling At least you have a base from the time.

1:08:31You're real little exactly that should be your base Yeah, because it's the most important aspect of the fight If you can't grapple yeah, a guy can take you down and you can hold you down. You can't do shit about it Number two learn how to point fight. Yeah, yeah Learn how to point fight learn distance control. There's a different thing that you guys are doing if you got like people think of Billy Blanks is Taibo. You gotta go back and watch Billy Blanks when he was a fucking karate wizard dude. Yes, exactly. He was a wizard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was hitting people where you couldn't hit him.

1:08:58Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, all the old school guys were all like light on the feet, bladed style, and they had this leap in ability that if you're used to a guy standing in front of, it's a giant problem, and you don't have the timing to solve it. Yeah, yeah. You could go two, three rounds deep before you start actually landing anything. Yeah, exactly. You can't do anything to them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a giant problem. And I would say you want to be the person giving the other person that problem. Then you can learn all the other stuff, too. Learn your boxing fundamentals and Muay Thai and knees and elbows.

1:09:29But if they're nowhere near you and you can hit them, you can close that gap quick. You have a blitz. So, I mean, understanding that distance control. Yes. And also the feints, the stutter steps. Those things change the game. Yes. There's so much movement in that style of fighting that just gets lost when people are plodding and just keeping each other in the stomach and kicking the legs. But it's funny. People always used to go on about me and Wonderboy Thompson fighting. And I'd always say, it won't be as exciting as you think. For us, like me and him, there'll be moments where we're bouncing and faking and we'll laugh at each other because we saw what would have happened if one of us went.

1:10:08But the crowd's like, the fuck is going? Fight. The fuck are you guys doing? smiling at each other. Like, they don't get the fight that's going on. Right. In the moment. And I say, it's not as exciting. Two pluses don't always give you that plus. Not always. But you still want to see it. Of course, people always want to just... It's also like, fighting doesn't have to always be ultimate excitement. You have to... Like, that's why I say no stand-ups ever. When a guy takes a guy down, that person on the bottom does not want to be on the bottom. They want to be up. If they can't get up, tough shit.

1:10:43It's only five rounds. Every fight starts and ends up, which is a giant, giant advantage for a striker. Because otherwise they wouldn't be able to get themselves up. So none of that. It's got to be pure. It's got to be real. You can't have ways that a guy won only because the rules set it up for him to get to a better position. I agree. The only thing that I find slightly frustrating in that element is I don't mind the wrestling. I think the wrestling is a beautiful art. And is, like you said, one of the most important arts to dictate where you want the fight to go. But if you're taking me down, try to kill me.

1:11:24I agree. Try to finish the fight. Don't just take me down and just... I agree. I've had people grabbing my legs and looking at the clock. Here's the thing. If they're not good enough to kill you, right? What if they're good enough to take you down and hold you down, but then they just have to be real defensive afterwards? And they'll throw a little pity pat... I know. I know. that's the only element that I just but here's the thing they're not good enough to do more do you know what I'm saying like but you must be though maybe not uh uh maybe not maybe only good enough like you're so good and they're just good enough to hold you down but if they've reined up and started reined and then you fucking framed off you got to half guard you got back up to your feet all of a sudden we're dealing with this shit again fuck that but if you just stay on top and don't take any chances now you can't do shit yeah I agree I agree.

1:12:13It's boring as fuck. And for me, it's not even a boring element of it. Like, I still enjoy that aspect. If I was watching, I only enjoy that aspect because I know what I'm looking at now. Like, I'm like, oh, he's got, okay, he's grabbed his wrist there. Okay, I can see what he's trying to work to. Okay, no, he didn't get it. Okay, I'm still in the fight. Whereas some people, I guess the people, if you don't get into grappling, you're not going to know what's happening other than they're just lying there. So I get it for them. But for me still, it's just like the aim of this game is for me to beat you.

1:12:41and I mean like knock you out put you to sleep I'm trying to show you that I am the stronger man as a warrior and that's not by holding you right that's not by holding you down holding you down to get you to position to land his elbow and hold you down to get the position to land his part yeah but just to I completely agree however even though I'm a fan of yours if a wrestler who had that boring style took you down and held you down for three rounds and won a decision I'd be like damn He did it. Yeah, he did it because he can't do it any other way if he can't stand up with you He's gonna get fucked up and he can take you down anytime Why would he ever let you up and if losing position is dangerous?

1:13:23So like if you're very explosive and you're very good at grappling you're very good on the bottom You've gotten submissions off the bottom if a guy rains up and starts throwing shots But he feels like his base is gone and he just wants to clinch and hold on and maintain position And he maintains position with this kind of shit Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're on top and you're doing this kind of shit. Just little movements. He's still getting away with that. He's still doing that. Yeah, I agree. Because that might be his only pat right for you. But the thing is, he's not good enough. Yeah, yeah. Where then you have guys like Khabib.

1:13:54Khabib gets you down. You're getting fucked up. You're getting fucked up constantly. Everybody loves that. He's talking to you. He's creating that space by still pinning you. He's crushing your legs in between his legs. And he's fucking wailing on you. That I can appreciate all day every day. I can too, but some guys aren't good enough. They're still fighting. They're in there. They're not good enough. There's guys at a world-class level that are not going to be world champions, but they might be able to beat a guy who could be a world champion if they can do that thing. It sucks, but it's real.

1:14:28It's hard to class you as a world championship fighter then. Okay, well, let's talk about Hamzat then. Yeah, yeah. Kanzai Draco Stupu C is a perfect example of that. You got an elite grappler who dominated the fight with very little damage. When I dominated it to the point where you're in the worst position you could be in MMA. You're in a crucifix position. Over and over again. Every round. Over and over again. And you can't do shit about it. You let him just. You can't do shit about it. So do you think that he's worried about him exploding? Because in my head, I'm like, the fight ends if I elbow the shit out of you right now.

1:15:07I think he's worried about the chaos and Drick is getting back to his feet. And, you know, they wanted to just win. This is the whole thing. Because he came back to his corner, apparently. And this was told to me secondhand, but I'm pretty sure it's true. Yeah. By a reliable source. That he was saying, can I box now? I was like, no. Okay. No, you're not fucking boxing. His team was like, take him down. He can't. Look, if you got that clear of a dominance. That I still agree with, though. as the coach is saying, no, take him down. But I'm saying once you are in that position. Smash. Smash. Your whole thing is smash.

1:15:39Yeah. Smash the shit out. That's what the hell. I think they just wanted that win no matter what. You know, because it's such a big deal. Hamzat finally got a shot at the title. What is the clearest, most intelligent? You're betting a billion dollars on this fight. What's the best way to victory? Fucking just take him down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can take him down anytime you want to. Hold him down. Punch him a few times. Make sure you're in dominant positions so you're not going to get stood back up. If the referee starts talking to you and telling you, start throwing a little bit of this. Do a little bit of that.

1:16:11Fake a submission. Don't throw all your gas into it. Do whatever the fuck you got to do, but get that goddamn title. Fair. Right? And then there's going to be some guys that he can't do that to. And that's where things get interesting. Yeah, yeah. But who would you say that is, though? Because his wrestling style is just crazy. Yes, this so Brandon shop had been to his training camp. Okay, and he called me up because he goes bro We got to talk because I just got back watching Hamza train goes I've never seen anything like that in my fucking life He's like dude, but I'm telling you he's mopping the floor with like division one all-americans world-class grapplers Jiu-jitsu black belts because he's mopping the floor with people.

1:16:55He goes. It's nuts. Yeah, they asked me if I want to spar with him I'm like, Shob goes, fuck you. He's like, fuck you. I'm not going in there. He goes, he was mauling people on the ground. He goes, I never seen anything like it. He goes, it was crazy. He goes, he's so high level. Yeah, I had the privilege of going to the gym in Dubai and training alongside him. And I saw it for myself. And it's, yeah, I was like. It's a shocking level of grappling. Yeah. And when you can achieve that shocking level of grappling on world-class MMA fighters, why wouldn't you do it? This is just my thing, my take on it.

1:17:34Like, if you just want to win and make as much money as possible and keep doing that, you should finish, guys, whenever you can. But if you don't think you can in the path to victories, grappling, this is still a sport. Yeah, fair. If it wasn't a sport, there'd still be headbutts. Yeah, there'd still be stamps. Yeah, stamps, soccer kicks, all the wild shit that used to be. You'd still be able to wear shoes. Who gives a fuck? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's a sport. So if it's a sport, we've got some rules. I just don't think there's anything wrong with winning by the rules. It's not my favorite style.

1:18:07My favorite style is either a knockout artist or a submission artist. I like a guy who just finishes everything. Olivero when he was in his prime. When he was in his prime, just killed him. Catching triangles and Darces. Oh, my God. He was a monster. He was so good. Those guys, like when you watch a guy who's like an elite world-class submission artist and the fight goes to the ground. It's just a totally different thing. You know, you're in real, like Fabrizio Verdum when he was in his prime, when he caught Fedor with that triangle. Bro, that was... Catching Fedor with a triangle is crazy. Yeah, it's crazy, yeah.

1:18:38Just, if you know how explosive that guy is and how fast he is and strong, what a great grappler he is. But Fabrizio Verdum's another guy who doesn't get his due. When you think about all-time goats, you think about Noguera, you think about Fedor, and you think about Minotauro. And Fabrizio Verdum tapped them all. He tapped all the greats. All of them. Tapped them. Tapped them. All the greats. Didn't just win by a decision. Tapped Fedor when Fedor was Fedor. People were like, whoa, that's crazy. Fedor's a beast. Bro, he was a monster. Stoic warrior from Russia. No expression. yeah yeah in his he's the earliest of his time oh way ahead of his that's the first of his time way ahead of his time his ability to catch submissions off his back with lightning speed he had a lightning fast arm bar yeah and power on the feet yeah but he walked down crow cop yeah it's crazy crazy with stand up yeah crow gots head kicks were insane every kick every kick but like fedor was blocking them so intelligently too he was using that high block Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:19:51With the knee way up like that to catch that left kick. And they caught it shin to shin many times. That was a crazy fight. But Fedor in his prime was so good, man. Because he was the first guy other than Minotauro. Minotauro, but he was more dangerous on the feet than Minotauro. But Minotauro on the ground was like one of the first guys, like, super dangerous off his back. Off his back, yep. Yeah, just super, super lethal guard. Like when he beat Bob Sapp. That was the nuttiest fight in the history of MMA. that was the nutty Bob Sapp was 350 pounds with abs I was gonna say he's kind of like your your in Garni nowadays but way bigger obviously yeah yeah way bigger but not as skilled yeah no he's gotten yeah Francis's improvement because in his earlier stages I was just like yeah he's got power but he's technically like Francis basically beat Tyson Fury in a boxing match crazy right basically beat him because I scored it for him I scored it for him 100 % they just couldn't They could not let that happen.

1:20:51He dropped Tyson Fury with a left hook and then danced in front of him. I mean, that's skill. I mean, he wasn't ready for Anthony Joshua because Anthony Joshua was a different thing. He's got more one-shot knockout power. He took it more seriously, too. He likes to switch in. But again, this is where the boxing is. If you don't have that kind of intellect in the boxing, that footwork and foot positioning is put your foot on one side, you're going to get killed. You're putting your foot on the other side. You're safe. You can kind of manage the power and see the punches coming. But he kept switching stances by just leaving himself in just the wrong positions.

1:21:32Yeah, he wasn't ready for a guy like Joshua. He wasn't ready. There was a lot of hype off the Fury fight. Also, Joshua got to watch him box in the Fury fight and see some patterns. Fury, I think, probably took him lightly. Yes, I think so. He's one of the greatest of all time. This guy's never had a boxing match. at the beginning of the fight it's like time to go to school like oh really and then he probably got stunned he just got stunned and that was it he's now working you talk to any fighter they'll tell you the worst times of their life is when they thought that a guy was nothing and then in the middle of the fight they realize oh my god I'm losing they took a guy lightly and they didn't get up for the fight and then they went in there and that dude was fired up and ready to go you know but that's the thing you can't take anybody lightly though no Mike Tyson Buster Douglas another perfect example yeah 100 % no no one thought This guy was partying every day.

1:22:17Exactly. He did not take it seriously at all. He did not take it seriously at all. He got a big respect for Buster Douglas on that one. Oh, my God. It was one of the greatest performances of any heavyweight title fight ever. To want to walk in and do that as well. The fact that that guy could do that the whole time but only did it against Mike Tyson is nuts. Because he was one of those guys, and we all know them, that is super talented and just never realizes their full potential. You know guys in the gym, you'd see them sparring. I talk about this all the time. Like I've had so many people, obviously I've got to see over the years that are talented.

1:22:51And again, it's the same thing, but can you do it when it counts? Can you do it when the lights are on? Can you do it when there's pressure and it means something to you, your friends, your family, money? Yeah. Can you still do it? Yeah. That's when it counts. But I've seen guys that are, there's a guy actually, and I always talk about him just because he was super unique. And weirdly enough, he got to the UFC for, on a short stint, Galore Buffondo. I don't know if you ever remember him. He only had two fights, but he fought Charlie Ward. And I call it Hadouken. He just grabbed him and threw his head into the floor.

1:23:25Oh, jeez. And it was a KO. He actually never got the bonus for that. I don't know how he didn't, because I've never seen anybody just throw someone's head down. You need to watch it at some point. Boom. There you go. Oh, God. And if you keep it going and you see how he finishes, look, he's like. Wow. That dude landed hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That dude landed hard. And if you see the finish, this is how athletic this guy was. Just watch. Light work. Just landed a little spider stance. Yeah, perfect landing. Now, I had to deal with this every day. And that was nothing. He's super explosive. But, again, he's a striker.

1:24:07Very weird striker. We're like, kicks are like his hands. He can... For ages, yeah? I was sparring him one time and me and him, like, I'm the guy with him. When he steps in, my eyes do this. And I'm like, okay, I have to make sure I'm... Because a kick will come from anywhere. And we're sparring and going back and forth. And I'm in my element. And everything slows down for me. And I see his head drop down. and alarm bells are going off. And I'm like, he doesn't, he doesn't shoot. He doesn't go for takedowns. But I'm feeling alarm bells going on. I'm like, something's gone wrong. I don't know why this felt this slow.

1:24:51Something is wrong. And I've never done this block in my life. And I went like this. X block. I've never done this in my life. Never been taught this. My body said, throw your hands. he did that and did a cut wheel kick front flip oh jeez yeah landed on his foot and axe kicked me if I didn't do that I'd be sitting here in two right now wow talking to you about the story that I once used to do MMA and this guy split me in half he and he's front flip axe kick he's done a front flip axe kick that's crazy on his Instagram I don't know if you'll find it but on his Instagram there's clips of him doing it on a bag and he literally He flips, lands on his foot, bah, hits the bag.

1:25:38And he's just standing. But he did it. I've blocked it. Now, even that alone, because I've now blocked it, you should fall off balance. He took his foot off and carried on sparring. Everyone in the gym was like, what the fuck was that? What the hell was that? I never even thought anyone could do that. He's another person that in the cage, he never showed this stuff. I've seen him someone on a single leg and he's run up the cage and slipped up the single leg and kicked off the cage and landed behind the person and started I'm always when I talk about this it sounds like I'm exaggerating he used to do stuff that I've it's only in games and this is what everyone needs to love just watching him do that flip I believe every word you're saying he's because that was crazy the landing was crazy yeah like it was like it was a feather it's not like this yeah no he landed softly on one knee yeah he was insane but just never showed it wow never retired yeah he's like he just he teaches and stuff now but he just and it's a shame and he was a fun character uh like i said amazing person to train with because he made me better because he's and he's got the few people that in the gym that could actually kick me in the head and wow and catch me because i usually i'm good at seeing i got good eyes and he's just yeah it was just something else crazy that you knew it Like you had intuition.

1:27:00I don't know what happened. But as I said, if you don't do this, you're going to die today. Wow. That's crazy that you recognize that of all movements. Yeah. But again, he never shoots. He's a striker. He was sprawling and start doing his jiu-jitsu from there. Never really shoots. And he just went like this. And I'm like, what's going on here? I don't feel like sprawling. something's wrong but I don't feel like sprawling oh here you go here you go oh my god that's crazy he does one and he lands it that's crazy boom that is so crazy imagine doing that during sparring it doesn't make sense and he's I'm talking he's hitting the bag boom look that's crazy and I tell people people feel like nah you're talking rubbish you can hear that oh

1:27:56if that hit me that is so wild and i wish he was able to show this stuff you have to have to pull that off the amount of force you generate yeah and who would see that coming i don't i still don't to this day know how i saw it coming but wow if he did that and again he goes into he went into these fights and he would it would be relatively basic he wouldn't show all of this kind of stuff so he would tighten up in fights yeah he'd just tighten up a little bit he just wouldn't express himself in the same way did anybody at that time work with like a mental coach no I wouldn't from our gym the only person I know did it from our gym was actually Alex Reid and but he is weird character anyway funny guy lovely guy um but he used to have like therapists come and do this kind of stuff and at the time he i feel like i didn't care for it because he just made it seem lame it's just because it was from him but i understand more so as over my time the importance of the mental aspect of things as well maybe if someone could explain to him or if you could have a conversation about what goes wrong when he competes.

1:29:16Like what are the thought process when he competes and what could be done different to change that thought? Like to combat them when those thoughts come up. Yeah. To have a tool. Yeah. Have a mental toolbox where you go, no, no, no. Yep. We're not going to entertain this kind of negativity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to stay positive. We're going to stay zen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the most important things, don't ever give in anxiety. Don't let it get to you. Don't let it follow you. You're positive. You're breathing. You're moving. You're a killer. Keep moving and just have someone with him maybe initially to coach him through those movements.

1:29:47I wish there was some. But again, also maybe the gym that he's in with us at London Shoot, that's not a thing. We beast. We're just going to. And the thing is he still look amazing up into the fight. He'd get to the fight and you'd be like, bro, I can't wait for people to see this. And he'd get there and you're like, what are you doing, man? And it was just frustrating because he was still super, we were still super talented. He still, you know, he won one and I think he lost the next one and then that was it. But even his previous fights before that, he's got some exceptional fights, but just not what he's capable of doing.

1:30:22I've never seen what I've seen in the gym on stage. Wow. Never seen. And he still got signed to the UFC just because he was still talented. But, and obviously somebody saw his talent and was like, yeah, I want that. But that, and nobody's ever seen what I've seen this guy do. And all of our teammates are like, if you've seen that everybody would be throwing money at this guy just make sure he's on the next card it's really crazy it seems to be like that in almost every sport but in fighting in particular because it's the biggest mental hurdle there's no team to fall back on I guess we lost tonight boys you got fucked up in front of the whole world and that's the sport that you're in you're in the sport with the highest highs in the lowest lows.

1:31:11Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that pressure is just, it's unexplainable to the average person. Yeah, you can't explain it really. This is why I try my best to focus on the element of fun because I feel like when I'm dancing, smiling, laughing, joking, everything slows down and everything's enjoyable. There's no stress. And anytime I feel slightly stressed, you might see me dance, which is interesting because people just think I'm just doing it for the other person to mock the other person. And sometimes it's just, ah, just stay chill, man. You're here, you're here. Like, you don't need to do anything more than this.

1:31:52Right. If I feel like a little bit like, oh, that was a bit, and my mind starts going, no, no, no, no. Let's shake it off. Get into this, get into your mode again and then go back to enjoying yourself. That's my, but I know some people need to be in this angry state and just, you know, psych themselves into it and I don't even need to be angry at my opponent. And I think that comes from the fact that I used to have to fight my siblings. It's not based on anger. I love them. But my dad, he used to say, that's not your sibling on the map, but straight afterwards, make sure you pick that person up, make sure they're good.

1:32:27And again, my brother would beat me up. My other brother would beat me up. My sister would beat me up. Everybody, but I still had love for them. So I never needed anger to think. and the fact that my family did this thing and even my nephews and stuff now, we still, they still, it's generational, just something that keeps us all together and we're so close. It's not based on being angry, just based on learning something, enjoying something and doing it with people that you love. So I can, that's why I can make it fun. Everyone loves this whole like tense, like, and I don't. I think what a lot of people don't understand too is the hardest part of it is the day of the fight.

1:33:06It's not the fight. Once a fight starts happening, then you're there. You're in it. And it's not scary. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Unless you're getting fucked up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you're getting fucked up and you know the end is here. Yeah, yeah. There's like, you want to see ultimate bravery? Khalil Roundtree in the last round with Pereira. Yeah. When Pereira's putting it on him, that's ultimate bravery. Because he knows he's getting fucked up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He knows he doesn't have much time. There's nowhere out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. His skill set is all in stand-up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, he can take guys to the ground, but at this point, that's not going to happen.

1:33:39It's not happening. And his face is broken up. Busted up. And Pereira is doing that Cobra thing where he gets Cobra style and he's back and slams in. It's beautiful. It was terrifying. But that kind of bravery in front of the whole world, a lot of people, they're not sure if they have that. Yeah, fair. And so there's just the pressure of that in front of the whole world like that is overwhelming. So maybe they're in there just like, just do enough. Yeah. Just do enough. Exactly. They're scared. Which shrinks you. And sometimes super duper talented people are the most scared because it kind of came too easy for them.

1:34:11There's a thing about super duper talented people that for some reason, like that gift comes with a curse. And that curse is that it came to you too easily. So you never really develop. Understand the grind. Yeah. The real will and drive to like overcome, just make these little tiny wins every day to pile onto a skill set. You're just a lightning bolt. You know you're a lightning bolt and then you know when it's time to actually fight you're like You don't know if you've been tested. Yeah, you don't know who you are yet I think I get a lot though as in that people always like he's just naturally talented And only when I tell people that I used to get my ass handed to me But this is the thing that I've always said guys who grow up with brothers especially older brothers who can kick their ass They're ready to fight at all times because they're fighting in their fucking house They're ready to fight with guys who can beat them up their whole life just that alone like sets you up for competition in a different way than someone like I grew up with my sister we didn't fight it's like nobody beat me up at home it's totally different because you're accustomed to being around hostile males who are dominating yeah was it older or younger though?

1:35:21younger sister okay yeah because my older sister would still beat me up my sister never got into martial arts I was the only one in the family got into it but if I did if I grew up with a bunch of brothers I'm sure we'd be beating the fuck out of each other yeah yeah Weird enough, we had to do it. That's one thing. Again, you'd always say, this is not for out here. This is for in there. If you've got an issue, verbalize it. And if you still have an issue, we can sort it out in there. But yeah, I'd be annoyed. We'd have fights every now and again, but nothing crazy. But it's just the accustomed, being accustomed to just constant back and forth.

1:35:56How about fuck you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like it's in your house. It's in your house. I was the wind up. Oh, yeah? But I couldn't fight, so I had to do it some other way. So you had to talk some shit. Yeah, I took some shit. You also have to be a little tougher because you're the smaller one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's part of the thing. What's crazy about Jon Jones is his brother. He's got two older brothers, no? Well, I think one of them is younger. Isn't Chandler younger? But they're all beasts. Yeah, of course. Both NFL, no? Yeah. So you're growing up in a house of beasts. Like, you better be ready for some hostility.

1:36:33You got to be ready for some aggression. And there's a giant benefit of that as far as mindset. Because the mindset, you're accustomed to hostility. I mean, all his brothers are super freaks, just giant athletes. And so, you know, he's in this house with highly competitive males his whole life. So you're totally accustomed to competition. whereas with some people competition is like super overwhelming and it's this it's a test you don't want to take you almost don't want to find out if you're good enough i think school even the school system has like they slowly over the years they slowly taken out certain things that allows challenges people in a way that gives them that gift of being competitive and especially in the uk i don't i'm not sure about in the states but in the uk we they they changed the rules this was just after i would have left to um not allowed to pick teams because you know because then people feel bad yeah yeah i'm like if you're shit i'm not picking you get better get this is real life like that's how it works in real life and that that bad feeling of getting picked last yeah lionel richie was talking about that yesterday oh serious yes did lionel richie before he was in a band it was always like he was the last one to get picked for this last one he was talking about that openly but look that's what created lano richie 100 yeah and again i think we well again over there i'm not sure here but we model uh molly molly color like yes the kids and then they think that they do you surround them in cotton wool yep and then the real life hits them and they're just like it's the opposite of yoel romero oh yeah exactly you big time on my jean it's the opposite it's the opposite of that i think i was talking to my um my brother as well earlier about how they say was it i forget the saying it's like tough men create good times good times and that the whole cycle of that and it's i thought it's very true though we're creating too much good time for people and everybody's complaining about everything exactly when things are really good the problem is whatever is bad even mildly becomes a giant thing then you're dealing with like microaggressions yeah yeah yeah crazy yeah they look for all kinds of grievances everywhere they go.

1:38:45Yeah. When you are involved in like hard competition, you're not interested in any of that stuff. At all. Because it's just a giant distraction. The real thing is so difficult. And that's why I think, even though it's uncomfortable for kids, I think like wrestling in high school, any kind of competitive sports in high school, martial arts especially. A hundred percent. I've been an advocate for ages. So valuable for you. For ages I've been saying this. It's okay to lose. It's okay to lose. It's actually good for you. very good for you and you need to learn this kind of stuff like I said as soon as you as soon as they're out of your care they have to experience that anyway you can't you're not and I used to do this even when I was teaching we're teaching a jab or something teaching a jab and we're doing slipping drills and you're jabbing like this I was like you're not helping anybody by jabbing away from their face because now this guy thinks he's amazing at slipping punches and then we make him smile and he's like douche douche douche move your fucking head I'll do what I usually do douche so I'm like it's better that you hit him in the gym so then when they go out into the real world or they go into a competition and whatever they can actually they're actually good at these drills that I'm giving you yes you're not helping by trying to be helpful yes you don't have to hit hard but be accurate yes get them used to it and then slowly speed up yeah bro I say this all the time but it's exactly the same thing.

1:40:11People need to go through those actual trials and tribulations in certain areas so that they can be ready for it later on. 100%. And this idea of protecting them and everybody gets a participation trophy. That's so bad for... That feeling of bad from losing is beneficial. It's just like the feeling of being tired after you work out. That's how you get in shape. It's all good for you. Exactly, it's all good for you. You're getting into emotional shape. But this is why I feel a lot of people are trying to take shortcuts for everything. Nobody really wants to do the hard work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nobody wants to do the hard work.

1:40:48And I get it. If it's really excessive, you let it get to a certain point. And it's like, okay, you need to at least some help to get to a certain point to then work out. But you need to work. You need to work. And it's good for your brain. Your brain is, we have, for whatever reason, a whole series of human reward systems that are built into our brains from the times that we were all living in tribes thousands and thousands of years ago. And in this brain, it requires tasks. There's things, it's like enforced in your brain that if you go out and you make arrowheads and you hunt the deer, you have food.

1:41:24Your family survives. So you have tasks. So you're whittling the stick and you're into it. And you better be fucking into it. Because if you're not into it, you're not going to eat. So if you have a life where there's none of those things, and you're sitting there in front of Netflix, of course you're depressed. Of course you're depressed. Your body's not getting any of the stuff that it needs. Your mind isn't getting any of the tasks that it needs. Someone was telling me, it's the reptilian mind that looks for dangers or seeks dangers. Because we're not in a society that has those dangers. We look at our dangers are now, this person looked at me funny.

1:41:58Or even with me. worse your phone your phone yeah it's even it's even easier now yeah people are commenting on yeah oh the haters yeah yeah yeah yeah to be fair it's funny the first time this was still earlier so my comments were from youtube initially i had an instagram i didn't really use it like that so after my first fight i was super pumped i'm like because like i said to you i was so nervous after my first fight and i always say i always say look if you watch all of my walkouts are being like yeah vibes yeah yeah i'm just happy to be here my first fight i was like this i was dying inside joe just like what in my head i literally i was like why did i decide to do this i was like why am i here but what i was stressed the whole walk was the most the longest walk and you've never seen me so tense and then the second i got in there and the bell rang i was like oh yeah same thing okay then i started to feel myself and you know the vibe like my energy starting like the mvp that we obviously come to know now i came out and that was for me that was just like that was great but in terms of uh i just lost real go ahead you lost what you're talking about yeah yeah no worries it happens all the time so but that was interesting that then the second fight was the one that it really overwhelmed you that was in the second fight in the in the UFC it overwhelmed me but so the first fight you ever had was when you walked out that's when I walked out the first fight you were so that was me against me versus me versus dishman and I just walked out and seriously I just had nothing but fear inside me and what kind of what kind of athlete was he what did he do I'm not sure he's a kickboxer or something didn't see my first fight we had i had like i think three pullouts before i got to that fight like probably like three weeks before three different people and at the at that level it happens all the time yeah and i had fights online so my coach was like can you are you able to take these down i'm like they're randomly filmed from so many random people yeah So I wouldn't even know where to begin to find out to try and get them taken down.

1:44:25So if anybody did research, they would see that I've got, I had like a 720 kick.

1:44:34So it made sense why people was pulling out. For people that don't understand what that means, that's not a 360 degree kick. This is one of them. This wasn't even the first time I did it. Where is it? yes it'll be after this okay yeah okay it's gonna be yeah just before this just before this

1:45:07that's crazy that's such a crazy kick that dude is sitting there going how the fuck did he hit me with that he put his hands on his knees and everything like how the fuck did he pull that off so I understand why like people would look at that and be like no not yet but this guy stepped in and yeah like I just I felt so bad negative going forward walking in but then once I was in there but yeah if you see the walkout oh this one doesn't have it but even how I'm even here I'm super tensed like it was only until I started bouncing that it was even a thing what was the thing that was bothering you the most about doing this just just my decision like why did i do this i don't know specifically oh but once you got once i yeah once i got in there i was like oh cool he had an obvious game yeah yeah he was trying to take me down yeah he wasn't strong so i was like yeah just push off like felt i was feeling good and i think after he felt my strength he was like okay it's kind of stood back that's such a problem it's such a problem i'm watching you move here and i'm thinking like what do you do oh you can't do anything you can't do anything because he's so far away from you and you like that when you try to close the distance on him and or when rather he tries to close the distance on you and he just can't he just can't get close like look at that that's just nuts That's a terrible puzzle to try to solve in real life.

1:46:45Wow, look at that dive. That's pretty good, though. You got a hold of your ankle. I mean, that shows you how much you wanted that takedown. Yep, until this happens. Oh, boy. The best part is just the standing there.

1:47:04That's amazing. Look at this. This is amazing. That is amazing. That's the best not walk-off KO ever. Right? That's a standoff KO. Like, you realize. That's crazy. You didn't even look at him. That's amazing. You just stared at the crowd. It's funny when people ask me, like, why did you stand there? Like, what if he came back? I was like, I landed the kick, and I stood still, and I was thinking he might come back, so I'm going to spin the other way and land another kick. That was the game. And then when he just, the referee stepped in, I was like, perfect. This looks good. This looks good. It did look good.

1:47:37it looks like the thing i went okay that's where i remember i was going i went crazy viral for that everyone's like who's this guy like and i was i was like because of the relief that i had because of how tense i was i was like oh my god like that was for me ticking the box that i can actually do this i can actually make a career of this because yeah i wasn't sure and got home what did you jump online like i want to i want to see like i'm seeing a video like crazy thousands of like comments and this and that like okay yeah maybe the next comment maybe the next one nope yeah people don't like me they didn't like you for that video i felt like i had murdered someone's child for that video yeah okay it just it just shows you why you shouldn't read comments no 100 because you're only getting the opinions of the dumbest motherfuckers alive if you just saw that yeah so let me tell you my thought when i saw that because when that clip went viral i went finally yeah like this is proof of what i've been saying for a long time like they're they have a different thing yeah like the really elite point fighters have a totally different thing and you can't even get close to hitting them and we're seeing that yeah yeah that was the beginning of it yeah yeah because even though raymond had really good success in glory yeah he was amazing yeah he did a great success in glory but it was different right because you're in a small ring it's roped off and he wasn't accustomed to leg kicks yet he had a he had that one spectacular jumping side kick spin back kick to the face he nearly hit me with one of those he was very famous for his double back kicks oh my god and then every now and again he would hook it and it was just like he's not people out in the points game for it and everyone's seen it like and I remember I think it was the first time I fought him and I was young but I had a reputation he was the guy like over in America that had a reputation and we've collided.

1:49:36I was like, I don't care who this guy is, man. I was feeling myself. I was killing everybody for ages. I remember faking, like moving, moving, moving around, moving around, faking, faking, got him in the corner. I was like, oh, perfect. Boom, blitz. Same thing. I was like, something's off. Boom, did this. Bah, bah. But both, normally the first kick is light. Both stamps. I was like shit Not only was that fast but I was powerful as well and that just got into my head this threw me threw me right off I didn't want to commit to any of my strikes and it just it just from the first from the first Moment he let that go.

1:50:16I was like, yeah It was very dangerous dangerous very dangerous dangerous dangerous and he was another guy that like You know proved that point that yeah, this is a completely different skill set And if you don't know how to deal with that, you're in real. They took the elite guys. It took like the Nicky Holskins and the Joseph Valtellinis, those guys. Nicky was beast. Yeah. Just chop the legs. And Nicky was so technical. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was tight, hands up high, chop the legs, chop the legs. He was a beast. Yeah. Chopping the legs, man, is a totally different ballgame. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As soon as the legs start getting chopped, you're like, oh.

1:50:50It's hard. You can't bounce anymore. But that's the thing. It's weird because I started to utilize that as a way to win fights. weird not obviously taking the leg kicks but only giving you that option so everyone's like yeah but that's an awkward style i was like yeah but when i stand in front of you like that you don't think to do a punch because i look i feel way too far away so you're not doing a punch you're not the only thing you have is what's in front of you is a kick so it's like i got used to timing kicks as you're as you're kicking collision going in or just just pulling just off and then putting my foot in slightly deeper and then just pull it off and put my foot in slightly deeper now i know i can pull this trigger when i'm ready and you're you're getting more and more demoralized because you're not landing you're throwing a kick you're swinging around and there's only one thing available there's only one thing available yeah so i have to keep pressing that same button right and the idea of you shooting on it feels far yeah too far feels very far well that's the hamzat thing it's like hamzat shoots from the middle of the fucking octagon that that guy's got a crazy Shot that shot hit Whitaker with and the one he went with Who is it?

1:51:59Oh the leech when he picked up the leech picked him up carried him over the day This is nuts he was another guy they're like how the fuck are you making 170? Yeah, he's a big he's a big when I first met him. I was like, what are you talking? Yeah? 170 big boy. I fucking hate the weight cutting. I hate it. I hate it with a passion I hate it more than anything in the sport. I think it should be eliminated, but it's too late yeah i don't think i think people should get down to a healthy weight and fight for the healthiest weight whatever the hell that is do you think there would be a way to combat that because obviously in boxing they got the you have to weigh in multiple times now well some fighters make you do that like gervonta davis he made uh ryan garcia do that okay i wanted to make sure that ryan garcia didn't rehydrate yeah mayweather did that to canelo too it's just a g move yeah that's smart That's when you're the A-side.

1:52:51You're the smaller. You're the A-side. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll fight you, but you've got to weigh 143 when you get in that fucking ring, bitch. Guys will take that fight for that big paycheck, but it's not a good move. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I just think that it's legalized cheating. I just think that it's cheating. Look, if you're a 155-pound champion, but you weigh 190 pounds, that's kind of crazy. That's kind of crazy. I agree. and if I didn't have to weight cut, because if you don't join in, you're fighting monsters. That's true, but they would have to fight monsters too. Everybody would have to fight a person that weighs what they actually weigh.

1:53:27No, I agree with that, but I'm just saying with the fact that people are weight cutting, when I got to this arena, I'd prefer to just report what I weighed at. Yes. But because everyone's weight cutting, I was like, oh, you have to. You have to. You have to do it. Because look, when you were fighting at 170, for people that understand, man, I'm short. That's 30 pounds less than me. That's crazy. That's crazy. That's just a giant advantage that you can't give up. And when you're doing that across every single weight class and every single world championship, the last guy that I know that didn't cut weight was Frankie Edgar when he was a 155-pound champ.

1:54:05When Frankie Edgar was a 155-pound champ, he weighed 155, and he moved like a ghost. He was all over the place. He was fast as fuck. He had great endurance. his recovery was incredible because he could take a great shot because he wasn't dehydrated like everybody else was. That's the thing. I actually feel great at middleweight. Yeah. We definitely have the size for it. Yeah. I'm naturally that way but it's weird though because people's body types because they are cutting they're still slightly stocky. Not necessarily frame wise as big as me but they're just slightly stockier and obviously as you say the guys that want to come in and just go.

1:54:41Yeah. They just want to clinch and get you down. It's a giant advantage. It's an advantage if they're going to be that much heavier than me as well. Giant. Moving people. Even in my last fight, when I got taken down in that last round, against Kananir, trying to move him. I was just like, Jesus. Kananir's huge. He's a big boy. And he's one of the only guys that's got KOs in three different weight classes. I know, I know. From heavyweight, light heavyweight, middleweight. And middleweight. Yeah, beast. He's huge for 185. but it's another perfect example and i think look there's something to be said for the ritual of doing it for a lot of fighters it means a lot and you could choose to cut less so that you're more healthy the day of the fight but everyone kind of concedes you have to cut something yeah and i just don't think that's smart 24 hours before a fight in a cage yeah why would you deplete your body purposely because it's basically like getting drunk yeah it really is like you're dehydrating the shit out of your body.

1:55:41Seeing people just look a mess. And you only have three, five, 40 hours to rehydrate between the weigh-ins and the time you're actually going to fight. If you're lucky, you have 40 hours. That's not enough time. Yeah, I can do it. I don't care to do it. I can do it. I just, I agree with you. You have to do it. If everybody was like, yeah, okay, let's all just do it at our weights. Well, imagine if people did dehydrate and rehydrate and we started calling it cheating. You know what I mean? I mean it would be if people got caught and they looked at it the same way people look at people getting out with steroids Because there's the reality is right now you can't do it because of the weight class limitations There's too many weight classes where like where you're at so 85 to 205.

1:56:25That's nuts. That's 20 pounds That's so And for maybe people who've never grappled they don't know what that means or never been punched You don't know what that means, but that's a giant amount of fucking horsepower and gravity on top of you. And so if you've got weight classes at a reasonable space, like I feel like 10 pounds is good. I feel like every 10 pounds, you can go 45, 55, 65, 75. And if you're in between, you either add muscle or you lose weight. You stop lifting as much weights and do more cardio. You'll get down to that, right? Yeah, naturally. But that's what you are, what you actually are.

1:57:04And if we did that, there would have to be some sort of a hydration thing where they just show up and weigh you. Like, you know, like people show up and drug test you now. Yeah, drug test you, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like drug-free sport, they'll just knock on your door. Hey, Venom, what's up? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you pee in this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's talk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense to me. Yeah, just show up. What do you weigh? Get on the scale. Yeah, yeah. And then you get on the scale. 190? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bro, you're a Bantamweight. This is crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because there's dudes that are out there doing that.

1:57:30Oh, no, 100%. We always talk about Gleason Tebow. When Gleason Tebow was 155-pounders, he looked like a bodybuilder. He looked like you weighed 200 pounds when he got into the cage. It was nuts, man. Yeah, the rehydration. I've seen people cut ridiculous amounts. And then, yeah, like you said, the way they rehydrate. It's terrible. But it's also a lie. You're not 155 pounds. You're 200 pounds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what you actually weigh. And I understand why you do it. I understand why everybody does it. But there's got to be a better way. The worst I ever saw was Travis Luter when he fought Anderson Silva.

1:58:05I don't remember that one. He lost, but he had Anderson down. Travis Luter was an elite black belt, and he was in the ultimate fighter. Wins the ultimate fighter. I mean, dominates everybody. Dominates people on the ground. Everybody that I talked to trained with him. It was like guys on a whole other level as far as jiu-jitsu. And the day of the weigh-in, he can't make the weight. And he's so dehydrated that his lips are cracked. And he's not walking to the scale. He's shuffling. And I'm watching him. And he missed the first time. And then this is like one of the second or third time that he tried to make weight.

1:58:38And they eventually didn't make weight. So even if he beat Anderson, he wouldn't have won the title. But bro, he had him down. And he was on top of him in the beginning of the round. And for anybody that's ever rolled with Travis, if he was healthy and he has you down on the ground, like that's, you're in, you're fucksville. That guy's good. He was really good. but it was just the weight was way too much. He was just drained. Then 24 hours later, you're supposed to fight one of the greatest fighters of all time. And it depletes the liquid around your brain as well. So you're taking a shot, so you're not going to take it as well.

1:59:11Exactly. Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah, I agree. You're tired, your endurance sucks. Everything's all fucked up. Everything's all fucked up. But it's why I get down very close to my weight because on fight week, I'm very low. Like, what do you weigh? If you're fighting 185, what are you weighing? Fight week. 185 is easier, though, so 190. Oh, that's great. Yeah, yeah. Like, I don't like to cut to. What about 170, when you're at 170? I get down to probably about 182, 183. Not that bad. Not that bad, and then cut down from there. That's not that bad. Yeah, again, I don't like to overstress myself. Pereira weighed in at 185 and fought at 220.

1:59:51He's massive. Fought at 220. Yeah, yeah, yeah. weight in at 85 fought at 220 yeah like you said that's that's a lot that's insane that's a lot that's insane yeah that's so much fucking weight and what does that do to you yeah I've seen people I can't even remember what fire it is it's in Bellator and his he was banging the sauna to get out and his coach was holding the door oh god you need five more minutes oh my god and the guy is kicking the door like he's like I'm never doing that I don't ever want to feel like that. That's so crazy. So many guys black out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I've seen people passing out and stuff.

2:00:30Brian Ortega was just in an interview talking about that. He essentially almost like, how did he describe it? It was like 30 minutes where he was in real trouble for his last weight cut. Yeah, he's like, he just got really wrecked. People have blacked out before. He's a lady that fell off the scales, wasn't it? she stepped back off the scales and then just her legs just went oh i don't remember 30 minute coma oh sugar due to his weight cut for algermean sterling holy shit but he missed he keeps yeah yeah this is it's too much for i don't know why doesn't he just go up well that's the problem is the guys at 55 are jacked i think he just he dialed in his diet though he looks a lot thinner now like he showed pull up some of those photos he's got on his instagram he's been taking photos lately like he just he realized like he can never do that again yeah lost a lot of body oh that's good yeah so I think sometimes that is the discipline of it as well oh yeah yeah yeah yeah way leaner big difference that's where you know that in ages yeah that's where he needs to be a hundred percent you know I still live that good life I say even when you said about like having like random weight checks he'd make me consider certain burgers sometimes Yeah, but they would have to give you an out of shape clause.

2:01:50No, of course, of course. You know, like give you like 10, 15 pounds in between fights. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then once you start training, they should be able to randomly show up during those six weeks and go, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. All right, Michael, get on the scale. 174. I agree with that. Okay, good to go. Yeah, I agree with that. Good to go. We're inside of six pounds. Because what you actually cut, what you're saying at 85 is perfect in my opinion. Yeah, I don't like to be. Five pounds is just a good weight sauna session. Yeah, yeah. It's not that much. you're not losing a ton of what you're not killing yourself yeah maybe you ride the bike for a half hour like what do you do i literally do a 30 minute jog it's like really low with a sauna suit on uh straight away i take that off go straight into the sauna 15 minutes then wrap 15 minutes and wrap and i'm done see that's perfect yeah that's actually probably therapeutic yeah that's i mean it's not it's not bad for you at all that's probably actually very good for you because You're giving your body all this recovery from the sauna and you're getting a nice little cardiovascular workout, but nothing crazy.

2:02:46Nothing crazy at all. You're giving yourself a lot of heat shock proteins. You're not killing yourself. But there's guys, man. I've seen them. Yeah, I've seen it, man. And they look like, okay, here's the worst one. The worst one. Other than Travis. Travis was the worst because I watched him shuffle backstage. But the visuals is TJ Dillshaw when he went down to flyweight. He fought Henry Cejudo at flyweight and he looked like a dead man. Yes, I remember this. He looked like a hostage that had just gotten released and had not been fed. Yeah, just fed for ages. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He looked fucking terrible.

2:03:18Because he gets quite jacked as well. Yeah. He fucked up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He fucked up. Look at what he looked like on the left. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's crazy. That picture right there. That's what I mean. He's quite big there. Right. That picture. That picture is fucking crazy. That's a prisoner of war. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That's not a guy. Look at what he looks like now. That's what I mean. That's what I mean. fucking yeah now he's a tank that's the one on the right is not fair because that's yeah that's yeah he's finished now but yeah a buck 65 now he's fucking he's massive but he was he's another guy that doesn't get the credit that he deserves when he fought Hannon Burrell I love this pure flow yes pure flow but it's the level changes oh me up and that you don't know where he's attacking it's not it's not linear I'm going here I'm going here switching stances yeah I used to love watching his style.

2:04:09Have you ever talked to Ludwig? No. Oh, you should meet Dwayne Bang Ludwig and talk to him because Dwayne is the one who coached him in that style. Dwayne, who was an elite kickboxer himself and fought in the UFC, at one point in time had the fastest ever knockout in the UFC. I think it was a five or six second knockout in the UFC. It was one of the fastest ever. Just step back, one right hand, plan. But Dwayne was a beast. But maybe even better than he is as a fighter, he is as a coach. Oh, wow. And he doesn't have that style. This is what's crazy. He devised that style. So this is Dwayne. Watch this.

2:04:47Bank Nice So you could call it six seconds. I don't think it was six that dad. I don't even think it was six But the point is Dwayne style like he learned from boss root and and you know, it's like Dutch kickboxing Yeah Yeah But he realized like Dwayne is like this consummate Studier of fighting and he realized that the best way to fight is to overwhelm them with possibilities and options But have a whole system of how to do this Yeah So his system is all about switching stances and combinations while you're switching and turning and moving and but he's got it mapped out Nice, nice, nice. The dude came over to my place with like a binder.

2:05:25Oh. Like this thick binder of techniques. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's full on egghead with this shit. And TJ and him just locked up. And the fruits of that labor was the Hennon-Burau fight. Go to that fight, Jamie. Because I feel like this was one of the finest championship performances at the time. I thought it was the best I had ever seen. Of a guy who was an underdog going into a fight. Hennon-Burau at that time a lot of people thought was the pound for pound best. It was him and Jose Aldo. They were talking about those two guys together and TJ just went in there and worked them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2:05:57I mean, it was like a sparring match. He went in there super loose and just moving around and started cracking them. Yeah, yeah. It's a fun watch though. Just get me in there. Yeah. So this is like Henan Burrell was the boogeyman. Everybody was scared of this dude. He was so fucking good. Look how he starts. Woo. Woo. Stepping with an uppercut. Just movement. Constant movement. Overwhelming you. And look, always on the tips of his toes, moving around. He didn't back up at all. And never gave Hennon Burrell the chance to get some momentum going. And at the end, when he eventually stopped him, I mean, it was just a fucking ruthless combination when he took him out of there.

2:06:36But, like, if you knew how difficult it is to be, look at that right hand. Right off the bat in the first round. At this point, Hennon Burrell was like, oh, no. Yeah, I'm in problems. Yeah, because nobody had thought that TJ was going to be capable of doing this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. TJ, you know, was a really good up-and-coming fighter, a really good contender, but this was his finest performance, and it was in a world championship fight against a guy that everybody thought was the man. TJ just beat that ass. And if you go, like, further, see if you can go to the actual stoppage, Jamie, like, further in the fight.

2:07:12When he, like, at this point in time, TJ's just styling on him. Just standing right in front of him and popping him. Look at that. Beautiful job. Not getting hit, staying right in range, dropping down. Head movement. Yeah. Oh, look at that head kick. Beautiful. Oh, my goodness. Beautiful. Look at this. I mean, and it's artistic. It's fucking beautiful, man. Yeah, I love it. It's a beautiful stoppage. Yeah. Like, one of the best championship winning performances in the history of the sport. Yeah, yeah, easy. In the history of the sport. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Beautiful. Woo. But that dude, unfortunately, had two bum shoulders.

2:07:45Oh, so is that what it was? Yeah, forever. he had even when he won the title his shoulders were fucked he had torn super spinatuses in both of his shoulders I've done one on this side it got to the point where he never got it fixed so it got to the point where they just popping out so by the time he fought Aljamain Sterling yeah just like I told the the referee in the locker room my shoulders gonna go out of socket oh yeah yeah that's crazy to go in there knowing and that's so now he had to retire and He had multiple operations on a shoulder and he can't even reach over his head. He gets his arm that far Like that's how fucked is three months ago.

2:08:21He's got to get another one. Oh, oh, yeah You can see geez. Oh my god get another soldiering They're gonna cut off the head of my humerus and turn the head into a plastic plunger That sounds like a bit too much. I hate it. I said like surgery for anything He has the worst shoulder injuries. I've ever seen I know there's been a lot like yours that come before It was from wrestling. Oh, it was from wrestling. I think it's just from having torn shoulders and just trying to rehab them and not getting them surgically fixed. Okay, okay. You can have some things loose in there and strengthen everything else up and kind of be functional.

2:08:54But I don't know if you're going to be a world championship fighter. Fair, fair, fair. And the problem with a lot of those things is once it tears and pulls back, you can't get it back in place. Yeah. So then you have really complicated surgeries where you have to take a piece of your hamstring and stick it up there or some other part of your body and reconstruct what was supposed to be there. And then you have to slowly build range of motion into it. He got to the point where he was too tough for the injuries that he had, where he should have probably got them fixed immediately and maybe he could have prolonged his career.

2:09:24It sounds like he went back in in terms of getting back into training a bit too quickly. I feel like the rehab can work. I know, obviously, there's certain things you're going to need surgery for. But there's a lot of my stuff I've managed to bring it back. I don't think he had surgery until after he was done fighting. Oh, so he didn't even have surgery? No, he had surgery on one of his knees because he blew his knee out in the Sanhagen fight. Or I should say Sanhagen, after talking with Sanhagen about what happens in that 50-50 position, Sanhagen blew his knee out. Oh, okay. So he put him in a position where if TJ didn't give in, he was going to get his knee fucked up.

2:10:01And he chose to get his knee fucked up. But that was Corey putting him in that position. So he had to get an ACL reconstruction. So that but I don't think he got the shoulder surgeries until after he was done fighting He might have gotten one and then tried to fight again. Yeah, but the problem is like his shoulders were fucked man They were really fucked but that doesn't look fixed Well for you to be Not having to no no no no no it doesn't look fixed, but I think that's all they could do with it I think it was bad. I think it was that bad looking an article from right after that fight It says his third shoulder surgery since 2019 Okay, so that's when he started getting them.

2:10:36And when was that fight? When was the last fight that he had? That was like 2023? The Aljo fight, I think it was 22? Oh, yeah. UFC 280? Mm-hmm. Is it 2022? That's when this article was from. Okay, so he had those shoulder surgeries, and then I know he's had a ton since. And since, you know, like you look on his Instagram page, it's like every few months, it's him in a sling. Well, here we go, trying again. I know guys that are like surgery, surgery, surgery, surgery, and it, like, Like they, it never seems to, I've never, unless I'm forced to, I don't ever really go down a surgery route. I always try and figure it out a different way.

2:11:11Like I've had, weird enough, it was both my shoulders, but one was super spinatus. The other one was rotator cuff and kind of like some lat injury as well. But just slowly, to the point where I couldn't do a pushup. When, in my last couple of, is it bellator fights? Yeah, my last few bellator fights, I couldn't do a pushup. I could still hit in certain angles. I was fine but I had no strength in that direction while you were fighting while I was fighting yeah yeah oh no yeah yeah so literally trying to get that my arms would just start shaking I couldn't why didn't you do something about that I was doing I was doing like rehab I was like as long as I can hit you I'm fine that's so crazy going into a fight with that kind of a major handicap I've had worse but what's the worst I don't I don't say as an excuse so but The day before my Ian Gary fight, I couldn't stand on my left foot.

2:12:11Why not? Up till today, I don't understand it. I had the UFC PI working everything. They did shock therapy. They did acupuncture. They were doing everything. And I literally had it. I had a, if you see the fight, I literally had ankle supports on. and they said you're allowed the ankle supports you can't really have it taped but i had it taped under the ankle support but obviously if i couldn't just do one ankle to do both of them so i had to do both of them and um yeah just the day before the fight i'm not sure if i did anything when i was uh cutting weight like twinged it or something but i don't remember anything distinct happening but couldn't walk on my foot so it was your ankle you twisted my it was my ankle or something and they were working on it literally i was trying i was in you know you don't have a single instance where it went i don't remember anything all of a sudden it just hurt going it just started it hurt the night before it hurt the night before so on the weigh-in it hurt and i was walking around and i was like it's hurt but it didn't feel like anything drastic and overnight it just got worse and worse and worse and worse probably exaggerated by the weight cut maybe yeah Yeah, and then literally the next day in the morning, we had to go to the PI.

2:13:27My coach was like, bro, you can't bounce here now. I'm going to have to pull your fight. I was like, there's no way I can get pulled from this fight. It's not happening. I was like, it's not happening. Wow. And I went out there and he's like, I'm bouncing. I'm trying to adjust myself and bounce. And they did the tape that he was going to use for the fight. And he said he'll come in and do it again just before the fight. and yeah it was i was just like adjusting adjusting and i obviously i had a still had a great performance yeah i had to i had my so my guy uh my videographer uh kishan uh he filmed he was we're doing a documentary so he's filmed all of it as well it's kind of like i'll wait till it comes out as known but not like i'm not even to say as an excuse because i was able to adrenaline just I'm in it now and fight but there were certain things I was being cautious of and not wanting to do but yeah it was just irritating but I've had that's probably the worst in terms of how close to the fight it was because it's the day before but I've had injuries in the build up and I'm like as long as I can throw a punch and throw a kick I'll make it happen that's the thing that people don't understand when they watch fights like sometimes guys this is one of the things about the rematch this weekend Ankhlaev versus Pereira is that Pereira supposedly had a fucked up left hand and rotavirus before the last fight.

2:14:48I believe it. He looked off. He looked off. He definitely didn't look himself. But Ankhlaev looked really good. 100%. I don't want to take anything away from Ankhlaev. When someone looks off, I'm always like, it's like Roy Jones. People go, Roy Jones didn't fight anybody. No, no, no. Roy Jones fought everybody but he made him look like there were nobody because they were fighting Roy Jones. Exactly. So is that what's going on? Is Ankhlaev that good? and so we don't know so we gotta see him fight again I'd only say no just because towards the fifth round it looked like Pereira could do some stuff like it's like okay you're actually now landing that calf kick a bit more now you're actually starting to do it's like why didn't you start like that he didn't have the gas yeah so if you've got rotavirus your gas is very low and probably your energy level feels very low so he's trying to be he's conserving energy and so so this is what makes this fight so much more interesting because hopefully he's had the camp he is and Kaliev hopefully comes in looking exactly the same way he did that last fight.

2:15:44Yeah, or better. Or better. He's going to be better because he's going to be the champion. I think there's a thing that happens, and Daniel Cormier has expressed this too. It's like a 30 % bump when you become the champion. You know, like when you were talking about when you won that tournament, and also you were better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there's that when you get the championship. Hopefully, you're going to get to experience that. Yes, yes. You'll get to experience that bump. but this is you know I feel like that's just we're gonna have to see and it's a very intriguing one because Pereira if he hurt his left hand that's the doom punch exactly that left hook that's death that's the one that's the one if you look at his highlight reel there's so many left hooks and he catches people even when he grazed like Jamar Hill yeah it was a I still don't get it now he grazed him he's got a hell of a punch on him man he put him out yeah yeah the Yuri Prochaska one at the end of the first round you're like yo and then he head kicks him in the beginning of the second yeah he's got ferocious power that head kick was fast yeah i think it was fast as well boy i hope he's healthy but i heard he's super heavy coming into this week oh is it i heard he's like 230 going into this week yeah but for him i guess he's got a lot to cut yeah some guys can do it yeah yeah i don't know what the fuck well i guess if he was able to get to middleweight Yeah.

2:17:01Well, yeah. But also sometimes it makes you lazier as well. Like, oh, I can do that. I can eat this. Yeah. And then you get close to the time. Oh, shit. It's a bit of work now. Well, he has talked about moving up. Again? Yeah. And so has Ancolaiv. Oh, yeah. Actually, he has. Yeah, yeah. Ancolaiv just said that recently, that he wants to defend the title a couple of times, then move up to heavyweight. I think it's a bit too small. Maybe. But if you put size on and he gives himself enough time, he's got the skill set and Aspinall is going to need some fucking challenger. But then does, yeah, fair.

2:17:33Right? Unless Cyril Ghan beats him, right? Yeah, yeah. But then does he need, you know, does he, I would say that the time that Jon Jones took off to get too heavyweight, does he need that kind of time? Because it takes a while to put on size like that. And actually takes ages. Not when you're over in Russia. Fair. Enough said. Yeah. Real difficult to get those fucking drug testing guys on a plane. If they do, everybody knows when they're landing.

2:18:04Fair. Good luck going into the bathroom while those guys pee. Yeah. You will accept glass of urine. I will hand it to Vitaly. He handles it to you. This is clean urine.

2:18:20I'm not accusing him of doing that, but I know that. Yeah, yeah. It happens. For sure. Listen, I mean, there's always the joke about guys going over to Thailand. Like, why are they going over to Thailand? It was good training. and also really hard to get those USADA guys on a flight. Ah, I know that. Yeah, there's a lot of speculation about that. I feel so ignorant to that kind of stuff. I just don't care enough because, like I said, I don't really have a schedule for anything, even the good stuff, like the things you're supposed to be doing. I'm just like, eh, I'll do it. So you're not like a supplement guy?

2:18:51At all. I don't take protein shakes at all. Nothing? Nothing. Nothing. That's crazy. No, no, no. Never. Never been into it. Multivitamins? Vitamins, yeah. But again, I just forget to take them. Seriously, ADHD mind. I'm just like. You should have someone who makes like a little packet for you. Yeah. So I'm going to get my wife to do it soon because she's very into that. She's very into her fitness and stuff. She's a Pilates instructor. She's got her own Pilates app and stuff. And she smartly, well, I don't even know if she even intended it that way, but she kind of blew up over COVID because she set up her app at that time and now everyone's at home.

2:19:34Oh, perfect timing. You know what I mean? It's just perfect timing. And she just blew up her app called Cloud9 Collective and she does Pilates for Women. But have you ever done Pilates yourself? Yes, I have. Bro, I did a video with her and got her to train some MMA. And then she's like, okay, you come and do this Pilates. She killed me. It's a lot more difficult than I thought. It's so much. But I didn't know. A lot of weird muscles. Yeah. Inside of your leg muscles. But that's what's actually helped with a lot of my, the rehab side. Because it's those muscles that we bypass. We go to the big muscles.

2:20:03Yeah, we want to work these muscles. And it's all those little ones that are not getting worked. And those are the ones that are injured. Stabilizers. Stabilizers. Yeah. And I didn't know that it was a man, I forget his first name, but called something Pilates who started it for men in war to help recover guys in war to get them back out to war. Wow. But it's become such a female-led sport. Well, that goes to speak about what I was talking about with the Russians and being technical. You know who was really into Pilates? Kovalev. Remember when Kovalev was the light heavyweight champion? The crusher?

2:20:38Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was fucking everybody up. He was big into Pilates. He was doing Pilates all the time. And everybody was like, wait a minute, what? That guy? The strength you can get from anywhere. Because, like I said, those smaller muscles that help facilitate the bigger muscles. Yeah. Like, it's crazy. crazy it's the same people that like look down on yoga like bitch go to a 90 minute hot yoga class okay i did that yeah it's hard and i was like yeah i'm gonna go to a yoga a hot yoga you know i was more thinking just it's nice to kind of get the sweat going and stuff i remember the lady she's like oh yeah go to if you go to that side of the room it's a bit it's quite hot uh so you know if you're new to it just go to this side of the room and i was like this woman whatever man get over that let me go to that hot side and she's like oh you know if you feel if you ever feel faint at all you don't have to continue you can kind of just sit down i'm just like what is she talking about it's not that hot in here google me lady bro i think like three moves later i slowly like just like moved the mat like i didn't want to go too far i didn't want to but i moved from the hot side of the room to like the middle ish closer to that side and then there was one move i was stretching and like i literally just got lightheaded i was like shit this is real it's real it was real you see all those little old ladies in there and you think oh yeah yeah yeah it's difficult my my wife is strong as hell and i'm just like yes it has to be from that like she and then when i do the session i did a session with her this morning because she does some great sessions like when i do sessions with her like she she kills it and she's i have to say she's smart in his in how she's done it as well because actually something i didn't know because she's On her app, she's done a cycle syncing specifically for women.

2:22:16I didn't realize that women have a, obviously, I knew women, 28-day cycle, and men have a 24-day cycle, 24 hours, and they have 28 days. So there are specific times that they should be training harder than they shouldn't be training, or they should be doing this and should be doing that. Based on biometrics? Based on just them. The time of the cycle of the month. The time of the cycle of the month. But again, in my head, I'm like, there's girls that are training our class and they have to train and do everything that we do. But we don't, we forget that we're just doing it based on that men can kind of just keep going.

2:22:53Well, women should think about that when they're scheduling fights. 100%. Wow. That should be a thing. And as I said, she did it for Pilates. And I looked into it and I was like, oh, there's actually, this is like even down to ice baths. Great for you. Not for women though. Really? Not all the time. But if you look into it, so there's specific times that's okay for them, but they shouldn't put their body under that kind of stress in the same way that we can. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. So there's loads of, when I started looking at certain, there's loads of things that we forget that a lot of times it's done from a male point of view.

2:23:25Right. Forgetting that we're just different. I never would have thought about that in terms of their menstrual cycle and fighting. Yes. But of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Yeah. Wow. so yeah she's put it on so individuals can actually be like her it was scheduled and say look you're good specifically for you are good to train intensely today or no you need a very relaxed session and these videos that she's got hundreds of videos on i think that will come up and be like this is for you this was for you this was for you but again it just made me think about the women in mma like you said yeah it's the same thing scheduling fight even down to for them weight cutting you know at a certain time you're going for their loot of your face they're holding weight right like it's just it's just different yeah we don't have any of those issues to worry about but we get them to do the same structure as we would do that's a very good point you know i mean that it's it they they should be more information about that even for the female fighters yeah they should actually be like their coaches should be setting fights up entirely based on i wonder like how many fights they would have won that they there you go couldn't really train right Yeah.

2:24:31Because they're cramping up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're just different. I've seen some videos of you. You do a lot of plyometric stuff as well, right? And is that something you've always done? Well, it kind of comes with just the – this is why I feel like I can bounce on my calves for ages, just because of that constant. And it seems to be a thing now. I didn't really understand it well enough. It was just kind of how I trained. And now – Did you train like that from the beginning? Yeah, just because of the points fighting style is a lot of that shifting. Right. But did you, but back then when you were doing that, were you just doing the martial arts training or were you doing specific plyometrics?

2:25:07With plyometrics. The reason why we did plyometrics more so is because we were also doing a lot of our catas. We did martial gymnastics, so the forms. So I had to learn how to do these crazy kicks and stuff in which I would then, this is why I would try 720s. Not because like I just randomly decided to just throw it out today. because we were drilling them just for kata though and i was like well if i can do it for kata then i could surely i can find the time to throw it when i'm fighting and i would be like brave enough to try and attempt these things in in the points fighting world and yeah that's that there's a couple kicks i keep telling people a couple kicks that even for me i haven't even shown you what i can actually do yet but there's a couple kicks that i know i can land and it's usually it's easier on people that are well-trained.

2:25:59So usually the better fighter, it's actually easier to hit them just because they are very traditional. They're very well-trained. They have patterns that I can pick up on. I'm like, ah, you're going to step this way and you're going to do that. And I always tell people, I call it attaching strings. The first minute of the fight, not too much happens for me because I'm faking this, that, that. But every time I'm faking something, you twitch. I'm like, ah, this means this. yeah you twitch this means this this and i'm just touching strings to you so now i'm moving you you just became pinocchio

2:26:39but that and that's important this is why like you said all those fakes but those fakes mean something yes you know i mean i want i'm getting i'm like you said i'm getting that information from you okay okay yeah he wants that if i do this he wants that okay i see it okay perfect now I got it yeah that's what's so important for a casual fan to understand that there's a whole game taking place that if you could play it you would understand what he's doing but you're just seeing movement random movement you're like hit him hit him why don't you hit him meanwhile if you knew you'd be watching something beautiful yeah exactly you're watching you know a dance yeah yeah a snake charming yeah that's part of the identity man it's part of the identity I try to help people though but yeah Do you know when you're fighting again?

2:27:22Have they given you any kind of an idea? Like I said, I pushed out information. I keep chasing it up to find out, and I haven't really heard too much back. They're announcing some fights now, right? That's what I'm saying. It feels like things are slowly starting to happen. Still waiting. So Protas is going to fight Leon Edwards. Yeah, that's been confirmed. So 170, which is what you're looking at the most, right? Yeah, I want to get back. I know I'm big now. You can make it, though. I've seen you make it. I can make it. I want to get back down. And you just giant advantages at 170. Yeah, yeah, I want to get back down to 170.

2:27:51Just because, like I said, I feel like, I think JDM's a great, an amazing fighter. I just feel stylistically I can beat him. Well, it's a very good style for stand-up for you. Yeah. That's for sure. I mean, he's very complete. Very complete. Yeah, he's very, very good. Yeah, very complete. I really like his style. And very smart. You can tell he's very smart. Like, yeah, as in specific to the opponent, he's like, okay, yeah. But like I said, that's one of the advantages. It's like you're not going to have, it's going to be very difficult for you, even as smart as you are to figure that out. Well, that's why it's exciting for you with any stand-up fighter.

2:28:24As soon as you're fighting a guy who likes to stand up, it's like, are you sure? Yeah, yeah. Are you sure you like to stand up? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I tell people this all the time. Welcome to this new thing that you've never experienced before. This guy you can't even touch. I make these guys wrestlers, man. I make all these stand-up guys wrestlers. And they always, everyone's like, I'm going to strike with you. Well, listen, brother, I can't wait to see you in there again. I'm a giant fan. I'm so happy you're at the UFC now. Yes, yes. I know you do a lot of stuff online, so tell people how to find you.

2:28:50Yeah, so again, it's all the social media, Michael Venom page, everything, Instagram. I don't really do Twitter as much or X, sorry. My Facebook, YouTube, I'm doing a lot of stuff. ITM, actually, I'm doing a film company. I always try to set myself up for the next stage. My creative mind won't stop. Do you want to make movies? I'm making movies. Really? I've already made two short movies. Wow. And again, the same. Congratulations. Thank you. That's awesome. Thank you. Thank you. And I want to get into acting as well. What are they about? So the first one was actually about an athlete's mindset.

2:29:28One thing that I find with films, I think people are lazy watchers nowadays. They find just explosion, explosion, action, action, action, and crap storyline. But I want story telling again. And this one is just more about an athlete's mindset. I did it through the eyes of a runner just because it's slightly different I didn't want to just go down the same lane as MMA did it through the eyes of a runner and just how toxic you'll want and you'll need to be the best how it can look like and again I'll go into that one I'll let people watch that one that one's just called Runner the next one's called Weight and it's kind of about what anxiety can look like from a position of waiting for good news and a position of waiting for bad news and how the parallels work and look almost identical.

2:30:22So you're literally watching two point of views. So these two.

2:30:40so this dude's just freaking out wait for yeah he's he's that's fucking cool if you're doing things like that thank you man that's very cool yeah like i said i'm a creative mind i need to express it in some way and i know when i leave i'm not going to be one of those guys that retire and want to come back every time i want to come back if i say i'm done then i'm done well that's great and i need something else to go into nothing better yeah yeah having something you look forward too that you actually enjoy and love outside of it yeah yeah yeah because it's hard it's very hard for guys to end it becomes your identity 100 and the thrill you know more than anybody the thrill of doing that is above and beyond almost anything else you'll experience in life my thrill is usually for me anyway it comes from expressing art and i we call it martial artists as much as people see the the the sometimes the blood the knockouts and stuff it's art like we just watched tj dillishaw that was art art that was pure pure art like yeah people don't appreciate that side of it and i'm i love to paint pictures and i'm like how can i continue painting pictures after this stage of my life i'm like okay yeah cool well listen man if you make movies like you can fight i'm in yeah trust me we're doing i believe you i believe you and uh the guy my camera guy kishan lecane he's it just worked the synergies just work he's directing films like he's done it for 20 years and he's just unbelievable.

2:32:04That's awesome. Whereas we're going to do some magical things. I love hearing stuff like that. I really do. I really do. And I got a, sorry, like I said, I got a gift for you anyway. What do you like? Red or red or black? You can have both if you want. What is it? Just a t-shirt. Oh, nice. And it just, it represents who we are, hands down. Martial arts, there's guys that do this and everyone mocks all the time, but it's obviously my brand. So extra large, large. Large? Yeah, let me see large here. Thank you very much, sir. There you go. Thank you. And then, also, I got, again, I'm into everything, but I got a beef jerky company called Snapdown Snacks for snapping people, wrestling, snapping them down.

2:32:49Snapdown Snacks. So Snapdown or Snackdown and some Snapdown. Oh, beautiful. Thank you very much. All right. Fantastic. Yes, enjoy. Let me know what you think. How do people find that company? Is it a website? Yeah, just Snapdown on... Snapdown Snacks. Yeah, yeah, snacks. Athlete fuel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you're in the UK next, or when you're in the UK next, let me know. I've got a Mexican restaurant as well, Ixchel. Wow, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great. You're invested in all kinds of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We actually had Kendall Jenner's 818 Tequila featuring in there. We're going to have Jason Momoa come in end of this month with his vodka, Mille Vodka.

2:33:31so look at you moving and shaking we're everywhere everywhere alright man I'll see you this weekend thank you for doing this thank you man my pleasure I really enjoyed it I did too thank you bye everybody