JRE MMA Show #171 with Brendan Allen

29:38Oh, God. Yeah, which we didn't know. I just knew it hurt. Like, and to be honest with you, like, I had them before the fight before that, but I didn't know. Like, I was just like, man, it hurts. Like, I thought it was just like a muscle. So I just would roll it out, theragun it. Like, you know, that's what I would do. How many fractures? They said they saw three, but they're small. It was like right where, like, the toe meets the base of your foot. Is it from elbows? I don't know. I don't, it was on my lead foot too. So I was like, I don't even know. Like, I don't teep a lot because I'm scared of, like, stuff like that.

30:11Yeah, but I fought with crazy stuff, man. I tore my whole ACL in half, calves, everything, when I fought Paul Craig. Did you really? Yeah, that calf slicer in half. It just blew your ACL out? Yes. Oh, God. I didn't know. So in the second round, when I go to throw the punch, I think it was Dominic Cruz, he was like, oh, they clipped each other, and they showed the replay, and he hits my hand. He never hit my face or anything. Your knee just buckled. Yeah, it gave. and you can see me reach down to my knee in that moment oh wow it was crazy so afterwards we got that but i was lucky like when it healed it like um it fell to the bone like if they attach like up up here mine just reattached here so i just have a little bit more play and it's still attached luckily really yeah that's how you never got surgery never i was very lucky insane there's like three different mris that show like fine torn half rehealed so it was a partial tail no they told me it was in half it cut in half and then like fell and when it fell i got lucky and it fell on the bone just lower at a lower point and it healed on the bone used to the bone itself what yes how long did it take to do that i don't know the doctor said it could it says it looked like it was torn maybe like a slight tear before and that one finished it and the last mri was probably four or five months ago because i had to get it for something else fused to the bone perfect you can see it clear as day the doctor showed me i was like that's pretty cool did you get stem cells or anything on it yeah i did i did i did do a lot of stem cells uh like through the ufc and stuff they sent me that that probably helped it was going on to you wanna no they sent it to my doctor no they just oh you said oh they just sent it it was nice and they just sent a whole bunch like my doctor was like man look how much they sent i was like i don't know what it's supposed to look like fill it up let's go so we injected that but yeah i fight with all crazy stuff because it's like i don't know i don't know how to pull that's the thing that people need to realize that watch nobody fights at 100 or very few people very very rarely and i just don't know how to how to pull like i've never pulled from one knock on wood i haven't pulled on one fight in my career and i've been pretty pretty messed up i think my worst was when i fought im evolved to be honest physically i was like like as far as like how my body was, was pretty good.

32:27But I didn't realize like how much of a toll because I like have a thyroid problem. And I, I went years without getting it checked. And for like, a while, I was feeling like real sluggish, real tired. No sex drive, nothing like, I didn't want to get out of bed. And my weight was just steady growing up for the first time in my life. At that point, I hit 220. And I was like, what is going on? Like, I'm still training, I'm eating clean. And anyway, I went to a specialist in Florida and they tested everything like T3, T4. And I never had T3 checked ever. And it was like seven times the normal value, whatever that was supposed to be.

33:06I have it on a paper, whatever. They gave me that. And they're like, Hey man, I'm going to let you know. I was, I was fighting in three, three or four weeks in France. And they were like, Hey, that's going to take a month and a half, two months to regulate and fully settle out. I was like, I don't got that kind of time. Just give me enough to where my weight will come down because I wasn't losing anything. They're like, it's going to do that. Don't worry. Within a week or two, that's going to happen. I'm still pretty tired, but I just kept pushing. We went to London first, stayed there a week because it was cheaper for us than going to France because my friend had family there.

33:39Then we went to France and then I was still feeling tired. That was the first camp in my life I couldn't do more than two and a half rounds, the whole camp. Really? I, I, Bysenger was the only person that I had to train with. Greg was hurt. Um, other guys were out. So I had Bysenger every day. I paid him to, to train with me every day whenever I wanted sparring anything and, um, ask him, I do good for the first round halfway through the second. After that, I was dead, like dead. And I'm still hitting my runs, my lifts, every training session. I'm doing everything normal, but man, it was terrible.

34:18So the fight comes and, um, they, the, the commission kind of like did super weird stuff. Like I made weight and then like, Oh, you're getting drug tested. I'm like, okay, no problem. They're like, no, no, no. You're going to get drug tested now. Not the night of the fight. Like normal. I was like, what? I was like, I literally just cut weight. Like I don't got to pee. I'm just now drinking fluid. They're like doesn't matter you can go to your room i was like all right i'll wait for a couple minutes i waited for like 10 minutes i was like hey man i'm just gonna go to my room try to sleep and they were like uh no we don't have enough people you need to stay here i stayed there for two hours they did uh finally i peed just barely peed and they did two vials of blood and they they got mad because they did that one they put on and press the gravity one and they couldn't get enough like and they were like because you're dehydrated exactly do you think they were fucking with you because you were fighting in France against a French guy?

35:10It was me and Moicano. We were the—us two and one other person, American. Was that when Moicano was fighting Benoit Saint-Denis? Yes, sir. He bitched about the same thing, but somehow he had— They were fucking with you guys. Them two were up sleeping in their room, chilling. Oh, that's so— But it's not an excuse. It does not have to be an excuse. That's so dirty. It was frustrating, but that's why, like, when— I still think Yves Roval's a cool guy, you know? Like, he's deserved his title shot. I think he's fully earned it, don't get me wrong. But I want to fight him again where it's like I sparred him like a month after that.

35:41He was at the gym and I showed up at the gym and we sparred. We had a good time. But I still think he's a nice guy. I think he deserved a spot. But I just want to fight him where everything's equal. And like you said, we're not going to come in 100%. He's not. I'm not. Fine. I don't care if I got a messed up hand, foot, whatever. But just an equal plate. Well, it just sounds like you were compromised. Look, a good example of that was Piotr Jan in his first fight with Murab. Man, he looked great this weekend. Fuck! What a master class. He looked great. I was so surprised. When you're going to fight a guy like Murab, that is the master class.

36:16Put on a clinic. Honestly, I didn't think he was going to be able to do that for five rounds. I thought he'd have one, maybe max two, and I thought Murab was just going to do what Murab does. I was so wrong. Bro, his training camp must have been hell. Had to. Had to be hell. Had to. Had to be hell. I mean, he must have done some. I mean, it looked like it. I saw some videos of it. He was doing some wild strength and conditioning and plyometrics. He knew what he was in for. That's the thing. If you're going to fight a guy like Merab, it's like, you know what the mountain is. You ready to climb it?

36:45For sure. And the first time they fought, apparently he had a fucked up right hand. That's what I heard. And he couldn't grapple with it and he couldn't throw punches with it. So I rewatched the fight after he said that. I was like, oh, he's barely using it. Like barely using his right hand. Made sense, right? Totally makes sense. And then also psychologically, if you only got one hand, everything. Now you have to think. Right. You can't really throw combinations. You have to think. You want to know how tough Uriah Faber is? Uriah Faber, when he fought Mike Brown, he broke both hands. Both hands.

37:13I remember that fight. And he was throwing elbows. Both hands. He was one of my favorite fighters. He was a guy that I wanted to be just like. You could ask my dad. He'll laugh to this day. I was like, Dad, I don't want to be like my dad's tall. Everyone's tall. I don't want to be tall. I want to be like him. He was like, what? Because that was the fight. He was a need to get ready for the holidays fast. order all your seasonal essentials from Dollar General on Uber Eats. Plus, get 40 % off orders of$20 or more with the code GENERAL40. Whether you're looking for candy canes, hot chocolate mix, lights, or a small army of nutcrackers to get into the holiday spirit, Uber Eats is here to deliver everything Dollar General has to offer this season.

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39:13And right now, you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Beast. He was a beast back in the day. You know, by the time he was fighting in the UFC, I kind of think he had had some of his best fights already. Like in the WEC days. Dude, amazing fights. He was a killer. I still remember the Mike Brown coming out party. jose aldo that was another example of how tough he is when he fought jose aldo and jose aldo killed his leg dude killed his leg it is the worst after fight leg i've ever seen in my life other than austin hubbard you ever see austin hubbard he got compartment syndrome and had to have his whole leg sliced open what from the top to the bottom to alleviate pressure and drain some of the fluids no way it's the nastiest injury i've ever seen google uh excuse me look up uh Austin Hubbard images of, I forget the fight.

40:17Oh, there it is. Look at his leg. That black thing, that's his leg open. No way. Yeah, that's his tissue. Oh, my days. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Look at that. Oh, my gosh. How insane is that? Dude, he trains in Chicago with me. Oh, when I ask him. Look at that image. I got to ask him. How fucking insane is that image? That's his tissue underneath there, man. Oh, my days. Look, you have to mature content. You have to click a link in Instagram to be able to see it. Holy cow. How nuts is that, man? Dude, that's gnarly. So there's a drain, that tube that you're seeing right there. What that is attached to is that drain that's letting liquid drip out of his leg.

40:55So compartment syndrome is so bad that sometimes people, when they don't get it treated, they have to get their leg amputated. Really? Oh, yeah. So that was just from leg kicks from a fight? Just from leg kicks from a fight. Wow. I'm trying to remember who he fought. Jesus. Can we find out who he fought? Yeah, it was a year ago. Oh, more than a year ago. This picture was 325 weeks ago. Yeah, but the fight was more than a year ago. It was quite a while ago. But what? Is it like a big bruise? Well, it says 325 weeks ago. Oh, 300. Yeah, fucking. 325 weeks ago. Yeah. So it was quite a while ago. See if you can find out who he fought.

41:36Boy, it's just like your leg just stays like bruised and swollen. Not just bruised. It's like your tissue breaks down. It fills up with fluid. Damn. Yeah. And then also what happens, I guess, when you get that much damage in your tissue is like your whole body has to process all of that. So it was Kyle Propolick. I don't remember that. So it was UFC Vancouver. Passed out on an elevator. Had to be rushed to the hospital. That is crazy. I never knew that. Yeah. See him at the gym all the time. He's a nice guy, too. So they had to cut his leg open to reduce the pressure. So that's what that image is.

42:11Damn. Nuts. That is crazy. Yeah. That was nuts. And then Uriah's leg, honestly, in the fight, looked worse than that. I mean, Uriah might have had compartment syndrome and didn't get it drained. Because I know he spent a lot of time in hyperbaric chambers after the fight. I want to try that. It's great. I want to try that. It's really amazing. If you have an aura ring and you go into the hyperbaric chamber, it will tell you that you're recovered more. Really? Yeah, than a normal day. Yeah. Oh, you have a very high level of recovery today. Yeah. I'm going to try that for sure. Oh, it's legit. Yeah.

42:43All my friends have been like, like Jared Gordon, like got one for one of his fights. And he was telling me like how different it makes him feel and stuff. Like for me, as far as I go, it's like I just started like really like using more supplements. Like I think the deal that Thorne made with UFC really helped me. because like I started using there and what really helped is I was always scared to go on creatine because like growing up my dad would get so big and he would like back in the day they'd have like all these different things like oh if you use too much creatine it's bad for you bad for your kidneys or whatever uh turns out all that's bullshit exactly yeah and creatine is fantastic for and that's that's been like the main thing like I can really feel like how how different my body recovers like how more almost energized in a way you know I wake up and like Like when I go to lift and stuff, I feel like way better.

43:28So like. What's even great for your mind? Creatine is fantastic just for cognitive support. I need everything for that. I've been getting hit in the head since I was 13 years old. So, you know, yeah, it don't. Sometimes it don't function properly, you know. It's funny, me and my wife were just joking the other day. We were like, I was like, babe, you do that on purpose, don't you? She's like, what? I was like, you try to use memory against me. You'll wait till I forget something. Then you'll be like, oh, remember you said this? And I'm like, I didn't say that. I have to die on that hill because it's like, I don't remember.

43:58But I don't tell her that. You know, I'm just like, no, I didn't. I know I didn't. You know, so, but yeah, that was a great relationship that's helped. Like, you know, UFC's done, like, a lot of, like, made a lot of good partnerships that's helped, like, the athletes. But for me personally, like, the Thorne relationship. Yeah, Thorne makes great stuff. Yeah, and they're so tested. If you get in a hyperbaric chamber, it'll help your memory as well. Hyperbaric chamber is just good for overall recovery for everything. There was even a study out of Jerusalem that shows it lengthened telomeres. They did this process where they had, you took 60 sessions of 90 minutes over the course of 90 days.

44:34So 60 hour and a half sessions over the course of 90 days. And it showed it lengthened people's telomeres. Really? Yeah, that was equal to a 20-year age difference. So, yeah, 20-year age difference. So it's like your telomeres as you get older, that's like one of the clear marks of biological aging. is how long your telomeres are. That's good to know. Yeah, it indicates, you know, like as you get older, they shrink. And there's a few things that they've shown that will increase telomeres, but nothing as dramatically that I've ever heard other than the hyperbaric chamber. That was probably the best one I've ever heard of, yeah.

45:08Man, I've been like trying to learn more about recovery because I'm kind of like. How old are you now? I'll be 30 in a couple weeks. Yeah, that's when you got to start thinking about it. When you're 22, you're just a wild man. You wake up in the morning with rock-hard boners like everything's fine You just show up to training you don't even stretch now. I'm like yeah, wait a minute guys Wait a minute the thing is even if you're 22 you should stretch that's just a full ignorance God it's so there's so many guys that can't I remember I was talking to I don't wanna say his name because he's a good guy But he's like a world-class MMA fighter and I was trying to show him something We're talking about like guard technique.

45:43He's like I can't I'm not flexible. I can't get my leg like that And they go, what do you mean not flex? I go, why aren't you flexible? He goes, I don't stretch. I go, how do you not stretch? You're a world class fighter who tries to kick people in the head and you don't stretch? That's so crazy. He's like, it's boring. I'm like, okay, a lot of things are boring. Like that you don't stretch is so crazy because like anytime someone says I'm not flexible. I'm like, how do you know? Right, you know like you don't know if you're flexible until you start stretching for a long fucking time Right, you can get flexible.

46:21It's like I don't have any cardio. Well, you can get cardio. That's a choice Fucking work get do cardio and you'll have cardio. This is crazy, but you're really flexible Yeah, but it's like I'd never stop, but I started when I was little I I developed flexibility while my body was still maturing Which is very fortunate because you're not like stiff yet. It's like you can get flexible, but it's I'm 58 years old It's not easy to stay flexible. I just keep fucking stretching. I didn't know you was I'm old as shit, dude I didn't know that. Yeah, you're my dad. I'm old dude. Good shape though. Thank you.

46:54I keep up. I'm scared of death I'm not scared of death. Death is inevitable. What I'm scared of is being feeble, like where you can't do things anymore. You can't go on a hike. You can't use your body. Like I work out just as hard now as I did when I was 30. I make my wife always worried because I'm like – I don't know. I don't honestly know if I mean it or not. I'm like, I don't want to be 80 years old. Like for instance, like – You kind of not say things like that around ladies sometimes. They don't like – She's like, no, don't say that. I need you. We're a team. And I'm like, babe, look what I do for a living.

47:30Look what I've done. My body's not like that. And I don't know. Maybe I say that, but then I get out of working out for like I haven't worked out in like two months. And I'm like, I'm itching like a freaking fiend. I'm like. So when you say I haven't worked out, you don't do anything for two months? I haven't done anything. I went in the gym twice. I went in the gym twice. I did one run and one lift. and then we found out my foot had fractures and they sent me this foot boot and then the doctor's like you don't have to wear that but don't do anything that puts a lot of pressure on your foot and then i've been traveling like at the end of the year i travel a lot going hunting and stuff and you know like like like your meat eater thing like yep i love that kind of stuff so um i'm not on that big of a scale and that nice of like animals i'm just like just a simple whitetail kind of guy but you know i love hunting whitetails i love it i got a little property in illinois and Oh, that's great, man.

48:20Yeah. So I can't believe that you could take a whole couple of months off with nothing. Just don't do nothing. Crazy, right? Yeah. I'm very blessed. Well, it's probably smart. It's probably smart to do. It's good and bad. I've heard a few people do that. It's good and bad. So I only do it this much at the end of the year because it's hunting season and holidays and my kids' birthdays. Kind of my kids' birthdays are right now or back to, well, shit, I guess all the time. They're back to back to back. So it's like, all right, we'll do that. We travel. But it's only end of the year. Usually I'll take a couple weeks off, maybe a month max, depending on my injuries after a fight.

48:54But then I'm back at it. But it's hard for me at home. I'm a full-time dad and a full-time husband at home right now. I've got so many kids, you know. I'm away for so long. How many kids do you have? I'm about to have five. Wow. Yeah. Five and you're not even 30 yet. Yes, sir. I have two with my ex. I'm about to have two with my current wife. And she has a son from her previous. Wow. Wow. Yeah. So, and he's 14. My daughter's just turned six and four. My son's about to turn one, and then we'll have another one in about a month and a half. So you got a lot of work to do. Yeah, but it's nice. It's hard right now.

49:32You know, kids have schedules, and now, like, my little girls do jiu-jitsu. My stepson was playing football for the first time this year, and he's a basketball player because my wife was a pro basketball player. So he's always got something going on. But at my new house that I'm working to build, I have, like, two gyms, full gyms. So, like, I don't have to leave. Oh, that's nice. I can bring people in to train. I have my full cage that I used to have for my promotion. Well, even if you realize I only have 40 minutes before I have to leave, but I can get a half-hour workout on real quick. And you can really burn it out for a half an hour just to keep the machine oiled.

50:06Exactly. But, you know, the argument about taking time off, it does reset the brain. Like, you know who used to do that? I know he's not a fighter. but Ronnie Coleman. Ronnie Coleman is crazy as he used to lift when he was Mr. Olympia, and he was one of the heaviest lifters of all time. He's a freak. He's a freak. Ronnie, when he would get done with Mr. Olympia, he would be like, I'm not doing shit. He wouldn't do anything for a couple months. Like no training at all. And they'd be like, nothing at all? He'd go, nope, nothing, nothing. He goes, I've got to reset, got to reset. But imagine being so driven that you could train the way that guy trained, and yet so wise that you're like, I'll get it back.

50:45Let me just like, let me just chill. Let me just chill. And it wasn't like it turned him into a lazy person. Like that's what everyone's afraid of. Oh, I'm going to lose this momentum. I'm doing so good. Everything's going so great. I'm working so hard. I want to keep working hard. Because we've all had, if you live a life, you're going to have ups and you're going to have downs. And like you were going through your thyroid issue, there's going to be times where you don't have a lot of energy. So when you're feeling good, you want to keep going. Right. And this guy gets to Mr. Olympia, but he has the wisdom to go, you know what?

51:16I can get that back. Right now, let's just not do shit and let this mind recover. Let this stress just go away. Let it slip out of my life. That's what I try, man. I kind of learned, like, because I always have traveled for camp since I was probably three or four and one as a pro. three or four fights in as a pro i was i was traveling i was going to roof and sport for a long time i stayed there for a long time then i went to florida for a long time and now i'm not chicago and um always what jimmy are now uh valley flow oh okay like war room with below muhammad below yeah so and that's been a great change yeah man he's so good both the brother he got a little brother oh really he's a stud he's a stud i believe it if it comes out of that family yeah Mondays is a beast.

52:05He's a stud. The little brother is a stud. He helped me for Marvin's fight, I think. And then Nacho helped me a little bit for this one, this last one. How did you choose going to Chicago? I've known Bilal since Rufus Sport. And obviously we stayed in contact. When we see each other, it's like we never haven't seen each other. And he's always told me, bro, just come down. Just come check it out. You don't have to stay or nothing. Stay at my house, but you don't have to move here or nothing. Just come check it out. So I watched his rise and what he does and his work ethic and his team. And after the fluffy loss, like, I just – I kind of sat back, had some conversations with people that are really close to me and explained, like, what was going on with me, like, mentally and where I felt.

52:51And Bilal was one of the people I talked to, and he's like, I know what the problem is. And everyone that I talked to, which wasn't a lot, they all said exactly the same thing. So I was like, B, can I come train with you? What was the problem? Complacency. I know, like, who I can train with and not go hard. I'm the coach of my own thing. Like, I'm running my whole camp, basically. I go to Wagner. Oh, you were running your whole camp? Basically. I'd be, like. You go to Wagner's for jiu-jitsu? Yeah, I'd go to Wagner's for jiu-jitsu. I'd be at Kill Cliff, but I'd be in the corner doing my thing because we had the Russian coach over here teaching some crazy stuff that don't make no sense.

53:23What do you mean? Like, they'd be teaching some stuff off the wall that would never work. Really? Yeah. But the Russian kids that were in the classes, they got young guys like Ansar, Nikita, Vysengor. He wasn't even there. Those guys, they were like, come over here. Let's do something else. They have real MMA knowledge because they fight and they've learned from all the guys from where they're from. So who are these Russian coaches that are teaching a wild shot? There was just one, man. You don't have to say his name. Yeah, he's not there no more. But he was a legit coach? He never fought. Okay.

53:59Did he fight in anything? Never. Kickboxing? Nope. Nothing? I don't know if he even competed in wrestling, to be honest with you, ever. I don't know. Okay. Is he, like, does he spar with people? Nope. How old is he? I would say in his 30s, I would say. What? Really? I would say, yeah, I would guess. And he's a coach? But he's coaching unorthodox stuff? Like, what kind of stuff? Like, stuff against the wall, but it was like, for instance, I don't remember what it was. It was against the wall. I was going with my friend AJ, Aaron Jeffries. and uh he it was some takedown off the wall right aj couldn't get it i was like bro this and i don't say it out loud because i don't want no problems you know like right i'm gonna just go with the flow and mind my business but you know i've been doing it long enough to worry it's like you realize this move's probably not gonna work for my body type or my my game but i'll try it right and so anyway he was doing it and aj's like bro i don't get it i was like yeah because this ain't gonna work bro he's like what i was like it's not gonna work i'm telling you So he calls the coach over and he was like how can you do the guy looks at me he goes He's telling him then he looks at me go stop it

55:31Me? that's because this shit ain't gonna work i told y 'all y 'all don't listen to me i just walked off oh that's not good you know so i just walk off and i was like i ain't taking this guy become a coach there sticking around and translating oh no you know sometimes there's those weird guys like that i'm not saying that this guy's like that but yeah there are some weird guys like that become parasitic you know they're like friends with a guy who's a really good fighter and then they're always there and then they want to be a part of the team somehow and then they start contributing or they stop maybe running conditioning drills or something like why is this guy running conditioning drills that's exactly how it went oh that's the worst exactly how it went literally there's weird parasitic relationships in any elite like thing whether it's sports i see it in comedy there's some comedians that have weird parasitic friends that wind up you know becoming a producer on their thing and there's just some guy who just does like like a lamprey clinging to the bottom of a shark it got weird for a little while especially at the end it did like when i was still there um with that whole thing because even some of the other coaches started to catch on because at kill cliff you know sometimes we have a lot of guys fighting like all over the place so coaches would be gone and right you try to you know figure that situation out so he'd step in and try to help and it just got weird but like again i'm i'm not the kind of person that really cause a conflict like i'd rather just like if like just for instance if you're causing something some type of energy with me, I'm going to just move over here and just stay out your way.

56:58That's smart. The world needs more people like you. Well, my younger self would have, I want a conflict. I'm going to show you. Right, of course. But as you got wiser, you realize, also, you're an elite professional mixed martial arts fighter. You ain't got shit to prove to somebody. That's kind of how I feel now. I see some of these younger kids. I see some of these younger kids now, and I'm just like, I'm going to just stay over here. It gets people hurt. it ruins your life and that's what it can ruin your life i don't want that to happen because like i have kids i have a wife i have a good life i live very nice like as far as like my lifestyle like i'm here with you right now you know also it's fucking pointless i've seen bar fights where you know there's young guys and they just like see an opportunity they want to prove something and i'm like i just want to tell them like hey man one day you're going to be 35 you're going to be looking back on this day and maybe it's the day you got stabbed maybe it's the day you got shot you know maybe it's the day you got knocked the fuck out your head bounced off the concrete and you'll never be the same person again yeah like exactly what you said it's just not worth it like you know kevin james the the comedian yeah he's come to the gym oh that's that's awesome he trains a lot good friend of mine i've been friends of mine for 30 years when i first met him he told me a story when he was bouncing when he was bouncing at a bar in long island one of his friends there was a bouncer and some drunk kid was starting shit and he knocked this kid out and the kid fell down and hit his head and died and he wound up doing time he went to jail for manslaughter one of my best friends got stabbed in the face in new orleans because he was he didn't even know he was talking to this dude's chick and he didn't know right he didn't know like she didn't say nothing she came up to him he was just at the bar dude came and stabbed him in the face broke his jaw uh stabbed him and ran he has a he has a nice scar it's he's older now so it's kind of went away but like through his beard, but wired his jaw shut.

58:49He was messed up for a while, you know, in the face. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you've got something to say, sell, or share with the world, you need a legit online presence. Me, I use Squarespace to power my website. It's easy to use. And with their AI-enhanced website builder and built-in tools for booking, payments, email, all of it, you can actually run your business, not just build a site. Go to squarespace.com slash rogan for a free trial and when you are ready to launch use the code rogan to get 10 % off your first purchase of a website or domain. And someone trying to stab you in the face is easily trying to stab you in the neck.

59:32Exactly. You just got lucky. You just got lucky to hit that jaw and not your fucking carotid artery. Oh my god. I watch a video of these guys in London and they're yelling at each other and squaring off each other back and forth and back and forth And then finally get out and one guy just pulls out a fucking knife and slices this dude's neck and this dude is just squirting out of his neck and he tries to fight for a second then he just gets woozy and and he's just Squirting as he goes down. I don't know what happened I'm assuming he died because I'm looking at the amount of blood loss if someone didn't jump on that and compress it And even if you did the carotid artery is like such a significant amount of blood that's going through there depending on I guess the damage so stupid I've always heard this story obviously you know how stories are but I've heard from a couple of different people I have like a great uncle somewhere along the line he passed away before I was alive he was in a bar I know right where the place is the building's still there to this day he was in the bar he was sitting down having some drinks with a friend I don't know the relationship between him and the guy the guy that walked up behind him slit his throat he missed the carotid arteries both of them by like not even a quarter of an inch like not even an eighth of an inch he missed both of them so it was just here oh he chased the guy out almost beat him to death and then almost died because he couldn't breathe like oh god but almost beat the guy to death almost almost died so two people almost died bro nightclubs are so bad i've never been a club i hate like a group of people i hate it i get very offsetting there's too many people on coke there's too many people that are stupid there's too many people that want to like bro i fucking see red and you know there's too many dummies when i was a kid when i was 21 years old i was at a bar and i watched this guy hit a guy in the face with a heineken bottle out of no out of nowhere over nothing i was standing by the bar and there's just two guys they were as close as jamie is to me and they were talking to each other like loud voices but nothing crazy like no physical shit and this guy just takes a heineken bottle off the ball and smashes it on his face and there was blood everywhere this guy was just just leaking all over his face i was like that guy's face is destroyed for the rest of his life over literally nothing literally nothing it's crazy man it's just there's too many people out there that are fucking stupid man and you get sucked into their gravity you know you're like the guys that like they're like uh if they know who you are they'll be like oh you can fight i can shoot i'm like all right so can i yeah congratulations let's not fight each other or shoot each other that's my hi my name is brendan that's my thing now i'm like bro i don't want to fight or shoot you just leave me alone and leave my family alone and we're good bro i don't i don't want no problems with nobody well the problem is there's too many people out there that haven't proven themselves they don't have a thing in their life that gives them a challenge all the time where they're proving themselves so every time they go out they're trying to prove themselves every time they go out they're trying to puff their chest out and be billy badass and it's it's so dangerous and here's where you don't see that trained fighters dude i used to bounce that a little like something small and uh i needed the money obviously and i will never forget man this little dude he had to be like this tall short and fat he was i don't know how tipsy he was i don't know right but all the guys know that i was fighting i was lfa at the time and um they're like They always told me, hey, man, don't worry about hitting nobody.

1:03:01If someone swings at you, I got you. Or just hit them and say I did it. And I was like, I'm good, bro. I'm good. I just smile. So it doesn't get you in trouble? Yeah, they were super cool, right? Who knows if that would have really been how it went. I don't know, you know. But anyway. If you really fucked somebody up and there was a lawsuit, I guarantee you that they dropped your name. Dude, there was a bartender there. He freaking, I watched it with my own two eyes in the front. This dude and him got into it. The guy slipped because he pushed him and he slipped. It was a little wet. dude he soccer kicked him so hard in the face so hard i was like he got arrested for that oh god you know but that but that little kid he swung at me and i don't even know if he hit me or hit my hand he hit something right and i'm laughing i'm laughing i'm like i couldn't believe it like he had that cocaine courage he must have i'm laughing i'm literally doing this and because i was gonna stick him with the right but he was so little like i was like so crazy no way and How I saw the punch come, I was like, don't do it.

1:03:59There are some people out there that have no idea how to fight, and yet they still try to fight. They have no weapon. They don't have a good punch. They don't have a background in wrestling. They don't have a damn thing. And yet they'll still decide they want to fight someone and just hope in today's day and age. How can you hope that people don't know how to fight? I think if you run into 10 guys, one of them can fight today. Right. It's probably the most in human history in terms other than like Spartan days, most in human history. And even back then, how good was their technique? Exactly. You know what I'm saying?

1:04:32It's crazy. They probably didn't even know about calf kicks. It's like my dad grew up boxing, right? So my dad, he would always tell me like growing up, he was a little bitch. He was like, I used to get my ass kicked until he had to move in with his grandfather. and his grandfather, World War II vet, shot twice, grew up boxing. Um, probably the most rugged man that you'll ever meet. I met him once before he passed away. His voice was so gruff. Like he's a man's man, you know, like one of those doesn't say nothing really. And, uh, so he raised my dad and he used to step outside, like kind of mess with him box.

1:05:13Like he put him in boxing, but he knocked my dad out one time. And my dad was like, you know, well, man, come on, let's test it stepped on his foot and slept him and uh but anyway so like when he was in high school thing to do to your kid dude he said my dad said he didn't care about nothing my dad said he literally watched his smash his finger flat with a hammer the nerves flew out like they were still attached they flew out oh my hit his head on uh throwing uh barrels of hay in the loft smoked his head on a railroad spike that was in the wood uh cracked his skull he didn't know till two days later they said if he would have waited a couple like 12 more hours he would have been dead because all the swelling on his brain they had to cut his brain uh his skull off to let the fluid come out oh god crazy old just stubborn old man you know that's crazy dude your grandson though sleeping like that dude he said my dad said crazy my dad said he he said we were messing around he's like all right like quit messing with me he always told him that leave me alone he kept on kept on he stepped on his foot and my dad said quit stepping he said that's all he remembers oh old school trick Like, slept in.

1:06:13My dad said when he woke up, he had the worst, like, migraine. And he was on the porch drinking a thing of, I think, tea. And he was like, hey, get your ass up and go clean the dog pen. Get to work. That's how it was. Those dudes who came up through World War II, that's a different kind of human being. Yeah, you know, so it's like. That's a different kind of human being. Like, that's just kind of like how my dad was. So, like, when he got to high school, like, he wasn't the kind to go look for trouble. But he was the kind of person, like, my dad told me as well. like you stick up for the people that can't stick up for themselves yeah or if someone fucks with you like do what you gotta do just don't like nowadays he's like don't put your hands like don't throw a punch at them first unless they get an arm for each then you throw a punch first don't ever let someone hit you like you too you could just choke somebody yeah now but it's like hurt him you could just put him to sleep and that's more i'm a good hugger so it's like i prefer that but my dad's like mean man like he's different like and he like he was in the military and he boxed when he was overseas for like 75 bucks because he'd send all his money home to us so it's like like i don't know like people don't know i'm raised i come from something like that's what i feel like when i fight like i'm different like i i honestly i uh i was telling myself that in the marvin fight in between rounds like going into the third because my dad and my brother were both there in attendance for the first time like my brother hadn't been in any of my fights since probably my second pro fight because of his injury and uh so like my i watched my buddy costello fight for the PFL belt.

1:07:41And he said after the fight, he said word for word, he's like, I was raised by a warrior. He raised two warriors. I'm a fucking warrior. And he's like, that's what I told myself. And so that stuck in my head till the fight, till my fight. So in the third round, everyone was like, oh, he falls off in the third. And that was something my corner was, because that was my first time in Chicago. So Horacio looked at me in between rounds and he was like, hey, let's go. Let's restart it. He said something else and I was like I'm good just get out of the way like you know that's it's kind of one of those moments where it's like you're living in the moment but I don't know well I think just having a coach is really important it's really important especially having an elite coach having a coach that's really on top of it you know yeah I guess a safe sayud uh you know Faraz Zahabi Duke Rufus having someone who's like really on it really watching you really knows what you need He really knows when you need to back off because the fact that you did so well and that you were coaching yourself is kind of fucking crazy Well, when I say I had coaches.

1:08:48Yeah, exactly, but I didn't have a main coach. Yes, sir. Exactly That's the difference. So for people that don't know okay, if you listen to this and just interested in MMA generally, there's a striking coach Usually they have some sort of a Muay Thai or kickboxing background. You generally have wrestling coaches and you generally have jiu-jitsu coaches. And if you're a really good gym, you got one guy who knows how to put it all together. And those are the maestros. Da-da-da. Those are the guys who are like conducting the entire orchestra. And they know you. And if a good guy knowing his fighter is like an artist, and I think you can only have a certain amount of people that you're working really closely with because it's a very involved and intensive job.

1:09:28Like Eric Nixick. That's a guy, he gets down into the nitty-gritty of every fucking thing you guys are doing. He's watching you. He knows what you need. He knows what you don't need. It's also you got a guy who could just push it off to him. He knows what to do. He's going to give you game plans in between rounds. Okay, this is working, but we need more of this. He does this all the time. The reason why he's getting away with it is because of that. Get it in your head. Go out there. When I hear guys and the guy's losing and they get no technical advice and they start getting, go fuck him up. You got to fuck him up.

1:09:58You got to put hands on him. And I'm like, oh, my God, tell him what to do. He knows how to fight. Get on top. Tell him. Get on top. Tell him what to do. Stand up. And I get it. You only have a minute. I get it. And I get it. Everybody's panicking if things are going wrong. I get it. But my God. It's been different. Having a good coach, having like a Ferasa hobby type dude in your corner who just really understands what you need to do. So fucking important. It's been one of the best changes that I have because I ain't going to lie. I'm not the easiest person to deal with. Like I like to be very in control of things that I can control.

1:10:33and I know myself. I've done a lot. I've been around a lot. So I know, hey man, I'm feeling it today. My body's kind of done. No, no, no, no. Go, go, go. 100%. Do you monitor all your shit? Do you monitor your resting heart rate? Yeah, now. Usually I have my whoop on because I used to have the aura, but I couldn't train with it. Right. But I just took it off because I was training jujitsu. Aura's a little bit of a problem when you lift weights too. Exactly. I pinch my finger so bad. Well, you ever seen sheathing injuries you ever seen those What is it where it rips the skin of your finger off the first time I ever saw one?

1:11:10I never saw them in person, but the first time I ever saw one it was somebody Who did jujitsu and they did jujitsu with a ring on like a wedding ring and just fucking Mangled their finger well it's called sheathing because it pulls all your skin off the bone like a sheath you would I've seen that yeah, I didn't know that's what it was called. That's what it's called. It's like a sheathing. Yeah Here's some in some of these injuries. I thought like oh Oh, look at that. Dude. Ew. The first time I ever seen it was someone in a gi. A gi. It got caught in a gi. Oh, my God. Really? Like you said, took the skin off.

1:11:40Yeah, he had the red ring, and I think he made the grip on the sleeve. And when the guy pulled, it caught that fat, that little muscle or whatever right there. And ripped his fucking skin off his finger? The whole skin. I've never seen that. Dude, it was so nasty. Like you said, I was like, oh, my God. So now I am 100 % sure that I don't wear my wedding ring. That's why it's tattooed on my finger because when I go to camp, I don't wear a wedding ring. She knows when I get to camp, I take it off. I put it in my truck. When camp is over and I get home from the fight, I put it back on. I don't have mine on now because I just came from the gym, but I used to have a silicone one.

1:12:14Well, not used to. I have a silicone one that I use all the time that I can work out with it. I can do anything with it. Oh, interesting. Yeah. What is that company? Ridge? Is that what it is? No, that's the wallet company. Is that what it is? Shit, they're making all kinds of stuff. They got luggage and everything. It's a good one. It looks like an aura ring, too. But it's made out of silicone. So even if you catch it on something, it's no big deal. But even that, I forget which coach it was. I forget which coach. It's like an elite jujitsu coach. He goes, I refuse to let a guy even train with that.

1:12:47He goes, I've seen too many injuries. Too many injuries where your finger just gets mangled by having that fucking stupid thing on there. That's nasty. That's like... Groovering. Groove. That's it. I feel like that with knee injuries and dislocations. Oh, dude, you know what creeps me the most is broken shins. When I see that shin check, when the shin snaps, like, ah. If there's ever a fight that I think a guy should have pulled out that didn't, and if I was his friend, I would have told him, you cannot fight. It's Connor when he fought Dustin. The second fight with Dustin, excuse me, the third fight with Dustin when his shin snapped in half, you know, they knew that he had some sort of a hairline fracture on his shin.

1:13:24Really? Yeah. I never knew that he'd already had MRIs and everything they knew something was really wrong with it. Yeah, screw that No, yeah, and he didn't even it didn't even like go shin to knee or anything like that Like it usually snaps. That's how compromised it was if you watch that fight There is one time where Dustin checks it and he checks the kick and he looked at him He pointed at him like I know that hurt you bitch Like he like got in his head now is also after Dustin had just KO'd him in the last fight So this was the third fight. Yeah. And it was weird, man, because in the first fight, it was like, nice guy, Connor.

1:13:58It was like, nice guy, Connor, even after the fight. Like, after the fight, he was being cool. He got KO'd. His leg got fucked up with those calf kicks. And after the fight, he was so respectful. I'm like, look, Connor turned a corner. Not the third one. Not the third one, bro. This episode is brought to you by Poncho. Texas is full of outdoorsmen. But where do they find shirts that deliver performance, comfort, and fit with none of the frill? A company right here in Austin called Poncho. Their shirts are comfortable as hell, they fit right, and they feel like your favorite tee. And you can wear them all day, on the lake, hunting, grilling, whatever.

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1:15:49No wearables required. The Pod 5 Ultra can even detect snoring and then elevate you to stop it. Head over to 8sleep.com slash Rogan and use the code ROGAN to get up to$400 off a Pod 5 Ultra. You still get 30 days to try it at home, and you can return it if you don't like it, but you'll love it. and your body will thank you for investing in better sleep. That's 8sleep.com slash Rogan. Oh, your girl's in my DMs. Oh, bro, it's so funny, but it's like I know where Dustin, he comes from like a same vibe that I come from, and like same things probably bother him. So when he said that, you could see Dustin, like even though he just whooped him, he was like.

1:16:32Crazy thing to say while you're lying there with a broken leg. For sure. A guy could just keep hiding. He took it well, though. You know who took it the best that I've seen personally? Tyrone Spong. When he snapped his in half, he's just sitting there. We talk about this, too. I'm like, bro, how did you sit there just like? He's like, to be honest, I think he said, like, to be honest, I was a little in shock at first. And then I was like, what am I going to do? It is what it is. Yeah, like, what am I going to do? Like, it sucks. That's wise. Yeah, he was a G. That was against Gokan Saki, too. Yeah.

1:17:03That was a kickboxing fight. Yeah, I remember to this day. It's very rare in a kickboxing fight. Isn't it interesting? I think it's way more common in an MMA fight. I've only seen it a couple times in kickboxing. I've seen it. God, thank God. Because of Instagram. Luckily, I get to see every fucking horrific injury that's ever happened. God, I've seen. It seems like I never saw it until one. Who was the first time? Was it Corey Hill? I think it was Corey Hill was the first guy who broke his. And Corey was like a real tall, thin guy. I believe he fought at 145. and he was something crazy, like 6 '3 at 145.

1:17:37He was real tall and skinny. And who did he fight? Jamie will find out. He passed away, right? Yes, he did, unfortunately. He fought in Louisiana a good big because I remember when he passed away, they were doing some stuff for him there. So that was also the referee didn't notice it. Dale? It just says Dale H on the thing. Ooh.

1:18:07Oh, bro, that gets me. So during the fight, the referee didn't notice it, so they kept fighting. And I put my headsets down, and I got up, and I was screaming, stop the fight, stop the fight. The referee didn't notice it. He didn't notice that the guy's leg broke. So they were still scrapping on the ground. I hope that was the end, because how do you not notice that? His leg is literally in a U. It's just a bad angle, you know? you're in the wrong place at the wrong time well looking at where the referee's standing there's actually kind of no excuse is this oh there it is there it is it falls back look yeah

1:18:56you saw it instantly on your monitor i saw it instantly in the cage Oh, dang. I wasn't watching the monitor. I don't even think we had monitors back then. I was just about to ask that question, too. I don't think we had monitors back then. We didn't have monitors for a while. The monitors were my idea. Really? I was like, we have to have monitors. I want to see monitors. I want to see replays. I want to see shit. Yeah. It was early, early in the UFC. I was like, we need monitors. And also, the judges should get fucking monitors, too. Yeah, now it's nice. I'll sit behind you sometime and see it.

1:19:23Actually, now that I'm thinking that, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we did have monitors. Maybe I was asking for other things. Maybe I was asking for monitors for the judges. Like, when did they start having monitors in the UFC? I don't know. But I always try to watch the actual fight. I want to see the actual fight. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I like you get a better view if the cage is there. But, I mean, fuck, man. You're five feet away from the best fights on earth. You want to see it, see it. I don't want to be watching TV. That's crazy. Yeah, you got the best seat in the house. Oh, it's the craziest seat ever.

1:19:52So when did they start doing it? 2011. Is that for judges? Yeah. That was definitely my idea. Or, well, there was other people that had that same idea, but I'm like, you need to do this. Because there were some of them that were so bad, some calls that were so bad. It's like, there's no way these guys are seeing everything. You know, if there's a pillar here and a guy lands an elbow and you're judging and you don't see it, like, what do you do? What do you say? That might have been the most pivotal moment in the fight. Like, what are you doing? You have to see it. The judging thing is crazy, man.

1:20:23Tell me about it. There's judges that don't even train. They've never trained MMA. They don't they don't have any jujitsu skill. They don't know what's going on in the middle of a fight once this lady Leaned over to my friend who was also worked for one of the Commission said what is he doing? No way. Yeah, it was an Americana. It was an a normal move. It was like what is he doing? That's crazy It was either Americana or Kimura. I'm not sure if I remember how that's what he's trying to bite him What? I don't know. But imagine this is a person that's in charge. So the really horrible thing about it, a bad decision, it's not just that you get a loss on your record, but you get half your paycheck, which I think is really fucked up.

1:21:08I think that needs to stop. I think you should have a designated amount that you're fighting for, and if you want to have a stoppage bonus or you want to give someone some sort of a bonus for an excellent performance, that's great. That incentivizes them to try harder to stop somebody. but a bad decision that can cost you half your purse is crazy it's crazy you know i had a i'm getting older you know so i try to be have a little bit more wisdom so after like i lost a fluffy i i was like i went back and watched the fight like six times and i'm like i really don't see how how i lost on on it on the decision like i can see like your point if you use this frame of mind but based on the unified rules at the time how so i dude i reached out to like a lot of people that i knew that are like in the high up in commissions and like i had really deep talks with them about it like explain my perspective listen to theirs the rules and literally it came down to it's your interpretation it's your interpretation of the rules and it was like it came down to is his effective grappling even if they're holding they're still you know whatever does it outweigh me almost knocking you out and me putting a cut all the way to your skull on your face and you holding me which one outweighs what that's how i explained it to him and they were like oh but he just had more time i said and look don't get me wrong i love fluffy i think he's a great human being i really do i've known him we fought twice already and um he's beat me both times both decisions you know and um but i don't think i lost the last one I'll still die on that hill.

1:22:51Well, it was a very good fight. It was a very close fight. I see what you're saying, though, and it was one of the things that we brought up during this past fight with Merab and Piotr Jan. And I'm like, if you're looking at it in terms of just damage, Piotr Jan is clearly doing more damage. He's hitting Merab with shots that rock him. He kicks him in the body. He's got him screaming. There was never a moment where Merab did that to Piotr. Even when he hit him with good shots, Piotr was firing back. Right. Damage is huge. It's what the sport is really about. The sport is really about either damage or coming really close to putting someone out, like submitting them.

1:23:27And it's just weird, man. That's what the sport's about. And when it's just holding, when a guy holds and doesn't do anything with it, it's like that, it's, look, it's an effective strategy. And if you're fighting a guy who could fuck you up standing and that's all you could do to survive, I understand. Like, I have no problem with boring fights. I really don't. And I know the fans are like, fucking separate them. Fucking separate them. I have no problem with boring fights because I think if you can let a guy just hold on to you, that is a part of the game. Yeah. If a guy takes you down and holds you down, I think you should be there.

1:24:02A round's only five minutes. I don't believe in stand-ups. And I know that sounds crazy, but even if it's boring as shit, and sometimes I'm happy when they stand people up. I really am. but if it was my rules if i could make the rules i'd like never stand a person up unless there's a violation of the rules right never stand a person up because it's part of the sport if it's boring it's boring you know we talked about it after the fight like after the fight like i went in the back and i was frustrated at my at myself really to be honest i was super frustrated myself well first it was i was like fuck they just let him fucking hold the whole time like in the third i literally almost knock him out like i'm talking shit right and uh uh robbie looks at me robbie lawler and he goes you should just got up then i went you're right yeah you're right that's you're right that's some robbie lawler wisdom right there and that's and from there i was like all right yeah but then i found out after like one of fluffy's coaches is um he used to be in the commission like so he knows they explained his pedigree or whatever and he's very very very knowledgeable about what the rules are and all these things so they he strategizes I guess certain things around that um so he strategizes certain things around the rules yeah that's what I that's what I heard that's what they told me and I've been a lot of guys do that he canceled like he was in the commission like part of it like I guess work for them and he's like he pulled out of working there because he wanted to be for fluffy more which is admirable but like he didn't want to have like a conflict of interest yeah so I thought that was pretty cool but like I will say like what fluffy did really good that i was prepared for like wrestling like crazy but i wrestle with guys that are like folk style wrestlers what he does very well is he don't shoot normal shots he doesn't he doesn't shoot like a double or a single he shoots like it looks like it's going to be a double but he's only at your hips he's just trying to get your hips then he's circling right away if he can or putting you to the cage and working his sequences from there but he has a very awkward shots they're so weird like i could see them and i was like oh i'm about to stuff it but i'm the kind of guy like you got to touch me and then i'm gonna go i'm not just gonna react that way you can set it up for something else right but as soon as he touches me like in the second he was i didn't know how uh but i watched it back um i went to like catch a whizzer and next thing you know my feet came out from under me because we were both circling so hard i was trying to get the whizzer and he was trying to go to my back and my feet came out from under me i just landed like on my shoulder and i'm like in the fight i'm like what the fuck just happened there's no way this is where my head's at i'm like no fucking way he just did this i'm like what the fuck just happened and my corner's yelling me his corner's yelling and i'm still in my head like what the fuck like what just dude it took me like probably a minute and a half to to like transfer into something else and then i was like uh he's not doing nothing so i'll just get him next round which terrible frame of mindset we've worked on and then the third uh but yeah After the fight, I was like, how did he get me down there?

1:27:06He went for a guillotine. I said, I didn't go for no guillotine until the third. Then I swept him with it and stood back up. I didn't do that, I swear. Yeah, man. He's got a clever style. He's a savage. He also has a crazy gas tank, man. He melts, guys. That guy melts, guys. The Delizze thing, when he grabbed his neck and a bouncer at a nightclub just dragged him back to finish him that was crazy yeah man i that's one thing i wish i would have gave like put more output like because i wasn't everyone's like you're tired i was like bro i was having a full conversation like this in between rounds right after the fight i wasn't tired i was just complacent like i was like oh like i'm already gonna because i beat malcoon like that because all he did was hold literally just held and i'm hitting him bang bang bang how am i supposed to improve my position you're literally just holding you're not even moving at all you're not lifting your weight you're not doing nothing right so i won that fight because i did more damage and i had fight ending intentions i felt i had that with fluffy so in the third i was like i'm elbowing him and he's gushing blood and i'm looking at the ref i'm like yo he's just holding i try to get up he's just he just picks my ankle and i go back down i elbow him some more try to get back up he got on top for like a minute but he didn't do nothing really anyway that's where my frame of mindset was at and it was just terrible you know looking back but um i would love a third you know well It'll probably happen.

1:28:27It'll probably happen somewhere down the line because it'll be a great fight. Yeah, that's where kind of the holdup is, I guess, right now. Obviously, you know how politics work in this game, but it's like the top five is the champion, Drikus,

1:28:42champion, Drikus, Imovolve, Sean Strickland, Fluffy, me. And it's like, all right, Sean, they just announced Sean and Fluffy. Imovolve, yep, that's cool. And then Imovolve's waiting. they've all they both said they're gonna wait for that one so it's just me and drickus and then right behind me is izzy who knows when is he's gonna fight or if he's gonna fight or right so it's like we're eating on drickus and drickus always has a lot to say when i'm losing but when i'm winning he don't really have enough to say and then like i just saw an interview like the other day and it was like uh he was like yeah i'd love to to to beat his head in or something about you yeah about me and i'm like well you have the opportunity to do so and it only makes sense unless you want to wait forever so i wonder um what he does after that hamzat fight because when a guy dominates you like that where it's so clear it's just like one of those gaps that it looks like oh you're never gonna bridge that gap and that grappling gap and it's never gonna that i don't know if you agree but that should never happen at that level it will never does happen at that level.

1:29:50That's the reality. Except Islam and Jack Della Maddalena. That's another similar situation. Yeah. Very similar situation. But I think there's guys that you get in there with, and, you know, if you're used to a, like, B-caliber guy, or, you know, a high-level guy, but there's only a few real A's. And, like, Hamzat is a real A. Yeah. He's good at it. He's a savage. I talked to DC about him, and DC said, dude, when that guy grabbed me, and he goes, we were wearing street clothes and everything like that he goes i realized like oh i'm gonna have to wrestle wrestle to keep this guy off me he was like he was he's fucking strong yeah and it's also because first of all how the fuck did that guy make 170 i don't know but i don't understand how he talks about going up to 205 because like you said you got guys like pereira and don't get me wrong i know they're stylistically different but i think he could do it i think he could do it i think he could do it if he takes the time and puts weight on yeah if he puts weight on i think he has a high chance because he's tall you know he's tall and it's also the thing is it's like these gaps in wrestling you know these gaps in grappling when a guy's a really good grappler and then you're taking on a guy like trickus he's really a striker right who's a good he's a good grappler a good jiu-jitsu guy but there's levels you know and the kind of guy like hamza like man you got to be a fucking olympic caliber wrestler to scrap with that guy yeah and it's like i tell people like i'm not gonna go out there and straight beat chemaiv in pure wrestling like it's not gonna happen i'm not stupid i'm not stupid but it's mma could i take him down i mean yeah i could but there's other ways to approach the fight that i think i i have the upper hand like you see how other people have approached him and done well with him but it's like um you also have very good submissions too you have a real solid jiu-jitsu game and you could strike you know you're you you've got a very complete package and i think you know the thing about his grappling is that like you have that hole if you have that hole he's gonna find that hole and he's gonna smother you for sure and you're fucksville that's what freaks that's what like makes no sense to me with the jerk is fight right like you're the champion of the world he took you down no problem man i totally understand i get taken down a lot you know but um i mean i know our styles are different but you didn't try to hip bump you didn't try to hip escape you didn't try to scoop the leg and lift and elevate you didn't try to do nothing he didn't literally he didn't try to do nothing he literally waited for him to establish his position he'd roll side to side maybe one hip bump around when he did chemiav did great knee sliced or just stepped over past and went crucifix do you how many times he put in the crucifix by the way that was crazy it was crazy i only had to be like once around because he wasn't getting out it was i mean how many times did he put him into crucifix in a world championship fight, has there ever been a fight where a champion has been put in a crucifix that many times?

1:32:45Insane. It was over and over and over again. We were like, how is he doing this again? This is so crazy. And that kind of blew my mind. So that's what it's like. I just think Shamayo's gap is just so good. And I think also with a guy like Drikus, and you would be the guy to speak to this, when you're down and you realize, okay, it's the first round, he's taking me down, he's on top of me. Let me just conserve my energy. This is a five round world championship fight. I'm gonna knock this motherfucker out. He's gonna get tired doing this. He always gets tired, but you know the difference with Hamza in this fight is he trained with Sam Calavita.

1:33:17Do you know that guy? Okay. I just already hired someone good. Yeah Calavita is a real elite strength and conditioning coach and Legendary guy and he runs this it's called he just calls it the garage Okay, it's an Orange County, California, and it's just a fucking garage and not even a big one Just a small two-car garage with no cars in it, and it's all just machines and equipment. He's got Armand Sarukian training down there, TJ Dillashaw. When he was in his prime, he was training down there. The reason why TJ's conditioning was that such a fucking high level when he was in his prime was he was training with that guy.

1:33:52He has everybody that I know that's training with him is like, bro, this guy puts you through fucking hell. Hell. That's TJ when he's training there. And again, this is like if you see it. There, Sam. If you see it, like, and when you listen to the guy talk, just extremely fucking knowledgeable. But he gets you to the point. It's called the training. If you look at it online, training lab on Instagram, T-R-E-I-G-N lab, ing lab, training. But training is T-R-E-I-G-N, like train MMA. Yeah, I know that name, the training lab, because I was like, man, what a weird way. That's it. So you see Aaron Pico's there with him.

1:34:32There's Hamzat. So, I mean, he's got so many elite guys that are training inside of that gym. There's Juan Enchileta. I wonder how they work. One touchdown can change everything. The crowd, the momentum, the game itself. It never gets old. Feel that same rush with DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NFL, where every touchdown could bring you closer to cashing in. With DraftKings Sportsbook, all the actions in your hands. First touchdown, anytime TD, live bets, every play, every snap, every game matters. Here's the best part. New customers bet just$5, and if your bet wins, you'll get$200 in bonus bets instantly.

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1:36:34Obviously, they have their coaches and stuff dealing with it, but how they operate is such intense. The issue with Hamza was overtraining. um so one of the things about hamzat is uh he's apparently you can't kick him out of the fucking gym he won't stop training and you gotta you gotta literally like stop him from training he's a maniac and when he got covid that's what really fucked him up so he got covid and you would think oh healthy guy like that who gets covid that ain't gonna be shit for him this silly motherfucker was training like an animal two hour sessions with covid so then you know he's never getting better so instead of like saying hey this cold is not getting better it's like don't be pussy i kill everyone he shows up again training again two and a half hours sick as a fucking dog coughing and then he broke his immune system down to a point where they had to fucking hospitalize him yeah i remember just from training while he had covid that's all it was he just refused to stop training and look if you i don't care what it is the flu whatever you have you're trying to train two and a half hour days when you have a serious lung infection you're gonna fucking die there's dc and dc told me he did one session with him this is on the bike what's that oh yeah yeah he uses uh elastic bands along with a fucking uh rogue echo bike yeah so those rogue echo bikes they suck enough and to have resistance bands while you're doing it too that's crazy yeah No, Sam's an animal.

1:38:05And, again, super knowledgeable. Like knows what your recovery should be, where your resting heart rate should be. And also super knowledgeable in terms of like supplements, diet, and all that stuff. He comes from the endurance cycling world, which is like so cycling you would imagine like Tour de France style cycling. This is probably the most endurance-dependent sport on planet Earth because it goes for so long. You have to really understand how to peak in order to compete at a real insane endurance event like that. So he's got this knowledge from that sport that he's transferred over to MMA.

1:38:43But everybody I know that's trained with him has said, man, it just changed everything. It changed my whole game. Because now all of a sudden you've got an incredible gas tank. Yeah, he's doing good. Shemayev, like I said, he looked good. I think that was a factor, though, in that fight. For sure. Because there was no fade in that fight. Whereas you saw the Usman fight. There was a fade in the third round. Usman won that fucking third round. And after that third round, he was like, fuck, I wish this was a five-round fight. Yeah, but it's like also like Usman made him have output. He didn't really have to.

1:39:10He had one explosion to take him down. But Usman can fucking wrestle. That's the difference. Like he was in there with a guy who's real strong, even though he's a weight class below him. Like Usman had been competing at 170, and Hamzat had already committed to 85. He's a bigger guy. But Usman can really wrestle, and that's the difference. It's not like a guy that doesn't know what to do and you take him down, you ragdoll him. Usman's like, okay, you got me down, but this is a long-ass fight, and I'm going to get back up, and we're going to figure this out. And in the third round, he was figuring it out, and he started tuning him up.

1:39:42He was landing good shots. Yeah, I have a friend that trained with Tremayev. He goes and helps, and he's told me. He's like, man, his wrestling's really good. I was like, how good? He was like, it's good. I was like, he whooped you? He was like, no, if he whooped me, why would they bring me in if he whoops me? I was like, touche. Good one. But, you know, he is good. But you still got to watch that. You got to watch to see what does he consider whoop. Yeah. Let me watch. Show me the video. Let me see it. Yeah. Let me see what they got. Let me go in the room. I want to see you in the room. But I like his demeanor, too.

1:40:16Like, the confrontation he had with, like, Ian Gary. Like, he's similar to me. I don't understand that because I had heard there's another angle that shows that Ian slapped him on the back pretty hard. Yeah. Oh, he did. Yeah, but Ian's that guy. He's trying to get a rise out of you. That way when you do get a rise, he's like a big brother, nitpicking. He's that guy. He wants you to get a rise out of you so then he can be like, what are you doing? I didn't mean that. He's like, that's why I don't like Ian at all. You guys were at the same gym for a while. Yeah, but like, I don't know. I know other things and things that happen.

1:40:58He's just that guy. He's talked shit to me through another person. Me and my boy are at a fight, and he's talking shit to me through his phone. Bro, shut up. Stop letting your wife tell you what to do, bro. Shut up, you know? But yeah, he walks over there, and he says something. Dude, he hits him hard on the back. And Shemaya just looks at him. And then he did what he did back or whatever. shoved him, whatever the case was. However, you saw the confrontation from there. But yeah, he did. And he told him, he was like, you hit me, I'm going to fuck you up. If you hit me like that again. He tried to big brother him.

1:41:33Because the clip that everybody saw was after he slapped him on the back. It looked like Chumayev just got really aggressive with him for no reason. There you go. This is the other angle. He keeps hitting him. Then shakes him as he walks away. And then he's talking a little shit. Yeah. Oh, we're fine. and he's not going to do nothing. So it's a little weirdly aggressive. It ain't that bad. It's passive aggressive. It's a little weird. He taps him. It was like a little, like, grab his clothes and shove him a little bit. Yeah. It wasn't like a guy that's, hey, brother. All right. Exactly. And that's what he said.

1:42:05He's like, good luck to you. Yeah. I have to give it to him. Like, some things Shemaya says, like, he fought my boy G, and he talked shit to him in the hallway. I didn't really like that. But, hey, y 'all two are going to fight. Y 'all are grown men. Do what y 'all want. Some things he might say or do, I don't like or agree with. But hey, as long as it's not to me, we good. But that, like, and other things he does, I fully agree with. I stand behind, as a man, I stand behind him. One of the things I like about Chemiyev, like, after he fought Gilbert, Gilbert and him went to war. And then he was like, you're my brother now.

1:42:32You know? You know what I mean? He was like, he was really cool with him. Yeah, you know, there's a young kid, Ansar, that trains at Kill Cliff. And he is so much, like, demeanor-wise, from what I see of Chemiyev, he's so much like that. dude i'm telling you this kid's like 18 years old and he is a stud he's 18 he fought for me on my promotion his i think his debut dude he goes and gets in the guy's face the guy's coming down at weight class he's going up a weight answer is going up a weight class dude he don't care matter of fact he's in uh that streamers video neon or whatever they post about it he's the one like throwing rdr around him really yeah 18 year old kid dude he gives everybody problems gilbert uh was throwing rdr around isn't it wild when there's like some weird young phenom that is just so much better than they're supposed to be when they're young dude it's real odd when there's you're around those guys there's three there's three or four of them that dude i i miss them a lot like when i'm not like when i when i left florida one they are such loyal humans like you barely find that nowadays as you know like you don't you don't find too many loyal guys and when they say like my brother they don't care if you're white black indian uh what your ethnicity is what your religion they don't care they care about you and dude when when i got into it with marvin at the at the casino ansar wasn't even old enough to get in so he was like brother if i would have been there I hate him, no problem But there's like Nikita Umranjan, which is Ansar's best friend There's like Islam, there's a couple of them Dat Salayev, there's like 3 to 5, and I'm telling you these guys Especially like Umranjan There he is Whoa, that's a hell of a shot Oh my goodness Dude, he is so good Oh my goodness, look how smooth he took that dude's back He just fought a couple weeks ago knocked some dude out in the first round.

1:44:33That was so smooth, man. Oh, my goodness. Oh, he is on that back so quick. Hands are so good. You know, there's one thing that these guys have in common is they're all from a hard part of the world, a fucking rough part of the world. Him and his best friend, Umranjan, they left home at, like, I think he was 17, 18 years old. They just left home. We asked him, like, hey, bro, why'd you leave home? How'd you leave home? I'm like, how'd you get here? They both said the same thing. Look at him. He's out. He's out. Referee. He's a savage. He trains 100%. He don't know anything other than 100 % every day.

1:45:12Multiple times. But we asked him, like, bro, how'd you leave home? And how old is he now? I think he's 18, 19 max. Wow. Dude, he's a savage. He looks good. He's very good. He looks good, man. There's another one for you. If you're that good at 18, my goodness. He's going to be a stud. What's he going to be like when he's 30? Dude, I tell him all the time, like, man, if you just learn how to just take a breath and just be a little bit patient in certain positions. Well, that'll come. Exactly. But, man, he's fighting good guys already. They all want to fight him. Uman John was fighting like one or two weight classes up, and he had a draw with a guy, and he thought it was like, you would think he lost the love of his life.

1:45:48He had a draw because he was two weight classes up. And I'm like, bro, why don't you fight at your weight class? Brother, I just smash. I want to fight everyone, everyone. And they can't get fights. They can barely ever get fights. It's hard for phenoms to get fights in the amateurs and in the lower organizations. A lot of people don't realize that. It's really hard. Yeah. They come to me to match them, and you've got to pay the other guy more to fight because they already know what it is. Yeah. It was hard. It was very hard. And so what weight is he at now? I think he's at 45. Damn. 45. That's his last one right there.

1:46:22No, no. That's not. That's another big take down. Bro, look at the dude's hair. He's fighting. That's what he does to everyone. Oh, my goodness. That is a crazy takedown. He's so exciting. I can't believe dudes are still holding on to guillotines when people get into side control. How many times do they watch Ovin St. Prue fight? You know? It's crazy how many people still do that. They still keep that guillotine while a guy's in side control. Yeah. That is a death sentence. And some people don't cash in on it. But if you cinch those hands together, he can't get that ham out. That's it. Turn on your side.

1:46:55That's it. It's almost like giving up your neck. Exactly. It's like if someone gave up their back, everybody would be like, what are you doing? That's like what you're doing. If you're holding onto a guillotine and a guy's in side control, it literally is like giving up your back and exposing your neck. It's kind of crazy. It is. But I see these kids like this and I'm just like, I used to be that kid, but these guys are even better. You know what I mean? Like it's scary how evolution is. But like I said, man, I asked these kids. I was like, man, why'd you leave home? How'd you leave home? How'd you get here?

1:47:23Him and his best friend left together. their story both same thing different times like brother we just left one day our parents we told our parents we were going to the store never came back what you know and just moved to america yeah like they somehow got here and they've been here and dude they work during the day they move stuff like they work for moving company and then they train so they train in the morning they go they train train then they go work all night all through the night moving stuff try whatever they have to do whatever their work is but i'm most of the time i see them moving stuff and then they come back train the next day and they do this every single day working their ass off man it's super impressive and it's super motivating too but it's it just lets you know like like for me i used to be that young cat like everyone was 24 25 i'm 17 18 yeah and i'm doing what i'm doing and now i see these kids and i'm like damn so that's what it was like when the Older guys are looking at me, but these guys are better.

1:48:20Some people can forget when they get complacent in their career and they become a journeyman. And they forget what it's like to be young and hungry. And then they'll train with someone. And that will either make them retire or it will reinvigorate them. It's awesome. Because if you're around people that are that driven, it becomes contagious. It really does. Especially if you know that a guy is working all day and training that hard. You've got no excuses. Right. And it's also like when you're around people like that, there's an energy. it catches you for sure moves you in its wake it does you're right 100 because like i get my modes where i don't want to do nothing i'm just like man screw this i've done this long enough like whatever but then i go i go back and like say today for instance i went and trained with nicky rod they whooped my ass i ain't gonna lie to you they whooped my ass and i told them after i was like it should be illegal that y 'all just whooped me that bad and uh they're like yeah but you ain't done nothing and you know you don't do pure jiu-jitsu anymore like we're the best in the the world like some of the best in the world at pure jiu-jitsu it's true i was like yeah but still i shouldn't be getting walk like that and uh but it just makes me hungry that's almost everybody i love it man he's so big he's such a freak dude i told him today i was like how are you this big and move like this this is illegal dude gordon told me there was a position once they were doing where they were um working from the back and gordon had his back and nicky flipped over the top of him and wound up behind Gordon.

1:49:45And Gordon turns to John Donahue and goes, what the fuck am I supposed to do with that? Like, what do I do if that happens? It's like, well, Donahue was like, well, nobody could do that other than Nicky. Dude. That's how crazy that is. He's so sick. You know how nuts that is? Do a backflip from your knees? I couldn't. And go over the top of someone who's got your back? I can't even visualize it. Separate the hands. Somehow or another, he separated the hands and flipped over him. And Gordon was like, okay. Because Gordon would be the first to tell you even though he's the best in the world and the best ever at nogi jiu-jitsu he's not an explosive guy yeah he's not he was like i'm not a good athlete he's intelligent though super super intelligent smart yeah he's super intelligent super smart i've listened to some of his like instructionals before and like uh i know he did one at rufus for a long time ago and the guys told me after because i was obviously at home and they're like bro he he was in a wheelchair because i guess he had a surgery at the time and he was in a chair and his lady was teaching like she was teaching for him and he was walking through every single position they they all everyone said that was the best uh seminar they've ever been to he didn't he didn't get down there and teach one move that's incredible that's incredible i was like that's impressive well you if you could do a seminar from a wheelchair jesus christ dude impressive you know wagner says the same thing he's like bro he's the best guy i've ever trained with learned from anything he's he's amazing so i've heard it from a lot i've heard a lot of other guy though that's 365 days a year of training he goes period there's no days off fuck your christmas fuck your birthday there's no days off which is so crazy yeah think of but the way they put it and the way donna put it is like if you are training 200 days a year that is a lot but you will not be able to beat a guy who's training 365 days a year because he has 165 more training sessions a year so over the course of two years Now he has, you know, 300 plus, then 400.

1:51:36It keeps going and going. So over the course of five years, like he's trained so much more than you. It's true. And it's not just training. It's like when they're not physically training, they're going over tape all day. Right. Like, which is like, it's hard to do that and to keep your mind focused on that. They're writing things down. They're going over positions. It's not just all hard physical work. It's intelligence. It's a lot of breaking things down, a lot of like the finer points of technique and positioning. It's funny you say that because it's like for me, like when we were talking earlier about how like time off, it reinvigorates your mind.

1:52:12It's like that's what it does for me. Like I probably do 100 reps in a day of like things that I've screwed up on, like throwing a jab wrong or leaving my hand down or like in my head, my mental reps. And then somehow when I do go train again, it's just so weird. Like my body just automatically does it. Like say I throw the jab and I just bring it back to my chest. I don't want it there. I want it on my chin. I do so many mental reps of this for like a week or two weeks or however long I'm out. By the time I spar again, I'm not doing it no more. Like I do so many mental reps focused on such little details.

1:52:48But then outside of that, I really take my time. I try to take my time away from fighting. like when I'm not training for the most part like especially like the month after the fight I don't want to hear about fighting I don't want to talk about fighting that's why I stay away from like most people that don't know me I don't want to talk because anytime they see me oh what do you think about this fight what's next I don't know man you just want to let your I just want motivation exactly turn I just want to be with my family I want to be a normal person because one day fighting is not going to be there for me it's always been there for me since I was 13 when I had anxiety about something, stress, heartbreak, whatever it is, it's always been there for me.

1:53:23And that's when I always grew. But the end is a lot closer than the beginning. Right. That's where I'm at in my life, and I know that. So I'm trying to make the most of it and try. You think about high-end, you've got 10 years, if that's really possible. Maybe. It's not usually. And usually the last few are rough because the last few years, like Anderson after he broke his leg, right? Right. So I say there's like two Andersons. There's Anderson pre-Wideman and post-Wideman. For sure. There's the knockout where Wideman caught him at the left hook, and then there's the leg break in the rematch. And then from then, he's never been Anderson again.

1:53:57Correct. And I think the injury has a lot to do with it, but it's also father time. I don't think we got Anderson in the UFC until he was 34. It was a while because he was already big on the other scenes. Huge, bro. That was one of them fights where people didn't really know Anderson that well, and he was fighting Chris Lieben. and the odds were Anderson was the favorite but not by enough. And I was telling my friend, like, bet the house on the Brazilian. I go, bet the house. Yeah. Because he was coming off of that. Remember Cage Rage? Yeah. So he was coming off of the Lee Murray fight. He was coming off.

1:54:31Who did he fight over there as well? He fought Jorge Rivera. That was a big fight. There was a Tony Fricklin one where he did that crazy step-in elbow. Oh, yeah, that's all the highlight of that. I didn't know that was the name, but I know the elbow you're talking about. That elbow do you know he had a practice with his wife because his coach wouldn't let him try it really coach was like stop doing that You're not gonna do that. He goes. I'm gonna hit him with this. He's like no You're not gonna do that stop training that so we didn't want to train that so he told his wife to hold a pillow So his wife was holding a pillow at home And he was going like this Over and over again He wanted to do some on the box shit.

1:55:08What a great story. That was Anderson like people didn't people saw him in his prime for sure obviously because he's one of the greatest of all time but for sure they didn't see that transition to him becoming in his prime and that was in cage rage because he had some really good fights in in pride but then when he went to cage rage like something flipped man you know how it has like olivera when it happened to him after he had his kid you know something flip sometimes when a fighter just locks in and then they become who they really are yeah whoever Everyone around them knows because they've seen it in the gym, but no one else has seen it.

1:55:40It's weird. I always say that about myself. I still haven't I'm still not the guy that everyone knows in the gym I show a little bit more every time but I'm not even that guy Well, maybe this changing of environment and coaching will allow you to hit that spot. The coaching, like you were talking about earlier, right? It has been the hardest thing for me to let go of control and give it to someone else. But it was kind of one of those things. I met Horacio and Mike, and I have obviously a lot of trust and a lot of faith in Bilal. I've known him for a long time, and I see what he's done. But I met these guys, and Max, too.

1:56:19I met him for five days when I was with Bilal. and to sit back and watch them also have my own interactions with them, it just felt like one of those things you just feel like you're friends instantly, like you've known each other forever. That's kind of what that connection was with them. So honestly, it was a little bit easier than normal to let go of the control of controlling what I'm going to do, when I'm going to do it, the strategy. Did you think about other camps as well? I didn't think I was going to leave, to be honest with you. I didn't think I was going to leave Florida. I was just going there to help my friend and just kind of see what I could do different, like what I could change in my own in my own thing um but then obviously uh my goal after being there because he was getting ready for Jack uh Bilal was so I watched everything I helped him for a few days and then I went back I fought Marvin and I was at um I did two or three weeks with uh at Chicago two weeks I did two weeks excuse me I did two weeks and then um I did like four or five in Florida.

1:57:23So I was like, okay, next time I'm just going to do split it four and four, you know, spend my time mix and match. Cause it was great time. Like for me, then I fought the writer. He was there and I was like, I don't know. It didn't sit well with me, how all that stuff went, like how he got there and everything. And everyone was like, Oh, why is he fighting him? Their teammates. And I told everyone from the beginning, like you can ask Gilbert Burns. Cause he said it on his little podcast thing. He did. I always said, I'm not going to train with him i'm going to fight him one day i'm good no animosity i just don't need no more friends i just don't right um i have enough guys the guys that i know that i'm friends with joe pifer rodriguez uh by singor um those are guys that are gonna be at the top or at the top that we have agreements only for a belt i'll fight anyone on this planet for about anyone and I expect the same in return because it could change their lives or my own.

1:58:18They know that about me but no matter what the time frame is, if you say yes to me or you say my name, we're going to fight. That's it. That's how I feel. Those guys are the guys that I have with and now they're all coming to the top. Someday it's probably going to happen. Dana hates hearing that kind of shit. Guys won't fight friends. I'll fight for a belt though. anyone on the whole planet godzilla i'll fight for the whole bro i don't care and ganu i'll fight him for a bro i don't care like you know what i mean like it could change my whole life like my family sure yeah so like i'm very realistic because obviously even if you love to do this at this level it's about the money too like you know it's financial freedom making intelligent choices because one slip up could set you back two years yeah i'm learning that yeah i learned that the hard way.

1:59:10Well, that's also important to learn, right? It's also important to have those setbacks. Those setbacks are some of the most important growth points in your career, in anybody's career, if you do it right. Like those set, those setbacks are when you feel that ugliness. And then you really have to assess what could I have done differently? Right. What am I doing wrong? What's my, is there something about my mindset or something about my diet? Is there something about my recovery? Am I doing too much of this or too little of that? You have to have that pain. If everything is just going great, the thing going into the fight was Aspinall's every fight other than the Curtis Blades fight was a one round fight.

1:59:44It was him blowing guys out. And so no one really knew what was going to happen if we got into round three, round four, round five. And so that question's always hovering over the head. When a guy like you, who's been in those wars and been in the trenches, you've already had, that's a blessing. It really is a blessing because it gives you not just the motivation to return better than you were before. Like look at Bo Nickel after he lost, right? He loses to De Ritter, comes back and smokes Adolfo Vieira. Looked like a different guy. Looks like a different guy. Why? Because there's a blessing in losing.

2:00:20There's a blessing in failure. There really is. Because if you can swallow it, it will give you a fucking furnace inside you to come back stronger. If you can swallow it, but some guys can't swallow it. They choke on it and they cry and and maybe their confidence gets shattered and they're never the same again. Or maybe they go, why am I doing this? I could be a carpenter. I always wanted to play drums. I've thought of that. I thought of that, but I don't want to go back to being a carpenter. I'm good with that. A guy like Tom Aspinall, when he gets to a fight with a guy like Ngannou or a guy who's going to be there, those questions.

2:00:55And I'm not saying that he wouldn't succeed. I'm not saying he wouldn't win. But those questions might be in your head because you haven't been in those high profile wars before where you came up short. You know, I still get those questions. I question. I'm such a perfectionist and I know nothing will ever be perfect, but I want as close to it as I can get. That's still great mindset. I find something. I will always find something to be negative. But what's helped me is I had a sports psychiatrist for a while. He was great. and I learned a lot with him, and for me, it's been about, like, I'm very, like, open with people that I care about, and that I know care solely about me, they're not worried about if I win or lose, or, you know, all that stuff, the fame, they're not worried about that, they care about me as a person, and that was something that was great with Bilal, and Horacio, and all the guys in Chicago, Mike, Max, you know, we talk regularly, how are you, man, how's the family, everything good, how's, but I'm very open with them leading up to the fight, like, there's a clip from behind in the scenes of the last fight where I'm open and they catch it.

2:01:57It's just me being vulnerable of who I am. I was too manly or whatever or trying to suppress it before where it just grew into something bigger, and I would mentally shut down. Malcoon was the worst fight for me for that. I was shaking in the bed the night before like I was freezing, but I wasn't. I was so nervous of like I can't lose to this guy. He's not on my level, and then I go out there and perform not that well. So your mind was fucking you. Yeah, because I find one negative thing, and I just focus, and I make it huge. I think it's good sometimes. I think it's good sometimes, but it's almost like you have to be critical, but yet also confident.

2:02:31Right. And I would take my confidence away by focusing on it. But being able to talk about it, like, again, they have that moment. I have it on my Instagram. They made a clip or whatever for me. And it's just literally it was two nights before the fight, three nights before the fight. And we're talking, and I'm telling him, he could get me down. He could finish me. But if he finishes me on the ground, he's got to be just that good. But I'm nervous, man. I'm nervous that I'm not going to go out here and perform to what I know that I can do. To me, that's the worst. I don't mind losing to someone that's better than me.

2:03:03I can take it. I haven't found that man yet, but I know it's going to happen. But to lose to someone truly better than me, I can accept it. But to lose to myself, oh, man, to look in the mirror, it eats me alive. I think those things that can creep into your head before a fight where I don't want to lose I don't want to disappoint people. I don't want to do this Then that is a really bad time to have those thoughts It's not a bad time to have those thoughts when you're working on stuff It's not a bad time to have those thoughts Like if you're really trying to motivate yourself to get up in the morning and run or whatever it is like to really get after it in strength and conditioning But when you're fighting like you have to have a strategy of how to squash those thoughts when they come up I mean, it's not just fighting.

2:03:47Anybody who's listening to this, anything in life that you have to do that's really difficult and scares you, you've got to know how to squash negative thoughts before they burn your house down. Like when you see the fire, stomp that bitch out quick. Stomp it out quick and then make sure that you're starting to really only focus on positive things and never let it get in. Because those little creepy demon thoughts, they'll get in and then they start running around. They start running around they start screaming and taking over your brain. You're like get out of my head Get out of my head, but they're already in there you let them in you let them in and Sometimes they have to burn your house down before you realize what the what the danger is of them getting inside your head Right, and so then the next time you've got to come up with a strategy to squash it before it gets too crazy We did a lot of like at the beginning of like sports psychiatrists like that was one thing right?

2:04:39Like I would suppress it right away and suppress it and try to creep back through and I'd suppress it again But then it just gets bigger and stronger to where it can just come out and you don't know when it's going to come out It could be the night of the fight. It could be the day before the fight could be in the fight, you know So it's like that taking it in whatever that emotion is for you Dissecting it like literally get to the root of why you think this like oh, I think he can knock me out If I dissect it. Well, yeah He's knocked a lot of guys out, but anyone can knock anyone out right anyone can so what are you nervous of?

2:05:09You've done this, like, for me over 30 times. Like, what are you worried about? You fought on the biggest level. You've main evented. You're ranked in the world. You fought some of the best in the world. Like, what are you worried about? You let a demon sneak into your brain. Yeah, you know? And once I dissect it, I've worked on it like that so well. And being open and honest with my coaches and, like, the people that I care about and that care about me has been such a great, like, thing for me. I'm kind of the guy, like, sometimes, like, just I've learned about myself is just, like, just let me talk.

2:05:38Sometimes. I'm not a big talker but just let me talk if you don't even say nothing but damn that's alright bro that's why Tuco who you always see me with normally he's always with me bro he's the best at just like listening to me like it's not very often but when I do want to talk like I'm like bro like he'll ask me what's wrong I don't think you want to hear it today like I'm good he'll ask me that a couple times eventually I'll just let it out and then I'm good I'm good like it's almost like you have to tell somebody what's going on inside your head and if you keep it inside your head... There's the wings.

2:06:12The wings are coming. Demons. Flying monkeys. Throwing firebombs inside your head. Launching them. Wizard of Oz. Launching them, bro. So it's like, that's been great for me. That's really helped. I've had a couple younger kids that have asked me, oh, how's that? And I turned them on to my guy that I used to use. What did you do with the psychiatrist? What were the sessions like? We would talk about things like this. He'd have worksheets and stuff like this. But you know what really, really sunk in? So first we worked on like learning to catch emotions. He called it something. But learning to catch different emotions before they grow.

2:06:47So you can dissect them. Stop the fire. Yeah, exactly. Stop the fire before it burns your house down. So like recognizing. First is recognizing. Anything you have to recognize. If you recognize it 30 minutes the first time, all right, let's try for 25 the next time. Don't let it, like you thought on it for 30 minutes and you're like, fuck, what am I thinking about this? Right. Let's do 25. So keep it until you can get it like right away. Then we dissect it. And then we move on about our day. Things that helped me at the beginning were like. Does it help you talking with a different person, like another person about this, rather than just bouncing it off your own head?

2:07:18Yes, for sure. Something about talking to another person makes it real? Yeah. And it just like gets it out. Like I'm holding it in, holding it in, holding it in. As soon as I talk, it's like it's literally like leaving my body. Like the stress just kind of like. And sometimes they have like good things to say, like things like that. My sports psychiatrist was the one that told me those things. Like, bro, you've done this how many times? You fought these guys. Did he ever work with fighters before? He was working with a small team in New Orleans. And now he's got other guys in the UFC now because they would ask me and I'd turn him on.

2:07:48And he's great. His name's Eric. He's really great. He's from New Orleans. Because I would think if a guy was like a sports psychiatrist for tennis, it's like some things would carry over, but it's a very different thing. And he trained as well. He grew up wrestling and stuff. Perfect guy then. Exactly. And it just worked out great, man. I learned a lot. I kind of figured out what worked for me. So I was like, all right. And I get so busy. But, um, another thing he gave me was, uh, you read it the day, like after you weigh in, you read it and then you finish, like it has a part where it says read up to this point.

2:08:19And then you read this, the rest of the section, uh, the day of the fight. And it's, I forget the author. I have it in my phone somewhere, uh, that he sent me a long time ago. And I would read it before every fight, everyone, like the apex when we was in the apex all the time. I'd weigh in and we had to wait that like two hours till like we could face off if you weigh in first And i'd sit there and i'd read it and it was like an author and he talks a lot about like different sports and like like one of his main basic things is like hope the word Hope hold on possibilities exist. Like don't ever think it's over.

2:08:51It's done Don't ever say I have to do something. I want to do something. I don't have to the moment you start putting I have to Is the moment you start like he says like put like change you hit the emergency stop button the emergency brake on your car like you got to let it off you're not performing at your best with all those things so like stuff like that really like sets in and i try to remind myself so like reminding myself of those things talking about it is really like what helps me this book is it a book it's like a little uh pamphlet pamphlet yeah kind of do you know who wrote it uh it's in my phone i could find it well just like so other people can look at it because it sounds pretty powerful it was great man and if it helped you there's there's a lot of like hokey sort of self-help stuff online you know be a fucking man go out and get it done and there's you're there's a wolf inside of you and all that kooky shit but the reality is there's a lot of wisdom out there too there's a lot of like you could read meditations by marcus aurelius and literally learn how to live a better life like there's a lot of stuff out there that's very beneficial so When someone like yourself has something that really helped them, I think it's probably good to put it out there so other people can get it.

2:10:02You know, it's so crazy. Now I'm looking through like the documents and stuff that he sent me. Like mindfulness was the word I was looking for. You catch it. Like mindfulness, like stuff like that. But it's funny. Mindfulness is one of them co-opted words. It's been co-opted like gratitude and spirituality. It's one of them words that like too many kooky people use. Yeah, exactly. Too many wooden beads people. The first time he told me, I was like, bro, don't tell me what I think is some crazy shit, bro. I'm not that kind of guy. Don't you hit me with no mindfulness, son. Yeah, man. But look, I'm literally going through right here, right?

2:10:31And he would send me stuff, right? Before a fight or like. So he'd send me quotes? He'd send me YouTube links. Look at the second one from the top. Who is it with me? David Goggins. Goggins? Oh, that's hilarious. He sent me that. Like stuff like. He'd send me stuff like this. Goggins is a perfect example of that. He says things all the time that I think of. jaco when i'm when i'm working out and i'm really tired i think of this one jaco video where it's called good have you ever seen that video no you want to get fired up yeah i want to see it we get fired up this is one of my all-time favorite videos you know jaco right jaco yeah yeah so jaco you know was a navy seal and uh was he's got a book called uh extreme ownership and it's just the way he thinks the way he carries himself is it's so it's so beneficial if you can adopt this that there's sometimes where i'm training where i'm fucking really really tired and i want to quit i think of jocko and i go good you're tired that means you're going to get stronger listen to this this is fucking amazing direct support it's one of my guys that worked for me he would he would call me up or pull me aside with some major problem some issue that was going on and he'd say, boss, we got this and that and the other thing.

2:11:50And I'd look at him and I'd say, good. And finally one day he was telling me about some issue that he was having, some problem. And he said, I already know what you're going to say. And I said, well, what am I going to say? He said, you're going to say good. He said, that's what you always say. When something is wrong and going bad, you always just look at me and say good. And I said, well, yeah, when things are going bad, there's going to be some good that's going to come from it. Didn't get the new high speed gear we wanted. Good. Didn't get promoted. Good. More time to get better. Oh, mission got canceled.

2:12:36Good. We can focus on another one. Didn't get funded. Didn't get the job you wanted. Got injured, sprained my ankle, got tapped out, good. Got beat, good. Learned. Unexpected problems, good. We have the opportunity to figure out a solution. That's it. When things are going bad, don't get all bummed out, don't get startled, don't get frustrated.

2:13:12If you can say the word good, guess what? It means you're still alive. It means you're still breathing. And if you're still breathing, well, now you've still got some fight left in you. So get up, dust off, reload, recalibrate, re-engage. and go out on the attack.

2:13:49Oh, yeah. That's a good one. You know what I'm saying? That's a good one. Play that one when you're in the fucking dressing room. This is what it is. Getting ready. I don't know if it's like a document. So these are the things he sends you? Yeah. Okay. So it's called How Sports Psychology Can Help You Do Your Best When It Means the Most. Unedited copy. Who's the author? What's that say? Oh, Rob Gilbert. Rob Gilbert, Ph.D. Montclair State University, Montclair, New Jersey. Okay. It's pretty cool. God, I'll ask you to send me that afterwards. Yeah, of course. I love shit like that. There's little things like that you can carry in your toolbox, and they can help you, and not just if you're a professional fighter, but in basically everything in life.

2:14:33It's been, it really helped change my perspective. How's Bilal doing? who fucking gets poked in the eye more than that guy jesus christ that guy has had i think he's had something insane like nine eye surgeries i know he's had three of the hard ones like of the he literally he told me the story he had to drive home six hours his his uh excuse me his wife came and got him and brought him home but this is a while back uh he had to drive six hours with his head like that because something with the pressure you can't cinch straight up with it it's it's crazy heat. This episode is brought to you by Monster Ultra.

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2:15:53Your ambition just met its match with Robin Hood. You play for the win, not just on game day, every day. Channel that drive into your money. Trade stocks and ETFs, options and futures all on one platform. You expect more from yourself. Expect more from your money. Get started today at Robinhood.com slash your money. Your money, your move. He explained it to me, but it's like, it blows my mind. I couldn't believe he got poked again by Ian Garey. I couldn't believe it. The moment he got poked, I'm like, I can't believe this is happening. I can't believe it's happening. Dude, I thought the same thing.

2:16:27Oh, my God. Look at that. That was the Leon one, right? Look at that finger in his, deep in his fucking eyeball. That is so crazy. Yeah. That's so crazy. So he's had major surgeries on his eyes. Yep. And then Ian poked him, like, right away. I was like, this is crazy. I don't know how you feel, but I feel like it should be an instant one-point deduction. At least. Every time. At least. At least. I like what Talon Aspinall said. He was like, no, you poked me in my eye. You want me to continue? Okay, no problem. I get to poke him in his eye. Right. I was like, damn. Well, a lot of people are talking shit about Tom, but he apparently still can't see.

2:17:03Yeah. Like, his eye's still fucked up. Like, no one knows. Here's the thing. The eye, the other eye got hurt as well, but not as bad, but it looks way worse. Yeah. The finger goes way deeper in the other eye. Dude, eye pokes are crazy. Bro, he went straight three stooges. Boink. And, you know, it's crazy that everyone that talks the most shit has never been poked in the eye. Not even a little bit. Yeah. Like, accidentally. Oh, it's horrible. You know? It's like a bolt of lightning in your brain. And then you can't see. And the idea that you can't see and then you're supposed to fight a guy. Also, you're fighting a guy in Ian Gary who has a fucking nasty left hand.

2:17:38So if you get poked in your eyeball and you can't see that punch gun. Well, he's got a nasty right hand, too. I mean, Ian Gary can strike. Oh, God. That's been all right there. Look at that. So look at the right one. Excuse me, the left eye. That's deeper. And that one didn't get hurt as bad. It's his right eye that really got hurt. the left one is like finger knuckle deep in his eyeball man dude it's crazy you know like um balal is like one of those guys you talk about 365 24 7 he's ready he's doing something always i'm i'm even like bro take a break bro you've earned a little break take a week off be with your with your family you know he won't well at his stage of his life it might be the only way to keep going because he's at like 38 now, right?

2:18:22Yeah, something like that. That's the same age as Usman. And you can still be a world-class fighter at that age. You can clearly see that with Kamaru against Joaquin Buckley. A lot of people counted him out because Joaquin Buckley was fucking a lot of people up. Yeah, he was. Joaquin Buckley, bro, whoo, that guy's a problem. He's a fucking problem. I've known him for a minute, man. He's wild and fast, and he keeps getting better. and he's really fucking intelligent about how to land shots. He knows how to set things up. And he likes to fight. He loves to fight. And he's just a dog just in the fight, man.

2:18:59He's always dangerous. That Wonderboy fight, he's having a little bit of problems solving that distance and that range until he didn't. Until he didn't, man. Bro, that dude's got hammers in his fist. Yes. So when watching Kamaru just ragdoll him like that, I was like, God damn. Fuck yeah, it looked like Camaro world champion level Camaro Yeah, like a lot of people have kind of counted him out because there's this narrative that he puts out there Openly about his knees. Yeah. Oh, he talked about on this podcast openly his knees are fucked He's like I got to go downstairs backwards sometimes. Yeah, they hurt so much I heard he went and did like a lot of stuff to like Redo him and now he says they're good, but I don't I don't know.

2:19:40I don't know. Well, I know he went to Columbia He went down to that bio accelerator place in Colombia I don't know if he's been to the place in Tijuana that the UFC uses now the the Cellular Performance Institute but they're all very similar we're being held back to such a fucking ridiculous extent in this country by the FDA that you don't realize how many people with neurological conditions how many people with severe injuries how many people could be helped by stem cells and there there's no evidence that they're damaging people there's no evidence. I mean, look, anytime you have any invasive procedure, anytime you have a surgery, there's always some risk that something can go wrong.

2:20:21There's always a risk in any medical procedure. But there's no outstanding risks versus reward to stem cells. On the contrary, the evidence is outstanding results, including some of the things Dr. Neil Reardon has been doing down in Panama with people that have severe neurological problems, guys that have had CTE, Like real bad fucking other than just injuries. And then even injuries. Like my mom had a really bad knee and I sent her down there and it got a lot better. I sent her down there twice. A lot better. Mel Gibson, his dad couldn't walk. He was like almost 90. He was like 80 years old. And then he went down, got his hips done.

2:21:05Neil did his shoulders, his hips, a bunch of other stuff and did Mel as well. and he's just like no my dad was like up and walking around like five years later still like like he was 10 years younger like he's a great actor by the way oh mel he's the man he's the man i love that guy he's crazy too he's so interesting he's such a he that guy's got like a fucking tornado going on his brain all the time really oh yeah yeah i think that's why he's such a good director man do you ever see apocalypto yeah one of my favorites i fucking love that movie same it's such a good i love that movie too such a good movie man such a good movie and that's great ones i mean he made a movie where nobody speaks english exactly and it's a block and it's amazing it's fucking incredible dude it's fucking i love that one but like i like his old stuff too like braveheart braveheart was amazing passion of the christ was really good too man the patriot was good yeah dude he's fucking he's the real deal man mel gibson's the real fucking deal what's the one you think i'm crazy but uh i think it's think like a woman you ever seen that one i did not bro that is freaking hilarious what is it it's like um he gets trapped in like he can like read a woman's mind and so because like he's basically a guy he works he's a journalist or like a publisher or something like that and um he's very like a womanizer like he gets women and just like whatever and they always like talking shit about him behind his back like everyone else so now like he's trying to move up the ranks uh he's supposed to be next in line for a promotion well he's has his daughter come in and she leaves the the the blow dryer and he trips on it and falls in the uh the water gets electrocuted and he wakes up and now he can hear all women's thoughts and it like changes who he is as a person that's it's amazing oh like she gets his promotion so now he 2000 bro great funny is Helen Hunt he's been great in a lot of he was he was great in that conspiracy theory movie what's that that what was it Julia Roberts yeah he was a wacky conspiracy theorist guy I don't think I've seen that one it's pretty good what's called conspiracy theory oh is that what it's called that's hilarious I've seen that and um I think like a lot of the things that he talked about now it's like people openly discuss online you know Because this was all before the internet.

2:23:26What year was that? 97. 97. Yeah, so there were no conspiracy theory websites back then. Or not a lot. He has another one where his daughter works for this company. She comes home, and it's one of those rich companies that hide stuff, but you never can tell because you never have proof. And she's working in a secret department. She comes home all frantic. And the dude yells something, shoots her with a shotgun right on his front door. Boom, kills her. So obviously then he goes and starts trying to figure everything out and he starts figuring out like through the way what the work was doing it was like a Poisoning or something.

2:24:00Well, anyway, he finds the guy and ends up killing him But he ends up dying too because he got the poison from wherever he went in to the workspace like he followed it He was doing all kind of shit, but it was super cool too. What movie is that? I don't know You know that movie? Where he shoots he shoots his daughter on the front step like that's one of the that was one of the things that sold the movie Like that was one of the previews Well, how about Lethal Weapon? First time we ever saw anybody do a triangle in a movie. True. Right? Yeah. That was crazy. I like his movies. I love that scene.

2:24:27Like, that scene, I was like, what is he doing? I didn't even know what a triangle was back then. Because I think that was in the 80s. I wasn't even alive. When was... When did Lethal Weapon 1 come out? Edge of Darkness. That's it. Lethal Weapon, I think it's like 87 or 88. Yeah, man. So, back then, no one knew what a fucking triangle was, other than the Greysies. People in Brazil knew. Brazil was so far ahead of the curve man. They were having MMA fights in the 30s. Dude, I was uh I went there for my boy Tuco. He fought in the favela right and Yeah, look at this He was a Gary Busey who was fighting in the end who was the guy who was fighting in the end?

2:25:03I don't remember. I think it's Gary Busey right? Yeah, it is Gary Busey. You know, he had a headache

2:25:21Movies in the 80s are so wild, dude.

2:25:30We don't need to watch the whole thing. Let's just cut to the triangle. This is silly. I thought I was coming. I thought so, too. Oh, Gary Busey tried to take it to the ground. Outrageous. Mel got swept so easily. Oh, Mel's on top.

2:25:50Everybody was doing cocaine with their right move. Oh, look at that. He goes right for an arm bar. Oh, sloppy. Terrible technique. Terrible left hook. The left leg barely held on there. That was some... Wow, there it is. That's not bad. That's not bad. That's pretty good. I like that. He got a good angle. Oh, that's not bad at all. That's tight. He's cinching it up right there. Everybody at home is like, what is happening? Another man put his legs around another man's head. I remember when Hoist Gracie did that to Dan Severin. Everybody was like, what's going on? Like what is happening? And then all of a sudden you see Dan Severin tap and you're like, what happened?

2:26:22What did he do? He put him to sleep. My friend would know better the lineage and stuff, right? That's where he's my intelligence. But we went to Brazil, right, for his fight. He was fighting in the favela at Jose Aldo's gym. Novo Uñao? Yeah. It's like right on the edge of the favela. It's nice though. Yeah. Andre Pedanaris. Yeah. He was there. He was super nice. He's awesome. He was super nice. Super hospitable. That guy's a pioneer, dude. Yes. He was fighting MMA in early days. Bare knuckle. Really? I didn't know that. Andre Pettit. Oh, my God, man. Yeah. He's a legend. I just know him. We met a lot of great guys, but we were there with Daniel Gracie, and I think it's Henzo's mom, and then his dad.

2:27:06The whole lineage was there before he passed away. He was there. We went over there, and we were sitting on their couch, chilling, hanging out, talking, meeting all of them. and again I am absolutely god awful with names but I knew like as soon as he come out of the stairs he was going somewhere he had a nice jacket oh no he was doing an interview with um uh he was doing an interview like a little podcast or something it was all in Portuguese I couldn't understand what they were saying but they met him super nice and then like I think like it was it wasn't too long after that he passed away but like that's like this one of the starts of Gracie jiu-jitsu was it ilio was it carlos who was it i think it was carlos i think i don't it doesn't matter it was one of them right i could figure it out though okay but dude super nice like they were all explaining like the lineage and i've i started with what's that jamie oh sorry i started with like gracie jiu-jitsu so like i used to know that lineage fairly well but then you know how life is you just get away and kind of forget you're not around it as much but yeah well it's a crazy lineage i mean that one family's responsible for changing mixed martial arts dude they were telling us so many like cool stories like things that i had heard through the grapevine you know from other people when i was younger but they confirmed it and like they were even like asking like where the beef comes from in the family you know like what started that exactly what started because obviously he was in it he dude he well they translated for us but he was saying like how it all got started but beef between what parts of the family two beefs that they have uh no it was uh carlos and who's the one one of the brothers went out on their own because he was like i don't want nothing to do with this part of the family was it horian maybe it was i know that name they were saying started the ufc yeah it might have been horian also trained mel gibson okay for for this lethal weapon fight scene there he is horian Gracie yeah Hory and Gracie in Playboy magazine challenged Mike Tyson to a no rules fight see I don't want to sound stupid so I don't like to say too many names but you're gonna make me call my friend and ask him when we leave here well Elio was his father you know Hickson's obviously his brother Hoyce's brother Hoyler's his brother I think Hoyler and Hoyce are half brothers yes I knew that they were they were saying that but they were just kind of like going over like old times and stories and like they were talking about that because apparently like with they were saying like well daniel was saying like within the family because he's a gracie but i think he's he's like it was his mom or something like that was so she's still a gracie but anyway or his no his cousin was a gracie so technically like he's not a real blood gracie i don't know they tried to explain it it's very weird but anyway we were there and they can't they don't talk about it like why there's a divide between this side of the family and this side and they they explained to like even when they were kids like they would go in and get into it like say you'd go in and you get in a fight in the street just like maybe you're 12 years old it started they said like basically that young that like there was a divide between whatever one and this one and um because they would go get in a fight and he would come back and rat on them and he was like bro come on you know so it started as that young And he said it was a lot.

2:30:20It wasn't even like, oh, it was just one time. No, like multiple times, you know? So it was just interesting to hear, like, these stories that these guys had of, like, when they were young in the streets, like, fighting in Rio. Oh, yeah. I mean, there's a video of Hickson fighting somebody on the beach. Yeah. They talk about it. Some Lutalibre guy smacks him on the beach. He talks about it. They were talking about it. They're fighting in the sand, scrapping on the beach. Daniel was there for that. Really? Daniel was there. He was the one that brought it up. Wow. He was there. right he said he they showed the picture of it and he was right in the back hickson has a little surfer shorts on yep he even daniel explained how it started i don't remember that exact details but dude it was like well they would dojo storm each other they would show up at places and challenge like luta livret gyms and luta livret guys would show up at the gracie dojo dude it was like yeah here it is look at hickson with them beautiful colored shorts on he just smacks him like come Come on, baby.

2:31:14It's on. And the dude's like, take your shoes off. Come on. Let's go. Like, there, hold my shoes. Bro, these were wild times. Yeah. Especially when you take into consideration Hickson's widely considered one of the absolute greatest Jiu-Jitsu practitioners of all time. You know, and that he was willing to have these kind of fights on the beach in Rio, these no-rules fights just surrounded by dudes. And man thongs. Yeah. I mean, and not have any striking. Look, see how Hickson's winging punches? These guys had no striking at all. It's really kind of crazy. I mean, not ever saying there's anything wrong with anything that Hickson ever did because he's like one of the greatest of all time.

2:31:55But if you look at the difference between a guy that's just a pure grappler like Hickson, even when he fought in pride, remember he'd come out with this, throw those little stomp kicks, just try to get – he's just getting you to the ground. It's all getting you to the ground. There's no one like that now. No one has very little stand-up. There's no one who fights like that and it's crazy because there's like so many stories about like Hoist wasn't even supposed to be the one to fight, you know He wasn't even supposed to be the one. Yeah, they're supposed to have the other one Well, Hickson was always the champion of the family and Hoist had always said that the Hickson was ten times better than him Yeah, Hickson, Hickson tapped me every day Every day I go to the gym Hickson tapped me, but it's just like that's just how it was but there was all there was a lot of rumors one of the rumors was that So this is the narrative Hoy says it's because you're so beautiful.

2:32:44It's like look at his face Of course they picked me. That's what he said on the podcast It was hilarious because he's so handsome, but Hickson's handsome, too So it didn't make any sense, but it was I think it's because Hoyce could show that it was the technique because like Hickson Was shredded yeah, he was pretty jacked too And he looked like like a world champion athlete whereas Hoyce looked like a hundred and seventy pound guy Who's like, you know not that muscular and it was just technique it was him using beautiful Jiu-jitsu technique that nobody knew what it was. It was like the best advertisement ever for Jiu-jitsu when you see a 175 pound guy tapping out Dan Severin, you know It was this huge wrestler and catch our chemo when he got him in that arm bar Like all the shit that hoisted Ken Shamrock when he tapped him crazy to watch a guy That's like so much smaller than everybody else dominate everyone and everyone was afraid of him So it was like the perfect thing.

2:33:37And the thought was, okay, well, if he ever does lose, we always have Hickson. Right. But Hickson went off to Japan, and he did Japan Valley Tudo, and then he did Pride. And, you know, there was talk at one point, Tom, of Hickson fighting Fedor. They were throwing money around for Hickson after he fought in that Coliseum show, which I think was in 2000. When did he fight Funaki? When did Hickson fight Funaki? I think it was the year 2000, and they were talking about Hickson fighting Fedor. They had made him an offer, Japan, for him to come over, and he wanted to do it. It never came. I wish you could have heard, like, again, because I'm so bad with names and my memory is not as good as it used to be, but it's one of my favorite memories from fighting.

2:34:252000. 2000. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's one of my favorite memories from fighting, just sitting there and listening to these guys because the history was freaking insane. The stories were awesome. Like, it was, but like I said, I'm terrible with names, so I'm very bad with, like, the truth. So look at that. Andre Pedneris on that card versus Genki Sudo. Sure is. Ended in a draw. And Genki Sudo was a bad motherfucker. That's how good Pedneris was. I didn't know that. Oh, yeah, Pedneris was legit, man. Damn. Very legit. Very legit. Damn. I knew he was a great coach. I didn't know he fought. Fought in the early, early days.

2:34:59You know, I mean it was he might have even fought in extreme combat. Did he fight in extreme combat? He might have like that was back in the day when Mario Sperry first burst on the scene He fought back then Igor Zinoviev all these dudes that everybody forgot about They fought and that was John Peretti's card So John Peretti who was the commentator for the early days of the UFC then John Peretti went over and started his own Organization for a while. It's crazy like I I think like sometimes, well, I know, like I said, I'm bad at names, right? But it's like I went and fought in Seattle last year or this year.

2:35:35I fought in Seattle this year. And they did like there was Amanda Nunes, Robbie Lawler, and there was one more. They got inducted into the Hall of Fame this year. And nobody could give like really any fights for whoever the other person was. And not many could give too much for Robbie Lawler. I was like, bro, how have you not heard about Robbie Lawler? Oh, you mean they weren't clapping? No, like— So here it is. Let me just go over this real quick. Pedneris, his debut fight, Valley Tudo, Japan. That's what it was. He defeated Rumanosato. And then Pat Miletic for the UFC welterweight title, UFC 21.

2:36:16We lost in the second round, technical knockout. And then he fought Kao Uno. He was a savage. I remember him. That ended in a draw. So Genki Sudo and Kao Uno, two savages. and both of those fights were draws. And the last one with Genki Sudo was his last MMA fight. So how many fights did he have overall? Four. Four fights. But shit, they're all good. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he fought legit guys, man. Yeah. He beat Ruman Asato. You know, Ruman Asato, man, was fucking terrifying back then. KO, soccer kick KO. Oof. Damn. Yeah. But, yeah, it was like, it was just different, man. That time frame is just different, you know?

2:36:52Well, it's the birth of the sport, and it's kind of amazing to have been there at the very beginning and to be able to watch it. When I first found out about it, I couldn't believe it was real. I had a bunch of friends that told me about it. I think I heard about it from dudes at, do you remember Benny Urquidez? Do you know who he was? No, I don't know. Benny the Jet was a famous kickboxer. Now I'm really going back. I feel like I know that name. He was one of the best kickboxers of all time. And this was like way back in the day like in the early 80s Benny the Jet was the fucking man in the late 70s and the early 80s and he had this gym in California in Van Nuys, California called the Jet Center When I first moved out to California, there's two places.

2:37:35I knew I really had to go One was the comedy store and the other was the Jet Center And so I got it. I got to work out at the Jet Center and Benny was there and his cousin Blinky He was there and Blinky Rodriguez who was another elite kickboxer who actually knocked out Jean-Yves Theriault who's like one of the best kickboxers of all time. So it was like this incredible gym. But Benny the Jet Urquidez was like he was early like a – like the Bill Superfoot Wallace days, like back in those days. You know? And I forget what I was just saying. I lost my train of thought. What were we just talking about before that?

2:38:15Yeah, you moved to LA. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I had a point. I had a point about these early MMA fighters. Oh, you were saying it's the birth of? It's the birth of the sport. So watching that, this is what my point was, watching that where there was not even leg kicks, to watching all of a sudden you see Rick Rufus, and he fought that dude from Thailand, like one of the most important fights in the history of martial arts, because you get to see that dude from Thailand just chop Rick Rufus' legs apart. And then Rick and Duke both learn from that and said okay We got to incorporate that in our game Duke becomes a world Muay Thai champion after that Which is like it change and then Duke becomes one of the best MMA coaches ever so it changes the entire course of the sport and When I got into it and started watching it in That's what it was so the jet center one of the guys from the jet center is like you got to see this thing It's called the UFC.

2:39:06This is in 94. I was like what what is it? It was a UFC 2 Like I didn't even see UFC 1 I saw UFC 2 because that was the only one that was available on VHS So I watched UFC 2 I was like this is crazy I'm like how is this guy doing this like this is and I was like oh my god Like how is everybody so vulnerable to this one guy like this is nuts. So I was like I got to train jujitsu and Watching all of these people from that That era and watching the level of the competition at that era and what the fights looked like versus today there's not another sport on earth where you could see a gigantic difference between 1994 and 2025.

2:39:48Like a gigantic difference where it's unrecognizable. Like that kid that you were talking about before, the 18 year old kid, what's his name again? Ansar. That guy would have been a world champion. Easy. A world champion. Yeah, easy. Like no one would have fucked with him. We would have said this is the greatest fighter that's ever walked the face of the planet. And he's a kid that's on undercards of small regional shows now, right? How crazy is that? So like when you see these guys in the Dana White contender series some of these guys coming up I'm watching them fight for their first fight in the contender series like this guy looks like he'd be fighting for the title Like they're complete fighters.

2:40:21They're fast. They have good technique everything they're doing is smart It's like the level has changed so much in such a short period of time And I feel so lucky to be able to see the whole thing I saw the whole thing like from the ground floor to today. It's crazy because You probably hear all the time right like I was probably watching Fear Factor before I knew at the UFC So when I saw the UFC I was like dad look He was like he looks at me because obviously my dad's seen it before he's like yes I need he's been around a while, you know, he's been in the UFC I don't even know if it was longer, but I'm sure it was yeah I was I started working for the UFC in 97.

2:40:58So he was like he's always been there so then obviously as i get older i start seeing history and looking at old fights and older fights and i see i noticed you there the whole time and like me and my friend tuco had these conversations but i was like bro joe's a real one though he's he's been here the whole time like how awesome does that have to be for like you dana for tidas and probably a few others too that nobody knows that have seen this thing grow from what it was to what it is today oh it's amazing it's gotta be It's amazing. Yeah, I feel so lucky. I'm so fortunate. Like, it's one of the things I look forward to more than anything in life.

2:41:35And like you said. It was UFC weekend. I'm like, oh, boy, here we go. I get so excited. I've been doing this forever. I still, I started UFC 12 in 1997. That was the first fight that I ever did backstage interviews. That's what I did. Or post-fight interviews, too. I think I started doing interviews backstage, and then I interviewed guys after the fight was over. That was, you know, early, early. But how'd you start there? It was a crazy fluke, so I was already doing jujitsu. I was at Carlson Gracie's. This is back before Vitor made his debut I was training at Vitors with Vitors gym with Mario Sperry I took lessons from Mario Sperry when I was a white belt.

2:42:11It was awesome dude. Murillo Bustamante was there all the time There was a ton of the the Carlson Gracie killers You know the two Bulldogs and all fighting each other yeah, and Carlson was there every day So I got to train there when I was on news radio the sitcom I was so it was just like 1996 and I just loved that there was this was before Vitor fought in the UFC So he while he was training at the gym with us. He went and fought this guy John Hess John Hess was his big tall he fought in the UFC as well. I believe I believe he did John Hess was his He had a style called safta I forget what it was about, but it was like back then dudes would just like make up their own style street fighting Artistic finger fucking, you know, they would make up some sort of a fucking acronym but uh Vitor Blitzed across the ring.

2:43:01He was 19 years old and just lit this guy up like a machine gun like Got him down Like put him out on the ground like it was so crazy and so fast the most ferocious display of ground and pound I had ever seen in my life at the time. And I was like, this is crazy. And so just randomly, they had a guy who was doing the post fight interviews, and they wanted to get a new guy. And they were looking for people. And the guy, Campbell McLaren, who was the producer of the UFC, happened to be friends with my manager from the comedy club days. Campbell used to work at a comedy club with my manager. And they were just shooting the shit over the phone.

2:43:41He goes, hey, I'm looking for someone to do interviews for the UFC. Do you know anybody that'd be interested? He goes like, Joe is a huge fan. He's like, Joe watches every one of them. I actually got direct TV just so I could watch the UFC because that's when it was banned from cable. So I got my cable removed and I got direct TV put in my house just so I could watch the UFC because it was the only way you could catch it. And then it was no money. And I was supposed to fly to New York, but then the last minute it got canceled, they made it illegal in New York and we had to fly to Dothan, Alabama on a fucking propeller plane.

2:44:14I shared a propeller plane with Randy Couture.

2:44:21And actually that was later. Later. That was in Louisiana. I shared a propeller plane with Randy Couture. Randy didn't fight that. But it was Vitor made his debut against Trey Telligman and everybody thought he was a jiu-jitsu guy because he was from Carlson Gracie. He had a black belt. and he just came out just throwing missiles just miss so fast like nobody had seen anything like that and he was only like 200 pounds back then he was light and fast and strong as shit and then he fought uh scott ferozo and took him out in the final so he won this heavyweight tournament and that was uh 1997 that's crazy yeah that was the third person i was trying to think of when i was in seattle so basically what happened ufc was asking fighters hey were these these three guys they weren't saying they were getting inducted but obviously if you've been around it was vitor it was vitor uh amanda nunez and robbie lawler they weren't cheering for vitor no no they were asking the fighters right they were asking the fighters uh hey if do you know who these guys are if you do what's your most memorable moment of them what do you what was your favorite moment like anything like that right because obviously they put it on the montage when they announce it and they told me that only me and two other fighters on the entire card could give a fight from Vitor.

2:45:40I was like, no way. I was like, that highlight that you're talking about when he sprints across ding, ding, ding, ding, even if you don't know the person how do you not see that highlight? When he did that to Vanderlei, remember we did it to Vanderlei Silva? That's what I said. That was my Vanderlei was that one. That was crazy but I think the scariest Vitor of all time was TRT Vitor. whoo trt v tour was the scariest fucking human being that ever stepped into that cage if they never banned trt i i think that guy would have been a terror for every fucking human being that weight that weighed 185 pounds for sure the way he wheel kicked luke rockhold like what the fuck are we looking at man he we never saw him throw a wheel kick in his whole career all of a sudden he's wheel kicking guys in the head he come into gym like because obviously live in florida He come in the gym and he is the nicest guy.

2:46:27Brother, brother, come here, come here. Very nice guy. Let's talk about it. Hey, I think you need to slow down a little bit. These 100 % every day is no good, brother. He said, why don't you come? We can have some coffee, have lunch, and let's talk about it. I love the science behind the sport. Wow. But super nice guy, right? Those are conversations that I had with him. If I see him, great guy. Before this, never had a conversation with him. Only watched him on TV. But that was the first interaction I ever had with Vitor as a person. I don't know if he knew who I was. He just watched me spar and then come to me after.

2:47:01That was it. That's very nice of him. Yeah, super nice guy. And for a real OG like him that's been, again, fighting since 1997. 1997? That's almost 30 years. That's literally crazy. Dude, it hurt my heart when they said that people couldn't say fights for him. Couldn't even say a highlight. It's hard. These young guys, a lot of them are 25 years old. They were 24 years old. They didn't watch the sport. Joshua Van, 24, right? They didn't watch the sport a lot before they were involved in it. And the fights that they've really seen a lot of have been the last few years. Yeah, and that's why Josh Van, that's why I said his name.

2:47:35He's young. But he says the same thing because they were like, why do you think Pintoja's the goat? He's like, I know Demetrius Johnson is what everyone says. He was like, but I never got to see him. You know, like I was too young. That's crazy too. Go watch. It's online. Yeah. Go see him, Joshua. YouTube's free, bro. You're the champ now, Joshua. Go back and watch Mighty Mouse because that motherfucker was extraordinary. He was. He was special. Mighty Mouse in his time was extraordinary. Shit. He was so special when he fought that big Brazilian kid and won. Uh-huh. Right. Because he lost one and then he beat him twice, right?

2:48:04Lost the first time in one championship and then he got KO'd and then KO'd him the exact same way. Really? Was it? With a knee. Yeah. I didn't know it was the same way. They both got KO'd with knees and both got KO'd against the cage with knees. It was literally like almost the exact same except Demetrius' was more artistic. It was beautiful. The flow where he was like chasing him. He rocked him, and then he's chasing him down. He's like, not yet. There it is. And he just launches and catches him with this. You've seen it, right? Yeah, I've seen it. Oh, my God. I didn't know it was the same way.

2:48:32What is that dude's name? The dude he KO'd? Andre? I don't know. Search Demetrius Johnson flying knee KO 1 FC. I bet you'll find it. Yeah, Adriano Morais. That's it. That's it. And Morais is good. He's really good. He's really big and one FC's got that squirrely weight-cutting jazz So this is the second fight after Marais had KO'd him in the first fight and also this is a DJ That's probably 35 years old, right? Right. I mean and after a long career in the UFC widely recognized as the greatest flyweight of all time in the UFC and To me like he just didn't get the love that he deserved when he was in his prime because he was 125 pounds and And for whatever reason, I mean, it's not like it's not even more interesting to watch.

2:49:25But people have this weird thing, like a heavyweight could beat anyone in the world. 125-pound guy will dump him on his head. Stop. Watch him fight. Right there. Boom. Oh, that's beautiful. Back it up a second so you can see the sequence. Look, right hand. Timing. Boom. Perfect. The timing is just so beautiful. That's so, look, that's fucking artistic, man. Wait, wait, bang. That is so artistic. It's perfect. And to KO a guy with the shit he KO'd you with in the first fight is wild. Dude, I don't know much about Demetrius as a person, but from what I've seen of him, obviously because you see more now that he's doing his streaming and stuff, he is like— He's the best.

2:50:04He's the definition of a martial artist, too. He cares about the pureness of being a martial artist rather than the views or the belt or any of that. So I respect that a lot. He's not talking stupid shit just to get attention. He hates people that do that kind of stuff. He hates disrespectful stuff. He's such a nice guy, but also just so smart about his approach to the sport. Just so clever inside the cage and also a whole fucking fast man. One time I grabbed him just as just being silly at a UFC. He was in front of me and I put my arms around him like from behind, you know, like saying hi to somebody.

2:50:38Yeah, and he turned around he looked at me. He hit me with two knees to the body. He just touched me. It was so fast. I was like, dude, that was so scary. I go, you hit me so fast. I didn't even see them coming. It was like, look at that. It just moved like a cat. And like you said, he was probably 35 or whatever there. He could still compete with the best in the world. With the best in the world. No problem. And juice free, too. Juice free with the best in the world. And by the way, over there, I don't know what kind of drug test they're doing, but it's probably multiple choice.

2:51:11there's a lot of them organizations where you're like how are you testing really you know because like if you're not testing all throughout camp randomly you're not really testing you know because we have to remember that alistair overeem when he fought brock lesnar was tested and that is the juiciest man that's ever walked the face of planet earth the alistair over him that fought Brock Lesnar is the juiciest guy I've ever seen fight. It was horse meat. And I wish he could keep juicing. I do. I think we would have seen a different result. You let Alistair stay juicy and stay 265 with world-class kickboxing skills.

2:51:55And also, he was so jacked that he could kind of hide from punches because when he would shell up, especially in K-1 when he had those big gloves, bro, when he would shell up, so he's got biceps and shoulders and then traps everything's all protected and he's got that high guard and he's coming in like this throwing bombs and he looks like a superhero he looks like a guy from a fucking comic book yeah let's just let everyone juice if you want to juice just everyone juice let's make it an even playing field instead of let's try to catch who's not or let's catch who's juicing would you if they if they just open the gates okay okay i'll start it off by saying yes when i was younger i was like no i never juice i want to be all natural to show everything like to show i'm just that good then i was like as i got older and seen it i was like nah i would but that's like i remember i fought eric anders for lfa right and they have pictures of him on the scale the day of the fight 222 223 one of them two right i'm stepping in i don't even really cut i'm stepping in like 194 i'm young i don't cut really anything that time i did cut a lot that was the first fight i cut a lot for because i was lifting like crazy and i wasn't really doing nothing else because i was in louisiana i used to train with rich clementi okay yeah so you know he's crazy as hell um so i was training there but i was lifting more than anything but anyway i was probably like 196 is 197 no more than 200 for sure no questions asked and uh dude they they come in the back out that night and they're like hey we're drug testing you i said what he said yeah we're gonna drug test you it's random i said well if it's random is he getting drug tested too they're like nah i said oh so you're telling me the man who's weighing over 220 and just weighed 185 exact yesterday is not getting tested but the guy who's only weighing like 14 whatever pounds more is getting tested i pulled up my shirt i said does it look like i'm on fucking steroids does it look like it i said give me some credit bro if i was gonna take it i promise you i would look like it and they're like i'm sorry bro but this is it's just our job i was like all right let's go get it done but it's just like how did you randomly test only a few people on a roster that has to be like a budget thing that has to be a budget thing texas commission That's crazy.

2:54:17But that must be like they don't want to spend money on everybody. I don't know. If you test one guy on the card, you should have to test everybody. Yeah, I think it was a total of three or four guys is what they said that they tested on the whole card. If you're testing a guy, you have to test his opponent. Dude. You have to. That's crazy. I still, to this day, I laugh about it. I'm like, come on, bro. Every time someone asks me, like, hey, we're going to just text you. Come on, bro. There was a few fights where they stopped. They wouldn't let a guy fight because they in the TRT days they did test to see what people's levels are and one guy I don't want to say his name, but one guy was so high that they canceled the main event.

2:54:52Really? Yeah They canceled the main event at the weigh-in. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I didn't know that he was so juicy They were worried that he was gonna die They were like you could like your levels or whatever you fucking did You should not be fighting with this level of testosterone in your system. Did you also on TRT? so it wasn't like this guy's just some genetic freak like y 'all romero coming out of the cuban sports program no it wasn't he's a special human too that's a special human yeah do you ever heard of a guy um clovis i think clovis hancock he died in the fight i think it was for legacy or lfa i fought him then his next fight he died in the cage and they brought him back whoa yeah cpr it's it It was all over the internet.

2:55:39I fought that dude. I was like, no way. I saw that the next day. I seen it. Yeah, they had to give him CPR until the ambulance got him loaded up and taken to the hospital. So his heart just stopped beating? Wow. Never, obviously never allowed to fight again. Obviously, yeah. Yeah, man. Crazy. Imagine if he wanted to. Oh, my God. He probably did, bro. He was funny. Some guys just have that dog in them. They don't care. Cyborg wanted to fight again after he got his skull crushed by MVP. No way. Yeah, he thought he was going to fight again after that. So here it is. Can you imagine being in the audience watching that?

2:56:10They're doing fucking CPR on it, dude. Oh, my God. That's so scary. Yeah, yeah. I remember he was the cut man for the day. That's so scary. Yeah, man. It's crazy. Well, thank God they have those EMTs on standby. For sure. These organizations, they do their very best to screen people and make sure that they're as healthy as possible. The UFC does a real good job with that. He's dead for five minutes. Yeah, dead for five minutes. He's dead for five minutes. The cut man was the guy that was giving him CPR. It wasn't even the EMTs. Oh, my God. Thank God the cut man knew CPR. Holy shit, dude. Yeah, it's crazy.

2:56:43Well, you know, it reminds you, this is not a game. It's a crazy-ass fucking sport. So what's next for you? Do you know? Do they have you lined up for anything? No. I've been pushing. Hopefully, Drickus. Hopefully, March, April at the latest. So do you need that much time to prepare? Or is that how you'd like to? Yeah, I started training again today, matter of fact. Maybe that'll get him excited about fighting you. Huh? Maybe that'll get him excited about fighting you. Who knows, man? Maybe that's a trap. Maybe that's a trap. If I was Drikus, I'm like, this motherfucker probably has a full six-pack if he takes his shirt off.

2:57:20He's probably ripped his butt. Six-pack of rolls. He's ready to go. He's just bullshitting, saying he hasn't been training to go me into a fight. Yeah, man. So Drikus is the guy that you're hoping for? Yes, sir. And it makes sense. It's just the right time. Like I said, Imovolve is going to wait for the champion. He earned his spot. They just announced Fluffy and Sean. So what's left? It's just me and him. It's a good fight, too. It'll be a great fight to watch. And a good fight for you, obviously, fighting former champion. And for Drikus, that's the kind of fight you need at this point. You need to turn back the young lions.

2:57:57I've been trying to fight him since he got into the UFC. I just felt like I still feel this way. I feel like he's the luckiest guy I've ever seen. Don't get me wrong. He does have a couple fights now, but before he got the belt, I always said he's the luckiest guy. Marcus Perez was beating his ass. Marcus Perez wanted to do something crazy and went to throw a spinning elbow. Dirkus was throwing a body shot when he was throwing the spinning elbow, and he hit him right in the mouth. Dirkus hit Marcus right in the mouth, out. I don't think you can call that lucky. I don't know. I know what you're saying, but he finds a way to win.

2:58:32The dude's a dog. He is a dog. He finds a way to win. You know, I mean think about some of them fights that were just like Like the Adesanya fight like he just kept kept coming and found a way to win Yeah, the Robert Whittaker fight we took Whittaker out in the first round you can't there's no no no I didn't that you're right. I that one. I don't see luck in that one I think that was a great strategy. He's a fucking animal dude. Yeah, he I love that's honestly like we can say whatever we want about each other He can joke talk shit whatever the case but I love the fight because I know he's coming to fight like he's coming to kill for sure I love that I don't want a guy that's like I've had him but I don't like the guys that just want to hug like he's trying to hurt me I love that like that nervousness brings out the best version of me because I'm nervous like who's not nervous of another man that's gonna he's trying to hurt me and his to me one of his best attributes is exactly what you said like he you describe it as he finds a way to win like that's a great way for me i'm just like that dude can dig deep look even in the hamzat fight even in the hamzat fight remember the third the fifth round yep fifth round he's on top dropping bombs on hamzat at one point in time it was a little too late and he didn't get him out of there but he was not giving up yeah he just was getting dominated There's a difference.

2:59:51For sure. He was still trying to find a way to win. But I love that. That motivates me by itself. I love hearing that. I want a guy that's going to try to come kill me. Because what's the worst that's going to happen? He knocks me out? Okay. Okay. That's what we came to do anyway. Any man could do it. I've been TKO'd before. All right, cool. But I can do it to you too. I love that aspect of the fight. That's my favorite thing. That's what motivates me about the fight more than the number. the danger yeah i like that it's and i i feel like i really truly haven't had that in a while like a true like some guys look at it as a sport and some guys really mean it like i'm trying to hurt you and i like that like it brings that out in me too because like i'm trying to hurt you all right you're gonna try to hurt me i'm gonna try to hurt you or you know i don't know but that's just how i look at the fight and it really like excites me like that's that demonic side of me coming out like let's see i'm ready well i love hearing that and i love the fight i hope you get it thank you and thanks for being here man it was great talking to you uh let everybody know how they can find you on social yeah uh on instagram at brennan allen 185 or b underscore allen 185 and uh that's that's really about b i'm just kind of chill i'm low-key all right brother well hopefully next time i'll talk to you it's after a victory yes sir thank you for having me My pleasure, brother.

3:01:13It's such a pleasure being here with all you guys. Thank you so much. My pleasure. All right. Bye, everybody. Bye.

3:01:22Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

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