JRE MMA Show #176 with Dustin Poirier

25:44And we would give them the very specific numbers of what's supposed to be in each batch. And then we would third-party test. We'd find a bunch of shit in there that's not supposed to be in there. And it's because, you know, if you're getting it done overseas, they have these vats where they mix all the stuff in and they don't even clean the vats. Right. Right. They dump it out and then they dump the new stuff in there without cleaning it. There's residue in there. And then also the level of drug testing, how high these things can sense anything. Right. Even if there's a tiny bit, they'll find it.

26:13Right. With John Jones. Right. It was picograms. We got introduced to the term picograms. Pico, like a grain of salt in a swimming pool they can find. Yeah. So the testing is legit. And I'm glad, you know, we're fighting. We're kneeing each other in the face. If we were running track or something, I would. Exactly. But we're fighting. You can get seriously injured, man. Exactly. I've always been against doping. But I'm retired now, Joe. I'm retired now. Now you can get through. Yeah, I love what you guys get. Well, Cowboy got real jacked, too, afterwards. But then he talked about coming back, and then he got off of everything.

26:43That's the thing, though. Like, always back in the day, all the TRT guys, like, if you change your body's natural production of testosterone with exogenous testosterone, you have to be on it for the rest of your life. Well, you don't have to because there's things called HCG and HCG and clomiphene can restart your body's production of testosterone. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Because I know your testicles will stop producing once you introduce foreign testosterone, right? Well, for a period of time, especially when you're a young man, you can restart it. But, you know, my production, I've been on TRT since I was like late 30s.

27:19Like, it's not coming back. Yeah, yeah. I'm shooting blanks on it. Pow. But you're good. But two of my daughters were born while I was on TRT. So it does work. I just had a limited amount. I had soldiers, just one fucking special ops guy. The only one was marching. But he got through. Black ops. Yeah. So if you think about like all of the time where people were allowed to dope, it is a giant percentage of the history of MMA. Like pride. The further you go back, for sure. For sure. For sure. Pride, it was juicy as juice. Yeah. Like Ensign Inouye, when he was on the podcast, told me that in the contract it said in all capital letters, we do not test for steroids.

28:03We aren't looking. I've heard other people say that as well. We aren't looking. Thumbs up, green light, let's go. Shoot up the juice. Come fight. We'll pay you cash. Get out of here. They wanted you to juice. They wanted you to fight better, which is like, okay. It becomes a spectacle, but man, people can get seriously injured. You can. Especially, but then also the thing is, like, does it make you more durable? I think it does. Can it prevent you? I think it does, man, because just one that right off the top of my head, when Bigfoot Silva was TRT or whatever he was on, he was so durable. So durable.

28:34Him and Mark Hunt had those crazy fights, but when he got off, he started getting knocked out. Right. You know? But there's also the switch. There's something that happens when you've had a certain amount of concussions where that's a wrap. Another guy that comes to mind. Remember Eric Silva? Yeah. Welterweight? It was huge. Dude, whenever they started doing the USADA stuff, he was getting knocked out and just wasn't himself. He didn't look the same. He melted. I wonder what the medical reason for that is, but I think it has something to do with confidence and self-belief with the testosterone.

29:03I think that's a big part of it. I really do. It's definitely a part of it, but also there's a part of it, your vitality. You're just more durable. I mean, when you're jacked up on testosterone, it's just more fucking durable. Yeah. Everything about you is more durable. Alistair's a great example of that. Like animal mode, man. Yeah, man. Dude, I think Alistair Overeem when he was Ubering, I think that is the best argument for TRT ever. Looked like a superhero. Bro, when he was in K-1 and he was shelling up, how are you getting through that? How are you getting through that shell? Remember how small he was, though, back in K-1?

29:35He was like a 205 or 185. Well, no, and pride. Pride. Pride when he was fighting at light heavyweight. Chuck knocked him out. Liddell knocked him out when he was a legit light heavyweight. And he was skinny. Yeah. Young and skinny. He just decided, time to get big. Yeah, look at him back then when he fought Shogun. Still pretty jacked, though. Oh, yeah, man. He was shredded. He was shredded, but he was a shredded light heavyweight. You know, I think he's a vegan now. Dude, look at that. Come on, son. Come on, son. That's ribeyes. That ain't vegan right there. Go back to that other one. That's what I'm talking about.

30:08I mean, that's what a UFC heavyweight champion is supposed to look like. Hell, yeah. Come on, son. I mean, also. Put that on the White House card. Not just that, but highly skilled. For sure. He wasn't just jacked. He was highly—I mean, there's a K-1 Grand Prix champion. I mean, that dude was the cream of the crop at kickboxing. He was the cream of the crop in MMA. And he even won the Abu Dhabi European Trials as a pure grappler. Yeah, people don't know that about Alistair. His grappling is high level. Very. He had one of the best guillotines in the game. Like Alistair in his prime, when he went over and he fought Brett Cooper over in, was it Burt Cooper?

30:49No, who did he fucking fight in Strikeforce? Brett Rogers. Brett Rogers, that's right, sorry. I'm thinking of the heavyweight boxer, Burt Cooper. Burt Cooper. Who fought, he had some crazy wars with Evander, Evander Holyfield. I think Evander's down in South Florida too now. I don't remember Cooper. He was a tank. He was a tank. He was a super jack guy. But Brett Rogers, when he fought Alistair, Alistair immediately hit him with a low kick, and you could tell he was like, what is this? It was a different kind of low kick because you're dealing with the tree trunks of Alistair with perfect technique.

31:31That guy was as good a kickboxer as has ever entered into MMA. And when he was saucy, he was a problem. Yeah. He was a real fucking problem. Speaking of kickboxers from that era coming to MMA, dude, didn't Gokan Saki come over? Oh, yeah. I thought he was going to do so much better, but he was older. He was older, and he was at a time where it's like, you know, he had had so many fights in K-1. You know, he had so many wars. And he fought Khalil. You know, Khalil's fast as fuck. And, I mean, good kickboxing. Real good kickboxing. Thai style. Khalil cracked him in the first round and knocked him out.

32:12Yeah. Yeah, which was a big fight for Khalil because, you know, Gokhan was the Turkish Tyson, was coming over here. You know, he was one of those guys, like, Mirko Krokop was, like, an elite kickboxer who was entering into MMA, and everybody always gets excited about that. Obviously, Pereira is the best example of that ever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he was a guy I knew. I told everybody, I was like, that guy's going to be a nightmare for everybody because there's something about him, man. I don't know what the hell is going on with his bone structure, his DNA, and his intelligence. Like, he figures shit out that other people didn't.

32:44Like, the way he threw that low kick, like, the way he throws that calf kick with zero tail, no turning of the hips. Like, he fucks up guys' calves better than anybody on the planet. We had, like, a huge rush of the calf kick. I saw it for, like, a year and a half, two years. Everybody was doing it. Now it's kind of fading away. I've noticed that. It is, but not with him. It's not with elite guys. Guys that are really good at it. It does so much damage, man, so quickly. Crazy. And it's less commitment. So you don't have to turn your hips over as much so wrestlers aren't grabbing singles as easy.

33:15Well, I remember your fight with Jim Miller. It's just like, oh, dude, tore me up. Yeah, that was one of the first examples of calf kicks being really fucking dangerous. And I've never felt it before. And I'm a Southpaw, so to land good calf kicks, you'd have to fight another Southpaw, right? Right. And that doesn't happen too often, especially with one who's throwing those. So I didn't know what kind of black magic he was doing, bro. I was like, I got a flat tire. What is going on? What is this? I know. You know? Isn't it crazy that it took that long for people to figure that out? Ben Henderson was a guy doing it early.

33:46But it wasn't that effective for some reason. He was doing it, but it wasn't having the devastating damage. I'm trying to think of who's the first guy to really— Edson Barbosa would do it every now and then. Mm-hmm. Trying to think of somebody who really brought it over. Bro, it's made its way into kickboxing now. It's— Because they were saying like the Muay Thai guys are not susceptible to calf kicks. And everybody was saying that. And I was like, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. They are light on their front foot. So that front foot is. They are. But there's times where they have to plant.

34:13Like when they're throwing a right kick. There's a guy named Yuki Yoza. Yuki Yoza who fights for one. He's a Kyokushin guy. And he is fucking everybody up with calf kicks. He fights like high guard, tight inside. And again, no pivot of the hips. He's essentially throwing his calf kick almost like he's kicking a soccer ball straight up the middle. That's the way I like to do it as well. Just clip the top of the calf. There's no commitment. You don't have to pivot your hips or plant to turn. You can just snap it out like a jab. Yeah, well, a great example of the changing of technique was you in that Conner fight.

34:51Yeah, calf over and over and over. And it was also southpaw versus southpaw. Same thing. You just destroyed that calf. Yeah. And you could tell he didn't know what to do. because as good as he was and as many fights as he had, two-division world champion, he hadn't been calf kick, which is a crazy transition. When you see the history of the sport, that is one of the clear differentiation. That's another word that's fake. That's the clear line in the sand where the techniques changed. Yeah, and it's one of those things before it happened to me. I saw it, and I was like, ah, it might be uncomfortable, but until it happens then you have a different respect for it so Conor probably learned a lot that fight man like this is for real calf kicks are for real what's fucked that it's just one shot that's what's crazy about it cause a thigh kick like you can get a hard thigh kick and your leg goes dead for a couple seconds but it comes back yeah whereas calves don't really come back that quick they explained it to me at the hospital after the Jim Miller thing apparently your calf doesn't have the chambers for the fluid to drain so that's why it gets compartment oh compartment that's why it's so painful cause it you can't like Like, the swelling can't go out through your whole leg, so it sits in one pocket and fills up, and it's just uncomfortable.

36:03It can stop nerves. Kayak gets my flight, hotel, and rental car right, so I can tune out travel advice that's just plain wrong. Bro, Skycoin, way better than points. Never fly during a Scorpio full moon. Just tell the manager you'll sue. Instant room upgrade. Stop taking bad travel advice. Start comparing hundreds of sites with Kayak and get your trip right. Bad advice? You talking to me? Kayak. Got that right. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast? Smart move. Being financially savvy? Smart move. Another smart move? Having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto.

36:50Bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. Did you ever see what happened to Austin Hubbard? Dude, that's what they wanted to do. After the Jim Miller fight, they wanted to cut me at the, uh, I was like, no way. No way. Fillet you to release the pressure. Well, another guy, Uriah Faber, when he fought Jose Aldo, his leg blew up like a balloon. Yeah. Apparently, if it gets that bad, compartment syndrome, and the swelling is bad enough for long enough, you can lose function of your ankle and foot.

37:28Yeah. Which is crazy, right? Right, right. Well, Uriah was one of the first guys to implement going into – why can't I think of it? The fucking chamber, oxygen chamber. Hyperbaric. Hyperbaric. What's wrong with me today? I'm making up fake words. Can't come up with things that I know. But he was using the hyperbaric, like, exclusively to recover from that and documenting it. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. A lot of good brain benefits for hyperbaric. I don't have one. I've done it before, but it's never been, like, a routine thing. Well, you have to have access to it. And also the tint.

38:05Where you can do it a lot. The tint, the zip-up tint at home. Not as strong. Yeah. You need a solid. You know, you need, like, one of those propane tank ones, those big, thick, walled ones. The glass, like, it's really good high pressure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, you know, you got to be careful in those things. You can't, no sparks. Yeah, dude, I saw a story that a kid was in one. You saw that? That was a couple years ago. Horrible. Yeah. Horrible story. Yeah. But hyperbaric is awesome for recovery. It's also, it lengthens, there's a protocol that developed, one of the universities in Israel developed it, where you do 60 sessions over 90 days, and it lengthens your telomeres that's commensurate with, I think it's like a 20-year difference in your biological age.

38:49It's nuts. It's super effective. Like when you get a lot of oxygen into your system like that, it just helps everything recover. For sure. Like if you have an aura ring or a whoop strap and you go into one of those things, it shows you. Yeah. It's like, oh, you have an amazing recovery day. Yeah, man, the metrics we can track now with all the wearable devices, it's pretty awesome, dude. Well, it gets you to understand. I think you can get a little addicted to those things. For sure. So when I was competing, I stopped using them because every day wasn't ready. Need to rest. Red, red, red every day.

39:20So when I retired, I got back to it. Now I'm using them. But when you're training for a fight, you can't. Isn't that interesting? I'm not taking two days off. I need to train. And the fight's coming up. If I'm in the red zone, I still need to train. I know. Isn't that interesting? A wearable device would tell you you're not supposed to train, but yet you know. in order to reach MMA, peak physical condition, you have to push when you're not ready so that your body's forced to recover quicker. I know this guy's training. That's why I got rid of it. During camp, I don't use it. Didn't use it. Well, it's weird because, like, what if you listened to it?

39:53Like, some people say, like, Terrence Crawford was talking about, like, there's times where he wanted to push where his coaches told him not to, and then he realized they were right. Yeah, maturing through fighting men, pulling back got easier as I got older. When I was a younger fighter, I didn't want to take any time off. I needed to be as many reps, as much time on the mats as possible. But as I got to like mid thirties, 36, I was like, you know, this is, I got to take days off, complete days, complete days, not just an easy day or a technique day. I just need to be out of the gym. Just relax.

40:27Yeah. Reset my mind to where I want to be there. Just hard for fighters because you operate on momentum of of the conditioning and the training and the discipline. And it's like you're in there. And then to have a day where you're not, you feel like you're slipping backwards. Right, and you show up to fight week with that momentum. Like, I did everything I could. I bust my ass every day. Like, it just gives you so much energy and so much confidence going into fight week. You've turned over every stone. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the worst thing, though, is seeing a fighter fight flat, because you know they're over-trained.

40:57And the one thing that I always point to is when Tim Kennedy fought Kelvin Gaslam, and he had gone through two solid camps in a row. So he went through one camp, peaked, got ready for the fight, and then the fight got canceled and then went right back into camp to train for Gastelum and didn't give himself the chance to recover. And, you know, he was too tough. Too tough, too disciplined, and his body broke down. You're redlining that engine over and over and over. I mean, we just saw it with Mirab, I think. Not that taking anything away from Jan, but, you know, you stay that busy. those kind of fights, those training camps, I mean, it's hard to do.

41:31That's what makes things like John Jones could be so impressive to me, man. To get on top and stay on top that long. Yeah. I know, it's nuts. There's so few guys that have been able to do that. Especially in MMA. Too many variables. Too many ways to slip on a banana peel, get caught in something. I know. I kind of love that Khabib went out on top. And never came back. Respect. That's awesome. And they offered him a lot of fucking money to come back. He's like, nope. Yeah. Nope. Good for him, man. Yeah, good for him. That's the way to do it. And then you go out, all your faculties, everything's fine, undefeated, go down a legend.

42:06Right. Yeah. Like, I think Floyd should have did it, you know, like that. Now he's fucking fighting Mike Tyson, dude. Come on, man. I know. There were some rumors around that Floyd was going to have a rematch with Conor, which is crazy. But I think Conor would probably do it, especially if there weren't any drug testing involved. I wonder if he's going to come back for sure. Yeah. But, man, to heal from an injury like he had, you probably need a bunch of stuff to – I don't know the ins and outs of that, but you probably need some help to heal. He definitely needed some help to heal. The problem is once you get used to that help and you enjoy it.

42:42Yeah, I'm getting used to the help. I know. That's what I thought about Cowboy when he got jacked and he was like he's going to – he slimmed back down again. He said he was going to fight again. But I think he might have abandoned that. I got hooked up with Brigham and Ways to Well. They did all my blood when I retired and got me. I turned down no testosterone for me. So I'm not on any testosterone. I just don't want to mess up my natural production. Because mine wasn't high, but it wasn't low. I'm just scared to mess with it. Yeah, you don't need it. And it's peptides. I'm 37. It can do a lot for you.

43:11Yeah, I'm on a bunch of peptides. Yeah, peptides are the way to go. And I feel great. Honestly, I wish I could have been on this shit when I was fighting, man. I know. Especially like the growth hormone releasing stuff. Like Tessamoralin. Exactly. CGC, I from Maryland. I could have pushed hard every day, man. As I got older, it got harder, man. I know. And all it does is help your body recover. It's not like it gives you some sort of a performance-enhancing boost. I know it definitely helps with fat mobilization and stuff like that. But just being able to push hard every day is huge in fighting, man.

43:45But just BPC-157, which offers no performance-enhancing, but would help you heal soft tissue injuries. Because you're getting injured. You're just getting small injuries every day training. Every time you get leg kicked, every time you get punched in the stomach. Arm barred, shoulder locked. Everything. Everything. Your joints are always messed up. Always. Yeah. Always. And if you wanted fighters to perform better, something that would allow them to heal better is only good. And it's not going to make you run faster. It's not going to make you jump higher. It's not going to make you an Uber-eam.

44:16We're not talking about that. And I'm not even sure if that's banned. I haven't checked. It is? BBC 157 is banned. Wow. Yeah. That's unfortunate. Yeah, creatine, protein powders, that's the same stuff. You just recover better. Well, creatine's not banned. Creatine's not banned, thank God. But creatine in the 1990s was thought of the same way as steroids. Right, yeah, yeah, I remember. People thought, like, creatine's cheating. Oh, my God, you're taking creatine. They literally put it in the same category as steroids, and then they realized, oh, it's actually a part of food. It's great for your brain.

44:45It's actually good for you. Great for everything. Yeah. I just talked my wife into starting creatine. Women need it more than men, I was reading. Right. I read that too. So my wife's just done. I think the key is to make sure you're hydrated too and to make sure you're not taking too much of it and make sure you get your blood checked and so you're not putting a lot of pressure on your kidneys. But dehydration and kidneys, that is one of the big things that happens to a lot of fighters that cut a lot of weight. They start getting kidney stones. I mean, Jose Aldo dealt with that. DC famously got pulled out of the Olympics.

45:18Oh, yeah. Because he was having kidney failure. Yeah. Yeah. Your kidneys, man, they don't like you being drained out like that. I've had a few weight cuts where I felt pain in my back, and I think that's kidneys. 100%, man. It's kidney shots. Didn't happen often, but I've definitely had it. Tightness. It feels kind of like cramping in a weird place you never had before in your back. Isn't that spooky? You're drying out your organs. And then fighting for your life. Crazy. 24 hours. It was nice, though, when I started making it to the top of the cards, co-main event, main event, because then you have like 30-something hours to rehydrate.

45:48If you're fighting early prelims in Vegas, two or three in the afternoon, it's not too long. Especially back in the day when weigh-ins were at 5 or 6 p.m. There wasn't a morning in ceremonial. The real weigh-ins were at 5 and you were going to fight at 2 the next day. Yeah, those were nuts. That was crazy. Yeah, it was crazy when guys would shuffle to the scale for the real weigh-in. You'd see them all like a skeleton. And you're facing off with your opponent trying to be tough, both dying. Well, I always remember Jose Aldo versus Conor. Conor looked like he was one of the Walking Dead. Yeah. He looked like a zombie.

46:25He was so skinny. His face bones. Yeah. See if you can find that. And he was also crazy. Like, ah! Yeah. Like flexing. He's always crazy. Hyped up with no body fat, no water, just completely dehydrated. Like, look at that. Look at that. The eyes sunken in. That is nuts. That guy weighed 145, and he probably weighed 170 or at least 165 when he got into the actual octagon that day. If he does come back, I wonder what he's going to come back at, lightweight or welter. Well, the real key is if. If. I mean, he's had a lot of opportunities, and I don't know. I thought the Chandler fight was a layup for him.

47:06That's the fight. A great matchup for him. Great fight technically. It's a great fight stylistically. It's a great fight age-wise. Chandler's got to be, what, 39? now. He's up there 38 or 39. Yeah. I mean, and then there was the hype of the Ultimate Fighter. True. But it's just a layup for Conor. Chandler's hittable, covers distance, not that technically, you know, huge movements. Right. You jump in, you get carried out. Conor's a sniper, man. I just think that's a great matchup for him. It's also a great matchup for Chandler because he doesn't get tired. And he gets that, you know, because he sat out for two years waiting on Conor.

47:39It's also like, remember him with Oliveira? Even in the fucking third round, that dude is carrying Oliveira up. And throwing him through the air and body slamming him while he's on his back. Yeah. Like, the dude, he has incredible endurance and incredible discipline. For sure. He's always fit. Yeah. And that's been Conor's Achilles heel, is that Conor, he's so explosive and so fast that if you're sprinting in that first round, guaranteed you're not going to have that same kind of energy in the fifth round. Yeah. But some guys are just designed like that. You know, you saw Taron Woodley. He's a guy who has a huge explosion.

48:12But they don't necessarily keep that for 25 minutes. But on the opposite side of that, you got a guy like Nate Diaz who will keep that same pace from round one to five. Round 30. Yeah. That dude could fight. Or a hectic lombard. Right. Out of a cannon, you know, and then slow down. Just the way muscles and fibers are put, you know, connected. I don't know what does that to a human. Well, the only guys that figured out how to fight with all that bulk and just is like Yoel Romero. He fought very smart. It was just like calm. Still fighting. Still fighting. Dude, still fighting. Jack. 50 years old.

48:45Jacked. More jacked than ever. Yeah. 48 years old, 49 years old with abs, looking like a fucking super athlete. I think he's doing bare knuckle, maybe. Yeah, he did bare knuckle. He did dirty boxing. There's a fight where he had in dirty boxing where he's touching the dude up, and then out of nowhere, he just leaps up into the air. He does like a vertical. He's like a five-foot vertical, lands on his feet and just starts putting on a dude. He's like, I'm tired of this. Let me show you what I can really do. I've had fun playing with the food. I've had fun. He's a crazy – he's been on the mats a bunch at American Top Team as well.

49:20And just a freak athlete, man. Freak. He's the freak of all freaks. Just a freak athlete. Yeah. I mean, he came out of that Cuban program. They build them different over there. Yeah, they build them with science. Yeah. Yeah. But he also figured out how to pace himself. You know, he figured out how to, like, explode out of nowhere but not explode the entire time. Like he had this casual almost he would lull you into a false sense of security and then just pounce on you. Right. Like that knee he hit with Weidman with? Dude, that was a perfect example. Perfect example because you get used to this kind of pace.

49:55You get into the rhythm and then you just break it up. But also he didn't fight like obviously he's a wrestler. He didn't wrestle too, too hard and really gas himself out. He fought smart to do what he's good at. Explode. He barely used his wrestling in MMA, which is so crazy. Yeah. It's really crazy if you think about how good of a wrestler he was. Right. Because he was one of the best wrestlers to ever compete in MMA. I mean, that dude was elite as a wrestler. And in MMA, he's just starching people. Yeah. When Luke Rockhold starched Luke, like, that was crazy. Luke's another guy still fighting, I think.

50:29I think he might be done now. You know, when he got knocked out by Darren Till in the boxing, I think that might be it. I think that might be it. And Darren Till's got a resurgence, man. As a boxer, he looks fucking fantastic. I saw the highlights of that, but I haven't seen a whole lot. Bro, he looks real good. But he's always been a good striker. Very good striker. And his Achilles heel has been his knees. You know, he's had some serious knee problems and it really impeded him from being able to train hard. He wasn't the best grappler in the world. And so that was always his problem. But as a striker, I mean, that guy was, like, very, very good.

51:06And you're seeing him now in boxing. Like, he's making a real run. I think it's very interesting because if you watch him box Rockhold and you realize, like, Rockhold's a really good striker. But against Darren Till, he looked like he had no business in there. That's something I would like to do, man, box. Still? I always wanted to have a couple before I've, you know, but I'm still under contract. Even though I'm retired, I still have a contract with the UFC. Do you think the UFC would let you out? Or they have Zufa boxing now? Dude, trust me, I already pitched it to them. Did you? Me and Nate Diaz, Zufa boxing, let's go.

51:37Let's go. 170, whatever, 168, super middleweight, let's do it. They don't want any crossover. What? I think Zufa wants to be taken as a serious— Do they hate money? They must hate money. Do they hate money? They hate money. Why do they hate money? I don't know. They want to be taken by the boxing world serious. And I think if you open that door of an MMA guy fighting under Zufa boxing, every guy on the roster, every girl on the roster is going to want to do the same. It just becomes a mess, I think. I don't know about that. I don't think it's a mess. I think there are some really fun MMA boxing matchups you can make.

52:08Fuck yes. Fuck yes. Especially when guys get older and, you know, you don't want to go through the training camp with wrestling and leg kicks and all that shit. That's the thing. Like, thinking about a boxing training camp, dude, with no grappling, no wrestling, just run, condition, and box, it would be smooth sailing. Like a vacation for you. I love it. Isn't it funny? I'm on the beach. As tough as boxing is, like, for you, like, oh, this is going to be so nice. I only have to box. That's great. Yeah. Honestly, man, in training camp, those are my favorite days. Striking, sparring is my favorite days.

52:37Like, the wrestling classes, two-hour Mako on Monday. It's, like, brutal, bro. Well, it would be great for you because you've always had great hands. Like, for you, that's a perfect carry. Well, I started boxing before mixed martial arts. That would be a perfect way for you to get some other fights in. I don't understand Zufa. Yeah. I would just love to lace them up and box professionally once. I know they want to, like, redo boxing. And I know they want to, like, and I think there's probably some real merit there. Obviously what the Saudis have done with Riyadh's season has been amazing. You know, making matchups that no one can make.

53:14I'm a big Conor Bent fan too, man. I'm excited to see him fight in Zufa. And the guy he's fighting is from New Orleans. Like, I know the guy. Like, you know, it's fun. It is exciting. And it will definitely, I think they will elevate boxing. And Dana is throwing all of his cards into that, so I'm sure it's going to work. Yeah, I'm glad we're seeing more boxing, Zufa boxing and less power slap on my feed whenever I go to online stuff. Yeah, I'm not a big fan. I've never been to one, but man, it's just not my jam. Yeah. When I fought my retirement in New Orleans, Mike Brown went to the power slap they had there, and he said it was awesome in person.

53:49Oh, sure. It's awesome to watch someone get slapped, but I'm not interested. I watch it on my fucking phone every now and then I mean the highlights are good enough you see the knockouts and the crazy stuff it's great TikTok content for sure you watch someone get slapped and they go forward and their head hits the desk and they fall backwards but it's like it's a concussion and you can't there's no defense you can't flinch it's a penalty if you do it that's crazy that don't make any sense to me I don't get it but I think they've missed out on the opportunity to have a Muay Thai league. That's what I think.

54:26America just doesn't buy into it that big. I don't think that's true. No? No. No. I just think they haven't been served correctly. Well, I mean, one is doing it on Amazon. Yeah. But it's like, who's watching Amazon? That's the problem. You have a show on Amazon. I know guys who've released comedy specials on Amazon. Good luck finding it. Nobody cares. That's just the reality of this platform. I mean, look, Amazon is a phenomenal platform for buying stuff. I love it for buying things. I use it all the time. Every week. It's great for buying books, audio books. It's great for buying products. But for watching content, it's kind of a mess.

55:00They had a couple big shows like The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and The Terminalist. Those are great shows. And those brought a lot of people over there. But, I mean, you know how big The Terminalist would have been if it was on Netflix? As big as it was on Amazon? More people watch Netflix than are ever going to watch anything on Amazon. That's why what Jake's doing with the Netflix and bringing boxing, MMA there, like it's big, man. It's big. So many people are going to be watching this. 100%. But I think that if one was somewhere else, I think it would have been. There you go. We're on the way here today.

55:32What? Yeah, that got announced this morning. An MMA fight? Yeah, it's the third fight on that card now. That's the Rousey card, yeah. Oh, wow. Interesting. That's very interesting. That's very interesting. That's a good fight. Dude, you said a lot of people don't go to Amazon to watch TV. I just went down a rabbit hole for weeks because I have a newborn at home. So I did the night shift and I ran out of shit to watch on Netflix and Hulu. How do you run out of shit to watch on Netflix? Dude, staying up till 4 a.m. every night with a baby boy is like hours of documentaries, hours of stuff. I switched over to Amazon and it was like a whole new world, man.

56:08Well, there's a lot on there. It's just they don't have the same viewers. Like our podcast is on Amazon. The numbers that we get from Amazon compared to everywhere else is so small. It's just the reality of the way they've sort of marketed it. And Amazon Prime Video just doesn't have the audience that everything else does. Right. And it's such a big platform. You'd think it would be crossover. I think it's a mistake on their part because the product side is so big. And Amazon for buying stuff is so big that it's almost like an afterthought. That they have video. Some money in it, but not the same sort of focus.

56:43Also, the interface, when I've gone to it, is a little weird. It's hard to find things. It's not as simple. The interface on Netflix is like the algorithm is great. It's really good at recommending you things. It knows what you like. It shows you things. It's easy to find things. For sure. Amazon is a little tricky. You go there and you're like, what? But see, the One FC thing faces the same problem the PFL has. Like, look, PFL is on ESPN+. You would imagine PFL would get the same sort of audience that the UFC got. But it doesn't. No, of course not. Because the UFC brand is like NFL. The machine.

57:21It's just. Yeah, they own that space. But the fights on 1FC are fucking amazing. Like, especially the Muay Thai fights. With the small gloves. Oh, my God, man. And I was trying to pitch this to Dana. So I started sending Dana. He goes, send me some. So I started sending him all these high-level Muay Thai fights and high-level kickboxing fights. And they're fucking phenomenal. Look, he didn't like the Charles Oliveira, this Max Holloway Charles Oliveira fight. He didn't like it. The BMF fight, the fight wasn't that good. I was like, I thought it was a great fight. It was impressive if you were a fan of technique and a fan of how hard it is to do that to somebody like Max.

58:04Like, super impressive. And I was a fan of Max's defense. I mean, Oliveira was on his back in the first round. A lot of people would have got finished there. First minute and a half, I think. Yes. You know, dry. Dry, right. I got finished there. Yeah, I mean. I think Oliveira's one of the greatest submission artists that ever competed in the sport. Yeah. If not the best. Numbers, I mean, numbers prove it. Yeah. And against elite guys like you and like Justin. And like, he's fucking good. And then Gamrot. Dude, Gamrot is, I trained with him for years. He's a wrestler, but his grappling is incredible, man.

58:36He got tied up in knots with Oliveira. Oliveira's a nightmare. I knew it could happen, but I didn't think it would be that. I was stunned, too. I was like, God, he's good. He's so good on the ground. So, like, props to Max for surviving. But if Data didn't like it, so I started sending him. For the, I mean, when you have the title, the BMF, like, you want to see some violence. I understand, but it's still just a fight. You can't fight outside of your comfort zone. Just because of BMF belts on the line, you can't go out swinging for the fences. But I get it. I get what you're saying. Yeah. But, I mean, on the feet, I think Olivera was winning on the feet, too.

59:09Dude, he hurt Max in the first. I think he hurt him in the fifth. Well, he definitely hurt him in the fifth when they did the point down on the ground thing. Yeah. And then he cracked him and rocked him. Olivera's fucking good, man. He is, man. He's so good. He's just known we put the label on the grappler because he's finished so many guys and so many bonuses. But he can strike, man. He's good everywhere. Like with the Chandler fight. He almost gets finished in the first round, comes back and hits it with a clean left hook in the second. He's fucking good, man. Yeah, knocked him out. Even when I fought him, he did a good job of picking where the fight happened.

59:37He wouldn't fight me in boxing range. It was either all the way in clinch or out where he was keeping my body, staying long. Kicking range or clinching range is kind of where he fought me. The times I did have success was in the boxing range, but he didn't let that happen. Well, this shows you how fucking good Ilya Duporia is. Fuck. God damn that dude. Dude, I love Justin. I'm a fan. I don't like this matchup for him. Well, you know what? I mean, Justin knows what he's getting into, and it's hard to count that dude out. He's such an animal. Yeah, he can land the shot. And it's in the White House.

1:00:08Who knows? Who knows what's going to happen? But that dude has the touch of death. He has the touch of death. And he's not a big guy. I've never seen him in person, but I was talking to somebody recently, and they said, no, he's 5 '7". He's small, man. He's not big. I mean, there's a photo of me standing next to him when we did the podcast. We're standing next to him. He's much smaller than me. And, bro, he puts people into the shadow realm. Yeah. It's just technique and confidence. His confidence is crazy. He had a victory party for the Oliveira fight the night before. Drinking wine. I saw it.

1:00:42I don't think he was drinking wine. No? I think he was drinking water the night before. But he has drank wine in weigh-ins when he's getting ready to weigh in. Or the weight cut. He only did that for two camps, he told me, though. He said, it's too much. I was just fucking hung over the next day. Like, what am I doing? Right. And you're about to get your brain beat up. You're dehydrating your drink. Come on. Well, I think he's dehydrating himself. And he said the wine actually helps you get dehydrated. Yeah. Alcohol definitely does. Yeah. Which is. But it's. Nobody does that. Nobody drinks wine for the weigh-ins.

1:01:10That's crazy. No, bro. And like. I'm so. I'm not drinking anything. I'm so depleted by that time. I know. And he's getting hammered. Lucky. And winning world championships. Well, it was only two fights he did that for. So it became like something where people are pretending he does it every way in. He's got all these young fighters out there in the world drinking on one day. I'm going to be like the champ, man. Yeah. But he's crazy talented. For sure. In a weird way. Whatever it is, he has it. It. He has it. He's got it in his mind. He's got it in his technique. His grappling's fun. I watched a video of him grappling with Merab, and he was all over Merab.

1:01:46It was crazy. That's what they say. His grappling's just as good, if not better, than his stand-up. That's where he started. He started as a grappler. I've never seen him grapple, though. Well, he finished Bryce Mitchell on the ground, and he's finished a few people on the ground. He does clearly have phenomenal submission ability. What are you showing me here? What is this, him? He says he's done it for a long time. You can see his face is already sucked in a little bit. He said that when he was on the podcast, though, that he only did it twice. Three years ago. That's hilarious. He's all tipsy and drunk.

1:02:21Look, I tell this to young fighters. There's no right. I mean, obviously, don't smoke crack before a fight. There's no right or wrong way. Everybody's different. Whatever makes you feel comfortable to perform and compete, everybody's different. If there was a cookie cutter, perfect way to work, everybody would do it. Look at Carlos Prontez. Yeah, exactly. Smoking cigs. Smoking cigarettes like the day of the fight. He's sitting there smoking Marlboro Reds. Darts. Who was the boxer? Fucking everybody up. Back in the day. Oh, yeah. Mayorga. Mayorga. Ricardo Mayorga. Yes. Yes, he would smoke cigarettes.

1:02:52Yeah, drinking fucking, Carlos drinking whiskey, smoking cigs. He's like, I'm always going to party and always going to fuck people up. Respect. Yeah, I mean, he's going to fight. Is he fighting Jack Della Maddalena? Is that the fight? I'm not sure. I believe that's the fight in Perth. That is a very good fight. Yeah. A tough one for Jack to come back to, man. I was in MSG when Islam took the belt from him, dude. Complete domination. Well, that's another guy. Complete domination. How good is that guy? And Ilia was talking about fighting him, too. You know, the size difference would be so big. So big.

1:03:25Islam is huge. He's huge. He's huge. He's too big for 55, and then you see him at 170. Like, how did you ever make 55? Right, right. Because he's so dominant at 170. Yeah, Hunter from the UFC, I was in his office not too long ago, and they keep record of all the weights fight night. They don't release them all, but they keep it. And we were talking about the Islam fight when I fought Islam, and he was telling me his weight. I was like, that's sick. What did he weigh? 192 or something, I think. The day of the fight? I think so, yeah. That's crazy. Something, 190, 191, something around there. That's crazy.

1:03:58I was 176. That's crazy. But it looks like it in the cage. I know, I looked across under those spotlights and they had veins in his shoulders and shit. I'm like, fuck, this guy's huge. The ones where I'm like, how? Gregory Rodriguez is the one where I'm like, how? Yeah. How? How? How are you 185? How? You're 6 '3". You're built like a Greek god. how? How do you ever weigh 185? How is that even possible? Whenever I interview him, I'm like, how? Right. Because I'm standing next to you, and I'm like, that doesn't make any sense. You're not a 185-pound guy. You're huge. Like in his prime when Luke Rocco was a champion?

1:04:36He's huge, man. Huge. Huge. 185? Yeah. Yoel Romero's the best example. Like, how? How are you 185? Build like an anvil, dude. Solid all the way through. When he came in to do the podcast and Joey Diaz translated for him, he was like 230. Yeah. Just like his neck starts at the top of his head. Just a tank. And shredded always. Shredded? No jiggle. Dude, shredded always. Veins in his abs, like crazy. Yeah, and he was talking about the Cuban program. I'll never forget. It was like talking about how they have the lower level guys only eat twice a day, but the top level guys eat three times a day. and so everybody is competing literally for food crazy you say that in angola prison in louisiana there's a boxing league if you're on the boxing league and get accepted into it you get more meals and stuff so the same thing these these prisoners are like trying their best to stay on this boxing league you get more meals more time more free time wow they actually fight other prisons man whoa i was thinking this would be a great documentary to come out with that would be a great document and it's cctv to the other prisons so other prisons can watch in their cells whoa they bus them to angola other prisons in louisiana they box they put out a schedule every year if you ever want to go to one it's invite only but i i'd rather watch at home it's bro it feels it feels illegal dude it feels illegal well it might not be legal in other states yeah it might not be legal in louisiana i might be getting in trouble for saying this is anybody any good Hell yeah.

1:06:08Well, you think Bernard Hopkins came out of jail? I mean, the guy, obviously, Tyson beat him, but the Black Rhino was an Angola boxing prisoner who got out or pardoned to fight Mike Tyson. Really? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Wow. That's crazy. I did not know that. So do they have a program where they have coaches? They have to. Do they have equipment and everything? Wow. And different, according to the schedule, they'll bus them to the other prisons to fight. and it's played through all the prisons in Louisiana. Man, you find a highly skilled guy who's in that program. And they let them go, bro. They've got nothing to lose.

1:06:44The refs, they're legitimate refs, but they let the fights go, man. What kind of nutrition are they getting, though? Are they getting prison food? Yeah. Or are they getting any better food? No, prison food, but they're getting more meals. They get to eat extra. Still terrible food, right? Yeah. Yeah, Angola's a crazy prison, man. Grow all the food there, make all the clothes there. They grow their food there? Yeah. So maybe their food's not that bad. Self-sustaining. I'm sure they ship a bunch of stuff in, but they do have crops. And it's such a big operation that the guards and the staff live on the prison grounds.

1:07:15There's an elementary school. Really? Yeah. The guards, kids and stuff go to school on the grounds. It's wild, man. Oh, that can't be good. It's wild. Every October, they have the rodeo there. An article about that boxing association from 2011. Wow. Some photos and an interview with some people, I think, that were part of it. Well, you want to focus. You know, women weakened legs, ain't no women in there, dog. Hell no. That's crazy. Yeah, serious business, man. I did not know that. That's nuts, man. Yeah, how come no one's done a documentary on this, or have they? I know. Well, B-Hop was a prison boxer in Philly, right?

1:07:55Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, this would be a great documentary, man. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, Bernard learned, I mean, learned, like, real discipline in prison and also learned that he never wants to go back, which is as important. And I think Angola's like maximum security, so you don't go there if you have less than like 25 years or something. So these guys are in there for a long time just trying to find things to do and boxing, eating extra, getting more free time. Why wouldn't you do it? Also, it just keeps you focused. You have something to concentrate on other than the fact that you're in jail. Yeah.

1:08:30Yeah. It was wild, bro. They set up a ring like in a cafeteria. I went there once to watch it. It was insane. It felt like I was doing something wrong. It felt like I was doing something wrong. Were the guys good? Fuck yeah. Some of them were good, man. Wow. Really good. Wow. Fuck. That's interesting. They pardoned that guy. Who's the Black Rhinos? There's titles too. They have belts. The Black Rhinos. Clifford maybe? ATN. Yes. Yes. That's right. So he was in prison boxing in Angola and he fought Tyson. Wow. No shit. Yeah. I mean, why not, man? At least it gives them something to focus on. The idea is like, oh, you're going to make a more dangerous felon.

1:09:09Bro, they're dangerous. Yeah. They're dangerous. They're in there for murder. What do you think? What do you think? They're in there for armed robbery, murder. Like, let them fight. Right. Doing life. Right. Exactly. Like, also, we try to pretend that that's not going to improve the quality of their life and improve them as a human being. Like, doing something difficult, even if it's difficult and violent like fighting, will make you a better human being. For sure. It'll make you tougher, smarter, more disciplined, more focused. Also, release all the aggression there so you don't have aggression in, like, regular altercations nearly as much.

1:09:43Yeah. That's where I'm at right now. Like, leaving fighting in the rear view is like, what do I do with my life now? Are you still training at all? Dude, I've been traveling so much. Twice a week, maybe. If I'm home on Friday, I do open mat jiu-jitsu. A couple kickboxing classes if I can make it. But I've just been traveling so much, man. Why have you been traveling so much? Sponsors, appearances, cornering buddies, like just saying yes to everything that I couldn't before. Right, right. I'm more busy now, I think, because before I would shut everything down. Like, I got to get ready for this fight.

1:10:14I have to focus on this. No, I can't do anything. Black out these dates. Now it's like. You're really good on the desk, man. I enjoy, man. I really do enjoy. You can tell. Yeah. I mean, I think that's one of the best things that the UFC does with former fighters is they giving this opportunity to do stuff on the desk i think that's huge i i hope they keep bringing me i just signed a contract for the year um when it was espn i was kind of doing like independence contractor stuff they would ask me i would say yes but i'm on contract with ufc for a year so hopefully they keep bringing me man i all the people behind the scenes just being around the event that i've you know i've fought at for so long it just makes me feel good yeah and i get nervous because it's live tv you can't fuck up you know live tv is different well i would like to see they allow more of you guys to take the spots doing fights in commentary.

1:11:03Oh, like color? Yeah, yeah. I mean, right now it's just Dominic Cruz, Paul Felder, Michael Bisping, and DC. That's essentially it. Yeah. I mean, those are the only former fighters from the UFC that are doing it. And I really think there's room for more guys. Yeah. Dan Hardy was great. Yeah, for sure. He was awesome at it. Yeah, he was. I don't know what the fuck happened with him in the UFC. They had some sort of a squabble, and he left. But he's fantastic over at PFL. He's still with them? Yeah. Yeah, he does that. He's really good, man. He's a smart— Yeah, he breaks stuff down. Very good. Yeah, for sure.

1:11:36Very good. And he's a great guy. I've known him forever. He was a 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu guy, so I've known him since, like, fuck, I must have met him 20 years ago. Wow. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah, before he was fighting GSP, before he was fighting any of those guys. I knew him. Yeah. He would come over from England to train in America. He was such a knockout artist, we never really get to see him do jiu-jitsu. Yeah, no, he was good at jiu-jitsu too, man. I mean, he trained hard. And he's just a very smart dude who knows a lot about the sport. Yeah, it seems like it. When he's breaking down stuff, you can tell he's studied.

1:12:08He's also just like a very skillful commentator because he's very intelligent. And the way he describes things, it's exciting. I mean, I think he's, I don't know what happened with him. And when I'm on the desk with those guys, I try my best to not break things down too much. Like on the stat side, I try to make it seem like a conversation sitting on the couch watching Fights with Your Boys, where I talk about experiences that I've had and stuff because they explained it to me. Like that's what fans want to see. If they want to look up stats, they'll go look it up. They don't want to hear you talk about submission attempts and exact stats.

1:12:41They want to know your experience. So like each rep, I think I'm getting better, you know, opening up and being more myself. I'm trying to do a good job, man. I really, really enjoy it. I think stats are interesting sometimes, but what's really more important than that is like a technical breakdown of abilities. Because stats, it's variable depending on who you're fighting. Like you take Charles Oliveira's stats and then you say his fight with Islam Makachev. And you say, okay, well, where's the stats? Like it's really dependent upon skill sets, who's your level of competition, who you're competing with.

1:13:13Yeah. You know what I mean? That was a quick submission though. Bro. The stats are one submission to tilt, one submission. Bro, he's got a crushing squeeze. It's different, bro. You can speak to that. Yeah, he strangled me. And the way he did it, I think Moicano filled in last minute to fight Islam and got caught with the same choke. It's kind of like a darts choke, but he locks it on his forearm. He doesn't go to the bicep. I know. And the squeeze is different. He's pulling to his chest. It's not like an angle squeeze. It's different. So the defense is different. When I got my legs out and tried to walk around, he hooked my leg, but the squeeze is completely different.

1:13:49Completely different. You know you belly down and kind of get some space to breathe? You can't the way he does it. Craig Jones broke it down. It's like a front choke, almost like a squeeze to your chest. It's not an angle that you use for a normal darts choke. I know. I was shocked the first time I saw him do it. I was like, maybe he just couldn't cinch up the bicep. Then I saw him do it a second time. I was like, no, this guy's trying to do it that way. He grabs right here, right? Craig Jones did an awesome. There's some breakdown of it on YouTube where it explains why it's effective and what's so good about it.

1:14:22And when he gets the grip locked in, it's complete immediate blood shutdown. You know, usually you feel it slowly fading away. It was like right away. Wow, so that dude's got a back. Like the whole start. Drive-through movie on. The darkness started coming in as soon as he got the grip. Really? Yeah. He's so fucking strong, man. There's like something about those Dagestan guys, man. Like, the discipline those motherfuckers have. Yeah. You know, there's Dagestan guys that are making their way into Muay Thai now, too. There's this dude, Asadullah Imam Ghazaleev. I talk about him all the time, but I can't talk about him enough.

1:14:58He's one of those one FC guys that is fighting in Muay Thai from Dagestan. And this fucking kid is 22 years old, and he's knocking out, like, multiple-time World Thai champions. I've never seen him. Bro. This dude is a freak. I mean, he's just putting people into the shadow realm every fight. Dude, it's so wild to fight four-ounce gloves in Muay Thai. I know. But, I mean, you can throw elbows and stuff and knees. It's perfect. It's like four-ounce gloves. I mean, look, you're throwing elbows, knees, everything else in the clinch. It allows you to grapple better. It just makes it so much more dangerous for the blocking.

1:15:36You don't have the gloves covering all the space around your ears. But this cat is special, man. He's special. Nasty buddy. And he's from Dagestan. It's like, okay, imagine if this motherfucker gets into MMA, everybody's fucked. If this guy can wrestle at all, which you know he can if he's from fucking Dagestan. Well, they do a lot of kickboxing for Sambo, right? Yeah. This dude's something, though. He's something new. Oh, my God. Because he's 22 years old. And he's like world Muay Thai champions. He's sleeping them all. Yeah. It's nuts, man. What weight is that? 145. I think he's 145 or 35. Probably tall and lean 132?

1:16:16Is that what it says? This thing right here says Weight limit 132.7 Interesting 5 '10 Interesting Well at that weight And then you think about one has some crazy thing Look at this, win, knockout, win, knockout He's a freak man And that one dude that made it to the unanimous decision Is this kid from Morocco? who's just tough as shit, but god damn, he took a beating. They have such a great product, man. I wonder how many viewers and how the ratings are. I mean, it's big in Asia, but they have financial struggles. I don't want to speak to it because I don't know enough, but there's a lot of talk.

1:16:57I know they wanted to start doing shows in America. They've done a few. Yeah. I know they did one in Colorado. They maybe have done multiple. I'm not aware. But it's a great product. That's the thing. It's like I love watching their kickboxing fights on YouTube. and that kid yuki yoza that i was telling you about that throws calf kicks he's fucking everybody up with calf kicks and there's another guy from a lot of these kyokushin guys especially in kickboxing so like they have different rule sets over there in one you can fight kickboxing where they use big gloves or you could fight muay thai where they use little gloves and i think they've had muay thai fights where they have big gloves too so in the kickboxing you're not allowed to clinch not a to throw elbows.

1:17:39But you can throw knees, but you can't clinch and just continue to throw knees, and you can't sweep and you can't take guys down. It's a little confusing. I think Muay Thai is the way to go. But the thing about kickboxing in Japan is like they just wanted to, that's what K1 was. They're like, let's just take out all the clinching and make this as exciting as possible. What's the best way to do that? And the elbows, elbows are very effective, obviously, and knock a lot of guys out, but also cut a lot of people open and stop fights prematurely, which is why Pride didn't allow elbows, which is really crazy when you think about that.

1:18:15Because Pride had soccer kicks and stomps. But you were fighting multiple times. True. Cuts, you know, if you get cut in the first fight, it could change everything. I think that makes sense. I kind of, but I mean, soccer kicks? Stomps and soccer kicks with no elbows? Yeah, yeah. It's hard to say. And knees to a grounded guy. Yeah. Yeah. Ground and prong elbows are so effective. It's so important. I mean, it really, like, guys that think they're comfortable and safe in the guard, you're not. You're not when a guy can still bust you up with elbows from a short distance. It's a very effective technique.

1:18:47Yeah, very damaging cut. Yeah. Yeah, very, very damaging technique. Well, there's a real problem with the cage, and the problem is the wall. Like, the fence is an artificial structure that keeps you from being able to move. and I've always said this I think it should be an open mat it should be a large mat and you should you should not like a wrestling mat yeah like a big wrestling mat like think about a basketball game like think about how much space is on a basketball court and you still get 16 ,000 people in there to watch a basketball game guys would be I would think running around a lot of maybe you get penalty penalty for moving too much maybe you have red zones like pride yeah you have a red zone yellow card or well you have a you have a center that you're supposed to stay in, and then you have a red zone outside of it, and then you have a black zone outside the red zone where you get points taken away.

1:19:36You enter into the red zone too many times, you get a warning for the first time, another warning for the second time, third time you get a point taken away. So you can use it once or twice to evade, but then you've got to go back into the area where you're supposed to fight. I think that would be cool. How big of an area are you talking about? Basketball court. That's too big, man. That's too big. How about football? How about football fucking field? That's too big. there. That's too big. They're doing that with no rules fights. Yeah? Yeah, I watch a lot of no rules fights. The Russian stuff?

1:20:05They're so scary because guys just mount guys and gouge their eyes out. They're mounting people and just shoving their fingers in their eyes and guys are screaming and tapping and it's like, oh. I run across some pretty crazy stuff on IG sometimes. From those crazy shows. But they're fighting in parking lots. They're fighting on phone booths, cars, upside down, underwater. They're fighting everywhere. They're fighting everywhere. I saw them on a cargo container floating on top of water. Where you get knocked off. That's crazy. It's so ridiculous. American Gladiators. You get KO'd and you fall into the water and you just breathe water and they don't rescue you in time.

1:20:38Just fight with those kid floaties on. If you get knocked out, you just float to the top. Instead of those Muay Thai things. Blow them up. Kid floaties on your arm. Your corner's blowing them up. Yeah. But I think the cage. You know how the UFC BJJ is that sloped surface? A perfect example. Karate combat. Karate combat does that slope surface. That's a good one. And that's a big space they fight in, karate combat. Yeah. Something like that I think would be good. It would be better. There's something about the – but the problem is then you're backing up and you hit that ramp and you fall down. Or what was the old karate – it was like – I don't think it was Chuck Norris' league.

1:21:17Chuck Norris. Yeah. Chuck Norris' league. Something like that. Yeah. I think it was World Combat League or something like that. I went to see that one. WCF? Yeah. Something like that. World Combat Federation. Yeah. I think the first guy to do a slanted thing, though, was Frank Shamrock. You know, a lot of people don't realize that Frank Shamrock had an organization for a while. And they fought in, like, this sloped sort of thing. Fucking Kumite. I think he might have been the first guy. Frank was way ahead of his time. Way ahead of his time. And he's another guy that got erased from, because he had a falling out with the UFC.

1:21:53And he got kind of erased from the lineage of, like, elite fighters. He was from the past. Fighting older in Strikeforce, like still bodied up. I know. He was a student of martial arts. Yes. Yes. But by the time he got to Strikeforce, his kind of best days were behind him, like when Nick Diaz beat him up. Yeah. He wasn't the same guy. When he fought Phil Barone, he wasn't the same guy. He had a lot of knee problems. And it's like, he's just not. After a while. It's like, he might have been like 40s in Strikeforce. I don't know how old he was. Late 30s, 40s. Late 30s for sure. but when you go back to his fights in the UFC, I mean, he was a pioneer, man.

1:22:31When he fought Tito Ortiz, he was nowhere near Tito's size. And he just beat Tito with cardio, just cardio and defense. And then eventually wore his ass down and beat him up and changed Tito's entire strategy for fighting after that. He was one of the guys early who was like super fit, super, you know, really focused on his health and nutrition and supplementation and everything. Back then you didn't see a whole lot of that, but he was one of the guys for sure. Well, the Lions Den, you know, Ken Shamrock's, the thing that they put guys through, this gauntlet that they put guys through in order to make the team, to make the fight team, was hell.

1:23:07It was just hell. They wanted guys to break. And so extreme conditioning, extreme mental toughness, like all that was emphasized. And so Frank was the best example of that, though, because he was elite everywhere. For sure. He was really taking guys down. He had great submissions. He had great striking. And, you know, he fought some wild fights, man. He fought Ensign. I don't remember where that was. Was that in K-1? But he beat Ensign with knees. Like, he had fought in multiple organizations. Obviously, he started out in Pancrase. Yeah. But he had only been training for, like, a year or something like that when he fought Boss Ruten in Pancrase.

1:23:50he was super fucking talented man why they let him wear boots right or some kind of leg yeah you had some weird shin pad deal with well you had wrestling shoes with shin pads right and open hand slaps you know yeah yeah it was always poem uh-huh yeah so what is this in does it say what it's in 2011 this says ufc it's not ufc oh it's valley tudow japan Yeah, this was before 2011. Yeah. Okay, so this is Valley Tudo, Japan. So Valley Tudo, Japan, I wonder if it's the same Valley Tudo that Hickson fought in. So Hickson was, you know, the champion of Valley Tudo, Japan early on. Well, that was like in the documentary Choke.

1:24:37You've seen that, right? Uh-huh. A long time ago, yeah. Documentary Rules. Yeah, man. That documentary Rules. That's how Hickson became a legend. Back in the real NHB, no rules days. Well, the first UFC that I went to was UFC 12 in Dothan, Alabama. And you could wear wrestling shoes. You could punch guys in the nuts, hair pulling, grab their clothes. No weight class? There was two weight classes back then. Because Vitor won the heavyweight tournament back then. I think they had two weight classes back then. So they still recognize that there's some smaller guys and some big guys. The smaller guys are real talented, but they're never going to beat the big giant guys.

1:25:21So let's have a weight class for them. Yeah. I remember renting VHS tapes with my dad of the old UOCs, dude. What got you into the sport? Like, how old were you when you first started martial arts training, period? 17. 17. That's late. Yeah. If you think about it, right? Well, I mean, if you want to call it wrestling, I wrestled for two years when I was 10 and 11 for a private club. We did, like, traveling Texas a lot, Louisiana, small club meets. But other than that, no combat sports, no martial art experience. How did you get into it? Boxing. When I was 17, I wanted to box. Always wanted to box.

1:25:54Started going to a boxing gym. Met some MMA guys there. Didn't know they had MMA where I was from. Then went to the MMA gym and never went back to the boxing gym. So what year are we talking? 2006, maybe? Oh, okay. So this was right when the UFC first started getting big. This is like, I remember when Stefan and Forrest did the big thing. This was like beginning around the time I was training. Boxing and mixed martial arts. So that wave, like I just never stopped. Wow. Yeah, man. What was it? The World Combat, like Chris Horidecki was over there. Ben Roth was over there. Remember? Yes. What was that?

1:26:31The team organization. That was big at the time. Right. IFL? IFL. Yes. Everybody had teams and stuff. That was weird. That was real big around that time. Yeah, I didn't know. That's where Dan Miller, Jim's brother, landed the grossest guillotine I've ever seen in my life. Have you ever seen this one? I don't think so. Oh, my God. It's the worst guillotine of all time. He gets this guy in a guillotine, traps his head in his chest, and bends his chest. So his head is connected to his own chest sideways. So like this. His head went all the way down and touched his chest. I don't even know how he stayed alive.

1:27:07Watch this. Watch this guillotine. There it is. Check this out. No, watch this guillotine. Look at that. Look at that. Bro. Jesus. Bro, how's that guy alive? He's not. Look at that. Look at that. How is he alive? Have you ever seen that before? Ever? Like, that's crazy. That is the craziest guillotine I've ever seen in my life. That's so crazy. Looks like his neck's broken, bro. How's he alive? Yeah. Like, first of all, why did it take so long for the referee to stop? Who's the referee? Steve Mazzucati. I don't know who it is, but you could have probably stopped that a couple of seconds earlier.

1:27:43But, I mean, it's just hard to imagine that a neck can go in that direction. Like, it's so – that doesn't show it. The other angle that you showed is really what showed it. Yeah. The other angle where you see it from the side, where you see his head. Like, when he cinches it up here, that is crazy. That – you're not supposed to bend like that. Your ear is never supposed to touch your chest. No. I don't know how it does. I don't know. I mean, it just seems like everything would break. It seems like you would never walk again. He's not, Dan's not fighting anymore, huh? No. Jim's still fighting. Jim's still rolling, man.

1:28:18Jim's still fighting. Still rolling. It's crazy. Most fights in UFC history. And still fine. No surgeries. No nothing. Yeah. Still durable. Did get beat up, was his last fight Bobby Green? That was the last time I think I saw him fight. I don't know if that was his last fight, but he definitely got beat up. He's definitely lost a step. I mean, he's 40 years old. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But man, dude still loves it. Still loves it. Respect to him, dude. Yeah. I mean. He sent me a cookbook. He came out with a cookbook. He's a big cook and hunter and stuff. He sent me a cookbook and a spatula. Oh, that's hilarious.

1:28:50It's like Captain Redbeard or Jimmy Redbeard on the spatula. It's like engraved into it. Fuck yeah. He's quite a character. Yeah, I like him. I like him, man. I like him a lot too. He's a very fun dude. And also complete wits about him. Doesn't have any problems mentally. You know, he's like. Seems like a hard worker. He's always on his farm doing stuff. Like you would never think he was a fighter if you didn't know. I know, right? Yeah. Yeah. He's a fascinating character. Well, the thing about this sport is that it like exceptional humans are exceptional at fighting. Like to be an exceptional fighter, you have to be an exceptional person.

1:29:23There's really no way around it. There's like it's too hard to do. You have to be a very unique kind of human being that can get through those camps, that can perform under the big lights, that can figure out how to keep getting better and evolve. For sure. And that type of stuff is like the last time I was on the show, what I was talking about, it's like a gift and a curse, man. It's like you have to be all in at something. Those kind of people who are built like that, whether it's fighting or drinking or whether it's good or bad, you're going all in. It's dangerous. That's the problem, yeah.

1:29:52The problem is like we see with Connor, when they don't have the fighting, then they go all in with the other things. Yeah, right. Fighting was always, for me, always pulled everything together, you know. That's why, like, retiring is scary, man. Feeding the fam isn't easy, but we got you with Denny's Slam and Meal Deals starting at$5.99. Full meals for everyone, like a Grand Slam burrito for Grandpa and a Super Slam for Super Mom. Get to Denny's now. Valid at participating locations for dine-in or denny's.com. Limited time offer. Additional restrictions may apply at some locations. Days are long.

1:30:21I have a lot of time. I don't have to get ready for a fight. You're still a young man, too. You still have a whole lot of life ahead of you. I'm 37, man. Yeah, so it makes you think, like, what do I do now? What do I do with my future? What do you want to do? Dude, I kind of got like for a week or so, I would say depressed, but I kind of got into like a funk. Like, what the hell am I going to do with my life? Every day I would wake up for the last 20 years. How can I be a better fighter? How can I, what's new in fitness? How can I push myself? I want to be the champion. And then boom, you lay the gloves on and you wake up and you're a fucking civilian.

1:30:51Like, it feels crazy. You know, it's like I'm relearning who I am. Like, I always knew fighting was just something I did. It wasn't who I was. but after 20 years of doing it even though you know that and you think that like it fuck I don't know who I am without fighting. How long did it take you I'm a father I'm a husband I'm a lot of things but like fighting was a cloud in my mind that never went away for 20 years and now I wake up and it's gone like what do I do? I'm still trying to find out Joe I don't know. Did you still get nervous when you would go to events? You know that feeling that you get like you.

1:31:26When I competed? No no no. Yeah dude. When you go to other events for other people yeah just feeling like you might have to compete dude my hands are sweaty yeah yeah that's weird right for sure i mean obviously it just happened to me last a couple weeks when max fought charles i was nervous i had armpit stains my hands were sweating i'm like dude i hope those people don't don't see this right because you feel like you're still there i'm connected to both these guys for some reason well you are forever yeah that's the thing that's what's so interesting about watching like old fighters even old boxers when they go to like hall of fame ceremonies and they've seen each other and hugging like those guys are connected in time forever yeah max came up to the desk and i was like we spent an hour of our lives fighting each other you know as hard as we could he didn't even know he's like no way an hour like yeah dude we went to two decisions two five-round decisions and we thought the first fight was a one or two rounds so it's an hour of fight yeah we spent an hour beating each other up that is crazy when you think about it an hour is a long time an hour is a long time to fight another man especially bearing your soul in front of the world it's not a regular hour just right out at the beach it's the biggest hour yeah yeah and it's an hour you're prepared for for months each time but because of that like like you were saying with the box it's like we know we have an unwritten thing we know about each other you know something we never spoke about but we know each other better than a lot of people do yeah you know when a person breaks and who doesn't break max doesn't break He doesn't break.

1:32:54No. I mean, you see it in that fight. I mean, how does he go through that whole round and not get submitted dry with Oliveira on his back and got close a few times? Like he's crushing his face. Like that old Shinyaoki where you go the angle. You can choke through the jaw. Oh, yeah, man. Guys go to sleep. Net crank, it'll choke you to sleep through the jaw. Well, even just a rear naked across your face, I've seen guys go to sleep. Yeah. They just go to sleep. You try not to tap and you just wake up and you're like, how did he choke me out over my face? Because it's like enough blood restriction.

1:33:27If you get enough torsion and crank, it'll cut off the vein or whatever. It'll put you out. It's enough, which is nuts. And it's so much pain on the jaw too. Oh, it's horrible. Choking, getting lack of oxygen to the brain is one thing. Like the jaw binding up against the bones. You know that sharp pain you get when somebody's face cranking you in your jaw? Oh, it's like hell. Yeah, it feels like it's going to dislocate. Yeah, well, that was the thing with Khabib and Conor where he did that torque crank where he got his neck and he cinched it up with the forearm behind the neck and pulls back like this.

1:33:59That is hell. And those guys squeeze is different, man. Those guys squeeze is different. Well, there's something about lifelong grapplers. There's like a density to them that's just different. The density, the strength, and just like the knowing of where to put the pressure and what angle to turn your hips to make a big difference. People outside don't even see it, but it's so crucial in the moment when somebody's on your back. And they just turn a little bit with the elbow rather than just squeeze straight on. Small things like that or when fights. I'll tell you the fight that I'm really looking forward to.

1:34:35Really looking forward to because I don't know what's going to happen. is Hamzat versus Strickland. I'm very interested in that fight. Strickland is a fucking nightmare standing up. For sure. He's a nightmare. For sure. When he did a Fluffy Hernandez, I was like, holy shit, man. The body shot, the finish. But he made Fluffy fight. You know, he fights at a slower pace. He has his own pace in there, and he kind of forces the other guy to fight. His opponent has to fight this pace with him. I think the best chance is to blitz him, do unorthodox things, because he wants to jab, circle, throw a kick, jab, circle.

1:35:10He keeps a very slow pace. He's not sprinting or trying to blast you out of there. He just chips away high guard, good shell. Yeah, very good shell. His defense is extraordinary. You know, one of the things he was telling me is, like, I spar more than anybody and I get hit less than anybody. And that is true. Like, if you think about how much that guy spars, it's a giant part of his training. Look at James Toney. He was hard to hit and all he did was spar. Yeah, right. Perfect example. There's something taught in those moments. 100%. Yeah. Understanding of distance, timing, pattern recognition.

1:35:42You're constantly in there, moving around. Right. It's like, and then there's also the cardio that comes from sparring. Yeah. It's different. Yeah. Because his cardio is almost entirely based on sparring. And, man, that motherfucker doesn't get tired in there. Right, right. And the Fluffy fight was like, I thought Fluffy was going to be a problem. I'm like, Fluffy's really good, man. You think he submitted Adolfo Vieira. He's got all this fucking crazy cardio. He puts a pace on guys. And Strickland made it look like he just did not belong in there. He's so heavy on that front foot, though. I can't believe guys aren't smashing that calf, man.

1:36:17I know. Well, he's hard to hit, man. And he also knows how to do that fucking hacky sack thing, where, you know, like you're bending your knee upwards. You know what I mean? To check it? Yeah. Well, you don't even check it. You just kind of, like, relax your leg and lift it up. you know who showed me that is Alex Pereira. He's like, instead of checking it, it's like if you check it, it still hurts you. For sure. But he just lifts his leg up. He just goes heel to knee on the opposite side. And so like a hacky sack moves. Right, right, right. I've seen guys take thigh leg kicks like that. Yeah. Kind of let it swing a little.

1:36:52He does it with the calf. So it's like he sees it coming. Instead of doing that, stepping out and checking it, he just like this. See that? Yeah, that's it. Well, that, I think in this instance, I think that was probably the, I don't know if that was the first fight or the second fight, but Izzy's calf was already done. He was really happy. He told me after that fight, he goes, when he got stopped in the first fight, he goes, dude, I wasn't even that hurt. It wasn't that. He goes, I couldn't move. He goes, my calf was cooked. It doesn't go away. Yeah, that one's crazy. That's hard to do, bro. That's kind of silly.

1:37:27Soccer move. That's hard. That's kind of silly. I don't think he really does that. Block it with the bottom of your foot? He could, though. I'm very interested in that fight, too. Him versus Cyril Ghosn. That's very interesting. For sure. For sure. And I know the power's going to translate over to heavyweight. That's not going anywhere. 100%, man. He'll be able to flatline heavyweights. 100%, especially with zero weight cut. Yeah. He's probably 230, 240 walking around. He is. 230-something, maybe. He's 240. Yeah, dude, come on. He's 240 walking around. That's a legit heavyweight. He's a big, tall, long.

1:37:55Fucking guy fought at 85. But so is Cyril, man. Cyril's good. An athlete heavyweight. Not just a big guy fighting at heavyweight. He's a legit heavyweight. It is a crime in the sport that that fight with Aspinall got stopped the way it did. That he eye-poked him. It's a crime. Yeah. Because that fight was playing out in a very interesting direction. Because Aspinall was having a really hard time touching that guy. He was bleeding. He was getting busted up. He was getting touched up a lot. Cyril's jab is legit. And that's what I was most excited for. I wanted to see Tom have to come back. Lose around and come back.

1:38:27I've never seen him. obviously I've seen him fight but I've never seen him in a real fight where you have to fight your way back into it How many times has he even been in the second round? Twice maybe? Something crazy like that Nuts. And that's why the fan base kind of blew me away. I was like these guys are so high on Aspinall right now. Like for a few months everybody was talking about Aspinall how good he is. I've never seen it. Not that he's not. He might, I mean he has to be good to be where he's at. Yeah. But I haven't seen it. Well my thought was the real problem that Aspinall is going to present is in the grappling He's a Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt.

1:38:58He's a big fucker. He's fast. He's got a power double. I mean, he explodes. But when he's standing there and trying to stand with Cyril Gan, this is the first time that he was ever in front of a guy who was agile and quick and very technical. Cyril Gan was doing a lot of sneaky shit. One thing he does is he keeps his hand low, and then he pops that jab out. So you don't know where it's coming from. Up jab. He does a lot of weird shit with his front leg, too. He is pretty quick for his size. Real quick. Yeah. Real quick. And he's a great athlete. And good mobility, good hips. Yeah, man. Cyril's a great athlete.

1:39:31Like, it's not just that. I've seen him dunk basketballs and shit. Like, he can move. Right. But it's just the fluidity of his striking is so efficient. Like, that's his world. If you just want to strike with him. Yeah. I mean, Jon Jones is so smart. Jon's like, fuck all this. Guillotine. Even Francis. Francis, well, he had a blown out knee in that fight. But Francis just, like, took him down every round and beat him up. Yeah, man. But that's a different serial. That's a serial that wasn't concentrating enough on his grappling and probably never thought that Francis was going to employ that tactic.

1:40:03Right. And then really worked with a lot of wrestlers and tried to evolve his game. I think Francis is on that Nate J card as well. He's fighting Philip Lins. Yeah, he's an ATT guy. Yeah. Yeah. How good is he? I've never really watched him train that much. I know he made it to the UFC for a stint. Then he maybe went PFL. I'm not sure how good he is. Yeah, it's I've seen him at the gym, but I've never watched him fortunate that there's not another big name for him to fight Like I was hoping they could get a big name Bob Sapp I mean who would be the big name like who's heavyweight yeah at heavyweight that's Still talented No one yeah heavyweight is the most shallow division in the sport Cain's out of jail get him in shape Nah.

1:40:52Well, Kane's got crazy back surgeries and knee surgery and shoulder surgery. Kane was, like, too tough for his own body. And all the years of wrestling, man. Mm-hmm. Wear and tear. Wear and tear. Also just never giving his body a break, just constantly grinding and pushing, and that's why he was so good. I think in his prime, the best. I think he was the best. Well, he was certainly in the argument. In my mind, it's him and Fedor, but honorable mention always I give to Fabrizio Verdum. Yeah. It's Fabrizio Verdum. People want to think about losses. Think about peak performances. Fabrizio Verdum tapped everybody.

1:41:27He tapped all the legends. Great trying. He tapped Minotauro. He tapped Fedor. And he tapped Kane. Like, just that. Just that alone. He tapped all the legends. I don't know why his name didn't, like when I was thinking about heavyweights, why his name doesn't even come in. I always want to give him respect. For sure. I always put it out there. because the same way I do with BJ Penn, because people, they only want to think about BJ Penn maybe when he fought Frankie Edgar or when he fought Yair Rodriguez. Go back to BJ Penn when he fought Sean Shirk. Go back to BJ Penn when he fought Diego Sanchez.

1:41:57That BJ Penn was a motherfucker. Joe Stevenson. Yes, Joe Daddy Stevenson. You've got to think about the guys when they're in their prime, when they're redlining for X amount of years at peak performance. When you're talking about all-time greats, I get it. All-time greats, you've got to think about guys like Jon Jones. It could be never lost. They stayed flawless their entire career. You're right. But for peak performance, when they were at their best, how good were they? I put prime-time BJ Penn at 155 against almost anybody. Yeah, you're right, man. Bro, he was so good, and his jiu-jitsu was so good, and he could knock you out, and he was an animal.

1:42:40When he was training with Marv Marinovich when he went over there and was like really learning how to get in insane shape. And he would come there with that big ass. Carrying rocks underwater and stuff. All that shit. I think the carrying rocks was him. Marinovich had him doing a lot of like crazy plyometric stuff. And the Marinovich's strategy was you already know how to fight. Fuck all this fighting. You know how to fight. What we're going to do is just give you the most insane gas tank. So your fight training is like secondary. What's really important is just having the most spectacular gas tank so you never get tired.

1:43:13Yeah. But he hated those camps, man. He hated it. And he only did it a few times. Even in the peak of his shape, he was still a little soft. He was never shredded. He was pretty shredded when he fought Joe Stevenson. Was he? Yeah. He had a six-pack. He looked good. I mean, it was different. But at 55, it was different. And everybody's body type's different. Well, at 70, he was never really a 170. He was never. I mean, he was much smaller than you. Yeah, yeah. He was never really a 170. He was just so tough that he went up to 170 and beat a primetime Matt Hughes. Yeah. He stuck around longer than he should have.

1:43:44He definitely did. He definitely fought without training well sometimes. That's the thing people remember. Yes, I hate that, though. Remember that one fight we fought on his tippy toes? Remember that fight? Yep, yep, yep. Crazy. Weird shit. But you got to think about him in his prime. That's what I always say. Don't look at it. Like Fabricio Verdum. Don't look at all the fights. look at the fights when he was in his prime when he was putting it all together was a nightmare he was a nightmare like when they hit their stride that's that's what i was scared about staying around the fighting too long like i retired at 36 i'm like perfect how much more athletic am i gonna get how much faster am i gonna get how much you know power is the last thing to go but durability speed reaction time everything that i need like and if i'm not right in line for a title shot or knocking on the door of it like what am i doing right i'm fighting just to fight for a paycheck.

1:44:34You know what's really crazy? That's when... I had to look myself in the mirror, you know, like, okay, this is it. I'm going to... You did the right thing. Be healthy. Leave with my faculties for the most part. The age that you retired was the age that Yoel Romero entered into the UFC. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that nuts? Yeah. It really is crazy if you think about it because that's really what... And there's a few outliers out there in the sport. Like in boxing, Usyk is the great outlier. Terrence Crawford is another great outlier. Dude, what about Usyk and Rico? Crazy. Rico's a super nice guy. I love Rico, man.

1:45:08Super nice guy. He's a nice guy, but without leg kicks, the fact that he's going to just box, and he's going to box maybe the best technical heavyweight that's ever lived, I don't know, man. I learned my lesson, dude. I bet$5 ,000 on Fury. Did you? Yeah. The second fight? Yeah. Interesting. If anybody can beat him, it's Tyson Fury. If anybody can beat Usyk, it's Tyson Fury. because Tyson Fury was beating him in the first fight. He just got clipped. He got clipped in, I think it was the ninth. He got really badly hurt. I don't remember what round it was, but he got really badly hurt and dropped.

1:45:43But Uzek is just so slick. Yeah, man. His footwork, his movement. And the fact that he's essentially a blown-up cruiserweight and he's beating all these giant heavyweights like Dubois. Like, Daniel Dubois is terrifying. What he did to Joshua? Yeah, yeah. Just charged forward and just put fucking leather on his face. Yeah, Rico's a real heavyweight, but he's not a pure boxer. No. I mean, he can hit hard. I mean, there's that. But he's such a great kicker. You're taking a weapon away. It's interesting. It's a spectacle. I'm watching for sure, but I just... I'm sure he's boxed with a lot of really elite boxers in the gym.

1:46:20I mean, but it's just the payday. Yeah, over the years, for sure. For sure, yeah. The payday's probably bananas. I'm sure. They're fighting in Giza. In front of the pyramids? Nuts. Crazy. Who's putting this together? No clue. Who put that together? I have no idea. Yeah, aliens. That's where they're going to land. They need to do a Coliseum fight, MMA or boxing, where they set it up either in the Coliseum or right in front. You know, that would be crazy. Well, they were talking about doing that with Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. They were talking about that fighting in the Coliseum. A real fight.

1:46:50I know. That's so crazy. Dude, that would be so crazy to have those guys be the first fight in the Coliseum. Do that one at Meta headquarters or something. Don't do that at the Coliseum. Don't disrespect them. Don't disrespect the Coliseum. No, no. I know. That's silly. So who's live at the Pyramids of Giza? WBC World Heavyweight Championship, DAZN. But, like, I wonder who the promoter is. Sella, WBC. I don't. Is that their faces? That's so ridiculous. Look at their fucking, with their circular golden gloves on. Glory and Giza. It's going to be interesting, man. I'm excited about it. I wonder who's going to buy that.

1:47:30how much is that going to cost i'm going to buy it but i mean i mean how many people are going to buy that you know what i mean like i'm going to buy it because it's i love rico i've had rico on the show i mean i think he's the greatest heavyweight kickboxer of all time for sure i feel like the way combat sports has kind of intertwined all different stuff boxing mma how big mixed martial arts is now you're going to get a lot of cross crossover before you'd get a lot of hardcore boxing fans buying this pay-per-view but now you're kind of going to get a little bit of everything kickboxing MMA boxing fans glory has such a small audience unfortunately and this was the you know this is the argument that Dana said to me about kickboxing in America that they tried with glory I just don't think they got the right promotion I think if the UFC I mean it's non-stop action it's highlights the whole time why wouldn't I feel like if the UFC got behind kickboxing in America it could be gigantic especially kickboxing with MMA gloves that Gazaleev guy was fighting in the octagon how fucking gigantic that would be or Yuki Yosa there's another guy Masato Inori there's a bunch of guys there's a bunch of guys that are like really elite that are fighting a bunch man a lot yeah Masato Inori Usyk open to fighting John Jones in crossover MMA fight.

1:48:56What? Wait. Okay. Now you got me interested. Dude. If the UFC comes up with the cheddar. You better start wrestling now. Yeah. You better start wrestling now. Wrestling right now. Is that real? Did he say that? Rico is first. Second is whoever wins between Wardley and Dubois. And the third fight is my friend Greedy Belly Tyson Fury. So a rematch with Dubois is a tough sell. He just starched him. The Tyson Fury fight is the big fight. Because Tyson Fury is the only guy that, in my eyes, makes sense. He says, a fight with Jake Paul in MMA at this stage is not being considered, but we're always open to creative and interesting collaborations in the future.

1:49:38If we were talking about crossover fights, a very interesting matchup could be against Jon Jones in the United States. Whoa. I don't know what Jon's going to do, man, with all the stuff going on with the UFC. He might be done. Who knows? He doesn't want to be done. I know he got stem cells on his hip. I know because I helped him get it. He got it over at, and he's talked about it. I wouldn't have talked about it, but he talked about it. He got it at waist well. And so he's feeling a lot better. He does have arthritis in his hip. It bothers him, but it doesn't bother him enough where he can't fight.

1:50:10And, you know, he's the greatest of all time, period. I did stem cells and PRP in my hip. I didn't notice anything from that. Well, it really depends on where you're getting the stem cells, what technology they're using. There's a bunch of different kinds of stem cells. Yeah, yeah. Talk to Brigham about that. He can explain it to you. I got maybe one. But you had a labrum tear, right? It was pretty significant. Yeah, and I had to get the head of my femur reshaped, like a resurfacing. It was kind of egg-shaped and it didn't need to be rounded. So it tore everything off the inside of my hip. So how do they do that?

1:50:39They take your leg out of socket. they shave the top around it and then they put like a bunch of small holes in it to where it cracks and then stem cells leak out of your body to create a new surface out of your bone how long did that take to recover from it? I couldn't put pressure on it for 8 weeks wow so you're just walking around on one leg for 2 months solid? and then once you start walking on it how weird was it? very weird because I had to sleep in like a motion machine where my leg wouldn't stop moving at night. Oh my God. Because your hip capsule is like tricky. If it heals up too tight, your leg won't have any range of motion at all.

1:51:17So while it's healing, you need to be in perpetual motion, I guess. That's crazy. And every week, they would send a new code for my wife to type in the machine and it would be a little bit different angle. Whoa. Yeah. What a nightmare. For those eight weeks, I was sleeping in this metal brace that moved my leg all night. How did you sleep? It was horrible because it went up to like your junk inside your leg and the outside of your leg. So it's like you had a wedgie by this machine and your legs just motion all night. Oh, my God. Yeah. It sucked, man. That's terrifying. But I'm fine now. It healed up good.

1:51:50That's crazy that it worked. Yeah. Wow. Resurfacing. Whoa. The guy actually who did it in Vail, Colorado invented the surgery. GSPs had hip surgery there. Really? Yeah. He invented this surgery. And GSP had to do the same bullshit? I don't know if he had exactly what I had, but he had surgery there on his hip. God, that sounds like two months of no sleeping. How'd you sleep? Did you get used to it? Well, the first week, pain medicine and stuff, you're on all that stuff. It was after, like when I stopped taking all that. Pain medicine must have been fun. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. Triple Z, dude.

1:52:26I was having dreams and getting the best sleep of my life. Yeah, that's a time where it makes sense to take that shit. Like you're in a fucking crazy breeze. Let's party. Yeah, for sure. Let's watch Netflix and not give a shit about my leg. Yeah, I'm sleeping in this machine. Hamster wheel. For real. Whatever the hell's happened to my leg. I was on one of those when I got my knee reconstructed. You had a bunch of knee surgeries. Yeah, but my left knee, I had a patellar tendon graft, and they put me on one of them things where it does this, like when I was in the hospital. So that's how I slept?

1:52:57I had a morphine drip. So you could press the button to get more morphine. I was like boink, boink, boink, boink. Dude, I had the same thing on my hip. So they put an epidural, and then they had a nerve block through my stomach. So I was, like, completely paralyzed from the waist down. But I had the button thing. I don't think it was working anymore because I revved it. It was shooting blanks, man. That's hilarious. It is weird, though, to see your, like, knee constantly moving forward. But I only had to do it, like, a couple of nights. I can't imagine. Oh, I did it for weeks. I can't imagine.

1:53:30That must have been so hard to sleep, man. Yeah, the motion wasn't so bad because it's kind of slow. Oh, okay. It was the metal in my groin. Oh, yeah. It probably rubbed it raw and shit. Oh, God. Yeah, man. Fuck, man. But like I said, I was on the pain medicine. It's crazy that it all worked, though. Yeah, dude. Shout out to that doctor. Shout out to all these doctors. I say that all the time. Like, both my knees would be fucking completely useless if it wasn't for amazing doctors. Right. Shout out to these guys for figuring shit out. I worked with Paul Felder at that Vegas show, and he just had a hip replacement.

1:54:04Yeah, he had the real deal, right? Yeah, no, he had a replacement replacement. Why did he have to do that versus what you did? I'm not sure exactly. It's something to do with the spacing, I think, inside your hip, how much spacing you have. Because my spacing was good. I wasn't a candidate for a replacement. Well, Paul went full nutty after he stopped fighting and started doing Ironmans. Yeah, dude, he was telling me he travels with a bicycle. Still does that? Cycling for five hours, like in a hotel room, like crazy. That's not good. That's unhealthy. Crazy, man. That's unhealthy. Yeah. Why are you doing that, Paul?

1:54:35Five hours, he told me. Well, the same kind of drive that made him a great MMA fighter made him want to be the best Ironman dude in the world. You need something like that, man. Way before the surges, just a couple years ago, when he first got diagnosed, I guess, with some injury. Yeah. So range of motion, my right hip, reached out to Heather and Dr. D from the UFC to help with an MRI. Long story short, I have the hips of an 80-year-old man. No soft tissue left. Grinding bone on bone. Oy. The problem is once they put an artificial joint in you, you have that artificial joint forever. It's never going back.

1:55:11And as biologics get better and stem cells get better, they're better and better at re-healing or healing that actual tissue. And if you could just hang in there. This is kind of the conversation that I had with John. because if you could just hang in there, they're so close. They're injecting stuff into discs now and making the discs larger. Right. So like people with back problems where the doctor's like, look, we've got to take some of your disc out. No, hang in there. And also look into other therapies, decompression. There's a lot of different things that you could do that can create space where your disc is pushing against your nerves.

1:55:49You can alleviate a lot of that. Surgery is the absolute last step. Especially with your back. Absolutely. Especially with your back. Look, if you have a blown ACL. Of course, they're going to cut you up. They'll do it anytime. Yes. You know, it's good business. Right. Cut you open. Then the medicines, the hardware, everything, it's a racket. That's the last step. That's the problem. When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Yeah. And, you know, when doctors get paid for doing surgery, they want to do surgery because that's where they make their living. Right. And it's a real problem with stuff like the back because I don't know anybody that's had a back surgery and been better.

1:56:24Right. The only big one I could think of, I remember Nate Quarry was a big advocate for some company. Remember he had a bad – He had an artificial spacer. Yeah. He had artificial discs put in his back way back in the day. Yeah. He's the guy I think about back surgery. But he also like got – it was an intense pain because of that. And I think it wound up like becoming a problem later on. Like, I know guys that initially had some relief because of back surgery, and then it started getting way worse after that. That's the same story. Follow-ups. Always the same story. Like, same thing with necks.

1:56:59Like, you lose strength. It's always bothering you for the rest of your life. Like, Mike Brown has a fusion where they went in through the front. Fusions are rough. My buddy Alan Jovan had a neck surgery where Kayla Harrison just had one. Like, once you have that, something— What did Kayla have done? I don't know exactly. I don't want to say the wrong thing. I don't think she's telling anybody. I know that. I'm pretty sure they went in through the front. Right, but I don't think she's telling anybody what exactly happened. Because, look, Al Jermaine had a disc replaced, and he came back and beat Piotr Jan in the rematch and looked fucking great and fought really well with that neck issue.

1:57:27And you don't hear him complaining about it? No. I mean, he said it's great. Yeah. I think that the new artificial discs that they're putting in the necks, a lot of them, it works out really well. I know quite a few people that have had those. I've been fortunate, man. I haven't had any neck. She had to repair herniated discs in her neck. Right. So the thing is, what they usually do is just take some of the disc out, and then you have less disc. So it's not bulging anymore, but you have less disc now. So now you have more degenerative disc issues. I just think there's other options, and one of the options is decompression.

1:58:06I don't know if anybody ran that by her, but I have a fucking neck harness. It's attached to a chin-up bar, and I put it around my neck. It straps under my chin, and I put my weight on it. I just, like, stretch my neck out. It works. You know, relieving. I hear it pop. Yeah, yeah. Pop, pop. They replaced the disc. Oh, she had to replace. Okay, so she got that thing that Al Jermaine got done. Yeah, how is she going to fight that quickly? Oy! Look at that. Oy! I wonder what her turnaround time is. I mean, International Fight Week, maybe her? Her and Amanda? Well, she's fighting. She was supposed to be fighting at the Whitehorse.

1:58:47Yeah, yeah. Her and Amanda were supposed to. They decided not to do that. Yeah. So maybe this summer? Maybe. Because it's going to be, I mean, that's a big fight, her and Amanda. It's a big fight. But, I mean, there's a possibility that you do something like that and you're never the same again. So she might not ever fight. Oh, the surgery, yeah. Yeah. It's like, whenever you're dealing with your spine, it's very tricky. Yeah. You know, it's just one of those things. It's like, ugh. Shoulders, knees. Mm-hmm. There's some things, man, you don't want to injure. I don't think anybody's ever come back from a knee replacement and fought MMA.

1:59:19I've never heard of that. I've heard of disc replacements. I've heard of a lot of knee surgeries, guys come back. Modestus Bukakis was the worst. Remember that? He fought Khalil, and Khalil sidekicked his knee sideways. And he hyperextended it? Oh, it went sideways. John does that knee stomp thing, too. I don't know how I feel about that, man. Well, Ian Gary did it to Shavkot. I don't know how I feel about it. Fuck Shavkot's knee up. I know. It's kind of fucked because, look, yes, it's effective. It's legal. But so is eye pokes. That's what I was about to say. I feel like it's kind of dirty. Like, legalize eye pokes.

1:59:51It is dirty. I mean, so are nut shots. I mean, nut shots are effective, too. Are we going to allow those? No. I mean, why are we allowing someone to do a technique that you can't? We do have 12 to 6 elbows now, so at least we're getting somewhere. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. But I'd rather have knees to a grounded opponent than kicking the knee sideways. It just seems like it takes a year off of your career, at least. Soak in a knee bar, soak in an arm bar. You could tap. True, true, true, true. You get a knee bar, you could tap. Inside heel hooks is scariest because you only got a couple of microseconds to tap.

2:00:23When you get that one, that one's so nasty, the knee across, you have no time. You just got to tap. You just got to know when you're done. You got to know when he got you and not let it. Did you ever see when Mikey Musumichi fought some cat in. I think I know what you're talking about. And the dude would not tap. Yeah. He was just ripping his knee apart. And Mikey was talking about it afterwards. It was so gross. I was like, why did you make me do that to you? All right. Why didn't you just tap? He mangled that guy's leg. I think I saw a highlight of that. It was horrible. It's so horrible to watch.

2:00:57You got it? Yeah. Show me. Yeah. Let's see this. Here it is. Like, look at this. Look at his leg. Bro. Bro. Bro. That is almost as nasty as watching that arm bar or that guillotine from Dan Miller. Look at this. This dude won't tap. It's so crazy. And Mikey is just a master at destroying your knees. Any normal human being would have tapped. Yeah, for sure. And he does this like seven times in this match where he rips this guy's leg sideways, left ways, right ways. The guy's knee's destroyed. Like, look at that. Look how nasty this is, man. This is so nasty. Look how side... That angle, too? That angle's so awful.

2:01:41The fact that this dude is just tolerating it, like right there, that's destroyed. That is destroyed. I don't know if that dude ever competed again afterwards. He might never be the same. No, he won't be the same. He'll never be 100%. You get your shit ripped apart like that, for sure there's some meniscus damage. ACL, ACL, MCL, everything. Fuck that. Heel hooks, that changed the goddamn game. I've been fortunate, man, with my knees. I have a torn meniscus in my right knee, but never needed surgery. You know, had a partial tear on my ACL when I fought Islam. He pulled me off against the fence and my knee slid and I felt it tear.

2:02:17It felt like fire in my knee, you know. And when you feel pain in a fight, you know it's bad because you usually don't. Right. But I felt it burning like fire. But you didn't need surgery? Didn't need surgery. Did a bunch of physical therapy. I had a partial tear. There's something called maybe a ligamentum or something that connects where your ACL is. Every time you tear your ACL, the ligamentum's completely torn always. And mine had a partial tear in that. So I must have took the weight off or we switched the position right before it tore my ACL. Oh. Yeah. But I had like bruising. You know, back of my leg was all bruised up.

2:02:50Couldn't bend it for a little bit. But now it's 100 %? Yeah, I feel great. Yeah. That's interesting. Like Arnold out. No. Who was it that was telling me that? Like there's different people that have had different levels of tears. and then in those levels of tears, like some of them you can come back from 100%, but some of them, okay, this dude. A broken ankle too. Oh my God. So this dude that, try saying his name. How do you say his name? Gentimer Byandurin. Byandurin. So this is the guy, Mikey Musumichi. He was torn ACL, torn MCL, torn meniscus, and a broken ankle. That's crazy. That's crazy.

2:03:34He did like a toe hold or something? How did he break his ankle? So it was, oh, was it Brendan Allen? It was Brendan Allen was in the podcast. He was telling me this. He tore his ACL completely and never got it fixed, and it reattached. Wow. Yeah. Like at a slightly different angle, but reattached. Like it tore off, but it was still hanging in there, and it rehealed. I was like, that's nuts. I've never even heard of that before. But I know some people that have had like a three-quarter tear, and it heals, but it's not really the same. It's still a little funky. You know, Brad Pickett fought his whole career with the torn.

2:04:09No ACL in one of his legs. I think Justin has that situation. Like Brad would sit on the ground on the mat and then grab his shin and slide it forward and you could see the movement. How does that not chew your meniscus apart? He fought so many fights like that. Well, Rico Rodriguez did too. Rico always had a blown out ACL and he fought. Rico was down in Louisiana for a while, man. Rico Rodriguez was? He was one of the first Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belts. I trained with him at Tim's gym before. Yeah, he was really good on the ground, man. Rico was really good on the ground. And he was a UFC heavyweight champion at one point in time.

2:04:42I know. People forget. Dude, I didn't even know who he was. I was sparring him. That's crazy. Tim was a heavyweight champion at the UFC. I'm like, no way. I know, isn't that funny? He was out of shape. I was like, who's this big tattooed guy? Let's go. There's a lot of guys that people forgot they slept on. It's interesting when you think about that. He was running a gym in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I don't know if he still is. Rico was? Yeah. He had partnered with... In Baton Rouge? In Baton Rouge, Louisiana. He took over in LA Boxing. They turned it into a UFC gym now. But he was part owner or something.

2:05:14He was running it. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, it's a hard road when guys retire and people don't even remember them. At least you have a giant name. You're always going to be able to do seminars. People are always going to want to bring you into events. You have a career no matter what. Yeah, I've been doing a lot of watch parties where I get with the fans and watch the fights. It's fun, man. I enjoy it. That's cool. It's sometimes a little awkward because the fans will stick around too long. Like, I'm watching the fights with you. But you come sit at my booth and, like, we run out of things to talk about.

2:05:41It's like, okay, buddy. Hey, man, let me get your number. Like, hey, bro. Oh, hey, my buddy's on FaceTime. Can you talk to so-and-so? Like, dude, just chill. I know. Some people just can't hang. Dude, but I fought, like I said, 19 years. I say 20, but it's 19 years that I fought. Until that Conor fight, like, that's when things changed for me. recognition. Yeah. Wow. That's interesting. That's crazy because... Like the door opened for seminars, for appearances. That changed. Changed. That's so weird. And I had been in so many UFC main events. I had fought for the belt. Done all this stuff. But that guy's name, man.

2:06:15Isn't it nuts? Just personality got him so... Well, obviously, very skilled. For sure. The Eddie Alvarez fight. That's to Conor in his prime form when he was in the Matrix. Aldo. Yes. Eddie. the Aldo fight was great because it was one shot and nobody's done that to Aldo ever ever and since that was amazing but the Alvarez fight was him in the matrix when the punches were literally touching his nose and he's firing back those combinations he was just in the zone that was focused Connor walk in the park no Eddie's good man Eddie's tough as fuck when Eddie beat Dos Anjos? I was like, holy shit, man.

2:06:58I was always a big Eddie fan. Always. His fights with Chandler. You want to talk about taking years off your life. Those fights that those two had that nobody was watching other than the hardcore guys, those were crazy. To this day, I tell people, you want to watch some chaos, watch Eddie Alvarez and Michael Chandler in Bellator. They're some of the best fights of all time. Knock down, drag out, both guys. If you're a fan of Chaos, watch those fights. Those fights were fucking bananas. And so that's what we anticipated when Chandler came over. And then we knocked out Dan Hooker in the first round.

2:07:35I was like, oh, shit, he's here. Same card. Same card as me and Connor. But I think that it was too late. I think he had already suffered so much punishment. If we got a hold of Michael Chandler like six, seven years before that when he was fighting in Bellator, this is the problem with PFL. This is the problem with Bellator. And I don't think it's a problem. Because I think these guys are prize fighters. You know, like, I think Francis Ngannou said it best when he was talking about this Netflix card. They're saying, someone said to him, do you think this is, this fucks with your legacy? He goes, legacy?

2:08:07Who's legacy for? For you? He goes, fuck, keep your legacy. Give me my money. Right. Give me my pay. This is what I'm supposed to be getting. I'm Francis Ngannou. And I think he's right. But he's Francis Ngannou. He's already the UFC heavyweight champion. Left as the UFC heavyweight champion. But for a lot of these guys that are starting their career, their best years are in these other organizations. And not enough people know. Like Johnny Eblen. Perfect example you were talking about before. He knocked out Leon Edwards' brother. I mean, he's fucking good, man. Beat Musashi. I cornered him when he beat Musashi.

2:08:40Dude, Musashi's a legend. I grew up watching him. A legend. Yeah. There's a guy, another guy that people forgot about. Gegard Musashi was a fucking beast. By the time he made it to the UFC, I was already such a big fan. But, like, the casuals didn't know who he was. Oh, he was so good, dude. Gegard was so good and so smart. Right. Just so smart and unassuming. Was it him who up-kicked Jacare back? Yeah, into a triangle. Yep. Yeah, man. Yep. Yeah, I think that was in Dream. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Gegard was a beast, man. He was a beast. Eddie Alvarez in Dream was a bunch of good fights. And Gegard stopped Weidman in the UFC.

2:09:17Really good fundamental boxing, great jab. Yeah, great everywhere. Yeah, good wrestling. Good wrestling defense. Just super smart, too. Just a very, very intelligent guy. Super calm. But he got put on the shelf with the Bellator deal. He got put on the shelf. And I don't know what's going on with him. I don't know. If I'm not going to get out of the way, if I'm not going to get out of the way, if I'm not going to get out of the way, if I'm not going to get out of the way, he might not even still be under contract with PFL or whatever. Well, I think he's 40 now. He was old in the UFC. Yeah. He's got to be close to 40, if not older.

2:09:48Where's Gaygard Mousasi these days? he got drafted in the global fight oh that thing I knew that was going to fall apart from the jump that thing was weird when I was talking to coaches at American Top Team and they were telling me like all these ex UFC fighters what their contracts were with this company I was like dude they haven't even put on one show and they're signing guys to these kind of contracts I mean the money was crazy so 2023 was his last fight how old is he now so he lost to Fabian Edwards It's the same guy that Eblon knocked out. 40. 40. Yeah, I cornered Eblon. The dream catcher.

2:10:25In that fight, dude, he got cut so bad with an elbow. Like, I can see the vein in his. I have it in my phone. It was crazy. Oof. I have it in my phone. The vein's still intact. It didn't cut the vein, but you can see it. Oh, boy. Oh, it's pretty gnarly. And then he stopped him. Yeah, elbow. Yeah. We were in Ireland. Yeah, Eblon's a tough guy, man. And I think he's like one of those guys that's like at the very top of the heap at 185. But, again, I know about him. But how many people do? That's unfortunate. Yeah. You know, because he's been fighting over the PFL for how many years now? Well, he was Bellator.

2:10:56Bellator in PFL. And then they fought him, yeah. For how many years now? A long time. I mean, I think he might have had one or two fights when Bellator signed him. He got in early at Bellator. But he's a student, man. He's going to keep getting better. He's pretty young still. Submitting Mark Hunt is crazy. That's crazy. Right? And you think how small he is? He fought at 185 in the UFC, and he submitted 260-pound Mark Hunt. Gagard Mousasi was a fucking beast. He was a beast. Just technique. Yep. Just technique. Technique, toughness, and intelligence. Just so crafty. Just so good everywhere. Good on the ground.

2:11:31Good standing up. And super patient, man. Methodical. Yeah. I've always been a fan of his. There's a lot of those guys that people forget about. They forgot. Yeah, a bunch. I would say one guy that people underestimated because they didn't get to see him when he was in his prime or they just forgot is masvidal oh people forgot how good masvidal is masvidal knocked out eve edwards with a head kick yeah that yeah bodog yep yeah bro masvidal in his prime was a motherfucker he was good when he knocked out darren till remember that shit that switch step oh my god yeah of course switch step i think caught him with a left hook knocked him out on cold cold and he was a dog like when he started focusing on his wrestling he was at the hook and strike force man at 55 like yeah oh yeah he was a dog back then no miles but all was a beast man and he's good everywhere man he's good everywhere he has good jiu-jitsu good wrestling uh-huh kickboxing yeah he's good everywhere i mean when he went out with the 170 that's not really his weight class his real weight class was 55 yeah but i think as he got older he's it was hard he's a big guy he's a big guy he has really thick legs and he's a little bit taller taller than me for sure but but like when he was really competitive i feel like it was at 55 yeah but i mean like he Keith got his problems at 70.

2:12:46Like the Darren Till fight was at 70. He fucked a lot of guys up at 70. Cowboy. Yep, Cowboy. Was that at 70? Body shot at 170? Damn. Yeah. No, Masato, people forgot. There's people. And then, you know, he was having those backyard fights in the Kimbo slice days. Yep, yep, yep. Which is crazy. The bare knuckle Kimbo fight, Kimbo slice fights. Yeah, man. Kimbo used to come to the American Top Team. He used to bring his kids and stuff. It was crazy talking to him because I grew up watching his fights, you know. No. But he was like the first guy to become a legend on YouTube. Yeah. You know? Yeah, everybody knows who he is.

2:13:20Plus, he looked so cool. The bald head and the beard and the hair on the back. Yeah. Everything was crazy. The braids in the bed. Yeah. Super jacked. Oh, man. And just fucking people up in the backyard. Yeah. Like they were moving around like satellite dishes and shit. I think he was a bodyguard or a driver for a guy in Miami who started a porn company, and that's how it started. Exactly. Yeah. And they organized these fights. Yep. where they would just no warm-up, just, all right, let's go. No, you'd get out the car in the front driveway and walk to the back and just start scrapping. I know. It was crazy.

2:13:51But as a kid, like when that stuff came out as a kid, that was such a big thing to watch, you know, that we had to download it illegally on like LimeWire or something back then. Yeah. You know, that was wild times. And then to see him in the UFC in the Ultimate Fighter, dude, what a journey that guy had. I know. And what balls it took for him to do that, to enter into the UFC with like basically zero grappling. And like really just kind of learning the sport. but you know good boxing but i don't think like gym not trained boxing just natural ability and well he definitely had some training right the way he moved was even in the bare knuckle the way he moved was like a boxer shell you know yeah like a mike tyson movement yeah but it was like kind of rudimentary remember when he fought seth petrozzelli yeah yeah like last minute petrozzelli comes in last minute like ken shamrock had some sort of a dispute with them and maybe got cut backstage or something.

2:14:40So last minute, they swapped out Seth Petruzzelli. And he knocked him out. Yeah. I called that one. I called that one on camera. No, I wasn't doing the commentary. I think it was Elite XC. I think that bankrupt them or something. I don't know how... That fight bankrupt them? I don't know if it bankrupt them, but after that happened, they didn't have many more shows after that. I think they were going under anyway, unfortunately. Yeah, I don't know how that fight would have bankrupt them. Well, they had some guy who was a boxing guy who was running the whole thing. What was his name? Gary Shaw?

2:15:10I don't know back then. I don't remember either. But, you know, like it's hard to make money in these things, man. Like those things are hard. Like the UFC doesn't get the credit it deserves in terms of the promotional machine. Like that's a smooth running machine. Oh, yeah. That machine's been around for a long time. It's so polished between the production, all the guys in the truck, the directors, the producers. No, they're the best of the best. Yeah, they're the best. It's hard. and then you got all the best fighters. And it's like the product. So when they have a fight like Holloway and Oliveira and like, oh, this fight wasn't good.

2:15:45Like, that's a great fight, man. For sure. You can't be a casual. People are just bloodthirsty. Yeah. You know? Like, listen, to do that to Max Holloway is crazy. Do you not appreciate that? Go watch baseball. Wrestlers, great grapplers have never done that to them. I know. It's nuts. It's nuts if you think about it. Yeah. it's exciting, man. The UFC is definitely the best at it. With this whole Paramount thing, I was kind of, we'll see how it turns out. I was kind of worried, like, if you take pay-per-view off the table, how much is UFC going to put the biggest fights together? They don't need to sell pay-per-views.

2:16:20They're guaranteed money. You know, I was just wondering if that would not water it down, but if we would get a bunch of weaker cards, and I'm still waiting to find out, man. Well, it is weird, right? Because with pay-per-view, you're always building it up so that people buy it. and then also points. Like the fighters get paid points. So how are fighters getting paid now? I've been asking every show at work. I ask everybody. I want to know because my last few years in the UFC, I was - Nobody's telling you? Nobody's telling me anything. They're keeping you in the dark? Keeping me in the dark. What the fuck is that?

2:16:50Keeping me in the dark, man. Because I was pay-per-view partner multiple fights with the UFC. And that was always the thing they kind of, in discussion about contracts and about future fights, that they kind of held over you. Like, you win this fight, one day you're going to fight for the belt, you're going to get pay-per-view, your life's going to change. That was always a carrot they hung to do anything. That was the goal, to one day fight for the belt and get pay-per-view money. But now that that's gone, I mean, Conor's not going to fight. Even Justin at the White House. There's no way these guys aren't fighting with that backdoor money.

2:17:21So they must be just guaranteeing them a bigger perk. I don't know. Well, I think Justin would fight no matter what because it's for the title. This is his last fight. Well, yeah, the title. the title it's the title it's at the white house he's a patriot it's the last fight you know i think he would fight no matter what but like you know ronda rousey uh you know she's promoting the netflix fight she made i don't know if you saw what she said but she had this big long speech about the ufc selling for seven billion dollars and these fighters aren't making enough money and you know look she made some good points and the most important thing is that she gets the conversation out there and it puts pressure on the UFC to pay people more you know and if Netflix can become successful at MMA if they can become successful putting cards together and pulling fighters away like right now they're doing a one-off right it's one-off and it's kind of a gimmicky thing and listen this payroll is gonna be crazy it's gonna be crazy you got Rhonda Francis Nate these everybody's getting crazy money the payroll is gonna be nuts but if anybody's got that kind of money it's Netflix they throw around a lot of ridiculous money.

2:18:28They make so much money. So they can kind of do that. The question is, are they going to do that more than once? So if they do that more than once, then what happens is it's all about the name of the fighters, just like boxing. Like if boxing, no one cares if it's Golden Boy or Bob Arum. No one cares about that. What they care about is who's fighting who. Is it Benavidez? Who's he fighting? Is he fighting Bival? Let's go. That's a great fight. So if Netflix can kind of do the boxing thing on Netflix with, like, big-name stars, they can be a major player. And that will elevate everybody's pay scale.

2:19:04So as a lot of people are like, oh, Ronda, how could you turn her back on the UFC and talk shit like that? If what she's saying doesn't make any sense, she can't say it. Right? So if what she's saying makes sense, then you have to go, she's got a point. Yeah. She's got a point. She's got a point. They sold it for$7 billion or whatever it is. They got this$7 billion deal, whatever the fucking deal was, with Paramount. Not even selling it. Sold rights to it, right? That makes sense. She's making sense. And so if she's saying this and Netflix listens and if someone comes along and they're a shrewd businessman, they go, look, there's a lot of people, their contracts are coming up.

2:19:43And when these people's contracts are coming up, let's get into negotiations. And then all of a sudden some people start drifting over. Yeah. So I'm like, you get like an Islam Makachev starts leaving and they leave and go fight at Netflix. And then they can talk four or five top major contenders into doing, look, it's a big ask. Look, I love the UFC. Spent most of my professional career there. But I love seeing these other organizations come up and people making money. Like you said, it rises everything. It's more places for people to work. It's great. It's only good. Olivier Alva Mercier made a million dollars in the PFL.

2:20:17Yeah. And I think he did it more than once, right? Didn't he win the tournament twice or something like that? I'm not sure. He definitely won it at least once. The Canadian gangster? Right. A guy who's not in the top ten of the UFC goes over to another organization and makes a million dollars. Okay. I don't know if that's sustainable for them. I don't know how they came up with that money. They've got to be bleeding money out. They have to be bleeding money. Nobody's watching it. Or even guys like Pettis, who was a former world champion, who you know his contract was good in the UFC. Right. didn't choose not to re-sign with the UFC and he went to PFL.

2:20:50They had to be paying him big money. They have to be. You know? So it's all competition ultimately is good for the most important thing, which is paying the fighters. Yeah. So I'm happy. And places to work. Like if the UFC cuts you or something, you back, you know, 10 years ago, there's only place to make money. They cut you. Now you got to get a job. Exactly. Maybe fight, try to get back in part-time fighting. Like try to get, you know, now you can pivot and still have a career. Well, that's the thing with Francis. when Francis left the PFL, everybody's like, well, now he's fucked because he can't fight in the UFC.

2:21:22I wanted him to come back to the UFC. I was like, come on. Can we figure out a way to make this happen? But Dana just does not want to have anything to do with him. Apparently they did not get along very well, which is like, I'm like, come on. Can I help? Can I fucking get you guys in a room together and fucking calm everybody down? But the most important thing is if there's another player. He's still a guy I want to watch. Oh, yeah. Fuck, yeah. He's still a guy I want to watch. I mean, he's the legit heavyweight champion, if you think about it. He never got beat in MMA as a heavyweight champion.

2:21:56And then he fought Hennon Ferreira in... PFL. Yeah. That's another ATT guy. But it's another one where it's like, who's watching that? And if you're watching it, you're just watching it for Francis. Me and you. Yeah. I mean, I wanted to know, what were the numbers for that fight? It was probably the biggest fight they ever put on. I don't think I've ever seen any numbers from PFL. And I think he was getting$20 million a fight, and he wanted his opponents to get a huge amount, too. I forget what the—he had a minimum amount his opponents would get in his contract. Respect. I didn't know that. Yeah, that's awesome.

2:22:31Yeah, that's part of his contract. I forget what the number was, but it was substantial. So Henan Ferreira got a giant payday for that fight, too. It's like, how are they—where are they getting—I guess they have Saudi money. I think they did for some of the shows because they went to Saudi to do some shows. But I don't know if they're backing them, the whole company. You're going to need something like Netflix. And Netflix can kind of pull it off because Netflix has a massive promotional machine. But they need big names. So, like, now that they have Nate and Mike Perry on the car too, like, okay.

2:23:07Okay, so you got Nate, Mike Perry. You got Francis Philip Lins. you have Rhonda and Gina okay now you have three interesting fights you're going to need a few more and it's on Netflix so it's going to be free but even if Nate and Mike Perry was the head of the headliner I would have bought that pay-per-view 100 % when you don't have to buy it so this is what gets interesting so if this fight goes on Netflix and gets 50 million views it's going to get a lot it could get more views than any fight ever it could it's very possible that that because Netflix is bigger than anything if they got more views than anybody ever that would be fucking but then YouTube might come along most views on a mixed martial arts event hey guys we're YouTube we're even bigger than Netflix because YouTube is bigger than fucking Netflix YouTube is everywhere and if they come up with some crazy if some if more players get involved in this and more people become free agents it could get very interesting dude it's crazy to see how far the sport has come because like back all these big companies wouldn't want to touch this human cock fighting back in the day.

2:24:11I know. Now everybody wants a piece of the pie. I know it's nuts. It's cool now. Yeah, it's wild, right, that cage fighting became something that, like, corporate America wants to get involved in. Dude, I'm in the airport. I'm in the grocery store. Grandmothers, old, you know, ladies are walking up to me talking about fights, which is insane. Insane. Insane. My wife's mom loves it. Because 15 years ago it was bearded guys with tattoos would be in the grocery store. We'd whisper about it, you know. It was frowned upon. We'd talk about fight club, you know. Yeah. Now it's like soccer moms. Did you see the fight last weekend?

2:24:42The arm bar? I'm like, what are you talking about? Well, that's all the UFC. The UFC, with that one deal, the Fertittas have such huge balls because they were down $40 million when they made that deal for Spike TV to do The Ultimate Fighter. And they were like, we're fucking hemorrhaging money. And they were talking about selling it. And just a perfect storm. I know. Stefan and Forrest. The world was watching, man. And it felt special. I remember being at my mother's house. I knew I was watching something special. Yeah. Like, this is special. I know. It was crazy being there live, too. It was so nuts.

2:25:15It was so nuts to watch it evolve and watch it burst out. And by then, by 2005, I had already been working for them for, like, four years. Well, I started in 97 with the old owners, and I did, like, the backstage and post-fight interviews. And then I did it for a little bit, and then I had to quit. I was like, this is costing me money. Yeah. I made more money going to a comedy club for a weekend than I would flying to Dothan, Alabama. Bossier City, Louisiana. But I was happy I did it because it was fun and it was exciting. And I remember me and Eddie Bravo back then, we were like, man, you know what the UFC needs?

2:25:52This is like literally a conversation we had in like 98. They need some crazy billionaires that love the sport to just dump a bunch of money in it. Because we know it's exciting. It's just the rest of the world doesn't know. And along came the Fertitta's. And they did it. that they saw it and rode that vision out and it paid off. It's nuts. It paid off. Literally like exactly what we said needed to happen. And then for that fight to happen in the ultimate fighter between Stephen Bonner and Forrest Griffin, because it was a perfect kind of fight, it was so evenly matched. It was so chaotic and they knew each other so well from being in the house together.

2:26:24They just went after it for three solid rounds at the end. Both guys were like, ugh. But dude, how could the idea of, the actual Kumite idea of putting the best fighters from all over the world, whatever discipline they train in, let's find out what's the best. I mean, of course it's going to succeed. It's chaos. Yeah. It's everything you want to see. And the crazy thing, it was really kind of invented as a showcase for Gracie Jiu-Jitsu because the Ohorian was like, you know, like, look, Jiu-Jitsu is going to prevail. And he was kind of right. No, I mean. At first. Dude, Hoist was in there against Giants.

2:26:58Dan Severn. Dude, come on. Kimo. What do you weigh? 180 pounds? 190 pounds? Yeah, maybe. Not even. Maybe even 176. Fighting these bodybuilders. And I asked him why they pick him. He goes, look at this face. And look how beautiful I am. I'm so good looking. That's why they pick me. Wearing pajamas. We didn't even know what a gi was. Well, I had no idea jujitsu was that effective. I was so confused. Yeah. I was like, someone's going to kick him. He's fucked. Someone's going to punch him. I know. He's just taking dudes to the ground. That stomp. and no idea of anything that they're doing. Just letting them pass guard.

2:27:34Letting them do anything. You don't know anything. He's choking guys with the gi, too. He's grabbing his own collars. I'm like, oh, this is wild. That's one thing I do. Like, I got away from the gi. So from white belt to brown belt, I competed IBJJF every tournament I could. Would do my weight class. I'd do absolute. Get the reps. I love jiu-jitsu. But probably around 2011, 2012, I stopped putting the gi on. It was all a mixed martial arts training because I was getting – before I would use jiu-jitsu to prepare for fights at a small school I was at. But when I went to American Top Team, I didn't need it anymore because I had such high-level guys on the mats at all times.

2:28:11I was doing jiu-jitsu no-gi every day. But it's been so many years since I've put on a gi and had like a jiu-jitsu practice, man. Even the practices I do now are all no-gi. It's fun. I want to get back into gi. Gi's fun. But Eddie Bravo said it best. He goes, if you were a professional tennis player, would you practice for tennis by playing racquetball? No, you wouldn't. You would play tennis. You would do the thing that you do. If you want to get really good at MMA, jiu-jitsu, you need to do no gi. And he's right. I mean, gi definitely helps as well, but you got to do no gi. What gi does is it teaches you that you have to be technical with your defense because you can't muscle out of things.

2:28:49But the reality is, like, you should just be technical with no gi. For sure. That's the thing. Like, get out of the thing. I always say that the best jiu-jitsu is to learn jiu-jitsu from a small guy. All technique. Yeah, like a Barrett Yoshida, Hoyler Gracie, Eddie Bravo. Learn jiu-jitsu from small people because they're all technique. They can't muscle out of things. You learn Brazilian jiu-jitsu from some big giant motherfucker. Their game is going to be so different because they're so strong. But look at the Sambo guys. Look at the Makachevs and Khabibs. like that that's the game of no gi that's no gi it's like their their no gi game is finely polished yeah finally that's it's not going to help them to wear a gi right their game wouldn't be better like habib's game wouldn't have been better it's all top you never see those guys on their back and guard it's a different it's a different speed it's jujitsu but it's a different different game yeah what they do small small changes on the locks like we were saying with the darts choke grabbing your forearm they do things a little bit different man even their wrestling like is is different it's not collegiate fundamental wrestling that you would teach at a wrestling camp it's just chain wrestling that they kind of developed and have their own style man it's different it really is interesting and then you know when i've talked to daniel he's like dude i've seen could be put it on like high level amateur wrestlers in the gym put it on them And I believe it, too.

2:30:20I mean, he's just, his discipline, when he was in his prime, man, his discipline was just above and beyond. His discipline, his drive, his focus. And there's something to be said for those guys, too, because they're super religious. So there's no partying, there's no drinking, there's no chasing women, there's no bullshit. It's just drive, drive, drive, drive. Right. You know, and that collecting the legs that he does with the triangle underneath the legs when he's in the mount. Against the fence. So hard to get out of that. Everybody's doing it now. You know, the wrist ride, the handcuff he's doing, everybody's doing it.

2:30:53Yeah. I mean, it's been really interesting to watch, like, these dominant forces come along and, like, sort of remap the landscape of the game, you know. And we've seen it with them. Especially in such a high-stakes game. How do you do it that many times without catching a heel to the face, without catching a knee? Right. You know, the guys he's fought, so many dangerous guys, he's just drowned them, you know. I know. Well, you know, Islam got caught in that one fight and got knocked out. Adriano Martins. Right, but it just shows you he's a human being. Yeah, it can happen to anyone. It can happen to anybody.

2:31:27And the Gleason-Tibau fight with Khabib. I feel like Gleason won that fight. Oh, man, I know a lot of people always talk about that. I feel like Gleason won that fight. Me and Tibau have been training partners. We beat each other up so much. He's such a fun guy, man. Gleason's such a good dude. He's another guy. Like, how the fuck are you 155? So much energy, dude. Never complains about anything. He could have a 50-pound weight cut smiling in the sauna. Just happy to be here. He just hoped both teams have fun. That's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. Just a happy-go guy, man. I watched that fight again because I was like, am I talking out of school?

2:31:59Should I shut the fuck up? And I watched it again. I go, no. I think he won. Was it a split? I don't remember. I don't remember if it was split. But he was stopping takedowns. Yeah. And he was a tank. That guy was a tank. He was big. Big. He was big and jacked. Dude, probably 5 '8", 5 '7". Looked a little saucy. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know either. I don't know. Skillful. Super skillful. You know? Solid striking. Solid jiu-jitsu. Oh, great jiu-jitsu. Very good. Everywhere. Black belt jiu-jitsu. He was strong as fuck. And just, you know. They knew from an early age because I think his middle name is Herculino.

2:32:43I'm serious. That's hilarious. Yeah. Herculino. Herculino. Brazilians have some of the funnest. Yeah, he might have eight names, you know. I bet. Yeah. Gleason, Teba, Alves, Herculino, a few other things that I'm missing, I'm sure. I'm serious, though. Johnny Gleason, maybe. Teba. I don't know. He has a few names. That's funny. I'm being serious. Really? Yes. He's got a bunch of names that nobody knows? That's hilarious, man. Well, an American top team, man, you probably have seen more elite talent come through those doors. Shout out to Dan Lambert. Well, Dan's a man. That motherfucker put the money in, put the time in when there was no money to be made.

2:33:23There was no, that guy was. He just loved it. It was a passion thing. And just, it's just like what we said with the UFC. We need a rich guy to come along and just throw the money at it. Yeah. Like that's what Dan did with American Top Team. I remember when he was putting together the new American Top Team facilities and he showed me we're going to have dorms. We're going to have this. I was like, this dude's trying to go broke. Like, what are you doing? Dude, it's huge. And that area's crazy expensive. if it's on a huge piece of land. I need to get Dan in here. For sure. I talked to him about it before, but he deserves the credit because that guy.

2:33:53Dude, honestly, him building the gym and asking fighters for 5%, which is crazy, unheard of. Other gyms are taking crazy amounts. He's giving you all these amenities, giving you a place to stay. At one point, he had houses as well, fighter houses that he bought, and he would put fighters up in the houses for camps and stuff. Dude, I've heard of him paying, covering medical bills that fighters didn't have money for, never getting paid back. He's done so much stuff, man. Good for the sport. Solid guy. Amazing for the sport. And if he didn't put together that super gym, who knows how many of these super gyms would have ever evolved because he kind of set the blueprint for what a gym could be.

2:34:35To this day, that's still the best gym in the world in terms of super gyms. I mean, there's just so much knowledge, man. Right. So much knowledge, so much equipment. It's so big. It's so well made. And you never know who's going to be on the mat. At any time you walk in and do an MMA class, there's literally thousands of mixed martial arts about experience on the mat at any time. Was Robbie his first world champion? I was there for every camp when Robbie came over. I feel like it might have been. Everybody was like, Dan Lambert deserves a world champion. Someone's got to be a world champion. Robbie might have been the first, dude.

2:35:09I think he might have been the first. I mean, Mike Brown was WC. Yeah. But UFC champion, I think, Ruthless Robbie Lawler was number one. I remember when he came over, man. Hey, how was Pantoja? Do you know how his elbow was? I don't know how the injury is, but it has to be bad if they're skipping him and going with this other title fight. I know. I was there like two weeks ago. I went down to help some buddies. I spent a week there. I didn't see Pantoja at all. It was so nasty, but what was really weird was when Megan O 'Leary was talking to us, they were saying that he dislocated his shoulder.

2:35:41And I was like, what? Like, what are you talking about? His elbow went out. Like, I'm watching his elbow go out. Yeah, it looked like the elbow. And they said, no. But I think the doctor had misspoke. And I'm 99 % sure that it was actually the elbow that went out. Because the elbow clearly moves. And it caves in and gives out. Right. And when that happens, ligaments, muscles, everything gets damaged. But I just don't know the extent. Well, it's too bad because also Pantoja is older. And he's older and dominant in flyweight, which is very hard to do. It sucks at any time to see a fight in like that.

2:36:14Terrible. And especially a title fight. Especially a title fight. Especially on the streak he was on, defending the belt. Like, it just, fuck, man. Not just that, but. And he's such a hard worker and such a quiet guy and just a good dude, you know? He's a fucking savage, too. I think he's one of the greatest of all time. In the post-fight, Dana said something about the shoulder also. They popped his shoulder back in. I thought it was the elbow. Well, it was the elbow. It says it's not the elbow. It was his shoulder. It's his elbow as well, though. It's got to be. That's weird. Yeah, follow-up posted there was no ligament damage, but I was trying to find updated.

2:36:45So even if there's no ligament damage, there could be cartilage damage. Oh, yeah, yeah. There could be a lot of other shit that's in there. Anytime something bends the way it's not supposed to, soft tissue's damaged. His weight and Joshua Vann's weight all on one arm posted, and that arm gives out. But damn, dude, when he fought that Japanese cat, who was that guy? Ran through him. When Pantosha did? Yeah. Like, you just see how good he is. When he fought Kai Car France and ran through him, I was like, this dude is on fire right now. No, he's good, man. He's on fire. I think Pantoja's one of the best of all time.

2:37:18And, dude, not loud, not flashy, quiet. He'll walk in the gym, be in practice, you won't notice him. Just working, always. Just does his work. Just working. Yeah, just fucking focused. Just a soldier. I love to see that, though, man, because a few years before he was the flyweight champion, and he was driving Uber or Uber Eats, like just trying to make him, you know, scrapping to get bills paid. And you see a guy because that's what makes fighting so special, though. You know, like Teddy Atlas has a speech about it, but it's like, where else can you be from any discipline, any creed, anything, any background and call yourself the world, the champion of the world?

2:37:56It's true. So powerful. On any given night, you can go against the odds and be a Buster Douglas or be an Uber Eats driver and be the world champion a couple years later. It's just special, man. Fighting combat is special. It is special, and it is the end all of all sports. Like if someone shoots a basket and they make a three-pointer on you, you're like, okay, but I can still fuck you up. No one says after you fuck them up, yeah, but I could score a basket on you. No one cares. Dude, it's the end of all sports. The end of everything. The best middle school comeback. Somebody can't beat me, though.

2:38:31Can't beat me, though. That was like the comeback for anything. Can't beat me, though. That's the top of the line. The top challenge. Exactly. The top challenge. Doesn't matter if you're better at backgammon. Right. Yeah, you dunked on me, but I'll beat your ass. Yeah, beating someone's ass is the end. That's the end goal. That's what all sports aspire to be, is combat sports. So do you have plans for stuff you want to do outside of fighting now? Like now that you're retired and now you're settling in? Be a good dad. Be a good husband. That's my goals always. But I have a few other businesses I've had for years.

2:39:07I got a documentary. You got a great hot sauce. Got a great hot sauce. That hot sauce is legit, dude. Thank you, man. It's legit. Poirier's Louisiana style hot sauce. It's not white label. We made this. We developed it. It's very good, dude. It's very good. Thank you. I'm proud of it. I'm proud of it. Yeah. When you sent it to me, I was like, okay, I'll try it. I'm like, oh, shit. It's legit. Vinegar-based. Vinegar-based cayenne pepper. Very good. Yeah. Very good hot sauce. Thank you, man. We put a little celery in there. I can tell you put some work into that. Yeah, I didn't want it to. There's so many vinegar-based hot sauces on the shelf.

2:39:36You know, you get lost in that. And the shelf space is so hard to get. I'm learning all this business stuff as I move forward, you know. And now that I'm done fighting, I get to really see where the hot sauce is because every fight, every promotion, I got to talk about it. And sales always, around every fight, were great. But now we're going to level off and see what kind of stride we have. Well, it's legit, man. I recommend it highly. Thank you, man. Very good. Besides that, I have a few businesses in Lafayette, and I'm really getting excited. I have a documentary coming out this year. The same guys who made my first documentary, Fightville, I don't know if you've seen it, came out in 2011.

2:40:10It was on Netflix. Actually did a premiere here at South by Southwest. Showtime picked it up. But the same company that did that, Pepper and Bones, is doing my retirement documentary. So they did the whole last training camp filmed. They live in Germany, so they would fly down, stay in camp. They did the whole fight week in New Orleans. Then they came back down for Thanksgiving, this recent Thanksgiving, and finished up the documentary. And they have hundreds of hours of footage unreleased from when I was 17, 18 years old. Whoa. So they got the whole journey. Whoa. Just randomly, this guy was filming a war veteran.

2:40:50He and his wife are documentary makers. and they were following this guy who just got back from the Middle East and he happened to be a fighter. And I met the guy at a fight show I fought on. He was filming the other guy for a war film. Started talking, then he just, man, I'm interested in you. Let me start. Started filming me and then, dude, now I have all this hundreds of hours of footage of me fighting amateur, small shows, behind the scenes, at my house, like as a kid. Oh, that's incredible. Yeah, so we're going to put it all into this documentary. Dude, that's awesome. That's amazing. Well, listen, brother, whatever you do, you know, if you put the same energy that you put into becoming a great fighter, you'd be great at anything you do.

2:41:29That's just the beautiful thing about doing the most difficult thing is everything else is definitely going to be easier. I want to go back to the difficult thing. I don't want the easy path, man. It's so hard. It's so hard to let it go, right? It's hard to be as like I tell my wife. I say this a lot. Be a civilian. To go from fight life every day for so long to being a civilian, it's like I'm relearning who I am. Maybe a couple boxing matches. Maybe the UFC will let you out. I would love to. Do you think the UFC will let you out of contract, do some boxing matches? Nope, I don't think so. Unless the pot was big enough to wear, I don't think so.

2:42:02They should. But I'm not fucking fighting Floyd Mayweather. The pot ain't going to be big enough. Right. You know? Because there was a Russian company that wanted me and Nate to box. Oh. And the UFC said no? I didn't even bring it to them. Ariel Helwani hit me up and said, hey, any interest in this? I have interest, but I didn't want to bring it to Hunter and Dana. I didn't want to ask him. Give it a try. Yeah. Give it a try. See what happens after this. I tried to do the benefit. Let's do it in Zufa boxing. Yeah, that's silly that they don't want to do any crossovers, but I get it. Dude, I don't know if I want any more head trauma either, Joe.

2:42:34Yeah. Yeah, I want to raise my son and my daughter. That's true, too. That's true, too. I have 50-something fights. Right. That's true, too. Maybe just let it go. It'll never be gone. Keep it in the back of your head. Just work out. It'll never be gone. I want to take care of my head. I'm never going to stop. I'm never going to stop. I hope William's there tonight. Yeah, he'll be there tonight for sure. I didn't message him. Oh, he was there. William Montgomery. Shout out to William. Dude, I didn't even catch that you were saying that when you were jumping guillotine. Oh, in Miami? I'm never going to stop.

2:43:03I didn't realize that. And then everybody online told me, oh, he's doing William Montgomery. I was like, oh, my God. How did I miss that? I was 100 % doing William Montgomery. But also, I give you the benefit of the doubt. Dude, my delivery was kind of bad. It wasn't the exact. I was just so focused when I'm doing post fight interviews. I'm just always so focused in trying to get everything out of the fighter that they want to say. That's all I'm thinking of is what can I ask him that can help them better express themselves after this big victory? Yeah. You know, so it's like I was the underdog and Mike every time I went to the corners like stop jumping guillotines.

2:43:40You're giving up takedowns. You're not going to get cut it out. Don't do it. I'm like, was that the Benoit's underneath? Never going to stop. Yeah. Yeah. That was a great victory, too, man. That was a good one. Yeah, with the streak he's on, this aging well. Aging well, man. Very well. Listen, brother, you're an all-time great. It's an honor. So cool to have you here again. Thank you for having me. And congratulations on an amazing career. Thank you, Jim. And like I said, you're going to kill it with whatever you do. Whatever you do in life. I'm going to try to do the desk work and see where that goes, man.

2:44:08Yes, and buy his hot sauce. It's legit. You heard. All right. Thank you, brother. Bye, everybody.

2:44:18Thank you.