JRE MMA Show #179 with Josh Thompson & "Big" John McCarthy

24:26He's like 210, 212, 205. I mean, there's a few of those guys where I'm standing next to him like Gregory Rodriguez. I'm like, how? Yeah. How? How are you ever 185 pounds? How was Alex 185 pounds? I stand next to him and go, you've got to be shitting me. Nuts. Nuts. It's unbelievable. And at 185 pounds, nuclear power, but I don't think he took a shot as well. He didn't. There's no doubt about it. You can go back and look at his fights. He got hurt by shots that were not as hard as the ones he's taken at 205. Right. Based upon, it's that weight cut. It's the point of diminishing returns, right? It is.

25:04It's like there's a place where you're just doing it too much. And, you know, you kind of love to see freaks. You love to see a guy like Alex weighing at 185. You're like, good luck with that. Good luck with this 226-pound fucking Amazon warrior that pretended to be 185 for five minutes. For five minutes. But you take a look at him. I'm so surprised how he can make the weight. When you pass by him and you see how tall he is, how big he is, and you see him with the face off with Cyril Ghosn right now, and you're like, how would this guy ever make 185? He's 250 now. Oh, yeah. Which is crazy. I saw him last week, and it's like, Jesus Christ.

25:37Dude, 250 means that's almost 70 pounds different from his UFC debut. The only thing that makes me believe that we're going to see a better Alex is because he doesn't have to kill himself. Yeah, but he also put on muscle. And there's an issue with that. Exactly. Again, diminishing returns. How much is that muscle going to do? This is where you try to tell all fighters. And, you know, it's Joe, if when you were fighting in Taekwondo, did you care about the strong guy or did you care about the fast guy? The difference is MMA with grappling. The difference is with weight. Like if you get a big, heavy guy and he gets on top of you, you're all your speed is gone.

26:19Absolutely. You're right. It's gone within the first three or four minutes. But the problem with being the bigger, stronger guy in the lighter weight class is you're never the faster guy. And so you've got to be able to maul that that person to be effective and it only lasts for a certain amount of time If you had to dehydrate yourself to that point where speed is always there When someone has it to a point unless they get tired and that speed is hard for you to handle But there's guys that were big for the weight class and had ridiculous speed like Conor McGregor is a perfect example that yeah connor at 145 was fast as fuck connor was absolutely dehydrated to the point of being a concentration camp victim oh yeah he looked like death i mean it was unbelievable however once he got in there yeah he was fast as fuck oh i'm not saying look he used to he used to lose so much at 145 he was he looked like that he was killing himself i remember the weigh-ins like interviewing him at weigh-ins like this is skeletal oh my god but then you see him the The next day, I'll fall.

27:21I know. He looked good. Looking fucking handsome. He was also, what was his age back then? 26, 27? Right, right. You can't do that now. No, you can't do that now. No, it gets to a certain point in time when you have to realize you're cutting too much weight and it's actually ruining your career. But I think the evidence has been pretty clear. When you see guys go up in weight after killing themselves for so long, they've had success. A lot of guys have. Look at Max. I was just about to bring him up. I just had Dustin Poirier on the podcast yesterday, and we were just talking about how he's like, Look, Max, the first time he came up to 55, didn't put the weight on properly.

27:52Second time put it on properly, he's like significant difference in power, mobility, movement. The BMF fight with Gaethje? Oh, come on, man. That guy should have never went down to 45 again to fight Topuri. It's too much loss. What? What are you pointing it out? Because we had that argument about that exact thing of he, Josh was saying, look, he should never, it was a championship fight. He was getting a world title fight at 145. Yeah, right and I said look it's a world title fight. I understand why he's going back down He's going he's making a huge mistake. It should never take it. He should stay at 155 You know work yourself into a title fight and I go I Understand why he's taking it's a dad made him the number one contender.

28:31He just engaged I understand why he took the fight 45 might maybe he would have favored that fight with Ilya because Ilya is a smaller guy than Islam Because if you think about it Islam he fucking smothers everybody Yeah, he does. And his striking is dangerous as fuck. Well, of course you know. I've tricked him a hundred thousand times. But it's like that guy, he's so fucking terrifying once he gets a hold of you. He submits everybody. He's a whole lot better in the stand-up than people give him credit for. Oh, he is? His stand-up is actually really good now. He head-kicked Volkanovski. I don't care if Volkanovski took it on 11 days notice.

29:05He's still head-kicked Volkanovski. He's got a sneaky left head-kick, high-kick. It's nasty. He fucks people up standing up, and that's part of the problem. is that you get accustomed to thinking about this guy as a grappler. You're worried about the takedown, exactly. Yeah, and then all of a sudden, bing. Yeah, my point was, though, was that he put the weight on properly. He looked fantastic against Justin Gaethje. And then to go back down there to fight Iliad, I was like, it doesn't make sense. You're the number one guy or number two guy. It's hard on your body. It is. You kill yourself to get back down, and then he gets knocked out, which we had never seen before.

29:34Well, that's Roy Jones Jr., too, right? Remember when Roy Jones Jr. went up and fought Ruiz, and then he went all the way down to 75 and got knocked out by Tarver. Yep. It's like I don't think your body wants to go back down again You know you put on all that weight over like a year you're lifting weights You'll get and max had a like a ridiculous strength and conditioning program. He put real weight on he looked very good at 55 When max fought Aldo the first time for the title he uh He weighed you know obviously weight in at championship weight 145 the night of the fight Joe now He was in street clothes, but they put him on a scale 178 What?

30:08Swear to God. That's insane. Now he was still clothed. That's crazy. What is he wearing? Rocks in his pockets? That's crazy. Frank Shamrock with quarters in his pockets. Right. What do you want Tito? Let's just be real charitable and say his clothes weigh 10 pounds. Exactly. That's crazy. You're looking at more than 20 pounds. That's crazy. But it happens all the time. The show that just happened in California at the Inuit doing with that, the MVP. The one guy, 27-pound difference in weight at 170 pounds, came in 27, 197. Who was it? I want to say his name. Was it the guys right before Saladin Parnas?

30:49Freema? Freema? It starts with a Z, I want to say. I can't think of it. But 27 pounds. Well, obviously the biggest one was Rumble Johnson. Absolutely. Rumble Johnson was the craziest. He would weigh 230 and make it all the way. 170? Well, it's basically what Morales is doing right now. MVP event on Netflix. Fazil. Fazil, there you go. Namo Fazil recorded the highest weight gain, 27.2 pounds. That's insane. Can you believe that? That's insane. That's so much. He got into the cage at 198 for a 170-pound fight. I would love to get Morales on the scales, like right before he fought Sean Brady. Oh, yeah.

31:26Excuse me, sir. Sean Brady is a thick human. He's not super tall, but he's thick. Oh, yeah. He is put together. And Morales made him look like a lightweight. Like he was in the wrong division. Exactly. He looked like a light heavyweight. I was trying to make sense of it watching it on TV. I thought maybe it was the camera angle. And then they shifted. I was like, no, he's still bigger than him when he's further away. He's further away. He's still bigger. He's way bigger than him. That's a crazy situation where a guy can do that. And it's like the Pereira situation in 88.5 too. When a guy can do that, how long can you do it?

31:59That's the question. You know, because you're basically killing your kidneys every time you do it. You're just taking a little bit out of them. That was the problem with AJ, you know? Like, I used to coach and corner AJ early in his career when he first came to the UFC. And that was his problem. He'd make weight. Sometimes he'd make it. Sometimes he would. He missed weight a lot to the point where. Do you think that affected whatever happened? Yeah. Absolutely. God, that's fucking horrible. Yeah. That's fucking horrible. Again, you're leaving small bits and pieces of yourself. Of course. In that damn cage every time.

32:27When I first heard. Even when you win. He died. I was like, no. There's a true science to cutting weight and he just he didn't have it down. He wrestled you know NCAA He wrestled division two like he was a really good wrestler He knew how to make weight but then trying to kill himself to get to 70 every single time which he never had to be Yeah, he never had to be out of me. He has massive power Oh, God. He did great at heavyweight. He beat Arlovsky at heavyweight in the World Series of Fighters A long time ago. Broke his job. He was still super legit. Broke Arlovsky's job. Yeah, not that Arlovsky's not super legit now.

32:59Fucking guy wins bare-knuckle heavyweight championship at like a hundred years old. Dude, you gotta love it. And fought it smart. Yeah, look at there's a you take a look at Andre Arlovsky people say whatever they want about his careers amazing Since UFC 28 was his first show. Nuts. Okay, went all the way into today's day basically And but he changed his style Arlovsky was a big power puncher for a long time and then was getting hit with big shots and said, you know what, I'm going to be a volume guy. And he was successful with it and didn't take near as much damage. Yeah, he fought a lot more technical, a lot slicker.

33:37Didn't take big chances. Beat a lot of good guys, too. Beat Travis Brown when Travis was in his prime. Oh, that fight with Travis Brown was a freaking awesome fight. Awesome fight. Awesome fight. Yeah, look at he beat Rothwell tore Rothwell up which is a lot of people were super surprised by that Oh, yeah, a lot of people thought you know Rothwell's a tank of a man Yeah, and he's a fucking scary big puncher, and he just looks hairy like a fucking bear. He's scary Rothwell's close to 400 pounds Is that real yeah, it's real. He's really that big he's that big Unbelievable, but meanwhile he's the one getting busted up in this fight, and it was because you know Arlovsky was just fighting very clever Just so tough after all these years, man.

34:22You watch this fight right now, they think that this fight gets stopped for that cut on his forehead. That is not why. He has a cut on his eye running up into his tear duct. And that's why it wasn't that big of a cut. But any time it goes to the tear duct, there's the doctor saying, oh, no, it's over. Yeah, to touch on what John was saying, though, is it really just comes down to how he changed his style of fighting. He either fought you all the way in or all the way out. He fought you in that phone booth so you couldn't get off big power shots to avoid being knocked out Because he went through a phase where he was getting clipped a lot getting knocked out Getting hurt Yeah So he made that adjustment that's good on him And all those years in the game never lost his enthusiasm No You know He's a character Never got out of shape Who are you talking to?

35:02He's fighting influencers at shows Have you? I saw that Not the fucking little kid That was crazy Those fucking dumb kids Right? Little midgets running around trying to fucking get him I was like what are you guys doing? Are you crazy? Do you know who that is? The best part was that the flint florister kid goes, hey, you can fight my bodyguard. The bodyguard's in the background going, uh-uh. Sure. Yeah, I'll do it. Uh-uh. It's like, yeah, I'll fight him. That's a good idea. If your bodyguard doesn't know who Orlovsky is, you need to get a new bodyguard. He's telling him that my bodyguard will fight him.

35:34I was like, oh, shit. Jesus Christ. Did you guys watch the Rico Verhoeven-Usyk fight? Oh, yes. I watched the ending, yeah. Oh, yes. I thought it was a... I don't want to say robbery because I guess apparently Usyk was up on the scorecards 2-1. That's robbery. That's the robbery. That's the robbery. If that's the case, that's the robbery. He was up, I guess. I thought, first off, Rico Verhoeven, we know what he's been in kickboxing. He's been fantastic. Greatest of all time. Unbelievable. Greatest of all time. And you can look back on certain people, Ernesto Hust, how great he was. Badahari was a badass.

36:08All of them were awesome, but Rico's accomplished more than anybody. Absolutely. He's been undefeated for more than 10 years. In kickboxing, that's nuts. It is. Especially with the amount of rounds, comparatively and stuff, because you can have a bad round and it can really affect your fight just like MMA. But this fight, I really thought going in, I go, look, Rico will do okay for the first couple rounds and then it's going to start to get to him. I was shocked by it. He fought very clever. He didn't fight big. He actually created the problems of closing that distance. Every time he'd look out close, he kept on getting into the phone booth.

36:41And he would do work. And it was causing Usyk nothing but problems. Also, Rico is known for his discipline and his fitness. He's a guy who always has tremendous conditioning. And I think there's a lot of heavyweights that would be surprised at the work that this guy does and the pace that he could put on. So a lot of people are like, oh, he's going to get tired. He only fights three-minute rounds and five rounds. Honestly, what I was thinking, it gets past five rounds. I'm wondering how he's going to be able to hold that pace. The guy's such a cardio fiend, and he's always shredded. And he's so used to combat, too, that getting in there, just fighting Usyk, it's not a big deal.

37:18That right hand right there was, I mean, beautiful. Bro, he was winning 8-2 in my eyes. Okay. I thought he was winning 8-2 going into the 11th round when the fight was stopped. Now, the fight shouldn't have been stopped the way it was stopped. But also, that was in eight seconds after the knockdown. So after he gets knocked down, he doesn't have his mouthpiece. So then they have to go over the corner. They rinse off his mouthpiece. That's a mistake right there. Yeah, the whole thing's a mistake. It takes like 30 seconds. And then the referee stops it when he's still standing moving around. Look, if there's one of the things that changed in boxing since I, like I referee boxing now.

37:53So here it is right here. This is the end. We could watch it real quick. So this is the end. Look at all this time. So he's up and he goes over. This is a mistake right here. Lumbering over to his corner. Hey, come on over. Watch the first thing that happens, and this is what we'll talk about. Oh, a drop. That's on purpose. Of course. I'm doing that on purpose. Of course, I would. Any second counts. But then, look at this. So he swarms him with some punches, but Rico's moving. He's covering up. He's moving. What is he supposed to do? What is he supposed to do? That's a bad stoppage. I agree with you.

38:24So if you're going to stop it because you felt like the first knockdown was too much, why would you let him rinse the glove off? And he didn't take significant damage after that. That's a bad stoppage. Well, and it's also the end of the round. One second. It's the end of the round. It's literally the end of the round. I think he actually stops it when the round's over. Look, as the referee, Joe, you know all of this. And if you don't, you're not doing your job. First off, you know he's got a full minute. If I let this go one second, he's got a full minute to recover here. Even if I did think he was a little bit hurt.

38:55Now, I think that if that was a legitimate eight count and they went right back to fighting, he would have stopped him there. Maybe. I think he was really rocked. When you see him go back to his corner, maybe is the key word. See, one of the things that used to be, though, in boxing, it was always that you would, if a mouthpiece hit the ground, you had to take it to the corner, have it rinsed with water, and have it placed back in the fighter's mouth. Right. Okay, that's not the way it is anymore. Because of MMA and the fact that we take a mouthpiece off of the ground and, shoot, stuff it right back in the fighter's mouth, they have now changed to the point of they do the same thing.

39:26And the difference is many times we'll hand the mouthpiece to the MMA fighter because they have gloveless fingers. Right. Right. And they put it back in. Sometimes we'll put it back in depending upon situations. But in boxing now, you take it. I'll put it back in his mouth. I'll say, is that good? Boom, fight. Right. And you don't. Is that universal? Is that in Egypt as well? Do you think that's possible? You're talking about under the unified rules of boxing now, which is North America. Okay. Okay, that's, you know, most of the time you go to Egypt, they're still fighting under the unified rules.

40:01But the refereeing is always going to be different when you get a referee from England or somewhere. It's a little bit different. But I wonder if the referee rules are different over there, if you're supposed to rinse off the mouthpiece before you put it back. No, what it means is you have not advanced as a referee to understand what we do now. Right, but what I'm saying is do they have different rules over there? No, this is what I'm saying. Definitely not? You have not advanced as a referee. to understand what we do now. Mouthpiece goes down, you pick it up, you're right back in the field. Can you?

40:30Yes. So it's like when the UFC goes to a country that doesn't have a commission, they'll bring Herb Dean, they'll bring referees with them, so they know the rules to make sure that something like this doesn't happen. That referee hasn't followed up with the rules in a big-time fight, so it costs them. He's not gone and advanced his training to understand, this is what we do now, and this is why. Because we don't want, I don't want to take that time from Usyk, because Usyk did his job. He hit him with an uppercut that absolutely blasted him, puts him on the mat. You go and he gets up. You give him the mandatory.

41:02Now his mouthpiece comes out. Am I going to walk it over to a corner and have that mouthpiece washed out with water, which does what for it? Does it disinfect it? Kills all the cooties. Exactly, okay? And that's the real thing. So it doesn't do anything. Obviously, if there's something in the mouthpiece, we remove the thing from the mouthpiece. But normally it's just spitting blood if that's what's there. Put it back in. Boom. Bring him back in as abruptly as you can to make it fair for Usyk, who gained an advantage in the fight. You don't want to give the advantage to Verhoeven. Also, his mouthpiece came out earlier in the fight as well.

41:39It's like that's a bad mouthpiece for a guy who's a world-class kickboxer, world champion kickboxer. That thing should be so hard for you to pull out. Yeah. It's odd that it kept falling out of his mouth. Rico with a boiling bite is nuts. in the heavyweight division do you remember Carl Parisian sure he would wear a boiling bite that wasn't boiled straight out of the packaging that's the way people are though that's wild to me boiling bites are nuts well it's also nuts we talk about this on the USC broadcast all the time but I think it's nuts that you're still allowed to wear a Thai steel cup I think it's fucking crazy I think it's crazy I would too Yeah, that's all I ever wore.

42:21I can't believe I can't wrap my head around how fighters don't wear them a hundred percent I agree with you a hundred percent. However, it should be illegal. It's fucking crazy You have a piece of metal over your dick Actual iron over your cock and if a guy kicks it with his toe, it's gonna shatter I've always wondered the north-south position. You just start humping their head, right? Oh, dude There was one that did that Do you remember that guy boss Rootin student? I trained with him at legends and he mounted me once and he almost made me tap right yeah By just digging his dick into my sternum This is so rude In Grapevine, man, I'm like, bro, you're fucking killing me with this It was horrible Oh, Shoney Carter used to wear an oversized coat Also awesome for arm bars, too That's how Frank Mir broke Tim Sylvia's arm Oh, yeah, that makes sense That completely makes sense But I think he would have broken it if it was just as nuts As strong as Frank could be As strong as he was as how good his arm bar was in that position, that was a crazy situation.

43:19Oh, yes, it was. That was crazy because I don't think the people in the audience had any idea what had happened. If you go back to that, because Herb Dean was a referee, and Herb did a great job, but I was actually in the corner of Tim Sylvia where I was sitting, and I had Jeremy Horn and Matt Hughes and Pat Miletic are in his corner, right? And I had the same view that they had. And what you saw was Tim Sylvia, but you saw his elbow out from that arm bar, away from the hip. And all of a sudden, Herb's stopping it. And they are going crazy. They're going, what are you doing? And they're calling him every name in the book.

44:00And I go right inside the octagon, and I go, Herb, what did you have? And he goes, John, his arm broke. I go, his arm broke? And he goes, I heard it, and I saw it. Yeah, you can see the vibration. And he goes, his arm broke, right? And so at the time, the person who was in charge of the medical staff for the Nevada State Athletic Commission, since it was in Nevada, they're looking at Tim, and Tim is like going, you know. But you saw Tim slowly stop using that one arm. It started going down to the side as reality started setting in and the pain started coming. But they basically said, there's nothing wrong with his arm.

44:37Right? I swear to you, Herb's greatest response I've ever heard. He goes, X-ray that motherfucker. Because Herb never cusses, right? He goes, X-ray that motherfucker. It's broken, right? And sure enough, straight across both bones. Well, we could see it in the replay. Oh, yes. And you called it out. Because everybody was booing. I'm like, you got to watch this. Watch this. What's that? What's that right there? That's a broken arm. When I saw it the first time on TV, I thought it just shifted off of the cup. Because sometimes you'll see that. The bone will shift off. But then you can tell. It had two distinct pops.

45:10It had like that highlight where something bends, like a piece of plastic. It looked horrible, man. Oh, my God. He's broken more arms. He broke Noguera's arm, that spiral fracture. Spiral fracture with the Kimura, yeah. He's nasty, man. It's funny because if you're around Frank and you're talking, he'll always say. Oh, here it is. Oh, God, I don't want to watch it again. Watch it. Here it comes. Right here. Pop. Pop. Pop. Oh, yeah.

45:41Oh, God. And it's the forearm, too, which is, like, super unusual. And everyone's wondering, why'd you stop it? Why'd you stop it? Oh, dude, Herb was getting booed out of the arena there. I remember this. I remember that. And Tim was complaining. Oh, yeah. Like, come on, bro. Like, you know what just happened. He has to know what just happened. Oh, he knows? He's just such an animal. He wanted to fight with a broken arm, which, you know, literally, you might have to get it amputated. If you did that. Oh. Who knows the kind of damage you would have after that. You could lose your arm. Yeah, you literally could lose your arm.

46:15But you'll get people all the time. I mean, some of the commentators on some of the shows, oh, if he wants to fight, let him fight. It's like, shut up. Shut up. Shut up. You've got to protect the fighter from themselves sometimes. Exactly. This is not life and death. If you lose a fight, I know it sucks. But it just sucks, and it's not life and death. It's okay. Crazy situations like Carlos Olberg, who knocks out Yuri Prohoska with a clearly blown out knee. Oh, yeah. If that went to the round, at the end of the round, they would have probably stopped the fight. Well, think about what Santos, right?

46:47He ended up fighting Jon Jones with two torn out ACLs or PCLs, right? Yeah. That's Jon Jones. Yeah. I mean. And gave him a good fight. He gave him a great fight. I think that was a split decision. Oh, it was. Which is nuts. Yeah. It's nuts. He could have won. If he had one more incompetent judge. now we're going to incompetent judges now we're gonna have problems well whoever was judging the fight was incompetent those those people were ridiculous the fact that they didn't have rico ahead is crazy yeah they just i think when you got a guy like usick who's arguably the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time he's definitely in the conversation and then you have so much money involved in him being undefeated and so and whether the referee's corrupt or not they know Whether the judges are corrupt or not, they know.

47:33And if they fuck things up for everybody, you know, there's some weird shenanigans that go on in boxing. Remember that lady that scored, it was a Pacquiao fight against Tim Bradley. She was one of the ones that she scored a bunch of fights. I thought you were going to talk Canelo against Triple G. There was a Canelo one that she scored bad. Yeah, there's a she scored a bunch of fights where you're like what the fuck is this and then you have to realize about betting props Yeah, no no it's not Adelaide Byrd though. No Adelaide Byrd was was the Yes, she very nicely. She's a I'm gonna give her props in this first off She doesn't do a whole lot of boxing mark, but she does do a lot of MMA does a lot of the UFC still and that woman watches more fights goes to more trainings, she puts in all the time that you could imagine to always try to get better.

48:30She is asking questions all the time. Now, if you're going to sit there and say, well, can she roll? No, she can't. But she knows what, if you say, okay, what's this? She'll tell you. What's this? She knows it. I'm sure. She puts in that time. But you're always going to have the, there's certain fights no matter what. They're always going to be there. As the judge, you always, You're trying to do your best. Yeah, but there's this one lady where she was involved in quite a few ridiculous ones. And the Tim Bradley, Manny Pacquiao one was a big one. And then they looked at some other ones, and then she stepped away from it.

49:06The problem is, and I'm not accusing this lady or anybody of this, but I'm saying that some people have done this in the past, is that all you have to do is make it a split decision. All you have to do is be one shitty judge that even though it was clearly for this guy, you say it's for that guy, And someone's making a ton of loot. Yeah, and especially in this day and age with betting 100 % man of the UFC has a real problem Oh, yeah, there's a real problem with quite a few fights The FBI has looked into quite a few fights and there's one that they focused on the beginning Because they knew that there was some improper betting, but now they're focused on a bunch of other ones as well Yeah I'm gonna say this you can get away with it John to think that you're gonna be able to get away with it You're an idiot just fucking stupid.

49:49You're an idiot as the fighter. You're a fool but if you were around the judging especially in the UFC because it's mainly a lot of the same guys you know these guys are on text links they are consistently every UFC fight my phone blows up it blows up with fighters it blows up from other officials asking what about that what did you see what do you think and it's because look there is at times we get media and we get people talking about our fights that call robberies when there's no robbery. It's a close fight. And your guy you wanted your guy to win and he lost. Hello did not win. I pointed it out to him.

50:37I had him sit one time. Hey, sit where the judge sits. Because you get one view. You as the commentator, you get that beautiful monitor that's in front of you. There's times when you're watching the fight live and there's times when you're watching the monitor because the angles change as the judge. Now they put the monitor there for the judges and, and like the UFC puts a great monitor there for them, but we didn't always have that. Right. And you didn't always, many times you had the worst seat in the house to be able to judge a fight. Especially if there's a post in front of you. Yeah. And it's so different than what people think.

51:11And it's when you are the one that's putting your name on that scorecard, you're signing it and you know, this counts. It's everything. It is everything to you to be right. You want to be right. 100%. But many times what you're seeing, and that's why they're at the three different points, and that's why people get into this, well, it was a split decision. Split decision is not always bad. Do you think there would be a benefit in having five judges instead of three? No. No? I've worked with it. I've done it too many times. It doesn't change anything. It doesn't? Doesn't change anything. I'm just being honest.

51:44If it did, I would say, yeah, we should do it. But if you have two bad judges and three good ones, the right guy wins. Why do you have two bad judges? That's the question. That is the question. But when you're on the road, let's be honest. When we're on the road, we do it. Let's not even name a state. But we show up and we have to use these regular local guys. There have been issues. I'm not saying there haven't. Right. I'm not saying there are bad judges. Yes, absolutely. I love cops. There's bad cops. There are. I love dentists. There's some bad dentists. There's some fucking people that do surgeries that don't have to do them.

52:14You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. It's like it doesn't. It's not saying that the people that do it and do a great job shouldn't be supported and praised and they definitely should But it's also it's like it would benefit. I think everybody to have a few more opinions Like I like verdict to be seen verdict MMA I think I bumped them up a bunch of times. I think they're accurate like ninety nine percent of the time I look at the verdict score. I'm like most close time out of a hundred fights most of the time I agree with the verdict score. There's many times though You can take a look at this one when I started teaching the command course and everything people Oh, you've got to teach this.

52:47I'm teaching people to take my job. Right. But in the end, I would... Well, they need a lot of referees, luckily. They need a lot of judges. But they also need a lot of referees for the big ones, where you can't fuck this up. Okay. You know what I mean? Yeah. It is. It's important, but it's not the job that people think it is. It is not as easy as people think it is. Oh, it's definitely not easy. And it's definitely... It's the hardest job next to being a fighter. Yeah. I think it's fighters number one referees number two Yes, and no and you're right as far as the fighting is much more difficult as far as You know what it does to your body and and what you have to put out into it and all that way more difficult So the consequences of fucking it up boom I don't have the consequences if I make a bad calls as a commentator.

53:32It's like oh Joe's an idiot Okay, that doesn't mean anything like nobody loses money like somebody could lose half their fucking purse which I hate by the way I don't like the whole win bonus. Everyone's trying to win. I hate it. Can't stand it. Can't stand it. You're a prize fighter. You should get paid to compete. This is the number. Whether it's$200 ,000 or$200 ,000, it shouldn't be dependent upon judges' decisions. It should be dependent upon you showed up, you fought your fucking ass off, you're trying to win. If you win, you're going to make more money. No one's trying to lose, right? So it's like, what are we doing?

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54:45You'll also receive an additional 10 % off plus free overnight shipping on your first order. Visit BlueChew.com for more details and important safety information. I'm okay with the win bonus, but it's got to be more skewed towards the show money. So give me, like, let's just, I'm using a round number of$100 ,000. Say 80-20. 80-20, right? And then you give me another bonus for a finishing bonus. If I give a knockout you give me another 20 or 50. Well, they're doing that now. You know what I mean? The UFC's doing finishing bonuses. Yeah, exactly. But I just don't like win bonuses. I think you, you know, the fact that there have been bad decisions and guys have lost half their fucking purse when they need it.

55:20And it's, you got robbed. That's when you really got robbed. Not just a decision. Absolutely. You got robbed financially, which is fucking crazy to me. I think fighters should get, I don't think they fight harder. I don't think anybody fights harder. They want to win. They want to win. That's it. No one's fighting harder to get a bonus. It's just something sitting out there. And if they are, they probably shouldn't be fighting in the UFC anyway. Because they're not at an elite, world-class level if they're fighting harder for a bonus. If you're in the top 15, you're not going to fight harder because you're getting paid more.

55:49You've worked your way there to get there. Your pride is too involved. Your ego's involved. You're too fucking good. Yeah. You want to show everyone you're the best. I've always said, look, if you ask a fighter before the fight, hey, how much are you going to win for that? If they're going to get a 40-40, if they're going to get a 50-50, they're going to say$100 ,000. They've already mentally spent that money. And trust me, it's always – It's true. They've got that win bonus in there. That's true. Kind of impulsive. Fighters aren't the best at saving cash. I know. But you take a look – You know who's good at saving money, though, is Strickland.

56:22You would think he'd be the most reckless guy? Very smart. Very smart with his money. Yeah. Yeah, most of these guys are buying jeans and shirts and glasses. No, no, they're buying... This dude's buying Wranglers and boots. He wears the same thing every day. White beater tank tops. Yeah, he doesn't have anything expensive. He doesn't care. But he saves his money, man. He's got a lot of money saved up. Good for him. Learning how to be frugal is very important, especially if you're an athlete. Any type of athlete. It doesn't matter. Especially if you're an athlete like Strickland who still rides a motorcycle.

56:48That's a psychopath. I still ride a motorcycle. He still? Oh, yeah. You didn't learn anything from Frank Mir when he broke his femur? I'm surprised fighters. Frank me are breaking his femurs what kept me from getting a motorcycle license. Yeah, that was the last one Yeah, two friends crashed one friend wiped out and fucked up his shoulder and then Frank Mir got t-boned And I was like I'm out it all comes down. There's the old saying there's two types of motorcycle riders ones that have been down and ones that are going down Yeah, and that's just the truth. That's the problem It's like I felt like I'm hurting myself so many days a week just doing jujitsu They're like that doing that on top of that.

57:20It's like I don't want to risk no Yeah, especially if you haven't been doing it because there's ways to ride and you don't ride. I can watch people on the road and I go, that dude doesn't know how to ride. Scary. You can just buy a bike. That's what's scary. You get a license, figure out how to ride it, buy a bike, and you fucking... You could go to a car dealership right now and pick up a Corvette ZR1. You got a 1 ,000 horsepower car. Who knows if you know how to really drive that thing? Who says that you're prepared to drive that thing? That's a fighter jet on wheels. This is fucking insane.

57:54And they just give it to some kid. But it's awesome. Yeah. Your parents are rich, so you have a fucking fighter jet on wheels? Like, this is nuts. But what you're talking about, Sean Strickland, with how many cars do you need? You know, I tell fighters all the time, how many cars do you need? Dude, I've had arguments with Rampage, because Rampage's got eight million cars. And I go, dude, how many cars can you put your ass in at one time? Right? And it's like, you're blowing through money that you can't get back. You can't get back. You know, it's like he tries about cars. It's depending on what kind of cars you have.

58:24Some cars. Oh, if you could if you're going to do an investment, that's fine. Muscle cars. Shit like that. They're always worth money. I think if you're a fighter, you need to take a page out of Forrest Griffin's book. Right. With the scion that he won for the ultimate fighter. He drove that thing into the ground. Door handles were off. He had to roll the window down to open the door from the outside. He's such a character. You know, but I mean, that's how you have to live. If you're going to be a professional athlete, a professional fighter, that's how you have to live, especially early in your career.

58:49You don't know how long it's going to last. Yeah, also, there's something to be said for the comforts of nice things and luxuries kind of slowing you down a little bit. Not everybody. Doesn't seem to do it to Armin Sarukian. No. That fucking dude, he breaks the whole rule book. Rich kid, fights like a demon, built like a Greek god. He is such a stud, man. Constantly competing and wrestling, doing everything. He's wrestling this weekend here at Roth. Wrestling in Arlington. Animal. Yeah, I thought what I saw last I said just keep doing what you're doing. Just killing it Just keep doing what you're doing.

59:23I think the best thing that could happen to him is not getting a title fight That guy's built No, yeah, I mean he's capitalized on the bad situation that he put himself in It was also the headbutt with Dan Hooker. Absolutely. That was fucking crazy Well because you're as you're as a promoter right you could have cost me all this money if you get if he gets cut Yeah, yeah, it gets cut though. They pull the fight. That's right. Oh my god. Can you imagine like come on knucklehead? Yeah, stop But I love watching him fight. What he's been doing with RAF, what he's been doing with his Nina drama stuff and all that stuff.

59:52Hey, keep going. Keep going, man. Very smart. People are talking about you. Very smart. And he is the most interesting contender for Elio Taporia. Absolutely. Oh, yeah. Without a doubt. 100%. Other than Justin, which is going to be wild. But I think him, the skills that he has, the wrestling that he has, and the size, he's a lot bigger than Elio. You know, I asked DC and Dustin both yesterday on my show, why do you think people were overlooking Justin? That's a good question. I mean... When I look at Gaethje, I'm like, he's got all the tools and the weapons. Ilya Teporia's heavy on the lead leg.

1:00:27Justin Gaethje's got a heavy leg kick. He's got a great uppercut. He's fighting the shorter fighter in Ilya Teporia. He's a bigger guy. He's a way bigger guy. He's not making 145 ever. No. He's a much bigger guy. He's a really good wrestler, and he's a nasty striker. And he's also kind of a fucking savage. No, he's not kind of. Yeah, I mean, like a real savage. Not like pretending. Like when he fought Michael Johnson in his UFC debut, he just threw himself at Michael Johnson. And he did the same thing with Patty Pimblitt. The Patty Pimblitt fight, he could have fought that fight a lot cleaner.

1:00:58And he just said, fuck you. I'm just going to walk you down and just blast you every chance I get and break you up. And that's what he did. And he's a fucking scary dude, man. Justin's a scary dude. When he's on, and this is the last dance, right? So you know that he's going to be hyper-focused for this fight. I just can't see why people are overlooking him. They just look at him like, oh, he doesn't have a chance. He's going to get knocked out. I think they're taking away from what? It's just because Ilya is so good. Because Ilya has done it to all these guys that are also really good. And he has destroyed them.

1:01:29You've got three all-time greats. Yes, in a row. In a row. Three in a row is nuts. Max Holloway, Alexander Volkanovsky, and fucking Dubronx, fucking Charles Oliveira. That's crazy. Crazy. Three KOs. Yes. I don't hold it against him, but I also, is it kind of somewhere, is there an asterisk next to it a little bit? because Volkanovski coming off the head kick knockout loss. Max Holloway cutting from 55 to 45 after putting all the weight on, then getting knocked out. The only one I would say no is Charles because he goes up, fights Charles. Charles, you know. Charles, no. Max Holloway, yes, because he cut the weight, but that was his decision.

1:02:03That's right. And no one should have let Volkanovski take that fight. You got head kicked four months ago into a coma. There's no fucking chance you should be taking a fight with the scariest puncher in the division. Is that a coach's corner family decision? It's him. He's an animal. He is an animal. He's a fucking animal. He thinks he can do it. Yeah, but see, that's when you have to have the people maybe in your corner, in your family, who are saying, hey. I think it's honestly in your family. I think you need someone who loves you. Someone who is just absolutely, totally honest, saying, you can't do this this fast.

1:02:36I'm not saying you can't do it, but you have to do these things to be able to make it to where you have an ability to take a shot like you used to because it's diminished at this moment. Not just that. You have to take into consideration that he gets knocked out and then he goes right into camp. Okay? So you're not going to rest your brain. No. You're just not. Even if you're just wrestling, you're not resting your brain. You can't. Anytime your body temperature rises, you're damaging your brain, especially if you haven't let it recover yet. And there's no way he let it recover. I mean, he got shinned, shinned to the dome by one of the biggest guys that ever fought at 55.

1:03:14Islam's huge for 55. Six foot tall. And he fucking takes the fight on 11 days notice with no camp, and he's eating barbecue and fucking drinking Fosters. I don't see that many. But, like, that's the guy. It goes to his mentality. He's a fucking all-time great. Oh, no doubt about it. He's an all-time great. And, you know, when you go back and look at his fights with Max, like, he was the first guy to figure out Max. Yeah. And then you look at what he did cleaning out the division. I mean, my God, I would have loved to see a fair shake. I would have never advised him to take that fight with Islam on 11 days notice.

1:03:50I don't care what the fucking UFC says. Go Jon Jones. What does Jon Jones do? Jon Jones had an opportunity to fight Chael Sonnen with very little notice. He was already in shape. Dan Henderson fight. Nope, won't fight him. Not going to fight him unless I have a full camp preparing just for him. I'm not giving anybody any fucking chances. Period. See ya. Bye. I'm the champ and if Volkanovski had that mindset He would have never fought in Islam unless he went through a full camp again because he almost beat him the first time It was a really close fight the first time the second fight he comes in.

1:04:21He's a little soft He's not in shape his mind's not right. It's also the difference in the weight cut for Islam Yes, Islam was on 30 30 some hours compared to rights. He's on Australia time The second time he's like fully rehydrated much more time to recover much more dangerous It was more of the expectation that Volk thought I'll just do the same thing I did in the first fight Of course because he's an animal yeah, that's where you need your brother. You need someone to go dude. I love you You're an animal you're one of the greatest of all time, but the brain is the brain like there's just certain you don't want to fight with Broken hand right okay, just because you can't see it doesn't mean your hands not your head's not damaged Your head's damaged.

1:05:00That's the difference though is exactly what you're saying is the brain doesn't hurt right? You know it doesn't have nerve endings and so you can't sit there and say oh man I've got this problem until you end up concussed right until that now all of a sudden the headaches are occurring and the bright lights start to bother you and All these things start to add up and you're starting to get mad about things that you can't understand why am I getting mad right now? Those are the telltale signs of hey, I need to step away for a while. Do you remember when Travis Luder fought? Oh Oh, yeah. Yeah. Who was it?

1:05:32Eastman. Eastman. Marvin Eastman. Marvin Eastman. And he caught Marvin Eastman with a punch. It was just a regular punch. Just nothing. Eastman went dead. Yeah. And then we found out later, oh, he got KO'd really bad, I think by Tito. Yep. In training. Yep. And it's like, that's it. He'd been KO'd twice. Twice in training. Oh, God. These guys are crazy. You look and you go, and that's why he went out the way he did. 100%. Because it was weird. Off of something he never would have been hurt by. It was weird. It was weird. It was like a straight left. They caught him at the end of the punch. End of the punch.

1:06:05Hardly moved him. Hardly moved him. Just fell back. Yeah, because his brain was damaged. You've got to give your time a full time to recover. 45 days. 100%. Up to six months. Eating more fats, more avocados, things like that to help your brain recover. When Juan Manuel Marquez knocked out Pacquiao, Freddie Roach said, you're not doing anything for a year. That's it. One year. And he got his chin back. He took that year off and he came back, actually recovered. But Freddie, being a longtime boxer himself and being around the game and seeing guys getting knocked out and seeing guys jumping back in too quick, he knew.

1:06:37Freddie being one himself. Yes. Look, people don't realize Freddie was actually a good boxer. He had a good amateur record. He was doing well in the pros. Do you remember who his trainer was? His trainer was Eddie Futch. Eddie Futch, who was the second trainer for Joe Frazier after Yance Durham died. And Joe Frazier, he was there for the thrill in Manila with Ali and stuff like that. And Eddie Futch told Freddie Roach, son, you're taking too many shots. You're getting hit with too many good ones. You're not responding the same way. You're done. You got to stop. And Freddie Roach got rid of Eddie Futch and continued to fight as a professional and just kept getting knocked out.

1:07:20and that was the end of his career and then he became the trainer and you can take a look at a lot of the issues that he has but as much as you're looking at that with Freddie, take a look at his brother Pepper who took a lot less is worse than Freddie. I mean Pepper's gone now but I mean head shots and trauma to the brain especially when you don't give it the opportunity to rest and heal. it will absolutely take and burn your career no doubt no doubt and there's no way to really tell there's so many guys that are damaged and we don't know because you meet them backstage like hey how you doing everything's great but meanwhile it's not great these guys are struggling they don't remember what you just said exactly and then they're talking to people that repeat things over and over and over again yeah and you can watch you know i hate to say it there was a fighter fought in the UFC, fought in bare-knuckle boxing now.

1:08:16He's now training guys. And it's Joey Beltran, okay? Had a decent career. Heavy puncher, took a lot of damage. And I'm just watching Joey Beltran walk off of stairs and having to go one step at a time with each foot. And you look and you go, damn. And you know, hey, he's been altered. He's a great guy. Right, but it's like that's what all of this does in the end. No doubt. You've got to understand. I try to tell fighters all the time, look, you're a Ferrari. You want to be a Lamborghini, you're a Lamborghini. But first off, it's like the whole John Jones thing is be careful of what you put in its gas tank.

1:08:59Same with other guys. I don't mean to pick out on John, but he's told the story of what he was doing. And so be careful what you put in the gas tank and realize you can only crash that car so many times before It's a piece of junk right and and it's hard to get that through that this is not gonna last forever And I'm not gonna be the same forever. Yeah, they just don't see it until all of a sudden it's there Well, that's why it's a real bummer when you see coaches that you know Love the fighters and they haven't stepped in they haven't done anything and they're they're keeping Training these guys because they'll lose them.

1:09:33Yeah, exactly And that's what's horrible. It's horrible that you, you know, you have, there has to be the kind of relationship where you get to a fork in the road and you go, this is what this is. Like, it doesn't mean that your life is over. No, it's the start of your next life. It's just, you can't identify yourself. Well, Josh, you could speak to this because, you know, you fought at the highest level for a long fucking time and you stepped away healthy. Yeah. And I did, I had this conversation with Dustin yesterday. I just said, Hey, like, I feel like you could still do it. You're right there.

1:10:02Like, you're one fight away from fighting for another title again. And he's like, it was just the time. And I completely respect that. I said, because he's having time now with his two kids, his wife. He's enjoying his moment. He just got done lifting. He was looking swole. And I was like, it's good to see you. He came on the show. He was all sweaty a little bit. Like, you know, he's enjoying this next chapter of his life. I like when guys go out like Khabib. Oh, absolutely. They offer him a bunch of money. He's like, nope. Yep. Good. did it done bye and I hate when people try to rag him on it it drives me crazy they sit there and go oh yeah but you know you know you could have done this you could have done that fools hey he gives zero fuck doesn't matter he doesn't care he doesn't look at look at what he did yeah that's all you need to know it look he dominated people that nobody dominated oh yeah and he did it in a crazy way like I'm speaking of Barboza I remember that fight where Barboza had that thousand yard stare So do I.

1:10:56In the first round, he was like, oh, my God, this is never going to go my way. No, it's not. It wasn't going to. Hey. I actually looked something up the other day. Khabib is the only guy who's never bled inside the UFC octagon. That's crazy. He's the only fighter to never bleed inside the octagon. That's crazy. What have I told you? That's wild. He's the most dominant fighter inside. Look at that. John Jones being, you know, considered the greatest. John Jones is the greatest as far as you're going to say who's done it better as far as all the championship fights and all of that stuff. John Jones is the guy.

1:11:28The most dominant fighter I ever stepped into that cage with was Khabib. Look at this. Khabib never visibly bled, was severely bruised, or was knocked down during his professional MMA career. Who's the only person you ever saw hurt him? Connor. Nope. No. Well, Gleason Tebow hurt him a little bit. You can say Michael Johnson. Michael Johnson. There was that top. Michael Johnson had one where he gave a little bit of one. That's right. I was doing that fight. That's right. Michael Johnson. And I was like, oh. Yeah, that's right. Michael Johnson caught him. He sucked it right back up. I said, I go, Habib, are you hurt?

1:11:57He's like, brother, come on. You know I'm not hurt.

1:12:03It was the same. It was so great. You talked about Michael Johnson against Gaethje. And after that fight, because I did that fight, and I told Justin, hey, congratulations. That was a great performance. You got hurt. You went through it. He goes, I never got hurt. I go, go watch the video. I never got hurt. I was like, I never got hurt. Oh, yeah, you got hurt. Those guys went to war. Oh, man. The crazy thing was when Khabib was on top of Michael Johnson and he was saying come on brother, you know I need deserve title shot He was saying I don't want to do this to you I don't want to and then when he almost when he got him in the Kimura.

1:12:33I was like please tap Oh, so you're saying please tap. Yeah, what do you think I'm saying? It was so I think the only reason why I didn't break is Khabib is Probably being kind. Yeah, like he's talking the whole time now the entire fight You have to give up. He's saying you have to give up. Come on, bro. You know, I need to type you to fight for title it's my destiny I have to fight for the title yeah I need to fight for the title you know this I deserve this you agree he's like you agree he's saying this is why he's beating his ass Michael Johnson's like huh I mean he was just a motherfucker dude so everybody agrees everybody agrees as he's beating his ass he's saying see everybody agrees how about when he was on top of Conor and he's saying let's talk now he's punching me in the face come on let's talk now he was a monster dude Khabib was just so relentless in that style.

1:13:21It's everything to do with his lifestyle. And this is where you get into, you know, you've seen it too many times, champions. And there's been great champions. But when you become the champion, everything in your life changes. The things that come your way change. You know, you get offered things that you didn't get offered in the same way before. You get all these opportunities. and all of a sudden instead of going to the gym, you're spending the day on a plane going to a location to do something. Sometimes it's for the promotion that you're working for. Sometimes it's for the UFC or whatever promotion there is because they're asking you.

1:13:57So you're missing that day of training. And then you're getting back on the plane and you're coming back the next day and that's another day that you're missing. He never missed training. He never changed his lifestyle. He did everything the same. And that's why he had the results he got. Well, for a super successful guy, he's still so humble. He's so normal to talk to. He's so balanced. And it's that discipline that he has. The discipline, his religious beliefs, he's just so rock solid. The thing about him is that he tries to make sure he puts the guys that helped get him there, tries to help them get elevated as well.

1:14:33And that's kind of what I'm trying to say is that how you've done with your guys, with your group of comics and friends, you guys all lift each other up. He does the same thing with the group of friends that he has. So not just like myself and D.C. and Islam and those guys. I mean, like when they go to travel for events, he takes care of the house. He makes sure that it's all organized, makes sure that there's enough room for everyone. There's food. You know, obviously all the other guys chip in, but it's like he's the one that's kind of organized and everything. He's the leader of that team. And I love seeing somebody that puts that much effort into guys that help get him there as well.

1:15:05Yeah, no, he's a real leader. He's a real leader. And now that he's coaching, I mean, you imagine you're a kid and you need motivation. You're literally being coached by one of the greatest combat sports athletes to ever walk on God's earth. And one that did it right the entire time. The entire time. And it is all about discipline and hard work. Like, you couldn't pick a better camp, especially if you're a grappling-based guy. You know, like, send him to Dagestan two, three years ago. That's the greatest meme of all time. I think what separates Islam and Habib and that whole group is that there's never a moment where they're not training.

1:15:41I was in Chicago at one of the events for Bellator. We were there, and I was headed down to the bar after the event. They were headed to the gym, passing me in the elevator. They said, come up and talk to me. So I was up there for an hour just chatting with them while they're riding bikes, lifting weights, getting their workout in, and everyone else is down at the bar drinking. Wow. And so it doesn't matter. They don't even look at it. They don't think about it. They just go right to the gym. They get their sweat on. and they're up there for two hours. It's not like this intensity for 25 minutes.

1:16:08Right. They're just working. Yeah. They're never letting themselves get out of shape ever. That's it. And then you see them in the morning, right, when they were training out at AK in the mornings. You'd see them at the track in the mornings. They would just jog, but then there was little stations where you do sit-ups and push-ups. They would do those. And they would do it for two, three miles. And they'd come to the gym at noon, and they'd do their workouts, sometimes hard, sometimes not. But they were always training, always working. And that's what separates them. They're not out at the club until two, three in the morning, Then trying to recover the next day they're not drinking they're not smoking they're not doing the no drinking is huge Huge huge if there's one thing that fucks fighters up more than anything.

1:16:42It's partying Oh, yeah drinking especially I guess coke But I don't have a lot of experience with guys that I knew that we're doing coke But I have a lot of experience with guys that were drinkers And you would see them in the morning on like they would go out Saturday night Sunday They'd be fucked up they show up Monday to train and they just look like shit because they had been partying too hard just two days ago. And you don't think that that's going to make a big difference. But if you're getting drunk on Saturday night, that's days before you're back to baseline. Days. And you can get away with it when you're 23, a little bit, kind of.

1:17:14But are you? Because you're probably not as good as you would have been. And then maybe you're going to get hit with some shots that you wouldn't have got hit with, or you're going to get tapped when you wouldn't have got tapped. And you take a look. That's the big difference if you go back and look at Habib's career. Go back and look at his first fight in the UFC and look at how bad and I'm serious how bad his stand-up was Oh, yeah, it wasn't the best. Oh, no, it was it was probably the worst Okay, it was I don't think it was the worst. It was bad. He did a lot of shit. Yeah, but take a look at it Those were his set-ups.

1:17:44Oh, yeah, it was it was tight. He always was improving. Oh, he was dangerous. Remember he dropped out He was throughout. He cracked Conor with a big right hand, which was like, everybody was like, holy shit. That was a shocker. I had several conversations with Shob about that because I went down and did his show a couple times in L.A. before that fight. And I said, look, stylistically, Conor's the better striker. I go, but the intimidation of the takedown and the threat of the takedown for Conor is going to make him hesitant. I said, don't be surprised if Habib ends up landing some good hard shots on the feet.

1:18:15That's a giant factor, the fear of the takedown. The bad about Kevin Randall when he fought Krokop, when he knocked him out, that was what it was. It's the fear of the takedown. The thinking. The thought process of, I can't let him. Well, you get it. If Kevin Randleman and Krokop fought a straight kickboxing match with no takedowns, Jesus Christ. It's a walk. I mean, you don't want to watch it. It'd be terrible to watch. But that threat of the takedown is this factor that keeps you from being comfortable. It keeps you from finding your flow state. That little hesitation opens up so many opportunities to catch him.

1:18:45Yeah, it's big. It's so big. You see it in fights all the time. when a guy just has this extra element of the take down. So that's why it's so impressive when you see a guy like Pereira where there's no thread to take down. There's no thread. It's not happening. He's not even thinking about taking down. He's just going to fuck you up. And now it's up to you to deal with that. We just don't have the level of wrestlers these days in the 205 and the heavyweight division to compete with him in the wrestling area. That's where you have someone like Steveson coming in, Gable coming in in the heavyweight division.

1:19:17Curtis Blades can wrestle now Josh Hokett Josh Hokett's the real deal he's a good athlete he's a good all around athlete he's a character you can go with a shtick he's got his shtick it's great but also he put up he put up in that Curtis Blades fight that fight as a heavyweight fight was awesome to watch terrible for your dome though and that's the crazy thing that he's going to fight Derek Lewis who's the biggest knockout puncher in the history of the fucking heavyweight division. More knockouts than anyone. And he's going to fight him, what, how many weeks? Seven weeks? Yeah, seven weeks. Seven weeks?

1:19:54Seven fucking weeks? After a war? You ever see Curtis Blade's fists? They're like this. They're like that big. They're gigantic. He's a giant man. And he hit him a bunch of times. Oh, he did. Big shots. I got to give it up for Curtis Blade's. What a fight he put on because he took some damage. He delivered some big shots. Mad hard. mad mad heart crazy crazy heart because he just did not want to lose that shit talking dude that's what a funny thing is like okay it will drop the the act when you talk to him in real life yeah and uh in in the ring you know in the cage after the fight i said dude that was a fucking amazing but he goes he goes i talked so much shit how many he goes i had to win i talked so much shit and then he went and did it again fuck it a little ilia tapori is out there trying to pick fights with him too.

1:20:45Great. Well, he just talks shit about so many people. He's just trying to get people upset and talk about it. He's just pushing buttons. Listen, that's the Conor McGregor game plan. I mean, Conor did it the best. Chael did it. Chael was the first, really, to do it in MMA. Chael did it. And then Conor took it to another level. But they kind of stayed in their lane. Like, this is my weight class. This dude doesn't care if you're 135, 145. He doesn't give a shit. He talks a ton of shit. He just wants controversy. He's basically like one of them kick streamers. He's just trying to talk shit as much as possible.

1:21:20Look what he's done, though, man. He has put himself. He can fight. And the UFC, for a division that the UFC has, man, they need these people. I think Gable's the man. That's what I think. That's your nightmare. That's Mike Tyson when he was 20. You know what I mean? He's still green. He's got some work to do. But I'm glad they signed him early. Try to develop him, hopefully, a little bit. Give him two or three more fights inside the UFC. The problem is the heavyweight division in the UFC is so shallow that you could see Gable fighting for a title within a year or two. Three fights. Three fights.

1:21:51Could be. Yeah, could be. He's going to have to learn a lot, though, in that process. 100%. He's got John in his corner. Yeah. He's a giant. You've got to give him credit, though. He has shown that, you know, first off, he's super fast. Oh, yeah. But he's also got a chin. He got kicked up into the head-neck area. He ate that sucker. Mm-hmm. You know, and continued on, and you go. Well, he's a tank. Don't let that happen again. Don't let it happen a lot. But man, you've shown, hey, he didn't let it affect him. He didn't back off. Well, he's an Olympic gold medalist. I mean, he's a winner. He is a small heavyweight, though, like that hybrid style heavyweight.

1:22:25Yeah, but that's the best. It is. Well, he's 250. He's just not tall, but he's wide as fuck. His legs. His legs and ass are huge. How about when he had that dirty boxing fight and then leapt over the top rope? Literally. That's the whole thing. Like it was a box of tissues on the ground. The best one was when he had the first one and he hits the guy. The guy's out going down and he's taking him down. He shoots a double while the guy's out cold. That's how fast he is. Yeah, he's the most impressive of the prospects. But, you know, hopefully this is going to excite the – like when you have a – like every division goes through these peaks and valleys.

1:23:00And when you have a lull, hopefully that's when people come in and they fill that void. And with Francis out of the UFC and it looks like forever. Which is a shame. It's a shame. I tried to negotiate that. I tried to bring the two of them back together. I tried to have a sit down. Dana was not interested. He doesn't want to have anything to do with him. It's about interpersonal relationships, interpersonal exchanges that they had that I'm not, I don't know what happened exactly. I just know what Dana told me, and I believe him. So it's like you have the best heavyweight in the world, and he can't fight in the UFC, which is to me crazy.

1:23:35I mean, let's do Molly together. Let's work this out. Let's fucking work this out, bro. We can do anything, right? I mean, this is why I'm not a promoter, and it's why I'm not a businessman. But if I was, I would go to dinner with him. Come on, man. I'm sure we could let our differences be aside. Like, he's not a bad guy. It's just, you know, sometimes people get upset. They say things. Like, smooth it out. My experiences with Francis have always been super positive. I enjoy talking to him. Francis has been nothing but kind to me and everybody I've introduced him to and stuff. He's always great.

1:24:11He's the scariest fucking heavyweight on planet Earth. Dude, he's huge. He's huge. I was at an awards thing and Misha Tate and Rashad Evans and I and my wife were taking a picture. And all of a sudden, there's shadow comes over the top of us. And it's Francis with his arms out like, hey, right? It's like, what the hell? When you get a natural 265, a guy's shredded, cutting weight to make 265. That's, I mean, there was many fights where he was like 270, 275. Oh, yeah. He would drop a little bit of weight to make the 260, which is also stupid. Why is there a 265-pound weight limit for the heavyweight division?

1:24:46That's nuts. Isn't that nuts? Yeah, I know why. Because you get those really big guys. It was like Lorenzo. Lorenzo was looking at it saying, I don't want fat guys. Really. That's what you know because you had it country everybody But it was at the time in in MMA you had no weight Limits was lovable to a point love Roy Yeah, no weight limits and that whole thing was he looked and said I don't want you know a bunch of fat guys We got to cut it off at a certain point because I'm not gonna have super heavyweight You know anything never they never did well not having super heavyweight is fine, but merge it Yeah.

1:25:25It's ridiculous. If a guy is like Value F, remember Value F? Oh, yeah. The Russian guy was seven feet tall and fought Holyfield. Let him fight! David Hay beat him. Remember that one? Oh, that's right. David Hay. And David Hay's a small heavyweight in comparison. Oh, yeah. Holyfield beat him too, right? Didn't Holyfield beat him? No, I don't think. Holyfield didn't fight Value F. I think they did. Did they? I think they did. Look that one up. I think they did. I might be wrong. I don't think. I'm not sure if Vander fought him. David Hay beat him. I know that. I might be wrong. oh there they are that's him 2008 crazy and Evander Holyville was a cruiserweight remember when he fought Dwight Muhammad Kawi who was 5 '7 Kawi was a 5 '7 cruiserweight he would get underneath dude he was a nightmare to deal with he was a mini Joe Frazier bro he was a tank and he would pull his trunks way up to here oh he was right under his nipples it was crazy Oh, value of one.

1:26:26Highly disputed. That's what it is. Majority decision. That's where you get a fucking referee in your corner. That's when, look at the age of Evander. Yes. 46. Which is crazy. Yeah, it is crazy. It's crazy when you see these guys that were, you know, like, oh, wow, Yoel Romero can do it. Okay, listen. He is a distinct. Is that from Earth? Okay, this is where this whole UFO thing comes in. Yeah, right? And here is the proof of, yes, there are aliens, and Yoel Romero is one of them. Yeah. It's wild. He is built differently than every other human being on the face of this planet. I told this story before.

1:27:00I don't know if you guys heard it, but this actually happened. One of his fights, he had broken into his orbital. The UFC brings him to a doctor. The doctor says to him, to the UFC, where did you get this guy? And they go, he's pretty awesome. He goes, no, no, no. I've never seen a human built like this before. They said his tendon in his eye were three times larger than a normal person's. They said the orbital bone is already healing. Like, this is crazy. I need no medicine. So then there's some questions. It's like, you know, listen, the Cubans are very connected to the Russians. We're very connected to science.

1:27:33It's wild. I mean, you got to think, if you had a kid and you knew this kid was going to be wrestling, bang, bang, bang, when he's coming up, you could make a totally different kind of kid. Oh. I read a story about this guy and his son started showing androgenic effects very early on. They were freaked out. The kid was getting... His dick was growing. He was getting hair. They're like, what the fuck is happening to this baby? They realized that the dad had testosterone cream. The dad was taking testosterone cream and he's hugging the baby. You know, bare chest to bare chest. It's transferring.

1:28:10He's literally juicing up his fucking kid. Have you seen Andre Smya? Yes. Holy Jesus Christ. Jamie, pull up that guy. Who's this? Andrei Smaev, he's kind of a hybrid. He's a bodybuilder, power lifter, strongman, arm wrestler. Yeah. He's 350 pounds. I mean, 27-inch arms, something like that. His hands are so big, they look like catcher's mitts. Look at his hands. Have you heard? You know what he's taking? Look at that 2016 to 2026. Look at the difference. 2016, look at his hands. Yeah, look at his hands' difference. his hands are huge because he takes a thousand units of growth hormone a day. That's 10 vials.

1:28:54What? He does? Yes. He's going to die. Whoa. You cannot take that much. That's insane. A thousand. Oh my God. Look at the size of him. That's so crazy. That dude does one arm pull-ups at 350 pounds. That's nuts. I mean, he is absolutely. And he's not and he has a regular 27 years old look at me looks like he's 50. Yeah, he looks at least 50 It doesn't he have a factory job. I think he has a regular job So it's not even he's not even doing it for money. Oh, no, but it's crazy when you see him when he was young Like look at that. That's him. That's the same guy I mean that that looks like a regular athlete.

1:29:30He is a regular athlete there and then all of a sudden he becomes this fucking immense freak He is He's also done a lot of testosterone to lose all of his hair like that. He did everything. He's done everything there is. Whatever you got, give me it. There's a lot of those dudes. Do you know about that guy Tom Haviland? Oh, yeah, from Australia. Six foot eight, 400 pounds. That dude, you take a look at him. He's unique in the fact he doesn't do the normal workouts and stuff. He does basic farm stuff. He picks up things, farmer walks with stuff that's ridiculously heavy. He does like a lot of, picks up axles.

1:30:06and weird shit. Dude, but he's 6 '8", let's say 330 pounds. More. Not an ounce of fat on him. He was trying to get to four. He was trying to get to four, so he was in the 390s. He was like, this is building up to 400 pounds, but shredded and preposterously strong. Yeah. Like farmers. He's always working out when you can't see him. Yeah, you see his back, and he's always wearing clothes, which is very odd. But there's photos of him without the clothes. And it's almost like he's building a masterpiece, And he wants to reveal it once he's done painting. See if you can find some pictures of what he actually looks like.

1:30:42Because occasionally they show his body. He always takes all the stuff from behind. Like that's him. Fucking bro. Look at that. That's fucking insane. He looks young. I don't think he's that old. I think he's like maybe 30 or something. It's nuts. Gigantic dude. 6 '8", 385. What the fuck? Now imagine if he wanted to fight MMA. And they're like, well, sir, you've got to lose 110 pounds. Fuck off. That's crazy. Fuck you. Okay, hold on. Hold on. Think about this. Look at that. You're the heavyweight that they want to put him against. Yes, there's a weight class. Listen, I think this should be a 225 and then should be chaos.

1:31:25225 and then chaos. I agree. And let the freaks in. Let them Iceland dudes in. I mean, some of the most entertaining fights in Pride, right, were the freak fights. Yeah. Here's the thing, though. That guy's going to melt your piss cup. Oh, yeah. 100%. So just like you pride. Just like you pride. If you put that fucking guy in one of them tester machines, it would ding like one of those cartoon things where you fucking hit the mallet and it hits the bell. There would be fireworks going off, streamers coming down. There's a chance that guy's on the natch. Come on. But that's just like pride, you know?

1:32:02Yeah, exactly like pride. God, pride. Everybody was juicing. They just had the enhanced games. I know. But it didn't do that well. Only one world record was broken in the 50-yard. Yeah, really, that was a 50-meter swim. But they were wearing a suit. He's wearing a suit that's illegal. Yeah, because it makes you slippery. Yeah. And it was a guy that had already beaten the world record, like, I don't know, a couple years back. Somebody's beaten him since. It's no one really. It wasn't that successful. And I talked to a friend of mine about it, and he was like, I think, first of all, they're not monitoring everything everyone's doing.

1:32:32They're not optimizing them. If you really want to juice these people up, you can't let them do it themselves. You've got to have a whole program where you put them on this stuff. But also, what are we doing? Did you hear the reason why they're doing it? Why? The whole thing is kind of like Red Bull. You know how Red Bull does all the crazy different stunt stuff and everything? Their whole thing is they are a company that gives out or puts out these monthly things of TRT and all these different things with testosterone stuff. So they did this whole thing as an advertisement basically for people to see that being enhanced is better and that you'll come and now sign up for it.

1:33:14I think it's$399 a month for your whole thing to be able to get$399 a month. The enhanced program. There you go. It's the enhanced program. Thank you, Jamie. When we had them on, Jamie, did they bring this up? No. I don't think they did. Maybe they adopted this later because we had them on about a year before they were going to do the games. And I was like, let's go. Juice them up. Juice everybody up. Yeah. What about enhanced fight games? Very interesting. The Vitor Belfort days. The whole question is this, when you truly look at it. Because I look and say, look, if you open it up to everyone, then it's someone's choice.

1:33:52You're going to hear all that thing. Well, you can do it if you want. You don't have to do it. But it's different when you're lifting a weight or you're swimming in a pool or doing those things. or you're beating on another human being. There's a difference. You're creating damage in the sport of fighting. 100%. Do you want to enhance someone in being able to do that? You're also enhancing your ability to take damage. You can take that into consideration. You're going to get hit with less shots because you're going to have more endurance because you're going to be on EPO. That's always good for you, too.

1:34:25Super good. The strokes that you get on EPO are the best.

1:34:34But I mean like I gotta think there's a way to do all those things if you're monitoring your blood work And you're being very careful where you don't go crazy like the Russian cat. Yeah, you know people That's human nature. Yep. You're right one step take another yep. Yeah, definitely Yeah, and if that guy has skills imagine that guy with oh my god Imagine if you got fade or you know bro. Oh, yeah, you want to keep fighting?

1:35:01I That's only that's only biological. I can make you 32 again. We get you in a hyperbaric chamber every day for two hours. And this is what we're going to do. Testosterone in the morning, testosterone at lunch, testosterone at night and a little growth after. Oh, growth is all day long. You're taking growth from the moment you wake up. We're going to get you up to about two nine. We're going to be a shredded. We're going to peptide you. I think part of the attraction to Fedor, though, is his belly. 100 percent. You know, you lose that. I'm like, I mean, imagine Lorenzo saying, I don't want fat guys to fight and you see Fedor he did everything he could to get Fedor yeah well They did they really did no he did I remember those days there was it was kind of crazy like the He was negotiating with some dangerous characters.

1:35:44Oh, yeah, and Dana was like we got to up our security This is getting just getting heavy with these guys. They wanted a piece of the promotion that was yeah That was the whole yeah everything everyone talks about that stuff look at it wasn't it wasn't Fedor you know Fedor would have fought for anyone and it wasn't the price of what you know he wanted for money it was M1 was associated Vadim Finkelstein was Fedor's manager he had M1 and he wanted a co-promotion with UFC and the UFC said no we can't do that that's the one thing we can't do and that was that was the end all right there which is unfortunate right because we missed out on the greatest matchup of all time between Prime Kane and Prime Fedor Prime Kane and Prime Fedor would have been fucking nuts.

1:36:30Yeah. Nuts. I agree. I mean, absolutely nuts. Yeah. Nobody had a gas tank like Kane. Nobody. I just talked to him yesterday, Kane, and I was just talking to him about it. I said, if there's one fight you could come back for, and he's like, ah, you know, I'm really like, he's not, he's just, he's completely checked out of the fight thing. But I was like, you know. No, he's not checked out of the fight. I mean, he's doing a great job of training guys. To me. He's back doing it. He's not. He's not? No, he's not. Uh-uh. Just talked to him yesterday. I was just talking about the fights last week. He's just like, no, I'm kind of just disconnected.

1:36:59He's just trying to get his life back. Well, understandable. That's the one fight I said. If there was one fight I could pick for you, it'd be Fedor. That'd be the one fight I'd want to see out of him. We missed that. It's funny because everyone talks. I agree with you completely. Everyone talks about the fight that they would have put together would have been Brock against Fedor. And I look and I go, yeah, it's probably not that good of a fight. Yeah, it's like Brock had had such a hard time. Yeah standing up with that guy. Yeah, well The good example like the Brock fight to me that was like kind of the craziest fight was Alistair Oh, but juice Ubereen Ubereen.

1:37:36Yeah, the most that wasn't juice that was horse meat. That was everything That was horse meat. He definitely ate some horse meat. Oh, yeah There was he was also eating pills. No, that guy there's a lot going on, but he was a monster Monster. He was huge. World-class kickboxer. You see him now? Yeah. He's like a vegan now. He doesn't look anything like it. He looks like he did. Yeah. He's back to his pride days. Slim down, looking good. Back to his supermodel days. Good for health. Oh, yeah. By the way, that guy's been KO'd a ton of times. Seems fine. Oh, yeah. Like, he did the commentary during the Usyk fight, the Rico fight, and it was like, the guy is fucking talking great.

1:38:12He's, like, smooth and articulate. It's not, not everyone gets affected the same way. Right. And it is you know there is you there's little factors and you can see the difference there are guys You know that are been boxers with 70 professional fights They do they talk fine everything's good. There's also a gene It's called APOE4 And if you have that like what is it? How does it work if you have it you're protected or if you have it you have the problem So there's one this one gene expression that makes you more likely to get CT. Yeah for whatever reason. Yeah Yeah. What is it? Put that into perplexity and see what it says.

1:38:50There's a gene that you have in your body that. Yeah. Some people have it and some people don't. And if you have whatever it is, whether it's a gene expression, I'm a moron. I'm not the guy to talk about this. But Dr. Rhonda Patrick talked about this. And she was saying essentially that if you have this, here it is. APOE4 appears to increase the risk of severity of chronic traumatic encephalopathy in people with significant repetitive head impacts. but is a modifier of risk, not a cause by itself. So meaning, obviously, if you have it and you're not taking headshots, you're okay. It doesn't do anything.

1:39:21Right. But if you have it. So scroll back up again, please. A large postmortem study of 364 people with RH1-294 with CTE 70 without carrying APOE4 was associated with more advanced CTE stage and higher tau protein burden in the frontal lobe. But mainly in those older than 65. But that's just because they haven't been testing all the MMA fighters or all the boxers. Because if you're just testing regular folks or football players, it's like football players is probably in the country the most people that have had trauma. Absolutely. Because you think about high school kids, even junior high kids.

1:40:00Before that. Yeah. I mean they did a study of I forget how many different people but they found that Everyone it was like nine out of ten had it in every group whether it was high school kids college kids some level of CTE Which is nuts. Yeah, not just NFL not just college high school kids Everything everything that we've learned and we know today comparatively from here. I'm going to Florida for the Association of Ringside Physicians. They have their annual conference. And they put on all these different things. And we put together programs for down fighter things and all this stuff. But we know so much more now.

1:40:40Joe, it used to be I would go and do a presentation for him. And it was one of the first things. When I first did it, I asked him a question. The real simple question was, let me ask you this. If a guy gets hit with a shot, boom, and he's out going down. and he hits the ground and the fighter comes in and hits him with a shot. Is it possible for him to hit him with a shot and actually wake him back up? Every one of them back then, no. That's impossible. All it will do is intensify the effects of the first shot, all this stuff. And I took a DVD. I said, let's watch. What fight did you use as an example?

1:41:17I had a bunch, you know, and it was a matter of it was trying to show him, hey, all these things that we think are just not true okay when we have to we have to branch out and start to figure this stuff out a little bit more because it you know in boxing it's different because boxing establishes time for me to make decisions MMA takes that time away because I have a fighter that is now instead of walking towards or you know trotting towards a neutral corner or something like that they're trotting towards that person to do more damage to them and so you're making that quicker decision and you know we've had too many fights where we have someone that you know they're out going down and then hit the ground and they're and you have to actually wait you know i just had you know one in last week with jason jackson is fighting uh his opponent jeffy creighton and creighton gets hit and he's going down and i'm going in to stop it and i see he starts sitting up and i go i gotta wait and it's like i don't want to wait don't sit up and And he comes back, boom, hits him, goes out, I stop it.

1:42:20But it's like those are the ones that you look at and you go, man, to understand the way the human body, everyone responds differently in certain situations. But we've learned more as far as the human body will do weird things in traumatic situations. And it is the ability to hit someone and to take those synapses that are connected and to separate them. There is no difference in being able to hit them and putting them back. they can get snapped the same way. Isn't that crazy? It's nuts. In the Hermes Franca fight in UFC 47, 46. Jesus Christ, don't go back too far. Yeah, too far. We're in the third round.

1:42:58I catch his leg and he throws a little loopy shot and drops me. I have the leg in my hand and I'm just going, I can see my face headed towards the canvas. My eyes are wide open, but I can't put my hands in front of my face. My face bounces off the canvas. It wakes me up and then I start fishing for legs. Wow. I can see everything. I can hear everything. I just couldn't put my hands in front of my face and my face hits the canvas I wake back up and he starts jumping on me I start trying to fish for legs and trying to get to guard and that's how that goes the first thought to go through his head is I hope I didn't damage my face because I'm so good looking right?

1:43:30Jealous it is a problem this guy's jealous over here but actually you violated the stereotype that good looking guys can't fight there was a little bit of a stereotype that good looking guys when push comes to shove they're going to fall apart because they're too good looking They don't want to get fucked up. I don't think so. Not true. I've seen too many good looking guys. Look at Rico. Look at Rico. Yeah. Verhoeven's a fucking model. Yeah, he's a beautiful man. That guy came to AK and trained with Kane and DC for a couple weeks. That guy's a fucking murderer. Oh, yeah. He's a murderer. And like when we were talking about earlier about the fight and him, his boxing is really good.

1:44:05His cardio, like you guys were talking about, is fantastic. But man, he has no fear of being taken down. He has no fear of any of these guys. Kane and DC didn't care. He would fight them to the death on defending takedowns. They were like, man, DC was the – as soon as they got – they touched gloves, he would just right to the legs. You know, he almost fought in the UFC. Yeah. They offered him Derek Lewis. But then the Usyk fight came up. And it was like, listen, this is$15 million. Oh, yeah. $15 million. You can't say no. And look what happened. I mean, amazing choice because in most people's eyes, he won most of the rounds of that fight.

1:44:40Go back and look at some of the fights. That one right there, it's the most recent. Look at Francis Ngannou against Tyson Fury and look at the scoring on that one. Go back to Conor McGregor versus Mayweather because no matter what you want to say, Conor won the first couple rounds because Mayweather didn't throw any punches. This whole thing about, oh, you're in general ringmanship, bullshit. You're not throwing punches, you're not winning a fight. It's a fight. It's not a dance. It's not how pretty you look. And so you can go back, and I can tell you, I've talked with some of the judges off of the Mayweather-McGrady.

1:45:15They go, I made a mistake. I gave credit where I shouldn't have given credit. It's like, how? Interesting. I think it's easier for the heavier weights, though, to go up to boxing and have a little bit more success than it would be for the smaller guys. Like Ilya Tepori to fight Bud Crawford. Oh, no, no, stop, stop. That's crazy. You know what I mean? That's my point. The level of boxing talent there with Bud, it's not even close. it's not even close Bud's one of the greatest to ever do it absolutely absolutely and Ilya maybe could be if he just went into boxing yeah I mean the fucking guy's hands are insane Bud Crawford could go to MMA that dude can wrestle right okay so I would love I mean obviously it's not gonna happen just cause of the money you can make boxing is not the same and also he's another guy that's like I'm done I don't have to do this anymore oh dude I did all I wanted to do multiple division weight champion undefeated bye Yeah, made a ton of money.

1:46:09See ya. Yeah beat Canelo and boxed the brakes off of him. Boxed the ears off of him, exactly. Crazy! When he was pity-pap punching him and then hitting him with big shots like that's what you do to someone when you're playing. He had Canelo so absolutely frustrated during that fight, but I remember watching, I was in New York, Gleason's gym. Terence Crawford is there and he is boxing all these guys and just playing. just absolutely you know come on next one boomer and touch touch he never tried to hurt any of them never tried to throw a big punch you just look and you go how good is this guy yeah he is that you know and he's that guy one of the best switch hitters to ever do it oh yeah in my opinion it's like him and haggler yeah they're like right there together it's wild greatest switch hitters yep does he get box you southpaws and all of a sudden he's orthodox you know oh no and dude The funny part about him is you see it in MMA.

1:47:05Guys will switch when they take a step and throw a punch. They'll switch to a different. He does the same thing. And he does it and then takes a lateral movement that had Canelo like, where the hell is he? And he's going, hi, bap. And you go, oh, my God, he's so goddamn good. He hit Canelo with a straight left. And then Canelo went to counter. And he had the hand still out there. And he turned it into a left hook. And I was like, good Lord. It was so pretty. You could see Canelo's like, here I come back, bang. He gets dinged with the left hook. I'm like, that is crazy speed and precision and technique.

1:47:39I've said this before. I've sparred with Robert the Ghost Guerrero because he lived in Gilroy. And we would train together all the time. He would use me for the – I'd be in fight shape, ready for my UFC fight. Just judge his son's fight. Yeah. Literally, I'd show up. I was the first four rounds of a 12-round session. He knew a new training partner every four rounds. This guy would just piece me up. He would just toy with me. And it was embarrassing. I'm like, I'm in the best shape of my life. But by round four, I was exhausted. And he was barely touching me. Just touch, touch, touch, move. Slip out the side.

1:48:09Slip out the side. So good. And he wasn't at Mayweather's level. He's fought Mayweather, but he wasn't that level of slickness. But he made it look like it when I was in there with him. It's all in comparison. So good. I mean, there's guys that look. Look at Jack Della Maddalena when he fought Carlos Protas. You're like, Jack Della Maddalena is one of the scariest strikers in the sport. And then he fights Protas. You're like, oh, level. Oh, there is a difference. Levels. There's levels. That's what you try to do. And everyone has this idea. We talk about it all the time. And I go, you don't understand the difference this much makes in the difference of how you compare in a fight with somebody.

1:48:45Levels. Oh, my God. Levels. Especially when you get a guy like Protes that had so many high-level Muay Thai fights. That's the big difference. These guys that with only striking, they develop an understanding of positions and technique that's just not available if you're training the other stuff too. And so then they get to this, like Pereira, they get to this super high level at this one thing, and then they incorporate the other stuff. But that other level, you're not going to catch them. You're not going to catch Prates when it comes to Muay Thai. That step-in fucking tomahawk elbow that he does, holy shit, dude.

1:49:18And he's playing, and he smokes Marlboros, and he drinks. He smokes marbles in the back. Oh, it's crazy. He's going with the guy the fight and he's smoking blunt What was the guy that fought Delahoya that would come out? Oh Can cigarette? Oh, yeah Yeah, but I mean mayorga was never at the level of protest Prata is like is so fucking slick man Some of the shit that he was doing to JDM like JDM is a fucking killer And he had no he was drowning. He was drowning and it was It's also like what is going on with his limbs? Why are they so big? It's like crazy like he says he's six foot one the fuck out of here, bro I want to I want to measure your your height and your length because I think there's some bullshit Yeah, he's just all like I think he did this for his reach His reach is nuts when you see him in there He's like all arms and legs and the technique is so beautiful It's so beautiful the setups when he when you think he's punching he's kicking the fuck out of your calf And he's like slowly breaking you down slowly breaking and then the knee that fucking knee that comes out like a jab His knee is nuts man.

1:50:26You go back to his fight with Gary You know and you look at you know Gary was doing great that last round Yeah, you know he's came back on it and you look and you go if this was five rounds would be a real problem Hello, but it also shows you how fucking good. Oh absolutely now That's the whole point that shows how good he is because he has gone against guys that are a real problem as far as stylistically. His fight against MVP. Ian Gary fought as smart as you could fight and did a wonderful job in showing, hey, I'm multifaceted. I'm not just this one style fighter. With Prataz, when he knocked out Leon Edwards, I was like, oh.

1:51:07I knew he was really elite, but I'm like, Leon's so technical and he's so slick. And Prataz's not going to try to take him down. I'm like, this is going to be a very interesting fight. But it wasn't. It was Kyle's protest show. He put on a fucking show. The relaxation, the comfortness of being out there. Also, too, Leon understanding like I was the champion, I'm not the champion. It's hard to get back there. The mindset has changed a lot. It's been hard for Leon ever since when he lost that title fight against Muhammad. And you look at everything that's happened to him since. It's just, you know, confidence is everything.

1:51:40Yeah, well, the Sean Brady fight might have been even more brutal than that because Sean just mauled him. Mauled him. When Sean gets on top of people, like what he did to Joaquin Buckley was bananas. No, it wasn't. I look at that, and this is why. Sean Brady won against Craig Jones. Okay, now it was an advantage as far as winning, but he grappled against the real Craig Jones and showed that he can stay with him. Right, but you know in that match, poor Joaquin is not at that level. Craig was not allowed to use leg locks. You know that, right? That's crazy. That's a big, that's like fighting, Ernesto Hoost, and you only can kick above the waist.

1:52:17You know what I'm saying? Well, that's just for your Rick Rufus. That's a smart idea. Yeah. Yeah. But you know what I'm saying? It's like Craig Jones, you've got to give him his full game. You can't have him thinking, oh, I can't do this. Yeah, that's true. He's taking away 50 % of his attacks. But Sean Brady on the ground is elite. Really good. Elite. But it was just the ability to hold him down was just shocking. I mean, it was like, God. And then when he was mounting him, it just, like he was doing drills. Yeah, it wasn't it was just like staying calm and just bang bang bang It was like he was doing conditioning drills on a heavy bag like it was just sitting on a heavy bag Pounding on the bag time.

1:52:51He was bro. It's nuts. I said this maybe I caught some flack for it a little bit But I said like look I think the Ian Gary fight and the practice fight for Islam both those fights I'm not saying they're easy fights because they're not But you put you put someone like a Sean Brady against Islam and that becomes a little more difficult problem. A little bit more difficult. But that's matchups. Big difference. Styles make matchups. Styles make matchups. When you look at someone's style comparatively, one person is easy for someone, or they're very difficult for someone else. If you're going to put someone against Islam as far as it's going to be on the ground with him and give him difficult times, it would be Brady.

1:53:28There's not a big enough sample size for me with Michael Morales. I think Michael Morales could be a big threat on the feet, the wrestling. People are going to say, well, he beat Sean Brady, so obviously. Stopped him. Yeah, yeah. But the size, I think, of Michael Morales will give Islam some problems as well. And Michael Morales can fucking wrestle. Yeah. Right? It's not like he's just a boxer. He's an Ecuadorian national champ, I think, is what he was. And then, you know, he's obviously got power. Athletic. Super athletic. Islam doesn't do the normal wrestling. Nope. His takedowns are different.

1:53:53Yep. A lot of foot sweeps, a lot of judo, a lot of difference in the way he does things. And world championship experience. Yes. And also the years of training with Khabib. Yeah. Years. What he does so well is he does it off a transition. As soon as you punch you guys anywhere inside the clinch, he's already hitting the foot sweep into the inside trip. Can't get it? Okay, I'll drop him down on a single or a double. You know who I'm excited about at 170 is Amosov. Oh, dude. That Ukrainian cat. Oh, yeah. We know. Of course you know. Look, he's good. He is absolutely the real deal. Yeah. He is good everywhere.

1:54:30Everywhere. and his wrestling and his grappling ability, his submission ability, is at the top of the field. It's right there with Sean Brady. Am I lying? No, no, it is. There's one guy out there, though, and he was just talking about him. He's the one guy that he lost to who's not signed by the UFC, and that's Jason Jackson. He's the one guy to beat him. I'd love to see Jason Jackson in the UFC. Where's Jason now? He just fought an MVP. Just fought an MVP. Won in like 10 seconds. 22 seconds. 22 seconds. I had a hard night. I had 22 seconds and 17. It was very difficult. I was exhausted. But he's the only one, he's the only guy to beat Jaroslav Famosov.

1:55:06He is. Wow. He's fantastic on the feet. He has a wrestling background, but he chooses to stand. He's got like 30 jobs, a coconut stand, a car washing stand. He's got all kinds of business. He works. He works all the time. Dude, he's a working man. He's a working man. But he's very talented. I love watching that guy fight. I think him, you add him against a Prathis or against an Ian Gary, these guys would duke it out. It would be a great fight. It's interesting when there's guys that are at that level that aren't known. Yeah. And he's a former champion. Jason's been there. You've got to figure he was in the UFC as far as the ultimate fighter when they did that whole Black Zillions versus ATT.

1:55:42Oh, that's right. He was part of that. That's right. And he's just always been on the cusp of being brought back in. You're looking and you go, he's got all the talent in the world, and he's tough as hell. He'll fight. He is tough. Who is that cat, that heavyweight, that just knocked out Hennon Ferrer? Oh, that's Sergei Bilistino. And he's one of Fedor's boys, right? He is now. That dude. Yeah. That dude's scary. Bilistini, that dude is yoked. Yoked and moves fast. He's fast and he's got power. But then you also got Nemkov. Nemkov's at heavyweight now. Yeah, and Vadim Nemkov. He's another guy that's at the top of the heap that's not in the UFC.

1:56:23Vadim Nemkov is good. And, man, he is. He's extremely athletic. He's not a big heavyweight. He's got great lateral movement. He's really good with his hands. He's a 240. Beautiful kicks. Yeah, he was a 205. And he can wrestle. He's 240 now. And he can wrestle. He can do everything. He chooses to stand, but he'll mix up the wrestling and kind of get you guessing. And he's another Fedor guy. He's another Fedor guy, yeah. Yeah. That's another one. Training under Khabib. I mean, if you're a Russian guy, training under Fedor, good Lord. What a crazy opportunity. Yeah, but you got to live in Stario School.

1:56:54Do you really? That's where they live? That's where they live, man. Oh, boy. Oh, yeah. No parties there. Nope. Nope. You better have snow tires, too. Oh, yes, you better. Thick clothing. Thick clothing, snow tires, and hate comfort. Oh, my God. You're sleeping on a futon, bitch. Yeah, there's a lot of talented guys that will come out of other promotions, but I'd love to see Jason Jackson in there mixing it up with those guys. Because stylistically, the matchups are there. And the Protis and Gary. and those are fun fights. And putting Jaroslav, when the UFC finally signed him, I said, thank God.

1:57:28Thank God. Yeah, me too. He deserves to be there, and they need that kind of fight. And look, he's gone in and proven. Dude, his fight against Joel Alvarez, Joel Alvarez is a good fighter. I mean, he made him look absolutely like the guy didn't know hardly anything. Yeah, I watched it yesterday. I watched it again yesterday. I mean, the last takedown, you know, when he airboarded him. Oh, my God. And you look at the ease that he did it with. That's the thing. Spectacular technique. Oh, my God. And the tightness of his grappling is insane. And his training partner is Johnny Ebelin. Ah. Same guy that's training partner now for Sean Strickland.

1:58:10Yeah. And those guys go after each other daily. And Johnny will tell you, he's the one that gives him the most fits inside the gym. The one that I spar with the most, the one that just gives me all the fits on the grappling, the wrestling, all those things. Go back to his fights, too, in the past when he fought Ed Ruth. He hip-tossed Ed Ruth. Oh, my God. Took Ed Ruth down. Three-time national champ out of Penn State. I mean, he was having success against him. It was a very close fight, you know, and he ended up winning the fight. But it was one of those fights where you're like, damn, you walked away going, this guy can wrestle, this guy can stand.

1:58:40He's chasing submissions. He's trying to get finishes. I mean, he had takedowns against Logan Storley, a six-time state champ out of South Dakota. Four-time All-American in Minnesota. And a four-time American out of Minnesota. Just phenomenal. Phenomenal wrestler, but he's able to have exchanges with these guys, chasing anacondas, darces, knee bars, everything. Extremely talented. There's a lot of guys that I would love to see to kind of mix in. Because every time, because when you look at the history of the sport, you got like Strikeforce when it came into the UFC, those were the best fights.

1:59:09And you start pulling, plucking. I'm not saying that a lot of these guys need to come in right now, but if you can pluck one or two guys for each division, it starts sprucing this whole thing up. Because for a little bit before the Paramount deal happened, you know, because I cover every fight every week, right? And we talk about it on the pod. It just simply put, everyone's like, man, these fights are trash. They're garbage. This and that. I'm like, guys are being complainers. The cards are great. You guys are just, they're used to the next level of like the Connors and the Alex's. The stars.

1:59:37Yeah. On every card. But when it comes to just technique and just fighting ability, there's some amazing fights out there. Amazing fights. When you add in someone, like when Michael Chandler came in, there was a lot of hype around it. When Patricio came in and Aaron Pico, when they came in, there's a lot of hype around it. It kind of puts a little shot in the arm into the weight class and gets everyone amped up. The fighters that are there at the UFC, they're like, this guy ain't fucking beating me. I'm not letting this bum from this other promotion beat me. And then the fighters that are coming in are like, no, I'm here to shoot.

2:00:05I'm here to prove that I deserve to be here. So it kind of gets the fans amped up. It gets the promotion amped up and the divisions kind of gets a little bit of a spark. So I'd love to see that happen a little bit more Absolutely, absolutely. You know the pico thing is really interesting. It's like his last fight He looks so tight against pitbull. He looks so good Everything looks so smooth like his boxing was flowing his transitions to grappling is flowing fought intelligently Like that's the pico that we needed to see. Yeah, but you take a look at his first fight against Lerone and And I always say that was a Pico that was pressing.

2:00:44He was pressing that fight and taking chances. A little too obvious. Absolutely. That he was coming. And you look and you go, this is the difference between that first fight in the UFC and wanting to do so well and wanting to prove how good you are and stuff. And then finally relaxing and just, hey, let the fight come to me. Let me show what I can do. and taking those moments when you get them, that's what he did in his fight against Patricio. And look, Patricio's good. And Pico, Pico could be so good. He just has to relax. He's still young. Oh, yeah, he is. He's had a bunch of pretty bad chaos.

2:01:18Yes, he has. The Borax one. And that's a problem. Yeah. Borax, you had the one against frickin' Corrales. Yeah. He hurt Corrales and then he got starched. He's had a couple of them. And both those fights he was winning. And that's the thing is he was winning. He was beating Boric and then he was beating Corrales. The fight said he lost. He was hyper-aggressive, and that's part of the problem. But it's also because he's so fucking good. But he's got the best left hook to the body since Paul Daly. Oh, it's so smooth. Oh, my God, it's beautiful. I mean, just his left hook, period. It's like such a whip.

2:01:49The technique is so smooth. It's so nice. So I got to ask you about the Joe Schilling fight because it was such a weird stoppage where Joe just decided, that's it, I'm quitting. So his opponent headbutts him. Yeah. And then Mike Beltran, who's a great referee, takes a point away? He did take a point. And then puts him right back in the same position. Okay, stop. That's not exactly what happened. It's not? Well, it is what happened. Yes, you're right. But when you have a situation like that and you have the headbutt, Mike Beltran calls a stop, calls timeout, gets them up off of their feet and tries to put Joe on.

2:02:25Joe's pissed. And I understand why Joe's pissed. He's saying, hey, first off, Joe's 42 years of age. He doesn't come there to be fouled. He's going to fight. Okay. And the whole thing is look where his hands are. They're overhooked right now. The other guy's got his hands on the ground. Right. So you know you don't want your hands on the ground. So Joe's in a decent part to at least if he wants to defend himself. So when he gets up, he's pissed off and everything. And then Beltran takes a point from the opponent and asks Joe, do you want to stand up or do you want it back on the ground? And Joe picked, I want to be back on the ground.

2:03:09Why are you allowed to make a decision? You're allowed to make the decision because you were the one that was fouled. In a normal situation. He said, I want to be back on the ground? He said, I want to be back on the ground. That seems crazy. I agree with you. It's not what you would expect out of Joe Schilling. World-class, world-champion kickball. Exactly. Yeah. And so with that, you got to, you know, he's the one that's fouling. If the person on top is the one fouling, normally we're going to say they're going to lose their position. But there are many grapplers and people that have a hard time getting that person down.

2:03:41And so we went back to saying, all right, we're going to give the person who was fouled the opportunity to make a decision. Normally we're going to put it back on the feet. But if you want to put it back on the ground, I'll put it back there. but you're going to be in the same position as you were when the foul occurred. Right. And that's what Mike Beltran went to do. And so he starts to put him back. You have Abena is the opponent, and he starts to put his hands on Joe's biceps. If you watch when they start to put him back on the ground. Joe tries to do the overhook. You saw the overhook, and Abena starts to put his hand on the biceps.

2:04:19He did it on the left bicep, right? Yeah. And so it's not a matter of, you know, Beltran wasn't there to start the fight yet. He's got to put him in that position. But Joe, once that bicep thing started happening, he got mad and he said, I'm done. Stop the fight. You can't make somebody fight. If someone says, I want out of the fight, they're out of the fight. So Beltran was in a position where he says he wants out of the fight. He started, he fouled me, and that's what he's saying. And now he feels like he's not going to be put back in that same position. But he hadn't been, it's not like Beltran started it.

2:04:53He's trying to put him back in the same position when Joe's kind of just losing his steam and getting pissed off. And so I look and say, look, if you're going to be that pissed off, it's a good thing you're not fighting because you don't fight smart and you're going to end up getting hurt. But he's the one that decided that. So he clearly has two overhooks at the end of the fight. At this time of the foul, he's got an overhook both sides. Yeah. Well, sort of. The right one's not totally overhooked. But he's holding the back of the triceps. So you're going to say, OK. So that's where he's at. Look where the opponent's hands are at.

2:05:28Opponent's hands are under his shoulders. Yeah. Okay, so that's where it should be started. But he never gave Beltran the actual ability and time to say, no, no, put your hand here. And you can see Beltran starts to, you know, as Abena starts to try to put his hands on the biceps, Beltran's starting to put him underneath. So it's not Beltran. Why Joe would want to go back to the ground? You know, that's the real question. And, you know, all I know is at 42 years of age, you know, you're looking and saying, you know, Joe Schilling can fight. You know, Joe Schilling, he was a gangster, no doubt about it.

2:06:03And he, at this point, is, you know, is he looking to, you know, become a champion? No, he's not looking to be a champion. So I'm taking the fight for what reason? For money. And so I think he just looked at it and based upon, well, this is not what I expected. I expected a fair fight. I expected us to, you know, fight like professionals. And this dipshit is now headbutting me. He just got pissed and he lost his cool with it. And when he wasn't being put back right away into that same position where he thought the guy is now trying to up again, take another advantage, it just sent him off the end and he said, I'm done.

2:06:37Right. He just got too emotional. He got too emotional with it. That's a bummer. Yeah, it is because Joe's a great guy. When you fought at the level he's fought at, you expect a certain level of professionalism. Yep. And when you have these young guys that come in, it feels a little disrespectful. Like, you knew where you were at. Why are you trying to game the system right now? Also, you just headbutted him. Yeah. Which is crazy. Oh, and there's a lot of people saying, well, you know, I don't think it really hit him. It hit him in the jaw. Okay, it didn't hit him head to head. And you're not allowed to use your head as a striking instrument.

2:07:03It's a foul. And it's pretty clear that he was trying to do that. Yes. It wasn't as simple as like positioning his head. No. Try to get a better. Look, we say you can use your head as a steering instrument, as a third arm. You can press with it. You can do a lot of uncomfortable things with it. You cannot pick it up and bring it back to strike. And it was clear that that's what he was doing. That's exactly what he did. I think it's just very awkward for a lot of people that see Joe Schilling in his past fights He's been through it all and then for him to get super frustrated this way It was a lot of people question I'm like I don't question at all because you expect like I said a certain level of professionals I'm like we know that we're both going out there to fight and knock each other out.

2:07:38Why do you got to cheat? Yeah, there's there's a certain there's a certain set of rules that we're doing this under right and now you're taking those rules and just tossing To the side like you know, this doesn't mean something. No, it means something to me I'm 42 years of age and I don't expect someone to be fouling me just on purpose. And look, the whole, no matter what, that was, right now we use intent. Okay, that was intentional. He did something. I call it malicious. It's a malicious attack on him. You're maliciously trying to inflict an injury on someone through a foul. Yeah. Yeah, no doubt.

2:08:13Did you watch the MVP fights? Yes. What was your takeaway on that? The overall card as well as the Gina and, you know, and Rhonda fight. I mean, look, when you're coming in as your first time putting on a promotion, there's no way it's all going to be smooth. It's not possible. You know, it's just there's no way. You're also you're not dealing with the same caliber of names other than Gina and Rhonda and Francis. You know, the Mike Perry, Nate Diaz fight was when was the last time Nate fought MMA? It's been a while. Probably six years. Been a while. Yeah, probably somewhere around there. Which is kind of crazy, right?

2:08:52And Mike has been fighting bare knuckle and fucking people up for quite a while. Dude. He's an animal, dude. Yeah. He's found his sport, though. 2022. So four years ago. Four years ago, he beat Tony Ferguson. But he's found his way. This is stylistically the best thing he could do for his career is fight bare knuckle, fight boxing. This is the best thing for him. And Mike is like uniquely talented at bare knuckle. Oh, like uniquely. Look, I'm being honest. I used him as my demonstrator for Andy Foster is the executive officer in California. And he didn't like bare knuckle. I wrote the rules for bare knuckle long ago.

2:09:34Dave Feldman came to me and said, hey, you know, I need rules written for me. I'm trying to legalize this. Someone that I knew hooked him up with me. And I said, look, I'll write your rules. And I gave him two prices. And I said, I'm not doing it for free. It's too much of a pain in the ass. So here's my two prices. My one price is you don't say who wrote them and you just use them. And the other price is you say who wrote them. And it was because I knew I was going to get in trouble for doing this. And, you know, oh, what does John McCarthy think he's doing? Now he's writing rules for that. Did you write the rules for slap fights?

2:10:06No, I don't like slap fights. I hate those. You can't defend yourself. That's it. That's the only fucking rule. It's the dumbest thing ever. Crazy. Have you seen the other? Will they just run at each other? Oh, no. It's even worse. They're like, hold my beer. Oh, my God. You think slap fighting's retarded? Hold my beer. We're just going to run at each other. That's what it's called. Run it. Right? Those things are crazy. It's crazy. But the whole thing with the Mike Perry thing is trying to get athletic commissions to start to understand. Because they're all into this thing. Joe, it's like you take a look at MMA.

2:10:40I'm allowed to hit you with a shin to the dome like you talked about. I'm allowed to take my knee and hit it to your dome. I'm allowed to take my elbow and smash you, even when your head's against the ground. I'm allowed to do all these things. But my bare fist is the big problem. It's kind of funny. Oh, it's ridiculous. But it's perception, and perception is a real problem because people believe what they're saying. Oh, it's horrible. So Andy Foster was one of the ones that he didn't like it. And I said, Andy, I tried saying, go through those whole things with the shin, the knee, the elbow. And he goes, yeah, I know.

2:11:16He says, I just don't like it. I said, Andy, I need you to look at it this way then. I go, there are people out there that are made for boxing. Floyd Mayweather, Terrence Crawford, Canelo Alvarez, they're made to be a boxer. They have all this technical skill. You know what? They're just unbelievable. I said, there's these guys, same thing in MMA. There's the George St. Pierre's. you know you got the alexander volkanovsky's you got the all these people you know that are you know islam makachev was the last one i used i said they're made for mma i go mike perry was an mma fighter i said he's not made for mma he's a tough guy i go but bare knuckle he was made for i said and this is a guy who can make a living fighting for bare knuckle he can pay his bills he can support his family fighting bare knuckle.

2:12:08And become a star. I said, and possibly get sponsors and everything that are going to make it so he can live the rest of his life. I said, and you're going to say that you want to take that away because of a bare fist? I go, it just doesn't make sense to me. He looks at me and goes, you're right. The best thing that could have happened to him was him leaving. Him being released from the UFC. Oh yeah, absolutely. You got an old timey ring. Andy Foster's calling you that's funny put him on speakerphone I don't want to put Andy under a spot like that and Andy's done such a great job he's great he does things that people don't realize he's now got a license plate that's out for retired fighters to try to get them a retirement he's got a retirement for boxers already that was set he's been doing things to try to get a retirement fund for Josh Thompson who fought 15 times in California 19.

2:13:05I looked it up. Is it 19? Okay. I'm wrong. 19 times in California, he can get an actual retirement. Now, it's not going to be a retirement that he gets paid every month. They'll give him a large sum of money that he can then go. He can go to a trade school. He can buy a house. He can do these things as a down payment. Andy just put in a thing. It just got turned down because of a staffer. It was Assembly Bill 2130 in California. And that assembly bill was no money out of the taxpayers' money, zero taxpayer money. It's about sponsorship. A dumbass like me as a referee has to wear a sponsor's thing on my shirt.

2:13:45That will then, 75 % of it went to retired fighters. 25 % of it went to training for upcoming and in-service officials, both judges and referees. What's the negative? There is no negative. But you get these people in politics that sit there and go, oh, I don't like this. You want to know what their negative was? This is in California, by the way. Yeah, this is in California. California is the best state for decisions. But their whole thing was - As we both live in Texas now. Think about this. We all. We all left there. But their whole thing was, well, that would allow the sponsor to say that they're basically part of California and they're running, they're doing things for California.

2:14:32It's like, they are doing things for California. They're helping the people that fucking put on fucking entertaining fights and things for people here. It's ridiculous. There was nothing good. There's some great people in California. There are. Sure. You know, and there's some great assembly people. I, you know, I just did a whole thing for, you know, Heath Flora, who's an assemblyman there and he's putting up a bill about you being able to, if you protect somebody other than yourself and from somebody that's trying to do something he's trying to make it to where they can't civilly go after you.

2:15:03Makes sense. You're doing the right thing. But no there's people fighting against it. Why? It's just politics. Politics suck. They suck in California. My dad always used to say think about the word politics. Poly meaning many, ticks blood sucking little insects.

2:15:25it's a bummer it's a bummer it's crazy and then did you did you see that Coker's returning to MMA I did give me give me your take I like Scott I like that a lot but good luck you only have 60 million dollars yeah when I saw it was only 60 million dollars I was like that sounds like a lot of money until you think about putting on an MMA promotion it's hard and then getting television production and then you know paying fighters and then securing venues and then having staff full-time for like Maybe you know you got Tony Hawk with you. Maybe yeah, I mean me look I'm rooting for him I think he did great when he was running glory as well as when he was running Bellator back in the day He's a really nice guy.

2:16:08Yeah, I think it's great for everybody if there's more competition I think this whole MVP thing in the Netflix thing is great It stirred a bunch of cash into the organization. A bunch of people got more money than they would have ever gotten anywhere else. Awesome. More options, the better. Yeah, I think. Just, you know, I hope he can do it. Yeah. I think a lot of people do. Because I think as they do grow promotions, right, the fighters get more experience on a high-level competition. You get to fight fighters from all around the world. I'm just excited for more promotions to be involved. Yeah, more promotions is good.

2:16:43More options is good. More money is what we really want. The fighters need to get more money. It's always going to be the UFC here. Yeah. You know, and ultimately it just comes down like you need more people to build up to get to that level. Name a good XFL game that you watched. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's true. Nothing wrong. I'm sure there's great athletes. But it's the whole thing. And, you know, you're part of it. You know, what you did with the UFC and how you made it exciting for people when you were calling fights. You know, it's a people now, a lot of them, they don't even know the fighters that are on the card, but they'll they'll turn it on when it says UFC because they believe in the product.

2:17:19Yeah. Right. And that's that's what you're supposed to do as the company and for marketing. But the one problem I do think they have right now is they're unable to market people like they did when, you know, you and I were early in it and stuff. they now are in a position every week and so it's tough to market the guys who are not well known. Fight nights a lot of times the casuals have no idea there's even a fight night. And some of them are fucking insane. Oh some of the best cards. We talk about all the time it's like the card itself rates if you're looking at it honestly it rates a 5. On paper.

2:17:55It rates a 5.5. On paper. And then you'll watch it and it's a 9.5. Yeah. Yeah, it's because they're working to get to the top. Yeah, those are the 100 ones. They've got something to prove. Yeah, and for hardcore fans, it's like giving them constant food. Or drugs. Right. Giving them that dopamine. It is the thing when you look at it, it's the hardcore fan that the UFC has. But the casual one's the one that puts it over. Yep. And it's hard to get people to understand. You need to get the casuals, the ones that don't watch fights all the time. And that's the one thing I'll give Ronda Rousey. I thought she did an amazing job of talking.

2:18:31100%. And putting things out there the way she did. She got people's attention. She did what was her job. Yeah, and 17 million people were watching that. That's huge. That's huge. It's all good for everybody. It's good for the sport. It's great for the sport. It's like that's what we need. We need more competition, more eyeballs on it. And unfortunately for the people that are casuals, it has to be a name. You know it has like this Conor McGregor fight in July is gonna be fucking bananas It's gonna be bananas I mean people are gonna go crazy for the return of Conor McGregor because he's a giant personality, but don't expect the same How could he just can't he hasn't fought in five years, right?

2:19:09Exactly, but that's the problem might be more because they're gonna I think it is a little over five. It's almost six. I think it might be six at the time of the fight It's it might be six. I think it's five right now Are we expecting to see a Conor that looked like Nate this last fight? Or are we expecting to see a better Conor than someone that looked like Nate? Because Nate did not look good. No, Mike Perry did. Mike Perry looked like a fucking murderer. You know what I mean? Mike Perry is a murderer. He's a murderer. Such a savage. You take a look at that. When you're taking an older fighter, which Nate is now.

2:19:4321. Five fucking years ago, July. So it literally will be six years. Oh, no, it'll be five years. Five years. Five years. When you're taking a younger fighter and putting them against the old dog, it normally doesn't end well for the old dog. Well, the thing is about Max Holloway is like Max Holloway isn't that much younger than Conor. No, he's not. But the thing is Max has been in constant high-level competition the entire time. Won the BMF fight, beat Dustin, like constant high-level competition. That's right. It's a different thing. And I honestly believe him at 155 is the best thing for him.

2:20:17Absolutely. But he's not 155 in this fight. He's 170. Yeah, honestly, he might be better. No weight cutting at all. Just no weight cut, just kind of walk around. And also, knowing this is such a high-profile fight, he's going to— I mean, Max is always in insane shape. But particularly in this fight, he's going to be in fucking insane shape. And his last fight, he took almost no damage. He got taken down, controlled, back taken, and there was not a lot of damage taken in that fight. No, just frustration. Yeah, frustration. Bro, Charles looked like a motherfucker in that fight, didn't he? He's so good.

2:20:46Dude. He's so good. Good everywhere, too. And on the ground, he's just so goddamn dangerous, which just makes you think, how good is Islam? Because Islam just smushed him. I can tell you, he's really good.

2:20:59I mean, it's kind of crazy, though, when you think about how strong Charles' grappling is, and how Islam just... Yeah. Dude, he called it. He called it. He said, he goes, Islam is going to submit Charles. And he goes, and he's going to submit him with a head and arm choke. I said Kimura or head and arm choke. I said either one. I go shut up. Yeah, just shut up. He's not gonna do that. I said he would do it before three rounds He did it, you know obviously very quick, but it was his grappling is just otherworldly And he secures that Darce by grabbing the forearm. I've seen a lot of guys try that now A lot of guys are going to that now cuz you don't have to get as deep You just go through and it's right at the top and then cover cover the chest with your cover the head with your chest and just suck it in You see people doing things all you know, we always talk about you know back a long time ago, figure four in the body.

2:21:48We go, don't do that. They step the foot inside. It cranks you. It's bad. How about that crazy guillotine that A.J. McKee does? Oh, the McKee-a-teen. Yeah. How about that fucking thing? How come no one's doing that? That's the whole thing. Okay, look at what Greg. Body styles. When he did that, I was like, wait. Yeah, his body style. He's so long. He's able to reach him. Especially at 145. He's huge for 145. He's a big boy. But Grant Dawson just did the genie choke. Okay. How many times have you seen that done in competition? But I've seen it in the grappling room all the time. Right. Guys doing it, right?

2:22:23Right. And all of a sudden people are like, never seen that. It's like, dude, it's been around forever. Well, it's like when we talked about Edson Barboza knocking out Terry Edom. How did he get to that fight before that was the first wheel kick KO? Yeah. Well, we've seen a ton of them since then. But that was the first one? Like, that doesn't even make sense. When Anderson Silva front kicked Vitor in the face, we were like, wait, hold on. You could do that? I remember Eddie and I having a conversation about kicks, and he goes, what do you think about front kicks to the face? I'm like, eh, doesn't really land that often.

2:22:52Incorrect. And then Machida does it to Randy, and then Machida does it to Vitor. Oh, my God. So Vitor's been on the receiving end twice on that kick. Yeah, man. I mean, there's been a bunch of them now. Now you see a lot of front kicks to the face because it's such an unexpected thing, especially if a guy's, you know, you're getting hit to the body with it a bunch, and you're getting used to doing this, And then it hits you right on the chin. It's just such an unexpected technique. Every time we think that we're not going to see something new, something new pops up. But the crazy thing about front kicks is it's literally the first thing you ever get taught.

2:23:22When you learn how to kick, that's the first thing you ever get taught. The idea of there being a new use for the first thing you ever learn is kind of crazy. A little snap kick. Yeah. That's nuts. I mean, karate, that's day one. That's it. Just like that. Exactly. And that's what it looks like, too. Like, all goofy and shit. The fact that that's the kick that... And then calf kicks, of course. Like, that's number one. You know? It's interesting because Cub Swanson's actually saying that he was the first guy to throw calf kicks. He was saying, like, no, no, no. Go back to, like, 2011. I was landing calf kicks.

2:23:58I forget who he fought. They said he fucked somebody up with a calf kick. Well, then I'll tell you before that, though. Benson was the one. Benson was one of the early ones, for sure. George Mosvidal. Really? Yes. He was doing it in Strikeforce in 2007, 2008. Really? Around that time. If you look at ATT as a team, they do calf kicks all the time. That is a huge weapon that they use. You go back and watch Masvidal when he fought KJ Nunes and how he just destroyed KJ Nunes. And he was kept kicking the calf to the head kick, to the body shots, to the boxing. He just pieced him up. People forgot how good Masvidal was.

2:24:34When he knocked out Eve Edwards for the head kick. People really sleep on Masvidal. Masvidal was slick. He was so good. When he knocked out Cowboy, people were like, oh. When he knocked out Darren Till. Darren Till. How about that one? That one was bananas. That step-in hook. Yeah, because that was a weight class above what he normally fought. Yep, yep. He was one of those sleeper guys. But he was better when he went up, just like most guys are. But he never got the credit he deserved. Everywhere he went, whether it was Strikeforce into the UFC, he never got credit until he started doing things that people didn't think he could do.

2:25:05Right. You know, when he knocked out, like you said, Darren Till, the running across the cage with Ben Askren, like those kind of things. He had no love up until those moments. That guy was always nasty. Always, yeah. Dude, all the way back to his street fighting days with Kimbo. Right. He had some good ones. I wanted to ask you this because I look at these guys now. What is it with the younger fighters that can't get past the old dogs? Like Dustin doesn't have to retire. Justin Gaethje doesn't have to retire. They're still ranked at number two and number three. What are you seeing on your side that makes you think, like, these young guys, these old guys, they're not going softly into the night.

2:25:39They're not letting these guys come by. Why can't the younger guys get past them? Patty not being able to get past Justin. Patty was not at Justin's level with stand-up. No. Justin's level was, like, quite a bit. First of all, Justin is an elite grappler. So, like, what is Patty going to do? Is he going to take him down? That's not picnic. And standing up with Justin. Justin has some of the nastiest fucking leg kicks in the sport. I wish he'd use him more. I know, right? Remember when he used to throw him from the clinch? Yeah. He's in tight with you, and he's kicking down on your legs. And you're like, how are you moving your hips like that?

2:26:13He was an animal. He still is an animal. It's like he hasn't faded. Justin's not faded. That Fazeev fight? Fazeev is an elite, world-class striker, and he beat him upstanding. Twice. Yeah, he hasn't faded. Justin hasn't faded. He's just 36 or whatever he is, 37. I think he's losing, but you've got to have a passion for the sport. And I think Dana says, look, if you're not 100 % in, don't do this. And he's right. And I think there comes that point where it just gets to that, you know what, there's other things out in the world that I want to start doing and things. Do you think Justin's at that spot right now?

2:26:53I'm not too sure he's at that spot, but I think he's thought about it based upon some of the performances and the tight fights he's had. I think the fight with Max Holloway made him kind of think about it. That was a tough fight for him all the way through. All the way through. All the way through. I think he lives a comfortable life. He does. I think he lives a good life. He enjoys playing golf with the boys. Oh, yeah. You know, he's another guy. I know he's like, oh, I've spent money. I need to make more money and this and that. But he also, to me, every time I take a look and when people talk about him, I think that he's done really well for himself.

2:27:25I think he's doing well for himself. I don't think he's in any danger where he's losing the passion of it. Well, I did the Naked Gun or whatever, the second edition of the Naked Gun with Liam Neeson. And we had Kamaru Uzman and Justin Gaethje were two of the fighters in it, right? And he was hysterical throughout the whole thing, right? And he's such a button pusher with Kamaru. Kamaru would say, okay, let's go easy. And all of a sudden, Justin's doing something crazy. And Kamaru's like, what the hell is wrong with you? he loves life he enjoys life and I think that you know there comes a point where he always had that attitude you know when he was undefeated he goes someone's going to knock me out he's honest about things and I love that about him that he doesn't sit there he doesn't play the you know oh well we'll see and so he's honest and he tells you you know what this may be my last one and he's thought about it and if he's thought about it it's telling you it's a thought process is there how far will it go if he has a great performance against Ilya I think he'll stick around.

2:28:25Maybe. Unfortunately, I kind of think I'd rather see him go away. I know that's saying, because I love watching him. I would love to see him win and go away. That would be nuts. That's the whole point. That's what I said. That would be nuts. That's how he wins the title at the fucking White House. And that says that's it. I've hit my bucket list. The White House thing is odd. I don't like it. I don't like the idea of fighting outside at all. There's problems with it. I've done it too many times. June and it's DC and we looked it up the last time like last year same day was a hundred degrees yeah Oh, yeah, yeah hot as fun.

2:29:00You add the lights. Oh, yeah Yeah, the light you add the lights yeah it tracks bugs. How about dehydration? Oh, yeah Yeah, the bugs are a big one go back to go back to UFC. Yeah with all those lights Yeah, go back to UFC 3 see how hot it was How are they gonna fucking do anything about the bugs because I know that Dana was talking about that recently They were talking about maybe using fans Is that enough? No, it's not enough. You got bug strips everywhere? What are you going to do? Like, how are you going to stop the bugs? There's a lot of bugs. Spray, that's pretty much all you can do. Pesticide the shit out of the fucking line.

2:29:27That's good. That's good for the fighters. That'll help with their breathing. I just don't think that you should compete in a world championship fight in a non-controlled environment. I think it should be inside an air-conditioned arena. It should be a controlled environment. just like every, like you don't ask someone to do any of that. You wouldn't ask them to play a world championship basketball game outside in the sun. That'd be crazy. Yeah. Right? You have to, you play in a fucking air conditioned arena and that's how it should be. Yeah. I agree with you. But I understand the whole thing.

2:29:58I get it too. It's special. Listen. But it's going to be a pain in the butt. Build a fucking roof. Yeah. Build a roof. Like you've got all the money in the world, right? You're doing this. You want to do this for fucking America? I don't know. It's not my money. It's 4 ,000 seats. You build a 4 ,000 seat arena. How big is that? Get a fucking Barn Dominium. Put it in there. You know, like we did UFCs, the troops. We did them in the troops. We did them in hangars. Yeah, we did. But they want that White House in the background. Put it in the background on TV. Who gives a fuck? It's just like when world-class fighters are competing, I don't think they should have to compete outside.

2:30:33Look at it. They're already putting it in there. Imagine if someone loses a fight because it's too hot out. Imagine if that becomes a factor. Imagine the dehydrated fighters. Like the dehydrated fighters that are now being forced 24 hours later to fight in 100 degree heat outside. In 100 degree heat. Under the spotlights. Go back. I swear to God. UFC 3 was in North Carolina. And it was the hottest thing I've ever been in in my life. It was outside? UFC 3? No, it wasn't. It was inside with no air conditioning really inside. It was a 3 ,500 seat arena. They put 6 ,000 people into it. It was under the lights.

2:31:10Had to be 150 degrees. Okay. You saw everyone falling out. Hoist had the problem after chemo and stuff. Ken Shamrock fell out. They all pulled out and stuff. It was, Joe, it was the hottest thing I've ever been in in my life. It was brutal. You have to ask yourself as a fighter, though, is the spectacle worth my career? Right. Is it worth me going out there and fighting in these circumstances that I'm not used to? Well, we did one outside at Abu Dhabi. That was when BJ Penn and Frank Edgar fought. And then Damien Maia. Anderson Silva against Damien Maia. And that one, bro, there were bugs flying around.

2:31:48It looked like birds. They were so big. I was like, that's a bug? What kind of bug is that? Can that kill me? This is crazy. You're in the fucking desert, man. There's some giant-ass bug flying by. You can hear it. Yeah, bro. Make sure your microphone's not picking it up. Sounds like a helicopter coming by. You're outside. It's hot. You're in the desert. This is crazy. Why are we fighting outside? No, because I think I had read somewhere where Habib had said no I prefer Islam not take a fight there at the White House There's too many distractions. You got all the media you got them that whole week Yes, plus it's outside.

2:32:19These are all things that your fighters not used to doing Why would I jeopardize his win streak his second title? Why would I just like all of that? Yes, let's see everything so so we can fight the White House. I know it seems great Yeah, I was I fought there but at the end of the day You got to look at it. I worked so hard to get here. I don't want to lose it over this one thing I just feel like you could put a roof over it I mean, you got all this money. You're making a ballroom? Make a little... Do it just on a regular basis. I mean, are they finishing the ballroom? Are we going to get that thing done?

2:32:49I don't know. Make your own Apex Center. Boom. That's true. Make a fucking Barndominium. How hard is that? You know what I'm saying? Hard. Trust me, I just finished one. Did you? Oh, my God. Yeah, but you're one guy. Exactly. Get a fucking team of the United States civil engineers. Get the fucking army to do it. Cheers, man. So you're going to be at that one? Yeah, I'm going to be there. Allegedly. Allegedly? If there's not a bomb that goes off between now and then. Who fucking knows? This world is crazy. I love what you did with the Ibogaine with it, man. Thank you. Way to go. What was the process on that?

2:33:21How long did that take? I don't care what the process was. Way to go. Thank you. The process was me texting Trump. Literally. I'm not bullshitting. That was a long process. I texted him on Friday. He showed up to the UFC on Saturday, shook my hand, and said, it's done. You're kidding. Oh, no. I'm not kidding at all. No. I texted him. He texted me back, are you looking for FDA approval? Sounds good to me. I tell him how effective it is at helping all these veterans with PTSD, people with traumatic brain injuries, all these different things. I mean, we have a problem with fentanyl in this country.

2:33:51This is one of the best things that we've ever demonstrated. Gets people off, yep. I'm like, listen, there's so many people that risk their life for this country. They come back and there's no help, and this is the only thing that they've found helping. Yeah. And it's illegal, and that doesn't make any sense. You shouldn't have to go to Mexico to get treatment for something that you got because you were defending your country. It's nuts. And so he right away was like, look, this makes sense to me. Like he cut through all the bullshit. Common sense. And there was a bunch of people that were trying to get in the way of it.

2:34:20Of course. A bunch of people. I mean, inside the White House people that were trying to get. And he's like, fuck you. Fuck you. Do it. And he like was telling them, just do it. Make it happen. And he made it happen. And that's amazing for everybody. Yeah, no. It was amazing that, you know what, you stepped up because you are going to be helping so many people. I don't think people don't have an idea of how bad it is and what that can do for them. So I think way to God. I was like, see, I always say you always talk about you're a dummy. I'm a dummy. I always tell people, he's super intelligent.

2:34:54And you are because you got that done. It just proves it. Well, I never asked him for anything else. I've never asked him for anything. Never. Maybe a signing pin or something. He gave me those. I didn't even ask. I've got a bunch of stuff. I got a pen. I got a bunch of things. But I was like, if there's anything that I would really ask him for that is, it's bipartisan supported. Like Democrats support it. Republicans support it. 85 % of the country supports it. Yeah. Especially when it comes to things like Ibogaine, which is not even remotely recreational. No. I haven't done it. Makes people sick.

2:35:25Everybody's done it. It's horrible. You get diarrhea. But it's 24 hours of misery. But when it's over, you're a new person. Good. And look, Rick Perry, God bless him, because if it wasn't for him getting behind it, that changed everybody's opinion. Here you have this Republican former governor of Texas who's talking about it and then talking about his own personal experiences doing it. So him and Brian Hubbard, I mean, they really went all out. And when I had them on my podcast, not once but twice to talk about this and the state of it where it's being passed in Texas, they got$100 million from Ken Paxton.

2:35:57so which is yeah no was it ken paxton no no who who is it corn uh uh dan patrick sorry dan patrick so dan patrick who approved this hundred million dollars for this ibogaine initiative like these people all deserve praise this is like there's a lot of people that for the longest time they thought of psychedelics as being something that losers do and then they realize like no there's a lot of people that need help and this could help everybody could be a good side with i was just i I was just in San Diego last Monday and then I was in L.A. on Tuesday. And it's unrecognizable. It's crazy. It's sad.

2:36:33And when you take a look at San Diego, it's always been beautiful, beaches in the background. But it was worse than L.A. I was in the Burbank area and actually it was a lot nicer than San Diego was. And the gaslight district was just disgusting. It's crazy. What is it? Gas lamp? Gas lamp. Yeah. I couldn't believe it. I walked into a couple restaurants. You got homeless people stumbling in, trying to order, trying to take food off of people's plates while they're there. I'm just like, what is going on? No law enforcement. That's what's going on. It's the first time that I've went back. And I've been back in the last three years.

2:37:04I've been back two or three times a year easily. It's the first time I went back. I was like, man, this is not what it used to be. This is not. It just felt like for the first time I didn't feel safe there. God. And it's weird to me. And how do you get that? How do you bring it back? oh that's simple you bring it back by doing the right things common sense things taking it you know i do not okay hold on i'm sitting i'm sitting i'm sitting chad bianco does it do you think steve hilton does it like who who do you get to turn the state around you know it's your girl katie porter she'll get it done she'll scold everybody into compliance but i'm sitting i'm sitting outside i'm sitting outside having dinner last night and i'm watching a bunch of homeless guys talking to themselves and this is the problem.

2:37:53I was a police officer for 23 years. Okay. I've been out there with them and you have people that, you know, they have serious problems, you know, and, and I understand, you know, the ACLU and stuff that they, they, oh, it's not right to put them. No, it's better for them. And it's better for the, the people that are out on the street, just trying to live their lives to have that person be put into a place where they can receive some medication, receive some help and try to get them back than it is to let these people just rot on the street and self-destruct. And I'm watching it and it's like, how is that so hard to figure out that it's better to do something with them than it is to just let them be?

2:38:36It's crazy. Yeah, it's we've lost our way, you know, as a society. And I think a great reflection of that is how many homeless people you have camped out on your streets. Those are the places where they've lost their way the most. That's it. And this is, unfortunately, a lot of these Democrats run cities. I owned a couple of gyms in San Jose, and it was tent city. And along the highway, like leading up to my, along the road that led up to my gym, all those things. But you would see they were stealing solar panels from people's houses, and they would put them up on the side wall so they could charge their cell phones.

2:39:06Like, they're smart enough to do these things, right? It's not as if, like, they're not. They're just drug addicts. That's a lot of it. That's it. A lot of it is just drug addicts. But in areas like San Jose. That can help with that. 100%. But things like in San Jose or San Francisco, they're giving them needles. They're giving them drugs. They're giving them reasons. They're giving them phones. It's like, why are we doing this? Well, the other problem is the amount of money that's involved in the homeless industry now. That's right. When you find out that California spent $24 billion and homelessness only got worse.

2:39:32And what have they done? Nothing. Not only that, but the fucking, they tried to do an audit on it and the governor vetoed it. It's like, no, nothing to see. Nothing to see. Why waste time on that? It's only$24 billion, guys. Well, how much did they spend on that bridge that had the for the mountain lions? Oh, my God. What are we doing? Hey, hey, hey, that's OK. The mountain lions need a fucking bitch. They need hugs. They need hugs. It's they need they need to wake up. And the problem is that they're in this bizarre mindset, this liberal leftist mindset that's just not tenable. It's not you can't defend it.

2:40:10It's not. That's because it's crazy. Yeah. I always look at this. People talk about left and right. And most people are, I'm in the center. I think a lot of people are. Yeah, most of us are. It's not where. But you get labeled as being on the right if you're not all the way to the left. If you're not all crazy, you're to the far right. Yeah, it's nuts. It's absolutely just psycho. A nutty seesaw. Oh, my God. Well, I just saw something that, I can't remember who it was, but they continue to talk about, you know, let's keep taxing the billionaires, keep taxing the billionaires. And do what? With the money?

2:40:43And that's the point, though. That's the thing. So why don't we just not tax the people that make under$200 ,000? That's actually something Jeff Bezos brought up. He said the bottom 50%, the people that make the least amount of money, don't tax them at all. He goes, because they're not contributing that much to the tax base anyway, and they would contribute more to the economy if they had more money to spend. Absolutely. It would help everybody. That's right. I think he's right. I always said$150 ,000 down, you don't pay taxes. That's a great number. I also thought about it too is if you were to take if you got rid of the you know because they're talking about this housing shortage and all the other things.

2:41:19Why don't we get rid of the low interest rates you know because I have like a couple of interest rates on some houses that I have that are at 2 percent. How do you get rid of those. Well why don't you just raise my capital gains tax so I don't got to my wife and I or whatever we can pay like less on that versus that 500 ,000 threshold. Why don't you make it a million. So then I'll cash out on those and just take my money out. and then I'll start putting it back into the economy again. Yeah, but you're talking like a sensible businessman. You can't be doing that in California. They'll put you in jail.

2:41:48They'll put you in Twitter jail. You can do the death tax that he did in New York. I mean, look at what Mom Donnie's trying to do. Oh, that's nuts. Oh, my God. People are just going to bail out of that city. It's crazy. It's these fucking people that think taxing the rich is the solution. And do what with the money? If you were doing a great job with the money and everything was accounted for and there was no fraud and waste, I'd be like, well, maybe you just need more money. But that's clearly not the case. That's not it. You've got so much fraud and you're ignoring it. And then this Nick Shirley kid, when he exposes it, everybody's like, yes, you should be praising him.

2:42:21Give that kid an award. Give him a fucking award. Here, I want journalist of the year and he's not a journalist. How much fraud do you think is in this country? Billions and billions and billions. I mean, Elon had said when he first came in, he goes, hey, I think it's close to a trillion dollars, maybe a little bit over. He said it was so bad that he didn't want to talk about it too much. He was worried they'd kill him. He really said that. Don't on it. That's wild. Joe, he's not lying. He ain't stupid. No, he's not. No, he's not. He's anything but. No, he's not stupid. He's anything but. But, I mean, to think, though, and think how much in California they've discovered, let's just say what,$200 billion?

2:42:58At least. You know, somewhere around there. That's on the low end. New York's probably, and Chicago is. But they've got to do it in all states. You can't just do it in the ones where it's LA and in Chicago and New York. We've got to do it in all states It's gotta be in Texas everywhere. There's everywhere. There's fraud and these people are profiting off of the fraud They were funneling it right back into the parties and it's it's dirty business Well, you didn't really think that that shovel the government pays for was really fucking nine hundred dollars I mean a lot of that is they get a budget and they have to pay they have to spend all the money every bit of it Yeah Otherwise, they won't get the same budget next year, which is wild to me because the schools the schools operate the same way If the teachers don't spend a certain amount of money on these things and they don't get the same budget for next year No, why don't we reward the people that actually save the money?

2:43:43Yeah, it doesn't make any sense It makes that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard what is wrong with you? I want to know when when you come into my class your your refereeing class. Yeah, when is it when you have it July 17th to the 19th? He's gone Oh, I'm not even going to be in the country. Oh, okay. But when are you doing one? Where are you doing them? Usually I do them in Vegas at like Stream Couture or something like that because I need the gym to put people in cages with fighters. If I can, I definitely will. I would love to see it. I'd love to see it and be able to talk about it. Is there a location we could do one here?

2:44:17Because that way I don't have – That way – Look, at any time, you have my number. Text me if you have a question during the fights. I'm not going to do anything with your thumbs. It's the text. It's like when you say the waiter. I get them all the time. Just wrap it up. I get them all the time. It's nice when you know exactly what the referee can do, where they're going to go. And when you're looking at Mark Goddard or Herb Dean, when you know, if you go to the club, you'll know exactly, hey, this is what he can do, and this is why he'll do it. I'll definitely ask you. I promise. At the very least, I'll ask you next time when this shit comes up.

2:44:54No problem. I'll have you on speed dial. There you go. Maybe I'll put you on speakerphone at the UFC. Hey, everybody, Big John's right here. Don't do that. It's the one thing that I'm always watching, and you guys are like, I don't know. I don't know. I'm like, this is the answer. Well, I'll reach out. I promise. Love you. Thank you, brother. Love you, too. Love both of you guys. This was fun. Let's do it again. Oh, absolutely. There's always going to be fights to talk about. Frickin' A. I live up the street, so let me know anytime. All right. Fuck yeah. All right. Bye. See you later. Bye, everybody.

2:45:35We'll be right back.