JRE MMA Show #181 with Justin Gaethje & Trevor Wittman

28:00I allowed those things to affect me. Right. And to, you know, affect my fighting decisions rather than just being myself. And so that was a huge mistake. another mistake was you know winning two or three times in a row and just kind of becoming complacent with how serious what we do is and how dangerous this game is and how much luck and chance are a factor every single night and so you know I wasn't doing the extra credit I wasn't sitting in the sauna at home you know and I don't know I don't know why it's just and And I made that mistake probably into the Eddie Alvarez, Dustin Poirier fights, lost.

28:47And then I won three or four in a row. And then I completely went back to the same mindset of I'm the best in the world. No one can beat me. And I paid for it. And those two mistakes were huge. Very, very big learning lessons. And then the Charles Oliver fight, you know, I was like I wanted it so bad. And then I made the moment so much bigger than it actually was. because it's just 25 minutes in time and all I can control is being perfect, my preparation for it, but then ultimately being there for 25 minutes and being perfect. And yeah, those are the mistakes that I made. I had to learn. I had to make those mistakes.

29:23I would not change anything about my career. I think the farther back into my career you go, the more special this moment is. And, you know, I think in time, again, this is going to age like my career is something special. the way that I did it, the way that I lost, the way that I stayed on track, the way that I, you know, threatened retirement if I wasn't going to get a title shot, the way I called my shots along the way, and the discipline I had. I mean, it's second to none. I've watched this sport my whole life. Since 1992, my dad showed me. I remember as a four-year-old seeing it. I don't have a lot of, you know, great memories.

30:04I remember my childhood, but it's not like you have specifics. But I remember seeing it for my first time in my dad's bedroom. We were sitting there watching it together, and I was enthralled. I was like, this is amazing. I love this shit. Can you picture that? Him with like a baby bottle, just squeezing it. And I was like, I fucking love this. I love it. And then I watched it, and then I was a diehard fan. I've been a diehard fan ever since then. And especially in 2001 when it came along, I was probably in 7th or 8th grade, 6th or 7th grade. and just fell in love with it. And then me and Carl going into college, we'd go and sit above the Wild Wings for six, seven, eight hours, spend$5, those poor service people.

30:44It's just amazing that you've been able to keep this ferocious mentality for so long because I remember when you first entered into the UFC, the Michael Johnson fight, I was so pumped for it because I was like, get ready because this is going to be fucking wild because I had been a fan of yours when we were fighting. What was it, World Series of Fighting? and then that Michael Johnson fight was everything that I thought it would be. Fucking crazy. Just a wild ass fight. Crazy coming out party. Dude, I giggled so many times in that fight. Dude, when you went against the cage and you were like this, you look back and you were like, oh, I'm looking for the shot.

31:16You're like blocking off the thing. Then you come back with the right hook and then you let it back in again and then you hit it with the right hook again off the cage. Dude, there's so many giggle sessions in there. I wasn't nervous because just again, that's the way he fights and I'm like, no one's going to forget this fight. Michael Johnson was swinging. Swinging. I caught him with that left hand a few times. Well, that's the same left hand he knocked out Dustin with. His left hand is so fast. He's fast. It is so fast. And Michael has power. Yeah, he does. He is fast. Yeah, dude. And he was trying to win.

31:44I mean, he was going all out. You guys just emptied out in that fight. It was fantastic. And I was like, there it is. The three-rounder to get off the backflip took three rounds. He got up there, fell off, got up there, fell off. I was like, you can do it. I'm out there motivating him. I always get so scared for your knees when you do that. I'm like, please don't hurt your knees after you won the title. I'm 100%, baby. I ain't missing yet. We're training for Khabib. We're over at high altitude. He's doing backflips off the cage. And I was like, stop. Do this after the fight. Yeah, he's like, hey, hey.

32:18No more backflips. I was like, today? Today's the day? Today's the day I become a bitch? Like, today's the day, huh? I'll never forget that moment. He's like, you know what? I turned my head. I was like, stop. Go ahead. That is kind of true, right? When you get something and all of a sudden you're special, then you start protecting it and then you won't be special anymore. This is what makes sense. That's why I told him. I was like, today's the day of. He's fucking crazy. I never want him to stop being fucking crazy. Everything about him in life, when you play golf with him, he's the highlight.

32:48He does shit that you'll never fucking see. It's like everything you do is the highlight. His life is like his fighting. He's fucking wild. So your mentality, you've never had to work on. I mean, obviously, you've learned lessons along the way, but you've never had to like sit down and work on this mindset. It's always been something you inherently possessed. Yeah. Yeah, I think. It's crazy. I think people just complicate things so much. Like when you can truly understand that there is things you can't control, but it's not everything. You can only control what's inside of you. You know, you can only control how you perceive things.

33:26how you react to things. The work you put in. Obviously the preparation. Yeah. But it's, I mean, there's so much. You know, and I guess I always knew that something was coming because no matter how far off the road, you know, like, I've made mistakes. You know, I've done, I was never, thank God I was never an alcoholic and never, But I was, I could say I was probably a drug addict, you know, one time in my life. What drugs? I don't know. I have never told my parents about this. You don't have to. All of them. All of them. I want, so, but it's, and I know this is going to sound stupid, but so I went to school for human services.

34:12I wanted to help people. A big part of that is helping people come off drugs. and I lost many, over a handful of friends, really close friends from drugs. Where I come from, we're not far from Mexico and we had the best. We had the best shit coming right across the border before I ever got caught up. And it was, my life, you know, where I'm from is very boring. And so like you chase, again, we have it so good in this country. We're always trying to create chaos in order to feel something. And I guess that's what I was probably doing. And in college is when I really, you know, if I'm going to help people come off of drugs, then how can I ever even try to understand if I don't know what they're chasing?

35:00And so that was a part of it. Also, a part was felt good, you know. And so, you know, once I did certain things, I knew what people were chasing. but then I always knew that something was bigger for me and better for me and I had something to do and so that was always it was never a crutch for me I was always like that was awesome you know I'm not doing it again what is it in your head that where you always knew that you had something bigger uh well probably my faith I mean I've been my parents the best thing they ever did for me was make me go to church every single Sunday and create a relationship with God through the word of Jesus Christ.

35:48And just trying to live up to those expectations, I knew not that I was going to be a champion or anything. I just knew that I couldn't take the easy way out. You know, when you're on drugs or when you're living a lifestyle like that, then nobody expects anything from you nobody wants anything from you and that's the easy way to live you know those uh right there's no pressure no expectations no expectations no pressure and i mean it really is i can understand how you can let that overcome the the passion to live you know and um i don't know i just think the passion to live because of my faith has never outweighed my desire to feel good.

36:39I want to talk about the shift that you made in your career from being the most exciting guy in the world, wanting to be the most exciting guy in the world, being happy with performing to the best of your ability, whether you win or lose, to wanting to get the belt. What started that decision? it's weird because i don't remember a time or a day where i made a change other than i'm not going to get hit you know in the dustin poirier fight in the eddie alvarez fight i i absolutely almost broke them and it was no different than any of my other fights nobody just ever same with elia you know like nobody had ever got past it nobody had ever been able to withstand the ferocity of my actions for two or three rounds and then those guys did and i was like what happened you know and ultimately i put myself in a position and i got hit with a shot that um took me out of the fight and so after those fights i was like i have to not take these shots.

37:52And that was ultimately all I can say that I changed mentally is I'm going to I don't want to get hit. I used to never care about getting hit because it's like it doesn't hurt. Nothing hurts in there. You don't feel nothing. It's never hurt. And so that was really just the mindset. I just need to not let them get me in a predicament where I'm not able to, where they have to stop the fight. This episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe. One thing you probably don't think about when you're planning the perfect summer getaway is protecting your home. But if disaster strikes, you want to be prepared.

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40:31This offer is for new customers only. So the shift. But he probably from the outside tour. Yeah, it's definitely there was a shift. And it wasn't just like an instant shift. It was the two losses in a row with Eddie and Poirier where he's like, I'm winning these fights and I need to be able to get to the distance. And I was like, all right, we got to become a spot fighter because you just drown people. And what's happening is you're making mistakes. We threw a low kick against Poirier and he got caught because he faced back lazy with his shoulders above his hips. So I was like, all right, let's be sharp.

41:04Let's fight in spots. Then he goes on a three-fight win streak where he's finding the right spots and putting people out from Vic to Barbosa into Cowboy Cerrone. And that's where he's like, and then I sat down with him, and I was like, do you want to be a champion? And I was like, this is how you have to fight to be a champion is be smart. And he never said he didn't want to be the most excited fighter. He would tell me after fights, he's like, I'm not even trying to fight excited, but look at me. and it's like fucking like it's so amazing like it's in them it's just how do we how do we get you to sprint 50 yards pull back for 100 yards and jog and then sprint for 50 yards and like be able to know your your your your red line don't don't cross over that red line don't hold red line well that that is again the experience that you've had in wars it was so critical yeah he could do it but yeah i don't want to make mistakes and it is i think it's crazy i think um again the fact that they said that he had outstruck me in the first round 39 to 32 or something You landed some hard jabs.

42:03Yeah, yours were devastating. He might have touched and skipped out. But I'm talking about the perception. It looks like I'm getting hit. It looks like it's a lot. But, I mean, I don't have special skin. I am able to see punches. And roll with them. And roll with punches. If you watch my fights frame by frame, I'm not getting hit for the most part. You're moving with the punches. Yeah, yeah. It's be like water. Like I'm constantly, you know, and intuitively making these calculations. That's the scoring that when you see that, I don't know who's counting that, but that's like amateur boxing. Amateur boxing, if the white glove touches you in the face, even if it's not a clean blow, that's how you judge.

42:48Yes. And that's where, Jess, I think where you look at it from a point system, you can't just look at the screen. And that's why, you know, judges can't look at a screen and go, oh, this guy landed more. This is who won. And you had the damaging blows. I think everybody knows that. I get it. I see the way you roll a shot. I see the way that you fade off and allow the shot not to go through your skull and deflect it. It still gets touched to you, so it's considered that they landed that shot. But the damage is like what you do to people by the way that you hit through, that you drive through people.

43:20It's so different. Like Justin hits. Unlike any—he still—I still think to this day we've got to ask the UFC. But they did a test on him to see who has the hardest bones in the UFC. He had the hardest bones. Dude, he kicks me and I'm just like, dude. I'm so glad. I feel so bad for Luke Cadeo. He don't let me kick him anymore. God, dude. Luke Cadeo just takes... Let me tell you something about Luke. He has his pad on. He has his pad on. I kick him and his nuts swell up. Dude, I get blue balls, bro. And so I can't kick him anymore. There's a nerve on the inside of your leg. I talked to a doctor about it because I'm like, bro.

43:47He kicks people and they bruise on the inside of their leg. And it's because the shock threw, but there's a nerve on the inside of the leg. I'd go home and I'd tell my wife. I'm like, babe, I got fucking blue balls. And she's like, from who? And I'm like, Justin, she looks at me like, the fuck you got blue balls from Justin for? One of the things you were doing early in your career that I always thought was so wild was you were leg kicking people from a collar tie. Like, you were leg kicking. And I was like, oh, my goodness. I'm like, how come no one's doing that? Like, you were one of the only guys that I saw that was doing that that was from the clinch was leg kicking.

44:17You've got some fucking flexible hips, man. because the way you're able to do that from like right in tight like this and not just throw the leg out. You're whipping into it. Yeah, he pulls them to their lead leg, so he's making a base on that knee. And then it's just like you've got a stump in the ground and you're just trying to bend that tree. He's very good at that. Let me tell you something about Luke because I got into the octagon right after you won, and Luke and I looked at each other. He was like, ah! He was so happy. He was so happy. He's like, Joe was so pumped. He hugged me so hard.

44:49He was so happy. He's the best. It was amazing because seeing all those videos and knowing he's in camp with you all the time and knowing how much he loves you, watching the happiness that he had when you won was fucking incredible. No, Luke is one of my really, really good friends. Pukes every time before a fight. Every time. Before Trevor was in my corner, Luke cornered me. He used to go to Arizona with me. I had no coaches. I would just do it in between wrestling seasons. And, yeah, he would go down there with me and just wrap my hands and he would just be there. Wow. He's amazing. One of the best human beings on earth dude Yeah I love that man Hey did you tell him about the Sunday So the Sunday before the fight So there was one time I think it was in the cowboy fight Where you were pummeling with Ben And he'd finish with a low kick on Ben every time And I'm like stop kicking your coach And he looks at me and he's like Trevor He used to drag me back on the mats He used to fuck me up Give me this opportunity to beat his ass So we go golfing Sunday we go golfing Sunday before the fight.

45:49We get there Saturday. We go golfing Sunday. It's a Sunday. We never work out on Sundays. Trevor, not Trevor, Luke and Ben got fucking pickled. They each had like three very, very, very stiff Bloody Marys. Luke bought like 12 beers. Because we got there and they're like, hey, everything's on the president. And he's like, fuck yeah, I've never heard that before. Everything's on the president. I'm going to drink. And so like whole 10 or 11. Trevor's like, let's fuck with them. Let's tell them that we're going to work out later. We're going to work out, but I'm telling them they're going to be the workout.

46:23I didn't know we were working out. I had no fucking... We're definitely working out. I thought he was fucking with me. We're out there golfing. It's hot as shit. I'm sweating my ass off. I had no idea we were working out that day. He's like, let's fuck with them. Let's tell them that we're going to work out. I was like, all right, cool. I told him I was going to text him and give the workout because I'll lay out the workout for everybody. I told Luke he was going to go three rounds of sparring, full-on sparring, and then Ben's got to go 40 minutes straight. No breaks, just grappling. Not wrestling, just grappling.

46:49And they're fucked up. Dude, and I told Justin, I was like, all right, let's fuck with him, see how he is. And dude, instantly, I didn't text him. We just started talking about it. So we're on the way home, driving home. And dude, Ben is like, dude, he's like, he's like, I'll just take you down. And he's like, I asked him, how many times are you going to take him down? As many as I want. As many times I want. Dude, he's like, 40 minutes, let's go 60 minutes. So they went 20. Dude, you got what, seven submissions on your coach. He drug him back on the mat. It was so funny because I was like dude you got to drag it back out the mask because I got to witness this It's funny because I got a video I went so we get home.

47:20I go I go down take a nap for like two hours and they just stay drinking My YouTube guy filmed everything and they're just talking so much shit. They're gonna fuck me up Luke was good though. Luke was like he was trying to stay out of it. Luke's been through it, mate Luke's like you're really gonna say that? Yeah, Luke's like hey, I ain't saying any of this. Not me, it's him. But they're making a plan how they're gonna team up on me and so it's funny then he got the video there and I'm beating Ben's ass. No actually I went with Luke first and I was fucking him up. And Luke's punching Ben because Ben won't jump in.

47:52Ben's like what the fuck Ben? What the fuck Ben? Now's the time. And he's asking for help asking for help. I beat his ass and I did it to Ben too. It looks fun. Great coaches. Our whole team is just everybody so dialed in. Yeah that whole week is one of my every time we go that whole week is one of my favorite experiences. You were using the sauna in between workouts as well. And before. And so we were. Nothing. That shit sucked. I say it was perfect. You say it was perfect. It was not. It was detrimental to our performances. Yes. Yeah. The humidity was there. I didn't realize it because obviously it's not, you know, it's not something I can worry about right now.

48:26But after round one, I just remember thinking, oh, fuck. I am so tired right now. How is this possible? And the amount of fluid I lost. Thank God it wasn't hot. I probably lost like 15 pounds. Because it was in the 70s. Dude. Yeah, 70s with the cool breeze. You know, when you go out there, what you feel is the cool breeze. But in the fight, man, it was different. Yeah, I hated the fact that it was going to happen, but I'm glad it did. Again, I would not change. Again, I think. How could you change? It affects me. It affects him. Again, I grew up in the country. He's a city boy. There's no way he's not a city boy.

49:00I don't know him personally, but there's no way he's not a city boy. you know and so as a country country boy from the desert in arizona like i was hoping that it would be hot as fuck hot as fuck yeah like when he sat down on the stool i was like oh god these outside fights kill me yeah you know he was dude he was shaking dude he was like trembling i was like holy shit well it is crazy to ask people to defend a world title in a completely alien environment that you never have fights in we've had how many fights outside we've The Abu Dhabi fight in, like, what was that, 2000 and fucking nine or something like that?

49:36No, they did. What was the setting? I wasn't there. When Adesanya did his famous walkout in, like, it was covered, but it seemed like the environment was outside. Poirier against Khabib. So, Khabib, yeah. In Abu Dhabi. Well, we did one in Abu Dhabi when BJ. The big arena. Lost to Frankie Edgar. That was outside. In Abu Dhabi. And that was when Anderson Silva fought Damian Maia. Is that with that Ferrari building? The Ferrari building was there, but I don't know if it was in the same place. Did they have a fight in the Ferrari building? I think they did, but I wasn't there for that one. I only went to one of the Abu Dhabi fights.

50:18Yeah, it wasn't that long ago. I would say within the last seven years. Remember the dude in Morocco said after the first round he was done, he was just trying to survive? He said it was so hot, remember? Yeah, I mean, that's what I remember. It being over there and then, you know, once you realize the climate over there and the humidity, it's like, it doesn't fucking matter. Do you remember Bodog? Remember Bodog fights? Bodog fights, yeah. They had a fight outside in the sun. Yeah. On the beach. Caesar Palace in Vegas. Remember Caesar Palace? The boxing. We got to fight there. Vernal Phillips against Kasimuma.

50:51Yeah, that's right. They used to always do it outside. World Series of fighting around the NASCAR event. Yeah, that was crazy. Duran versus Hearns. I know. Duran versus Hearns was outside. They were great, yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's right. At least Vegas is dry. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Totally. Arizona, Vegas, Colorado. Yeah, humidity was what I was training for with him, was heat stroke. Like, dealing with it where you can't breathe, it's heavy air. So were you putting water on the rocks in the sauna as well? Oh, absolutely. And so what was the— And we trained in a hotter gym. I'd turn the temperature up in the gyms just so he's getting used to dealing with a little bit more heat stroke.

51:25We would spike my heart rate, and then I would go in the sauna 15 minutes, and then I would come out and do 8 to 10 rounds. It was great. I'm so glad we did it. Very smart. Very smart. Because that environment, I mean, it's so completely different. Ultimately, I think the best way to fight is obviously the way you usually fight. Yeah, controlled. Controlled environment. That's how it should be. It was cool, though, Joe. You know why? It was so cool. So we went and did a rehearsal, and I'm like, why are we rehearsing at walkthrough? Like, this ain't a freaking wedding. Like, just tell us where to go.

51:56The camera guys are always like, all right, you're Mark. Here's five, four, three. So why are we doing this? And then we go there and we get stuck in this locker room for two hours. Hour, hour and a half. Because of rain. And thank God that happened because then I started to go, oh. Because it's all unexpected. And how Iliad said, hey, I'm a visualizer. I can't visualize this arena. And I visualize a lot too. So I was like, I felt the exact same thing when he said that. and that's when I knew hey these are going to be some huge unknowns and I had told him that night because the rain was coming like it was crazy how the storm split around because it was all bright red I was like this is thunderstorms they were talking about pushing the fight to 10.30pm we had planned on fighting at like 2 in the morning I started staying up till like 3am after the rehearsal I was like it could be 3am when we fight I'm going to just start staying up but that's what was cool like the walkout like having the soldiers like just walking through the soldiers there was that we weren't able to take any of this in joe uh and i can't really speak for him i know where his mindset i couldn't uh from a coach's standpoint i was nervous as fuck because you don't know there's no pattern i could take on right now and kind of put myself and breathe to it it was very unique and at the end i couldn't even really smile was just like dude i'm just like blown away now i can kind of just look around slowly and just try to take in everything because it was very very hard to to go through that scenario with the pressure of us fighting on on this stage at the white house we're the americans we're a six to one underdog that gets to you that that you know when you hear that over and over and over and over it's you know you can't hear your phone dude you you got one you caught a marlin but uh having uh uh left just that scenario was so unique and then once it was over then it was like now I get to enjoy the White House and just be in here in this this this great environment.

53:49Yeah look at that scene. There you can see it. What is he reading there? Is that the Declaration of Independence? Yeah. So we weren't in the room with him right there. We through the the rehearsal yeah. How crazy is that? He's in the Oval Office stepping out. And then all the soldiers walking through so cool like having the two guys next to him. And a lot of people complained about this happening at the White House. You don't think this is cool? Dude, it's fighting. How could you not like this? This is fighting. This shouldn't be taking place. Shut the fuck up. Dude, life is a fight. World is a fight.

54:21This is incredible to watch. Inspirational. It's a wild thing to watch. By the way, how much gold did Trump put on those walls? Look, he's got gold everywhere. Look at these fucking gold designs. When we were at the Oval Office, first thing I said is I was like, this thing is small as hell. When I see it on pictures, it seems so big. But the gold pieces on the wall is the first thing I was like, they dust that shit every day because, dude, it was so clean. Well, he put that up there. None of that was there. None of that was there. He was explaining it to me. There was no gold. I wanted to have gold.

54:49He's got a gold cherub, like a solid gold cherub that's above one of the doors. He goes, if Putin comes, hopefully it doesn't fall on his head. It's like he's got gold everywhere. It's all him. He redesigned a bunch of the things there. You know, he's a builder, right? So that's why he wanted to do the ballroom. That's why he wanted to keep it. You know, he likes everything in gold. He's a gold guy. What was it, Austin Powers? Bro, we were just watching you look at the Declaration of Independence before you walked out, which is also wild. Like, this is never going to happen again. This is more historic than Rumble in the Jungle, more historic than— I mean, think about all the great fights that we've all watched as kids that were like, remember that?

55:31This tops everything because of the scene because of the fact that not only is it at the White House But the American who's a six to one on some books underdog pulls it off in spectacular Fashion and just the seesaw of the fight back and forth the back and forth of the fight was fucking huge because the second round was crazy I was like, oh no, let it go on again when it's our corner all the coaches were like, dude They're gonna stop it and I was said out loud. I was like, please let it go on and I just wanted a definitive ending. Dude, because that would have been a point where it's like, especially with him going, hey, I want to go and continue and then we have Goddard come out and say, hey, you are.

56:12Thank God for Mark Goddard. Yeah. Okay, because if it wasn't for Mark Goddard, if another less experienced referee, you think he did? He wanted out. Yeah. You know for a fact, you do not ever as a fighter say, I cannot see. It's over. Right. And he was counting on that. He had already stated it. He didn't need to say it again. He did not think they were going to. I don't think he thought they were going to. So you think that he called Goddard a turkey internally? He was like, when he said, oh, you're going to go fight. No, I mean. Hey, I was playing. In that moment, he just like, I've done, you know, I've tried.

56:43And it might have been like, you know, the little devil on his shoulder trying to get him out. And then he reevaluated and re-thunk it and understood that he had to keep fighting. Did you say thunk? Thunk it. Re-thunk it. Dude, that's a real word. I stopped. No. I stopped. I stopped. I was like, what was it? I stopped him twice. I stopped him twice that night. There's no doubt about it. That's interesting. I loved it. I loved it. This episode is brought to you by OnX Off-Road. Ever wonder how to reach these epic mountain lakes? They're tucked away, dispersed campsites. With OnX Off-Road, you'll find legal open trails around you and even better, guided trails mapped by real off-roaders.

57:23Each one includes photos, terrain descriptions, and difficulty ratings, so you'll know if your vehicle is capable before you go. Unlike other apps, OnX gives you turn-by-turn directions on the trail, and their new dispersed camping layer shows where you can legally set up camp. You'll also get private land boundaries, public land overlays, and the ability to download maps for offline use so that you're never guessing even when you're off the grid. It's a powerful tool built for serious off-roaders. Try OnX Off-Road for 50 % off. Go to onxmaps.com slash Joe Rogan. Well, it was a big factor that Goddard let it go on because then we got to see that epic fourth round, which is fucking crazy, which was just in the end when you landed that knee to the body.

58:15That was like the final. Oh, yeah. That knee in the body was nasty. And then the punch is right where he landed that heavy knee that he just starts chopping it where he got the elbow in. Yeah. And then he has to quit on his stool. And if Goddard had just given to that referee or that judges or the doctors rather desires, here it is. I love how you punch right here, right on the spot. Yeah, I saw it. Oh, right there. Oh, right where I just lay out. Yeah, he did not like that. And that was the end.

58:46Crazy fight. I mean, it's crazy how different. So again, being a fan of the sport, I've got to watch, you know, I would have usually watched this from, and yeah, it would have been the most fucking incredible thing ever. Being the fighter, you know, you're really not appreciating any of that because you're so locked into. It's like golfing, like you don't know, but golfing is like certain swing thoughts, you know, and nothing else can come in, nothing can creep in. and so me looking at the Declaration of Independence, I was looking at it but I didn't take it in as this being the Declaration. I was sitting there and I was like okay gotta reset his feet, gotta control, gotta move left, gotta move left can't get against the fence and those are the thoughts I'm having through the whole walkout and so I'm really not taking any of it in as the show or as the theatrics of it of course not.

59:38Watching it in hindsight Obviously, it's fucking awesome. There was something special about you warming up with the American flag around your shoulder, too. We were watching that. There was something special about watching you shadow box before all this with the American flag on. I was like, if he wins, good Lord. If he wins tonight, it's going to be fucking insane. And it was. The feeling of joy throughout the building, throughout the grounds, the happiness that everybody had seen. had been there to see such an incredible event and such an amazing cap to that event with your fight. It was just nuts.

1:00:14It felt like a whole arena to me. It was crazy for the amount of people that you could see. Here it is, to backflip in front of the fucking White House. Dude, he flagpole. That's going to be a sick picture. Dude, you flagpole, dude. That's a sick picture. I rolled out of here. Hey, tell me what was it? Tell me what you used. Newton's law? Newton's first law. Object in motion needs to stay. I just stayed in motion. Stay in motion. That's all it is. Look at the size of that fucking crowd that was outside. So you couldn't see this crowd. Like, I couldn't see this crowd. But you know what, though?

1:00:45You could hear them and you could feel them. Dude, crazy. You could feel the energy. I mean, even though there was only 4 ,000 people, it did not feel like 4 ,000 people. It felt like 100 ,000 people because all those people were behind us. You know, it was different. How many people were in that place? 85 ,000 plus. Yeah. It happened so fast. The the size of the group outside was insane. Yeah, I mean and they're watching on these giant screens and freaking out like a concert Yeah, we're at the way is it was like dude. That's what I picture like Woodstock being like dude I looked and I could not see the end of the yeah No, it was not the Wayans were nuts when we first walked out.

1:01:22I was like holy shit. This is crazy But it just shows how hyped people were for this event, you know, I mean it was an incredible event I mean the UFC production team they just knocked it out of the park and then more importantly you knocked it out of the park It could not have gone better It couldn't have gone better and the most important thing was that you did have to overcome that We did see a real back and forth and we did see the skills that led people to believe that this guy is the number one pound for pound Farter in the world. I mean his fucking boxing is elite. It is But I mean, my coach is a fucking genius.

1:01:59I mean, when it comes to, like, again, it's really hard to, you always sound right in hindsight, but the strategy we had was so perfect to fight a guy like that. I mean, I think if you ask him right now which way was Justin moving, he's going to think I was moving right the whole time because my head is so heavy and I lean over to that side. but I was moving left the entire time. And he's so pointed that he's powerful here, but when you put him here, nobody can push and sprint. He's not ever going to take off sprinting that way as fast as he can. He's going to have to gather and reset and then point and then go.

1:02:42And I constantly kept readjusting him. And it was so subtle, and that's what fighting is, subtle movements but I mean his game plan was and then his game plan his mind my ability but really it's my athletic ability like if people don't understand how athletic I am and I think that is what surprises every opponent I've ever fought is how you know herky-jerky twitchy how explosive and how athletic I am. And I think that's the biggest asset that I have. Why do you think anybody would be surprised by that at this stage? Why do you think they're surprised? Because it doesn't look like that. Justin, I think you're looking into the paddy fight.

1:03:29I feel like the paddy fight, because a lot of people are like, oh, you look older, you look this, because of the way we fought. Our game paddy fight. How sweet is that now? I mean, if you watched the paddy fight, you would never expect, you would only expect punches coming from here. That's all I threw. Because he would pull with his body. And had to wrangle him in. Wrangle him in. And this guy, no shot came here. Like palm strikes. We need to palm strike him. We need to keep him inside of our loop. And if he's throwing straight shots at Patty, Patty will disengage very long with his upper body.

1:03:59So he was throwing wild shots and then long uppercuts. Like stay on the outside when you're throwing uppercuts because Patty's got very good knees coming in. So we can't get too deep with the head. Very simple plan. But also it was like make it chaotic. As most chaotic as you could be to be able to do that. Because Paddy, his blitzing was very fast. He's a very good blitzer. He'll blitz past you in almost like running type of punches like old Vitor Belfort. But this fight is a lot different where it's now elbows in. We have to be tied in these types of positions. And we need to step to his center and get on his back foot line or outside of his back foot line.

1:04:33And that was like a key factor to this one is because Ilya is very front heavy and will bounce back and forth. So once he goes to this angle, we need to attack the rear shoulder. And once he starts to reset, now we're going to be able to jab. And stick the jab at the rear shoulder where your jab was landing. That is my favorite part, is the jab wasn't landing here where Eli has got a very good slide. We're jabbing outside, so you're not doing inside jab coming under. You're jabbing from outside your shoulder, which is pushing him on his rear foot. And then once we started to pressure, my favorite part is the jab, pause, right hand.

1:05:04His left foot, Justin's left foot, when we go, has to be outside his rear foot. Like right there. He opened his lead foot and he got his foot outside. And that's also in case the right hand counter comes. That was a giant moment in the fight. Giant moment. Dude, the sound of it was crazy. I wanted to sub his ass. Oh, that was such a hard shot. Do that one more time, Jamie, and watch his lead foot after the jab. Now watch his left foot after the jab. Outside the rear foot. Boom. And that, because he's got a high shoulder. If I'm throwing a right hand down this point, if you were looking at me, Joe, if I'm here, if he gets his foot out, now the shot is coming from here.

1:05:40So we're able to put him on the back foot and find that over. Because Eli's got a very good shoulder attack. He also dropped that right hand down. Yeah. It was beautiful. It was beautiful. And it was such a giant moment in the fight. Like, look where I started. I started with my back to us. And look how I left, left, left, left, left, left. but if you go out to the left backwards where that's where Ilya to me is the best how we stop Volk where he'll throw at you and then you go and then he readjusts his lead shoulder almost to a southpaw super dangerous there that was one thing we talk about we cannot go backwards to the left because that's where we get square and Ilya dude he's very front heavy so he will attack you quick and he gets there fast well if he can recover from this it's going to be a big lesson a big lesson learned and you know I wonder if he'll still have those celebration dinners the night before.

1:06:32There's no way. He better not. Dude, his team. That's up to his coaches, to be honest with you. Hubris is an amazing thing. People love that kind of confidence. They love that belief in themselves. And when someone pulls it off, people were talking for days about the Olivera fight. You know he celebrated the night before. Isn't that crazy? And it worked that time. And it played out great for him. But the lack of experience being the nail. so much experience being the hammer the expectations he never thought he would have to be here but you keep saying, I wanted to go back to this thing that you said people don't think you're athletic and I don't agree with that, I don't understand why you think that I mean maybe he watches the Michael Johnson fight and doesn't think you're athletic I got to college, you know, my freshman year of college and I did a cartwheel to a backflip and one guy was like I would have never fucking guessed You could do some shit like that Like I just don't understand You know if you look at me I don't look like an athlete Dude you want a Ferrari No I know how I'm at I know how athletic I am What are you talking about The perception No no no Your perception is crazy Listen you look like an athlete What the fuck are you talking about He sent me this picture When I first met him He went up to do a clinic With his coach up in Granby With Ben Charrington and he sends me this video.

1:07:55I don't know where I open it up. And he's got a soccer ball and he's in this auditorium with the pads down on the ground and he's got his phone set up on the pads that are against the wall. He throws a soccer ball up in the air and he does one of those bicycle kicks. He played just like one or two years of soccer. He did a bicycle kick, landed on his feet and the ball knocked the phone off the freaking thing, dude. He hit the freaking phone. It was the coolest thing I've ever seen. I was like, bro, you are nuts. This guy snowboarding when we snowboard because I rode professional when I was younger.

1:08:23Got taken out of high school for it. And he, this dude, he would catch things so fast and his tumbling, there was one time we were watching him and he was in Moguls and Moguls suck on a snowboard. He does this 360, catches his edge, falls to his back and bounces off one of the Moguls to a backflip right back into the Moguls and do these people on the side. I thought he meant to do that shit. They were like, dude! I was like, bro, his tumbling skills? Dude, you're freaking nuts. You are an athlete. I think everybody knows you're an athlete. Well, you're not built like Paulo Costa, if that's what you mean.

1:08:53Yeah. You know, it's like you're not, you know, there's guys that have less body fat than you and guys have more prominent muscles than you. But nobody looks at you fighting and doesn't think you're athletic. That's crazy. I think it's the experts after the paddy fight saying, oh, he looks sloppy. And some fights got to be sloppy. Those people are retarded. Yeah. That fight looked like chaos. Looked like you were going to press him. And it also looked like you were kind of disdainful of his ability to hurt you. There you go. You know exactly. Yeah, once I didn't respect his power, I was like, I'm fucking walking through.

1:09:26Yeah, and that's what it looked like. It looked like you were just trying to make it as chaotic as possible. You make it sound like you had like a water boy. Like someone was like, the water sucks. And he's like, making the noises. No. You don't. But that's also probably a good thing that you think about yourself that way. because it forces you to rise above and beyond anybody's expectations of you. And I think one of the things about this fight that makes it so important is because Ilya was so dangerous, you had to get deep in the zone. You couldn't have a moment like the Max fight. Well, the Max fight got me here.

1:10:07Without that, I would have never been as hungry. I said it was going to happen, and it didn't happen, didn't happen, didn't happen. Then it happened, and it's like, okay. now I can never let my parents see me like that again that was a driving factor I can never let my mom I remember getting knocked out I don't remember getting knocked out I got knocked out I don't remember anything I don't remember him getting his hand raised and it had to have been 40 minutes to an hour and then I just my first recollection is being in the ambulance and seeing my mom's face can I tell that story? yeah yeah tell me what I did so we're in the ambulance you never know how You were there when I came back.

1:10:48Your mom's standing outside the back doors, and we're waiting for the driver. There's a medic in there with us, but he's good. But he keeps asking the same question over and over. I still don't remember any of this. And I'm worried about, like, you know, everybody's parents are different on how they react, you know? And his mom was just cool. Just, like, I was so impressed. I was so impressed with her just spirit of seeing that happen. But Justin's laying there, and he's, like, he's cool in everything he does. So he's got, like, this cool, like, lay. He's, like, you know, just got stopped. and he's laying there and he's like he'll look at me and he gets like his head he's like I got knocked out and I was like yeah he's like what round and I said last second of the fight and he goes good for him dude I'm telling you like two minutes to go by and we'd just be having normal conversation and he'd look at me I get knocked out and I was like yep dude it happened over and over yes but him saying good for him The way he said it every time that he came back to it, that's the type of person Justin is.

1:11:51If he loses in competition, the better man won that night. And that, to me, is something that stands out to me. That's character. Character of him saying when he does it, that's subconscious traits that you have. That character is also the character that allows you to reach your full potential. Absolutely. Because you're not being held back by any bullshit ego things. Not fake. Because there's a lot of people that are held back. As good as they are, they don't ever reach their full potential because they have some bullshit ego problems. Absolutely. They care of what everybody thinks. And in that situation, losing that fight in the last second of the last round and having that reaction, that is the truest test of character that a man is ever going to go through.

1:12:29Yeah. That is as true a test of character ever in front of the whole world. What I remember first is seeing my mom's face, though. I saw her face, and I saw no concern. She was worried about me, but she was not concerned. She wasn't freaked out. no she wasn't freaked out at all i was like and that's when i i never i never reset and asked if i had got knocked out again after that moment i don't think no no once it happened for probably i'd say you probably asked it six or seven times and then once that then we were cool for probably five minutes before we went to the hospital they were totally cool the the cool part about this joe is those are some of my and it sucks because he's he's taking a shot like this but me as a coach and as someone that just loves fighting and loves the inspiration and what these guys do is those are my proudest moments.

1:13:16Winning a fight like this, it was proud. And, you know, take it in, you're going, wow, this is a cool spot to be in. And you have to be grateful for it. But there's times where I'm caught smiling when my fighters are down, like when Kamaru got kicked. And I stood next to him with the biggest smile just because I'm like, dude, you went out on your shield. You were looking so good. and this is the way you stand up again so important to me justin salas one time with tim means it was one of my proudest moments just to see his his subconscious like i love the mindset hard knee dude tim means hits him with a knee and he fights through it a little bit and takes another knee and he goes down and he's on the ground and his right leg is still like moving and he's like still punching and he's out and i'm like dude that's a fighting spirit like there is no quitted like Like you're fighting through being knocked out.

1:14:07And subconsciously, he's still in the fight, and his body is still reacting that way instead of shelling up and being like, I just got rocked. I'm going to shell up. I could not wait to get in the octagon, and they're like not trying to let me in. I'm like, let me just get over to him and sit next to him and put some ice on him back. When we stop guys, I'm always over to the other opponent first. To me, that's the coolest part is being able to see someone go out there and do their best and then to watch them come back. And that's why I'm very excited to kind of see what happens with Ilya. This is going to be a hard one to overcome, but I hope he does because he's he's he's that talented.

1:14:37If he takes the right lessons, that's going to be a super inspirational thing to overcome. It's going to be hard, but I sure hope we get to witness that. This episode is brought to you by Blinds dot com. Texas summers don't mess around with patio surfaces easily reaching 150 degrees. Hot enough to make your backyard feel like a punishment. And if your windows are bare, indoor temperatures can go up 20 degrees. Get ahead of it with custom solar shades for your den and your patio from Blinds.com. Whether you want to do it yourself or have a pro handle everything, they've got you covered. It's all online so you can shop whenever you want but still have access to real design professionals.

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1:16:11Visible isn't just a wireless plan. It's unlimited wireless designed to keep you connected and no contract holding you back. Switch today at Visible.com. Plan start at just$25 a month. Or get our premium Visible Plus Pro plan and save$10 on your first month when you use promo code ROGAN, an exclusive offer for podcast listeners. I wonder if he's going to stay at 155. There are big guys at 155. And he wasn't that big for 45. You know, you think about weight cutting in the modern era. Like, you're considerably bigger than him. When you guys were standing next to each other, I'm like, there's a big difference in frame.

1:16:57I've also really focused on getting bigger the last three or four fights. Yeah? Yeah, I mean, I... You were 83 in a paddy fight. The night of Wayne, yeah, I was 83. 183 in a paddy fight, so he was big. I touched 80s, this fight. We waited on Saturday at 11. Saturday when I went to bed, I think I was 184. Oh, wow. And then I think when I woke up, I was like 176. That's how much water flow. It's crazy. Our bodies are crazy. Right, especially because all the weight cutting. But I think when I got there, I was pissing so much. I was actually too hydrated for the drug test, so I had to piss three times.

1:17:32I couldn't drink water. You were too hydrated for a drug test? How does that work? Yeah, so if the piss is too diluted, then they make you do it again. Really? Yeah. That's why doing it after a fight. They used to do it after the fight all the time. They do like a gravity test. But your adrenaline's gone, so you don't pee, so it takes a long time. It's like we've sat in locker rooms for hours waiting for the piss test. but when you're doing it after like rehydration that's a shitty thing because these guys have to hydrate everybody's fucking taking as much fluids as they can so that makes it tough but with the weight cutting piece with him going back down i agree with you i think ilia is a smaller body but he's also a big advantage for ilia's speed and when you go up and wait that speed is a huge factor if you see a lot of guys go up like with max max kept it kept his speed when he came up he when he went back down i think you know everybody was like oh he beat max he beat a drained max yeah i think That weight cut down to 45 for him was brutal.

1:18:25And this is where, from like a coaching standpoint, if it is hard for you to make it at that weight, I care about the longevity of a person. And I've seen guys get dropped with jabs because of bad weight cuts. Yes. And that going back down, that's to me the scariest part in this fight game. Well, I think there's two things we have to change in the fight game. One of them is weight cutting and two of them is your gloves. Absolutely. You're going to bring your fucking gloves in. But the weight cutting thing, don't you think that we need more weight classes? I shouldn't say that. I should say, do you think we need more weight classes?

1:18:59I think there's many ways. I think you're going to have to have some type of a weight class. And there's different ways to do it. Like maybe you have where you can't go over a certain amount of weight after you make weight. And you weigh in a week out where you can really recover. But I think guys are going to do it anyway. They are. They are. But I think for me, I want nothing to change. I mean, we are grown-ass men and women, and we're making these choices. Right, but you can make 55, and it's good for your frame. Now, imagine these guys that are tweeners. You don't understand how hard it is for me to make 55.

1:19:30I'm sure it's hard. No, no, no. I'm not thinking it's easy, but you can make it. You've made it over and over and over again. But think about guys that are in between. Yeah. Should be a 60-60 or 65-er like in boxing now. 70 to 85 is crazy. 85 to 205 is bananas. And then 205 to 265, that's... Those weight classes are already watered down. in a way. And so you're just going to water it down more. So these are my thoughts and my research that I've done that it's, I've talked to Dr. D about it. And I want to get some expert, some doctor who can actually talk to me about this. Because when I started researching boxing, why is there so many deaths in boxing?

1:20:10What stood out to me was almost every death in boxing in the last 10 to 15 years. Comes after. There's every once in a while is from a punch where they get dropped and they don't get up and they get hemorrhaging Almost all of them are past the ninth round Especially the ones I'm talking about that don't take a punch they're past the ninth round and it looks like they start to get tired And they're just like hey, I need to take a knee and lay down a lot of these guys are winning the fight And not even taking a lot of damage And if we're cutting weight the day before you're teaching your body to sweat and sweat and sweat But to me, I believe, because I've had a fighter where, you know, come on his last fight.

1:20:52We were cramping so bad. So scary. So freaking scary. Call it off. Call it off. I was within like minutes of calling. I talked to the whole team about it. But if you dehydrate yourself, think of my lips. If they get dehydrated, they crack when I smile. And if you dehydrate your brain, and I had talked to Dr. D. I was like, could that be something if you dehydrate your brain? Would cause something? He's like, absolutely. And then I started to research that. But if you go back and look at all the boxers, and if we can get someone that can do their true research that understands this stuff, that to me is like what scares me about weight cutting.

1:21:23Because you're training your body to lose that amount of weight. And when you start to do things in patterns, you just took all the nutrients out of your body. And then you're going hard in a fight like that. And that was like the big thing with the Tony Ferguson fight that's kind of funny now, but it wasn't funny to me. I didn't give him no fucking water for a five-round fight. That is crazy. And the longer you take your brain to that point of dehydration, that's a scary thing. Why didn't you give him water? he just forgot? Dude. Yeah, we were locked in. This guy don't train with water, so it was like, dude.

1:21:48Yeah, I don't drink water. I don't drink water practice because everyone's like, you want water? I'm like, water's for pussies. No, I don't want water. Talk about the mindset. You don't drink any water in training at all? No, he'll drink afterwards. Like, we did this fight. They made me this fight. Okay, so do you think that that just helps your mental... No, because I... It doesn't... It can't... Because I'm fucking working right now. I'm locked in. Like, I might not get water one day. You know, I might want water. Even when you're doing strength and conditioning, everything? Nothing. I never drink water during practice.

1:22:19Wow. So you make sure you're hydrated before you get in there. Yeah, I drink a lot after. But once you're in there, you're just going. Yeah, this fight was different. That's crazy. That's just me. That's just me being an asshole. You know, Ramadan's nuts. Like, I know Bilal was training with no water and, you know, drinking no water during the day and then training again at nighttime. And, you know, that's got to be so hard. But going through hard training sessions and no water, so you're doing it. So there's two things going on. One, I would think maybe you could do more work and get more reps and more of this if you're rehydrating.

1:23:01But then the other thing is, like, would you? And how much mental toughness are you getting by not giving yourself water, right? It's a crutch. And the mental toughness thing ultimately won you this fight. There is a lot of fucking human beings at the top top level the sport that would have folded in that second round You did look the happiest at the Tony Ferguson look you gave me I never contemplated not once not for one second did I contemplate that I was done No, I mean you that's that's how you hit me. I was like, oh fuck

1:23:36He goes dude that was a good body shot. I was like yeah, that was a sweet body shot dude who does that? I know. Who sits down is like, dude, the look on his face wasn't like eyebrows like an A-frame cabin. Well, even after the fight, you were talking about how skilled he was. You were talking about it. Yeah, I mean, I could go so many different ways with how I react to this fight. I just want it to be known how disrespectful he would have been if he beat me. If he put me to sleep, if his, I mean, can you imagine how shitty he would have been? and I mean it would have it was his persona and the world the world would have been fucking shitting on me like they're doing to him right now I was fighting for so much years would have been crazy I was fighting for so much that night you know I'm never gonna let people for one I know how special what I've done is and it would have taken all of it away with the loss and I wasn't gonna let that happen how about the people calling his loaded gloves do you see the picture the the image there's like rocks in his head people are so stupid what so funny What a compliment.

1:24:40Have they not watched any of his fights? People saying I'm juiced, what a compliment. People saying I got bricks in my fucking gloves, what a compliment. People are silly. You can't read the internet. There's always going to be someone saying something. I know, but again, I got here because I was petty. I read comments. They fuel you? They do. I've told them not to do it because I'm like, bro, this fucks with so many people. We had a conversation outside. Like it'll cause your mind to go crazy. And he's like, I love it so much. David Goggins takes haters and he records them on a loop and then plays it to himself while he runs.

1:25:21Yeah, I mean, that's crazy. I don't need to have it on video. I know. Right. I know what they're saying. I knew what they were saying every fucking day. Right. And that's, you know, partly why I won. Well, it's, you know, that Teddy Roosevelt quote about the man in the arena, you know? Yep. That's what it is. It's like there's always going to be people on the sidelines that are talking about shit. It's impossible to make it. Especially at that level that you're fighting. As ambitious as you are, you can never make everybody happy. No. That's why it's hard to be a champion. Which sucks. The pressure.

1:25:51It really is detrimental to like overall like what you're trying to achieve. And it's just so hard. Well, you can't make everybody happy because some people are just not happy, period. It's like you being awesome is going to make them happy. Yeah, but some people are not they're not healthy. They're not mentally healthy. Their brain isn't right They they haven't done the right things in their life and they see success as being somehow or another It steals their own personal joy Other people's success is bad because they compare themselves to other people and they realize that they suck I love seeing things happen good things happen for people Of course.

1:26:29Because. When Max knocked me out, I was like, good for him. Like, I'm fucking imagining what he's feeling right now. Yeah, but because you have given everything you have. You've truly maximized your potential. You've made mistakes. You've made great decisions. And ultimately, you wound up winning the biggest fight of all time. No, to exceed. But that's why you can be happy for other people. To exceed your expectations from 2017. To exceed his expectations from 2011. to exceed my own expectations is, I mean, I cannot describe how special and how good that makes me feel, you know, in general. Like, that was my goal, was to exceed expectations.

1:27:10You didn't exceed them, man. I always had a feeling that you were going to do some wild shit. And after the Tony Ferguson fight. You couldn't have said I was going to do this. No one could have freaking said this, dude. There was a lot of conversations that I had with people that were counting you out. I was like, I think he can win this fight 100%. I mean, I said it on the podcast. I even said it to Ilya. Like, Ilya was saying it was going to be easy. I've seen that podcast, and he was so wrong so many times. You know, not just the whole he has zero chance against Patty. He said something about how I probably sleep during the day more than I do at night because I party too much.

1:27:45And it's like, you were so, you don't remember him saying that? Yeah. He said something about weed, and you're like, I don't care about weed. Yeah. But for him to think that that's true is fucking insane. And you have five looses? Dude, now he's got one loose and he's going to have to learn how to deal with that. I was like, wow, what a fucking idiot. To think that I got here by just being a guy that drinks and has fun all the time, that's fucking crazy. My life is so boring. I don't go to bars. I don't do any of that. I sleep 8 to 10 hours every single night I was sleeping 10 but it's too much so now I have to sleep 8 but for this whole week I was sleeping 12 hours every single night of the fight week that's nice it was so fucking nice that is nice you know it's just one of those things if he wanted to watch your you have a YouTube channel you could watch well I mean it's also something to be said about how I knew he was watching if you go back to my other like we'll always show sparring we'll always show me hitting mitts I didn't show myself hitting mitts one time in this camp.

1:28:52I didn't show myself sparring one time in this camp. Purposely. Because we were switching up the game plan big time. Like the tight punches, high hands. He had expectations, but none of them were based in reality. And I controlled that. That's awesome. And then, you know, when I did make the comment about his wife, you know, it was in an interview like this where we were just fucking around. and I said it in jest. I didn't, it was 100 % true. I was like, he's so fucking annoying. I couldn't imagine being in the same room with him, you know, with his pompous attitude, you know, and you just trying to like hang out with the guy, but he's like constantly stealing all the thunder and it's irrational.

1:29:40And it's like, I would leave him too. Like, I mean, if that's my part, like that's why I broke up with my girlfriends is because they were somewhat like that. I mean and so I didn't mean it in a mean way like I would never dig at somebody and I would never make fun of someone's personal experience but that was like that was just my honest take you are the honest guy and I was joking but it was true you just say what you feel I said so many true things to him I said the so many I told him that he's gonna go to the second round go to the third round you're gonna be fucked because you're not gonna be able to pull yourself out of this you know with the way that you're thinking there's no possible way you can have these expectations face adversity and then come out in a positive way there's no way it could happen you're good you could dig deep and you could be even more of a narcissist and it might work but you you know you're gonna you're gonna walk yourself into a situation that is gonna fucking be detrimental to you and this is detrimental to his psyche and this is 90 mental So, again, I want to see him.

1:30:45We'll see how he adjusts to the loss. We'll see how honest he will be with himself. The strategy has to change. You can't just hit the gas like that. And we've seen that with boxers. We've seen that with all kinds of fighters. They just think they can just hit the gas. Well, obviously, you had to make your own adjustments. Yeah. You know how he overcame the max fight? How? He adjusted. Duh! Sorry. But can you guys know this song? Didn't you play golf every day for a year? Six months straight. Wow. Every day. Every day, dude. This guy got really good. Obviously. Yeah, DC was raving about it. He's like, I've never seen anything like it.

1:31:23He goes, this guy's playing golf like he's been playing for years. That's crazy. It's really good at everything he does. It's really funny. Well, you know, that's the mindset that's coachable. That's a coachable mindset. Competitive and also objective. You know, it's the same reason why you think you're not athletic. It's like you can look at yourself in a critical way and then see what adjustments you have to make where a lot of people are delusional. Yeah. And that delusional keeps you from getting good at everything in life. You do what you perceive. Dude, you got a perspective is everything.

1:31:53Like, how are you seeing things? And you always got to see it from the internal. Not peaks and valleys like this right here. Like, we come home and even through the airport, we're like, there's no celebration. I can see it is what it is. I mean, afterwards, like, peaks will kill you. Isn't that crazy? There's no celebration at the airport. But then what we did, someone was buying us drinks. We got there. We got there a little bit early. It should have been a fucking parade. I know, but I don't want that. I know. I know you don't. I don't want that. You don't. Just like you said, he's no different actor.

1:32:19But I have to do it because I do need to take advantage. I am the champion. It's crazy. I still can't fathom it. But I am the champion, and I need to be the champion. Be you? Enjoy being the champion for a little bit. And you need to look at yourself in the mirror and be like there's times to sit back and have bliss where you're like, man, I freaking did it. Like there's times that really. I thought that would come natural. Doesn't mean you run down fucking yelling out different brands of mayonnaise with no motherfucking clothes on and make bad decisions. You're like, what was that from? Oh, shit, dude.

1:32:50We did fucking three-fifths of fucking vodka. Are you going to continue fighting? Right now I'm planning on it. Yeah? Because you were talking about going out with that fight. There's not something natural in me that feels like it's over. So that's all I can say. Also, after a performance like that. Yeah, I mean, I'm obviously performing the best. Either way. Also, capitalize because the financial reward. Financial capital. Yeah, but I'm in a place where it's like I deserve to be compensated for what I have done. 100%. Not for what I'm going to do. I shouldn't have to fight next to be. UFC 300 UFC 324 And now this Those are the biggest stages That the UFC needed somebody To To do something phenomenal And they picked me every single time And I delivered I wasn't the main event of UFC 300 But co-main event still stole the show Even though I lost And so I think I need to be compensated For what I've done That's where I'm at So you're talking about in the future For like a next fight like yeah renegotiate no no no no no i'm not talking about for the next fight i'm talking about the ufc should make a company and give me equity in that company and you know so i can build passive income like that like i'm not saying that's what have you talked to them about something no no i would i would i've never asked luckily i have a personal assistant now so she asks for things for me but i've never been the guy that asked for things i wish i wish people that were opposite of me that ask for things and get all kinds of things.

1:34:27I wish I was given those things without asking because obviously people know that it's appreciated and I like it, but I'm not taking this truck from fucking Armin. There's absolutely no way I would take a truck. He never shook my hand. Oh, this is Armin Sarukian. We should explain that. So Armin Sarukian, he bet a million dollars on Justin. His friend. And won he won like 5-3 I believe. 5-7. 5-7? Yeah, yeah. So he's going to buy me a truck. What kind of truck? Wow. Now I just saw yours. Get a Raptor. I have a Shelby Raptor. Those are pretty dope. Those are dope. But I think now that I've seen your truck, that will be my next truck.

1:35:09Also, it has USA on the side. Yeah. You see the wrap? I love it. You didn't do that wrap? Uh-uh. That is sweet, dude. Hennessy's the shit. No, I want that truck. Oh, you need that truck. Yeah. Tell Armin to buy you that fucking truck. No, I'm not taking the truck from him. What the fuck? If I was Armin, I would force it down your throat. I would deliver it to your house and give you a hug. No way. You won him five million seven hundred thousand dollars. I didn't have to ride around in a fucking truck that a dude bought for me every day. I don't know. I just can't go there. No, no, no. You won that truck.

1:35:35You won that truck. We didn't shake on it. He does not owe it to me. I don't give a fuck. Take that goddamn truck. I'm right there with you, Joe. Yeah. Take the truck, dude. It's, first of all, it's cool. Yeah. And he might also be your next opponent. Yeah. I mean, that's possible. That's possible. That's the guy. He is. He is definitely the guy that's up for it. That's the guy. I mean, if there's anybody else in the division, that is the guy. I mean, now that Islam is up at 170, who else is there? That's the guy. I agree. Yeah, and what a division. I mean, holy shit. And now Charles is saying he wants to fight you.

1:36:09This fucking division has been. BMF and the lightweight title on the line. That would be crazy. So there's fights available. Yes, there is. Big, big. What are your thoughts when you're thinking about competing? Who do you think it will be? You think it will be Armin? No. No? I can't say that I have a name. Do you think Ely's going to try for a rematch? No, he doesn't get a rematch. He can try, but he doesn't get one. Wow. He quit on the stool. He quit twice. I stopped him twice. What else do I have to fucking do? Plus, his next challenge can't be me. He needs to fight Patty or someone like that.

1:36:45Does Patty have a fight scheduled? I think he's fighting. Yeah, St. Denis. Yeah. Ooh, that's a tough fight. It is. Yeah. Benoit's a beast. Tough game. It's a fucking crazy game. It's a crazy game. It's the craziest game. This episode is brought to you by Dodge. The new Dodge Charger scat pack is built for people who still believe driving should be exciting. You want to talk about performance? Let's start with a twin-turbo six-pack gas engine. All gas, no mercy, 550 horsepower, 0 to 60 in just 3.9 seconds, and a top speed of 177 miles an hour. Woo! Unlike vehicles that make you choose between traction and attitude, the Dodge Charger Scat Pack comes with standard all-wheel drive and a selectable rear-wheel drive mode, so you can get confident handling when you want it and the freedom to still be able to do burnouts.

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1:38:29And if they find anything suspicious like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, they'll alert you right away. All through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Even better, alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a LifeLock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. Now, visit lifelock.com slash J-R-E and save up to 30 % your first year. That's lifelock.com slash J-R-E for 30 % off. Terms apply. By far. Think about where you were when you lost to Max and then where you are now. Just think of the highs and lows.

1:39:13It wasn't that long ago either. It was not that long ago. Now you've got the BMF champ wanting to fight you. I have every belt. I have three belts three real belts, two interims but those are fucking real belts a real belt, the BMF belt and then the UFC 250 belt yeah the UFC 250 belt there's only two of those out there being a fan of this sport you want to come in here and do things that are not easily attainable and I've done a few things that are impossible to attain nine bonuses in my first seven fights 16 fights in the UFC I probably what like 12 main events 17 bonuses in 16 fights and to be put in the main event of a UFC fight is fucking huge like you know you go on the poster not many people get to experience that and I've done it almost every single time and so I mean yeah I mean I've done something unattainable it's gotta feel good it feels great it should as a fan it's awesome As a fan, it feels good.

1:40:21Right, as a fan of yourself. As a fan of the sport. As a fan of the sport, getting to see what you've done. Yeah. What did you think about Cyril gone? We didn't do it. We didn't get to see it. We didn't see it. We were in the locker room like, oh, you guys are going to go to a different staging room as soon as Bruce Buffer starts announcing. So they took us into a room with no screens. That's probably where the video of me shadowboxing with the flag. Yeah. That's where. So we were in there for like 30 minutes before I walked. and we could hear a little bit. I heard the ding of the end of the round, the horn.

1:40:55I was like, okay, was that round one? Yes. And then you hear nothing. I didn't even hear the finish. I didn't hear the crowd roar or anything. And then I heard, and still. Right? No, no, no. They said and new, because they were both going to be new. I thought I heard and still. We heard gone. I was like, oh, fuck, he won. Bro, that guy moves like a cat. It's crazy. For a heavyweight, I love watching heavyweights that can move. Like, remember the Mike Tyson era? Just watching, I was, I love watching Mike Tyson, and just watching all the guys he fought. Heavyweight boxing was so good at that time.

1:41:32People used to jump rope. Now it's like, I'm not going to say that all heavyweights are lazy, but, you know, my knees are bad. I'm a big person. Like, those guys can move, and Cyril Ghosn is one of those guys. Well, he's the most. He's so fast. The thing about him is he started out as a basketball player. So think about basketball. It's all these plyometrics You're constantly changing direction and moving and jumping agility. Yes, it's all agility and that translates so brilliantly to a striking style because You got a guy who's 248 pounds who moves like a middleweight or moves like even lighter than that I mean really moves like a welterweight almost he's fast Yeah, and just very agile and when you notice it is like cuz you know how good Pereira is and Pereira getting lit up on his feet like that and then drop with a jab it's like whoo yeah perfect time and it's heavyweights like those are big dudes yeah like obviously prayer is put on some weight but it's frame size yeah it's you know and prayer's got a big frame but it's there's levels your body's been that weight for a long period of time like it's again that consistency it's it's it's mma guy going into boxing you're yeah they're shorter rounds but you're hitting sprints every round like it's a different like there's there's you have to do it for a period of time to be able to adjust to that That's a different right everything that you do you have to slowly go into those positions You can't just jump into it and when you think about how big he was at 205 It maybe would have even been better for him to not really put on much weight I agree 100 % like Ciro gone's a grappler and you got to be fast.

1:43:01Yeah, you got to be like your speeds a factor It's a giant factor and he's got insane power. I mean his power has always been heavy Absolutely, he's not gonna lose it because he was so big he was 251 and I was thinking man And now it's like even though you have more power, you're also moving around with extra weight on your body. Like you're weighed down more by gravity. I mean, Ghan looked so light and so loose. He's just like that style for a heavyweight light on the toes like that is so unusual. And not allowing Pereira to set his feet. No, never. Like that's very smart. And even like feigning takedowns.

1:43:40It's not like he committed to those, but he's got them thinking about it. Look at how he drops them with the fucking jab. Brought them into it. Now, here's the question because one of the things that Pereira is saying is a lot of – there's an illegal shot. A lot of the shots were illegal and to the back of the head. But a lot of them were to the side of the head. Those are close. They're close because the first one – When they explain it to you, it's – Yeah. It's a two-inch line down like a mohawk. This whole apron right here. But it's like this is legal. This is legal. Yeah. This is legal. This is illegal.

1:44:12Legal, illegal. I mean, a couple of those shots definitely landed illegally, but there's also movement. No, I think the hammer fist for sure. That first one, did you see him drop his head down to the hips? Yeah, exactly. So you're moving, you know. So that's legal, that's illegal. There's a couple illegal ones. There's probably three or four. Right, but it's also movement and chaos. It's not like he's trying deliberately. That's like poking someone in the eye on purpose. Like if I was that good, I would touch their chin. Right. How was the fight stop? That's a lot smaller target. Was the fight stopped there on the ground?

1:44:43No. No, it kept going. This is actually the finish of the fight right here. If that was a finish. He caught him with a big elbow right here and rocked him. I mean, Pereira was in real trouble. Yeah. I mean, he got fucked up. Yeah. And Cyril Ghosn did a fantastic job. He really put it on him. Should you ever stop a championship fight on the feet? That was it right there. I would have. At that point, yeah. That looked like a good stoppage. I'm not saying it wasn't. I haven't watched a fight. Here's the stoppage right here. You can see it. I haven't either, and I'm just watching this. Yeah, that's...

1:45:13It was accumulative. It was so many blows. Maybe he could have taken one or two more after that for sure. But Pereira is pissed off at Herb Dean. And he's saying Herb Dean should never referee again because he allowed those shots to the back of the head. I mean, you're in the moment. I mean, but that's natural for a fighter to do. To save that afterwards. Well, if it's a situation... First off, you've got to bring awareness to it. You have to always be aware of, hey, I could have did better here. Because that's how we all grow. We need to talk about it. From what I just watched there, and I haven't watched the whole fight, was the fight competitive at all?

1:45:47Yes. The first round was very competitive. That would change a little thing, but from what I just watched right there at the end, that looked like a good finish to me. The refs have such a tough job. I'm notorious for being really hard on these refs because

1:46:05you expect them to be perfect. Their main job is to protect you. when I fought Michael Chandler. I'm still, and again, I only speak about it now because I've never had a retraction from the referee. Whenever he poked me in the eye and then he didn't get in between us and he let him hit me with a huge shot and then he doesn't give me my time to rest, not rest, to recover. And there was only five seconds left in the round so it turned out that I got a break anyways. But he goes in there. He says are you good? I said no, I'm not good He just poked me in the fucking eye and he says okay, but are you good?

1:46:47And so then it's like Can I still fight so then I said yeah, I'm good. It's okay go Who what referee was this guy with the braid that he puts in his Mike Beltran? Yeah, Mike Beltran and so I was very upset that he let Michael Chandler land that that shot and I know why he was so scared of the fucking heat we were throwing that he didn't want to jump in there and get in the middle of it but his job is to protect me and he failed he failed so bad right there and so like after the fact that's like i need you to acknowledge this so that you do not ever let that happen to another athlete in there because you fucked up so bad and you know he's trying to justify it and it's like what the fuck are you doing how can you justify this and so that for me that that that pisses me off and then the decision not to give me my time like i need an explanation you know and because i need to know that you are going to learn from this experience and for right now i still believe that he doesn't think he did anything wrong and so i'm still upset about that well once you say to someone petty we're petty you know you should be in that situation because when you say to someone you got poked in the eye are you good and you're like yeah i'm good but i got poked in the fucking eye and then you're supposed to say One or two seconds.

1:48:04One or two seconds. But are you good? I said, well, yeah, I'm good. He says, okay, go. Are you good is not the right question. You have five minutes. Are you ready to fight? Can you see? Do you need to bring in a doctor? There's a series of questions. But you have five minutes. It's very important. For a fighter getting poked in the eye, you have five minutes to recover. Yeah, I didn't feel like. I didn't know. I didn't know at the point. I feel pressure in my face right now. I don't. This feels boring. You're not going to know for a couple seconds. Yeah, I don't know. And you're going to blink a little bit, move around a little bit.

1:48:36All right, I'm good. And that's when you're, it's supposed to be very clear. That's when you're ready to re-engage. And that's what I'm saying. That's the mistake he has to learn from because it was such a, and after the round ends, I walk over to him like, dude, get your fucking head out of your ass. What the fuck are you doing? He's like, go to your stool. I was like, no, what the fuck are you doing? Like your job is to protect me. You just let me get hit with a huge fucking shot. What is going on? And he's like, go to your stool, go to your stool. and I sit down and then boom never thought about it again but still pissed off about that one.

1:49:06You should be. I mean that makes sense. Same with who's the ref that against Khabib after the fight he corners me in the hallway and he's like I know you would never never tap I was like I'd tap three times he's like no you would never tap. I'm like dude from the horse's mouth I'm telling you I tapped and he still was like no no you wouldn't tap I was like what the fuck how can we get through this I tapped three times I went to sleep I've seen that 100 % you tapped 100 % and he's like no I know that you with the way that you compete who's the referee I hate to talk I don't even want to throw him under the bus because it's like his intentions were good for me he believed I was he gave you a chance gave me a chance but like i fucking tapped man like i did fight should have been and i went to sleep because of it and luckily there's no detrimental and chronic you know long-lasting problems because of getting choked out so i'm not like getting there's no repercussions yeah there's no concussion there's no tbi like it really is not detrimental at all as long as you don't hold it too long and i die as long as i wake up i'm good and so I was like okay the repercussions aren't as severe and so like whatever I'll just let this go but ultimately he even when I told him he didn't believe me.

1:50:38That was the first thing you said when you jumped up you went over to him and then you guys had the conversation afterwards but you went over to him saying dude what the fuck I tapped he's like no you didn't then we seen him later but that was the first thing he said I was like dude I tapped three times I tapped three fucking times yeah it was pretty obvious and they don't see things too and everyone's like oh you said you know you're some kind of fucking you think you're some kind of superman why would you tap it's like when your life is ending you know you're a fool if you don't understand that like I knew I was dying and that's just where I was so that's how crazy you are to everybody their eyes are like no dude I know you better than you do you never tap you kind of fight like that that's what I mean people think the best that's how he perceives it thing up to this moment is people people don't give me credit for my intellectual abilities and I've also played into that and I've also understood how big of an asset it is for people to approach me like that you know thinking that I'm just some animal that doesn't think or feel or whatever whatever people think or think I'm retarded well I think what it is is when you are such an animal people think you can't be smart because the smart person would be aware of the consequences and wouldn't have the courage to fight the way you fight that's all it is and they and people who don't have that kind of courage they like to dismiss people that fight like savages because they go well savages can't be smart that's not right that's not correct people it's like you see a really hot woman you go oh she's got to be a retard yeah like no some of them are really fucking smart and also hot you know like the world is confusing and you You can't categorize people and put them into things, little fucking boxes just to make you feel better.

1:52:23Yeah. That's all it is. And the thing is, I never signed up. When we were walking out to the press conference, there's like 12 ,000, 15 ,000 people out there. I look at the guy, I was like, dude, I never, ever signed up to be a public speaker. What the fuck are we doing here? I never wanted to be in this where I talk in front of this many people. Like that's not what I prepared myself for ever. And now I'm in this situation where I have to, you know, every single word I get, I say before these fights is analyzed by the world. Like the whole, you know, my father is my dad. Like sometimes I get tongue tied.

1:53:01Yeah. Sometimes I misspeak. I do too. And I talk for a living. That's what I mean. But nobody, if people had to listen to themselves, they would understand that they also make mistakes. And so it's like, fuck, man. Like I can't be perfect. I'm sorry. I really I didn't mean my dad was my father even though you know It fucking makes sense and it's true Listen you you're dealing with a bunch of people that have to write stories They have to it's not it's not about writing a story because something is interesting They have to make a story no matter what it is They're they're way their job is to create content and when you your job is to create content You make content out of nothing and it's not usually it's usually not good And that's what they're doing.

1:53:45They're making big deals out of nothing. If I could have been mentally coached, it would have been in that aspect. Public speaking? Just like... I think you speak very well. No, no. It's like... I guess there's no lesson to learn. You just have to do it through experience. It's like fighting. You just do it a bunch of times and you get comfortable with it. Or you're naturally talented, like Connor. Who the fuck is that guy? Yeah, smart guy. He's great at that. He's fantastic at that shit. I mean, that's where he shines. You ain't lying. Man, you are like Tom Petty. Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers.

1:54:16You are Petty. Dude, who cares what people think? No, I know. I think he speaks great, right? I like to see what people are saying about our interview. Because I want to see the perception. I want to... Just keep inspiring. Yeah, but the thing is, you're asking for the perceptions from people that you would probably never fucking talk to in real life. 100%. Because they're dumb and annoying. You don't want to know their shit. And those are the people that are most likely going to comment. Yeah. The people that are most likely gonna you think Michael Jordan's out there leaving YouTube comments no right?

1:54:45It's not people that have their fucking shit together and have big goals 100 people who are really dialed in and really fucking Discipline and the people whose opinions you'd respect. They're not leaving comments They're certainly not even shitty comments. You nailed that that's just the reality and I'm not hating on these people I'm just saying like I would have been one of them if you if somebody give me a fucking YouTube account when I was 17 I'd be posting the most horrible shit about everybody Right? Everybody would. You're a kid. Or you're a dumbass. You don't have your life together yet.

1:55:16But that's the type. You can't listen to them and take that as gospel. Because it's just not. Just seeing him walk through the airport and just everybody's perception when they see you and meet you is so great, dude. Like people, they're like... Bro, the haters! If the haters met you, they're like, bro, I'm a big fan. Yeah, but still, but one of those things is like the inspiration on people. Everybody comes up and they're like, you're a favorite fighter. Like, have the brand that you're your favorite fighter, favorite fighter. Like, that is unique. Yeah. That is, like, such a cool thing. Like, you just keep inspiring and be you.

1:55:51You should be. Very proud of it. Should be so proud. You should be. Yeah. So I asked you after the fight if you were going to fight again. You said you promised your mom you weren't going to make a decision. And so it just settled in. I mean, today we're here. It's Friday. The fight was just Sunday, so it was five days ago. So now you're just like, fuck. How do you not after that? I mean you're the fucking champ. It would be great to go out like that. It'd be the an amazing cap, but also Great to have at least one more. Yeah. We'll see. People like to watch chaos. It's the highest level of controlled chaos.

1:56:28You know, it'll never be that chaos again because it'll never be like fighter jet flyovers. It's hard to understand how dangerous this game is if you don't do it. Right. And so. It's impossible. Yeah. Yeah. So that'll be a huge, that's a huge fact. There's a lot of variables that I have to contemplate when it comes to that decision. Do you have a timeline in your head? I do know. So you can't remember a time I fought two times in six months in the UFC. I fought two times this year already in less than six months. And so I'm going to take the rest of the year. I need my body to heal. I mean, I have.

1:57:12What's the fucking diagnosis? I have a severe bone endema in the tip of my fibula that happened on Christmas. And I have been dealing with that since Christmas Day. So a bone bleed, like a bruised bone? Bone bruise, yeah. It's in the bone marrow of the tip of my fibula. The tip of my tibula clacked against my femur. And it caused a deep, deep bruise. And I cannot get it to heal because I was going through training camp. It really hurt after the paddy fight. When are you leaving? When are you leaving today? We fly to like 6.30. It's 3 o 'clock. I want to see if I can get you into Waste Well. Let me text Brigham and see if they can jab some fucking stem cells in there before you leave.

1:57:55I've gone to Vegas. I've got stem cells multiple times. Waste Well is a pretty special place. PRP put me on crutches. It was crazy. And then I did a Coorsan shot the Friday before I left. Wow. And that helped a lot. Well, not training is really what it needs, right? Have you been doing any hyperbaric chamber stuff? No. That's huge. You have no idea how against my process you guys would be. I mean, I think I probably had two massages this camp.

1:58:30That's amazing. Well, it's really funny if you look at the difference between Ilya Toporia as a YouTube channel as well, where it's fantastic, really goes into depth, but they're using all this high-tech neurostimulation headgear, and he's doing all these different things. Have you seen the video? It's got him doing that and then me taking a 420 dab. Yeah, exactly. Did you see our video? Where he had the dog chocker on his forehead. Every time he got straight with his legs, it got flat. I hit the button. He's like, did it bend his legs again? No, we covered our eyes and threw balls at each other.

1:59:10Trying to tap into those intuitive abilities. Yeah, with your eyes closed. But I mean, I come from the fucking dirt. My parents fucked up. They didn't put a golf club in my hand at four years old. They threw me in the dirt. And I became comfortable with the uncomfortable. That's a giant factor, though. Being comfortable with being uncomfortable is a huge asset. Yeah. It's such a – It is. It is. With everything in life. With everything in life. I think wrestling is definitely – definitely has – is the biggest variable when it comes to my success. I mean, the mental side of it. Like, nobody can – it's very similar to fighting in the fact that nobody can help you.

1:59:55You know, it is against – all the blame is on you. All the success goes to you. And you can never use somebody else's excuse. Any team setting, I played football, I played baseball, soccer, swim team. Swim team's a little different, but, you know, there's always a justification for why you failed or why you lost when it comes to those. And you could always point to somewhere else or at least a piece, even if it's 1 % or 2 % somebody else's fault. Then you can justify it. You know, the loss. Yes. In wrestling, that's never the case. Not only that, it's a combat sport that's acceptable in high school.

2:00:33It's a combat sport that you take in junior high school, you take in high school. And kids learn. There's guys out there that are different. They're working harder than you. They're more aggressive than you. They want it more than you. They put in more time than you. And that's a lesson that's very valuable. Because kids get delusional about what their abilities are, how special they are, who they are. When you get fucking flatlined by some dude who just fucking picks you up and slams you on your back and pins you. And you're like, and he can do it anytime he wants. And this is the reality of training with this guy, like over and over and over again.

2:01:07You're like, oh, great. He lateral drops you in front of the whole class. Oh, great. Like, this is reality. Now, you're either going to get better or this is going to keep happening to you over and over and over again. And the mental toughness that comes out of kids that grind it out in wrestling and learn how to wrestle uncomfortable, learn how to cut weight at an early age. all that shit's terrible for you but the mental aspect of it is fucking undeniable think about how many great wrestlers have become great mma champions absolutely it's the most important foundation great business people like they i watched a study a long time ago they said that the boxing and wrestling uh created the best employees because accountability yes you know and again the cutting the weight like you're responsible like that's the this what i love about Justin is what makes it so nice to train him is high level people.

2:01:58Like I've had the luck to be able to train some high level guys lately and I don't have to deal with any shit. Like, you know, and it's, if I hold myself accountable, then there's, we don't have to have these deep conversations or get our feelings hurt that we're just true to it. His accountability for everything is just, there's, there's nothing like it. And I, I credit that to his parents. His parents are just such amazing people and the way that they had raised him to hold, you know, because he screwed up a lot as a kid. I told him if we were hanging out when we were younger, we'd get a lot of trouble because he reminded me of myself, super hyper, like making super bad decisions, but getting punished, getting grounded, being able to go out late at night, like strict parents.

2:02:35And that, being able to understand that there is rules in life and you have to be accountable. If you screw up, you've got to deal with the punishment. And that is, it comes from your parents. I agree. I think my parents being such good people, so my mindset has always since I was a kid I have looked up so the reason I take comments on line and I read them I've always looked up and given every single person I've ever interacted with the benefit of the doubt of being good and whether it's what they're saying what they're doing their actions everybody's been my role model I've never never looked at myself as a I've always looked at whether no matter what I even strangers like I trust that they're gonna that they're good and that's where I start my that's where I start everywhere from and um so reading comments online like I I truly take into account what what I'm reading you know and I don't know why because I know it doesn't matter a lot of times a lot of these probably fucking 13 14 year old kids but I in my mind they're 50 year old you know men with experience and I just try to use as much and as much of the readily available information comments words action as I can from a place of like I feel like a child in a sense when it comes to like interacting with people and I don't know I don't know why that's how I take it or that's how I do it but it makes everything you know a little bit better and i'm not as disappointed as much because like once i learn that they're not that they're not good and they can't help me then i don't be like oh that's a bad person i'm just like okay i'm not gonna have that experience again well that's a good perspective it sounds like you use it then and that's listen everyone's different and if you can handle it and you don't get mentally ill from reading comments dude that's a rare you're a rare person we had many conversations in a way that human services that's what my i went to school for human service i love to help people you have no idea how much joy it brings me to assist people to make people's life better to lift someone's spirit i mean those that is what makes me feel alive and that comes through my faith um and through my parents you know my parents are such good people they deserve so much more than most parents because of their actions and their example that they showed for me.

2:05:04And yeah, I'm just so grateful to be the person that I am because it makes life easier. Life is easy. Life is so easy when you're not concerned about what people think, when you're not worried about things that you can't control. Well, it's also easy if you're a good person. It's easier. But I couldn't be a good person without the example of my parents. You have no idea how good and naive my parents are. And when I say naive, it's in such a good way. Because they haven't done the bad things that most of us have done. And I failed him. And the last time I ever did drugs, I woke up in an ambulance.

2:05:46And I'm pretty sure I died. And I was like, I will never fucking do that again. My parents do not deserve that. And that was probably 2016. Wow. And I was like, I will never touch that again, ever. My parents do not deserve that. And that's why I'm here. Well, good for you, dude. That's awesome. And it's great that you have such an awesome relationship with your parents. And it really does seem like that attitude that you have is very freeing in a lot of ways. It is. It really is. Yeah. Golf. Weed. Trevor, let's talk about those gloves. What the fuck do we have to do to get your gloves into the UFC?

2:06:26It doesn't make any sense that we're using inferior gloves I want obviously I want to talk about this but the gloves I fought in this week were different They are they felt there it was a they weren't different It was the same same glove the leather was different. It was a little bit thicker I think and so it was softer And so every time I've ever fought I've had the most excruciating pain in between my hands right here And I didn't feel that at all this fight Mmm, so it's like if you have like a thinner material going through it's gonna cut through the skin a little easier So tighter material yeah, this was looser because it was thicker.

2:07:04It was weird So it was better better better for that feeling that all fighters for comfortability Yeah, like you have no idea how uncomfortable we are You're always like pulling on the glove to pull the back. It's like getting a hand wrap too tight and you get those little things You're constantly pulling on the tongue here. So you make a fist and it squeezes harder But this guy's a genius. He can fucking make anything So Hunter reached out to me three weeks ago four weeks ago and said he wanted to ignite The conversation again, so we'll see where that goes. But you know from that first position that we were in a lot of things happened in a great thing.

2:07:39I always told you was gonna be timing timing's everything and And they did the right thing and tried to make what we had spoke about. You know, we had an NDA and we had a five-year and they moved it to a two-year. Took a lot of great notes, and I'm very grateful to be a part of those because they did go out there and use a lot of the ideas that I had. But they just couldn't do it to the level that I could do it. And I thought it was super cool that they were trying because it's a problem that they don't really see and understand. So I think they're in the right mindset and them helping the athletes, I thought was a great, great thing to do.

2:08:13But during that time when I was going to talk to, I actually brought the gloves and it was when you were fighting on 300. We were out there and I had a new patent that I had been working on so we could go opposite direction if they want to own it. It's a separate patent from the patent that I had that goes in all of our products, the internal strapping. This was a new patent still with internal strapping, but a more dialed in for a fight glove. And then we had those two options, and when we got there, Ollie had told me that they're releasing a new glove. So we have two versions now, which is super cool.

2:08:46And, yeah, I think it'll go great. Here's the conversation, though. What are you trying to fix? Eye pokes. Okay. Eye pokes are big. That is not possible. You don't think it's possible to make less eye pokes? You can make less, absolutely. You can make less, but you'll never stop eye pokes. You're never going to stop. Well, of course you're not going to stop because the fingers are out. The issue is the athlete. The issue is the comfortability of the athlete and the performance of the athlete. That is where your ambition has to lie when it comes to making the glove better because the gloves we're fighting now are fucking terrible.

2:09:26It's hard to make a fist. You have to use your entire muscle of your arm to make a fist. And so by the time we get to the fight, This is already exhausted. Exhausted. And then the pressure in between your fingers is like something you can't replicate. This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list, not one more. With Carvana, it is. Just go to Carvana.com, enter your license plate or VIN, and get a real offer down to the penny. No back and forth, no surprises, just an experience you can trust. Like your offer? Accept it. schedule pickup, and we'll come to you with a check in hand.

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2:10:49It is not known if ZepBound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop ZEPBound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia.

2:11:20If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking ZEPBound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbounce.lily.com. Let me ask you this. Do you think it's possible to make something that's like a mitten? Something that covers over the tips of the fingers, you would have fucking 80 % less eye pokes? I do think you could do that in time. I don't think that's the change is hard for everybody Joe why that's a huge change for grapplers and things like that is But but you're a grappler so you're a grappler most people are gonna say well That's gonna affect this or my certain locker I think you'll they try it but again, it's it's it would enhance it The only the problem be like rear naked chokes like getting the hand behind that you have more thickness Like it's regular gloves are a problem already, but is it more of a problem just have the fingers?

2:12:22Covered with the regular gloves. I think it's the same might actually It might actually even slip in better, but the thing is it's like covering the tips with like a mitten like those old-school everlast bag gloves I just think it's a different sport now, but why you can still clinch you can do everything That's what I'm talking about you take guys to the ground But everything's the same you can still grapple. This is telling me so much right now Like if you take that away from me. Yeah, right like that is a that's a huge factor when it comes to intuitive abilities Okay, like explain that to me like what are you feeling with your fingertips?

2:12:54that you think would be missing? Well, it's not the fingertips. It's my hand. He moves away. He moves any direction. I can make that read. Now he's farther. Now he's there. Right. And I think if you're going to take touch away from us, that would deter our intuitive abilities. I wonder. I wonder how much it would if you start practicing with him. Where as a fighter, for me, it's like when I am relaxed, when I'm relaxed and if my hand can be in this position when I'm relaxed then I'm okay then then there's not going to be as many eye pokes but when I relax and it goes like this right like and now I have to force your hand now I have to do this I'm naturally you're never going to take the human reaction and instinct away to protect yourself and the instinct to protect yourself is no right that is the instinct right it's natural it's intuitive and it has to be that because you're trying to get your chin tucked behind your shoulders so that you don't get hit.

2:13:55But the uncomfortability and the strenuous effort it takes to make a fist is fucking stupid. It's stupid, and this is the difference between your gloves and the current UFC gloves. My gloves are made to perform. My gloves are one of those things that it's... Promote to natural hand position. Natural position, a better grip, better fist position where I'm not, when I squeeze my fist and I have the wrap on, it doesn't pull my hand up like this. And when you see guys touch gloves, they're usually like this, not like this. Right. And it's lining the bones up for, you know, again, they said that the last gloves were causing less knockouts.

2:14:31Our gloves were going to cause more knockouts because of better hand position, better grip strength on being able to have holds. Like if I'm holding someone's forearm. And better protection for your hands. So less broken hands. And internal strapping. Like that is a huge thing. Like my goal at a certain point would have to have where you can't have hand wraps. on like if you have a glove that's actually protecting your hand but you have the gloves on that now it's equal 100 because if you got one person that adds more uh more padding or less padding or double layers tape like there's many different things that you can do and that to me it's like if if i if one fighter has tape wrapping their hands and then the other one has house wrapping the hands they're wrapping differently which one's better for breaks which one's better for punching.

2:15:13Right. So having that, that would be really cool. And that's the difference with our gloves. I'll show you. I've never broke my hand when he's ever taped my hands. Like his tape job is, I can't wait to show it off to the commission every single time. I'm like, look at that. Tell me you've seen a better one than that tonight. And every time they're like, I don't think so. You got gloves? Of course you did. Of course you did. They're my favorite. By far. And ladies and gentlemen at home, if you're just listening, the difference between Trevor's gloves and everybody else's gloves, one of the big differences is that you can see, if you're looking at it on the, see how they're curved, folks?

2:15:52It looks like a hand. The regular gloves from the UFC are not. They're straight, just like this. So these gloves promote a natural punching position. Look, without even putting them on, they're already in that position. And then when you put them on, they're damn near perfect. The padding is amazing. They're fantastic to hit the bag with. They're just fucking awesome. and more importantly, look what they promote. So my hand is totally dead relaxed and it promotes a closed fist position. The cool part, Joe, is this. This is what I was talking about. So this is a, he's doing the internal strapping right now.

2:16:25So this strap is coming from over here. So that's going to pull this in. As you notice, we got pad on the side so there's no, like all the other gloves to pad. Right, right, right. So coming down on a single knuckle. But again, this strap is going to really seal you in. Oh, yeah. And then this one. Oh, so these are better than the last ones you brought here. Oh, this is fucking fantastic I've been dialing in finding the right product. Oh my god, you don't even need hand wraps Well, you had told me before that when you hit the bag with his gloves his bag gloves I haven't used I haven't wrapped my hands since 2015 Pfeiffer doesn't fight with hand wraps on which is crazy And it can get to the point if we have the right protection.

2:17:02It's awesome This is so superior to the UFC gloves. I mean, the fact that this isn't being used by the UFC right now is fucking criminal. We're going to get it done. I hope so. I've been trying so hard. I stepped away from the business part. I'm the visionary now. So I got right people that know how to make deals. So it's right. And the UFC is going to be happy. We weren't ready. Yeah. Dude, I'm in there like, dude, you know, I don't do that. That was me versus Khabib. I take full responsibility. Oh, I believe it. That I didn't know that you could do deals all these different ways. You know, when they'd say what they wanted to do, I was like, yeah, that's not how it did.

2:17:35Bro, this feels so good. It's so better. It's so better. It's just much better. It's like, you should use the best one. Oh, I want to hit something. Well, this is one of the things that I love about you is that you're so fucking creative with stuff. You're constantly trying to refine things and make them better. No, I mean, every single piece of equipment I have trained with for the last... Dude, these... So we see so many... So this is your training bag? 11, 12... Yeah, that's what I train in, yep. Nice. I hit pads in that. I've never wore hand wraps once. Oh, that's fantastic. Watch how you can't open your hand to go straight out.

2:18:08And then the pointer knuckle. Protecting that pointer knuckle is so big.

2:18:17Yeah. That's it, right? Oh, that's so nice. You open, you can still grip. You can still grab things. It's hard to choke. And the door knocking knuckles. I bet you do. You gotta go palm to palm, right? But still, it's just fantastic. Those are yours, Joe. Oh, thank you. And I got you another pair of X-Factors, too. Fuck yeah. You got big hands. Remember I gave you the 60s. You're like, bro, things are gonna work for me. Yeah. I got big hands for a little dude. Unusual. Yeah, we'll get it done, but I mean, anytime you want to. I'm so happy. I'm so happy you're gonna get it done because I pushed for it so many times.

2:18:54I brought it up to Dana. I brought it up to everybody. I was like, listen, what the fuck are we doing? You guys spent a million billion dollars trying to make these new gloves. You got rid of them in three months. That's because this could sound bad. That's because they've never thought about the fighter. But they did. They tried. They tried to make new gloves. They tried. They tried. They didn't fucking try. Yeah, they did, dude. You know how much money? I'm not going to tell you how much money they put in. They spent a lot of money. They did, dude. To do what? To give me the same exact fucking problem?

2:19:22They don't know. They hired people. They hired people. What did they do? The people don't know what the fuck they're doing. They hired a company that works on football helmets. But what did they change in their gloves? But they don't know. They took the ideas. At least they tried. They did. I will give them 100 % credit for that. They did try. But I remember seeing the gloves when they tried and going, these suck. These are not as good. Right away. Still uncomfortable. Still hurt my hands. I said to them right away, why don't you just get Trevor's gloves? What the fuck are we doing here? No, these are good.

2:19:46These are good. Get the fuck. The best gloves exist. They're already made. Like, there's only a few people out there that are willing to, like, really get creative and redesign and engineer gloves. And when someone does it to the extent that you've done it, like, God. So, Joe, when you think about that, that's where I think I fit in well with this. Because I want to evolve with the company. And if we change one thing, like, the first thing I want to do is help a performance. I don't want someone to hurt their hand where all of a sudden I hurt my hand on the top of your head. And I'm just left-handed now.

2:20:18And everybody just, you know, there's no pay-per-view now. but I pay to watch these fights. And now the guy that I wanted to see fight can't continue because he hurt his hand. Right. So we fixed that problem. We fixed longer, better grip strength for the grapplers who are going to need to have risk control when throwing shots. I want to help athletes perform. And as we go, let's slowly develop and test with the athletes and find out what, because it's about the athlete. It's what works for them. And when we can get gloves on people and try something like you were talking about, that'll take time.

2:20:46You have to train it and go, oh, I actually like this better. And there's the pros and cons. There's pros and cons to everything. Right. So it would take time, and that's where I'm passionate about is let's find a problem and let me think through solving it. But I need to know what that problem is. Your gear, and we should send everybody to your website. Is it Onyx? Yeah, O-N-X sports.com. Onyxsports.com. Yep, a lot of people spell it with a Y. The best gloves, the best shin pads. Thank you. You have the best equipment. It's fucking phenomenal. There it is right there. That's the website. Onyx Sports.

2:21:16It's fucking fantastic stuff. I mean, it's really obvious that it's a high-level coach who's developed all this shit. I mean, everything you make is top of the food chain. Got the best tester in the world, baby. There you go, Don. I fucking break everything. I'm sure. And I cannot break these gloves. I cannot break these gloves. I have to switch every, like, six months because I wear the foam out so much, so I don't ever want to hurt my... But you've got two or three sessions of training every day. Like, that's... For a typical person, these gloves are going to last well over... Corey had his shin guards for four years.

2:21:48I had my shin guards for like three years. And when you think about the amount of damage that three years entails, that's pretty fucking incredible for pieces of leather and foam. Yeah. So much fucking sweat. Soaked with sweat. Everything's getting broken down and moisturized and then drying out again. Crap. Hey, that's our bags that were up there. Dude, we got connectors for the shin guards and the knee pads on the outside, so all your equipment's on the outside of the bag to dry. Oh. Yeah, so that's really cool, too. So just trying to rethink how things work. That's what I love about the way you approach things.

2:22:20You're always, like, fixing the problems. I can't stand when we're not even working on kickboxing and someone's kicking. And it's because they're fucking geared. That was the worst thing about fixing my nose. Dude, fucking silly shit. Fucking smelling people. I was like, oh, my God. People stink. You know how the gym is, especially with geese, right? Dude, you get that old bro. The dudes who don't wash their geese, those guys are, that's a real problem. That's a real problem. And those are the ones who always give you fucking cooties, too. dude oh right so nasty yeah it's nasty listen justin uh i just want i'm so glad you're not going to fight to the end of the year like for whenever just enjoy that because that was a fucking masterpiece yes sir it was beautiful to be there i mean i felt so american american i felt so it's so hard to represent this country because we're such a melting pot yes and i think i have done it i think i achieved that and so i'm very very proud of that dude you You did it in spades.

2:23:14You did it five stars. It was fucking phenomenal. It was one of the greatest events that any sporting event has ever put on. I mean, maybe the greatest sporting event in the history of the world. I said it before. This is going to be like some Miracle on Ice shit. It was, man. I know. It really was. I knew I had the opportunity to do something special. You did it, and then here it comes down. Yeah, I wanted to see my family. It was incredible. That was so cool. So awesome. Look how cool that is. Yeah, so cool. Look how cool that is. That is so amazing. That's so fucking amazing. It was an amazing night, dude.

2:23:47I'm so happy I went. I'm so happy I was there to see it live. It was a real honor. I was honestly really nervous, Joe. I was like, dude, there's like, just again, being around everybody and something could happen. The drones that they stopped. Again, I wasn't knowing what to expect. And then until after the fight, because again, we couldn't take it in. It was a beautiful thing. And Justin. I was like, fuck it. If I get taken out in the middle of the cage, how fucking legendary would that be? I said to Trump, I hope we don't die in a terrorist attack. I said to Trump, I hope we don't die in a terrorist attack.

2:24:15He goes, we got to go somehow. I go, what the fuck? Everyone will remember it for the rest of eternity. I'll pass. Sign me up, bud. Better the way it went. The way it went is way better. That's a way better outcome. Way better. Well, hey, brother, thank you for coming here. Yes, sir. Congratulations. Masterpiece. Yes. Both of you. Let's go hunting. I want to go hunting. I just got a, I'm going to shoot an L. I saw on GoHunt. My first up this year. On the GoHunt website, you went antelope hunting. Yeah, that's awesome. Do you see? Almost this. A thousand yard shot? Dude, check it out. Check it out.

2:24:49We fucking missed our ass off. It was windy. These things do not stop moving. They could see us forever, and they just kept going. And we were on shoot. We couldn't get prone. So we had to, you know, every hunt, you're like, I'm going to have a prone position. I'm going to shoot from. We cannot get in a prone position. So we're on shooting sticks, trying to manipulate the sticks and take shots. Oh, yeah. Antelope, you know, that's a prehistoric animal. So Luke misses from 140 yards. Dude, this story was so much better for Luke without that. This thing goes to 1 ,093 yards. Crazy. And he hits it in the head, drops it.

2:25:24And we're just like, what the fuck, Luke? How? How do you hit that shot and miss 100? This is, yeah, look at this. Wow, that's crazy. 1 ,092. Was he shooting for the head? No. I don't even know if it hit any of that. It looked like a neck. Yeah, it looked like a neck. It was, well, a thousand yards. Who knows how much wind drifted. We're just trying to hit the center of the fucking target. And these crazy prairies, too, the kind of wind drift you're dealing with. Dude, and they don't, they can see for miles, these things do not stop moving. No, they evolved to get away from cheetahs. They used to be North American cheetahs.

2:25:58And so North America, this is all before the Younger Dryas impact. So it was like when somewhere around 11 ,800 years ago, 65 % of all North American mammals went extinct. And there was an American lion that was bigger than the African lion. And then there was a cheetah. And these fuckers, these guys evolved to get away from cheetahs. So they can run like 55 miles an hour. Forever. They fucking lie. Forever is crazy, though. Evolution is wild. When you look at them, they look prehistoric. Their eyeballs are like way out here. It's crazy how good a decoy works with them, though. Oh, horses, too.

2:26:31Guys walk right up on them on horses. Get a moo cow. Just walk right behind that bitch. Walk right behind them. That's how archery hunters do it a lot. Because you have to get a lot. Very tough to sneak up on them. Do you ever bow hunt? No. No? Do you want to learn? You would love it. It's not that I haven't. You would fall in love with it. I have a bow. Just hasn't hunted. I shot an elk and did not recover it. and I told myself that I will never go archery hunting unless I have the time and effort to be 100 % ready to make that shot. Right. And so right now it's just rifle. Well, rifle is always going to be the most effective way.

2:27:11It's still an awesome way to hunt. Coos Whitetail in Arizona is my favorite hunt. Oh, really? You should go on that with me one of these days. That's a fun hunt. Those are tiny little guys. Tiny and great ghosts. I grew up there, so my buddies their whole life have looked. We could go out there. We wouldn't find shit. they're fucking everywhere but you can't find them they call them the gray ghost and my buddies can find them and it's such a fun hunt yeah it's a great hunt well Arizona's a great hunting state too you have some of the best elk in the country yeah gentlemen again congratulations absolute masterpiece Sunday night one for history maybe the greatest event in the history of the sport got me on Joe Rogan again baby let's do it one more time when you do decide to wrap it up Thank you, guys.

2:27:55Thank you. And onyxsports.com, get the best clubs in the world. No problem. Thank you. All right. Bye.

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