JRE MMA Show #185 with Ethyn Ewing

30:43I think that's also something. I mean, I do a lot of comparison from Muay Thai boxing to the MMA world because I'm in MMA, so I understand that there's so many different aspects to it where someone could take you down, and that's going to affect your striking skill set. If you've got someone who's a real dope wrestler and you're a way better striker, if you're sitting there and worried about them taking you down and smothering you, your striking goes out the the window a little bit because now you have a whole different set of weapons that you're worrying about um and you can get caught easier yeah especially if you're like just loading up on them yeah you're gonna get ducked under and double-legged and and then taken down and that's that's the whole thing but um i forgot where we even started this train of thought but uh yeah i mean i i think it's his his collectiveness too but i was i was saying there's comparisons to all these and that's what like boxing you see these guys they might have a couple more rounds but they come out and like the first round maybe uh the second round is is a feeling out round you know it's it's a slow build up where they're they're collecting data they're setting traps they're they're doing a lot of that and you see that in mma it's just not at the same level obviously there's a there's a greater skill set there's more weapons to worry about it is different um but i don't know i obviously i'm reaching for peak perfection with everything so if we're coming and we're looking at distance control i think the boxers do it better you know if we're looking at setting up feints and and working off a jab especially i think that's i think that's the most frustrating thing when i watch mma or ufc fights and watch the majority of the guys never never ever use a jab and it's always just this big overhand right i'm like Like, what are you doing?

32:32Like, you have two hands. That's crazy. You have the jab. Set it up. Now, I'm not saying that's everybody, but I see many people doing that. But going back to Teporia, that's one thing that he does so well is he's a shorter guy. He sits back on that back foot. He's throwing that jab. He's understanding your distance control so he can get in. And then that's where he's got that power, and he lets that go. It's going to be interesting to see how he rebounds because that was a lot of damage. He had two fractured orbitals. They had to stop the fight in between rounds. And he took big punches from a guy who's got fucking rocks in his hands.

33:08Justin can crack. Well, they call him, what, the most violent? The most violent in the game, and I think that stands true. Yeah, that's a hard one to bounce back from. It's going to take extra time of him really letting all his injuries heal and be fully recovered before he even thinks about sparring again, you know? ever get touched in the face again yeah i don't know where he's at now you know um but i know that he's still recovering and it'll be a while i mean the fight was in june we're doing this right now it's august 30th was the 30th or 31st 31st 31st so you know he's had a couple of months but you know that he probably needs like six months before he's even sparring again oh yeah for sure yeah i mean it's gonna take some time it's gonna take some time and the thing that i really hate to see is when you guys you have undefeated individuals like that who have gone undefeated their whole career feel invincible and then sometimes that one takes them off their pedestal you know like jose aldo's a great example of that of i mean and he came back and he fought tough but he just never was the same right he was never that untouchable um you know there's probably many people that i can touch back on but yeah hope i think hopefully that's that's the main thing that he's going to need is that that mental um indestructibility and to come back and just be like i'm the same person that one fight doesn't change anything and i'm ready to go do it again well he's a very mentally strong guy and i think he will bounce back in that regard it's just there's also the just the reality of how much damage and only he knows how much damage he actually took in that fight yeah you know how that affects him as well because you know as well as anybody that there's only a few of those kind of fights that you could have in your career.

34:52And you've got to be very careful how you recover from those. And a lot of fighters, a lot of great fighters, have made a mistake of coming back too soon. Volkanovsky is one that I point to all the time, who's arguably the greatest featherweight of all time. He is one of the most masterful fighters in the game. He took a short, short-notice fight with Islam in the rematch and got head kicked. And then I think it was only four months later that he was fighting Ilya. And that is crazy. That's a crazy thing to do. He took a full head kick, shined the dome, gets KO'd, and then four months later he's fighting the fucking scariest challenger that he's ever had to face.

35:31Right. Yeah, 100%. You can't rush back into those things. I mean, especially when you're that cemented, you don't really need to rush back into it. Right. You have your legacy behind you. Well, you shouldn't have even taken that fight with Islam. There's no way. You should take a world championship fight when you're hanging out with your buddies, drinking beer, eating fish and chips or whatever the fuck he was doing. He's hunting with Volk over there. He's having a good time, but he wasn't in training. There's no way he was in training. He didn't look like he was in training physically. His body didn't look the same.

36:00Not only looked out of shape, but he definitely looked smoother and less ripped than he usually does. There's a difference to being in a two - or three-month fight camp of day in, day out, two, three practices a day. the diet's set the the mentality is set versus i'm just training on the outside of that when you came in on two days notice to fight wellmaker were you in training at all like what was your scenario uh i was doing a food eating championship training i was killing uh double doubles and three by threes no but with that one i was i was fortunate because um i i stay strict pretty much year round so I had fought in January at the beginning of the year and then I was supposed to fight multiple times and I just had I had two or three opponents pull out and then I fought November 7th for the title fight for the A1 combat which was literally the weekend before so fortunately I did I was even though people were falling out I kept to the course I stayed strong I stayed in a fight camp mentality that November 7th fight ended up happening so I had a strong two months now still even that one week difference of going being a fight camp and then I have a couple drinks at the casino I'm eating food and I thought to myself because January was it was a similar thing where they said February Australia get ready get your passport let's look into this blah blah blah you know I had a had a nice knockout finish there but then yeah just just that one week of being off of, of eating whatever I wanted to and just kind of doing whatever I ran once.

37:42I showed up to sparring and light touch sparred. Um, I had gotten to one other practice cause in my mind I was like, I need to be somewhat ready for this. Like I can have, I can have a week. I've been in fight camp all year long. I can have one week and then that's the week that they call and say 48 hour notice MSG 10 and no undefeated Malcolm wellmaker. You want it? And, uh, and then of course I'm going to can't say no to that one. So had you fought the weekend before the Wellmaker fight? I fought November 7th, yeah. Wow. That's actually good. If you didn't get hurt. Yeah. Well, it was a minute and 30 seconds.

38:17I knocked him out in the first round. So to me, it's just the stars aligned. This episode is brought to you by Focus Features. From the acclaimed director of Jason Bourne comes the thrilling new movie, The Uprising, starring Andrew Garfield. In a land of kings, a man of the people will defy the most powerful empire on earth and ignite a revolution. Inspired by a true story, experience the legendary epic and witness the rise of a legend. The Uprising, only in theaters September 10th. Discover it at Dolby Cinema. Rated R, under 17, not admitted, without a parent. Don't you think it's also good that you just had the experience like seven days prior to the whole thing getting in the cage Cage shots you just fought so it's much more comfortable for you Then if you had like Connor taking five years off as elite as Connor is Double champ one of the greatest of all time for that even a guy like that You take five years off and you could see like what it did to him.

39:21It's like it fucked with his head Oh, yeah, you could you could see it there wasn't the same Connor energy going into it of course i i always want a quick turnaround like after i fight just for that very reason i i i cut the weight i know what that's like i warmed up in the back with all the anticipation you know and that energy flowing through my body i walked out in front of the crowd they announced my name i i got there i i actually fought someone so yeah if you have that going for you then that's Yeah, it's way, way better for sure. Yeah, the more active you can be, the more comfortable you can be with the experience, as long as you're not getting hurt.

40:01Here's a stat that I was reading about Izzy. And people forget about this. When he was the champion, he defended his title a lot, man. He was the guy that they can go, hey, we need someone to headline this card. And Izzy would step in. And I think he fought three times. He defended the world title three times in one year, which is crazy. Because I don't think the middleweight title since he's gone has even been – like how many middleweight fights have there even been for the title since he's been gone? There's only been a few fights. I think there's only been – I mean there's Sean and – And Drikus.

40:39Sean and Drikus too. Drikus and Hamzat. And then Sean and Hamzat. And Sean and Hamzat. I mean, it might literally be like maybe five fights since he's lost the title. And, fuck, he defended it more than anybody. Right. Yeah, which is crazy. He defended it three times in one year. Yeah. And then you have this huge span of time in between defenses. But then there's the question of like what is the – when does it become a benefit and when does it become a detriment? Like when you're fighting too many times a year, like the Merab-Davish-Willie fight. one of the things that a lot of people talked about after Piotr Jan beat him in the rematch was what about the strength of schedule I mean Marab was fighting constantly he was fighting he fought so often and for so many years that you got to think that at a certain point in time maybe he's doing himself a disservice by being so active yeah I mean for sure I don't know I mean that's it's something you got to feel out for yourself you know it's it's something that you have to know in your heart of hearts and nobody else can tell you that your coach can't be like no you're training really well these days you're super sharp this and that like if something's off realistically you should be perfect going into your fight especially at a world championship caliber um it's just i mean i keep making these comparisons but it's another thing that i i go back to with the boxing world is these guys look at it as a business like look at floyd mayweather like everything was like he made sure that the the cage was his side he picked the gloves it was certain people at certain times and there's there's some things to be said about that but it's a business mindset it's a very smart approach to it you know i'm fighting when i'm ready i'm not fighting injured which is which is more of the main thing is like people go in there with injuries and you know get hurt or or lose even it's like that's that could be detrimental on your record I think the MMA guys are a little bit more on the tough side instead of the the business side of things where they'll they'll fight anyone anytime which I mean that's how you got to be but that's how you build your team around you you have a team that tells you hey you know this time isn't isn't necessarily the best to go into it and this and that and just being a little bit smarter about your schedule it's like yeah us fighters are going to sit there and go I'll fight anyone any given time doesn't matter but yeah this is this is a business is not just um fighting like getting in that cage solely it's it's a lot of aspects that go into it don't you think it's way more difficult to go into a fight perfect in mma than it is in boxing though in boxing it seems like it's much easier to avoid injuries for sure there's there's there's differences i just i reflect back to that i like the way that they conduct themselves i think it's and there's a lot that's to be said to that because it's it's a longer standing sport there's spend more time and experience into it.

43:36But, yeah, 100%. I mean, you know, I was, before this April fight, the first round of the day of sparring, I was just going light with Callum Bisping for literally one second. And we moved around, and he's a heavyweight. We moved around, he tried to take me down, I stuffed him, he took me down, and I kind of just sat with it because I didn't want to get caught in any knee-tweaking positions or anything because he's just so much heavier than I am. and I sat into a butterfly which is typically how I would do that elevate the hips immediately and try to make a scramble and my my meniscus just popped instantly right then and there first round of the day barely barely had done anything barely started and it wasn't even like a crazy position but yeah now I've sustained injury now I don't go against heavyweights anymore because you should never be doing that it's stupid as a bantamweight you should not be sparring with well that's why I go the first day, or not the first day, but the first round, and I'm just trying to warm up.

44:33There's a lot of things to be said. I grow, and I learn, and I get smarter every time. I think you should only spar with guys that are reasonably close to your weight, period. Ten pounds is probably a maximum above you. You shouldn't be going with anybody more than that. Yeah, I get smarter with these things. I do dumb things, and I figure for most of my history, I've had to learn the hard way with things. So I'm getting better at it. I'm getting smarter. But like I said, it was just a freak thing. It wasn't like we were going crazy hard or anything. It just was the first round. I was just trying to move, and then some little thing happened.

45:07How bad is it? It wasn't a full tear, but it happened back in February-ish, right before that April one. So leading up to the Esteban fight, it's like I didn't grapple until the last maybe month of it, maybe a couple weeks. Oh, so it was bothering you even before that fight? It was all the way up to it. That's when it happened was the April fight, which was the Esteban fight. Wow. So, yeah, it's very difficult to avoid everything. You know, like there's a lot of different things that won't even seem like a detrimental position. But, yeah, you got grappling, which can tweak all sorts of different parts of the body.

45:42A simple cut from striking can happen very easily. So, for sure, it's much more abundant in the MMA world because there are more weapons. There's a lot of variations of things to watch out for. but that being said I like to carry like I said this is a smart man's game I like to carry a level of business wise and smart wise to this and that's so though though the exact functions may differ it's the mindset that I like to carry from it right well what you said is perfect that it's a long business boxing's been around for a long time and the really elite trainers the really elite coaches is they know how to prepare their fighters and they know what fights to take and when to take them right and unfortunately with the ufc like sometimes you get a call like the malcolm well maker fight you know and you're like oh shit it would be nice to get two months to prepare for malcolm but i have two days right and i just fought fuck it roll the dice and you also were Coming out of nowhere and I don't think a lot of people had time to prepare for you because as good as you are When you fought wellmaker when you fought How do you say his name Estevan?

47:00What is his? Rafael Esteban. He was also undefeated and Super skillful. He was a really good fighter and still is but um To have those two performances in a row the way you looked you looked like a guy like if you were 20 years ago you would have been a fucking alien like no one had seen anybody like you before that's how much this sport has grown just in 20 years you go back to like ultimate fighter season one there was fucking nobody like you nobody like you back then right you know really wasn't until anderson burst onto the scene shortly after that that we really got to see that kind of elite level striking yeah i mean yeah talk about an alien for that time that was anderson silva That's that's one of the top to ever do it.

47:48There's there's no question. Oh my god People forget because maybe they see his later fights in his career Yeah, you go back and watch him when he was in his prime I remember when when he fought Chris Lieben and Chris Lieben is a murderous puncher Like one of the hardest punchers that's ever fought in the UFC. He's he's one of those guys that's got that fucking God-given crack, right? And he's just such a warrior. I mean wades into the storm, you know But that style is tailor-made for him and when I was looking at the odds a friend of mine was there I go bet the house on the Brazilian. I go bet the house.

48:23I go listen to me This is a motherfucker dude. Just wait because that's when he really came into his own Over in cage rage when he that's when he really became Anderson Silva. That was a yellow cage Was that a cage rage? Yes. That's when he did that. The elbow, the crazy elbow? Yeah. Yeah, with Tony Fricklin. Yeah, what was the, it was like a up kick, like a crescent up kick. Was that Pride or was that the cage rage? He was on the bottom and he whipped his leg over the top. It wasn't like a straight up kick. He kind of like brought it over. Ooh, I don't remember that one. Yeah, I don't recall either.

48:58Who was he fighting? I don't know. I'm not good at names always. So in Pride, it was, who was he fighting here, Jamie? Japanese gentleman. Yushin Okami. Oh, Yushin Okami. This was Rumble on the Rock. This was BJ Penn's promotion. Look at that. Oh. Yeah, he's just doing things that nobody had ever thought of at that time. He gets that right leg loose, ties his hands up, bow bow. That's crazy. And Okami was a beast. And they fought again in the UFC later, and he KO'd Okami. Yeah, stuff like that. The elbow you're talking about. Yes. Just like a pioneer for it. It's not like he's watching film. He's not sitting on YouTube watching people do these things prior.

49:42He's the one that's coming up with this. Yeah, this is the crazy elbow. You know the funny story about this elbow? He was training that, and his coach told him, stop doing that. You're not going to do that. And so he made his wife hold pillows at home, and he was practicing it at home. He was having her hold a pillow, and he was just working on the mechanics of that elbow. It's like he wanted to prove his coach wrong. Right. And he wanted to get the knockout with that technique. And lo and behold, he did it. Well, he had some great fights over there, particularly the Lee Murray fight. Did you ever see that fight?

50:15Probably. You know who Lee Murray is, right? He's the British dude that— Became a bank robber? He was the bank robber, Craig. Biggest heist in U.K. history. Yeah. Yeah. And that was a bad dude, too. Oh, he was a bad motherfucker. At the time, everybody was scared of that dude. Well, that guy could crack. He was another guy who had crazy power. And just a vicious dude. Just an absolutely vicious guy. He was a legitimate criminal. Yeah, exactly. He had that whole aura and persona to him. Yeah, he was a real gangster. Yeah, that brings a little bit more of this, I don't want to say fear, but who's this guy?

50:47The fucking guy was an elite fighter, and he was also an elite criminal. Right. Yeah, he's multi-talented. I mean, that's something in a movie. like a guy who's a top-tier criminal who also competes and wins in the UFC. Right, yeah. And won by triangle. He beat Jorge Rivera by triangle. Yeah, and it's crazy. Yeah, I know. And you have Anderson come in and just demolish this dude. He just wrecked him. And he wrecked him with technique, and a lot of it was leg kicks. Anderson's Muay Thai was at such a different level. It was so artistic. Yeah. I think that's the perfect word to describe that was artistic because it's just beautiful.

51:30The way he set things up. I mean, he made elite guys look very brand new in the cage. And I didn't see very many close fights with him until later in his career. Yeah, it's a later in his career thing. And I always say that with fighters, you really have to look at them when they were at their highest RPM, whatever. Generally, it's only a few years. But that few years, like, judge them by that. Judge them by those performances when they were just on fire. And I tell people you have to always go back and watch those Anderson fights. When you front kick Vitor in the face. First time anybody had ever won by knockout with a front kick to the face in the UFC.

52:08Now people do it all the time. But I didn't even think that was a good option. There's a video, and I grew up kicking. There's a video of me and Eddie Bravo. We're working with one of those Bob dummies. And he's like, what do you think about a front kick to the face? I'm like, eh, it's better to the body. I mean, you could land it to the face, but I don't really see very many guys do it. It's much more wrong. It's perfect. Just watch the Anderson Silva fight. And everybody does it now. So many guys get knockouts with a front kick to the face because you don't see it coming when it comes straight up the middle.

52:38If everything's coming around, then all of a sudden something comes straight up the middle and catches the bottom of your chin. For sure. I like that side kick to the body, to the liver, throwing that heel in the liver. I think that's more of a natural motion, but I have been working with the front kicks. I like them a lot, especially with the weight on the back leg a little bit, and especially with these calf kicks, people are really trying to bear down and throw the calf kick hard. That's what was going to be my technique in my last one, was when that calf kick comes off the very beginning, because that's what Furia does.

53:13He comes out, he looks for his distance, and he bases down, he throws that calf kick almost every single time against every opponent and i was like you know especially because i was planning on going there one-handed and i was like i'm just gonna pull this front leg up front front kick to the face and it's gonna land it's gonna be beautiful but yeah i've started to work that like you you put all that weight on that back leg this one comes up fast and with the one i like better especially with the boxing as i come down here is uh kind of getting that lean forward and you're stepping back and then when people think your face is in range forward You just pull back and throw that one straight up the middle and you're talking about off the front leg from the back leg on this On the second one you're kind of basing out here And you're you're stepping back onto the to the back leg and when they open up like they're gonna throw something Oh, you lean back and throw it up the middle.

54:00Yeah, and so you're changing the distance there's people don't expect it for the calf Kick you're just light on the front leg and you throw it off the front leg. Are you sliding forward? Are you just picking it up and stabbing? I just pick it up and stab it because they got to close a little bit of distance to get that calf That one's, you know, the kick is a longer range, but that one you have to come a little bit closer for me to throw it appropriately. Some people smack it with the foot or whatever it is. I don't like that. I like that Dutch style, almost like a soccer kick. Just you're raising it straight up, and that shin bone is touching that soft calf.

54:31And so to do it that way, I get a little bit closer distance, but then that's where, you know, you set it up and all the other stuff. It'd be a little safer doing it that way. Yeah, the calf kick is interesting because a lot of guys are kind of just going straight up. Right. You know, like you ever see Yuki Oza fight? He's one of my favorite guys to watch fight. That's probably like the perfect example of throwing a very deliberate and technical calf kick is how he does it. He destroys people's legs, destroys them. And he's kicking up. He's kicking up all the time and there's no pivot and it's so fast.

55:06Oh, 100%. It's so fast and there's no tell, and he's throwing it in every combination. So he's hitting you with a jab. He's inside low-kicking you. The left hook, he's outside low-kicking you. Yeah, he's smacking you from all the different levels. Constantly. And taking out your base every time. Every time you're close enough, he's taking out your base. Every time. Every time. From all angles. I love watching this guy fight. He does that cool thing, too. Like what he just did. Check out that. Watch it. They gave him trouble for that because you're not supposed to do that in kickboxing. See how he does that?

55:33He hooks the guy's leg. So he throws like a half-speed kick. Back it up again so you can see that he throws like a half speed kick holds it and then trips him My dad was actually just talking about that one with me. That's a very clean technique But he is such a wild guy to watch because of the damage that he does to guys legs So this is what I love about the artistic aspect of it and the technical aspect when people figure out Okay, what do you do when you're fighting a guy like this? Well, Jonathan Haggerty figured it out. It's constant switch stances constant knees to the body moving, jabbing, constant movement you never let him get set up for those and he took a lot of leg kicks but he landed way more than he took and he won the decision against Yoza it was a big win, but it was also like a blueprint, like if people got to see that fight, they see it, see you can find that fight Jonathan Haggerty and Yuki Yoza he did a really good job of picking that front leg up and that's, going back to MMA is something that it's still developing but I don't see a lot of guys defend the calf kick Like, I see a lot of guys willingly eat them.

56:36Yes. And it's like you do that with the shin guards on, you could probably spar all day and take calf kicks, you know? Sort of. If they're landing clean, like really clean, yeah, you're going to feel it. Yeah. But for the most part, you pick the leg up, you pull it back a little bit. It doesn't land super flush. You could take it with shin guards on. You take one good one with no shin guards on, it's a completely different game. It takes, you know, you're that leg away from you. This episode is brought to you by Superpower. Your doctor spends eight minutes with you and your insurance decides what blood work you get.

57:06That's not health care. It's a broken system. With Superpower, you take control. It starts by testing over 150 biomarkers. But what really sets Superpower apart from other blood testing companies is what comes next. They connect your blood work with real-time, wearable data, health history, and genetics to uncover patterns others miss and deliver personalized guidance you can't get anywhere else. This is healthcare built for individuals, not institutions. Go to superpower.com slash Rogan to save$50 on your membership. Yeah, so look how Jonathan is never stationary, constantly switching stances.

57:46Look, I mean literally constantly and constant movement. And then when you're thinking about the legs, the jab, the step forward knee, everything is constant movement. There's never a chance for Yoza to set up a nice spinning back kick to the body there. That's so close, too. I know. He's wicked, man. This dude's wicked. But Haggerty figured him out, man. Look at that. Outside low kick on a hop. I mean, in constant stance switches and that switch knee to the body. Look, Yoza's looking for those, man. You can only take so many of them from this guy, too. He's got fucking stones for shins. Yeah.

58:19Yeah, you got no nerve endings. Anything below the knees. It's really incredible, man. Watching this fight is a real master class in striking. And this is one thing that I always give credit to one for. I think one has the absolute best strikers when it comes to just pure striking. Right. And the exciting guys that they have over there. Azadula Iman Gazalia. Have you seen that guy fight? Yeah. He's my favorite. I fucking love watching that guy fight. Yeah. It's like, Jesus Christ, he's good. And one of the guys that he trains with just fought in the PFL, Megamedov. Did you see that fight? No. I forget how to say his name.

58:58It's like, I think it's Abu or I forget his name. But he put on a master class in striking. And he looked just like Azadul Imam Ghazaliya, like the way he was fighting, like that style. Long, tall striker. And these Dagestan guys, man. Dagestan's got elite Muay Thai, too. That's it's crazy. Yeah, that's a dude Amru Amru Magomedov well speaking of that show me a little bit of that because this cat he fights just like Asadullah like very similar and I know they're from the same place you talk about artistic. That's like the beat Shari pop is another one yes Yeah, he and he was kind of the first of those guys that you go.

59:39Oh, I think of these guys as wrestlers Yeah, but look at this guy. He's throwing 360 roundhouse kicks and wheel kick. He was doing like yeah I don't know not kung fu but one of those practices before he was ever yes Yeah, it was like sand shoe or something, huh? But you watch this cat fight. He fights just like a Azadula He's got that long reach Slick striking wicked kicks. He throws a lot of high kicks And that dude Alvarez that he's fighting was tough as shit, dude, because he took a lot before he finally wilted. You could see he was hurting from the leg kicks already before that. Oh, he's getting destroyed.

1:00:18This cat's vicious. Being a long guy like that is just so much more beneficial. That's why everybody thinks it's all these big muscle heads, like the OG UFC. That's the fighter build. The guy on top of the world. Yeah. It's the tall, long, skinny guy that can strike well. like that's the perfect like mma build yeah because they can strike you from six inches away from where you can strike them that's a crazy advantage yeah that's a back to the where it was with ty on thursday whatever it was and he's like i want to say he said 78 inch reach wow he's like he's like i have a 78 inch reach he's like so i can touch you guys from this and that and he's southpaw and blah blah blah but i'm like well yeah like that's like a light heavyweight reach yeah it's like well no dude they both of those guys have crazy long yeah it's ridiculous real long arms real long legs perfect for triangles perfect for for any kind of darts right guillotines anything rear nakeds rear naked with an arm in yeah and then you fight southpaw like this it's like you could touch from a million miles away that's what me i'm the opposite my whole style is all the way out or all the way in i i gotta get in and get to work in there you know and and there's something to be said about that too because those two styles cancel each other out if you have a long guy he's not going to fight as well on the inside it's not saying that he can't especially with the muay thai the way they clinch is actually very efficient and and with the boxing stuff opening stuff up and being able to get your your longer limbs in there is is perfectly viable as well it's just you got to play off of your of you know your god-given talents and your assets and so the shorter guy is going to negate the long guy by getting inside and if the long guy can maintain the distance and keep him there, then he's going to win that all the time.

1:02:02Yeah, there's benefits to all body types. It's just knowing what to do with that body type. Like, look, Mike Tyson is arguably the greatest heavyweight of all time. He's in the conversation with Ali and Joe Lewis. There's a few guys that you could put into that category as the greatest heavyweight of all time. And I think Mike Tyson certainly in his prime was right there. Yeah. You know, Lennox Lewis, you got to put Lennox Lewis in that conversation. Even primetime Larry Holmes, you got to put him in that conversation. But Mike Tyson was 5 '11", you know, as a heavyweight. That's crazy. And he was only like 215, 220 in his prime.

1:02:41But that bombing and weaving and constant movement, he would just overwhelm guys. You see the tall guys putting their hands out. They were just dealing with this fucking Wolverine that was running towards them. Yeah, and I had just seen something from him or read a quote, and he said it wasn't my physicality that was my greatest asset. It was my elusiveness. It was that I was so elusive that I could get in and I could get to work, you know? Yes. And a lot of people, unless you're like a real practitioner or, you know, a student of the sport, they don't see that. They just see the bombs coming, and they attribute that to he's got punching power, he's this monster.

1:03:21but there's just so much more intricate, you know. It's like you said about Anderson, like this is an art form. This is a game of setting things up. It's a chess match, you know. Everybody looks at it like it's checkers, but there's so many more moves that could be made and that need to be made to be the best at this. And you really want to be appreciated by the people that understand that. You don't want to be the guy that gives in to the howls and the cheers of the casuals. the real feeling, the good feeling that fighters get is when someone is a true student of the game who really understands what they do.

1:03:56Like, I love when you're doing this. I love that thing you do when you do it. That's what guys want to hear. They want to hear from their fellow fighters. Like when an elite fighter goes up to another elite fighter, it's like, bro, I fucking love what you're doing. You can see they're like, thank you. It hits different. It means more. when you know that a guy is really operating at a very high level. Right. Yeah, because the rest of the people have never stepped room into even a gym to spar or, like, go a couple rounds of grappling, you know? So it's— Oftentimes they don't know what they're seeing.

1:04:29They have no understanding. Sometimes they think when the guy's missing it's because he sucks. You know what is funny is that even I have had that realization because, like, growing up it was like me and my pops watching UFC, and to me, you know, that was my thing. But I would always sit there and go, well, why doesn't this guy do this? It's right there. Just do that. It's right there. It's like, dude, you're not standing in a cage surrounded by thousands of people. You don't have the same fatigue. You don't know injuries you're going into with it. You don't know what you practiced leading up to it that you even have the capacity to think about and to act on.

1:05:02It's like there's just so many things. So, like, I watch stuff now, and I'm so much better at that because I'm sitting there going, he could do that, but I don't know what he's seeing. You know, I don't know what's going on in his mind. So, yeah, there's different levels to it. Yeah, for sure. It's I mean, it's a very complex game. It really is. I wanted to ask you a question Do you think that it was a benefit for you to lose your first two fights? Do you think there's maybe something to that because we were talking about your first two opponents in the UFC being undefeated until they fought you They had never experienced loss as a professional before and then they get on this crazy big hype thing And there's something about being undefeated as well, especially when you're a guy like Wellmaker who's not just undefeated but a knockout artist.

1:05:47Like people get really, really jazzed up and excited about that. Do you think that maybe having that bad feeling of loss earlier in your career maybe grounded you more? Yeah, certainly. I went 6-0 undefeated as an amateur. But I can tell you at that time I was not living a fighter's lifestyle to the fullest. you know at that time i would literally go to practice in the morning and then i had to go to work at night or whatever but i was like man fighting's the best you just go wake up practice once you get to kick it the whole rest of the day you get to go fight and make all this money and live your dream if that's all it takes this is cool and all and i'm winning all these amateur scene fights which that's what the amateurs are for for learning and getting your experience but But, yeah, it really showed me that there was change that needed to be made in what I did with fighting and what I did outside of fighting.

1:06:45And outside of fighting was arguably more important. There was a lot that I needed to change, a lot that I needed to refocus on and make right by. And it wasn't until I did those things that I saw this drastic change. It wasn't until I erased all the negatives and then filled it with all the positives that I'm able to be on a 10-fight win streak doing what I'm doing now because who knows? I mean maybe I would have changed that, but I don't think it would have been as drastic if I hadn't experienced those two losses the way I did. So before those two losses, your first two professional fights, were you kind of fucking off?

1:07:28Yeah, for sure. Yeah? What were you doing? Just everything. I mean, partying, smoking, drinking, being a delinquent, being not the best partner. How old were you back then? I came back from college in 2017. I tore my meniscus in a dual meet, and then my coach was— Same knee? My right knee. Different knee. Coach was an asshole about it. I snapped, crackle, popped all the way through the rest of the season. It wasn't until after I got checked. Coach was an asshole about it in what way? Like, you didn't want to admit that you were— He just ignored it, like, completely. He just pretty much told me suck it up.

1:08:03Oh, what a great coach. Yeah, exactly. That's why I didn't go back. I mean, it was a lot of things. I was in Bristol, Tennessee, so it's like there's not a whole lot to do out there coming from SoCal. So that was a culture shock. I was on my own for the very first time. And then, yeah, I got hurt. So then I started, I don't know, everybody else is out there partying and stuff. I never partied. I grew up very religious. I was very strict. All throughout high school, I didn't touch anything. I didn't look anything. I didn't want to partake in anything. I just wrestled. My only drug was wrestling back then.

1:08:36That's all I did. And I had a lot of success then. And it wasn't until I deviated from that course and I started finding fun or enjoyment or just maybe just trying to fill time and numb some of the things that I was thinking about or worrying about or like that wrestling thing. It might not have been the biggest thing to people, but for me, that was my first time experiencing where I had just placed eighth in California State. I was fifth at the national tournament. I was just doing everything right. I had won the U.S. Open for my age division, and then I go to this, and I'm on my own for the first time, and I have all this adversity.

1:09:14And it's just like, I don't know. I just felt like, why is this happening to me? I felt like I had been abandoned at that point. And maybe other people would have recovered from it better, but that was a first-time experience for me. So, but yeah, I was barely 19 years old around that time. I think I probably started fighting around, in the amateurs, around 20. So I was relatively young, but— So that's when you started partying. I was—as soon as I tore my meniscus, I finished out the wrestling season. And then I remember, like, even school, like, slouched off. Like, I wasn't really caring about school too much.

1:09:48We had finals. I didn't really even try too hard. And then I went, I remember that day was as soon as the last final was done, we all went to the, my buddy's house. And that's the first time I ever got drunk, like ever. And so, and it's not to say that those things are like the end of the world if, if you're controlling them. But I certainly wasn't, you know, I had like a lot of compounding things being first time and, uh, that carried over. It was like that all the way up until, yeah. Yeah, it was after that second loss. I was probably still not doing what I needed to be doing to be a disciplined athlete, a respectable, just like, you know, good person, really.

1:10:30I wasn't being a good person. And, yeah, there was a lot of change, a lot of growth. You know, I had a lot of people guide me back into that. and as soon as I made those changes, yeah, now I'm here having been able to live and experience it because that's the best teacher out of all of them. You can go and watch a YouTube video on how to do something, right, like fix a car. Oh, I know exactly where the alternator is. I know where this pump is. I know how this connects to this. Then the second you open it up, it's like, okay, well, I didn't know I needed this tool, and wow, this is way harder to pull off, and it's the experience.

1:11:07It's the hardship and experience that teaches you things. So 100%. If I hadn't gone through that, who knows where I'd be and what I'd be doing right now. When you hurt your knee in college, was that the first time you'd ever done where you had an injury where it completely compromised your ability to perform? Where you realized, like, oh, my body's very vulnerable? So I had actually sprained my ankle. It's called the OC Duels. It's like the number one and number two in Orange County face-off. And I had tore up my ankle pretty good. And I was going into league and then CIF and all that stuff. And I had almost worried that I wouldn't be able to wrestle, which is a big thing.

1:11:51Luckily, I was able to wrestle on that. But yes, I guess the meniscus was probably the first time where it really took me out of my game like that. And to me, it was more of a – I don't know if it was a vulnerability of the body. Like I had come to terms with that. I understood that.

1:12:13I don't know. Maybe I thought there was a higher power protecting me, and at that moment I was no longer protected, and I had been abandoned. And that's kind of what got to me, honestly, is I thought God had abandoned me essentially at that time. Really? You didn't think maybe God – did you even consider that it was a challenge? I can look back on it and say with certainty that it is. You were young. I was young, and that's why I said I clouded my mind with a bunch of other things. And instead of focused on it and thinking about it clearly, I just moved farther away from the issue. So at that time, that's what I thought.

1:12:49Now, being a mature man, having grown my relationship with God, having read and studied and understanding that, like I said, that those hardships are what build us. That's what tests our faith and what really brings us closer to God. And now I see that it wasn't as big as I had made it, you know, but I learned and maybe falling farther down the path taught me even more. Yeah, I think it does. I think failing is actually a very good teacher. I really do. I think in all aspects of your life. And especially when you're a young person, you have this idea of who you are. Having that get knocked down where you have to rebuild is very important.

1:13:29Because once you rebuild and you realize like, okay, now I know what I'm capable of. Now I know that there's going to be ups and downs, but I must maintain the path. Right. Did you have to get your knee fixed? Did you have to do anything to it? Yeah, they did a scope on it. So they shaved the part that was hanging away, which to me, I wish I had never done. Yeah. Because that knee has given me issues to today. like any of this inversion like a triangle choke with the right leg going over that meniscus it was my lateral meniscus outside it rolls over and it catches so then i gotta bring my leg straight and pop it back into place and uh it's gotten better you know i i get through it quicker these days but they tell you to not even get that surgery now well so that my my second professional fight where I got ankle locked I got uh I think it was like an outside reap and I went to sit up to to grab it and he had the position locked and my knee just went like eight times in my ear real bad and it was in the same exact spot that lateral meniscus the outer which uh I don't know what what other ligament is on the outside there but uh to me it was like exactly where the the meniscus on the right leg had happened but i grabbed up or sat up i grabbed his arms i kept trying to fight through it and then he switched it over to the to the heel hook on the other side my ankle popped twice as i rolled and i finally tapped then but i didn't i didn't even get an mri on that one i tried to it took so long that i was doing the knees over toes and strengthening and i was starting to move on it that by the time they're like okay we can get your mri in a week i'm like dude i'm already moving and exercising and doing stuff on this like i was cool but yeah i never did anything with that and that knee's really never given me any issues and then the one i got the scope on still bothers me to today yeah they don't recommend that anymore because they did a study of people that have had meniscus surgery versus not not having meniscus surgery and just rehabilitation and it shows that rehabilitation seems to be the better path yeah i mean especially for like these i have one that's been scoped and it bothers me all the time that's the one i got shot up today okay it always bothers me it's like there's missing padding on one side of it it's missing but i had a bucket handle tear and in jujitsu it would lock and my leg would be stuffed like stiff and i could i have to like push it back into place it was excruciating it was like stuck locked out yeah yeah yeah it would go back eventually but it would take sometimes it'd take a day before and it would swell up you know but if i knew first of all this is a long time ago unfortunately there was no stem cells available back then right i would have 100 just done stem cells and now would have done the knees over toes stuff and a lot of cycling like stationary box bike cycling at not high resistance is a fairly low resistance is just repetitive motion it's really good for getting the blood flow to the knees and really good for strengthening up the tendons and the ligaments and everything but without load you know it's just you do it at like a very low resistance and just for a long time right and that's really good for your knees sweet yeah i mean there's there's so many things like i think even like leg extensions would probably be like a good little exercise for the knees i mean it's a pretty deliberate spot i think you know like backpacking i think i think like a controlled version of that because there's a lot of times you know you're dropping down like pretty heavily this and that which is probably not the best yeah yeah but if you were doing it like because that's kind of the knees over toes is he's doing some similar motions if you had some maybe not as much weight some weight on your back you could slowly kind of find that and then have a soft landing like right i don't know i was backpacking recently and i was just thinking about this like like in a controlled setting like in a gym like on a machine that i'm like maybe not as much as like a steep incline or decline like something like that would be really good and then the range of motion stuff is i've had you know with with my injury and stuff and time to step away i've had like a lot of opportunity to think and I feel like I've grown tremendously and it's like, yeah, all the little tiny things, like the knees, like they're fine.

1:17:36Like I do it. I really don't have an issue too much. Like maybe if I get into that position, it'll do it. But it's like, you know, what happens when I do get into like a position, let's say a leg lock position, for example, or like a straight knee bar. And, you know, what if my flexibility is an issue there or just simply like a wizard position where the knee is getting popped up, Like just any, there's a million and one positions that the knees could be compromised there. And so, yeah, it's going back, doing a lot of range of motion stuff, a lot of strengthening on the knees. Do you do Poliquin step downs?

1:18:09Do you know those? No. Charles Poliquin, seeing if you find Poliquin, it's very simple. You're essentially doing it, either you're doing it from an incline board with like a little bit of elevation, or you're just doing it from a straight up step. And what you're doing is you're just lowering yourself down. So one foot is above on the step and the other foot You're lower like that like there. There you go. He's doing it on plates. Very simple Very simple, right? I mean you're literally only going like 10 inches But you're going up and down like that and it's just controlling the body weight like that Phenomenal for knee strengthening and for knee stability.

1:18:48It's excellent. It's one of the best exercises Sweet. You're doing backwards pulls with, like, either a sled or on a treadmill? Do you walk backwards doing that? I'm not doing, like, really any exercises, weight and, like, I mean, I do little things, but for strength and conditioning after boxing, but I stay away from the weights. But it's not even for the weights I'm talking about. I mean, you do it on a treadmill. Okay. You do it on a treadmill, just basically keep the treadmill off, and just with your own resistance, you step backwards. Okay. So you put your back to the screen and hold on to the bars, and you're basically just pushing with your legs going backwards.

1:19:26And it's really good for strengthening your knees and also for blood flow. That's a knees over toes guy thing. His page is phenomenal. I'll go to the 24-hour fitness and burn out their treadmill. Yeah, yeah. You can do that, or you could use a sled. We do it with a sled here. You put the sled, you put like a waist strap, and you just back up and pull the sled. It doesn't have to be a lot of weight. It's not a weight thing. It's really just a circulation thing. and a strengthening thing. He has another one that you get the band around your back, and then you're kind of – I forgot how he did it.

1:20:00You're essentially like leaned over and then straightening the leg. You're like in a lunge, I guess, actually. You're in a lunge. The knee goes over the toes. You have the resistance on the back, and then you're pushing and essentially doing the same thing as probably walking back with the sled. The band is attached in the front or behind you? It's attached in the front. Oh, I see. The distance is pulling you forward. Okay. And you're lunged over the knee, the knee over the toe, and then you're extending that leg, and it's just hitting that knee perfectly. It's very similar to the one you're talking about, I'm sure.

1:20:30Yeah, because so much time you spend pushing forward, and not a lot of people spend much time pushing backwards. But pushing backwards is really important. Right. It's really important to just have overall knee strength. Right. I think the side-to-side stuff, too, is like I was almost like let me get in the sand. and I do a lot of like working out in the sand just for the boxing for the for the footwork and being able to stay in a stance but like that little like side explosion stuff would probably start strengthening those those muscles on the side and the ligaments going that way and then I'm trying to think like you know how do you get that that motion I mean you could get a band and probably like do kind of like a lateral extension or pull it up into your like an inward extension You know who used to do a lot of weird shit with bands?

1:21:15BJ Penn. Oh, yeah. He did a lot of weird shit in his prime with flexibility stuff and developing strength from weird positions with bands. Yeah. I see – I don't know if BJ was a part of that program, but like the Rafael Dos Anjos, all the fascia kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Rafael Dos Anjos was training with Nick Kurson. Nick Kurson was a student of Marv Marinovich. Okay. And Marv Marinovich is the guy who trained BJ when he was in his prime. When he really got super serious about cardio. But it's a very controversial approach. The Marinovich's approach was you already know how to fight. So forget about fight training.

1:21:56We're just going to give you the most fucking insane gas tank you've ever had. And that way you'll be able to execute everything you want. And so the primary focus was just plyometrics and their conditioning program. And it was hell. And BJ did not like going through it. But when he went through it, he was like unstoppable because he just never gassed. Right. And that's the interesting thing about conditioning in general is we have these ideas of what the threshold is, like what a human body is capable of doing for five minutes for three rounds or five rounds, like in terms of what kind of pace that you could put up.

1:22:30And then you have certain guys that come along that sort of redefine what the threshold is, like Marab. Rob comes along and here you got some guy whose gas tank is fucking superhuman and he makes the best fighters in the world just wilt under this constant pressure being taken down. And his strength and his skill as a wrestler is just this constant attack, constant, constant, constant, constant. And you wonder, like, okay, how long did it take to build up that reserve? How long did it take to build up that gas tank? That's not something you can achieve in just one camp. Right. Like that's something that takes literally years to develop.

1:23:09Oh, for sure. That's why, I mean, like I said, going back to wrestling, my, what I would say my superpower, my most utilized skill set was my cardio, my gas tank, you know. And I don't know, what is it, anabolic versus anaerobic? Like the striking versus the grappling cardio? Mm-hmm. I think there's something to be said about that wrestling cardio. Like just that like strict, you're just grinding it out 24-7. You know, you're always colliding. Your muscles are always tensed up. I think there's something to be said about that, that if you had great wrestling cardio, you could do almost anything in the world.

1:23:47Yeah, it builds up a foundation that's kind of unstoppable. Right. If you can maintain that kind of work ethic. Right. Because it's insane. That's the other thing about it. It's the mental toughness that comes from wrestling. Right. When a guy has an elite wrestling background and he enters into the UFC, I always say they have an advantage. They have an advantage over everybody else because whether or not you choose to put yourself or you get coached by someone who puts you through hell in camp, with wrestling you don't have a choice. Everyone's going through hell. There's no easy path to get on a fucking wrestling team anywhere in the country.

1:24:22You have to wrestle for your position. It's literal. You've got to battle for that spot. And then the practice is once or twice a day of just purely grinding it out. Staying in a wrestling stance alone is extremely tough to do. Now you're doing it at elevated pace. Now you're doing it with someone snapping on your head. And then you go and you do live wrestling and then finish it up with sprints. Yeah, to me there's nothing that beats that. And I think the style of it is like go, go, go. Even jiu-jitsu, you're finding places to rest. you know you can throw on in the guard and and you can you can rest in certain entanglements striking is all about being able to have an explosive motion and then find your way to to be defensive to slow down what they're doing you're either you're getting in stuffing it you're at a distance where you can be a little bit relaxed because it can't reach you or you know you're you're moving off making the miss where there's no resistance there you know i just with wrestling you don't have any of that there's there's no chance for a break especially if you got someone like Rob who's just on you 24-7.

1:25:28And so to me that's, you know, back to the cardio thing we talked about earlier. I don't know. I think if you got, yeah, elite wrestling cardio, then you could do all the rest of it. You'd be able to strike. You'd be able to do the jujitsu entanglements. Like you can hang for that duration of time with great cardio. It's also if you can figure out how to be a great wrestler, you can kind of figure out anything. It's just a matter of taking that same focus that turned you into a great wrestler and applying it to whatever it is MMA whatever whatever else you're trying to do Because if you're willing to go through what it took to become a great wrestler, that's an extraordinary human That's very few people ever reach a very high level of wrestling.

1:26:07It's just too fucking hard Yeah, and it's the best Foundation for combat sports for sure for MMA Because if you could take a guy down and he can't take you down that's a massive advantage right massive You dictate where the fight takes place. And if you develop elite striking on top of that, it's a perfect combination. Oh, for sure. I mean, anybody asking me personally, I would say get a wrestling background, get some boxing. You can figure out the rest of it. You can figure out how to check kicks, block kicks. You can do the rest of it. But if you have those two fundamental core bases, yeah, you're pretty good against most people.

1:26:42I would say that too. But I would say another thing is, and this is very controversial. If I was teaching a young kid, I would say get into point karate Learn point karate because if you could learn how to move the way those guys move the things that those guys when you see like Michael Venom page just stump people right they're just stumped like I don't have any like Kevin Holland who is Fights everybody he's fucking competitive with everybody he fights with MVP. He was just stumped like what am I gonna? What the fuck am I doing? I can't even touch this guy right that is a giant skill set and i always said before mvp came onto the scene i'm like one of these guys one of these really elite point fighter guys is going to come in and start fucking everybody up because you can't hit them yeah yeah and that goes back like him and like wonder boy are both the prime examples of a karate style individual yes um and they're really long so you know they can utilize that a little bit to their advantage with that that lungy in and out but to be honest yeah that's something that like i've wanted to delve into a little bit more with myself because i like i can throw kicks really well honestly i have i have good flexibility i have the ability to throw them with speed with power um but having something like that where you can throw it nice and fast and snappy those little sidekicks and the way that they throw the kicks is great yes i mean the only other relation i would have to that is the the savate style i like the way the savate style guys throw their kicks.

1:28:10I'm not very familiar with Savat. The only thing that I don't utilize myself is a lot of the toe stuff because I'm not wearing shoes. Oh, like toe kicks to the body? They're like stabbing you with their toes. Like everything. Like they'll even, they're even kicking like your leg. Well, you know, Yoza does that. Yeah. He stabs guys in the body with his toes. It's like the ball of his foot, right? Well, he's going in with the toes, man. Yeah. There's a lot of like slow-mo videos of him stabbing guys in the liver with his fucking toes. You know who else is really good? They're conditioning their toes.

1:28:39Yeah, well, that's the thing is you better have some – you probably have multiple breaks on each toe leading up to that. Yeah, 100%. Because it's just – that's why we were talking about the front kick. To the body is good if you do it like a traditional Muay Thai where you're going up and out, which is fantastic. You can produce a lot of speed and power. But I think everybody does this kind of shovel up toes into the body kick nowadays in the MMA world. That's what I see more so. I mean, Conor utilized the heck out of that. But most guys bring the toes up. And you better be very precise with that because all it takes is one elbow blocking down and your toes out.

1:29:18Did you see Rodriguez's toes after he fought Fluffy? Yeah. Did you see that picture? Jamie, pull that picture up. It's off Gregory Rodriguez's Instagram page. After he beat Fluffy, he showed a photo. You haven't seen it? I haven't seen it actually. Oh, you're going to cringe. It's hell. Is it like a John Jones break? Worse. Ugh, bones are sticking out. The bones aren't sticking out, but it's hellacious. You look at what happened to his toes. Dude, that one, like, that takes it out of you. You start smashing your toes like that, and you've got to continue fighting. Oh, yeah. Or you've got to continue in a fight camp with, like, broken toes.

1:29:53Yeah. Yeah. That's one of my wrestling camps. I was chasing my brother in the front yard the day before, and his heel came back, and my pinky toe was like this, straight sideways. Went to the family doctor. Look at that. Oh, yeah. I have a picture just like that, actually, with my fingers, my toes thrown west side. Oh, look at that. Jesus. Ow! Yeah, that's terrible. Those feet have seen some elbows, son. Right. It's got a big old bunions and everything on there. Wow. Yeah, that's tough. And he won. He did it in really good fashion, too. Yeah. There's a guy that's just, I don't understand how he makes 185.

1:30:33Right. I don't understand it. But whenever I interview him, I'm like, you're 220 pounds, sir. Yeah. How are you? You're at least 220 and shredded. I know. I mean, it's like I guess the bigger guys have a little bit more to lose. They probably float a little bit. A lot of that muscle, you have water to lose for sure. Right. If you're shredded, I mean, that's one thing to be said. But especially like heavyweights, like the Alex Paredes, I'm sure he gets a little bit looser, goes up to 220. But that's still 40 pounds. I mean, that's a lot of weight. Yeah, it's a lot of weight to lose. But I don't know.

1:31:09I mean, look at Aljo cutting to 135. Yeah. He's like 175 pounds. Yeah. You know? But he doesn't do it anymore, and he feels way better at 45. For sure. And he had to move up because of that. I think a lot of the Bantamweights get up to relatively that weight. I think everybody, I think that's why I've started seeing people try to comment the whole weight bully thing. They've said it to me on Instagram, this and that. They saw one of my training pictures where I was a little loose. And they're like, the funniest comment was someone was like, hire a nutritionist ASAP. And I was just cracking up at that.

1:31:48These guys are roasting me. But yeah, I think everybody cuts relatively the same amount of weight. How big do you get? What's the heaviest you get in between? 135. No. That's what you weigh, son. What do you weigh when you thicken up? What's the heaviest you've ever been? Like 175 is probably give or take. Maybe like 178 if I'm just full of food, eating and being a delinquent. But, yeah, I get up there pretty big. But when you're in camp, like the week before, what do you like to be at? I've had all my cuts right around 150. I don't really get much lower than that. That's not too bad. It's not the end of the world.

1:32:24I mean 149, 148, 145 would be beautiful if I could just do 10. It would be no problem. But this last time we did 11 in one night, and it was smooth sailing. That's another thing. You experience it more, you get better and better at it. And I've gotten wiser that the sauna doesn't have to be a million and ten degrees. Like the USC portable saunas, I think I maxed out at 150, it said. and i could sit in that for 22 is that a red light sauna the portable ones probably is right probably is i don't recall but i'm sure it is but that with the emergency blankets and then cooling off in between that's something that i had to get wiser too as well you know like because everybody tries to tell you you're already there you're already sweating like don't don't lose the heat and it's like no dude this isn't a sprint this is a marathon We're taking this nice and easy.

1:33:19So like this last time I was taking all my gear off, putting ice on the body, cooling the body temperature back down, which is arguably the most important aspect of the whole weight cut is the body temperature versus the dehydration. Because the body gets dehydrated and it has more of a capacity to deal with that than it does to overheat. If you overheat, you're done for. Like that's – it is what it is. So is the overheating – does that drain you more in terms of like your ability to recover for the next day? Like, so when you're cutting weight, if you're doing it at like 180 or something like that, something high.

1:33:52And is it that, like, because it does wear you out, obviously. Like, if I do a sauna session for 20 minutes when I get out, I'm tired. Yeah. So you've got to think, if you're doing multiple ones of those, if you're trying to make weight, and then you have to fight the next day, you went through a lot physically. Right. As opposed to what you're doing, if you got it at 150, it's not that bad. It just sucks a little. Yeah, because I've done both. like and and that's you're throwing a sauna suit on as well you know the sweet sweat the sauna suit and then you get in that that portable sauna but it's like before i was i was doing that with a pair of of i don't know like uh spandex you know like top and bottom and then a jacket and then sweats and then a big jacket and then i'm getting in the 180 190 degree 24 hour sauna and sitting there for 15 minutes it's like it's like dude yeah i felt there's there's been weight cuts where i just feel like a like terrible atrocious i look terrible you know and then i have some of these more recent ones where i i lower the temperature down i extend the duration of of how long the weight cut is itself and there's there's a major difference in it for sure that's really good advice work smarter not harder oh dude you've trained for two months over just pushing your body to the absolute limit you're gonna go fight somebody for 15 minutes you know possibly 25 minutes.

1:35:11There's all this hard stuff already happening. That part should not be hard. It's going to be hard, but you should make it as easy as possible. That should be the mindset to it. Yeah, it makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. Did you see the Moses Itama fight this weekend? I don't think so. Do you know who he is, right? No. No? Okay. He, up until this fight, was probably the most promising prospect in the heavyweight division in more than a decade. He is a young guy. He's only 21 years old. And people were talking about him being able to break Mike Tyson's record of being the youngest ever heavyweight champion.

1:35:49So he missed that mark. And then he finally got a title fight this weekend. Looked phenomenal for the first few rounds. Oh, oh, oh. I know exactly what you're talking about. Yes. And he was fighting this big Croatian cat. I forget his name. Yeah, yeah. uh philip hergrozovic and uh he couldn't stunt on him at first yeah at the beginning he was tuning this guy up i mean he's so fast and so elite but he had never been into deep water before every one of his fights he'd been able to stop people and he hadn't had any like real good decision wins where he fought a bit and he's not the biggest heavyweight but he's wicked fast i I mean, just wicked fast and beautiful technique.

1:36:34But as the fight went on, he started to fade. And in the eighth, you could see him, like, really slowing down and just really trying to take this dude out but couldn't. And thought he could. It was empty in the gas tank. Instead of boxing him and just outpointing him and being skillful, he just was inexperienced. And he emptied the gas tank. And then Philip came back, man. Yeah, and he finished him. Yeah. Well, he finished him in a weird way. It was almost exhaustion. Yeah, he was just stumbling over him at that point. Because they're both exhausted because it was a war. There's a nice right hand, and he stung him there.

1:37:10Well, did you see their little table talk where they're sitting across from each other? Yes. And he's all like, it's not about how many times you can get hit or you can hit somebody. It's about how many times you can get hit and keep coming forward. Yeah. And then Moises is like, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. He's like, why would you base your fighting style off how many times you can get hit? and then lo and behold, this comes across. That's why I talk about technicality and finesse and skill set and it's a game of hit and don't get hit. But, dude, you could just have someone who's just so tough and just so willing that this is a perfect scenario.

1:37:47That's why there are so many aspects to this fight game. Well, it was really funny because he was basically quoting Rocky. Yeah. He really did quote Rocky. It ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit. and keep moving forward. Exactly. And he, you know. And he pulled a Rocky on him. He literally did exactly what he said he was going to do. But it's all these things. It's like youth and hubris and thinking you're the greatest of all time and looked like the greatest of all time. Pull up a Moses Itama highlight reel. Because if you look at his highlight reel, you're like, this guy is the second coming.

1:38:19Like this guy is something really special, man. When you watch how he fights, I mean, his hand speed, his knockout power, and for a young guy, you know, this fight, I think he was 20, and you look at his highlight reel, you're like, oh, my God, the sky's the limit for this kid. He's just putting everybody out. But, you know, he wasn't really being tested, you know, and then he finally, I think, was it Derek Chisora? Who did he fight before this fight? He finally beat a top-level guy, and he took him out. And so, but, you know, it was a guy who's a real veteran, been around a long time. And he kind of thought that he could put it on everybody and knock everybody out.

1:39:04But, you know, this is like one of the things about any combat sport is you have to know when to hit the gas, when not to. And you have to have those experiences of these long, grueling fights. And he really didn't have that yet. So his first experience with a, yeah, Dillian White, that's who it was. And his long, his first experience with a real, no, it was Chisora, I think. Because I think it was Dillian White first, and then Chisora was the next fight afterwards. Am I right about that? No, it's just his KOs on this video. What is it, blow up his record. Who was his last fight before Hergovich?

1:39:45But, I mean, I still think he's got potential to be a world champion for sure. I mean, the kid's only 21 years old. jermaine franklin dillian white right there that's it was it wasn't derek jasore it was dillian white um jermaine franklin was right after that so every fight has been tko tko tko tko tko tko i mean if you watch his fights i mean they're fucking stunning performances but wasn't really being tested in that way with a really big, durable heavyweight who could take a shot, who has a ton of experience. And now he's got his first loss, but he'll be back. He's only 21. Well, that's how they do it in boxing.

1:40:33They feed these guys, build them up, and then when they're solidified, now you fight somebody who's substantial. you know um and that's you know i've done a lot of comparisons but that's to me where the mma guys are just more down to go and do their thing they'll fight anybody at any given time pretty pretty quick decision though or is that by necessity because the ufc you know if they call you up and say hey uh in four weeks do you want to fight for the world title i know you've never fought in the ufc before but that's in boxing that's unheard of That would never take place. But in the UFC, if you're a pretty good fighter and you're doing well and you win a bunch of championships in other organizations and all of a sudden this opportunity arises, we've had guys with their first fight in the UFC fight for the world title.

1:41:22That is true. I mean, that's what you get when you have a melting pot of things, though, because those guys are well-established in their own personal careers. in maybe wrestling or kickboxing or whatever it is or rising yeah it's not like you're pulling out like the local kid and telling him let's go fight for a world title i mean but they would put out pull out the local kid and fight a guy who has 10 15 fights in the ufc that does happen that happens all the time well that's what i'm saying is like i i i think that the boxers would be more hesitant to take something like that like you're saying but the mma guys are always down to do that kind of stuff.

1:42:00Well, the boxers, though... It's a different culture, I suppose. It is, but it's also the fact that no one gives a shit who the promoter is in boxing. If someone's going to watch Gervonta Davis fight, they don't say, well, who's promoting this? Hold on. Is this for Bob Arum? Is this for Golden Boy? Like, no one cares. It's just, who are the fighters? With the UFC, it's a very different animal. So, if you get a call for the UFC, like, oh my god, we're in the big leagues. Right. And that's different. 100%. They have all sorts of different promotions and different people you can fight for in boxing but UFC is is the pinnacle it's yeah if you get the call from the UFC that's where you want to go so there's there's a whole lot of differences to it I just think um whatever it is that yeah the MMA guys are are more willing to step in on their short notice and and put their careers at risk and put their you know what opportunities to to continue fight streaks or whatever at a risk so that's that's how I see it that's what I picked up from those two different things yeah it's definitely a different culture right it's a culture of accepting those risks and also of probably people that are just they're much more willing to take a chance it seems yeah exactly that's what i think like that's us a little bit more padded up a little bit more wild to be fighting the mma anyway that's yeah you know that's it's a little bit more wild for sure and that's that's a little bit uh more of a business I would say in my opinion the boxing the box yeah which we've got a lot of like very smart people involved in boxing that are like managers and trainers that are like really working to build a guy and turn him into a prospect turn him into a contender yeah and then turn him into a champion the UFC you only have the one organization doing that exactly they're managing all the weight classes and all the prospects and they're picking and choosing not only that it's in they schedule fight card, they schedule fights around cards.

1:43:57They don't schedule cards around fights. Right? So, like, say if Canelo Alvarez is fighting someone, it is, whenever Canelo's ready to fight, that's when the card takes place. Yeah. Right? So Canelo Alvarez wants to fight September 12th. Okay, great. September 12th, let's put together a fight card around Canelo Alvarez. Right. With the UFC, it's like, the UFC's coming to Salt Lake City October 3rd. Who's there? Right. Who wants a fight? Right. Like, we're going to have a fight. Who's going to be on the fight? Who's going to be on the card? and then you put the card together. So it's a different animal.

1:44:25Yeah. No, they're different for sure. I mean, I try to draw wisdom from all aspects of everything. So I'm constantly delving into all the different realms myself. Do you read a lot? Are you a guy who – do you like read any things on psychology or on warrior tactics? Do you ever get into like Book of Five Rings or any of that shit? For sure. I'm reading – it's called Hagakari right now. and it's essentially um it's a it's a single individual yamamoto it's like tunishi or something i forget his name exactly but um he served for like the the reigning leader at the time his leader passed away he wanted to commit seppuku because he was of that that mentality that warrior mentality but um his leader had had commanded like that no one was allowed to do that this and that but he's taken a lot of storylines inspirations from all these samurai because it's going into a time period where the samurai weren't a necessity anymore and so the ideology the lifestyle what it meant to to live that bushido lifestyle had changed a little bit and their purpose was different and uh my boxing coach gave it to me actually when i was kind of in this limbo state of like it's essentially saying how should a warrior live outside of the fight you know like Like what does he need to be doing on a daily basis?

1:45:51But then it's – I like the real life storyline because now you're getting a bunch of different perspectives from all these people that were samurai. All were warriors who lived that, who fought in battle. And now you get to see like a lot of different things. Like someone says you should do this and someone says no, don't do that. And to me, I like that because I get to kind of delve through all the mindsets and then apply what works best to me. you know but uh i love i love reading all that stuff i've not been so good at staying off the phone and and you know i watch a lot of youtube which is it's always fighting or some kind of gun channel or hiking or camping or hunting or spearfishing or something but um yeah i'm trying to get way better at that trying to stay off the screens like i want to be more interactive with the world around me, learning things constantly.

1:46:42And so picking up a book and reading it is along, along that set of goals that I have is continuously be doing that. Yeah. I think there's benefits to a lot of stuff on YouTube. I think YouTube is not social media. And I think I learn a lot on YouTube and I just get, it's for me, I like to wind down on YouTube, just watch some ancient history thing or watch a professional pool match or something like that. It's just a wind down time. But it doesn't feel like I'm wasting time. Whereas if I'm looking at Instagram or Twitter or whatever, it feels like I'm doing something I shouldn't be doing that's not beneficial.

1:47:18Oh, 100%. That's – to me as I'm building up my platform and whatnot, I understand it as a business. And so I understand there's some necessity for me to be into it, producing content, not necessarily taking in content. But, yeah, 100%. It's something that has affected our culture in a large way. It's all the – what's it called? Like the short-term media where you're clicking through it. It's just – it's killing our attention spans. It's just like your dopamine is firing at all times, going crazy. It just robs your focus. Yeah, you're getting this like – that's where I love the YouTube, but I almost have to recognize that just because I'm watching a spearfishing video doesn't mean I'm getting in the water and going and spearfishing.

1:48:09Because sometimes I feel like I get my fix a little bit by doing that, but then I have to remind myself it's like life is lived in your actions and in your experiences. So sitting and watching the TV screen, somebody else experienced that. You get the inside scoop. You get to kind of be there under the water, watch what's going on. But you're not actually living it. So I like it. I love to learn from that. Social media, yeah, it sucks. It's zapping everybody. It's certainly not a part of the warrior lifestyle as you were talking about. Oh, for sure. Samurai lives. Because then you want to think about your meditative aspects.

1:48:46Like how often are you delving deep into your own brain and just figuring out things about yourself and asking those questions and pushing beyond. And when you've got a phone screen stealing all your attention, how are you ever doing that? Right. Yeah, absolutely. You're not. You're not, you know, if you're spending so much time doing that. You're a spearfisher guy, huh? You really like spearfishing? I like to spearfish. It's been some time since I've been back in the water. I had a buddy that we used to go all the time, and then he moved up to Washington. And I don't know. Where are you guys spearfishing?

1:49:18We go local. Like, there's a Corona Del Mar beach, and then there's a smaller kind of hidden beach that you walk down. and it's got plenty of structure and all sorts of fish out there. Laguna's got the kelp forest. So I've just been going shore diving and going over there, grabbing lobster when it's lobster season, grabbing down to the honey holes and just grabbing them with our hands. So it's all the shore stuff right now. I haven't been off a boat. It's for my friends that have been hunting. They say they love it because they say it's like hunting underwater. Right. It's not really like fishing.

1:49:53You call it spearfitting, but it feels like you're hunting. It's, yeah, you're in the action, you know. You get to pick and choose which fish you're going to take, which one to let go. And, yeah, you're also, I like it because I like the primitive aspects. Like we talked about a little bit of bow hunting before. I'm really enthralled with the bow hunting stuff over the rifle hunt because, dude, you can sit at like three, four. Or sometimes guys are shooting about like 500 yards with this big old rifle, and you're just smacking something. It's like that thing didn't even like ever know you were there.

1:50:26You know, you're just like propped up, and there's a place for it, I suppose. But having a bow and have to get up 30-ish yards, give or take, and having to make sure they're not catching your scent and having to perform the stock. I like the primitive stuff. I like something that involves a skill set instead of just like a technological prowess. No, I agree with you. Obviously, I'm a big bow hunter. I don't think there's anything wrong with rifle hunting, and it's definitely the best way to acquire meat. If you're just going on a meat hunt and you just want to get your meat for the next few months, a rifle is the way to go.

1:51:01But if you want a real challenge, there's something that's way more special about a bow hunt. It's more difficult. It requires more practice. It requires more of you. like uh i went on a pig hunt um about a year or so ago with a friend of mine in california where we had had a successful elk hunt and then we went pig hunting and i hadn't shot a rifle in two years a year and a half two years like not one shot with a rifle aced this pig at like 90 yards like it was nothing boom dropped him in his tracks like that was so easy right and compare i mean all you have to do is get the crosshairs on them don't flinch squeeze the trigger slowly make sure you're in a good position yeah and know how to shoot a rifle and once you know how to shoot a rifle i mean i'm not taking thousand yard shots but yeah you know how to shoot a rifle it's pretty easy if i was bow hunting i wouldn't even imagine if i hadn't shot a bow in a year and a half of even thinking about shooting something with a bow right not a chance in hell i wouldn't even think about it for like months i would say i need to practice i need to hit targets all the time i need to make sure my shot is at i need to get my technique down i'd want to film myself make sure i'm not doing anything stupid like let me look at my form why why is my elbow to the right it should be above i would i would never imagine rifle's way easier but the feeling of taking an animal down with a bow is a completely different feeling it's so much harder to do it's so much more exciting and if you fail it doesn't you know i'm many a hunt where you seven days nothing happens okay that's just part of the thing right but at least you know we're out here getting after it and trying and you succeed or you fail but at least you're in nature and the experience of it is still really fun even if you're totally unsuccessful yeah no for sure i mean that's why with the spearfishing stuff like these free divers that can hold their breath up to four or five minutes you know and they're diving 40 50 60 70 feet some of these guys out there in the middle of the blue water and they're going down to shipwrecks or whatever structure is down there and they're shooting these big old fish it's like yeah there's like there has to be a skill set to that it's something you had to work for to achieve you know yeah it's something you had to build up to so yeah i i love all that stuff i haven't been like bow hunting i haven't even been rifle hunting it's something that i really want to get into i like all that outdoor stuff we can help you we can help you get into that yeah definitely i'll Connected with some people.

1:53:30I love all that. I like to have a backpack. I just did Mount Whitney last year in August, and I just love being out there in nature. So being able to engage in it that way too is, like you said, the excitement, the buildup, the work you have to put into it, the knowledge you have to acquire, the people you have to bump into. The meals are a lot different too. When you eat a meal that you prepared yourself that you went and hunted, it's just a completely different feeling. Oh, for sure. And you're living in California now, and California has a giant pig population. There's a lot of pig hunting to be had in California pretty much all year round.

1:54:07Yeah, because they're invasive species. That's one that I'll get in the helicopter with a rifle and just take those guys out because I know they're just destroying animal habitat and eating all the food and destroying the geography of most places they are. Millions of them here in Texas, literally millions. Yeah, and they breed like no other too. You know, they just multiply. Three times a year they have litter sometimes. Wow. At least twice a year. I have some friends of mine and I, we have a hunting lease out here. And as you're walking through, like, the woods, you hear them. They sound like demons.

1:54:44Yeah. You hear them, like, fighting with each other in the bushes and shit. You're like, what the fuck am I getting into? Right. They sound like monsters, man. And they're everywhere. Yeah. Like you go to every one of these ranches out here is infested with pigs. Yeah, they're just destroying anything. They have to hunt them. They bring in people to hunt them. A friend of mine has a huge ranch out near Fort Worth. And he brought in a bunch of Navy SEALs to kill pigs. And they set it up like an operation. They literally decided to use it for training. Yeah. And you can blow them up with thermite.

1:55:19You can do all kinds of—not thermite. What's that shit that they use? Tannerite. Tannerite. That's it. Thank you. I've seen that video. Yeah. Oh, that's crazy. It's like flying through the air. It's ridiculous. Yeah, but you can basically do whatever you want to them because they're just encouraging people. They're saying, listen, other than like declaring war on the pigs and bringing in the military and literally going through every state and trying to kill them. Like we've got an economic war where these pigs are destroying people's crops. Right. I mean literally billions of dollars worth of damage every year they're doing to these farms.

1:55:54Yeah. And they just keep – there's more of them every year. More of them every year. They're not going to stop fucking. They're just going to keep reproducing. Just going to keep reproducing. And it's really been a few hundred years since they've been introduced to this country. And boy, they're in every state now. I mean – and what are you going to do? Just let them continue to roam? They're in every state. Are they – like New York State and places like that? They have wild pigs? How many states have a wild pig population? Let's put that into perplexity and see what they say. our ai sponsor i i'm gonna guess let me say 30 i say 30 states have a wild pig population that's my guess 30 out of 50 am i close how many 35 uh figure first to states with documented feral swine presence i like that term feral swine presence does not necessarily mean that every one of these states is a large self-sustaining population.

1:56:5235 states, population established numbers could be lower. Some states only have occasional sightings, small localized groups. Well, it really depends on where they have farms. States with farms have the real problem. In the Southwest, especially Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Florida, Georgia, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, and South Carolina. Yeah. Yeah. Wild. It's it's such a crazy animal, too, because they're, you know, they're so smart. They're so smart and they're very durable. Right. Yeah. Some of them get gigantic, like a thousand pounds. Right. I mean, you see not really. See, I think that, too.

1:57:33Those are not really the wild pigs. What those are is domestic pigs that got loose. And, you know, the thing about domestic pigs, when they get loose, they kind of become wild. Their nose lengthens. Their fur gets, like, thicker and bushier. And their talons, or their tusks, rather, actually grow, which is nuts. They actually metamorphosize. I mean, that's what, like, a feral pig is, right? Mm-hmm. It was a domesticated animal that became wild. The opposite. It was a wild animal that they took and domesticated, but then when you let them loose in the wild, then they become wild again. Oh, okay.

1:58:08That's just weird. It's like they originally were wild animals. It's such a crazy transformation. Yeah. All covered in hair and big tusks and stuff. And then the pigs you see in the farm. Same animal. Yeah. What's nuts is it happens quick. Apparently, the metamorphosis starts to take place. Look this up. See how long it takes before pigs start transforming. I think it's like six weeks or something crazy. It starts to begin. Yeah. Or six weeks where they have to feed themselves, where they have to forage for themselves. They're like, all right, I guess I'm wild. Yeah. And then they just start the transformation.

1:58:41Yeah, it's it's a very weird animal. I don't know of any other animal that will will ask perplexity that I don't know if there's any other animal that does that domesticate become feral and behavior within weeks to months of escaping Becoming wary of people nocturnal mobile and able to forge and survive without care But it does not literally turn to a wild boar in one lifetime pup, but it does have physical Changes was the physical change

1:59:13radically different skull, is overstated. Adult pigs can become tougher, leaner, hairier, and more elusive as conditions change. Major inherited traits become more common when the animals survive and breed, pass on advantageous variants over successive litters. Evidence on feralization emphasizes that these changes are shaped by both environments and multi-generational selection, not an instant biological reversal. Not instant, but they do physically change. I don't think this is totally accurate. But if you see the biggest pig that they ever shot that was a wild pig, I think it's called Hogzilla.

1:59:51Have you ever seen that picture? I think so, yeah. It looks like a domestic pig. It looks like someone was feeding that thing a lot, and then it got out and became a wild pig. Right. I don't know how big that was. This is a photo of it, but it's one of those perspective shots where the guy's behind it. They stand all far behind it. Yeah. Make it look ten times larger. Yeah, but it looks crazy. See, there's one of them where one of them is hanging from a tractor, and I don't give a fuck how close you are to that thing. That thing's giant. Yeah. Like, how big is Hogzilla? That's like some of the gators, or the crocodiles, I mean, that they're finding in, like, Africa and stuff.

2:00:29Mm-hmm. They have the pictures sitting next to those things, and they're, like, 20-plus feet long, you know, like, ridiculous. Yeah, crocodiles get big. I think the biggest ones they've gotten are, like, close to 20. See, that's the one thing about spearfishing is you know the sharks are there, you know. Do you ever see them? I have not seen. I've seen leopard sharks, but that's nothing crazy. You never saw a great white? I've never seen a great white. If you do, would that be the last time you go spearfishing? I want to say no, but I don't know. I'll have to get there first. You have to hit one on the nose.

2:01:00Yeah. If it's, like, getting crazy, it's probably like, all right, I'm cool on that. But they have all sorts of different things, like the Ocean Guardian. Okay, that guy's definitely behind that thing. But that fucker looks like he's got tusks. Well, look at that one to the left. The giant 36 stone. Yeah. Oh, you're that one too. They said this one was maybe 1 ,200 pounds. It was originally thought of to be a hoax. There's a documentary about it. This is back in 2004 and 2005, though. Hmm. What's that one on the upper left? That dude's resting his arm. Is that a real picture? That's like a little kid, though.

2:01:35The upper one. But the upper left, the kid. That one's way too close for that guy. Yeah, that one's closer than the guy. The guy's behind it. But that kid. Well, that looks like. Oh, he's not resting his arms on it. He's resting his arms. Yeah, it is the same. That's a fat fucker, though. Look at the size of that thing. That looks more like a domestic pig, though. Like that one right there. That's a good example. Go back up a little so I can make it small. Yeah. Look at his snout. It's actually kind of long. They're also still behind it, too. Yeah. Hard to tell how far, but. Why do people do that?

2:02:07It's big. Try to make it look cool, man. I know, but it's big. I like how that one says 36 stone. That must be an English pig. Yeah, it's the mirror. That's crazy. That's a big pig, but it's not. What is the biggest reported wild pig that was shot in Texas? Let's ask that. I think that's a porno. Turn that off. It's on IMDb. The other white meat bites back. Did you say the biggest one was shot in Texas? Yes. What is the biggest wild hog that was shot in Texas? let's guess I'm gonna guess like 500 pounds that's my guess

2:02:53That's just a guess though. No official. Largest ever shot. Most credible. 790 pound bore. Holy shit. Captured, not shot. Near DeLeon in Comanche County. January 2015. Weighed on certified mill scales. That's fucking crazy big. 790s. Nuts. That's so big. Oh you imagine millions of 790 pound wild pigs running through this country? Yeah, that would not be not ideal. Yeah, so never never been hunting I've Shot some birds with a pellet gun or something. That's about it But you want to I would love to yeah What would you want to go hunting for do you have a thing in your mind that you think would be?

2:03:43I think something like it like a deer is probably like a good starting starting point Do you know how to shoot a bow? I do. Or would you want to use a rifle? I haven't shot compound too often. I shoot a recurve. It's definitely not something I'm super practiced with, but I'm pretty good with it. I went to an archery competition pretty recently and did pretty good with it. Did you really? Yeah. With a compound bow? With a recurve bow. A recurve bow. Don't hunt with that. Yeah. It's too frisky. You're not going to. That would be. You've got to get real good. You'd have to. Yeah. A lot of practice, a lot of hunts, and a lot of experience.

2:04:15How far are you from San Diego? An hour, two hours if there's traffic. There's a really good archery shop in San Diego. I think it's Performance Archery. Is that the name of the place? But it's one of the best shops in the country. Okay. Yeah, if you want to get a compound bow and want to get someone to really make sure that it's sized correctly, that the draw length is correct and everything like that. Yeah. Performance Archery.

2:04:44why are you showing me a map yeah just go back to the doesn't show you anything there yeah it's in i've been there before with uh john dudley it's a great place like really elite 4.6 stars on google yeah it's it's uh you want to go to a really good place so they make sure they set you up correct like that's a big thing with bows it's like um you know i couldn't shoot john jones bow you know He's really tall. I'm short. The length would be different. My peep sight would be different. It has to all be measured out to your size, and everyone's different. So you'd have to really make sure that your bow is set up for you correctly.

2:05:24And it's just like martial arts in that you want to learn correctly first. You don't want to unlearn it and try to learn something the right way because you're always going to fall back on the way you got comfortable with doing it the first time. Right. So that's a good thing to do. Nice. I've shot a compound bow here or there but I like all that stuff like I said I'm big into continuing to learn lots of different skills especially in that realm I'm all about it do you think of that as a way to advance your mental function in all of life that will help your fighting the more different things you learn the more different things you do that you can like take things from that and apply it to fighting um or do you just do it because you enjoy it i have to say i do it because i enjoy it um it's probably not directly related to fighting but more of the um self-reliance and the self-preservance like to me like i'm like at home making my own like kydex holsters and my leather holsters and doing all that kind of stuff is a good start my i have this old truck that i want to tear apart and and learn how to work on it from the ground up um being able to hunt and provide like just i'm always thinking like when shit hits the fan i better be ready for it you know and so being a martial artist being a warrior encompasses a lot of aspects you know hand-to-hand combat is only one of those things there's a lot of different aspects to uh self-perseverance so i think about it a little bit that way um i do it Because it's fun and it's just exciting to learn a new skill and then have an end product, something that you made yourself.

2:07:10Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's always a good idea to be self-reliant. And also, like, if you have a garden, that's another great thing. Like, have a place where you can grow your own food. Yeah. So you're not getting any pesticides or herbicides or bullshit on your food. 100%. I mean, the end goal for me is to have probably would not be the only property because my wife just loves Southern California so much. But Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, go get a couple acres up there, move the family, maybe some close friends, and just have our own little self-reliant thing up there with some crop, some wildlife, the ability to hunt up there on our land.

2:07:48A lot of the stuff I'm seeing up there, they have stocked lakes and the rivers have fish as well. So something like that would be beautiful. You're really thinking about a possible catastrophe. It's always on my mind. No, I just want to get away from the hustle and bustle of everything. Just be out there in nature is really kind of the hopes for that. Are you stuck in California because of your wife and what you do outside of MMA? Or have you ever thought about moving to a different place to train? Well, training is kind of the main thing that keeps me there, honestly. Yeah. My team is there. All my coaches are there.

2:08:25Of course, I can bounce around. Which gym are you out of now? I'm all over the place. I train at the Dent Training Center in New Orleans. I train at CSW. Fullerton with Eric Paulson. I love Eric. Yeah, he's awesome. Didn't your dad train with Eric? He did. That's how I got over there in the first place because Ben was running the fight practice at CSW then. Bro, Eric's an OG. He's an OG, dude. He's such a cool guy. Eric Paulson, I remember back in the day when he had like a crazy ponytail in the days where he could grab hair. Yeah, well, that's why he cut it off. I think it was Sean Shurik, right?

2:09:02He was fighting him bare knuckle, and homie kept grabbing his ponytail and holding him there, and that's the only reason why, and I think right after that fight, he went and chopped it off and had short hair from that point. I know it's nice to be good-looking with long, flowy locks, but that shit is, especially back in those days, when you could grab hair. You remember Hoist Gracie versus Kimo? Hoist had a fucking handful of hair when he was on top and just blasted him. I mean, to me, cut the hair, man. Cut it or braid it. Especially if it's the old UFC days where you could actually grab hair.

2:09:36If you didn't grab it, yeah. Yeah. You know, people complain all the time about guys grabbing their shorts, and it does happen all the time. Guys grab shorts. I'm always like, why are you wearing shorts? Right. I don't know if you wear shorts. Do you wear spandex or do you wear shorts? Spandex, yeah. Yeah. Why are you wearing shorts? Why are you wearing anything someone can grab? And especially, like, everybody likes the loose, like, the high-slit cut shorts nowadays. So, I mean, it's more to grab onto, yeah. Yeah, I just don't understand it. Here it is. It's crazy. It's crazy. He's doing headbutts and shit.

2:10:05Yeah. Oh, yeah, man. This is bare knuckle, headbutts. Hey, and then you could kick him on the nuts and all that stuff back then. Bro, wrestlers were a fucking nightmare when you could headbutt. If you go back and remember the Mark Coleman days, he would get in your guard and headbutt the shit out of you. Right. Yeah, and how are you getting off your back against a high-level wrestler like that? I know, it's crazy. He's just grabbing his hair like it's a wrist lock. I know. It's crazy. He had his hair, and then I don't know if Eric escapes or if the time goes out, but Eric ends up finishing him at the end of it.

2:10:38God, he got a crazy cut here. What is this, a floor time count you had to get up if you're on the ground for too long? Is that what it is? That's WCC. That's crazy. I wonder how much time. Oh, it's counting down. Yeah, I want to see what happens if it gets up here. Right. Do they stand them up? Yeah. Wow. That's crazy. Yeah, but Eric Paulson is such a legend of the game. Oh, yeah, he is. There's not a day that I go in there and learn submission flows from him that I'm not just blown away. That's crazy. I forgot they did that. Interesting. Well, I think back then in the early days of fighting, there was a lot of promoters that were trying a bunch of different tactics to try to make the fights more interesting.

2:11:22Right. That would be the only reason. I don't want you to sit and lay there anymore and get up and start throwing fists again. I hate stand-ups. I hate them. I hate them with all my heart. I don't think in a five-minute round you should ever be stood up. There's a lot that could go on there. I mean, especially if you're holding position. You're regaining your breath a little bit. you're setting up a pass or something you know it doesn't always look apparent to the crowd or to the ref even if you could hold them down like who cares you could hold a guy up against a cage right okay and all you have to do is like land a few knees and a few punches occasionally and they'll let you stay in that position i feel like they're breaking that up even more and more i don't think you should break up anything i think it should be reserved for fouls i think if someone commits a foul then you stand them up and then you assess whether or not someone gets a point taken away or whether or not that person needs time, but if it's a place where you don't want to be and the guy's putting you in a place where you don't want to be, he's winning that exchange.

2:12:19Right. If a guy can hold you down and you can't get up, if you don't like it and you can't get up, then he's winning. Right. Yeah. We lose as an audience. The audience loses. There's a 10-minute limit for ground time. What fight was this? This is WCC? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was it called? World Combat Championships? Is that the one where Henzo – yes. henzo gracie fought ben spikers you remember that one oh dude this is one of the reasons why elbows to the back of the head are illegal because henzo this guy was calling henzo there's you dog look at that um henzo uh was uh in his hotel room and this guy was calling him every fucking 10 minutes like to try to wake him up.

2:13:04And Henzo had to take the phone and shove it in a drawer. Like, he was fucking with him constantly. And Henzo got his back and elbowed the fucking shit out of him from rear mount. So this isn't the same fight. I think it is. Yeah, right here. Oh, here it is. That's it. So Henzo gets his back, and here it is. Look at these elbows, dude. Just ferocious elbows.

2:13:34So this dude was a judo champion. I was going to say, why would you wear a gi against a guy like Henzo? And Henzo doesn't have a gi on. And then Henzo steps off and then gets on his neck. Oh, shit. Yeah. Ow, that was crossing the line. After he just elbowed the shit out of him. See, you know what's funny is, like, the 12-6 rule, everybody fantasizes about, like, how much better that is. And sure, you got some cutting, but your force that you can deliver, in my perspective, straight down with an elbow like that is so much more tremendous than you do on this. Yes. This was only – you know why it was outlawed, right?

2:14:11Why? Big John McCarthy has got a great story about this. When the ESPN people or the Athletic Commission people, rather, were first deciding whether or not they were going to sanction MMA, they had seen these ESPN karate breaking demonstrations at like 2 in the morning. These fucking guys – yeah! And they break a bunch of bricks. And they're like, you have to outlaw that. That should be illegal. People could die. That's literally what they thought was the most powerful strike was the 12 to 6 elbow. So you couldn't even do a 12 to 6 elbow standing, which is crazy. You couldn't tomahawk. So you couldn't come down with a tomahawk 12 to 6.

2:14:49It had to be at a slight angle. It had to be some kind of angle, which is the fucking dumbest thing ever. This by far across. It's rotating your shoulders to do it. a punch. It's the most power. For sure. Yeah, you might get more cutting. It's available if a guy's doing this. If a guy's covering up like that and he can go straight down. But to eliminate it as an option, the only reason why was... The WCC had two different brackets. Grappler's bracket, striker's bracket. Grappler's could be on the ground for up to 10 minutes. Strikers only had two minutes. And submissions were illegal. What? In a striker's fight?

2:15:28Yeah. And then the idea was the winner of both brackets would fight at the end. Oh, that's so crazy. Yeah, it only made it that one tournament. That's so crazy. What year was that? 94 or 95, maybe. Okay, so this is right after the UFC burst onto the scene. UFC was 93. It just says they were trying to be different than the UFC with different rules. They're doing something like that again where it's like striking only MMA where, I don't know, if you go back to the ground, they stand you back up or something. Where's this? I don't know. I saw it on Instagram. I mean, what is 1FC's doing it the right way where they just have striking fights?

2:16:04They have MMA fights and striking fights. Dude, I've been trying to talk Dana into doing that for years. Because I know they got into Zufa boxing, which is great. I'm like, why not? When people boo when things go to the ground, how about have striking fights? But in his mind, kickboxing in America has a stink on it. from the pka karate days you know which just wasn't that good they weren't allowed a leg kick it was all above the waist right and you know there was great fighters back then like rick rufus and a few guys that were like really elite but for the most part the skill level wasn't that high and people never really got into pka karate and never really got into kick it never really became the kind of success that boxing was and so i think in his mind that's how people look at kickboxing.

2:16:51Right. I think it's the most, it has the most possibility in terms of, like, a sport that is not being taken advantage of, like, that it has the most potential by far. I mean, like you say, you look at the one championship guys that are over there kickboxing Muay Thai, and they're even doing hybrid fights for that DJ versus Ra-Tang one. Yes. They're switching it up all crazy, and I don't know. I mean, that's getting pretty good traction over there. It is. I heard, you know, they have some difficulties, and I hope they do really well. The world needs more organizations. The MMA world needs a bunch of options.

2:17:29Right. And, you know, this PFL merger where PFL has merged with, what is it? MVP. Yeah, Jake Paul's production company, MVP. Yeah. That's great. We need more of that. Netflix is involved. Fantastic. You need more. You need more options, more fights, and it's just going to make more MMA fans. Just for me, when you see a guy like that cat that I was telling you about, Megomedov, who fought for PFL, more people need to know about these guys. There's so many guys out there that are fucking killers, man. The talent pool is so deep. Outside of the UFC, it's extremely deep. You've got people coming out of Russia, these Brazilians, like people all over the world that nobody's ever heard of just because they haven't been on that big stage quite yet.

2:18:16Exactly. I think it would be really cool that we did like champion versus champion kind of fights. It's never going to happen. Yeah. The UFC would never do that. What if their guys win? Fuck you. The benefit of it for the UFC is like it's so outweighed by the negatives. Right. Especially since they're number one. Yeah. And they're not number one like a little bit, you know. Right. For the casual, MMA is UFC. It's like Q-tips. It's not a cotton swab. It's a fucking Q-tip. Yeah, from a business perspective, I understand it. I think as a fighter, it would be cool to challenge yourself. Once you get to that pinnacle, if you have title defenses and you're kind of taking everybody out, it's like, hey, I really want to be the best in the world.

2:18:58Let me fight all the top guys in the world. So it may never happen, but it's a cool ideology. It could happen if something like MVP got to a level of prominence in the public eye where they developed a roster of champions that was equal to the UFC. Then it would make sense. Then no one's losing. Yeah. Yeah, because then it brings in all the crowds from everywhere. Right. Everybody gets – And then you do a co-promotion for like a gigantic super fight like the UFC's version of Floyd Mayweather versus Manny Pacquiao. Right. You have something where these guys are so huge. It's just like, let's make this happen.

2:19:36Everyone's going to get rich. Let's go. Yeah, for sure. It has to be something of that caliber. It has to be a Conor McGregor-level champion where people are coming from all over anywhere to sign on to buy the fight at home or to show up in person. And I think you'd have to have two guys of that level to bring some of that traction to it. Do you think Conor fights again? I don't know. It sounds like he's going to. I think he does. I think he does. The one more and then he's done with it. Yeah. I hope, you know. That's what, like you say, guys stay in it too long. And some of these guys, that's all they know.

2:20:15It's the only thing they've ever found success in or found the ability to put food on the table or provide for their families. And so what else do they know? They gave everything to fighting. Well, with Conor, it's not that, though. But that's not Conor. He went from such a high place to doing what he's doing now in the fighting world. It's just like, why even step in and do that anymore? I think it's just because he still can for a little bit more time. I mean, he's 37, 38 now. Realistically, he's got two years left maybe. If you really take care of yourself, and we both know he's partied a little bit.

2:20:53I don't think he's going to get back to that level of training and mindset to it though. You know, it's very difficult to know because he was capable of doing it at one point in his life. And it doesn't mean that he can never do that again just because he's rich. Right. And I think you can underestimate a man's character and say that he can't ever reach those heights again. A guy like Conor is a special guy. It takes a special type of person to put on a performance like he did against Eddie Alvarez. Like that was – he was in the fucking matrix, man. Right. To be there live when he was doing that, I was like, good Lord.

2:21:29Yeah. That was special. Yeah, he's pulling and Eddie's like skinning his nose, blah, blah, and coming back with it. And then he's countering instantaneous with perfect precision. Yeah. He was on fire. If he can reach that height, as long as his body holds up, but here's the problem is both of his ACLs have been torn. Both of his meniscus has been blown out. You know, now with the crazy one, with that crazy jumping roundhouse kick, like who knows, man? Right. Who knows what he could still do? I will never say never. It's not that he couldn't do it. It's just that will he do it? Will he put that time and effort to recollect and to be of that zen, of that Bushido like he used to be?

2:22:08Because the way he used to talk and be philosophical and stoic about training, the way he explained it and delved into it, that's what drew people to Conor before anything. The way he talked about the warrior lifestyle and he didn't care about anything else and he lost his mind to it. those are the things that intrigue the people this real true warrior persona and that that was the biggest question with this last one everybody's like oh do you think connor's gonna do it do you think connor and it was the same answer do i think he can do it for sure but the problem with that is connor's so good at talking that he could convince you that he's doing he can do anything you know so i'm like i'm not there in his camp i'm not seeing what he's doing behind the scenes, I really can't make that guess, honestly.

2:22:55Yeah, and much like you, I want to believe. You hear him talk, you're like, I want to believe. I want to see him pull it off. Of course. Yeah, we all did. He was a very important part of fighting. He was a really special person that came along and brought a lot of attention to the sport that would not, it wouldn't have been the same without him. That whole era of time from 10 years ago or whatever it was when he really burst. More than that, but I think he won his—what year would he win his first title? When was against Jose Aldo? What year was that?

2:23:33It's at the end of 2015. It was December 2015. Yeah, so 11 years ago, really when he became Conor. You know, that one punch knockout of Jose Aldo was really when he became that guy. I mean he was huge before that but that was the one and then of course the Eddie Alvarez fight was another one I mean it's ten years man. That's a long time, right? A lot of booze a lot of party in a lot of fucking off, you know Yeah, a lot of luxury, you know not waking up. That's mm-hmm It's hard to hard to go right also the difference as you said before between 45 and you know and going all the way up Now he wants to fight at 70, you know yeah, and he's also and that's a weight class of killers right there.

2:24:16You talk about Carlos Protes and this and that. I'm like. Morales, bro. Yeah, yeah, Morales. That guy's giant. Those guys are all huge. Huge. Even Ian Gary, you saw him sparring Conor, and he's far bigger than Conor is. Conor's not that ginormous of a guy from my understanding. He gets pretty thick, but he's not really that big of an individual. No, 55 is really probably as heavy as he should be fighting at, realistically, when you think about those guys. Yeah, but then is he going to cut the weight to do that? It's hard. Is he going to do all that stuff? Well, if he doesn't want to do that, he really probably shouldn't be fighting.

2:24:51I mean, the only thing with that is that he can kind of pick who it is he's fighting to an extent. And so he can get away with the weight class thing a little bit. Yeah, he can. He can do whatever the fuck he wants. But, you know, if I was in his—it's also at his age, should he even be cutting that kind of weight anymore? Maybe just pick the real fight is 170 with Michael Chandler. Have that fight. You want to have one more fight and go out? That would be beautiful for him, yeah. Because Max is a tough matchup for him. It's tough. If he doesn't get Max out of there in the first two rounds, then good luck with that.

2:25:25Max is going to – I mean, Max's whole strategy is we're going to drown him. Yeah. That's what his thoughts were. Yeah. That's a tough one. Max is as tough as they come, and he's fighting the top of the top consistently. So he's only getting better. He's only getting more experienced. I think Michael Chandler would be great regardless. I think it draws the crowd. I think it brings the energy to it. I think that's a good skill level for Conor to come back. The ultimate fighter thing together and talked all the shit to each other. It's crazy that Chandler sat on the shelf for like two years waiting for that fight.

2:26:02And then finally he's like, all right, I guess it's not happening. Right. Yeah. He got fucked. He did. And Chandler to me is like, he's very physically tough. I just, you know, I don't think he is as skillful as Max or some of these other guys. So I think that's a great fight for Conor. I think that's a good one for him to come back on. Yeah. I mean, Chandler's a wild dog. He is a wild dog, but he relies on that too much is what I've seen. It's like he comes out all crazy, and it's just like, dude, like, that's the same thing. Start with the jab. Start. Oh, and it's who am I to say it quite yet.

2:26:35You know, he's there doing his thing. But from my perspective, you know, there needs to be a little bit more calculation there. Well, it's not going to happen at this stage of his career. But, yeah, if you go back and watch his Eddie Alvarez fights back when he was fighting in Bellator, those were fucking insane. Yeah, that was like a war back and forth, you know. Like both those guys hit the canvas like three or four times each, you know. Those fights were insane. Yeah. Some of the, like, for people that, like, you want to see a great fight that you probably never saw before. If you only watch the UFC, go back and watch Michael Chandler versus Eddie Alvarez, one and two.

2:27:09Those fights are nuts. Right. Yeah, like I said, it's just like a war back and forth. But that's also— Two pit bulls. Chandler is a very physical guy. He's very explosive. And just think, like, back at his prime, you know, how much more explosive he was, how much power he had, how much energy he was delivering to that fight. And that's why he was performing like that. but like a lot of fighters you know like the Roy Jones and stuff you can't always rely on that especially in your later years back to this you gotta be thinking with this especially as your body starts to get a little bit slower and not as explosive I don't know he's over there getting after it that Gagey fight he was definitely not on the winning end of it but he stayed in it and fought hard the Poirier fight he's had some great fights he's had some great fights for sure you fight a guy like Rufy Rufy's just on a tear right now if you don't take him down to the ground there's not a lot of people that beat him on a pure striking match right now anyway so good yeah he's see that's another one that's another like individual that you look at it like like a work of art you know someone who's really understands uh what it means to be a striker yeah and super creative like he does a lot of wild stuff in sparring there's some awesome sparring footage of him like pulling off crescent kicks when he's like two inches from you yeah he's like back yeah Yeah, he's artistic.

2:28:32I mean, he's very creative when he's in there. It's beautiful to watch. He's got a great fight coming up. Who is he fighting? Why did I blank on it? He's fighting someone. Oh, Armand Sarukian. Oh, yeah. Yes. About two or three weeks. Yes. Armand Sarukian, and they're fighting in L.A. That's a good fight. That's a really good fight. And that's the whole thing with him. He's got to make sure he doesn't get taken down against someone like Armand Sarouk. Yeah, that's a tall task right there. Yeah, absolutely. That guy's one of the best wrestlers in the sport. It's interesting to see him stay relevant outside the UFC when the UFC hasn't been offering fights.

2:29:16That's great. Yeah. Very smart. He's doing his thing. He's doing his thing. It's very smart what he's done. And getting into the RAF matches and doing a bunch of different things on social media. He just stays out there. Yeah, he's hanging out with all the Twitch streamers and stuff. It's not like he needs money. He's good on that part. That's weird. It's weird for a guy to be that good who's rich. He's so good and so tough. Yeah, two trains of thought there. It's like you either have all the amenities to do so or you have all the amenities so then you're a pussy. You don't need to do anything.

2:29:48Yeah, you're soft. You just sit around. But not him. He's fucking shredded and he grew up rich. Yeah, stupid rich too. He's literally Bruce Wayne. He's the UFC Bruce Wayne He's Bruce Wayne I mean he's always got Ferraris and shit You know you ever watch his video series on YouTube His training series Which one like the logs Yeah so they roll into a town Like he rolls into LA First thing he does is goes and rents a Lamborghini So when he shows up at training He's driving around a rented Lamborghini everywhere He's got that kind of scratch And yet he's training like a fucking absolute animal And he's a great fighter I mean, he has no flaws in his game.

2:30:27No flaw in terms of heart. He doesn't quit. It's like his first fight with Islam was fucking chaos. He gave Islam one of the toughest fights of his career. Right. I think that's probably the closest, I mean, besides obviously Islam's loss. Yes. He really got tested like that, you know? Absolutely. And that was a short notice, wasn't it, for Armand? Yes. Yes. Yeah. So he's got all the skills. He's a top contender for sure. And when you think about Rufi, the real problem that he had in the UFC was that one fight with Benoit Saint-Denis. He got taken down. And, you know, Benoit is obviously a very elite grappler.

2:31:03So it would be interesting to see if he can avoid Armand. That's the big question right there for sure. I would think that that's what his camp is surrounded around is takedown defense, getting up off the bottom. Yeah. blocking some chokes and being able to get back to the feet. I mean, that's the thing. That's, you know, for the MMA striker guys, it's not like you have to be, like, the dopest wrestler, like, all around. But you do need to be really good at defending takedowns. Yeah. And you do need to have one, two, three escapes off the bottom, a sweep, some kind of ability to stand up, you know, and then, yeah, get back to your feet and make this a close fight.

2:31:47If you get stuck on the bottom, then you're done for. You're screwed. And I think for a lot of these guys that are elite strikers, it takes that one fight where you do get dominated on the ground to really have a wake-up call. And I think a good example of that might be Cyril Ghosn, when Cyril Ghosn fought Jon Jones. And also Francis. Francis beat him up on the ground as well. But the Jon Jones one was, I think, a real humbling wake-up call because Jon essentially avoided getting hit completely, took him down, and strangled him real quick. And then he's sitting there like, fuck. And from that moment on, that dude's been on a tear.

2:32:23I mean, and you see how he performed on the White House lawn against, you know, what we thought is arguably one of the greatest strikers that's ever fought in the UFC, Alex Pereira. And he certainly was at middleweight and light heavyweight. But Ciro gone at heavyweight is something special, man. There's a good example of a guy that you were talking about who hits and doesn't get hit. We've literally never seen him get rocked. Right. Well, that's just crazy and he's he's got that Savat ish style I wouldn't say it's completely Savat but he bounces it's almost like that karate Savat He moves really well in and out dude if you can do that at heavyweight You're that big and you move like that Yeah, it's gonna be very difficult for a lot of those guys to track you absolutely And you know we were talking about like point fighting like how point fighting has like such a like I think it's it's a great skill to learn Another great skill to learn is basketball and that's what Cyril gone did he played a lot of basketball And if you think about a big guy where you're constantly exploding and moving and all this different changing directions, that would definitely benefit you with footwork.

2:33:26Yeah, there's all sorts of hand-eye coordination. You've got to be very quick and be able to move your hands and your feet in succession. Because, look, no heavyweights move like that guy. Right. He's the gold standard for elite moving heavyweights in the UFC. It's zero gone. And there's no close second. Who's the close second at heavyweight? You've got to go back to— It was like that. Travis Brown, when he was in his prime, Travis Brown, when he was in his prime, was very light on his feet and moved very well. But I think Cyril Gaon is like a new level, a new level of elite mobile heavyweight who also has ridiculous knockout power.

2:34:00Yeah, for sure. I mean, I would say the only person that rivals his speed and agility would be maybe like a Hokit. I haven't really seen... Hokit's fast. I don't think he's got that kind of footwork speed. Not at all. Like, there's no comparison on the skill levels of that movement and the striking. He just has similar speed and agility. What Hogan has is elite wrestling, though. Yeah. And a lot of shit talking. A lot of shit talking. He gets people riled up. I don't know. I think that's also something that Conor did really well, is that you got these guys going into a fight going, I cannot get beat by this guy.

2:34:37He just did. He said this and this and this. And I have all this pressure. And you could see it. Like, you saw it on Jose, although. What's the other Brazilian he fought?

2:34:49I don't know. It starts with an R. You've spotted him before. Maybe it was his second fight. I don't know. I'm blanking on his name. Yeah, I know who you're talking about. I'm seeing it in my head. You can see he comes out. He runs out all crazy. Just everybody. Everybody. He gets a morale, though. If you have that added pressure, it's a psychological effect. And I think Hoke does the same thing. He takes people out of their comfort zone. Now everything's extra tense. Everything's guarded. You're not making any like – you're not taking any chances or risks or stepping out of line. You're just – you're very, very safe and secluded and fighting.

2:35:26You know, you have to be loose when you're fighting. You can't be thinking that. And you probably didn't sleep good the night before because you fucking hate this guy. Yeah. And then you're like, yeah, riled up, pissed off. All I want to do is take his head off. You're not thinking about technique. You're thinking about taking his head off. That's it. One big overhand. It's like, dude, when you fight angry, then you're – you had all this skill and your emotion could take it like right out of you. See, that's another aspect of this striking game or this MMA game. Do you think that that should be taught more, the mental aspect of the game of just being able to stay in your own head and not get affected by these outside influences, not get affected by – and understand what these things are.

2:36:04So when you encounter them, you have a coach, I think, that could teach you not just how to fight but also how to maintain your peace of mind and how to maintain your focus and not get distracted. Oh, 100%. I don't know. Everybody's individual. It's hard to have a program because you have guys that go to athletic therapists or whatever, performance therapists, and they certainly do all that stuff. I think a little bit is you're born with it. have the ability to control like emotions better than others some people go through again back to like just hard life experiences is is the best teacher so a lot of people learn that way um i don't know i don't know what it is for like each individual person me like the the third person i train with is my boxing coach dale roible out of his we let he train out of his garage in his front yard, you know?

2:36:58And, uh, like we, we talk spiritually beyond like just boxing. We talk about the world. We, we delve into the spirituality of the gospel and God and what that means to us. Um, he, he's a big time recurve guy. That's who I went and did my archery competition with. He's a big time leatherworking guy. Like, um, and so we, we just sit and talk about like what it means to be a warrior, the, the philosophy and the psychology behind that, what it means to control your emotions when you're engaged with certain aspects in life how do you come out on the other side of it like every day i mean oftentimes we just we stop and we're just sitting and talking about things and you know my wife's always like you're just sitting there talking hanging out with them like this is part of training baby talking psychology you know like it's something we got to spend extra time doing and uh but i do like i get there and we'll sit and talk for 30 minutes sometimes before we even warm up i'm stretching and we then we get into he starts wrapping hands Like we're always just like adjusting and constantly talking about it.

2:38:00So that's a great resource. To me, that's fantastic. Like it makes fighting spiritual to me. It makes it like it takes it another level up, you know. And so and then, yeah, I mean, I got him. We really connect on a lot of things. Eric Paulson is an absolute legend of the game. I have a lot of experience that I learned from him, a lot of mindset. He's the same way. Ben Jones, he's the guy that you want to go into battle with. He's the one that you guys hear in the corner that's super loud. He's the kind of guy that, yeah, he's putting you through that hardship mentally and physically in the room.

2:38:33And if you can endure that, then you can go out and fight. So I think there's different levels to it. You've got to get it in different ways. But it's interpersonal, you know, and you've got to delve into that. And it's got to be its own practice, its own training for the day. So 100%. I mean, yeah, if you get riled up by the littlest thing and you go out there and you try to go crazy, you're just like a kindergartner in this fight game. You've lost everything, and emotion can do that to you. So, yeah, you have to be on top of that. I say there's so many levels to this. There's the cardio. There's skill set.

2:39:09There's being relaxed. There's an emotional aspect that you have to think about because everybody gets hit, and what's the natural reaction? I'm going to get you right back. but the best fighter can get hit and just not even think about it not even get riled up one heart their heartbeat doesn't even go up one level the game plan stays the same I'm intelligently blocking I'm doing my stuff I've never deviated from what I'm doing and if you could do that beautiful you got it that's an awesome mindset brother I can't wait to see you inside there again and thank you very much for being here it was a lot of fun I really enjoyed it thanks for having me it was a great experience my pleasure good luck in the future I'm sure I'll be calling one of your fights soon yes sir bye everybody