1022: Was Poly Podcaster Fling a Dangerous Thing? | Feedback Friday

22:20But when I get it right, y 'all, I sound lit. Anyway, those hokas are nice and snug. I'm going to go for a nice brisk walk around the neighborhood after this, skip my 10 ,000 steps in and thank the stars that I don't have to deal with the stress of an open marriage. My God. So look, you've shared a lot here and we only have so much time. So I'm gonna cut to the chase. I think it's over with this guy. You know that you're live narrating the decline of this relationship. Now, whether things ended because Podcaster was too needy or because it was only fun when you could tell your husband about it or because it's stressful to be with a partner who wants more than you can offer or because you're evolving and you want a different kind of relationship now.

22:56It just sounds like some combination of all those things, actually. You've been on this carousel enough times to know how it works, how it makes you feel. And if it generally doesn't make you feel good, if you and this guy can't talk and make progress in your relationship together, then yes, you're probably forcing an old flame. But what I'd be curious to know is, why does this old flame keep drawing you back? What function is this guy serving in your life? I mean, I know podcasters are ridiculously attractive people, but what besides that is going on here. At first, there was real excitement and attraction there, which is great.

23:28I mean, complicated with your ex-husband, obviously, but those are legit reasons to want to date someone. But over time, I get the sense it was more comfort and familiarity and loneliness that drew you to keep seeing him. And those are perfectly valid needs and feelings, but they're not really a great reason to continue engaging with somebody that you're no longer crazy about. And you said you don't regret separating from your ex-husband. You've experienced a lot of growth. Hey, I'm glad to hear that. But I do wonder if there might be some other parts of you that craves security and connection, and you thought you might be able to find it in this guy, and you kind of did, and you kind of didn't, or it came at a cost, and I guess my thought there is you might just want to ask yourself why you're seeking those things out at this moment in your life, and why you might not always be seeking them out from the right people, if this extended fling from podcaster is any indication.

24:15Yeah, I think that's a really great question, Jordan. It's so fascinating how relationships are like mirrors, right? We date people, and they reflect back to us everything. Our needs, our fears, our projections, our true wants at the end of the day. And in a non-monogamous situation like this, there are multiple mirrors with multiple reflections. I mean, these two guys, podcaster and ex-husband, to your point, brought out different aspects of her in another fascinating way. They were in a relationship with each other too, but at a distance, right? Although they probably related to each other internally, I guess, in ways we can't really know, even if they weren't actually romantically involved.

24:52But it seems like her ex-husband was necessary for her to enjoy the relationship with podcaster. She's asking, am I forcing this old flame? But I think the real question she's asking is, what do I do with all of this information that this side piece and my ex revealed to me? Exactly. She's grown tremendously, but it feels to me like she's still wrestling with that growth. She's still trying to catch up to it. That's the sense I get too. The piece of her letter that might be the most important is when she said, I think I need to start looking forward instead of backward. I don't want to worry about other people's emotions.

25:23I need to protect my own. I'm being true to myself. I'm trying to figure out what I want from the people in my life. Yeah, there's so much going on in those three sentences, eh? So much. So looking forward instead of backward, I mean, I guess yes to that, but with an asterisk, I think there's still a lot for you to understand and process from these two very significant relationships that you've had. So I'm all for you talking about your experiences and trying to figure out what they were designed to teach you and how you showed up in them, all of that. But to Jordan's point a moment ago, I am hearing that this relationship with this guy has probably run its course.

25:55And unless you or he make some huge breakthrough in understanding each other or maybe adjusting your expectations, I'm not sure you should be going back to the past. But why you felt compelled to go back there is still a very good question. Now, about not wanting to worry about other people's feelings, needing to protect your own, again, yes to protecting your own feelings, you're responsible for you. And it does sound like you're at a point in life where, yeah, you're prioritizing yourself, and I think that's probably appropriate and healthy to a certain degree. I totally understand not wanting to worry about someone else's feelings, especially when you're not actually that passionate about that person.

26:30I get it. That's an awful position to be in, and in my experience, it's usually a sign that it's time to redefine the relationship or put it to bed. But in the larger context of your story, not wanting to worry about other people's feelings, that is a very interesting theme, because that's not just true of Podcaster. I also heard that in the way you responded to your ex-husband when he had reservations about you getting involved with this guy. That night, he had that meltdown while you guys were together. You went off. You had this super exciting experience, which you had to push him to let you do.

27:02Meanwhile, he was left alone with his conflict and his hurt and his jealousy, his fear, his anger, all of that. And those were so severe that he, what did he do? Like called hotels and literally drove around trying to find you so he could stop you? or pretend stop you. I mean, what a scene. It's so intense. And even when you knew he was having a meltdown, you said you ignored most of his calls. You enjoyed this very stimulating evening. You were afraid of coming home. So you stayed another night knowing your husband was really suffering. Now you justified that by pointing out that he always seems to be grateful afterward.

27:37And on some level that does seem to be true. And look, your ex-husband had a responsibility to draw a line here and say, no, this is, I'm not okay with this. If he wasn't comfortable with all of So this is not all on you. But even if that's true, it doesn't sound to me like you were always very respectful of his feelings, very attuned to them. And when his feelings were at odds with your desires, you know, when his feelings were inconvenient, basically, you had a very interesting response, which was, well, first of all, to convince him to not put too much stock in them and to not limit your freedom because, you know, hey, we're ethically non-monogamous and you always enjoy this too.

28:11You get off on it as well. So you're going to be happy. And when that failed, your response was to kind of simply disregard his feelings and do whatever you wanted anyway. Which, by the way, I am clearly not an ethical non-monogamy expert, but at that point, doesn't it stop being ethical non-monogamy and start becoming unethical non-monogamy? That's my understanding because the two people in this relationship are not freely consenting to the same terms. Right. She's having to twist his arm a little bit. Or a lot a bit, kind of. I mean, the guy drove around looking for her. That doesn't sound like he was like, oh, fine.

28:45Do you? But what's fascinating about their dynamic is that he did on some level enjoy these encounters of hers and they found a way to make it work kind of for both of them. And it sounds like it was part of his fetish slash kink somehow, too. Exactly. It's like those guys that their woman cheats, right? And then they come home and they find the guy and they like chase him out of the house. But it's part of the whole thing. Like they're into it. He's not mad at her afterwards. But the other guy's like jumps out the window with his cowboy boots on. How do we make that work for us? Right. But even that is complicated because it's like, was he into the cuckolding and hot wife stuff?

29:17Again, I got to Google that because he was actually into it. Or was that fetish a way to like transform his legitimate feelings into something else so he could live with them, basically? Right. Is he sublimating? Again, I have no idea if that word applies. Is he channeling, let's say, his hurt and his shame into some fetish that makes them quote unquote fun when really there are very deep and complicated feelings underneath that are going unaddressed? Yeah, that is a really good question. Also, interestingly, it's a fetish that they both got to share, even though she was the one going off and having most of the fun, which might have allowed them to stay connected to each other, even when this affair with the podcaster was driving them apart.

29:58And then he goes off and has his own relationship with that other woman and he doesn't tell her, which I think is very significant, right? This is not like the other, his chance to do their fetish thing. It was totally different because they have this arrangement where everything's supposed to be on the table, right? And everyone knows everything and everyone's consenting, but this is obviously not what happened with his relationship. So by starting his own thing secretly, I do wonder, was he evening the scales a little bit, even though it was outside the rules? Was he getting back at our friend here a little?

30:22Yeah. Like a tit for tat, like you did this, now I get to do this kind of thing. Yeah. Or maybe he was asserting some autonomy after being put through the ringer here. Some independence. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not just as cuck who's going to sit back while you hurt my feelings, even though I totally agreed to this whole arrangement. I can do things too. Exactly. I'm sure there was a lot going on for him in that other relationship. And who knows, maybe he and that other woman really connected and offered something meaningful to each other. Maybe they are the right match. I don't know. I would be curious to know if they're still together and where they are now.

30:50But look, what I'm getting at is this. Not wanting to worry about other people's feelings is a very rich area for you to explore because obviously it's a theme for you. It happened with your ex-husband. And also it kind of happened with podcaster. It happened when he started being more honest with you about what he wanted, and then you pulled away. And it happened when you ghosted him instead of formally breaking up with him. Definitely some avoidance there. I mean, that's literally what ghosting is. I think it also happened when he reacted to you treating him more casually. You called that a temper tantrum.

31:20I would be curious to know if it really was a tantrum or if maybe it just felt that way to you. And he felt that you were being harsh and careless with him. You said that was unfair because that time around he initiated things with you, which, look, I see what you're getting at, but that doesn't mean that you didn't surprise him and possibly hurt him in the way that you responded or didn't respond to his very honest feelings about how much he liked you. And look, it's perfectly fine to go through stages of life where you want to be selfish. You want to keep things casual. That's okay. Like you said, you're trying to figure out what you want from the people in your life, and you should.

31:54But not wanting to worry about other people's feelings ever, not wanting to be appropriately attuned to the experience of a partner or a friend or a family member, that's a different thing. I do wonder if other people's feelings, especially the feelings of a romantic partner, are challenging for you. I get the sense that they can scare you a little bit sometimes. Maybe you don't feel up to the task of holding those feelings for somebody else or even making room for them. Or maybe it's hard for you to factor them into your decisions in a way that doesn't feel limiting, doesn't feel controlling.

32:25So that's what I would explore right now, because yes, being true to yourself is important. Knowing what you want, obviously crucial, but knowing what other people want from you, what they deserve from you, what they can expect from you reasonably based on the terms of your relationship and just like being respectful and available to other people, given the nature of your relationship, that's really important too. And until you learn how to do that, you might run into these same conflicts again and again in the future. It's really interesting. In a way, our friend here is brave slash bold. she's courageously seeking out these experiences unconventional meaningful stuff and she's just willing to risk a lot she's bumping up against people along the way but then it when it comes down to like the authentic vulnerable deep stuff like real relationships with these people taking them seriously staring their feelings in the face and going wow i see that you're hurt or scared or angry or you want more from me whatever that is i think that scares the crap out of her or she might just not have met the person that she wants to do that stuff with yet.

33:22And if that's, look, that's fair if that's the case. But if that's what she truly wants, which she says she does, she's got to confront this and grow, which means going back, however back you got to go, childhood, whatever, while she moves forward. So look, I hope you get to do that, my friend. And if you ever want to holler at another podcaster once your EQ bumps up a viewpoint. Please don't. Why do you have to go there? Don't do it. Gabe's DMs are definitely open is all I'm saying. My hokas are taken. I knew you were going to say that. Not the hoka part, but the part directing it to me. I don't know.

33:53I'll have to see if this polycule of ours can accommodate one more person. TBD on that. Actually, maybe take a break from podcasters for a little while. As you're learning, we're all a bunch of needy, love-starved, attention whores. Even Gabe, who has about as much drama in his life as a geranium. And now for the 10-inch d*** of deals and discounts. We'll be right back. Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. It is your support of our advertisers that keeps the lights on around. It keeps me in stylish new hokas. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are all searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.

34:26Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, next up. Hey guys, I run a clothing company and I have a local competitor who's been imitating my hard work. He uses my creative efforts as a template to just copy and expand from. He copies every little detail from product and logo design to the wording on wash instructions and warranty repairs, and I've put an immense amount of thought into these details to make them stand out. He actively reaches out to groups I've worked with in the past. The About Us section on his website even reads like he copy-pasted mine, and edited from there.

35:04I also find him to be dishonest and greenwashy, and know that customers are getting duped by his quote-unquote sustainability play. The worst part is that he advertises himself as being the first one on the block, which is inaccurate, and customers simply take his word for it. I feel like this makes me look like the copycat. Yeah, that is infuriating. I feel bad for you. That would be so annoying. I've been trying so hard to ignore him and have been focusing on creating new product designs. I don't want to openly shit on him, but it feels like he's not acting in the spirit of small business. I'm so frustrated by his imitation game and annoyed that our customers get our brands confused.

35:41I absolutely love what I do, am passionate about the mission, and have put so much hard work into making this thing successful. But this whole BS with the company up the road is ruining this for me. Any tips on navigating the situation? signed tired of putting on a smile while this dude is straight jocking my style as i said before i totally get why this is so frustrating you obviously put a lot of love and thought into your product and then some jabroni down the street comes along copy paste and then rewrites it with chat gpt and then tells everybody he was there first and these are his ideas i would be angry too it's funny gabe in a way this is a huge testament to her work it's a compliment really Right.

36:20By copying her, he's tacitly admitting that she does a lot of things really well and he can't do them himself. But in another way, it's a dirty move. Absolutely. It's pretty disrespectful. And like she said, not really in the spirit of small business. I'll tell you that. I found that comment especially interesting because I know what she means. Small businesses are supposed to be wholesome and collaborative. And there's this feeling of we're all in this together. We can all win. Right. But the reality is they are competitors. They're both apparel companies selling clothes on the same block, apparently very similar clothes.

36:46So I'm with her. This guy sounds squirrely and aggressive and frankly, not very creative. But at the same time, I think what she's coming to terms with is she's playing by the small business philosophy of Kumbaya and let's all play nice. And he's playing by the rules of the jungle, basically. Right. Yeah. Well, he's unscrupulous. And he's kind of calling her bluff, like, go ahead. Let's see what you're going to do about it. Right. Meanwhile, he's taking business away from her or at least trying to. So look, if you wanted to, you might have some legal tools available to you here. I'm not sure if you've copyrighted or trademarked any of your logo designs or product designs, but if you have, you could sue this guy for infringement.

37:21I mean, it's super expensive. You probably wouldn't really do that, but you could also send what's called a trademark infringement cease and desist letter that might spook him enough to knock it off. Now, you'll probably need a lawyer for that. It wouldn't cost you too much money, but if you don't want to hire a lawyer, and I understand that, you can download cease and desist templates online, they're pretty boilerplate. Or you can ask chat GPT to write one for you and then pay a lawyer a fraction of their usual fee to look it over, give you notes, make adjustments, and most importantly, send it from their letterhead.

37:49Because if you send a cease and desist letter to me, I'm like, whatever. But if I get it from a lawyer, it's like, oh, they hired somebody. It's a lot scary. By the way, our listener from the other week who asked whether AI was going to make his legal consulting career obsolete is absolutely freaking out at your chat GPT pitch right now. That's right. That's right. I know I thought about him as I was saying that, but this is the world we live in now, man. So the wording on the wash instructions, the warranty, the repairs, the about us section on your website, that might not be as defensible and enforceable.

38:16And I'm sure it's got like relatable, cool language in it. I get it. This was never really my area of law, but my sense is that that more functional language is gonna be harder to protect than an image or a design. And I'm just not sure how much energy I'd spend trying to get this guy to stop copying that stuff. Yeah, it's annoying. Yes, it stings. but I'd let that stuff roll off your back more than the more meaningful design theft. So yeah, like ignore it and do better, but Dark Jordan wants to pitch some solutions. Please, I'm so excited to hear these. What do you have? You could create an anonymous website where you write about this guy's shady practices, the fake sustainability play, but he's probably slash possibly going to know it's you, and it can really be easy to track a website back to somebody, so you got to make sure you have like domain privacy and all that stuff.

39:00but you could consider hiring somebody on Fiverr to leave like 75 or 750 negative reviews on his business, on Trustpilot, Yelp, wherever sort of these places are graded. This is clearly unethical. This could blow up in your face. It is likely illegal, depending on how you go about this. If he sells the t-shirts through his own website, not much you can do, but if he uses an e-commerce platform for his business, a web hosting company, stuff like that, you could tell those vendors that he's ripping off your designs and lying about his sustainability practices and then point them to all of those fake reviews as reinforcement.

39:35You could also send them cease and desist letters because they are hosting your copyrighted content. You're essentially copyright striking his website and e-commerce pages. But again, using fake reviews to make your case is very dodgy. Sending cease and desist letters to suppliers and vendors is less dodgy. So look, right now, this guy is a dirty competitor, a thorn in your side. He's the enemy, basically. But he might also be pushing you to grow. Because one way he might be pushing you to grow is by forcing you to continue innovating and serving customers in a way that he cannot copy. For example, he might be able to steal your logo or your t-shirt design, but he obviously can't come up with more original designs or take care of customers the way you do or run your business with the spirit that you do.

40:19I agree. People who shamelessly steal other people's work rarely have the discipline, the resourcefulness, the thoughtfulness to run a business, well, it's beyond them. Yeah, for sure. He might be clever or efficient in certain ways, but I doubt somebody like this is going to, I don't know, take amazing care of a customer and seamlessly handle their return and treat their employees with kindness and passion. But you can. You are the gal who obsesses over the wording on your warranty policy, on your return policy. So you're probably a dream business owner to deal with. You know, your vendors like you, your customers love you.

40:52The other way this guy is pushing you to grow is by forcing you to decide what to focus on, where to spend your time and energy. I, as you can imagine, have dealt with so many annoying people over the years, so many shady competitors, especially when I was in the training and coaching industry. And I'm telling you, obsessing over the ways that they're screwing you, not a good use of your resources. In fact, one of my old business partners, that's what all he thought about. He was always obsessed with other people. He never really produced anything because he was always playing defense. And look, it's not gonna make this guy stop.

41:22It's going to distract you from all the valuable stuff that you could be doing. If you let this guy occupy too much of your attention, if you let him make you angry and scared, then in a really messed up way, he's winning. And that might even be what he wants. Something I really had to learn over the years, and it took me a while to realize, how you allocate your mental, emotional resources, what you choose to care about, basically, that is such a crucial part of being a business owner. Because as you have all heard a million times, there's only so many hours in a day and so many things require your attention.

41:52So you have to be disciplined. You've built a beautiful brand here. You built it with love, built it with care, creativity, a generous spirit. Keep leading with those qualities and trust that they will win out in the long term. Because at the end of the day, the stuff other people can easily copy, that's usually the least meaningful part of what you do. And maybe part of your job right now is to keep finding the things that he can't copy and keep investing in those, just one more way that this Yahoo might end up serving you in a strange way. And look, we're rooting for you. Good luck. You can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com.

42:27Keep your emails concise. Use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job a lot easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, your stepdad's got your nudes, your neighbors are eavesdropping on your therapy sessions through the wall, or your teenage niece is pregnant with her grandfather's child. You heard me, right? Can't stop thinking about that one from last week, Gabe, that one was just horrific. So sad. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday at Jordan Harbinger dot com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. By the way, if you haven't signed up yet, come check out our newsletter.

42:56We bit wiser. It's a bite sized gem from a past episode from media you delivered straight to your inbox once a week. So if you want to keep up with the wisdom from our thousand plus episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out. You can sign up at Jordan Harbinger dot com slash news. All right, next up. Hey, Jordan and Gabe. Four years ago, I started dating a 32-year-old guy who represented himself as an entrepreneur. I was 20 years old, living with my parents, and I desperately needed to live alone so I could grow up, although my parents discouraged me from spending the extra rent money.

43:29Then this guy showed up, and being a naive young lady, I moved into his flat. I spent a few hours in the kitchen every day, made sure he always had dinner ready, He cleaned, did his laundry, all while having a nine-to-five job. He bought a dog without me knowing, and the poor thing was shut away in his office every day. So I became his mother and dog walker. I even lent my boyfriend all my savings. Oof. I do not like where this is heading. After three months, I started to have a weird feeling when he came home late after work. Sometimes he was euphoric and barely looked me in the eye. Hmm. Is he a podcaster, by any chance?

44:06I was just thinking the same thing. I was just thinking, man, that would be amazing. One of my dreams is to receive two letters from two people in the same situation and hear the story from each of their perspectives. Oh, that would be so fun. We got to make that happen somehow. Put our heads together. So she goes on. I ignored my intuition, but got angry. He was surprised when he needed to heat up his dinner himself and became angry when I didn't wash his clothes. Man child. Interesting. So she didn't want to come right out and say, I think you're cheating on me, but she kind of retaliated in all these little ways.

44:35Yeah. Yeah, the message is, I'm mad at you, but I don't want to say anything. You're just going to have to figure it out when you pick up your underwear and it's still got streaks on it from last week. So gross. Why? I'm mad at you is one message, and the other message is stop taking me for granted, for sure. And the third message is you need to get a bidet. Truly. I think it says a lot about both of them, actually, the way that this was handled. His weird time management and work trips became more frequent. Sometimes I couldn't eat. My cortisol levels spiked when he fell asleep in bed next to me.

45:06I needed to know the truth. I shouldn't have, but I got into his phone. He was texting girls and having fun on dating sites. Yeah, that tracks. Also, should you really not have, you knew he was cheating. I mean, you know, whatever. You got confirmation. I told him I considered this cheating and left. Good. Well done. He then sent me several I'm sorry messages and photos of him crying, including photos of the dog and how it's sad I'm not there. Ah, such manipulative bullshit and also completely performative, obviously. The next weekend, I was back. No! Shortly thereafter, during a sleepless night, I looked at his phone again, and you can imagine what I found.

45:47So I started an account on a sex site as well, and did the same thing he did, just so I could feel better. Oh boy, this is bananas. Yeah, what a pair, huh? I want to be compassionate because I know she's young and naive by her own admission. We all do immature stuff in our 20s, but this is highly dysfunctional. I'm going to shag a bunch of strangers from the Internet. That'll show you to shag a bunch of strangers from the Internet. Yeah. Come on. Well, I think we're hearing from somebody who didn't know how to respond. Of course. In the ideal way at the time. So she goes on. Then one night at a party, sitting on a windowsill smoking cigarettes, I asked him why he was still cheating and he didn't have an answer.

46:25He just lied over and over again. So I asked him again and again in a calm voice. That made him angry. He grabbed my neck and started to choke me, tipping me out of the window. I grabbed the window frame and dug my nails into his face so he couldn't push me out. Wow. Okay. That is terrifying. That escalated into a horrible fight. I took his car keys and sat behind the wheel to calm down and go to the police. But on the way, I caused a car accident. What? Wow. A car accident? on the way to see the cops after he tried to strangle you and throw you out of a window. Cool Lifetime movie we're hearing about here.

47:03Jeez. Yikes. So she goes on, no one was injured or killed. They took me to the hospital and police station where I filed a criminal complaint for injury to health. What a night that was. But two months later, we got together again because of the good times we had in bed. Ugh, okay, well, I'm losing sympathy for you at this point. Sometime after, I found a good guy, so it was easy to get away from this manipulator. Huh. Well, okay, look, I'm obviously glad you did, but interesting it took a new guy to get you to leave this old guy who tried to kill you. That's another piece of this that is yours to look at for sure.

47:40A year later, I left Europe and moved to Canada to have a change of scenery and find who I was. I did EMDR therapy, started meditation, and quit smoking, drinking alcohol, and taking party drugs. Well, amazing. That's great. I'm actually extremely proud of you for that. That sounds like a huge evolution. Amazing. So she goes on. Eventually, I found my current partner. Okay, just to be very clear here, I don't know if this current partner is the good guy she left the bad guy for or a totally new guy in the story. But either way, we've been together for two years, but no matter how much we love each other, I just can't get rid of the feeling that he would cheat on me or that he thinks about other girls.

48:19I'm looking for red flags, but my partner doesn't have any and that scares me the most because they can show up later. This has made me become a horrible person. I don't want to have thoughts of cheating in my stable relationship. I want to forgive my monster of a former partner, but it's never been so hard. I know I'm going to ruin the most important relationship of my life if I don't change. Okay, that right there, feeling like you're going to lose something or someone really important if you don't grow, that's a really great place to get to. And I'm actually very heartened to hear you say that because now you have a really good reason to address this.

48:52And you're ready, so I just want to commend you for grasping the stakes here and for your courage. Is it possible to forgive someone who made you feel like a worthless, tiny person? What would you recommend I do so I don't think all men are monsters? Signed, still scared, gasping for air, and a bit worse for wear after getting out of this nightmare. Well, great questions, and what a story. My God, you've been through a lot here. I obviously want to say, look, I'm sorry you ended up in this relationship and that this guy treated you so poorly. He sounds awful and manipulative and you didn't deserve that.

49:27But another part of me is going, man, you needed to go through this to learn about a certain type of partner and to confront your own wounds, which you are already doing beautifully and which I'm super proud of you for. So yes, of course, it's possible to forgive somebody who made you feel terrible about yourself, but I'm not entirely sure forgiving this guy is appropriate. I mean, he took you for granted. He cheated on you. He took your money. he manipulated you into coming back. But worst of all, let us not forget, he assaulted you and almost threw you out of a window where you may well have died.

49:58So I am not sure that this guy deserves your forgiveness. Most importantly, though, I just don't think forgiving him is necessary. You're looking for healing here, and you're looking for psychological freedom from this traumatizing relationship, and you're hoping that that'll come from forgiving him so you can move on. But I'm just not sure how much that's going to do for you. Even if you could snap your fingers and forgive him, you'd still be left with this sort of post-traumatic response to your new partner. These painful memories, this lingering suspicion. Whether you forgive your ex-boyfriend is kind of besides the point, in my opinion.

50:30Your second question, what to do so you don't think all men are monsters, I think that's the better question. And the answer to that is you need to continue your therapeutic process. You need to talk about this relationship and explore all of these feelings, the old ones with your ex, the new ones with your current partner, including this paranoia and fear that you now have. And you need to do that with him, with a therapist, with close friends, with yourself, and invite those experiences and feelings into your close relationships where you can hopefully process them. But the therapy piece, that is probably the most important part.

51:02I am thrilled to hear that you did EMDR. We hear great things about it. I hope it's reduced your trauma symptoms as it does for so many people. But in your case, the deeper growth and healing you're looking for to stop viewing all men as monsters, you're probably going to find that in a more dynamic therapy over a longer period of time that isn't just about trauma symptom reduction specifically, but about that really primitive foundational stuff that led you into this relationship that's informing all of your experiences. So I know I'm saying what we say so often on the show, but I would really encourage you, and I know this will surprise no one, to find a therapist who works in this way.

51:41And you know this, man? And to Jordan's point a moment ago, what a great way to begin your work with a new therapist. I'm in a relationship with this amazing guy, but I can't really enjoy it because I'm still traumatized by my last relationship. And if I don't get this right, I might lose him. With the right therapist, a goal like that is going to kick off some truly incredible work. And that work will be about your past relationship and this relationship. But it's also going to end up being about everything. It's going to end up being about you. And I think that's going to be a very rewarding journey.

52:12The other thing that this kind of therapy might bring up for you, interestingly, is the possibility of forgiveness for your ex. But if you get there, I think it's going to be because you'll come to understand him a lot better, right? You'll come to understand the wounds and the patterns that drove him. And more importantly, you'll come to better understand the role that you played in that relationship. Consciously, unconsciously, why you chose him, how you related to him, how sex functioned in your relationship, what you were trying to work out with this guy, especially given that you went back to him several times.

52:45In my experience, when you get a really good handle on how you participated in a certain dynamic, it becomes a lot easier to forgive somebody who hurt you. Because then you see more clearly, okay, I was responsible for this, he was responsible for that. Now I can see more clearly where the lines are. So for example, you might never forgive your ex for almost throwing you out of a window. How could you, right? It's horrifying. You could have died. But alongside that anger, that sense of justice, you might also be able to go, okay, but I chose to stay with somebody who didn't treat me well. And I now understand that I was enacting such and such pattern in our relationship.

53:21I was drinking, I was using drugs, I was going to sketchy parties, which is why I was sitting in that window in the first place, just to take one example from your story. If you do that work, you're going to have the insights and the breakthroughs that you need. So if forgiveness is appropriate, you will be in touch with it eventually. If it's not appropriate or you're just not ready, you won't. But either way, you're going to be focused on something much more important here, which is your growth, your healing, your relationships with your new partner, with your family, most importantly, with yourself.

53:51I think an underdeveloped relationship with yourself. At the end of the day, that's the root cause of all of these challenges as an adult. I would start there. So I wish I could snap my fingers and make you trust men again or tell you go meditate for six months and read these books and you'll be good. But that is just not how growth works. Meditate, read. Obviously, that's helpful. But wounds, they get healed in relationship, in action. So it's time to drag them into the light and dig into them. You've never been more ready or more equipped, we're sending you a big hug and wishing you and your new partner all the best.

54:26You know what's a good replacement for your lazy, cheating, manipulative mess of an ex-boyfriend? The fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you find our advice valuable or entertaining in the least, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support the sponsors who make this show possible. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are all searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Or if you need a code, you can't find a code, you're wondering if we have a code, email me, jordan at jordanharbinger.com.

54:57I will dig up that code for you. Yes, it is that important that you support those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, what's next? Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm 26 years old, and I recently started my dream job as an officer in the Coast Guard. This has been a goal of mine since the age of 12. And after many applications, I finally commissioned. Congratulations, man. That is super exciting. Wow. Off to a running start. I've been in for seven months now and have deployed once already for a 60-day patrol on the ship I'm attached to. I love my job. It's great and extremely fulfilling.

55:36The problem is that my wife and I are both very family-oriented. We both miss the great people we once saw every weekend, brothers, nieces, nephews, parents. My fears are that people will forget us and great memories will be made without us. I fear that the kids we raise will not have the relationship my wife and I had with our families. I fear that our parents will pass while we're gone. Yeah, that's tough. I mean, I think about that too, and my parents live across the street. So I get it, man. Now that I'm in the Coast Guard, I can finally start applying for flight school. If I get selected, my chances of being stationed close to home are slim, as we relocate every two to three years.

56:14I feel that if I choose my career, I'll be putting that above my family and depriving my future kids of their family. I'm seeing now that my dreams have flaws. Should I leave after my obligated service and return home, or should I achieve my ultimate goal? Signed, put my dreams in the back seat or climb to 30 ,000 feet? Right. Well, first of all, what you're describing is something that a lot of military families deal with. Actually, people in all fields that require this kind of sacrifice, but especially in the military, it's not an easy lifestyle. It requires a ton of flexibility. And yeah, staying consistently close with your family, I think that does take a hit.

56:51And it sounds like that'll get even harder when you finally become a pilot. So it's not that your dreams have flaws. It's that your dreams have opportunity costs. And opportunity costs, they can be brutal. We just cannot have it all at the same time. And that's like a sad, distressing thing to accept. And in your case, it's even more difficult because you have two very compelling values, staying close to their family and chasing your dreams. And this is not just a job. You said you wanted to be in the Coast Guard since you were 12, which that is awesome, by the way. How many of us can say we became the thing we wanted to do since we were 12.

57:25You love what you do. It's exciting. It's fulfilling. I know the feeling well. And it's a launching pad for your career as a pilot, which is gonna be so dope. And it's a great way to take care of your family too. So I really think you've hit a home run here. I don't think the answer is to give up on your dream. When you're lit up by something like this, you can't not do it. Then you're gonna live with a lot of regret and sadness, and that is worse. That's no good. So my first thought for you is, start making peace with the tension of these two goals. What I've learned over the years is that opportunity costs, yes, they're frustrating, but they actually give your life more meaning because they remind you what truly matters to you, what you're willing to give up in order to get what you want.

58:06So in your case, it'll probably mean less time with your extended family, at least for a little while, and that's gonna be painful sometimes, but when you feel that pain, you can also go, this is how much living a life of purpose means to me. For the next few years anyway, I'm putting my dream of flying first and I better stay connected to my passion for it. I better put in everything I can and work my butt off and thrive in flight school because look at what I'm sacrificing to be here. And in that way, you can make this opportunity cost work for you. You can use it to give your career more meaning.

58:36But while you do that, yeah, I would also use these fears to stay as close to your family as you can. So let's get creative. What can you do to mitigate those risks? The ideas that come to my mind are scheduling weekly FaceTimes with your family, making it a ritual to text photos to the family group chat to tell them how much they mean to you. And when your family responds, make sure you respond back. You nurture the connections. Another good idea, you could write maybe a monthly newsletter type of thing or a blog. I know I'm going back to the 90s here to update everybody on you and your family's adventures in the Coast Guard, flight school, all that.

59:07I bet your family would love to read your stories, see your photos, hear your voice notes. And maybe most importantly, when you guys do see your family, make every moment count. Hug your parents extra tight. Tell them how much they mean to you. You're standing by the barbecue with your siblings. Be super present. Be generous. Listen. Share. Just soak it all up, man. And then when you're at the dinner table with everybody at Christmas, stand up. Take a moment to tell everybody how much these get-togethers mean to you. I'm choking up here, Gabe. The chasing your dream is hard because it takes you away from them, but you love them.

59:40They matter to you. Every guy in the family is going to make fun of you for this. Just let them do it. Again, soak it in. Those words are going to be powerful and your family's going to hear that and they're going to go, damn, I need to be just as present and generous and connected with him as he's being with us. You're going to lead by example, something I'm sure they're going to teach you in the Coast Guard. By the way, that's going to make all this easier too. Man, I love those ideas, Jordan. I really think that's his only option because he has to pursue this dream. He has to. And the only option is to make it work for him and his family.

1:00:10Now, as for your big fear that your parents will die while you're away, I know that one hurts the most. And that's another big one that you might want to make peace with. I actually think you're going to have to, because first of all, the reality is that they could pass away when you're close by too, and that is not going to be easy either. What matters a lot more is the quality of the time that you spend with them while they're here. And second, in my view, you cannot put your life on hold or give up your dreams for your family. My feeling, and I realize that other people might disagree, other cultures see this differently, but my feeling is that we need to love and appreciate our parents, especially if they're good parents, of course, but not sacrifice our entire lives for them.

1:00:51It's very easy to let your love for your parents, for the rest of your family, to become a kind of caretaking. It's easy to subordinate your life to their comfort, their needs. Now, unless those needs are profound, like they're sick or they can't live alone or whatever, then at your age, as you become a professional and a man, I think it's crucial that you individuate and build a life and a career that matter to you. And that will also take care of you and, you know, reward you well, pay you well, so you can support your family and yes, even your parents if they ever need that. So yeah, that means risking that they might, might pass away while you guys are living, say, across the country.

1:01:28And that's a really sad thought. But you might also want to sit with that sadness, become a little friendlier with it, discuss it with your wife, and see how you guys want to factor that fear into your life decisions. Also, just because you fear that you're going to be away while they die, that doesn't mean that you will. I mean, you might be right there with them. You might somehow end up being stationed near them. You might move them out to where you guys are at some point. You just don't know what your life will look like. So I would also try not to put too much stock in the worst case scenarios, which as we all know, the mind loves to conjure up.

1:02:01I totally agree with that. And I realize how easy it is for me to endorse this. My in-laws live just a few minutes away. My parents live across the street now. Jen and I are surrounded by our family. So I have it really easy. But I can tell you for sure, if my dream were to fly airplanes instead of talking into this microphone, you better believe I'd be moving to where the work is, South Carolina or whatever. And if being a pilot means moving around every few years, then I'd be helping my kids learn how to be flexible and make friends quickly and nurture their relationships in the same way. So I hope that helps, man.

1:02:29I have a feeling your career is about to take off literally in a really exciting way and that you're going to bring a lot to this calling of yours. That's gonna have ripple effects across your life with your wife, your kids, your whole family. And I think it's really important that they see their father chase his dream and excel at it. And if you make the effort to love your parents, even when you're not always together in person, I think you'll find that this trade-off won't be as painful as it seems. And if it is, hey, just accept this is how life works and part of our job is to kind of surrender to it and keep asking ourselves what really matters to us.

1:02:58And that can change over time, totally fair, but don't let it paralyze you or tie you up in knots too much right now. especially while you're laying the groundwork for what sounds like an amazing career. And I'm wishing you the best, sending you and your tribe a big old hug. Hope y 'all enjoyed that. I wanna thank everybody who wrote in this week and everybody who listened. Thank you so much. Go back and check out Konstantin Samoylov about his escape from Putin's Russia and the fallout that he's dealing with right now. If you haven't heard that episode yet, the best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network.

1:03:27That's the circle of people I know, like, and trust. I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in six-minute networking. It is free, it is not gross, It is not schmoozy. It's on the Thinkific platform at 6minutenetworking.com. The drills take a few minutes per day. This is the stuff I wish I knew 20 years ago. Dig that well before you're thirsty, folks. Build relationships before you need them. It's all free at 6minutenetworking.com. Show notes on the website, jordanharbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram.

1:04:00You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. in. Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love, and if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today.

1:04:28In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show with a retired chef that somehow infiltrated the illicit North Korean arms trade. There was a meeting where people can come and see how North Korea is the propaganda way. It was like three hours praising Kim Il-sung by what he did for the country. When people ask me, how is it to go to North Korea? quite difficult to describe because it's like your whole body is on overtime. You know you are being followed and what do I say and what do I do?

1:05:09How do I react to things? I'm going to the U.S. to meet up with a CIA agent. I was like, wow. And I find out how the agent thinks. One of the most important things he taught me was to be a perfect mole or undercover agent is that you have to be 95 % yourself and then 5 % mole. The last 5 % is the one who observed and I was really good to networking with people. Without people actually know I was networking with them, everything was recorded. So I just literally took the pants down on a whole regime exposing their weapons program. It's a never ending story. For more on how Ulrich the mole, a Danish chef and family man wound up working undercover in North Korea to expose its illicit arms trade, Check out episode 527 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

1:06:04This episode is sponsored in part by Conspirituality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling New Age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy-mad yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called The Conspirituality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies.

1:06:36An interesting episode to check out is called Speaking Truth to Goop, where Jen Gunter breaks down the pseudoscience behind the wellness industry in a way that is super entertaining and eye-opening. It's sharp, funny, and makes you a lot harder to fool, which, if you listen to this show, you know I'm all about that. From exploring cults to analyzing our cultural and political landscape, the Conspirituality Podcast will help you stay informed against misinformation and resist fear tactics. Find Conspirituality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is sponsored in part by the Something You Should Know Podcast.

1:07:06Finding a great new podcast can feel like searching for a needle in a haystack. Let me save you some hassle. Check out Something You Should Know with my friend Mike Carruthers. Every episode is packed with fascinating insights that you can actually use. Mike interviews top experts on topics that shape your life. like how to optimize your brain chemistry, the best and worst ways to apologize, probably could have used that recently, why couples hate to talk about money. No matter the topic, Mike asks the questions you'd want to ask, getting straight to the good stuff, and the conversations are always engaging, always insightful, guaranteed to leave you a little smarter than before.

1:07:35They've got thousands of five-star reviews, but do you even need that? I'm recommending it. You don't need other people's opinion, right, at this point, I would hope. Anyway, give it a listen. Just search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts. Look for the bright yellow light bulb and start listening to something you should know.