1182: Contractual Cuddles Leave Roommate Befuddled | Feedback Friday

22:13But if you're like, I wanna keep you, it sounds to me, man, and again, I'm putting words in this guy's mouth and these might not be fair, but it sounds like he's like, I want you kind of on the back burner because I like the snuggle thing and I want to feel like you like me and I kind of like you, but I don't actually want to do any of the other harder stuff that's involved in having a relationship because I'm not ready to do that. It's like, she's clearly not on the same page. Yeah, I think that's really what's happening. I think their feelings are just not totally in sync. Right. That's what's happening.

22:40Yeah. And they have different interests and different options. And the way that he is showing up is also maybe giving her some pause about whether to pursue. So whatever you do, man, keep doing it thoughtfully, kindly, respectfully, but also in a way that doesn't make your problems her problems. I think this is a situation where Susan's gonna need you to lead. Because my sense is that she doesn't quite have the tools that you're about to develop, some combination of talking and reading the room, and that's gonna clear things right up. I know it hurts, but it's all part of growing up, and I feel patronizing saying that to a 32-year-old man, but it's true.

23:11I mean, I would say that to a 40-year-old man. In a few months, you're gonna look back at this chapter, and I think you will literally laugh because it taught you some important stuff, and it's so much easier to handle, I think, than you realize. Good luck. Jordan, I know this is not the point of his letter, but camping at EDC sounds like a minor nightmare to me. I mean, when I was in my 20s, maybe, and I did go to Burning Man and we camped and it was cool, but you could not pay me enough to go to EDC camping now. I'm actually still kind of shocked that you liked it so much. I just didn't see that coming.

23:41What is the deal? Camping? My brother in Christ, I stayed at the Bellagio, okay? First of all, and it's like hours of traffic to get in there no i took the uber helicopter thing in and out i am too old way too old to be camping in a hundred degree weather near a racetrack in vegas now i understand why you love edc okay here i was picturing you sleeping in like a an rei rented sleeping bag 10 feet from susan's low-key dick appointment yeah no thank you admittedly it is much more fun when you don't have to camp in 110 degree heat and you can leave whenever you want i'm at the pool during the day i'm getting those scammy iv bag drips of vitamins and stuff it's a different experience for me like my dinner before edc is at joe's stone crab and i'm like getting a mixology thing and eating king crab legs i am not in traffic waiting ordering funnel cake from the stand by uh by testo yeah exactly i understand okay it's such a different image no i am not listening to dubstep next to one of those fire blowing things waiting in line for chicken fingers.

24:47No, sir. I didn't realize that you were having this succession experience of EDC. You were like rolling in and out like one of the people on what's that show about the traitors on Showtime. Oh, God, I don't know. It's just me and Drew Carey definitely not doing anything that would be against our contract because he's the host of The Price is Right and I'm the host of the Jordan Harbour Show. And now we have a cuddle agreement that we need to honor. So snuggle up with the amazing sponsors that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by LinkedIn. Most platforms are built to distract you.

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26:17Take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. All of the deals discount codes and ways to support the podcast are searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. If that doesn't work, email us, jordan at jordanharbinger.com. I'll dig up the code for you. Thank you for supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, what's next? Dear Handsome Boy No. 1 and Phileas Fogg. Wait, what's that? Am I supposed to know what that is? That's one of those literature things that's going to out me as being completely ignorant and undereducated. I had to look it up, too.

26:48Okay, thank God. I did not recognize this name. So he's the main character in the book Around the World in 80 Days. Did he travel with 16 bags, too, and Starlink Internet? They were probably trunks. Yeah, like a footlocker. You know those guys back then, like the colonial Brits would go to all these crazy places with like 32 trunks? They're called footlockers. Oh, that's what a footlocker is. They're called footlockers. It's basically a giant chest. Yeah, instead of backpacks or suitcases or something reasonable, that's when they're like whacking their way through the jungle or someone else is doing that part for them.

27:17And they're walking through with their like monocle in their boots and they're like, come on, chaps, what's taking so long? And there's like a bunch of shirtless dudes carrying 16 pairs of outerwear like, don't get my smoking jacket wet, you nincompoop. They're knee-deep mud. Because one of the trunks has like four of their dining tuxedos because they would have to uphold civilization when they were having dinner in the bush. Yeah. That was not me for the record. But the idea of me as a colonial British person in Liberia Airport is weirdly hitting close to them. So yes, the letter goes on. I only had a sister growing up and my 55 year old brother-in-law is the brother I never had Seven months ago.

27:55He suffered a stroke and was not found for hours. Oh, man It was very scary and very touch and go He had to have one third of his skull removed to relieve pressure. So his brain swells. Yes I guess if you have a stroke your brain swells or maybe he just hit his head and his brain swell That's so scary. Yes, very intense. Jeez Since that time, his wife, who's an Ivy League MD-PhD and the CEO of a pharmaceutical company, has acted in ways that defy explanation. She significantly limited visitors when the first happened and would only allow visitors to see him with her present. After he was airlifted to one of the best hospitals in the country, she cut off most of his family of origin, two parents, eight siblings, seven spouses-in-law, from seeing him, and stopped reporting on his condition.

28:39She now controls every single aspect of his life. No one except one brother saw him for four months. He was later moved to a rehab center where much the same occurred. Then he was moved to another facility. No matter where he was, she required all visitors to be cleared by her. She barely reports on his condition, but when she does, she tells people in their vacation community that he's in a coma. A friend didn't believe her, went to see him, and was thrown out. Others in the community reported the same. We have proof in writing of different statuses shared to different groups. Then she went to court and had him declared legally incompetent.

29:16She's declared health issues with him that we have proof never existed. She says her husband spent 28 years protecting her from us. She's never explained what that means. She tells people he hates his parents, but before the stroke, he visited them three or four times a week to check in on them because they live independently in their 80s 10 minutes from their home. My wife's parents got a lawyer involved and thanks to his initial efforts, we were finally told where he was. It was more of a warehouse than a care facility. We were all allowed to see him. He still has a sense of humor. He can hold conversations.

29:47He remembers childhood. He evaluates real estate deals, which is his career. But the facility won't even clean or shave him. His sister, who's a registered nurse, did that. She also brought him new clothes, but the clothes went missing after a few days. His wife took his iPhone and tablet. A friend of his who works for Apple got him a custom iPad for stroke victims, but the password was changed and then it disappeared soon after. At best, he has Netflix. He had to resort to watching Spider-Man 3 with Tobey Maguire on Easter. Oh my God, Spider-Man 3. Not even Spider-Man 1, the best one, or the new one with the guy from the social network.

30:24Okay, that's the final straw. Not being clean, not being changed, part of your skull missing, stealing your clothes, that's tough, but they're making the guy watch Tobey Maguire movies. No, I kid, this is horrible. I'm very sorry this is happening to you guys. This is very sketchy, by the way. Jeez. This is very tragic, but your hot Tobey Maguire take is so funny. I did not know you hated him so much. Yeah, I know. After talking with Molly Bloom and reading her book and stuff, I remember in her book, she talks about Tobey Maguire. And on the show, she mentioned Tobey Maguire. That's episode 120, talk about throwback.

30:57And then I met her randomly at an event. And I was like, hey, Molly. And then we started talking And I was like, I'm surprised you didn't get sued by Tobey Maguire for what you said about him in the book. And she's like, it's so much worse than what I put into print. Oh, really? Wow. And I was like, oh, OK. Because what she said about him, from what I remember, was pretty bad. Yes. He did not sound like an easy customer. And she's not the only one. I mean, I lived in Hollywood for a while. And you talk with people. And you're like, who's the biggest dick that people think is great? And it's like, that name just comes up over and over again.

31:25Yeah. Wow. OK. And then it's like, who's nice that looks like a dick? And it's like Robert Downey Jr. here. What is the detail that she included in her book about him? Was it that he brought his own scale or his own counter for the money or something? I don't know. Because he didn't trust her equipment? Maybe. But then also, like, he would goad people who could not afford to lose into losing, like people who are way down and who are not rich and famous. And he would take their money. He just would give them no chance to, like, win it back. And he would rub it in their face. And everybody was like, can we not invite him anymore?

31:54Like, he's a terrible, like other Hollywood people. We were like, and apparently he was terrible to everyone except for Leonardo DiCaprio, basically, and other super famous people who could like affect his career. But if you couldn't do anything for him, he was just like a complete POS. Interesting. Yeah. Well, that tracks, doesn't it? I mean, that's just what I've heard. You know, I have no personal experience. It's not even my opinion. It's other people's opinions as reported on this show. Lawyers. Anyway, what are we talking about? Right. A man who had a stroke and is now being hidden from his family.

32:21Whose life is also being ruined by Tobey Maguire, apparently. After his craniotomy, he needed a third of his skull replaced. Scans were required. His wife would not schedule them. It took legal action to force her to get them scheduled. When asked if he wanted the scans for the skull, he responded, My wife is a good woman and takes care of me. She's taking care of this. What do you make of that, Jordan? That's not a totally scripted response at all. Yeah, does that mean she took the phone and answered for him, or is he brainwashed? Either way, it's bad news. Either way, his brain is exposed. Maybe it's easier to wash that way.

32:54Sorry, that's a disgusting joke. Wow. No, that is vivid, though, isn't it? It is. I mean, the dude's missing a third of his skull. If I was missing a part of my skull, I'd like to think the first question Jen would have is, when do you put that thing back together? When do you close the door on the skull? And meanwhile, she's like, I'm not scheduling the scans to see if he's going to live. She might be rich with her CEO position, but something tells me she kind of doesn't want this guy to make it through this. Let's get into that in a second, because there are more details coming. Yeah. Seven months after his skull was removed, it was finally replaced.

33:23He's now in recovery. Then she hit him again. We have no idea where he is now. So he got moved because they knew where he was. This is so scary and so weird. Someone, maybe a nurse at the facility, maybe a neighbor, called adult protective services. But my sister-in-law used the investigation to tell her husband that we were suing her, that his family was victimizing her, and forcing their 17-year-old daughter to testify. The APS investigator asked my brother-in-law why, as a 55-year-old man, he had no phone. But he made excuses and nothing changed. And the care facility is on her side. He's not getting the physical therapy he needs to walk or function again.

34:04We don't know what the family allegedly did to deserve this. She's never said. This is such a mess. Your sister-in-law, man. She's clearly up to something. But what? Is it just revenge and spite because she has some weird, inexplicable beef with your family? Or is she a psycho-controlling weirdo? I'm kind of getting the latter vibe. I mean, both. It's probably some porqué no los dos, right? I think it's a little bit of column A, a little bit of column B. Or is she trying to isolate him for some other purpose? The sort of functional person in me who doesn't always assume everybody is a psychopathic narcissist is thinking this guy's got money and she doesn't really care about him that much and wants him to die so that she can be free of it.

34:45I hate to say it, but if Feedback Friday is any indication, that's often the reason people do this kind of thing. It just makes me sad to think that that could be why. I'm afraid you're right. I mean, why on earth would you not want your husband's skull put together? Why on earth would you put him in a bad care facility? Look, if she hated the family but loved the husband, she would put him someplace really nice and he would be taken care of. And then she would be like, I'm not telling you where he is. He's fine. And then they would see him and see that he was fine. They saw him and he's not fine and he's in a shithole.

35:13That is not somebody who just wants to take good care of him without family interference. This is somebody who wants to be able to neglect him and keep the family from finding out. That's different. Yeah. But there might also be some practical reasons. He did say that his brother-in-law works in real estate and he's apparently pretty good at it. So yeah, what size is that real estate portfolio? Maybe there's a good amount of money there. But also Again, though, she's the CEO of a pharma company. She's an MD, PhD. She's probably making several hundred thousand slash million dollars for herself.

35:40She can't be doing that badly. But then again, people who have a lot of money, they always want more money. So I don't know. By the way, that detail about her job and her background, so interesting. She is obviously pretty bright. I mean, she must be pretty ambitious to be in that position. And possibly ruthless. I mean, to be the CEO of a pharma company and an MD and a PhD, this is quite the opponent to go up against. She sounds quite manipulative. She's cunning. She has the care facility on her side because she pays the bills. She's got legal protections in place. It sounds like she's gotten her husband to say that she's taking good care of him, which she obviously is not.

36:13That's really scary. And she's got resources because she has money, both his and hers. My question is, how do you have time to gatekeep your husband when you're running a pharmaceutical company? Like, that's a 24-7 job, I imagine. And also you have time to change his iPad password? She's driven, man. I'll give her that or she's got somebody helping her. Who knows? Separately, the year I turned 40 in 2018, I was in a very dark place and sought therapy and medication due to a cancer scare, the stress of running a company, and my business being on the brink of failure. That year, my wife's family planned a bridal shower for someone else on my birthday.

36:48She promised she'd be home for dinner on my 40th. She wasn't. I made dinner for our kids and tried not to cry at the table. She caved to her mother's and sister's pressure and stayed to clean up. She was very late. I'm still not over that, because she's never done anything beyond offer me easy words. Then, recently, my wife wanted us to take a weekend away, the first time in a long time that she offered to plan something for us. But now her mom is sick. She was diagnosed with broken heart syndrome triggered by everything with my brother-in-law. So the weekend away is now in jeopardy. Maybe it's for the best.

37:23My wife would have let me down anyway. Every time I reach out to her, something pulls her away. Usually it's the kids or her family. Sometimes it's understandable, like medical emergencies. And other times, it's not. No matter what, I'm on the back burner, despite being asked to support everyone. Even her teenage daughters see it. Interestingly, her sister, the one bathing and shaving their brother, once bluntly told me that my wife doesn't prioritize me. Wow. I am beyond tired. I feel invisible. It's now impacting my business. But if I raise the issue, I'm accused of being a heartless, emotionless workaholic.

37:58I'm trying to support my family while supporting the families of my 100 employees and their families. How can I help my brother-in-law in a way that doesn't imperil my fragile marriage or harm my in-laws? How can I help my wife without losing my entire identity? Signed, battling for control and saving an isolated soul when I'm in a dark hole. Wow, dude. Yeah, when it rains, it pours, huh? This is a tough one, man. There's a lot going on here. There are no easy answers. First of all, as you can probably tell, my heart absolutely goes out to you and your wife and her whole family for what he's been through, what his wife is doing to him or with him.

38:34Based on what you've shared, assuming there's no horrific thing your family's done to this woman that you didn't include in your letter, the whole thing is unconscionable. Your sister-in-law is depriving her husband of the care and connection that he needs to recover. And she's depriving you guys of your relationship with your brother-in-law. I mean, it's just not okay at all. If this were happening in my family, I would be freaking furious, and you better believe I'd be in court all the time trying to figure out what to do about this. Honestly, everything you're describing really does sound like elder abuse, possibly even medical kidnapping.

39:04Yes, that's a thing. Medical kidnapping, it's kind of a hard thing to prove, and based on my understanding, it's not a crime in and of itself, but if it involves false imprisonment, which is basically preventing somebody from leaving a place, neglect, abuse, fraud, undue influence, many of which could be at play here, those can be prosecuted under criminal laws. But whether your sister-in-law is actually abusing or kidnapping her husband, I think it's fair to say that the isolation, the inconsistent reports, I mean, who lies to people and says he's in a coma? That's insane. You just don't want people to visit him?

39:37What is going on? The questionable living conditions, to put it mildly, the lack of necessary treatment. When you take a step back, this does paint a picture of coercive control. You know, Gabriel, this just occurred to me as well. Even if she has a massive beef with the family, one, it's not included here. Okay, fine. But two, she lied to their friends in their vacation community and said he's in a coma. Oh, yeah. I almost forgot about that detail. So what is she up to there? Right. So she doesn't want anyone to visit him. Not just, oh, the family sucks, but hey, these are our friends. They're cool.

40:07She doesn't want anyone to visit him. That's different. That sort of underlined, bold highlights this one, even for me, and puts another point in the court of maybe there's not a beef with the family. She's just actually trying to control access to him. You know what's funny? When I first heard that detail, I thought she was saying that to like milk their sympathy. But no, of course not. She's saying that because she wants people to think that they can't talk to him. Exactly. He can't be texted. He can't be visited. He's asleep, which is not true. It's unbelievable. And sadly, vague, coercive control.

40:38That's often how abuse manifests in cases involving vulnerable adults like your brother-in-law. So, okay, let's get tactical for a moment here. First of all, hiring a lawyer, 100 % the right thing to do. I would stay close with your attorney, let him advise you on how to keep pushing back against any dodgy moves by your sister-in-law. The problem is, you said she went to court and had her husband declared legally incompetent. Oh man, that's gonna be hard to overcome. Yes, this is hard to overcome. I'm guessing that means she was granted legal guardianship or conservatorship. Once a judge signs off on that, the petitioner has a ton of power, unfortunately.

41:12She is his legal guardian now. She gets to call most slash all of the shots, and unless the court revokes or modifies that guardianship, well, she can keep doing this legally, even if it's doing him harm. See also Britney Spears, right? So your options are basically this. You could work with your family's attorney to petition the court to review or revoke the guardianship, but that's going to require evidence that your sister-in-law is either incompetent, abusive, or neglectful. That's going to be an uphill battle, especially if she has the resources to fight back, which it sure sounds like she does.

41:42But I'd say, look, this is obviously worth the fight. Now, the fact that she possibly slash probably used false or misleading medical information to convince the court that her husband needed a guardian in the first place and that she was the best or only person for the job, that could be considered fraud. I would start arguing that, and it could be grounds to challenge the guardianship quite effectively. But it will require hard evidence, medical records, conflicting testimony, expert opinions, ideally an attorney who specializes in elder law, guardianship disputes, medical fraud, stuff like that.

42:13So you don't want some attorney who does trust in estates and also some personal injury and auto cases on this. You want somebody who's very familiar with this system. So if that's not your attorney, find another attorney ASAP with this kind of experience. This is a mixed bag. This is an expense and it could take a while. I think luckily, yes, this evil woman has resources, but it sounds like this is the whole family versus one person. So what's good about this is y 'all have the time if you put it together. And look, if everybody donates$500 a month, now you got a lot. If you got 10 people who want to see him, 15 people, you got legal costs covered.

42:49Okay, so I'm sort of speculating here, but I assume some people can afford it and others can't and you can make up the difference. There's also a version of this where a family member, ideally somebody with a medical background like your RN sister-in-law, which is great that somebody like that is in the family, That person could request the court for a limited guardianship, but again, time, money, emotional stress, and probably the involvement of the whole family to get that. Your other option, escalate this to adult protective services. It sounds like they are already investigating. Do this as many times as you have to.

43:17Include specific documented claims with your report. The timeline of events here, photos of neglect, evidence of missing possessions, written statements from visitors, whatever you can. And APS should keep investigating, especially if they get multiple reports. But again, you do have to be prepared for your brother-in-law to defend his wife to APS if they interview him. And you have to be prepared for APS to have their hands tied by this guardianship arrangement. So, bit of a catch-22 there. It can be, but it's still worth doing. Another option I'd look into, see if you can get what's called a patient rights ombudsman involved.

43:51This is an independent advocate. Often they're on staff at a facility, and their job is to protect the rights and welfare of medical patients. In some places, this is called a patient advocate, a grievance coordinator, a resident rights officer. Theoretically, they should operate independently, and they're legally required to act in the best interests of the patient, not the institution of the guardian, even though they're on the payroll of the institution. Not totally sure how that works. But my hope is that an ombudsman can visit your brother-in-law and escalate any concerns to state agencies, especially if this facility you mentioned is complicit in his isolation or neglect.

44:24No matter what, you know what I'm about to say. document, document, document, everything, dates, messages, conversations, witness statements, facility conditions, photos, videos, your brother-in-law's statements, inconsistencies in his wife's reports. If you ever get a chance to challenge the guardianship, you're going to want meticulous records because the judge has to go, what reason do I have to overturn a decision that I've already made? And if it's like, I swear none of this is true, he's going to be like, get out of here. But if you're like, here's a 13 page dossier where she told these people this and that wasn't true.

44:57And she told those people that and that wasn't true. And then she said this and that wasn't true. Here are the documents. He's going to go, ah, OK, I've been bamboozled and I don't like that. Judges do not like being bamboozled. I'll tell you that. Look, I'm going to give it to you straight, though. This is going to be hard. It's going to take some time. And it makes my blood boil that your brother in law might have to suffer in the meantime. He really is paying the highest price for all of this. It's just devastating. This poor guy and your poor family. I mean, he's watching Tobey Maguire movies, for God's sake.

45:24Somebody think of the man. Somebody think of the Netflix queue. You guys should definitely include that in the documentation. I think the judge should know that he's being forced to watch all of Tobey Maguire's oeuvre. Imagine a judge just throwing the file across the room at opposing counsel. I was on the fence about his skull being open for nine months. But when you mentioned Tobey Maguire's oeuvre, that's really what put this over the edge. Truly devastating. I'm going to rule in someone else's favor. And this is horrible. On the other hand, though, as sad as your brother-in-law's situation is, let's just remember, he does have a roof over his head.

45:56Perhaps not the greatest roof, but he has some level of care. A leaky roof. Yeah, he finally did have that necessary procedure, thank God, although it was very late. I mean, he deserves so much more. You know, he's not like wasting away in an attic somewhere. So while you do all of this, I would also try not to torture yourself unnecessarily. I mean, the only thing that you can do practically is channel all of this concern and anxiety and rage and love for your brother-in-law into pursuing these options. And you got to keep looking for ways to love your brother-in-law however you can. And I realize that your means are limited because it sounds like his reality is being shaped by his wife's narrative, basically.

46:32and every visit from you and your family, every conversation he has with you guys, every time, you know, your sister-in-law shaves him, every little ritual, every memory you bring up, those are going to be lifelines for him. For sure. That'll keep him connected to who he really is and who truly cares for him as well. So let's talk about you now. You are, I don't know how to put it, man. You're going through it. Yeah. And you have been for a while. It sounds like I am so very sorry to hear about the cancer scare and the business stress, you know, these feelings of being forgotten or not prioritized in your marriage.

47:05And you're going through all of that on top of your brother-in-law. I mean, this is pretty extraordinary. Yeah, man, it's a lot for one person to go through. This is overwhelming. And I'm just reading the letter. I'm really glad to hear that you sought out therapy. Of course, I hope you stuck with it. I'm glad you're finding a few different ways to take care of yourself. So look, a couple of things. First of all, it sounds like your wife is often torn between what her family wants and what you want. And I don't know where she is these days. You know, we don't know what she's going through herself, how she feels about the marriage, what she really wants.

47:36I mean, there's probably so much more information, but it sounds like it can be hard for her to say to her family something as simple as, listen, guys, I'm really sorry, but that night is Michael's birthday. Can we find another night to do the shower? Cause I want to be with him on his birthday. Or, you know, I'm sorry to leave you guys with the dishes, but I made a promise to be home by eight. I'm going to be home by eight. Or, you know, sorry, mom and dad, I know you're going through a tough time, but we need just a few days away together. So we're going to do this trip and I'll see you next week.

48:00Your wife has a big family and there is a theme in this letter of certain people in the family asserting their needs over other people's or perhaps your wife capitulating to other people's interests over her own, which is interesting. Or look, to be fair, maybe it's not malicious. It's just how it is in a big family. When you're an in-law like our friend here, you just get the short end of the stick a lot of the time. I don't know. Fair point. But I do get the sense that your wife is putting her family first in a variety of ways, and I feel for her because it's a stressful time. But something tells me she either isn't great at drawing some basic boundaries with them, or, I mean, I feel bad saying this, but is she avoiding something with you, maybe?

48:40I mean, the real issue, of course, is how you and your wife are talking about all of this. And it doesn't sound like you guys are talking all that much. I mean, how are you resolving these conflicts? How are you helping each other understand what you need? It made me really sad when you said that the weekend trip falling apart was maybe for the best and that your wife would have let you down anyway. Yeah, that one hit like, well, good thing we didn't do it. It just would have been she would have just blown it anyway. I mean, that's yikes. I mean, look, you might have good reason to believe that.

49:07Maybe you would have been disappointed if you had gone on this trip in some way. But then I guess I would want to know why you would have been let down. You know, what is it that you would have been hoping for? How would your wife have understood what you were hoping for? How would she have tried to live up to it or not lived up to it? And just like, where is the disconnect between the two of you right now? Because it just sounds like you guys are not really giving each other the opportunity to work through any of this in a meaningful way. But also, by saying something like what you said in that section, it's interesting because your wife let you down either way, whether you went on the trip or whether you didn't go on the trip.

49:38She let you down by canceling to take care of her mom, and in your mind, she probably would have let you down if you had gone. So again, maybe you have some good reasons to believe that, but I just think we have to be very careful with these assumptions that we make because they create a story. And the story seems to be, my wife will always disappoint me, and I will always be missed or always be forgotten somehow. And if that's the story that you buy into, then that's probably going to be the reality. So in a way, you are subtly creating a situation where the thing that hurts you the most is virtually guaranteed to happen.

50:14Good point. And the way to break out of that story would be what? I'm afraid if we go on this trip, I'm going to be let down somehow, and I don't want to feel that way. Can we talk about it? That's one way to do it. Another way might be to say, look, this weekend trip means a lot to me. I feel it's really important for the both of us. Can we please carve out two to three days and make time to prioritize each other? And can we maybe have a little do over of my 40th birthday? You know, can we really catch up? Like, let's prioritize each other. Let's make it happen. Right. Maybe also, I know it's hard to leave when your mom's hurting, but can we check in on her while we're away?

50:45Can we also trust her to take care of herself for a couple of days or maybe let one of your siblings help? Yeah. And also, I'm here to talk about all this. I know it's hard to watch your mom go through this whole thing, with your brother. You can see how these approaches make more room for the two of them, right? They open up possibilities. They don't shut them down. Whereas maybe it's for the best. My wife would have let me down anyway. That leaves very little room for them to try things in a new way and come to understand each other better. So it's just like a fait accompli. And then the story gets reinforced.

51:13That's right. Dot, dot, dot, five, 10 years go by and you hardly talk. And there's this buried resentment everywhere and loneliness. And who knows, maybe you separate or you just settle for being unhappy. That sucks. I get why this is so hard. When you're in a long-term relationship, these stories, they have a way of growing almost without you realizing. It's like mold behind the baseboards. And it takes a lot of sunlight to disinfect these corners of a relationship, for sure. It really does, man. It can be scary to go right at it and be like, hey, I'm not happy about this. This isn't working.

51:42I'm angry. I'm lonely. I'm sad. I don't feel like a priority. It's hard to be accused of being a heartless workaholic, whatever it is. I don't want to feel that way. I want to figure this out together. But if you don't do that, and by the way, they both have to want to do that for this to work. But if you don't try, this just gets worse. I also think there's some work for him to do to process the distress and the sadness of his brother-in-law's situation on his end and also his hurt about the marriage and find a way to not let that impact his business quite as much because that's part of being a good leader too.

52:11You know, I really relate to that particular stress of his being responsible for other people's livelihoods and their families, it is a huge responsibility. It's something that most people don't fully understand. And I managed a team of what, like eight people? This guy's managing a hundred people. That is a ton of responsibility. There's a lot of weight on your shoulders. And it's one that's probably heightened by being a man, I think. Yeah. The whole provider thing for sure. The provider thing, but also it can be a lot harder for us guys to say, you know, I don't feel like a priority. I feel invisible being alone on my birthday after you said that you would be home.

52:43That really sucked. It's, it's vulnerable to say that. That really hits. I really feel for him here being left alone for a major event or a big milestone, like turning 40. I mean, look, in a way it's just a birthday, but in another way, it's a big deal. Especially if your spouse said, I will be there for dinner. I will tell you when I got married, I know you flew in the same day. So I'm not talking about you. Cause you kind of came like you squeezed me in. But, um, on my wedding, I woke up and I was a bunch of us went to breakfast. And then I was like, great. All right. There's like six hours to the wedding.

53:13Like, what are we going to do? Hang out. And like, my dad's like, I'm going back to the hotel. I got to get ready. And other people were like, I need to go rent a suit because one of my best friends, Tim, he came at the last minute and took some other guy's spot because he wasn't supposed to come in the other, you know, blah, blah, blah. And then other people who were there were like, I got to go do this. I got to go do that. So I sat at home and I literally checked my email and social media on my wedding day because I had nothing to do and no one was around. Really? Wow. Yeah, it was it was kind of a freak thing because, of course, my family was all in town, but they were busy.

53:43And other people were like, yeah, my flight gets in in three hours or my flight gets in in an hour. And then we go and like get dressed fast and come. So it wasn't like we had planned this whole morning. I just kind of assumed that after the breakfast, somebody would be around and nobody was around. And I just remember being like, wow, this reminds me of all my birthdays growing up because both my parents worked. And my birthday was usually not on a weekend. So I usually was like in school and then alone on my birthday and it really hit. This is such a sad story. I'm so sorry. I will say now as an adult, I don't like Christmas.

54:15I don't like my birthday and I don't like other events that other people love because it just makes me feel lonely as crap. Even if there are people around, I just want the day to be over. It's sad because it's Christmas or it's sad because it's my birthday, but I'm like, I hope no one remembers. I still have that feeling. I'm so sorry that that happened to you, bud. But it's funny to think about that because when I went to your wedding, we were friends for, what, a few years at that point? And we weren't that close. We hadn't hung out that much. It was kind of early days for us. It was early days.

54:41I mean, we were friends for like seven years. I don't remember this at all. I must not have been there yet. It must have been because I flew in in the afternoon. But just know if we had a do-over on your wedding, I would take you out for eggs or whatever. Here's the thing, though. It didn't have to be that way. I should have made actual plans. and that's what I think this guy might also be doing is there's a lot of assumptions here that are doing a disservice. What I should have done is gone, okay, there's a breakfast. What am I doing after that? Who can I hang out with? Where should I go? Should I go to the hotel and just kick it by the pool and then get ready?

55:16You know, instead of just sitting around. I was like in my suit for seven hours. I was just sucked. You know, I was just like in my wedding suit for seven hours, sitting there, like getting creases in my shit. So this guy's also making another set of assumptions, right? Like, oh, she should know this or she should know how upset I am. And it's like, no, you got to do something about that, man. Right. How do you communicate to the people in your life what you need so that they can be there in the way that you need? That's kind of a skill. Right. Like I'm all, wham, feeling sorry for myself. And it's like, no, I played a part in this too.

55:42You know, I did. But I also know that articulating that out loud to other people as a man. Yeah, it's embarrassing. Like I'm doing it to hundreds of thousands of people right now. So that's a, that's something. But I would have felt weird saying anything if everybody was busy. I didn't want to text everyone and be like, I'm lonely and bored guys. Like that's, I don't know. It's just something you just don't do as a guy. So the loneliness that our friend here feels is probably caused by a number of things, right? To your point, his personality, his way of going about resolving this stuff, his history, what he's dealing with in this moment in his life, his gender, perhaps.

56:13But also, let's remember, he doesn't have his beloved brother-in-law anymore, the brother he never had. And that is really hard. It's deeply sad. And that is probably making everything harder. So you have a few next steps. Fight for your brother-in-law, collaborate with your wife and her family to come up with a plan, present a united front, coordinate all your efforts, and if there are people in the family who disagree with you guys, like the one brother who gets to visit, tough Kishka. You can't fight for what's right without creating some waves. Plus, you might need that guy. If he's allowed to visit, he's like your inside man.

56:42And I would make an effort to talk to your wife. Take some chances, articulate how you feel, invite her to fill you in on what she is struggling with. I think you're both going through some very intense stuff, and if you need help, definitely consider couples counseling. It can be a game changer. And of course, keep taking care of yourself, man. Talk to your therapist. Talk to a couple friends. Get good sleep, exercise. Do a couple kandrasanas every morning or whatever. I have an image of you as a highly driven, responsible, self-sufficient guy who carries the world on his shoulders. There are virtues in there and there are flaws.

57:15And it's time to make some changes before you really do a number on your body and your mind and on your relationships because there's a lot you can't control in this situation. but these are things you do control and that's how you can show up for everyone else as well as possible. I'm so sorry you're going through all this. Sending you a big hug, man. Take care. You know what's worse than a Tobey Maguire movie? Now, I mean, not much, but not taking advantage of the deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for listening to and supporting the sponsors who make the show possible.

57:46All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the podcast. They're searchable, They're clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Consider supporting those who support the show. All right, now for the recommendation of the week. I am addicted to Lit Filla. My recommendation of the week is a super fun active game experience. It's called Activate Games. Jen and I have played this in London. We played it in San Francisco. A show fan, Mitchell Smith, wrote in and gifted us a certificate to play, which is very nice. Thank you so much. It's for adolescents and adults. It's not just like adult stuff.

58:19In fact, it's mostly kids when we go there, but whatever. And it is super fun. There's light-up floor tiles, and you have to avoid getting hit by the red ones while you stomp on the blue ones, and the green ones are safe. And then there's also trivia where, instead of just answering the questions, you have to shoot the basketball through the right-colored hoop to hit the answer, so there's a dual challenge there. There's laser mazes where you have to crawl through active laser kind of things shooting at you to make sure. It's like something out of a 007 movie. There's all these different versions of each game.

58:48It's really fun. You get a little bit of a workout if you want to. And Jen and I are just hooked on this. We'll go and play for an hour and just be like dripping sweat and then go out to lunch. You should really check it out if it's in your area. Activate games. And it's great for a big group. If you're kind of like, I've got a group of 10 people and we got to do something and then we're going to go to dinner. Activate games is something you should check out alongside. It's sort of in the vein of escape rooms, but it's less cerebral and more athletic. Okay, what's next? Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm 22, just graduated college, and have around$50 ,000 in a brokerage account and$30 ,000 in a Roth IRA.

59:23A year ago, I had$150 ,000 in my brokerage account, but I spent about$100 ,000 on travel, experiences, and personal growth. Peru, Aspen, Costa Rica, Italy, Hawaii, learning how to surf, exploring LA, where I'm moving in less than a month, working on my style, and pushing myself socially after years of social anxiety. I believe these experiences made me a better person in ways I never got from school and work. I used to be socially anxious and rigid. Now I'm more grounded, I have real confidence, and I find it much easier to connect with all different types of people. The trips have given me new perspectives.

1:00:03Gratitude, aspiration, empathy, humility, personality, presence, emotional depth, sense of self. I've also been able to refine and experiment with myself. Wow. Okay. It sounds like quite a journey you've been on. This is a huge transformation, man. Well done. Amazing what travel and a lot of hard work can actually do, eh? That said, a lot of this growth probably could have happened without the spending or the time away from working. Interesting. You know, I wonder if that's true. Maybe it is. Hey, totally fair. But there is something very powerful about leaving your home country, challenging yourself like this out in the world.

1:00:38You definitely don't need to spend 100K to have those experiences all the time. But I wonder if the same thing would have happened, I don't know, sitting behind a desk for a year in your hometown. I don't think so. Now that I'm entering a full-time job and thinking about starting my own real estate development and construction company one day, I'm feeling the urge to go back to full-time grind mode, which is what put me in the financial situation that I had earlier. Wow. Okay. So that means you actually made most, if not all of that money you had. That is hugely impressive, man. I was kind of thinking like maybe somebody died and gave him a bunch of money and he spent it on growth.

1:01:09Good investment. Look, it's amazing what dollar cost averaging can do when you're investing, huh? I can't tell if I made a short-sighted mistake by spending that much or if I gave myself something more valuable. One side of me feels like the money has just been converted. The other side feels regret and disgust for letting go of a nest egg that at this age would have unlocked so many opportunities in the future? Did I blow it? Or did I invest in something else that will compound just like my stock portfolio? Did I give myself a huge gift? Or was I just a young spendthrift? Hey, great question.

1:01:44So as you can probably tell, I am a huge fan of having experiences like this, especially at such a young age. I would not at all be the person I am today if I hadn't traveled a ton when I was younger. And there are so many awesome ways to grow as a human being. Travel is just one of them. And like I said, you definitely don't need to drop a hundred grand in order to develop as a person. In fact, in my experience, traveling on the cheap is often the most formative and rewarding. But hey, look, this trip you did, especially at 22 years old, the impact it had on your personality, your mindset, your identity, it really does sound profound.

1:02:17My man, all of these qualities you mentioned, you really cannot put a price on them. The person you become in your 20s and your 30s, that largely determines the trajectory of your life. That's when you really, you get to sculpt yourself. You create this foundation. And plus, all of the science shows that true satisfaction, true happiness, long-term, it comes from experiences and not things. So did you blow it? I mean, it sure doesn't sound like it to me. It sounds like you've got a pretty good ROI, return on investment from all of this, and you got the ROI early on when it came at a lower opportunity cost, and you have longer to enjoy the benefits.

1:02:54Like, yeah, you could have saved up and done this in your 50s, and it wouldn't have been a large amount of money, and blah, blah, blah, would have grown at interest. When you're 20, you have no real responsibility. Trust me. I thought I had responsibility in my 20s, and then I have kids now. It's not even close. It's nothing even close. And I have a company. I got to pay people. I can't just be like, you know what? I'm taking a year-long sabbatical, bro. I got to go to Indonesia. That is just unrealistic. realistic if you put all these assets to work if you show up to your career with this ambition and the empathy and the humility if you invest in people with your newfound depth and presence it's it is going to pay massive dividends and not just financially although that's of course a big part of it you're also going to have more meaningful relationships you're going to have a much more interesting lens on the world you're going to have more spiritual depth they're all connected of course so yes i do think you invested in something that will compound over time you didn't just piss this money away.

1:03:45But how much this investment pays off, it's going to depend on how consciously you apply these qualities and how consistently, which really comes down to your habits and your systems and how you continue to cultivate yourself once you settle back into your life in the States or wherever you are, you go back into full-time grind mode. If you start working and you lose your connection to all this stuff, which is kind of easy to do. I remember when I was working in corporate, it was like, I only saw my office. I only thought about work. If you forget to take a genuine interest in people, if you stop challenging yourself, if you stop being playful, if you start obsessing exclusively about your friggin Schwab account and you lose the wonderful humility and depth, that's when the travels will stop paying off.

1:04:24So I would shift your thinking here a little bit. Instead of asking, oh my God, did I just blow 100K on traveling? I would ask, I spent 100K on traveling. That is a significant investment. How do I make the most of it as I enter this new chapter of my life? How can I honor the investment that I made in myself? Because the money is already spent, man. How you internalize what you learned and apply it, that is what you actually have control over. Yes, that is so well said. And hearing his story, I have to say, is very inspiring as I begin these travels, even though I'm in a very different life phase from his.

1:04:55But my only caveat to all of this is if part of the reason that you're asking this question is that you feel you could have been more disciplined with your money, maybe you know what was worth spending money on and what wasn't worth spending money on and you have a couple regrets. That is something to keep an eye on. I don't think we're encouraging you to be reckless, especially if you want to be an entrepreneur, you want to build real wealth. You said that you feel regret, but you also said you feel disgust, which is a very strong word. I just wonder what exactly makes you feel disgusted about the investment you made in yourself, given how profound it was.

1:05:27Was it just the sheer amount of money, which I can understand? You clearly value it and it's not a small amount of money. Also, maybe you were a little spendthrifty or maybe you had some meaning attached to this money, maybe because you worked hard for it, which is beautiful, or you managed to accumulate it at such a young age, which is a big deal. And maybe not having that money anymore, even though you got a lot out of it, maybe that feels like, I don't know, maybe there's a hit to your identity or chips away at the accomplishment somehow. Just a few things to consider because I do get the sense that how you feel about this money now is about more than just the number in your bank account.

1:06:01But then we're back to the same idea. It's all about what you do with that awareness, kicking yourself for a mistake, not going to get you very far, not making that mistake in the future, making different choices, valuing your money better. That's going to get you somewhere. I mean, dude, I wish I could tell publicly all the dumb investments and mistakes I've made with money, but we don't have that kind of time. But when I look at it, I go, okay, I probably learned a million over time. I've learned a million dollar lesson from losing X number of dollars, or I've learned a multimillion dollar lesson or a priceless lesson from losing a million dollars.

1:06:32I mean, that is very possible. I've talked about dissolution of my previous business. I've talked about bad investments in the stock. I mean, it's kind of cliche at this point, but I don't really regret most of those things. Like, would I do them again? Hell no. But like when you take that lens in a funny way, that can also make the mistakes money well spent. Absolutely. So you can read Ramit Sethi books all you want, where he's like, invest in index funds, don't pick stocks. And you're like, but I'm going to pick this stock. And then you're like, oh my God, now I'm not picking stocks anymore.

1:06:57Let me tell you, there's a sting that's not going to go away for a while. So I'm going to do things right from here on out. And it's like, oh, thank God I could afford to learn that lesson. But look, man, you're in a great position. You're 22. You are just starting out in your career. Spending 100K at 22 in order to mature and evolve when you have decades to build your wealth, that is very different from spending 100K at, say, 55, depending on the person, of course. Gabriel, I don't know about you. I probably had$175 ,000 in student loan debt or something like that after college. Wow. Did I learn more from traveling, which cost me way less than that?

1:07:29Yes. Yes. Look, I had a law degree after that, too. That was helpful. But like, am I really using that? You know, if I had to do it all over again, knowing I would be where I am now, which is impossible, of course, would I spend that money going to college and law school or would I just travel and live abroad? I mean, I think we all kind of know the answer to that. Interesting. But man, given your ambition, your lust for life, your track record, it sounds like there's a high likelihood that you're going to build this wealth back and you're going to do just fine. All you got to do is stay connected to what you learned and keep growing.

1:07:59And you might want to keep traveling here and there just to stay in touch with this mindset. Keep expanding. I'm excited for you, man. Keep up the great work. I wish you an amazing life. Let's meet up sometime in a place where neither of us can read the menus. EDC, apparently. Yes, exactly. Look, the reason I can't read the menus at EDC is decidedly different from the reason I can't read the menus in Portugal. I'm just going to leave it at that. By the way, if you haven't signed up yet, come check out our newsletter, We Bit Wiser. It's a bite-sized gem from a past episode, from us to you, delivered to your inbox most Wednesdays.

1:08:30I know some people are like, I'm not getting it anymore. Gabe is just, you know, we write these things together and he is a lazy bastard. So we've skipped a couple of weeks. He's sitting there avoiding scorpion bites on his junk in the jungle. It's just so hard to type those newsletters when you're pulling 37 trunks of tuxedos to the jungle, you know. That's right. You're yelling at your manservants. Much faster, gentlemen. We're almost there. So we're going to be back on it soon. But if you want to keep up with the wisdom from our thousand plus episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out.

1:09:02You can sign up at jordanharbinger.com slash news. You can reach us at Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job a whole lot easier. If you're being blocked from your dream career for seeking mental health treatment, your beloved ex is painting you as the villain after a chaotic breakup. or you're debating whether to withhold an inheritance from your sibling because they're stuck in an abusive relationship, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday at jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.

1:09:31Go back and check out Jefferson Fisher if you haven't done so yet. Great conversation there. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust. I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in our six-minute networking course. It's 100 % free. It is not gross. It is not schmoozy. You can find it on the Thinkific platform at 6minutenetworking.com. These drills take just a few minutes a day. I really wish I knew this stuff 20 years ago. You got to dig that well before you get thirsty, folks. Build relationships before you need them.

1:09:58You can find it all at 6minutenetworking.com. Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, discounts, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, Tata Sidlowskis, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. I am a lawyer, but I'm not a good lawyer. I'm not your lawyer.

1:10:28So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. What happens when the only way to survive is to lie so well you forget who you really are? FBI veteran Scott Payne went undercover with one of the most dangerous biker gangs in the country and almost didn't make it out.

1:10:57This is the way I was trained and this is what I think. Anytime you are something that you're not, pretend to be something that's opposite of you for a long period of time, especially in deep cover, generally one or two things are going to happen. You're either going to slip up and they're going to catch you or you're going to become it. because there's so many horror stories and undercovers. It sucks that the same mistakes are being made today that were being made in the eights. You got a small department, you got somebody just running the undercover, but that person is also the case agent who is going to get promoted if the case succeeds.

1:11:32I'm not saying people are going to do the wrong thing. It's just a bad foundation. I guess people is kind of my business. Even as an investigator, at the end of the day, you need to be able to sit down with somebody and have a conversation with them and gather intelligence, get information. Because if all else fails and computers shut down and phones, that's great, it's all good stuff, but it's all human intelligence and you just need to be able to talk to people. You gotta be believable. And this is where a lot of people think about undercover. And when I'm out training and speaking, I mean, I'll ask, what do you think undercover is?

1:12:04Some people say acting. I go, okay, what else do you think it is? Lying, or is it pretending to be something you're not? The true definition of undercover work is you're forming relationships that you're most likely going to betray. That sucks if you look at it that way, but you need to be able to figure out a way you're going to do it and rationalize it in your mind so it doesn't have an adverse impact on you. Go inside basement strip searches, a brotherhood built on betrayal, and the psychological damage that still lingers on episode 1120 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.