1185: Coffee | Skeptical Sunday

23:56So the antioxidants in coffee, they do have the potential to help your liver fight off the fatty buildup by breaking down glucose. And there's other chemicals in coffee like cafestol and kawal that may have cancer fighting properties, but the research is really mixed. The acid is shown to have the potential to fight hepatitis. That's actually incredible because that's a really gnarly disease. And I think it's uncurable. Some versions of it are anyway. Potential is the word we have to lean in on there. Sure, sure. I mean, it sounds like it can be really incredible, but there are more efficient ways to help out our livers without drinking pots and pots of coffee.

24:38So moderation is key. And some individuals may experience adverse effects from coffee, like increased cholesterol. Dave Grohl was famously rushed to the hospital several years ago because he was so addicted to coffee. He suffered these like unwanted effects of too much caffeine. Dave Grohl of the Foo Fighters? Yeah. Fresh pots!

25:09Fresh pots! Yes, yeah. Jesus, was he mainlining the fresh pots? How much coffee do you need to go to the ER? I know, I mean, how many gallons was he drinking? The FDA estimates that 10 to 14 ,000 milligrams can be a lethal dosage. And that's a lot. So as long as you don't slam like 30 cups of coffee in a short amount of time, you'll be good. But I think that's what he was doing. Yeah, maybe. I mean, my buddy who had 16 shots of espresso is at least halfway there. Yeah, he had to be close. I have to say it's the lamest rock star affliction, but it's a pretty good argument to watch how many cups you drink throughout the day.

25:48Then again, I mean, he's not going to die of a heroin overdose drinking coffee. So you got that going for you. Yeah. I mean, he's just addicted to caffeine and coffee is caffeine delivery full stop and high doses, which would be 12 cups or more, will interrupt normal sleep patterns. So when you drink in excess, it's raising your blood pressure and it can lead to heart palpitations. So, I mean, I've definitely felt the sweats from a strong cup. Coffee is the kind of addiction that's disguised as routine. It's like an addiction nobody wants to name. Do people withdraw? I guess they must if you stop drinking coffee, yeah?

26:24Oh, yeah. I mean, have you ever been out of coffee in the morning? Yeah. What happens? That's true. I have, back in my sort of super monster energy drink coffee every morning days, I used to get a headache if I waited too long to start drinking that stuff in the morning. It doesn't happen anymore, though. I'm just way down on all that. Yeah, it just sounds like you really are in moderation of how much you drink. But I mean, it doesn't happen to everyone. And when it does happen, it is withdrawal. So your head pounds, you feel fatigue, you might be depressed. I mean, that's not enjoyment. That's dependency with good branding.

27:01So if it were any other substance, we'd stage an intervention, right? But because it's an acute mug, we call it self-care. It's kind of ugly. Yeah. More studies claim coffee isn't healthy. It's just a common, socially acceptable addiction. And no one really wants to say it because everyone's in on the fix, you know? That's true. Yeah, it's socially acceptable. It's kind of like alcohol is totally fine until you start committing crimes or beating people up or something, right? Coffee doesn't do that. So you think like, oh, what's the arm? It's socially accepted because we all needed to tolerate each other's company.

27:34It's the opiate of the middle class, I suppose. Or it's the speedball of the middle class. Yeah. Okay. So the ritual, the taste, the$7 latte with a flower drawn in the foam are all part of the fact that most people just need it to function. So besides messing with my sleep and digestion, I suppose. So, okay, hypothetical. What if we all just stopped? What if we all quit coffee, cold turkey, collective global detox? I mean, we'd crash and we'd crash hard. I think there'd be weeping in the streets, office mutinies, full-blown adult tantrums. Sounds like L.A. on a Tuesday. Right, right. But then, I mean, maybe we'd rest.

28:13Maybe we'd look around and realize we don't hate mornings. That would take a lot of convincing in some people. What's the good in quitting? Well, improved sleep is the most noticeable. So anxiety and blood pressure will lower when we detox from coffee and caffeine. And because caffeine interferes with the absorption of certain nutrients like calcium and iron, quitting coffee improves those levels. So for a lot of people, it also alleviates heartburn and acid reflux. And an overlooked benefit, your teeth get whiter. Wow. Well, of course, I guess that makes sense. Are there drawbacks then to quitting coffee?

28:50Yeah, and they happen real quick. So when you quit caffeine, you can experience headaches, fatigues, irritability, like we talked about. I mean, a lot of people rely on caffeine to boost their energy. So quitting, it makes you feel really fatigued at first. I mean, I brew a pot of coffee in the morning and I finish it throughout the day. So that's about 12 cups. I might not put as many grounds as some people in. But regardless, I did this research. I'm like, I'm going to see what happens. It was about day four or five. All of a sudden, I was having a lot of green tea. So I'm just getting my caffeine from somewhere else.

29:28And then after a week, I like ran to the grocery store to buy a bag of grounds because I had I was like an addict. I had to have that taste. I had to have that coffee. So you can experience mood swings. You can deny yourself the little pleasure of your morning ritual. You're losing an aspect of your routine. And that's really hard to replace is what I found. So it's kind of similar to quitting any drug, except everybody thinks it seems crazy to quit this one. You know, there's like cultural resistance. And one motivator to help at least cut back is you'd be helping the environment. Yeah. Based on the amount of coffee we drink, are the environmental effects just out of control?

30:09Yeah. Coffee, it's pretty harsh on the environment. Of course it is. So how do the beans make it to my grinder, dare I ask? Yeah. The life of a coffee bean, it starts in tropical soil. It takes about three to four years for a coffee bean to grow into the trees that produce these small cherry-like fruits. Whoa, so coffee is a fruit, like a fruit salad fruit? Yeah, I mean, I don't recommend throwing it in a fruit salad, but it comes from a fruit called the coffee cherry. And within those red cherries are seeds we call beans. And that's what we use to brew coffee. So farmers pick the ripe fruit. They dry the beans inside.

30:47Once they're dried, they get skinned, sorted, shipped around the world as unroasted coffee beans, also known as green coffee because they're literally green. Then they're roasted, ground, and brewed into the$8 drink you sip. So do we drink green coffee? I don't think I've ever seen that. All my beans are roasted and brown. I mean, you can, but the brew tastes like lawn clippings that were soaked in hot water. So it's really bitter and really grassy. It's everything I've read. It sounds pretty unpleasant. Yeah. Yum. Artisanal flavors of mowed grasses. And somehow we've industrialized the hell out of it.

31:25I mean, coffee is pretty affordable for something that passes through a ton of hands and ships across the world so everybody can feel more awake at 7 a.m. I mean, that's pretty incredible that it's only whatever amount you pay. I know we complain about the price, but it's yeah, it's wild what it goes through. And the whole process, though, it's really brutal on the environment. It's basically the Exxon Mobil of beverages. So to meet the global demand, a lot of coffee farmers, they clear cut forests so that the coffee plants grow and plenty of sun. Because the more sun, the faster growth, the more beans.

31:58But that also means fewer trees, less biodiversity, and confused migratory birds. So there's a very clear link between coffee and deforestation? Definitely. In fact, the World Wildlife Fund found that of the 50 countries in the world with the highest deforestation rates, 37 of them are coffee producing. Oh, yikes. Yeah, yeah. Coffee farmers, they also focus more and more on monoculture. We've talked about monoculture before. I think when we discussed in the banana episode. Oh, right, right. That's growing like one thing. Is that what that is? Yeah, exactly. It's the practice of growing only one type of a plant and it cranks out the volume.

32:39But monoculture, it decreases biodiversity. It interferes with animals' migratory patterns. And it increases the chance of disease and infestation. So one plant gets a disease, they all get it. Right, right, right. Because if the, I forget, like these bull weevily looking things are like some sort of rot. If it only attacks one kind of thing, but that's all you're growing for miles and miles and miles, everything can get it. Right, okay. So because we start our days with a cafe au lait, birds can't find their way south in the winter and plants have a higher chance of dying. I don't, the bird thing is interesting.

33:13Yeah, well, when you'd cut down trees, that's a big problem of defyrestation. And they don't have I don't know exactly the biology of it, but yeah, it messes with their patterns. I would imagine if they can't rest in large numbers anymore in that area, they just have to go somewhere else. But what if there's nowhere else to go? Because you have a giant barrier of coffee plantations in the in the area. Man, talk about a butterfly effect. Coffee is making me bitter and I'm not even drinking it right now. I know. Well, then you're definitely not going to like hearing about what it does to water. like one cup in the morning takes 140 liters of water to produce get out of here that's one cup yeah that's over 36 gallons of water for your one mug yeah that is freaking ridiculous i would not have guessed that should i feel worse about a pot of coffee or a long shower i think 36 gallons of water the coffee 36 gallons of water that's like a 20 minute long shower and that's a ridiculous amount of time to spend in the shower that's so it's basically two showers worth of water to drink Like a cup of coffee.

34:13I think that's about right. Wow. And it's just not the amount of water required to grow the plants. It's what happens to the water along the way, too. So a part of the coffee process is called wet milling, which it's pretty much steeping the fruits in water, which often is cut with sulfur. And that softens them, so it makes it easier to get the beans out. That wastewater ends up in rivers and streams, contaminating the water. It kills fish. It kills plants. And once the coffee reaches us, there's even more problems. What more? How much worse can it get? Well, think about it. You know, every year, billions and billions of coffee cups are thrown away just by Americans.

34:55Right. That makes sense. Yeah. Most of those cups you get in Starbucks, you know, they can't be recycled because of that sneaky plastic lining that keeps it insulated so it doesn't burn our hands. Sure. So they end up in landfills, oceans, international waterways. These compostable and reusable coffee cups, they can help. But disposable cups and those single-use coffee pods for the Keurig and things, they are widely used. So it's just a major issue. Yeah, the pods always, they seem wasteful, right? They're made out of aluminum and they're covered with foil and you use it to make one cup of coffee.

35:27I know, they're horrible. And you can buy reusable pods, but they're gross and a mess. And it's just easier to pop one in. I mean, I get it. You're not thinking of, holy shit, if everybody's doing this, what waste it is. Sure. Environmental catastrophe, though, that's just some of the fun. Like, wait till we talk about the labor. Yeah, I was going to ask about this. I know where this probably ends. Slave coffee, right? Oh, you nailed it. Coffee production exploits workers. There's child labor issues. And in some cases, literal slavery. Have you ever heard of coffee enemas? Well, here's something else you can put up your butt.

36:04We'll be right back. Thank you so much for listening to and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps the lights on around here. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the podcast are searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. So I was prepared to hear that coffee farm workers have it pretty rough, but so your actual slavery, but not exaggerated, not like, oh, really low wages, but like human trafficking level slavery. Yeah. I mean, people are just trapped on some of these farms and a lot of adults do work for some money, but it's like one to 10 percent of the final retail price.

36:43They work insanely long hours, usually in the hot sun. They're exposed to extreme weather and pesticides. It's awful. Yeah. But even when the economics get bad, farm workers, they still got to meet their quotas. I read something where I can't remember where this was, but these workers were essentially lured slash trafficked in to, I don't even want to say where, because it was like Hawaii or was it Thailand or was it Colombia? I can't remember. But they basically got there and found out that they weren't going to be able to leave because the passports were confiscated. Yeah, for sure. I mean, that definitely happens as well as it doesn't matter about economics.

37:21People need their coffee in the morning. And so to meet those quotas, they often bring their kids along to the coffee farm to work. Oh, yeah. It seems like a lot of this labor intensive farming that takes place in developing countries does include child labor. I've heard that before. I remember that from the chocolate episode, the bananas episodes, episodes I've done about human trafficking. Kids are making like bricks and stuff like that. It's yeah. It's sad, but it's true. You know, these kids, they're not officially employees and they're not getting paid. They just need the extra hands and they work the same brutal long days alongside their family.

37:55You know, heavy manual labor, the toxic chemicals, the industrial machines, the crazy heat kids shouldn't be around. Yeah. And I guess it's not like they're there because they love coffee farming or they chose the job. Definitely not. It's survival for them and their families. They don't have options or bargaining power. I mean, imagine your kid trying to negotiate health insurance or a lunch break, you know, like, hey, sorry, boss, if you don't pay me more, I'm off to the plantation across the street. It has free snacks. Right. Yeah. It doesn't happen. Plantation down the road has a micro kitchen.

38:27Yeah, that's not going to happen. It's wild that this is part of a product that most of us drink every single day. But this only happens with coffee from hopefully with coffee from shady Java salesmen in the Congo or something. Right. Or is this everywhere? Yeah, no, sadly. In fact, earlier this year, Starbucks and Nespresso were both caught up in child labor controversies after an investigation found that children under 13 were working on farms in Guatemala that supplied both of those coffee companies with their beans. Starbucks, the place that sells Sarah McLachlan CDs by the register. Yeah.

39:10And don't even get me started on Nespresso. You know how many hours I've spent in those stores sipping because I drink it at the store, sipping delicious somewhat, but barely banana flavored coffee with hints of cocoa and hazelnut out of those teeny tiny little cups. Come on. Yeah. And it's not just the children who are exploited for that pretentious moment you can have. Yes. So what you were describing earlier with people getting stuck on these farms, it's called bonded labor and it's rampant in the coffee biz. So bonded labor is where someone pledges their services as a security for the repayment of a debt.

39:48And the terms of repayment are often unclear. And the person holding the debt has all this control over the laborer in question, which is probably what you were thinking of. Yes, that's right. Right. OK, so this is like if you agreed to pay off your student loans by working 12 hours a day in a factory owned by Wells Fargo, you can start to begin to imagine what being a bonded laborer feels like. You show up and you go, OK, I got sixty four thousand dollars in student loans. And they're like, well, sixty four thousand dollars plus interest. And you're like, cool, let me see the spreadsheet with that on it.

40:17They're like, nah, we'll tell you when you've paid it off. Go work. Yeah, Sally Mae's like, no, I have these tasks for you to do first. For the next 20 years. Yeah. I mean, tragically, bonded labor is just a huge part of the global coffee industry. Back in 2011, for example, the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, they filed a lawsuit against eight different farms in Hawaii and Washington state for forcing hundreds of Thai men to work in their fields between 2003 and 2007. I think this is the thing I was thinking of. Yeah, it was Thai men who were trafficked to Hawaii of all places to America.

40:56Yes. Like what? Yeah, that was shocking for me. And they legally entered the U.S. and they paid recruitment fees. So they were promised decent salaries. But then when they arrived, their employers confiscated the passports. They forced them to live in cramped facilities. They would threaten them with deportation. I mean, the case was awful. They physically assaulted some of them, starved them as they worked off their debt. Oh, my God. It happened in America. That is deeply disturbing. Especially, I've been to a coffee farm now that I think about it in Hawaii. And now I'm like, was it one of the ones with human trafficking?

41:31Same, and I thought it was so beautiful. Now I feel that. Yeah, it was. And you're like, oh, look at this international crew of people just out here in paradise. And they're just like, take, you know, slipping you a note with your latte that says, help me. Oh, God. I mean, this is all, why are you laughing? You're a terrible person, Jessica. This is all deeply disturbing. Here I was drinking a little Joe to get the old engine started in the morning. And apparently I'm contributing to the demise of the planet and the basic human rights of my fellow man. Cool. Yeah, real cool. Real cool. I mean, once coffee companies realized how effed up the coffee production actually is, some of them started paying certification organizations to create standards and oversee compliance within the supply chains.

42:13OK, so those labels tell us more about the workers' quality of life than the quality of the product. We've looked at this in several. I think there was a we might have even done a whole episode about fair trade, but we've looked at this in several episodes. Fair trade does not mean ethical and everybody's happy and peachy. Right. But it does mean that some organizations and businesses are trying, at least. So the most yeah, the most prominent one that people are probably familiar with is Fair Trade USA. There's Fair Trade International. There's Rainforest Alliance. there's us certified starbucks actually has its own certification called cafe cafe which it does the same thing as others but makes starbucks feel even more special i guess right yeah and also it's like well we've certified ourselves and we feel good about that for those who don't know when you buy fair trade coffee or a similar certified brand it's showing you they're doing the work to pay farmers a minimum price and give them basic labor rights without contributing to child labor.

43:12And that's can be. Yeah, hopefully. And that can be sort of flexible, I suppose. But it's better than nothing. And I do go for that stuff because I really don't want my coffee brewed in ecological ruin and human suffering because it's gross to think about. And basically, the label's like shorthand for not being a total dick to the people who grow your coffee. Pretty much. And and sellers that want to grow their coffee even more sustainably, they can partner with a certifier like the Rainforest Alliance. What they do is a little extra. They ensure that the seller is conserving biodiversity, avoiding the deforestation practices, and actually reforesting nonproductive farms.

43:52So Kenco and Costa, they're two brands that signed on to this program, but they're not readily available in the States. I see. I did cry at the end of Avatar. So these brands sound like my cup of tea. That is indeed somewhat comforting. Yeah. I mean, not that comforting, though. I mean, the problem is that fair trade, it doesn't address the environmental impacts of coffee. And so the additional cost to farmers for complying with these standards by avoiding the child labor, providing pesticide safety suits, doing extra paperwork, pretty much, it can really offset the higher selling prices they get.

44:31Gotta love the paradoxes of capitalism, I suppose. The system does not work perfectly. And unlike with organic food, there's no government agency to oversee ethical certification of specifically coffee. So there are brands like Just Us, Peace Coffee, which is actually in a lot of stores. And a couple more that these are more conscientious brands trying to enforce policies that allow workers and farmers to form co-ops. that advocate for their rights and concerns. What about streamlining the supply chain or something? I mean, it's hard, right? I mean, you can buy direct trade coffee, which is coffee roasters directly purchasing from farmers.

45:16And so they earn a higher premium for their product. But it's a lot of work for the consumer. You have to start asking your favorite coffee shop where they source their beans if you want to start buying ethically. It's not like Starbucks is going to slap a label on your frappuccino saying, Enjoy this tasty beverage. A farmer with heat stroke and his hardworking, malnourished 10-year-old son made it all possible. I mean, the human costs of the supply chain are very remote and very well hidden, obviously by design. Yeah, it's heartbreaking. And when you're just in a rush to grab a cup of coffee, you're not really thinking of all of these horrible conditions.

45:50Of course. There is something well hidden that you might like about coffee. So throughout Africa and Asia, there's this small nocturnal cat and it's called the civet cat. And these cats are naturally drawn to the best, ripest fruits on the coffee plant and they eat the fruit whole. They also expel the beans whole. So the logic is if they're eating the best beans, then... No. Oh my gosh. Tell me people are not drinking cat poop coffee. Oh, Jordan. Cat poop coffee beans, they're like$20 an ounce or around$300 a pound. And there's even a brewery that uses the beans to make a really expensive coffee porter.

46:34Wow. Imagine your job is to follow this cat around all night and pick up its poop and then get the beans out. Yeah, talk about working conditions. Wow. I am out. Are there alternatives to coffee? I mean, there's decaf coffee, right? And it seems to have the same potential protective effects on your liver. And decaf coffee is a better option for those sensitive to caffeine. Yeah, but decaf is for quitters. And I think drinking that would make me feel even worse because you're still getting all the exploitative farming and labor and stuff. And then it's just all in vain because you do all that. You don't even get a caffeine buzz.

47:11So it's like, what's the point? aren't there any sort of real alternatives i'm always seeing ads for coffee like drinks that aren't actually coffee we've even advertised some on the show there's various forms of other things that get ground up and made into coffee-ish things yeah sure there's a there's a popular thing it's called poor man's coffee which is just chicory that's just like that woody plant with the blue and white flowers okay that's been used as a coffee substitute in europe since 1766 when Frederick the Great of Prussia, he restricted coffee imports. So Prussians just started brewing up chicory instead.

47:46Is chicory any good? I mean, probably not because nobody's heard of this, or at least I haven't. I don't think it would be your thing. You might find it in some crunchy, like vegan cafes, maybe. But it's caffeine free and it tastes kind of nutty and earthy. It's got maybe a coffee-like flavor if you really close your eyes. It's just not as bitter as regular coffee. I've actually had really yummy mushroom brews. And of course, there's tea. I don't think they're any healthier or more ethical, though. You know, and it's just there's nothing like the real thing. But the healthiest alternative that actually gets you energized in the mornings is an apple.

48:27So just brew an apple. No, no, no. You just eat it. Ah. Studies show an apple in the morning is a better wake me up because apples provide natural sugars and that helps energize you without the jitters or crash associated with the caffeine. They also contain fiber, which slows down the release of sugar into your bloodstream, leading to more sustained energy level throughout the day. But when I did my little experiment for the week, I was trying to have an apple in the morning and I still craved that bitter taste. So, yeah, it just hasn't caught on. I wish naps would catch on, but it's impossible for most of our lifestyles.

49:05I think it would be it would be amazing if the real health trend of 2025 is not some sort of weird mushroom latte or a caffeine tonic, but taking a stinking nap. We need everyone to just remember that we're allowed to rest. Right. I actually have coffee rules for myself. Now's probably a good time to talk about this. I have a caffeine curfew and I also use an app called High Coffee. so I will not drink caffeine after 2 or 4 p.m. It depends on what day it is, what I have to do the next day, usually 2 p.m. I just won't have any caffeine after that at all and I use an app called Hi Coffee. We'll link it in the show notes.

49:38Hi Coffee is in like hello coffee, H-I and you just put in like Diet Coke, espresso, latte from Starbucks and it shows you if you're gonna be able to sleep and at what time and also it shows you are you getting the max benefit from caffeine or did you just have enough caffeine throughout the day to be like sort of untired? I think it's called a caffeine boost or something in the app where if you have enough at once, it's like, okay, now you're kind of ready to work out and then you should just stop drinking coffee after that and then unless you have something else that you have to do. It's very cheap and effective and it shows you exactly how much caffeine you need so you don't drink anymore.

50:13And what I love is that sleep line where it's like, if you want to go to bed at nine, you better not have any coffee right now because here's where the graph is. And you're like, okay, I'm done. Yeah, that's incredible. I mean, there are a few different caffeine tracking apps that definitely takes discipline. So, yeah, I don't think people drinking lattes will be as into it. But I mean, you know, maybe we do just need the crash, though. So if we all did stop drinking the coffee for a week, you know, I did notice that you save a little bit of money when you're not drinking it every day. And but it's just so hard.

50:49And if you're relying on apps to like monitor your caffeine, I mean, that really shows how addicted we all are. I mean, people love their coffee. People love coffee so much. It's in beauty products now. Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, coffee is incorporated into a variety of beauty regimens. There's face and body scrubs. There's masks. There's eye creams, body creams. There's even hair treatments. So the caffeine in coffee is believed by some to offer benefits like exfoliation, reduction of puffiness and dark circles, even, you know, anti-cellulite effects. So people are using coffee externally, really?

51:29Yeah, I definitely wouldn't rush to lathering up with the coffee grinds just yet. But the wellness community has decided it's a good exfoliant and good for the skin. I dug into this a little bit and the science shows that coffee and other caffeinated drinks can actually interfere with collagen formation. and collagen is essential. It's an essential protein that gives your skin a youthful look. So by quitting caffeine, you may actually be able to slow down the development of fine lines and wrinkles and thus delay the visible signs of aging. I thought the antioxidants in coffee help with wrinkles.

52:06What the hell? You're right, sort of. But it's not the coffee that helps with the wrinkles. It's definitely the antioxidants in the caffeine. But there's just many other ways to get dietary antioxidants. Coffee is a good source, but it doesn't provide the same antioxidants as fruits and vegetables. So, you know, I mean, you can decide for yourself, have a ton of coffee or, you know, a salad. Okay. So yeah, caffeine is an antioxidant, but then also you can get it from something else. Okay. That's probably a better idea. So what's your advice? Should we stop drinking coffee or not? I mean, it's unfair, isn't it?

52:41You know, I feel like I've kind of been scammed since I started drinking coffee at 15. There is a big part of me that thinks coffee might be the biggest con on society ever. So, I mean, my advice is read up on the brands you buy, research the production standards of your favorite suppliers, you know, ask your barista at your local coffee shop where they get their beans, encourage your local supermarket to carry more certified brands, asking a few good questions will usually tell you most of what you need to know about the quality of your coffee. And if you have the willpower to quit coffee, then just go burn your loyalty punch card, eat an apple, drink some water, take a nap.

53:26But, you know, stop pretending like your exhaustion's a badge of honor. And if you must drink coffee, admit you're hooked and move on. Right. So we're not saying give it up. We're saying wake up to what's waking you up. Drink what you want, but know what you're drinking. And admit it's not just about energy. Take a nap. This episode, by the way, is brought to you by Dunkin'. No, I'm kidding. They'd have a caffeine stroke. In fact, I'm a little bit like, gotta make sure that we don't put Starbucks ads on this one. Thank you, Jessica, for brewing up the bitter facts. Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks, everybody, so much for listening.

53:58Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday to me, Jordan at jordanharbinger.com. Show notes on the website, advertisers, deals, discount codes, ways to support the show. all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Jessica on her sub stacks between the lines and where shadows linger. We'll link to those in the show notes as well. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Tata Sidlowskis, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi.

54:29Our advice and opinions are our own. I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer, and I don't know squat about coffee, as you know from this episode. So do your own research before implementing things you hear on the show. Maybe talk to a real doctor somewhere. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with a caffeine addict who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge that we doled out today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time.

54:56What if everything you've been told about building wealth is total BS? Scott Galloway joins me to dismantle the myths and lay out a brutally honest roadmap to financial security in today's economy. The greatest bump in mortality for men is one, when their spouse dies, and two, when they stop working. And when they lose their social fabric and their purpose, they get inactive, sometimes depressed. And when you get inactive and depressed, your brain kind of sends out a hormone or a message saying, oh, it's time to die. This person isn't adding any value. Supposedly, for every additional year you work, your life expectancy actually goes up.

55:30So what they don't teach you is the smart thing to do is the moment you have assets, start diversifying. And here's the thing. You don't need to be a hero. You don't need to find the needle in the haystack. Figure out what you're good at. Find a way to save more than you spend. Realize how fast time is going to go and diversify. This is what you become passionate about is when you get to our age, you become really passionate about taking care of your kids. You become really passionate about taking care of your parents and being able to take your spouse to really wonderful places, you become passionate about the absence of stress from your relationships that not having economic security injects into every relationship.

56:09Success in entrepreneurship is your ability to endure rejection, ability to endure failure. And entrepreneurship is really just a synonym for salespeople. Don't be an idiot. Follow these simple equations and you're going to be fine. Develop economic security for you and your family by finding something you're great at. Make some money, save some money, understand how fast time is going to go and diversify. If you've ever wondered why working hard isn't enough, check out episode 1074 with Scott Galloway.