1210: Can Justice Be Done When Broke and on the Run? | Feedback Friday

23:40I just feel like we're all very connected and I'm so grateful to be a part of it. Once you hop on the Deuce Cruise, you're family for life. All the drama just brings us closer together. But I love that you're now a traveling brand ambassador for Feedback Friday on the show. Again, a little envious, not going to lie, and a little worried that our European listeners are going to be horribly disappointed when they eventually meet me. It's all downhill from here, folks. All right, Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag? Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a licensed registered nurse who took off several years to stay home to raise my two children.

24:10Three years ago, I was hired by my child's school as a teacher's assistant and quickly gained a lot of close work relationships and rapport with the students. I wanted to work a job that kept me close to my kids, as we have no family nearby and my husband works crazy hours in public safety, making me the primary parent. So when a health clerk position opened, I was highly encouraged to interview for it due to my background in nursing. It was a natural fit, and I learned the job within just a few weeks. My job is full-time and very intense. I serve a population of 800 students and staff alone. I'm the point of contact for all emergencies, and I see upwards of 50 students in my office daily, where I treat injuries and illnesses, contact parents, document office visits, keep records for all immunizations, and so much more.

24:57But I make$19 ,000 a year with zero benefits. Wow, that's insane. For that amount of work, that is absolutely nuts. I'm surprised to hear that, yeah. After two months, my boss, the nurse manager, told me that my talents as an RN are entirely wasted in this role, and said they had an open third nurse manager position they would hold for me. The promotion would land me$75 ,000 a year and full benefits. Great. Wow. Finally getting paid what you're worth. The only problem? I don't have my bachelor's. When I mentioned this, my boss told me that my name was already on the position and pestered me for months to start online school.

25:33I finally did, and now I'm eight months into a 12-month BSN program. Then, yesterday, I learned that they went ahead and hired another nurse outside of the district to fill the role that they had promised me. I was blindsided. Had they not goaded me, I wouldn't have gone back to school for a grueling program without having something lined up on the other side of graduation. So now, here I sit, going through a costly and time-consuming program that I thought would be for a promotion, and all I got was disappointment and a flippant sorry from my boss. I know nothing is guaranteed, but I can't help but feel let down and unsure where to go from here.

26:09My motivation to continue in my current role is diminished. I don't want to have a knee-jerk reaction because my feelings are hurt, but I also know that I'm worth much more. Where do I go from here? Signed, trying to hatch a play after my dream was snatched away. First of all, I'm really sorry things went this way. Your boss got your hopes up. You put in a ton of work to satisfy the requirements for this role. The stakes were super high. Between the money and the benefits and the reward for all of this hard work and the pressure on you to provide and be the primary parent, man, you had pretty good reason to be excited.

26:42And it really, yeah, it sucks that this didn't go your way. It sucks. I mean, you were going to make like four times the money. And the fact that your boss wasn't more apologetic, that they didn't break this news more kindly, help you understand maybe why they made the decision, maybe help find other opportunities for you. It just kind of makes everything worse. So where do you go from here? Well, I think you need to go through the phase that you're in now, where you're angry and you're sad and you're stunned and you're hurt and you kind of feel like the wind's gone out of your sails. You're mourning this job and everything that would have come with it.

27:12Of course, you were looking at the vacations you were going to take, the debt you were going to pay off, the car you were going to buy, all that stuff. The next phase is really going to be about coming to terms with this, easing into a new reality where you're two-thirds of the way through this degree, you're not getting your job, maybe you don't have a game plan yet, but you've settled into this timeline and it doesn't hurt as much. And that might take a few weeks or a month or more. I don't know, but it'll kind of happen on its own. But once you get to that point of acceptance and maybe you're already getting there, that's where things get interesting because that's when you can start to look around and go, what do I want to do?

27:49What's my new goal? Do I want to apply for the same job in another school district? Do I want to apply for a different role? Are there any new opportunities popping up? Maybe ones that are even better than this position I thought was mine. Do I want to pivot to a new field? Only you can answer those questions and it might take some time. But what I want you to make room for is the idea that not getting what you want sucks. It's devastating and it's unfair. And it's also going to open up new opportunities for you because that's how life works. Always. I know this firsthand. Also, you can make life work that way more and more in the way that you process and respond to these setbacks.

28:26The more you allow yourself to grieve and accept, the more you open yourself up to an unexpected timeline, the more quickly you get to the part where you go, man, that really sucked. But it's also so funny because then this happened and then I met that person and then I had time to pursue that opportunity and dot, dot, dot, you end up somewhere way better and with more appreciation too. I just want to be clear. I'm not telling you how to feel. I'm not saying you're wrong for being upset. Kind of the opposite, actually. Being upset is just part of this process. What I'm saying, when you're ready, you zoom out, and I think you'll be amazed at what you find.

28:57But you know, Gabe, I want to point out something that might be important for her to see. Her boss promised her this great role. It's a huge pay raise, a much better position. She had lots of good reasons to take it. This is just stuck in my craw, though. She said she took months to start the program, the college, the bachelor's thing, and that it was only after her boss pestered her to do it. Ah, good point. Yeah, because if I'm in her shoes, I'm signing up for online school that evening when I get home from work. Yeah, why did she drag her feet on that? I don't get it. So part of me is going, did your boss get frustrated with the timeline and then choose someone else because you were dragging ass?

29:35Did they think you didn't want the role very much and they just found somebody who did? Did they not have a lot of loyalty to you because they didn't see your commitment? I don't know. I don't know. That might explain her boss's flippin' sorry with no explanation. Maybe the guy's an a-hole, but maybe he's like, okay, I had to beg you to do the prereq just to get the job. The rest of that sentence might've been, instead of just sorry, it might've been, sorry you weren't motivated enough to grab this opportunity that I stuck my neck out to get it and then hold for you. And look, I realize I am speculating a bit here.

30:07I could be totally wrong. And I'm sure we'll get an email that says, you don't know what you're talking about. But when somebody offers you an opportunity like this, you gotta meet that opportunity with enthusiasm and gratitude, follow through, you really have to honor it. You got to meet it with the right attitude. I know this isn't fun to hear. Again, I'm speculating, but I just feel like I'd be remiss if I didn't point this out. Because whether that's the reason you didn't get this job or not, there's a part of you that wants to drag your feet and that tendency is not going to serve you well in the future.

30:39The good news is, hey, this kind of crap is how you learn. And now that you're aware of this, you will never make this mistake again. And you'll have a bachelor's anyways. And you can start to rewrite that tendency now by finishing the program that you started despite the demotivating situation that you've run into here and meeting all of your future opportunities with the right spirit. And look, you got this. You're already 70 % of the way there. Good luck. And now we're going to immunize you against paying way too much for the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

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33:11That's BullenBranch, B-O-L-L-A-N-D, branch.com slash Jordan, to save 15 % and unlock free shipping. Exclusions apply. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps the lights on around here. All of the deals, discounts, and ways to support the podcast are searchable and clickable over on the website at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, next up. Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a 42-year-old single female, and I met my main friend in my friend group, let's call her Jess, back in 2005.

33:48And I know what Jordan is going to say. Yes, she chose the name Jess. No, we did not come up with that name. Do not write us angry emails about always going with Jess. I can see it on his face, and I'm just going to spare him. Yeah, just cringing. Clenching sphincters. Last summer, while on a group trip that I was unable to attend, Jess told a friend of ours that she thought another guy in the group, Nick, was cute, and that she was going to ask him out. She's told me this story two or three times, as recently as a few weeks ago, and each time her retelling was always the same, that she asked him out and that he said he wasn't interested.

34:21Each time she told it, my takeaway was how affronted she seemed that he said no to her. They never hung out or texted. Then, two weeks ago, Nick asked me out via text while Jess was overseas on vacation. Before responding to him, I immediately thought I should run it by Jess. But she was on vacation, and I was unsure about how it would affect her. So I decided to call a mutual friend in the group to ask whether I would be a total a-hole for accepting Nick's invitation to hang out. My friend, who was with Jess on that trip last year and knew of the exchange between Jess and Nick, described the situation as, Jess shot her shot and Nick said he wasn't interested.

34:58That's it. She also went on to say that Nick and Jess don't have many things in common, but that she thought he and I definitely do, and I should definitely go for it, and I wouldn't be an a-hole at all for doing so, and that she doubted Jess would make a big deal about it. Famous last word. So let me guess, Jess totally understood and was so happy for you guys, and there was no drama as a result. Yep. That's the end of the story. Okay. And then they went to the apotica to get ice cream. Perfect. Perfect. Granted, this was the answer that I wanted to hear because I was interested in him as well, so I decided to oblige him.

35:30We ended up hanging out three times in one week and have both exchanged the same sentiments that we really like each other and would like to see where things go. When I texted Jess, I told her I just wanted to give her a heads up that Nick had asked me out and that we'd hung out a couple of times and I wanted to let her know, even though they never connected. She said that the time to tell her would have been before we hung out. I explained that I didn't do that because she was on vacation and I didn't think it would have been the right time. When I asked her what would have been different if I told her the day he asked me out as opposed to a few days later, she didn't answer.

36:02Okay, so yeah, nothing would have changed. That's the answer. That's basically the story, yeah. And when I asked if she had feelings for Nick, she said that she didn't, but she did have feelings about, quote, someone she introduced into this friend group going out with a guy she was interested in and felt shitty about being rejected by and not saying a word until they'd been hanging out, unquote. Yeah, no, ridiculous. What a petty stance to take. I brought you into this group and this is how you repay me by going out with a guy you really click with who turned me down a year ago. A year ago. That's not even lame.

36:36That's actually insane. Like, I'm still hurt by this. One, red flag, like weird. Two, so you can't do anything because you're rubbing it in to like my ego hurts even more. I don't care if you like him. This is very weird. That response really upset me. Yeah. I felt it was a low blow for her to bring up that she brought me into this friend group, as though I'm on some conditional probationary period, and I've somehow committed an infraction against her and the group. Exactly. So I told her I was going to go because I wasn't in the headspace to respond to what she just said. I understand why she feels how she feels about what I did.

37:13Of course I do. Look, I'm not sure I do, but okay, you're just a better person than me. No surprise. But she asked him out over a year ago. Look, this is what I'm saying. We seem to be all the same page. If they were in a relationship and they dated for a while, that would, okay, like, I don't really want my friend dating my ex. This is not that at all. And I understand feelings of rejection and embarrassment, but I didn't know that she still felt that way now. Yeah. I'm hoping that she just spoke in anger and needed some time to cool off, but it's been a few days and I haven't heard from her.

37:45The more I think about it, the more I feel this was largely a miscommunication and a misunderstanding of where her head was. Now I'm struggling with what to do and worrying that she sees me as an untrustworthy person and that our friendship is ruined. Did I seriously mess up here? Signed, having major regrets and try not to fret after sending that text. No, you did not seriously mess up here. You assumed, like a rational person, that your friend had moved on from this rejection after a freaking year and that she wouldn't take it as a personal offense if you went out with this guy that you have so much in common with.

38:18The fact that she's treating this like a betrayal of your friendship, that she's lording over you, the fact that she brought you into the friend group and she's assuming that this guy's off limits because she couldn't be with him. This is absurd. Selfish and absurd, totally unwarranted. Where I would say, okay, maybe you did screw up a little, and I think you already know this, was in putting off sending that text before you hung out. Not so much because you needed her permission to accept Nick's invitation. You guys are adults. he asked you out. They never even hung out. Their plot line literally went nowhere.

38:49But on a practical level, and maybe as a matter of basic respect slash CYA, it might have been wise to send her a text saying, hey, sorry to bother you with this while you're on vacation, but Nick asked me out. I know you were interested in him at one point. I'm assuming that's all in the rearview mirror. I just wanted to tell you before we hang out, so there's no misunderstanding or weirdness, if you have any feelings about this, I'm happy to talk. Just let me know where you are. Something like that. Less asking for permission, more getting out ahead of a potential problem. You're not saying, are you cool with it?

39:20You're saying, this is what's happening. Just so you know, I'm happy to hear your thoughts on this. Honestly, with a more well-adjusted person, this wouldn't even be a problem. You probably wouldn't even need to send a text like that. Dude, I'm trying to put myself in her shoes, Gabriel. If we're both single and I asked out a girl a year ago and she was like, oh, sorry. No, you know, not like that. I'd be like, okay. And I might be bummed, but I don't think a year later I'd be like, and then Julie ignored me. She had the gall to say not, I don't like you. Like I just wouldn't think about that.

39:52And then a year later you're like, hey, that girl's sort of like interested in me. I would just be like, oh, cool. She's cool. I tried to ask her out and she wasn't into it. Like, I just don't, I can't imagine the universe where I would give two shits about that. Like, it's always nice to signal to a friend, hey, I care about you. I want to do this thoughtfully. Like if you had said like, hey, Julie asked me out, I would be like, oh, I appreciate that. I don't think it would be super necessary. It's just it's thoughtful. No, totally. The fact that you didn't send that text. I know you said it was because she was on vacation, but I think you were also probably avoiding that conversation because you suspected that it would not go well.

40:26So you sort of knew that in advance. Yeah, because she knew this was a minefield for Jess's ego based on the way she told the story multiple times. Right, because she was so affronted by Nick turning her down. So there's that. She was like, yeah, I don't want to create an obstacle. I don't want to deal with. I'm just going to kick the can down the road and hope this isn't as bad as I think, which I understand that impulse for sure. You know, one of the things that I've learned as I've gotten a little older, whenever you feel that tug, like, oh, I probably should have a chat with this person, you know, especially when your first instinct is like, no, I'm just going to push that off as long as possible and hope that it doesn't go as badly as I think it will.

41:00Yeah, you have the chat. You have the chat. You send the text. Those are signals that the chat is probably necessary, but it's going to be hard. So you're trying to avoid it. And she knows that. I appreciated her honesty when she said, granted, when my friend told me I had nothing to worry about, that was the answer I wanted to hear. That's 2020 hindsight, I assume. But sometimes we need to listen to that gut instinct there. So it's an interesting thing that happened here. Jess is clearly a tricky person sometimes. She sounds very tender in this department. Her ego is vulnerable. Our friend here said that she understands feelings of rejection and embarrassment, but I'm not sure that she does fully, not with a person like this.

41:34Turning just down wasn't just hurtful or embarrassing. That's how a normal person would process that rejection. It sounds like it was kind of an injury, a narcissistic injury, a real blow to her sense of self. The fact that her main takeaway was how affronted she was that he said no to her and that she's still telling the story as recently as a few weeks ago is actually a little scary. Dude, I'm thinking about, and granted, these are not people in my friendship circle, Gabriel, But I'm thinking about when I was on my 20s and 30s, like mission to get good with women. Right. Rejection was such a fact of life of that process.

42:06Hundreds of women were like, no, thank you or not returning my time. And I never was like, can you believe this bitch? Never, because otherwise I would have nothing. I would have no free time at all. My life would be consumed with this. And she's telling the story a year later. It's like a little mentally ill sounding. A little alarming. Yeah. So you have a very different lens on this kind of experience. But just imagine the collection of feelings and life experiences, wounds, self-concepts that would create a response like the one Jess had. When rejection gets refracted through that prism, it can be more than just hurtful or disappointing.

42:43It can put somebody in touch with inadequacy, shame, low self-worth. You know, those are tough. I suppose those can sometimes feel almost fatal for certain people. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good word. And that's when the defenses kick in, right? And it sounds like Jess's defense is probably a few different things, but one of them is kind of grandiosity, right? Right. He doesn't know what he's missing. I'm actually offended that he said no. What an idiot. And also, I invited you into this friend group. How dare you go out with a guy I was interested in? Well, what she says is she views this whole thing as a status game.

43:14Like, well, you've put yourself above me in this group and I'm supposed to be above you in this group. And it's like, other people aren't really thinking about that like that. making yourself feel powerful, devaluing somebody, superiority stuff. That's just all, it's all nonsense for insecure people. If I can't get the guy, I can at least be Queen Bee. Ah, yeah. Anyway, sorry for this long tangent. We're psychoanalyzing your annoying friend. I didn't mean to go down that rabbit hole, but my point is just, I think you probably underestimated just how fragile your friend really is. Although, come on, does that mean that it's our friend here's fault?

43:44Like, sorry, I didn't realize your ego was so fragile and you were so hypersensitive that you we're going to overreact. No, it's not her fault at all. These are Jess's feelings to deal with. She might have stirred them up, but that doesn't mean she's responsible for them. Yeah. Okay. I feel the same. But our friend here on some level intuited this fragility in Jess, even if she didn't appreciate how severe it actually is. And then she cramped around it by not sending the text, which was both to spare Jess on her vacation, but also to spare herself for reasons that would also be really good for her to understand.

44:12But that gave Jess ammunition to confirm to herself, oh yeah, this actually was a betrayal because she only told me afterward, which only reinforces the lens that made her experience Nick's rejection as a near fatal offense, right? So that's what I find interesting, how two friends, one of them largely blameless and well-meaning, even if maybe a little avoidant in this instance, how two friends can inadvertently create a conflict like this. So the next time she's in this situation, maybe she can notice this tendency to spare slash protect other people and herself and just choose to lean into it?

44:44Yeah, that's it. And to be clear, it's no guarantee that Jess would have been completely okay with this. I think it's very likely that she still would have blown up at her. That's what I'm getting hung up on, man. Like, what would satisfy this woman if she's still nursing a rejection from a year ago? So the goal isn't so much to satisfy the Jesses of the world. The goal is to communicate and conduct yourself in a way that gives everybody the information that they probably deserve at the best possible moment so that you can know that you're on solid ground. And then if Jess or any other Jess in your life ever does have a difficult reaction, it's a lot clearer what's Jess's stuff and what's our friend here stuff.

45:21And it just avoids the messy emotional math of a semi-conscious dynamic playing out. Just playing devil's advocate here, is there a world where she is choosing a guy over her friend here? I appreciate you bringing it up because it is interesting to imagine it from another angle. But given the facts, I don't know if I see it that way. I think it's more accurate to say that Jess is putting this guy between the two of them by insisting that she has some claim on him that really doesn't exist. That's a good point. But also to be fair to Jess, who does deserve one good chance to try this a different way, she might want to go to Jess and try to work through this and help her see that she's not trying to hurt her by dating Nick and that this doesn't need to be the choice.

45:58Yes. If I were Jess, I'd want to be asking myself, why does this hurt so much? Who am I really angry at? Are these expectations really fair? Why am I standing in the way of my friend's happiness? Why does that happiness have to come at my expense? That's really her work to do. Your work is in the way you responded to her and also enjoying this relationship with Nick. That's more W-E-R-K than W-O-R-K. So go get it, girl. But it sounds like a fun and potentially promising relationship. And if Jess can't see that, sadly, she might not be a true friend to you at all. So good luck. You can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com.

46:32Keep your emails concise. Try to use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job a whole lot easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, or live ones for that matter, your stepdad's got your nudes, your neighbors are eavesdropping on your therapy sessions through the wall, or your sister's dating a mooching member of a 1 % outlaw motorcycle gang, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday at jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. By the way, if you haven't signed up yet, come check out our newsletter, We Bit Wiser. It's a bite-sized gem from a past episode from us to you delivered to your inbox on most Wednesdays.

47:03It is a great companion to the show. Very practical two-minute read. JordanHarbinger.com slash news is where you can find it. All right, next up. Okay, so just a heads up that this question deals with some very intense stuff. Pretty dark in case you're, I don't know, blasting this episode on a Bluetooth speaker at a children's birthday party or something. Famously how most people listen to the show. Right? Just listening on a Bose flex sound while a clown does animal balloons in the background? Okay, let's get to the letter. Dear Jordan and Gabe, For years, my 15-year-old experienced numerous health problems.

47:36In September 2023, I discovered the source. She finally told her psychiatrist here in Uganda that her Sunday school principal at our church, a 40-something-year-old woman, had been sexually abusing her since she was nine. I hate this already. More recently, she had subjected my child to gang rapes by her relatives and numerous strangers. This involved choking, burning her with lighters, urinating on her, and severe beatings. My God, I've already read this letter, by the way, and I am just speechless all over again, because it's one of the worst things I can imagine learning as a parent. It is beyond comprehension.

48:16We reported this to the police. The case was not investigated. Instead, we got death threats. My daughter told me that she had kept quiet because they had threatened to do the same to her younger sister. My eldest daughter lives in Canada, and I'm fortunate to have gotten visitor visas for all of us. When the threats escalated, we flew to Canada and are now refugee claimants. My child now suffers from serious PTSD and even had psychogenic non-epileptic seizures. She continued to get death threats from her abuser, and I was relieved when the doctors here in Canada stopped her from accessing her phone.

48:51She's been in and out of different mental hospitals since September 2024. The flashbacks are brutal to witness. The suicide attempts are frequent, even in hospital, under 24-hour guard. Your poor daughter. It's just so unspeakably sad. I'm so sorry to hear this. I hate it. Then, this week, she called me from the hospital and wailed for several minutes as she told me that the principal had also sexually abused my youngest child. This explains why my now 12-year-old has bad anxiety, is very clingy, and was scared of English lessons at their school. I just can't even imagine. Both your daughters.

49:27This principal is obviously a psychopath and a monster. This is the kind of thing that makes me just, if I could personally hunt this woman down and take vigilante justice, I would do that. I'm just going to leave it at that. I mean, it's unbelievable. It makes you wish for somebody to do terrible things to these people. It's just horrible. Makes you want to go full Liam Neeson on this woman, I know. Absolutely. Yeah, John Wick. We are all in therapy, including a DBT parenting group for me. My PTSD girl has yet to start trauma treatment because she is chronically suicidal. Guys, this has been a terrible couple of years.

50:03I spent all of my retirement savings relocating us from Uganda and was able to live off of these for almost a year. I've been unable to work because of the chaos and my own trauma. I hope to start freelance writing and editing soon. We get Ontario Works, government assistance basically, and use the food bank, but I can't afford the rent. I manage to get a house by paying 10 months rent in advance to make up for not having the requisite references and credit history or pay stubs. In the meantime, I am completely broke, stuck, in pain, and scared. But I am a woman of faith and believe that God will bring healing to all of us.

50:39What can I do to earn an income knowing that complex PTSD is a long-term issue? What can I do to get justice for my daughter while in Canada and get international authorities to investigate this school and the principal? And how can I ever heal from the pain of knowing this was going on under my nose? The betrayal and broken trust. Signed, a broken-hearted mom trying to get on after this massive bomb. There are some stories that are just so awful and so painful that there are no good words. Yeah. As a parent, as an advised show host, whatever, as a human being, my heart just breaks for you and your daughters.

51:13I just can't even believe that this happened. I can't believe they were abused and trafficked by this woman. The principal at their Sunday school, it's like this is straight out of a horror movie. It's a crime. It's a betrayal. Absolutely disgusting and despicable. Evil, frankly, thing to do to two young girls. Furious doesn't cut it. I'm angry at the police for not investigating. how useless of a human are you if you're a cop and you're like nah I just I don't I can't relate I'm heartbroken for you I really I just don't have enough words to express my sadness for what you and your girls have been through so where to begin I guess I want to start by saying these awful things that your daughters and you frankly have been through tragically they've happened they've clearly had an impact on them your oldest especially and it sounds like no matter what you do or how hard you work, you're going to have to accept that all three of you are now in a very intense, very complicated process.

52:08And it's not going to be easy for a while. It'll take time. It might be very bumpy. I say that not to pile on. I say that because I don't want to gloss over the reality of what is happening to them by diving right into practical solutions. There's a huge piece of this problem that doesn't have a practical solution. As a mother having no control at this point over what happened, I think you're going to have to hold two truths in your mind at the same time. One truth is that your daughters desperately need your love, your hard work, your intervention. You got to fight like hell for them. The other truth is that you cannot heal them overnight.

52:42You cannot undo what has been done to them. You cannot make this okay. It's not okay. So you're probably going to be in an ongoing process of acceptance and grief and chaos for some time, maybe even a long time. And I want to make room for that because I'm sure you're going to come up against the limits of your ability many times. And there will be moments where you'll have to say to yourself, this is horrible. This is heartbreaking. This is terrifying. And I have to accept that this is what's happening. I have to let my daughters process this however they will. I have to make peace with this pain.

53:14I have to surrender. I also imagine your faith will play a big role in that. And if so, I say, great, as long as that faith is compatible with action, which it sounds like it is. So let's talk about action. You need a job. You need to be able to financially support your daughters, your best strategy, and this won't be a surprise to you, will be to start cultivating relationships wherever you go all the time. The person behind the desk at the food bank, at the employment center, these have to become your new allies, win those people over. Your neighbor who's lived in Ontario longer than you have, make them your new BFF.

53:46The stranger sitting next to you at church in your DBT support group, turn to those people, introduce yourself, talk about the service, the support group, get to know them on a personal level. And And by the way, well done on getting yourself to that support group in the first place. I'm so glad you're surrounding yourself with these resources, these people. That is excellent. And to be clear, I don't mean this in a cynical way. I'm not telling you to just view everyone you meet as a tool for employment, but there is a practical aspect to relationship building. The more you meet and get to know people, the more goodwill you build, the more dots you can put on the board to connect up, the sooner you're going to land a decent job.

54:20And obviously, you have to do all the other things. apply for jobs, invest in your skills, figure out how you can be most useful to people, pick up the phone, call organizations, pitch yourself, maybe you volunteer at your church fundraiser or whatever, all of that. I love that you're already exploring writing and editing. It sounds like you have real skills that will be valuable to a lot of different people, which is terrific. But the glue, the fuel, it's always going to be the quality of your relationships. And obviously, I got to plug six minute networking, sixminutenetworking.com. I've said this before, this stuff is not just about landing a job.

54:53It's about building a life that's supported and organized by your relationships. This stuff is just as crucial for an asylum seeker as it is for an executive who's trying to rise up. And obviously, I probably don't have to say that it's free, but it's free. So please take advantage of six-minute networking. Now, about getting justice, that's a much more complicated question. Gabe, I'm a little bit at a loss on this one. They're in Canada now, thank God. The police in Uganda either didn't take it seriously or just refused to do anything about it because corruption, possibly. I don't know. I'm not even sure why the police would even start now doing anything.

55:28So is getting justice even the right thing to focus on at this point at all? Yeah, I mean, it's certainly a fair thing to want to focus on. Her daughters have been victimized. They deserve justice. And also other victims, there must be others. They deserve protection, too. So I get it. No, for sure. I just mean, with all of this turbulence and pain and the more pressing issue of earning enough money, should she also be spending her precious time and energy trying to get justice for what happened back home? No, right. Yeah, fair point. And it's a good question. Only she can really answer that. But I do agree that her number one priority needs to be getting a career that will stabilize them, take care of them.

56:01I imagine it's going to be hard to fight the good fight on the justice front without, you know, having a secure roof over their heads and food in the fridge and knowing that her daughter is not immediately at risk of suicide and all of that. But when you're ready, and I think you'll know when it's time, I would consider reaching out to some people who can help you draw some attention to your case. I'm thinking legal aid organizations. I'm thinking religious nonprofits that focus on community support. You know, maybe folks that focus on holding people in the church world accountable. I'm also thinking journalists in Uganda and maybe also in Canada who cover crimes like this or religious abuse or police corruption or failures of justice more broadly.

56:40Or refugees who come to Canada seeking asylum and what they're fleeing back home just to throw another angle in there, because maybe they're like, well, we can't do anything about this, but we can show why people come to Canada, what they're, the desperation that they face back home. Great idea. You write these people with your beautiful writing skills and you say, hi, I'm so-and-so. I've been following your work in this area. Thank you for what you do. Here's what happened to my daughters at this school. Here's how the system failed us. I want justice. I need guidance. And I would be very grateful to partner with you on bringing this to light and holding these people accountable.

57:13I think if you're going to get the right people to pay attention in Uganda at this point, it's probably going to be because a lawyer takes up your case or your daughter's story appears in a major newspaper or something. And the article says these girls were trafficked and abused and the mother went to the police and the police did nothing. And someone from on high reads that and goes, oh, shit, this is a problem now. We got to look into this or it's going to look even worse. Totally. Look, it shouldn't work this way. But sadly, it often does. It often does. And this isn't always successful, but it can be.

57:43It's going to take a lot of work, but you might be amazed by the people you will connect with. And that kind of support can really snowball and it can make a real difference. It's interesting, Gabe. Both of her questions, how do I make money and how do I get justice, in a big way, they both come down to how she tells her story. Thank goodness she's a writer. Yeah, you took the words right out of my mouth. She has to become a storyteller now. Look, I'm sure the last thing she wants to do is tell a stranger at a job fair or whatever, hey, my daughters were horrifically abused by their Sunday school principal.

58:09I desperately need a job to pay for the therapy. Not that she's even the type of person who would do that. No, but doing that in the right way, I do think that needs to be part of her strategy here, for sure. Absolutely. Again, I'm not encouraging her to be cynical about this. I'm not saying, you know, trot out your tale of woe to curry favor with everyone you meet so they'll have pity on you. But this story, it's so heartbreaking and it's extremely powerful because of that. Totally. I'm watching her movie. I'm invested in that story. That's what I'm talking about. She needs people to invest. in her, whether it's asking someone to introduce her to hiring managers or getting a therapist to give her an affordable rate or getting a landlord to lower the rent, whatever it is that she needs.

58:49So I'll let you decide how and when to tell your story. It's your story. I can't tell you how to talk about something this personal, but I do want to encourage you to get comfortable with the idea of sharing these parts of your story with people, just as you did with us, as difficult as it must be. You have to give people a window into your life. You have to give them a reason to care. And when they hear what you've been going through and they see how hard you're working, not just waiting for somebody to save you, I think you might be shocked by how much people show up for you. I totally agree.

59:19Before we wrap up here, let's talk about what healing might look like. I'm with Jordan. This is going to be a long road. I imagine it's not going to be linear. Obviously, therapy is going to be a huge component. And again, kudos to you for getting your daughters and yourself into treatment, into hospitals when necessary, into the support group. I commend you so much for that. And I really hope you in the hospitals can help stabilize your oldest daughter. It sounds like she's in a lot of pain. I can't even imagine how hard that must be to watch. I'm just so sorry. The other big form of healing is going to come through your friendships, your family, your connection to God, to finding meaning in suffering, and also just the love that you and your daughters give one another.

1:00:00I think you know that. But what you're wrestling with specifically is the pain of knowing that this abuse is going on under your nose, so to speak, of being betrayed by a trusted person who was in a position of authority. And that is a very unique pain. I don't have any easy answers there. Your anger, your hurt, they are real. They're appropriate. I'm not sure how you're supposed to immediately convert those feelings into something else or heal them overnight. And honestly, I'm not sure that you should. I mean, that anger might end up being quite useful when she channels it into the job search, into reaching out to people about sharing her story.

1:00:35Yeah, definitely. And maybe that's a form of healing too. But look, at the beginning of the segment, Jordan, you said that she's going to have to move between these two ideas, that she needs to fight like hell and she needs to surrender. Yes. And I think that this is one area where she probably needs to surrender for the moment. The pain that she's in is unavoidable. It can't be undone. I do hope in time that it eases up. Maybe it'll evolve, but she can't fast forward through that. She can only sit with it and yeah, use it as motivation. Follow it into relationships and opportunities that can help her and her family, of course.

1:01:06But all of that will still involve self-forgiveness and it will require a lot of acceptance. It kind of pains me to leave you with a thought because, you know, what do I know about a pain like this? I don't. And if I were in your shoes, I would want to get rid of the feeling too. I would want to heal as soon as possible. I guess I'll just offer you two things. One is, surrendering does not mean giving up. there's a difference. And two, how do I put this exactly? It's such a big concept, but so much of life is uncontrollable, right? Uncontrollable and non-negotiable. A lot of things just happen.

1:01:38They happen to us. And sometimes they are really bad things. And they leave us with very intense, very complicated feelings that just have no easy remedies. And I think they push us to a place that the mind cannot do anything about on its own. It seems to me that you're in one of those situations. now. And you're going to find your own way through it. And I'm confident that the answers and the relief that you're looking for, they will come in time. But until they do, I do think you're going to have to give yourself over to these feelings without trying to change them too much. So if you can't forgive yourself, then maybe try accepting.

1:02:13And if you can't accept, then, you know, just allow. And if even that is difficult, then maybe just observe. You know, I don't think that this is a mental experience anymore. It's really, it's a spiritual one. This is so intense. I 100 % understand why she's struggling. As a parent, it's your duty to protect your children. Even those stories like this show that you can't always do that. And you feel like you failed if you don't. If I were in her shoes, I don't think I'd be handling this half as well as she is, honestly. And I mean, she moved to another country. The whole thing is kind of impressive and amazing.

1:02:44But still, I would encourage you to not turn this rage you feel against yourself too much. Although I completely understand why this happens. You've entrusted this educator with your children, which virtually all parents do all the time. And she violated that trust. She took that responsibility, which is a sacred one. And she did literally the worst thing she could have done with it. And I know I said this at the top, but this woman, these men, they deserve to, at the very least, rot in prison for life for what they did to your children. And God knows how many other children. This is monstrous.

1:03:15And I have to believe that some form of justice is coming for her. People like this are a disease on humanity. And I am so deeply sorry that your family crossed paths with somebody like this. It's terrifying to me that they're the principal of a Sunday school. I mean, this is like what you hear from QAnon, except it's real life. It's absolutely insane. But listen, you're doing so much right here. The immigrant journey is not an easy one. There will be very tough periods. You're incredibly courageous to make this transition. And I know it might not seem like it. but your daughters are lucky to have a mother who's creating a new home for them, who's working hard to support them through this, and who's taking care of herself.

1:03:52Which is equally important, by the way. I'm glad you touched on that. Yeah, you're in your own recovery process, too, and that's essential for your daughter's healing. I'm so impressed with what you've accomplished so far. I'm very proud of how you're showing up to this, frankly, unimaginable situation, sending you and your daughters a big hug and wishing you all the best. You know who won't make a tasteless ad pivot after a letter like Oh my gosh. We'll be right back.

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1:05:18Unlock your brain's full potential free for 30 days by going to brain.fm slash Jordan. That's brain.fm slash Jordan for 30 days free. This episode is also sponsored by BetterHelp. We all run into challenges in life and in relationships. That's just part of being human. What makes the difference is how you manage those challenges. For us, therapy has become part of that routine. We use BetterHelp every week. It's something we look forward to. It's a reset, a chance to work through things with somebody who's trained to help. BetterHelp makes that process easy. They've been around for over 10 years with more than 30 ,000 licensed therapists, helping over 6 million people.

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1:06:23Find the one with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10 % off their first month at BetterHelp.com. That's BetterHelp.com. This episode is sponsored in part by The Defender. We all have those big goals that seem just out of reach, right? but the truth is, that's what keeps us moving forward. For the people who embrace challenges and explore their way, there's the Defender. The Defender is built to handle whatever comes its way with legendary capability, on road or off. It's engineered with a tough, rigid body, tested to the extreme, and built with durable, lightweight architecture for strength and confidence.

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1:07:39If that doesn't work, you can email us jordan at jordanharbinger.com. We are happy to surface codes for you because it's that important that you support those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. All right, and now for the recommendation of the week. I am addicted to lit filler. So at the top of the episode, I mentioned that I just got back from this amazing road trip. And I think part of the reason it was so amazing is that I did much less planning for this trip than I have ever done. I didn't have a set return date. I didn't have a detailed itinerary. I just kind of booked one day at a time, maybe two days, sometimes not even knowing where I was going to sleep that very night.

1:08:15And it all started because I just booked the rental car and, you know, that was it. I was like, oh, well, now I have to do it because I already have to go to Avis in the morning and get the car, right? And then I booked my Airbnb for the first night in the car on the way to Avis. and I just kind of managed the whole trip like that with just a couple, you know, guiding lights to give the trip a little bit of shape and it's been the best part of my time in Europe so far. The whole experience reminded me just how little planning and how little certainty we actually need to have a really great time or just to do something awesome.

1:08:45All you have to do really is take one step toward the thing you want, just one. And sometimes you kind of have to force yourself to do it. I was a little bit in that mindset. I was like, uh, when am I going to do it? Should I do it this week. Maybe I can do it next week. And I was like, you know what? Now is my moment. I'm going to go book the reservation at Davis and then I'm committed. But it's interesting because like the mind does not like having one step done and not the other 10 already at least mapped out. But you usually don't have to do the other 10. You can just do them as you go and it's better.

1:09:13Totally. Or you won't even end up needing to do them at all. Yes, exactly. So this applies to something small like a road trip. It also applies to bigger things, career goals, creative projects, you know, habits you want to develop, whatever. When I made my short film a couple years ago, my first big step was writing the script and then asking my friend Brenna to be my producer. And then after that, it was like a wave got created and I can't even take credit for it. She brought the project to a production company. They brought all their expertise. Before I knew it, we had a great DP and bigger actors and more budget and better locations and better post-production.

1:09:47And the whole thing just had its own logic. It's had its own momentum. And All I had to do was kind of guide it and make the most of it. And that's how the best things are in life, I think. So my recommendation of the week is not having everything planned out before you begin something. Just taking the first step and then see what happens. I'm a big fan of this. I'm going to do more travels in the spirit. Amen to all that, Gabe. And I would add living this way can be a little nerve wracking, can be hard if you run a little anxious, because like you said, it does involve a degree of uncertainty.

1:10:16But that's also what I love about doing stuff this way. It kind of forces you to increase your capacity for that uncertainty. And to me, there's a very fine line between uncertainty and anticipation. The uncertainty actually heightens the fun because you're constantly surprised and you don't know exactly what's going to happen next. So you're also retraining your brain to experience uncertainty in a new way. And that can change how you navigate so many things in life. Hey, solid rec. Also, in case y 'all don't know, there's a subreddit for the show if you want to jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes.

1:10:48If there was an episode you really liked, an episode you really didn't like, or you want to share some additional thoughts or learn more from other people in the show, fam, definitely check it out. There's really some fun conversations happening in there, a lot of venting and back-and-forth good-faith debates that are polite. You can find that in the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. All right, next up. Hello, Jordan and Gabe. My girlfriend and I listen to Feedback Friday weekly, and something we've noticed becoming more common is letter writers going overboard in adding redundant, useless, or smarmy information in their inquiries.

1:11:20For example, my amazing, smart, handsome, funny, professional, underwater basket-weaving husband and I have been together for five wonderful, fulfilling, amazing, and exciting years. However, I think he's cheating on me, or he isn't communicating with me, or he's lying to me, etc. Or my eight-year-old child, who's neurodivergent at the top of their game and crushing it in life is being bullied by the mean HOA for breaking rules that I, as his parent, agreed to abide by. What does being neurodivergent have to do with this question? Is this a parent or a spouse humble bragging or trying to talk themselves into something that they don't believe in their heart?

1:12:00Wow, okay. This is really getting under their skin, eh? I mean, it's an interesting question, I suppose. That underwater basket we've comment is kind of funny, though. I will give them that. It's a nice touch. Personally, I love knowing what weird hobbies people's spouses are into, I suppose. But look, I see what they're getting at. I already have thoughts, obviously, but keep going. Here's another gripe. This one isn't as common on your show, thankfully, but it has still been sprinkled in here and there. The belief that social injustices should be at the forefront of every conversation and social situation.

1:12:31No, I'm not going to have these conversations when going to family gatherings, attending social meetups, or visiting my friend in the hospital after having a major surgery. Why are people expecting these things to take over our lives? I'm not sure who people are. I don't think everyone is doing this, but clearly these topics are a part of the conversation now more than ever, and people have different feelings about them, different interests in talking about this stuff, and that's fair. I am a little puzzled by your frustration that this happens on the show sometimes, though. I mean, if somebody brings up some social injustice in a letter, it's usually because it's somewhat relevant to their story, right?

1:13:04It doesn't mean they're trying to shoehorn a conversation about racism or whatever into a story about cheating. I think maybe I just keep jumping the gun. I'll let you finish. I'm a gay woman, and I dislike when I'm told I need to acknowledge these things better or that I'm, quote, doing my people a disservice by not putting them at the forefront of my life, especially by self-appointed allies. Does it ever stop? Dum vivimos vivamos. What say you? Signed, feeling the time is ripe to share a couple of gripes. Wow. Well, that's a fascinating reveal. I didn't necessarily see that coming. Yeah, you didn't see that coming, did you?

1:13:38I 100 % thought this was a white middle-aged dude until the end there. Why wouldn't I? I'm a white middle-aged dude. But I love that she waited until the very end to tell us that she's gay. Yeah. Well, I'm kind of riveted by this letter now. This just became about something much more interesting. Dom vivimos, vivamos. Obviously, that's one of those Latin phrases. Yeah. I had to look this up as well. So it means while we live, let us live. Got it. Okay. Carpe diem kind of thing. I don't know. Something like that. Make the most of life while you have it, I think. Enjoy the present moment. Very on brand with your recommendation of the week.

1:14:09I did not plan that, but yes, totally. I'm firmly in my doom vivimos vivamos era. And a merry vivamos to you as well. So, okay, this is a unique one. I'm not sure we've gotten a letter like this before. A little complainy, a little philosophy, a little pretentious Latin lesson. Lots going on here. So she doesn't like it when people throw in extraneous details. Interesting. Look, I guess I take your point when the details aren't truly relevant to the story. I'm sure that happens from time to time. I get it. I also think these details usually do matter, maybe in ways that are not immediately apparent.

1:14:38For example, in that cheating example you gave, if someone's like, my amazing husband is great in all these ways. Our marriage has been incredible, but I also think he might be cheating. I actually think that is super relevant because that complicates the picture. It gives us additional data. It helps us understand the bind that this person is in. If they didn't say any of that and they just said, hey, I think my husband's cheating. It's like, okay, we can try to help, but there's way less context. Also, it's way less interesting and then there's less connection, less relation stuff happening with us and the person.

1:15:06Yeah. Same thing with the other example, right? If somebody mentions that their child is neurodivergent and being treated poorly by the HOA for selling chocolate bars to the neighbors in the lobby or whatever, that is also relevant because A, a neurodivergent child will experience that differently, okay? Maybe their neurodivergence is informing the situation in some way. And B, a parent of a neurodivergent child might need to approach their child differently, help them work through the problem differently. But again, C, even if it's not totally relevant, I still kind of like knowing who this particular kid is.

1:15:37It's not just any eight-year-old. It's a super intelligent eight-year-old on the spectrum. That's the reality of that listener's situation. We love hearing about it, and I think we need to hear about it. Well, I mean, just look at our friend here's letter. We thought she was one kind of person. We thought her letter was one kind of letter. And then she tells us that she's gay. Yeah, good point. I mean, would she argue that that was an indulgent or extraneous detail? I mean, in a way, it is. We don't need to know that she's gay in order to answer her questions. but the fact that she's gay makes her questions so much more interesting and more complex.

1:16:07So yeah, now there's an interesting contradiction or a wrinkle there. It also potentially puts her on more solid ground when she says that she doesn't need self-appointed allies telling her how much to talk about issues related to her identity. Whereas if that were coming from someone else, it might mean something different. Yeah. If this came from a middle-aged white dude, like it's just a very different question depending on who poses it. I'm not sure I would have chosen in the letter, actually, if it were the case. I believe it. So are these details always self-indulgent or humble braggy or an attempt to talk yourself into something you don't believe in your heart?

1:16:37Clearly not. It's interesting. Her other argument, which she kind of slipped in there, is that these personal details are irrelevant in light of certain other facts. Like it doesn't matter if your child is brilliant or neurodivergent or whatever. If they live in a building where the HOA says you cannot sell stuff in the lobby, for her, it's end of story. Who cares what kind of child your kid is? Right. So my sense is that she's a very practical person, a very no-nonsense person. And hey, I can respect that. I admire that quality too sometimes. But my feeling is that practicality misses a lot of interesting territory.

1:17:07And it kind of flattens the nuance of the stories we take. Agreed. I'm not trying to like cut her down for this. I'm sure she has good reasons for being practical and logical. And there's absolutely a place for that. But if you look at the story of the autistic child selling stuff in the lobby and you go, sorry, you're autistic. Sorry, your side hustle is being shut down. But the rules are the rules. None of the other stuff matters. That shuts other things down. Then we don't get to explore what it's like for that kid, that parent. We don't get to talk about creative solutions to their problem.

1:17:33We don't get to empathize with a kid with a unique brain. None of that. Or we just get a letter that's way more generic. Yeah, which does tend to make our answers more generic. Yeah. So the more we talk about this, the more I feel that being neurodivergent kind of has everything to do with the question. It is the question. Her second question is even more interesting to me, actually. Yeah, honestly, I don't know if I have a good answer there. I can appreciate where she's coming from. I don't know if every Thanksgiving dinner or hospital visit needs to end up being about police violence or apartheid or whatever.

1:18:01Not because these aren't topics worthy of discussion. Of course they are, but there's a time and a place for everything. And sometimes this is my experience. Sometimes these philosophical or political discussions, which by the way, are rarely true debates or conversations, right? They're usually just people voicing their established opinions and kind of speaking past each other, which might be part of what she doesn't appreciate. But sometimes these discussions can actually eclipse the more important thing in that moment, which is we're having dinner together. We're visiting you in the hospital.

1:18:29We're getting to know each other, whatever it is. So I totally take her point there. I can also appreciate that questions of social justice, just to state the obvious, they're important. It's good that we're talking about them more. We're in touch with topics and feelings and problems now that we weren't before. And sometimes people want to bring those into their close relationships, which is how Thanksgiving dinner can end up being about police violence or LGBT rights or whatever. What I don't think is cool, and I think I'm on her side on this, is people lecturing you about what your relationship with this stuff should be, how vocal you should be about it, how much time you should spend thinking about it.

1:19:02Yeah, I mean, that's up to her. Of course. Truly. If a straight, self-appointed ally has given you shit for not posting about Pride Week on Instagram, coming from them especially, that's annoying, and it's presumptuous, and I get why it rubs you the wrong way. I hate to traffic in these broad stereotypes. I know not everyone is like this, but that is why people get annoyed with social justice warriors. This is the gay equivalent of a white person telling a black person that they're letting down black people by not talking or thinking about racism the way they are. It's like, eh, thanks for fighting the good fight.

1:19:32I'm glad you're passionate about this stuff. But who are you to tell me, the very person you say you're fighting for, that I'm doing social justice wrong, that I'm letting down my people? They're not even your people. Shut your face. It is pretty presumptuous. It is. And I'm getting a little sweaty talking about this because this is not a political show and I'm not even trying to make a political point here at all. For me, it's about empathy. This is about respect. It's about self-awareness. Yeah, I'm with you. And it's also about a person's right to decide what relationship they want to have with their own identity.

1:20:01I don't know if anyone else gets to tell them that. Agreed. So does the social justice talk ever stop? I mean, I don't know. Probably not, especially on the internet. I'm not sure I'd want to live in a world where we never talk about this stuff in a responsible, respectful way, but you can decide how and when you participate in it, who you hang out with, what you do with these feelings. It might also be interesting for you to share them with people. Like if you're in the hospital visiting a friend and someone starts talking about Israel and Palestine, maybe you say, hey, I love that we're all passionate about peace and human rights, guys, but we're here because Tanya had a surgery.

1:20:30Let's keep the focus on her today. Do that with a smile. It might help people reflect on the best time to talk about this stuff. But look, this practical no-nonsense quality of yours, I think it has upsides and downsides. So while you're making some very fair points, I would also encourage you to make room for feelings and mindsets that are different from yours, which is exactly what you want other people to do with you, including this tendency for people to include certain details about themselves in their letters. It might be interesting to consider why these personal details rub you the wrong way.

1:21:00What part of you is being stirred up by other people sharing them? I do wonder if your two gripes are maybe two sides of the same coin. And in the spirit of Feedback Friday, I'd love to invite you to bring more curiosity to these parts of yourself and other highfalutin sentiments. Maybe, it's just a thought, maybe the practical, logical part of her brain is in part a way to deal with the vulnerability and also the messiness of living with all of the facts about a person, you know, or at least a response to it, because that doesn't seem to sit very well with her. It's a way to short circuit the tension of living with multiple truths.

1:21:34Yeah, the HOA rules might be very clear and a neurodivergent child might be facing a really interesting dilemma. A marriage might be great and one spouse is struggling with difficult feelings. Anyway, you can't go wrong doing this because we can only empathize with other people to the extent that we relate to ourselves. Go back and check out Dr. Mike Isretel if you haven't done so yet. Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram, or you can connect with me on LinkedIn.

1:22:04You can find Gabe on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tata Sidlowskis, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer, so consult a professional before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we've rised by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.

1:22:37Here's a trailer featuring Tom Harden, once entangled in insider trading, who transformed into Tipper X, a pivotal informant instrumental in exposing major securities fraud cases for the FBI. So insider trading, trading stocks on information that's material. And if you have that information before the public, you can place your long trade or your short trade if they're going to miss or beat the estimates from Wall Street. So if you were to have this information before everybody else, then you can make profitable trades. And my rationalization was, seems like everybody's doing it. Who am I hurting?

1:23:11The boss was looking the other way. I'll do it just this once and never do it again. I placed the trade, and it was just a few keystrokes. Years later, people said, what were you thinking? It was all a very slow, slippery slope. Like, this is how I rationalized it. And I hear this guy behind me say, hey, are you Tom? Turn around. Yeah. And then there was two FBI agents. And he's like, look, man, we know about your four trades. And my first thought was, I know why they're here. and oh my God, my dad's going to kill me. Oh my God, my wife's going to divorce me. And then I thought, holy crap, this might impact my career.

1:23:47Oh my God, I might go into prison. So it went from dad to prison. I immediately started making implicating statements. So the sentencing guidelines is based on the money my firm made, just over a million. So I was looking at three years in prison. If you would have told me when I graduated from Penn, you know, a few years later, you're going to be insider trading. I would never do that because I'm a good guy. It was all self-inflicted. I did this all to my family, myself. You know, for the past seven years now, pretty much every week, I get in front of a group of people, a complete group of strangers, and tell them the worst thing I've ever done.

1:24:16Don't miss this compelling story of a transformation and redemption on episode 918.