1260: Vaping | Skeptical Sunday

26:02You know, they're paying people with millions of followers to just casually vape in their posts. They're not even commercials. They've tried to do this with me. Like, hey, do you vape? Would you vape on your show and then talk about the flow? And I'm like, no, not only that, like, no, I use my voice for a living. You think I want to be inhaling this toxic shite? No, sir. Or responsible for even one person getting hooked. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Oh, I really love banana berry, you know, dog fart vapes. They're so good. It's like it's not an ad. It's just there in your face. That's the thing is they try to be sneaky with it.

26:37It's not just like do this read for vapes. It's like use it so that people see you using it and then think it's cool, which, by the way, not sure how that works. Ask my kids, you know, do things daddy does. Is that cool? so anyway i probably shouldn't shite on myself that hard but like it's they're sneaky about it deliberately and i just hate it i can't stand it right and your kid's favorite tiktoker who's doing some you know innocent room tour yeah here's my studio guys oh there's my trusty vape in the corner there right yeah oh look there's a vape on the table how organic and at the same time the CDC estimates that youth vaping costs the U.S.

27:19health care system billions of dollars from related illnesses and ER visits. So we're spending money. We taxpayers are spending money to clean up the mess that companies are making billions of dollars in creating. That's a pretty perfect closed loop capitalist nightmare. Again, you know, I love capitalism. Biggest engine for upward mobility in human history. Sometimes there's externalities like this that just don't. Yuck. Plus the marketing, it looks like it's for a candy store. That's the other thing, right? It's bright colors, flavors with ridiculous names that I will continue to make fun of on this episode.

27:51It just doesn't scream, hey, this is for middle-aged smokers trying to quit. If I'm a 45-year-old dude and I'm trying to quit smoking, I might go for mint, but I'm not going for fricking Berry Blast unicorn farts. I'm just not doing that. Right. That probably exists. I don't think you're too far off. And that's intentional. You know, Juul pioneered the look, but disposable vapes took it to a whole nother level. Now you've got brands with flavors that sound like cocktails or crayon colors, and they're everywhere. Gas stations, smoke shops, 7-Elevens, and all over social media. I was just doing some research for another episode that's coming out in a few months, and it made me wonder if there's pumpkin spice latte vape.

28:36Certainly there is. That flavor is special for certain reasons, which I will disclose in that episode. The marketing team would be fools not to have that. Right. Yes. And the social media with the subliminal vaping promotions that just like it just makes me angry. It really does. Well, it's not always that subtle, though. You know, kids are posting vape trick videos all the time. They're blowing rings, tornadoes, jellyfish clouds. They're turning vaping into a performance art. And so social media glamorizes it as a skillful, trendy, shareable thing. It's some of the best free advertising for vape products.

29:13Addiction content on an addictive platform, which is, I mean, how meta is that? No pun intended. That makes me worry about my kids. Like, they're a long way off from teenage stuff, but it's going to happen in the blink of an eye. I'm very familiar with this. And it's like, maybe there's technical solutions so I can see what they're watching on their phones or maybe limit what they're doing online, which I hope they can't easily get around, which they probably can't. But then like what they put in their body, it's tougher. You know, like how am I going to know that they've got a vape disguised as a whatever or something they keep at school?

29:46I'm not dumb enough to think that I'm smart enough to catch my kids doing stuff when I pulled the wool over my parents' eyes on many harmless, relatively harmless things. Of course, we all go through it. Maybe they'll have, you know, robots that can vape or them or something. Oh, my God. But it kind of seems like parents. Sorry to you, but it sort of seems like you don't stand a chance. No, I agree. That's part of the reason I won't spread this crap to other people's kids. I just because why am I working against you? We need to be working together. Anyway, yeah. Parents don't stand a chance. This is easier to hide than cigarettes.

30:22Right. If you smoke a cigarette in the house anywhere, you will smell it a week later in every room. Right. But if you vape, you can kind of like blow that into your pillowcase and no one's going to notice the slight residue of strawberry shortcake in the corner of a little girl's room. Oh, gosh, that really just depressed me. Yeah. How do you even know if your kid is vaping? What do I look for? Vapes do have a smell. And so it's something I think we're becoming more familiar with. Even the so-called nicotine-free varieties. But besides the smell, vapes increase your thirst. So if you notice that change in your kid, you might raise an eyebrow.

31:04They make you irritable when you can't vape because it's so addictive. And you'd see random USB chargers everywhere. You know, several schools have removed bathroom stall doors or exterior doors to cut down on vaping between classes. That is dystopian. Like, what if you have to poop? Just looking out for the poopers. What are you going to do? How can we make the school bathroom even worse? Okay, I've read about students' stealth vaping because, again, the devices are so small. You can put it in your mouth and pretend like you're putting a gum in or, like, your pencil. You pull your shirt up over your face and you just vape during class while you pretend you're reading.

31:41And no one's going to see the smoke come out. And then it's like, something smells faintly of blueberry. Which one of you is it? And the answer is, like, half the class. I know. And our teachers have a lot of other things to worry about. They shouldn't even have to police this nonsense. Like, OK, your kid's on drugs. I'm not doing shit about it because I got to teach math to a bunch of kids that don't even want to be here. I wonder if they figured out the stealth trick when they're all wearing masks during the pandemic. Yeah. We gave them that opportunity. But exactly. There are now vape detectors commonly used, especially in schools and other public buildings.

32:17so they detect particulate matter in the air. So my advice here is if your habit sets off actual alarms, maybe think about quitting. Yeah, it must have taken parents and schools a while to catch on because parents and schools are not exactly, especially schools, public schools, they're not exactly like on all this stuff because they have so many other things they have to do with all the money they don't have. And so like to have vape alarms installed, I mean, I just that must have taken like forever. Right. Yeah. I mean, you would have to be in a affluent district probably. But yes, there was a 2023 study in a journal called Tobacco Control.

32:58And that found that media framed vaping in two extremes. So it was either presented as a miracle quit tool for adults or this really horrible youth epidemic. And that dual framing confused parents and policymakers. I mean, it still does. So one headline says vaping saves lives. And the next day it says bubblegum vape kills your child. So, of course, parents are confused. Where's the FDA in all this? Does the FDA even exist still? I don't even know. They are behind. That's for sure. The FDA has authorized only a handful of products in limited flavors like tobacco and menthol. but thousands of unauthorized disposables flood the market.

33:41If you walk into a store, most of those probably aren't supposed to be on the shelves. And many are manufactured overseas and sold illegally in the U.S. as tech products. And the FDA just can't keep up with the enforcement. Yeah, that's interesting. There's a smoke shop next to my barbershop. I never go in there, but I see like the sketchiest of characters going in and out of that place, basically. And it doesn't smell like tobacco and menthol. It smells like a bunch of crazy fruits all mixed together, you know, like chemical fruits all mixed together. So there's no way that they only have tobacco and menthol flavors in that place.

34:21Yeah. And I mean, the FDA is pretty much playing a game of regulatory whack-a-mole. So kids are buying products designed to look like highlighters or toys, you know, even school supplies that are sold as things called tanks or pods. You know, they're not labeled as a vape or an e-cigarette. Yeah. So the market innovating faster than regulators can act as a tale as old as time. But highlighter vapes. I mean, that is so offensively obvious that the hidden highlighter thing is so kids can bring it to school undetected. I know. Are kids running these companies? For real. You know, I mean, they literally look like school supplies and they're often manufactured in China, smuggled into the U.S.

35:01and sold without approval. And they often contain even higher nicotine levels than legal products. The following products and services are probably legal even in Singapore. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Shopify. Every January, I get this little spark. You know, the feeling you're suddenly convinced you're going to reorganize your whole life. You're going to start a new habit. Maybe even finally launch that business idea you've been sitting on for like, you know, longer than intended. And then if you're not careful, February rolls around. Nothing's changed except your gym attendance.

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38:50Now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. The telltale sign is when the class loser slacker whatever has like three different highlighters and you're like, wow, Timmy's taking algebra pretty seriously. Yeah, wow, look at that. So your pencil case is now a nicotine cartel. Terrific. I mean, that's gross. I mean, that's the reality. reports estimate illegal vaping products make up a huge chunk of the U.S. market. Is anybody even going after these illegal sales somehow? I mean, how do you even do that? There's probably a ton. Yeah, I mean, there have been lawsuits against e-cigarette companies, primarily Juul, for illegal sales, marketing to underage users, and misleading consumers about health risks.

39:36So significant settlements have happened, including one by Juul for over a billion dollars to many states to fund prevention programs and address the youth vaping crisis. Is it the same in other countries? You mentioned Singapore, who's, you know, they're notoriously strict that you can't make a gum there or whatever. But how else is it being handled elsewhere? So the UK regulates some nicotine vapes as medical quit tools, but they banned youth-focused marketing and flavors. Similar in New Zealand. Canada implemented a maximum nicotine concentration. Australia requires prescriptions for nicotine vapes.

40:14Wow. And China only allows tobacco-flavored products domestically. So wait, China manufactures flavored vapes for the world market, but does not sell them domestically. That says it all. China! Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's right. In 2022, China banned the sale of flavored vapes, but still exports them internationally, mainly to the U.S. So China took one look at what they were making. They were like, oh, hell no, not our kids. And then they shipped them all to America. That's just incredible. We're literally importing products that other countries have deemed too dangerous for their own populations.

40:51Right. Crazy. And what's more incredible is that countries that have implemented strict regulations do see positive results. Vaping rates in Europe, where they crack down on youth marketing, are significantly lower than in the U.S. Australia's prescription model keeps vaping numbers very low. It's under 2 % of their teens that vape. And when New Zealand banned most flavored vapes, their youth vaping rates dropped over 25 percent in two years. So the playbook works. Plain packaging, flavor restrictions, age verification, marketing bans. Now, when you actually enforce these measures, fewer people will vape.

41:35It's not rocket science. It's just regulation. That's a big contrast between vaping laws here and in other countries. Wow. So other countries saw the problem, came up with a solution. And here in the States, we're like, freedom, free market. The U.S. is one of the most chaotic markets. This is crazy. And America has huge loopholes. We have weak enforcement and constant new products that know how to skirt any new regulation. OK, but if the FDA hasn't authorized them, how are they still everywhere? Enforcement? Yeah, well, it's an enforcement gap. You know, the FDA doesn't have the resources to keep up.

42:10and companies launch new flavors and designs faster than regulators can respond. So the FDA is jogging behind all out of breath. Maybe they should quit vaping. Pretty much sums up the marketing machine in a nutshell, though. Yeah. And meanwhile, the numbers tell their own story. In 2023, about six and a half percent of U.S. adults vaped. Among 21 to 24-year-olds, it was over 15 percent. And among high schoolers, use seemed to decline in 2024 to about 6 percent. But that's still more than 800 ,000 children vaping. 800 ,000 kids. That's like every marching band in America hitting a vape cloud at halftime.

42:56And one in four American high school boys reported trying it at least once. So the cigarette alternative just became another category of nicotine delivery entirely. Yes. And vaping those aerosols, like I said, it irritates and inflames your lungs and blood vessels. It raises your heart rate, your blood pressure. And it's just delivering a very high addictive dose of nicotine. All this sets the stage for asthma, COPD, heart attack and stroke. You're starting to sound like the warning voice on pharmaceutical ads. You know, may cause headaches, nausea, uncontrollable diarrhea, sudden death. That's another thing America does is we advertise pharmaceuticals.

43:38Most countries don't do that. I think the only other country that does is New Zealand and they have a ton of restrictions. Right. Yeah, it's bizarre. We are a strange place. But it's true. I mean, am I the only one who remembers when the Marlboro man died of lung cancer? And it's not just cancer. When nicotine raises heart rate and blood pressure, it makes many cardiovascular problems worse. So the so-called safer alternative is just it's an unregulated health crisis. Right. And it's not just the nicotine. Illegal disposables have been found containing acrolein, which is a chemical that damages the lungs.

44:16and then there's other heavy metals that harm the cardiovascular system. And we don't even fully know the long-term risks yet. You know, cigarettes took decades before we had the hard cancer data. With vaping, we're less than 20 years in, but already seeing concerning signs. Harmful consequences really shouldn't surprise anyone here, but what are we seeing actually, specifically? So animal studies show common vape ingredients increase lung tumors and case reports have linked those tasty vape juices to aggressive stomach cancers as well as lung cancer and severe lung injuries. And because nicotine suppresses the immune system, it may make it harder for your body to fight off cancer cells of any kind.

45:05So vaping is like cancer's hype, man. Yeah. Great. But at every party I hear, it's like, hey, man, it's better than smoking. No, it isn't, apparently. Well, maybe. I don't know. I mean, I guess technically you might be able to say that, but that would be a really weird hill to die on. Sure, cigarettes contain more carcinogens because of combustion and vaping has fewer of those, but it doesn't mean vaping is harmless. It's just a different kind of harm. You're just swapping out combustion for chemicals. So there's still health risks. You've just been fooled by marketing. And vape pens are machines.

45:40Don't these things blow up or is that just kind of like Florida headline stuff? It happens. In 2017, there was a famous story about a man in Idaho. He had his vape pen explode in his mouth. Dang. He lost seven teeth. He suffered burns to his face. And that's not an isolated incident. So others have had pockets catch on fire from battery explosions. There are definitely different concerns than a cigarette. Pocket pipe bombs. Man, have vapes ever killed anyone directly from something like this? They have. There was a really big scare in 2019 with what was called the EVALI outbreak. EVALI stands for e-cigarette or vaping-associated lung injury.

46:25Yeah, it's a mouthful. Yeah, or a lungful. Yeah, I should have thought of that. The CDC traces most cases of EVALI to elicit THC cartridges that are cut with vitamin E acetate. It caused severe and sometimes fatal lung damage. Dozens of people died. Thousands were hospitalized. I do remember that. It was like, why are all these people dying? And they get vapes. And then it was like, oh, my God. And it was like, oh, they have vapes. It looks like they made or something or someone made. It was a chemistry experiment and they mixed the wrong things together. So it wasn't every vape, just specific weed ones.

47:01It seems to be. Yeah. But it revealed how dangerous this unregulated market is. So some of those cartridges also had heavy metals, even synthetic cannabinoids, which we've discussed how problematic they can be when we did the CBD episode, and pesticides. Pesticides in my vape? I know. Wow. Yeah. Some manufacturing processes introduce harmful pesticides into the vape liquid. But this doesn't happen with nicotine vapes? No, it does. These toxins are in both weed and nicotine vapes, yes. So the nicotine vapes can explode too? Oh yeah, they definitely can. Most commonly from faulty batteries or overcharging though.

47:45It wasn't because of the chemical mixture. So typically not when using them, usually when they're plugged in and charging. So there definitely are freak accidents. It's like Wile E. Coyote designed these things. It's crazy. Acme vapes. Yeah. The difference between nicotine and weed vapes isn't the technology, but cannabis vapes come with their own additional risks. I know people who say like, oh, I don't do nicotine. I just vape weed and that's better. They're mistaken. It's not their fault, but they're wrong. So first, the THC concentrations are much higher than traditional pot smoking, and that increases the risk of anxiety, paranoia, even psychosis, especially in young people whose brains are still developing.

48:29So instead of being mellow, you get candy-coated paranoia. Fun! That's probably in vape flavor. Yeah, pretty much. Physically, cannabis vapes cause wheezing and respiratory problems more than the nicotine ones. And a University of Michigan study found adolescent cannabis vapors reported more lung issues than tobacco smokers or nicotine vapors. So weed vapes are actually worse for the lungs than cigarettes. That's not a good marketing pitch. Right, but that's the risk. And better alternatives for cannabis are edibles, tinctures, or in my very unpopular opinion, not using at all. There's this social perception that weed is safer to vape or smoke because it's natural, and that's just not the case.

49:16This does not make nicotine better to vape. Nicotine alone can impair adolescent brain development until around age 25. It changes how neural circuits form, which affects memory, attention, and increases addiction risk. That's why, especially for young people, there's just no amount of nicotine that's safe. And you said products marketed as nicotine-free often contain nicotine. But can we feel better about vaping the ones that are truly nicotine-free or no? No. A study this year exposed pregnant mice to vape liquids with zero nicotine and just the base chemicals of propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin.

50:00Their offspring were born smaller with narrower skulls and bone changes. Wait, vaping reshaped the skulls of baby mice? That's gross. Is that insane? Yeah. And it shows these so-called harmless carriers are not harmless. And if you're pregnant, vaping of any kind, it's just a hard no. Yeah, this is such a long way from, hey, man, it's just water vapor to might literally change the skull of your baby. God, no. The baby's head shape. And yet people are still using these things literally by the millions. Man, my lungs are inflamed just listening to this. But let's give people something hopeful. If somebody listening right now has a vape in their pocket that hasn't exploded yet or in their mouth, how do you actually quit this stuff?

50:48Well, I mean, first, you need a plan. These are highly addictive machines with highly addictive substances. Truth Initiative has campaigns specifically designed around this. Truth Initiative, that's the organization that makes all the anti-smoking ads with the dead bodies and stuff, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some people might remember the ad campaign where they unloaded more than a thousand body bags on the steps of Philip Morris headquarters. That was sort of what put them on the map. But they have put out lots of anti-smoking campaigns with the goal of ending smoking. They're more than an ad company.

51:25They have targeted programs to help people quit. So for adults, nicotine replacement therapy is recommended, like patches, gum, lozenges, or prescription medications. So pair that with behavioral support, like quit lines or counseling for a combination that actually works long term. It's really hard to quit. But let's be real. Come on. Teenagers are not slapping on nicotine patches or scheduling Zoom calls with quit coaches. What about them? It's got to you got to have a cool way to quit that replaces the habit somehow. I mean, that's where programs like Truths Vaping Know the Truth come in. It's a free digital curriculum that helps teens understand the risks of vaping.

52:09And teens who enroll are 35 percent more likely to quit using nicotine. They also have something called the X program, which is designed by Truth Initiative with the Mayo Clinic. So anyone can text DITCHIT, D-I-T-C-H-I-T, to 88709 and get personalized coaching and community support. Over 750 ,000 young people have used it, and clinical trials show it boosted quit rates by 40%. So give them something to text, and it's more successful. Wow, that sounds like da-chit.

52:51Anyway, that's... You're not supposed to laugh at your own jokes, Jordan. I approve, I approve. It's not just about shaming kids, it's about helping them... God, that was so dumb even for me. It's about helping them out of the trap, giving them actual tools. And so that's actually awesome. I'm glad that that's working. Something has to work. Yeah, we need to approach it differently than just being mad at these kids for succumbing to these billion dollar companies, right? Punishment doesn't work. Demonizing kids does nothing. You suspending a teen for vaping, it's just not addressing the issue.

53:26So education, resources and compassion are more successful to keep kids off nicotine. You have to meet them where they are and make quitting possible. So Truth's text program, This Is Quitting, it's reached over 500 ,000 teens. And we'll link to the Truth programs and their great ads in the show notes. I like that because the industry has billions of dollars and armies of marketers. you can't just yell at kids and expect them to beat an addiction to blue razz icy bong hit armpit vape or whatever with sheer willpower it's not going to happen you're giving them ideas stop giving them a whole new lineup of new flavors and teens get addicted to vapes faster than adults due to their still developing brains which are more sensitive to nicotine's reward effects and have a less developed prefrontal cortex that controls impulses.

54:22And do you think those nicotine replacement tools work for adults? There is a high success rate. So they release nicotine more slowly and at lower doses. The big thing is they don't reinforce the addictive inhaling behavior. And they're meant to taper off. So unlike vapes, they're designed to end addiction, not maintain it. Yeah, patches are so boring, though. Not quite the cool image is smoking or vaping at the party. So the bottom line is nicotine replacement therapy is for adults trying to quit. And for kids, prevention and support are the better routes. Right, right. The verdict is that vaping is not safe for anyone.

55:02So for adults, it may have a role in quitting cigarettes, if that's the intention. But only with a plan to quit vaping, too, which that's hard, right? And for kids, it's just a hard no. So don't let a USB stick run your dopamine schedule. And this isn't just about individual willpower. These devices are, come on, they're engineered by billion dollar corporations to be as addictive as possible. It's not some kind of personal failing, right? This is corporate design. They're using your psychology against you and they have all the resources in the world to do that. Right. And they're just so good at it.

55:36Yeah. That's why regulation, policy and public health campaigns matter so much. People can't fight billion-dollar marketing machines on willpower alone. Vaping's not harmless. Don't be the guinea pig in Big Tobacco's newest science experiment. Yeah, what gets me the most, man, is we've been here before. We did this dance with cigarettes for 50 freaking years. The lies, the targeted marketing to kids, the bought-off scientists, the lawsuits, the slow ride to the truth, with them fighting us at every turn, we paid for that with millions of lives. and somehow we're just letting it happen again with kids, just with a different delivery system and better branding.

56:17Yeah, I know. I mean, talk about living, growing up in a crazy house. I had a poster of Joe Camel in my room. Wow, that's freaking crazy. But, you know, maybe it's the optimist in me, but we know what works. We see it in other countries like China and New Zealand. There's strong regulation, there's flavor bans, age verification, marketing restrictions. So educational campaigns that don't condescend to young people, but actually give them the tools they need. So these programs like Truth Initiative aren't just making scary ads. They're giving people real support and real resources, and it's working.

56:59Those 40 % higher quit rates, that's real. That's lives saved. Futures not derailed by addiction and medical bills. These tobacco and vape corporations are predators, and we are all their prey. If you're a parent like me, the best thing we can do is talk to our kids, really talk to them. Make sure they know these companies are out to make them a customer for life. Let them know the temptation has affected all of us. We're here to help them fight the pressure to vape. So no judgment toward my vaping listeners, but you can quit, folks. There are people who want to help you. And if you need help quitting, check out the X program, Truth Initiative, and all the resources we've mentioned here on the show.

57:35Text DITCHIT to 88709. Don't let a flavored machine write your obituary. And for the love of God, keep that watermelon berry mint cloud out of my face. Thanks everyone for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday can come directly to me, Jordan at jordanharbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show, searchable and clickable on the website at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Jessica on her sub stacks. That's plural. One is called Between the Lines and the other one is Where Shadows Linger.

58:12And we'll link to that in the show notes as well. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace, Sanderson, Tata Sidlowskis, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Gabriel Mizrahi in there somewhere. Our advice and opinions are our own. And yeah, I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Also, we, of course, we try to get these episodes. We try to get them as right as we can. Not everything is gospel, even if it's fact-checked. So consult a professional before applying anything you hear on the show, especially if it's about your health and well-being. Remember, we rise by lifting others.

58:42Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge that we doled out today. Maybe you know somebody who vapes. They would love this one, or maybe they wouldn't, but you can share it with them anyway. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. Behind the spectacle of pro sports lies a multi-billion dollar shadow economy built on exploitation and corruption. In this preview, Chris Dalby unpacks how global crime syndicates have infiltrated the games we love.

59:13Everybody who's a hardcore sports fan has engaged with how organized crime is moving into sports in really worrying ways and have been for a long time. multiple sponsors of top European soccer teams, including champions of the Premier League in England, so some of the most wealthiest sports properties in the world, have had shirt sponsors that are linked to organized crime. Illegal betting is worth 1.7 trillion US dollars a year. Sports is one of the main vectors for human trafficking. There are tens of thousands of kids, not okay, all over Europe, increasingly in the Middle East, increasingly in Asia, and in the US.

59:49They're either in soccer prison camps, depending on how organized it is. And these kids are from Kazakhstan, Costa Rica, Congo. In the US, it's soccer increasingly, but it's basketball. Kids from Africa being promised NBA trials. It's baseball, Dominican Republic, Venezuelan kids being promised careers in the MLB. And they're being milled. And no one pays attention to it because sport has this magic reputation. But at the heart of it, why I do what I do, why we have the sports and crime briefing, we've also created the first fact-checking platform for sports called Free to Play. I just like kids who want to play football to not be trafficked, please, or to not be scammed and bankrupt their family.

1:00:24And no one's looking out for them. And that's what scares me. When the footballing authorities, when the sports authorities say, we're about the kids, we're about helping everybody, you've proven that you're not. So please up your game. This is genuinely one of the most innovative criminal threats you've seen in years. Catch the full episode on how organized crime quietly runs the business of modern sports on episode 1204 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. Thank you.