1267: Rhonda Patrick | Protecting Your Brain and Body from Modern Life

21:53I was like, the study needs to be done in humans where you like measure their microplastics and then get them on a high fiber diet and then measure it again. But essentially, if you eat the fiber with the microplastic ingestion, that's great. But even like any time around it, right? Because it takes a while for you to digest. So if you're eating it even within like a couple of hours of taking in your spin drift, which is lined with plastic lining, people don't realize that. They think aluminum cans are safer because they're not plastic. They don't realize that those cans are lined with plastic to prevent the soda water or whatever from corroding the aluminum.

22:27So at this point, we don't have any technology yet. Let's wait for the nanobots. that are going to come in and like filter out the microplastics. But we don't have those right now. And so once it is absorbed into your circulation, it does get transported to organs. And there have been a couple of disturbing studies. One study was published. This was out of Brazil. And it looked at microplastic levels in different organs and found that, interestingly, the brain seemed to accumulate microplastics almost like 10 times more than other organs. That's scary. It's scary. But also it was shocking to me because we have something called the blood brain barrier.

23:02Right. That. Theoretically. Right. Protects our brain. Right. It's supposed to not let stuff into the brain. And so I thought about this for a while and it's not really known why the brain is accumulating so much more microplastics than, say, like other organs like the kidneys you'd think or something would accumulate more. But the brain is the one that had the most. I told you earlier about the breathing in the air. And that's another source of microplastics. So air pollution, these rubber tires are made with plastic fibers and all that stuff. So, yeah, there's plastic particles, dryers going in.

23:36There's tons of microplastics in our clothing. And so we're breathing in microplastics, especially like if you live in an urban area. Well, if you breathe something in, it can actually bypass the blood-brain barrier and get into the brain. And so I think possibly what's happening is you're getting a twofold hit. You're getting what's going in through your circulation with the nanoplastics because nanoplastics are small enough to get through the blood-brain barrier. And then you're breathing in these particles, and that's also getting in. And so therefore, they're getting into the brain. And you might go, well, what are they doing in the brain?

24:07And again, that's where animal evidence is a little bit more enlightening. But just looking at the human data, we do know that higher levels of microplastics in the brain were correlated with Alzheimer's disease. So people that had Alzheimer's disease had up to 10 times more microplastics in their brains than people that did not have Alzheimer's disease. Before we find out how many microplastics I've personally inhaled today, let's talk about something else that gets inside you consensually. We'll be right back. I'd like to take a quick break and tell you about Noom, sponsor of this episode. One thing we've been talking about a lot with Rhonda is how small, invisible things add up over time.

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25:56Start your microdose GLP-1 program journey today at Noom.com. That's N-O-O-M.com. Noom, microchanges, big results. If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, scientists, creators every week, it is because of my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust. I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself for free, especially important in today's economy. I'm hearing from you in my inbox here. The course is free. There's no shenanigans. I don't bill you. I don't need your credit card information. I don't sell your data. It's over at sixminutenetworking.com.

26:26It is literally just a gift to you. I think a great way to start the new year is systemizing your relationships, making sure you maintain them. Six minutes a day is all it takes. This is not a heavy lift. The course is bingeable. It's not one of those like, come back tomorrow. You can do it all at once. I don't care. And many of the guests on the show subscribe and contribute to the course. Come on and join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. You can find the course, again, all free at sixminutenetworking.com. Now back to Dr. Rhonda Patrick. I don't know if you know the answer to this, but when you say blood brain barrier, I've heard of this a million times, but I just realized I don't know what it is.

26:59What is it made out of? Is it actually a barrier or is it just the system of circulation doesn't quite go there? What is it? Yeah, it's actually a barrier. There's like endothelial cells that are held together by these proteins, like they're called tight junctions. And it's essentially like protecting the brain. It is permeable. So it does allow things. There's active transport as well. But it is a real barrier. Is it in my neck or brainstem spine? Like, where is it? Where is this located? It's in the brain. It's surrounding the brain. Oh, I see. It's a little force field around the brain. Interesting.

27:36You got it. When it comes to like the things that actually get in there, These microplastics have been shown to cause inflammation. And those studies have been done in animals. Of course, it's this foreign molecule. It's this foreign body. Your immune system and the brain has immune cells as well. They're called microglial cells. And when they see something foreign, they get activated and they sort of fire off all these weapons called cytokines, inflammatory cytokines that are trying to destroy it. But it turns out it is a foreign molecule, but it's not an infection or anything like that. And so you end up getting this vicious cycle of low-grade inflammation in the brain, which is known to cause dementia and Alzheimer's disease.

28:13That is well established. Yikes. I think there's enough evidence here to be concerned about the fact that microplastics are accumulating in the brain. They're associated with Alzheimer's disease, dementia, and we know that they're causing neuroinflammation. Yikes. And so that's enough to say, well, maybe I should take this a little more seriously and try to eliminate these microplastics as much as I can. And the number one thing you can do is get a water filter for sure. That's the best. I didn't realize water was it totally makes sense now that you say it, that most of us are drinking a ton of water.

28:42And if there's a ton of microplastics in there more so than is on my salad or whatever, then there it is. I mean, it's just it's quite depressing to think about how we're just totally surrounded by all this. So you mentioned earlier, you said once it's in the circulatory system, that's the point of no return. So is there nothing we can do to enhance our body's ability to eliminate microplastics? Not that I know. There's a couple of problems with the microplastics. One is they are creating inflammation. I mentioned in the brain. They also do this in the heart. We can talk about that study as well.

29:14But the microplastics also have chemicals associated with them. fysphenol A being one, BPA, BPS, which replaced BPA in some products, but now we know is doing the same thing as BPA, if not worse. And so these chemicals are disrupting hormones. They're endocrine disruptors and they're in the microplastics. And so you're having like this little constant leech of these chemicals, these plastic associated chemicals in your body, right? And that's not good either. These endocrine disruptors are also associated with negative health outcomes like cancer, neurodevelopmental disease, important for early development, pregnancy, that's a big time that you want to avoid those types of chemicals.

29:55But also just hormone dysfunction. There's a lot of problems that are associated with this endocrine disruptors. And there are ways to excrete those plastic associated chemicals. And so I find that at least a little bit. I see. So you can get rid of like the secondary, some of the secondary issues caused by it, but the credit card that's in your liver is there to stay. Yeah, the credit card. By the way, that was kind of debunked. Yeah, it was. It was. I've said before on the show that what was it there? Like you're eating a credit card worth of plastic every single day or every single month and it's just like not really.

30:27Every week. Every week. And it was a pretty valid scientific paper that published this, but it turns out other researchers went back and found that the way they did this calculation, like the gram weight of it was equivalent to a credit card. Essentially, they were measuring microplastic particles that were from the ocean. The particles that we're taking in aren't necessarily as big as the ones that are in the ocean. There's a lot of microplastics in the ocean. And so the sizes were bigger. And so it's not quite the same. We're still taking in a lot of particles every week. The other thing that you mentioned before that size matters, but this might be the inverse kind of of that, which is I'm going to go ahead and guess that if I chewed up a credit card, my body would go, you ate a credit card and it would come out the other end.

31:10If I eat a credit card zapped into a bajillion different little molecules of plastic, I'm just going to absorb all that. Right. So it's actually maybe better. Yeah. I wish I were only eating a credit card worth and it came in my salad and I just had to deal with it that way. But instead, I'm breathing it in and it's pretending to be something else in my body, essentially. It's tricking my body into absorbing it. So like bigger chunks of plastic, it's probably, well, you tell me, that's almost safer to less harmful. It is. And it's interesting that you brought this up, Jordan, because there was a study that was disturbing that was published a few months back.

31:42I think it was like in the summer. There was a study out of France that compared microplastics in water from a plastic bottle versus glass bottle versus can, aluminum can. Right. And you would think if I were to ask you, which of those three types of containment do you think had the lowest amount of microplastics? It depends where the water itself is from. right? Is it pure water that's going into each of these things? Yeah. I mean, assuming the water's constant. Okay. Would you think more plastic is coming from a glass bottle, a plastic bottle, or an aluminum can lined with plastic? I just assume that the plastic bottle is leaching into the water and there's more of it.

32:19Yeah. Exactly. You would. However, what they found was that the glass bottle had the highest number, particle number of microplastics. And everyone was all in a tizzy. Like, when I'm out, I get water from a glass bottle versus plastic. And it was like, well, how is this possible? It turns out the lid that they're putting on the plastic bottle has like paint and stuff on it. And the paint is made of plastic. You know, there's plastic polymers that make up paint. When they're in these facilities and they're putting the caps on the bottles, some of that's kind of like coming off, you know, friction, right?

32:53On the glass bottles. Yes. Oh, my gosh. Okay. But here's the good news. the size, while the plastic particle number was greater, so was the size. So they were actually much larger because it was essentially little flakes of the paint coming off. It wasn't dissolved. And the larger the size, it's not absorbed as well. And so I think, and there's now, there's going to be studies that have to show this. I think that even though the glass had more plastics, I still go for the glass because the size was bigger. The plastic size in the plastic bottles was much smaller. And that's the stuff that gets absorbed in the gut.

33:28So it's just endless. You were asking like what you can do to get rid of them once they're in circulation. And I said, really, there's nothing right now, honestly. But we do have ways of excreting these chemicals. Most people think of sweat as the main way and sweat does excrete a little bit of these chemicals. But the main way BPA and these plastic chemicals are excreted is actually through urine. And so you essentially want to do something that's going to speed up that process of excreting it through your urine. And that's where this compound comes in that's from cruciferous vegetables like broccoli and particularly broccoli sprouts called sulforaphane.

34:09Sulforaphane, it's about 100 times more present in broccoli sprouts than broccoli. And I say it's present, but actually it's the plant has to be crushed or like you bite the plant. before the sulforaphane actually is activated. It's stored as a precursor and then it forms sulforaphane. So I'm just trying to be accurate here. But essentially that compound activates our body's detoxification pathways. So our bodies have these pathways that excrete harmful compounds because we've been exposed to them throughout our evolution, right? Not necessarily the same types of toxic things, but there's toxic things from plants and everything, right?

34:46So it activates the detoxification pathway called NRF2, and that has been shown to, for example, benzene. Benzene is a carcinogen that we breathe in through air pollution. Smokers take it in. It's in cigarette smoke. Wildfire smoke has it as well. But there's been a couple of studies in China where benzene is extremely high because air pollution is high. And individuals taking in this sulforaphane compound from broccoli sprout extract excrete about 60 % more benzene within 24 hours of taking the sulforaphane extract. So sulforaphane activates these detoxification pathways. Well, benzene, the enzymes that basically cause the excretion of benzene, also cause the excretion of BPA and some of these plastic chemicals.

35:31And so I think even though it hasn't been directly shown that sulforaphane is also something that's going to be excreting BPA, There's animal evidence to back that up, but it hasn't been shown in humans yet. I do think that sulforaphane is another tool for people that they can use. There's great supplements out there. I use one called Avmacol. I don't have any affiliation with them other than I really like their product. No, we'll link to it in the show notes. They've got 12 publications backing up their formulation, showing that it's doing X amount of things like improving brain function on autistic children.

36:03It's just doing a lot of things because detoxification is very important for brain health, not only for, you know, the brain, but other organs as well. So I think sulforaphane is another great way to at least try to detox yourself from some of these plastic chemicals as well. Is the number one practical step that we should take to limit exposure, is that just get a water filter because that's this huge vector of ingestion? Because I can't really filter out what I breathe, right? You can if you're working from home and you can filter it out when you're in your home. So you can get a HEPA filter.

36:34You can get these like Honeywell HEPA filters and have them in every room. They're pretty small and they work. Air filters in your house, water filters in your house. Those are the two top things that you can do. And then from there, try to avoid drinking out of plastic bottles as much as you can. Try to avoid heating plastic. So these to-go coffee mugs, like if you go to Starbucks or whatever your favorite to-go coffee place is, those paper cups are also lined with plastic because again, Right. They don't want the hot water, you know, just breaking down the paper cup. So we know that heat causes microplastic breakdown and plastic chemical breakdown by like 50 fold.

37:11So you're really taking in a lot more microplastics if you're drinking hot tea or hot coffee out of a to go coffee mug. Bring your own mug in. Bring your own mug in if you want or drink it there with their mugs. That's not the paper mug. That's the other thing that's a real big, I would say, contributor to our microplastic exposure. The other thing would be obviously like we talked about trying to avoid the plastic water bottles, but other things too, tea bags. So tea bags have microplastics in them, all tea bags. There was a study that came out comparing all the different types. It's hundreds to thousands of them per milliliter drop.

37:46It's crazy. So loose leaf tea is the way to go on that because if you do drink a lot of tea, there's a lot of benefits to tea. And that is like the silver lining as well, because obviously there's so many studies out there on the benefits, health benefits of tea, reduced dementia risk, reduced cancer risk, all sorts of benefits. And it's not like everyone's drinking loose leaf tea, right? So at least we know that whatever polyphenol benefits you're getting from the tea, maybe they're negating some of the microplastic negative effects as well. If you can avoid tea bags as much as possible. Now, anytime I'm out, I used to drink tea and it's like, I can't do it if it's not loose leaf, because all I can think about is I'm drinking plastic tea, you know?

38:26Yeah. Now I'm like, can I go to Phil's Coffee or Starbucks and be like, can you put this in my mug? And they'll go, sure. I just need to pour it in this paper cup lined with plastic first, and then you can pour it in your mug. And it's like, doesn't that defeat the entire purpose? Yeah. No, you need to ask them to pour it into your mug. And if not, you just have to drink. A lot of these places have mugs, right? They have ceramic mugs. I mean, unless you're getting it to go. If you're getting it to go, make it in the ceramic mug and then you can pour it into yours. Like, I don't know. Yeah, they'll have to figure it out.

38:53I mean, this is California, for God's sake. I can't be the most high maintenance person here. This is the Bay Area. There's a lot of kooks. The only coffee shop that I know of that does not line their paper cups with plastic is blue bottle coffee. They use polylactic acid from sugar cane. And I really think that everyone to switch to that. I guess there's not enough people putting pressure on these companies to do that yet. But hopefully, like with more awareness of it, people will put pressure and the companies will switch. How long, though, did it take to ban? What was it? BPA? I remember, again, I don't know how old you are and I won't ask, but when I was little, I played.

39:30BPA is not banned. It's not? No. Oh, my God. No. You're talking about red number five, red number five. So when I was little, I used to play soccer and they would give us these water bottles. And I remember going, mom, this tastes really gross because it tasted like a solvent. And everyone was just like, whatever. And we would drink it. And I was like, I don't like that. I'm not going to drink that water. So I remember I had to get a different water bottle and we had these cups in my house and I hated them and they were this weird plastic and I wouldn't drink out of them because they tasted weird.

39:57And then later on, it was like, oh yeah, this plastic leaches into the water. And I thought it was BPA, but maybe not. And now they switched to BPA free and different kinds of water bottles that don't do that. And it was just really, really obvious that these soft, squishy water bottles were made out of a plastic that leached. Because I remember once I put hot water in one and the thing completely deformed. And I was like, it just melted basically. And I was like, so you're drinking that. And it tasted like some kind of rubbing alcohol mixed into the water every time you drank from it. And I just was like, there's no way this is good for you.

40:30I remember thinking that at like eight years old. I was like, there's no way that this is supposed to be like this. Well, you're right on the fact that BPA, that it does leach into your water bottle. And there was a marketing push that said, this is BPA free. And people thought that that was safer because it was like BPA free. And it's still, you'll see it everywhere. But the problem is, is that they replaced BPA with something called BPS. So BPA wasn't banned. It was just a lot of companies decided, oh yeah, now we know BPA is bad. It's disrupting hormones. It leaches into the liquid or whatever content, food, whatever's in there.

41:03And so they switched to BPS. And it's like, now they market as BPA. free and everyone thinks that means it's safe, except for the fact that now it's been enough years over a decade, a couple of decades now at least, that you've seen this BPA free stuff. And now we have science on BPS. Guess what? It's doing the same thing as BPA. How about no more BP? The BP is clearly the problem here, Rhonda. The plastic is the problem. What does the BP stand for? Do we know? Do you know? Bisphenol. Okay. And that's just plastic, that type of plastic? It makes the plastic more durable, like you said. It makes it more durable.

41:39It's funny because I was talking about this gum thing, and I had no idea there was plastic in gum. Did you know that gum was made out of plastic? I didn't. I mean, now that you say it, it makes perfect sense. But I also didn't know that there was plastic on salad. So here we are, right? Well, gum base is made from plastic polymers, but it didn't start that way. It was around World War II where the gum base shifted from this plant tree sappy kind of stuff that they used to use in gum. So the gum used to be plastic free. And then World War II, that's when the gum base shifted to these plastic polymers.

42:17And so now essentially all gum, unless it's marketed as plastic free and you look at it and it's made from this tree sappy stuff. I forget what that stuff is called. And if you look on Amazon, it's very expensive to get gum. And it's terrible. And it's disgusting. It dissolves. You chew it and then it's mush. Yeah. You're chewing and swallowing a bunch of plastic when you're chewing gum. And so you really do want to get the plastic-free gum. I did find a brand that was from the Netherlands that was really good that I like, but it's hard to get. Yeah, yeah. So you have to stick with the Simply Gum, which is what you get on Amazon, and at least it's plastic-free.

42:51What's the brand in the Netherlands? Because I have Dutch show fans, and if they want to do me a salad, they can mail me a bunch of this. It's called True Gum. Okay. Yeah. And you want to get the xylitol form because xylitol actually cleans your teeth and like kills off bacteria that cause cavities. So I've reversed so many cavities and had friends that have reversed them chewing xylitol gum. So I was chewing gum like all the time. And then I like found out it was plastic gum. And of course, I was just I was so upset just thinking about all the plastic that I ingested. And after that, now I've switched to the Simply Gum and also the True Gum.

43:25True Gum is my favorite. It doesn't disintegrate as quickly. Oh my gosh. Dutch show fans, don't forget your boy on Christmas. I'm on the market for some gum. I do chew gum every day and I love it. It's kind of like, I don't know, I chew it when I'm like hungry or when I'm outside. I don't know. I just like it. Something about it. And yeah, now I'm swallowing a bunch of plastic. That's super disappointing. You mentioned before about brain aging, brain issues. And I know you'd mentioned before we talked here on the show that multivitamins can maybe help slow brain aging. And I was shocked to hear that because honestly, what I thought, multivitamins, I've been told that you pee the whole thing out, it's placebo, it's expensive urine, it's just a marketing push.

44:09It's up there with like Kellogg's putting like, hey, we have vitamins in your cereal. It's like, whatever, man. You know, they just sprinkle some on there so they can print it on the box. That's kind of what I thought it was. Yeah, well, I'm sure you thought that because that was the, I would say, the message from the medical community and the scientific community for the last, I don't know how many decades. It's expensive urine. And in fact, 10 years ago, it was exactly 10 years ago, this huge study came out. It was called Enough is Enough. Not only are multivitamins useless, they're harmful.

44:44And that review article, I remember just looking at each and every study and just tearing it to shreds with how awful the study was. Not even measuring the nutrient in the blood and like thinking you're giving someone a vitamin and it's doing something and all sorts of problems, right? Well, we've come now 10 years later and there have been three very, very large randomized controlled trials that have been done. They're called the COSMOS studies. And these trials have given older adults, these are people age 65 or older, a standard run-of-the-mill, your least bougie multivitamin that you could think of called Centrum Silver.

45:22Yeah, I was going to say, what is this, like Centrum Silver? Yeah, funny. Yeah, Centrum Silver. And they gave these older adults the Centrum Silver multivitamin for a year or a placebo, right? So they were getting either a placebo or Centrum Silver. A variety of different endpoints have been measured. So we're talking about the brain endpoint here, the brain health. And essentially what was found was that these individuals that were given the multivitamin, not only did they not have accelerated brain aging, this is clearly not bad for you, it delayed brain aging. So global brain aging, there was a battery of tests that were done.

46:00Global brain aging was delayed by 2.1 years compared to the placebo group. essentially cognition was improved and something called episodic memory. So when you remember people, events, things like that, that's the stuff that goes as you get older, older adults, they can't remember things that they did, right? I mean, it's just like that's part of the short term memory that goes away, episodic memory. Well, there's something called episodic brain aging. And again, it's a battery of tests that are done. Well, episodic brain aging was also reduced by 4.9 years. So essentially five years of reduced episodic brain aging in the individuals that were given the multivitamin compared to a placebo.

46:44And this is after just a year. I think it was a year. It might've been two at the most. You can't remember. It was either one or two years they were given this multivitamin. But it just goes to show, I mean, how easy is it for someone to take a multivitamin pill? I mean, it's the easiest thing that you can give your parents or your grandparents or do for yourself. Super easy. And what's happening is it's filling all these micronutrient gaps that we are not getting from our diet. When I say micronutrients, I'm not talking about fat. I'm not talking about carbohydrates. I'm not talking about protein.

47:17I'm talking about vitamins, minerals, these essential fatty acids, essential amino acids that you get from these multivitamins. Most of the multivitamins you're getting are in the Centrum Silver case, you're getting the vitamins and the minerals, and you're getting some plant phytochemicals like lycopene or lutein. These are carotenoids that are found in plants. And so you're getting those as well. And we know that the majority of people are not getting them from their diet. 50 % of the U.S. population doesn't get enough magnesium from their food. Another 45 % doesn't get enough calcium. 35 % doesn't get enough vitamin A.

47:5425 % doesn't get enough vitamin C. It goes on and on. So what a multivitamin does is help fill those gaps that you're just not getting from eating a good diet. And these micronutrients are important. They are doing things that help delay aging, that help improve all these functions, whether we're talking about neurotransmitter synthesis or reducing inflammation or reducing oxidation that plays a role in brain aging, all these things, right? And so it's something that people don't think about because you don't see that kind of damage when you look in the mirror. You can't see oxidation or inflammation.

48:28I mean, sometimes if you're really inflamed, you'll feel it like if you're sick. But like the really small chronic type, it's kind of like, oh, brain foggy. I don't really, you know, you're just like, this is my normal, right? Yeah, sure. So when I tell people about this multivitamin study, it's thousands of people. It's compared to placebo. It's the gold standard that all these physicians want. And yet they're still going, it's expensive urine. It's expensive urine. It's like, who doesn't want their parents and their grandparents or yourself when you get to that point to delay your global brain aging by two years and your episodic brain aging by five years.

49:02Yeah, no kidding. It's a no brainer. So do you take a multivitamin now or is it like you take it when you're 60 and then you worry about this? Oh, absolutely. Now I've been taking it for the last at least 15 years. Oh, wow. Ever since I was a graduate student. I was convinced early on that even though I try to eat a healthy diet, it's hard to get all of your vitamins and minerals from food. And on top of that, the soil is very different. And depending on where your vegetables are from, depending on where you're eating your meat from, you're not getting all the micronutrients that you should be getting, even if you're eating their foods, right?

49:38The soil is depleted of some of these like selenium and things like that. And so it's just really hard to get these important micronutrients. And so a multivitamin is something that I think everyone should take starting now. It's not something that's going to be harmful. And if anything, it's going to be beneficial. It's filling these micronutrient gaps. But on top of that, I think there are other things that are important to supplement with as well, because you can only pack so much into a multivitamin, right? Let me jump on that in a second. But do you recommend any specific, I mean, we're not, I take it Centrum Silver is not the gold standard multivitamin for most people.

50:10It's not, but I like the fact that at least the general population can go to Walmart or CVS and afford that, right? I don't take Centrum Silver. The one that I take is one by Pure Encapsulations. I like theirs because it's just one you have to take and they do a pretty good job of getting the methylfolate. You're getting the right types of like B vitamins. I also like Thorn. They have a two a day one as well. You can find your sort of more bougie ones. And the reason I like those brands is because there's a lot of NSF certification, which essentially just means less contaminants coming into your multivitamin.

50:47But there's other good brands out there as well. And then maybe depending on like what your gaps are, like maybe, you know, for some women that are highly athletic and, you know, they might need a little more iron, going for one with iron might help, but that would have to be premenopausal women, of course. Postmenopausal women do not need iron and men do not need iron as well. I did a crazy blood panel, several, but they showed me where I was deficient in everything and I supplement that stuff, like CoQ10 and selenium and then like magnesium and zinc, things like that. So do you think you stack that with a multivitamin because there's stuff in the multi that you're just not getting?

51:25Yeah, I think with some of these, for example, magnesium, just because of its molecular weight, you can't pack enough of it into a multivitamin to fill the micronutrient gap. Yeah, I take two decent sized pills at night. Exactly. Each one is the size of a multivitamin. Right. Magnesium is one that I think that is needed as an extra supplement in addition to the multivitamin just because magnesium is so important for, you have to have magnesium to make and use energy. You have to have magnesium to repair damage to your DNA that's done every day to prevent cancer incidents. And there've been studies that have found, for example, for every 10 milligram decrease in magnesium intake, there was a 24 % increase in pancreatic cancer incidence.

52:07So it's like a dose-dependent association here, right? Less magnesium, more pancreatic cancer. So magnesium is one people aren't, they're not getting from their foods. It's mostly found in dark leafy greens because it's at the center of a chlorophyll molecule. Chlorophyll give plants their green color. And so if you don't eat a lot of dark greens, then you're not getting enough magnesium. It's also found in oats and some nuts like almonds, but that's not the stuff people are eating every day. So it does help to supplement. For men, you want to get about 400 milligrams of magnesium day for women, about 350.

52:39If you're athletic, if you use the sauna, you have to go up between 10 to 20 % more because you're sweating out magnesium. I see. So you're losing it. And so you have to replenish that. Now you can replenish it with electrolytes, but you might like some of these really athletic people, like endurance athletes, or if you're using the sauna every day, you're losing a significant amount of magnesium. So you do have to kind of make sure you're supplementing with even more than perhaps the, RDA, which would be for a mound, 400 milligrams a day. So that's great. You want to make sure you're getting the right form of magnesium.

53:11So magnesium, back in the day, the magnesium oxide, dioxide, like that was what everyone was taking. And it's just not very bioavailable. You don't absorb a lot of it. So what you want to take is the salt form. So you want to get these organic salts like magnesium malate, magnesium citrate, magnesium tarate. Those are pretty bioavailable absorbable forms. Or magnesium glycinate is another really good one. That's what I take. I like it because it has a glycine molecule attached to it. And so I take that at night because glycine also helps improve sleep, relaxes you. It's like calming and helps with sleep.

53:46And so that's something I like to take as well. I think I take magnesium threonate. Okay. Does that sound right? So magnesium threonate is another form of magnesium. It's been marketed as a brain magnesium. Perhaps that's why you're taking it. So there have been, And there's a company that patented this certain form of magnesium that is thought to more readily pass and cross the blood-brain barrier based on animal studies. So there's animal studies showing that you can take magnesium threonate. So it's actually magnesium L-threonate. And that basically, when you take that magnesium, it gets into your bloodstream and it's primarily going to the brain.

54:24And so there have been two randomized controlled trials, both done by the company that makes the supplement. Just keep that in mind. Potential conflict of interest. Doesn't mean it is, but those two studies have found that people given the magnesium L3 and 8, those individuals didn't have improved cognition compared to placebo. And so that's kind of great corroborating evidence. Perhaps it is getting into the brain more. I would say that if you are taking magnesium L3 and 8, that you probably also want to take another magnesium for the other functions because let's say it really is going to the brain more readily, then perhaps you're not getting as much to the other systems that you need for DNA repair, for example.

55:06I see. Or for the energy production, like not in the brain. So it might be a good idea to take the L3N8 and the magnesium glycinate. I see. Okay. I'm writing this down because I definitely only take that kind of magnesium. And I know someone sent me like magnesium breakthrough, all six forms of magnesium or whatever. Yeah, I take these very specific things that I was deficient in or stuff like specifically for sleep, but I don't take anything that's like, here's a bunch of stuff packed into one or like, hey, you probably need more of this because you eat like crap, like a busy person generally.

55:45Well, you mentioned CoQ10 as well. And that's another one that's really interesting. Some multivitamins have a very small amount of it, like 50 megs, which is better than nothing, but it's really a small amount. You're probably taking something that's much higher than that, maybe 100 or 200. That's a good question. I don't know. You don't know. Okay. It's a big enough pill. Like it's a tablet. It's separate from everything else. They're usually pretty big pills. CoQ10 is something that you do make in your body. It's important for your mitochondria, which is essentially energy producing little organelles inside most all of your cells, except for red blood cells.

56:17So really important for muscle health, for brain health, for sperm health, everything. It's really important for everything. And so there have been studies showing that supplementing with CoQ10 can improve cardiovascular health, can help with mitochondrial health as well. People that are actually taking a statin, it's essential because statins are inhibiting cholesterol synthesis. And the same pathway that is producing cholesterol in your body, it's called the HMG-CoA pathway, also makes CoQ10. And so people that are taking statins, their CoQ10 levels plummet. And that in turn affects their muscle, their mitochondrial health, brain health.

56:59So people taking a statin absolutely should be supplementing with some sort of CoQ10. I think ubiquinol is better than ubiquinone because because ubiquinol is the reduced form and it's more bioavailable. And so you can basically get more bang for your buck. However, the majority of studies that have been done have been done with the cheaper CoQ10 because it's more stable. And there's obviously benefits from that. You just have to take more of it. I see. Mine is from Pure Encapsulations, which you mentioned before. So hopefully it's hopefully they've got it covered. I don't know. Yeah, that's a good one to take.

57:30Yeah. My friend recommended that. And I was like, why is this twice the price of the stuff on Amazon? and he's like, because it actually is the stuff and not sawdust from China. And I was like, it's a fair argument, I suppose, for buying things on, especially if it's something you're putting in your body, you want to make sure it's the thing that it says on the label and the thing that you want. Absolutely. Speaking of expensive urine, I need a quick break. We'll be right back. I'd like to take a quick break for a second, because if this episode has you doing that thing where you're mentally inventorying your own health choices, you're not alone.

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59:32I'm happy to surface codes for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now for the rest of my conversation with Dr. Rhonda Patrick. When we're talking about slowing cognitive decline, are we talking about very subtle effects or is it really noticeable? Do you have any idea? I'm always curious about this. It depends on what study or compound or lifestyle modification that we're talking about. So for example, if we're talking about like doing a 10-minute high-intensity interval training session, there have been studies that show that immediately processing speed is faster, reaction time is faster, and so you perform better cognitively, right?

1:00:10So that would be something that's noticeable immediately. But if we're talking about like a multivitamin, that's not something necessarily that's going to be noticed, particularly because, like I said, And he is coming back to me. The study was actually two years long because they do these tests at the baseline and then they do them two years later. And you're comparing your progression because as we're older, as we reach the age of 65, brain atrophy, you start to lose between one to 2 % of your brain mass per year. You know, losing brain mass, you're, you know, losing cognitive function along with it, right?

1:00:44It's not just like you lose brain and everything stays the same. There are ways to counter that we can talk about with exercise. But so if we're talking about like a multivitamin, you know, you're not going to like it's not like a nootropic kind of effect that you're going to necessarily feel. Like if I want that kind of effect, I go to the hit. I do like a quick high intensity interval training, 10 minutes, blood flow to the brain. Now, there have been some studies showing that taking plant polyphenols, for example, the EGCG that's found in like green tea or in cocoa, cocoa powder, that increases vasodilation, increases blood flow to the brain, which is obviously what exercise is also doing.

1:01:21So you're getting a similar effect. The exercise is more robust, but it does have this sort of immediate cognitive enhancing kind of effect where you perform better as well. When we're talking about delaying brain aging, oftentimes, yes, cognitive function is improved along with that. But it depends on what's being measured and what we're talking about, essentially, right? So with these older adults, they are performing better on their cognitive test. And so will they necessarily know it? They might. After a couple of years, they might. But it's not like you and I would notice it as a younger person.

1:01:57You mentioned the high intensity interval training. So you said you do quick 10 minutes. Is that kind of the minimal effective dose, you'd say, 10 minutes? I would say to really improve something like global executive function and speed up your reaction time, your processing speed as well. Yeah, I think 10 minutes is probably the minimal amount of time. It has to be vigorous intensity exercise. So there was a study that compared light, moderate and vigorous. And when I talk about these, it really, it's funny because the definition kind of varies from study to study, but generally speaking, ballparking, when I talk about vigorous intensity exercise or when you read about vigorous intensity exercise, it's the kind of exercise that you're doing when you can't have a conversation, not even a breathy one.

1:02:42Oh, wow. You're really pushing hard. Your heart rate is 80 % max at least, right? So you're getting to that 80 % max zone. Now, high-intensity interval training isn't going to keep that vigorous intensity the entire 10 minutes. You're going to be pushing it for intervals and then recovering and then pushing it again and then recovering, right? Because 10 minutes consistent of that would be a lot, right, of not being able to talk. Like, that's almost impossible. So the high-intensity interval training is really the best tool for that cognitive enhancement that's pretty immediate that I've seen.

1:03:15You can do these what are called exercise snacks, which are also vigorous intensity exercise. You just do one or two minutes of something intense, like a burpee, and get your heart rate up and you will feel better. You will feel more alert. I mean, it's pretty obvious that increasing the blood flow to your brain for like two minutes is doing something. And what's fascinating is that for the longest time, if you think about these exercise guidelines that we always hear about, physical activity guidelines, it's always moderate intensity and vigorous intensity. And the vigorous intensity is like cut in half what the moderate intensity is, right?

1:03:51So they'll say 150 to 300 minutes a week of moderate intensity exercise. Well, what is that? That's the kind of exercise that you can, that's not walking, but it's the kind of exercise that you're basically, you could have a breathy conversation, but you can still like talk. Well, when it's vigorous intensity, they say 75 to 150 minutes, right? So it's cut in half. Well, it turns out there was this new study that just came out that researchers had these wearable devices on, I think it was the biobank data. People were wearing these wearable devices where researchers could track their heart rate.

1:04:25And people were doing these sort of vigorous intermittent lifestyle activity type of physical activity, which is like an exercise snack. So essentially, they're not necessarily dropping down and doing burpees for two minutes. That's like a structured exercise snack. They're like taking advantage of everyday life situations and getting their heart rate up. So they're taking the stairs, but not only taking the stairs, they're getting after it, right? They're kind of sprinting up the stairs and they're getting their heart rate up. Or instead of driving to work, perhaps they, you know, take a quick five minute bike ride to work or they're walking briskly to work because they live close to where they're at, whatever.

1:04:57Or they're doing housework and they're kind of really moving around. Whatever these lifestyle activities are that they're doing, they're getting their heart rate up for one to three minutes. What was interesting was a lot of data has come out where it's been shown that, yes, people doing these vigorous types of snacks, these intermittent lifestyle snacks, they have a lower, 40 % lower all-cause mortality, a 40 % lower cancer-related mortality, 50 % lower cardiovascular-related mortality than people not doing them. But this new study that came out was super interesting because it actually compared moderate-intensity exercise to this sort of short bursts of these exercise snacks and looked at outcomes as well.

1:05:39And it found that it wasn't a one to two ratio for moderate intensity versus vigorous intensity for lowering cardiovascular disease risk or cardiovascular related mortality. In fact, for every one minute of vigorous intensity exercise, people had to do four minutes of moderate intensity exercise to get the same lowering effect for cardiovascular-related mortality. So in other words, you had to do four times as much exercise if you were doing moderate versus vigorous. And then for light, it was insane. It was like you're going, in some cases, you're going like 54 times as much. So I don't know what's more important to you, but I like time efficiency.

1:06:19And the fact of the matter is that vigorous exercise is definitely the king when it comes to reducing cardiovascular mortality, when it comes to all-cause mortality and slightly even more with cancer-related mortality as well. Although that's the one that even any type of exercise really did have a beneficial effect. That's interesting. Yeah, I work out with my trainer three times a week and at the end we do that like killer finisher where you're just beat, but then he's like, okay, rope climb times 20, kettlebell swing times 20, toes to bar times 20, three rounds, and you're just like no breaks.

1:06:50And like at the end you're like, I'm gonna puke if I had any food in my belly. That's vigorous, right? Before that, I'm weight training, which I guess would be moderate. So I'm hoping that that three times a week is enough. It's a good balance. It's quite amazing how low the bar really is, though. Any exercise is better than none, and yet most of us don't really get any at all. And even doing these short bursts of like one to two minutes, three times a day, where you do get your heart rate up, but it's so short. And this is even in people that identify themselves as non-exercisers. So they don't have a trainer.

1:07:24They don't go to the gym. They're just doing that everyday stuff where they're getting their heart rate up. Sprint up the stairs. Be that weirdo at work that sprints up the stairs. It's the vigorous type of exercise that's so important for the brain. It's been shown, you know, and that has to do with the fact that you're producing lactate when you work really hard. And lactate is, it's not just the muscle burn. It's getting into the brain and it's signaling to the brain to activate a variety of important pathways, including something called brain-derived neurotrophic factor, BDNF. I've heard of that.

1:07:55Yes. BDNF helps you grow new neurons. So as an adult, it's responsible for the growing of new neurons called neurogenesis. It's important for neuroplasticity. So it helps increase neuroplasticity, which goes down with age. Neuroplasticity helps your brain adapt to a changing environment. If your brain can't adapt to the changing environment, you're not going to be able to keep up. So it really is important for cognition. That's also important for mood. If you can't adapt to a changing environment, people get depressed and neuroplasticity, decreased neuroplasticity is something often found with depression as well.

1:08:32And so it's also important for learning and memory. You know, I talked about how when you're in older age, once you reach the age of 65, you start to lose between one to two percent of brain mass per year, and particularly in a region called the hippocampus part of your brain, which is the part of the brain that's really largely responsible for learning and memory. And so that's terrible because it's, you know, you're losing that part of your brain. And then it's like, how am I going to remember or learn anything, you know, as the years go by? And there was a great study that was published. It's been a while.

1:09:05I think the study came out in like 2012. But it was a randomized control trial in older adults who were either in an exercise group or they were in the control group. And the control group was this sort of stretching. So they thought they were getting a treatment, right? Placebo controls are important. They thought they were getting a treatment, but it was actually not the treatment. It was a stretching control. The exercise group were doing on the moderate to vigorous scale of physical activity, and they're doing it three times a week, 30 minutes each session. And it was largely aerobic exercise.

1:09:38They did do a little bit of muscle strengthening stuff, but it was largely aerobic exercise. And by the end of the year long trial, those older adults that were in the exercise group, not only did they not lose the 2 % of their hippocampal brain region, they gained 2%. Wow. They gained 1 % to 2%. So they were not only not losing it, they were increasing the growth of new neurons, right? That BDNF activation from the exercise was growing new neurons to replace what they were losing through normal aging. And it was not only replacing it, it was actually adding mass. So important as we get older.

1:10:19So there's every reason to want to do aerobic types of exercise. again, lactate's very important because you're activating that BDNF, which is what is growing the new neurons. They gained their brain mass, but they also had improved cognition. So they both went hand in hand, right? Which is what you want to see, right? You don't want to see someone gaining brain mass, but still not performing well in their cognitive test. Ideally not. No. You mentioned before magnesium. Another thing I take, I take omega-3. I take a bunch of vitamin D. I was deficient in both of those things, but I'm trying to think of something I take that I'm not deficient in it or that.

1:10:51Oh, creatine. Here's something that I've been taking for forever. It used to be like gym pumps or whatever. I read something online recently that, oh, it's like it has cognitive benefits. Is that true? Or is that creatine being like, hey, we need to market harder. Let's say we have cognitive benefits. No, it's definitely true. I'm probably responsible for that. Okay. Whatever you read. You might have been. That might have been why I noted it here in the show notes. Yeah. It's funny. Creatine has been around forever. I have not taken it forever. I started taking it, I would say like two years ago, year and a half to two years ago, because that's when I started to really get into strength training and resistance training.

1:11:28I also have a coach and I'm deadlifting. I'm doing Olympic weightlifting and stuff. And so I started taking creatine around then for my muscle. And if you look at all the data out there, five grams a day is what you really need to have improved muscular performance. And so people listening going - You said five grams? Yes, but don't, we're going to expand on that. I'm saying that's what I was taking in the past tense. Yes. So creatine is something that our body does make. We make about one to two grams in our liver. And we also make something similar like that in our brain as well. It's very important because creatine gets stored in our muscle, in our brain as creatine phosphate.

1:12:07And creatine phosphate is essentially donating a phosphate group so that you can make energy. So phosphates, it's called ATP. You probably heard of ATP before, adenosine. Oh, I remember that from maybe middle school, high school, something like that. Yeah. Well, ATP is the energetic currency in our body, right? That's energy. Without ATP, we would die. We couldn't make energy. And ATP is essentially adenosine triphosphate. There's three phosphate groups on it. You need to add those phosphates. So every time you use energy, you use one of those phosphates. You have ADP, adenosine diphosphate, two of them.

1:12:42So then you have to add one back to make energy again. So you want to keep recycling it, right? So that you can have energy. Creatine phosphate is essentially doing that. It's storing that phosphate to give you the energy, right? So it's why your muscles love it, particularly when you're working out, because you're using up so much energy and you need to recycle it really quickly, right? And so that's why creatine comes in handy. So yeah, the creatine that you make from your liver, your muscles are very, very greedy and they consume most of that creatine because they're largely like using a lot of energy.

1:13:13And so there have been studies that have found if you supplement on top of what your body makes, five grams is really enough. At five grams, your muscles start to get saturated, at least over a course of a month. They get saturated. That's enough. So they take in the five grams that you're supplementing with and they're great. And that will improve your training volume. So it's not going to like increase muscle protein synthesis in the way protein would where you're gaining muscle mass. it's making you work out better. And that's why you're getting muscle mass, right? Because you're performing better with your exercise.

1:13:44Yeah, it's improving training volume. You're doing an extra like one to three reps per set. So that all said and done, I was doing the five grams a day because that's what all the science showed is what you need and your muscles are saturated after that. Then it turns out more and more researchers out there in the creatine field were looking at other organs, particularly the brain. And that's something I'm super interested in, as you know, brain health. There was a study out of Germany showing that it takes about 10 grams before you start to accumulate creatine in certain brain regions. Five grams, I just told you, your muscles are greedy.

1:14:19They take it all in. And so if you're only supplementing with five, that's great for your workouts, right? It's great for improving your training volume. But what's left over for the brain? There's not a lot of spillover, right? And so you have to get to that like 10 gram range. It wasn't until about 10 grams that creatine stores were saw to increase, to be seen to increase in brain regions. And so that's why now I've shifted from 5 to 10 grams a day as my baseline. There have been some other studies that have found that creatine works. It's not just like you take creatine and like sit around and do nothing and it's going to do all these miracles.

1:14:56Right. It works well when you're putting in effort. It works well when you're stressing your body. So exercise is a type of stress, right? You're stressing, you're using the energy. It's helping replenish that, right? Same goes for the brain. It works well in a stressed context. So stress could be in the form of sleep deprivation, like you're not getting enough sleep or your work-related stress or emotional-related stress. I personally have a lot of cognitive stress every day. I'm learning a lot of material. It's very stressful on me. So I think that I'm stressed constantly in that regard. I feel like my brain's constantly stressed, But that's where the creatine shines.

1:15:32And so studies have found, for example, people that are sleep deprived, if they supplement with between 20 to 25 grams of creatine, depending on their body weight, not only does the cognitive deficits that usually appear when you're totally sleep deprived not appear in people that took the creatine, they actually performed better than their baseline levels when they were actually getting enough sleep, which is astounding. Wow. You know, your brain consumes a lot of energy as well. It's a very energetically demanding muscle. So it makes sense that creatine would be very beneficial for the brain as well, particularly when there's stress around, right?

1:16:09That's when you need extra energy, when there's stress around. And so, like I said, my 10 grams a day is my baseline. One, based off that German study where I know it's accumulating in the brain. Two, because my anecdotal data has shown me that if I take 10 grams a day, I don't get afternoon sleepiness at all anymore. Oh, man, I need that. Everyone just perked up at that. It could be a placebo effect. I'm not going to discount that. It's very possible. I've done it. I've only had my five grams and I get the sleepiness. I've done it so many times. And like I said, it could totally be placebo because I know.

1:16:44oh my god, I didn't get the five grams. But there's plausible mechanistic data out there to explain why it would work as well. And so I think that it's very possible that's why I'm not getting the afternoon sleepiness anymore. And when I'm traveling and I go to a different time zone, I just got back from China like a month ago. I take 20 grams and it's life changing. It's a huge game changer for me. Like every day while you're over there, basically? No, I took it for like the first three to four days. When I first got to China, we're talking like your body wants to be asleep when it's awake and awake when you're asleep.

1:17:22When I first got to China, I had to get up the next day and give a talk. I had to like go do Q &As. I had to like be on on my game. And I was able to really like I was doing a great job. I was like very cognitive on my game. And I took my 20 grams. I had like my one cup of coffee. And I was great. So for me, it really helps with the just being able to perform well. Again, maybe it's placebo, but there's studies showing that it has been shown to do that. It's so cheap. Just take it. Like it's not, this is such a cheap supplement you can get and mess with for yourself and see if it works. And even if it's placebo, take it.

1:17:59Well, let's talk about that because for one, all the gym bros out there already know this, creatine monohydrate, right? Like that's the form you have to take. And I would say, yes, that is the form you should take. It's the one that's 100 % going to work. With that said, you do want to look for a legitimate brand. So for one, don't take gummies. Okay, like this study just came out, I don't know, a couple months ago. 98 % of all creatine gummies out there had no creatine in it. Zero. That does not surprise me. No surprise. Yeah, zero. Well, if you talk to any supplement manufacturers and ask them, hey, how easy is it to dissolve supplements into a gummy?

1:18:39And they're going to be like, it's so hard. It's so hard to dissolve it, to actually get it to dissolve into the gummy. And then you have to heat it up and like things are heat sensitive and all sorts of like problems occur. So don't take gummies too. I think you should look for an NSF certification on it because there are a lot of creatine powders out there that have little hitchhiking heavy metals like lead that get into it. And so I take Thorne because it is NSF certified as well. I'm sure there's some other brands out there. That's the one I take. I also like them because they have travel packets, five gram travel packets.

1:19:12And so every time I'm traveling, I have all my packets with me and I'm taking my four packets a day. Yeah. You don't want to bring a giant bag of white powder through TSA and have to explain that. I've done that many times and I label it creatine. Yes. And it's worked so far with my Sharpie on there. So that's only a matter of time till my luck runs out, I think, on that. Right. Yeah. I'm a big believer in the brain effects. And there's a lot of other mechanisms besides the energy production as well. It's been shown to like lower inflammation. And to make creatine in your body, it demands a lot of methyl groups.

1:19:49So methylation is something that's important for gene expression. So you might have heard of epigenetics. Yeah. These methyl groups are just carbons with three hydrogens on them. And they're all around our DNA and they're in certain patterns. And those patterns will activate genes or they'll turn off genes in certain ways. So they're very important. But those methylation groups, you need to get them, right? You need to make them and they need to be used. But in order to make creatine, you have to use them as well. So it's a big sink. Actually, 40 % of all methylation made is used to make creatine.

1:20:22So when you supplement with creatine, you're actually freeing up those methylation groups to be used for other things. So it's also really important for that as well. it's on my top list of supplements now for the brain. I give it to my mom. I mean, I wish my dad would take it, but he won't. He takes the Centrum Silver. Like he's been doing that for like decades, like without me even telling him. That's like the pill he's - Why won't he take creatine? It's just like, that's such a low bar. It's just two little capsules. I've got him taking omega-3 and vitamin D and the powder is just too much to ask.

1:20:49What about capsules? They do have creatine capsules. He could just take two of those if he's - Because it is gross to dissolve. It doesn't dissolve. You just put the creatine in the water and it tastes like sand. And if he won't do that, just give him capsules. Maybe he'll do that. The capsules, you have to take a lot because you need like, and to get the brain effects, 10 grams, like there's just no way. That's just four capsules. Really? Are they two and a half grams? Yeah, they're bulky. Yeah. I'll look into it. I'll look into it. I definitely have to have you come back because we didn't talk about sauna, cold therapy, coffee, a little bit about brain fog, cancer stuff, alcohol.

1:21:21I mean, I have all these notes, but I'll have to save it for next time. I got to ask, does your kitchen look like a laboratory with all the little supplements you have? Or are you pretty? It does. It does. My pantry, almost whole half, I would say three-fourths of that side is supplements. Yeah. And then when you go into my actual kitchen, there's this cubby hole in my kitchen where like it's supposed to be for the toaster and you have a little door that slides down and make it like you can't see all the electronics. That's where all my supplements are that I use on a daily basis, you know? And the pantry is like my stock.

1:21:51So... It's like a pharmacy. I do take a lot of supplements. I do take ones that are most evidence-based, but for sure, it's definitely a little bit crazy if you were to come see my house. I think next time I'll ask you for your whole stack because it's not a short explanation if you've got that much real estate dedicated to it. Thank you so much for coming back on the show. It's a pleasure to see you and talk to you again. It's been so long. I won't wait 10 years before the next round. We'll get something on the books. Sounds good. Coming soon. Thanks. Enjoyed it. You're about to hear a preview where Uba Butler pulls back the curtain on how fake five-star reviews, viral hype, and algorithmic blind spots quietly shape what we believe is real.

1:22:29The whole idea of the restaurant was that it was an appointment-only restaurant, so no walk-ins. It shocked me how much work people were doing in their own minds to build up the idea and the gravitas of this fake establishment. And yeah, people were doing anything they could to get a table. And the more the phone calls increased, the more people that called me, the more people that wanted to talk to me, the more that I told them they couldn't come and the more they wanted to come people curate their lives based on consensus the whole thing for me comes from a place of curiosity as well and it also started this process of beginning to question slightly these platforms which we all considered to be completely trustworthy i don't know exactly how many people went in search of it but it must have been significant because we were getting hundreds of people trying to book and yeah it became the number one rated restaurant in London.

1:23:18How far could the bollocks go? And it hit me that maybe the end of the story was to open it for one night only and serve real customers, real food. If enough people say something is great, will you deny the fact that you've got a bad meal in front of you? Will you deny your taste buds and buy into the nonsense? That's what I did. I basically opened my garden shed for one night only to see like whether people would believe the reviews they'd read online more than their objective experience. We really are living in the golden age of bullshit. It is so easy to convincingly lie to people. Check out episode 1235, where Uba Butler exposes just how fragile online trust really is.

1:24:04Fantastic conversation, tons of practical takeaways here. And this is just scratching the surface of what Dr. Patrick dives into regularly. So if you want more deep dive science on micronutrients, brain health, longevity, sauna protocols, cancer prevention, all the latest research that she's pulling apart, definitely check out her podcast and newsletter over at Found My Fitness. She drops insanely detailed breakdowns, study summaries, and tools you can actually put to work. Links to her podcast, newsletter, and everything we talked about today will of course be in the show notes, along with transcripts and ways to support the show.

1:24:32Those deals are all searchable and clickable on the deals page at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Also, our newsletter, We Bit Wiser, We're writing this every single week. It is a two-minute read or less. It is practical. It's something that will have an immediate impact on your decisions, psychology, and relationships. If you haven't signed up yet, I invite you to come check it out. It really is a great companion to the show. JordanHarbinger.com slash news is where you can find it. Don't forget about 6-Minute Networking as well at 6Minutenetworking.com.

1:25:00I'm at JordanHarbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. And this show is created in association with Podcast One. And my team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Tata Sidlowskis, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for the show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. In fact, the greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. If you know somebody who's interested in health, especially cognition and brain health, definitely share this episode with them.

1:25:27In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. huge thanks to Noom for sponsoring this conversation and supporting the Jordan Harbinger show if weight loss or improving your health is something you've been thinking about especially in a way that's sustainable check out Noom I would be remiss if I didn't mention the pricing initial three-week subscription and four weeks of medication from$99 plus tax and$199 per month plus tax for the 12-week subscription thereafter final pricing depends on program selection as far as the GLP-1 program Noom Microdose GLP-1RX program involves healthy diet exercise medication when appropriate and support individual results vary meds and personalization based on clinical need as determined by a third-party clinician not reviewed by FDA for safety efficacy or quality and not available in all 50 U.S.

1:26:12states