1320: The Moon | Skeptical Sunday

10:27Jessica Wynn:Right. That's just totally ridiculous. But but this sounds similar. Right. Because they're like, well, humans are 98 percent water. So if the moon affects the tides, of course, it's sloshing around water in your body and your cells in a different way and yada, yada, yada.

10:39Jordan Harbinger:Right. I mean, you can sort of understand how people can make that assumption. I can follow the logic.

10:45Jessica Wynn:It's just that it's probably not true.

10:47Jordan Harbinger:But then if you think about it, it's when physics comes in yelling like, no, stop what you're saying. Because tides aren't about water. They're about scale and differential pull across something huge. But sure, let's do the math on this really common claim because it does use facts. Humans are around 60 % water. The moon causes tides. Those are both true statements. When people then say, therefore, the moon must pull on the water in our bodies and affect us, it's a false equivalency.

11:21Jessica Wynn:But see this on social media, hear it in casual conversation, even from educated people. It just, I don't know, it feels like it should be true.

11:28Jordan Harbinger:Right. The problem is it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of how gravity and tidal forces work. The critical part is the scale. So tidal forces aren't just about gravity, they're about differential gravity, and that's different. They depend on the difference in gravitational pull across an object. So this difference in gravitational force across a large body, like the ocean, creates tidal bulges. There is a tidal force formula. It's proportional to mass times size divided by distance cubed.

12:04Jessica Wynn:Okay, so complex. Not doing that now.

12:07Jordan Harbinger:The size of the object being affected is crucial. So tidal forces get stronger as objects get bigger. They get weaker very rapidly with distance. That's the distance cubed part.

12:20Jessica Wynn:Okay, so if the moon is pulling strongly on the northern part of an ocean and less so on the southern part of the ocean, the water sloshes in that direction. That totally makes sense. But your body, being relatively small, we're not sloshing. We're not sloshing anywhere.

12:34Jordan Harbinger:Right. It's just that oceans are massive enough for these tidal forces to matter.

12:39Jessica Wynn:Sure.

12:39Jordan Harbinger:Ocean water can move freely across enormous basins, like these huge connected regions of the ocean that span thousands of miles. Your body isn't like that. Water in your body is contained in cells, blood vessels, organs. It all holds water in place. So even if there were a tidal force, there's not. But even if there were, your body's structure would prevent any movement. Your body's not a water balloon. It's a highly organized, compartmentalized system. You're just too small for tidal forces to matter.

13:14Jessica Wynn:Right. So my blood is not responding to the moon phases and making waves because it's being pumped around by my heart and other things in my body.

13:22Jordan Harbinger:Definitely not. Right. Your circulatory system is a closed loop with pumps that completely overwhelm any external gravitational effect.

13:31Jessica Wynn:So across the ocean is thousands of miles. Across the human body, it's five or six feet. And across a cell, it's like, I don't know, what do you measure that in, micrometers? Yeah, something like that. So there's no effect on us at all, really.

13:42Jordan Harbinger:None. You're not a tiny ocean. Compared to Earth's 8 ,000-mile diameter, six feet is infinitesimally small. So size matters. I knew it once again. I tell you this every episode.

13:56Jessica Wynn:Yes.

13:56Jordan Harbinger:Scale is everything.

13:57Jessica Wynn:Okay, so Earth's oceans are just perfect. They're just the perfect size. Perfect, yeah.

14:02Jordan Harbinger:The water on the moon-facing side is about 8 ,000 miles closer to the moon than water on the far side.

14:10Jessica Wynn:Okay.

14:11Jordan Harbinger:That difference matters at ocean scale. So the gravitational pull varies measurably across that distance. The result is those water bulges going toward and away from the moon. So everyday forces you experience are millions of times stronger than that.

14:27Jessica Wynn:What do you mean everyday forces? That feels like a bold claim? I don't know. Tell me more about that.

14:32Jordan Harbinger:Well, think about it. A swimming pool doesn't show tides. A small lake doesn't show tides. You know, the Great Lake shows minimal tides. Yeah, and they're huge. Yeah, two to four inches max.

14:43Jessica Wynn:Okay. And that's because it's across hundreds of miles.

14:47Jordan Harbinger:Or put a cup of water on the table. That water is the same percentage H2O as your body. Does the cup show tides? No. Does the water slosh toward the moon? No. I mean, why not?

15:00Jessica Wynn:I mean, I guess if you could measure something on like a tiniest of scales, you might find something, but then also then go down to the cellular level and it's like not there. And even if it were, it would be overwhelmed by like osmotic pressure or something. Right. So these things are all too small for tidal forces to have any measurable effect at all.

15:17Jordan Harbinger:Right. And look, if you're sitting next to someone, their gravitational pull on you is stronger than the moon's tidal effect on you.

15:25Jessica Wynn:OK, that's a good way of putting it. So the gravitational pull from my MacBook or whatever is probably as strong as the title for something that the moon has from my desk or something. So by this logic, I should be tracking human phase effects, right? If I sit next to my wife or something and she's pulling on me.

15:43Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, right. Like, oh, sorry, I did that wrong. My coworker was sitting too close during the meeting would be the excuse.

15:50Jessica Wynn:The belief is basically that the moon is out there pulling on us, pulling on our bodies, pulling on our blood. Somehow that affects our moods enough to make people act differently.

15:59Jordan Harbinger:That's the claim that lunar gravity is subtly influencing your behavior.

16:04Jessica Wynn:OK, other than the fact that you just explained why that's not really possible. It does feel plausible, actually.

16:09Jordan Harbinger:I guess. But here's where else it falls apart. Even the building you're sitting in right now exerts more gravitational force on you than the moon's tidal effect does. Sure. So if gravity worked that way, architecture would be controlling our moods.

16:23Jessica Wynn:OK. Open floor plans suddenly make a lot more sense. That really puts it into perspective. That's interesting, right? You're working in a skyscraper. So it blocks the moon's effects. You know, if you want to. Sure. Or if you work in a basement.

16:33Jordan Harbinger:Yeah.

16:33Jessica Wynn:Yeah. That's so interesting.

16:35Jordan Harbinger:It's all kinds of things have more of an effect on you. Your phone versus the moon. I mean, forget it. When you're holding your phone, its gravitational pull on you is stronger than the moon's differential tidal force because your phone is much, much closer to you.

16:52Jessica Wynn:So my phone is influencing me more than the moon, even when it's off.

16:55Jordan Harbinger:Even when it's off, by orders of magnitude. Gravity falls off with the square of distance, so tidal forces fall off with the cube of distance.

17:05Jessica Wynn:So distance really kills the vibe, got it, okay.

17:07Jordan Harbinger:Very, very fast. Yeah. Earth's gravity is 9.8 meters per second squared. So that's constant and overwhelming. The moon's additional pull on you is about three millionths of that. Wow. So for comparison, like riding an elevator creates acceleration forces thousands of times stronger. Walking upstairs, too. Turning your head quickly creates stronger forces on the fluid in your inner ear than anything lunar ever could.

17:36Jessica Wynn:So the moon is not tugging on me emotionally. Gravity-wise, it barely knows I'm here.

17:41Jordan Harbinger:But the moon does play a huge role on a planetary scale. So it acts like a gyroscopic stabilizer for Earth's axial tilt, which is about 23.5 degrees. The tilt is the reason we have seasons. You know, if you've ever looked at a globe, that little lean, that's it. So without the moon, that tilt would wobble wildly.

18:04Jessica Wynn:That kind of instability would not be good for life as we know it, yeah?

18:08Jordan Harbinger:Right. And just like with humans, extreme wobbling leads to instability.

18:13Jessica Wynn:Too much bounce, not enough support. I know some people with the same problem, actually.

18:17Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, I know some guys with that problem, too.

18:20Jessica Wynn:It's an inclusive wobble.

18:22Jordan Harbinger:But if the Earth's tilt were unstable and wobbled, it would cause extreme climate shifts, ice ages, and heat spikes. So the stability gives us consistent, predictable seasons over millions of years and allows for stable climate patterns. These make Earth more habitable, and it's why we get seasons instead of chaotic weather.

18:45Jessica Wynn:Yeah, that sounds deeply unpleasant. Yeah.

18:48Jordan Harbinger:And another effect is the moon is slowly slowing Earth down.

18:53Jessica Wynn:Yeah, that feels personal somehow. What's going on there?

18:56Jordan Harbinger:It's called tidal friction. and the moon pulls on Earth's oceans and even the solid crust creating those tidal bulges.

19:04Jessica Wynn:Earth's little love handles.

19:06Jordan Harbinger:They are like Earth's little love handles. And because Earth spins faster than the moon orbits, it drags those bulges slightly ahead of the moon and the friction between the water, seabed, and Earth's crust turns that drag into heat. So that friction, the tidal friction, it acts like a brake on Earth's rotation.

19:27Jessica Wynn:So does that mean that our days are getting longer by some measure?

19:31Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, about two milliseconds per century.

19:35Jessica Wynn:Okay.

19:35Jordan Harbinger:But 600 million years ago, that means a day was only 22 hours long.

19:40Jessica Wynn:Oh, wow. Okay.

19:40Jordan Harbinger:So meanwhile, that same energy gets transferred to the moon, pushing it farther away, about an inch and a half per year. And this is all measurable physics.

19:50Jessica Wynn:Yeah, that seems like a more significant difference than two milliseconds per century. So the moon is slowly backing out of this relationship. I guess I can't really blame it.

19:59Jordan Harbinger:Kind of, but very politely. You know, think Homer Simpson sinking into the bushes, but over billions of years.

20:06Jessica Wynn:So does that change how much light we get or how much moonlight we get or anything like that?

20:10Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, it's more like stretching the day. So as Earth spins more slowly, days get longer by milliseconds. weekends, moonlight gets dimmer, tides weaken, and eventually no more total solar eclipses will happen.

20:25Jessica Wynn:Will it get to the point where the sun and the moon just won't align at all?

20:28Jordan Harbinger:Right. Over very long timescales, that affects how much moonlight reaches us. So a full moon today gives about 0.1 to 0.3 lux of light. Sunlight, by comparison, is over 100 ,000 lux. But moonlight is still bright enough to cast shadows. And over time, that light is slowly fading.

20:50Jessica Wynn:And seeing the moon shift in shape and brightness makes it easy to notice something real changing and just assume that it might be doing something to us.

20:58Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, sure. I mean, moonlight is a real physical stimulus. It's actual light. It's not a mystical force. What's different across lunar phases is simply how much reflected sunlight reaches Earth, not the moon suddenly exerting new powers.

21:13Jessica Wynn:So it's not the phase, it's the brightness.

21:16Jordan Harbinger:Right. It's just reflected sunlight. And we do see biological effects in species which are particularly light-sensitive, especially in animals that live in tidal zones. So coastal ecosystems and many marine species have evolved around tidal rhythms, not the moon directly.

21:35Jessica Wynn:So animals do respond to the moon.

21:37Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, through light and tides, not mystical energy. So corals, for one, they spawn in massive synchronized events, time to lunar cycles. On the Great Barrier Reef, corals release eggs and sperm a few nights after the full moon in spring. It's just the schedule. Grunion fish, like, squiggle onto California beaches during spring tides to reproduce. Palolo worms swarm once a year during the last quarter moon in October. It's just nature's calendar.

22:08Jessica Wynn:Do we know the mechanisms behind this? How do animals actually know what's happening?

22:13Jordan Harbinger:It's a combination of very ordinary light cues, tides, and internal biological clocks. So nocturnal animals are especially sensitive to moonlight. Brighter nights make predators more effective, so prey species often reduce activity during full moons. Owls hunt more when visibility improves. Sea turtle hatchlings even navigate by moonlight, reflecting off the ocean. All very straightforward mechanisms.

22:40Jessica Wynn:Okay, so no fancy metaphysical astrology stuff, just light, basically.

22:46Jordan Harbinger:Right. Light changes behavior. But here's the key distinction. Moonlight affects behavior. The lunar phase is just how much of the moon's surface is lit from our point of view. It doesn't exert any influence on its own.

23:01Jessica Wynn:Which is disappointing to some people because it's comforting to blame celestial objects instead of ourselves for all of our woes. I mean, I can get behind that.

23:08Jordan Harbinger:Wouldn't that be nice? But the moon's innocent. Turns out we're the drama.

23:12Jessica Wynn:So if you've ever blamed a bad decision on the moon, good news. It wasn't the moon. Bad news. That was all you. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Good Chop. I honestly can't remember the last time I set foot in a grocery store. It's 2026. I got better things to do than wander around comparing steaks under fluorescent lighting. That's why I like Good Shop. They deliver high quality American meat, America, and seafood straight to your door. Vacuum sealed and frozen at peak freshness, so your freezer stays stocked and you've always got something legit on hand when you want to cook.

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25:50Jessica Wynn:All my life, I've heard people say, it's always crazier during a full moon, right? ERs, hospitals are supposedly more crowded on the full moon. 9-1-1 dispatchers say they're busier. Everybody's got a story. So is there any lunar effect on things like this, really?

26:05Jordan Harbinger:No. But the people saying it believe it sincerely. And they're trained professionals who deal with chaos for a living. But when we look at the data, I'm talking large data sets, actual statistics, the effect just isn't there. One study looked at hundreds of thousands of ER visits, no full moon effect. Psychiatric emergencies tracked over multiple years, no correlation. Trauma admissions, nothing.

26:34Jessica Wynn:Huh. I've also heard people swear maternity wards spike during full moons. Is there data on that? There's got to be.

26:39Jordan Harbinger:That's actually been tested a lot because it is such a common claim. You know, there's millions of babies born every month from France to North Carolina to India, hundreds of thousands of births a day. Zero correlation. And the more emergencies that are claimed, like more emergency C-sections during full moons, also show nothing. No increase, no pattern. The claim that more pregnant women's water breaks during full moons was specifically studied, specifically tested, multiple times, and it always fails. The belief is obsessively studied because it's easy to measure and it just never holds up.

27:20Jessica Wynn:Not even a tiny blip?

27:21Jordan Harbinger:Nothing.

27:22Jessica Wynn:So there's another popular myth that the moon affects blood pressure. And that sounds like what you just explained with the tidal forces. And that's false too, I'm guessing.

27:30Jordan Harbinger:But I'm just surprised how much this one comes up. You know, the thing is your blood pressure changes constantly with activity, stress, food, even your posture. So these changes are measured down to millimeters of mercury. If the moon affected blood pressure, the change would be measured in micro units, far below anything physiological. But your blood pressure changes more when you simply stand up out of a chair than it could ever change from something lunar.

28:00Jessica Wynn:So I've heard people say that you should avoid medical procedures and surgery during the full moon. Also BS, right?

28:06Jordan Harbinger:Yeah. People claim it causes increased bleeding. This has also been studied. Thousands of procedures studied over years. No increase in bleeding, no increase in complications, no problems with recovery. That belief comes from ancient humoral medicine.

28:23Jessica Wynn:What is humoral medicine?

28:24Jordan Harbinger:So it was a really popular medical theory in the West from ancient Greece up through the 19th century. The idea was that illness came from an imbalance in the body's fluids, what they called the four humors, which were blood, phlegm, yellow bile, and black bile. Yeah. Yeah. And people believed these four bodily fluids controlled all health and temperament. They also believed the moon affected fluids like tides. So things like wound healing, bleeding, and even surgery were thought to depend on the lunar phase.

28:59Jessica Wynn:I guess that's somewhat reasonable if you thought tides worked that way on human bodies. So this is all very pre-science vibes.

29:06Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, very, very much so. The specific belief was that lunar phases, you know, affected bleeding, healing, and surgical outcomes. But that belief hasn't just been tested once. It's been tested repeatedly across decades with these large data sets. Meta-analysis, studies of many studies have completely disproven it. But the belief still lingers somehow. You know, some surgeons still schedule around the moon. Some patients still request surgery be scheduled around lunar phases. It's crazy.

29:37Jessica Wynn:Jeez, if there were an effect, these massive data sets would capture it. But they don't at all. So maybe people are maybe they're a little moonstruck.

29:45Jordan Harbinger:I mean, well, the connection between behavior and the moon is ancient.

29:49Jessica Wynn:So a lot of these myths, they stick because people have been repeating them forever, like any good folktale. Right. And I even know doctors that'll tell me a folktale. And I'm like, is that true? And they're like, oh, you know, it's like something you heard. Remember you heard some crap from your parents when you were a kid. And then when you're 40, you're like, I should Google this. And it's just total bullshit. You're like, wait a minute. That's not true.

30:10Jordan Harbinger:I mean, it's a thing. Really strong oral tradition holds. And beliefs around the moon go further back than you realize. Even the language gives it away. The word lunatic comes from Latin. Luna means moon. Tic is Latin for touched. So originally it literally meant moon touched.

30:29Jessica Wynn:So the idea that the moon messes with your mind is baked right into our vocabulary from the jump.

30:33Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, totally. Ancient cultures believed the moon caused madness, crime, emotional instability. Women were often central to that story. You know, women out at night, women's cycles, intuition, healing. Suddenly every woman became, you know, a witch by the moonlight.

30:50Jessica Wynn:Huh. Well, there are women today wrapped up with the moon and cycles and they call themselves witches, I suppose. Right. That's the thing.

30:57Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, yeah, that's definitely a thing. But now it's framed as, you know, empowerment or spirituality instead of suspicion. And the claims about spells and the moon's powers today from these modern witchy women are just as misguided as the ones that say, you know, the full moon means more crime.

31:17Jessica Wynn:But police officers make full moon claims, too. If there's more moonlight, is there more violence? I mean, it kind of seems plausible, not because of metaphysical reasons, but people are out later, there's more light, so they get up to no good or they drink more. I don't know. I'm not sure.

31:31Jordan Harbinger:I mean, it is a good theory until you look at the actual crime data. So homicides, assaults, domestic violence, robberies, decades of records across lots of cities show no consistent relationship with lunar phases. One study looked at four years of crime data just in Ohio. No effect. And a 2009 meta-analysis reviewed multiple studies and found, again, nothing. I know firefighters say it. 911 dispatchers say it. EMTs say it. So the belief reinforces itself across professions, but there's just no pattern.

32:09Jessica Wynn:So does anything predict busy ER nights or more police activity?

32:14Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, more boring things. You know, nothing lunar. Hospital admissions and ER visits show weekly patterns. Monday morning heart attacks are more common. It's thought to be returning to work stress.

32:27Jessica Wynn:Depressing. Yeah, it's horrible.

32:29Jordan Harbinger:Traffic accidents increase on specific days and times you can probably imagine.

32:34Jessica Wynn:Yeah, Friday night, Saturday night when people are dumb and drinking.

32:37Jordan Harbinger:Right, exactly. After the bar closes.

32:39Jessica Wynn:Yeah.

32:39Jordan Harbinger:These patterns are predictable and consistent. There's a clear weekend effect where more recreational and alcohol-related incidents happen.

32:48Jessica Wynn:That's predictable.

32:49Jordan Harbinger:It's all predictable, completely. Hospitals, police and emergency services all know when chaos is coming. So they prepare for things like holidays, major events, even paydays. New Year's Eve, Fourth of July, Super Bowl Sunday. These move the numbers, not lunar phases. But a chaotic ER shift is explained by day of the week, time of day, local events, weather, holidays, staffing levels matter. But then someone says, hey, it's a full moon. That becomes the explanation. So we ignore the mundane factors and grab on to the cosmic one. You know, there's a lunacy myth in psychiatry. That's been thoroughly debunked.

33:31Jordan Harbinger:modern studies should show no increase in psychiatric admissions, suicide rates, or self-harm incidents during full moons. Crisis hotline calls don't spike either, but you hear people say that.

33:45Jessica Wynn:Yeah, you do. I swear I've heard that some places used to staff up for the full moon or whatever, right? That's 100 % true, despite no evidence.

33:54Jordan Harbinger:And then we get a scheduling effect. So when hospitals staff up for full moons, more staff means more observations, more documented incidents. See, we were right to staff up.

34:06Jessica Wynn:Right. OK. So but in this case, they've created the pattern they were looking for.

34:09Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, exactly. It's not science. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. So the distribution is random for all the things people claim happen more frequently under a full moon.

34:20Jessica Wynn:So this is the part that I still struggle with. these are trained professionals. They work with people. They work with data. Why doesn't the evidence land?

34:30Jordan Harbinger:It's a great question. I know. Well, I don't think it's an intelligence problem. It's like a human brain problem. It's these systemic routines and these learned procedures and the stories.

34:40Jessica Wynn:Oh, good. That's worse. But I guess we see it all the time on the show, right, especially on Skeptical Sunday, because a ton of these topics come down to, hey, cognitive bias actually exists.

34:52Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, sure. And it's because they work nights. So they see the moon often. If you work nights, you're missing daylight. And this affects you way more than the moon phase. Plus, their jobs are stressful, can be unpredictable and emotionally intense. And humans hate that kind of randomness. So anecdotes are shared and reinforced among colleagues. You know, remember that crazy full moon last month? Because the calm nights don't become stories.

35:20Jessica Wynn:I know what I've seen with my own lying eyes always beats statistics every time.

35:25Jordan Harbinger:Right. It's subconscious confirmation bias, right? You don't realize you're doing it. It makes you notice and remember information that confirms existing beliefs and ignore or forget information that contradicts them. So even when confronted with the data, personal experience feels more real, you know?

35:45Jessica Wynn:Yeah. Okay. So this is the part where I have to tell a personal example that makes me look like a bit of an idiot. But when I was younger, my mom, who's a very reasonable person, my whole family, we lived on the street and there was like a main road that turned onto a side street, like most people. And there's a streetlight in that little turn, right? Because it's a turn. You want to make a streetlight there. So we would turn and come home. And a lot of the time that light would turn off as we turned under it. And it was like, whoa, that's weird. it happened so often over the period of I don't know 15 or 20 years or however long I lived in that area and my mom would be like oh that's a thing that happens to me all the time and then when her father passed away she's like oh it's my father saying hello I mean she was you know sort of tongue-in-cheek with that part but she was like look that light turns off it's like a special thing that happens for me you know then as I went when I started driving and I went to college and stuff like that and I started coming home late I also would notice that that light would turn off for me and I would be like, mom, I have the light thing too.

36:43Jessica Wynn:And she'd be like, oh, it runs in the family or whatever. And so this is all sort of pre-internet. Later, when the internet became more of a thing and there were news groups and science discussions and stuff, I remember being like, okay, what's the real reason for this? So I posted about it and that's when somebody basically had to explain what confirmation bias is. And they're like, you don't notice the thousand times that light didn't turn off when you drove under it. You if it's one in 10 times, you're like that light, there it goes, turns off when I drive under it. You just don't notice when a light that's in an area with other lights doesn't turn off.

37:17Jessica Wynn:Why would you notice that? And then another guy on the same board, this is like a news group or whatever. Another guy chimes in and is like, hey, this is my time to shine. So here's the thing. I build these and inside the light, there's something called, I think it's called a solenoid or something. And it's some electronic component. And the problem is older ones that are like the ones in street lights that are on all the time, they get hot. And what they are programmed to do when they get hot is turn off so that they don't melt. And it's like, oh, okay. So the street light turning off is totally random.

37:47Jessica Wynn:It has to do with how hot the solenoid or whatever inside gets. That plus confirmation bias makes you think you have a mystical power to turn off lights when you drive under them.

37:57Jordan Harbinger:How bummed were you? You got the facts. I was pretty happy because I don't like the idea

38:02Jessica Wynn:of like supernatural stuff. There's always an explanation for things. But that was sort of my entree into being like, every time somebody thinks they have some sort of superpower or something is too crazy of a coincidence, it's probably something like this. And it is, actually.

38:18Jordan Harbinger:And it is. It's why showing people data often doesn't work too because they've just programmed their mind to think that's why that light is going off.

38:27Jessica Wynn:Yeah.

38:28Jordan Harbinger:And the data is forgettable. Experiences are memorable. So people often double down when confronted with contradicting evidence. The moon is basically the perfect trigger for our pattern-seeking brain. You know, it's regular, it's visible, and it's culturally loaded.

38:45Jessica Wynn:And pattern-seeking is what we're all about. We can't help it as a species. We cannot.

38:49Jordan Harbinger:You know, humans evolved to detect patterns. It's a survival mechanism because it's better to see patterns that aren't there than miss real danger. You know, we're biased. We're finding connections. and the moon shows up like a giant spotlight and our minds go, something's happening.

39:06Jessica Wynn:And we're only really watching the moon half the time, right? At night. I don't see what's going on there during the day.

39:11Jordan Harbinger:That's the spotlight effect. So full moons are bright, beautiful and noticeable. New moons are invisible. So unless you live somewhere with no light pollution, you're not consciously tracking new moons.

39:24Jessica Wynn:Which is increasingly rare, as we discussed in episode 1237, right? You got very few places have no light pollution. So yeah, I don't know. I'm not tracking the moon at all. I just, if I needed it, I would look at some website that does that.

39:36Jordan Harbinger:You can put on that planets app.

39:38Jessica Wynn:There you go.

39:38Jordan Harbinger:Yeah. So when a chaotic night happens during a new moon, you don't connect it to the lunar cycle. You blame literally anything else. But when something dramatic happens during a full moon, it feels connected. And you can see this when people try to match big events to lunar phases. You know, for example, less than 50 percent of the moon was illuminated on 9-11. So that didn't get blamed. Right. Meanwhile, November 28th, 2012 is known for being the most peaceful day ever recorded in New York City. There just was no murders. There were no shootings, no stabbings. And it was a full moon. But people don't want to talk about that because it goes against their right.

40:20Jordan Harbinger:It's the craziest on a full moon.

40:23Jessica Wynn:I have to say, How crazy is that that there's one day over a decade ago where it's like, hey, nobody got murdered, shot or stabbed in the city. And it's not like, oh, there was no crime. I mean, there was still crime. It's just that nobody died or got shot or got stabbed. There were no murders or attempted murders, basically, on one day 13 years ago. I mean, that's just to me like.

40:44Jordan Harbinger:We need to celebrate it.

40:45Jessica Wynn:Yikes. So catastrophe doesn't line up with the phase of the moon.

40:49Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, not at all. There's just no correlation to catastrophe and the moon's appearance.

40:54Jessica Wynn:I guess this is massive observational bias because you're only testing your theory once a month during full moons.

40:59Jordan Harbinger:Right. And this creates what psychologists call illusory correlation, seeing a relationship where none exists. So the relationships that might exist aren't as exciting as, well, traffic sucks, must be a full moon or he's a werewolf or whatever. You know, once again, our brains are pattern seeking machines.

41:18Jessica Wynn:And we'll connect dots that aren't even there in order to create those patterns. So illusory correlation is the technical term for our moon problem.

41:26Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, it's the term was coined by psychologists Chapman and Chapman in 1967. It's all extensively studied from full moon to lunar eclipse.

41:36Jessica Wynn:Do lunar eclipses have special effects? People get pretty excited about these.

41:40Jordan Harbinger:Oh, I mean, they're cool to look at for sure. So, you know, a lunar eclipse is when Earth blocks sunlight from reaching the moon. They happen about twice a year, and they're visible from large portions of Earth. They're visually dramatic, and it's like entertainment for humans, you know, but it's not physiological. But they're historically significant. Eclipses were terrifying to ancient cultures. They thought the sun and or moon was disappearing, and that was a really bad omen. And this fear persists in modern eclipse beliefs. Even though we understand the mechanics now, some believe lunar eclipses have even stronger effects than regular full moons.

42:19Jordan Harbinger:There's claims that are made about emotional intensity, spiritual significance, transformation. Some people claim health effects or behavioral changes, even impacts on pregnancy.

42:31Jessica Wynn:But the reality of a lunar eclipse is just what? Nothing?

42:35Jordan Harbinger:It's just Earth's shadow falling on the moon. The moon doesn't gain or lose power. It just receives less reflected sunlight temporarily. So there's no change in energy. There's no mechanism for behavioral change.

42:48Jessica Wynn:Still beautiful, though. I'll give it that.

42:49Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, incredibly. It's just not biologically relevant. So rare coincides with rare. If something unusual happens during an unusual eclipse, we connect them. Well, of course I felt weird. There was a blood moon or, you know, whatever. You know, this rarity just, it makes it more memorable, thereby strengthening confirmation bias. And so eclipses are beautiful astronomical events. They demonstrate orbital mechanics and give us perspective on our place in the universe, but they don't affect human behavior any more than regular full moons, which is to say, not at all. So enjoy them for what they are, but don't add mystical effects that just aren't there.

43:33Jordan Harbinger:This is all just another belief inherited from ancient medicine.

43:36Jessica Wynn:Got it.

43:37Jordan Harbinger:So the moon isn't causing chaos. Our brains are, which is arguably more impressive and a little more unsettling.

43:44Jessica Wynn:What's up with the blood moon? What is that? Because that sounds ominous. I mean, what's that all about?

43:49Jordan Harbinger:The blood moon is just a specific time of year when the eclipse happens and it makes it turn like a blood red. There has to be three bodies aligned during the full moon when the eclipse happens. So it's really specific things lined up in space.

44:08Jessica Wynn:Yeah, that's something straight out of a horror movie, though, right? Like the first blood moon and then everyone's racing to, I don't know, make sure that they can't complete the ritual. Turns out the moon is not pulling on your blood, your brain, or your vibes, which means you don't get to blame celestial objects for your terrible personality anymore. While we sit with that uncomfortable truth, let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Wayfair. Up until recently, our backyard not dialed in. We had our smoker sitting on the ground, which is probably really dangerous, actually, because it's rain.

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45:42Jessica Wynn:This episode is brought to you in part by Lufthansa. When people talk about travel, they usually focus on the destination, the hotel, the restaurants, all the stuff that happens after you land. But the flight is part of the experience, too. Just like a great hotel can shape an entire trip, so can a great flight. That's exactly what Lufthansa Allegris is built around. On a long-haul route, comfort matters more than people realize. If you're cramped, tired, and can't relax, you feel it the second you land. But when a flight is comfortable, you can actually stretch out, rest, work, or just enjoy the ride.

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46:32Jessica Wynn:More privacy, more comfort, more thoughtful design for the way people actually travel now. Visit Lufthansa.com and search for Allegra's to learn more. Lufthansa Allegris. All it takes is a yes. Limited availability on select routes. More routes coming soon. Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps the lights on around here. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable on the website at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Now, for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. All right, so do we have any relationship with the moon?

47:03Jessica Wynn:What does it mess with? Tides and what?

47:06Jordan Harbinger:Well, it's stuff we ignore. I mean, there is some irony here because we obsess over the moon's mystical influence. Meanwhile, we ignore or downplay factors that actually are affected, like barometric pressure. That's measurable. It's documented. It's significant. But it sounds less romantic, so it doesn't capture our imagination the same way.

47:27Jessica Wynn:How is that related to the moon?

47:29Jordan Harbinger:Well, the moon's gravity, it doesn't just cause bulges in the oceans. It has the same effect on the atmosphere. so it can slightly change barometric pressure. And air pressure changes have documented effects on human physiology. So barometric pressure is an underrated influence on us. Many people are sensitive to pressure changes, so drops in barometric pressure can trigger headaches and migraines. Arthritis sufferers often report increased pain before storms, and that's when the pressure drops. Or if you've ever broken a bone, you might have felt it. So those forces are thousands of times stronger than any lunar effect.

48:10Jordan Harbinger:Yet we don't often track barometric phases.

48:13Jessica Wynn:Yeah, I've never heard anyone discuss it that way.

48:15Jordan Harbinger:I know, maybe we should though, because some studies suggest low pressure systems are linked to fatigue and depression in some people. Pressure changes affect our sinus pressure, fluid balance, oxygen levels, even how our hair grows.

48:30Jessica Wynn:Huh, so things we actually experience in our bodies, wow.

48:33Jordan Harbinger:Right. And another place the moon's effect on us gets nuanced is with our sleep. So moonlight is bright enough to mess with melatonin. Even when it's a fraction of the sun's light, those photons hit your retina, they suppress melatonin, and they affect your sleep.

48:48Jessica Wynn:So it's not gravity or energy or vibes. That's an argument for those blue blockers. Everyone's like, oh, that doesn't do anything. And I'm like, I don't know, man, when I put sunglasses or blue blockers on, I freaking get so tired so fast. But if I'm looking at a bright screen or my phone, I'll stay awake till two o 'clock in the morning. No problem.

49:02Jordan Harbinger:Right. And it's all about the light. You know, it's the same thing that we mentioned affects the wildlife as well.

49:10Jessica Wynn:So the moon isn't controlling your sleep. Your curtains are controlling your sleep.

49:14Jordan Harbinger:Absolutely. How dark your room is and how much artificial light you're surrounded by, too. You know, streetlights, phones, screens. The moon just happens to be a natural light source. But it can affect sleep if it's coming through your window. This is not mystical. It's just light. And blackout curtains solve the problem. You don't need to cleanse your crystals. You need better window treatments.

49:37Jessica Wynn:So no mysticism. It's just light in your eyes. It's not lunar magic.

49:41Jordan Harbinger:And it's about coincidences. For a long time, I believed if a woman went off the grid, her menstrual cycle would link to the phases of the moon. But then you start to think about it, and the average menstrual cycle is about 28 days. the lunar cycle is about 29 and a half.

49:58Jessica Wynn:That feels meaningful.

49:59Jordan Harbinger:It does. The numbers feel close. There's intuitive appeal. And ancient cultures noticed the similarity and assumed a connection. But there's no evidence moonlight ever influenced ovulation. And large studies tracking real cycles show no synchronization. So if cycles were moon-linked, periods would occur at the same lunar phase. They don't. A large study was done in the 80s. There's no correlation between menstrual onset and lunar phase. In 2013, a study with detailed tracking of women's cycles was done. No relationship. A woman's cycle length, which can be anywhere between 21 to 35 days, makes consistent lunar sync impossible.

50:46Jessica Wynn:I'm still stuck on the light blockers thing. People wrote in. They were like, these are BS. These are BS. The eye strain stuff, the claims they make on a lot of the websites for it, those are not necessarily true. But if light suppresses melatonin, which it does, you can find science that shows that light from screens also does that. And usually I just feel the need to defend this because I recommended them to the whole show.

51:09Jordan Harbinger:I feel like if people tried them, there's no contest.

51:12Jessica Wynn:The primary use case for me is at night when I'm on my phone looking at something or if I'm working late and I, you know, I don't want to be, or I'm at an event and it's like, yeah, we're going to have a bar night and everyone's going to be out till 1030 or 11. And I'm like, I don't want to be full on blasted with that. I'm going to show up in blue blockers and kind of hang out for a bit or a late dinner. I'll hang out for a bit and then I'll go to bed and I fall asleep like right away because it doesn't take me all that time to have my eyes adjust. And it's just, I don't know. Look, there's scientific backing for that.

51:45Jessica Wynn:I found it specifically because I didn't want to recommend something that was bunk anyway.

51:49Jordan Harbinger:And on the opposite end, too, there's studies that say if you wear sunglasses too much, it's sort of the opposite thing because you're not getting natural light into your eyes. There's all kinds of thoughts on that, too. Like, don't always wear sunglasses.

52:04Jessica Wynn:No, just at night before I'm trying to do the wind down, go to sleep. All right. Anyway, so the similarity in cycle length that you just mentioned, man, that makes it feel true. the whole women's cycle moon cycle thing.

52:14Jordan Harbinger:I know, and some women report feeling more connected to the moon, which is valid. Sounds so science-y. As a personal experience. Right, but it's not a biological mechanism. If your period happens during a full moon once or twice, you remember it. It's just more confirmation bias.

52:33Jessica Wynn:Okay, so what about pets? There's something there, right? People swear their dogs and cats get weird about it. What's going on there?

52:39Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, that's a big one, but veterinary ERs show the same pattern as human ones. No lunar effect. We see the same variables affecting animal care professionals as human health care workers, though.

52:52Jessica Wynn:Dogs don't lose their mind either, then?

52:54Jordan Harbinger:No. If an animal is outside at night, brighter nights can change their activity. More light equals more movement. But again, that's light, not the lunar phase itself. Okay. There's no documented evidence that dogs, cats, or other domestic pets act differently during full moons. There's internet forums full of anecdotes, but plural of anecdote isn't data. So if you're in a windowless room, you're not going to see those same changes.

53:23Jessica Wynn:Right. No werewolves transforming under the moon.

53:26Jordan Harbinger:Of course not. But the origins of werewolves come from ancient European folklore, and it taps into a deep human fear of losing control, becoming bestial, something dangerous. The full moon makes symbolic sense as a trigger. You know, it's a bright night. Things that are usually hidden become visible. The moon itself appears to transform. So it feels logical that it might transform other things. But what started as this metaphor eventually became literal in folklore.

53:56Jessica Wynn:Don't tell me people still believe in werewolves, though. This is like the most comical. I looked.

54:01Jordan Harbinger:I looked. I did not come across anyone. But, you know, who knows? But when people say, oh, you get crazy during full moon, it's the same underlying belief. So something transforms when the moon is full. The mythology didn't disappear. We've just replaced werewolves with, I'm just more emotional or energetic or weird or whatever during full moons.

54:23Jessica Wynn:So what about farm animals, livestock? There's a lot of old farmer wisdom about livestock behavior during full moons.

54:30Jordan Harbinger:Yeah. And there's been scientific studies on the moon and livestock. There are, again, no documented effects on cattle, horses, sheep, chickens, egg production, breeding success, you know, feeding behavior, all of it. None show lunar patterns when properly studied. And lunar phase, independent of visibility, does not affect animal behavior. So for example, a full moon on a cloudy night versus a clear night, the light matters, not the phase itself.

55:02Jessica Wynn:So if we're talking a little bit of sunlight, does the change of moonlight effect plan? Should we be lunar gardening? You remember the old farmer's almanac? It's got all these strong feelings about planting by the moon.

55:14Jordan Harbinger:Right. I mean, it's a very old tradition that goes back thousands of years across multiple cultures to plant above ground crops during waxing moons, root crops during waning moons. The idea being that the moon gravity will move water and soil like tides. Evidence of this is really mixed, but I found when reputable researchers control for temperature, moisture, and soil conditions, lunar effects totally disappear.

55:43Jessica Wynn:Okay, so it's the weather, not the moon. Surprise, surprise.

55:46Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, right, right. Who knew? Controlled studies comparing plants grown by lunar calendar versus random planting show no difference in germination rates, growth rates, or even yields.

55:58Jessica Wynn:So why does the tradition persist at all? By the way, do they still put out the farmer's almanac? Do we know?

56:03Jordan Harbinger:They just announced the 2026 edition will be its last.

56:07Jessica Wynn:I know, kind of sad. Slow demand for nonsense. Woo-woo farming technology.

56:13Jordan Harbinger:But it's just all based on tradition, you know. Grandpa did it this way and had good harvests. And planting times in almanacs often coincide with good weather patterns for specific regions. It's just more confirmation bias. But when lunar planting, you know, quote unquote works, it's remembered. Failures are attributed to other factors. So many farmers continue traditions, even while understanding they're not mechanistic. So the harm is minimal, though. If it encourages people to garden, it's not causing real problems. There's a whole biodynamic farming movement, which takes lunar agriculture even further with additional mystical elements.

56:53Jordan Harbinger:It has no scientific support, but it's really popular among some organic farmers. I mean, that said, if lunar gardening is getting people outside, touching plants, I mean, I think it's mostly harmless as long as we don't pretend it's physics or biology. It's just interesting to see how pre-scientific traditions get repackaged as alternative wisdom.

57:17Jessica Wynn:Alternative wisdom, like crystal charging in moonlight and the moon water trends I see all over social media. Social media is deep into this.

57:25Jordan Harbinger:Oh, so deep. lunar hair cutting is a big one these days have you seen this no obviously not the hashtag has over like a billion views god so the idea is that you cut your hair during a new moon for growth a full moon for strength and a waning moon to slow growth so the thing is our hair growth is controlled by genetics, our hormones, our diet. The moon has zero effect, but some salons now charge more for a nighttime full moon cut.

58:02Jessica Wynn:Okay. You know, I've got to ask, what if I want the hair on my head to grow more, but I want the hair elsewhere to stay short? Do I wax during a waning moon, but I go to my barber during a new moon? What's going on here?

58:16Jordan Harbinger:Oh, Jordan, I mean, your schedule's pretty complicated already, but yeah, sure. Throw moon waxes on your calendar. I need to see Coco on Tuesday.

58:25Jessica Wynn:You don't understand. It's important.

58:28Jordan Harbinger:They're charging you a thousand dollars.

58:30Jessica Wynn:I'm just going to end up getting banned from European Wax Center. That's what's going to happen. Sir, we've asked you not to come in when you don't have an appointment. You don't get it. It's a waxing gibbous. I need this shit ripped out now. Oh, man. All right. I feel I, you know, I just don't feel bad for whoever's paying for this stuff. So to be clear, all the crystal moon charging stuff is clearly not. I think we've done crystals. I mean, it's nonsense. Yeah.

58:55Jordan Harbinger:Yeah. I mean, as far as crystals go, it's all nonsense, of course. Crystals don't absorb lunar energy or get cleansed by moonlight. It's just not how it works. No mechanism exists for the moon to charge objects with energy. But if that kind of ritual is good for you spiritually, fine. Just don't call it science. Same with charging water under the full moon, which has become a thing. Like, social media has amplified these practices enormously.

59:27Jessica Wynn:Oh, yeah. Instagram, TikTok, full of moon water tutorials.

59:31Jordan Harbinger:I mean, moon water? That's literally just water that sat outside.

59:36Jessica Wynn:Right. So most water.

59:37Jordan Harbinger:Most water. I've seen the claims that full moon water has special properties or healing energy. It doesn't.

59:44Jessica Wynn:Right.

59:45Jordan Harbinger:It doesn't gain special molecular structure or properties. In fact, in science, moon water is a real term, but it refers to ice or molecules on the moon that provide evidence water once existed there.

59:58Jessica Wynn:Some people say a moon water event is a meaningful ritual and that it helps them feel centered. What do you think about that?

1:00:03Jordan Harbinger:That's valid if that's how that makes you feel. But don't confuse that with a scientific physical claim. You know, if anyone says moon water cures illness, run. That's misinformation.

1:00:16Jessica Wynn:Sure.

1:00:16Jordan Harbinger:When mystical explanations replace physical understanding, that creates scientific illiteracy. And that can be expensive. People sell moon charged products at premium prices.

1:00:29Jessica Wynn:People are buying pre-charged by the moon products. That's hilarious.

1:00:33Jordan Harbinger:It's a whole category on Etsy. Oh, my God. Water, crystals, oils, sprays, all infused with lunar energy during specific moon phases for various rituals. There's one product that has a warning to avoid charging certain crystals in moonlight. I would love to know what they think is going to happen if you do.

1:00:54Jessica Wynn:Gosh, sounds legit. Nothing speaks cosmic truth like an Etsy listing. Am I right?

1:01:00Jordan Harbinger:What do you do? I'm an astrophysicist. Okay, I'm a Gemini.

1:01:08Jessica Wynn:Amazing. That's from, like, The Bachelor Australia or something. I hope it's staged and that she has a great sense of humor, but, you know.

1:01:16Jordan Harbinger:I feel like that was genuine.

1:01:18Jessica Wynn:She probably sells moon-charged crystals on Etsy for a living, yeah.

1:01:21Jordan Harbinger:Definitely. I mean, you can have meaningful rituals without making false scientific claims. Pre-packaged spiritual practices, they appeal to people seeking meaning, and that's a lot of people. So moon beliefs have evolved, but they haven't disappeared. You know, we've gone from the moon causes lunacy to the moon charges my crystals. It's a different language, but it's the same fundamental misunderstanding of lunar influence. It just shows how pseudoscience adapts to cultural trends. The core error is still attributing properties to the moon that it doesn't have.

1:01:59Jessica Wynn:Debunking all this, it makes me worry that it's taking away some of the magic. People love the idea of being connected to the cosmos. I mean, even before you're like, oh, we surveyed women and they reported feeling connected to the moon. Like, OK, fine.

1:02:12Jordan Harbinger:We are connected to the cosmos. Just we take it to a strange place, you know. Take it too far.

1:02:18Jessica Wynn:Yeah.

1:02:18Jordan Harbinger:But you can keep wondering without inventing fake mechanisms. the complex interplay of weather, light, biology, and social factors is fascinating. So understanding actual causes is more empowering than blaming the moon. You can still love the moon, just love it for what it is.

1:02:37Jessica Wynn:It's just so ingrained in us that the moon is doing a lot more than it actually is.

1:02:41Jordan Harbinger:I know, yeah, and it just all stems from ancient peoples. They were observant and intelligent, but they just lacked the tools to test properly. So lunar effects were a reasonable hypothesis. What's less reasonable is maintaining these beliefs in the age of large-scale data analysis.

1:03:00Jessica Wynn:But considering it's been doing the quiet work of stabilizing Earth for billions of years, it's still amazing to gaze at the moon and appreciate its beauty.

1:03:07Jordan Harbinger:Absolutely. I love it. I literally had my telescope out the other night. It's a fascinating object. Just thinking about the photons that bounced off the moon's surface and traveled all the way to your eyes is incredible. The tides it creates across our oceans, the way it stabilized Earth long enough for life to exist. I mean, it's been lighting up nights for our entire history. Ancient cultures tracked it, they navigated by it, and scheduled their lives around it. Astronauts walked on it. All of that is real, and all of that is enough. You don't need to add magical properties to make it special.

1:03:44Jordan Harbinger:Because the moon does extraordinary things, just not to your personality.

1:03:48Jessica Wynn:So the next time someone says, must be a full moon when something weird happens, you can smile, you can nod. And remember, it's not the moon. The moon is just showing up on time every time. The chaos part is on us, which honestly is way more interesting than blaming a rock in space. So the moon, it'll still be up there tonight, silent, predictable, and completely innocent, unlike many of us. Thanks, Jess. I'm over the moon after this episode. I really appreciate that. Thank you so much. Thank you all for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday, directly to me, Jordan at JordanHarbinger.com.

1:04:23Jessica Wynn:Advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show, all at JordanHarbinger.com slash deals. I'm at JordanHarbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Jessica on her sub stacks between the lines and where shadows linger. We'll link to those in the show notes as well. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Tata Sadlowskis, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. And yeah, I might be a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Of course, we try to get everything as right as we can in these episodes.

1:04:53Jessica Wynn:Not everything is gospel, though, even if it is fact-checked. So consult a qualified professional before applying anything you hear on the show, especially if it's about your health and well-being. Be careful. Don't charge those crystals in moonlight if they say not to. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge we doled out today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time.

1:05:21Jessica Wynn:You probably don't picture drug cartel operations running through rural America, but that's exactly why they're so hard to stop. Mariana Van Zeller breaks down how these networks hide in plain sight using everyday systems and small town blind spots to stay one step ahead. I've been covering the cartel for many years now. And I sort of wanted to do a story about cartel presence in the U.S. And once we started researching it, I realized that actually the story should be about all the things that we don't know about cartel presence in the U.S., including the fact that they're in small-town America.

1:05:52Jessica Wynn:So one of our first shoots for that episode was in Georgia. And we started with a murder investigation of this woman who was tortured, and they cut off her fingers and then eventually killed her. And she was killed by the cartel. and it was in the middle of nowhere in Georgia. And then we followed the investigation and realized that they're everywhere and particularly like to operate in small-town America. Less law enforcement, easier to hide the drugs and have their distribution networks. You know what's so interesting about that story is that in order to get access to the cartel in the U.S., we actually had to go down to Mexico and gain permission and have them say yes.

1:06:31Jessica Wynn:Because a lot of these groups have people that work for them in the U.S. Obviously the U.S. is the end goal where they're sending their drugs. And so eventually he said, OK, we've got you. And it was all set up and we were supposed to meet them in Minnesota. We get there and then we waited and waited and waited for days. I'm like, I never showed up. I want people to see many of these traffickers. Again, we do not condone what they do. It's difficult to even empathize. But the majority of the people that I talk to are people just like you and me that don't have the opportunities or the luck that we have.

1:07:00Jessica Wynn:I try to always do my job as a journalist, which is hold people accountable. If you want to hear how cartels hide in plain sight, check out episode 1302 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

1:07:33Jessica Wynn:real-world consequences for the United States. The show's hosted by Mike Baker, a veteran of the CIA with decades of firsthand experience, so you're getting smart analysis from somebody who's been inside the system. You get straightforward context to help you understand what's happening and why it matters. Follow The President's Daily Brief wherever you get your podcasts, and stay ahead of the curve.

1:08:03Jessica Wynn:Too much. We debate about food, deep dish, tavern style, who's got the best beef. We yell across rooms, across blocks, across generations. Yes, nice earrings, Grammy. And now we're doing it on our phones, too. Video calls from the L train, group chats that never shut up. Neighbors texting you the score before your TV catches up. Get a load of this guy. Ketchup. On a dog. Yeah, we've got thoughts. Because nothing here gets built without conversation. Nothing moves without connection. So if you think you know AT &T, it might be time to rethink that because their network has improved like a lot, which means Chicagoans can keep speaking their mind with the top rated fiber internet in the city.

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1:09:16Jessica Wynn:Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way. Recently, they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think, the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested and what makes people like you or not. The through line is always the same. Smart ideas you can actually use in real life. Something You Should Know has been featured in Apple's shows we love and it's got thousands of five-star reviews because it's consistently interesting. So if you want another show that scratches that I want to understand how people in the world really work itch, search for Something You Should Know wherever you get your podcasts.

1:09:51Jessica Wynn:Look for the bright yellow light bulb and start listening. You can thank me later.