1344: Avocados | Skeptical Sunday

11:18Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, right. And the cartels, they operate like multinational corporations. So they slide into new markets. They exploit weak institutions and they use violence as a business tool. Right. So when U.S. policy cracked down on narco trafficking, cartels just diversified and avocados were safer than drugs and nearly as profitable.

11:40Jessica Wynn:That is a very different Scarface movie. Michelle Pfeiffer in the jacuzzi, guacamole smeared all over her face. Oh, God.

11:49Jordan Harbinger:I'd like to think she could pull that off.

11:51Jessica Wynn:Yeah, a little bit on the nose, you know, just like a little dangler. I would hate to be supporting drug cartels by consuming avocados. Maybe I should stop buying cocaine. I don't know. What do you think that would balance everything out?

12:04Jordan Harbinger:That just fixes the problem you're having. That's right, yeah. You and your blow. I don't know. It might be just as bad as you and your green. I'm not sure.

12:12Jessica Wynn:Yeah, I don't smuggle cocaine anymore. I smuggle that green gold.

12:15Jordan Harbinger:Oh, gross. But so Los Zetas were the first cartel to extort producers in the late 90s. Today, it's the Jalisco New Generation cartel, and there have been several in between. So I'm not exactly sure how cartel territory works, but I do know the cartels developed branding strategies controlling which fruit left Michoacan, ensuring every crate was taxed.

12:46Jessica Wynn:Nobody saw that one coming from deregulated trade. So the war on drugs pushed cartels into avocados. Wow. I'm guessing no one pictured that ending with extortion rackets in Michoacan and other places. Definitely not.

12:58Jordan Harbinger:But Michoacan quickly became the center of avocado production. And the same drug cartels that once trafficked all your cocaine, they saw a new opportunity. And these cartels aren't addicted to drugs. They're addicted to the power, the money. So who cares what they're actually trafficking? Right. And so substitute any product you want. Cartels treat violence as a form of power, not just a means to money, but just an end in itself. And avocados are part of a broader trend economists call narco agriculture, where cartels exploit these legal crops just like they once exploited cocaine or heroin.

13:40Jessica Wynn:La boo boo's, heroin, avocado, as long as I'm making a profit. So the commodity is now legal. That's kind of impressive for a change, right? They just go into legal stuff. I mean, I guess they're going into it in an illegal way.

13:53Jordan Harbinger:It could be upstanding farmers, but I guess that's boring. And this pays really well because they know how to control the market. And by the mid 2000s, cartels demanded farmers pay protection fees. So packers and exporters are shaken down. Trucks get taxed at roadblocks. Cartels clear pine forests, then legalize the land through bribery. Corruption and intimidation just permeate every level of the supply chain.

14:23Jessica Wynn:And what, if you don't pay, you get a bad Yelp review written in bullets, I guess?

14:27Jordan Harbinger:I mean, yeah, I mean, refusal to pay the cartels often means kidnapping, assault, or worse.

14:33Jessica Wynn:Yeah, so every time Americans dip into guac at a Super Bowl party, Michoacan sees a spike in homicides. Damn, this is crazy.

14:40Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, I mean, that might not be an exaggeration. So farmers describe waking up to death threats carved into their avocado trees or cartel members knocking on their door demanding, quote unquote, rent for the land that their family has farmed for generations.

14:57Jessica Wynn:So if you're a farmer in Michoacan, what happens if you just say, screw it, I'm out of here?

15:01Jordan Harbinger:Well, that's exactly what a lot of people do. So entire indigenous groups have been forced off their land by cartels. Families leave because it's too dangerous. One small avocado grower told reporters he had to sell his orchards and move after refusing to pay. Others don't get that chance. They're kidnapped or killed. Locals call them blood avocados.

15:26Jessica Wynn:Blood avocados sounds like something from a marketing pitch meeting just gone very wrong. I know.

15:31Jordan Harbinger:Well, but it is like a blood diamond in some ways. Avocados look beautiful and harmless to the consumer, but hide these stories of violence, extortion and human suffering. You know, with diamonds, it was rebel militants in West Africa. With avocados, it's cartels in Mexico. It's like different commodities, same mechanics.

15:53Jessica Wynn:Well, nobody ever mentions cartel violence when it comes to avocados. They just complain when they're not perfectly ripe or whatever.

15:59Jordan Harbinger:That's the problem. The violence is invisible to the consumer. This is like when we discussed bananas in episode number 1125 and we talked about coffee in episode 1185. It's just the further away from home our food comes, the less chance we are thinking of its origins and impact, which is ironic because the avocado boom has become another push factor for migration. So families who farmed corn or beans, they get caught in the crossfire of cartel taxes, land grabs and fights over water. And when their orchards are stolen or their water runs out, they leave. And reports show this is a direct line between U.S.

16:46Jordan Harbinger:avocado demand and migration pressures at our border.

16:50Jessica Wynn:How can I think about my food that way? The irony is staggering. Our demand feels the displacement that sends people north and it's kind of a loop or a cycle. And somehow, despite all of that, this industry, it keeps on growing. Yeah.

17:01Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, that's the paradox. I mean, normally organized crime chokes business. But in Michoacan, avocado production expanded alongside the violence. So this U.S. obsession with the superfood fueled demand no matter what. And between 2016 and 2021, as avocado exports soared, the homicide rate in Michoacan more than doubled. Farmers, journalists and activists were all targeted. So there's clear evidence the Mexican avocado market's exponential growth has been accompanied by these rising levels of violence from the avocado mafia.

17:45Jessica Wynn:The avocado mafia sounds like something my kids would watch on YouTube. Cute little animated avocados.

17:53Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, not that cute, though. I mean, and it's not just killings. Farmers have been kidnapped, tortured, intimidated, journalists and activists silenced. And once cartels realized how lucrative avocados were, they began treating them like any other controlled market. And the people who suffered most are the legal producers. Their profits just siphoned off by cartels.

18:20Jessica Wynn:Hold on. So let's talk specifics. How does this actually work? How do cartels have the ability to continue this extortion racket for so long?

18:28Jordan Harbinger:It's because it's working. So U.S. imports smoothed out the volatility. Michoacan became the avocado capital of the world, producing a third of global supply. That's about two and a half billion pounds of avocados per year.

18:46Jessica Wynn:Wow. With all this violence in cartel taxed shipments, shouldn't avocados be ridiculously expensive? Shouldn't they be like 20 bucks each? Yeah.

18:54Jordan Harbinger:I mean, the violence is baked into the price. So the American consumer benefits from cheap avocados precisely because the risks and costs are pushed on to the farmers and workers in Mexico. That's why economists call it a perverse system. The bloodier it gets down there, the more stable and affordable it looks up here.

19:16Jessica Wynn:We interrupt this regularly scheduled moral crisis to remind you that not everything green is tainted by violence. This ad break right here, completely cartel free. No middlemen with machetes, no extortion taxes, just us, you, and the slow realization that brunch might be bloodier than Breaking Bad. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by SimpliSafe. I would turn my house into Fort Knox if Jen would let me moat, drawbridge, guy and chain mail on the front porch. Subtle, not really. Practical for a school drop-off. Also no. So instead, I choose SimpliSafe to secure my home and family because most traditional security systems alert you after a break-in has already started and it's kind of too late by then.

19:54Jessica Wynn:SimpliSafe is built to help stop crime before it starts. Using the Outdoor Camera Series 2 and advanced AI alerts, SimpliSafe's U.S.-based live agents can identify threats on your property and help deter them before an intruder even gets inside. SimpliSafe gives us real peace of mind without turning the house into some kind of bunker. Setup is easy. The system is simple to use. There are no long-term contracts because I want security, not a second mortgage made out of paperwork. Plus, monitoring and deterrence plans start at around a dollar a day. We want you to experience the same peace of mind we do.

20:24Jessica Wynn:Right now, you can get 50 % off your new system by visiting simplysafe.com slash jordan. That's half off at simplysafe.com slash jordan. There's no safe like Simply Safe. This episode is also sponsored by the perfect jean. There are jeans you wear because they look good and jeans you wear because they're comfortable. Historically, those have been two separate pairs of jeans. That's why we like the perfect jean, aptly named. They look sharp, classic denim. They feel way closer to sweats, though. You can sit, bend, move around, chase kids, sit through a long dinner, survive a graduation ceremony in a folding chair, all without silently negotiating with your waistband.

20:57Jessica Wynn:And they actually fit real bodies, not a catalog model who doesn't eat carbs kind of body, a real body. The Perfect Gene has weights from 26 to 52, lengths from 26 to 38, multiple fits, tons of washes. You can find the pair that works for you without immediately budgeting for a tailor. They're comfortable right out of the box. They hold their shape. They don't have that stiff, crunchy denim feeling that makes you question the life choices that led to the pants in the first place. Our listeners get 15 % off their first order plus free shipping at theperfectgene.nyc or Google the perfect gene and use code Jordan Harbinger 15 for 15 % off.

21:30Jessica Wynn:Again, our listeners get 15 % off their first order plus free shipping at theperfectgene.nyc or Google the perfect gene and use code Jordan Harbinger 15 for 15 % off. Don't forget about our newsletter, We Bit Wiser. Comes out just about every Wednesday. Very practical. It's a two-minute read, something you can apply right away that will improve your psychology, your relationships. Usually it's wisdom from the episodes here on the show. Jordan Harbinger dot com slash news is where you can find it. Now back to Skeptical Sunday. So the next time I see a product of Mexico sticker on avocados, what it really means is approved by the cartel.

22:09Jessica Wynn:Pass the chips. I'm depressed over here.

22:11Jordan Harbinger:I know. I know. And groups Chiefs like Los Caballeros Templarios and Los Viagras made avocado extortion a core business model. So in 2019, USDA inspectors were in Michoacan to oversee exports to the U.S. And after canceling certification of an avocado farm, the 60 inspectors were robbed at gunpoint by the cartel called Los Viagras.

22:42Jessica Wynn:Los Viagras? That's the actual name of the gang? Why is that not scary?

22:46Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, it is. It's spelled like Viagra. They styled their hair straight up with gel, hence the name. Seriously, their hair has boners or whatever. It's just not a scary gang rep.

22:59Jessica Wynn:Like, oh no, the hair boners are coming. I know, but they're deadly serious. But how did the USDA respond to this assault of their inspectors? What did we do here?

23:09Jordan Harbinger:We, or they, wrote a strongly worded letter and published it.

23:15Jessica Wynn:The pen is mightier than the avocado.

23:17Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, I don't think so. But Los Viagras and their rival cartel Jalisco have violent clashes over broader issues with cartel activity, but it often affects the avocado industry. So when the letter threatened to kill the region's most profitable industry, it didn't really matter. And significant security incidents are often reported, including the assault and kidnapping of two USDA inspectors in June of 2024 while actively inspecting avocados. And all the U.S. did in response was suspend inspections for a week. But then they resumed.

23:58Jessica Wynn:That's crazy. And I assume it's because it hurts distributors domestically, consumers domestically, so they don't want to halt the avocado trade.

24:05Jordan Harbinger:Yeah. And they only give little slaps on the wrist. And in 2022, inspections were halted after a U.S. inspector received death threats that also targeted his family. But the inspections come back. They always continue.

24:19Jessica Wynn:I just wouldn't have thought it was that dangerous to work for the USDA. I thought the most dangerous thing they did was go to slaughterhouses, which are probably really gross and possibly also dangerous. But what exactly do they do besides that to put themselves at such risk? It just you would think inspecting avocados would be like more chill. The chillest, I know.

24:37Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, it's not. And every single avocado that enters the United States has to be certified by inspectors from the U.S. Department of Agriculture. And these inspectors are on the ground in Michoacan and other avocado regions.

24:53Jessica Wynn:Guacamole gatekeepers.

24:54Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, but their job's limited. So their mandate is pest and disease prevention. They can reject a shipment if they find just one fruit fly, but they have no authority to block an avocado that's tied to illegal land or cartel extortion.

25:12Jessica Wynn:It's kind of like they're the TSA of fruit.

25:14Jordan Harbinger:Pretty much. And in 2024, after another round of threats, the U.S. actually handed inspection authority back to the Mexican government.

25:25Jessica Wynn:Oh, that's a great idea. Hey, they threatened us. Just let them do it now.

25:29Jordan Harbinger:Oh, OK. Then we'll just leave. Maybe they had trouble getting inspectors down there. I don't know. But critics warned that, hey, this is going to weaken oversight because now the people responsible for policing exports are the same ones vulnerable to cartel intimidation. But that's what's happening as of today.

25:49Jessica Wynn:Yeah, this is like saying, hey, we can't fight this drug war. We're going to let the Mexican police do it. It's like, you mean the guys that literally help smuggle drugs for the cartels because otherwise their whole family will get killed? Yeah, great idea. It's the same. Yes, this is insane. So this is not an improvement for the consumer. Are any trade agreements that we have in place doing any better?

26:09Jordan Harbinger:Well, NAFTA, which is now known as the USMCA, United States, Mexico, Canada agreement, it failed to build strong enforcement mechanisms against the cartels. So agreements like these are designed to facilitate trade, not regulate the violence or corruption behind it.

26:28Jessica Wynn:So the system is built to protect us from pests, not to protect Mexican farmers. for example.

26:33Jordan Harbinger:Right, not to protect anyone involved. Yeah. The human rights cost is enormous. So workers get assaulted, families are displaced, inspectors harassed, and activists are silenced.

26:45Jessica Wynn:Mexico is already one of the deadliest countries for journalists, from what I know.

26:49Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, for sure. And some journalists who try to cover these blood avocados were killed in February 2021. So there was a Spanish journalist and his cameraman, and they were ambushed and killed while filming a documentary about the illegal avocado trade.

27:06Jessica Wynn:Dang. So they were murdered for trying to tell this story, basically the one we're telling right now.

27:10Jordan Harbinger:Yeah.

27:11Jessica Wynn:So stay inside.

27:13Jordan Harbinger:But it's not isolated. Just last October, two more journalists reporting on blood avocados were killed in separate incidents in 24 hours. So covering avocados in Mexico, it's life-threatening.

27:27Jessica Wynn:Yikes. I mean, should we be worried here at Skeptical Sunday? Because that's terrible.

27:32Jordan Harbinger:I think we're okay. Just let's not advertise this when we go to Mexico.

27:36Jessica Wynn:Yeah. Wow. That's really sad.

27:39Jordan Harbinger:I know. But covering cartel extortion and corruption tied to avocados, it puts reporters directly in the line of fire. So local journalists in Michoacan are constantly threatened into silence. Some newspapers simply don't cover cartel activity anymore because it's just too dangerous.

27:59Jessica Wynn:Yeah, censorship by murder. And we don't hear about it because the very people who would tell us are being killed for trying to tell us.

28:06Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, exactly. And consumers abroad see avocados as this clean, healthy and Instagrammable thing because the violent reality, it's literally hidden at the source.

28:18Jessica Wynn:We basically just see the brunch side of the story and the real stories can't be told. Do we know what it's like for the people who actually grow the fruit, the farmers? I mean, I have no idea what farming avocados entails.

28:29Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, it's brutal. I mean, in Michuacan, the cartels don't just skim profits. They control land. They're displacing indigenous communities. And they sometimes force people to work orchards at gunpoint. So farmers live in constant fear. And for many small farmers, it's just unbearable. You know, some communities even formed armed self-defense groups, the auto defenses, to protect their orchards.

28:57Jessica Wynn:So we're talking about farmers, moms and dads literally picking up rifles to defend their avocado orchards from the drug cartel so that they're not enslaved by them.

29:06Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, yeah. And because the government can't or won't protect them, some towns fight back. So local communities have literally taken up arms to defend their forests, water and themselves. When cartels and big avocado interests try to illegally encroach on land, militias try to defend that land.

29:28Jessica Wynn:Has that made a difference at all?

29:29Jordan Harbinger:In Chiron, Mexico, the entire community rose up in 2011. They kicked out the cartels and the corrupt officials who protected them. They had to set up barricades, had armed patrols, and governed themselves. They banned commercial avocado planting and communal forests. They started reforestation and water filtration systems. But it's really dangerous for them. It's one of the few places in Michoacan where the cartels don't run the avocado trade, but they're constantly on alert, you know?

30:04Jessica Wynn:Sure. Yeah, that's a tough town. This is crazy. This is like the Wild West. There's one enclave where the cartels are like, it's too dangerous because they actually fight back and they just enslave everyone else. But yeah, they're kind of maybe waiting for their opportunity to slide back in there and scare everybody and kill a bunch of people. That's just nuts.

30:22Jordan Harbinger:It is. And they're just under constant threat of fires, shootouts, turf wars over their land and water. Chayron's an exception, though. In some other towns, militias manage to drive the cartels out for a while, but it rarely lasts. And most of these auto defenses, they start as self-defense groups. But over time, some get corrupted or even morphed into cartels themselves. It's this just endless cycle of violence.

30:53Jessica Wynn:Right. Imagine your hometown turning into a vigilante war zone over fruit. What the heck, man?

30:58Jordan Harbinger:I know. And the exploitation doesn't stop at violence. You know, even outside cartel areas, avocado labor is seasonal and it's unstable. So workers deal with low pay, irregular hours and almost no bargaining power. In some places, wages are so low they can't afford basic food costs. And when workers try to organize, companies often block their right to unionize.

31:27Jessica Wynn:So the people picking our avocados can't even afford a side of guac themselves. That's just nuts. That sucks, man. It's easy to picture an avocado farm. You know, it's a place of sunshine and trees and people lovingly hand massaging guacamole into existence. But it's like a slave labor, which is like coffee, but worse.

31:42Jordan Harbinger:I mean, in California, workers are protected and they have access to shade and sanitation and safety gear. But it is hard work with long hours, no matter where you're doing it. Yeah. In Mexico and Central America, it's a different story because of the cartels. Even child labor is still common in many regions. And often basic needs like clean drinking water and bathrooms are missing.

32:08Jessica Wynn:That is not the brand image the avocado industry is going for. It's a fruit-based crime thriller. But avocados weren't always this popular, were they? I mean, I feel like in my lifetime, things really started to get amped up.

32:20Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, it was decades of strategic marketing. So California Grower Associations, later what's called the California Avocado Commission, they invested heavily in advertising. And they pushed the idea that avocados weren't fatty junk, but full of healthy fats and vitamins. And for the record, avocados also have saturated fats. So this reputation of it's a healthy fat, it's really a lot of good marketing. I mean, yes, they have unsaturated fats, too, but it's not this perfect side dish, you know. So low-fat diets made Americans fear anything with fat. But the industry funded studies and PR campaigns to highlight just the healthy fats of avocados.

33:08Jessica Wynn:Selling science. So they rebranded from suspiciously oily fruit as, you know, heart-healthy heroes. Right.

33:14Jordan Harbinger:Yeah. I mean, PR firms got involved and they rolled out mascots like Mr. Ripe Guy, this cool California avocado dude with sunglasses. And they even staged contests to find Ms. Ripe. In 1995, they really put out single California avocado personal ads. Do you remember this?

33:38Jessica Wynn:So like a personal ad in the dating ads in newspapers, and it was like single California avocado looking for. Yeah, absolutely. How quirky. I don't remember those ads at all, maybe because they didn't grow up in California. But we did have the California Raisins, and they would sing and dance like oldies or whatever.

33:54Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, the Mr. Ripe Guy mascot, he had the exact same vibe. But I guess maybe he didn't really take off like the Raisins did.

34:01Jessica Wynn:He didn't have a hit record. Yeah.

34:03Jordan Harbinger:I know. Yeah, maybe he wasn't a good guitar player or something. And they also marketed versatility. So avocados in salads, in sandwiches, in dips, they tied the fruit to culture with promotions around Cinco de Mayo. And the turning point in avocado popularity was when guacamole got tied to football culture and the Super Bowl. Suddenly there were recipe contests and guac was this game day staple. And all those campaigns made avocados feel like part of an American tradition.

34:39Jessica Wynn:It worked, man. Guacamole is basically it's like a required food group at every party, especially Super Bowls and stuff like that.

34:46Jordan Harbinger:I know. And now we're hooked. By 2003, the Haas Avocado Board was created to fund research and nationwide promotions. That's why avocados became one of the most successfully marketed foods of the last century, even shadowed by the destruction of people and land.

35:06Jessica Wynn:Is the industry really also destroying the land, though?

35:09Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, it is. It is. Deforestation is staggering. So between 2001 and 2018, Michoacan lost 700 ,000 acres, which that's about 40 ,000 acres each year. Yeah. And 80 percent of avocado orchards were planted illegally in previously native forests that were later legalized through cartel corruption. So it's just deforestation on a massive scale.

35:38Jessica Wynn:And that's all avocado farming specifically?

35:41Jordan Harbinger:Yes, just avocado farming. Wow. And in Michoacan, so what they do is forests are cleared illegally. Then that land is converted to avocado orchards without government authorization. So the deforestation, it's stealth. It's hidden under the guise of what they call land use change.

36:01Jessica Wynn:Is there more to it than just trees coming down so different trees can go up, though? I mean, it sucks, but isn't it just like replacing one tree with another?

36:09Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, I mean, that would be nice, but it's much more. So when forests in Michoacan or Jalisco or wherever are cleared for avocado orchards, it's not just the trees that disappear. You lose biodiversity.

36:22Jessica Wynn:Sure, yeah, that makes sense.

36:23Jordan Harbinger:And that region, it's critical habitat for migratory birds, even monarch butterflies on their annual journey, and pollinators that local farming depends on. So once the forest is gone, those ecosystems collapse.

36:38Jessica Wynn:I see. So our extra avocado on our burritos is bulldozing out monarchs.

36:44Jordan Harbinger:Yeah.

36:45Jessica Wynn:Insert joke about how that's the butterfly effect. I mean, that's really awful, though, because so there. Yeah, this is like what happens in the Amazon. We have this beautiful rainforest, but people are like, yeah, but I need places for my cows because otherwise I'm going to be poor. And so they burn it and then the cows graze and they're like, I actually need more land now. So there's just constantly burning, slashing and burning rainforest.

37:07Jordan Harbinger:Right. In some cases, they do actually burn them out. Farmers and cartels are accused of doing exactly that, deliberately setting forest fires. And then the land gets classified as degraded from fire and then it can legally be reclassified for agriculture. So that loophole turns arson into a business strategy. Oh, I see.

37:30Jessica Wynn:That's insane. So you commit arson, you basically get a break on buying your land. Yeah. This kind of reminds me of a joke I heard the other day. So two retired businessmen meet at a beach resort. And the first guy says, I had a hotel and it burned down. And I rather than rebuilding, I just took the insurance money and I retired here. And the other guy says, yeah, similar story with me. A hurricane came, flooded my beachfront resort and just washed the whole thing away. And instead of rebuilding that, I took the insurance money and I retired here. And the first guy goes, huh, how do you start a hurricane?

38:04Jordan Harbinger:That's hilarious. I mean, that's not far from the truth, though.

38:07Jessica Wynn:Yeah. At some point, I got to ask, where is the I mean, this is probably a dumb question, but where's the Mexican government and all this? Who's in charge?

38:15Jordan Harbinger:I mean, in many cases, the cartels are. So Mexican officials at the local level, like Like mayors, police chiefs, even military units are all complicit. Some are bribed to look the other way. Others are just directly involved. And corruption doesn't seem to be the exception. It's just part of the system.

38:35Jessica Wynn:So my avocados are in the hands of who's got the most guns and cash.

38:41Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, they've got you by the alligator pears, Jordan. Yeah. And the U.S. knows this, though.

38:46Jessica Wynn:While you're rethinking brunch and Googling ethical guacamole, let's pause for something less morally complicated, because unlike the avocado trade, this show isn't funded by narcos or deforestation. Just regular schmoes with Wi-Fi and questionable spending habits. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by ZipRecruiter. Hiring is a challenge because on paper, everybody looks enthusiastic. Every candidate is, quote, excited, passionate, thrilled for the opportunity, which is great, except sometimes that energy disappears the second they actually have to show up and do the job. According to CNBC, nearly half of hiring managers say a candidate's enthusiasm about the job is the most important factor when considering them for a role.

39:26Jessica Wynn:Of course, that makes sense. Skills matter, but you also want a person who actually wants to be there. But just how can you separate the candidates who are really excited about your opportunity from the ones that are just meh? ZipRecruiter. They got a new feature that quickly lets you see the most interested qualified candidates first, so you meet the right people faster. Their smart matching technology connects you with qualified candidates instantly and candidates can tell you in their own words why they're interested in your job. Use ZipRecruiter and find enthusiastic talent fast. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day.

39:57Jessica Wynn:And now you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Jordan. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash Jordan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. This episode is also sponsored by FlyKit. We're getting ready for a trip to Taiwan with both kids. I'm excited, but also bracing myself because we're tired on a normal day, add in a 13-hour flight, a 13-hour time change, and two kids who don't care what time zone we're in. And jet lag is not just annoying, it's an emergency. That's why we're packing FlyKit. It's a kit plus an app that creates a personalized jet lag schedule for your trip, when to take the supplements, when to wear blue light blockers, when to get light, when to caffeinate, when to nap, all to give you the best shot at beating jet lag.

40:33Jessica Wynn:I was very skeptical, to say the least, when I first heard about this years ago. But after dozens of international trips. I don't travel without it ever. You enter your travel details, FlyKit maps out exactly what to do and when. It's based on research with, of course, Navy SEALs, fighter pilots, and athletes, but hey, also with podcasters that are old and get tired when they travel. Anyway, it helps a lot with jet lag and the inflammation that flying can cause. I've used it on brutal time zone trips, and it works every time. Go to flykitwith2ts.com. Use code Jordan for 15 % off, and let me know how it works for you.

41:04Jessica Wynn:Thank you for listening to and supporting this show. It is your support of our advertisers that keeps the lights on around here. All of the deals, discounts and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable on the website at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. So does a label that says sustainably sourced Mexican avocado, does that mean anything? Because I feel like I see those everywhere.

41:27Jordan Harbinger:The legal framework for those kind of labels is weak. You know, the enforcement is spotty and the cartels exploit that vacuum of labeling. The orchards go in, the forests go out, and often nobody's held accountable.

41:41Jessica Wynn:I'm guessing avocado orchards are thirsty because those fruits may hold a lot of water. They're oily, all that.

41:47Jordan Harbinger:Oh, yeah, yeah. It takes about 300 liters of water to produce just two or three avocados. Oh, my gosh. I know. So aquifers are drained, rivers dry up, pesticides contaminate drinking water for many communities, and not just in Mexico. In Chile's Patorca region, rivers literally vanished because of avocado irrigation, forcing communities to rely on water that's actually trucked in while the orchards get priority irrigation.

42:19Jessica Wynn:Oh, good. So our avocado habit is also contributing to drought, environmental damage and environmental injustice. So families can't shower or have a glass of water, but we've got great toast pics on Insta. Yeah, pretty much.

42:33Jordan Harbinger:I mean, Peru is another case, so avocado production there expanded massively for export markets, often with little oversight, leading to similar water shortages and land conflicts. And in Kenya, avocado farming for export has created deforestation and disputes over land ownership. So it's the same dynamics, high demand, weak regulation, and vulnerable communities just repeated globally.

43:00Jessica Wynn:So all over the world, the pattern is the same.

43:03Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, I mean, it works. People are making money off it and no one is really speaking out for those affected. So indigenous populations have been pushed off their land. The local standards of living decline as water disappears and forests fall. And at the same time, rising temperatures and drought make avocado farming less stable. So you have this vicious cycle of orchards contributing to climate stress while also being threatened by it. And yet demand keeps rising. From 2017 to 2021, Mexican exports nearly quadrupled.

43:39Jessica Wynn:OK, but somebody's trying to fix this, right? In Mexico or the U.S.?

43:45Jordan Harbinger:I mean, there are efforts. So the USMCA trade agreement has a rapid response mechanism that lets workers file complaints about labor violations, and some have already used it against big farms. But these power structures, you know, let's be honest, they are not easily taken down.

44:04Jessica Wynn:Can't we just grow them somewhere else, you know, without drug cartels involved? I don't know, California, Florida. I mean, we probably have our own cartels, but what do I know?

44:12Jordan Harbinger:No, I mean, we do grow them here, but we simply just don't have the space to produce nearly enough domestically. U.S. demand is too massive. So today, 77 percent of the world's avocados are imported into the United States. Like, we love avocados. And Mexico supplies the bulk. So from avocado toast to Taco Tuesday, America's hunger for the superfood, it just drives the entire system. And the EU joins in a bit, too. From 2017 to 2021 there, Mexican exports to Europe also nearly quadrupled.

44:55Jessica Wynn:So America and Europe get guac. Mexico gets cartels, violence, deforestation.

45:00Jordan Harbinger:Yes. And that is the imbalance. Some farmers do benefit, but much of the wealth, it just all goes to the cartels.

45:08Jessica Wynn:What about avocados listed as fair trade? I've seen those labels. Are those real? Do they help? Does that help at all?

45:13Jordan Harbinger:It can, but only to a point because it's just complicated. For farmers in certified cooperatives, fair trade provides stability. They get a guaranteed minimum price, which protects them from wild swings in the market. And on top of that, they get a fair trade premium that goes into a community fund. Farmers then can vote on how to use that money, and villages have used it to build schools, fund health care, even train people in different income streams that are untouched by cartels like beekeeping. Okay, that seems like a positive. Yeah, sure. I mean, it has the potential to empower farmers and give them collective bargaining power, but that's if you can get certified.

45:59Jordan Harbinger:So certification also enforces environmental standards like better water management, responsible pesticide use, and sometimes investments in green farming alternatives.

46:12Jessica Wynn:And the catch is, because that all sounds great, but I'm guessing there's a catch.

46:15Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, I mean, there's several issues. So certification is expensive and bureaucratic if you can get it. And the smallest farmers, the ones that are most vulnerable to cartels, they're usually shut out. That means fair trade only reaches a fraction of producers. And even when farmers do qualify, the premiums often aren't enough to make any real lasting change.

46:41Jessica Wynn:OK, so even the good guys are outnumbered by the scale of the industry.

46:45Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, right. And most avocados just aren't certified at all. So some companies still use words like sustainable while their supply chains are linked to deforestation or cartels. And this kind of greenwashing is common because the avocado market is just that massive.

47:04Jessica Wynn:Yeah, we did an episode on greenwashing. That was episode 599. So fair trade helps, but it's not green magic.

47:10Jordan Harbinger:Not at all. You know, other models are emerging, though. There are direct trade relationships with cooperatives and there are boutique certifications like Rainforest Alliance and a new pro-forest avocado label that's designed specifically to combat illegal logging.

47:29Jessica Wynn:Sounds good, but is any of this actually working?

47:32Jordan Harbinger:I mean, it's a start. Those organizations are so small, though. Pro Forest Certification was launched specifically in response to deforestation just in Mexico, but it only certifies growers who haven't cleared any forest for avocado orchards. So the idea is to rebuild consumer trust and separate responsible producers from cartel-tied production, but without enforcement and consumer pressure, it won't scale fast enough.

48:01Jessica Wynn:Okay, so we, the brunch eaters, still have some power.

48:04Jordan Harbinger:I guess, but it would take massive awareness campaigns all over to get people to choose certified products and push retailers for transparency. Right. Consumer pressure can move an industry, but it has to be a really big coordinated effort, and governments have to enforce regulations. So consumer advocacy groups have taken companies to court for misleading labels.

48:29Jessica Wynn:I guess it's probably hard to sue a drug cartel, though, right?

48:32Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, I mean, I would imagine. And in 2024, the Organic Consumers Association actually sued major importers like Colavo Mission and Fresh Del Monte for greenwashing. They were advertising Mexican avocados as sustainable, even though the supply chains were directly tied to deforestation, human rights abuses and cartel extortion. But that's still tied up in the courts.

49:00Jessica Wynn:So the cartels aren't just wrecking cash flow. They're wrecking communities, infrastructure, jobs and education, everything. At this point, the only thing the labels reliably tell you is that this came from Mexico.

49:12Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, I mean, it does feel like everything on our shelves and menus is just marketing spin sometimes.

49:19Jessica Wynn:Yeah, it sounds like avocados are going to keep being green gold for cartels then.

49:23Jordan Harbinger:Unfortunately, I think so. There are some trade reforms, but they're easy to get around. The EU has regulations banning imports tied to deforestation, but that gets complicated. I think demand will just continue to fuel destruction. So the avocado is like a perfect case study in globalization's hidden costs.

49:46Jessica Wynn:And the actual costs for avocados has always been high.

49:49Jordan Harbinger:Always. Avocado prices do fluctuate significantly and are most linked to the Mexican avocado supply. So some typical things like weather, drought, heat waves, things that cause lower production can affect cost. But it's really just the sheer demand the world has for avocados that will keep the price pretty steady.

50:10Jessica Wynn:Will that always be the case? You know, 10 years from now, will we still have to pay two bucks for a side or whatever, or three? Or is climate change going to lower production to the point where we can't even get them? You know, like how we're not going to have sushi in 50 years, basically, unless it's grown in a lab.

50:24Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, right. I mean, California is already struggling with low production. So the state's avocado production is projected to shrink drastically. Some growers are just pulling out trees altogether because of worsening droughts and wildfires and all the water rationing problems in California.

50:43Jessica Wynn:Yeah, it's Chinatown. So without California, it's just Mexico and a lot of cartel tax.

50:49Jordan Harbinger:Unless something changes. I mean, researchers are experimenting. People aren't going to like this, but researchers are experimenting with alternatives like lab grown or synthetic avocados. Food scientists are trying to replicate avocado texture and flavor using peas, oil and

51:07Jessica Wynn:natural flavoring. Fake guacamole. That's a different kind of organized crime right there.

51:14Jordan Harbinger:I know. I know. Even talking about it kind of makes me nauseous. It's an option. I mean, some people are pushing substitute crops. So chayote squash can mimic the creaminess. Hummus from chickpeas gives you the protein and healthy fats. Even pea or sunflower seed spreads can fill the gap.

51:35Jessica Wynn:Sure. Until we've got chickpea cartels and pea kingpins. Those I mean, let's just hope those foods get some decent management and a better and a good PR team.

51:45Jordan Harbinger:Yeah. I don't know if the Super Bowl party is ready for pea spread, but. Focamole. Yeah. Focamole. That's good. I mean, that's the challenge is consumer behavior. So the U.S. is addicted to avocados. And even if awareness of cartel violence and environmental destruction grows. Some people may switch to alternatives, but realistically, most consumers don't want to give up their guac.

52:13Jessica Wynn:Yeah, you're probably right. So what do we do? How can we live without avocados?

52:17Jordan Harbinger:Avocados are sold as a superfood and they have nutritious qualities, but they're easily replaced. We don't need avocados as a staple. Yes, avocados are high in folate, vitamin K, but you can get that from lentils, broccoli, sunflower seeds, and olive oil.

52:35Jessica Wynn:All of that sounds like it would be so good with some avocado on top, right? I know, I know.

52:40Jordan Harbinger:That'd be a good salad. Unfortunately, once cartels realized how profitable farming could be, they locked into a lot of our favorite foods, not just avocados. So they extort nearly every legal market. Lime growers, strawberry farmers, papaya orchards. They've muscled into timber, even iron ore and oil. So if something makes money, cartels want a cut.

53:05Jessica Wynn:Eating is a crime scene. It's like cartels are basically running a whole narco grocery aisle. That's nuts.

53:11Jordan Harbinger:I know. And I mean, if there's money to be made, the cartels tax it. It's like a parallel government. So whatever you buy in the supermarket, a cartel probably took a cut of that.

53:23Jessica Wynn:So my margarita is dirty, too. Limes, tequila, guac. It's a whole narco happy hour. The whole don't buy avocados, you're funding cartels argument. That kind of misses the point because, you know, people will say, like, oh, we're blaming the American drug users for the drug problems in the drug cartels. And it's like, OK, so are you also blaming the global demand for avocados for your drug cartels because they're also operating there too. So even if you cut everything out of your life, it just doesn't fit the systemic corruption that's down there in Mexico. And it's, this seems to be twofold individuals versus corporations and the conflicting values between countries trading with each other.

54:01Jordan Harbinger:And yeah, the hypocrisy is wild for sure. I mean, it's just classic capitalism. So, Hey, it's up to you to recycle the plastic bottles that corporations make billions of each year. It's up to you not to get hooked on the highly addictive foods and drugs that are shoved in your face every day that are terrible for you. But, you know.

54:23Jessica Wynn:Yeah. Again, people like blame. They'll be like, oh, if you guys didn't use drugs, we wouldn't have drug cartels. Clearly, that's not true. That's not true. And by that logic, you couldn't buy anything. Corruption and exploitation are baked into global supply chains in some places way more than others. So it's not about consumer choices. It's about weak defective governance and cultural issues. So yeah, don't tell me to boycott guacamole when the real problem goes untouched.

54:48Jordan Harbinger:Yeah, I know. And performative ethics, even if it works occasionally, is just trending outrage until the next thing comes along. And there's always the next thing. So avocados are just one example of a booming business coexisting with corruption and abuse. The supply chain isn't just farms and trucks. It's cartels running protection rackets, illegal logging, land grabs, bribes, human rights abuses, taxation of every crate of food. And if the world cares about climate and environmental crime, Mexico's avocado industry should be the test case for whether the food industry can actually reform itself.

55:32Jordan Harbinger:So the lesson here is bigger than guacamole. It's about how fragile our global supply chains are when the governance fails.

55:42Jessica Wynn:I see. The irony is brutal. The symbol of healthy food is also a symbol of violence and environmental collapse.

55:49Jordan Harbinger:Yeah. I mean, so the question isn't whether you can live without avocados. It's whether we can build food systems that aren't so vulnerable to all of this bad stuff. I just want to say here, I really want to apologize to everyone for this smear because I also love my avocados.

56:09Jessica Wynn:Yeah, man. Well, on that note, thank you, Jess. Way to ruin a perfectly good meal. And thank you all for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday to me, Jordan at JordanHarbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, discount codes, ways to support the show at JordanHarbinger.com slash deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Jessica on her multiple substacks. Between the Lines and Where Shadows Linger, we'll link to those in the show notes as well. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Tata Sidlowskis, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi.

56:47Jessica Wynn:Our advice and opinions are our own. I might be a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Also, we try to get these episodes as right as we can. not everything is gospel, even if it is fact-checked. So consult a professional before applying anything you hear on the show, especially if it's about your health and well-being. And remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge that we doled out today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn.

57:17Jessica Wynn:And we'll see you next time. Remember when Google actually gave you useful results? Facebook felt fun and Amazon didn't feel like a scam-filled maze? Cory Doctorow explains how tech platforms slowly trap users, squeeze businesses, and eventually cannibalize themselves, a process he calls in-shittification. It's not just that companies become too big to fail, and we bail them out, although that's happening. It's not just they become too big to jail, but they become too big to care. These companies, they eliminated the competition, and, you know, they and their advisors, you know, the economists who said monopolies are good and efficient, they're today just absolved of all responsibility.

57:52Jessica Wynn:You tell an economist the 40 years you spent briefing for the efficiency of monopolies are the reason that we're all getting screwed today. And they're like, how can you be so sure my pro-monopoly policies are in some way connected to the monopolies that are destroying our lives? The enchitogenic policy environment is what created this. We warned them at the time. They did it anyway. So you have Amazon that has done some admirable things, as has Facebook, right? Facebook was fun. Google was a great search engine. Apple made very beautiful and well-behaved devices, right? But they want you to think that there is no way you can get the benefit without enduring the costs, that those costs are intrinsic.

58:30Jessica Wynn:So I think we have to lay the blame at the feet of people who worked for us, who were warned at the time that their pet theories were going to create this in-shit-a-scene where everything turns to shit, who did it anyway. I knew today a lot of these guys are collecting six-figure consulting fees and polishing their fake Nobel Prizes in economics and being lauded as great figures of history. Like, we have to remember that it's them not just so that we can take it out of their hide, but so that we can make sure that in the future no one like them ever gets their hands near the levers of power. They do evil for the same reason your dog licks its balls, because they can.

59:04Jessica Wynn:To hear why the internet keeps getting worse, check out episode 1280 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

59:14Jordan Harbinger:Are you really buying a car online on AutoTrader right now?

59:17Jessica Wynn:Really? I can get super specific with dealer listings and see cars based on my budget.

59:21Jordan Harbinger:You can really have it delivered.

59:23Jessica Wynn:Or pick it up.

59:24Jordan Harbinger:Mommy, look! I think your kid is walking up the slide.

59:26Jessica Wynn:Really? AutoTrader. Buy your car online. Really? Menards is your one-stop shop for all your summer essentials. Whether you're stocking up on everyone's favorite snacks, making a patio perfect for entertaining family and friends, or getting ready to gather around the grill,

59:42Jordan Harbinger:Menards has everything you need for your get-togethers all summer long. Save big money now at Menards. Plus, don't forget to check out our weekly flyer on Menards.com for all the great deals happening now. Save big money at Menards.

59:59Jessica Wynn:This episode's sponsored by Ridwell. Ever tossed something into your recycling bin and just hoped it would get recycled? That's wish-cycling, and most of the time, those items don't actually get recycled. Ridwell makes it simple to get it right. Ridwell helps you recycle the things your curbside bin doesn't take, like plastic bags, snack wrappers, pill bottles, and bottle caps. Getting started is easy. Just order a starter kit, fill the bags, send them back for free, and Ridwell takes care of the rest. Start today at ridwell.com.