1353: Text Meant for Another Outs Married Brother | Feedback Friday

22:21He has told me on several occasions that the guys won't work with veteran carpenter, although I now believe that's coming from Steve, not from the crew. Three years later, and now foreman Steve and I are like oil and water too. The reason is that Steve is an absentee foreman. He shows up in the morning to get the crew started and then goes back to the office or out doing the things that I was hired to do. No discussion with me, no, hey, I'm going to go take care of this, no, hey, what are the plans for the project? He just assumed the portions of my job that he wants while I'm dealing with the messes and jobs he doesn't get involved in.

22:57He's also a total dick. I believe he intentionally steps on my toes. As far as I'm concerned, the foreman should be on the job site leading the crew, and that is what our crew needs because they're relatively young. Steve, who lacks experience, should not be leading the crew. But he wants to call the shots, even though he's not capable of discussing a situation with someone who has more experience than him. And it shows. The feedback that I get from the crew when Steve is not around is always negative. I've bitten my tongue on a few occasions when I was going to unload about Steve to my boss, but didn't.

23:31I didn't want it to be viewed as a personal issue from me. I want to remain professional. And I understand that there's always that guy at the office who you need to learn to work with. My therapist told me I was correct to not unload about Steve, even though a part of me thinks it's my duty to. I don't want to look for a new job. I like my job and I'm good at it. And I know that if Steve were gone, I would be very happy where I am. The problem is that my boss is all in on this guy. Steve seems to have his ear. He's ignored complaints from the crew, from the overlooked veteran, and to a degree, from me.

24:05I've pointed things out to my boss that were not handled correctly, and nothing was done. How do I deal with a situation that has me stressed out, not sleeping well, and now contemplating a new job? Signed, finding myself on all fours, man, because I'm at war with this foreman. You know who else was on all fours? Oh, sorry. It's not time for the ad pivot. Not time. It's not time for the ad pivot. You jumped the gun. Man, this is frustrating. I definitely understand why Steve, the rogue, unqualified dickhead foreman who can't get along with anyone and who for some reason is in the boss's good graces and can do whatever he pleases, is driving you up the wall.

24:41Employees like this are, yeah, they're really tricky to manage. My understanding is that as project coordinator, you're more senior than a foreman, so you're kind of, are you kind of this guy's boss, right? I assume so. Right? He should be listening to you to some degree, at least showing some recognition. But of course, he's friends with the big boss, so he feels like he doesn't need to do that for you, probably. But anyway, I'm sorry you're dealing with this. It's an interesting management challenge. So I think you have two options. Option one is you go directly to Steve and you basically say, listen, Steve, I want to talk to you about how we collaborate so we can deliver the best possible work for John and for the client.

25:15You have your way of working. I have a different one, and I'm sure you've noticed that it's causing a little bit of friction, and I'd like to resolve of that. What I'm seeing is that you're showing up in the morning, then you go out or you go back to the office. You're not communicating with me about what you're doing, what the project needs. You're just acting and you're taking on tasks that are mine and you're neglecting other ones that are yours. Then I have to pick up the slack. And meanwhile, our crew doesn't have the leader that it needs. When we interact, I also don't feel you show much interest or appreciation for how this way of working comes across or the impact you have on the team.

25:46That's a real challenge. So we're going to figure this out. I'm coming to you directly as a colleague. I'm not bringing this to John because you and I deserve a chance to work this out, just the two of us. And then see how he responds. If he engages with you, which seems a little unlikely, I guess, but it's definitely worth a shot. I would help him see how his style comes across, the problems it's creating, the opportunities he's missing. I would tell him how his responsibilities and general tone need to change and how you want to work together going forward. and I would maybe even consider saying something like, being a foreman is a big responsibility.

26:19It's a leadership position and I feel you have a lot of room to grow into being a good leader. I'd like to see you get there. I'm happy to support you in that but you're gonna have to rethink how you manage your crew, how you conduct yourself and how you communicate because this whole one man cowboy show, it's not working for anyone except you. Now, this is right on the line. Even the way I said it could be a little bit, I don't know, you don't need to be a dick about it. I think that's where I'm going with this. I would say all of this kindly and respectfully, and it'll make an even bigger impact.

26:50I might also consider recording the chat if that's legal in your jurisdiction. You can easily Google this. That way, if Steve explodes at you and starts cussing you out or whatever, which I'm afraid is possible because people like this often don't like to have their ego tested, or he runs to John like, Roger went crazy and said this and that. You can just hit play and be like, yeah, well, that's not how this went down at all. Voila. Now, if Steve doesn't engage with you or he plays along but nothing changes, option two, you have a chat with John about this. And the message there is, so look, I've talked to you about Steve in the past.

27:23I think you know that the crew and I are having ongoing challenges with him. Those challenges stem from the way he leads or doesn't lead, the way he chooses the tasks he wants to do, the fact that he wants to call the shots without much experience or consideration for other people. I've talked to him directly about all this, respectfully, collaboratively. I haven't made any progress. Now, it's ultimately your call whether you want to keep Steve on in that position. And my sense is that you want him here. If that's your decision, I accept it. But I have a responsibility to you. I have a responsibility to our clients to let you know that Steve is creating some very real business risks.

27:56And if I were in your position, I would want to know what they are. And the key phrase here is business risks because a lot of times, and this is just the sad truth of how businesses often operate, if you say everyone hates this person and they don't get along, the owner can look and go, I don't care, my business is doing well, you guys put your personality crap aside. But if you say, this person is putting the business at risk, and I feel like we gave this advice recently based on some HR stuff, Gabe. Yeah, this sounds exactly like the console from Joanna. Yes, exactly. Yes. If you frame it as, I did learn something from this show.

28:28That's great. People always ask me how I implement the stuff I learned from the show. You're hearing it in real time. If you frame it as a business risk, then the owner goes, oh, wait, this could affect me and my money? Now I suddenly care about your personality differences and the other things that are attendant to that. And then I would tell him very specifically what those risks are. The effectiveness and morale of his crew, including you, the ability to deliver high quality work for the clients, the ability to deliver that work on time, the possibility that good people are going to start quitting soon because they can't stand this guy and nothing is being done and you're included in that bucket of good people.

29:05Whatever the risks actually are, Again, I would not focus on your personal feelings about the guy, even though they're absolutely fair. I would just tell your boss very directly what the liabilities are to him. Then I would tell him specifically what you recommend, which is probably that he make it clear to Steve that he needs to play ball in the ways that you laid out and start factoring you in, or get rid of Steve and find a foreman who can actually lead and do the job of a foreman. I've clearly never worked in construction. You know, it's funny. years ago, Gabe, when I was dating, I met this girl from like Eastern Europe and I grabbed her hand to walk out of the bar and she goes, you have very soft hands.

29:42And I said, yeah, I don't really work very hard. And she started laughing. And then she was like, oh, I thought maybe you use a lot of cream. And I don't know what to do with that, but it's stuck in my consciousness as an insult for like 20 years. I was just like, I don't think it's a big compliment. She's like, you must do nothing with your hands. Correct, ma 'am. Absolutely correct. These hands have been disappointing women for decades. And what did you say after that? And by the way, where is Eastern Europe? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. So look, again, I've never worked in construction, so I might be missing certain nuances of the culture, but that's how I would handle this.

30:21And look, maybe you're successful with your boss. Maybe you're not. And if you're not, then you're going to have to find a way to accept this situation or you just find another job and leave. And I hate recommending that, but that's kind of how this all works. And on your way out, you tell your boss, look, I'm sorry, John, I loved this job, but the situation is untenable. I did try to tell you that he was a problem and that he would drive good people away. You didn't really seem that interested in that. So here we are. Maybe that would finally get him to get rid of this guy and keep you or hire you back.

30:49And that's how things finally change. Or maybe he won't and you move on. And honestly, that's also fine. But at least, you know, you did everything you could and you didn't just sit there and take it for a bunch of years until everything fell apart. I think this is an excellent plan. And even if he doesn't succeed with this whole Steve situation, I think he's still going to build some really good muscles along the way. I totally agree. This is a situation where even if you ultimately fail, you still win. I wonder why John is so loyal to this guy. Like, do they party together? Do they go back? Are they taking road trips to Arizona?

31:20You know, does Steve have something on John? John, I don't, what's going on here? Yeah, man, I was wondering the same thing. Obviously, he has some pull there. They're buddies. Like, the joke earlier is, you know, hey, John gets his weed from this guy. Or Steve saw John do something weird one night. I don't know, whatever it is. The dude's got to feel pretty secure if he has this level of entitlement. That's all I'm saying. I'm afraid that that capital is going to be hard to overcome. But if the risks start to outweigh the benefits, then John might wake up and do something. So that's what your script is designed to show him.

31:50It's also possible he's just known him for a while and he's a really good bullshitter, but that has its limits. And yeah, that's my hope too. At some point, losing half your crew and missing multiple deadlines has to be worth more than whatever dank weed Steve leaves in your desk drawer every Friday. I'm also just remembering that our friend here owned his own construction company until three years ago. You remember that? Oh, right. I forgot about that. I don't know how much that factors in here, but I can imagine that if you're used to being the boss, he had his own company for almost 20 years, he said, right?

32:19It must be really hard to not have the power to change a situation like this, to either sack this dude or make John take this seriously. You know, our friend sounds super humble, very thoughtful. He's respecting the politics. He's not openly complaining. He's saying, I know that there are always people you just got to learn to get along with. And I love that. Yeah, he's adjusting to being an employee really well. I think about this sometimes. I don't know if I'd be able to do it myself. I think I'm possibly quite unemployable. I've actually talked with other entrepreneur friends of mine, business owner friends of mine, and I joke about how I'm unemployable.

32:55And you know, it's funny, people who have corporate jobs, they'll go, yeah, I don't think that would be a fun transition for you. They're not saying I'm unemployable, but they're just saying it would be a nightmare scenario to transition into a corporation. But people who own medium businesses or small businesses, especially in the digital space, they're like, are you kidding me? You'd be a great hire because this is exactly who we need working here. But so it's kind of it's interesting. You think, oh, I can't do it. But then really, you just need to find a role that's not so pigeonholed and restrictive that you can't do anything.

33:26Maybe the hardest part is just not being the boss anymore. And I'm sure that there's also a part of our friend here going, I would never let this fly if I were in charge. And it's hard to turn that part of your brain off. so I just want to call that out because if the answer here is you just have to make peace with Steve then he's probably also gonna have to make peace with some other stuff the limits of his power in this company basically and I'm sure that brings up a lot of other stuff in addition to his anger and his stress around this dude good point he might be in a way mourning his previous power which I gotta say I do feel for him on that front that's tough to let go of but again doing pretty well with it I really hope that gives you a way forward here man I've no idea where this is going but this is one roadmap that should get you to some productive places.

34:09Friggin Steve, what a blowhard. I can just imagine this guy, right? I hope he gets checked one way or the other real soon and good luck. And by the way, y 'all can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Keep your emails concise, por favor. Try to use a descriptive subject line that makes our job a whole lot easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, you're spinning out about what AI is going to do to your industry, or you're a suck it up buttercup veteran struggling to deal with a chaotic, abusive, alcoholic mother, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, reach out to us Friday at jordanharbinger.com.

34:39We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Speaking of blowhards, time for me to read you some ads. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Cook Unity. I actually get flavor fatigue really fast. I don't want the same sad rotation of chicken, rice, salad, repeat every single week. Part of enjoying life is tasting different flavors and that's honestly one of the reasons that I love traveling. You go somewhere new, you try the local food, suddenly dinner feels fun again, but exploring restaurants all the time, that gets expensive really fast. You crave Thai curry, Korean beef, Mediterranean bowls, really good pasta, and then suddenly dinner comes with delivery fees and tips and a receipt that makes you question your financial decisions.

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38:19touch with her landlord as she was expecting to move into a retirement community right around my wife's due date. We ended up moving into the house that Jess was living in, and after two years, we ended up purchasing the house from the landlord at a great price. Meanwhile, Jess settled into her retirement community. Over the years, we've continued to see her on a regular basis. We've adopted her into our family, almost like a transplanted grandma who attends our kids' birthdays, cookouts, and the like. That is super sweet. I love that. Wow. Then about a week ago, I got a call from Jess. She told me that she had been assaulted by an older woman.

38:56Let's call her Linda, who lives in her building. Assaulted by a pensioner? This is so strange and dark. What started as a small dispute over flowers in a small community garden escalated to assault. That is pretty scary. On this night, around 4 p.m., after a series of uncomfortable encounters, Jess was cornered in the elevator by Linda, Linda's boyfriend, and several of her friends. The group was making rude comments, blocking Jess's access to the elevator buttons, and repeatedly pushing the wrong button while continuing to mock her. When the elevator made it to the next floor, the mocking continued and Jess attempted to escape.

39:34At this point, Linda physically assaulted Jess, striking her in the body and head multiple times. What? This is horrifying. This is some high school stuff. Or in a public housing unit in a dodgy neighborhood or something. Not in a retirement community for grandmas. This is so bizarre. Jess pushed Linda away in self-defense, causing Linda to stumble outside of the elevator and allowing Jess to escape. Extremely shaken, scared, and humiliated, Jess walked outside while trying to call the building management as well as the police non-emergency line. Linda followed her, heckling and harassing her as she made it to her car.

40:11Jess, still feeling vulnerable and unsafe, was also incredibly embarrassed that the situation had escalated to violence. I mean, Linda should be the one who's embarrassed, but I get it. And by the way, one quick note, you can dial 911 for something that is kind of an emergency. Dialing a police non-emergency line is essentially asking to get voicemail. This is very much an emergency, what she was going through. If you were just assaulted, that's an emergency. If the assaulter follows you and heckles you and harasses you as you run to your car while you're on the phone, that is the definition of an emergency.

40:45And I know people are nervous about calling 911, but as somebody who's called 911 dozens of times, especially when I worked security and worked with the cops and stuff like that, you're not going to get in trouble for accidentally thinking that something was an emergency. That is, you really have to essentially waste a ton of 911 call time before they go, hey, stop calling us. this particular thing isn't an emergency. I've called 911 because there was somebody sitting on the road that didn't belong there and he wasn't responding to me. You know, hardly an urgent situation, but it was urgent enough that they were like, yeah, we're sending an officer over there because who knows what's going on.

41:19So if you think, is it an emergency or is it not, just default to yes. Otherwise, you're going to leave six voicemails for San Jose PD and they're going to come, you know, they'll call you back in three days. Poor Jess. She's such a sweetheart. she just gets physically attacked in an elevator. And she's like, oh, but I don't want to trouble anyone. I'm going to call the non-emergency. She's so sweet. No, she needs help. This situation with Linda has been building over time and is not exclusive to Jess, with other neighbors complaining to Jess about similar experiences with Linda. We believe Linda specifically targets Jess, however, because she's been about the only person who even remotely stood up to Linda in the past.

41:57Oh, so she is assertive. She's just very respectful. Being rude to her, being mean, intimidating with her group of cronies, that kind of stuff. Jess is a sweetheart who just wants to enjoy her peace in retirement, and these people are threatening to take that away from her. Also, Linda has lived here much longer than Jess and seems to have some pull with other tenants who will clearly back her up and support these attacks against Jess. If she were to stand her ground, so to speak, it's safe to assume that she will be going up against not just Linda, but Linda's gaggle of geriatric henchmen. It's mean girls, but everybody's 75 years old.

42:32The other neighbors who have expressed issues with Linda in the past may be of some support to Jess, but will likely not take as strong of a stance against Linda as Jess will. Which is also uncool. These people need to band together and get this miscreant out of there. Come on. What options does Jess have legally? Do the management of the complex or the higher-ups have any culpability here? Is it worth it for just to stand her ground, fight the good fight, and try to reclaim her peace in her current living arrangement? Or is she better off cutting her losses and finding a new place to live? Signed, a concerned adopted son who does not want to be forced into roundhousing a bunch of raisin-skinned, grippy sock-wearing, communal garden dictators.

43:14Wow. What happened there? He wrote that sign off and it made me laugh, so I just kept it. I thought it was funny. Because I was like, man, I know my guy's work and this ain't my guy's work. It's a little more raw. I like it. I kept reading it and I wanted it to rhyme and it just refused to rhyme. But that somehow was perfect for the story. Yes. Raisin skin grippy sock wearing community garden dictators is a nice image. It's pretty good. I'm just picturing Linda bicycle kicking anybody she doesn't like in her Pilates socks. I also love the idea of him coming down to this retirement community to roundhouse kick his adopted grandma's enemies.

43:48like you stand up from that wheelchair right now and look me in the eye if you mess with her again i'm gonna knock your dentures out okay i know you can just put them back in but it's the principle of the thing truly it's symbolic it's a nursing home vigilante yeah i can't say i blame him these people sound horrible they are terrible i want to slap these people around too especially this linda character she sounds absolutely awful violently attacking another resident because they had a disagreement over who gets to grow their peonies and which garden bed or whatever. This is actually insane. And my first thought is, oh, this person has cognitive decline.

44:23They're suffering from dementia and they're starting to get violent. But then also her boyfriend joined in and a bunch of other residents joined in. So either they're all in the same boat or they're actually just a menacing gang of elderly people that beat other people up in the elevator, which is gross. Literally. I'm really sorry this is happening to Jess. And I'm so sorry you guys have to watch this happen. It's super upsetting. It's not right. So I think Jess basically has two legal options. Option one is she reports the assault to law enforcement. In other words, try to initiate a criminal case.

44:51Option two is she sues Linda civilly for damages that makes it a civil case. Obviously, the two are not mutually exclusive. Now, it's up to Jess whether she wants to pursue a civil case. Maybe that'll escalate things in a way that she doesn't want. Maybe she doesn't care about damages. Maybe it's more trouble than it's worth. But if I were in her shoes, I would absolutely contact the police and report the assault because it's the right thing to do. This psycho and her psycho henchmen, they assaulted her and they battered her actually, and they should be held accountable. But also because she's going to want that paper trail.

45:21If this happens again, which I sincerely hope doesn't happen, but it could, the police are probably going to take it much more seriously if there's already a police report about the same person doing the same thing already on file. Also, I would hope that the police would look into this, maybe ask the building for any camera footage, which would be really good evidence. And they would also hopefully go talk to Linda directly, and maybe that'll spook her into staying away from Jess. And if Jess ever does decide to sue, the police report and the camera footage will probably be crucial pieces of evidence.

45:49A lawyer could also subpoena the building for that footage too. As for the management of the complex or the higher-ups, if they were notified that this happened in their building and they didn't take any action, they might actually have some culpability here. But how you define culpable, it can be a little squidgy. It also depends on whether you mean criminal or civil liability. I'm guessing this complex is a code of conduct or something like that that all residents are required to follow. I'm sure that that includes not punching and kicking and harassing other tenants in the building and the elevators.

46:18Also, tenants in the U.S. are expected to uphold a few obligations. One of them is avoiding creating serious disturbances or nuisances for the neighbors. Another is using the property in a safe and lawful way. And I think you could very easily argue that Linda has already violated both of these covenants. There's also the more universal concept in landlord-tenant law of quiet enjoyment of the property. Yes, look at you lawyering up over here, which means every tenant has the right to reasonably peaceful and safe use of their home without any craziness going on. Correct. And a corollary to that is that tenants generally cannot interfere with other residents' ability to live safely and peacefully.

46:57I would say that Linda has violated that concept even more clearly. For sure. You said that Jess tried to call the building management and the police. It's not clear if she actually got through to them, if they came out and looked into all this. If she didn't reach them, then no, they're probably not culpable, at least not right now. All that to say, if she did notify them and the management didn't do anything, at least send a warning to Linda or something, then yeah, I could imagine them being named as a party in a lawsuit. I mean, anybody can be named as a party in a lawsuit. Whether it sticks and results in damages as another question, but it would certainly get their attention.

47:28But if Jess didn't get in touch with them, I would absolutely notify them that this happened with a detailed report. And if the police did come out, I would share a copy of the incident report with the management so that they understand that this was real and very serious. I'm assuming this retirement community has some kind of process for handling situations like this. At a certain point, they need to realize that Linda has to go or be watched very closely, or they're going to have a huge problem on their hands one day? Because this could get a lot worse. Yeah, definitely. So it's hard for us to say whether it's worth it for Jess to fight the good fight or cut her losses and find a new place to live.

48:01I guess that depends on how dangerous Linda actually is. She sounds pretty dangerous to me, man. I wouldn't want to live with that kind of person. But is she, I don't know, is she a murderer? Is she going to keep doing this every week? Will she calm down after a warning? I just don't know. It's hard to say. Also depends how much Jess enjoys living at this place, right? Yeah, look, if she's in love with it and it's perfect in every other way, that's a good reason to fight the good fight. If she could be just as happy somewhere else without a psycho neighbor who attacks her, then just do that. Yeah, then she might not need to be so attached to this place.

48:28In fact, who know, maybe there's something better out there for her. And this is just an excuse to go look at it. Who knows? This can't be the only retirement community in the area. But honestly, the idea that she has to leave while this psycho gets to stay, that just does not sit well with me. It's hard for older people to move and make new friends. So there's a part of me that wants her to fight the good fight. However, if Jess is in serious danger of being gravely injured or worse by this woman and the police in the building can't do anything about it, then this is a no-brainer. She's got to leave.

48:57Either way, your next steps are reporting the assault to the police and to the building and going from there. I would also consider consulting with an attorney, especially if Linda continues. They can tell you what your options are. They can advise on a lawsuit. They might even help with communicating with the police. but the most important thing right now is keeping Jess safe and finding a way to hold this psycho accountable. I'm very sorry this is happening to you guys. I'm still a little shocked that this stuff happens even at Jess's age. She sounds like a gem and you guys sound like an awesome adopted family.

49:27I'm glad she has you looking out for her. Good luck. Also, in case y 'all don't know, there's a subreddit for the show. Basically every Feedback Friday question has a thread and most episodes also have a thread. We would love for you to come and join us over on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. You know who won't beat up your granny in an elevator? The amazing sponsors who support this show. We'll be right back. The people who seem to get more done than everyone else, they're not working longer hours or running on more caffeine. They've just stopped wasting time on the stuff that doesn't move work forward.

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50:38Go keeps up so you can move forward. With Go working with you, you can show off what you do best. See what Superhuman Go can do at superhuman.com. That's superhuman.com. If you liked this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do. Take a moment, support our sponsors. To learn more and get links to all of the discounts you hear on the show, So visit jordanharbinger.com slash deals. If you have any problems with any code at any time, email me jordan at jordanharbinger.com. Happy to dig up codes for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show.

51:14And now for the recommendation of the week. I am addicted to lit filler. So my recommendation of the week is there's these handcrafted cutting boards that are from a company called Hung on Wood. And one of our listeners, Tony, he makes these awesome wood cutting boards. I don't know how Jen found out about it, probably through the email inbox. Anyway, she saw this and she immediately bought one. He made it to order super fast. He had it shipped over quickly too. I saw it right when I walked in the kitchen. I said, wow, this is a boss cutting board. This thing is really nice. She's like, yeah, it's all handmade.

51:46One of our show fans made it. And she's obsessed with it. She uses it all the time. My mom saw it. She was like, wow, this thing, it means business. I saw the thing. Again, I think it's beautiful. They're not sponsoring this segment or the show or anything. In fact, Tony, this is probably the first he's hearing about us hyping his company up. So we're just fans of the product and we wanted to give him a shout out. And you can check out their product line and learn more about the company at hungonwood.com. And you could support a show fan instead of buying something from, I don't know, whatever, Crate and Barrel or wherever they sell cutting boards.

52:17Not that they don't deserve it, but Tony deserves it just a little bit more. All right, next up. Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm in my early 40s and live in the UK. My mom, who's German, has severe COPD, that's chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, and over the last decade has not stopped drinking or smoking. She has depression, and I think all my life I've tried to help her with outlasting success. I went to therapy two years ago to learn to work through all of this. In CBT, I learned that there are a lot of patterns I've engaged in all my life, and they're never enough because I can't fix my mom.

52:53Wow, big insight there. Sounds like you've done some good and very important work. I also have a half-brother who's 20 years younger than me. He's a real unfortunate product of his parents, and he struggles a lot. He never finished his apprenticeship, lost his job and flat, and has already accumulated loads of debt at a young age. Oh man, that's tough. I am sorry to hear that. I'm trying to be there where I can, but I don't push him to talk. I feel like he's had enough of that in his life, and it hasn't helped. Living abroad makes this extra heavy sometimes. I remind myself that this is their way of living, and I can offer help, but I can't do it for them.

53:30The advice on similar stories that you give on Feedback Friday often helps remind me of that. Yeah, I'm glad. It's one of those universal truths that is so obvious that it's really easy to forget, but yeah, very clarifying. Then, today, I saw something that made me deeply sad on social media. It was about a dog that had been mistreated in a military conflict area. The fact that these things happen all over the world makes me incredibly sad. It's not fair how we as humans treat innocent animals. It sucks. I'm typing this on a train and could break down sobbing right now. How can we fix this? How do I deal with these emotions?

54:09And why does this upset me even more than seeing my mom and half-brother struggle? What would Yogi Gabe do about it? Signed, trying to curtail the effects of this sad tale, Both my family's story and the one that should be wagging and hail as I ride the national rail. Man, this letter really took a turn, huh? It's like a European film. Starts in one place, ends up in a completely different one. You're like, how did we get here? Well, she is a German living in the UK, so I guess that's on brand. The girl's blending genres over here. I'm a tad confused, though, but okay. So, I'm very sorry to hear about your mom and your brother.

54:43I'm sure it's devastating to watch them struggle like this. It's got to be so frustrating to watch your mom continue to smoke and drink when she's got COPD. Also, that just sounds painful and yucky. It's just got to be very sad to watch your brother dig himself into a hole. Super sad, even harder to deal with when you live far away, so I totally get that as well. I also love that you keep coming back to this principle that you can offer your love and support, but you can't live their lives for them. It sounds like dealing with your family is a great practice for living that idea. It's not always easy, but it is easier, and it's the right stance to take.

55:16So I find it interesting that you started with your family, and then you moved to the question of animal rights. I cannot help but wonder if the two are linked somehow in your mind. We can't know for sure, of course. We need to know so much more about you, but maybe you, I don't know, associate your younger brother with the dog you saw, and you transpose some of your feelings about him onto the animal. Maybe that explains why the post upset you even more than seeing your family struggle. Maybe it's hard to be fully in touch with your grief around your mom and brother, but it's easier to respond to an innocent animal on the internet.

55:47I feel like this actually happens to me sometimes. In fact, last month, my uncle passed away. It was my dad's brother. We were not super close. And when it happened, I was like, oh, that's a bummer. He was old and sick. Sorry to hear it. Didn't really get to me. And then a little while later, I'm scrolling Instagram. This is not even the same day, right? It's several days later. And I come across this real, well, quite interestingly, it was a dog, I think, stuck in a courtyard or something in a developing country. And all of a sudden, I'm like, there's tears streaming down my face. I'm like, this is so terrible.

56:15The poor dog, you know? Wow, interesting. Okay, so this basically the same exact thing happened to you. We probably saw the same reel. So maybe we locate our feelings in these other people or beings or we're just having a delayed reaction or something and we just need a catalyst to set it off later. I also think dogs are especially easy creatures to identify with because they're just so easy to love, you know? And it's hard to see them be vulnerable. bullets like devastating to see them mistreated. That might be part of it. I think you're onto something there. They're kind of the perfect avatars for our emotions sometimes.

56:46And hey, it's also possible that you're feeling pretty helpless when it comes to your mom and brother, which is one of the many difficult feelings that we have to be in touch with when we stop trying to live other people's lives for them. And that's distressing, understandably so. And then you see this other terrible thing happening over here. And you're like, oh, I wonder if I can do something about that. Maybe that would make me feel less helpless and more effective, like I'm actually able to make an impact. It's also possible that dealing with your family has made you more sensitive to other forms of suffering in the world in general, or who knows, maybe one has nothing to do with the other.

57:18They're just examples of different kinds of sadness in the world, and they just happen to be on your mind at the same time. Either way, I don't know how we're supposed to fix animal abuse around the world overnight. I don't know. I know Gabe's much more passionate about this topic than I am. I love animals, but I also eat meat. I wear leather. I'm not exactly a poster child for animal welfare, but seeing posts about animal cruelty and stuff like that, it'll ruin my whole day too. It's upsetting and tragic. We just live in a very cruel world. All you can do is get involved in the ways that speak to you.

57:47Donating to nonprofits, volunteer at a shelter, contribute to welfare agencies, do some service trips, raise money, raise awareness online. I'm sure you're already aware of the ways you can get involved in this world. And these are all great ways to channel your sadness and your anger into something productive. But your second question, How do I deal with these emotions? That might be the better question. Because again, animal cruelty is not going to end anytime soon, and it might never end, sadly. So you might always have some difficult feelings when it comes to this stuff, as we all should, because again, pointless animal cruelty is horrifying.

58:22Agreed completely. I guess I would want to ask her what she means by deal with her emotions. If she means stuff them down or pretend that they're not there, I'm not sure that's going to get her very far. That never really works anyway. And again, her reaction to seeing people cause another sentient being pain for no reason, that's appropriate, that's warranted, so I'm not sure she needs to make that go away. If she means, how do I sublimate these feelings into something more productive, I think that's smart, and Jordan just talked about a few good ways to do that. If she means, how do I feel these feelings and not let them dominate my life or ruin my entire day, maybe this is more about how she works with her feelings in general.

58:58We don't know you, so we don't know how you feel a feeling or what you do with a feeling, how it affects your mood and your outlook and all of that. But obviously processing these feelings is important, whether it's talking to somebody else or writing them down or putting them into action and transforming them somehow, which I guess is that's just the sublimation thing again. That's really the best way to quote unquote deal. But I wonder if maybe feelings in general can kind of become overwhelming for you or stick around longer than you would like. And if that's the case, I would ask your therapist about that and see if you guys can dig into why these feelings feel particularly difficult, how you can learn to contain them a little bit better so that they don't dominate you necessarily, you contain them.

59:39I might also talk to your therapist about this interesting shift from your family to this video you saw, you know, maybe talking it out will reveal an interesting association that makes it make sense. If it needs to make sense, I don't know. But this is kind of broad advice, I realize, but it's hard to solve this question in a few minutes on a podcast because it's such a big one. So fair to say that that's what Yogi Gabe would do. That's what Yogi Gabe would do. Yogi Gabe would also strongly consider experimenting with a plant-based diet, even if it's just part of the time. But, you know, Yogi Gabe would also know that that is not, it is not his place to tell other people how to live.

1:00:14So there's that. Yogi Gabe would remember what our friend here said, which is that he can't live other people's lives for them. Yes, of course. Exactly. Yeah. And also Yogi Gabe also is not 100 % convinced that veganism is absolutely the correct way to live. It's just, it just feels like a harmonious way to live. And it's one very concrete way that I've found to do right by animals in my own life because we share the earth with them. And that's why I think it's important, but I don't know. I'm open to being convinced otherwise if new data comes out or if I see the world differently, it's just kind of how I've been for a while and how I am now.

1:00:46Yeah, I hear that. This is an interesting letter, man. There's some psychic link between a mother who won't take care of herself, a brother who can't manage his life very well, the feeling of being far away and unable to change them and the fact that at any given moment there are animals that are suffering in the world. What it is, I guess that would be a cool thing to explore in therapy, but maybe the link matters less than the questions that it raises, which is what does this say about me and my values? Do I wanna try to contribute to the solution or is this something else that I just need to accept?

1:01:13And what does recognizing this boundary that you can't make other people do anything they don't wanna do, that you can't make the world a kind place on your own, what does that bring up for me? And how do I learn to accept those feelings? I think those questions are probably going to get you a lot further. I think that's exactly right, Jordan. I also wonder if the fact that she rode us on a train has something to do with it. Trains are emo, man. I don't know what it is, especially at night. You listen to the right kind of music on a train and it's like a psychedelic trip or something. I really don't get it.

1:01:41Trains and planes. Yeah. They say people cry more when they watch movies on airplanes, but I don't understand how that can be because you have somebody who's five inches away from you. I remember looking into this and apparently the evidence for that is kind of weak. But I think we all feel that. We all know that we kind of get emo when we fly. So apparently researchers have suggested that there is something about airplanes, and I assume trains do, but maybe to a lesser degree, that makes us more vulnerable. So it's some combination of the isolation, reflection. You're also tired when you're flying, and there's some mild stress associated with it.

1:02:13So all of that together tends to lower your emotional defenses. So that's why I cry way harder when I watch Marley and me on an airplane. Got it. I mean, bad example because it's a dog. So if you don't cry when you watch Marley and me, you're probably a monster. That is true. Probably, yes. And trains are similarly wistful. You're in a liminal space. You're alone with your thoughts. Also, it sounds like our friend here is from another country and her mom is far away. And I know that traveling can remind you that you're a foreigner in a foreign land. And you know, there's a lot of distance between you and the people you love.

1:02:43That can be emotional. So it's just interesting. Maybe the venue also played a role in her response and also maybe her desire to reach out to us in the first place. I'm sure it did. I'm sure it did. I'm sure those animal cruelty videos hit different when you're watching them at a Manchester United match or something like that on your phone. In any event, I'm sorry you're wrestling with these big feelings, but I also don't think these feelings are wrong or bad. What you do with those feelings, the meaning you make of them and how they play a role in your life living so far away, that's up to you.

1:03:10So keep going to therapy, keep talking, keep acting, and I know you'll survive these moments, sending you a big hug and wishing you all the best. You know, Gabriel, it reminds me, there are some sort of, there's an element of homesickness that people get too that compounds, it's like a multiplier effect. You know when you're drinking and then you smoke something and you feel way drunker than you were before, that multiplier effect that the kids talk about that I haven't experienced in a decade, thank God. That kind of thing happens with homesickness and I remember I was in Serbia, I think we still call it Yugoslavia back then or whatever, I was there at night.

1:03:45I woke up. I couldn't sleep. I was super homesick. I was like, I hate it. Things aren't going my way. I had some problems with like the police or something, which I've mentioned on the show before I was getting harassed. It was annoying. My job was kind of annoying. I didn't have that many friends at the time because I was new there. And I remember being like, screw it. I'm just not sleeping tonight. And I turned on the TV and the Super Bowl was on. And I was like, wow, I have to watch this. This is exactly what the doctor ordered. I don't care about football at all, man. But I was watching the Super Bowl with like Serbian announcers talking over over top.

1:04:16And I watched the whole thing. And what's funny is it was the Janet Jackson, I think Justin Timberlake or whoever it was Super Bowl where she had the wardrobe malfunction. Iconic. Yes. And I remember they zoomed in on the nipple and it's in the you apparently in and I remember being like, is that a nipple piercing? What am I looking at? Because it was European TV, right? So this is a Serbian broadcast probably done for all of Europe. And so they just left it on. Whereas in the I heard later because I read about it all the next day in the United States, they zipped away from it as fast as they could as soon as whatever director, producer, whoever it was, realized what was going on.

1:04:48But the Serbian TV, they just left the camera zoomed in and the guys are like, oh, oh, look at that. You don't see that every day. You know, just talking about it, talking about it, talking about it. No commercial, no sort of halftime, anything. They were just like talking about that, zoomed in on it until they rushed her away and covered her up. and then they were just talking about her nipple for like the next 10 minutes. It was really funny. It was a totally different take on the whole thing. Anyway, I normally wouldn't feel homesick and I normally wouldn't feel that sort of sense of like entertainment and relief from the Super Bowl, but there's that multiplier effect.

1:05:19So maybe also because she's so far away and she felt this way and she felt that way and she hit the video and she was on a train. I think all that stuff just adds together and you get a rush. It's like when you're just minding your own business and it's Memorial Day and you turn the TV on and there's some memorial for guys that died in World War II and you just lose it. Like that happens to me too. It just, the damn breaks, man. You know, who knows what the recipe is that makes it happen every time. Go back and check out Joanna Stern and our Skeptical Sunday on alcohol if you haven't done so yet.

1:05:47The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network. That's the circle of people I know, like, and trust. I'm teaching you how to build that same thing for yourself for free in our six-minute networking course. It's not schmoozy, it's not gross, it's very practical and it's free on the Thinkific platform at sixminutenetworking.com. Dig that well before you get thirsty, folks. build relationships before you need them. Show notes, transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram.

1:06:15You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, Tata Sidlowskis, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but not your lawyer, consult a qualified professional before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.

1:06:50You're about to hear a preview of a story that sounds unbelievable, but Ava LaRue and her daughter Kaya lived it for 12 years. Dear Mr. Capucho, That's how they're addressed. Please pass this letter on to your wife, who I would like to rape and kill and dismember. Love, Freddy Krueger. I mean, I knew at a certain age that it was bad, that it was, you know, rape, mutilation, killing, dismembering. I knew that in a general sense. At that point, you feel safe nowhere, because it's this amorphous threat. It doesn't have a face or a name, or it just feels like it's coming from everywhere. So my hair started falling out.

1:07:25I broke out in hives. like for a month and a half, almost two months, I was like a shell. I didn't know how to protect my kid. I didn't know how to protect myself. It doesn't matter how much security you have at your house. For a while there, when CSI ended, I thought, oh, thank God, like maybe he'll just be off of it. And for about six months, we were enjoying no letters at all. And then all of a sudden they started again, like fast and furious. Because after 12 years, I just, I had stopped hoping that he'd ever be caught. of all the women that were murdered in the United States last year, 86 % of them were stalked first.

1:08:01We will never not be hypervigilant. And he's out! So how do we just go, oh, he's fine now, I'm sure he's totally sane. Because people go from insane to sane. I'm sure it fades with time, and I don't know, for us, as long as this guy is alive, I don't know that it'll really be able to fade for us. There is no before, there's only going to be an after, and I don't know what that looks like. To learn how they survived it and how the case was finally solved, check out episode 1283 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.