1355: Making Kids Aware of Genetic Risks They Share | Feedback Friday

20:07Gabriel Mizrahi:and it's not a big deal. Yeah. Interesting. If I make a mistake, I say, what if I say something like the equivalent of, what is coldest temperature on mountain? Then they're like, oh, wow, your Chinese is good. Oh, yeah, it's going to be 12 degrees on the top of the mountain. But if I say, hey, how cold is it up top of the mountain? Then they go, that's one of the reasons something like that you know no we do and i'm like wait what what did you just say because it's like there's not clear at all and then i remember one massage guy was like wow your chinese is good and i was like i don't understand anything that you're saying and he goes oh i'm speaking this local dialect that only the bai zu which is like the local it's like a minority that lives in dali this is what we speak and i don't understand a word of that obviously jen doesn't understand a word of that.

20:53My in-laws don't really understand it either. It's very local dialect. It's completely different. That different from Mandarin. Yeah. It's totally different. None of the words seem to be really the same. People like taxi drivers don't even seem to really know how to speak fully proper Chinese or that they should speak fully proper Chinese. They kind of just don't bother because everybody that they encounter who's not a tourist understands them. And then tourists probably just use Google translate and Chinese tourists probably just put in the app where they're going and don't talk. There's kind of a taxi driver rule in most countries.

21:28Like when I was learning German, I remember towards the end of the year, I could really understand all the taxi drivers. And I was like, I'm so proud of myself because these guys aren't trying to speak clearly. They speak kind of like a working class dialect from growing up in communist block apartments on the outskirts of town. I could definitely speak and understand German if I understand them. It's not that doesn't work in China because they're like, I'm no longer speaking what's called like putol hua, the common Chinese. Like I'm no longer speaking Mandarin Chinese. I'm speaking this totally different dialect.

21:56It's not just like, oh, English versus English in Texas, or the Deep South. It's not that. It's like English versus Creole. It's just not the same thing at all. Totally different dialect. If you understand it, it's completely different.

22:09Gabriel Mizrahi:Completely different universe. Have you come across any strange food on this trip? Yes. What I find everywhere here is durian, which if you don't know what it is, it's a fruit that smells... terrible smells like an outhouse kind of when they cut it open and i'm not exaggerating it really does smell like an outhouse if this isn't so much in china but in in hotel rooms and other parts of southeast asia there's signs that say if you open a durian in here you will be fined a hundred dollars because they basically have to open all the windows for like three days they can't rent the room to anyone else they've got to like spray i don't know what you'd call febreze or something probably all over the room.

22:47They might even have to replace anything. It touched like sheets or anything because it smells like poo. It smells like a outhouse.

22:54Gabriel Mizrahi:Why do they even pick and sell this food? It's tasty, actually. Oh, it tastes good, but it smells bad? That's so weird. I would say the closest approximation would be like a good cheese where you go, oh my God, that's disgusting. And it's like, yeah, but what if you spread it on a cracker and you're like, okay, actually it tastes pretty good. So what do they put it on? Dorian, well, you just eat it or they'll put it on pizza. so you'll get this like stinky cheese pizza with little bits of fruit on it and it's actually really good but it smells bad it's like their hawaiian pizza is with durian i think so yeah and it's kind of it must be a local thing because they have a crap load durian around here because they have durian everything durian drinks durian coffee durian pizza you'll walk around the corner and you'll go oh yeah there's a durian vendor around the corner and sure enough you'll turn around there'll be a truck full of durian and you smell it you smell it a hundred meters away it stinks what a weird detail another thing is they'll be like oh hey you should try this and you'll go and you'll see this vendor that sells scorpions that are roasted larva of various kinds of moths or something like the caterpillars that are all grilled and some of that is touristy nonsense i think i don't think that locals are like ah you know what i want is a bag of scorpions but you will see people walking around munching on scorpions and larva and stuff like that around here.

24:10So another thing that is actually sad is I saw there's all these restaurants and they have like Tupperware buckets out front and there'll be a fish in there that someone's going to eat that day or giant frogs that someone's going to eat that day. And then I see stuff that's like, what is that? It looks almost like a little, or I shouldn't say a little, a giant mud puppy or a giant salamander. So I Google image search this, which is something I forgot you could even do. rarely do i see anything in my daily life that i can't identify right but china is one of those places so i take a picture i throw it into google image search on my phone and it's like giant chinese salamander and i'm like oh that's so weird that you can eat this and then it below that it says critically endangered oh no and i'm like oh no and every restaurant on this street has 10 of them in a bucket various buckets like all just on top of each other slowly dying i don't like this part no and so i asked i was like hey where do you get these and they're like why and i was like well is this a common animal and i think they sort of read between the lines and she's like no we breed those for food only and i was like i hope you're not lying but there's so many swampy areas around here that i don't know if i believe you bro you need send that photo to rachel newer get this lady on the case that's right yeah the uh wildlife trafficking gal yeah because i'm thinking maybe you do breed them maybe you do but maybe you just go in your backyard of your farm and catch them in the swamp and then you tell everybody that you breed them because it's illegal for you to be selling these especially as food i'm sure china is full of that kind of stuff

25:47Gabriel Mizrahi:that's sad yeah let's move on they're like the size of a small dog and it's a salamander it's that makes it worse it makes it so much worse that's super sad i don't like it yeah well i have to end on a positive note what else you got what else happened do you see anything else sound interesting. So yeah, I was walking through the lobby of my hotel on the way to breakfast, and I saw this little kid rolling around on the carpet. And I walked up to him and I said, I'm going to step on you, you know, just playing with him. And then the dad came out of nowhere and was like, oh, it's okay. He's part of the carpet now.

26:16And we had a laugh about that. And I saw the same guy later in the restaurant at the hotel. The next day he goes, dude, you look so familiar. Do I know you? And I said, I don't know, but I get that a lot. Do you listen to podcasts? And he's like, I do all the time. I said, yeah, my name's Jordan Harbinger. He goes, oh of course i know who you are and he's like man i i hope i see you later i gotta take my kid uh upstairs whatever to change his diaper so then i saw him again and he was like hey why don't we go out to lunch or something my wife and i are here for the whole week our kids are at this mandarin school so we went out to lunch and it turned out that we have mutual friends and he's from la and he listens to the podcast so i ran into a show fan in china in a tier five city yeah that's so random that's beautiful i love that yeah and there's a whole expat group that goes to Dali every year with their kids from the US and Canada.

26:59And they send their kids to camps to learn Chinese. And there's a bunch of people from all over. So my son has, who's, by the way, they have these amazing video watches that are, every kid has this. It's basically a FaceTime watch. You can use it to call your parents or call your friends. And the parents have full control over it via an app. So you can block it during school. You can tell them who they can and can't call, you can block incoming calls from unknown numbers, all this stuff. But they can call us and be like, Mommy, I want this or I'm thirsty or something like that. And you're like, ask the counselor for water, you know, or they can call their friends after camp.

27:34It's cool. So anyway, every expat kid has this. And so we start meeting their parents, right? And they're like, Oh, yeah, we're from Toronto, or we're from LA or from the Bay Area. So we've made all these sort of like, WeChat, which is the Chinese Facebook, I guess, for lack of a better word, friends with all these other parents and they're like, yeah, we come here every year. This is our third year in a row, second year in a row. So there's this big expat thing here. And you'll see these people at expat places. Like if you go to an Australian owned pizza place, there'll be somebody there who's a parent of a kid that your kid goes to camp with or whatever.

28:06It's a whole thing. And it's weird because it's a smaller town.

28:08Gabriel Mizrahi:Do you see yourself coming back every year with the family to do these camps? I think so. I think instead of spending two weeks in Dali, because it is a little bit slower than we would like, we'll probably spend the same one week here and we'll do the same week in Taiwan, maybe then do a week in Shanghai, and then a week in another city. So there's other camps that people have recommended in Xinjiang, which is the place where the Uyghurs live, where there may or may not be an effort to wipe out the Muslim population by the Chinese government. And there's other cities like Xi 'an or towns that I would never normally go to that have camps for kids.

28:42And it's a great way to go, all right, I'll spend a week there. My kid's gone during the day so I can explore, and they're learning Chinese, and I'm learning Chinese as well. So yeah, we'll probably come back for a month every year until China invades Taiwan and it's unsafe for Americans to travel freely here. I don't know. That could be next year though.

28:57Gabriel Mizrahi:Who knows? That's amazing. This sounds dope, dude. It sounds like you're having a pretty good trip, hitting a lot of notes. Yeah, hitting a lot of notes. There's a lot of small time, I guess you could call them scams. You just have to be careful. We're with my wife's aunt and she's always negotiating things. She's like, oh, I heard you say this was 20, not 25. And she's like, okay, fine, because she figures they can upcharge Taurus. It kind of doesn't matter because you're talking about 80 cents, but yeah, it is nice to not get totally taken for a ride. Speaking of scams, actually, as I mentioned in the subreddit for the show, somebody's actually emailing people pretending to be me.

29:34They're sending emails from the email address jordan.harbinger.podcast at gmail.com. So the scam is basically come on the show, and then if you say, yeah, I'm interested, they tell you about all these logistics and then they say oh by the way there's a processing fee associated with onboarding and production obviously real shows don't do that so if you get an email from anyone saying they're me that is not from jordanharbinger.com just ignore it it's annoying and it's really skeezy but there's not much i can do other than warn people about this and i know that some people have said oh do you not sell sponsored episodes because i've into your show and I've heard a sponsored episode.

30:15Yeah, we sell sponsored episodes, but you're looking at five, six figures for something like that. And it's fully disclosed in the prices in the first email. And I don't do cold outreach to random people pretending I want them on the show and then offer them a paid spot. That's not how this works. That's a big brand comes to a sales agency that comes to me and says, we want an integration with BetterHelp where you interview your dad. And it's this whole thing. It's not, hey, I really like your book. By the way, if you send me 300 bucks, you can come on the show. That's what the scammer's doing.

30:44And we don't obviously do anything like that. So there's nothing I can really do about it. I tried to report the way that they take payment. And surprise, surprise, it's a guy in Nigeria whose name I actually have now. So I might do a little bit of like scam baiting somehow. I'm open to ideas. Wise Transfer, which is how he gets paid, said that since he's using a different email to send the scam and then he asked for payment to a separate email. They just washed their hands of the whole thing and said, it's not our problem. We can't do anything about it, which I think is bullshit. I think that's BS.

31:17I think that's a way for them to take scam illicit funds and pretend like it's not for a scam, even though I've connected the dots for them completely. So I think they should sort of be ashamed of themselves. But I also understand they have policies and they can't just ban somebody's name. So whatever. Don't pay people money to come on this show. I don't reach out to invite people and then charge for it. Anyway, I'm making a lot of memories here in China. And speaking of things made in China, let's hear a quick word from our sponsors and then we'll kick things off. This episode is also sponsored in part by BetterHelp.

31:49We have come a long way when it comes to talking about mental health. People are more willing to discuss stress, burnout, anxiety, and the challenges that they're dealing with. But what's interesting is that even though we talk about it more, actually reaching out for support can still feel like a hurdle. BetterHelp recently released its 2026 State of Stigma report, and the findings really stood out. 2 ,000 Americans surveyed revealed that 85 % believe getting support is wise, yet 74 % say that society discourages people from doing so. One of the ways we can change that is by treating mental health support the same way we treat any other kind of support.

32:21If a friend was struggling, would you encourage them to talk to somebody? I know many of us would. BetterHelp connects people with licensed therapists based on their needs and preferences through a brief questionnaire. And I mean brief. It takes like a few minutes at most. There's over 30 ,000 therapists on the platform and have helped over 6 million people globally. Live sessions have an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on more than 1.7 million client reviews. And if your first match isn't the right fit, switch any time. Don't let stigma stand in the way of support. Start therapy with BetterHelp.

32:48Sign up and get 10 % off at BetterHelp.com slash Jordan. That's BetterHelp.com slash Jordan. This episode is also sponsored by DripDrop. You might think electrolytes are mostly for athletes or really intense workouts, but for me, Drip Drop is more of an everyday reset. Travel, long work days, staying active, or that midday slump where water alone just doesn't seem to cut it, that's when I reach for Drip Drop. Drip Drop is doctor-developed, proven fast hydration that helps your body and mind work better. It uses science-based formulas for rapid hydration. It has science in it, folks. So you feel results fast while getting three times the electrolytes of leading sports drinks.

33:22It's what plants crave. It's trusted by firefighters, medical professionals, and over 90 % of top college and pro sports teams because it's engineered to hydrate you faster and more effectively than water alone. They also just dropped Zero Sugar Plus, a breakthrough formula with an advanced blend of six key electrolytes, 15 essential vitamins and nutrients, and no sugar or artificial sweeteners. There are 16 original flavors and eight Zero Sugar Plus options, my favorite being the strawberry lemonade, thank me later. And on a personal note, Drip Drop was a lifesaver on our trip to China, something we ate did not sit well with us.

33:52Surprise, surprise, probably a bug, a slug or something that rhymes with those two things. And we spent a few days in full digestive distress. I'll spare you the details. Just use your imagination, folks. But we were very glad we had Drip Drop packed to help us stay hydrated. And right now, Drip Drop is offering podcast listeners 20 % off your first order. Go to dripdrop.com and use promo code Jordan. That's dripdrop.com, promo code Jordan for 20 % off. Stock up now at dripdrop.com, promo code Jordan. Also, in case you don't know, there's a subreddit for the show. If you want to jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes or anything about the show, again, that's where I posted that PSA about the scam.

34:26You can always find us on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. All right, Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?

34:34Gabriel Mizrahi:Dear Jordan and Gabe, I've had health issues my whole life. I've had inflammatory conditions like asthma and eczema for as long as I can remember. When I was in ninth grade, I had an asthmatic flare-up and was put on prednisone as usual to treat it. But the combination of hormones raging during puberty and a rare side effect of steroids landed me in the hospital once again. After six months of being impatient, the doctors realized that I was suffering from a steroid-induced psychosis. Holy smokes, I've never heard of that. That is terrifying. Once they figured out the right mix of medications that would get me through this episode, I slowly went back to school.

35:14Gabriel Mizrahi:First school from home, then gradually back to in-classroom learning. I graduated from high school on time and was looking forward to playing football at a Division III college. My goal was to get a degree in marketing, get a nice job, and start a new chapter in my life. My sophomore year, I started dating the person who would become my wife and got a little playing time on the field. But I ended up tearing ligaments in my knee and ankle, sidelining me. So I decided to focus more on school and on my future. The summer between my sophomore and junior year, I was offered a house painting franchise to bring to the college city where I lived.

35:50Gabriel Mizrahi:I took the offer and employed five people to paint houses for the summer. My second summer as a franchise manager, I employed an average of 10 people and had two crews going. My then-girlfriend, now-wife, helped me now and then. Fast forward to my fourth year in college. After realizing that running a painting business wasn't my thing, I turned down the offer for a bigger territory and took a job at Best Buy as a computer salesperson. During finals week, I didn't get much sleep. I had erratic behavior and I maxed out all my credit cards in one day. I had delusions of grandeur and thought that I was going to own Best Buy.

36:28Gabriel Mizrahi:This was my first manic episode. Oh man, that is intense. My co-workers were concerned and got a hold of my girlfriend, and I was hospitalized once again. Everything that I bought, my manager returned. My credit cards wouldn't be maxed out after all. This was one less thing that I would have to think about while in the hospital. I was then diagnosed with unipolar mania and put on a medication that got me out of the mania and out of the hospital. So unipolar mania meaning only mania, no depressive episodes? No depressive. Apparently that's a thing. The person swings up but never down. I've never heard of this.

37:05Gabriel Mizrahi:I had never heard of this either. I read up on it and it sounds like researchers have debated for a while whether unipolar mania is a subtype of bipolar disorder or maybe it's a completely distinct disorder or maybe some people think it's just an early phase of bipolar disorder before the depression eventually appears. The DSM-5 does not recognize unipolar mania as its own official diagnosis. Apparently if someone has had even one full manic episode, they're generally diagnosed with bipolar 1, even if they've never been depressed. Interesting, but it is different because they don't have those dips.

37:39Gabriel Mizrahi:Which is why some researchers think it obscures a potentially distinct condition, which our friend here seems to have. But also interesting, there's some evidence that people with unipolar mania differ from typical bipolar patients. There are some studies that have found that people with unipolar mania like him have more psychotic symptoms and more grandiosity, but less suicidality, less anxiety, less rapid cycling, and they sometimes have better long-term functioning. Got it. So it kind of is its own thing, but the classification and treatment might not be very different. So he goes on, I am very grateful for the medication that brought me back to reality, except for one side effect, weight gain.

38:18Gabriel Mizrahi:I gained over 200 pounds while on the medicine and developed type two diabetes as a result. That's a brutal side effect. I'm sorry to hear that. All of this while my girlfriend stayed by my side. Dang, well, she's a real one. We married in 2002. I graduated with a bachelor's in marketing in 2004, and we had our first daughter in 2005. Our oldest son was born in 2007, our youngest son in 2011. I needed to lose this weight, not only for me, but for my family. So in 2010, after many failed attempts to lose weight, I had gastric bypass surgery. I went to therapy to make sure that I would be able to comply with the weight loss surgery diet.

38:59Gabriel Mizrahi:I lost the weight that I had gained and became a stay-at-home dad when our daughter was born. Then, recently, my son, who's 18 now, needed an upper endoscopy done. I went with him to his appointment and the doctor asked if there was a family history of throat issues. While technically we haven't had throat issues, I have had an endoscopy done along with a colonoscopy because they wanted to make sure that the bypass was still okay. I told our son that I've had one done, and it's nothing to be worried about, and that he'd do fine. My son asked why I had the endoscopy done, and I redirected the question to something else.

39:34Gabriel Mizrahi:None of my kids know about my unipolar mania diagnosis or the gastric bypass surgery. I don't think that they would judge me, I'm just uncomfortable talking to them about this. There's a stigma that goes along with both of these, and I'm not sure that I want to burden them with this information. However, when taking family medical histories, it might be important in the future for them to know about my diagnoses. Now that my children are young adults, how much do I tell them about my medical history? Or do I only tell them if something comes up? Signed, feeling jittery about sharing my history, but knowing it might be trickery and lead to a greater injury, to not do it swiftly before it becomes an inquiry.

40:15Wow, what a journey you've been on, man. This is pretty wild. So first off, I'm sorry you went through all this health stuff over the years, that it led to psychosis and mania. I can only imagine how terrifying all of that must have been for you, of course, but also for your family growing up, your wife, and then you get the weight gain on the medication. It's just a lot for one person to go through, and it's awful, frankly. And that said, it sounds like you've moved through all of this extremely well, all things considered. You still managed to achieve what you wanted to achieve. You took proactive steps to lose the extra weight, and your wife was a huge part of all that.

40:48I think you're one lucky dude. So this is an interesting question, whether to tell your kids about all this. On one hand, I think they deserve to know that they might have inherited something that they need to keep an eye on. Like if they ever need to take prednisone, which I took for like a sinus infection that swolled up something back in the day, they can tell their doctor, hey, you know, my dad had steroid induced psychosis once. Maybe we should explore other options or sure, let's try it. But you need to keep a close eye on me and we need to have a plan. I think it would also be good for them to know that if they ever started to have racing thoughts, grandiose ideas, weird, impulsive behavior, they start sleeping three hours a night.

41:24They got to tell a friend or a family member. They got to see a psychiatrist because dad has this too. It's not from studying too hard. It's not going to go away on its own. You know, don't ignore it. Now, we don't know if your condition is hereditary. It might just be a strange quirk of your body and you didn't pass it on to your kids. But I read up on this briefly, and the latest research does suggest that, yeah, unipolar mania, like bipolar disorder, it does tend to run in families. And there's a significant genetic component to these disorders overall. So if I were your kids, I think I'd want to know.

41:56And if telling them what you went through helps them avoid psychosis or mania, which, as you know, can be very scary and disruptive, it can lead to further complications. Yeah, I think it's worth telling them. And I think they deserve to know.

42:08Gabriel Mizrahi:Not just for them, but for their future children, too, if this is genetic. 100%, man. Also, sometimes certain substances can trigger stuff like this. I remember I grew up with a girl, and she had some kind of epilepsy that was totally under control and never really had to worry about it as a kid. and then she went to college and I think she smoked marijuana a couple of times and she started having these seizures and she told her parents and they were like yeah you have epilepsy and it was basically I think I don't know if dormant is the right word but it the marijuana triggered this and now she had severe epilepsy for a while she had to get it back under control which is terrible I think she would have avoided trying marijuana if she'd known that that was going to do it.

42:49On the other hand, I don't know, man, disclosing all this.

42:52Gabriel Mizrahi:What if they never experience any of this? Then what do they do with it? Right. And then they go their whole lives, low key panicking that any moment they're going to flip into mania or have some kind of hallucination or they avoid medication that could help them because they're terrified they're going to induce psychosis. I mean, that would be very unfortunate because even if family members inherit the gene, they don't necessarily inherit the exact same presentation or any presentation. these genes often transmit vulnerability patterns rather than perfectly identical diagnoses. Also, environment and triggers still matter, like your friend with a substance or someone else studying too hard, being stressed out and underslept or whatever.

43:29Gabriel Mizrahi:So even if somebody inherits the vulnerability, life events, environment, biology, they all influence whether episodes actually end up emerging. Yeah, but honestly, all things considered, I think you have more to gain by sharing this information than by hiding it. I completely agree. And if my math is math-in, your kids are 21, 18, and 15 now. They're definitely old enough to have this conversation. Definitely. I mean, his 18-year-old son is asking him medical questions directly, and our friend is dodging them. I think if his son is asking, he's ready to hear the truth. I'm just going to guess that he probably noticed that dad got a little cagey when he asked about the endoscopy, so he's probably wondering, like, what is this about?

44:04For sure. But look, I wouldn't say to your kids, hey, I started hearing voices when I was a kid because they gave me prednisone, and then I thought I was going to become the CEO of Best So, hey, watch out. I would frame it more like I want to share a couple of things about my medical history that you should know. It's nothing you need to be actively afraid of. It's very possible none of this will ever happen to you. But this is information I want you to have so you can take good care of yourself. I would be specific about the triggers that led to these episodes. Steroids, stress, lack of sleep, whatever else it was.

44:35So they can make sure that they're aware of those inputs. I would also be specific about the symptoms you experienced. So if they ever go through anything similar, they can stop and go, OK, this sounds like what dad told me about time to ask for help. And by the way, I would also tell them about the autoimmune and inflammatory issues because those are genetic, too. So I wouldn't wait until something comes up to tell them because then it'll be too late to get out ahead of it.

44:58Gabriel Mizrahi:Plus, they might resent you for keeping it a secret. That's another problem. Yeah, man, I think I would like, oh, you could have told me not to get this medication. And now I have a life altering mental health issue. Thanks for telling me. you should tell them. There's another good reason to tell them, which is I have a feeling it's going to bring you guys closer. It's going to set a good example for your kids. And for you, it's probably going to feel like a huge relief because you're sitting on these secrets. Yeah. One big reason he hasn't said anything is that he's ashamed. Right. Like he said, there's a stigma and now he doesn't want to talk about it.

45:26And he might be right about that stigma to some degree. People might have all sorts of opinions about this stuff. I mean, sure.

45:32Gabriel Mizrahi:But if he's carrying that around, he's internalized that now he's ashamed. And so he's anticipating that his kids are going to have the worst possible opinion as well. Yeah, but he doesn't need to be ashamed. I mean, this wasn't his fault. No, and if he tells them, I think he'll be modeling some really nice stuff for them, you know, vulnerability and openness around his health. And if he keeps withholding these facts, to your point, Jordan, that might create some unintended consequences for his kids later. Confusion, mistrust, a sense that there was this whole part of dad's life that they weren't invited to, even though they sensed there was something going on, I would sidestep that.

46:04Exactly. You don't need to come out to your family as the mentally ill dad or whatever. You can present yourself as the dad who went through serious medical and psychiatric challenges and learned how to manage them responsibly.

46:14Gabriel Mizrahi:And here's what I learned through that experience. Here's what I could have done better. Here's what I'd want you to know if this ever happens to you. Exactly. Honestly, I think that's going to be a pretty powerful conversation for all of them. They'll understand their father more. He'll feel less ashamed. They'll hopefully feel more prepared. I think that's the way to go. The only other thing I would say is I can't tell from your letter if you're still on medication for the unipolar mania. The way you worded your letter makes it sound like you might have gone off of it, but I'm not sure. Yeah, because he said, I gained over 200 pounds while on the medicine.

46:41Yeah, it does sound like he might have gone off

46:44Gabriel Mizrahi:of the medicine. So a little unclear. We might be wrong. I understand that he might have wanted to be done with it after these side effects. But if you did go off the medication, I just would say I hope you're working closely with your psychiatrist and I hope they're on board with this and you're all keeping a close eye on any new symptoms, because it sounds like you do have a predisposition for certain disorders. Yeah, I'm a little confused about that, Gabe. So the psychosis he experienced as a teenager, that's got to be related to the mania he experienced as an adult, right? Or was he just unlucky when he was a kid?

47:14Gabriel Mizrahi:I have the same question. I guess it's impossible for us to know, but I did look into this a little bit, and apparently a lot of psychiatrists would consider later spontaneous mania potentially meaningful in a person with a history of steroid-induced psychosis. Interesting. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. The steroid reaction might have revealed an underlying mood component that later emerged, you know, independently. Yeah, like the steroids might have triggered the first episode, but there was something there already just waiting to emerge. I think that's especially true if the earlier steroid episode looked strongly manic, and if any episodes recur later in life without substances or medications.

47:52Which is what happened, right? The manic episode in college, That wasn't precipitated by any medication or substance. It's just finals, stress, and lack of sleep.

47:59Gabriel Mizrahi:And that's why I hope he's continuing to be treated appropriately, whatever that looks like. This is sort of beside the point, but I'm also very curious about the weight gain. I mean, over 200 pounds, type 2 diabetes. I know weight gain is a common side effect of a lot of medications. I know some medications can do a number on appetite and glucose regulation, insulin function, but that just sounds pretty extreme to me. And look, I'm talking out of school here. I'm not a psychiatrist. I don't know how any of these medications work or the mechanisms or anything, but I just want to ask, while you were on this medication, were you also eating well?

48:30Were you exercising? Were you giving yourself every possible advantage? And I ask, look, I'm thrilled that you reversed the weight gain. Gastric bypass surgery is just one of those miracles of modern science for a lot of people, but I also want to make sure that you're making the necessary lifestyle changes and continue to take care of yourself and make sure the weight doesn't come back and fully enjoy the benefits of these changes. because everything I've read about these procedures and the drugs, whether it's gastric bypass or GLP-1 drugs, if you don't make real changes to your lifestyle, you can undo a lot of the benefits or just give yourself another set of problems entirely.

49:04For example, with both GLP-1s and gastric bypass surgery, some people, look, I'm not implying you're one of these people at all, but I know it happens to a lot of users of these medications. Sometimes they just eat less, but then they still eat crap, and they end up with muscle wasting and bone loss, and they've lost the weight, but they're not really healthy. And it's a big problem. So it's just something to keep an eye on. Anyway, I'm very sorry that you went through all this, man. It's very intense. But I'm super proud of you for weathering the storm and taking steps to get better. And I think your family will be too.

49:35And they're going to be grateful for the medical information. So good luck with the conversations. I think it's going to be good for all of you. Sending you and your family a big hug and wishing you all the best. You know what else is out of control? The manically good deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show. and you won't have to max out your credit cards to enjoy them. We'll be right back.

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50:51Don't pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for what you can get from Northwest for free. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com slash jordanfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com slash jordanfree. This episode is also sponsored by AG1. Summer travel is great, but it definitely throws off the routine. You're sleeping in different beds, eating at weird times, dealing with long days, late nights, whatever airport food situation you've been forced into. For me, that's where AG1 is nice because it's the one thing that stays consistent.

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51:51So even if summer means late nights, long weekends, and spontaneous plans, AG1 helps keep one part of your morning easy and consistent. Visit drinkag1.com slash Jordan to get a free AG1 travel case with seven free AG1 travel packs in your welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription. Order while supplies last. That's drinkag1.com slash Jordan. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. Your support of the advertisers keeps the lights on around here in China, I guess. All the deals and discounts are searchable and clickable on the website that I can't really access from here, jordanharbinger.com slash deals.

52:22Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, next up.

52:29Gabriel Mizrahi:Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I met my wife back in college, and we've been married for over 10 years now. We have two great kids, ages 8 and 10. For the most part, we still work really well together as a team to run our household and raise our children. We occasionally have fights, but it never gets to be unbearable or destructive. However, behind closed doors, I am profoundly unhappy. What I needed from a relationship back in my early 20s is very different from what I need now. Over the years, our dynamic has morphed entirely into a platonic friendship. PDA is non-existent, and our sex life has completely stopped.

53:07Gabriel Mizrahi:I feel like I'm living with a co-parent and a roommate rather than a romantic partner. Yeah, I'm very sorry to hear that, man. The pitfall of so many married couples happens all the time. Recently, the emotional toll of this void came to a head. I was at a tech conference in Vegas and ended up meeting a woman with whom I instantly hit it off. Ooh, boy. What happens in Vegas ends up on Feedback Friday, am I right? Exactly, yes. Feedback Friday, no antibiotics necessary. You don't have to file a report with the CDC when you're spreading that sweet feedback Friday tea. To be clear, absolutely nothing physical happened at the conference.

53:45Gabriel Mizrahi:Ah, it's a bummer. No, I kid. Bad influence, Jordan. Keep it quiet. Yeah, sorry. But we exchanged information and kept in touch after we both flew home. Yeah, that's the real transmission. Those hidden WhatsApp chats. As we got to chatting, I learned that she's in an eerily similar boat. She also has two kids and is feeling trapped in an unhappy relationship of her own. The catch is that she lives out in Indiana while I'm in California. Over the last few weeks, our text messages have escalated. They've gone from casual check-ins to getting incredibly deep and flirty. Honestly, it's starting to feel like an actual relationship.

54:24Well, it is a relationship of sorts.

54:27Gabriel Mizrahi:This connection has woken up a part of me that's been dormant for years, but it's bringing up a lot of confusion and guilt. The risks of dismantling my family are huge. A huge part of me wants to hold onto the marriage for the kids' sake so we don't blow up their lives. But I'm completely lost about how to overcome this lingering unhappiness in my marriage. Is emotional cheating a real thing? And is that what I'm doing right now? Yes. Yes, it's a real thing. And yes, that's what you're doing right now. I'm not judging you, by the way, at all. I just want to answer your question, honestly. why you're emotionally cheating and whether it's fair that you feel drawn to this person and what to do about it.

55:06Those are separate questions.

55:07Gabriel Mizrahi:Given that I feel like I might eventually leave my wife down the road anyway, is this long distance connection something I can or should try to sustain for the long term? What an interesting way to phrase that. I feel like I might eventually leave my wife. He's phrasing it like it's almost a done deal, but he's not. Yeah, he's not saying I've made up my mind. It's happening. I just need a couple months to get my ducks in a row. He's still very much figuring this out. Or using this as a kind of excuse, like, well, since I might do this, what I'm doing is okay. I'm not saying he's doing that. That's just a possibility.

55:41But I think it makes talking to this other woman riskier and messier.

55:45Gabriel Mizrahi:How should I navigate these next steps? Signed, keeping these feelings at bay and debating whether my marriage is irreversibly frayed when my head is being turned the other way. Right. Well, fascinating situation. It's funny, Gabe. his letter is unique in certain ways. Meeting a woman at this conference, she's in Indiana, all that. But his overall situation, this dilemma he finds himself in, it's so universal, right? This is the story of so many married couples. He didn't tell us why they ended up here. I'm sure their particular story is unique. But I think this is a familiar arc for most people, and it's really tough, man.

56:17Between work and kids and the responsibilities of managing a family, it can be really hard to keep the spark alive. It's kind of like last priority for most people.

56:25Gabriel Mizrahi:Yeah, that's what I hear. And also to grow together, it sounds like his needs are very different now. He's in a different place. That's the other complicated variable. Are you guys growing and are you growing in a compatible way or in a, you know, we're going separate directions and we're different people now kind of way. Such an interesting question. Like, what does it take to sustain a relationship for decades when it comes to, like, personal evolution, you know? Is it evolving along similar lines, or is it making room for both people to evolve in different ways, but then, I don't know, staying connected on a few key dimensions?

56:56Yeah, like you could say it's about staying connected on a few key dimensions, but then if you're staying connected on those dimensions for decades, does that require the two parties to not change too dramatically? I don't know. It's tough. I mean, all that to say, I feel for you and your wife, but you're not alone in this pattern. And that said, how you navigate this period, what you decide to do, how you communicate with your wife, how you conduct yourself, especially with this other woman, all that is just going to make a huge difference in the quality of your outcome, whatever choice you end up making.

57:25I think you know that if you continue engaging with this woman, whether or not you guys actually meet up, you're going to invite some significant risks. The biggest one, of course, is that your wife finds out and she's probably going to be pretty hurt. And then the narrative that's going to define the end of your marriage is going to be, well, he cheated on me, even if the story is more complicated than that. And that could have ripple effects on the divorce agreement, on custody of your kids, on your reputation with your friends and your family. It can get bad. But even if she doesn't find out, I think you're going to be left with even more stress and guilt, and that's not going to be fun to live with either.

57:59So there's kind of no good scenario here if you keep talking to this woman while you're married. That said, I do understand why you're in this situation. I can appreciate why this new person with different qualities, similar conflict, without the same history that you have with your wife, I get why that person is compelling to you, and I can imagine why you're compelling to her. I say that not to necessarily endorse this relationship. I just say that to say, I understand why this relationship is meaningful to you.

58:25Gabriel Mizrahi:Yeah, I mean, these things don't just happen by accident. So my advice to you is this. I would think of this new woman as a person who's generating some really important data for you rather than a truly viable option. And what I mean by that is if you're this compelled to explore things with her, even emotionally, then she's revealing something important about you, what you want in a partner, what you want from life, what you can offer. Like you said, this connection has woken up a part of me that's been dormant for years, what that part is beyond just, I don't know, dopamine and butterflies, that's super important for you to name and understand for you.

58:59The other thing she's revealing is there's obviously something that needs your attention in your marriage. And it sounds to me like you guys have to make some changes in order to do right by each other. I understand that this woman feels like a viable option to you. I suppose in a way she is a viable option. You could leave your wife for her. She could leave her husband for you. Who knows? Maybe you guys would be great together or not. You don't know. I don't know if there's any reliable data out there about this, but the first person you meet when you're in an unhappy marriage, the success of those relationships has got to be in the single digits, the long-term success.

59:31I'm not saying that this relationship is definitely doomed. I'm not saying it's all in your head. I'm just saying your situation is probably informing a lot of your feelings about this person slash she's revealing feelings you weren't fully in touch with. So given all that, I think you have more to gain by really taking stock of what she's revealing about your current situation than you do by actually exploring things with her.

59:52Gabriel Mizrahi:I completely agree. And that's especially true because he does not know at this stage how things would actually go with this new person. It's so abstract. It's so aspirational. Exactly. This woman represents something that his current situation is not offering him or he gets to be a certain way with this other person. He can't be with his wife, with his family, but he doesn't know how they would actually be together if this relationship even has legs. And also, they don't know what new challenges, and there will be challenges, there always are, will pop up if they did get together. It's easy to be like, I think this could be my person when you don't have to pay bills together or clean out the garage or manage your kids' schedules together or any of that.

1:00:30It's all fun and games when you're sexting on Signal, which I know he's not doing, but you get my point.

1:00:34Gabriel Mizrahi:So there's almost certainly an element of fantasy at play here that's important for him to keep an eye on, too. Yeah, man. Idealization is at its peak at this stage. His mind is probably full of a lot of ideas about how this could be in an alternate universe. So really the question before you is, what changes do you want to make in your life? I'm talking apart from this woman. Now what those changes are, that's up to you. If there's a world where you and your wife could work on things, talk about where you guys have ended up, find a way back to each other, meet each other's needs better, maybe go to couples therapy, that might be the move.

1:01:06If you feel it is truly over, you guys are just fundamentally different people with different needs and there's no putting the genie back in the bottle, then it's probably time to redefine the relationship or separate. And those are really your two options. Both are legit. Both are honest and thoughtful, in my opinion. It's not easy and it's not fun, but it is responsible.

1:01:23Gabriel Mizrahi:I suppose you do have a third option, which is to keep chugging along in your marriage, but stay unhappy. Yeah, well, obviously that's not the healthy option. No, it's just an option a lot of people choose on some level. It's the short term easiest option. How's that? Long term crappiest. But man, he is in a real bind. He's unhappy, but he feels that dismantling his family is too painful. He wants to stay together for the kids. It's tough. And I totally get that, man. It is sad. But you know, my stance on the whole got to stay together for the kids thing. I mean, most therapists agree is just not a great idea.

1:01:54Gabriel Mizrahi:I mean, is that true? I don't know. I feel like therapists have a range of opinions about that based on I don't know. But yeah, I understand your stance. I share your view to a large degree. That's not necessarily achieving what he hopes it will for the kids. I understand that every family, every couple, every situation, they're all different. And for some families, the upsides to staying together might be more important than the costs. But generally speaking, I just don't know how growing up in a home where mom and dad don't love each other and where there's this quiet, unspoken resentment and distance, I don't know how that's ultimately better, if that is, in fact, how it is now.

1:02:27Gabriel Mizrahi:You could argue that that's also kind of dismantling the family in a way, or it's already dismantled. Living under the same roof does not automatically equal healthy. It doesn't automatically equal happy. And it doesn't necessarily equal together. I'm not saying he needs to separate from his wife ASAP or anything. Like I said, they could absolutely choose to work on things. But I would really explore this idea that staying in this unhappy marriage, if you come to the conclusion that it can't be saved, is actually the best thing for everyone involved. It's a question. You get to answer it. I'm just posing the question.

1:02:57Gabriel Mizrahi:Oh, man, he has some very big decisions to make here. This is intense. He does, and I don't envy him at all. So one of those decisions is, do I want to work on things in the first place? another one is how does my own happiness fit into this equation you know whose interest should come first in this family yeah but there's also a question inside of that which is what are their interests really like does he really know what's best for him and his wife right now you mean like his wife might be unhappy and open to a change as well yeah his wife might also be open to a change what looks like breaking up his family might might redefine things in a way that creates more harmony I'm not saying it will.

1:03:33I'm not telling him to leave. I'm just appreciating, you know, part of his confusion is that he doesn't actually know what's best for everyone right now.

1:03:40Gabriel Mizrahi:It's a really interesting point. All he can see right now is the risk and the potential hurt. Yeah. But I guess that's another question he needs to get clear on. Can I make room for my own wants and needs when pursuing those wants and needs will probably create some amount of disruption, some amount of pain to my family for a time? That's got to be the hardest one. It's really tough because he doesn't want to be the bad guy, obviously. He doesn't want to hurt his wife and kids. He doesn't want to bear their difficult feelings toward him. But then avoiding that scenario is what keeps people trapped in unhappy marriages, right?

1:04:12Gabriel Mizrahi:So I think it's important for him to accept, and I say this like you, Jordan, I'm not trying to push him to this decision. It's just important to recognize, I think in general, if he wants something to change, there's no scenario where he doesn't hurt anyone. Man, it's so tough to come to terms with. If he decides to work on things with his wife, right? If they talk things out, they go to therapy, they get deep into this stuff, whatever it looks like, they're going to have to say some things to each other that are probably going to hurt a little bit. If he decides to separate and redefine their relationship, that's also going to hurt.

1:04:43Right, and no way around it, really.

1:04:45Gabriel Mizrahi:So that might be one of the first big things he needs to work through, just coming to terms with that fact and what it brings up for him, which is complicated for everyone, but especially for people who, for example, struggle with conflict or aren't used to articulating their feelings or asserting their needs, which, who knows, might be part of the reason he and his wife ended up where they ended up, and developing his capacity to bear his family's hurt, if that comes to pass, and also developing his tools for caring for that hurt. I think that's also really important. Yeah, there's so much around this decision that he needs to work on.

1:05:17But look, whatever you decide here, I think it's going to be messier and riskier if you keep talking to this woman. If you want to approach this as cleanly and fairly as possible, whether you stay or you separate, you should probably say goodbye to her at least for a little while. Obviously, that's going to avoid a ton of risk to you personally. I think it's also going to give you some peace and integrity that will probably be very helpful. if you end up dating this woman down the line, your origin story is always going to be a little messy. And your wife, if she finds out about the timeline, that's a whole separate topic.

1:05:47She might always have some difficult feelings about that. Understandably so. But she's going to have way more difficult feelings and a lot more ammunition in a divorce if she finds out that you were talking to this woman while you were still married or more.

1:06:00Gabriel Mizrahi:Also, if it turns out that these two really are a great match and they do get together down the line, they might feel better about it if their relationship did not start as a full-blown affair for both of them. Yeah, that's a good point. And I realize it's a little dicey already to say, hey, sorry, I can't talk to you anymore while I'm married, but I'm going to text you in six months. There's already some carrying on in there. You're basically putting your side piece on ice, so it's complicated. But putting things on ice is still way better than popping them open and spraying champagne everywhere.

1:06:30Sorry for that gross metaphor, but you know what I mean. Gross. The choice is yours, of course, but this is the cleaner thing to do. So you have some big stuff to think about. I would encourage you to genuinely actively think about it, not just stuff it down and muddle through or pull the trigger and bounce because there's a shiny new thing over here. Get clear with yourself on your needs, your values, your priorities. Talk about it with some safe people. It might be a really good time to start seeing a therapist if you aren't already. Maybe that's even more valuable before couples therapy to explore all these questions, get clear on some things.

1:07:02The confusion you feel, the guilt, they're normal, they're appropriate, but they are symptoms of these conflicts that need resolving. I hope that gives you some new perspectives here, man, and good luck. By the way, you can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job a whole lot easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, your friend's mother is keeping her baby from her, or you accidentally found out your brother is gay and you don't know whether to tell his wife, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday at jordanharbinger.com.

1:07:31We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. You know what's less risky than a whirlwind fling in Vegas? Getting all up in the steamy deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

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1:08:23Take a moment, support our amazing sponsors. All of the deals and discounts are searchable and clickable on the website at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. If that doesn't work, email us jordan at jordanharbinger.com. We'll happily dig up codes for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. And now for the recommendation of the week. I am addicted to lit filler.

1:08:44Gabriel Mizrahi:My Wreck of the Week comes courtesy of one of our listeners named Ben. Ben wrote us recently saying, I recently learned that my firm is going through yet another round of layoffs in the next three to four months. My job may or may not be eliminated. Only time will tell. I started thinking about how I could upskill and stay competitive in case I found myself thrust into the job market. I turned to AI for help, and I wanted to share the prompt that I created with your listeners. The prompt was this. I'm a senior copywriting professional with 25 years of experience in the financial services industry, including 20 years at my current firm.

1:09:19Gabriel Mizrahi:With potential layoffs on the horizon, I want to proactively prepare for a job transition in the next three months. Assume I will be entering the job market at that time. Create a practical three-month learning and development plan to help me upskill, stay competitive, and position myself for new opportunities. Focus on areas that are most relevant and valuable for someone with my background. For example, modern marketing skills, emerging tools, digital platforms, AI, portfolio development, job search strategy, etc. That is so smart. Isn't it? I love this. And then he goes on to say requirements.

1:09:54Gabriel Mizrahi:Use only free high quality resources, and he lists some of those examples. Structure the plan week by week, 12 weeks total. Break each week into clear, actionable daily assignments. Assume I can commit about five hours a week total with about an hour per day on week days, make the plan simple to follow, highly practical, easy to execute without interpretation. Goal, help me level up my skills, build confidence, and be fully prepared to compete for my next role by the end of the three months. It's a great use case. I love that. So he shared the results and the AI gave him this exactly what he asked for, a week-by-week roadmap with courses to complete and software to learn.

1:10:33Gabriel Mizrahi:It gave him assignments and deliverables and milestones and next steps that included even how to update his resume in light of what he will be learning. Basically, a whole personalized game plan to position himself for these jobs that he would be applying to if he gets laid off. Such a good idea. I thought it was really neat. Of course, you actually have to do what it says to get the benefits, but what an amazing... Yeah, that's the real drag. But what an amazing leg up for anybody who's entering the job market. It's like having a career coach who's managing your whole strategy for free. Literally, you could also do this for every part of the job search, relationship building, thought leadership, preparing for your first performance review.

1:11:10It's crazy how far you could take this.

1:11:12Gabriel Mizrahi:Seriously. And also like any field, any career, any level in your, if somebody in high school could do this about how to get their job, it's just crazy. I thought you guys would enjoy that. So I just wanted to pass it along. That's my recommendation of the week using AI to prepare for potential layoffs or just a job search that is coming up under whatever circumstances. And again, big thanks to Ben for sharing this one with us. I hope your job is safe, Ben. But if you happen to be laid off, you are going to be in the best possible position. And I love the hustle. Nicely done. Before we wrap up today, I wanted to talk about a wee bit wiser newsletter we sent out a couple weeks ago that got some very passionate responses.

1:11:49The subject line was saw your name in the Epstein files. Maybe you remember it if you got that newsletter. The first line of the newsletter, when you open it, it said, just kidding, obviously, I wanted to see the open rate on this newsletter. The newsletter went on to say that basically, if you're going to hook someone's curiosity, whether it's a clickbaity subject line or something you drop in a conversation or the promise of an online course, whatever it is, that curiosity needs to be rewarded with substance, real substance. If it is rewarded with real substance, then the hook, which is marketing, basically, it's fair game.

1:12:16And then it's gratifying and useful for both parties. If that curiosity isn't rewarded with genuine substance, then it's just manipulative. It's just cynical marketing, which is sadly what a lot of content in the world is these days. and that was the point of the newsletter, that if you're going to do something shamelessly clickbaity with the subject line, then it better be in service of something worthwhile, or at least try to. So the whole saw your name in the Epstein files thing, that was both a silly bit and a way to illustrate the very point that we were making in the newsletter. And our hope was that if people got to the end of the newsletter, they'd be like, oh, huh, interesting, that did lead somewhere meaningful.

1:12:49That was a real key takeaway here. And that is what most of you took away from it. And a lot of you guys hit me back saying, man, great point, thank you for this. Several of you were like, oh, I'm dying at my desk at work. I've been chuckling about this all day. Well played. A few people said they were stealing this. And many of you wrote in with some really cool examples of how you're living by this principle in your own life, promoting your novel or grabbing people's attention in meetings or marketing yourselves online. That all made my day because, you know, that was the whole point of the newsletter.

1:13:18And then there was a handful of people, surprise, surprise, that actually hated it. A couple of people wrote back like, cheap trick, unsubscribed. Another person said, oh, you lost credibility with me on this. It was creative when I saw it six months ago. It's lazy and annoying. Some people felt that the whole thing was stupid. Other people said it would be traumatizing for others. Another person hit me back saying, and I quote, I'm not into tricking people with clickbait. Integrity is a priority. If that means I die broke, so be it. We need to stop playing games with our fellow human beings. Do better, live better, love better, give better.

1:13:47It can be done. Give it a try. You better take that note, Jordan. I'm just saying. I guess so. I know, living better, giving better, not something I think about or spend any time thinking about or talking about on this show, right?

1:13:57Gabriel Mizrahi:Not at all. It's not like you have a whole keynote speech about it or anything like that. No, that's a good idea. I should get on that. I think my favorite one, my favorite response was, the Epstein files are a record of horrendous acts against humanity. Using them to increase email open rates is despicable. I don't care how you spin it. It is not okay and in a way has you coming off as someone who agrees with it. And then when I gently challenged this person, told them most people found it silly, clever, asked if they were having a rough day or anything like that. They said, telling me I must be in a bad mood.

1:14:26Others are okay with it, which I doubt or changing the topic does not negate that you fail to take accountability for this. So all that got me thinking about a few things. And I just wanted to take a moment here and reflect on them because I find this really interesting. First of all, anybody who listens to the show, especially Feedback Friday, I think they know the spirit Gabe and I come with this stuff with. They know what we care about, what we stand for. I think it's pretty obvious that it's not, you know, pedophilia and human trafficking. y 'all know we're not out to hurt anyone or even laugh at the substance of these crimes even though Gabe's laughing right now second I knew this newsletter would ruffles and feathers that was part of the point and I welcome these responses even if I ultimately disagree with them I also

1:15:02Gabriel Mizrahi:feel there's a difference between a listener who pops off with a takedown because they're angry at their desk and fires off a response in two minutes and a listener who says listen I love the show but this one was a miss for me for this reason and that reason I just want to let you know of course The second thing is totally fair, totally fine. I appreciate the respectful criticism, even if I ultimately disagree. What I find curious is the people who are just outrageously offended by this, who almost seem to be going out of their way to be offended, or who were choosing to interpret the spirit of the newsletter very narrowly in order to become offended, and who felt that then it was worth their time and energy to express their offense, but who, when I was like, hey, cool, I hear you, but did you read the actual newsletter?

1:15:45They were like, no, I saw the subject line and I was turned off or I got halfway through the first paragraph and I gave up because Epstein, Bill Gates, child trafficking, something psyops. Show some respect, Jordan. And I'm like, OK, totally fine to critique the premise. But if you didn't even read the newsletter, the newsletter that is at least trying to make a meaningful point that is actually, if I do say so myself, a pretty clever piece that's actually referencing itself and paying off the very thing that's pissing you off, then what is there to talk about? You're not only not engaging a good faith with the thing you want to tear down, but you're actually deciding what it means or what it represents or what we intended rather than taking an extra few minutes, not even few minutes, a minute to see if there was anything of value to be gleaned even a little bit.

1:16:30All so you can protect your position or worse, just have a reason to get mad, which I find kind of lazy intellectually and very easy ethically. it takes a little extra work to say hey i've got strong feelings about the whole epstein thing which by the way that is appropriate it's obviously horrible but you know let me see what these guys are actually saying here and then decide what it means and how angry i should be as a result and by the way just to state the obvious this newsletter had nothing to do with jeffrey epstein and substance and it had everything to do with curiosity and attention and what we owe an audience our audience i kind of understand when people go icky epstein i don't know cheap trick i get it i I kind of even agree.

1:17:09But I just can't with people who are like, how dare you co-opt the Mossad pedophiles crimes to promote your sponsors? Show some respect for the children, the babies being eaten by the Democrats. I mean, we're literally talking about a newsletter that was about how to do right by your audience. It's so absurd. But I guess that's the other thing that these responses made me realize. People love getting upset. They get a dopamine rush from it. They get righteous indignation. And one guy wrote me like eight emails just back to back to back. Totally nuts. And look, that's their right. It's your right to do that.

1:17:42But being outraged and then hurling that outrage at a convenient object who also happens to produce a show that has talked extensively about things like human trafficking and deep fakes and victims and all that stuff. I find it to be a very strange use of time and energy and kind of the lowest form of discourse. And it's just you're you're feeling you're just barfing your feelings into an email. Right. And look, feelings are fair. Feelings can be appropriate. I'm not sitting here saying, hey, Epstein wasn't such a bad guy, obviously. But there was an opportunity here to do something so much better than just get mad so you can soak up your morning dopamine hit.

1:18:15There's always an opportunity to do something better than just get mad. You could read the thing and see if you could take something useful from it. You could say, I didn't get much out of this one. I don't vibe with the subject, but I see what you were trying to do. You could ask yourself, why am I so bothered by this? You could go, oh, I hated this newsletter. How would I have done it better? All of these would have generated something of value. And that to me is the real cost of outrage and offense and blind rejection. It just completely eclipses the other possibilities. It short circuits a much more fruitful process, which is, you know, curiosity, inquiry, genuine engagement, or just prioritizing your own time and sanity and moving on with your life.

1:18:55But I guess I shouldn't be surprised by this. We live in a world where these kinds of reactions are encouraged. They're celebrated. Our whole culture runs on them. So it's nothing new. I just thought it was interesting that a lot of the people who got mad about this newsletter were like, you're going to lose a ton of subscribers. Everyone else agrees with me on this. These people, they couldn't just speak for themselves. They seem to be speaking on behalf of some general hypothetical audience that was just as angry as they are. You know, you broke some universal norm. Everyone agrees with me on this.

1:19:24that was not the case and why people do this that's an interesting question i have a few theories one is they're not confident that their arguments can stand on their own they need to recruit an imaginary army of people who agree with them in order to make their point which i think already says a lot another theory is and this is probably the i'm leaning more towards this one it's a delusion they actually believe that everyone thinks exactly as they do you're the one is wrong we're right, we got the numbers, the only correct moral position is ours, even if that position is you can't turn this topic into a meme.

1:19:59And anyone who comes to a different conclusion, or in the case of our newsletter, just plays with a meme to a completely innocent end, I might add, well, that person is a monster. Whatever the underlying cause, I think that delusion has always existed among human beings. This is a version of tribalism. But it's definitely fed by social media. Most people are inside of an information prison that is so expansive, they don't even realize they're inside it. And this is a very scary prison in my opinion because I'm not even talking right now about what data you believe in or what opinions you subscribe to.

1:20:31I'm talking about something even more basic which is whether a creator can use one thing happening in the world to make a different point, whether people want to take the time to understand what someone else is truly saying, whether other messages or angles or senses of humor are compatible with your own. It's just wild to me. But what's maybe most interesting is the data speaks for itself. The open rate on that newsletter, slightly higher than normal. The unsubscribe rate, slightly higher, but nothing meaningful really. But the reply rate, that was through the roof. In the vast majority, the responses were positive.

1:21:04I know some people won't believe me because everyone agrees with them and their opinion was the only valid one, but that's the truth. So it was a fascinating experiment. All that to say, no offense intended, some offense taken. But I still stand by everything in that newsletter, which was really a reminder that if you're going to provoke people in some way, you have to reward that provocation. And I can't help but feel that with that newsletter, and even now, hopefully, talking about some of these responses, we've done just that. And most of you guys who hit me back did the exact same thing in return, which is beautiful.

1:21:34The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network. It's a circle of people I know, like, and trust. I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself. It's our six-minute networking course. It is free. It is not schmoozy. It's on the Thinkific platform at sixminutenetworking.com. Do the drills. They take a few minutes a day. Dig that well before you get thirsty. Build relationships before you need them. SixMinuteNetworking.com is where you can find it. Show notes and transcripts on the website at JordanHarbinger.com. Advertisers, discounts, ways to support the show, all at JordanHarbinger.com slash deals.

1:22:04I'm at JordanHarbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also hit me on LinkedIn. Gabe's on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, Tata Sadlowskis, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. And yeah, I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Consult a qualified professional before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. Hey, if you found the episode useful, share it with somebody who could use the advice we gave here today.

1:22:33In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. You're about to hear a preview from Joe Loya, a man who robbed 30 banks across California, but says the real crime scene was his childhood, where his Pentecostal preacher father beat him over 100 times before he turned 15. For 14 months, I robbed 30 banks, sometimes several in one day. I lost all sense that my life was going to be long at all. I just wanted to grab the loot and get the hell out of Dodge as fast as possible and go spend it and have fun. That was my ethos. And so I did.

1:23:10Because all the crimes I did and all the violence I did. And starting with my dad, when my mother died, we had received a lot of love from her and everything like that. It's just too much for him. And when he gets angry now, he gets brutal. Like, he may have socked me. He may have choked me. He may have done all those things. Bebe with a bat. He wants us dead. He's using the dead language. He could kill us or I could kill myself. But this is, like, it's just a tough time for me to try and process the grief myself and be on being brutalized. I don't believe I have a future. So there's nothing inside of me like, oh, I got to protect my future.

1:23:44I better get a job. I better start saving money for the future. None of that. Because the trauma is so intense, you're only looking at surviving the next day in front of you. You know, in fact, I'm not made for society. They have all these moralities, but they're too timid for me. I've seen past the curtain. Like I become in my heart like a little sociopath looking at like, you guys are falling for the okie doke. and I'm not the guy who falls for the okie-dokie. I'm the guy who stabs the okie-dokie and says, get the hell out of my way. I'm not buying it, right? Once upon a time, Joe Loya couldn't handle his emotional shit and so now I'm a criminal.

1:24:20I'm a bad guy. Check out episodes 1264 and 1265 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

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