882: Homeopathy | Skeptical Sunday

24:47Since homeopathy doesn't work on anything, the claims are for everything. Homeopathy maintains that it treats a wide variety of health issues from minor stuff like bruises, scrapes, toothaches, headaches, nausea, coughs, and colds, and even chronic illnesses like allergies, migraines, depression, chronic fatigue syndrome, rheumatoid arthritis, irritable bowel syndrome, premenstrual syndrome, and premature my kids turning into a lizard person syndrome. I hate that one. But again, There is no scientific proof. Any homeopathic treatment does anything for any of this. So how are they allowed to market this as medicine to people?

25:26Because when my kid had a fever, I went to Rite Aid. They have Feverol for kids. They got all these kids' medication. And then there's the, what's that company that makes the little tiny vials, like Boiron something? And I'm like, oh, this is the sugar in a little vial trick that doesn't do anything. How is this next to the Feverol? It kind of made me angry that somebody would buy this thinking they're going to make their kid better and they're just giving their kid a crappy treat that's expensive. The kicker is the makers of homeopathic products must give their products a stamp of disapproval.

25:58Okay. A 2016 Scientific American article states that homeopathic products are required by the Federal Trade Commission to be labeled with a warning that they are, quote, based on outdated theories not accepted by most modern medical experts. And that quote, there is no scientific evidence the products work. So as long as there's a warning label that says this shit doesn't work, I guess you can sell anything. This is incredible. So that's on the label. People buy it even though it says right on the actual package that it does not work. I assume that has to be some small print. No, it's very readable.

26:38And it's the ultimate grift. What are the homeopathic products made from then? Is it usually just sugar pills or is it even less than that? No. Like I said, these American homeopathic products on the shelves today can literally be made from anything, anything. I came across a homeopathic doctor who is treating patients with pieces of the Berlin wall. That's right. I thought you were going to say like, okay, some are sugar and some are made out of wood and some are, I don't know, white arsenic, but literal concrete and rebar. I guess he's trying to cure communism. Because that wall did contribute a little bit to holding that pesky iron curtain together.

27:16So I guess like cures like, I don't know. That's ridiculous. That's so dumb. I almost don't believe you. And yet I believe you. Yeah. Well, look, I'd like to write a punchline here. But the honest to goodness truth is it's a treatment for, wait for it, to break down emotional walls. Oh, no. That's so dumb. God, if you believe that, I'd like to sell you a glass of the Brooklyn Bridge. Just a 30-seat glass of the broken. So you can reach out and make connections with others better or something. That's so dumb. That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard, Michael. Really. No, it's like it's healing by poetic license.

27:56I don't really understand it. I've also read about ingredients that include wild duck hearts, livers, and crushed up bees. Crushed up bees. Sounds like a buzzkill, Michael. Look, I'm going to get serious for a second. And the craziest ingredients are the ones that are toxic and dangerous. Some are poisonous. That makes sense. I was going to say white arsenic and all that stuff you mentioned earlier. So are we still talking about diluted solutions anymore? Because if they're diluted, who cares if it's 30C diluted plutonium? It's not going to hurt you because you've already drank hundreds of millions of whatever gallons of that bathed in it your whole life.

28:31But if it's not diluted, now you're drinking poison, which sounds like a bad idea. Right. And with little oversight. So are there any regulations here? You mentioned the Food Drug Cosmetic Act, but do they, I don't know, test this stuff and say, hey, there's arsenic in here. You shouldn't feed it to your baby. It's confusing. In the United States, the Federal Food Drug and Cosmetic Act, which we mentioned, regulates homeopathic products with the same requirements as real drugs. So that sounds like decent regulation. If they're actually regulating it like real drugs, someone's looking at it, someone's testing it or something, right?

29:08No? You're shaking your head. No, I'm shaking my head because here's the thing. There are no FDA approved products labeled as homeopathic. And I don't understand this. So the agency just says they cannot guarantee these remedies meet standards for safety, effectiveness, and quality. How is this possible? The FDA doesn't approve any of them, but you can still sell them. I thought the point was they don't approve it. So you can't sell it. I guess I totally don't understand what the FDA does then. What the hell? You know what? I'm going to be honest with you. I did a deep dive and I don't fully understand how this works anywhere.

29:40I guess that once you put a label on the box that says this is all bullshit, you can just sell anything. Wow. In 2022, the FDA began categorizing homeopathic products from highest to lowest risk. So these things can't be proven to work, but can be proven to be dangerous. All risk, no reward. Okay. How risky are we talking though? Most of it does not pose any risk at all. And not because the stated ingredients aren't dangerous, it's because often these products don't even contain the listed ingredients. Sometimes you're kind of buying nothing. There was a great article in the New York Times in which DNA testing was done on all the major herbal supplement brands.

30:20Many supplements tested had no trace of the plant advertised on the bottle. They just weren't what they said they were. Products labeled as popular herbs were shown to be diluted or just filled with rice flour, But some of them were downright dangerous stuff that wasn't listed. We've all seen ginkgo biloba supplements on the shelves to enhance our memory. But if you have a nut allergy, you might become a memory because they cut the supplements with walnuts without listing them. Side effects might include death. And there are other hazardous ingredients, again, like deadly nightshade. What is it with the homeopaths and deadly nightshade?

30:58So people thought they were taking supplements for all these years and they're just eating rice flour, which is kind of just, here's some carbs. That's it. Yeah. I mean, skeptic and great hater of homeopathy, James Randi tells this joke when he starts his TED Talk. A poor guy was sick and he overdosed on homeopathic medicine when he forgot to take his pills. So wait, am I in homeopathic meds right now? I just took a sip of grapefruit flavored water. Depends on who you ask. James Randi was outspoken about the fraud of homeopathy. He famously would start lectures by taking an entire bottle of homeopathic sleeping pills, and then he would continue on with his lecture, never getting the least bit sleepy, showing that they have no effect.

31:40That is a good stunt. That's a brilliant gimmick. Although James Randy was a showman, right? He was also into magic and stuff like that, so he understood the assignment. All right, so people are just taking bogus pills. Got it. Right. Countless people spent years thinking they were taking all sorts of supplements when they weren't. We're talking main staples of the herbal medicine movement here, like echinacea. But the funny thing is, no one was complaining. Scientists went in on their own volition to test these products. The DNA testing was part of scientific research, and it wasn't based on customer complaints.

32:14That doesn't speak well of the validity of the medicinal claims if people don't notice that they're not taking any active ingredient. And yet the ones taking nothing are the lucky ones because some of the untested, unproven homeopathic ingredients are problematic, to say the very least. I'm guessing this is when the magic spells disaster. Yes, and in the most egregious way possible. Let me tell you about the Hyland Company. They are one of the leading brands distributing homeopathic products to your grocery store, Walmart, or CVS. I went to their website. It's so interesting that homeopathic remedies are always so versatile.

32:52They sell one on the site that cures colds and hemorrhoids. I mean, I might as well say Simpsons and Sun revitalizing tonic at that point. Highland promotes, quote, safe, effective, and natural health solutions. I feel like I know ironic foreshadowing when I hear it. Safe, effective, and natural health solutions does not bode well for what you're about to say next. Yeah, and you'd be right. Sadly, you won't be surprised to learn that they included unbelievable, deadly nightshade in their Hyland's teething tablets. Ooh, no, that got so much darker than I thought. Yes, these teething tablets are linked to hundreds of babies having seizures, and unbelievably, sadly, heartbreakingly, 10 babies died.

33:41Oof. It will blow your fucking mind that today that product is still for sale. What? Yes, in 2016, the FDA issued a warning against using homeopathic teething tablets, but it didn't ban their sale. The company voluntarily recalled the product, then re-released it with a reduced amount of poison for your children. Oh, God. Reduced poison for baby teething tablets. You know what I enjoy even more than a nice tall 30C glass of Alexander the Great? The products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by The Gist Podcast. If you're looking for a news podcast that is smart, unfiltered, and doesn't just echo whatever side you already agree with, check out The Gist with my friend Mike Peska.

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35:32Please consider supporting those who make the show possible. Now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. This really seems like the kind of thing that gets you sued into oblivion, and for good reason. I don't understand not only how the product is back, but how the company is even still existing. I mean, that's 10 wrongful death suits that should have hit all at once, along with just the hammer of the U.S. government that obviously did not drop. That's beyond disappointing. They have voluntarily recalled the product several times, but the FDA's website says there is an ongoing investigation as we speak.

36:05And right now, you can just go buy a bunch of stuff for babies from Highland in every pharmacy. That's disgusting. Jesus, Regilio. I'm guessing when you said most homeopaths are good people, you don't mean the homeopathic corporations. Hell no. Just the words homeopathic corporations sounds evil to me. Yeah, that's true. No, I meant the caregivers and patients. I think that was clear. But the people making these fake cures and bogus pills are obviously somewhere between snake oilers and oily snakes. That is getting depressing. Imagine thinking you're being a good parent. You're giving your baby something to make them feel better.

36:42It's all natural. It's going to be fine. And they die as a result. That is heartbreaking. And that kind of thing makes me angry. That makes me, that pisses me off. And this gets into the other danger of homeopathy, but ignoring effective medicine can make taking homeopathic remedies a life and death situation. An Australian woman was diagnosed with a treatable form of cancer, but she put her trust in her homeopathic doctor who convinced her to forego conventional treatment. Once the cancer spread, the woman realized she had been had by a charlatan. There was no turning back. The cancer was on its way to taking her life.

37:19You can read the angry letters she wrote to her homeopathic doctor from her deathbed. It's really heartbreaking. That's truly awful. I wonder how the doctor felt at that point. It's hard to say if they're a true believer or just a sociopath that doesn't care. It's hard to tell the difference at that point. I mean, I've read the letter that the woman wrote to her homeopathic doctor, and that is the accusation she's making. Basically, her eyes have been opened, and she can see that she was a charlatan the entire time, that she wasn't interested in her actual well-being, but just promoting this bogus, I wanted to say science, but it's not science.

37:55It's just this bogus medical theory. So, I mean, people have good intentions, thinking they are doing something good for their body. And it's not just homeopathic medicine. There are certain products called no-sodes that are promoted as homeopathic vaccines. But there's no credible scientific evidence to support these claims at all. Homeopathic vaccines, as they're called, produce responses similar to placebos and create no antibodies. So there's no proof, nothing works, and people actually die. why do people continue to believe in homeopathy? I mean, I guess I know the answer to this, but why do people continue to believe in homeopathy?

38:32Well, you know, there is some stress release from both the placebo effect and the overall feeling of well-being people get from long visits with doctors. The placebo effect is not nothing, as we've talked about. It's well documented. As you covered in your episode with Joe Marchant, we are wired to be fooled into self-healing. It's interesting. Studies show that stress hormones can cause people to feel like shit. And just the act of taking a pill has a calming effect. And amazingly, large pills work better than small pills. Colored pills work better than white ones. So it's understandable that people believe in homeopathy because of a personal experience.

39:12That is interesting and makes sense. Whenever we do these episodes about crystals or acupuncture or psychics, anything really, we get email or DMs from somebody who disagrees with us because they have anecdotal evidence that somebody they know or they themselves or their dog or whatever was helped by whatever we're debunking. And they then have to explain the logical fallacy of anecdotal evidence or explain the placebo effect or both. And a lot of times, unfortunately, it seems to go right over their head. Not that they're too dumb to understand it. They don't want to understand it. They want to believe in the thing because now they go every week or whatever.

39:48and some people they just really want to believe and other people are habitually bad thinkers or don't seem to have the ability to think critically very well at all they don't seem to understand that anecdotal evidence is not scientific they just refuse to believe it they're like no it happened to me it's not anecdotal it happened to me and I'm like that's the definition of anecdotal but okay and this is unfortunately very common what about the doctors the teachers career homeopaths, why do they continue to believe? Is it just a grift? They're a different breed. I'm not going to speak to their motivations, but it seems to me they want to believe in something that they know is impossible to prove.

40:25So they hang on to these long lost arguments and logical fallacies. There was a German homeopath who set out to write a book proving homeopathy. In researching the evidence, obviously, she did it honestly and with integrity, and she flipped and wrote a book about dismantling homeopathy. Instead of opening a discussion to her findings, her colleagues immediately shunned and excommunicated her from the field. Yeah. And now she lives in semi-secrecy because of death threats. Oh, come on. That's ridiculous. And look, she gets me into my next point. I'm just being honest here when I say this reminds me of religious think or cult think.

41:02Look, people peddling homeopathy, their rationale is just upside down. They hang on to debunked theories while ignoring the facts that repeated scientific testing shows homeopathy's failure every single time. There is no there anywhere in homeopathy. Certainly not in like cures like, or water has memory, or the less of an ingredient, the more powerful. Those arguments should be dead forever. Like Dr. Hanneman's patients. But anyway, but instead of dying, this really seems to be spreading. I see tons of people on social media hawking this stuff. I see lots of nonsense, even unfortunately from people who kind of knew better in the beginning, but then they're like, oh, but there's a college class.

41:46Must be something to it because I'm in medical school and there's a homeopathy course and it's just lending credence to garbage. Absolutely. And now we have homeopathic lifestyle brands like Goop and Poosh, and they're not just for vagina candles anymore. I mean, celebrities like Gwyneth Paltrow and Kourtney Kardashian endorse homeopathy by putting buzzwords and products out there that people associate with health and well-being. This is the concept of not just homeopathic medicine, but homeopathic lifestyle. The idea of 24-hour homeopathy. It's always on, always there. Like the unending scent of essential oils in a homeopath's office.

42:24They're essential, Jordan. You gotta have them. I love when I see that online. Somebody says, they're essential oils. That means they're mandatory. It's like, no, it means they're the essence of something, but now I trust you even less when you're hawking your pretend medical cures. Okay, so what is essential about them? It's essential that you believe they're unproven claims. Otherwise, why would you spend your money on smelly oil? For a bunch of essentially nothing. It is everywhere. Right. Homeopathy is an exponentially growing multi-billion dollar market. According to the 2012 National Health Interview Survey, homeopathy is practiced by five million adults and one million children.

43:03It's become a staple of American life. Homeopathic doctors are everywhere. Homeopathic medicine is in every store. They have lobbyists in Washington and senators and congresspeople introducing bills to protect them. To push back against this junk science may seem futile, but people and governments are doing it. I am glad the critics have a voice here too. That's a little unnerving that there are lobbyists for this because you get fringy, kooky stuff like psychics that portend to tell you your future, but I don't think they have a lobby in Washington being like, we should have this as part of our government.

43:36This needs to be in schools. They kind of like admit it's a grift when pressed and they just are confident and content with the suckers that walk through their doors and they don't try and spread the thing. It's good though that the critics have a voice because otherwise this is going to get worse. A scam is one thing, but like you said, at the extreme ends of this, it's killing people like that poor woman from Australia or the babies whose parents bought teething tablets thinking that they were harmless or beneficial. So how are people pushing back against this? Obviously, they're not suing Highland out of existence like I would have hoped.

44:06Well, I mean, there are cases against Highland. I think they're still pending, but they will survive it because the market is too big and they are too wealthy. But I mean, there are fierce critics. I read about a protest in Britain, Australia, and Canada where crowds took entire bottles of herbal sleeping pills again, proving they do nothing. Many European universities have suspended their homeopathy program in recent years. In 2015, Australia's National Health and Medical Research Council concluded that, quote, there is no reliable evidence that homeopathy is effective for any health condition, end quote.

44:41In 2016, the University of Barcelona canceled its master's degree program in homeopathic medicine because the Spanish health ministry no longer approved its use? In America, the controversy surrounding Highland and the FDA prompted Connecticut Representative Rosa DeLauro to propose the Recall Unsaved Drugs Act, which gives the FDA mandatory recall authority over homeopathic products. It didn't pass, unfortunately, but they reintroduced the bill just this year. We'll see what happens. Until then, the tricky part is still that these products are not FDA approved. The FDA relies on companies to do the responsible thing and recall unsafe products, but they remove little from the shelves.

45:23But hey, on the industry leader Boiron's website, in small print, way down at the bottom on their site, past the all rights reserved marking, they have the legally required statement that says, quote, claims based on traditional homeopathic practices, not accepted medical evidence, not FDA evaluated, unquote. And there's even an asterisk before it. Well, that ought to clear up any confusion, of course, because people read so carefully and definitely are looking for objective evidence to counter their pre-existing beliefs. Absolutely. I mean, it's honestly, it's confusing how we even got here. For sure, Samuel Hanneman lived during a time when definitive answers about what did and did not effectively cure people were impossible to conclude.

46:07His curiosity made him experiment and he developed his theory of like cures like. When his test failed, he changed his theory. He remained curious. Yes, he added a little magic into his theories, but it was the 1700s. Everyone was doing it. I'm not convinced he was trying to harm or swindle anyone. His advocates today seem to lack this, his curiosity and his willingness to admit failure and correct course. They don't believe in homeopathy because there is no better working theory. They believe in homeopathy because, well, they just want to believe in homeopathy. And if that means water is magical, then so be it.

46:43Don't water down my drugs, homeopaths. I paid good money for that stuff. After doing this deep dive in the house that homeopathy built, I can't wait until the next time I see my real doctor. I'm going to tell them how grateful I am for them as I ask to be treated for whatever ailment I may have. And then I'm going to gently remind them, no homeo, doc, no homeo. I got you. Well, you won't have time to do that because your doctor won't spend time with you like a homeopathic doctor would. They're going to be in a hurry, but I get what you're saying. All right, well, if people weren't, homeophobic before they will be now.

47:16And that joke is officially dead. Thank you, Michael. Really appreciate your time and your expertise, your newfound expertise on this one. I'm going to go drink a nice tall glass of 30C Empire State Building. Thanks, Michael. That'll have you standing tall. Thanks, Jordan. We've got a preview trailer of our interview with Dr. James Fallon on how psychopath brains function differently from the rest of us, and why psychopaths thrive in modern society. I'm a neuroscientist since about 1989. I've studied the brain imaging scans of killers, serial killers, really bad murderers. And you should did one or two a year for many years.

47:57And then in 2005, 2006, I got sent a ton of them. And I analyzed them. I said, oh my God, there's a pattern. So I saw this pattern that nobody had ever described. But at the same time, we were doing a clinical study on the genetics of Alzheimer's disease. And we had all the Alzheimer's patients we needed. So we needed normal, just normal controls. And so I asked my family, that was kind of my first mistake. I said, look, guys, you want to all get in. I have my brothers, my wife. I said, we'll test you. And the idea being that on my side of the family, there was no Alzheimer's at all. So we did it.

48:31And the two technicians walked into my office. And on my right side, I pile all these murderers brain scans. And they handed me a pile of my family scans. And they were covered up so I couldn't see the names. And so I went through. I went through 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. I was really relieved that they looked at the first pass normal. And then I got to the last scan and looked at it. I said, OK, guys. I said, this is very funny. You can't around with each other, right? And I said, OK, you switched. You took one of the worst psychopaths from this pile of murders. And you switched it into my family.

49:02Ha ha. And they go, no, it's no, it's part of your family. I said, you've got to be kidding. I said, this guy shouldn't be walking around in open society. It's probably a very dangerous person. So I had to tear back the covering on the name of it. And there was my name. For more with Dr. James Fallon, including how to spot a psychopath in the wild, check out episode 28 here on The Jordan Harbinger Show. Thank you all so much. This was a fan-suggested topic, so please give us a suggestion. You can email me directly, jordan at jordanharbinger.com. Give us your thoughts. A link to the show notes for the episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com as well.

49:43Transcripts are in the show notes. I'm at jordanharbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Michael Regilio can be found on Instagram at michaelregilio. Good luck spelling that. We'll link to it in the show notes. Also, michaelregiliocomedy.com. We'll link that in the show notes. Tour date's up now as well. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show, and certainly before you drink any sort of dilution of a toxic poison or give it to your kids, and that's not a joke, really.

50:23Pay attention to what you're putting in your own body or the bodies of others, and remember, we rise by lifting others. So share the show with those you love, And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who needs to hear it, like somebody who believes in homeopathy and gives it to their babies or their kids or their friends. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen. And we'll see you next time.