900: Is Three a Crowd When Parents Swing Out Loud? | Feedback Friday

23:33from the greatest family dynasties to pop culture superstars. Listen to Even the Rich on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts or the Wondery app. Get back. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going. To learn more and get links to all the discounts and deals for the show and support this podcast, you can go to jordanharbinger.com slash deals or search for any sponsor using the AI chatbot on the website as well. please consider supporting those who support the show.

24:06Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a soon-to-be mom who's five months pregnant with my first child. My husband and I are super excited and can't wait to be parents. The issue is that my ability to do my work, as well as personal projects, has really changed during my pregnancy. In the past, I would take on new projects at work, be the first to speak up during meetings, and always find new ways of improving our processes. I got a lot of fulfillment out of these things and out of being known as somebody who contributes a lot to the team. I've also been writing a novel on the side as well as learning the violin for the past several years, which are true passions of mine.

24:48But since being pregnant, my mental and physical capacity to keep up with all of these things has suffered. I get tired from six hours in the office and need to go home early to rest. I'm meeting all of my work obligations, but I'm not putting in the hours that I used to. Usually, I can't even think about my novel because it's a heavy subject and it feels like too much. I haven't picked up the violin in months. I know that being pregnant is temporary, but being a parent is not. I've tried to have compassion for myself and acknowledge that I'm working overtime to grow a whole new person, but nothing that I tell myself works.

25:23I just feel disappointed and a little guilty, like I'm letting myself down. I know that taking care of a young child will divert my attention for the foreseeable future, so I don't see this issue resolving itself anytime soon. You both seem like high achievers, so how do you handle it when life gets in the way of your own expectations? Signed, neglecting my passions while I ration my energy for this baby I'm having. This is a good question. Obviously, it's something so many mothers deal with. I realize it's comical for two men on a podcast, one of whom is famously childless, to give advice to a pregnant woman.

26:01But yeah, let's see if we can help without sounding too ridiculous. So first of all, I understand why this has been difficult for you. You're a high performer. You derive a lot of gratification from being awesome at work. And you got a lot of different talents. That's a lot to give up, even temporarily. But you know, the fact that you've cut your hours by 25 % and you're still meeting all of your work obligations, I think that's very impressive. And that tells me that even when you're not putting in as much time as you used to, you're still very effective, which means you're probably very efficient, focused, committed, all amazing qualities, and ones that don't go away just because you have less energy these days.

26:41So look, I know that you've tried to have more grace for yourself and it hasn't really worked. So I won't just tell you to, you know, like be kind to yourself or whatever. Everyone's doing that to you. What I do want to invite you to consider is whether your ideas around this period of your life are 100 % true, whether they're serving you as well as they could. You said that being pregnant is temporary, but being a parent is not. In other words, you're worried that you'll never work on your novel or pick up the violin again, but you don't know that that's true. I can almost guarantee you that's not true.

27:14There are so many parents out there, even working parents who make time for their hobbies, their side projects, their passions, there are so many. They might only be able to do them in shorter windows or it might take them longer to finish, but that's okay. They get to a place where their kids don't need them 24-7. They have more energy. They carve out the time and it totally works. Now look, Jen, my wife, her energy levels totally change during and after the pregnancy. You are in it for a few years with small kids. That's what everyone says, I agree. But you just don't know how things are gonna be once your body goes through the changes that it's going to go through.

27:48Whatever you're feeling right now, it's not going to be forever. So I just want to quell that specific fear of yours right off the bat. You've got a lot of control over that once your baby is a year, 18 months, two years old, whatever, and hey, you might find that you have energy to write and play even sooner than that. You just don't know. The other thing that jumped out at me in your letter was the feeling of disappointment and guilt, like you're letting yourself down. Now this part I really get, because I'm like you. I derive a lot of meaning from my work, my hobbies, and if I couldn't do those, I think I'd feel the same way.

28:24But I would also invite you to consider whether you should feel guilty and why. I completely understand the disappointment, the sadness, but guilt, I don't know, that speaks to something else. It sounds like you feel like you've done something wrong or you failed to do something right. You've let someone down, you've let yourself down. It almost feels like there are two of you. the childless high achiever that puts in all the hours and the underachieving pregnant woman and those two halves of you, they're in conflict somehow. High achieving you is going, you owe it to me to do everything you used to do at the exact same level with the exact same commitment or you are failing me.

29:00And pregnant you is going, okay, I want to, I'm trying, but I literally can't right now. I'm 3D printing a human. Give me a freaking break here. And that understandably causes a lot of distress. But the thing is, they are both you. And by allowing yourself to rest a little more these days, I'm not convinced that you're letting yourself down. Yeah, I agree. In fact, you're taking care of yourself by listening to your body and allowing it to do its thing, which, let's remember, is very intense. I mean, pregnancy is just so wild. And again, that's just what you need to do right now. You might be surprised by how you feel once the baby comes, even more after the baby grows up.

29:36And I'm not saying kids aren't demanding. And look, I know mothers have it way harder than fathers, generally speaking, because their kids need them in a different way and they have a special bond with you. But I'm with Jordan. I would really take a moment to explore who you're letting down here and whether it's even true that you're letting yourself down. Because here's the thing, this exhaustion and these changing priorities, they're happening whether you like it or not. So is there a way to make peace with them, even just a little bit, and see what happens? You know, can you allow yourself to rest up for a few more months and see if your guilt is actually warranted?

30:10Can you play the violin for 15-20 minutes without beating yourself up for not doing your usual hour and a half and see if you still enjoy it, which I think you will? Sometimes I think we just need to like try things without having too many ideas about how they should look or what they say about us. You know, maybe not playing violin as often will make you love it more or maybe stepping away from the book for a few months. Maybe that's going to unlock some new ideas. You just don't know. But if that's happening anyway, if you literally don't have the energy to do these things, it might be worth trying to just roll with it a little bit more and see what happens.

30:44Right. She might always feel like she's not doing enough, but that doesn't mean she needs to feel this huge conflict and guilt on top of it. So that's our advice. Try working with what's happening rather than fighting it and try to enjoy this truly special phase that you're going through. I know growing a child doesn't feel like an accomplishment, at least not one you valued up until now. But it really is, and it's exciting. And when the baby comes along, it's gonna blow your mind. Having a child might also change your lens on a lot of this stuff. I know it did for me. Things I thought were so important before, I now see are just unimportant.

31:17And things I would have discounted before, like these small precious moments, little trips to the park and the playground not working every second of the day, I now understand that those are actually the most important. And I'm still chasing my big goals. I'm still achieving at work. But all of that is balanced by being a parent, which I'm so grateful for that. So make room for that, too. Your novel's not going anywhere. The violin's not going anywhere. They're there whenever you want to pick them back up and take care of yourself. We're sending you and the baby a hug. You know, Gabriel, I totally get this.

31:50Running a business is the same, you know, and having kids. A lot of the older guys that I talk to who also have businesses and also have kids, Whenever I talk to them, they're like, work will be there later. Work is going to always be there. My kids are moved out of the house. And now I'm starting a podcast network and doing video and blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever, like doing the line of vitamins. And they're doing all the stuff they've had on their list, writing books and all that stuff. They're doing it now. I'm like, man, you're 55 or whatever. Do you wish you'd done it earlier? And they're like, no, absolutely not.

32:20I took my kids to all these hiking trips and everything. They don't, it just doesn't matter, right? All that time with your kids. It's a trade-off, but it's completely worth it, and they never regret it. So I think this is kind of the same thing. You can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Keep your emails concise. Use descriptive subject lines. It does make our job a whole lot easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, your stepdad's got your nudes, or you're just not sure how to tell your friend that you frittaged her husband. Is that a verb? Can you use it like that, Gabe?

32:51Nope, but I love it. Okay. You frittaged her husband in the closet, didn't you? Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, you know, your trips to the strip club in Reno, hit us up Friday at jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Okay, next up. Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a 32-year-old woman who started seeing a guy a few months ago. He's intelligent, funny, caring, and kind, and makes me want to be a better person. I think we could be good partners for each other. I make more money than he does and probably will for a long time based on our career trajectories.

33:25This doesn't bother me. What does give me pause is his Sally Mae student debt. He's the first in his family to attend college, and he wasn't advised well on the loans. One of his aunts co-signed for him because his family doesn't have a lot of money. I don't know the actual number, but he doesn't sound optimistic that he'll be able to pay it off in the next decade, even while advancing in his company. The plan that he nihilistically mentioned to me is paying enough of the loans off to get his aunt off the hook, and then never paying them again. Credit score be damned. I know this isn't smart or legal, but morally, I agree with him.

34:03I feel strongly that businesses like Sally Mae are predatory towards students who can't understand the gravity of potentially lifelong debt. If I commit to this person, I would take on the debt down the road and have to pay it off with my own money. If we wanted to make big purchases together, this will affect our chances. I would love to see him go to graduate school at some point, but that also means more debt. I know this is part of a partnership, but it makes me nervous to have this financial obligation looming since I'm not incredibly well off either. It also makes me mad that we would have to pay into something that neither of us believe in.

34:39But I'm lucky. I'm blessed not to have student debt, and my parents raised me and my brother to avoid it at all costs. How would you recommend financially and mentally approaching this debt? if we become serious enough to want to merge finances. Signed, prone to groan about these loans because they might stop me from owning a home. Man, another great question. And something so many people are asking these days, what with the student loans being such a huge part of our society and now the executive branch and the courts going back and forth on whether to forgive this debt. So Gabe and I are the furthest thing from personal finance experts.

35:13We usually don't even take questions about money on the show, but we thought this was an important one. So we reached out to David Gilmore, certified financial planner and friend of the show. And the first thing David said was, before you decide on exactly what this debt's going to mean for your relationship, your future prospects, you should check the laws in your state, especially the bankruptcy laws. Not saying your boyfriend necessarily should go down that route, but those laws will determine so many angles to your situation. What his options are, how they'll affect him, how they'll affect you.

35:43Now, if your boyfriend ever decides to tackle his debt in a new way, David said your boyfriend would want to speak to somebody familiar with debt counseling in his state. And as a side note, debt counseling is different from debt consolidating or any debt counselors who charge fees or collect interest or any of that other shady stuff. Those people, from what I understand, they can be way more predatory than these student loan companies are at all. And I just want to clarify that we're talking about debt counseling. But maybe most relevant for you, David said that your state will have specific rules about the treatment of assets and debts brought into a marriage.

36:18And that is something you should definitely get a good handle on now because it's possible that you wouldn't assume this debt or that you would, but in specific ways that you should understand now before you pull the trigger on this. Now, about the whole credit score be damned mentality, David was pretty emphatic on that point too. In his view, that philosophy could put your boyfriend into a very bad and unintended future financially, much like the original decision to take out these loans. His strong opinion in a situation like this, seek out good advice. If you guys get married and his credit sucks, he hasn't really avoided any issues.

36:56It's just become that much harder for you both to buy a home, get a car, whatever, and then I imagine everything's going to have to be in your name since his name is going to be mud in the eyes of credit agencies. Now, if you want to take that on yourself, that's fine, but you might find that unfair and burdensome and limiting for that matter and something to sit with and consider. As for your boyfriend going to grad school, look, there are different angles on that. Maybe grad school would be a great path for your boyfriend but David's recommendation is to not fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy regarding higher education.

37:30It's easy to buy into the idea of, well, I've come this far or I've already spent this much money on my degree, why not finish the whole thing and go all the way? But in his view, and I agree with this, a degree should be viewed first and foremost as an investment. And if that investment's gonna increase your boyfriend's earning potential, then he should consider doing grad school. If his career will not be improved by completing his degree, then in his view, your boyfriend should think long and hard about sinking more into debt to complete it. Why do that? Again, David would recommend that you work with a certified financial planner to create a plan as CFPs are held to a fiduciary standard, meaning they have to put their client's interest above their own.

38:12So that's the very practical slash financial aspect to all this, and it's great advice. The one that is closer to home here is how this debt figures into what sounds like a great relationship. And I gotta say, I feel for you because this is not a small thing. Depending on where you live, this debt could really hamstring you guys financially, psychologically, but it sounds like you found a very special guy and it would be a shame to miss out on a great relationship just because he was poorly advised when he was basically a kid. I also think that it's very thoughtful of you to acknowledge that you're just luckier than he is in this department.

38:47Your parents happened to steer you away from student loans, his didn't. And under different circumstances, you might have ended up in the same boat. And I think that's just very important to appreciate as well. But to return to one of David's points, your boyfriend's whole eff it YOLO philosophy about repaying the debt, that is an issue. And the answer to I'm underwater on these loans and I'll never be able to pay them off just cannot be, so I'm going to bail on them and just tank my financial future in the process. She used the word nihilistic, which I thought was interesting. It's a great$5 word.

39:20I think that's a mindset that comes from a lot of anger and a lot of helplessness. Right. And I get it because these loans are infuriating. But now we're not just talking about dollars and cents. We're talking about values. And not just values around money, but around how to respond to difficult situations, how to take care of yourself, how to be adaptive, how to think about the future. Those really matter in a serious relationship. So my thought here is just make sure that you're factoring those qualities into your decision about this guy too. I'm not saying they're necessarily deal breakers.

39:52They might not even matter that much to you and that is totally fine. But the screw my credit thing is something I would try to help him look at and change now before he compromises himself any further. because how he responds to your help will tell you a lot about whether you guys are truly compatible. Look, my heart goes out to this guy for being one of the literally tens of millions of people in this country who have student loan debt. It can be oppressive. It can be shady as hell. It can be pretty awful for a lot of folks. And I'm still not sure where I stand on the loan forgiveness thing.

40:24I'm not sure that's even a real solution to the problem because it doesn't address the cause at all, but I digress. Anyway, here he is, and many other people are as well. And like Gabe said, the way he responds to this debt, the attitude he leads with, for me, that's what would determine whether this person is truly the right fit. And we're rooting for you guys. We're wishing you and your boyfriend the best. Big thanks to David Gilmore for his wisdom here. Man, Gabe, I am very glad Sally Mae is not one of our sponsors because that would be a hell of an awkward ad pivot. Speaking of which, you know who won't put you into lifelong crippling debt?

41:00The amazing sponsors who support this show. We'll be right back.

41:32Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, next up. Dear Jordan and Gabe, my manager at work is the lead for all of our projects, which include leadership updates, solving problems for our customers, and assigning different jobs to the junior members of the team, including me. She went on vacation for eight weeks, and before she left, she decided to make me the sole lead for those responsibilities on top of what I was already doing. At first, it was very stressful, and I needed a lot of help from my skip level, but after the first two weeks, I found my footing and started to excel. The other members of my team saw me as the lead during this time and gave me positive feedback.

42:12I also got feedback from our leadership that I've been doing a great job in this new role, and I created a lot of relationships with members at a very high level in my organization. In a few weeks, my manager is coming back. Now I'm asking myself, should I trust her and give back my new responsibilities? Should I push to keep this role, especially with a promotion cycle coming up? Would it be a betrayal to even bring up the suggestion? What would you do with this opportunity coming to an end? Signed, a guy in the zone, loathe to give up the throne. Well, first of all, congrats on stepping up in such an amazing way.

42:48Your boss obviously chose you for this role because you have a lot to offer. And look what you did with it. You learned, you grew, kicked some butt, you got noticed for it. Good on you. That's really exciting. I haven't had a real job in a really long time. So we wanted to run all this by an expert. And we reached out to Alyssa Cohn, startup coach, investor, and author of the book From Startup to Grownup. And it was funny. The first thing Alyssa said was, in her two decades of experience as an executive coach, she's observed a few truisms. And one of them is, winners always want the ball. So she wanted to congratulate you on taking the ball, getting through some initial growing pains and turning it into a win for yourself.

43:26Not only that, but building relationships at a new level and earning the respect of your peers. Alyssa had the same reaction as us. It's an incredible accomplishment. No matter what happens next, those relationships and the skills to build them, those are assets that'll help you build a great career. So Alyssa's take is, rather than thinking about this in a binary way, should you keep the role? Should you let it go? Try opening up to a bigger picture and think about how to leverage this incredible experience that you've had. It sounds like everything's in order for your manager to come back, thank you for your service, and resume her place as the leader of the team.

43:59Alyssa's feeling is that it would look pretty bad for you to try to lobby with the leaders you've connected with to undermine her and try and take her role. You asked us if you should trust her and give back your new responsibilities, and to that, Alyssa would say, well, she trusted you to take on these responsibilities with the assumption that she would resume them once she returned. And Alyssa's recommendation is, do not betray that trust. That said, there's plenty you can do to prepare for her return and once she gets back. Alyssa suggested you spend the time before and right after she returns to set up some one-on-ones with the leaders higher up in your company.

44:36Let them know how much you've enjoyed the manager role, what specifically you've learned, then ask them what feedback they have for you. Hopefully, they'll share what they saw you do right, what they valued about you, and then ask for a suggestion or two about what you can improve so that you'll continue to grow. Then, since you've enjoyed this role so much, let them know you'd be interested in more opportunities like this, and you'd love for them to be on the lookout for you. And if they have suggestions about where to look or how to land a promotion that would maybe utilize these new skills, you'd love to hear them.

45:06Then, ask them how they'd like to keep in touch, even if you don't have the same day-to-day contact. Alyssa also said that you can have a similar conversation with your manager when she gets back. Share what you've learned, what you and the team accomplished while she was away. Let her know the status of key projects or any risks or concerns she needs to know about. And then Alyssa said to ask her if you can follow up with a career conversation. In that chat, let her know what you've enjoyed, what you've learned, the feedback you got from leadership. Tell her you'd like to be on track to getting promoted and you'd like her support and mentorship to get there.

45:40And then just continue to follow up with her and all your new mentors to help you thrive. I would also go back and read an old article we wrote. We turned that into a deep dive about the best way to land a promotion. That's gonna be really good for you right now. We'll link to them in the show notes for you. Alyssa also had one final thought. Remember that how you handle this will be another data point for everyone about your reputation. As she put it, this is a really good moment to be gracious as well as ambitious. That'll stand you in good stead with everyone in the company and will ultimately help you get you where you want to go faster.

46:13And I could not agree with her more. You don't have to go full succession to rise up here. You don't have to get all backstabby and Machiavellian. Being true to your word, being collaborative, putting the team's needs first, that is going to serve you so much better, trust me. So go run with Alyssa's advice. Make your boss's transition back as seamless as possible. And good luck. And big thanks to Alyssa for her wisdom here. We're going to link to Alyssa's book and her podcast from Startup to Grownup in the show notes, along with her five scripts for Delicate Conversations PDF. Highly recommend them all.

46:45Okay, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, my partner of 15 years was previously married to an alcoholic woman who emotionally, verbally, and occasionally physically abused him. Yikes. The experience left him with a profound aversion to alcohol consumption. When we first got together, he said he was fine if I had a single drink now and then. Since I've only ever been a social drinker, that was fine with me. But as the years passed, his position on drinking has become more and more hardline. He becomes visibly agitated and sometimes leaves a social situation abruptly and rudely, if we're around people who are even just a little tipsy.

47:24His disdain has cost us friendships many times. Once, for example, we went on a vacation with some responsible, mature friends to a resort, and he made everyone uncomfortable when the other couple began vacation drinking. I spent the entire time trying to soothe him and assuring our friends that he would be okay and they could enjoy themselves, but it was exhausting. So I began only drinking at events where he wasn't present. One time, I went on a winery tour with several friends, and after sipping many small samples at a few wineries, I was accidentally and thoroughly hammered. My husband picked me up, found me hugging the toilet, carried me out, took me home, and put me to bed.

48:04a scenario that I know caused him flashbacks to his ex-wife. I was pretty mortified and felt terrible, and after I slept it off, we had one of our worst arguments ever. He gave me no grace for my mistake and had zero empathy for my embarrassment. Since then, I only have one drink two or three times a year, and never when he's around. It feels like I'm hiding it from my partner, which doesn't feel great. He's also made my two fully grown sons feel uncomfortable about enjoying adult beverages. I've asked my partner to seek therapy for his trauma, but he doesn't seem motivated to work on the issue.

48:43Later this year, my oldest son is getting married in India to a lovely Indian woman. We'll be spending a month with my son's future in-laws, who are heavy social drinkers, and I'm worried that my partner will make them and the other guests uncomfortable. I'd love to be able to enjoy myself at the wedding, and it would definitely help me loosen up from my speech. Other than this issue, my partner is a loving and respectful man, and our relationship is solid. But as a 50-year-old adult who's been responsible my whole life and doesn't have a drinking problem, I'd like to have the freedom to get a little tipsy at these events.

49:17Would I be disrespecting my partner's trauma if I imbibe at the wedding? How can I ask him for a little grace and freedom to celebrate at the wedding without causing him emotional harm, damaging our relationship, or causing a scene? And how can I help him survive the whole experience without him harming our otherwise wonderful relationship with my son and my future daughter-in-law and her parents? Signed, trying to imbibe and fit in with this tribe when it doesn't jive with my husband's past life. Ooh, yeah, this is an interesting conundrum. So look, your partner obviously went through something really tragic with his ex.

49:55It's even given him this sort of allergic reaction to drinking, and I mean allergic reactions to understating things. I think you're right. It sounds like he has some kind of post-traumatic response to alcohol consumption. And look, I feel for the guy. I don't think he'd be such a hard ass about the booze if he didn't go through something very serious with this woman. And it's sad for both of you. It's sad that he's so triggered by drinking and that you can't enjoy it even in moderation. And that said, I'm 100 % on your team here. Your partner has some unresolved stuff around alcohol and he's not doing much slash anything to understand it better.

50:30It sounds to me like he's just going around with this belief like, no one should drink alcohol around me. It's too upsetting. Instead of asking himself, why is alcohol so upsetting to me? And is it fair to expect my partner and my friends and the other people in our groups to not drink so that I can feel okay, which is what he should be doing, in my opinion. He should be exploring this. And which is especially unreasonable when they're going on a resort vacation with a bunch of adults or to a wedding where people obviously want to drink. I mean, it's one thing if he's like, look, I don't want us to drink in the house.

51:00If that's okay, I don't like the energy or whatever. But to impose that on other people in situations that he is choosing to put himself in, where drinking is very much par for the course, that seems unreasonable. And it seems, frankly, kind of irrational. Yeah, right. Well, don't go on vacation with other adults at an all-inclusive resort that includes alcohol, or don't go to a wedding, ever. I mean, even people in recovery learn how to operate in situations where alcohol is going to be served, or they stay away from those places because they really are triggers, but they don't go around demanding that everybody not drink because they don't like it.

51:34And this guy, her partner, he's not even in recovery. Exactly. He has even less license to act this way because it's not like he's an addict and he's falling off the wagon whenever he smells Pinot Noir on his wife. It just, it freaks him out. So to answer your first question, would you be disrespecting your partner's trauma if you drink at the wedding or anywhere really? My feeling is no, you wouldn't. In my view, you owe it to your partner to be thoughtful about his history, to be sensitive to his feelings, to be supportive when he feels triggered, but you don't owe it to him to radically constrict and reconstruct your life in order to spare him certain feelings.

52:10feelings, let's remember that, got created by a very dysfunctional relationship that he himself chose to be in to some degree. Right. Not feelings you created that you need to manage because you're a chaotic mess and had spent 20 years, you know, ruining his life or whatever. And look, if it sounded like you had a little bit of a problem with the booze, I'd probably have a different answer. Then I'd say, hey, maybe your partner has a point. Also, maybe your partner has a pattern. But that's not the case. You had one night where you accidentally drank too much, and the rest of the time, you've been extremely responsible.

52:44So if you want to make progress here, you need to have some very honest talks with your partner. I would start by validating his feelings around alcohol. I would make him feel understood. I would tell him you appreciate the mark his ex made on him, how hard it must be to see other people enjoy alcohol without feeling like things are about to get super chaotic, and maybe there's a phase of this, will you just let him talk about how hard that is for him? And then when the moment is right, I would say something along the lines of, look, the last thing I want to do is upset you, but your stance on alcohol, which I can understand, it's now getting in the way of me enjoying my life in a responsible way.

53:24I'm not an addict. I barely drink now outside of that night at the wineries, which was a genuine accident. I'm super disciplined. I'm moderate and I want to have a drink now and again. But I now feel like I have to hide this from you. And I see you holding this against my kids. And I feel like I'm cutting myself off from having certain experiences and enjoying certain events like the wedding coming up in order to protect you. And I don't feel that that's fair to me or the people in our life. Our relationship is solid. You're loving, you're respectful. We have a great partnership, but we need to come to some agreement on this drinking thing.

53:58Something like that. You guys need to talk this out. Basically, he needs to feel that you understand why this is so hard for him, that you're not at risk of hurting him with the booze, and you need him to recognize that he has some unresolved stuff from his ex that he's bringing into your relationship, that he's being overly rigid in his expectations for you and for your friends. And if you guys can do that, then you might have a shot at changing this. If you can't, well, then you're either going to have to make peace with his stance and cave in or press the issue and drink however you want, which it's going to become a real fissure in your relationship.

54:34I would also specifically bring up the wedding that you want to drink in moderation there and that you're concerned that he's going to make your son's in-laws a bit uncomfortable. I really feel like that is something you guys want to get out ahead of now. Yeah, for sure. I think rather than bringing it up on the plane and landing in Mumbai, ready to tear each other's hair off. Exactly. Or not talking about it at all and then having to calm him down every time somebody orders a Kingfisher. Then you're going to have a scene. Is that like an Indian beer? I think so. I'm pretty sure, yeah. It just sounds like such a drag.

55:05It is. Plus they're there for a month. That's going to be a real problem. Oh, we're here for a month. We're going to be with all the in-laws and everybody at the event. Nobody order wine. Nobody order a beer. Tom's going to go ballistic. Okay, cool. We'll just do this for four weeks. I also think it's fair to say, look, this alcohol policy could compromise our otherwise wonderful relationship with my son and my future daughter-in-law and her parents. I don't want to meet these people with a ton of judgment or discomfort. So can we please talk about this? Can we figure this out now? Honestly, if he can't even engage with her on this, I might suggest he just don't go to the wedding.

55:40And I know that seems harsh and it's going to look weird. But if this guy literally can't be around people who are drinking without lecturing them or having a meltdown, then he should just not be at a wedding. Especially an Indian wedding. Good point. Don't those things go for like three, four days? Yeah, they're epic. They're huge events. And people let loose. I mean, if he can't relax and let people get their drink on without lecturing them about the dangers of ethanol, it's just not the right place for him. This is a cultural thing. Which is why your partner should, again, really be exploring this in therapy, because this isn't ultimately about the alcohol.

56:15It's about being abused by an addict for many years and being afraid that he's somehow going to be exposed to the same mistreatment and to Jordan's point, the same chaos all over again, which is clearly not the case now. But again, that's the logic of what sounds like some form of PTSD, right? So maybe when you guys talk, you could say, look, I know it's hard to talk to somebody about what happened with your ex, but this concerns me. I see you getting stuck with these feelings and with these beliefs about alcohol. They're making it hard for you to enjoy your life. They're making it hard for both of us to stay close with our friends.

56:48You're just not addressing this stuff. And I need you to know that there's a better way. Right. He's basically outsourcing the work he needs to do to her by telling her what she can and can't do so that he doesn't have to change. Exactly. Which is actually what I find the most interesting thing about this story, Gabe, the way she's cramping around his wounds when he's the one who needs to work through this. This is something we're dealing with as a society right now. As we talk more and more about trauma, there seems to be this agreement now that we need to just tiptoe around everybody's pressure points and accommodate their triggers so we don't upset them.

57:23And don't get me wrong, obviously I think that's appropriate up to a point. I'm not saying we should be callous or cruel. We should all be thoughtful about people's pasts and their feelings, but the idea that she might be disrespecting her partner's past experience, I'm just not sure that's a thing. She can disrespect his right to an opinion. She can disrespect his feelings. She can disrespect his needs by refusing to even consider them. But I don't think that she can disrespect what her husband went through with his ex because that's his experience. That might not have been completely his fault, but he needs to take responsibility for the vulnerabilities that that experience left him with and not drag them into his new relationship in a way that compromises the quality of her life.

58:08Right. So I guess what I'm saying is this is a really fascinating example of what happens when we expect people to overly accommodate our histories instead of working on those histories ourselves. That's his work to do. Man, that is so well put. And her work is to learn how to tell him how this alcohol thing is impacting her and her relationships and their family without invalidating what he went through. Exactly. If they can each take responsibility for that, I really do think there's a way forward. And good luck. man, going to India for a wedding, it sounds amazing. I got invited to a wedding in Goa, and I couldn't go, and I regret not making that happen.

58:46Oh, man, it's so funny. A good friend of mine got married in Goa several years ago, and it was one of the greatest trips of my life. The wedding was so much fun. It was like redefined weddings for me. A bunch of us ended up traveling around India before the wedding, after the wedding. Oh, and at the wedding, a guy fell out of a window at the hotel. Wait, I should not laugh. That's terrible. Is he okay? Yes, he's fine. It happened in my room, actually. Okay, you left that part out. A guy fell out of the window, I mean, of my hotel room. A bunch of us were hanging out. There were probably 20 people in my hotel room.

59:18We were just chilling. I was across the room. He was sitting on the windowsill. I literally looked up at one moment. I see him laughing with his friends, and then he leans backwards too much, and the next second, he was just gone. I can't believe that. What floor were you on? Luckily, my room was on the second floor, so it wasn't that far of a fall. But it was a little scary. Wow. I don't know if that story really helps our case here. I feel like that's the exact scenario our friend here's partner is worried about. Like, no, no, no, booze is fine. He needs to work around you's thing and it's cultural and he needs to work on his own stuff.

59:49By the way, that guy who fell out the window, drunk. Don't ever, don't, yeah. In India, where you will be heading in a few months to go into it. Yeah, I realize that now. Maybe don't play your partner this episode. No, just give him the choice bits, the advice. Give him the part where he said he needs to work through it and that's it. Stop. Stop before the story. Wow. Just stay away from windows while you're in India, man. What about exposure therapy? Like maybe she just drinks every single day up until the wedding. So he gets used to it. I like it. Yeah. Maybe I'll stick to podcasting instead of therapy.

1:00:18All right. Hope y 'all enjoyed that. I want to thank everybody who wrote in this week and everybody who listened. Thank you so much. Go back and check out episodes with Forrest Galante and Jen Cohen if you haven't done so yet. But the best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust. And I am teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in our six-minute networking course. The course is free. It is not gross. It's not schmoozy. It's free on the Thinkific platform at jordanharbinger.com slash course. The drills just take a few minutes per day.

1:00:47I really wish I'd known this stuff 20 years ago. We want you to dig the well before you get thirsty. Build relationships before you need them. jordanharbinger.com slash course. And if you haven't signed up yet, come check out our recently relaunched newsletter for the show. It is called We Bit Wiser. It's basically a bite-sized gem from a past episode from me to you delivered to your inbox once a week. If you want to keep up with the wisdom from our 900 plus episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out. It is also, of course, free. JordanHarbinger.com slash news. Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, discounts, and ways to support the show all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals or ask the AI chat bot on the website as well.

1:01:27I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on X at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with podcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Milio Campo, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own and I'm a lawyer, but not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Ditto David Gilmore and Alyssa Cohn. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today.

1:02:02In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. Here's a trailer from my interview with Academy Award winner Matthew McConaughey. All right, all right, all right. Did you just kind of like walk down and get a coffee one day and everyone's like, oh, hey, guy I see here regularly. And then the next time it was like, that's the guy from A Time to Kill. It wasn't coffee. It was a tuna sandwich. And it inverted. I mean, it went from 400 people in the promenade, 395, minding their own business, five of them looking at me, to 395 were staring at me, five weren't.

1:02:38The world became a mirror. Notice right there immediately. Oh, I don't meet strangers anymore. Who am I when I'm being told I can kind of be whoever I want to be? And I was 23, 24. I checked out, went to a monastery for a couple of weeks, went on a solo backpacking trip through Peru for 22 days. I needed some quiet time to hear my own self think and have a little Socratic dialogue with the M and the A. There's real sobriety that comes when you lose a father. What I mean by sobriety is that there's a drunkenness we have in reverence for things in life. There's a drunkenness we have in looking down upon things in life, but maybe we shouldn't.

1:03:15The sobriety is that everything I looked down upon rose up to eye level. Everything I was revering on earth rose down to eye level. You know, you can engineer green lights for your future by the choices and responsibilities you take today. They can give you more freedom tomorrow, but you don't do the work, you don't get the freedom.

1:03:36It's one of my favorite stories I've ever heard or told, and I'm the subject in the middle of it and I'm the one with the egg on my face throughout it. The joke is on me. I look back at him and I'll just laugh my ass off. Oh my gosh, it was hilarious. For more, including how Matthew McConaughey makes life-altering career decisions, check out episode 455 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. This episode is sponsored in part by Conspirituality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation. Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling new age cults, wellness grifters and conspiracy mad yogis.

1:04:16Basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called The Conspirituality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher and a philosophical skeptic dive deep into how this stuff spreads from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far right conspiracies. An interesting episode to check out is called Speaking Truth to Goop where Jen Gunter breaks down the pseudoscience behind the wellness industry in a way that is super entertaining and eye-opening. It's sharp, funny, and makes you a lot harder to fool, which if you listen to this show, you know I'm all about that.

1:04:48From exploring cults to analyzing our cultural and political landscape, the Conspirituality Podcast will help you stay informed against misinformation and resist fear tactics. Find Conspirituality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.