920: Would It Defeat Her to Know Husband's a Cheater? | Feedback Friday

23:14Which is why, if I'm being honest, I'm leaning towards saying, don't go back into contact with this woman. It's a chapter in your life that's closed. Keep it that way. At a minimum, be very cautious, be very boundaried about it so that you can protect yourself and pull back if you need to. But I don't know what you have to gain here. I feel bad saying that because I really do believe that people can change. But like I said, that doesn't change what she did. The damage is done. Maybe y 'all just need to move on and get a fresh start. And like he said, she has said that she's changed before. So yeah, I know he's going, yeah, but she apologized.

23:49She's gotten all this treatment. Maybe she wants to make this right and we can heal together and try again as different people. But man, I am very uneasy about that. Saying I'm sorry. I mean, the words aren't hard to say. She could be sorry and still be chaotic. And even if she isn't, that still doesn't mean they won't recreate the same pattern together. Or that seeing her isn't going to reactivate these old wounds and confuse him even further. Yeah, that's a good point. I didn't even think about that. If this were me at my age now, when I was like 24, I probably wouldn't have made this choice.

24:18But if this were me, I just keep the door firmly closed. Accept her apology. Wish her well. Acknowledge her for her tremendous work. But keep it closed. You know, I tend to agree with you. But if you feel the need to open this door, which I am also very uneasy about, I would open it very slowly, like so slowly. I'm talking you meet for coffee in the morning. You keep it to 45 minutes or whatever. You don't start texting every second of the day. You don't start dating each other immediately. You don't carry on with her behind your current girlfriend's back. You pay close attention to all of the signals you're getting from her.

24:55check in with yourself a lot about whether your interactions feel healthy and feel fair. If she picks a fight with you in line at Starbucks on Hangout number two, for me, that's just run. Like, that's a run situation. Good call. Starts provoking you by text in the middle of the workday with 17 paragraph rants. Block. Yeah. Do not think about it. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 borderline bucks. Just move on. There's no point. Gabe, I'm nervous for him already just imagining these scenarios. Like, why do that to yourself? I'm like sweaty talking about this. I'm nervous. So if you want to talk to her, yes, you are welcome to, but just, yeah.

25:33The better question for you right now is why do you think about her so much? Why did she stir up these feelings in you? What does that say about you and your patterns? That's what I'd be trying to answer first, not whether you should start talking to her again. I feel like that's not even step one. As for what you owe your girlfriend now, I mean, look, you're allowed to disclose as much or as little as you want about your past to a new partner. But what I can tell you is hiding your past from her and not helping her understand how that past is informing the way you are now. That is an obstacle to intimacy because there are parts of you that you are not allowing her to know.

26:10So, again, the question I would ask myself is why? Why am I doing that? Right, right. Is he trying to keep her at arm's length? If so, is he doing that because he's not 100 % sure about her or because he's ashamed of this past relationship? Or because he's skittish about getting involved with a new person, maybe, after what he went through? Like, I can't have that again, maybe. Or is he trying to slow roll this relationship because suddenly his ex, who he's low-key still in love with, just popped up again and he's going, hmm, I don't know, maybe I want to give this another try. These are all possibilities, although I sense that he's kind of a guarded guy in general and there's something kind of precarious about telling his girlfriend, look, here's the truth.

26:48This is what I went through. Although to be fair, he did allude to her that there was a past. I mean, she knows that something happened, but he just isn't sharing much about himself or the details. So it's hard for her to even know who is this guy? What's holding him back from loving me the way I love him? These are all great questions to take into therapy. There's one more thing we need to talk about, Jordan, which is both of his girlfriends seem to have an interesting relationship with alcohol. Yes, I am glad you caught that. I perked up at that part in the letter. I mean, a lot of people drink, but like both my girlfriends drink till they get blackout drunk.

27:19Unless the one is just lying and it's an excuse because she is embarrassed. I don't know. OK, so look, his ex's abuse would flare up when she drank. It sounds like she had a real issue. Also very common with BPD, by the way. But then his new girlfriend let it slip that she loves him when she was drunk. And the next day she's like, I blacked out. I don't remember. What did we talk about? Which she might have said that just to save face or she might have said it because it's true. Yeah. Which is more concerning. Either way, it sounds like she drank too much. I don't know. We might be making a leap here, but it is a meaningful detail.

27:50Maybe his girlfriend doesn't drink a lot, and she just happened to get hammered and blurted out a sweet thing when she was kind of disinhibited. Could be completely innocent. Frankly, that happened to me. I told Jen I loved her for the first time. I had like three sheets to the wind. Really? Yeah, it was very romantic. No, it wasn't at all. And I remember being like, oh, God, I didn't mean that. And she was like, really? And I'm like, no, but I did. But I'm so embarrassed. And my friends were there, and they were like, you're an idiot. So it's all about context. Big current girlfriend energy from you today.

28:16Big current girlfriend energy. Yeah, it's in context it mattered. In context it is significant, yeah. There may be a pattern here is what I'm trying to say. Not with me, but with her. You're fine, you're married. I'm fine, yeah. But yeah, if it is a pattern, what's that about, you know? Whether he picks people like this or whether he tolerates it more than he should. Yes, one more thing for him to consider. So where my mind goes now is he's saying, I'm just not ready to be at that point with her. But is he not ready to be at that point because he's not opening up to her? Or is it because she's drinking and that worries him and maybe it's a little triggering to him and he doesn't know whether to take what she says seriously at all?

28:53Or is it because this trauma he went through is very real and he has his guard up because there's a very big part of him going, I cannot end up in a situation like that again. You know, I can't be responsible or exposed to someone who's going to ruin my life. That's what he needs to get clear on, absolutely. And my gut is telling me that all of those are true to some degree. But again, a really productive conflict to bring into therapy, and I'm so glad that he's there. Honestly, Gabe, I wanna push him to give his girlfriend a little more information about what happened, why he's having such a hard time being open to more intimacy with her, even if they don't ultimately work out.

29:30They've been together for a few months. It's still early days, but it's not like date three or four. They're a couple, they're together. This is when you talk about this stuff. I think it would be very helpful for her to know where he is emotionally, why he's hesitating, and decide if this is the guy she wants to love at all. And it would also be very helpful for him to see how she responds to this story. Whether opening up to her helps him make more sense of this old relationship and maybe brings them closer together, if that's what he wants, of course. Totally fair if he doesn't or needs more time, especially if she has some issues of her own, like the drinking, which may or may not be a thing.

30:02But it's interesting. his main question was, should I talk to my ex again? And like so many letters we receive, I think that's kind of the wrong question. The right question is, why does this person still have such a hold over me? What does wanting to talk to her again reveal about me right now? If you answer those questions first, I think the answer to all these other questions are going to become a lot clearer. But they're all fair questions and good questions. And I got to say, I love that you're being thoughtful about this, reaching out for advice, taking your time. I While you do that, I would strongly consider staying away from your ex, period.

30:35You both still have work to do. I just don't know what you have to gain by going back into that relationship, even if it's a friendship. And that's compatible with her growing and getting better. But just because she's gotten better, it does not mean that she is your person. Keep that in mind, too. I would also check out episode 877. It was question one on that feedback Friday where we shared thoughts with a guy who's married to a woman with BPD. that should give you some more insight into these relationships and or remind you why you parted ways with your ex in the first place. We'll link to that in the show notes as well, 877.

31:08Sending you good thoughts and wishing you all the best. By the way, it's a good time to mention that if you just go to jordanharbinger.com slash any episode number, like 877, it'll take you to the episode page for that. So if you listen off the website or you wanna look at the show notes for any episode, just type in the number right after jordanharbinger.com and that little slash. All right, you can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, your abusive dad is hunting you down, or your best friend is spiraling out in a coke-fueled frenzy, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up, friday at jordanharbinger.com.

31:45We're here to help, and we keep every email anonymous. Okay, what's next? Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I am in one of those interesting relationships that began as an affair and is now almost in its fifth year. We both worked at the same company and were both in therapy figuring out how to leave our spouses when we became romantically involved. We actually discovered how much we shared while discussing the Isaiah Hankel episode of your show. Random episode from a long time ago. Wonderful. The Jordan Harbinger Show, facilitating adultery since 2018. Yeah, and shout out to Dr. Hankel for helping you smash in the office.

32:23I think he'd appreciate hearing that from us. Man, Jordan, this could be the couple from question one if they start listening to the show together and share notes. I suppose that's true. I do doubt it. I'm guessing these are two decent people with obviously great taste in podcasts. Trevor, though, and our friend from question one, that's a one-off shit show. But let's see where this goes. I was married for eight years without children, and the divorce was relatively amicable. He's been married to a woman for 25 years, has three adult children, and has been in divorce proceedings for three prolonged years, partly because his ex wants to continue getting the significant money he pays her, which he does out of guilt, and partly because she got breast cancer and he delayed filing for divorce.

33:07He left when the youngest child turned 18 and he realized that the chasm between him and his wife was just too great. They're different in every conceivable way. Interests, tastes, activity, professional drive. She has since taken to drinking, adopted three dogs, and told everyone that she is hell-bent on taking every dime my partner has. I have a great relationship with their youngest child, his only biological child with her, and his middle child. The oldest refuses to meet me or speak to him. My partner and I also moved in with his amazing mother who had cancer and took care of her until she passed away.

33:45I've become very close with his entire family, and they are a very fulfilling part of our lives. Meanwhile, his ex didn't attend the memorial service because she, quote, could not bear to see me where she should be standing. Okay, we get it. You win the best possible other woman award, noted. I'm playing. You do sound great. You guys really love each other. You're a good person, and his ex sucks. I take your point. We get it. His son is marrying his fiance next year, and the wedding will be the first time that his ex sees me in person. The kids want me to attend, but they're also concerned about her mental state and said that they wish she were less hostile toward my partner.

34:25Neither my partner nor his son thinks she will cause an outburst unless she drinks a lot, although she does struggle to emotionally regulate. So I thought I would attend and just be as low key as possible. We don't feel like it's my responsibility to manage her emotions. Am I in the wrong for wanting to attend the wedding of two great 20-somethings I care for and love dearly? Or should I suck it up and not attend so she can be part of her son's big day without the pain that my presence will cause? Signed, try not to be the aggressor with my predecessor who feels lesser because I was the transgressor.

34:59Ooh, yeah, I don't know. Can you rhyme aggressor with transgressor? I mean, you did, but can you? Is that fair? You're going to nitpick my sign off right now. I probably shouldn't do that. It's not like Kanye who rhymes like shoes with shoes and you just go, dude, that doesn't rhyme. It's the same word. Dude, we're living in a world where T-Pain rhymed the word mansion with Wisconsin. Like, that's the bar. This woman, she sounds like a very difficult personality. You've really painted a picture of a troubled, honestly pretty petty person who's making things a lot harder than they need to be. but to be fair to her, she's probably deeply hurt by the fact that her husband cheated on her slash you stole him away.

35:38Although weren't they in therapy for figuring out how to separate before? So it's not you really. I don't know if they were in therapy together, but I think the husband was in therapy trying to figure out if he should leave her. Right, right. But that's the thing. It wasn't like, oh, I met this other woman. I'm going to leave you. It's like, I can't stay married to you. And oh, look, I met somebody else after I'd already made the decision. That's not her fault. He had his own reasons for leaving before he met her. That's right. Plus, she got cancer in the middle of that. So that sucks. The drinking, the surrounding herself with dogs, the vindictiveness.

36:08Those are probably the only ways she knows to cope with the pain and even the scales, if you will. Right. Which is obviously super sad, but it does make some sense. But then to be fair to him and to you, you guys are clearly a much better match. You share similar interests, similar values. And again, you both obviously have excellent taste in podcasts. You're welcome. The way you got together was a little bit messy, I suppose, but I'm guessing that was because you were really drawn to each other and you did right by leaving your spouses. And anyway, here you are. You're part of the family now, and it's all great except for this ex who won't let it go.

36:42So to be very direct here, no, I don't feel like you're in the wrong for wanting to attend the wedding. You have a great relationship with the child and his fiance. You care about them. They invited you. You're basically their stepmom. You have a right to be there. It would be different if dad was like, I gotta bring my girlfriend. It's like, no, we don't want her there. That would be totally different. This is everybody but kooky ex. It just doesn't sit well with the partner's ex. If that's gonna ruin the whole wedding for her, that is definitely just her problem. Hopefully stays that way during the wedding.

37:12Depends on what she drinks, but hopefully just her problem. You said it best. It's not your responsibility to manage her emotions or her issues with alcohol that she clearly has if she can't regulate those emotions. and I say that fully empathizing with how difficult it must be for her to watch her ex and his new partner and you should be thoughtful about that too. This woman is obviously hurting but at some point it's like, I'm sorry it played out this way, Nancy, but this is what's happening. He didn't want to be married to you anymore. It's not because of me. It's actually because you guys weren't a good fit and spiraling out, self-medicating, not going to his mother's funeral because you can't bear to see you where she should be standing.

37:51It's just so petty and rigid and limited. It's understandable, but it's, man, it's so immature, really. It's some high school sounding crap right here. And it's time to process this divorce and accept your husband's wishes and start building a new life that isn't just about trying to get him back or get back at him. That's right. That's what I would say if she were the one writing it. I know we're assuming a lot about this woman's capacity for growth and forgiveness, but it's been three years. Right. Three tough years, no closure, divorce still going on because of this stuff. But it is time. At least start the process of moving on and stop externalizing the blame for everything that's gone wrong in your life.

38:28So yes, Nancy might be very injured by your presence at the wedding, but given that you and your partner are in a meaningful and legitimate relationship now and the rest of the family wants you there, I absolutely do not think that should keep you away. If you were only dating for six months and the divorce was still fresh and the kids didn't know you well, I'd be like, sit this one out, stay home. Not appropriate for him to bring his side piece or whatever to the daughter's wedding, but you guys are in a very different place now. The larger theme here is you can't cramp around other people's feelings forever.

38:59It's just not realistic and it's not fair because this woman isn't just expecting you to spare her. She's also denying her child the joy of having you at his wedding. Yeah, that's pretty self-centered in my opinion. Plus it's his wedding, it's his choice. Yeah, totally. But you know, that probably hurts her in a whole other way, just to know that her child likes our friend here and actually wants her there. Yeah, of course. But that's just one more sign that she needs to work through these feelings and come to terms with the reality of her situation. I know how hard that must be for her, but it's time.

39:31But again, her journey, not yours. So go, enjoy the wedding. Try not to look too good, if you know what I mean. If you run into Nancy at the bar, be kind to her, be gracious, which I'm sure you will. Avoid any unnecessary drama. She's probably gonna try and spill wine on you. You're there to celebrate your stepson and his wife and enjoy that day with your partner. and I'm sorry there's going to be a ghost at the feast, but you know, she's really just haunting herself. Well said. If your partner could plug the Jordan Harbinger show in his wedding toast, that would be great. It's the least you can do really, seeing as he wouldn't be standing there with you if it weren't for yours truly.

40:04So good luck and have fun. You know who won't take you for every dime you have, Gabriel? The amazing sponsors who support this show. We'll be right back. The wait is over. dive into Audible's most anticipated collection, The Best of 2025, featuring top audiobooks, podcasts, and originals across all genres. Our editors have carefully curated this year's must-listens, from brilliant hidden gems to the buzziest new releases. Every title in this collection has earned its spot. This is your go-to for the absolute best in 2025 audio entertainment. Whether you love thrillers, romance, or nonfiction, your next favorite listen awaits.

40:47Discover why there's more to imagine when you listen at audible.com slash best of the year. This episode is sponsored in part by the GIST podcast. If you're looking for a news podcast that is smart, unfiltered, and doesn't just echo whatever side you already agree with, check out the GIST with my friend Mike Peska. Mike's been doing this longer than just about anyone. It's actually the longest running daily news podcast. It's earned that spot on Apple's top charts for a reason. Each episode's around 30 minutes, so it's perfect for your commute or while you're making breakfast. It's always packed with sharp, thought-provoking takes.

41:16What I love about the gist is that it's not stuck in a partisan box. Mike, he's a really smart dude. He digs into real questions, the kind that most shows avoid because they don't fit neatly into a political lane. He'll challenge the right. He keeps the left honest. He dives into stuff like the New York City mayoral race, that whole cluster, and the chaos of sports betting, or even whether talking to your plants actually does anything. He's an award-winning journalist. He's not some schmo like me who's totally unqualified. You've probably seen his work in the Atlantic, the Free Press, the Washington Post.

41:42He's got that rare mix of wit, skepticism, and depth that makes even heavy topics fun to listen to. And he's a great dinner guest, just saying. So if you want your daily news with more brains and less noise, check out The Gist with Mike Peska every weekday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take Take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are on the website at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.

42:12The AI chatbot will tell you as well. You can email me. I'll dig up codes for you. I don't love it, but I'll do it. It's that important. So thank you for supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. All right, what's next? Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I work as an engineer on a space exploration-related project, which has always been my dream. My boss is great and the pay is above average. The program is also historic. It aims to put the first woman and the first person of color on the moon by 2028. I'm thrilled to be part of this history in the making. Wow, that is very cool.

42:47So this job is meaningful to you. I get it. It's exciting to be part of something like this. The problem is the program team is understaffed, the schedule is impossible, and my workload is outrageous. We have a fraction of the staff that we requested we're way over budget, and management has responded by beating us up over the schedule, which just adds meetings to our overloaded 12-hour days. I'm trying to retain some work-life balance, but I'm constantly putting out fires, so I'm not in control of my day. I also manage way more subcontractors than everyone else. I feel like I'm being taken advantage of.

43:22I also feel like I'm not appreciated. The chief engineer complained about my team in the middle of the open office, blaming us for delays that were largely out of our control. Meanwhile, my fourth patent was just awarded. There was no announcement, no party, no fanfare, just an email from the automated system. Oh, yuck. That sounds extremely intense and stressful. And I'm sorry they're not treating you guys better. That's a real bummer. The patent thing is especially frustrating. Getting a patent is a huge accomplishment. Companies should be celebrating employees who achieve something like this.

43:52Well, okay, let's take a moment to celebrate you. Congratulations. You earned a patent on something that you helped invent. That is awesome. That is really cool. Most people will never do that. Well done. I talked to my boss's boss, and he told me everything I wanted to hear. He'll get me an office for some much-needed privacy, given the nature of my work. He'll give me a promotion. He'll hire more people. My boss said not to expect anything, that his boss hasn't hired more people despite promising to every two years. Given the vibe in the office, there may be a mass exodus soon. My mentor in another division was alarmed that I'm so miserable, and he assured me that this program is not typical within our company.

44:28He said that I could work for him with a lot less stress. While tempting, it wouldn't be in space exploration, which has always been my passion. I could also move to another company in this field. The associate director of engineering recently went to our major competitor and says he's much happier. But I would lose the 10 years of seniority and all the contacts I have within this company. I'm almost 50 years old and loathe the thought of starting over again. I've tried drawing boundaries, talking to management, and working less. Is it time to jump ship? Or should I learn to live with the stress?

45:01I'm aiming for a job that's out of this world, but should I bring my dreams back down to earth? Signed, hanging on to my dream job when I'm stuck in a real slog. Hmm, interesting problem. So if we had to boil this down, the bind you're in is, do I keep doing work that's super meaningful to me but is making me miserable, or do I jump ship to do work that's less meaningful to me but end up happier? That is a tough one because either way you're gonna have to give something up, either your sense of purpose or your lifestyle and sanity, which sucks. And I wish your company were better managed that talented people like you didn't have to make that trade-off, but it sounds like you've talked to them, multiple people have talked to them, you've tried all the traditional strategies for managing this crazy culture, and they haven't worked.

45:45If your boss is right, then things aren't gonna change soon. So if things continue this way, I do think that you're gonna have to decide which of these is more important, working on your dream project or having a balanced, healthy life. Only you can really answer that. It comes down to your goals, your needs, your values. Also, you can decide that you'll put up with this for another six months, a year, and reevaluate. Sometimes giving yourself a timeframe helps so you don't feel stuck. Give yourself the keys to the prison, so to speak. But I understand that you might wanna stay there until 2028, when you can see these historic goals come to fruition if you finish on time.

46:22But that's a full half decade away. It's not exactly right around the corner. And that's if everything goes smoothly until then, which it doesn't sound like is happening. So that's another interesting question to ask yourself, whether you need to stay all the way through to feel connected to this meaningful mission. Maybe playing a role in it for a period of time is enough, and you can jump ship and look back at this chapter fondly. So I think you need to sit with this question, purpose versus sanity. Talk to some trusted people about it, reflect on what you want and see what answers come up. I agree.

46:53And I hate that this company is making her choose when they could just be better managers, but such is life, I guess. Look, you mentioned a few other concerns we need to touch on, namely that if you left, you would lose the 10 years of seniority, your contacts in this company. And then you said, I'm almost 50 years old. I don't want to start over again. Those are all legitimate fears. I totally get them. But I also think that those are worth digging into some more. What I would want to know is what does losing 10 years of seniority really mean? Does it actually mean that you would have to start at a lower level somewhere else?

47:25Or does it just mean losing the status you currently have in your office, which you can absolutely recreate in your next job, by the way, and maybe even climb higher? And when you talk about losing your contacts in this company, what does that mean? Are you saying that you would have to rebuild your network in a new office, which is again, totally doable and might actually be fun? Or are you worried about actually burning bridges? I'm not sure that you would really lose your contacts if you transitioned to another role. You can maintain those relationships and who knows, maybe they'll even get better in a certain way.

47:55But the thought that I'm most interested in is this fear of starting over at 50. And this one I understand the most. What I'm hearing from you is that a really big part of you wants stability and predictability alongside your purpose, and that is fair. But I worry that this thought, I can't start over at 50, is playing an outsized role in this decision. You might be getting to a point where the best move is to jump ship, and there could be an incredible role waiting for you somewhere, a much better lifestyle, and maybe a different sense of purpose. And I worry a little bit that you might be cutting yourself off from that because you think that it is too late to make a change.

48:30Now, I'm not saying that it's easy to make a change later in your career or that you're wrong to want stability. But I am saying that if there's a great move to be made here, it might be harder when you're thinking the thought, I'm too old for this. So I'm just encouraging you to explore that thought and to see if it's really true that being 50 should stop you from starting a whole new exciting chapter. Right. She said she loathes the idea of starting over again. That's a strong word. Maybe she has some good reasons for that, but maybe the loathing is also a signal that she's overly attached to her situation and it's keeping her miserable.

49:04Yeah, exactly. There's another angle on all of these thoughts, which is I'm almost 50. I have seniority. I've seen a ton. I know a lot of people in this industry. I have a lot to offer. So why not explore another team? For sure. And also making a big transition at 50, it might shake her up in a really fun way. And it might totally rewrite the idea that it's hard to make a move at 50, that what she really wants is for things to stay the same. Again, not telling you what to feel. It's all legit. But I think what Gabe's getting at is sometimes these concepts can get in the way of a great thing if they hold you back from even considering it.

49:37And that is especially true in her case, because she has a lot of data that this company is going to continue to be a mess. And she has so much to offer another team. I mean, her mentor is actively recruiting her. This associate director jumped ship and seems to be having a good experience. So there are some very cool options here. She just needs to resolve the purpose piece. I also find myself wanting to tell her that the whole idea of starting over, in a way, it's real. In another way, it's really not. It's real in the sense that, yes, you'd be starting on a new team, forming new relationships, learning a new product or whatever.

50:08But it's not real in the sense that you don't just wipe the slate clean and lose everything you did before. You still have your accomplishments. You still have your knowledge base. You still have relationships. I know you said you'd lose all your contacts. That is almost certainly not the case. And you're going to put all those resources to great use in your new role. When I started the new show, the one you're listening to now, five years ago or whatever it's been, almost six now, that fear was really big for me. Like, I lost everything. I'm starting from scratch. I got to reclimb the same mountain just to get back to where I was before.

50:38It's going to take forever. But I wasn't really starting over. I had all these great assets. I just needed to put them to work. I thought it would take years to find my footing. I thought it was going to take forever. It took months. I worked my butt off. It was intense. It was scary. Don't get me wrong. I had some sleepless nights. But that belief that I was starting over, it turned out to be essentially a fiction. It's just something else to consider while you contemplate this move. Your other option is to go back to your boss's boss and say, look, I know this isn't fun to hear, but our program is a mess and everybody is miserable.

51:10And if you don't find a way to make this ship run better, I think there's going to be a mass exodus. And if I were the boss, I would want to know now. There's a chance that that'll freak management out enough to make some big changes and maybe that'll make your life easier. So worth a shot. And if you're going to leave anyway at some point, you don't have a ton to lose there. Good point. She might even come across as a real team player if she delivers that news in the right way. But if they don't listen and make some changes, then yeah, I think it's time to look at your options. So the best advice we can offer is to stay open to all the possibilities and investigate all of your beliefs around this transition, because that's how you're going to arrive at the best decision for you.

51:46And you sound like an amazing employee. I know there are great things ahead no matter what you choose. So good luck. Okay, next up. Hey guys, my long-term coworker is dying from cancer and his doctor is giving him only a few weeks to live. He's an older guy in his seventies. He's had back-to-back cancers and he's just getting over pneumonia and COVID, which means he can't do chemo right now because they can't get his numbers up. The thing is, he hasn't told his kids the extent of his condition. He's from the older generation and so he likes to be stoic and not show any weakness. They think he's fighting cancer, but I heard him say that he feels like giving up tomorrow.

52:24I'm now thinking of going to his son and suggesting that he spend time with his dad. I could say something like, I've known him for 15 years, and I know he doesn't open up or share weakness. Something in my gut says that he doesn't tell y 'all everything. I've seen too many cases where parents like to stay strong and pretend like nothing's happening. I called my wife and asked her thoughts and she's saying, stand down. It's not my business. It's his decision. And I should honor that. I completely understand, but I'm also thinking about this from his kid's perspective. I'm sure I would kill to have someone tell me something like this.

52:59Am I sticking my nose where it doesn't belong? Signed, orchestrating this goodbye without trying to pry or going awry. Wow. Yeah, this is a real conundrum. So I'm thinking about question one again, obviously, It's a similar situation. How much do you meddle in other people's lives when you have information they should know? But you know, my gut reaction is, I'm feeling like that woman had more license to break the news than this guy in this letter does. Because she was actually involved, you mean? Yeah, I mean, she slept with the guy, so she was part of the situation, and she felt super guilty.

53:29But our friend here, he's just a colleague, and this guy's cancer diagnosis really has nothing to do with him directly. That's a fair point, but he feels it has something to do with him because he's known this guy for 15 years, and he's watching these kids miss a chance to be with their dad in the last three weeks, potentially, of his life. But that's a little bit of a leap, isn't it? I mean, it doesn't sound like he's super tight with these people. He just works with the dad. It sounds like he's going out of his way a little bit to be involved. Our friend here is definitely right. This guy is almost certainly doing his kids a huge disservice by not being open with them about his treatment.

54:01He's lying to them, and if slash when he dies, it doesn't sound good. he's robbing them of precious time with him for some reason that I think is frankly probably pretty stupid. Like, I don't want to deal with the emotions. It's just, it's horrible. Yeah, you're right. It's really sad. But then is it our friend's business to make that right somehow? He also doesn't know what kind of relationship this guy has with the kids, whether he has a reason for withholding this information from them. Yeah, that's where my mind is going. And he doesn't know how the news is going to land with the family. There's a lot of factors here.

54:30So I guess the question is, is giving this guy and his kids a chance to spend precious time together before he dies. Is that more important than pissing him off and violating his privacy? And that's hard. Part of me is like, definitely, who cares if he's upset? They deserve a chance to see him. It's their dad or, you know, convince him to pursue treatment or whatever they want to do with the information. But then a part of you is going, it's his life. You got to stay out of it. Yeah, honestly, I'm kind of split here. Okay, so let's look at this from another angle. Why is our friend here so invested?

54:57He said that he would kill to have someone tell him something like this if he were in these kids' shoes, which I completely understand. But I do wonder if he's maybe finding parts of himself in these kids, locating himself in them. Is it possible that he's projecting his own paternal qualities or feelings onto this guy and that's affecting his decision? Right. Look, that's a fair assumption, but he doesn't know for sure that they'd be happy. I mean, all things considered, you'd probably want to know if your dad literally has weeks to live, but you never know what's going on with people, man. He also said that he's seen too many cases where parents like to stay strong and pretend nothing's happening.

55:31I don't know if that's actually true, if that's just something he thought he would say to frame the news. But either way, it sounds like this co-worker being so stoic, this is really hard for him to watch. So what you're getting at is, is there something in our friend here that's responding especially strongly to that decision? Yeah, we obviously don't know what our friend's relationship with his family is like, but I wonder if that's informing this desire to intervene. I see. Like his dad or someone else in his family is stoic and avoidant, and this is just activating him in some unique way? It could be, yeah.

56:01That's an interesting possibility, for example. Yeah, maybe it's a way to work something out with or through another family. I don't know. Could be, yeah. It's an interesting theory. Or his dad is the complete opposite of this older guy at work, so it pisses him off to see somebody keep their children in the dark in such a big way. Either way, I do think that's worth exploring because I think his motivation for doing this does matter. I do agree with that, but you know what? I think there's an important step here before he contacts the kids, and I think he should start by talking to his co-worker directly.

56:27Ask him about his treatment. Ask him how he's feeling. I know he's a tough nut to crack, but I would try to get him to acknowledge what a big deal this is. Put himself in his children's shoes. Realize maybe that he's robbing them of the chance to really soak up their relationship while he's still around. He can never undo this mistake. He might be very guarded or stubborn, but hearing it from you, who knows? He might also cave and tell his kids and then tearfully thank you later. I don't know. Or he might give you a damn good reason why he isn't saying anything to them, and then you'll know. Who knows?

57:00Maybe they're greedy little shits who keep bugging him about his will and where he's leaving his money, and he wants to live his last few weeks of life in peace without people calling him and asking him for crap. Again, you just never know what families are like. But time's a-wasting, so I'd talk to him ASAP and make your decision from there, ideally with his help and his blessing. You might be the friend and guide he needs right now, but I'd really let him drive, if possible. Sad story. Poor guy, poor family. I hope he gives his family the connection they deserve. Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week and everybody who listened.

57:33Thank you so much. Go back and check out Tom Harden, aka Tipper X, and Chris Miller with The Chip War, if you haven't yet. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network. It's the circle of people I know, like, and trust. I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in our six-minute networking course. That course is free. It's not gross. It's not schmoozy. You can find it on the Thinkific platform at jordanharbinger.com slash course. Dig that well before you get thirsty, folks. Build those relationships before you need them in ways that don't make you look like an a-hole.

58:01jordanharbinger.com slash course. And if you haven't signed up yet, our newsletter, We Bit Wiser, it's a bite-sized gem from a past episode from me to you, delivered to your inbox once a week. So if you want to keep up with the wisdom from our 900 plus episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out. You can sign up at jordanharbinger.com slash news. Show notes and transcripts always at jordanharbinger.com. advertisers, deals, discounts, and ways to support the show also on the website at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn.

58:32Gabe's on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer but not your lawyer. do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we've rised by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn.

59:05And we'll see you next time. You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger Show with the son of a Hamas co-founder who ended up working undercover for Israeli intelligence against his former friends and family to thwart terrorist plots and save lives. Hamas is an Islamic movement. My father is one of the founding members of Hamas. Hamas for us was everything to the point where it became an army. It's a monster. I agreed to work with Israel with a hidden agenda to be a double agent. The level of pressure that they had to go through, my heart stopped for approximately 30 seconds. Most human beings cannot make it back.

59:51I was tortured mentally and physically. Everybody in the city knew that I'm a dead man. For more with Masab Hassan Youssef, including what happened when his family found out he worked undercover, check out episode 407 on The Jordan Harbinger Show.