953: We Did the Math — Our Colleague's a Sociopath | Feedback Friday

23:23It's weird the parents were like, oh, yeah, he makes up all kinds of stuff and manipulates everyone. Totally fine. Well, think about how many instances of this they've seen over the years. They're probably just like, oh, yeah, that's our son. Yeah. The fact that this guy is in charge of people's lives is very worrisome. Yeah, very. Maybe you can be a decent doctor, maybe even a good one if you're like a narcissist or possibly a sociopath. But if you're showing up to the hospital high, underslept after a bender, massively lying to everybody about people around you dying to get sympathy, just a hot mess.

23:53I mean, this is the sort of thing you can and definitely should get fired for if you're in a position like that and or have your license revoked, I would think. This guy is no shame. I mean, those circuits just aren't there. This is a piece of the story we didn't really get. What happened after he was escorted out that day? I mean, I would hope the hospital took some kind of action. Yeah, think about it. He comes back on Monday and everyone's like, oh, hi, Jeff. Guy who lied to us for years about everybody dying. Yeah, totally. How do you move forward from that? You can't. You can't work with that person.

24:21I mean, you got to put somebody like that at the bare minimum on administrative leave. And I would assume that. But I also think that it would be like you're immediately terminated. We're just have to fax the papers to the right office and your access pass is done. And also, we don't know how his girlfriend, quote unquote, became involved with the lie. Like she just manipulated into it. She contacted somebody and then his dad shows up like so you knew. Yeah, unclear. Was she keeping up the lie on his behalf or does that mean that he duped her as well? It was a little unclear. And I'm very curious myself.

24:49But anyway, of course, that's not why our friend here is writing in. Why you're writing in is this whole Jeff fiasco has really thrown you for a loop. And like I said, I get it. you came into close contact with a very disturbed individual. You thought he was one guy. He was actually a very different guy. He completely deceived you and your colleagues. Apparently, he did it very well. So the fact that you guys were so kind to him that he might have invented these tragedies in order to secure your kindness, it just adds insult to injury. And what he did is very cruel. It's messed up. It's deeply weird as well.

25:24And it speaks more to his serious issues than it does to your kind and trusting nature. And I hope that's clear. We're going to highlight that a little bit here. Although I do understand why this has given you real pause, why it's made you question whether you should be as kind and trusting as you are. And I hate that it did that. I hate that. Because he is the one who should be going, hmm, why did I manipulate all these kind people? Not you going, hmm, should I just be less nice and friendly to people in case everything they've ever told me about themselves is a complete and total lie? No. Yeah, exactly.

25:53But the problem is that Jeff has the personality disorder. He has the addiction. God knows what other issues he has, which means he probably does not have that capacity to self-reflect and empathize. So she feels like it's all on her. Right, whereas you do have those abilities and capacities. You do have self-awareness and flexibility to change, which means you're looking for ways to protect yourself so this doesn't happen again. And I understand why this feels so urgent since part of your job here is to assess people accurately so you can treat them. So you're not crazy. If you ever came across another Jeff, it could be a real liability.

26:28But given that Jeff is the villain here, he essentially conned you, and not just you, but tons of people from the sound of it, I think it's important to make room for a few different feelings here. You're feeling ashamed that your spidey senses didn't kick in around him. And look, maybe that's appropriate to a degree if you missed certain signals or discounted your instincts along the way, or if you should have picked up on certain things and you didn't because you just didn't have the experience to clock a con artist like this, getting burned by the Jeffs of this world, that's usually how we learn that humans can be crazy.

27:00That's how we learn to develop a healthy skepticism and a heightened sensitivity to people. So yeah, there was something important to learn from all this, how duplicitous and dangerous certain people can be, and embracing that is why you had to go through this experience. But I don't know if you need to be ashamed on top of it because the shame tells me that you're turning a lot of this experience against yourself, beating yourself up for not being on to Jeff sooner or being too trusting or too kind, basically for being vulnerable like a normal functioning person. Right, which does make some sense to me because being vulnerable can sometimes feel like weakness.

27:37I guess in a case like this, it is sort of a weakness because she came across a personality that wanted to treat it as such and exploit that. Right. But that's the thing. He was the one who exploited it. So an equally valid response, actually a more appropriate response in my opinion, is to just be really freaking angry at this guy for doing that. And make sure that his career is over. Not just ashamed that you trusted him, but furious that he took advantage of that very admirable quality in you and all of your colleagues for that matter. I think it's really important that you hang on to both of those feelings here.

28:10Because if you take all this on yourself, if all you do is turn it inward and go, well, I must be some kind of idiot for trusting him. maybe I'm a fool for trusting anybody, then I think you'll be missing a very crucial emotion, which is your righteous anger at this literal sociopath who treated you all like trash. Well said, Jordan. I couldn't agree more. The other thing you would risk doing here is overcorrecting. I totally understand the impulse to reevaluate, you know, how do I engage with every stranger I meet? I mean, how could you not ask yourself that question? But let's also remember that most people you encounter in the world at the hospital, they are not like Jeff.

28:45They might be flawed. They might be annoying. They might be self-interested. Everybody has their challenges, but the likelihood of coming across another sociopath of this caliber is pretty low. That might be cold comfort to you right now, but I do think it's important not to let your fear and your paranoia run the show after going through what you went through. It's wise to be appropriately guarded. It's smart to have some healthy skepticism. I mean, look, a patient could lie to you at the hospital to score some oxy or, you know, a nurse you work with who seems totally chill in the break room could be a total lunatic at home.

29:20So yeah, of course, it pays to ask questions and to be ready for surprises. But that's different from doing a full 180 and going, you know what, I can't afford to be kind anymore. I'm done trusting people because look where that got me. That would be an overcorrection in my view. Yes. And it is interesting, the impulse to do that 180. That might also be tied to the shame piece because if she turns this whole Jeff saga inward, her wondering whether she should trust people anymore seems like a way to spare herself the shame and the self-reproach of being duped more than actually avoiding any future Jeffs.

29:54This is not a logical decision like, okay, I got to do this less because it ends up in this. This is like a such a fluke thing. Yeah, that's right. It's self-protection against those feelings. It's not Jeff protection against any future sociopaths. Right. Also, So shutting down your kindness and your trust would be unfortunate because I bet those are some of your best qualities as a nurse, as a teacher, as a human being, really. I think you have more to gain by continuing to be appropriately kind and trusting than you do by being, you know, suspicious and closed off. In my view, your job now is to bring these two qualities together.

30:28You know, you can be kind and you can be discerning. You can be trusting and you can be a little skeptical. You don't have to choose. The two are absolutely compatible. So I say, let yourself go through this phase of WTF. Did I just go through? Let yourself have whatever reactions you're having to Jeff. They are all valid. But I would try not to double down on any one at the expense of the other. You get to choose how you want to meet people in this world. My feeling is that life will be a lot more rewarding if you keep meeting strangers with your best qualities. With healthy people, which is most people, you being kind and vulnerable is only going to bring out their best qualities.

31:04And when you see that and you remember that the Jeffs are far and few between in this world, I think that'll teach you how to trust again. Yeah, I agree. If you don't meet strangers with your best qualities, why would they meet you with their best qualities? Exactly. This is a great example of how people often create certain outcomes they say they want to avoid. I mean, if you meet somebody and you're closed off and standoffish, how likely is it that they're going to go, oh, I should just be extra friendly and open with this person, or I should trust this nurse? People generally meet you on the terms and in the tone, you implicitly signal to them.

31:38So if you shut down, I feel you'd be cutting yourself off from some really meaningful experiences with most people, just to, what, avoid ever confronting this one very rare personality type again? And it might not even work, by the way. You might just attract more people who don't care about that vibe and are willing to just go for it. You might even be attracting more people who are sociopaths because they're not put off by your vibe. You know, they don't care. They're not reacting to you. I can't remember where I heard this, but human society turns on trust. We evolved to trust other people because it's the most efficient and beneficial way to exist in civilization.

32:16And that includes all of the risks of being duped by somebody who abuses that trust. So nature, evolution, God, whatever word you want to use, has designed us in that way over millions of years, right? I know humans haven't been around that long, but you know what I mean. That's all the data I really need on this. There's a thought exercise here. Imagine all the people with whom you have great relationships right now who enrich your life. Imagine those folks. How many of those relationships would exist if you had chosen to shut down these qualities just a few short years earlier? Think about everybody you've met that you're talking to in the last five years.

32:52You might be going, well, I wouldn't have this career, I wouldn't have this boyfriend or partner, I wouldn't have these friends. Is that worth it? in order to avoid having to make Jeff some frickin' beef stroganoff to console him because of his fake dead father? No! So, my take, shake off this one very bizarre experience. Learn from it as much as you can, and just remember that most people, most people are not like this at all. But now that you know what people are capable of, you'll be able to spot future Jeffs a lot more easily, or at least be less side-swiped if anyone ever does turn on you.

33:27so trust yourself to do that too. Man, I'm sorry this happened. That is so creepy. It is very hurtful. It's a great lesson, and I gotta say, it's a hell of a story. I wouldn't mind an update on this one, just like, where's Jeff now? Is he still working there? I hope not. If you take the right things away from this whole situation, I know it'll only make you more discerning and more compassionate without diminishing you or your relationships in the process. So good luck. You know it's a great way to fill the Jeff-sized hole in your formerly trusting heart? buy yourself a few of the products and services that support this show.

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35:35Thank you so much for listening to and supporting the show. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support this show are all in one place. JordanHarbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, next up. Hello, Jordan and Gabe. I'm 26 and my parents are both 67. Since I was four, my mom has been doing foster care and she formally adopted my older brother, who's now 30, and my younger brother, who's nine. My younger brother has been worse than anything my parents have ever had to deal with. On one occasion, he wrote, f*** you, mom, on the side of her car with a rock and smashed the back windshield.

36:17He also accidentally knocked out one of my dad's teeth while having a meltdown. There are numerous stories like that that have gotten him kicked out of multiple schools. My parents have tried taking him to numerous psychologists and special schools, but he only seems to be getting more violent. Since my parents are unable to physically control him, the police have had to be called on a regular basis whenever he throws a temper tantrum. He's never intentionally hurt my parents, but I worry that as he develops into a teenager, his violent outbursts could be directed towards them. Every single rule they try to enforce results in some type of argument, and my parents inevitably go soft and let him get away with disrespectful behavior.

36:57He also has a pretty serious iPad addiction. My parents have caught him stealing it multiple times when he should be sleeping, but he's only getting more and more clever at getting away with behavior that makes him more dysfunctional than he already is. They tried medication, which seems to help for short periods, and even my brother seems to notice the positive effect it has on him. But still, with or without meds, one tiny thing can send him into a rampage. My parents know that most of my brother's issues are not entirely his fault. Most of his mom's side of the family has either schizophrenia or bipolar disorder.

37:31And just about every adult in that family has some kind of substance abuse issue, including the mother who used while pregnant with him. Man, this is so sad. I mean, we are talking to clarify once again, a nine-year-old kid who just did not have a fair start at life. The deck was so stacked massively against him from the get-go. It was really heartbreaking. My wife has been urging me to convince my parents to give up on him, but I don't think my parents would ever want to. My mom has also been raising him since he was just two months old, and it feels wrong to tell her to give up her son. But my mother has heart issues requiring a pacemaker, and my dad has fairly extensive medical issues that have me worried for both of them.

38:15I also know that the energy that they put into my brother could probably be used to help a dozen more kids and allow my parents to live longer. But whenever I gently bring up the subject, they always brush it off, saying that they get lots of help from the police and from the foster care organization. But the brunt of the work still falls on them. I understand that what my parents are doing is truly a good thing for the world, and that the alternative would be leaving my brother to fend for himself in some group home orphanage, which would be incredibly sad, and possibly ruin whatever chance he has to grow into a half-decent person.

38:49My parents also love him very much, and ultimately, it's their life. But my wife points out that I could lose them earlier than necessary, and that my brother still might not turn into a functional adult. We also worry that if my parents' health were to worsen, my older brother and I would be called for support, and neither of us has the bandwidth to deal with him even for short periods of time. Should I try to convince my parents to relinquish responsibility for my brother for the sake of their health and happiness, or let them continue to fight a seemingly losing battle and respect their decision?

39:22Signed, watching my adopted brother slowly put my parents six feet under. Oh man, what a sad story. Sad for your parents, who have to spend so much time and energy taking care of your brother. Sad for you to watch him act out to watch them struggle to respond to him. And sad for your brother. I mean, the kid is clearly suffering. It's just so tragic. At the same time, though, I do understand why you feel this conflict. It must be so hard to watch your aging parents give so much of themselves and possibly compromise themselves for a difficult child who sometimes just seems like a lost cause. Not to mention they're older, right?

39:59This kid's nine. It would be hard to raise a well-behaved nine-year-old when you're 67 or whatever. We wanted to run this by an expert, so we reached out to Nancy Yen, marriage and family therapist and adoption expert. And the first thing that Nancy shared with us was, it's important to remember that children need their caretakers more than caretakers need children. They need them for basic survival, of course, but also to fulfill their emotional needs for healthy development. And in your brother's case, your parents are probably the only real family that he knows. They've raised him since he was two months old.

40:31This is a profound bond, an important bond, and a non-negotiable one at this moment in time, in my view. As Nancy put it, he's never gonna not need a connection with his parents, with you, or with your other brother. Now, Nancy can't diagnose your brother or make any therapeutic recommendations, of course, but it's very clear that your brother's needs are intense and very complex. And to meet them, your parents have turned to the foster care system, to the police. Now, Nancy said that might be okay if these were short-term acute interventions, if the problem weren't getting worse, but the combination of your brother's unfortunate history, his explosive ways of getting his needs met, your parents' style of parenting, and Nancy's view, the whole dynamic, it just sounds inefficient and unsustainable.

41:17And the fact that your brother's behaviors are happening in other environments too, like school, that also speaks to just how big the problem is. But my question is, where do things go from here? What's going to be the effect of all these visits from the cops every time your brother has a tantrum? I mean, he's nine right now, right? If something doesn't change, it's not entirely crazy to imagine that that could create a relationship with law enforcement that might set him up to move through the revolving door of the criminal justice system, which is also deeply sad. Good point. We kind of know that jails and prisons are full of adults with mental health challenges, traumas, struggles with self-regulating functioning society, all that.

41:54And it would be even more tragic if he ended up there instead of finding the right support. Just hearing like, oh, it's fine. We get a lot of help from the cops. That's kind of like, maybe we shouldn't keep gasoline in a big bowl in the kitchen. No, it's fine. We could just call the fire department. Okay, but, you know, maybe don't have the bowl of gasoline. So Nancy's take on this point was, maybe let's not make law enforcement your little brother's unofficial co-parents. And I obviously agree. In my view, that is something you can bring up with your parents. Maybe you can ask them whether these visits from the police are really helping, whether they worry about what they might be doing to your brother, whether this is really a healthy and sustainable way to parent.

42:34So look, again, I understand why you find this so worrisome. If I were in your shoes, I'd be super concerned about my parents too. Your dad lost a freaking tooth. Who knows what that kind of stress does to your mind, your body. Things could get worse. And I can also understand your argument that the energy they put into helping your brother could be used to help dozens more and allow them to live longer. I understand that sentiment as well. But the reality is, your parents made a commitment to this child, a noble and beautiful commitment, and one they presumably made knowing full well what they might be getting into.

43:08And I personally just don't see how they can abandon him. Not right now. Not at age nine. No. If he's 19 and he's assaulting them regularly and he's committing crimes or he's bringing drugs into the house, if he's old enough to know better and consciously work on himself, that's a different conversation. But man, we're talking about a nine-year-old. He's not in control of himself yet. He needs your parents. They signed up for that. So Nancy's opinion is that there might be some hope here if you hold the idea that children do well if they can. That's actually a phrase coined by a psychologist named Dr.

43:43Ross Green. and Nancy told us about him when we talked to her. Apparently, Dr. Green developed a way of working with families with children who exhibit explosive behaviors like your brother. And in his model, there's still hope because he's only nine. And people with histories of mental health challenges can do well with proper medication and therapy. In fact, Nancy told us there are somatic and neurofeedback modalities that help children who've had perinatal and prenatal or any pre-verbal trauma, including the trauma of separation from birth parents. And there's also hope because your parents love him and they don't want to give up on him.

44:14And that's kind of the best thing that he's got going in his life right now. So having an honest, open, collaborative conversation with your parents about finding the right resources, that's the best way to take care of him and give him the best possible shot. Her first suggestion, start by becoming more curious about what your parents are going through, how they're thinking about your brother. Your parents brush it off when you bring up this subject. And I can understand why. As Nancy pointed out, most people wouldn't dream of giving up on their birth children, even with challenges this big. So framing this in terms of giving up on your adopted brother, relinquishing responsibility for him, it's a little simplistic and it's probably just a non-starter for your parents.

44:53You're going to butt up against this and get nowhere. Nancy was pretty emphatic on this point in her view. Adoption is a commitment for life. Even if your brother never turns out to be a fully functional adult, that doesn't make a good argument for giving up on any child in her experience because every child deserves a family. Also, your parents have not exhausted all of their options yet. So jumping straight to, I think you guys should maybe give up on him. That's probably very hard for them to hear, and it's way too soon. So Nancy's general insight here was you might want to consider changing the narrative, moving away from the binary solutions of giving up versus fighting a losing battle.

45:32Now, this isn't easy, but Nancy would invite you to explore something more like finding sustainable solutions for your little brother to have his family and grow up healthy and functioning. And that's a very different conversation with your parents. And it's a very different way of making decisions about him. I think that's going to lower your parents guard a little bit when it comes to talking about this. And it'll probably create more room for you guys to actually discuss the best way to take care of your brother. And also how this situation is affecting the whole family, including you. And that also means getting clear about what your parents' expectations are of you and your older brother in the future.

46:07This is a really important question that you've brought up. Who is going to be responsible for your little brother after your parents are gone or if anything ever happens to them while he's still a minor? I mean, who's on deck, right? Like how would you guys handle that? In this conversation, Nancy said that you can share your capacity for helping to take care of him. You can also share your limitations if he does continue down this path. But you can also talk about your fear of losing connection with your parents as a result of all of this. I mean, there's a lot in the mix here beyond just how do we fix, quote unquote, my little brother.

46:39This might not be an easy conversation, but even if you don't have the final say here, I do think it's important that you share your concerns and that you guys come together and figure out what the plan is. And if you all need some help here, Nancy had one big practical recommendation, which is you guys might want to seek out a good family therapist slash social worker slash mental health professional slash case manager who specialized in working with families like yours, and that's a lot of slashes, I know. These folks might be able to assess the protective factors and risk factors here, help your parents work with the right supports to find better solutions, connect you guys to community resources that are better than, say, calling 911 every time he has a meltdown over the iPad.

47:17Depending on your area, they might be provided by the foster care system, the Department of Youth and Child Services, and or other family-related agencies. I would definitely encourage your parents to look into this. And if it feels sustainable and they're open to it, maybe you and your other brother help them connect with these people. So that's our take. Giving up on your brother isn't the right move right now, and it doesn't sound necessary right now. It's time to talk to your parents openly, lovingly, about finding better supports to take care of your brother the way he deserves, and really the way they deserve.

47:51Because I don't think this situation is working for anybody right now. And look, even if a day comes when your parents decide to relinquish some or all of their responsibility for your brother, Nancy pointed out that the relationship and caring don't have to end. They might just look different. Parenting duties evolve as a child becomes an adult depending on a child's ability, their character, their life stage, their ability to function well, but that conversation is still a ways off. Focus on this one first. Big thanks to Nancy Yen for her wisdom here. Nancy is now providing private virtual consulting and therapy, and you can learn more about her and her practice at nancyyen.com.

48:25That's nancyyenwith1y.com. One final note here. I don't want you to feel like we're shaming you for asking this question. I totally understand the sentiment that comes with, hey, let's get rid of this kid. He's adopted and he's annoying and he's going to kill my parents. Like, I get it. I know I'm oversimplifying, but I don't want you to feel bad for having that thought because that certainly occurred to me as well as I was reading this letter. But I realize that it's unfair because he's so young. Time might prove that this is not something that can be solved. So I just don't want you to feel like a bad person for asking.

48:59And I don't want you to think that we think that because I don't. I get it. You can reach us Friday at JordanHarbinger.com. Please keep our emails concise. Use the descriptive subject line. That makes our job a whole lot easier. If your ex-spouse is turning your child against you, your neighbors are eavesdropping on your therapy sessions through the wall, or you're debating whether to sign off on your sextortionist's plea deal, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up at friday at jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Okay, next up. Hey guys, last year after getting divorced, I had to temporarily move out of my home.

49:33A colleague of mine, let's call him Chris, offered me a small rental unit at his house that was going up on Airbnb. I told him that I would be needing it for two months and that I would be going away to see my family for a month after that. He said that was great because he had relatives coming to visit. Before I left, I asked whether it'd be possible for me to rent the place for another month when I got back. There were no issues from his side. I cleaned and vacated the property and left for the holiday. Fast forward a couple months, and Chris sent me a text saying that I missed my payment for the month I was away.

50:08Baffled, I replied that we didn't have a rental agreement for that month. We don't have a written lease, but I referred to all of our conversations documented via text. Those didn't help, so I vacated the property the next day. I offered to pay for storing some of my belongings while I was away. When he refused that offer, I offered to pay for half the rent. Again, he refused. A few days later, I was sitting in my office working, and he came in, closed the door, and started discussing this matter angrily. I kept saying that I had said what needed to be said, and my offer still stood, but he refused again.

50:42After that, Chris ignored me and pretended I didn't exist, which was extremely awkward, especially in meetings at work. Okay, super immature. Ridiculous. Later, I got a letter saying that he'll be dragging me to small claims court. At this point, I was already battling my ex-husband with lawyers to avoid divorce court, which was really hard on my mental health, which all of my colleagues, including Chris, new. I started getting anxiety, and finally, I had a panic attack at work. Oh man, that's rough. I can see how this would create a pretty stressful environment. I was advised to talk to my boss about this, but she said that this is a difficult situation to deal with as it's a private matter.

51:24She suggested counseling to resolve things, but I'm hesitant to give that a try as being in the same room with this guy is bad enough. This is not the only lawsuit Chris is involved in. The other one is against a couple who bought his former residence. The man got in a horrific accident less than a week after they won the auction and became severely disabled. The house purchase got annulled because he would no longer be able to access the building with his disabilities, and Chris is contesting the annulment in court. Interesting. I mean, I could see that going either way. Sometimes big transactions get contentious and you need to play hardball, but it really does sound like a pretty crappy thing to pull with somebody who has a legit reason for backing out of a purchase.

52:06I think what you're saying is that Chris is antagonistic and has a pattern of creating legal headaches. So yeah, I'm getting that picture too. I personally can't imagine suing somebody that a week after winning an auction. Got hit by a car and cannot walk, yeah. Yeah, it's like, okay, put the thing up for sale and maybe you charge the guy the fees or the difference in the sale price between what he would have given you and the new buyer, but you're just gonna sue the guy? I mean, you're an a-hole, man. Seems kind of heartless. So she goes on, in that other case with this guy who got disabled, he already lost the first court round and is now heading to appeals court with over$20 ,000 in legal fees.

52:43Oof. Okay. So he's digging in for a fight. This really sounds like a person who's putting his ego and need to be right before any logic and certainly before being a human. Yep. I'm getting that picture too. And this guy does not give up easily. No, he's a Jeff. He's a Dr. Jeff for sure. He's a Jeff. Josh. I started working from home and I'm now on sick leave as I'm unable to focus at work and am stressed to the point of getting headaches and shaky hands from just walking the halls. I have a PTSD diagnosis and I struggle with anxiety, which is why I've been seeing a psychologist for the past eight years.

53:15I love my job and I don't want to quit over this, but I don't see any solutions. Getting a similar position anywhere near my hometown is not possible. It would also be sad because I just spent a lot of time and effort to get my house at the end of the divorce. How do I manage the situation? Should I even bother? What would you do? Signed, still paying the cleaning fee on this cursed Airbnb. Well, I am certainly sorry you're going through this. I can hear how difficult this whole debacle has been, how it's activated some old wounds. If you had to go on sick leave because of this, that's pretty severe.

53:50I gotta say, it's incredibly dumb that this guy is going to war with you over one month of rent on an Airbnb property. I mean, that's what, like two or three grand at the most, I guess? At the most, yeah. Yeah. He wants to drag you to small claims court to get it out of you when you have documented conversations that you were not on the hook for that month and spent his precious time and money and compromised his relationship with a colleague and damaged his reputation at work. This guy is just a real a-hole. There's no getting around it. And not just an a-hole who's probably obsessed with money, but somebody who probably can't stand quote unquote losing who might even enjoy, I'm getting the feeling, going to war with people like you and like this guy who annulled the house auction.

54:29Real talk, I despise people like this. This is a dangerous combination of stupid, egotistical, and determined. And I am really sorry that you got tangled up with this guy. But here's the thing. People like this, they're bullies. And I cannot stand to see bullies win. The small claims case, that's going to go through its own process. You don't have much control over that aside from presenting your case and trusting that a reasonable judge is going to go, no, you're literally on record saying she wasn't on the hook for rent that month. Thanks for wasting everyone's time. Case dismissed and you'll be free.

55:03And I really hope that happens. Sounds like you have a good shot. But what upsets me is that Chris is winning, so to speak, by making things so uncomfortable that you had to flee the office. You're taking the biggest hit and he's just showing up to the office as usual. And if we're being totally fair here, that's not all Chris is doing. Yes, he's the primary antagonist here. If he weren't such a dick, none of this would be happening, right? Okay, I acknowledge that. But there's also something about this guy that is very triggering to you specifically for reasons that I'm sure are valid and real.

55:35And the way you're working through the anxiety he brings up in you, or perhaps not working through it, that's playing a big role here too. Because another person in your shoes with different life experience, different chemistry, different tools, they might look at this guy and go, man, what a piece of work. This is super awkward. This is really unpleasant, but I'm going to have to ride this out and find a way to get my work done despite him and stay grounded in the fact that I'm in the right here. So I'm not blaming you for being anxious. It is what it is. And I can hear how debilitating it is.

56:04But if you really want to manage this situation, your only option is to work on your side of the equation, because it doesn't sound like Chris is open to having a reasonable discussion and odds are he's not going to change. I totally agree. I really feel that you owe it to yourself to figure out what it is about this guy that is so triggering to you and how this experience is tapping into this old trauma and work with your therapist on coping with the anxiety, finding ways, hopefully, to continue functioning despite it. And I am sure you're already doing that. I know that this isn't news to you, but I have to say I'm very invested in you doing that work because A, this guy sucks.

56:43I hate him. B, you are objectively in the right here. and C, you deserve that growth. And this two-bit low-key con artist, this frigging Diet Jeff over here, I mean, he can't win, right? Like I'm with Jordan, he just can't win. He can rattle you by dragging you to small claims court and he can get huffy with you in your office, but we can't let him win by driving you out of your workplace and making you fantasize about selling your house and getting a job in another city. In fact, that fantasy is itself a signal of the growth that you need to do to stop finding ways to flee and to strengthen these muscles so you can build up your tolerance for another crazy person's anger and also for the stress and the general discomfort that they create.

57:27I know this isn't fun to hear, but in some grander cosmic sense, I think Chris was sent into your life to force you to do this work. Ultimately, all difficult people we encounter are. For sure. If it wasn't Chris, it would have been someone else. And if this case goes your way, keep in mind that you'll still have to deal with him around the office, and there's a good chance he'll be just as annoying then, maybe even more annoying, because he'll have had his ass handed to him by a small claims court judge. So the solution here really does depend on you. Either that or hire Dr. Jeff from question one to bump him off and make it look like a suicide in his Airbnb property or something.

58:05Could probably use the work after he gets fired from the hospital. Oh, wow. That was dark. That was dark, Jordan. Yeah, that was dark. even by Dark Jordan standards. Sorry, folks. I wish I had some better Dark Jordan, like a way to get Chris fired that wasn't totally dastardly. And then it's like, oh, he doesn't have the money to deal with this anymore. But then he might just have more time and need the money more. So I don't know. I'm on the fence. It's funny. Speaking of Dr. Jeff, I think our friend here could actually benefit from being just a little more Dr. Jeff in her personal life, you know, just like 5 % more sociopathic just so she can learn how to not let other people's feelings, especially really terrible people's feelings get their claws into her quite so much.

58:44Yeah, it's interesting. Just like our friend from question one, I think this villain has something important to teach her too. Definitely. The question is, does she continue to hide or does she use him to grow? Sending you a big hug, wishing you all the best. You've got this. Definitely update us about the small claims thing. I'm so curious. I would love to hear how this goes. You know what gives me PTSD though, Gabriel? People who don't support the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. If you liked this episode of Feedback Friday and found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors.

59:21All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are in one place, jordanharbinger.com slash deals, or you can email me. I'm jordan at jordanharbinger.com. I can find any sponsor for you. You can't remember the name. You can't find the code. I'm happy to do that for you. Thank you for supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, next up.

1:00:11to relax, unwind, and reflect. It started about a year ago, and since then, everything in my life started to go significantly well. I've landed the best job I've ever had, and I'm doing really well in it. I feel more emotionally stable, focused, clear, and mindful. I'm able to manage the irritable part of me much better than before, which has had incredibly positive impacts on my relationships. I also kicked my alcohol habit that took way too much of my energy and kept me down for a long time. My mood elevates and I become more observant and accepting. I function at 100 % and I engage beautifully with my kids even when I come home tired after work.

1:00:51My wife, who's a doctor, is happy that I quit alcohol as she was always, rightfully, worried about its impacts on my health in the long term. She also seems to enjoy this new calmer and more understanding side of me. I'm also worried that if I quit HHC, I'll go back to alcohol. But I wouldn't be honest if I said that I'm not addicted to HHC. I can stay away from it for a couple of days, but if I have an opportunity, I take a hit. I feel some shame about this. I'm a grown man, but I'm vaping ganja like a kid. It doesn't correspond to the image of the serious and composed man I always wanted to become.

1:01:28I feel guilty, stupid, and weak for always being addicted to something. Also, after the birth of my first son two and a half years ago, I suffered a very serious mental breakdown. The worst time of my life. I got diagnosed with anxiety disorder and OCD, underwent therapy, and started taking an SNRI medication. I completely quit marijuana after being a frequent smoker because it exacerbated my anxiety, and I haven't smoked it since. I'm fully in remission though, and this all feels like a distant memory now. I discussed my HHC use with my psychiatrist, and she didn't seem too concerned. She's familiar with it, and she only told me to stop vaping when I start to feel the need to increase doses.

1:02:11I do sometimes feel that I want more, but I keep myself disciplined, and I take a break instead. Should I quit, or should I just stop overthinking, enjoy life, and deal with this only when it starts to get in my way? Is HHC dangerous for somebody like me? Signed, the weed might be synthetic, but the benefits aren't just cosmetic. I'm more kinetic, poetic, and empathetic, but should I be this unapologetic? Wow, that was a long one. All right, yes, this is a super interesting question. I've been reading here and there about these synthetic weed products, and I'm no expert by any means, but it seems like a mixed bag, so to speak.

1:02:49I know Spice or K2 can be quite dangerous, but then I read that these other ones, like this HHC product, which I hadn't even heard about till now. They're not so bad. Maybe they're harmless. Maybe it's just like organic THC. But even if HHC is totally safe, using it is clearly complicated for you, given your history. And I admire your discipline and self-awareness and keeping an eye on it, talking about it with your psychiatrist, making sure you're not trading one addiction for another. That's great news. We wanted to share your story with an expert. So we reached out to Dr. Ruben Kodum, a clinical psychologist specializing in addiction and trauma.

1:03:22And Dr. Kodum said that many people come to therapy and ask about their substance use because it started causing problems in their life with their relationships, with their work, their health. In fact, that's part of how mental health professionals diagnose a substance use disorder. They look at the degree of impairment in various domains of a patient's life. But your situation is a bit different because it's not so much that the HHC is causing problems in in your life, but that it's causing problems within yourself. So, Dr. Kodam explained to us that we can think about substance use problems as a form of self-medication.

1:03:55We use the substance as an external thing to try and make something internal feel better. That internal thing can be stress, anxiety, insomnia, whatever it is. Now, it's not inherently bad to want to fix those things. We all want to get rid of ailments to some extent, and we do it in different ways. Some people use HHC, some drink, some use harder drugs, Some people exercise, go for walks, use retail therapy, turn to sex or any number of things to make themselves feel better. Whatever the medication is, it's the same process. But all things can be dangerous when used in excess, even healthy things like exercise.

1:04:32So Dr. Codham's first thought was to step out of this binary of either I quit or I stop overthinking. It's funny, there's an interesting parallel here with Nancy's advice from question two, breaking out of that this or that mindset. the reality in his view probably lives somewhere in the middle where you have this thing that's been incredibly helpful for you and at the same time you know that you have a tendency to want to overuse things that feel good. So that's something worth staying aware of in Dr. Kodum's view. Aware though not hyper vigilant and definitely not naive about. So the question becomes how do you regulate this and use it in a healthy way?

1:05:07Well you're on the right track by talking to people close to you, your doctor, your psychiatrist was referring to tolerance. when you're getting less effect from the dose you're currently at, or when you notice yourself wanting to increase the dose, that means you're developing some physical tolerance to the substance. Dr. Codham said it's a good sign that she clocked that with you. He would also encourage you to think about other so-called yellow light warning signs that signal, hmm, maybe I need to scale back. These signs could be, I spend too much time thinking about it or wanting to use it.

1:05:36Another sign could be that you start disengaging from things around you, spending less time doing things you used to enjoy, hobbies, rituals, commitments. It's worth figuring out what those signs are so you can stay on top of them. Yeah, I think that's all wise advice. The other thing we need to talk about is this huge piece of his backstory. And Dr. Kodum's final thought there was, it might be worth going back to therapy if you stopped since the breakdown following the birth of your son. Having somebody you meet with weekly or biweekly to help support you, keep you accountable to yourself, work through the anxieties and the OCD that seem to be underlying all of this, that would be extremely helpful.

1:06:12And doing some of that may naturally keep the HHC use at bay, or who knows, maybe even help you cut it out altogether. At the very least, I do think it'll help you understand the role that this particular substance is playing in your life right now. The thing that stands out the most from your letter though, is that using HHC does not correspond to the image of the serious and composed man you always wanted to become. So you say you feel guilty, you feel stupid, you say you feel weak. I think that's very important data to look at. What I would be curious about is whether this HHC use really does conflict with the kind of person you want to be.

1:06:47And also, what does it mean to be a serious person, to be composed? Is that compatible with the responsible use of a potentially helpful substance, if it is in fact helpful? Are these things really at odds or do your self-definitions need to open up a little bit. In other words, the way you see yourself. But most importantly, I would dig into this feeling of guilt and the feeling of weakness and stupidity, as you put it. I hear a lot of self-approach in that, and I also hear the shame that you're describing. Maybe some of that is misplaced. Maybe some of it is totally unnecessary. But it's also possible that these feelings are a signal that you are developing a dependency, and on some level you know that that might be a problem.

1:07:30But also, these feelings could point to other ideas or other feelings you have, especially about how you care for yourself, especially after you went through that difficult chapter. And now that you have a child, and maybe you haven't really explored all of that fully. So wherever you land on the HHC specifically, I do think all of that is very, very important to explore. Agreed, Gabe. What are these conflicts trying to tell him? That's what he needs to figure out. Also, on a more scientific level, and obviously we're not doctors here, This is not definitive medical advice or medical advice in any way.

1:08:00But we did some very quick reading up on HHC, and it seems that there's little peer-reviewed research investigating the safety of HHC. From anecdotal evidence, HHC seems to have a similar safety profile as the widely used THC, which is encouraging, but the biggest risk is using low-quality, untested HHC products, which could contain toxins, poisonous stuff, essentially, and unreliable HHC levels. And the reality is, HHC hasn't received the same attention as THC and CBD, and that makes it very difficult to know what to expect or what the long-term effects even are. So the consensus is that it's always best to talk with your doctor before starting any new cannabinoid routine, which you've done.

1:08:39Again, that's great. All in all, though, Dr. Kodum's general insight is to bring those healthy self-medication pillars that support you and maintain the structure of your life. Allow those pillars to keep you up and see where your HHC use falls after that. To quote him here, you might surprise yourself. And good luck. Big thanks to Dr. Kodum for his wisdom here. You can learn more about Dr. Kodum and his practice at copepsychology.com. Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everybody who wrote in this week and everybody who listened. Thank you so much. Go back and check out Anna Lemke and Adam Grant if you haven't done so yet.

1:09:12The best things that have happened to me in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust. I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in our six-minute networking course. It is free. I don't need your credit card number. It's not gross. It's not schmoozy. You can find it on the Thinkific platform at sixminutenetworking.com. These drills are designed to take just a few minutes a day. This is the stuff I wish I knew 20 years ago. Dig that well before you get thirsty, folks. Build relationships before you need them. Again, for free over at sixminutenetworking.com.

1:09:41Also, in case you don't know, there's a subreddit for our show if you want to jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes. If there was an episode you really liked or an episode you really didn't like, you want to share some thoughts, learn more from other people in our show fam, check it out. Some really cool conversations happening over there. You can find that at reddit.com slash r slash Jordan Harbinger. It's not an official thing. I don't moderate it. We'll link to that in the show notes if you're a Redditor. You know how to find it. Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.

1:10:12I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Milio Campo, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Nancy Yen and Dr. Kodum's input is general psychological information based on research and clinical experience.

1:10:42It's intended to be general and informational in nature, it does not represent or indicate an established clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show with Rory Stewart. He walked across Afghanistan post 9-11 in the winter, which is incredible, but even more interesting is his philosophy on charity.

1:11:14He's president of GiveDirectly, which gives cash with no strings attached. I walked across Afghanistan just after 9-11, and it was an amazing time to walk across the country. It was the middle of the winter. I was walking with a giant dog, and the Taliban government had just fallen, but the new government hadn't emerged. And it changed my life. Really, what kept me alive and safe were the villagers. I remember feeling for the first time so lucky to be with them. I was so tired. I'd been walking then for nearly 28 days without a break, living on bread. And I felt a kind of wonderful sense of brotherhood.

1:11:52It was a very humbling experience. I think the biggest lesson I took from the walk is about global poverty. I was staying with some of the very, very poorest people in the world. And I was seeing a lot of really bad aid programs, really kind of crappy development programs. And a lot of these villages I went to had such a deep level of cynicism from the local villages about what on earth these foreigners thought they were doing, spending all this money and delivering basically no benefit to these villages. Basically their phones and their bank accounts, which allows us now to deliver money directly to people's phones without going through governments or middle people.

1:12:30Turns out if you give people cash, it's better than almost any other program for nutrition, for education enrollment, for health, for shelter. The truth is that we're not yet in a world in which it's realistic to expect people from Global North to pay every month to support the income of people in the Global South. To learn why cash charity is best and what's wrong with foreign aid, check out episode 867 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. This episode is sponsored in part by Conspirituality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling New Age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy-mad yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation.

1:13:13It's called the Conspirituality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies. An interesting episode to check out is called Speaking Truth to Goop, where Jen Gunter breaks down the pseudoscience behind the wellness industry in a way that is super entertaining and eye-opening. It's sharp, funny, and makes you a lot harder to fool, which, if you listen to this show, you know I'm all about that.

1:13:42From exploring cults to analyzing our cultural and political landscape, the Conspiratuality Podcast will help you stay informed against misinformation and resist fear tactics. Find Conspirituality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is sponsored in part by the Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a great new podcast can feel like searching for a needle in a haystack. Let me save you some hassle. Check out Something You Should Know with my friend Mike Carruthers. Every episode is packed with fascinating insights that you can actually use. Mike interviews top experts on topics that shape your life, like how to optimize your brain chemistry, the best and worst ways to apologize, probably could have used that recently, why couples hate to talk about money.

1:14:19No matter the topic, Mike asks the questions you'd want to ask, getting straight to the good stuff. And the conversations are always engaging, always insightful, guaranteed to leave you a little smarter than before. They've got thousands of five-star reviews, but do you even need that? I'm recommending it. You don't need other people's opinion, right? At this point, I would hope. Anyway, give it a listen. Just search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts. Look for the bright yellow light bulb and start listening to something you should know.