995: Cheating Chap Caught in Child Support Trap | Feedback Friday

23:09And to be fair, why is he so in love with somebody whose needs he can't seem to meet either? Namely, for honesty, for commitment, for basic respect. He says he wishes his wife would be okay with polyamory because he, what does he say? He loves how it feels to have a deep romantic relationship and to be sexually desired. He hasn't found those two important experiences in the same person. You know, that's kind of how a romantic relationship should function, I would argue. Yeah. So is it possible that he has chosen somebody who can't give him those two experiences? Or, and this is what I think he really needs to consider, is it hard for him to have those two experiences with the same person.

23:47You know, Gabe, my mind is going to our interview with Ken Adams, the enmeshment expert. That was episode 942, by the way. And one of the things he talks about is that men, well, people in general, but especially men, men who had overly enmeshed relationships with their mothers, they can sometimes find it difficult to enjoy both sex and emotional intimacy with the same partner. Interesting. Right. If I recall correctly, at least in part, it's because it often activates these old wounds and patterns that were created in childhood, where a child is in an overly intimate relationship with a needy or demanding parent.

24:21And didn't Dr. Adams kind of say that a lot of these men end up cheating on their partners? He did, yeah. Because they can't find what they need in one person? Or end up struggling with sex addiction, interestingly, a lot of the time. Because that impulse has to go somewhere, right? But for some people, it can't be fulfilled in the same relationship where the emotional intimacy is taking place for various reasons. probably because it seems like you're sleeping with your mom, which is not, you know. Right. But didn't he also talk about how cheating, I can't remember if I'm attributing this to him, or if this is something I'm bringing to what he wrote about.

24:50But didn't he say that also cheating can be an act of like protest, kind of like in a almost like an assertion of autonomy, right? Like I'm still in charge. I still have my own desires, my own agency. I can go off and have these experiences with, you know, with other people who are not you, you, my partner who recreate this difficult, painful dynamic I had with my parents. Yeah, it sounds familiar. I'm sure there's a lot more to it than that. And it's super complex. And obviously, every individual is different. Now I secretly wonder, was this guy's mom also really conservative? And like, I'm dying to know who his parents were.

25:22I don't want to speculate, but it's just that has to be playing a huge role here. I would think so. Okay. So again, I have no idea if that applies to our friend here. We don't know his personal history. But your point, Gabe, he has some personal history. And it's got to be Reinforming all this, his marriage, the infidelity, the sex addiction, this affair with the lesbian couple, the child support thing, his impulse to lie about all of it. Yes, and especially that impulse to have a secret life, because I suspect that that's not just a pragmatic thing like, oh, I have to keep this a secret in order to enjoy it.

25:50I think having a secret life that often serves some deeper purpose. For sure. That's the stuff he needs to be curious about right now. The paternity child support thing, that's obviously a real issue. And the best advice I can offer there is to contact a reproductive law and or family attorney immediately and tell them your story. I'm sure they're going to ask to see that agreement. I hope one of those gals can produce it. Obviously, the one who's suing you for child support is probably going to go, there wasn't one. Go for the other one that is probably angry at her former partner and say, hey, where's that document?

26:21Or at least she'll say, I remember you signed it and we agreed to it, but I don't know where it is. they're gonna tell you, the attorney, will tell you what obligations you have to this child, if any, and they can help you negotiate a fair child support agreement if it comes to that. That's your move there, but in the bigger picture, man, you need to get to the root of this infidelity and sex thing. I'm not shaming you for it. I appreciate that you've shared so much with us, but if you wanna grow, if you wanna have well-functioning relationships, if you wanna avoid this kind of drama in the future, you have gotta start digging into your patterns, your impulses, and your past.

26:52So you know what I'm about to say. Time to go to therapy. Find somebody good. Maybe somebody who specializes in sex addiction. Definitely somebody who's interested in exploring childhood and early experiences because that's where most of this stuff starts. And if any of the Ken Adams stuff resonated with you or you just want to learn more about how enmeshment might play a role in all this, I would read his books. I'd consider hitting him up and booking a consultation. Maybe even check out one of his workshops. I hear they can be profound. And I hope all of this leads you to the answers that you're looking for.

27:20Look, thanks so much for letting us be unusually direct with you, I know that some of this might be hard to hear. I know we say this with love and a genuine hope that you can grow from all this because you deserve that, man, and your wife does too. So good luck. You know who else wants to be in a reckless threesome? Us, you, and the amazing sponsors who support this show. We'll be right back. Gotta sign that agreement, though. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. It is your support of our sponsors that keep the lights on around here. All of the links and discount codes and ways to support the show are at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.

27:53Please consider supporting those who support the show. All right, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, what's next? Hi, Jordan and Gabe. A close friend of mine has a successful career, owns properties, and has been open about his long battle with clinical depression. After his divorce four years ago, he quickly started a new relationship and had two children. Despite not being married, they are in a de facto partnership recognized in our country. But two weeks ago, while I was visiting, he was in such a bad place that he cancelled our meeting at the last minute. Turns out, his partner took their children and left without warning.

28:29This led him into a spiral of distress and heavy drinking. The next day, in a panic, he incessantly texted her, which culminated in her filing a police report against him, citing a previous physical altercation which, he insists, was not aggressive but defensive. It doesn't help that he has problems with alcohol and marijuana, which my friend believes his partner would use against him if he ever decided to escalate matters legally. He's now facing a criminal charge, is required to follow a strict mental health plan, and is coping with a financial blow after his partner drained their joint bank account.

29:05His suicidal ideation has intensified, he has little will to engage in work, and he feels completely disconnected from his children and hopeless about reuniting his family. He's concerned about his job and income now, which he needs to fight the charges against him and to regain access to his family and his assets. While he can be challenging during depressive episodes, he's a fundamentally kind and empathetic person, never truly threatening, and I believe his partner knows this. I've offered my friend a place to stay for a change of scenery, but I realize that might not be sufficient. He didn't say no, though, which is encouraging.

29:41What are the do's and don'ts in such a delicate situation? How can I ensure that my support is both effective and sensitive to his current state? Signed, looking for some guidelines while I watch my boy struggle from the sidelines. Yeah, this is a really good question. I'm sorry that your friend is going through it. It's very touching that you're so concerned about him. We should all have friends as supportive as you, so he's a lucky dude in that way. So the first thing you need to remember is that your friend's life is your friend's life and your life is your life. I know that sounds really sort of basic, but look, your friend struggles with depression, with addiction, and what sounds like occasionally impulsive and unstable behavior.

30:18Even if he has some good reasons for it or it's not as bad as his partner is making out sometimes, fine. But that's his stuff to work on or not. One of the most important things in life is to be available to somebody without becoming responsible for somebody, to support them without taking their stuff on as your own. And I'm sorry to rehash this old Feedback Friday chestnut, but that is an essential boundary. It is the essential boundary. You cannot be truly helpful to your friend unless you honor it. This thing with his partner, it's interesting. It's obviously created a world of stress for him, but also he helped create this situation, right?

30:54Whether it's fair or unfair, whether he's dangerous or harmless, he has behaved in a way that has led to these consequences. One of those consequences is that he needs to follow a strict mental health plan, which, look, given what you shared about the guy, that sounds like a great idea. It sounds like he needs that. We can debate whether he deserves what's happening to him or not. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. Maybe he doesn't deserve it in a procedural sense, but it's exactly what he needs, you know, in a cosmic sense, man. But based on what you've shared, your boy needs to address this stuff if he's going to get healthy, if he's going to be a good father, if he's going to have good relationships.

31:25So I do wonder whether this situation with his partner kind of, and I know you love it when I say this, had to happen in some sense to bring to the to surface some uncomfortable truths and to create the pressure that he needs to finally get healthier. So the best thing you can do is allow your friend to go through this period of suffering while encouraging him to seek the help that he needs. And the help he needs, in my opinion, is, well, first of all, therapy for sure. If he's been struggling with clinical depression and addiction for years, he needs to be talking to somebody. If he's having suicidal ideation, that is very concerning.

31:56At the very least, it's debilitating and it's something he absolutely should be addressing with a professional as of yesterday. Also, if he needs some additional support to get through this period, he might want to schedule a consult with a psychiatrist, see if medication might be part of his treatment. And look, this doesn't need to be forever. If going on meds for six months, a year, two years, if that allows him to keep showing up at work, if it quiets the voice inside telling him to hurt himself, if it keeps his addictions at bay, if it stops him from dipping below a certain level, I think that could be a game changer.

32:26But that's for him and his doctor to talk about. Now, the financial piece of this is obviously big. Your friend is struggling to engage with his work, which he needs to be able to do to get better and keep his life together. So you could also recommend that he get a career coach to help him stay on track at work. But honestly, I also think that's something a good therapist could help him with. And then, of course, I think your friend needs to be taking care of himself in all the other important ways. He's gotta be moving his body. He's gotta be seeing friends. He's gotta get outside. He's gotta talk to people.

32:53Not sit there drinking and smoking a bunch, all that, which is something you could encourage him to do if slash when he comes to stay with you, like you said. But the main thing I want you to remember is that your role in this guy's life is to be a champion, a source of love and support, not to solve all this guy's problems. You cannot live someone else's life for them. And when you're a parent, you'll find that out real, real fast. You cannot save someone who doesn't want to be saved. You cannot make someone change who isn't ready to change. And to that I would add, like we talked about in our newsletter recently, you cannot and you really should not spare people their fair share of appropriate suffering.

33:30Look, in a case like this, here's a guy who needs to confront some very important stuff. And he's participated in a dynamic with his family that has brought those things to a head. So when he comes to stay with you or when you talk on the phone, I would maybe tell him, you know, you got to work on this stuff, bud, or it's going to make the rest of your life very, very difficult. And I'm here to support you however I can. But it's time for you to accept what's happening and put in the work. That's a gift. So don't be afraid to give it to him. And I hope your friend can take that in. I hope he uses this crisis to heal and grow, wishing him and you all the best.

34:03And man, that's, that is a tough one, Gabe, because I feel for the guy, right? His wife took the kids or a partner took the kids, but I'm almost like, I kind of understand why somebody might do that. If you're married to an alcoholic who maybe is abusive sometimes or out of control and is depressed, it's like, do you want your kids around that? It's a tough one. He's got to deserve what he wants, which is to get his family back. You can reach us Friday at JordanHarbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job a lot easier. If your professional fate is in the hands of a conspiracy theorist, your mother keeps going back to her psychopathic abuser, or you're trying to leave a narcissistic, addicted, manipulative spouse, but you're trapped, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday at JordanHarbinger.com.

34:44We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Okay, next up.

35:16introvert. I also have ADHD and love to go down rabbit holes. I memorize specific details about people and work them into conversations to connect with people in a memorable way. Because I've moved frequently and done a lot of volunteer work, my network is rather large, and I'm fairly well-known in my community. I've been invited to sit on local and state boards and testified at a Senate health and wellness committee. I've helped start community initiatives and attended many charity events and partnerships with bigwigs. Upper management often praises me, asks me to assist other departments and programs, and lets me take any trainings I choose.

35:53I've had over 100 hours of additional trainings. I'm on eight different committees with my organization. I even lead the book club, where we read books recommended by you on the show. I'm asked to help directors as a mere coordinator, and I've secured over$100 ,000 in grant funding. Wow, you're killing it. This is extremely impressive. Where's the problem, Gabe? Lay it on me. The problem is that I often find myself with imposter syndrome. For example, I was recently invited to sit on my state's court-appointed Special Advocate Association Board, which is full of people with masters and decades of experience.

36:28When I do things that are rung or two above me, I just tell myself that'll be me in a few years. But I question whether I truly belong in these positions, or I just know how to play the game too well. I switch to my confident, knowledgeable persona and fit right in, but at the end of the day, I'm drained and left wondering why I put myself in positions that feel more suitable for bigger fish. I mean, this is textbook imposter syndrome and is very normal, but continue. My husband and I are also the first people in our families to have bachelor's degrees. We're passionate about leveling up, but all of the women in both families are stay-at-home moms or have jobs that aren't careers, so I haven't had any personal role models.

37:11Also, I was a runaway teen at 17. I experienced homelessness, I struggled with addiction, anger, and abusive relationships. The people who know me now don't know that version of me. We recently moved near where I spent my teens though and it has stirred up more of the imposter syndrome. Since it's a small part of the Midwest, I'm also scared that my new higher-level relationships will recognize me from my past as my career develops. Should I keep leaning into these opportunities or should I scale back my networking and only focus on people at my level? Should I go back to school for a master's in social work to feel more self-assured?

37:46How do I finally kick this imposterism? Signed, looking for the right traits and still outrunning my fate when I am punching way above my weight. Wow, what a story. I'm a little gobsmacked over here to go from being a runaway at 17 years old, being homeless, struggling with addiction, experiencing abuse, to go from all that to being a social worker, managing people and testifying in front of senators and building relationships with all these impressive people in your late 20s, no less. Incredible. Can we just take a moment to appreciate what a huge accomplishment this is? This reminds me of Adam Grant, where it's not the outcome, it's how far you've come to get there.

38:21And if you haven't heard that episode, go back and listen to the most recent Adam Grant episode. So you are an inspiration, my friend. Way to make me feel like a total slacker over here. I've never spoken to Congress. All of this speaks to your resourcefulness, your hard work, your curiosity, and maybe a sprinkle of that ADHD that you mentioned, which by the way, way to make that work for you. There's clearly a lot going on in this letter, Gabe, but it's obvious to me, this is a remarkable person. So I'm so damn proud of her. This is amazing. So it's interesting. I'm getting the sense that this fire you have, this ambition, it's beautiful, right?

38:50And it's also probably a way to transcend your roots. and sometimes maybe it's also a way to compensate for them. My experience is that ambitious people, they're usually driven by certain needs, right? To be useful, to be effective, to be appreciated, to be respected, to be needed. And that's not inherently bad. All human beings do this to some degree. We should all strive to be useful. But I do think that it's important to acknowledge that ambition often has a shadow side. In your case, your ambition might be informed by a need, a very adaptive and impressive need to create a very different life from the one you had when you were young.

39:26And hey, it's working. It's working brilliantly. But it might also be contributing to this sense of fraudulence. The other thing that's also playing a role is that you and your husband, who also, by the way, sounds like a remarkable guy, you haven't had a lot of models for your kind of success, maybe any at all, from the sound of it. You don't have a clear template for your life here. And that can make things feel even scarier. You're inventing the way. You are creating the template. it. So that's got to be kind of anxiety provoking, not just because you don't know how your career should look, but also because you might not always know whether you're doing something wrong, so to speak, whether you have what it takes to sustain the success, whether you deserve it, that's always going to linger.

40:06Whereas people with more obvious models, they often inherit a certain confidence or security. It's in the water, so to speak. Although I got to say, another thing I've learned over the years is that so many confident and seemingly privileged people are also deep down just as lost and terrified as everybody else, oftentimes even more so. So imposter syndrome doesn't just hit people from humble backgrounds or whatever. Even people with good models, more secure childhoods, they have to chart their own path too, at least if they hope to individuate and build their own identities, which not everybody manages to do.

40:35So what I want you to remember is that being confused, being afraid, charting your own path, it's really hard sometimes, especially if you don't have a ton of role models, but it's a gift. It's the price you pay for pushing yourself beyond your abilities, for charting a path that is authentically yours. And I know this is way easier said than done, and it's way easier for me to say it than for you to do it. But as much as you can, try to enjoy that gift. This fraudulence you feel, it doesn't have to be all bad. It could be a symptom of you playing, growing, punching above your weight, and not always knowing what you're doing, which is appropriate and sometimes even exciting.

41:09It's kind of cool in that light if you think about it. But there's one last thing we got to touch on here, which is you have experienced your fair share of very real trauma in your life, my friend. Homelessness, addiction, abuse. These are profound experiences, tragic experiences, and I'm so sorry, first of all, that you went through them. I'm sure you already know how meaningful these experiences are, but I just want to appreciate that part of what you're feeling is probably the legacy of this trauma. I'm sure that it has shaped your sense of self, your belonging in the world, your sense of worthiness.

41:44And I do wonder if that's a big part of the imposterism. Not just a gap between her talent and her responsibilities, but maybe an old sense of unease that might make it hard to feel deserving of this objectively incredible life that she's built. Exactly. That might make it hard to feel grounded in her talent. And then it's hard to trust that other people are going to meet her with love, appreciation, acceptance, even if she's not perfect. Well, like she said, she's literally afraid of being found out, which is a classic symptom of imposter syndrome, right? But I think that feeling, it's got to be especially acute when you have a painful past because the other big theme in your letter is shame, right?

42:23There's some shame around your accomplishments, even though you have a ton of them. Like, is it enough? Am I enough? I also hear some shame about your background, especially since you moved back, which is so interesting, by the way, just the fact that being physically closer to where you grew up can make these fears more intense. I don't know what it is about that physical proximity, but it is powerful. I mean, you're clearly in touch with your roots more than ever, and that's making you anxious about being found out, almost to the point of like mild paranoia. Like, are people going to suddenly realize that I'm this person and I came from these experiences?

42:55So this is intense stuff. But then the more you try to outrun that past, the more the shame seems to compound. By the way, I also hear some shame in the mere fact that you're struggling with this imposterism, even as you find objective success and great feedback in your career. What's interesting to me, to Jordan's point a moment ago, is the way that you've used that shame to fuel your ambition. The way that you sometimes maybe deny it or stuff it down by working really hard to invent a new story for yourself. Like you said, you know, in those moments of stress or self-doubt, I just tell myself that'll be me in a few years.

43:30So you're channeling this anxiety into your work, into your discipline, into your research, your relationship building, your charisma, that's actually a highly evolved way to cope with these feelings. But it might also be a way of dealing with a very old terror and embarrassment, which I just want you to know, we all feel to some degree, but people with your particular traumas and background, they might feel it more acutely. So given all of that, how do you finally kick this thing? Well, I think it really begins with owning your story. Actually, let me rephrase. Not just owning your story, I don't mean like inventing one more story and then telling everybody about it.

44:08And this is who I am. This is where I'm heading. I mean, owning yourself just as you are your thoughts, your feelings, your memories, your experiences, all of it, not just the pieces that you feel are acceptable or attractive or impressive. Now, look, I understand that nobody wants to advertise their shame. Nobody wants to publicize their fear, right? Well, especially at work, right? You're not supposed to be vulnerable at work, supposedly. That's the whole problem. Totally. Certainly in our culture. But I do think that you can begin integrating these two halves of yourself. The woman who came from this difficult background and doesn't always know what she's doing.

44:46And the woman who's extremely talented and performing at a remarkably high level. What I would love for you to play with is the idea that you don't need to quarantine these parts of your identity in order to succeed. In fact, my experience is that the opposite is usually true, especially in your line of work. I mean, you are dealing with human beings. You're dealing with people in need. You're working on systems that are created to help them. So I'm not saying you need to go around telling every person you meet, you know, this is what I've been through and I feel like a fraud all the time. Obviously, there's a time and place for these conversations, but acknowledging where you've come from and what you've been through and where you struggle in the right settings, I think that could be very powerful for you, for sure.

45:27and also for anyone who gets to know you better. And if you do that in the right spirit, if you do it in order to connect with people or to educate or to ask for help or just, you know, to open up and heal a little bit, then I promise you, you are going to find great results. Totally agree, Gabe. But you're right. She needs to share her story with the right intention and the right people. And I would start with people who have the capacity and desire to really know you. So your husband, friends, family, mentors, peers, a therapist. To Gabe's point, you don't need to be a hot mess. You don't need to be reckless.

45:59We all know those people who trot out their tale of woe to elicit sympathy or get attention. I know you don't want to be that person. Or because they're working something out in a way that's just not appropriate. That's not you. But as you play with this, you'll know when you can tell somebody where your tender spots are. We talk about this a lot, but it's so important. I don't mind repeating it. The antidote to shame isn't hiding, it's revealing. So fun, right? I know, it sucks, but there's no way around it. And actually, my experience is that it gets to be kind of fun once you realize what a damn relief it is.

46:27So no, I definitely would not scale back your networking and only focus on people at your level. Keep doing what you're doing. It's awesome. But build relationships with people at all levels, including your peers. And sure, you can go back to school. You can get your MSW when the time is right. And if the degree speaks to you and it would help your career, I'm all for it. But I wouldn't pin your hopes for feeling more self-assured on another degree. It's not that accomplishments are wrong or useless. They're important, they're part of your career. But a master's alone is not going to heal your childhood or make you feel more secure in your role.

46:58But if you pursue it with the right mindset, I think it could be fantastic. But again, it's secondary. So keep up the amazing work. Keep leaning into these profound questions. What you're dealing with is so universal, so human. And honestly, it's a sign you're pushing yourself to grow and achieve at a very high level at such a young age, which is so awesome. Now you just got to balance that ambition with a little more self-acceptance and vulnerability. And that's a process. But you can start right now. That's going to take you very, very far. Trust me. And good luck. You know what else feels like fraud?

47:28The steal of a deal on the products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you find our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support the sponsors that support this show. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals, or you can email me jordan at jordanharbinger.com. If you can't find the code, you're not sure if there is a code, I'm happy to surface that stuff for you. Thank you for supporting those who support the show.

47:57Now back to Feedback Friday. Okay, next up. Hey guys, I know you've talked about going to North Korea a bunch. I hear that their banking system and money is a mess. How do you pay for things in North Korea? Was that hard? Signed, curious about income in the hermit kingdom. Okay, well, yeah, first of all, there's no banks and there's no cards you can use because they are cut off in terms of sanctions from the international banking system. So there's no SWIFT system. There's no way they can transfer funds from to and from any other countries, as far as I understand. Maybe you could do something with like Russia, but I don't know anybody that's able to do that.

48:33And I wouldn't trust that anyways. I've never seen a bank in North Korea. When I asked about banking, nobody used one. Most people don't even have that much cash. And if they do, it's stashed safely under their mattress or whatever. So from foreigners, they accept Chinese currency, euros and US dollars. And of course, they would love it if people they transacted with domestically could also use those. But foreigners are not allowed to use local currency. And people domestically, from what I understand, are not allowed to use foreign currency because the government wants a monopoly and to maximize the amount of foreign currency they have.

49:05Because unlike the US, which can print money when it needs to or shuffle things around, North Korea can't use its own local currency because it is worthless. So they need all the foreign currency they can get. So making sure that foreigners have to use it and locals can't use it is a great way to do that. And as far as how you buy things, Gabe, do you remember that store in the hotel that's super inefficient and totally weird? That weird department store? Is that what you're talking about? There's the weird department store, but there's a store at the hotel that was just bizarre. Oh, yeah, yeah.

49:33The convenience store where they have all like toothpaste and... Yeah, it's the most inconvenient convenience store in the world. So you walk in there and everything's in a case. And you're like, oh, I need toothpaste. And they're like, okay, there's a person whose job it is to unlock the case to get the toothpaste out. And it's not the same person that you say that you want toothpaste. That person has to tell another person. That person then hands the toothpaste not to you, but to the cashier who then has to ring this up. And by ring it up, I mean write everything on paper because most stuff is manual there.

50:04I was about to say, do you remember how every interaction required like a 10-minute receipt process where they would painstakingly write out every item you were buying and what the amount. It was absolutely ridiculous. It was like a third grade assignment where they make something really complicated to make sure you know how to do it. They would do that and write several copies of this receipt out in pencil, which makes no sense. And you're like, give me the 20 minutes later, you have your toothpaste that's been in that case for 15 years. And it's like fake crest from China, from like 90s China.

50:34It's just bizarre. And I remember being like, why don't they just have one person working here who does this? And the answer is, communist, socialist countries, they give people jobs even if the job is completely useless. Like, we need a person here instead of a traffic light even though nobody has a car. So there's a traffic cop standing at an intersection where there hasn't been a car in five days. And they're just standing there because they need to give jobs. And there's people manning escalators like, oh, we need someone at the top and we need somebody at the bottom them to make sure the escalator's running.

51:06It's just that's the most communist thing ever. That's why they're so inefficient. There's a credit card there. It's not really that. It's a charge card that you have to load. It's called a choreo card. I got one. And nobody uses it. It requires electricity. They don't have electricity in most places at most times. Even the places that say they accept it often cannot accept it. I did buy a full set of money from the hotel in pristine condition. That was kind of cool. So I have a whole set of North Korean won, which they sell you at their ridiculously inflated exchange rate. So you just have to look at it like you're buying a souvenir because you're buying a set of worthless paper with real money.

51:41In the end, there's not really a lot of places to spend money. Like they would love more foreign currency and they're always trying to juice it out of you. But really, the hotel can accept foreign currency. There's a bookstore where you go in and they have to turn on the lights because they live there and no one ever goes there. So they turn on the lights and they're like, you can tell they just woke up or something when you go in there. There's a bookstore. Every single book is written by Kim Jong-il, Kim Il-sung, or Kim Jong-un. I'm not exaggerating. Every single one. And they look like textbooks.

52:09There's posters in there and stuff that you can buy. You don't buy the books. You buy the posters. There's a brewery, which is also, again, I think in the hotel. There's restaurants, but you can't just go to whichever one you want. You have to make an appointment. Your whole crew has to show up there. The whole bus has to go there because they open the place for you. The locals are not patronizing these places because they can't. There's also a fun fair. Gabe, you want to talk about the fun fair? Oh, the fun fair. I love the fun fair. Although looking back, I really regret going on some of those rides because, you know, I don't know what kind of safety standards these rides are following and they're not, they're aggressive.

52:44Do you remember that one ride that was like mildly terrifying? Well, they were all kind of, so it's a modern amusement park instead of rides. And you're like, I'm not going on this. And the guides go, don't worry, this stuff's all from Italy. Oh, yeah, that's right. And it's like, oh, okay. But then you go, oh, wait, if it's in Italy, they probably inspect this stuff like every month. Not here. If it's in North Korea, they bought it from Italy and they've never looked at it since the installation. It was like there was one that was like a tick tock kind of thing, like it would just tick and talk and it would spin like a pendulum.

53:12Oh, that was terrifying. Yeah. But I love the funfair. I feel like that was where we got to interact with more locals than any other place. Right. Yeah. I remember many girls standing near me. And then when I looked at them, they would literally run away scared, which is weird. That just shows you the level of propaganda that was involved. Not like giggly runaway scared, but actually scared that I'm going to somehow hurt them. Oh, really? And I remember there were a couple girls that wanted to interact with us. Were you next? I can't remember who I was next to. I was next to somebody. And this old lady who was cleaning up the floor with a broom hit them with the broom when they came close to us to get them away from us.

53:46I don't remember this. Yeah. That lady was there to clean cigarette butts off the ground and make sure that no locals interacted with us as foreigners. I mean, she hit them hard. It wasn't like, get away from those Americans. It was like whack. And they were like, ouch, okay, you hit me in the shin with a broom. What the hell? But it's interesting. You find that with older folks in North Korea who have more of an attachment to the war and they maybe even remember the war potentially or their parents do. And they have more bias against Westerners, Americans specifically. But once you meet younger people there, they don't care.

54:18They actually, I found that most of them were really cool and open. They're just very shy. Yeah. But it was very fun to interact with them at the fun fair. And that's another place where they love to get you to spend money. All foreigners get to cut the line, right? But then they charge you an exorbitant rate and that's a way that they just make more money. You get to cut the line, but it's also like you pay per ride. So of course they want you to cut the line so you can go on more rides. It was very bizarre. And you see the abandoned fun fair and you're like, holy crap, how many people died on that thing before they shut it down?

54:44I love these North Korea questions. I love these travel adventure questions. But let's take the next letter. Gabe, you're up. So our next letter actually comes in two parts, two different emails from a very special listener. I got to say these emails really moved Jordan and me quite a bit. So we wanted to share them with you. And listen, before I dive in, I apologize in advance if I get a little bit emotional reading these letters, but you know, you've heard two grown ass men cry on the show before, so it's nothing new, but I just feel self-conscious about it. Okay. So the first letter goes, Hey, Jordan and Gabe, I've been battling cancer for some time.

55:15And after some recent CT scans, the prognosis is not good. Depending on how the tumor responds to a new course of treatment, I either continue treatment in hopes that the tumor shrinks, or I'll be moved to stage 4 and given the whole quality of life option. Yes, this is really bad news, and yes, it's a lot to process. But the weird part is that over the last week, I almost saw this coming. Even with no external indicators, my body and brain saw that I was not responding, and that I was on borrowed time. Barbara and I sat down last Saturday and spoke about this exact scenario. Strange that we felt compelled to have this conversation when we did, but I guess I'm more in tune with my body than I ever knew.

55:56I want to thank you for all of the excellent content that you've created. You have no idea how great it is to have your back catalog available, especially when I have a five-hour chemo session to get through, or just sitting in all these waiting rooms with nothing but time to kill. Your episodes help me get through it. So once again, my thanks to you. I would include Gabe in that, but God knows where he is right now. Signed, Pete. Well, Pete, I was sitting on the couch in the tiny, tiny house we were renting in Brazil, reading your email, low-key crying while my housemates made oatmeal in the background.

56:31That's where I was, my dude. Such a nice email. Obviously, this one got me too. I've been corresponding with Pete a little bit here and there. Right. So that was the first email. And then a couple weeks ago, Pete sent us a follow-up. Gabe, you want to read that? Hey guys, I've decided to give up on all treatments. Far too painful and worse than the disease. We now have in-house hospice. They're here to keep me comfortable until I finally pass. I wanted to take this time to once again thank both of you and your team for getting me through this. You've brought a lot of pleasure to my shortened life and I appreciate every minute of it.

57:06I look forward to meeting you all on the other side, but please do not rush. Take care, Pete. Oh, man. Let's see if we can get through this one without crying into the microphone, shall we? Let's try, man. I'm like really trying to hold it together over here. I know. We wanted to share these letters, well, for a couple of reasons. First, to celebrate the life of a very cool, deeply kind show fan, Pete Dinella. We only got to know Pete recently. And honestly, we don't know a ton about his biography, but it sounds like he led a very full life. Pete was a sergeant, I think, in the U.S. Army. Might have also served in the Marines.

57:39Not sure how that works. Based on a story he shared with us once. and he served in Korea. In one of his emails, he shared a photo of himself sitting in the back of a helicopter in Seoul, leaning on his helmet and what looked like his weapon. And his face, if I had to describe it, is boyish, focused, solid, brave, and gentle. And I can't even imagine what he must have been thinking at the time, what serving in combat at such a young age brought to his life. But it seems to have produced a man who faced his diagnosis, and I'm sure all the events in his life, with a ton of courage, a ton of humility, a kind of noble acceptance that I imagine is making his transition very peaceful and very meaningful.

58:16He mentioned Barbara in his email. I believe Barbara is his wife, certainly his partner. Sounds like they have a very close and loving relationship. I've never spoken with her. I have no idea if she's listening to this, but sending you such a big hug, Barbara, and I hope you're holding up okay. I wish I knew more about Pete so I could tell you everything about him. He's been keeping a blog during his treatment that is very vulnerable and very touching. We'll link to that in the show notes. It's actually quite an interesting document. You can get a feel for how this guy is approaching his own mortality, which is inspiring.

58:43But the spirit of his emails really says the most important things about him. I hope to be half as courageous and clear-eyed and down-to-earth as Pete is. And I'm grateful to you, Pete, for embodying these virtues so beautifully, for showing us what an enlightened transition looks like. But the other reason we wanted to share Pete's letter was, man, how can I put this without sounding super emo or self-important? Look, the fact that Pete is spending some of his last days with us is just insanely meaningful. Like, this is indescribably touching. The time you guys share with us, the role we get to play in your lives is everything to us, everything.

59:18It's what makes this show so much more than a career. So when Pete said that we helped him get through chemo and doctor's appointments and all that, it just filled me with this deep gratitude for him, for all of you, for this life that somehow allows me to put something out into the world that I care about and that people like Pete care about too. I literally do not know how to express how that makes me feel. I guess I feel honored and moved, and that's really all I can say. So as we wrap up here, so much love to Pete and Barbara. Godspeed, Pete. I'm sorry about this, all of it, Pete, mostly because I cannot afford to lose listeners.

59:54The quarterly numbers are bleak. No, I'm playing. Sorry, you know me. I have to crack a joke here. I'm going to end up with a sincerity hangover tomorrow. but seriously, thank you for being part of our show family, for your time and your attention and your words, for teaching me some profound things in this brief time that we knew each other. Much love to you, Pete. Much love to all of you out there. It's just one life, man. That's all we get. You gotta make it count. And I'm gonna take that into my weekend. I hope you do too, courtesy of our very special friend and listener, Pete Dinella. Hope y 'all enjoyed the show.

1:00:27I wanna thank everyone who wrote in this week and everybody who listened. Thank you so much. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust. I'm teaching you how to do that same thing, build that same thing for yourself in our six-minute networking course. It is free, it is not gross, it is not schmoozy, and you can find it on the Thinkific platform at sixminutenetworking.com. It takes a few minutes a day. You gotta dig that well before you get thirsty, folks. Build relationships before you need them. In fact, relationships, one of the only things that matter in this life.

1:00:55You can find all that for free at sixminutenetworking.com. Also, in case you don't know, there's a subreddit for our show If you want to jump in discussions with other listeners about specific episodes, you can find that at the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. If you don't know what that is, don't worry about it. You're never going to use it. Also, if you haven't signed up yet, Wee Bit Wiser, our newsletter, is even weir. Gabriel and I are writing it now. It's going to be a two-minute read. That's the goal. Something very practical that's going to change the way you make decisions or think about life.

1:01:21You can check that out at jordanharbinger.com slash news. show notes at jordanharbinger.com, advertisers, discounts, ways to support the show at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, or you can connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe and his definitely not Gito feet are on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace, Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I am a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer.

1:01:52Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. We've got a trailer for our interview with Robert Green, one of the most acclaimed authors of our time. Robert's insight into human nature is second to none, and there's a reason that his books are banned in prisons, yet widely read by both scholars and leaders alike.

1:02:24If we just sit in our inner tube with our hands behind our head and crack open a six-pack of beer, the river of dark nature takes us towards that waterfall of the shadow. Yeah. So when we're children, if we weren't educated, if we didn't have teachers or parents telling us to study, we'd be these monsters. We're all flawed. I believe we humans naturally feel envy. It's the chimpanzee in us. It's been shown that primates are very attuned to other animals in their clan, and they're constantly comparing themselves. Your dislike of that fellow artist or that other podcaster, 99 % sure that it comes from a place of envy.

1:03:06You are not a rational being. Rationality is something you earn. It's a struggle. It takes effort. It takes awareness. You have to go through steps. You have to see your biases. When you think you're being rational, you're not being rational at all. You go around, everything is personal. Oh, why did he say that? Why is my mom telling me this? And I'm telling you it's not personal. That's the liberating fact. People are wrapped up in their own emotions, their own traumas. So you need to be aware that people have their own inner reality. people are not nearly as happy and successful as you think they are.

1:03:42Acknowledging that you have a dark side, that you have a shadow, that you're not such a great person as you think, can actually be a very liberating feeling. And there are ways to take that shadow and that darkness and kind of turn it into something else. If you want to learn more about how to read others and even yourself, be sure to check out episode 117 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

1:04:11This episode is sponsored in part by the GIST podcast. If you're looking for a news podcast that is smart, unfiltered, and doesn't just echo whatever side you already agree with, check out the GIST with my friend Mike Peska. Mike's been doing this longer than just about anyone. It's actually the longest-running daily news podcast. It's earned that spot on Apple's top charts for a reason. Each episode's around 30 minutes, so it's perfect for your commute or while you're making breakfast. It's always packed with sharp, thought-provoking takes. What I love about the gist is that it's not stuck in a partisan box.

1:04:37Mike, he's a really smart dude. He digs into real questions, the kind that most shows avoid because they don't fit neatly into a political lane. He'll challenge the right. He keeps the left honest. He dives into stuff like the New York City mayoral race, that whole cluster, and the chaos of sports betting, or even whether talking to your plants actually does anything. He's an award-winning journalist. He's not some schmo like me who's totally unqualified. You've probably seen his work in the Atlantic, the Free Press, the Washington Post. He's got that rare mix of wit, skepticism, and depth that makes even heavy topics fun to listen to.

1:05:06And he's a great dinner guest, just saying. So if you want your daily news with more brains and less noise, check out The Gist with Mike Peska every weekday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is sponsored in part by Conspirituality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling New Age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy-mad yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called the Conspirituality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies.

1:05:46An interesting episode to check out is called Speaking Truth to Goop, where Jen Gunter breaks down the pseudoscience behind the wellness industry in a way that is super entertaining and eye-opening. It's sharp, funny, and makes you a lot harder to fool, which if you listen to this show, you know I'm all about that. From exploring cults to analyzing our cultural and political landscape, the Conspirituality Podcast will help you stay informed against misinformation and resist fear tactics. Find Conspirituality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.