An Exclusive Interview With Ukraine’s President Zelensky

0:05As Russia's war in Ukraine has dragged on, Ukraine has gone on the offensive. Its advanced drones have been hitting deep inside Russia, and it's inflicted major damage to Russia's oil refineries. Ukraine hitting Russia with a massive drone attack over the weekend. It came on the final day of Russian elections. This week, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is in New York for the United Nations General Assembly. He spoke before other world leaders earlier today. Sometimes it may seem that Ukraine is focused only on war because we speak about weapons, we speak about defense and sanctions against the aggressor.

0:45But Ukrainians did not choose this war. We choose not to die. not to lose our country, our families, not to lose our independence, our freedom. The day before his UN speech, Zelensky sat down with the Wall Street Journal's editor-in-chief, Emma Tucker. Well, now I feel very much put upon that I'm going to have to try and say... How do I say it? Lascavo. Lascavo. Próximo. Próximo. There. It's been welcome. Well, indeed. Welcome. Thank you very much for being here. Very good pronunciation. I didn't... During their conversation, Tucker asked Zelensky about the possibility of a ceasefire on striking energy infrastructure, what Ukraine needs to get through the winter, and how the nation is handling the stress after nearly five years of war.

1:45Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Ryan Knudsen. It's Wednesday, September 23rd.

1:58Coming up on the show, an exclusive interview with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

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3:49After attending the United Nations General Assembly on Tuesday, President Zelensky met with President Donald Trump. During the meeting, Zelensky asked Trump for an aid package of military equipment to help Ukraine survive the winter. A few hours after that meeting, Zelensky spoke with Emma Tucker at a Wall Street Journal event. Here's an edited version of their conversation. Like I said, delighted to have you here. It's a great honor. Thank you for joining us. I know you've had a very busy day, including a meeting with President Trump. What can you tell us about that meeting? So I'm very thankful that we had the opportunity to speak about almost everything.

4:32Not everything, but the main things, what we really need and what we can count, how to bring peace closer, about winter, winter packages, how to defend our people. And it's also very difficult to speak when you know that at this moment there is attack on your native country, people. And that's why it's, I mean, this balance, to hold this balance is not simple. We spoke about energy ceasefire and food security. One thing I wanted to ask you was, did he ask you again to stop bombing Russian refineries? not today yes so uh no no if really i mean this so it's not a secret that american partners raised this topic and between us before president trump to be honest it's you know it's time to time it's raising and the topic is increasing when there is some deficit and etc but our you know So we respond.

5:40We have to be strong and we have to show Putin that he's not alone on this planet, even if it's his dream. And that's why he has to respect people. People, how Russians can respect people? Only, it's a pity, but it's only when you show that you are strong. They don't respect weakness. Even sometimes when people want to be weak, it's normal for people to be weak to live to spend time to love children yes but now you have to demonstrate with russians you have to demonstrate that's why you have to respond they take our electricity we have to respond on their painful moments i mean some sensitive moments like energy that's why our signal is next that ceasefire on energy doesn't matter what energy you use or your people use.

6:33So, ceasefire on energy, it's time to end the war. Yes, to show something, something de-escalating. So, I want to talk about the prospects for an energy ceasefire in a minute, but just to go back to the Ukrainian attacks on the Russian refineries, did the president bring up the specific issue of diesel prices? Because we know that this is something that's very much top of his mind at the moment. Yeah, today we didn't talk about it, but by phone, yes, really, we were at this topic about the diesel, especially about diesel. I said, look, maybe for somebody it's important, for our lives are more important than the price of energy.

7:11And between us, I mean, this doesn't depend on us. I will be honest. Everybody understands the volume of Hormuz has influence. It's not the volume from Russia. But in any way, even if this has influence, if everybody wants to help just people with diesel diesel or with prices on diesel, okay, help us to stop Putin with blackouts on territory of Ukraine to attack our civil infrastructure. Water supplies. Water is not an enemy for Putin. I mean, just water for people. So if he attacks, he has to understand that the response will come from Ukraine and we will do it, of course, definitely. Till the end, till the war will end.

7:53So clearly you're not backing down. What would Russia have to do for Ukraine to stop bombing the refineries now or to sort of dial it down? What does Russia have to offer? Energy ceasefire. Yes, and energy ceasefire. I mean, it doesn't matter what kind of energy. I think so. When people want to say, look, stop here, we will stop here. Then you have to stop here and you will stop there. It's difficult. It's too much, I think. If you don't want to attack energy, anything, energy supplies, petrol, diesel, refineries, gas, water supplies, because it depends on electricity, on deficit and etc. Electricity.

8:35If you decided not to attack critical infrastructure, it means critical infrastructure. There is a list of critical infrastructure. And I think all the respect leaders of nations have to know what does it mean not to attack energy. It's very clear what does it mean. Putin talks a lot about the successes of Russia on the battlefield. But we also hear that his generals aren't telling him the truth. Do you have any insight as to whether or not Putin genuinely doesn't know the truth about the state of play? Or does he know and talks about the wins in order to convince the West and his own people that Russia is winning?

9:12So, first of all, the situation on the battlefield is not successful for Putin. So he is not winning. It's true. And he is not losing. It's also true because for him, human losses, it's not to lose. For Ukraine, it's to lose because you lose people. It's been that you lose in the war because all this about humanity at the end. So that's why he's not winning because on the battlefield, almost everything is freezing. I mean, moving a little bit. The problem is that his generals, as you said, he shared with him information and I don't know, he doesn't want to know the details or he knows the details.

9:59And I don't know what is the difference, but it doesn't matter. So for today, he doesn't feel that he has to stop. Right. This is the problem. How are you preparing? I mean, clearly then you're in for a long winter. And how are you, I mean, is Ukraine ready for what comes next over this winter, which is likely to be, you know, a difficult and challenging one for you to get through? So all this period of the war is a period of surviving of our nation in any way. It's not normal life. And just to close the eyes and say that's its normality, the new normality and et cetera. No, no, it's not normal life.

10:41and that's why of course you have to prepare I hope and we have a chance to stop and end this war before the winter if there are several if now we have now we have of course the first if is always the will the will of the United States especially of the president political will to end. I mean, he has a political will to end. But with Putin, it's not enough to will. I mean, for Putin, you need to pressure. The second, technologies. We need some technologies from the United States. We have our experience. We're always ready to exchange, but we need something from the United States. We need winter package.

11:31Missiles for Patriots systems. I mean, this is important, very important to have everything now. If you want to end the war now, you need to react now. So did you get a sense from the conversation you had with President Trump earlier as to what the American plan now is to end the war in Ukraine? The Anchorage proposal was, you know, it hasn't gone anywhere. Do you know now where President Trump's head is on this? No, President Trump's idea is to mediate and put at the table of negotiations Putin and me. And it's not simple. I ask, it's not simple because one of us is not ready. Yeah. And so this is the first.

12:18The second is to find some solution. And when you want solution, you want to find some compromises. It's again not simple because one of us is not ready for compromises. The problem for us is to wait and to go like we began to speak about it, about winter, and to go through winter and to survive and to lose so many people. This time costs, I mean, the price is very high. We can stop this war. I think that Putin said to President Trump, I think that he needs our territory and he wants us to live out our territory. And this is the problem for us. Because how you can, I mean, we didn't do it at the very first day of the war.

13:13We've been strong in our people and our children. And they're still, I think, as tied, very tied, it's through a long war. but they are strong. But we didn't do it first day of the war. So after all these days of surviving and just to sell our independence and sell our freedom, I think it's not about us.

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14:09I want to ask you about another meeting you had recently, and that was with John Ratcliffe, the CIA director, who you saw when you were in Ireland, I believe. It's a secret. It's a secret. Dan, you can't tell me anything. He told me it's a secret. No, no, he didn't tell me. But has he got a role now in ongoing negotiations? No, I mean, we decided that we will not share that we had a meeting. It's too late. The cat's out of the bag. But we decided.

14:50that's a very good answer sorry I'm so sorry

14:59so but he's looking good he's looking good sorry sorry are you going to see him again while you're here it's a secret okay no I'm sorry I can't who else would you like to see while you're here We were chatting earlier and you mentioned that you would like to have a meeting with Elon Musk. Can you tell us what you would be sitting down to discuss with him? No, first of all, we are thankful to his company, to SpaceX and to Elon. We really had good connection for our people during these challenges, during the war with Starlink. It's important. Yes, very important. The problem is that China is very close to such technologies and they will share it with Russia.

15:52And it's true, they began to do it and to be very, how to say it, precisive, yes, to be very precisive on the territory of Ukraine taking us. It was several times already when they tried to use this new technology, not massively, but they are on the way. They are training, practical time. So they use it just, I mean, they use the window of just the house. The drone came just to the window and hold and waited for the people. And then attack when the people came and they attacked. So it's new things. Between us, what really United States of America has, I mean, you have such technologies, yeah. Yeah.

16:35And China will share it with Russia. Already shared. We think that at the end of December, January, that they will share these technologies. And this is a fact. That's why I just wanted to speak with, I mean, not I wanted, we spoke with Elon. I mean, our teams have to speak about it. I think it's important. It's important because all the technologies which are today using, you know, on the territory of Ukraine, the answer is we're unstable for what? Why North Koreans are using technologies and learning in Ukraine? North Korean soldiers will come to this war. For what? To help Russians? No, I'm not sure.

17:21First of all, to get experience, to prepare the operators of drones, to prepare and to learn new technologies, new way of this war. Absolutely new. Yes. And then what they will do? where they will use it. Yeah, they will use it on the territory where there are their interests. And that's why I think that China is using their technologies with Russia. Not because there were great friends, brothers and sisters, not of course. Yes, everything is very pragmatic because they will need this experience somewhere. That's why I always say that is during this war, this experience, this too long war with all these Militech technologies.

18:08We have to understand that the distance between, I mean, there is no distance in this war at all, at all. That's why we need to share technologies. We need to share health. We need to share support. We have to stop any kind of terrorism, any kind of aggressor. We have to stop them. Tell me a bit about your own ballistic and anti-ballistic programs that you're developing your own. What's the state of play with these programs? So for today in the world, we know that one of the best is Patriot System, what the United States has, not only United States, some Asia partners. And as I said, some licenses in Europe.

18:55So on this track, we want to have licenses for the future. yes but in parallel way this one is great but it's very expensive and not enough yes not enough for the europe and for the world between us because the production is so small even with the increasing steps which i know american government provided and it will it will increase but not enough yes and will never enough so we wanted to create the uh anti-ballistic system with cheap missiles, with our experience, and to give it, to give the licenses to other countries, to give them possibility to save themselves, to give them, not even for the war, for peacetime, that their societies will, I mean, this will be sure tomorrow and they will come down and know that their shield is closed.

19:58That's what I wanted to create and to share it because it's so difficult to get one missile. That's why I wanted us to create thousands and millions of this missile and just to give people because they need it, I'm sure, just to have it. And that's why we began to work on it. and we think that in winter, end of this year, beginning next year, we will have, we hope so, to have the first system just to try and how it will work. This is the system. The name is Freya. And God bless, it will work. No, God bless, it will not work because we will have peace. Because there will be a rest. I just want to...

20:48We haven't got much time left, so I've got a couple more questions. One of them is very specific. I want to go back to the meeting you had with President Trump today. Did he ask you to withdraw your support for the International Criminal Court? No. Has he asked you to? Never. About Criminal Court? Yeah, the International Criminal Court. No, we never spoke about it. Okay. Really. Good. maybe I'm maybe I was sleeping this period of time that would be understandable so or maybe this part we talked in island maybe ah you know it was a joke it was a joke I just you should be careful there are a lot of journalists in this room yeah um so I have my last question for you is about you so we're very soon this war is going to have been going on for five years.

21:44And I interviewed you, I think it was three or four years ago, and even then, you know, you'd been at it for two years, and I asked you, how do you deal with the stress? And you talked to me about helping your son with his homework. We're now facing... I still have a small son. Do you still help him with his homework? No, no, he's not so small. All right. How do you deal with the stress yourself now? I don't know. I'm not sure that I really do. No, I mean, what we do, we try, you know, we try to do our job in the way when even it's not that people will respect you. It's about in the way that you can continue after the war and after this presidential job, you will continue living your country, go through the streets and nobody will want to kill you and hate you.

22:44I'm just because you've been like a piece of shit, not a leader and not a man. Not, I mean, this just, I mean, this is what you do. How would the way, how you live and the way how you try to live. Sometimes with all my mistakes and et cetera, during the war, you have so many mistakes. Why? Because you have to, how President Trump said, make a deal. So you have to make hundreds of deals per day. Not comfortable. Very sensitive. Sometimes, I know, when you don't even want to do this, but you have to. Yeah, so a lot of things. and that's why it's all about that you think that it's your attitude to your job, your country and your people.

23:41At the end of the day, everything is around people. So people give you energy to live and also there are people whom you hate and they took all your energy. And yes, and that's why it's all about it. So I try to live for good people. I hope that there are around us a lot of good people. Hope so. President Zelensky, I'm sure the good people in this room are hoping for a deal and that you finally get some work. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Go? Yeah, that's good. Bye-bye.

24:47Thank you.