James Bond Is Missing. He's Trapped in a Fight With Amazon.

0:05Do you want to just introduce yourself and tell us what you cover? Yes, my name is Eric Schwarzel. I am a reporter in the Los Angeles Bureau of the Journal. Didn't you mean to say Schwarzel? Eric Schwarzel. You know, I do like a cold martini. Oh, shaken or stirred? I actually prefer stirred. I think most people do. That's where Bond and I differ. The only thing that Bond and I differ on, yes. Eric, of course, is talking about James Bond, 007. The world's most famous super spy. Welcome, Martini. Shaken, not stirred. James Bond is here. Endless orders, 007. You'll be using this Aston Martin DB5 with modifications.

0:54007 reporting for duty. It is a long and storied franchise that has really survived so many eras of Hollywood and the world. I mean, it's hard to think of a 20th century character that has had the imprint that James Bond has like that. Three years ago, Amazon, which has been growing its footprint in Hollywood, bought the distribution rights to the James Bond franchise. And the company had big ambitions for what to do with it. But those ambitions haven't panned out. Since the acquisition, Amazon hasn't made a single Bond film. And there doesn't even appear to be one in the works. That's because there's another player at Bond's poker table The family that owns the creative rights to the character And that's been producing Bond movies since 1962 And this family can't stand Amazon I think this is a story about a beloved character Who now finds himself caught between two worlds There's the world of, let's call it the old Hollywood that James Bond grew up in.

2:09And there's now the world of the new Hollywood, which is represented by his new business partners at Amazon. And the absolute impasse and tension that has resulted from those two versions of Hollywood trying to work together.

2:31Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. The name's Knutson, Ryan Knutson. It's Friday, December 20th. Coming up on the show, behind the scenes of the feud that's tying up the James Bond franchise.

3:03The James Bond character was invented by the British author Ian Fleming, who wrote a series of books about him. Eventually, a film agent named Albert Broccoli, a.k.a. Cubby Broccoli, secured the rights to make James Bond movies. The first film, Dr. No, was released in 1962. Mr. Bond. James Bond Then, of course, the rest is history. I mean, Sean Connery is cast as the first 007. And really, almost every other year or so, we start to see a new James Bond movie. Throughout the decades, Cubby Broccoli shepherded the James Bond franchise, from Sean Connery to Roger Moore to Timothy Dalton. Then, in the 1990s, His daughter Barbara Broccoli and stepson Michael Wilson inherited the Bond movies.

3:57And so the first film under their auspices was GoldenEye. I need I remind you 007 that you have a license to kill, not to break the traffic laws. I wouldn't think of it. Good. So it was the first one starring Pierce Brosnan as 007 spawned an incredibly popular video game.

4:22I spent a lot of time playing that as a kid. An all-time N64 hit. Uh-huh. And then also kind of brought Bond into this kind of blockbuster era where these movies were massive events, massive spectacles. And after the Brosnan era ended, Daniel Craig comes on and the films get yet bigger and even more global. There have been 27 James Bond movies that have generated a total of$7.6 billion at the box office. According to Eric's reporting, nowadays, Barbara Broccoli is the main steward of the Bond franchise. Her stepbrother is 82 and nearing retirement. Barbara Broccoli is 64. She was born in Los Angeles but raised in London and has been working on the set of Bond films since she was a teenager.

5:17Once Barbara Broccoli takes control of the James Bond franchise How would you describe what she's like as a producer? So I talked to folks who worked with her in several capacities And to a person they all said You know, Barbara Broccoli is one of those names That a lot of people outside of Hollywood have never heard But when it comes to the Bond franchise She is the keeper of the kingdom And that goes to decisions big and small So she decides, along with others in her family, who will play Bond. And she really prides herself on having that kind of gut instinct. Because Bond is often played by an actor who is previously a relative unknown in the industry.

6:01And it's very obvious to anyone who comes close to this franchise that whatever idea you have, whether you're a director or whether you are a licensing partner, whatever idea you have, it's going to go through Barbara. I talked to people who worked on set with her who described it almost as kind of a, like a den mother mentality. She really will, everything from like individual lines of dialogue to managing relationships between the director and the crew. While the Broccoli's produced the Bond films and owned the creative rights, the MGM studio has been the primary distributor. And in 2022, Amazon, which has been trying to establish more of a presence in Hollywood, bought MGM for$6.5 billion.

6:49For Amazon, this gave it access to a lot of well-known IP. Titles like Rocky, Legally Blonde, and the Pink Panther. And importantly, James Bond. Amazon has this streaming service, Prime Video, and every streaming service needs an almost endless repository of programming to fill with it. And so they absorb MGM and with that absorption comes the right to distribute James Bond films. James Bond is kind of seen as the crown jewel of the MGM library that Amazon has absorbed. Eric says Amazon executives were licking their chops about what they could do with the storied character. Before the deal closed, Amazon executives got together and started brainstorming just what they might be able to do with Bond in their ecosystem.

7:40And they thought maybe should there be spinoffs? You know, there are like all these other characters like Moneypenny who could serve as the basis of their own shows. There was conversations around maybe a female 007 starring on a TV show. Really, just the kind of, like, brainstorming that I think any executive team would do when they have this really famous asset coming into the tent. But when Amazon bought MGM, remember, it only got the rights to distribute Bond movies. Creative control still belonged to the Broccoli's. And so far, Amazon and Broccoli haven't been able to agree on almost anything for the future of James Bond.

8:19And so how would you say, like, in a word or two, that this tie-up between the Broccoli family and Amazon has been going so far? Terribly. It is an incredibly fraught situation. I mean, the relationship has really frayed. You know, this was one thing that I will say became pretty clear in the course of reporting this story. I always strive for nuance in my reporting, but on that question, the answer was pretty black and white, which is that Barbara Broccoli has told many friends that she thinks the people at Amazon are f***ing idiots. That's after the break.

9:17To understand why the relationship is so tense between Barbara Broccoli, who controls the creative rights to James Bond, and Amazon, which controls the distribution rights, Eric and another colleague talked to more than 20 people familiar with the feud, including executives, business partners, and friends. So why does Barbara Broccoli believe that Amazon executives are, I guess just to quote from the second part of that, idiots? To keep it PG-13. I would say, you know, I think it's a combination of things. I think there has been skepticism from the jump that Amazon is the right place for a Hollywood property like this.

9:59And then I think since then, there have been times where she feels as though those concerns have been validated in how the company has approached working with her and what she can imagine working with them on any Bond film would be like. The relationship started breaking down almost from the start. And it comes down to what Eric described earlier as a difference in visions between the old Hollywood of Bond and MGM and the new Hollywood of Amazon. There have been a few situations where the vibes have been off and where it seems as though there's a philosophical difference between how the broccolis approach moviemaking and how Amazon does.

10:45And this was really typified for me in a story I heard about a conversation that was had between Barbara Broccoli and Jen Sulky, who is Amazon's top entertainment executive here in L.A. And it was early in their relationship, and Jen Sulky referred to Bond as, quote, content. Right, which for people in the creative world, the word content is a little bit loaded because it doesn't necessarily connote the kind of gravity that comes with the art that a lot of people feel like they're creating. Art, storytelling, right, exactly. And this was a story that was almost recited like a fable by Barbara to other people as symbolic of the gulf between Amazon's approach and her approach, which is that Bond, this character who her family has shepherded and mythologized, is referred to by this sterile transactional term of content.

11:47I think it serves as this very harsh reminder to people in Hollywood that the shows and movies that they work so hard on are being treated as these assets to be shoved into the piping.

12:06Another thing about Amazon that caused broccoli to recoil is the company's desire to mine the James Bond IP for spinoffs. The Broccoli family feels as though one reason James Bond has had the longevity it has as a franchise is its scarcity. James Bond really only exists as theatrical movies that are released every few years. And so there is always been a reflexive skepticism toward anyone who wants to do anything more saturated than that. I mean, there have been people who have approached them with so many ideas over the years for Bond TV shows. There was even a potential Bond casino that was floated at one point.

12:50And the response is always, you know, no, this has stayed special for a reason. And part of that reason is scarcity. This difference in approach is making it hard for Broccoli and Amazon to make important decisions about the franchise, like picking a new Bond. The most recent Bond, Daniel Craig, has hung up his tuxedo after five movies, and he won't be in any more films. And so Barbara Broccoli has said many times that casting Bond is often a gut decision. She's equated it to choosing a spouse. It's something you know. It's something you just, you don't sort of look to facts or figures to confirm.

13:30It's a gut instinct. But Amazon is not the sort of place that runs on gut instincts. Rather, the company loves making decisions based on data. And some people I spoke to who've worked at Amazon said the idea of casting such a giant role with an unknown actor with no track record is the kind of risk that a studio like Amazon isn't built to make. From Amazon's perspective, Broccoli has been unfair. And Amazon has been waiting for her to make decisions to get the franchise going again. But because the two sides can't see eye to eye, everything is ground to a halt. It's been three years since the last movie came out.

14:14And so as recently as last month, I was told Barbara Broccoli was describing the status as no script, no story, no bond. That sounds like a long way off from having another movie. It does, yeah. And things can turn a corner and then move very quickly from there. But I just think that a lot of people now know that this is a very tense situation with very little idea of where to go from here. Eric says this might become the longest stretch between movies since the franchise came out more than 60 years ago. So one concern people have is, you know, if Bond goes away for too long, will it be hard to rev up that engine of interest again?

15:05Some people also think, though, that scarcity can be a good thing and disappearing for a while will only sort of cause the appetite for Bond to grow. I think the concern for those working on the franchise today is that there's no progress in any direction. Eric says Barbara Broccoli doesn't seem to be too concerned. The family has worked with different distributors over James Bond's life, and they're planning to pass control down to the next generation. And so she really seems to think that people will come and go. The priority has to be making sure Bond lives forever. And there's this quote of her father's that she often recites whenever she's faced with a situation like she is now, where there's a new partner in town like Amazon.

15:53And she says, never let people in temporary positions of power make permanent decisions. And it really, I think, crystallizes what she sees as a mythic project that can't be concerned about who's in the executive chair this week or what quarterly returns will satisfy investors. So if a James Bond movie doesn't come out soon, who do you think it would hurt more? Amazon, the Broccoli family, or James Bond himself? I think James Bond is probably fine no matter what happens. He seems to have proven his immortality. The franchise, the franchise. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I think, you know, it's this fascinating dynamic because the two sides have very different things to lose.

16:47And for the Broccoli's, it's this family inheritance that they've been charged with taking care of, right? So there is a lot of emotional baggage there. But there's also real financial concerns, too, because they need to keep that franchise engine running to support their company and to support all of the Bond employees. Now, Amazon, of course, I think they'll survive if they don't have a new James Bond movie in the next few years. I mean, the total of the MGM acquisition overall amounts to a rounding error in their annual revenues. But I think for a company that is trying so hard to recast itself in Hollywood as not the big bad content machine, but instead as a new kind of Studio 2.0, this is a real black eye because it's the highest profile example of the goods that they have.

17:51But it's also the highest profile example of how they can work with that old Hollywood approach. And so far, it's not yielding any good outcome.

18:09That's all for today. Friday, December 20th. Additional reporting in this episode by Jessica Tunkle. This is the last new episode from us this year. so I wanted to take the opportunity to reflect with a song. Just kidding. No. Do it. You have to do it now. What are you, Kate, Jess, what are you guys doing here? We just wanted to like be here for this moment and wish everybody a happy end to this year. And a happy beginning to 2025. Oh my God. It has been such a wild year. We've covered everything from global conflicts to the Stanley Cup fad, to inflation, to the election, to the return of Abercrombie and Fitch.

18:56So many stories. And so much love from our listeners. We asked you over and over to send in your story ideas and questions, and we got so many responses. We've read them all, right, guys? Oh, yeah. Every single one. Yes. Love them. Love them so much. So thank you all for listening to us in 2024. It was such a great year. We hope you'll be back with us when we start another year of episodes on January 2nd, 2025. Well, should we do the credits now? Yeah. I guess so. All right. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. The show is made by Katherine Brewer, Jonathan Davis, Pia Gadkari, Rachel Humphries, Ryan Knudsen, Matt Kwong, Kate Leinbaugh, Annie Minhoff, Laura Morris, Enrique Perez de la Rosa, Sarah Platt, Alessandra Rizzo, Alan Rodriguez Espinosa, Heather Rogers Pierce Singhi Jivika Verma Lisa Wang Catherine Whalen Tatiana Zamis and me Jessica Mendoza with help from Trina Menino Our engineers are Griffin Tanner Nathan Singapak and Peter Leonard Our theme music is by So Wiley and remixed for this episode by Peter Leonard Additional music this week from Catherine Anderson Peter Leonard Bobby Lord Emma Munger Nathan Singapak Griffin Tanner and Blue Dot Sessions Fact-checking by Mary Mathis and Kate Gallagher.

20:19Thanks for listening. See you in 2025. Okay, so can I actually sing a song now? Are you going to sing? Please do. Only if you sing with me. I'll sing with you. What are we singing? We wish you a Merry Christmas. We wish you a Merry Christmas. We wish you a Merry Christmas. and a happy new year. We better stick to podcasting. I think so. I think so. Yeah, good idea.

20:58I did it! I got you to sing on the podcast. You did, you did. Actually, yeah, you're right. Actually, this is, your long con has paid off. no lyrics though but it still counts i don't know if i i don't what it helps that i don't think there are lyrics to that theme song yeah that's what i mean yeah but um how does that song in wicked go that you like dancing funny funny funny