Marjorie Taylor Greene, the Epstein Files and a MAGA Feud

0:05On this vote, the yeas are 427, the nays are 1. Yesterday, the U.S. House of Representatives overwhelmingly passed a bill to release files related to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. The bill is passed, and without objection, the motion to reconsider is laid on the table.

0:28Hours later, the Senate, via unanimous consent, also voted to approve it. H.R. 4405, an act to require the attorney general to release all documents and records in possession of the Department of Justice relating to Jeffrey Epstein and for other purposes. President Trump is expected to sign it. It was a stunning moment in a months-long drama over these files. And it was also the culmination of the first major rift between Trump and members of his own party. Here's our colleague Olivia Beavers. She covers Congress. Well, it's very unusual, especially in President Trump's second term, for Republicans to completely buck him.

1:06But there were four Republicans who said, we're not going to back off on our fight to release these Epstein docs. But there is only one who seems to be having a total fallout with President Trump that she claims is a result of it. And that is Marjorie Taylor Greene. And to hold what we consider a corrupt government accountable, watching this actually turn into a fight has ripped MAGA apart.

1:36Marjorie Taylor Greene, the firebrand congresswoman from Georgia who's been a leading figure in the Make America Great Again movement and who until recently was also a fierce Trump loyalist. How would you describe the arc of her relationship with President Trump? Well, I think she went from his number one defender to now being called a traitor by the president. I was called a traitor by a man that I fought for five, no, actually six years for. And I gave him my loyalty for free. And right now we are in split city. The implosion has happened.

2:21Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business and power. I'm Jessica Mendoza. It's Wednesday, November 19th.

2:34Coming up on the show, Marjorie Taylor Greene and the Republican rift over the Epstein files.

2:49Transcription by CastingWords

3:12or is ordered up to get started. In the podcast channel Good Things from Credit Reform. Everywhere, where there are podcasts.

3:34When we spoke yesterday, my colleague Olivia was on Capitol Hill at the US House of Representatives. And it's supposed to be soundproof. But, you know, you might hear a few reporters yelling every now and then. We'll see. Olivia has covered Marjorie Taylor Greene since 2020. That's when Greene was elected to represent Georgia's 14th congressional district. I'm Marjorie Greene, Republican for Congress. Save America, stop socialism. She seemed just kind of feisty and fiery. And so she came in with a series of controversial statements that were following her pre even being sworn in. Jewish space lasers.

4:18Green theorized a laser beam from space started the deadly 2018 California wildfire. Not just any laser beam from space, but one controlled by wealthy Jewish bankers. She called Speaker Pelosi a traitor. We're going straight to Nancy Pelosi's office, and we are delivering the petition to let Nancy Pelosi know that Americans want her impeached for crimes of treason. So this is going to be a lot of fun. She was combative with other Republicans. Two of the most controversial Republicans in Congress had a profane exchange on the House floor today. The feud was between Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert.

4:58It was caught on camera. You can see them chatting. Green was also all-in for Donald Trump. After the January 6th attack on the Capitol, she became one of Trump's staunchest defenders. There were a lot of Republicans who said, Donald Trump is politically dead. He will not be able to revive his career. He's not coming back. This is the end of it. But there were people like Marjorie Taylor Greene who did not change in terms of their support from President Trump and kept on talking about him. How did she become a MAGA star? You know, it's got a few different ingredients in there. I think one was just being the voice always defending President Trump.

5:39Another was she was unapologetically controversial at the time. And, you know, she sort of had this kind of loyal populist following. And Trump took notice. This one, I never, ever want to have her as my enemy. Marjorie Taylor Greene. She is so unbelievable. But then, in the spring of this year, her relationship with President Trump started to change.

6:12Marjorie Taylor Greene was potentially interested in running for a U.S. Senate seat in Georgia against Democrat John Ossoff. Trouble was, according to the Journal's reporting, Trump didn't love the idea. In May, Olivia and her colleague Josh Dossie reported that Trump saw polling that showed Green trailing Ossoff by double digits. The president texted her the polling. He had presented her with polling that suggested that she would lose. And, you know, sources told my colleague that he was surprised by how poor the polling suggested she might fare if she challenged him. Huh. He was not saying directly don't run, but the polling from Trump's political team was aimed at dissuading her from doing it.

6:55Green said on social media at the time that she wouldn't be running for Senate. She also criticized Trump's political consultants. A White House spokeswoman declined to comment. So the president has claimed that after that moment, their relationship started to be different. Marjorie Taylor Greene will tell you something completely different than what the White House will tell you. What would she say the issue is? She would argue that it's the Epstein vote. She says that he is trying to make an example of her. Green has long supported the full release of what's known as the Epstein files. These are files collected by law enforcement and the government during the investigation into Epstein.

7:35Why is this such an important issue for Green, the Epstein files? Well, she says she wants transparency for the victims, for more information coming out. It was long before President Trump came in for a second term. The Epstein files had been kind of just growing into this base movement on the right, and they were pushing for the release. It was sort of in their minds a conspiracy theory that additional information had not been released. This summer, the Justice Department said it wouldn't release any more files. The Wall Street Journal reported that President Trump's name appears in the documents, though being mentioned in the files is not an indication of wrongdoing.

8:17Trump has said he cut off ties with Epstein long before Epstein was first arrested in 2006. He has denied any knowledge of sexual abuse by Epstein. The president also told reporters this week he has, quote, nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein. After the Justice Department's decision, Green and three other Republicans joined with Democrats to force a vote on the release. by signing something called a discharge petition. One was Thomas Massey of Kentucky, who President Trump has been going after for a long time. But the other two are Congresswoman Nancy Mace of South Carolina and Congresswoman Lauren Boebert of Colorado.

8:56And President Trump has not gone after them. So Marjorie Taylor Greene is the only congresswoman that seems to have had a fallout that she's claiming is related to the Epstein files. The long August congressional recess followed by the government shutdown, delayed things for a while. But last week, the fight over the Epstein files finally came to a head, and it became a test of power inside the MAGA movement. That's next.

9:38Marjorie Taylor Greene has always talked a lot about the Jeffrey Epstein files. But recently, she's also started talking about other issues she disagrees with the president on. You started seeing her splitting from President Trump quite a bit more. And she's reaching this sort of point where she's starting to say, I don't agree with President Trump on his policies internationally and his involvement overseas, foreign aid, foreign wars. She thinks that affordability is a problem in this country. She's splitting with him on immigration and H-1B visas. She's really started to sort of separate herself from the person that was behind the MAGA movement and claiming that she's still very much an America first person, even if she's not necessarily tethered to what President Trump is doing.

10:27Green started appearing on shows widely considered friendly to liberals. She was on The View recently, and she received praise from some of the co-hosts who are typically pretty hard on their Republican guests. I feel like I'm sitting next to a completely different Marjorie Taylor Greene. Why the change? Why the evolution? Well, Sonny, it's the first time you've met me. You want so right, it's like you're on the left now. On the show, one of the hosts asked Green about her previous comment about so-called Jewish space lasers. Green responded, quote, that's been rebuffed. The tone has shifted and she is sticking more to a domestic policy messaging and apologizing for her past rhetoric.

11:12I would like to say humbly, I'm sorry for taking part in the toxic politics. It's very bad for our country. And even praising Speaker Pelosi. That's in shockwaves through the Capitol community.

11:32Green also started to suggest that Trump had lost his way on domestic policy. In one pointed tweet, she wrote she would pray for Trump to, quote, return to his original MAGA promises. Trump hasn't taken her criticism quietly. I don't know what happened to Marjorie. She's a nice woman, but I don't know what happened. She's lost her way, I think. He even has a new nickname for her, Marjorie Trader Green. It's the political breakup heard around the world. President Trump says he is withdrawing his endorsement for one of his most steadfast backers in Congress. Trump accusing Green of betraying the entire Republican Party, calling her a ranting lunatic and a traitor.

12:11Green claims she received death threats because of Trump's verbal attacks. When asked about her claim that her life was in danger, Trump said this. I don't think her life is in danger. I don't think, frankly, I don't think anybody cares about her. Meanwhile, the Epstein story stayed in the news. When Congress came back into session after the shutdown, a few things happened. First, House lawmakers released a trove of Epstein's emails, which had been handed over to them by Epstein's estate. Trump's name appears multiple times. After the emails were released, Trump took to social media and called the Epstein story a hoax and blamed it on the Democrats.

12:49At the same time, the lawmakers from both parties who wanted the Justice Department to release the Epstein files gathered enough signatures for the discharge petition. It became clear that the vote was going to happen. That's when Trump said he would now support the release of the Epstein files and indicated he would sign the bill if it passed. Which brings us to yesterday's almost unanimous House and Senate votes to release the files.

13:17And so what are in those files? Well, I think that's sort of a question. I don't know if we know totally what still exists. You know, the people who are adamantly pushing for its release feel like there weren't enough flight or travel logs as related to Epstein that were relays more investigative materials or certain communications regarding Epstein. Right. And that is what the vote yesterday was about. Yes. The final bill to release the Epstein files was supported overwhelmingly by Republicans and Democrats. So as a political reporter, Olivia, what does this whole saga tell you? We're trying to pay attention to whether there is a shift from Republicans and that they're willing to buck the president.

14:01This one's a little bit harder to kind of claim that. Yes, they are bucking the president, but it was also because they had all just been so on the record, all of these Republicans saying they wanted something. So I don't know if you can claim this as a strong turning point because the party is still very loyal. But it is definitely one of those examples to look at if you're starting to look for a broader pattern of whether the party is willing to start moving away from someone that had almost total control over Republicans in this administration. As for Marjorie Taylor Greene, she's continued to make the Epstein files a defining issue for her.

14:41She's called for the release of all the files and the names mentioned in them. And how is her feud with Trump and this change in the way that Marjorie Taylor Greene has been talking, how is that being perceived? It depends who you ask. So there are some who think that Marjorie Taylor Greene's change is a sign of her maturing, and a sign that she's seen the writing on the wall, she wants to make herself more appealing to a broader mass of voters, potentially position herself for a higher office down the line. But then there's the president's allies. You know, they're attacking her for being selfish, for wanting attention, for being a showgirl.

15:22You know, Congressman Ryan Zinke said she was a rising star who got too close to the sun and thinks that she made a miscalculation, a political miscalculation. What does this tell you about the future of the MAGA movement and the Republican Party? I think one thing that we're waiting to still play out is Marjorie Taylor Greene seems to be engaging with this question of whether there is room for a new standard bearer, whether the movement, the mega movement is tethered directly to President Trump, who is the one who helped birth it, or if it's ready for a new person to grab the torch and run with the basis, the message of focusing just on America and its voters.

16:06And I think that it sort of raises a question, too, about whether there's room for both of them in the MAGA movement.

16:36in this episode from Alex Leary.

16:42Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.