The Vanishing of an Anti-AI Activist

0:06Friday, November 21, 2025. Boy 12 Adam? Or I'm sorry, 15 Adam? Go ahead. Yeah, so I just checked with the dispatcher on A4 or A3. On a Friday morning in November of 2025, a 911 dispatcher in San Francisco gets a tip about a potentially violent attack. The dispatcher immediately relays the information to local police. And they said that this is OpenAI. The person was coming here. They were making threats to kill people here. The dispatcher says that a man may be heading towards OpenAI's headquarters and that he's potentially armed. Police officers rush to open AI. The man the police are looking for is named Sam Kirshner.

1:05He's a founder of an anti-AI activist group called Stop AI.

1:13Kirshner's photo is sent around to Open AI employees, and the company locks down its campus. Police officers search the area but can't find Kirshner. Sam Kirshner went missing that day, the same day that OpenAI went on lockdown.

1:36It's very unusual for a prominent activist just to go missing. Yeah. And no one finds them. Before he went missing, Kirshner had become more vocal in his hatred for AI companies. It became so alarming that his own friends in the Stop AI protest group called the police on him. Our colleague Zusha Ellenson covers extremism. Having covered activist movements, having covered law enforcement, having covered violence, I know that activist groups do not call the cops unless they think something is very wrong. Zusha's been looking into Kirshner's disappearance for months.

2:17I think it's important to look at people like Sam because depending on how the future unfolds with AI, we could see a lot of men in his same situation. And so I was interested to find out what had driven him to this movement to fight AI and then what had pushed him over the edge. An OpenAI spokesman said that robust debate over AI makes their products better. But violent rhetoric and actions, quote, put people at risk and make it harder to have the conversation this moment needs. Today, we go inside Stop AI to learn how their founders' disappearance has shaken the movement and how the AI backlash has tech executives and employees fearing for their lives.

3:04Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Jessica Mendoza. It's Friday, July 31st. Coming up on the show, the AI backlash takes a dark turn.

3:42data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. This episode is brought to you by WSS. Soccer fandom is big business, but for families, it's also personal. The jersey, the team colors, the tradition of watching matches together. That's why WSS makes it easy to find official soccer jerseys and gear for the whole squad. Offering the best value on sportswear, sneakers, and everything your family needs. Shop now at your local WSS or online at allyourmagic.com.

4:30What is this group that Kirchner founded, Stop AI? So the Bay Area is ground zero for the AI industry, right? You have open AI, you have Anthropik. At the same time that these AI companies are drawing people who want to get jobs there, who want to get into the AI industry, the Bay Area is also drawing people who are opposed to this technology, who worry about how it's going to impact society. The activists joining this anti-AI movement are concerned about job losses, data centers, and even the robot apocalypse. And Sam Kirshner was one of those people. And Stop AI was really on the most extreme end of these groups.

5:10Zusha talked to all sorts of anti-AI activists to report the story. One of the first people he interviewed was a Stop AI member called Yakko. I'm Yakko. That's what I prefer to go by anyway. The government knows me as Matthew Hall. Yako is in his mid-30s. He grew up middle class, a few hours outside of San Francisco. And unlike some of the other people who would eventually enter the movement, Yako doesn't come from a tech background. I was a restaurant manager here in San Francisco for a decade before this. So, yeah, I kind of stumbled backwards into this experience. Which restaurant, can I ask?

5:55A bunch of different restaurants. I started at Chipotle. Then I kind of got tired of the corporate nature of it. And so I was at different mom and pop kind of restaurants. Yakko told Zusha that when he first learned about AI, his main concern was about how much it was going to take over our lives. Like, are we going to be asking AI, what should I eat for breakfast in the morning? What should I be studying in school? What job should I pursue? Who should I date? Should I date this person or that person? Who do I really love? And it's like, even in a best-case scenario where AI doesn't become uncontrollable, we're essentially giving away our free will.

6:40And that, to me, just feels like dystopian. Yako had always been political, but he felt like he hadn't really found his people yet. Then, in 2024, Yako ran into some activists. These folks talked with urgency, and Yakko liked that about them. They'd hand out flyers and wear bright red T-shirts with the words Stop AI written in white text, like a stop sign. He decided to go to one of their meetings. And that's where he met Sam Kirshner. And my first impressions of him was that, like, he really understood what he was talking about. — Okay. All right. So thank you everyone for coming to this meeting for the purpose of stopping AI.

7:27— Kirshner would hold stop AI meetings in bars across the Bay Area. Though sometimes, because a lot of the people showing up were underage, they'd hold them at Tender Greens, the salad restaurant. The group also posted their meetings on YouTube. — Just a little intro. My name is Sam Kirshner. started protesting to Stop AI roughly a year ago. At meetings, Kirshner would hold court wearing a red Stop AI t-shirt, usually a baseball cap too. He'd stare out into the audience with these dark, unflinching eyes and talk about the dangers of artificial general intelligence. Artificial general intelligence, or AGI, which can lead to artificial superintelligence, or ASI.

8:08Kirshner warned that there could come a point where the technology would get so advanced that it would see humans as simply obstacles and that AI could then systematically wipe us out, like a real-life Terminator. And there's just no way you can prove that that smarter-than-human system will stay safe forever. So that's why we need to permanently ban it, because an ant can't control a human, right? Like, if we're the ants and the superintelligence is the humans in that analogy, there's nothing an ant can do to stop a human from doing whatever they want. Kirshner would play early clips of tech leaders seeming to make his point for him, including ones of OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.

8:48This was crazy. You know, I think AI will probably, like, most likely sort of lead to the end of the world. But in the meantime, there will be great companies created with serious machine learning.

9:04It's interesting, Zusha, that Kirshner was kind of using Sam Altman's own words against him, like as a way to recruit people into the movement. Yeah, and a lot of the people getting into this movement talked about that messaging as something that radicalized them, which is very interesting, right? So it's the messaging coming from the AI industry itself that's really radicalizing people. At the end of Stop AI meetings, Kirshner would make a call to action. This is not just a talk for you to come learn about how we could all die and then go home and scroll on TikTok. You need to do something. You cannot just take in this information and do nothing.

9:40You have to do something. People that you love are going to die. People that I love are going to die. I'm begging you, please, like, help. We need everyone to get involved now. How did Sam get to that place as an activist? So Sam grew up in the Seattle area. He came from an engineering background, And he loved coming up with ideas and tinkering. And so, you know, in his 20s, he came up with this idea to create a bicycle that you'll pedal with your arms and your legs. And the idea was that it could go faster than a normal bicycle while also giving you an upper body workout. And his dad, an engineer, helped him file this patent.

10:22And it's actually pending right now. As an engineer, Kirshner was already concerned about AI's impact on his own career prospects. and he started reading books that warned about an impending doomsday. And they make a deep impression on him, and he's really worried that AI would sort of stamp out that spark of human ingenuity. Kirshner grew so worried that he went out into the streets by himself. In Seattle, he started staging solo protests outside tech companies. In one of them, he carried a sign that said, quote, death of human invention and discovery equals depressing. There is no one there but Sam.

10:59standing outside of Google, outside of Microsoft, outside of different places, talking about how basically AI is going to take away the meaning from human existence.

11:12The solo protests didn't do much. So Kirshner started looking around for other like-minded activists. That's when he found a woman named Holly Elmore. It's really very normal for species to go extinct. Most species that have ever existed are extinct today. Holly has a Ph.D. in evolutionary biology from Harvard, and she founded an anti-A.I. group called Pause AI U.S. She linked up with Kirshner back in February of 2024 when he helped out with a protest. Pause AI! He knows what he does! Pause AI! Pause AI! Holly had been leading small groups in peaceful demonstrations in San Francisco. He was great, honestly.

11:55He came down in a truck. He made signs that were nice. He was, like, very business-like about it. And he slept in his truck. You know, he didn't even, like, bother anyone to, like, stay on their couch. So that was the first time that I met him. At first, Kirshner was nothing but helpful to pause AI. But he quickly became convinced that the movement needed to get louder through more direct acts of civil disobedience. Kirshner and another member started pitching ideas that involved breaking the law, like chaining themselves to the doors of open AI. But that was a line that Holly didn't want to cross.

12:35And I told them, like, we're not going to do illegal things in pause AI. And they kept pushing it. And so I kicked them out because of that. I just kind of matter-of-factly was like, get out. Like, you got to do your own thing. Cast out, Kirshner and another activist decided to form their own group in the spring of 2024. They called it Stop AI. Holly wasn't thrilled. It was very annoying because it's almost like they copied our name. It's like they leave and then they, like, create a constant source of confusion for everybody. Kirshner branded his group as more radical than Holly's, but still explicitly committed to nonviolence.

13:16One of Stop AI's earliest recruits was Yakko. And they were like, we have a spot. We could use your help if that's something you'd like to do. And so I moved into this very small house that we were all sharing. Yakko moved into a spot in an industrial area of Oakland that became known as the Barracks. Kirshner already lived there, along with two other guys who had joined the movement. The barracks became the heart of Stop AI, the group's headquarters, and a home where the leaders lived full-time. Here's Zusha and Yako again. What was it like joining forces with the folks at Stop AI? Describe where you moved, what you guys were doing.

14:00It was one room, including the kitchen, and a bathroom. There was four of us, and we slept in two bunk beds. So we were literally right on top of each other. the only way to get any space from each other was to physically like leave the house. And basically they spend all their time together. So they wake up, they work on their protest flyers, they do a little fundraising. A lot of times Sam would have something that he really was passionately working on, whether that was a press release or he was taking calls from people who were fighting data centers in their communities. Jaco describes the barracks as something like a dysfunctional family.

14:41Still, it gave him purpose. It was like finally finding people who were putting their money where their mouth was. And they weren't just paying lip service to their beliefs. They believed these things so much that they dropped everything in their lives. And they came out here and moved into a one room. I'm not going to say shack, but shack. And we're just focused on this and working on this 24-7 full time. Most of the activists in Stop AI weren't all that experienced, except for Wyn Kaufman. I don't really have a visceral fear of extinction. Wyn is in her late 60s. She'd been arrested for acts of nonviolent civil disobedience before.

15:31The guys in the barracks respected that. And Wind is a longtime activist in the Bay Area. She's been involved in a lot of different causes, most recently the Palestinian cause, that sort of thing. And she, I think, provided kind of a counterweight to these young, impatient men. I once told them that they should go to a nonviolent communication workshop because the way they conducted their meetings was just ridiculous. They always ended up yelling at each other and calling each other names. Wait, why would they yell at each other at the meeting? Because they disagreed about stuff, like bringing in other issues.

16:09A big point of debate for the group was messaging. Some members thought that Stop AI would have an easier time recruiting if they focused on more kitchen table issues, like mass layoffs in data centers. Sam's position was none of that matters if nobody's here. And so, and he is right. It's like if you're all about to die, then really having a job doesn't matter. Kirshner was stubborn. Once, when a group member suggested printing Stop AI on purple shirts rather than red, Kirshner blew up at them. Wynn says she once suggested to Kirshner that he should get help from a therapist. I don't know that I ever remember him laughing.

16:52That's something. Maybe he'll, like, if somebody makes a joke, he'll go, you know, but like really laughing. I don't think I ever remember him doing that. By the time Wynn got involved with Stop AI, Kirshner was focused on staging big acts of civil disobedience. The goal was to get arrested in order to get a trial. That way, Stop AI could challenge the dangers of AI in a courtroom. They pulled off one of those big stunts in February of 2025. Kirshner and three stop AI activists wrap a chain around the front door of OpenAI's headquarters. They lock the chain with a master lock and sit down in front of it.

17:36You attend protesters gather today outside the San Francisco headquarters of tech firm OpenAI, concerned that their technology could cause, quote, human extinction. Your life is at stake. Sam was at the megaphone and saying, you know, we're asking people to join us and sitting down and blocking the doors. Everything we love is being put at risk by the global race to super intelligence. I looked at them and they're just four white guys. I'm like, you know, they could really use one more person and a woman. Wynn takes a seat in front of the doors with the rest of the group. Within an hour, the police show up.

18:14But some of the Stop.ai members don't budge. Officers cut the chains from OpenAI's doors and arrest the protesters. And this was really a big moment for them. They were going to get to have this big splash of publicity to explain why they were protesting. That's the whole point of civil disobedience. And so they're very excited. Now, StopAI had a trial ahead of them. Here's Kirshner talking about their defense strategy on a podcast. When the trial comes, the plan is to lead the necessity to defense. We say that the actions we took are necessary and just because we're trying to raise awareness that these companies are going to kill everyone and or take all of our jobs.

18:59For the trial, Stop AI planned to collect evidence from one very important witness. They would try to get Sam Altman, the CEO of OpenAI, into court to testify. and they would talk about how the dangers of AI were so great that they had to be arrested for basically warning the public about them. Stop AI's attorneys had been trying to serve Sam Altman with a subpoena for months, without success. Finally, in November of 2025, they got their chance. Altman was scheduled to give a talk with another big San Francisco name, the coach of the Golden State Warriors, Steve Kerr. This is Sam Altman, and this is Coach Kerr.

19:39And I'm Manny. Altman's sitting on stage in a plush yellow chair. He's in sneakers, jeans, and a long-sleeved T-shirt. And just as the conversation is about to start, the moderator gets interrupted. ...many years ago that you probably were at. Oh, oh, sorry. I'm sorry, go ahead. A man saunters onto the stage, waving a piece of paper in Altman's direction. Thank you. A subpoena for Sam Altman. Can you take him off the stage? Thank you. Altman sits there, looking stunned and confused. He's just been served. Wow, getting off to a dramatic start already. Holy moly. What the heck, check this out. Sam Altman getting served with a subpoena live during a speech?

20:25Video of the subpoena moment hits the internet. Just minutes into their talk, a man rushed onto the stage, paper in hand, and declared that he was serving Sam Altman with a subpoena. Now, Altman's been called as a witness at a trial that could literally become the first courtroom debate in history about whether artificial intelligence poses an extinction-level threat. This video went super viral because it was the CEO of OpenAI, one of the most important companies in the country, looking very quizzically and surprised at this investigator handing him a subpoena. And so that was really the high point for StopAI in terms of exposure, right?

21:03It was really this stroke of luck that got them on the map. It was pretty exciting. It was definitely a pretty exciting moment. In the barracks, Yako says the activists were thrilled with the amount of attention that their cause was finally receiving. But it wasn't exactly like we were popping champagne bottles. It was more like, OK, cool. We scored a win. And then it was just like, OK, so what are we going to do now? So how do we build on this?

21:29Over at Paws AI, Holly Elmore had seen the video, too. and she was impressed with what Kirshner had pulled off. Cars on the table. I did not think that was going to work. And then he was actually succeeding, and he had, like, the major prize was there. And it's two weeks later that he just throws it all away. Like, I—it still shocked me what happened. Soon, Sam Kirshner would vanish. That's after the break.

22:31location, and more. Sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95 % more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. And listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now and support the show by saying you heard about Indeed here.

23:04Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed-sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by Optum. Healthcare doesn't always work great. If you ever waited on a refill or couldn't schedule an appointment, you get it. That's what Optum is changing. They're using data and technology to integrate patient care, pharmacy, and everything else so healthcare is connected, not complicated. That means cheaper prescriptions that are easier to get and care that looks at the whole person how you need it. Optum is making healthcare work as one for everyone.

23:38Learn more at business.optum.com.

23:48The high of the Altman subpoena didn't last long. Here's Matthew Hall, a.k.a. Yako. Things were going well on the surface. We were scoring some wins, but the tension in the group had been building for a long time. I think some people in the group came to resent Sam. They really, really came to despise him. Sam Kirshner was growing increasingly harsh and uncompromising. Yeah, he was a jerk. He was stubborn. But he was a good man. And he was really just trying to help people the best way that he knew how. Unbeknownst to Yakko, though, Kirshner was having serious doubts about his commitment to nonviolence.

24:37Here's Zusha again. We spoke with one Stop AI member who said that Sam would take him out of the barracks there. They would leave their phones in the barracks so no one could overhear them or I don't know what. And he would take him under the freeway. And then he would kind of talk to him about whether violence might be necessary in this fight against AI. Tensions came to a head at a meeting last year. It was a Sunday, November 16th. Stop AI leadership was in the barracks. Yako was there. And it ended up devolving into a pretty intense disagreement, argument over what I thought was a pretty petty difference.

25:25Wind was there too. She and Kirshner had been planning the group's next big stunt. We were preparing the message that we would put out once Sam and I did this thing. Kirshner and Wind were planning to scale the Golden Gate Bridge and hang an enormous Stop AI banner from it. But the group was still arguing about what they would say along with the stunt. Kirshner wanted to say something about how human extinction is coming in the next one to three years. Another Stop AI activist named Derek disagreed. And Derek was like, no, we can't say that because next year, then we're going to have to say one to two years and then we're going to have to say one to...