741 Indie Lee: Founder of Indie Lee Skincare

0:00I am unwilling to give up, but I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be.

0:09Kara Goldin:You just want to make sure you will get knocked down, but just make sure you don't get knocked out. So your only choice should be, go focus on what you can control. Hi everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world's greatest leaders. We'll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can't wait to get started. Let's go. Hi, everyone, and welcome back to The Kira Golden Show. Today, we're diving into the world of clean beauty, a space that's exploded in the last decade, but one of my favorite brands and exciting guest, has been pioneering since the very beginning.

0:59Kara Goldin:And my guest today is Indie Lee, who is the founder of Indie Lee Skin Care. So Indie's journey started in the early 2000s. And when I guess she was diagnosed with a life-threatening brain tumor, I cannot wait to get into the journey. She is a survivor and an incredible, incredible entrepreneur who started with the products we put on our skin. And in 2010, when she launched Indie Lee Skincare, which is a botanically derived, cruelty-free brand built on the pillars of clean ingredients, transparency, and wellness. Like I said, she was really at the forefront of what everybody is talking about today.

1:54Kara Goldin:So the brand is well-known and incredible, incredible retailers, obviously available online too. And today we have Indy here to really share with us everything that she's learned along the way. So welcome, Indy. So nice to meet you finally. Thank you so much. An honor to be here. So what an incredible brand that you've built. So let's start at the beginning when someone picks up an Indie Lee product. What are they really buying into besides skincare? Well, for me, it's always been about empowerment, right? And education. So for me, it's about transparency, authenticity. And so when people pick up an Indie Lee product, they know that I'm using the best of the best in terms of ingredients.

2:47Many of our products are Cosmos certified, which means that everything from farm to face. So they know they're getting high potency ingredients. They know that they're going to be botanically derived. They know that it's going to be cruelty free. And they know it's built on better for you, better for the planet.

3:03Kara Goldin:I love it. So take us back to those early days. What was the moment, I guess you had a pretty scary diagnosis and then you still decided that you were going to create and really, really push forward in an industry that was not about this concept called clean beauty and really create the mission driven brand that Indie Lee is today. Can you talk about those early days and sort of what you were going through? Sure. You know, I started off as an accountant. So I'm actually a CPA by trade. I worked for HBO, so Managing Retentional Finance Division. So it's very much the corporate now. And then I left to spend more time with my children, got very involved with the farm to table movement and was really interested in what we were putting in our body and started to understand what that babies were being born with a toxic load that you know what parents could be mothers could be putting on their skin could be transmitted all those things start to learn but really wasn't thinking about the full impact on it was diagnosed first with rheumatoid arthritis so i built a greenhouse in my backyard it's very like i said farm to table selling edible flowers to whole foods microgreens to restaurants teaching children the importance and building school gardens and was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis in 2008 in June and could no longer work in the greenhouse, could no longer work in the farm.

4:36I was like, what am I going to do with my time? I'm a type A personality, like to the core. And my sister announced that she's pregnant. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm going to use ingredients that I was growing and make a little product line just to invalid her baby shower using ingredients that I've been growing. And everyone's like, this is what you need to do. And I'm like, clean beauty. for babies really that's not a thing no did not like even think about the signs that the universe was telling me and then I started to lose my vision and I went to the doctor and he sent me immediately for scans and 45 minutes later he called and said could you come in and basically I said you need to tell me because I'm good at google and all know well and web md is not how you should be getting your diagnoses and that's when he said you have a brain tumor and I sell to you in 15 minutes.

5:28It was the most impactful day of my life, November 4th, 2008. And it was that time that I realized that I was a driver of my own life. I was the passenger rather in my own life and not the driver. And I realized that this was happening for a reason. I didn't know exactly what. I was going to allow it to unfold. I always tell people the most important thing I hope they get is this is an address rehearsal. You know, you don't get multiple chances at this life. so make the most be the driver and so i swore that for whatever time i had left i would live with the three p's which is passion purpose and to be fully present in every moment and uh 16 years later and i still live by those three p's so by the time i got in doctor's office he said i don't know what this is it doesn't look like cancer but you used to see some heavy hitters And it wasn't cancer, but I went Johns Hopkins, Duke, NIH, Sloan Kettering.

6:24And they would say, there's very little we can do. You have about six months. Spend as much time with your children as possible. And I would be like, oh, that's not how this is going down. And what was incredible was I went to my neuroendocrinologist and I asked how this was happening. Nobody in my family had anything like this. And that's when he asked me, you know, he said, well, we're seeing more of these things being tied to the environment. And I was like, I have an organic greenhouse in my backyard. are like, what are you talking about? And that's when he said, you know, yes, you know, what you eat is part of your environment, what you're breathing, the people you surround yourself with.

6:59He said, let me ask you, what do you put on your skin? What did your mother put on her skin when she was pregnant with you? And I was like, oh my gosh. And here it's like the people say, you need to start a line, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, no. And it was in that moment that I realized that's what this is all about. This isn't about products for just children. This is about creating change in an industry that had been largely unchecked for years. And I knew that I wanted to spend the rest of my life educating and empowering others to what they put in and on their body and to create a line that was safe, that was effective, that looked beautiful on the shelf because we both know 2008, 2009, it didn't look like that.

7:39And I walked out of the doctor's office. And I looked at my best friend who was sitting in the waiting room. And I said, I know what this is about. As we're heading to the elevator, she's like, what do you say? What do you say? I'm like, oh, I have to start a skincare line and it's going to be clean. And she's like, no, no, no. What did the doctor say? I was like, he said I need to create a skincare line. And I was off to the races and I haven't stopped. No, I was very fortunate. I found a doctor who's wanting to do surgery. So April 22nd, 2009, I walked into the surgical suite, said today's a great day to live.

8:12And I went to sleep. And eight hours later, I woke up able to see out of my both of my eyes completely. And the doctor said, we got everything. Welcome to your life. I turned on the website two months later.

8:25Kara Goldin:Wow, that's, that's incredible. So was, so what did you start with was how many SKUs did you start with and how did you know what to do at that point? You know, it's so funny. When you're given six months to live, you get very focused with what you're going to do with your time. And so when my children were home, obviously I was with them. But when they were at school, I was talking to every aromatherapist, dermatologist, chemist, naturopathic doctor I could. And I started to read and really research. And I started to concoct, I was a kitchen, I would say kitchen scientist, kitchen chemist. I was literally mixing things in my kitchen.

9:08FYI, nothing is made in my kitchen anymore. I just want everybody who's listening to know we use labs. It is CGMIC compliant. We have all the testing done. But that's how it started, just do your research. So the first product, the coconut citrus scrub is still on our lineup today. And it was one of the first products I ever made. I will say when we started, it was very much kind of handmade farmer's market type, even though I said I was eco chic brand, I was eco eco and it was being sold at farmer's market because I didn't know what I was doing. But it was one product at a time, a lot of body oils that I was able to make in my kitchen, balms and things like that.

9:47And then obviously I was able to work with some of the world-leading chemists. And, you know, slowly but surely the brand evolved into what it is today.

9:57Kara Goldin:So those early days of thinking about your go-to-market strategy, how would you actually sell the product? What was the plan? I mean, did you think, I'm going to go to retailers, I'm going to do direct-to-consumer? Like so many questions. I will say ignorance is bliss because as much as I have this incredible business background I really did not understand retail like think about it I was in entertainment so I was like eyeballs how many subscribers I wasn't thinking about go to market how am I getting into the retailer and so you're gonna laugh I literally said well I'll put a vision board together and that's how it's gonna happen like I just did not think about this I turned on a website my mother and my aunt ordered.

10:44And then I realized, oh, there's something to this. And so I've always believed you need to surround yourself with people who really know what they're doing. So we brought in people who understood sales, marketing, and things like that. But the first thing I did was I worked in a co-op, like a retail co-op, so that I could get retail experience. Seller how learning, what does it mean to sell a product? And I will tell you, that year was so incredible for me, because I really understood that design matters, retailing matters, the marketing speak matters. I knew nothing about this. And so it was really trial by fire.

11:21And what we learned was as we started to get some doors and knocking on store doors, local ones, you know, doing markets, doing like fairs and things, more and more retail, like small boutiques would come to us and say, oh, I love this for, you know, our Christmas or what have you. And then we were introduced to somebody at Henry Bendel's and they were like, oh my gosh, we love the ethos. We love this product line. It's incredibly effective. You're like, let's try it out. So we did some trunk shows. We did incredible. And they said, we love you, but your packaging does not look on brand. You say you're eco-eco and I, you say you're eco-chic and I was so eco-eco, it was unbelievable.

12:04Like what I was saying didn't match what I, what was on counter. And so we rebranded using a designer and the world changed in 2014. We were in boxes, on counter at Henry Bendel's and then the world started calling. Anthropology, Saks, Mercury, it was just one after another. It's really been incredible. I can tell you, every one of those retailers, except for one, but I'm still working on it, I've now been in. Every one on my vision board.

12:41Kara Goldin:I love that. So clean beauty, again, wasn't mainstream back when you were first launching. So what do you think it was about your product? I mean, you were teaching not only these retailers and hoping that they would give you a shot. You didn't come from the industry. But then you also had to educate consumers about this concept, too. Like, how did you do that? You know, I look back on it. I go, how the heck did we get this way? Like, it's so rewarding now to see that clean beauty is not a trend. Like it actually is real. It's now almost like becoming table stakes. And it was really interviews.

13:25It was having press. That was a big area. Like once we rebranded, press was like, oh yeah, I'll photograph this. So it was getting in those magazines back in the time when we were all these magazines on shelf because now I'm dating myself. Remember it was like 2010, 2013. So it was a matter of getting publishers to listen to you and tell your story. to start getting out mass awareness. I'll never get one of the first interviews was The Cut. Christina Hamm interviewed me. Shout out to Christina who gave my little brand a shot. And that started to change the way people were looking. Like, here's this brand that's in this major magazine with a large placement.

14:07Let's read a little more. And so I'd say it was publisher by publisher, article by article, speaking event by speaking event. And it was an organic, slow grow because I didn't have money to put into digital marketing. And I didn't have money to, I mean, the influencer space was just starting to be created. I didn't have like that kind of wherewithal to do those type of things. So it really was, I really joke that we made our first million the hard way, like knocking door by door. I love social media. But social media can be such a gift. And so people started talking about us. and before I knew it, we were a major brand.

14:48Kara Goldin:So how did your health journey shape the way you approach leadership and entrepreneurship and actually going and making this all happen? I would say it's been a roller coaster. I would, you know, at first, obviously, put my health first and really focused in sharing that and putting boundaries around my health. And, you know, okay, what time am I going to stop? Even though, you know, as an entrepreneur, it's a 24-hour, seven-day-a-week thing. And I always say there's no such thing as work-life balance because sometimes I was a mom and sometimes I was an entrepreneur. But I always had to do it under the lens of how I don't want to push my body too far and wind up sick.

15:35What I also started to learn was that my autoimmune journey was just getting started. My brain tumors, they fell into autoimmune. I'd been diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. And I started to realize that this was a much bigger autoimmune journey. I can tell you right now, I have seven autoimmune conditions, including uveitis, rheumatoid arthritis, and Crohn's. So, and those are just three. Oh, and the brain tumors. Let's not forget that. I now have another one. So like I, I'm now on my third brain tumor. And so I always need to look into lens of boundaries. However, when you get private equity involved, etc., I got very involved with the business of the business and putting myself, not necessarily first, and found myself sick again in 2023.

16:23In 22, I started to see some symptoms. And by June of 2024, I was back for two back-to-back brain surgeries. And then in December, because I was pushing myself, because we'd been acquired, and I wanted to prove myself, even though I have the most incredible team at American Exchange. And I'm like, we need you to heal. We need you to heal. That was not what I was used to. It was like, go, go, go. Wound up with meningitis and in the hospital almost parished. So I have learned in the past year that it's okay to ask for help. It's okay to set boundaries. And my husband and I were, I just wrote about this, that I would always say my superpower was asking for help And my husband said, no, your superpower is now asking people how you can help them.

17:09I think you need to start switching yourself again and, you know, being on yourself. I was like, oh, my gosh, he's so right. So it's really played an integral part. And I would say, if anything, Cara, it is refired my passion for healthy living or what I these time days have termed wealth, W-E-L-L-T-H, which for me means the abundance of health and wellness and what that really means. Because as entrepreneurs, as founders, we, especially in a clean living and clean lifestyle space, we may say that we want to do this balance and take care of ourselves, but we automatically go into that entrepreneurial mode and the hustle mode and making it happen.

17:56And oftentimes it's our health that pays the price.

18:01Kara Goldin:Yeah, definitely. I love that you reminded us all of that because I think that stress, it's not just about what you put in your body or put on your body. It's also about the stress and the things around you that you could eliminate, right? And I think that's so, that's so, so important. So the beauty industry is so crowded and you continue to differentiate your mission and really stay true to your mission. And still to this day, as far as I can tell as a consumer, they've stayed true, even though you ultimately sold the company and are not currently running it. Like, how do you get that to happen?

18:54Kara Goldin:Right? I mean, how do you do that? It's kind of unique. I mean, oftentimes when people are wholly acquired, they exit the brand. And I was very fortunate because American Exchange has embraced me and they said, you are the brand. You are who resonates with your consumer. They trust you. And I think the way I keep on top of that is being in the direct messages, is going to event day, is showing up online, live, you know, all those things so I can stay, I hate to say relevant, because it's not about the relevance, it's about staying connected to that loyal consumer base and keeping that emotional connection going and realizing that it's okay for me to be vulnerable, which is another thing that I've learned with the marketing exchange, that it is okay to be vulnerable.

19:45It is okay to say I am not okay. It's okay to say I'm in pain when I'm in pain. I don't have to always be smiles, bright eyes, and optimistic. It's okay. And I think as a result, this past year has built even deeper connections with our consumer base because of this vulnerability. So it's very interesting. It's very different. I find it amazing. This past weekend, I was in direct messages and there was a couple of people who were have been fans of the brand since 2011 and they went on to Facebook because that's how you originally connected back then and direct message me questions like that is amazing that I can still have that connection you know how many years later with fans of our brand who are still purchasing or are going through different transitions in their life and they feel comfortable enough to be vulnerable to share that life, you know, event with me, whatever they're going through.

20:46So I think it's being available is a big piece of it.

20:49Kara Goldin:I love that. I think that that is such a valid point that I feel like especially there's so many brands in all different industries that lead with the founding story and make these connections, I found that I wanted a product that didn't have diet sweeteners in it. And I wanted flavor because I didn't like the taste of plain water. And so when I was sharing my story online, I mean, that was the biggest lift for the product. But then there were also people who started relating to the product, who tried the product and liked the way it tasted, and they never had really thought about diet sweeteners.

21:32Kara Goldin:And they maybe had health issues where they couldn't have sweeteners in their product. And we started having a conversation around how this product that I had created. And I'm sure it's the same for you. I mean, there's some people... Exactly the same. Exactly the same. And that's where that education, that empowerment... And for me, it's never about bashing any other brand, anything like that. It's about just telling our story, explaining why I'm using the ingredients I'm using, why I'm so passionate about this. And being vulnerable back when people share with me, I think that's the biggest part of this.

22:15But I think when you're vulnerable, it opens up, right? You go below the line, as they say, and it opens up this very unique space that people hear things differently and hear the message through a very different lens because of how it's going to impact them. and then they start to realize that they can make healthier choices and they don't have to sacrifice efficacy very similar to hint you're not giving up on the experience you're getting this benefit right but you're not giving up anything and that's how i look at it with indy lee you're going to get all the benefits that you're looking from any other product but there's you're not it's not going to cost you your health definitely so if you could go back and

22:55Kara Goldin:whisper one truth about building a beauty business to your younger self, what would it be? What would that be like, I wish I would have told myself? Oh, my goodness. There are so many. I wish I would have told myself not to give up so much equity. That's one that I learned the hard way. I wish I would have had more faith in myself. I wish I I didn't always look at it like, am I worthy to do this? And that's a story that I think so many people have. And it was prevalent, especially when you get investments or private equity, you start to listen to other people, but you sometimes lose yourself in the process.

23:41And I wish that I would have believed in myself a little bit more and remembered that it was my voice that resonated. because in some cases, I allowed myself to shrink.

23:56Kara Goldin:Yeah, definitely. I think that that's a common theme and amongst many founders who have made that really, really tough decision for sure. Yeah. When you think about a product that you developed, maybe you were so excited personally, you thought it was gonna like really take off, but it didn't really take off. Or maybe there was one that you thought, this is not going to work, but what the heck, let's just give it a try. And it just skyrocketed. Can you share a story about that? Oh my gosh, yes. When you said it, I knew exactly the product. So there is a product called I Recover Mind and Body Gel.

24:41It is a thermogenic gel. So it's like a bougie, I'll call it like a bougie dengue. And it really helps with muscle fatigue. It's got arnica, it's got menthol, it's got eucalyptus. It's just incredible. So I would rub it on my joints, my muscles. I'd use it on my part. This product was like the Holy Grail to me. Before we even launched it, I'm like, I need all the lab samples, especially somebody who has autoimmune issues and has flare-ups and rheumatoid arthritis. I was like, I need all the lab samples because you know, it takes time between when you have it approved and when it goes to market.

25:19And I could not be without my mind and body though. And it launched. Yep. There you go. And it launched. And I was like, how is this not the biggest seller? I was shocked. Now it's so funny because we discontinued it, but we're actually bringing it back. Because what we realized was we didn't market it correctly. We didn't tell the story behind it. We didn't put the marketing dollars and the press and all those things that are necessary for a product success these days in a crowded marketplace. We didn't do those things. And so, but everybody tries it and is like, oh my God, I am obsessed. And then people who can no longer get it goes, where's this product?

26:05It's like the Holy Grail. And so we realized it wasn't the product, it was us and how we marketed it. So I'm really excited now that it should be back next year. And I cannot wait.