766 Sarah Moret: Founder & CEO of Curie

0:00Kara Goldin:I am unwilling to give up, but I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be. You just want to make sure you will get knocked down, but just make sure you don't get knocked out. So your only choice should be, go focus on what you can control. Hi everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin Show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world's greatest leaders. We'll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can't wait to get started. Let's go. Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the Kara Golden Show.

0:44Kara Goldin:Today, I'm thrilled to be joined by Sarah Murray, who is the founder and CEO of Curie, the clean personal care brand, proving that clean can actually work. And Sarah's journey started with a simple frustration. She couldn't find a natural deodorant that kept up with her active lifestyle. So she decided to make her own, starting with$12 ,000 of her own savings. We were just talking about, sold a Bitcoin or two, and she spent over a year perfecting the formula, which would soon become Curie. So what started as a small side hustle quickly became a full-blown business. I can't wait to talk about how she has grown distribution in places like Equinox and SoulCycle and now into Target and Walmart, as well as Amazon and online.

1:44Kara Goldin:This original DTC company also made it to Shark Tank. And I can't wait to hear more about the Barbara Corcoran and Mark Cuban experience. And I really can't wait to talk about what she's seen in growing this company and how hard it really is to actually grow a brand and get to the scale that she has. So the lessons are, I'm sure, enormous. And there's so much that goes on behind the scenes of starting and growing a company that many don't get to talk about. So I cannot wait to hear more from Sarah on this. So thank you for coming on and welcome. Thank you. I'm so excited. What an intro. Very, very excited.

2:35Kara Goldin:So let's start by just defining the brand as you see Curie, and I'd love to hear it from your voice. Yeah. So Curie, which is named after Marie Curie, first female to ever win a Nobel Prize, the only woman to ever win the Nobel Prize in two different sciences. I literally did a book report on her when I was 10 years old and she stuck with me. And when it came time to launch my company, I was like, what better namesake than a woman who broke barriers in a time when women weren't even getting an education? Like this was the 1800s. And she not only became a PhD and renowned scientist that, you know, made discoveries that led to chemotherapy and x-ray machines and all these incredible, incredible discoveries.

3:28But she also built an incredible family. Her daughters went on to win Nobel Prizes themselves. So she just embodied everything that I was building, the woman I was building this company for, which is trailblazers, movers and shakers, and people that are out there building careers, building families, and need products that can keep up. We started with our aluminum-free deodorant. Deodorant is still our bread and butter. We're best known for our stick and spray deodorant. If you're a member at Equinox or SoulCycle, you can find our spray deodorant in the locker rooms there. You can also find our products and shelves across Walmart and Target.

4:06And we also have a whole line of body care products that we're continuing to expand every year. I love it. So what year did you actually start Curie? So we officially launched to the public in 2019, went out with like a proof of concept in 2018 that was essentially, you know, I was just passing out deodorant to anyone who would take it to try to get the product in as many hands as possible. We ended up iterating on our formula several times before we fully launched in 2019.

4:40Kara Goldin:That's, I love it. So$12 ,000. So can you tell us, first of all, people think that, I think some people underestimate what it will cost to grow a brand. I think other people will hear your story and say, that's it. I mean, that's amazing. Maybe I can kind of pull it all together, but can you, what sits in your mind when I say that to you? So I am very aware that, especially in consumer times, things change so quickly. And maybe what was possible in 2018, 2019 would be a lot more difficult today. And I'm very, I acknowledge that and I am aware that it has become harder and harder to build and get a consumer brand off the off the ground.

5:27But at that time, it was so easy to whip up a Shopify website that was, you know, was perfectly capable. We used that Shopify website that I made on a Saturday night for years, and it worked great for us. Our initial packaging, I designed it myself. I took Adobe Illustrator classes on YouTube and whipped up dye lines and slapped them on our deodorant and that was our packaging. So I did every single thing that wasn't manufacturing the product myself and that was how I was able to launch Curie with only$12 ,000 of my savings. So that$12 ,000 went, 100 % of it went into our first production run, I was able to find, and again, this might not be as easy today, but I was able to find a manufacturer that would do a small initial run for us, a small production run.

6:22So we didn't have to put too much into product. We didn't have to put too much into engineering. They provided the formulators. So really just did my homework and found the right manufacturer, the right formulators and did truly everything else myself. We didn't have a marketing team. It was me on social media going on. I was a marathon runner at the time and I would go on long runs and do armpit sniffs throughout my run and posted it on social. We got a great following in those early days and just kind of figured things out. The first two years of running Curie was like an MBA for me. Like it was, I did not have the background in CPG.

7:05I had a finance background. And those first two years were really just me figuring things out, figuring out how it all worked. And that time was really necessary for me to work through the kinks, to make some tweaks to our product and really learn the landscape.

7:24Kara Goldin:I think so many founders, no matter what their background has been or hasn't been, those first couple of years are really eye-opening and you have to be willing to be humbled. Do you have any moments where you sat there and you're like, what in the world am I doing? Of course, so many people probably said to you, what are you doing? I mean, Kara, even my own mother was like, what are you doing? You have this amazing. So I worked as a CPA was in big, at a big four accounting firm for the first few years of my career. Then I worked in venture capital. Um, I was in venture capital for five years.

8:08So had a very, a great job that many people would want. It was very cushy. Uh, and my mom thought I was nuts for starting a deodorant brand of all things, when I had this great career ahead of me. But so yes, people definitely rolled their eyes a bit. I'm sure I had some friends, you know, questioning this decision of mine, but I didn't quit my day job. So I really, my goal was to grow Curie and see if there was a business there, if I could get some customers, if this idea had legs before I really went all in. And I am really grateful I took that path because by the time I quit my job, so Curie was a side hustle for those first two years.

9:01And by the time I quit my job, we had already been generating close to a million dollars in revenue at that point. And I knew that we had product market fit. And so that's my advice to a lot of founders is if you can find a way to start your business and not go all in, there's obviously benefits, but there's also a lot of drawbacks. Like going all in immediately, it just puts a level of pressure on your business where you're maybe not making the best decisions for the customer. You might be making, you know, oh, we have to generate revenue. So the product is good enough. Like, let's just sell it.

9:40or, you know, making decisions that aren't in the best interest of the customer because you are under pressure because you quit your job. And so for me, it was it gave me this freedom to be creative, to take my time to say, you know what? Our product's not quite good enough. Like we're going to keep going. You know what? I don't love our scent. Like we're going to we're going to come up with an entirely new one because I didn't have investors breathing down my neck. I didn't have anyone else to report to aside from, you know, making my customers happy. And so it was a it was a tough path. Definitely requires a lot of there were a lot of issues in those early days.

10:22There was a lot of figuring things out the hard way in those early days. But I do think that the path that I took, even though it's the harder path, was the right one because it got us to a place where it still is core to the DNA. of Curie is our customers are who we report to. Like all we care about is what our customers think of us and our product and nobody else. We do not to this day have a board of directors. We do not have, you know, anyone that's pressuring us to do anything that isn't at the best interest of our customers. And I'm really proud of the way that I've stayed true to that over the last, six and a half years.

11:04Kara Goldin:I think that's such an interesting point. So we've had people who have been former private equity or venture, and then they decide to launch their dream. And they've said exactly the same thing. What do you think you didn't realize, I guess, coming into running a brand and also being a first-time CEO, right? That you didn't see on that side of the fence that you now see? I mean, it sounds like you, you know, understood that margins are important. Yeah, I knew all the finance stuff. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think I understood the finance, like, I understood margin from the beginning. Like, I understood how to build a good P &L and to generate profit and all of that.

11:58But I think what I didn't have the background in and didn't really understand was the sales and marketing piece, which is so important when you're selling a product, especially a product online that deodorant, the scent matters so much. And you want to feel the product, you want to use the product. So having to sell a product like that online was inherently challenging. And I didn't have that background in sales and marketing. And I think when I started, I don't think I understood how challenging that is, especially as CPG and D2C just heated up so quickly during that 2017, 2018, 2019 timeframe.

12:45It started to get more challenging. CPMs on meta got higher. There was just more competition. And I didn't have the chops and I didn't have the cash to bring on an incredible marketer. And so I kind of had to learn that as I went. And those first few years, like I said, were my MBA. Those first few years were figuring out how do I sell? How do I talk about our products? How do I photograph deodorant? How do I get influencers talking about our deodorant that feels natural and not cringy? And QVC actually was a huge catalyst for I got on to QVC in 2021. I just auditioned and got on and they put me on Saturday morning Q, which is like one of the more coveted slots on QVC programming because a lot of younger demographic watches it.

13:40And they put me on Saturday morning Q, gave me 10 minutes and we sold out within seven. And it was like the most exhilarating experience of my life. But it was also a huge learning. I went on QVC, I think 30 times that year in 2021. And what QVC taught me was how to sell and how to market and talk about our product in a different way than I'd ever been doing before. I think the instinct for new founders and especially people without that marketing background is to talk about the attributes of their product. So, you know, it's aluminum free, it's paraben free, cruelty free, yada, yada, yada. These ingredients are in it.

14:16These ingredients aren't in it. And what QVC taught me through the training and through just going live and having a producer in your ear telling you what's working and what's not was that the customer doesn't really care that much about the attributes. All they care about is how they're going to impact them. How are they going to solve their problems? It's not enough to just stop at it's aluminum free. You have to keep going and say aluminum free, meaning, you know, or talking about clean ingredients. Like they don't care about the clean ingredients. They care about what is your deodorant going to do for them?

14:50How is this going to make them feel more confident? How is this going to, you know, stop their sweating problem and their pit stains that embarrass them? And that was such an unlock that I really didn't understand before. And that helped just catapult us to the next level, learning how to talk about our products and talk to our customer in that way.

15:09Kara Goldin:it's so interesting because i think what you're also touching on is storytelling right and being able to you know i think so so often people don't they want to launch a product they want to be an entrepreneur they want to be a founder but uh the the ones that i mean you're also the face the voice of the brand as well, right? And being able to stay close to consumers and is obviously, you know, what ends up selling more product. But I think that that is so interesting. I mean, did you know anybody at QVC or did it just kind of come, they just reached out to you cold? They had this competition. I don't know if they still do it.

15:56It's called the Big Find. And they invite small businesses to come fly out and pitch. And it's a kind of a competition and the winner gets to go on air. And so I got to go on. They, you know, placed a small PO and kind of used it as a test. And we did really, really well and continued to sell on QVC for a year and a half after that. And that really just broadened our audience. QVC is truly nationwide. We were tapping into a demographic that we weren't already tapping into. and like I said with live TV, I have a producer in my ear saying, I'll be talking about the fragrances and they'll be like, keep going, keep going, talk about the fragrances more, talk about the fragrances, move on, move on, like onto the next thing.

16:44They are looking at the data, which is sales and telling you what's working and what's not so that you can pivot and wow, like what powerful information for a early stage founder to have knowing real time what you're saying is having an impact on your sales and what is not. And I took all that information and used that for our ads, to improve our Facebook ads, to improve our website, to improve our packaging copy. And it really taught me that the art of storytelling. As a consumer, you're just pummeled with information and facts all the time. and everybody is just looking for a story. They want to know the history of the product.

17:32They want to know who's behind it. And they want to know, like I said, what's it going to do for them? How is it going to solve their problem? So I think that was a huge pivotal moment for us and really set me up for a successful Shark Tank airing.

17:46Kara Goldin:Yeah, definitely. Well, we'll get to Shark Tank in a minute, but I'd love for you to walk through what goes into formulating a non-toxic product that truly performs. Because often we see the success in the front end of the product, but I know how hard it is to do that in many industries. But it's something that I think often people are, founders are so proud of, but they don't get a chance to really talk about that aspect of it. But what goes into formulating a non-toxic product like Curie? Yeah. So it's lots and lots and lots of iterations. Like we have never stopped. We're still working on our formula today.

18:35We're constantly, you know, have taken the mentality of we're never done. And I will continue to take customer feedback, to read reviews. I'm always looking at our reviews and what our customers are saying about our product and finding new ingredients, novel new ingredients that come out and trying to make sure that we have the best product on the market. And I will not stop until we're, we are, you know, it's, it's a never done mentality that's brought us this far in a category that's only gotten more competitive. So I think having that mentality of never being done, of always looking around the corner and thinking about how we can make improvements to our products, how we can offer new cool signature fragrances that are going to get our customers excited.

19:24I think that's one element. And then having really talented people. I'm not a chemist. I didn't make our product myself in my kitchen. I trust, I appreciate science. Like that's why I named the company after Marie Curie. Like I trust the formulators that have a background in chemistry to really create the product that's the magic of bringing all the right ingredients together at the right levels. And that's what makes, that's the difference between an aluminum-free deodorant that works and that doesn't work is all those tweaks that we've made along the way to get the pH right, to get the right balance of ingredients, to get the texture right, make sure it's not leaving white stains on clothing.

20:12And it's what's really got us here and helped us build a sustained business, even in a competitive category.

20:20Kara Goldin:So you've talked about fragrance being a loophole for harmful ingredients. Can you share a little bit more on that? Yes. Oh, my gosh. We could film a whole podcast on this topic. But for anyone who's listening that isn't aware, the FDA actually doesn't govern personal care products. So products that go on your skin are not governed by the FDA, much looser guidelines than food, for example, and much looser guidelines than the EU and other countries when it comes to personal care. So it really puts a lot of responsibility on the customer to pay attention to what ingredients they're using on their skin.

20:57And one of the issues in this country is the term fragrance can be used on packaging where you don't have to disclose what is the ingredients that is in the fragrance. And so there's brands out there, this has been done historically and it's still being done today, that can put ingredients in there that a customer would never want in their deodorant. They can put ingredients in there that if you read that ingredient list, you'd be horrified to see it. And they can hide it under this term fragrance. And so this has been going on and it's protected. The idea is to protect trade secrets. So if a brand has a formula for their fragrance they don't want to share, they can hide the ingredients with this term fragrance.

21:46And so there's all these ingredients that we don't want to be using on our skin, these toxic ingredients, especially when it comes to deodorant. You're using it on your underarms, which is close to your lymph nodes and your breast tissue. And it's it's I think consumers seem to be smartening up about this. And it's something we've been really vocal about. We put all of our fragrance ingredients on our website and explain the origin of them, why they're there, what they're doing in our fragrances. And we really encourage other brands to follow suit because I think that transparency matters. We want to give our customers the ability to make a choice with what they're comfortable with.

22:29And you can't make that choice if you're not being told the whole truth.

22:32Kara Goldin:Yeah, absolutely. So what do you use for the fragrances that people are smelling? So with all of our formulas, all of our fragrances, we use clean ingredients. And so clean is another term that can be a little bit ambiguous. We have a whole page on our website where we define what clean means to us. What clean means to Curie is safe for you and safe for the environment. So we're not using any known underpin disruptors, any cancer-causing ingredients, any ingredients that are going to accumulate in the ocean since personal care products usually end up going down your drain when you shower. It's really important to be looking at the impact on you as a human and also the environmental impact of the ingredients we're using.

23:17We are okay with using synthetic ingredients or lab-made ingredients as long as they've been tested for safety and efficacy. So for example, triethyl citrate is one of the ingredients we use in our deodorant. It's really a really powerful ingredient, but it's a synthetic ingredient. It's made in a lab. We're okay with that. Our customers are okay with that as long as it's not causing harm. And so that applies to our product formulations and also to our fragrances. So we will use essential oils, for example, in our fragrances if we can. But for some fragrances, you know, when it comes to citrus, for example, that can be really irritating, especially if you shave your underarms.

24:02to be applying a citrus essential oil can cause breakouts. It can cause irritations, rashes. So in cases like that, we will use synthetic alternatives, again, as long as they're tested for safety and efficacy. So that's where we stand.

24:17Kara Goldin:So pH levels affect how well a deodorant or personal care, any personal care products work. So can you talk about that? and like maybe somebody has tried a deodorant out there, a natural deodorant, a clean deodorant, and it hasn't worked. Sometimes it's not a product. It's actually the individual, right? Yes, you totally understand this, Cara. But when it comes to deodorant, it's the same as any personal care product, whether it's shampoo and conditioner or a face cream. What works for one person might not work for everybody because all of our body chemistries are different. So I always start with that.

25:07What works on my hair might not work on yours because our body chemistries are different. Our hair texture is different. And the same is true for deodorant. So I think that's important to acknowledge. What works for one person might not work for all. And it really comes down to our body chemistry and the pH of our skin and most importantly, the pH of our sweat. So baking soda is a common ingredient in aluminum-free deodorants, just as an example. Baking soda is very effective at neutralizing odor, but it is a very basic ingredient. And so if you mix a heavy load of a basic ingredient with something very acidic, which some people, especially women, tend to have more acidic sweat, that's what can cause a reaction.

25:53So we hear from a lot of customers, like, I can't use baking soda. I can't use, you know, baking soda causes rashes and irritation, which FYI, if you're listening to this and you've used aluminum-free deodorant and gotten a rash, nine times out of 10, it's because of baking soda. And a lot of formulas out there have way too much baking soda in them. So you need to keep that, knowing that baking soda is going to make the deodorant more basic. We try to limit the baking soda as much as possible. With our spray deodorant, we don't even use baking soda because it can cause issues when it comes to mixing with acidic sweat.

26:33So that's like the main pH issue we see. But there can also be pH issues with your skin that can throw off your skin microbiome and the amount of bacteria that can accumulate. So there's different issues that different people face. But the thing we see the most with women specifically, and 80 % of our customers are women, is at different points throughout their cycle, their skin and their sweat becoming more acidic and it can cause irritation. So we make sure to address that and use the smallest load of baking soda that we possibly can in our formula.