780 Dr. Amy Wechsler and Zoe Wechsler: Co-Founders of Spotless

0:00I am unwilling to give up, but I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be.

0:09Kara Goldin:You just want to make sure you will get knocked down, but just make sure you don't get knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control. Hi everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin Show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world's greatest leaders. We'll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can't wait to get started. Let's go. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Kara Golden Show. I am so excited to have my next team here, team co-founders who are a mother and daughter duo shaking up the skincare world.

0:56Kara Goldin:Dr. Amy Wexler and her daughter Zoe Wexler are the co-founders of an incredible new brand called Spotless. And you may have heard all about Spotless. It's taking the world by storm. They have been all over media over the last few weeks. And I am not surprised because it is such an incredible, innovative company and not a brand new idea, but it's like one of those ones where you sit there and say, duh, why didn't somebody do this sooner? So first ever walk-in acne-only clinic. And Dr. Amy, in case you are not familiar with Dr. Amy Wexler, is one of the few physicians in the country, board certified in both dermatology and psychiatry.

1:44Kara Goldin:Her expertise is unmatched. And her daughter Zoe is her teammate in this and brings a fresh cultural perspective and is helping reimagine what compassionate modern acne skincare can look like. And together, they've created something fantastic in New York City first. But I think you're going to see many, many spotlesses across the country in no time. So I can't wait to get into how they are building spotless from the ground up and the gap they see in traditional dermatology. And Amy and Zoe, Welcome to The Cara Golden Show. So excited you guys are here today. Really, really excited. Thank you so much for having us.

2:30Kara Goldin:Thank you. We're so excited. So I've known Amy for a while and full disclosure, had not met Zoe before, but I said when she came on, I was super, super excited to finally meet her. And the idea is absolutely brilliant. So So Zoe, do you want to talk to us about Spotless and what makes it different from a traditional dermatology clinic? Yes, I would love to. So Spotless is a walk-in and by appointment acne clinic here in New York on the upper side. You can walk in, or make an appointment, whatever it's better for you. We only offer four services. So we offer three treatments and consultations. We offer acne pimple shots.

3:12We offer acne peels. We offer extractions and then a consultation. So really simple menu. just the really good acne treatments that actually work. Also, what that does aside is that we're open nights and weekends as well as early mornings.

3:27Kara Goldin:So what gap did you see then? Amy, you have been a dermatologist for many, many years. Maybe you want to talk to us a little bit about your background and share a little bit about what you saw in the space that made you feel like this is absolutely needed outside of the fact that probably many of your patients were calling saying, can you help me or can you help my family in some way? Exactly. So as you know, I've been in private practice for over 20 years in New York. It is still a privilege to take care of people for a living. It's been awesome. And I've moved my office a few times, but always been in Manhattan.

4:10And I've always been ambitious and wanted to do more. And so in 2008, wrote my book, which is called The Mind Beauty Connection. And I've been on TV a bunch. I like to do interviews. I just like to get the word out. I've also been on the board of public company, Bausch Health, since 2016. I've been working with Chanel as their skincare advisor for 15 years, which is wild. and early in the pandemic Zoe and I had a podcast that was more of a passion project than anything else but we loved working together and I like to joke around that I couldn't convince Zoe or Jaden to go to medical school so I went to business school and got my MBA last year at Columbia with the hopes of trying to figure out how to scale something related to dermatology I wasn't clear what I wanted to do when I went back in 22.

5:04And during school, I kept getting texts and emails from patients nights and weekends. Hey, Dr. Amy, I've got this giant pimple. Any chance you can come into the office to give me a pimple shot? I've got my wedding. I've got a friend's wedding. I've got an interview, a date, whatever it was. And a lot of the times I couldn't come because it would be after hours or on the weekends. When I could, I would. And one time I went, And then I saw Zoe after and she said, mom, what are you up to? Where'd you go? And I said, told her what I had to do. And she's like, we should just have like a pimple shot pop-up bar.

5:39You know, that would be really popular. And I was like, oh my God, that's a great idea. And then we started just riffing about what could we do around that? And we decided, well, I think I can scale like the acne part of my business and try to hit all the pain points. Like why can't someone come see me in the office? There aren't that many dermatologists in the country. We have long wait lists often. We're only open typically Monday to Friday, nine to five, and we're pretty expensive. And if we take insurance and we're in your insurance, you'll have to wait six months at least to see us. And some patients and people with acne in particular are embarrassed to go to the doctor or they feel intimidated to go to the doctor's office.

6:24And I try to make my office as welcoming as possible, but just walking in the door can feel daunting to people. So we decided we would be open nights and weekends. We would make the spot, each spot, that's what we're calling each spotless spot or clinic, welcoming a cool place that's exuding expertise, but also there's a casualness to it. There's colors, there's music, there's chocolate, you know, because we want to also just try to dispel all these myths about acne, which one of which is that chocolate causes acne because it doesn't, which is good. And make the barrier to entry really low for people.

7:06Make it efficient because so many patients with acne, if they're in school, they're in school till late. They've got practice, rehearsal. If they're a young person working, they're kind of low on the totem pole and they're not allowed to leave when we're open. So you see people walking around with faces full of acne all the time and thinking like, that's treatable. Why is anyone still having acne these days?

7:27Kara Goldin:So interesting. So the hours that you're open, again, you just have the first location that's open. But so what are the hours that you're open? So on Mondays and Wednesdays, we're open from 8 to 8. Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, we're open 10 to 8. And on Saturdays, 10 to 6. That's great. So we did some focus groups this summer. At first, we thought every day we'd open at 10. And then we did focus groups this summer with people of all ages and a lot of feedback with especially from people my age. They would want to come before work. So we decided let's start two days a week. We're going to open at eight and we'll see what happens and we'll take it from there.

8:05So we're using our first bot I think of as a lab. We're going to learn so much. We've only been open five and three weeks.

8:12Kara Goldin:Yeah, that's so great. I think it's really smart. And especially because those are the times people get home from school or work or, you know, they want to jump in before they go to work or before they, I bet those are kind of your busiest times. And as you mentioned, it's also a, it's a, you could make an appointment or it's walk-in, which is like feeds into the, I need it right now fix, which is huge. So what has been the most surprising thing that has come up along the way, maybe from consumers or patients, I guess, that are coming in? My most surprising, and we've only been open, again, not even three weeks, is people traveling to see us.

8:57On our first Saturday open, which was our third day of business, we had a family come in from Westchester and a family come in from Brooklyn. It's not that easy to get to us from either of those places. And we didn't realize we were going to be a destination, but we're quickly realizing that we are. And since then, we've had mothers and their sons or young people or anybody coming from almost all boroughs already. And at least now two families driven from Westchester to see us. So that's been a huge difference. I thought everyone was like, oh, are you living in the neighborhood? They're like, no, I live in the West Village.

9:27No, I live in Tribeca. People are coming to see us, even if it's not on their way directly.

9:33Kara Goldin:So somebody comes into your clinic. And what's kind of the first thing that happens when they come in? So we care so much about hospitality and customer service. So we want it to be from the moment someone walks in to the moment they leave to feel really well cared for. So we welcome everyone with a big smile. We offer a water. We've got chocolate. We've got a nice bathroom that's always clean. Comfortable seating, chargers, Wi-Fi, all of that. And if someone is walking in, they do have to fill out some forms on an iPad. We're still streamlining that, but it's pretty good now. got a lot of feedback about just doing that.

10:12So we're paperless. If they've booked online, then they could just be all set to go. And then we have nurse practitioners and a physician's assistant as our clinicians. They've all trained with me in my office for a few months and my way of treating acne. And they're brought back into, I suppose we're still calling them exam rooms, but they're not classic exam rooms. They're not four wall, white, you know, sharp edges. We care a lot about the feeling and the experience. And so we thought, let's round things out. So we've made round walls, but not walls. So we've got drapes instead of doors. They absorb some of the sound and when we get our better runs, it'll be even better.

10:56But it's private on the inside, but not sealed. We ordered comfortable exam chairs that are not white, they're blue. Our stools for the nurse practitioner are purple. And one of the things that's really important is that I'm having each of the clinicians sit with each patient. No matter if they're only there for five minutes or just want a pimple shot, you're getting to know someone for the first time, you sit with them, which just tells the patient, I'm not rushing you. I'm here to listen. And we just ask open-ended questions. How can we help? You know, whatever or whatever in the clinician's words.

11:32And we take it from there. Yes. The patient experiences are one of our number one key values of Spotless is patient first, patient experience. So that comes through in everything we do.

11:45Kara Goldin:That's awesome. So you're focused exclusively on acne. And oftentimes people are, you know, coming in to fix something quickly, but maybe in some cases it's more general, you know, skincare. But what do you do at that point if somebody needs more than just their acne handled? If they want to review their skincare products, we do that with them. Their cleanser, their moisturizer, serums, all of that. Sunscreen, we're happy to do that. And also we're selling curated products in the front of the spot, which is our spot shop, until we have the products that we're making on our own come out next year.

12:27And everything's non-comedogenic, meaning won't clog anyone's pores or cause pimples. Everything's fragrance-free. And we've got some adjacent products like these cool neato stress cubes that people really like to squeeze instead of hopefully picking out their skin, things like that. But if someone has an issue or problem that is not acne, like eczema, for example, or a mole they might be worried about, we are referring to local dermatologists. We have some who take insurance. We have some who don't.

12:58Kara Goldin:So many people, you had mentioned chocolate. So many people think that, especially with the internet, they've got it all under control. They've figured it out exactly what it is that is causing this acne. How often are they right? I guess is the key thing. I mean, obviously, you've got chocolate in the office. You're like, it's not chocolate. But what is it typically that people are, that's causing this type of acne? Is it, you know, hormones? Is it cleanliness, a little bit of all? What is it? Acne is usually multifactorial in origin. So it's a combination of genetics, hormones, and stress for the most part.

13:43And then yes, certain products can make acne worse. Certain medications can make acne worse. And then things like pads for football pads or a hockey helmet, things like that definitely can make acne worse. So we take a thorough history. We ask family history of acne. For women and girls, we ask about their periods because irregular periods and certain birth control can make acne better. Certain birth control can make acne worse. So it's usually not just one thing. And what often happens is that people know themselves. So I always tell patients, like, listen to yourself, listen to your body. But things get blamed for acne because we can see them.

14:25So if someone comes in and they're like, you know, I was really stressed out. I wasn't sleeping that much. And then I was eating all these unhealthful foods. And so I think it's the food. And I think you can see the food, right? You can't see the stress. You can't see the lack of sleep. And it's usually the stress and lack of sleep that makes someone crave those foods. So I usually say like true, true and unrelated. It's probably more the stress and the lack of sleep because we know we heal in our sleep. And during sleep, the molecules that are anti-inflammatory, like beta endorphins and growth hormones are at their highest.

15:01And the stress molecule, especially cortisol, which is the worst, is at its lowest. And so cortisol really, we know, causes or makes acne a lot worse. I saw someone today, a patient who's waiting to hear early decision from college, and she's having a very stressful semester. She just had exams. And she just broke out a couple weeks ago and had been pretty clear. And so we talked about, she used to have acne, about the impact of stress. And one of the first studies to show that stress caused acne was from University of Michigan, where they hired grad students to count pimples in undergrads. Imagine that's your job.

15:37And pimple counts during midterms and finals were like two to four times as high as during the other parts of the semester. That was a long time ago, that study.

15:47Kara Goldin:So interesting. I've heard birth control, too, and especially if you're on birth control and during that week when you don't actually take birth control. I've heard a lot of people say that that typically is a time when acne comes up. Have you heard that before? So combination estrogen and progesterone, birth control pills, are often amazing at helping acne in girls and women. In fact, they're FDA approved for the treatment of acne. And that placebo week of four to seven days can definitely be a time when people break out more. So if that's the case, you can actually skip it and go on to your next pack of pills, you know, with gynecologist approval.

16:28They usually say yes, and that can often avoid it. But birth control pill is really excellent for treating acne, Whereas sometimes a hormonal IUD, the one they secrete only progesterone, can make hormonal acne worse. So it's really very individualized.

16:44Kara Goldin:So interesting. So Spotless is built for teens, young adults, adults. Who is your core customer? Spotless is for anybody with acne. And we really, really try to make anybody who has acne feel like they belong at Spotless. that is that's definitely true but i think neighborhood wise you know on the upper east side there are a lot of schools there are a lot of young families i grew up on the upper east side so in our neighborhood we're we're seeing that demographic a lot i think neighborhood dependent we'll see different demos but yeah that's true but also we're getting the moms who are breaking out as well so we've we're sort of marketing at the beginning to 13 to 29 year olds knowing we'll a little bit younger, but also wanting to capture the perimenopausal women, the women who are 35 to 55 were coming into my office saying, Hey, I've got pimples and wrinkles.

17:43I feel way too old for my pimples and way too young for my wrinkles help. And so it's really common. But you know, we like to joke around that my dad who's 82 is still on a very low dose once a week of Accutane, which keeps them from breaking out. So we're open to anyone with acne, of course.

18:03Kara Goldin:What have you seen as an ingredient in some of the products that are out there that tends to clog skin? Because I know shampoos and conditioners as well as cleansers. Is there some ingredient in particular that you're just not very excited about that you wish was actually not in these products? What's important in a product, so for me, it's not just one, I really don't like this one molecule. It's often the concentration of that molecule. So certain oils, certain ingredients like hyaluronic acid, which is a really nice moisturizing ingredient naturally found in the skin and joints. A lot of young people are using HA as a serum.

18:46First of all, they don't need it. Their skin is so plump. They do not need that. And also, if a product does not say non-comedogenic in the U.S., that means it wasn't tested, even if it's a face product. Like, I wish all face products had to be tested for that, but they don't. So if it doesn't say non-comedogenic, it can break you out. And I'll often see that in makeup or in moisturizers. Cleansers just stay on for such a short period of time, usually fine. Similarly with shampoo and conditioner, as long as someone's actually rinsing it off properly because sometimes there's a residue on the hairline and that can that can clog course but there isn't just one thing well i know you don't like aloe i don't like aloe but i don't like i don't people think it's soothing but in fact quite irritating it can be irritating now people only come to me with problems right so i'll see someone after they've smeared on something with aloe to soothe something and it made them worse so yeah not for acne but not not my favorite ingredient.

19:45Yeah. We see it in a lot of moisturizers. Yes. And then also certain fragrances are really irritating to people. So if someone uses a product and it irritates them, they could also then, their breakout can be worse because any irritation or inflammation can worsen acne.

20:01Kara Goldin:So what is, if somebody walks in, how do you charge people for your clinic? So we have initial consultation fee, which is$250. Everything else is$100. So pimple shots, acne chemical peels, and extractions are$100. And follow-up appointments to the consultation are$100. We also offer packages. So you can buy a three-pack, a five-pack, or a 10-pack with 10, 15, and 20 % discounts associated with each one of those. and the good news about the packages is that they don't expire for two years. You could actually share one with a friend. I love it. If you don't need it or the friend wants to try spot.

20:42If we clear you up so quickly, you only use eight of your 10 pack, you can give them away.

20:47Kara Goldin:You could have the airline model where you've got the family on the app, right? You actually had a family who two of the children, we put them on Accutane and so they bought two 10 packs, but they're actually just going to share them. instead. I love it. Are people typically making appointments or are they typically walking in? We've seen a real 50-50 split. Not what we expected at all, but it's been really interesting collecting that data because we expected mostly walk-ins and it's totally split. And a lot of people do book the day before or the morning of, or they'll call and say, can I make an appointment for an hour?

21:26And we'll say, you actually, you're more than welcome to, you can just come in an hour. And they're like, oh, okay. Like, but you'll save my spot. I'm like, there's a spot for you. There's a spot for a walk-in. It's like, come on in. And they're like, oh, okay. Just because you're not used to that model.

21:40Kara Goldin:So Zoe, you've shaped much of the brand's look and feel. What was the most important aspect in creating the space that you wanted to make sure was present? The most important one is gender neutrality. Because if we say we're for everybody with acne then everybody everybody with acne has to feel like it belongs and luckily for me i have a younger very macho sporty brother so i would just run everything by him and be like hey would you go to a place that looked like this or would you would this font like bother you like really just those basic questions helped a lot and also we spoke about a little bit earlier towing the line between excellence and kind of a youthful more less sterile feel so really towing that line was was one of the most important things also.