817 Vy Nguyen: Co-CEO of Avocado Green Brands

0:00I am unwilling to give up, but I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be. You just want to make sure you will get knocked down, but just make sure you don't get knocked out. So your only choice should be, go focus on what you can control. Hi everyone and welcome to the Kara Golden Show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world's greatest leaders. We'll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can't wait to get started. it. Let's go. Support for today's episode comes from Square, the platform behind so many of the businesses we rely on every day.

0:49When you've run a company, you notice the details, the places that just run better. The checkout is seamless. The experience feels thoughtful. Everything just works. More often than not, that's Square in the background, helping business owners stay focused on what really matters. It's not just a payment swipe or tap. It's one connected system that helps business owners take payments, manage inventory, run payroll, send invoices, and track everything in one place. Hardware that works in person and on the go. Software to manage staff and customers and even banking tools like square checking so sellers can get paid faster.

1:31One of my go-to spots here in the Bay Area is Equator Coffee. They use Square, and you can feel the difference as a customer. Checkout is fast, receipts land right in your inbox, and sometimes I even earn loyalty points. Businesses that use Square just feel more put together, and I love that. And the best part? Square grows with you, whether you're running a one-person pop-up or expanding to multiple locations. It scales alongside your ambition. No contracts, no hidden fees, no complicated setup, just tools designed for how people actually run their businesses. If you're starting a business or running one that deserves better tools, Square helps you sell, manage, and grow without slowing down.

2:17Right now, you can get up to$200 off Square hardware at square.com slash go slash Kara Golden. That's S-Q-U-A-R-E dot com slash G-O slash Kara Golden. Run your business smarter with Square. Go check it out and let Square help you do what you do best. Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the Kara Golden Show. Today, I am joined by an incredible entrepreneur, V. Nguyen, who is the co-CEO of an incredible brand called Avocado Green Brands, actually had also launched previously Brentwood Home, which is going extremely strong as well. The two companies merged and V is the co-CEO now of the holding company known as Avocado Green Brands, one of the most recognized names in organic, non-toxic mattresses, bedding, and sustainable home goods.

3:20If you have gone to any upscale mall lately, you may have seen Avocado. Let me tell you, the mattresses are to die for. You get much better night's sleep on them. They are so amazing and made such a difference in my sleep. So I am so excited to learn a lot more about what is behind this brand. But it was built with a bold vision to create products that are better for people and better for the planet without compromising on quality craftsmanship or growth. And V's leadership with the company has scaled into a nationally recognized brand. As I mentioned earlier, V originally launched Brentwood Home in 2010.

4:05And in 2018, Avocado merged with Brentwood Home. So building a unified platform centered on wellness, sustainability, and operational excellence. I cannot wait to hear more about how V is building this incredible, better-for-you mattress brand in a space that is not necessarily known for brands and certainly not for wellness and sustainable brands. So very, very excited to meet the man leading this. So very, very, very excited. So V, welcome to the Carol Golden Show. Hi, thank you. Thank you for having me. That was quite the introduction. Support for today's episode comes from Square, the platform behind so many of the businesses we rely on every day.

4:58When you've run a company, you notice the details, the places that just run better. The checkout is seamless. The experience feels thoughtful. Everything just works. More often than not, that's Square in the background, helping business owners stay focused on what really matters. It's not just a payment swipe or tap. It's one connected system that helps business owners take payments, manage inventory, run payroll, send invoices, and track everything in one place. Hardware that works in person and on the go. Software to manage staff and customers, and even banking tools like Square checking so sellers can get paid faster.

5:40One of my go-to spots here in the Bay Area is Equator Coffee. They use Square and you can feel the difference as a customer. Checkout is fast, receipts land right in your inbox, and sometimes I even earn loyalty points. Businesses that use Square just feel more put together and I love that. And the best part, Square grows with you. whether you're running a one-person pop-up or expanding to multiple locations. It scales alongside your ambition. No contracts, no hidden fees, no complicated setup, just tools designed for how people actually run their businesses. If you're starting a business or running one that deserves better tools, Square helps you sell, manage, and grow without slowing down.

6:26Right now, you can get up to$200 off Square hardware at square.com slash go slash Kara Golden. That's S-Q-U-A-R-E dot com slash G-O slash Kara Golden. Run your business smarter with Square. Go check it out and let Square help you do what you do best. Hope I can live up to part of it. I love it. Well, let's start with the brand Avocado, since maybe people have seen that in maybe the local mall they've gone to. Maybe they've heard a friend talk about the Avocado mattresses and everything that is so amazing about them. But how do you define the mission and the vision behind the Avocado Green brands?

7:19Yeah, I mean, we really set out to build a product and a company that was really mission-driven from the get-go. You know, we're B Corp certified. One percent of our mattress sales go back to charity for one percent for the planet. And, you know, I think more importantly, we set out to build a product using all natural materials. And in the bedding industry, that's not the easiest thing to do. And so it took some time to really help the supply chain develop the kind of components we need. In the mattress industry, there's also a flame retardant law that you have to pass. And for a long time, you know, most factories really resorted to finding economic options for that.

8:03And a lot of times it turned out to be a sort of chemical fiber barrier type material that they would wrap the inside of the mattress in. And, you know, we set to try to find something very natural and organic. And that led us to using all 100 % natural wool. And there was really not a well-developed supply chain for that. So we spent a lot of effort and energy developing that. We use only latex, organic certified latex for our mattresses. We don't use any foam in there. All of our covers are 100 % cotton on top. So all materials that really provide sort of natural breathability, natural temperature regulation.

8:40and, you know, meanwhile, providing a really solid sort of support and a very durable product. So we didn't set out to try to build the cheapest, you know, mattress out there. We really set out to build something that can last a long time and something that people can be sort of proud of buying and feel good and healthy on. So, as I mentioned, you had started Brentwood Home, which is still going very, very well. What's the difference between Brentwood Home and Avocado Green? Sure, very good question. Yeah, when we initially launched Brentwood Home, it was really sort of on the same premise, but it was really, you know, California lifestyle driven, sort of wellness driven.

9:26But it just wasn't as, I would say, extreme in terms of the type of components and materials we were going after. I think even when we started that, it was maybe four or five years before avocado. The types of materials that were available at market weren't fully there yet. And so I think it was just a stepping stone into what avocado became. And it was just a precursor to that. And what happened when avocado got started was it was much more focused from the get-go on let's only use natural materials. and not compromise on that. And if we can't find it, let's work with someone to develop it. And so I think that's where the real focus on the material part of it and the supply chain part of it really drove us to really creating something really unique with Avocado.

10:23So somebody's going in to purchase a new mattress. What do you hear today as the most important thing that consumers are looking for? I mean, I would imagine comfort is key, but everything that you're doing around sustainable and knowing what they're sleeping on, I guess, too, would probably be so key. Yeah, no, I think what we hear is, you know, comfort's obviously top of the list, sort of durability. There is temperature regulation. A lot of people tend to sleep hot. And there's obviously knowing that it's safe and non-toxic. and we start from the premise, let's only use natural organic materials.

11:07That leads to a product that is safe and non-toxic and because we're choosing the best, highest grade natural materials, it leads to natural cooling, natural temperature regulating product and all that leads to just a very great, durable, comfortable product. So we start from the premise of how do we build it from nature and then it checks all the boxes along the way because everything the consumer is asking for exists out there. It's just over the span of time, the industry has tried to figure out ways to mimic what nature has, but how do we do it sort of cheaper, faster, and take those sort of compromises.

11:46And we sort of took it back to like, let's not make those compromises and find and source the best materials we can do. So when you brought the two brands together, you and I were briefly talking about this before we hit record. So how did that all come about? And did you have plans to actually do something like that to create a larger company? Or how did, like for anybody thinking about maybe they've got a company and should they actually go and merge with the company, acquire, sell? Yeah. How did that all come about? No, great question. So the original team that was ideating on starting Avocado came to us.

12:34They had much more of a sort of storytelling marketing background, not background in sort of production mattress industry experience. So they sort of, through talking to different people in the industry, found us as sort of the quality producer that they could work with. And so when they first approached us, it was, you know, how do we, we want to create a mattress that's using natural materials. We, you know, it's going to be called avocado. And so they sort of tasked us like, let's, can you help us make this product? And sort of, we took that as a, you know, as a test to see what we could do.

13:10We spent, you know, close to a year sort of prototyping, making samples, really crafting the product to the point where they were happy with it. We were happy with it and we could really bring it to market. And it was early 2017, I think, is when the first unit sort of rolled off the production line. They took it to market. Within about a year's time, we could just see the trajectory of the product, of the brand, really, I think, capturing the imagination of the consumer. It was just the right message, the right time. there was this intersection of people looking for healthier products, looking for brands they could trust, looking for brands that are very transparent in what they do and what they offer the consumer.

13:55A lot of different things came together. So we could just see that the brand really resonating with consumer. And so about a year and a half into our sort of supplier relationship with them, we got all together and said, look, there's so much more opportunity here if we work together as a team and put all this together and really unify the supply chain because that's what we're going to need to do to scale it. There was so much parts of the supply chain that needed to be built out. And so, yeah, so we engineered a merger of the two companies. And since then, you know, really have put the vast majority of our resources behind Avocado.

14:33And it's grown from, you know, those early days to what it is today. You know, we're approaching nearly a thousand employees at this point. Wow. And we're in 600 retail locations. We have 14 of our own retail locations, so it's grown a huge amount in 10 years. So we'll be hitting our 10th anniversary here at the end of the year. So where do you see the majority of your new customers coming from? Are they walking through a mall and seeing avocado? or are they coming in through word of mouth or from maybe advertisements on social? Where is it coming from? You know, we try to have a balanced approach at this point.

15:20We always talk about, you know, we want to be where the consumer wants to shop. And so we obviously still do a huge D2C business, which is via our website, Avocado Green Mattress. But we have been expanding our retail operation. Like I said, we have 14 of our own. What are experience centers, which are company-owned, real brand stores in, like you said, high-traffic locations? Those are curated to really get the entire avocado experience, the entire avocado product line, the real whole lifestyle. Everything from your crib mattresses to your kids to pillows, organic sheets, pillows, blankets, the entire gamut.

16:05We've obviously been expanding that. And then over the last couple of years, we've been expanding our mattress offering. That's still our sort of hero product. And there we've been growing into our strategic partner doors. And there we're now approaching about 600 locations that are different dealers that we work with. And we reach all 50 states at this point. So what do you think are some of the biggest operational challenges in maintaining kind of the standards that you set at scale? I mean, for us, it's obviously, you know, I've talked a couple of times already about just scaling the supply chain, getting latex in the quantities we need was a challenge initially.

16:48Getting the amount of wool, the amount of cotton fabric that as a company grew, like that was actually a real big challenge early on. Now, you know, as a business has really sort of scaled, it's a little bit different. I mean, we feel like we run three different businesses. So, you know, we have a manufacturing business that's got to make a lot of products, make it efficiently, you know, productively, make it with high quality control, make it very consistently. Then we have this sort of fulfillment operation where, you know, we have to fulfill D2C customers. We have to fulfill wholesale customers who are ordering by the truckload.

17:22Then we have to service our own stores, which is running, you know, our team members, all of our sales team members, all of the individual locations and all that entails. So we feel like the operational, it's like three different businesses that we have to sort of manage and they all have their own sort of unique challenges. Yeah, definitely. So when you look at scaling, you talked about you have a thousand employees now. I mean, that is you got to get everybody on board on the bus, right? Around everybody's got to be really thinking and believing in what you're offering. How do you do that? Like, how do you hire for that?

18:05Because that's a lot of people to employ, but making sure that people really understand the vision of Avocado and are speaking that. Yeah, no, I think we spent a lot of time, you know, in the company speaking about our mission and our passion for sustainability. I think, you know, we want to obviously find people who believe in what they're doing. And that's up and down, you know, our employment stack. I mean, everybody from the factory floor all the way to the executives. You know, when we do our quarterly business reviews, when we do our town halls, you know, we start off by talking about what's our vision, what's our mission, like what are our major goals this year.

18:48And so, you know, we try to set a tone, a path that everybody understands. And, you know, sometimes it's sort of a repetition. We have to preach it, say it, and make sure that it gets codified that way. And I think it goes a long way to making sure everybody's sort of marching in the same direction. Yeah, definitely. What misconceptions do people still have about organic mattresses and kind of sustainable home goods? I feel like even your sheets that you guys have launched, I was amazed at the quality because it really oftentimes I have had, not always, but some organic sheets just don't really feel like they're that really, they're very good quality, right?

19:38They're too thin or something about it. But when I tried yours, it was just amazing. They're nice. They're thick. They're soft. Yeah, no, I think that that's some, you know, one of the misconceptions is that you're compromising quality to go to using natural. And I think, you know, the technology obviously has evolved a long ways. And I think if you do it where you don't compromise quality, using natural shouldn't have to compromise quality. Certainly synthetic materials over time, you know, there's technology that gets put in them to solve for different issues. But when we think about like a sleep surface, which is, you know, where are you going to spend a third of your time, you know, having something that you're not worried about if it's off gassing or that you're worried about, you know, your baby sleeping face down on it and having their mouth on it.

20:29Are you going to be worried about what is it made out of? We think those things are very, very important. So I think that's one misconception that somehow using natural somehow compromise the quality. And that's not necessarily the case. It's about how you do it and not compromising on, you know, where you source the product. Like when we buy organic cotton, you know, we buy long staple organic cotton for our sheep. We're not trying to buy, you know, the lowest price cotton in the market. When we source our wool, we actually had to go to India, work with the local farmers to help them get certified organic, make sure that they understand, you know, we'll pay a little bit of a premium because they can't feed and they can't treat their herd a certain way.

21:19And that leads to, you know, better fur. And in the end, it leads to a better product we get. But there's a time that it takes for that to happen. And you have an issue where, you know, farmers don't want to invest in that because they need to sort of make a living today. And so one of the few things we did the first few years in India was we would pay half of that year's crop up front so that they would be able to get those funds, be able to really commit to the organic standards and not worry that they weren't going to have a buyer at the end of the season. so there are things like that done you know to make sure that the quality is is really uh the highest um i think the other misconception is um people who are used to sort of a memory phone feel or used to a certain type of feel they they somehow think you can't recreate that with the components we use and you know we've done a lot of uh work along that that are so we could create a very nice.

22:21And we have lots of different feels. So we could create a very plush feel. We could create a very firm feel and everything in between. And a lot of that work is because we started to create our own spring system. So we have our own spring factory and the spring support system really is a big part in how you create that feel. We always have partnerships with our latex factories. So over time, we've really have dialed in how to make latex from the sap of a rubber tree feel a certain way. And then all the different fibers we use and the different ways we layer them create a lot of different feels.

22:59So I think that's the other misconception is that if you buy an all-natural organic mattress, there's not variety in the feel or that you can't get this ultra-plush, amazing feel in it. Have you grown beyond the U.S.? for your markets? Just Canada. Just Canada, yeah. We get a lot of inquiries from different countries, and some of them are tempting, but we always look back and say, look, there's a lot to do here in the U.S., and really scratching the surface, there's a lot more awareness that we need to get out here, and so we want to focus on this market. What is the most difficult product that you've produced?

23:46Because you do have different mattresses. You talked about different components, including the latex as well as the different fibers that you're using. But when you're actually creating a product, I often think that founders or even entrepreneurs, CEOs of companies as you are that are really innovating and doing things in a way that are kind of breaking barriers in an industry. is there one product where maybe you don't get as much credit for creating this product that people are like, oh, it's great, and you're telling your friend, that was really hard to do. You better appreciate it. Well, I will tell you, we just launched our Grand Lux line last year, and it's a very high price point.

24:41It's definitely in the uber luxury category, but people think it's sort of just price there to price there, but it's a lot of work to put that bed together. There's like 18 different layers. It's because there's so many layers and we don't believe in gluing our layers together. It's got to be hand stitched from the side. There's probably like three or 400 stitches along the side of the border that somebody's got to do by hand. There's hand tufting on the top and you have four or five different layers of springs and you got all these different exotic fibers from alpaca to wool, silk blends of fiber.

25:18And so it takes a lot of people to put that bed together. It takes a lot of hours. And, you know, at the end of the day, and it's a heavy bed. In the end, when it's finished being made, it's probably, you know, over 200 pounds. And so it's quite a product. I mean, but it is built to last a lifetime. And so I think when people see the finished product, maybe there's an underappreciation of how many sort of hundreds of hours that it's taken to put all that together. When do people get to a point of moving from the cheap mattresses for whatever? I don't even know if you could buy a mattress for 99 bucks anymore, but let's use that just as a fun number to where they want to really move into the luxury category.

26:08Who is that consumer? When do they do that? that's a good question you know we kind of talk about it a little differently we say you know we want to go after the master bedroom customer and i think that's maybe where it is it's like maybe when when you get to the point where you you you have a master bedroom you know and and and so you know when you're shopping for your king size and queen size master bedroom bed i think that's that's kind of where you you really need to get a grown-up bed um and and that's you I think when people start to really think about buying a high quality product so that it lasts.

26:43And maybe it's perhaps when you buy your first home and you realize, okay, I'm not going to be renting and moving every year or every other year. I'm actually going to be a little bit more stationary. And so let me buy something of high quality that's going to stay with me. Yeah, definitely. And once you get the mattresses, is there any sort of tips that you suggest to consumers that they should do in order to keep their mattress as good as it was when it was first purchased? well like what our mattress the one thing you don't have to do is you don't have to rotate them or turn them anything because our mattresses are held together with generally like 24 different tufts that hold all the layers together so the materials never shipped around um i would say in general the one thing consumers probably underappreciate is how important a pillow is for for a good night's sleep and a comfortable sleep everybody has a sort of different uh body profile.

27:43So finding that right pillow is important. And then, you know, having, changing that pillow out in probably higher frequency than most people do is probably important because pillow will sort of lose its support and everything. And making sure that you have the right support is probably 60, 70 % of like feeling comfortable on your mattress starts with the pillow. Yeah. And you guys, you all are selling the pillows. You have amazing, amazing pillows. What's your favorite pillow that you sell? I, the one I sleep on I like the most is our molded latex pillow. Oh. I just like it because you don't have to fluff it.

28:19It stays one size. You know, it doesn't have to be fluffed or anything because it's just a solid mold. And, you know, we have different heights. So you got to find that one height that sort of fits your neck profile. And then it works great because, you know, it's going to be the same height every night. Yeah, definitely. So you are really leading this category and shaping the future of, I think, sustainable consumer brands, not just in the mattress industry, in the home industry overall. How is the definition of luxury really evolving in the home category overall that you see? I mean, I'm sure you look not just at kind of the products and in the categories that you're selling, but also overall.

29:05Like, what do you think is happening right now in the luxury category? I think people who can afford luxury are starting to really focus on, you know, whether it's a luxury experience. luxury has become a lot less what label you're displaying and a lot more what you're consuming, you know, and whether that's through an experience, through, you know, a dinner and outing with friends. And we think it's the same thing with our product. It's, you know, you're certainly not showing people what type of mattress you have. So, but it's luxury because you're willing to spend on a high quality product that you know is going to be good for you.

29:48And that's better for your health and better for your sleep. And so, you know, I think that's our sense where luxury is going is that it's a lot more commitment to having a great experience with the product and not necessarily having a product that other people recognize. Yeah, definitely. When you think about success and for not just the avocado, but also you're running Brentwood Home as well, what is success for you? And it's, you know, I think it's always, I love asking this question because real entrepreneurs, they sort of shuffle in their seats because they know that they're just driven to, you know, keep going and make it better and better.