829 Marc Jonna: Co-Founder & President of Plum Market

0:00Kara Goldin:I am unwilling to give up, but I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be. You just want to make sure you will get knocked down, but just make sure you don't get knocked out. So your only choice should be, go focus on what you can control. Hi everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin Show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world's greatest leaders. We'll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can't wait to get started. Let's go. This episode of the Kara Golden Show is brought to you by LinkedIn Hiring Pro.

0:47Kara Goldin:Hi, Kara here. For small businesses, every hire matters, but so does your time. I felt that pressure firsthand. You know, a bad hire isn't just frustrating, it's expensive in time, money, and team morale. And yet hiring the right person can feel like a full-time job on top of everything else you're already doing. Sifting through applications, trying to spot the real standouts, second-guessing decisions, it can get overwhelming fast. That's why having a way to save time without sacrificing quality isn't just nice to have, it's critical. Luckily, LinkedIn Hiring Pro is built for that reality. It's your hiring partner designed to help you hire with confidence by surfacing only the right candidates without turning hiring into another full-time job.

1:39Kara Goldin:Posting a job isn't always the hard part. It's finding, connecting with, and screening the right candidates. Hiring Pro streamlines the entire process from drafting your job to shortlisting candidates and conducting AI-powered interviews for initial screenings. Their updated conversational interface lets you describe what you need in plain language, no recruiter jargon needed. Nearly 60 % of hires find a candidate to interview within a week. With Hiring Pro, you spend less time searching and more time connecting with the right talent. Join the 2.7 million small businesses using LinkedIn to hire.

2:19Kara Goldin:Get started by posting your job for free at linkedin.com slash Kara Golden. Terms and conditions apply. This message is a paid partnership with AT &T Business. Hey everyone, Kara here. Let's get real about those early days of building a business. Not the highlight reel, the actual day-to-day, the friction, trying to manage everything across time zones, across teams, across locations, and realizing how much depends on staying connected. I remember those days at Hint, a retailer call, an order, a decision, all of it. And you realize quickly, connection isn't a nice to have. It's the lifeblood of your business.

3:03Kara Goldin:As a founder, you don't want to think about your connectivity. You just need it to work every time. That's why AT &T Business matters. AT &T Business is the reliable provider for small business owners. And when you have that kind of reliability behind you, you can focus on what actually moves your business forward. Powered by AT &T Business, built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com. Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the Kara Golden Show. Today, I'm joined by Mark Jonah, who is the co-founder and president of Plum Market, the specialty grocery chain known for its focus on quality, experience, and locally sourced products.

3:51Kara Goldin:And Mark is a third-generation grocer who started working in his family's business at just 14 years old. By 19, he was leading a seven-store operation that was eventually acquired by Whole Foods. After spending time inside of Whole Foods on the national leadership team, Mark and his brother Matt saw an opportunity to build something different. And that's how Plum Market was born. Since launching in 2007, Plum Market has grown to, I guess, over 40 locations now. Is that correct? And I love his format overall. It's not just traditional grocery stores, I should say. They're also in airports, food service, also in sports performance centers, all while staying focused on delivering a premium hospitality-driven experience.

4:40Kara Goldin:So, Mark, I cannot wait to get into this conversation. Also a member of YPO too, which of course I love. So Mark, welcome to the Kara Golden Show. So excited to have you here. I'm really excited. Really love listening to your podcast and honored to be here. This episode of the Kara Golden Show is brought to you by LinkedIn Hiring Pro. Hi, Kara here. For small businesses, every hire matters, but so does your time. I felt that pressure firsthand. You know, a bad hire isn't just frustrating. It's expensive in time, money, and team morale. And yet hiring the right person can feel like a full-time job on top of everything else you're already doing.

5:25Kara Goldin:Sifting through applications, trying to spot the real standouts, second-guessing decisions, it can get overwhelming fast. That's why having a way to save time without sacrificing quality isn't just nice to have, it's critical. Luckily, LinkedIn Hiring Pro is built for that reality. It's your hiring partner designed to help you hire with confidence by surfacing only the right candidates without turning hiring into another full-time job. Posting a job isn't always the hard part. It's finding, connecting with, and screening the right candidates. Hiring Pro streamlines the entire process from drafting your job to shortlisting candidates and conducting AI-powered interviews for initial screenings.

6:11Kara Goldin:Their updated conversational interface lets you describe what you need in plain language, no recruiter jargon needed. Nearly 60 % of hires find a candidate to interview within a week. With Hiring Pro, you spend less time searching and more time connecting with the right talent. Join the 2.7 million small businesses using LinkedIn to hire. Get started by posting your job for free at linkedin.com slash Kara Golden. Terms and conditions apply. This episode of the Kara Golden Show is brought to you by Bombas. Let's be honest, this time of year just hits different. The weather finally turns, you're outside more, moving more, and suddenly the little things you wear every day actually matter.

6:56Kara Goldin:That's why I've been reaching for Bombas. I've been getting back into walking and hiking again, and their sport socks are a total game changer. They're cushioned exactly where you need it, super breathable, and they just stay put. So I'm not thinking about my socks. I'm enjoying the movement. And once the hikes go away, their warm weather footwear is honestly my go-to. The slides are lightweight, waterproof, and incredibly comfortable. Perfect for running around Marin, traveling, or just relaxing at home. But it's not just socks and shoes, their underwear and tees are next level. Soft, breathable, and actually built to last.

7:35Kara Goldin:It's one of those upgrades you don't realize you need until you try it. And here's the part I really love. For every item you purchase, Bombas donates an essential clothing item to someone facing housing insecurity. They've donated over 150 million items and counting. That's impact. Head over to bombas.com slash Cara and use code Cara for 20 % off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash Cara. Code Cara at checkout. Thank you. Very excited. Well, for listeners who may not know the brand Plum Market yet, how do you describe the brand and what makes it different? Well, we started Plum, my brother and I, in 2006.

8:22we wanted to elevate the shopping experience. Instead of making it a chore, we really wanted to make it an experience where when people came into Plum, it was kind of like this Disneyland of food where it was a treasure hunt. Even when you walk into our festival, we have all different new finds and things for our guests to see or seasonal stuff. And it just, as you explore the perishables of produce and meat and our prepared foods cooked from scratch or flowers or apothecary, Like we have so many items. So we really wanted to take that chore and make it really experience in a neighborhood kind of community where you saw your friends.

8:59Because, you know, there's a lot of competitions with pickup and delivery to make things easier. And so how do you get people into your stores? You know, you have to give them hospitality. So the Four Seasons like service. And you have to make your team really educated so that people want to come in and learn and discover new things. Like when you created Hint, we would have been one of the first stores to say yes to you and tell your store.

9:23Kara Goldin:Yeah, definitely. And let's go back to the beginning. So you and your brother started Plum Market. But before that, your father had built Merchant Aveeno from the ground up. And you were running seven stores by, I guess, starting when you were 14 and then running the stores by the time you were 19. what did growing up inside of a family grocery business what a family business teach you that maybe business school or college or wouldn't teach you you know you know it was funny when i was going to high school my professors knew merchant of you know they would shop there they said jonah you're probably not going to go to college because you're learning it firsthand you're going to merchant of life because you know because my dad saw as a merchant of you You know, so the merchant of, you know, university.

10:14And it really taught me hard work first. You know, you have to work hard in this world to be successful. Humility. Really, you have to order at a young age to work with a team that's more experienced and older. You got to learn how to be humble and learn from them. To listen more, because I'm younger. I had to learn from the elders, and they always taught you. And to also feel confident eventually in your own ideas. So it was almost like you want to teach someone to swim. Do you talk about it a lot and show them videos or do you just throw them in the middle of the water and make them swim and then get them if they're going to drown?

10:50And my dad kind of had that, I'm going to throw them in the middle of the ocean. And if he needs me, I'll go get them, but he'll figure out how to swim back.

10:57Kara Goldin:This message is a paid partnership with AT &T Business. Hey, everyone, Kara here. Let's get real about those early days of building a business, not the highlight reel. the actual day-to-day, the friction, trying to manage everything across time zones, across teams, across locations, and realizing how much depends on staying connected. I remember those days at Hint, a retailer call, an order, a decision, all of it. And you realize quickly, connection isn't a nice-to-have, it's the lifeblood of your business. As a founder, you don't want to think about your connectivity. You just need it to work every time.

11:41Kara Goldin:That's why AT &T Business matters. AT &T Business is the reliable provider for small business owners. And when you have that kind of reliability behind you, you can focus on what actually moves your business forward. Powered by AT &T Business. Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com. This episode of the Kara Golden Show is brought to you by LinkedIn Hiring Pro. Hi, Kara here. First of all, businesses every hire matters, but so does your time. I felt that pressure firsthand. You know, a bad hire isn't just frustrating, it's expensive. In time, money, and team morale. And yet hiring the right person can feel like a full-time job on top of everything else you're already doing.

12:34Kara Goldin:Sifting through applications, trying to spot the real standouts, second-guessing decisions, it can get overwhelming fast. That's why having a way to save time without sacrificing quality isn't just nice to have, it's critical. Luckily, LinkedIn HiringPro is built for that reality. It's your hiring partner designed to help you hire with confidence by surfacing only the right candidates without turning hiring into another full-time job. Posting a job isn't always the hard part. It's finding, connecting with, and screening the right candidates. HiringPro streamlines the entire process from drafting your job to shortlisting candidates and conducting AI-powered interviews for initial screenings.

13:20Kara Goldin:Their updated conversational interface lets you describe what you need in plain language, no recruiter jargon needed. Nearly 60 % of hires find a candidate to interview within a week. With Hiring Pro, you spend less time searching and more time connecting with the right talent. Join the 2.7 million small businesses using LinkedIn to hire. Get started by posting your job for free at linkedin.com slash Kara Golden. Terms and conditions apply. I always say when our family has, my kids have worked at Hint, it's, you know, I can put in a good word for you to get you the job, but it's almost you're under a bigger microscope, right?

14:07Kara Goldin:Because you're the, as my son likes to call the, those kids, the Nepo babies, right? And if you're not going to actually deliver, you know, it's embarrassing overall to the family, to the brand, to the owner, to the CEO. So you got to do it in addition to you. So would you agree? My first job was mopping and sweeping. So I might have to make me over and over again until I got it right. So I learned the hard way how to mop and sweep. I love it. So Whole Foods acquired your family business in 98 and you stayed on as a national wine buyer and eventually joined the leadership team. So what did you learn working inside this incredible brand?

14:55Kara Goldin:You were there at such an incredible time. I mean, it was just hitting that big, big mountain of growth. But what did you learn there, maybe in the early days and as you were there watching it grow? That's a great question because, you know, my dad and mom taught me the first part of my business career, my brother. And the second part of our career was working for, you know, publicly traded large company that really was a mission driven company, a great company. And so when I went there, I really got to understand how to build a culture of a company. and that's where, you know, John Mackey, I think, was brilliant and Walter and some of the people in the beginning of Whole Foods.

15:39They really taught me about culture and how to create an empowerment culture for your team members, how to support your vendors. Really, they also told me on a personal side, health. I was like you. I drank a lot of Coca-Cola and ate a lot of bad things. And when I went to Whole Foods and I just went to my first chicken farm, or I was exposed to what all these corn syrup and stuff were doing, artificial flavors and additives. I always tell people, I wasn't brainwashed. I was exposed. And when I got exposed, I was cold turkey. I switched. And the first thing I did is something that you did. I didn't start drinking anything, artificial sweeteners, additives, or sugar in my drinks.

16:18And I lost weight and lost acne. I couldn't believe when I read your story. We have so much similarities. And Hopewood's taught me that. And so I just got inspired by what John and the leadership team was doing at Whole Foods. And Matt did too. We thought that it was a wonderful company to learn and how to scale in multiple states and stuff. And just getting an MBA from a company like that was amazing.

16:40Kara Goldin:This message is a paid partnership with AT &T Business. Hey, everyone. Kara here. Let's get real about those early days of building a business. Not the highlight reel. the actual day-to-day, the friction, trying to manage everything across time zones, across teams, across locations, and realizing how much depends on staying connected. I remember those days at Hint, a retailer call, an order, a decision, all of it. And you realize quickly, connection isn't a nice-to-have, it's the lifeblood of your business. As a founder, you don't want to think about your connectivity. You just need it to work every time.

17:24Kara Goldin:That's why AT &T Business matters. AT &T Business is the reliable provider for small business owners. And when you have that kind of reliability behind you, you can focus on what actually moves your business forward. Powered by AT &T Business, built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com. That's incredible. So your brother, Matt, also went into the company as well, into Whole Foods? Yes. He was in operations in California. But Matt's a true entrepreneur and he can only stay so long. And then he was like, I got to go back to Michigan. He went into real estate, but he was counting the days to come out of his non-compete.

18:10And he would always text me and say, don't get too comfortable. So we're going to start something one day. And John and those guys knew my brother and I were going to leave one day. And there was one point I was doing really well in the company and my dad called me and said, listen, you can't be there forever. I didn't teach you to work for Whole Foods for the rest of your life. You don't know where that company is going to be in 20 years or if the leadership is going to be there. You need to make the jump with your brother. And he kind of pushed me over the cliff and it was the best decision I've ever made.

18:37I mean, that's a great guy to work with.

18:39Kara Goldin:So interesting. So a lot of people might not realize, especially if you're a new entrepreneur or aspiring entrepreneur, that if you are fortunate enough to sell your company and go through an acquisition, you typically will have some kind of non-compete clause. It sounded like you had a five-year non-compete after the acquisition, but you ended up staying a little bit longer than that. Yeah. It's time to kind of figure out what we wanted to do and plan, Matt was planning. I stayed a little bit longer. And then when it was time to make the jump, you know, I met with the leadership team and told him I was leaving, brought my laptop and everything.

19:22And John Mackey said, no, stay out until you need to leave. I trust you, Mark. You've been an incredible asset, the Whole Foods, and you've always been up front with us. So I left on really great terms and great friends with still with those guys today and speak to like Walter Robb all the time.

19:38Kara Goldin:Oh, that's awesome. So when you think about your business plan? I mean, I guess some people would view it as competitive to what Whole Foods was doing, but you really saw it differently. What was, at least in the beginning days, what was going on that you felt like there was a whole, a white space in the market that you could really feel that Whole Foods wasn't touching? I left before Whole Foods had to sell to Amazon, but I knew the writing was on the wall. I felt it. John was getting a lot of pressure for some of the things that he wanted to do and the board was putting pressure on it. And also I thought that Whole Foods was becoming instead of a quality standard, it's a restrictive standard, in my opinion, because they're banning certain products like prosciutto da Parma from Italy, which I didn't agree with.

20:25And the foodies like Lex Alexander, myself, Bob Johnson, we were all leaving the company because we were in it because we really wanted great artisanal products too. And we wanted to tell the stories. And we wanted people to really have their own power to make those decisions. I always say you can be the CEO of your body. You have the choice to what you want to eat or drink. Nobody's forcing you. So I wanted to create a culture with my brother, Matt, that really went after that. But we just put quality standards, not restrictive standards. And that's the reason why we thought Plum could be something unique.

20:59And if Whole Foods did get sold, it would never be the same and it isn't today. I mean, I think most of the leadership, if not all, is gone. So it's not the same company it was when you sold them back in, you know, 2000s when you brought your Hint water. You couldn't do that today at Whole Foods, in my opinion. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. You could do it at Plum Market, though. Someone like you walked in my door with a great product, I would do that. And so would my brother.

21:23Kara Goldin:Yeah. And that's exactly how we got it on the shelf. back in 2005 was literally walking into a local store and they gave a certain amount of shelf space if the right entrepreneurs came in to those local products. So we were really fortunate and it really helped to build the brand ultimately. So critical to what you just said. You struck a nerve with me in a good way. We started Plum to be a brand champion and one of our founding guiding principles was we're not going to be a private label company and to this day we don't have any private labels the only thing private i have my store is things i cook from scratch out of my kitchens so we really believe that the founders of those products had such a passion for what they were doing there was a reason for it that we wanted to be the brand champions but most of the grocery industry 30 of the 40 penetration of private labels today and we don't believe that.

22:24So we're the opposite. And that was one of the big things in Plum that we've always truly have been inspired about.

22:31Kara Goldin:I'm so curious about that because you probably saw a lot when you were, if it wasn't your division, it was just overall being on the leadership team. Did most products or most founders make a decision to really focus on the brand? I often get this question from upcoming, or I should say aspiring entrepreneurs who are thinking, you know, do I go and do part of my product and private label to kind of grow a category? You know, what should I do? Because on the one hand, it'll help get my cost down because my, you know, I'll be able to create more product and get my margins a little bit. So there's all this thinking, but how would you respond to something like that based on what you know from being on the retail side of things and seeing so many founders in so many different categories?

23:31Yeah, I would say be very careful of that because a lot of great companies, when they've done that, the larger companies have squeezed them to do certain quality differences, to hit certain price points in packaging. And sometimes you lose your way and your product does. And then eventually your main product loses its quality and you get replaced by the true retailers that say, you know what, you're not the same. And I've got some stories I can tell you, but I don't want to name brands on this show. But there's a lot of brands that I had to, after six, seven years of carrying, get rid of because they weren't the same product.

24:04And that's not the reason I'm carrying in our stores. And so be very careful that they don't do that. And if they ever pull the plug on you in the rug, that financial hit crushes you. It's very dangerous. I wish you don't have to do that. I'd like you not to do private labels. I know some people have to, but I would say the ones that don't, if you're not just about money, you're truly about creating something for purpose, then you're safer not doing that. So the first market that you went into, you and your brother started Plum Market and decided to really create this premium grocery concept.

24:44Kara Goldin:What was the first market that you built? And did you just build one or sort of what was kind of the format of that? It was in our backyard in Michigan, Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, which is a phenomenal area. People always give the state of Michigan a bad name. I mean, if I was in L.A. or New York, we'd probably be 10 times more famous than our stores because they're absolutely first class stores, best in the country, in my opinion. But Bloomfield Hills deserves it. It's one of the most incredible suburbs in the world. Nine private schools around us, great public schools, great people that are worldly traveled.

25:19And we wanted to put in our own backyard. So we opened up our first store in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan. And it was a hit from day one. And people really responded. And we have the best guests in the world. So Michigan is always kind of the heart and soul where Plum started. And we wouldn't be here today without the state of Michigan.