878 Phantila Phataraprasit: Co-Founder & CEO of Sabai

28:39Kara Goldin:Initially, you focused on very modular furniture for younger people, and parts of that have changed. Or I guess, how has your consumer changed over time? That part has stayed the same. We've continued to make sure that that's really part of every single collection we launched, because that is really unique to Sabai, I would say. We launched that two years after the initial launch of the company because we started off with you know the initial product probably not that many people are going to need replacement parts for the first two years of having something and then we launched the the repair program and it's just you know we gained a lot of recognition for that and then we've also seen i think that was one thing where it's like it's not really something people are asking for necessarily but we felt we had the belief that if we offered it something that people would really value it's just that it's not something that people see and so they don't know that it's an option and so it's been really validating to see that people you know in our post-purchase surveys on reddit are writing about how they really wanted to buy from us because we have a repair program and so the month that is really hand in hand with the modularity because designing for modularity and repairability served the same goal or it informed the design process very similarly.

30:09So to be able to, you know, take apart components and be able to replace them served both modularity and repairability.

30:16Kara Goldin:This episode of the Kara Golden Show is brought to you by LinkedIn Hiring Pro. Hi, Kara here. For small businesses, every hire matters, but so does your time. I felt that pressure firsthand. You know, a bad hire isn't just frustrating, it's expensive in time, money, and team morale. And yet hiring the right person can feel like a full-time job on top of everything else you're already doing. Sifting through applications, trying to spot the real standouts, second-guessing decisions, it can get overwhelming fast. That's why having a way to save time without sacrificing quality isn't just nice to have, it's critical.

31:01Kara Goldin:Luckily, LinkedIn Hiring Pro is built for that reality. It's your hiring partner designed to help you hire with confidence by surfacing only the right candidates without turning hiring into another full-time job. Posting a job isn't always the hard part. It's finding, connecting with, and screening the right candidates. Hiring Pro streamlines the entire process from drafting your job to shortlisting candidates and conducting AI-powered interviews for initial screenings. Their updated conversational interface lets you describe what you need in plain language, no recruiter jargon needed. Nearly 60 % of hires find a candidate to interview within a week.

31:43Kara Goldin:With Hiring Pro, you spend less time searching and more time connecting with the right talent. Join the 2.7 million small businesses using LinkedIn to hire. Get started by posting your job for free at linkedin.com slash Kara Golden. Terms and conditions apply. This episode of the Kara Golden Show is brought to you by Pendulum. I think we've all had those days where we eat a meal, feel satisfied, and then not long after, we're wondering, what's in the pantry? That's what made me curious about Pendulum Metabolic Daily. Pendulum Metabolic Daily is a science-backed probiotic designed to support your body's natural GLP-1 response, helping you feel fuller, longer, experience fewer cravings, and stay on track with your health goals.

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33:20Kara Goldin:This message is a paid partnership with AT &T Business. Hey everyone, Kara here. Let's get real about those early days of building a business. not the highlight reel, the actual day-to-day, the friction, trying to manage everything across time zones, across teams, across locations, and realizing how much depends on staying connected. I remember those days at Hint, a retailer call, an order, a decision, all of it. And you realize quickly, connection isn't a nice-to-have, it's the lifeblood of your business. As a founder, You don't want to think about your connectivity. You just need it to work every time.

34:05Kara Goldin:That's why AT &T Business matters. AT &T Business is the reliable provider for small business owners. And when you have that kind of reliability behind you, you can focus on what actually moves your business forward. Powered by AT &T Business, built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com. And obviously focuses too on the waste component. And, you know, being able to really encourage people to not toss, which is often what happens with furniture. Can you talk about some of the pieces that you have? Because I really think they're so unique. Thank you. One of the ones I really love is the chair that turns into a bed, which of course, if you have a friend over or I don't know, even if you decide that you want to sleep in another room, I guess, TV night or whatever.

35:09Kara Goldin:But can you talk about that? Because also the fabrics are so amazing and unique. I know you're one of the fabrics that you have in all different colors is hemp. So but can you talk a little bit about that? And how do you decide on what you're actually going to be using on the Sabai products? Yeah, that is one of my favorite products. And so I'm glad you feel the same way. That one was a really fun one to design. I think, I mean, starting with the sleeper collection, I think we knew that we tested it out actually with one of our existing sofas, offering it as a sleeper. But it wasn't built from, I would say, the ground up to be a sleeper sofa.

35:55And so we created a mechanism for it to turn it into a sleeper. And that actually gained a lot of traction, which gave us the confidence to say, okay, let's design a full collection of sleepers. Because we're seeing a lot of signs that people are looking for sleepers that actually look good as sofas as well. And they're easy to use. And so then we went into, you know, designing the eclipse collection. And in terms of the fabrics and the materials, I think that's one of the most fun parts of my job is being able to be really involved in that. And we do a lot of customer surveys and research and things like that.

36:35But it's also just informed by our team and me and what we feel like would look great, essentially, and what we feel is exciting. And I think that we felt like the era of the gray couch was coming to an end and people wanted to really have fun and put their personality into their homes and have it be a place that they feel really excited by and proud of. And so with that, you know, we, since our inception, we had a line of velvets that were very colorful. And so that was part of our thinking since onset. And then in the recent launch of the hemp collection, we've gone into stripes and the eclipse collection have gone into contrast piping.

37:19And that's been really fun. And it's been really exciting to see, you know, people opt for a fabric color like our thistle, which is essentially like a periwinkle, which, you know, if you had told me that a few years ago, ago, I would not have guessed that would be one of our best selling fabrics. And I don't think most people would, but I think that that's where you get kind of awarded for doing something that's outside of the norm that you aren't just saying like, okay, most people are buying, you know, a cream couch or whatever it is and going by the data in that way. I think it's, it was a lesson in balancing the data of what's been purchased and what people are buying versus, you know, how you can break through the noise with design.

38:00To your point around like the hemp or your question around hemp specifically, that's something that we were, we offered since we started, we offered a cotton blend since the start. But I think that was a bit also early for where people were at in terms of what they were prioritizing in their purchases. I think people cared a lot more about, you know, stain resistance and head resistance and videos of water rolling off the fabric and things like that. And didn't kind of forgot how to take care of natural fabrics that aren't treated in that way and that you might have to, you know, dab and wash.

38:41And so it's actually a recent trend that we've seen that our hemp has really grown a lot in traction. And I I think that's the rise in, you know, wellness and people wanting more natural materials. And they're also very breathable, which, you know, it's getting hotter. It's the summer. It's something that, you know, we've seen people really resonate with.

39:03Kara Goldin:So you talked about there are things that you've created that have kind of surprised you, like the periwinkle color or things that maybe you didn't expect or maybe another brand hasn't seen. I'm so curious like when you're creating a product first of all what does the design process look like from idea to actual finished product and how do you how do you make those decisions right to go and do something like a periwinkle. Yeah, it's such a good question. And it's a really fun process. And it's a fun problem to solve. We're actually coming out of the line of beds in the fall. And it felt like the ground up of a whole new category of how we're going to tackle this product and think about it as a problem-solving exercise.

39:55Because ultimately, that is what it is for us. because we're piecing together, okay, the price point, the materials, the manufacturing capabilities that are within our network or fit into our model because we make the order within the U.S. And so we're constrained by our current suppliers or other suppliers within the U.S. And we're not going abroad right now to our manufacturing. And so I'd say it starts with thinking about, you know, what I think going back to the customer really, because that's who matters. And so thinking about, okay, what's missing in the market or the experience for that customer right now?

40:34Or I think if you think about a bed, like what's hard to find or just annoying about the current offerings, whether that could be, you know, price point, that could be personality and color and design, that could be functionality, like storage is hard and it's expensive when you do buy that with storage. And so, and then the materials is another part of it, obviously is finding, you know, our MO when it comes to materials is sustainable and low impact, essentially a non-toxic. And so materials that have our chemical free forever, chemical free, and we are really, we are really focused on natural materials.

41:15And so that's always, it's a juggling exercise to like toggle like okay if we use these materials what does that change in terms of the price and are we able to do the design that we want from an aesthetic perspective using those materials so it's a very iterative process i would say between me our designer and our manufacturing partner to continue figuring out you know how do we find that sweet spot for us

41:44Kara Goldin:When you think about where you've started and where you are today, what's the most surprising aspect about, I guess, building Sabai that has sort of surprised you? Because even when you've grown up in, it sounds like, a very entrepreneurial family, you weren't doing a consumer product or watching somebody else do a hard product, right? Your mom is in the service business, right? Which is in hotels and travel. And that's also a hard business, but it's a different business. So you really did not have anyone sort of whispering in your ear or you could, you know, watch them make all the mistakes. I mean, this is learning by trial, learning, you know, under fire, however you want to what what has been the most kind of hard and surprising aspect of growing Sabai?

42:43I mean, every business, you know, has its things and its challenges. I think I did not think about how or the impact of deciding to produce and sell and ship things that are so large. It sounds like such a obvious thing. But, you know, it impacts really every part of the business, whether it's photo shoots, getting content in the early days, you know, we were renting U-Hauls and trucking these, um, couches around to the set or to whatever event to try to get it there. It impacts gifting, it impacts like the logistics. Um, and so I would say that was definitely something that I didn't realize or think about at the beginning that really hit me.

43:28But I think from a broader sense, I would say just how much things are constantly changing and to be, I think, good at your job, you always have to, it's not just, you can't continue just doing what you've been doing. You have to constantly be thinking about like, okay, how do I now get into this new channel or this, whether it's like a sales channel or a marketing channel, there are just always new opportunities, new challenges. And I think that, I mean, that's the fun and exciting part about, you know, running a business is constantly problem solving and facing these challenges. But I think that I don't, I did, I don't think I realized the speed and the extent to which the number of challenges that you're constantly faced with would be, especially within, you know, within marketing and sale, like in sales and selling a consumer or product.

44:19The ecosystem is changing all the time.

44:22Kara Goldin:Yeah, no, definitely. So you launched Fabric by the Yard. Can you talk a little bit about that incredible part of your business that not a lot of furniture manufacturers do? And I love it. So it's really great. But what inspired that program and can you talk about who's using it? Yeah, it was inspired by people like our customers really ask emailing in and asking us if they could buy yards of our fabric. I think that we realized that we've done all this work to source and develop materials for us that we found hard to source. And so, you know, a lot of the standard practice for a lot of furniture companies would be to buy off the shelf fabric or fabric that's stocked so that they don't have to develop the fabric from you know from the ground up whether it's the colors or whatever it is but for us we wanted fabrics that were whether our velvet is recycled velvet our hemp is a blend of hemp and cotton it's organic it's um none of our fabrics have any stain resistant treatments on them and so i guess we just realized that oh we've done all this work to find or to develop fabrics that meet all these things that we care about.

45:44And people are already buying our furniture because they care about these things. Let's make the fabric available as well because we're getting all these requests to buy the fabric by the yard. And so, yeah, we launched that back in February and a slowly growing part of our business. And it just kind of continues to supplement what we're already doing. And I would say that it's a lot of the customer for that, I would say are people who already have our sofas who want to use the fabric for other parts of their home and then also or use that fabric for other furniture that they have other seating as well.

46:20Kara Goldin:It's interesting because I think that that really speaks not only you're trying to serve your consumer but also your consumer trusts you right so they want to buy more from you because they trust that you've done the work, right? Exactly. To find, it's not just about matching colors, right? Or that might be a little bit about it, but it really is about the quality and what's behind that quality. So I think it's fascinating on many, many levels what that really speaks to. So you're an AAPI and female founder building in a category that has been very, very difficult to disrupt. What would you say has surprised you most about the overall founder journey?

47:17I would say, I mean, it definitely was true that we were starting a business in an industry that was mostly dominated by men and mostly white men. And when we were looking for a manufacturer, I think a lot of people encounter this where, you know, you have an idea and you develop it and you're now it's like, okay, well, someone will make it and it will that they overlook the challenge of that part. And we definitely were faced with that and would go to a lot of manufacturers who didn't understand what we were doing. And, you know, we were unproven as a brand. We didn't have sales yet. And so it was definitely a challenge to figure out or to find someone who would just literally make these products for us in the way we wanted them to be made, with the materials we wanted them to be made with.

48:03And so that was definitely really challenging. And we ultimately ended up finding a manufacturing partner that we still work with to today. And so I think one surprising thing, this is less about the founder journey, but just how relationship driven things can be. and if we hadn't found that manufacturer who they were a young minority-owned factory out of North Carolina who wanted to grow and took a bet on us and we've built that relationship and have continued working with them. We didn't have them. No one would have made the product and continued to make the product with us and grow with us through all the challenges that the industry has seen over the last five, six years.

48:48And so I think that's one thing that's been surprising is the relationships really do matter with your suppliers, with your vendors. And then the other surprising part, I mean, it was, it's the first business I've ever started. And so just the amount that you learn, I think about yourself and how you handle different situations has been just incredible. And I'm so grateful for the amount that I've learned about, you know, okay, am I, am I good at delegating? Am I a good leader? Am I good at having hard conversations? and, you know, facing the truth of the situation? Am I good at just picking myself back up when we have some hard moment and pivoting and, you know, encouraging our team and boosting morale?

49:32You just learn so much about yourself and how you handle things. And I think that's been such a gift. I'm so grateful for that.

49:39Kara Goldin:Yeah, no, definitely. It's so challenging to be a founder and also build a brand as you have and continue sticking to the core of why you started this company and actually doing it in a way that works, right? Where you're not losing tons of money, but getting your EBITDA and all that kind of stuff or getting headed in the right direction, at least. It's also new, I think, especially to a first-time founder, but also important. Everything's important, right? Every aspect of it. So I think also, it can be really lonely too. So everything that you're talking about, about relationships, also matter too, because I think as much as you can tap into someone else's expertise or network as well, they might be able to help you solve a problem faster, if not actually help you solve of it.

50:43Kara Goldin:So it's so, so interesting. You're on the board of the Sustainable Furnishings Council. I love it. So what would you like to see the broader furniture industry change that has not been, I guess, focused on to date? That's a great question. I think that the two buckets in my mind are the repairability and the materials. And so the repairability, there isn't really anybody else doing something similar to what we're doing because I think the logistics of it are just challenging. And so that's something that I'd like to see be more of a norm. I think that would help reduce waste in the industry tremendously.

51:32And then material-wise, that's another area where I feel like, you know, we're doing a lot of material testing and incorporating innovative materials into our products. And that can be expensive because there isn't, you know, mass adoption yet. And so the cost of those materials are higher. And so I think it would be amazing if more of the industry shifted towards more natural or non-toxic materials or sustainable materials so that we can lower the cost of that for everybody.

52:01Kara Goldin:Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So how have you gotten the word out about Sabai outside of the fact that you've been recognized by Architectural Digest, Elle Decor, Forbes, Wirecutter, Apartment Therapy, so much press around it. But has there been another way that when you look at what has really worked in terms of getting the word out about Savai? Because obviously, when you start a company, everything's tight, right? Like you can't spend tons of cash going and getting the word out by buying billboards and TV commercials and all this, even though you're doing great stuff. But what do you think has been the biggest help for you in terms of getting the word out about Sabai?

52:58Well, I will say that press really has been the biggest one for us. And I know you said other than press, but just to really underscore that, that has really been a really worthwhile investment for us is to spend the time and work with great partners to really get us into those outlets. because I think that builds so much customer trust, especially for a younger brand, that having that validation is just really, really impactful for it. And so I'd say press is the first thing that we've seen really be a huge driver in impact. And then, I mean, obviously there are digital ads. We can't gift that much when it comes to influencer because our products are so large and expensive.

53:48I would say one thing that has been impactful for us over the last two years, we had a showroom in Williamsburg in New York. And we drove sales through the showroom, but we also saw a halo effect throughout the rest of New York and Brooklyn, specifically from the store. And so one thing that we're now thinking more heavily about is what's our retail strategy going into the rest of the year because we closed that showroom because we wanted to diversify. We saw that lift throughout Brooklyn and that halo effect, but we want to replicate that in other geographies. phase and you know we don't have the budget to open permanent retail stores nationwide yet but i think that people want to touch and feel people want to know that you're a real brand real people and even if it's not them who went to the store if they know someone who went to the store that's very validating for people and so right now our strategy is to do pop-ups in cities where we're seeing a lot of growth and traction for Sabai.

54:55Kara Goldin:That's awesome. Such a good idea. Well, Pentilla, thank you so much for coming on and chatting with us about everything that you're doing. And thank you for launching Sabai. Such a great, great company. I'm so excited to see you guys grow. And you mentioned that you have new categories coming out. So we all should be watching for that. And for everyone listening, if you have not checked out Sabai and explored their collections, definitely follow along and purchase for sure. Such an incredible line. They've done such an amazing, amazing job. So thank you again. And thanks everyone for listening.

55:43Kara Goldin:We'll have all the info in the show notes as well, but until next time on the Kara Golden Show. Thanks, Kara. Thank you. Thanks again for listening to The Kara Golden Show. If you would, please give us a review and feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit. And of course, feel free to subscribe so you don't miss a single episode of our podcast. Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms at Kara Golden. I would love to hear from you too, so feel free to DM me. And if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my Wall Street Journal bestselling book, Undaunted, where I share more about my journey, including founding and building, Hint.

56:31Kara Goldin:We are here every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Thanks for listening and goodbye for now. This episode of the Kara Golden Show is brought to you by LinkedIn Hiring Pro. Hi, Kara here. For small businesses, every hire matters, but so does your time. I felt that pressure firsthand. You know, a bad hire isn't just frustrating, it's expensive in time, money, and team morale. And yet hiring the right person can feel like a full-time job on top of everything else you're already doing. Sifting through applications, trying to spot the real standouts, second-guessing decisions, it can get overwhelming fast.

57:15Kara Goldin:That's why having a way to save time without sacrificing quality isn't just nice to have, it's critical. Luckily, LinkedIn Hiring Pro is built for that reality. It's your hiring partner designed to help you hire with confidence by surfacing only the right candidates without turning hiring into another full-time job. Posting a job isn't always the hard part. It's finding, connecting with, and screening the right candidates. Hiring Pro streamlines the entire process from drafting your job to shortlisting candidates and conducting AI-powered interviews for initial screenings. Their updated conversational interface lets you describe what you need in plain language, no recruiter jargon needed.

58:00Kara Goldin:Nearly 60 % of hires find a candidate to interview within a week. With Hiring Pro, you spend less time searching and more time connecting with the right talent. Join the 2.7 million small businesses using LinkedIn to hire. Get started by posting your job for free at linkedin.com slash Kara Golden. Terms and conditions apply. This episode of the Kara Golden Show is brought to you by Pendulum. I think we've all had those days where we eat a meal, feel satisfied, and then not long after, we're wondering, what's in the pantry. That's what made me curious about Pendulum Metabolic Daily. Pendulum Metabolic Daily is a science-backed probiotic designed to support your body's natural GLP-1 response, helping you feel fuller longer, experience fewer cravings, and stay on track with your health goals.

58:55Kara Goldin:It's just one capsule a day with food. Some customers report noticing fewer cravings and more energy in as little as a week, though individual results can vary. What also caught my attention is that it was developed by PhD scientists from Harvard, Berkeley, and Stanford. It's the number one GI doctor-recommended Akramansha probiotic and is backed by clinical research. Right now, podcast listeners can get an exclusive 20 % off their first order at PendulumLife.com slash Kara Golden. That's PendulumLife.com slash Kara Golden for an extra 20 % off your first order. Again, that's PendulumLife.com slash Kara Golden and get 20 % off today.

59:42Kara Goldin:This message is a paid partnership with AT &T Business. Hey, everyone, Kara here. let's get real about those early days of building a business. Not the highlight reel, the actual day-to-day, the friction, trying to manage everything across time zones, across teams, across locations, and realizing how much depends on staying connected. I remember those days at Hint, a retailer call, an order, a decision, all of it. And you realize quickly, connection isn't a nice-to-have, it's the lifeblood of your business. As a founder, you don't want to think about your connectivity. You just need it to work every time.

1:00:27Kara Goldin:That's why AT &T Business matters. AT &T Business is the reliable provider for small business owners. And when you have that kind of reliability behind you, you can focus on what actually moves your business forward. Powered by AT &T Business. Built to work.

1:00:49Kara Goldin:That's ptt.com.