888 Kevin Gianni: Co-founder & CEO of Annmarie Skin Care & Salt + Blue

0:00Kara Goldin:I am unwilling to give up, but I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be. You just want to make sure you will get knocked down, but just make sure you don't get knocked out. So your only choice should be, go focus on what you can control. Hi everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world's greatest leaders. We'll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can't wait to get started. Let's go. This episode of the Kara Golden Show is brought to you by LinkedIn Hiring Pro.

0:47Kara Goldin:Hi, Kara here. For small businesses, every hire matters, but so does your time. I felt that pressure firsthand. You know, a bad hire isn't just frustrating, it's expensive in time, money, and team morale. And yet hiring the right person can feel like a full-time job on top of everything else you're already doing. Sifting through applications, trying to spot the real standouts, second-guessing decisions, it can get overwhelming fast. That's why having a way to save time without sacrificing quality isn't just nice to have, it's critical. Luckily, LinkedIn Hiring Pro is built for that reality. It's your hiring partner designed to help you hire with confidence by surfacing only the right candidates without turning hiring into another full-time job.

1:39Kara Goldin:Posting a job isn't always the hard part. It's finding, connecting with, and screening the right candidates. Hiring Pro streamlines the entire process from drafting your job to shortlisting candidates and conducting AI-powered interviews for initial screenings. Their updated conversational interface lets you describe what you need in plain language, no recruiter jargon needed. Nearly 60 % of hires find a candidate to interview within a week. With Hiring Pro, you spend less time searching and more time connecting with the right talent. Join the 2.7 million small businesses using LinkedIn to hire.

2:19Kara Goldin:Get started by posting your job for free at linkedin.com slash Kara Golden. Terms and conditions apply. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Kara Golden Show. What does it take to build a brand that lasts not just through rapid growth, but through every stage that comes after? Today's guest is Kevin Gianni, co-founder of Anne Marie Skincare. And I love this company, its story, and Kevin's journey. Anne Marie wasn't built by chasing beauty trends or the latest ingredients. It was built on a belief that consumers deserved excellent skincare made with ingredients they could actually trust and a company willing to grow without compromising that mission.

3:04Kara Goldin:Over the past 17 years, Kevin has led Anne-Marie Skincare through every stage of entrepreneurship, from scrappy beginnings to hyper growth to scaling teams, what he now calls lean growth. So very, very, very cool to have him here. And we're also going to get a glimpse into his other brand that is killing it called Salt & Blue, which is a clean mineral sunscreen company. So I cannot wait to learn a lot more about that company as well. So Kevin Gianni, welcome to the Cara Golden Show. So excited you're here. I'm so excited to talk to you. Very, very excited. So, okay. So Kevin, for listeners who are just discovering Anne-Marie, or maybe they know the brand, but don't know what it represents and kind of the, really what it is, how do you describe the company and maybe what makes it different and unique from other skincare companies out there.

4:05Yeah, I think you said it in the intro when you said uncompromising. That's really what we're based on. Our tagline, wild and beautiful, kind of encompasses what we want to do in the world. We want to be wild. We want to be beautiful. We want to express ourselves in a way that's unique and special. And on the business side, what that really means to us is that we want to do hard things. We want to challenge ourselves to do things that are different than the rest of the crowd. And we've built our brand on really sticking to our principles as hard as that is. It's so easy to call a contract manufacturer and ask them to put some goop into a bottle.

4:50It's like, it's the easiest thing in the world, particularly now with AI, you can have your AI formulate the thing and you can send it right off there and you can just place your minimum order and you can start to sell online. We've never compromised with that. We have always done it the way that we felt was the best way possible. And so that's kind of what we, I would say, differentiates ourselves nowadays in a world where clean beauty is kind of greenwashed across the board.

5:16Kara Goldin:This episode of The Kara Golden Show is brought to you by Rula. I've always believed that investing in yourself is one of the best investments you'll ever make. But I also think a lot of us know when we could use some support and still find reasons to put it off. Maybe it feels too expensive. Maybe you don't know where to start. Or maybe finding the right person just feels like one more thing on your list. That's what I like about Rula. They make finding quality mental health care much simpler. Rula accepts over 120 insurance plans nationwide and sessions cost an average of just$15 with insurance.

5:53Kara Goldin:They even show you a personalized cost estimate upfront so you know what to expect before you begin. What really stands out to me is that Rula helps you find a therapist based on your specific needs. Their providers specialize across more than 90 conditions and life's major stressors so you can look for someone who feels right for you, not simply settle because the process feels overwhelming. And getting started can actually be pretty simple. You can sign up and find a therapist in as little as five minutes with appointments available as soon as the next day. RULA also focuses on the quality of care with 93 % of patients reporting symptom improvement.

6:33Kara Goldin:Sometimes the hardest part is simply taking that first step. RULA makes that step a lot easier. If you're ready to stop talking yourself out of finding care and making progress, then head to Rula.com. That's R-U-L-A.com and take the first step. This episode of the Kara Golden Show is brought to you by Chime. I love companies that look at something we've all accepted for years and ask, why are we still doing it this way? Banking is a perfect example. Chime took a fresh look at the traditional banking experience, the fees, the friction, the outdated rules, and built something designed to be simpler and more rewarding.

7:15Kara Goldin:It's a more modern way to manage your money with fewer unnecessary barriers getting in the way. Chime offers the most rewarding, fee-free banking with no overdraft fees, no monthly fees, and no minimum balance fees. What I really like is that you get 5 % cash back on your Chime card in a category of your choice, like gas or groceries, while building credit through regular everyday spending with no credit check. You can also grow your money faster with a savings rate that's nine times the national average. And if you're ever in a pinch, SpotMe lets you overdraft up to$200 fee-free. Join the millions who are already banking fee-free with America's number one choice for banking.

8:02Kara Goldin:Head to Chime.com slash Kara Golden. That is Chime.com slash Kara Golden. Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com slash disclosures for details. This message is a paid partnership with AT &T Business. Hey everyone, Kara here. Let's get real about those early days of building a business. Not the highlight reel, the actual day-to-day, the friction, trying to manage everything across time zones, across teams, across locations, and realizing how much depends on staying connected.

8:47Kara Goldin:I remember those days at Hint, a retailer call, an order, a decision, all of it. And you realize quickly, connection isn't a nice to have, it's the lifeblood of your business. As a founder, you don't want to think about your connectivity. You just need it to work every time. That's why AT &T Business matters. AT &T Business is the reliable provider for small business owners. And when you have that kind of reliability behind you, you can focus on what actually moves your business forward. Powered by AT &T Business. Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com. Who is Anne-Marie or how did you come up with the name for the brand?

9:37Anne-Marie is my wife. We were traveling around in an RV. We were interviewing health experts, natural health experts for YouTube. We were doing YouTube videos back then. And we had sourced numerous natural health products from different places. We had gone to Costa Rica to get Ceylon cinnamon. We had gone to Peru to get Muna, which is a mountain mint that they make tea with. And our audience became increasingly more interested in asking us about skincare. and we realized that we just didn't have an option to share with them. And so we started to research a product to partner with. And when it came down to it, nothing was up to our standards.

10:22And so we had to sit down and say, well, we can do two things. We can tell them nothing is available or we can create it ourselves. And that's what we did.

10:31Kara Goldin:Did you have experience in the beauty industry or how did this all begin? No, we had no experience in the beauty industry. only the natural health industry. So we knew everything about clean food. We knew everything about, you know, how pharmaceutical industry might be harming you with certain things. We knew just all of that. We just hadn't gone into the beauty industry. And when we got into the beauty industry, we realized that it was very much like some of these other industries where, you know, there's ingredients and products that you don't want. There's regulation issues where, you know, things aren't being regulated properly.

11:07I mean, if you consider the difference between the FDA in the US versus the EU regulations in terms of skincare, it's insane. There's so many more banned ingredients in the UK, in the EU that we're just openly putting in products, not us, but other companies are openly putting in products. And it's tough. It's tough to deal with. And, you know, it's tough to think about when it comes down to it. And as a consumer, it's even more difficult because natural doesn't mean natural anymore. I think you're probably familiar with that. If it's natural on a label, I don't know. I wouldn't trust it.

11:45Kara Goldin:This episode of The Kara Golden Show is brought to you by Zazzle. I recently bought the most beautiful custom wall canvas on Zazzle featuring the lyrics from my daughter's favorite song. I couldn't wait to give it to her. And boy, was she surprised and happy when she opened it. That's what I love about personalized gifts and about Zazzle. The things I create feel personal, thoughtful, and completely one of a kind. It's not just another gift. It's something that means something to the person receiving it. And that's what makes Zazzle so much fun for me. I can take an idea, a memory, or something I know someone loves and turn it into a gift that feels like it was made just for them because it was.

12:26Kara Goldin:I was able to pick a design, personalize it, and create something that felt totally unique. They're the kind of thing that makes a great gift, but I also love having them at home when people come over and the whole process was incredibly easy. That's what I love about Zazzle. You can take an idea and make it your own from custom glassware and invitations to gifts, holiday cards, branded merchandise, business materials, and so much more. And you definitely don't need to be a designer. Zazzle gives you the tools and templates to make it easy. Go to Zazzle.com today and start creating something that is uniquely yours.

13:05Kara Goldin:Right now, save 25 % on your first order at Zazzle.com. That's 25 % savings on your first order at Zazzle.com. Go make something Z-amazing. Zazzle.com. As summer winds down, I always find myself wanting to get back into a routine, especially with what I'm eating. But I'm not interested in giving up the foods, I actually love to do it. That's why I personally love Hero Bread. It's become such an easy swap in my house because it actually tastes like the real thing. The bread is soft and fluffy, the bagels are satisfying, and you'd never guess Hero products have zero to five grams of net carbs, zero grams of sugar, and 11 to 32 grams of fiber per serving.

13:55Kara Goldin:I use the sliced bread for quick lunches, tortillas for veggie packed wraps, and I love Hero noodles for an easy family dinner. It makes getting back into a routine feel a lot less like giving up. And Hero keeps expanding beyond bread with buns, bagels, tortillas, noodles, and even new drops like Hero shortbread biscuits and a twist of Auntie Anne's Hero bread pretzel bites. No compromises, just flavor and smarter swaps that actually fit into real life. Hero Bride is offering 10 % off your order. Go to hero.co and use code Kara Golden at checkout. That's Kara Golden at H-E-R-O dot C-O. When you were getting started, how many SKUs did you launch with and how has that changed over time?

14:48Oh man, it's been quite an arc. We launched with two SKUs. and we built fairly fast in terms of the number of SKUs that we have. We have 35 now. And when I look at the way that direct-to-consumer marketing and direct-to-consumer world is now, you know, I would really caution against that. I mean, I think the way that things are working now is one SKU with one promise, like direct funnel, go for it. And that to me seems like a much more appropriate way to do it in our time now. But again, we launched 17 years ago. So having a brand with a whole bunch of different products that do a whole bunch of things was okay back then.

15:32And it's still fine. But I think to get a bigger reach, I mean, if we're talking to entrepreneurs out there or people who are creating products, like having one particular product with one particular message, solving one problem, boom, go. and really just putting all your resources and revenue into that is a better way to do it today.

15:51Kara Goldin:I've heard a few of your interviews, you talk about lean growth. So is that where that's leading you, I guess, in direct to consumer, you're much more interested in being not only growing lean growth, but also the SKU mix as well and sort of figuring out exactly what to focus on? For sure. I mean, lean, we've done all the things. We've grown really fast. We've hired a bunch of people to scale. We've had various success in scaling over the time. We've gone flat. You know, all the things that, you know, a more mature business has done. And what we really kind of have come to is that just like our products, we really just want natural organic growth as well.

16:36And that means less people. That means just less in our ecosystem so that we can really focus on the things that mean the most to us, which is, again, high quality product, high quality messaging, high quality customer relationships, reaching out to people, to our customers, doing live events with our customers just so they can in an AI world so they can still feel real human connection. Because when it comes down to it, you know, I'm much more happy buying a product from someone that I like or seen on a podcast or met in person than I am just a nameless, faceless brand that, you know, maybe has an ethos.

17:17but you know it's it's so much harder to determine what actually is real nowadays that you know it's better to go that route and to go back to even before all the ai and before all the information and like how did we make relationships before we met them we've met people face to face we talked to them we learned we trusted them and then we purchased their products you've described the

17:40Kara Goldin:company as going through four different seasons when you think back on those seasons is there one season that taught you the most about leading a company? Oh, for sure. The scaling and then looking at the balance sheet and the P &L and seeing that you weren't making any profit. That's a real sit down and talk to the wife kind of moment where you're just like, oh man, what are we even doing this for? You know what I mean? And of course, we had the principles of, you know, we're doing this to, to change the industry. And that's actually what kind of the through line that kind of kept us going. But I mean, scaling for scale sake and, and, you know, to maybe get a laurel or, you know, in a magazine or get an interview or something like that, just, it, it wasn't what I thought it was, you know, you get, you get, I think, Alan Watts says, you know, a lot of people live life, they climb up the ladder and then they get to the top and they realize it's not the place they wanted to go to.

18:46And that was exactly what happened to us for sure.

18:50Kara Goldin:That's absolutely, it resonates with me for sure. So was there ever a moment when you thought this company, Anne-Marie, is just not going to make it? I mean, you touched on the P &L and you're like, what are we doing here? What got you through that, I guess, those really challenging times? Really a good mentor. So one of our mentors was an early investor in the company, Reed Tracy. He's the CEO of Hay House. And he was an accountant before, and he taught me the ins and outs of a balance sheet and a P &L. And I didn't know any of that. I'd never been in a finance position before. I'd never had to even look at finances.

19:37I was always like, well, you know, I think that if there's some money here, we can move it here, we can kind of do this. And he really helped me tighten finances around everything, manufacturing, around marketing and all this. And it was really what saved the company, I swear to you. Like, if it wasn't for Reed, we would be doing something else.

20:00Kara Goldin:Was there one lesson that he shared with you that you, like, just on the fly, when you're thinking back on those conversations that it was just kind of like, wow, that was, that was a big thought that's going to stick with me. I mean, I, I think it was more so just in the, just the question of like, you know, just questioning what was on the sheet and then me like realizing that I didn't know. And, and it really was a reminder that, that there's always going to be questions behind the question and that I need to know them before he comes to me with the first question, because it's not the question that he is getting to.

20:42There's multiple ones. And, you know, if you feel better as a human in communication, when you actually can answer the questions after the first one, you know, and so just being more prepared is really the, is I guess what I'm trying to say here.

20:55Kara Goldin:You've continued to grow, Anne-Marie, over time, is there one or two SKUs that are kind of the runaway, like, everyone thanks you for producing this product, and it's so great. And, you know, I love the love. I always tell friends of mine that are not founders, I'm like, you should write to these founders. Like, you have no idea how much the love letters mean. And they can come in a DM or customer service phone call or whatever, but they mean a lot. Yeah. I mean, the two SKUs that have always performed well is our anti-aging serum and anti-aging oil. And they've done well since the beginning. And they're just a great mix of nutritive herbs, great oils, just products that have never changed from the beginning, like never, never changed, always, always so well.

21:53Kara Goldin:I love both of those products a ton. And I mean, I remember trying them, you know, a while ago. Were they some of your original products? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, they were they were in the first five mix of five SKUs. It's wild that we didn't go with those SKUs first. We went with a mask and we went with a cleanser. And it's just wild that we didn't go with those first because it seems like now it's pretty obvious that they would sell well. But, you know, you know what I mean? Like we were new. We were green. We were just trying to, you know, launch fast and do something cool. And that's how we did it.

22:29Kara Goldin:So you built Anne-Marie largely online. Would you do that today if you were to launch a company? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's I didn't know anything about wholesale marketing. I had no idea. And I always felt that like it's so complicated because if you're a store owner or if you're a buyer in a store, like everyone's coming to you. every like all the different brands are coming to you every single one and it just to me it seemed like that was not a an easy path to success I mean you know it's funny I actually I our team knows you very well because I tell a story that you told on stage once about bringing uh an entire like case or crate of hint water to Whole Foods without a PO and saying that we have your order here.

23:19And so, I mean, like that's, that's hard to do. You know what I mean? And I, and I tell them that when I'm just like, Hey, we've got to be persistent. We've got to do this. And I tell that story often that you can, you can check for them and they'll, they'll tell you. But, um, but I always felt that it was a crowded space to do stores. I think now actually maybe it's coming back in a way where stores might be a good way, because if you look at, you know, cost per acquisition and you look at a lot of things that are happening now, I think prices are going up to advertise, going back to stores might actually be, you know, kind of a nice way to do it.

23:51We're doing it with, with the other, with Salt and Blue now. And so, but I, I, I would direct to consumer all the time, every day for us, for me, not, not for everyone, but for me.

24:02Kara Goldin:Yeah. We've found too, that even as we grew our direct to consumer business, the, the omni-channel approach, I mean, it's, it gets tricky because it's the, uh, you know, of the stores, for example, that experience is something where maybe the consumer is just seeing it. Maybe they're not purchasing it there, but it's like it's a billboard, right? So that for us was always something that we continued to want to grow so long as there weren't huge slotting dollars or something like that, which happens as you get bigger, as you get more established. And that's the biggest challenge, not with every industry, but and with every retail but certainly in the beverage and in the grocery business for sure.

24:48My fear also on the stores is that they could pull you at any time. So, I mean, you could build up and ramp and then suddenly, boom, just, you know, rug pulled out from underneath you. And for me, that's too much risk to accept at any given time, particularly with employees and all that.

25:05Kara Goldin:Yeah. I mean, it's the same risk if you're working through an Amazon or some other retailer online. For sure. But having said that, I mean, we've had a few people on from different categories who have dealt with Amazon and, you know, other large retailers that have an online presence that they work through. And, you know, they've got an audience, right? And so that's also a billboard, right? That's how do you get to their audience? And so it's super, super interesting. So you have been a founder for some time. What's something founders spend way too much time worrying about that consumers, you think, couldn't care less about?